HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-07-10 TranscriptionJuly 10, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page I
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Fruin, Bentley, Dilkes, Karr, Davidson, Moran, O'Malley, Yapp,
Knoche, O'Brien, Miklo, Long, Rummels, Andrew
Others Present: None
Council Appointments (Item 15):
Hayek/ Welcome, everyone! Okay, let's try to get through these (both talking). Yeah! We have
a little more time because we don't have to reconfigure everything so that's... that's
helpful.
Mims/ That's true!
Hayek/ Uh, first item is Council appointments. We have, uh, couple of appointments for the
Housing and Community Development Commission, and one I think for PCRB. Let's go
to, uh, the ... HCDC. There are two openings ... no, three openings and two, uh,
applicants, uh, Andy Chappell and Rachel Zimmerman Smith who are presently on the
commission (several talking). They're excellent, I think.
Mims/ Very good!
Hayek/ Do we have consensus on that? (several responding) Okay.
Champion/ And this is Rachel's... she's only been on one term?
Hayek/ Yeah. Uh, and then PCRB, we have two applicants but we have a, uh, gender balance
requirement, um, and so of the two one is, uh, a female. She's... Melissa Jensen, she's on
PCRB now.
Dobyns/ So Mike has to wait? Is that...
Hayek/ So Mike has to wait until August.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Mims/ Okay.
Hayek/ Is there a consensus for, uh, reappointing Ms. Jensen? (several responding) Okay. All
right. Knocks that out.
Planning & Zoning Items:
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Hayek/ Next item is questions from Council regarding P &Z items; um, as you'll note from the
agenda, we can ask questions during the work session about 4c, 4d ... f and g ... if you have
any. C and d are, uh, just setting public hearings. F, we've gone over before. That's the,
um, the second consideration on the right -of -way vacation, or air ... air rights, rather. Um,
and then, uh, g has to do with, uh, the final plat of Windsor West, Part 2. Any questions
regarding those? Okay, we'll move on. Um, any questions from the Council regarding
other agenda items?
Other Agenda Items:
ITEM 7. INSTITUTING PROCEEDINGS TO TAKE ADDITIONAL ACTION FOR
THE AUTHORIZATION AND ISSUANCE OF NOT TO EXCEED
$2,800,000 TAXABLE GENERAL OBLIGATION URBAN RENEWAL
BONDS, SERIES 2012.
ITEM 8. INSTITUTING PROCEEDINGS TO TAKE ADDITIONAL ACTION FOR
THE ISSUANCE OF NOT TO EXCEED $3,100,000 TAXABLE URBAN
RENEWAL REVENUE BONDS, SERIES 2012.
Throgmorton/ I ... I'm curious about the sequencing with which we'll discuss the, um ... um, our
alternatives with regard to the TIF funding topic. Um... it wasn't entirely clear to me
whether there was any specific sequence, uh, required. I ... I mean, the way ... the way we
have the agenda set up right now is that we'll hold a public hearing, then consider
whether to abandon the GO bonding mechanism, and then consider whether to schedule a
special election. So ... tell ... tell me what...
Dilkes/ Well, obviously you can't do both those things. So, I am ... you can consider both those
motions in whatever order they're raised and you chose to raise them. For instance,
um ... there could be a motion for a special election that could be seconded and die. Then
there could be a motion for, um, to abandon the proceedings, or there could be an initial
motion made to abandon the proceedings and it would pass. I mean, there's no ... you all
can decide among yourselves how you're going to discuss those things, but there's no...
Throgmorton/ Which raises another question for me, um, maybe there's some material I don't
know about, but have we received a valid petition with the sufficient number of
signatures?
Karr/ You have, um ... handouts this evening, uh, the petition was ... was brought in, uh, late this
afternoon and it is valid.
Throgmorton/ Roughly how many signatures?
Karr/ There were 862 filed, of which, um, over the required 700 were.
Throgmorton/ Okay ... okay. I would suggest that we consider, um, make a motion, or have
somebody make a motion, to, uh, schedule a special election. And... and then consider
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whether we want to do that or not. And if we chose to schedule a special election, then
we would, um, then the, uh, the GO bonding mechanism would have to be ... we'd have to
vote not to pursue that, right, because it would be left to the special, uh, to the voters in
the special election.
Dilkes/ Now that we've got a petition, you can do one of two things with the general, uh,
obligation debt. You can schedule it for special election or you can abandon it.
Throgmorton/ Right, so I ... I'm suggesting that we consider scheduling a special election, decide
what we want to do on that, and then...
Champion/ Well, we'll have to (several talking)
Dilkes/ That's up to you all how you chose to proceed.
Hayek/ Could ... is, so the way this is structured is 7 was the GO.
Dilkes/ Yep!
Hayek/ And 8 is the revenue. When we get to 7, after we hold the public hearing, and with
confirmation that the signatures are there, could we entertain a motion to ... to not take
any action under 7 and just proceed to 8? Which would be ... and ... and then hold a public
hearing and a vote on ... on revenue?
Throgmorton/ Oh, I don't understand that.
Dilkes/ Why would you do that?
Hayek/ Just ... to, I mean, to ... to ... to, uh ... to get us (several talking)
Mims/ ...is a resolution to abandon the issuance?
Dilkes/ Right.
Hayek/ Okay. As long as it's issuance and not ... project.
Mims/ Right.
Dilkes/ No! Yeah, it's to abandon the issuance.
Mims/ Right.
Dilkes/ You ... I think you want to act on the GO, either by setting it for election or abandoning it.
And then you move to the revenue bonds.
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Dobyns/ But I don't want to abandon the GO, unless I know that ... well, from my part, that
Council is willing to go forward with revenue bonds.
Dilkes/ Once a petition is valid and it's filed you have no option to authorize issuance of GO
debt. You can ... you must either abandon the authorization of GO debt, i.e., you're done;
or set it for special election.
Dobyns/ I ... rewording it I would want to abandon it, I mean, but first I want to know if the
Council is interested in going forth with revenue bonds. (several talking) I mean, if we
weren't comfortable with revenue bonds...
Champion/ You won't be ... I don't think that's a ... I don't think it's the issue. I think the issue
will be are we going to put it to a public ballot.
Mims/ No, I hear what Rick is saying. Rick is saying, he doesn't want ... he doesn't want to
abandon the issuance of the GO bonds ... and move on to #8 and then have the revenue
bonds fail. (several talking) Because then ... then we've got no alternative... with the
proj ect.
Dobyns/ I at least want some bonding (several talking)
Mims/ So let's talk about where we're at now.
Hayek/ We ... we could either do that gut chet ... check now, or, uh, after the public hearing on
... on... on item 7, GO.
Dobyns/ It's just the way that they were ordered in the agenda. I mean...
Champion/ Well they had to be.
Mims/ But they had to be that way. I mean...
Dilkes/ Yeah, because if you hadn't ... if you hadn't gotten a petition, you clearly would have
wanted to authorize the GO bonds, not the revenue. (noise on mic)
Hayek/ Can you update us on...
Markus/ Yeah, we have some, uh ... um, additional information at least regarding the TIF revenue
bonds. One of the things that, um, moving from ... well, just comparing the two
obviously, um, there's a cost differential between the GO bonds and the TIF revenue
bonds, and so in thinking about ... about that, um, I thought one of the things, um, to try
and equalize the two is to try and figure out how we would go about doing that. How
would you equalize the two so that the impact ultimately to the taxpayer and the impact
on the taxpayer comes about ... about when the issue gets retired and when the, um, a full
rolled up value then returns to all of the benefitting taxing jurisdictions. So we went to,
uh, Mr. Moen and suggested the concept of them, uh, picking up, the developer picking
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up, uh, the present value of the differential. And that turns out to be about $170,000.
And of course there's presumptions made that ... that you can invest that then and that that
would offset the differential. So ... uh, if Kevin here? Yeah, uh, Kevin has, uh, some
charts ... did you bring those along? We...
Karr/ They're in the handouts.
Markus/ Thank you! So they're in your packet of handouts and it shows you ... let's just walk
through those, uh, Kevin, you can lead the walk through of these. To show you the
differential, at least financially, so at least the financial element of the, uh, decision as to
one financing mechanism or the other is poten... is eliminated as a part of the discussion.
So, Kevin, you want to...
O'Malley/ Yes! Marian, did you do a color copy?
Hayek/ Yes!
O'Malley/ Okay. So, the ... the, I assume you're all looking at this ... one with the...
Hayek/ Correct!
O'Malley/ ...the magenta and the green (several talking). Okay, on the left side of that is the
debt service schedule for the TIF revenue bonds. Um, both of these issues are dated
August 1St for a sale date. And, the revenue bonds, my assumption — there's several
assumptions, and my assumption is that they're going to, uh, the total interest costs will
be around 3.775% over the 20 -year life. On the right -hand side is the GO taxable bonds.
Those are about 50 basis points less. So that's 3.26, and if you follow the coupon, the
third column in each, uh ... uh, side, you'll notice that there's a 50 -point basis spread on
the TIF revenue bonds versus the taxable GOs. Uh, so that's... so... so there's more...
it's ... the market looks at...at the revenue bonds less, uh, less favorably than the GO
bonds because of the full taxing nature of the GO bonds. So taking that into account, I
asked, uh, our financial advisor to do a present value. Tom and I talked about this and we
suggested this was a good way to try and even it up. And if...if you look at the ... the
colored columns, that's ... those are the present value basis on TIF revenue bonds and the
present value on the GO, and it comes to the net, or it comes to that box in the middle of
$170,000. So, presumably if we got the $170,000, and invested it today to pay off in the
20 years, we would end up being equal. Uh, now, is there any question about how these
columns, how they relate. They're... they're showing an annual debt service each year.
The rows are annual debt service each year and um. ... the coupons and the date they're
paid. These are very similar to what you see in a regular GO issue.
Payne/ How come the principle is $10,000 difference?
O'Malley/ Uh, because ... in ... in the, um, TIF revenue bonds, one of the creditor enhancements
that's required is that we have to have a one -year bond in interest reserve. So we have to
finance that upfront and ... if you look (both talking)
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Markus/ ...revenue bonds require a coverage factor and that's...
O'Malley/ They have more covenants for credit enhancement, and if you look down at the year
2031, if it's in red, that actually is that one -year bonded interest being deducted and
paying off the last year. But ... because you have to purchase it on top, you have to pay
interest for it all the way out. Uh, I know there's a lot of fine print, but generally the idea
is to find out what the present value is in those two columns. Now I had guessed before I
had went to the financial advisor. I had guessed there was about $200,000 based on my
initial look at it. So I ... I felt pretty good when I saw the $170,000. Any questions?
Hayek/ Tom, so the bottom line again on ... on this?
Markus/ Well ... to me, you know, one of the elements that I would think the Council would be
concerned about is the financial difference, and so what this does is it neutralizes the
difference between the two issues from a financial standpoint. That was the attempt in
this regard. The other thing I'd point out, of course, is that, um, there's also a cost to a
GO. Um, you know, you're going to have an election even if it's during the general
election; uh, Marian and I had a discussion about that and while, uh, Marian doesn't have
any finite numbers of that, you ... you're talking about, you know, you're talking
substantial, uh, dollars to do that. I'll claim the estimate is somewhere between $35 and
$40,000 and not put it on Marian but ... so there's a substantial cost of...of going that
route.
Champion/ There's also the cost of other people's time in trying to educate people, and even
though you can't promote the passage of it, you can educate people about it. So that's
another cost that would not be added in ordinarily.
Markus/ Yeah, and I guess from my standpoint, I tried to eliminate, you know, something that
was within our control to eliminate, and that was the financial aspect.
Champion/ Good for you!
Markus/ You still have to deal with the political aspects of it.
Throgmorton/ It ... it seems to me...
Markus/ Left that one for you!
Throgmorton/ Seems to me very clear that, uh, what ... what course of action the Council wants to
take and it ... it's the TIF bond, uh, route. Uh, we're going to have to abandon the GO
bonds, but we have to respond to the petition too. It seems to me we ought to respond to
the petition first, because the petition comes from almost a thousand members of...of the
public of, uh, of eligible voters of Iowa City, and we have a responsibility to say to them,
why we do not want to schedule a public, uh, a special election as they have requested,
that at least that group of people has requested. And then, I mean, it's clear how the
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Council wants to proceed, and then we should proceed, but if... if we vote to, uh, abandon
the GO bond first, then that ... that makes the, uh, the special election moot, does it not?
Hayek/ But we could ... we could have that discussion, um, whether we're discussing a resolution
(both talking)
Throgmorton/ But the action would have already been taken!
Hayek/ No. There wouldn't be any action until there's a vote on a ... let ... let's say ... let's say that
after we close the public hearing on 7 there's a ... there's a motion, uh, in support of a
resolution to abandon the issuance of the GO. To... so that we could then proceed to the
next item and go the revenue route. We could have that discussion as a Council, as to
whether to abandon or call a special election, I mean, it would be part of the discussion
this Council could hold.
Champion/ Yeah.
Hayek/ Am I ... right in that assessment?
Dilkes/ Yeah, I think that's right, and...
Throgmorton/ ... simultaneously.
Dilkes/ Yeah, sure ... sure you can, cause one...
Mims/ You're discussing why you're supporting...
Dilkes/ Right, right.
Mims/ Regardless of which motion is made, we're going to sit here and discuss whether we
support the ... the motion that was made, uh, or whether we don't support it, and if we
don't support it then we probably support the other ones. So ... we're going to get that
same discussion either way.
Dilkes/ Right. Now, back to Rick's point cause I ... took me a while to key into this, but um...
(laughter) urn ... you could also, if you chose, and a lot of this is very political so this is
for you all to decide, but if you chose you could certainly... reverse the order of them, by
motion chose to consider 7 first.
Hayek/ 8 first! (several responding)
Dilkes/ I mean 8 first! (laughter)
Champion/ Well I don't think we should do that. I ... I think we ought to respond to the petition,
um ... and ... and that would, if we went to 8 first, we'd be totally ignoring the petition.
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Throgmorton/ Right.
Champion/ And ... and that doesn't seem right to me, even though...
Dobyns/ But by vote regarding the petition is contingent on what we decide.
Hayek/ If we took, uh, the temperature of the Council right now, would that...
Dobyns/ That would be helpful.
Hayek/ ...would that be enough for you?
Dobyns/ Yes!
Hayek/ And ... why don't we do that. What ... what is the sense of the Council, um, in terms of
how we approach this? (several talking)
Dilkes/ ...to what you hear at the public hearing, of course.
Hayek/ Subject to what we hear, that's a good point, but ... but, uh, right now, without the benefit
of that at least at this time, where's everyone?
Dobyns / While it was a good project couple of months ago, it was a 7 -0 vote, um ... and so it's
still a good project! And, um, irrespective of the added costs of revenue bonds. I think
that's unfortunate that that incremental cost has been applied, um, but it's the desire of
the community. Um, and so I would vote, uh, for, um ... revenue bonds.
Payne/ I would agree with Rick.
Dickens/ Same.
Champion/ Me too!
Mims/ I will too. I ... I don't think you can do economic development on public votes. I mean, I
think the public elects us as city council members to make a lot of decisions, to set
policy, and I think the timing and issues like that that go into economic development
projects do not make them, um, good choices to put out there for public votes. Uh, I
think Connie mentioned sometimes you get into things that are very detailed and time -
consuming and one will people take the time to educate themselves, and even if they do,
you know, that's great, and if they don't like it, that's up to them, but still, I think we've
made, uh, at least have started with that commitment with developers and I don't think
we can be always putting those kinds of things up to public vote. I think that's what the
public elects us (both talking)
Champion/ ...my favorite line about all this is, sometimes (mumbled) decisions that might make
some people unhappy. Maybe a lot of people unhappy. But I have to vote my conscious,
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which means in 20 years or 25 years this is a positive thing for Iowa City, even though
some people might not like it now, and that's what I based my decision on. I don't vote it
on now. I vote it on later. I mean, I base it on later. And I won't be running for re-
election anyway!
Payne/ I guess I think that ... some people just have a ... problem is a bad word, but they just have
issue with TIF to start with, and ... but we have to use it as an economic development tool.
Otherwise we're not going to be competitive with our neighboring communities, and this
...I think that whether you agree with the basic premise of a TIF or not, this is a ... a
method that we have to promote growth within our community. So, I ... I think it's ... it
was, like Rick said, it was good two or three weeks ago; it's still a good project today.
Throgmorton/ I ... I think these are all quite valid reasons for pursuing the revenue bond, uh,
pathway, but I do believe the first thing we should do is consider how we want t respond
to the, uh, to the petition, and... and discuss that. Everybody can articulate the (both
talking)
Dobyns/ I'm fine now, Jim, cause now I know how to respond to it.
Throgmorton/ There you go! (laughter) And ... and then we can move ahead.
Hayek/ Okay. Well, we will go over this again, uh ... no matter what the motion is, because it'll
be a discussing point for the Council, following the input we get at the public hearing.
Payne/ Can I ask one more question?
Hayek/ Yeah.
Payne/ Does ... does the petition, I mean, we don't have an actual copy of what it says at the top, I
mean, what does it ... are they asking us to put it to a public vote and that's what those
signatures are? It's not saying do what, you know ... do this or this or this. What the law
allows us to do, basically.
Dilkes/ It ... it asks that, it petitions against the issuance of general obligation bonds to support the
project.
Payne/ Okay. So it doesn't just say...
Throgmorton/ ...put it to a vote! Leave it to the electorate, right?
Hayek/ Okay. Um ... so I think we've answered those questions for now. Let's ... are there other
agenda items that people have questions regarding?
ITEM 2f(11) City Engineer: Competitive Quotation Results — Public Works Complex
Sanitary Sewer Improvement; Rochester Ground Storage Reservoir
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Rehabilitation; 2012 Summer Sidewalk Repair; FY2013 Curb Ramp
Improvements.
Payne/ I had one. Was on, um ... Item 2f(11), which is the sanitary... sanitary sewer improvement
proj ect.
Hayek/ Uh -huh.
Payne/ Urn ... I had a question on why, if we even know why, the Engineer's estimate was so far
different than the low bid. And did they leave something out or... it was like, you know,
20 or 30 -some thousand dollars.
Knoche/ It was ... it was, the estimate that was done was based on some of the Lower Muscatine
bids, cause we're ... we were concerned that ... that the bidding climate was going to be
different than what it has been in the past so in this case our ... our estimate was high.
Payne/ So the Engineer's estimate's actually high.
Knoche/ Exactly! We ended up being high based on, and I think part of it is just ... as good as the
construction year has been, people are starting to work themselves out of work, and so it
just ... makes it a little bit more competitive.
Payne/ We should re -bid Lower Muscatine...
Knoche / Which is good, exactly, yes! Yep! (laughter)
Payne/ Thank you!
ITEM 2e(1) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING ON JULY
31, 2012 ON PLANS, SPECIFICATIONS, FORM OF CONTRACT, AND
ESTIMATE OF COST FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE PUBLIC
WORKS FUEL FACILITY AND VEHICLE WASH SYSTEM PROJECT,
DIRECTING CITY CLERK TO PUBLISH NOTICE OF SAID HEARING,
AND DIRECTING THE CITY ENGINEER TO PLACE SAID PLANS ON
FILE FOR PUBLIC INSPECTION.
Karr/ I would also note that Item 2e(1), the setting of a public hearing for the, uh, fuel facility is
being, staff is asking to delete it from the Consent Calendar at this time, and they'll come
back at a different date.
Hayek/ Okay.
Karr/ So we'll just amend the Consent Calendar.
Hayek/ Okay.
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Payne/ Will we need to say that? Or will...
Karr/ The motion can. (several talking)
Payne/ Okay.
Hayek/ Other agenda, uh, questions? Okay. Uh, let's move on, and Tom, since ... it's 25 of. Do
we want to try to ... we can go for another... 10, maybe 15 minutes tops. Is there anything
we want to pull and do after the formal?
Markus/ (mumbled) and we had...
Hayek/ Cafe platform and then...
Markus/ Yeah, as long as the cafe folks are here, I think we should handle that and then we'll
take care of LOST afterwards.
Hayek/ Okay. Why don't we jump to that then.
Info re: Parking Spaces for Cafe/Platform:
Markus / And what we have is, uh, Mr. Mondonaro, uh, has presented a request to do an outdoor
cafe. I think we have some slides.
Karr/ It's IP5 that's in your, uh, packet. All the slides were there.
Markus/ All the slides are ... are in there, showing this idea of moving the, urn ... the outdoor cafe
into a parking space and the other slides that were presented to you were from, uh, where
I came from, uh, Birmingham, Michigan, and, urn ... I can tell you I'm already hearing the
angst of business from the downtown area, and it's like a refrain from my past (laughter).
I heard the same things (several talking) when we considered that, and our determination,
uh, like I think the determination is here, there are some streets, um, and ... and adjacent
sidewalks that are not sufficient to accommodate both pedestrian traffic and, um, a street -
side, uh, cafe — an outdoor cafe. So, urn ... we were approached, uh, where I came from
and ... and this whole idea of putting them out in a parking space came forward.
Eventually we developed standards and I think that's what we would have to do here as
well. I don't think you put `em everywhere! Um, I think there'd have to be a condition
where the sidewalk, uh, was too narrow, urn ... to allow `em on the sidewalk where, you
know, they're occurring. You certainly don't have that issue, of course, on the ped mall,
uh, but it's a concept that worked quite well, and I think Jim came about this, Mr.
Mondonaro came about this on his own without any knowledge that I had any experience
with this before.
Dobyns/ Tom, I had a question, I mean, I'm taking a look at this picture and if you're out in sort
of in the street in this corner table and um, you know, Michelle parks her SUV right next
to me there — that's a parking spot — I mean, did that really work in Birmingham?
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Markus/ Yes it did. In fact I will tell you that there was, uh, Maple Road, we had them located
on Maple Road and on Woodward, um, Old Woodward Avenue, uh, which were major
traffic roads, um, and this did not impair traffic. We did not have (knocks on wood) a
single incident where a ramp was run into! And, the strangest thing of all is, to me,
people found it absolutely desirable to sit out there and ... and uh, imbibe and enjoy
dinner.
Dobyns/ Even a little car exhaust (several talking)
Markus/ ...cars within, you know, feet of these and ... and you know when you have an
environment like we have here in Iowa, I think that people want to be outdoors, and so...
Champion/ Last week they wanted to be outdoors? (laughter)
Markus/ Well (laughter) Actually... actually what happened to us is we ended up moving the
borders of the season out so that, you know, we were getting these things located outside
even earlier and having them stay later because you know the climate seems to be
adjusting in that way, but people I think in the Midwest in particular if they can be
outside they want to be outside, and I think that's true with, you know, one of the
desirabilities of our downtown to begin with is people like to get out and walk around
and... and have the opportunity to shop. Now I think you have to limit, you know, you're
going to have to put limits on these things, where they can be. You can't have a whole
street filled with these things. Um, so that there has to be some criteria that would be
established (both talking)
Dickens/ ...how do you stop it if you have to say one on the one side and you have bars and
restaurants on the other side of the street that want to do the same thing, how do you
differentiate between the two whether you can have it, you can't?
Markus/ We didn't necessarily preclude `em from being directly across from each other, and the
other thing is we had standards so that they had to be removed by a certain time of the
year so snow removal is not an issue. We had design standards so that the gutter pan, uh,
was ... was protected so that, you know, it rains the water can continue to flow. Um, they
were, um, ADA- accessible. Um...it...it turned out to be a ... a real desirable feature. I
think what you're trying to do in a retail environment and an outdoor environment like
we have in downtown Iowa City is get people outdoors. It creates that energy. It makes
it more attractive. People want to be down there.
Dickens/ And how much...
Markus/ That's the experience you have right now (both talking)
Dickens/ ...loss of parking do you have to worry about, too?
Markus/ Well...
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Dickens/ That'd be a question.
Markus/ ... I ... I think that the ... I think, you know, in the grand scheme of things, and with the
controls that are in place, I don't think you're necessarily have to give up that much
parking overall, and I think ... one of the things we did is we assessed, and I'm sure Jim
knows this about our situation, uh, we assessed the full cost of what the expectation of
what parking revenues would be for that site, um...
Dickens/ For the six months or whatever period.
Markus/ For the, yeah, for the period of time that it was out of availability. And there's, you
know, there has to be some sort of, uh, remuneration back to the City to allow that to
occur, but again, I can tell you we're going to hear the same concerns, the same, you
know refrains about why we should or shouldn't do this, and ... it worked out beautifully,
and it continues to grow. Um, I saw pictures, uh, that we asked for from Birmingham.
These are things that have been added since I've been gone! And, um, so it ... you know,
the program didn't stop. It... it continues, and I think it's a very desirable program.
Dobyns/ When I take a look at it I'm thinking that the owner, and possibly adjacent owners,
would think that this feature would bring in more customers than the loss of parking
would scare away. And with that, has the Downtown, uh, group made any comments on
this? Have they looked at it?
Markus/ Geoff can comment on that.
Fruin/ Uh, I brought it up to the infrastructure committee and just kind of threw it out there as an
FYI. I didn't ask for a formal opinion, but uh, the ... the feedback from that group, and
that was a limited, maybe six or seven folks, was very positive. But that's not an official
position by any means from the group and I expect that, you know, the ... the coverage
that this discussion may generate will lead to discussions on their end.
Champion/ There's been a lot of talk about it, actually, and I've had several phone calls. Um...
I ... I can't quite picture it, but I'm not against it. And the interesting thing that people
who I'm getting phone calls from who object to it are people who already have outdoor
cafes. And I'm not getting the phone calls from the retailers that object to it! Including
my daughter! So .... and believe you me, I would know if she was against it (laughter)
and she is actually talking to other retailers in the area to encourage this kind of thing to
go on. So, um, although I can't picture it, I have no understanding of...I couldn't picture
it when they wanted to put `em in the middle of the ped mall either, but that worked out
beautifully. So I think we should look into options. My ... my one fear is that, I can't
remember what our, uh, stipulations are (mumbled) have a cafe, is it only restaurants that
can have outdoor cafes, or can bars? Restaurants! Okay! So that, I couldn't remem...
and I didn't want to go back and read the whole thing. But I think it's worth exploring.
I ... I really do!
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Throgmorton/ I agree with Connie. I think it's potentially a ... a, pretty exciting. I ... I think I see
the, uh, political complications associated with it. I do have one suggestion, and that is,
uh, get some YouTube videos from Birmingham, or some other places, so that people can
see what the interaction is on the street, as ... as if they were actually there. I think that'd
have a lot of, uh, credibility.
Hayek/ Let's do this. The hour's drawing, uh, short and I haven't checked with Legal on this,
but I ... my assumption is this particular issue I'll have to not participate in. My law
partner does some work for Jim Mondonaro and I don't know if that creates a conflict or
not. Um, that's why I've been quiet tonight thus far, but I think what this group should
decide is does ... does it want staff to look into this further? (several responding)
Mims/ I would say yes. I mean I ... first looked at it I wasn't too keen on it but then having seen
all the slides and how successful it's been other places, I'm certainly willing to look at it
in more depth.
Information Packets:
Hayek/ Okay. Okay, so then with the remaining time why don't we zero in on the Info Packets,
if anybody's got a question about that, let's ... let's take that up right now and then we'll
disband for the formal and take everything else up afterwards.
Champion/ Can we have a ten minute break in between?
Hayek/ What? Now and the formal?
Mims/ Yeah, you've got six minutes to do the Info Packets (laughter)
Champion/ Okay, great! (laughter) Thanks! I really appreciate it.
Hayek/ It's the least we can do, Connie! (laughter)
Champion/ Remember, I'm old!
Hayek/ So multiple Info Packets, urn ... start with June 14 ... June 14tH
Karr/ 21St
Hayek/ Okay, I'm looking at the ... I don't think that's...
Karr/ First is 28tH
Hayek/ And July 5th, yeah, I think that's indicated wrong on the ... on the agenda. I think the first
one is June 21St
Champion/ Right, right.
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Hayek/ Not ... not much on there.
Mims/ There wasn't.
Hayek/ Okay. Uh, and then let's go to the 28tH
Throgmorton/ I ... I noticed that the, uh, there's a full transcript of the PCRB's, uh, forum, uh, and
certainly hope that the ad hoc committee will have ample opportunity to read that.
Hayek/ Good point! Anything else on the June 280h? Okay. Let's go to the July 5th Info Packet.
Anything on that?
Karr/ You want to talk about scheduling or you want to wait until afterwards?
Hayek/ Let's just wait till afterwards.
Karr/ Okay.
Hayek/ Okay. Let's, uh, call good enough good enough, and uh, end the work session and we'll
come back in 15 minutes for the formal. Thanks a lot.
(work session reconvened after formal meeting)
Local Option Sales Tax (04):
(recording starts in mid - sentence)
Hayek/ ...local option sales tax.
O'Malley / Right. Um, as you know, I sent a memo out about a week and a half ago, explaining,
uh, lettin' you know about the time table for local option sales tax. Uh, discussion with
senior management, uh, we couldn't find any compelling case at the moment, but uh,
Tom kind of triggered my imagination as far as ... well, what ... what would make a good
case? And so I prepared a ... a spreadsheet that I think is in your packets. It's not as
colorful as the one done by our financial advisor (laughter) urn ... try and save a few
dollars there. It looks something like this. It says proforma on sales tax and position.
Markus/ Looks like this. (several talking)
Karr/ It's the last ... it's the last page of IP4 in your Info Packet. (several talking) It's in the
packet itself. It's the last page of IP4, right before IP5. (several talking) It's another
handout, but it's in there too. There's a handout before you tonight, a hard copy of it.
Dobyns/ Real paper!
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Karr/ Real paper in front of you.
Markus/ Real paper.
O'Malley / Anyway, I created this just to more or less drop a seed in your mind, but I will
ex ... explain the columns. The first, uh, ignoring the column before Iowa City, but the
first three columns are... is the actual, uh, sales tax that were received under the current
LOST, uh, program which has different rules than ... than the one going forward. And so
I picked the year that, uh, the, uh, State has available, and that was fiscal year 11, and that
had 741, uh, million dollars of sales in the county, and 1% sales tax would generate $7.4
million, and urn ... our, uh, that was all done under the current rules, only Iowa City gets
that cause we're the only one that voted in favor of it; not, uh, Coralville and North
Liberty. So we got the full $7.4 million. Now going forward everything changes. So if
we were to, uh, adopt... if it was a successful adoption, we had $18 million in the county
for fiscal 11, $18.9 million in the county, for sales tax revenue. Based on the new
formula, 75% of the population in the county and the total county population by the way
is about 130,000 and so we are ... uh, 67,000 so it took that ratio, and that came out to
$7,375,000 and the other interesting idea here is the ... the other 25% of the calculation is
based on property tax levies collected back in the 1980s (laughter and several
commenting). This ... this is state government for you! Now this is not us (laughter and
several talking) so ... they have ... they have...
Dickens/ Specific year in the 80s or just...
O'Malley/ Yes, 83, 4 and 5!
Hayek/ It was a good year! In several years! (several talking)
O'Malley/ Yeah there ... there could be. Uh, and so...
Markus/ Well when you hear our proposal somebody'll try to change it!
Dilkes/ It was changed for the current one.
O'Malley/ For the current one. We had lot of options for the current one. We don't have those
options for the ... the next one. And so that, uh, that far right column, that ... our
percentage of tax levies collected in the county was 43 %. So when you multiply that
43% times the 18.9 million, you come up with another $2 million, $2, 040,000. For a
total ... uh ... estimated lost revenue 9.4 million and so the subtr ... so the difference being
as it is currently, 7.4 versus 9.4 is roughly $2 million. What that tells me is that $2
million is not coming from Iowa Citians. So there might be a reason to do that. Selfish
reason! But I am not at this time recommending (several talking) compelling reason.
Markus/ Now this is really an important point here.
Mims/ Uh -huh.
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Markus/ We are getting $2 million more than what is generated here. Now one of the ... one of
the big reasons that you can use this for is property tax relief.
Champion/ Right!
Markus/ Okay? So if you took dollar for dollar, and used that for property tax relief, you could
reduce your ... did you get to that today? I know Rick was taking up some of your time at
the end of the day.
O'Malley/ (both talking) I was calculating roughly around 20 %.
Markus/ So you could reduce your property tax by 20%! So if your millages ... not, you don't
talk in millage, if your dollars are $17 times 20 %, that's 3.4...3.4 dollars, 3.4, right? So
basically you could roll your ... your tax rate back down to 13.4 which would make that
competitive in terms of what everybody else is levying for their property tax.
Throgmorton/ And, Tom, that's assuming no change in commercial property taxes, right? The
commercial property tax rate.
Markus/ Um...
O'Malley/ Yes! We're talking ... I was just using current (both talking)
Markus/ Yeah, we're using current, because we don't know, but ... but you know it's all relative
to what that would adjust to, as well. (several talking) All I'm saying is, you know,
I ... you know, I've been pretty vocal about ... aboutthe ...the amount of business and
therefore, you know, property values going that direction and it's our, um, it's our
citizens that are shopping there too. This is a way to ... to kind of balance the table again.
So, we haven't completely, you know, got all the details of this worked out yet, but it
started us thinking about how do we, you know, create a little more equity in the
(mumbled) metro environment.
Hayek/ Food for thought! (several talking and laughing)
Champion/ The thing about the sales tax is ... I ... I wondered what could we do to keep it going,
cause I'm telling you since it's been re- enacted, I'm not ... privy to everybody's
complaints in town, I've not heard one person complain about paying it. Not one person!
Markus/ The advantage of this particular sales tax, if it were to be approved, it would be applied
in all of the jurisdictions so there wouldn't be a competitive disadvantage having it spread
throughout the whole...
O'Malley/ That's correct. The ... this one goes back to the old formula that requires the
contiguous cities to have a majority ... a majority of the ... of the electorate...
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Karr/ It's a cumulative total of all the contiguous cities.
O'Malley/ Yes, so if Iowa City was to hands -down win it and the other two cities didn't, they
would have to go along if that majority.
Mims/ Oh, really?
O'Malley/ Yes.
Karr/ It's a cum... cumulative total of all contiguous, so if it passes Iowa City...
Dobyns/ A super- majority.
Dilkes/ Well, for instance, the one that we just passed would not have passed were it not under
the special rule, because Coralville did not pass it. But that rule doesn't apply anymore.
O'Malley/ So if we had 100 extra votes and they were short 50 and 25 in North Liberty, we
would carry the day! (laughter)
Mims/ Okay.
Dickens/ Second! (laughter)
O'Malley / Anyways, food for thought that, you might want to...
Markus/ I don't think you'd want to run it, quite frankly, during a general election anyway,
um ... especially a big presidential, cause I think there is that drop -off, but it's... something
you might want to keep in your mind.
Hayek/ Well and we also have the ... the Justice Center which...
Mims / Right.
Champion/ Right.
Hayek/ ...Rick made a good point about to me earlier today.
Markus/ ...which would probably irk some people (both talking)
Hayek/ But that's ... this is an interesting analysis.
Mims/ Very interesting.
Payne/ So, one thing that I didn't quite understand, Kevin, is it said that you wanted a
recommendation by August 14th
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O'Malley/ No, I'm not recommending!
Markus/ No, we ... no that point is (both talking) we would have to approve it to go on the
November ballot (several talking)
Payne/ Oh, okay.
Markus/ (several talking) and what we wanted to do is bring it to your attention so that you
knew that this issue was looming, uh, Marian, myself, the Mayor have all been called by
the Mayor of Hills.
Karr/ There's a number of cities ... all of the small cities are concerned about the future of their
revenue if we do not ... put it on. So they're looking at their budget (several talking) they
have ... they do not have the ability to put it on. They can't ... so they need to know if
we're going to continue it or not because of the impact on their individual budgets.
Dickens/ So when does this current one end? Is it...
O'Malley/ Uh, June of 13.
Dickens/ Okay.
Payne/ So we ... we could ... so ... not doing anything just leaves it food for thought for right now
but then we could do something with it and put it on like the March 13 ballot (several
talking)
Karr/ There would be a gap. There would not be contiguous, but you would have a little gap.
Markus/ You understand that? (several responding)
Mims/ So once it ... when could we set a date? I mean, we ... if we decided going forward we
wanted to do this; we don't want to do it this fall.
Karr/ The State tells us the dates for the elections and the deadlines. We have two dates
available to you before, as Kevin said, it lapses. That's all we've planned out, and in
November, which is the August 14th, and then the March date, which is sometime I think
in December. I'd have to look.
Mims / And so you say if we did it in March ... there still would be a gap in the collection of the
taxes...
Karr/ Yes.
Mims/ ... so when would it go into effect?
O'Malley/ It's usual ... I'd have to look at the law. There's like 90 days or...
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Karr/ Yeah, I'd have to look at it myself.
Mims/ Okay.
O'Malley/ It's not a long period.
Mims/ Okay. Thank you!
Hayek/ The point is you're recommending that we don't do anything...
Karr/ I think ... I think though, Kevin, isn't it ... isn't it the March one would give you a second
shot before it lapses.
O'Malley/ Before it lapses (both talking)
Karr/ ...would not lapse in March. It's your second shot before it lapses. The next time after
that. So you have two times before it lapses — November and March.
Dilkes/ You would not have a gap if (both talking)
Karr/ There would be no gap. (several talking) There would be no gap but you would have no
other opportunity, so it would cause an automatic gap, if it should not pass in March.
Markus/ Gives you a little time to think about it.
Karr/ But the other thing is the ramification s for the other cities, as well as ours, in their budget
preparation.
Mims/ Sure.
Karr / And that's what they're doing right now, is looking at the budget prep. So waiting till
March, you have to have it certified by the following year, and that's what they're asking
for.
Throgmorton/ I ... I don't have any trouble seeing why you're pretty excited about this as a
possibility (laughter)
Mims/ Good! (laughter)
Throgmorton/ But I think it'll be worthwhile to think a little bit ahead of time about, uh, potential
cross subsidies, or a potential cross subsidy between the people who will pay sales taxes
and the people who will benefit from property tax reductions. Just try to think about it,
cause it'd be ... I can imagine how various people in this town would complain about
extending (both talking)
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Markus/ Progressive versus the regressive.
Throgmorton/ Yeah. Yeah.
Markus/ Yeah, I understand that. (both talking) And that's always going to be in play.
Although I, you know, having looked at these issues for a lot of years, I contend that
probably the fairest way to get to some sort of equity of taxation is have a number of
different types of tax because every tax impacts a different group of people differently.
So if you can spread `em, I think you get closer to everybody paying more their fair
share.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled) be prepared to answer that question.
Markus/ I understand. I understand.
Hayek/ Okay, well, we've got time to, uh ... work session this (several talking) Okay, thank you
for that update and, Kevin, for sticking around, uh... (several talking) for several hours
to ... to get to that. Uh...
Dickens/ Talk about chickens!
Council Time / Pending Work Session Topics:
Hayek/ Council time!
Dobyns/ I agree with Terry. Uh, about ... the urban chicken issue. Um ... when is that, do we
have that on the docket? I know it's ... I'd sort of like to kind of move on this during the
summer. Is there a...
Hayek/ It's on the pending list. It just hasn't been reduced to a date.
Dobyns/ I know, but I'd like to, uh ... get it off the pending list and put it on the list.
Karr/ You only have two work sess ... two work sessions in the summer. (several talking) Uh-
huh, 31 and August 21.
Payne/ And you aren't going to be here in August, right?
Dobyns/ Uh ... but I'll be here, yeah, I'll change my vacation plans.
Payne/ For us? (several talking)
Dobyns/ For you!
Throgmorton/ I ... I'd agree with Rick about moving it up, but ... along with that I'd say we need
to think a little bit about how we're prioritizing topics, uh, with regard to that pending
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list. I'd say some of em are pretty darn trivial to be honest, in my judgment. And,
relative to other issues (both talking)
Markus/ ...that are on the pending list?
Throgmorton/ Yeah, and ... and we ought to at least prioritize `em cause ... I'm not saying I'm
right about whether... some of `em are trivial or not, but we ought to think about which
ones should be first, which ones should be second, third, fourth and maybe something
else comes up that oughta move up to the top, and so on.
Champion/ I like the chickens!
Markus/ Some ... some of `em are ... are more driven, I think, by the timing of when the reports
are ready, you know, to ... to get to those issues and...
Dickens/ Well like the (both talking)
Markus/ ... different departments that have different, you know...
Dickens/ Noise ordinance, you know, the noise that the Ecumenical Towers, with the new
apartment building being built between there and where the music was coming from
(mumbled) but then there may be more noise from people that live there so...
Hayek/ Okay well with respect to the backyard chicken ordinance what ... what are we waiting on
from ... from staff's perspective before we discuss it?
Champion/ We had an ordinance at one time. (several talking)
Markus/ We should have a, you know, we'd have the, uh, Cedar Rapids' ordinance, you know,
we could have that present, uh, we did have something presented previously so ... we can
just roll that back, if you're ready to take (several talking) it on.
Dobyns/ There's not much ... that much more incremental information, I think, we need. What
...we need a work session and then the vote on ... two public (both talking)
Champion/ ...want Meisha to comment on it, and I also think we were ... they were having to
build a palace to keep these chickens in in the last ordinance. It was like a very
complicated structure. And these people were talking about lettin' `em run around their
backyard eating seeds.
Hayek/ All right, let... let's... when do we want to take this up? It sounds like it wouldn't take
too much effort from staff to be ready for that. Do we want to bump whatever's
scheduled for the last part of July and into August?
Markus/ Well ... (several talking) ...one of the items that we're proposing is that ... or is the, um,
the name of the company? (several talking) The landfill, the (several talking) I think
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that's kind of critical in terms of our thinking towards where we go to the next landfill
design and (several talking) so that's critical. I don't know if we can put two of those
together. Can you put urban chickens and landfill together? (laughter and several
talking)
Hayek/ Would it be acceptable to get it on the calendar (several talking) or ... or, you know, early
fall at some time.
Dickens/ At least say that it's moving up on our list that we're...
Champion/ Are chickens born only in the spring, or are they born year - round? (several talking)
Dickens/ I just know that they make a mess year- round.
Dobyns/ We need to discuss the boards and commissions. I think that's something that (several
talking)
Markus/ ... so that was the plan to put Fiberight and the boards and commissions on the very next
agenda. You want to shoot for that August meeting being urban chickens? Or is that
too...
Throgmorton/ Yes! (several talking) August.
Dickens/ Yep. I don't think it's going to be as big a...
Hayek/ Certainly wouldn't classify it as at the top of the priority list given what I see here, but
I'm ... if people want to go in August that's fine with me.
Markus/ But ... but from the standpoint of how much ... (several talking) ... paper it's processing.
Hayek/ Yeah, that's fine.
Markus/ ... get some of that done.
Hayek/ Okay.
Markus/ Or it might get worse.
Dilkes/ As long as you don't want the ordinance to come at the work session. If you just want to
kind of discuss the issue, we've got that in a memo and you can decide and then if you
want us to do an ordinance.
Champion/ Did we have an ordinance at one time?
Dickens/ Yes. They'd drafted a ... (several talking)
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Dilkes/ Did we have a... oh, okay.
Karr/ But we also now, as Tom said, we have a Cedar Rapids' ordinance we can throw in too, so
you might (several talking)
Mims/ Des Moines has one too, don't they?
Karr/ Uh -huh.
Mims/ Des Moines?
Dickens/ Yep.
Karr/ There's a number of `em out there.
Markus/ We'll pull some of those.
Hayek/ Okay.
Mims/ All right.
Dobyns/ Yeah, we can pluck a lot of (laughter)
Hayek/ Scratch and claw your way forward there, Dobyns! Okay, um ... oh, I just lost my place
here. (several talking) Yeah ... or IP3, depending on what you're looking at. Uh, okay,
other Council time items? Anything, uh... for the good of the order there? Pending work
session topics, we just spent some time on that.
Mims/ Meeting schedule.
Meeting Schedule:
Hayek/ Meeting schedule, upcoming events, Council invites.
Throgmorton/ Rick, you gonna say anything about your event this weekend?
Dobyns/ I'm just ... so glad that this week has come (laughter)
Mims/ Gonna get it over with, huh? (laughter)
Dobyns/ Yes, yeah, and I get to send my two darling daughters out into the ... the world of
marriage. (laughter)
Dickens/ At the same time!
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Dobyns/ At the same time! And uh ... providing all the economic opportunities for the city of
Iowa City that I can as a single individual. (laughter)
Hayek/ All right!
Karr/ Is there any, uh, changes in the schedule proposed for the rest of the year, September,
October, November, December? (several talking)
Mims/ Looked good to me.
Payne/ There is one of those that I was going to be on vacation. The November one. November
6th or something like that.
Karr/ Right. There ... there was, you had a, as a matter of fact, let's go back. October we had
one, uh, change that I made because there were five ... five Tuesdays, and Terry was
going to be gone one, so I did make an adjustment there. November, you had a ... a
conflict November 6th, and Matt had a potential one the 20th, and I wasn't sure if you
wanted to switch to 13 and 27, or whether you wanted to just leave them the
same... November dates.
Champion/ November 27, that must be Thanksgiving.
Karr/ Well ... ri�ht now you're meeting Tuesday before Thanksgiving. ..in the proposed schedule.
The 27t would be the Tuesday after.
Hayek/ 22nd is Thanksgiving.
Champion/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ I ... I still don't know what ... my conflict hasn't changed toward the end of November,
um, and I can't remember exactly what ... uh ... what day that is, but ... I would suggest you
go forward (both talking)
Karr/ The 6th is election day, too.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Champion/ It's election day too?
Payne/ That's the general election.
Karr/ It's the general election. The election.
Payne/ The election.
Champion/ We can't meet...
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Payne/ Can we move it to the 13th and the 27th?
Dickens/ I don't have any conflicts then.
Mims/ (mumbled) (laughter)
Dobyns/ That's okay with me. 13th, 27th
Karr/ So move... so move November to the 13th and the 27tH
Hayek/ I may ... I may not be able to attend that, but again, I don't remember what dates my
conflict is.
Karr/ You said you might have a conflict the 20th, but you didn't think it was important enough
to move it to the 27th.
Hayek/ I might have a conflict no matter what you do in the latter part of November.
Karr / Ah! (laughter)
Hayek/ So just proceed. (several talking)
Karr/ So why don't ... we'll go ahead with the 13th and 27th then?
Dickens/ Is it a federal or state issue? (laughter)
Hayek/ Yes!
Karr/ Okay. Okay, so we'll make that one change and I'll put ... we'll put the schedule out in the
next packet.
Dilkes/ Steve Atkins used to do this when you were having these kinds of discussions. (several
talking and laughing)
Hayek/ Okay, anything else?
Mims/ Move to adjourn.
Hayek/ Uh, good meeting and thank you for your hard work and we'll see you all later!
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