HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-07-31 TranscriptionJuly 31, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Bentley, Moran, Karr, Dilkes, Davidson, Boothroy, Fosse,
Rummel, Dulek, O'Brien
Council Appointments:
Diversity Committee:
Hayek/ Welcome, everyone! Um ... we'll jump right in. The first item is Council appointments.
We have a number of them to make this evening. Uh, why don't we go in the order in
which they appear, which means the first one to discuss is, uh, Diversity Committee, and
I ... I've spoken to some but not all of you, uh, I got to as many people as I could. Um...
and what I thought I would do, if it's all right with people, is just throw out some names
that appeared to be ones that multiple people showed support for. Um, and then we can
kind of fill out the rest that way. Um... are you okay with that?
Throgmorton/ Matt, uh, well I ... I think it would be worthwhile to think a little bit about what
principles would guide our appointments. Uh, you know... should we just sort of do it
willy nilly?
Dobyns/ Seven? (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ That's right (several talking)
Champion/ Well I think we can ... we can point out the attributes as we name the people and that
will tell us what we're looking for, I think.
Throgmorton/ Well, that's certainly one way to do it. Uh ... I ... you all do what you want, but I
was going to suggest that we try to be clear about what, uh, principles guide our own
choices, and then... follow those principles.
Mims/ Well to piggyback on that, I mean, I would just throw out — as I was looking through all
of these, for me it was, you know, getting as much information through the materials that
I could on the individuals, and then it was looking for a committee that would be
diversified in terms of ethnicity, gender, age, and... organizations or affiliations within the
community. So ... you get a lot of representation from a lot of different areas. I think
that's really important for a committee of this sort.
Hayek/ And I ... to follow up on that, I ... I would say that the ... that the names I kept hearing
again and again appeared to me to be ... representative of various corners of the
community. Um, gender, race ... uh, background, uh, age, um ... things of that nature, and
if that's getting a little bit ... if that's approaching what you're (both talking)
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Throgmorton/ Yeah, those kinds of things, and I guess I'd toss out a couple others that matter to
me. Um, I ... I think it's important to have, uh, some members who can speak not just
about experiences of, uh, professional people in this city, of which there are many, but of,
uh, people who will speak knowledgeably about the experiences of...of newcomers who
are of working class or you know lower income people and have their own lifetime
experiences in the city. That's one thing, and a second is, uh, I think it'd be really
important to have, uh, to appoint people who are able to work well with people who have
diverse points of view.
Champion/ Well I think that would be important, of course.
Payne/ But how do you know that from reading their application?
Throgmorton/ I only know it from experience with, uh (both talking) like more than three -
quarters of the people who have applied. That's how I...
Hayek/ Right. I ... I don't disagree with that. Um ... and I ... I think this list that I'll propose, um,
to get us started, meets those criteria, Jim, um, and I know, uh, a number of the people on
this list, not all of them. Um, but ... well, I ... why don't I just throw out some names?
Um, I... I, Jim, your input... I... I'm with you on... on... on that, and I think there's, uh,
pretty good consensus that those are the objectives to ... to pursue. Um, let me throw out
some names here, and I'll go in the order in which they appear. Um, Joe Dan Coulter
appeared to get, uh, a fair amount of support. Um, Orville Townsend Sr.
Champion/ Totally!
Hayek/ Uh, did as well. Um ... Kingsley Botchway. Um ... and before we all comment let me just
throw the names out there. Um, Donna Henry. Um, Bakhit Bakhit. Um, Joan Vanden
Berg. Uh, and Cindy Roberts. Those are the names, um ... most frequently identified to
me, and I think ... I think LaTasha Massey got, uh, mentioned by at least one or two, as
well. So ... I think that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, maybe eight that I've just
mentioned, which I would propose as a starting list that we can work with.
Throgmorton/ I fully support five of the people and I'd certainly be happy to name them, but I
want to make a pitch for LaTasha Massey. I've had a fair amount of experience with her
over the past year and find her to be, uh, really knowledgeable, really deft in interacting
with other people, really well - connected with, uh, basically, uh, African American
newcomers to our city, in ... in ways that I think would be really fruitful for this particular
committee, given the origins of the committee and what are original purposes were. So
I'd really like to make a strong pitch for her.
Champion/ Well I can totally support her. Totally!
Payne/ Can we talk a little bit about people that are already on other committees? And whether
we want people to be on more than one?
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Champion/ I think that's okay.
Mims/ Yeah, I mean, didn't we have that discussion back when we were getting ready to form
this that since this was an ad hoc that that was going to be acceptable if they were already
on another board or commission? And to me...
Payne/ If we did ... if we did, I was zoned out! Because I certainly do not remember the
discussion whatsoever.
Hayek/ I checked because you raised that point. It is in the resolution we...
Payne/ Okay!
Hayek/ ...passed that members of other City boards and commissions may serve in the Diversity
Committee, and I think, as I recall, the discussion was ... because this is an ad hoc
committee (both talking)
Markus/ Yes, that was the issue. (several talking)
Hayek/ ... short-term in duration. That was the distinction.
Dobyns/ That doesn't mean it's not a consideration. That might want you to move, you know...
Payne/ I mean I just didn't select anybody because of...that was already on a committee, because
I think this committee's going to take a lot of work and ... I think that they already do a lot
of work on the other committees that they're on the... commissions or committees that
they're on. And ... the Human Rights Commission also has a subcommittee. You know.
Is Orville Townsend also on that subcommittee?
Champion/ Well, he's certainly on the Human Rights Committee.
Payne/ I mean, he's on the Human Rights Commission, but they have a subcommittee also. Is he
on that subcommittee and now he's on three different...
Karr/ I don't know that. Yes they have a subcommittee. I don't know if Mr. Townsend's on the
subcommittee.
Throgmorton/ I don't think he is, but Michelle, each of the applicants has a pretty good idea of
how much work would be involved and what it implies for their own lives.
Champion/ And I also think he'd just be excellent on this committee, and I ... I don't care how
many other committees he's on.
Payne/ I just want `em to give it ... their full effort and not ... the other committees shouldn't slack
because of this effort.
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Mims / Right.
Payne/ Is my thought!
Throgmorton/ (mumbled) couple things I ... well, I admire Orville quite a bit but couple things
really stand out, I think. One is his long -time residence in Iowa City. So he ... he knows
transformations in the city in ways that lots of other people don't know. And the other is
in fact that he is on the Human Rights Committee, and therefore he's (mumbled) and
therefore he's privy to all the ... their conversations about, uh, Latino immigrants, in
particular, but other more recent newcomers and the ... and the challenges they face. So
(both talking) bring some insight there that others wouldn't.
Payne / And I did go down that path too, having a bridge between the committee isn't a bad idea,
so I was conflicted on... what was right and what was wrong, you know. Not that either's
right or wrong but...
Mims/ Yeah, I tried to look at it in terms of...you know, I mean I looked at what others they
were on, but more... assuming that they applied, that they felt they had the time to
commit to it, and ... what would be a good mix of people, um, for this committee.
Payne/ I think the best thing is to have the best committee, regardless of anything else. So...
Mims/ (mumbled) agree.
Champion/ How many people did we decide that should be on this?
Hayek/ Seven.
Champion/ ON I thought we had eight.
Payne / And I think you did read seven names, Matt.
Hayek/ I did, and then the eighth one was, uh, LaTasha Massey. (several talking)
Payne/ Oh, cause I have seven counting her so...
Hayek/ I have Coulter, Townsend, Henry (both talking)
Mims/ Botchway.
Hayek/ ... Botchway, I'm sorry, Bakhit, um ... Massey, Vanden Berg, Roberts.
Dobyns/ What do we feel about ... making eighth person LaTasha Massey, or is seven ... seven is
always considered the optimal number for something like this, but that doesn't mean it's
perfect.
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Dilkes/ I think you probably want to have an odd number.
Dobyns/ (mumbled) Okay. Yeah, there's a ... (mumbled)
Hayek/ And that list, incidentally, would ... is roughly half and half in terms of gender balance.
Mims/ I mean, I kind of came down ... as I was looking at these and trying to narrow down
between Donna Henry and LaTasha Massey, and ... and I could probably go either way. 1
don't know either of them personally. Um, I guess one of the things that I guess pushed
me a little bit more towards Donna was ... um, I think, Jim, you made the comment in the
beginning, not having this an all academic, uh, committee, so to speak, and ... with Joan
Vanden Berg we've got one social worker. LaTasha Massey would be a second social
worker out of seven people. Um, just the experiences that Donna Henry would bring to
the table, it seems to me as a single head of household, kids in the school district, um...
so that was just kind of the way I was looking at it in terms of putting her ahead of
LaTasha, but again, I don't know either of them and ... but I think it's important, you
know, as you were saying, Jim, all socioeconomic backgrounds, etc., and that's, again,
where I'm making an assumption that in the way she described herself in her materials...
Throgmorton/ Right.
Mims/ ...um, that ... that would be a good representation to have on the committee.
Throgmorton/ I agree.
Champion/ (mumbled) ...very good point. And thank you for observing all that.
Mims/ So I'm personally am very comfortable with the seven that Matt initially read.
Champion/ I am too. Let's just go for the seven.
Dobyns/ I agree.
Hayek/ How do the rest of you feel?
Payne/ Well, I still have an issue with assigning people to two committees, but... especially these
two committees.
Mims/ Well, the one thing I would say also in terms of...I would say with those two individuals,
I think those are very, very crucial individuals, given the pool that we have to work with,
uh, to have on this committee. As Jim said, you know, Orville Townsend has been in this
community for a long time, has seen a lot of the changes, um ... not afraid to speak his
mind about, you know, his views on things and what he sees, and I think that's really
important on this committee, and then Kingsley Botchway is the only, um, young African
American male that's not an immigrant. Uh, I'm assuming he's not. I know he went to
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law school here and everything but ... I think that's a really important demographic that
we need to have on the committee.
Throgmorton/ He's also a former bus driver, which I didn't know until I read (several talking)
Hayek/ I saw that too!
Mims/ Yeah. Could bring an interesting perspective (several talking) depending on the routes he
drove.
Throgmorton/ I agree with what you're saying. Let me make one pitch and then we'll, uh, make
our decision here, but ... uh, I ... I've known Joe, uh, Coulter for some time, though not
really closely or anything, and I have a lot of respect and admiration for him, and I
understand that he's Native American and all that, urn ... I .... I would recommend that we
bring LaTasha Massey on board for the reasons that I already articulated, instead of Joe.
Uh, I don't want to push the point too hard, but I make that suggestion. I mean, mainly
because think ... think about the origins of the committee, you know, and the motivations
for, uh, creating it. And then ... and then we should ask ourselves who ... who do we really
need to have on the committee, given the origins and purpose. And ... and then I'm happy
to go however the majority decides.
Hayek/ I think if we do that then we end up with a five to two gender balance, which we're not
required to do. I verified that. But it would be consistent with what we've tried to do.
I ... I don't know him very well, um, but I ... Coult ... Mr. Coulter, uh, but ... his perspective
was intriguing to me and... and his background.
Champion/ I want to keep him on there.
Mims/ Yeah, I ... I don't know. I guess I just think from diversity, even though I know ... I know
what you're saying, Jim, in terms of kind of how this got started, urn ... when you do have
somebody representing another ethnicity and race ... and culture, I think ... I think it's
important to try and include somebody there, as well.
Dobyns/ Jim, are you trying to ... possibly would substituting one for the other improve the
dynamics of the group, as a group? Do you think or...
Throgmorton/ Well ... I ... I don't know, it depends on you know who the group is so...
Dobyns/ Uh -huh.
Throgmorton/ I ... I don't know, the only person I have not met is Bakhit Bakhit. I've heard of
him, and heard many good things about him, but I haven't seen him kind of interacting
with other people so...
Hayek/ I met him briefly.
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Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Hayek/ Um, and ... and he's a ... a ... he's very impressive! Um ... and from third -party sources I've
learned that he has a reputation for working well with others and being thorough and
responsible, etc. Um, and so he sounds like a good candidate, and I believe he is the
chosen representative from the Immigrant Voices group (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Right. That's what I understand too.
Hayek/ ...put forward. So I think it's important to put him on there.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, me too.
Champion/ Well I think most of us are happy with the original seven. Should just move on.
Dickens/ Can we put one as an alternate, if something would happen? That last (several talking)
Hayek/ Sure.
Dobyns/ That would be LaTasha, probably.
Throgmorton/ That sounds like a pretty reasonable solution to me (several talking)
Dickens/ ... somebody may have to drop out after they start, and we would have to go through
the process of looking; we've already got what we consider eight good candidates,
so ... (several responding)
Throgmorton/ Good suggestion.
Hayek/ Okay.
Champion/ That is a good idea!
Dilkes/ Are you thinking then that person would sit in on the discussions so that if someone did
drop out they, I mean, or ... or are you just talking about until they start?
Dickens/ We could just do it till they start.
Dilkes/ So... so if one of the seven cannot serve, um...
Dickens/ That person (both talking)
Dilkes/ ...okay.
Dickens/ That's probably safer that way.
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Dobyns/ Like a jury, okay, yeah.
Dilkes/ I think we just need to be clear about whether we would (mumbled) (several responding)
Dickens/ ...to sit in and not be able to say anything, which isn't ... (several talking)
Dobyns/ Do we need a motion?
Hayek/ So how ... yeah, so the understanding would be that ... that the eighth would be not tending
the meetings unless she wanted to as a member of the public... and... and just there in our
hip pocket if we needed (both talking)
Dilkes/ It's not going to be like a juror alternate. I think all we're saying is that if, um, we
contact these seven and one of them cannot serve for some reason then LaTasha (several
talking)
Hayek/ Okay, let's do that then. So as I'm hearing it from the majority, if not everybody, is ... the
seven are Coulter, Townsend, Botchway, Henry, Bakhit, Vanden Berg, Roberts. (several
responding) And then... if we run into a `thanks but no thanks,' uh, Massey.
Dobyns/ Do we need to name a Chair or is the group going to do that?
Hayek/ What's that?
Dobyns/ Do we need to name a Chair or is the group going to do that?
Hayek/ We will need to name a Chair.
Champion/ We should (mumbled) or they should do it?
Hayek/ I think we established that we were going to do it (both talking)
Markus/ ...the Council would.
Karr / And a Vice Chair.
Champion/ Oh!
Hayek/ Any thoughts?
Dobyns/ I've heard good things about Cindy Roberts.
Champion/ And Coulter. Or however you pronounce that name.
Throgmorton/ I think that would not send a good signal.
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Champion/ Why?
Throgmorton/ Given the origins of the committee and the purposes for which it was established.
Champion/ Well I don't know that the origin of the committee has anything to do with it. About
who you put on it and how it's run. I mean, maybe it's not good to have all that
background information. You already have a prejudice about what you're going to do.
Hayek/ Or there's also the issue of, I mean, perception sometimes (both talking)
Mims/ Perceptions, yep!
Hayek/ ...sometimes drives everything else.
Throgmorton/ Here's another possibility. Perhaps, uh ... Or ... Orville could be Chair, could be
asked to be Chair and Cindy asked to be Vice Chair. I'm not pushing that really strongly.
It's just ... puttin' it out there as a possibility. Or perhaps Joan as Vice Chair (several
talking)
Dobyns/ Um, I would go with Michelle. I think the best people, my sense is Cindy, she'd be, uh,
Chair is sometimes not necessarily the person who pushes the agenda, but the person who
organizes things. Um, gets everybody on schedule, you know, previous administrative
experience (mumbled) scutwork. Um... (several talking) Exactly like the Mayor!
(laughter) Um, and so ... (laughter)
Hayek/ I'm the cat herder! (laughter)
Dobyns/ Yes! (mumbled) ...and so I would think that, uh ... it doesn't necessarily force the
dynamic would be my sense, and that's why I thought Cindy would be a good Chair.
Hayek/ I don't ... I ... I'm kind of six of one, half a dozen. I think ... I think the names mentioned
would be, um, would be good names. I'm not going to push one way or the other real
hard. All right, so that we have two names out there — Orville Townsend Sr. and, uh,
Cindy Roberts. What's the, uh, what's the will of the Council?
Throgmorton/ Perhaps they could be co- chairs?
Dobyns/ Ohhh, no!
Champion/ No! You gotta have a chiefl (laughter) Why don't we do Cindy for Chair, and
Orville for Vice Chair?
Payne/ Is Orville the Chair of the Human Rights, or Human Rights Commission?
Champion/ I don't think so.
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Payne/ I thought he was for some reason. I don't know...
Dobyns/ The other thing is that...
Payne/ Okay.
Dobyns/ ...there's a part of what like Michelle was saying. I think we have to have some
consideration, um, that ... you know, Orville's on another committee, as well, and there's
some overlap. Uh, and there's a bias.
Hayek/ You know ... I'm ... Cindy's in the back of the room and I kind of mouthed to her do you
even want to do this and I'm getting a (laughter) of reluctance on her part, uh, thank you
for being here! (laughter) Um, but I think that may be somewhat of an indication as to
what we should do. Uh (several talking) ...she was, uh, I think encouraging us to not
select her as the Chair.
Champion/ Would she be willing to be Vice Chair? (unable to hear person away from mic)
(laughter)
Hayek/ I'll take that as a yes! (laughter)
Dobyns/ Then I defer to the reality of the situation. (laughter and several responding)
Hayek/ How `bout Kingsley?
Dobyns/ Now Orville isn't here to nod his head in either direction either so... (laughter)
Hayek/ You know, we could also do Kingsley Botchway as a Chair. Could ask him.
Throgmorton/ You could. That...
Mims/ I think that would be ... I think that could be a very good (several responding)
Throgmorton/ It's an interesting, I'm sorry (several talking)
Mims/ ...just out of law school and he's obviously got some capabilities in terms of organization
and time things and ... urn ... kind of speaks to some of the issues we've been talking about
with, well, he may not fit in with that, uh, same group, I mean, he's a young African
American male in the community, um ... I think ... I think give him a shot at leadership
position on this committee.
Dobyns/ I don't know the man. So I can't...
Throgmorton/ You know ... given the substance, it's a stre ... it's a stretch to ask somebody who's
pretty new to town and just out of law school, I mean, I think he's probably a great guy,
but that's asking a lot and...
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Mims/ Well I don't know. When you look at this, I mean, he's ... you know, he's got legal
experience with policies and procedures. He's worked with troubled youth. He's got
experience in coordinating large -scale efforts to help in the community. So he's done
organizational kinds of things. This is going to be a whole committee effort, I mean, you
know, this is not the Chair running the show on this thing. Um...
Champion/ Oh I think ... I think that's fine. (mumbled) Matt (mumbled) task force ... you were
just a young little pup then weren't you when you did that Housing Task Force? (several
talking) And he did fine!
Hayek/ The Eagle Scout project! (laughter)
Mims/ I mean, he also has a BS in Criminal Justice and Criminology and, you know, that kind of
relates to some of the things, some of the topics here. So I think ... I think that'd be a
good (both talking)
Hayek/ ... guy can get through law school, he can ... (laughter) organize.
Throgmorton/ Well, in any event, we would be inviting them, uh, to serve as Chair and Vice
Chair.
Mims/ Sure! Sure!
Hayek/ What if we invited him and then ... and ... and Cindy Roberts as Vice Chair?
Mims/ I think that's a good ... I'm comfortable with that.
Hayek/ All right.
Champion/ Me too!
Hayek/ You guys okay with that?
Payne/ Yep! (several responding)
Airport Commission:
Hayek/ Okay. Next item is, uh, Airport Commission. And as soon as my i -Pad warms up here.
We have, um, one spot for one vacancy; Christine Ogren. Any thoughts?
Champion/ I think she's fine! (several responding)
Hayek/ Okay? (several responding) Consensus? Okay.
Champion/ Yes!
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HCDC:
Hayek/ HCDC is the next one. One vacancy there, uh, Jarrod Gatlin, if I'm pronouncing that
right, is finishing his first term and has applied, uh, to re -up.
Champion/ That's always a good idea, because it ... a learning experience, and we like to give
people a second term.
Mims/ Yeah, we've usually done that.
Hayek/ People okay with that? All right. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ ...(several talking) I was just going to say that I noticed that one...
Payne/ ... another committee too.
Dobyns/ Well, and that's what ... yeah. I think you have to give credit to people who, you know,
think about running for Council and I think, you know, Dan would, you know, I
remember him this summer when he did go and he was very articulate, um...
Hayek/ Yeah!
Dobyns/ ...um, and I thought he did a nice job, um, but he did apply for two different things
so ... I would recommend him for the second, even though I have a great deal of
regard ... for Mike, I know Mike McKay. I think he'd do a great job but ... I ... I guess I'd
give the edge to Dan and Dan made it easy by applying to do different commissions
(laughter)
Hayek/ I think he applied to three. (several talking)
Payne/ ...I had him for Human Rights.
Hayek/ He applied to Human Rights, PCRB, and HCDC.
Dobyns/ Yep.
Champion/ Well I'd like to see him stay on HCDC because I think the experience is really
helpful in that commission.
Hayek/ Well he's not ... Dan is not on...
Dobyns/ Talking about Dan or you're talking about the guy who wants to run for, oh, I'm sorry!
I switched to Dan Tallon.
Champion/ Okay.
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Dobyns/ Yeah, I agree with you. I think ... yeah.
Human Ri ts:
Hayek/ Is there support for ... for re- upping Jarrod Gatlin on HCDC? (several responding) Okay.
So that takes us to Human Rights. And uh... seven for... seven applicants for one spot.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I'm really impressed with, uh, Kira Pasquezee's, uh, application, though I
haven't met her; I don't know her personally, uh, but I know she applied before.
Hayek/ Uh -huh.
Throgmorton/ She's reapplying; uh, she's got this great background. Looks like about comm...
...building community dialog out in Boulder or, the Colorado Springs, I can't remember
which, uh, and looked like, uh, she'd be a terrific addition to that commission.
Mims / What was the other one that Dan applied for? Cause I would like ... he has applied before
this, as well, and he's shown a real interest in the community, and...
Hayek/ Yep! PCRB. (several talking)
Payne/ The reason that I ... I picked him for Human Rights was ... that Kira, I liked her application
too, Jim, but she hasn't been here very long, and for Human Rights I kinda thought
maybe it would be more important for somebody that's ... knows a little more about the
community. I mean, I think this is a real important commission, especially with what we
have going on right now with the other ad hoc committee, so ... I ... I just thought it was
important to have somebody that was... knowledgeable ... more knowledgeable, what I
would perceive as more knowledgeable about the community.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, yeah, I understand. I know we haven't gotten to the PCRB but if it weren't
for the gender requirement, I would recommend that we appoint Dan to the PCRB, given
his background. I mean, you know, it's pretty fascinating to talk with him about what he
did in Afghanistan, Pakistan at the border and what his role was in the military.
Dickens/ Just his history growing up, I ... I got to talk to him quite a bit. Susan and I did.
Mims/ Yeah.
Dickens/ When we were running for Council and he's really an interesting young man. (several
talking)
Dobyns/ Is there a sense where he'd be better, as far as PCRB versus Human Rights
Commission?
Mims/ But have we got a... (several talking) gender thing on the police?
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Dilkes/ Yeah, you've got a gender requirement (several talking)
Dobyns/ Okay.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Dilkes/ ...on PCRB.
Payne/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ But you could readvertise if that's what the Council wanted to do.
Mims/ So do we have, well, let's skip to that one maybe first and see ... do we have ... okay,so we
have the female, so Royceann would be reappointed then if we went that route. How
many terms has Royceann done on the ... has she done more than one term on the PCRB?
Payne/ I thought her application just said one.
Karr/ It's just one, I believe. One I believe.
Mims/ Well, if we're going to be consistent, we typically have given people the opportunity...
Hayek/ Yeah!
Mims/ ... for a second term.
Champion/ Right, and I think very few times we haven't done it. If there've been some
problems with attendance and that kind of thing then ... we sometimes don't reappoint
people, but I (mumbled) a problem here.
Hayek/ My sense is that we... should reappoint.
Mims/ I do too.
Champion/ Uh -huh.
Mims/ So I think if we reappoint her then I would be in favor of Dan on the Human Rights
Commission.
Champion/ Right.
Hayek/ People okay with that? (several responding) Okay.
Dobyns / And then PCRB?
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Hayek/ Royceann Porter.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Hayek/ Okay. All right. That takes care of that. We need to start boogying here! Next item is
questions from Council regarding Planning and Zoning items.
Planning and Zoning:
Throgmorton/ I have a question about um ... I guess Item 4f, setback averaging. Real simple
question, Jeff. And thank you for setting me straight on those architectural renderings,
which has nothing to do with this but ... oh well! People make mistakes! Uh, the question
is this: are there any specific blocks to which this particular amendment would apply
directly immediately?
Davidson/ There ... there is a current issue with a individual who wants to build a, um ... wants to
build a dwelling unit, and... and would like to be able to adhere to what our current
requirement is, but because of the setback averaging, uh, there's two other houses on the
block and because of the setback averaging provision is being forced to put it in a place
that we really don't want him to put it and he doesn't want to put it, and...
Throgmorton/ Uh -huh.
Davidson/ And so this would rectify that situation for such short blocks.
Throgmorton/ Would it... if we adopt it as a general rule as... as part of our code, uh, how
extensive would ... would it apply? (both talking)
Davidson/ ... the ... the typical place you find this, Jim, is like in, well, your neighborhood where
you live now. You have the long blocks and then you have the short blocks, and it's
typically those short blocks that have between two and four units and it would apply to
...to those blocks, if there was an in-fill ... in-fill parcel.
Throgmorton/ Okay. Thanks.
Payne / And ... like when you have a new subdivision that backs up to an old subdivision it could
happen because they did setbacks different in each subdivision or something like that?
Davidson/ Yeah. Plan ... we went through it with Planning and Zoning and they do recommend
approval.
Hayek/ Okay.
Davidson/ Anything else?
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Hayek/ Any other P &Z items? Several of course we'll take up at the formal. Okay. Moving on
to general agenda items.
Agenda Items:
ITEM 2d(7) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO
EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST TO AN AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE CITY AND NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL
REGARDING COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
ADVISEMENT.
Throgmorton/ I'm wondering about Item 2d(7). Uh ... which is in the Consent Calendar, right,
about extending the agreement with the National Development Council and I ... I don't
have any principled opposition to that, but I am aware that various people out in the city
that I talked to have said various critical things about the National Development Council
and I think it would be helpful, uh, to have a brief description of who they are, what they
do, why ... why we ... established this contract with them in the first place, and why we
would want to extend it. And... and, in other words, to pull it from the Consent Calendar
and have a particular moment when that's clarified, uh, for people in the public. So I
don't have any particular question for you, Jeff. I'm just thinking it'd be good to pull that
(both talking)
Davidson/ We will be happy to make that clarification, whether you pull it from the Consent
Calendar or not, we will be happy to make that.
Hayek/ Do you ... do you want to have that discussion now or do you want to do it during the
formal?
Throgmorton/ No, I think it's important for the public to hear, I mean, you know cause ... you
know, I get feedback from people, right? And... and people say things that I think are,
uh, awry, and it's helpful to have it on the record why we're making choices, uh, the way
we are.
Champion/ (mumbled) fine. Good idea.
Markus/ This ... this particular contract is a six -month extension...
Throgmorton/ I understand that.
Markus/ ... um ... my experience with `em has been pretty favorable, uh, I think that they do us a
great service in evaluating, but we can go through the process.
Throgmorton/ Well the...
Mims/ I think given ... I would agree with Jim from the standpoint, with what we've been going
through with ... the TIF and how we analyze things and where we get our information, the
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people who totally disagree with us on that, to kind of lay it out front and center why we
have this contract and the value that we feel we get from it in a public forum is not a bad
idea.
Champion/ I think it's fine. Let's just do it.
Hayek/ So why don't you make that, uh, motion tonight to pull 2d(7).
Throgmorton/ Okay, can somebody help me remember to do that? (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ For separate consideration.
Markus/ The other thing I would mention is, I've asked another company to evaluate a project
that this company has evaluated to see how they ... they might differ in terms of how they
would evaluate things. I haven't received that back yet, and that was done gratis so...
Davidson/ And just one ... so Council's aware if you do pull it off the agenda we will be without
their services for three weeks, till the August 21" (several talking)
Karr/ ... separate consideration (several talking)
Davidson/ Oh, for separate consideration. Okay!
Hayek/ We'll take it up tonight.
Davidson/ Okay. Great.
Hayek/ And vote on it.
Davidson/ Great.
Mims/ Yep.
Karr/ We also will be deleting 2e(1) and setting a public hearing at a later time regarding the
Normandy Drive restoration project. The plans and specs are not in order.
Champion/ Okay, so ... we want to...
Karr/ We're just going to delete that.
Hayek/ You don't have to say anything; it's...
Champion/ Oh, it's just part of the amended...
Hayek/ The motion, or the resolution, says, uh (several talking)
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ITEM 8. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 10, ENTITLED USE
OF PUBLIC WAYS AND PROPERTY," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED,
"COMMERCIAL USE OF SIDEWALKS," SECTION 3, ENTITLED "USE
FOR SIDEWALK CAFES," TO REGULATE SIDEWALK CAFES
PRIMARILY BY POLICY AND ADMINISTRATIVE RULES.
Payne / Uh, I have a question on Item 8. That's the sidewalk cafes and the street.
Champion/ We're going to discuss those, aren't we?
Markus/ Yes, that's on the...
Payne/ ... discuss them all?
Markus/ Not all of `em.
Payne/ Well I just have a ... can I make a comment?
Hayek/ Well...
Dilkes/ It's a work session item.
Hayek/ That's fine, I mean, it's on ... it's on the work session agenda in a couple of bullet points
(person whispering away from mic)
Payne/ Oh! Are you elbowing me? (laughter)
Markus/ I thought it was a full check! (laughter)
Hayek/ Are you okay with that, Michelle?
Payne/ I, yeah I guess I just didn't see it on the, uh, spec ... spelled out separately.
Hayek/ Yeah, it's a ... bullet point 6 so ... any other, uh, agenda questions?
Dickens/ Do I have to separate you two? (laughter)
ITEM 2f(8) M. K. Parnell: Greyhound Service. [Staff response included]
Throgmorton/ Matt, I have one about Item 2f(8). Just an observation, and... and maybe a
suggestion. It's about the discontinuation of service by Greyhound.
Hayek/ Uh -huh.
Throgmorton/ At the Transportation facility. Um, I'm thinking about Megabus and my sense is
that they extern ... externalize costs onto the public and onto, uh, Fair Grounds Coffee
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Shop so they don't have to pay the cost of having a transportation center and a facility
that ... that, uh, their customers can walk into and sit down at and have a coffee at and stay
dry at and stay warm at and that kind of thing. Is there any way that the ... those
externalized costs could be recouped somehow? Do you know what I mean?
Markus/ I know exactly what you're talking about. I would say that ... that their ... I think their
model is somewhat opportunistic, but that depends on where you go in the country. Um,
they happen to use our Transportation Center, which I'm glad they do, but in other parts
of the country, they'll pull up on a city block, and so, I mean, I don't know how you
would charge back, you know, just loading and unloading on a particular city block
without the accommodations that we provide for them, so, yeah, I agree. They
externalize the costs by not having those features, but I think that's the way those systems
are going. I think technology's going to direct it that way. You buy tickets online.
Throgmorton/ Well I (both talking)
Markus/ ...they don't have a ticket booth.
Throgmorton/ Well, I just used Megabus to go to Chicago and come back so I ... I have some,
you know, personal experience with it, but I've also talked with Steve the owner of Fair
Grounds and... and he's told me, uh, repeatedly... (both talking)
Hayek/ Oh, I'm just ... trying to get a sense from... it's... technically not relating to Greyhound or
Trailways, um ... that's why I (both talking) it relates to the general issue, yeah, I know
(both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...needs some attention.
Hayek/ But we got the green light, we can ... we're fine to talk about it, Jim.
Throgmorton/ I didn't mean to make it into a big conversation.
Hayek/ Well ... okay, is there something we need to do or staff needed to do on this?
Markus/ Well I think the question that he raises, is there some way to, um, charge back, um,
whatever they're using and ... if it's their customers, I doubt that that's the case. If
they're ... if there's issues of them staying, loitering, extending their stay, maybe that's
something that the particular business has to deal with themselves. I don't know what
specifically the problem is to address, but...
Dilkes/ I can...
Markus/ Maybe you can share that with me later and we can discuss it with staff.
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Dilkes/ I mean I can imagine someone just sitting here thinking ways that you might be able
to ... to do that, and Chris is looking at me and telling me there might be so ... maybe we
just do a memo.
Throgmorton/ One doesn't have to elaborate now, but I'd be curious to know if there are things
that could possibly be done.
Markus/ We'll look into it.
Hayek/ Okay, yeah. Good... good point, Jim. Other agenda items? Okay. Uh, potential urban
backyard chicken ordinance is the next item.
Potential Backyard Chicken Ordinance (IP3 of 7/20):
Markus / And uh, Doug's coming forward, but I would say that basically where we're at is as a
staff we think that we can craft an ordinance that can both permit and control this issue in
our city. Um ... we've gone through the Cedar Rapids' ordinance, um ... my compliments
to Cedar Rapids. I think they did a pretty thorough job with that. We may want to
suggest some other controls in our community. Uh, the most, urn ... probably the most
different would be that we would give, urn ... property owners adjacent to the site that's
asking for a permit for backyard chickens the opportunity, and maybe even a sign -off,
um, that they, uh, agree and it's approved, which may seem like, um, a burden for the
person that's asking for this permit, but I would also say that they're the ones most likely
to feel the impacts of something like this and so we thought that this is, you know, you're
bringing what we currently term a `farm animal' into an urban environment and we're
saying, yes, you can permit it. It seems to be happening around the country for lots of
reasons. Um ... but we think that this is a case where maybe giving the adjacent property
owner, uh, some say might actually smooth the process in the long -run. It may actually
create a better neighborhood situation, and the other thing I would say to you is, when
you do end up with conflicts in these situations, um, it's going to be the City staff that's
going to end up being the mediator. So ... I think in a lot of these situations, we're going
to know right up front if we're going to have that neighborhood kind of conflict, and let's
deal with it right up front. I£ .. if the neighbors suggest that maybe it can be moved, and
the other neighbor, you know ... maybe those accommodations can be made right up front.
Other than that, Doug, you have any...
Boothroy/ Well I think you're exactly right. My experience is that if...if you get the abutting
property owners involved in the discussion, uh, they'll see what the standards are; they'll
see what the performance standards are; uh, they'll have a conversation with the person
proposing it. Uh, both sides will be, if there's opposition, they'll be educated as to what's
going on. There'll be some assurances that, uh, if a nuisance gets established, uh, the
City can enforce the regulations to ... to, uh, eliminate that nuisance. So I think it gives
assurances to the neighbors. It also gives assurance to the people that are, uh, raising the
chickens, uh, that they have a permit and they know what the standards are and they
know what they have to do to be a good neighbor. So, um, I think it's the best thing to do
in terms of giving notification, and it's not unusual. I've looked at a lot of ordinances.
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Ann Arbor, Michigan, for example, requires, uh, contact of...of abutting neighbors. I
think the Cedar Rapids' ordinance does too.
Champion/ I don't object to it. What happens if the house is sold or somebody (both talking)
Boothroy/ These are ... these are a temporary use permit. They go with the, uh, property owner,
not the property. So the ordinance is crafted such that ... that it doesn't (both talking)
Champion/ No, I mean ... if the neighbor that said it was okay moves, and then that neighbor that
moves in doesn't want the chickens.
Boothroy/ Well, I think that's... that's, they move to that situation.
Champion/ Okay.
Boothroy/ And the only way ... once the permit is ... is issued and the inspection's done to ensure
that the standards are being complied with, uh, as long as they comply with those
standards they can renew the permit.
Champion/ Okay, okay.
Payne / And it would be a yearly inspection, is that what you were proposing?
Boothroy/ An annual inspection, that's correct. That's... that's pretty common as well.
Markus/ One of the things that we picked up in ... in terms of the inspections in Cedar Rapids,
they told us that, you know, if they would have run through the process right up front in
the permitting that they probably could have avoided a lot of the complaints that they
received subsequently. So, I think with an initial sign -off with the neighbors and our
going out and viewing the sight initially, that might help the situation.
Dobyns/ So, sign -off means a neighbor would have veto power.
Boothroy/ Well not necessarily. I ... I think it's ... I think that's something that we have to talk
about, but at least notification and involvement, so the people ... I mean, I think there are,
there could be restrictive covenants that we're not aware of. So I think it's important that
the neighbors are notified. They could bring it to our attention, because we ... most of
these ordinances do respect those type of issues, so ... or it could be in some situations, uh,
a consent form is required, like I mentioned here with the Ann Arbor (both talking)
Dobyns/ Yeah, I'm comfortable with notification and discussion, but consent.
Markus/ I'm ... I'm actually advocating for consent.
Boothroy/ Right. I'm just saying that there's a whole ... in almost every ordinance they require
notification. Some require consent, and I think that's what we go through Planning and
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Zoning Commission with and ... and we intend to meet with, uh, representatives of
ICLUCK to talk about these issues. So I don't think we have to resolve those tonight, but
those are things that we need to talk about in terms of what works and (both talking)
Dobyns/ Well, I don't want to send this to Planning and Zoning, well ... it depends on the ... what
my colleagues think (both talking)
Boothroy/ Well we're here to find out, yes.
Dobyns/ Yeah, but I ... but I'm comfortable with consent. I realize that it's always a good idea to
get the neighborhood to talk and get ahead of the issue before it becomes a problem in the
neighborhood and then they come to City staff for adjudication. And so I get that, but the
consent seems unprecedented to me.
Markus/ It is unprecedented, from what I understand of our ordinances; however, it's
unprecedented to introduce farm animals into an urban environment like this, and in my
opinion, I think this is one of those cases because of the conflicts between those that
support and those that are opposed, I think it forces people to go and have those
discussions right up front, with the people most directly impacted by these situations, and
I think ... this is one of those rare places where I would recommend something like that.
Um, beyond just notification.
Throgmorton/ I'm with Rick on this, uh, despite what you said, Tom.
Markus/ I understand.
Throgmorton/ I think notification, just like we talked about with regard to the cafe thing, uh, by
email, urn ... I think it's important to be able to get other people involved but I don't think
the neighbors should have veto power over the ability of somebody to do something that
would otherwise be permitted, uh, so I ... I'm in (both talking)
Dobyns/ Cause, Jim, I don't like the way you painted your house and I don't like your dogs.
And I don't think I should have the opportunity, um...
Throgmorton/ You don't like Maggie? (laughter)
Dobyns/ Sorry, and so I don't want to ... why should I have veto power over that? I mean, I ... I
can see why this is trying to engender good will and, you know, functional discussion. It
just seems ... too unprecedented to me, and you know, if the passage of, you know,
backyard chickens fails because of it, so be it, as far as I'm concerned.
Champion/ I ... I don't like the idea of the veto power either. I'd like to veto every dog that
comes into my yard, I mean, I think you can go ... I mean, I don't think these chickens are
going to be as much trouble as most people's dogs! They don't make a lot of noise, I
don't think. I don't know. I've never had chickens in my backyard.
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Throgmorton/ Well they don't bark!
Champion/ They don't bark!
Hayek/ It seems ... but you guys, it seems to me this is a bit of a ... this conversation's a bit
premature. I mean, what ... what we're asked for here tonight is the go -ahead for staff to
pursue with input from P &Z and the stakeholders, if you will, um ... and ... and uh, craft
something that they bring back to us.
Champion/ Fine! Do it!
Hayek/ I mean, there's clearly a ... a, at least a couple of perspectives on that particular issue that
we'll have to get through at the appropriate time, but that would be one of numerous
regulatory aspects of this.
Markus/ That's right, and ... and we will involve the ICLUCK, we will involve P &Z. The
recommendation will come back. You can have those discussions. What we're really
trying to determine this evening is ... is there enough of a consensus to pursue it further.
Your vote comes later. (several responding)
Hayek/ I think the answer to that is yes.
Dobyns/ As long as P &Z is informed by our discussion that we just had in their considerations.
The more they think about this is the part of the (mumbled)
Boothroy/ Well, Rick, we would ... we would meet with the stakeholders of ICLUCK prior to
going to P &Z so we'd have their input, and then all of that input, if there is a
disagreement, would be, uh, presented to P &Z so they'd know if...what the differences
are, if there are differences. Um, and then ... that'll become part of their record and it'll
come forward to you. So, uh, when I met with Melrose Avenue vendors, you know,
we ... we had this conversation and we weren't all on the same page, but... but... but
we ... we gathered infor ...staff gathered information from them that helped us craft the
ordinance so that it was better. Uh, we didn't always agree on everything, but at the end
of the day when it got to P &Z we were pretty much on the same page. So I think ... I
think it can work.
Payne/ But the process is the next time we discuss it it's going to be to approve an ordinance.
Boothroy/ It'll be a recommendation from P &Z to approve an ordinance (several talking)
Champion/ Can always change it!
Payne/ At a formal meeting.
Boothroy/ Right.
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Markus/ Well the recommendation may come back that they don't support...
Boothroy/ Well that's true too!
Payne/ Or ... yeah, that's true! It just seems like this is the time to have an informal discussion
about... (several talking)
Dobyns/ I ... I think it's a (mumbled) an ordinance I like, but this (mumbled) being inserted it...
into it, to basically make me vote it down. And I ... and that's a problem with me. And I
thought this was a time to discuss it.
Champion/ Well I'm willing to look at the arguments both ways, so I don't want to say I'd vote it
down if that comes in.
Markus/ I suspect that there's a creative solution some place in between too.
Boothroy/ Yeah, I think we need the help with input in that process (several talking) before we
get too far along on this discussion.
Hayek/ I mean, I think you embark on the process cognizant that there is a divergence of opinion
on this issue at the Council level and you know...
Champion/ see what they come up with.
Hayek/ ...see what they come up with and ... and you know, full knowledge going forward.
Boothroy/ There will be people that will be opposed to it, period, as well as those who support it.
So it goes, you know (several talking) there will be a different opinion. (several talking
and laughing)
Hayek/ Okay.
Boothroy/ Okay? So I, do I hear that you want us to move forward?
Hayek/ Yes (several talking)
Boothroy/ Okay. Thank you.
Proposed ChanEes in East Side Loop Bus Route:
Hayek/ Okay. Next item is proposed changes in the east side loop bus route. Mr. O'Brien!
O'Brien/ (several talking away from mic) Yep!
Karr/ (mumbled)
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O'Brien/ Okay, um, brief presentation, um, on some changes that we have for the east side loop,
P.M. route. Um, east side loop route was a route primarily set up as a tripper service to
assist with, uh, capacity issues we have with east side routes when ... when school's let
out. Um ... due to the ... the capacity and the number of people all exiting a few places all
at once. Um ... there were some ... some issues raised um, over time, and some of those
issues we've listed here, um, and especially in the last 12 months, we've ... we've seen
these issues come to a head, uh, and that is the timing at stops. Um, as you can see what
the arrival times were at... at uh... Southeast Junior High was at 3:42, with a release time
of 3:20. Uh, City High was a arrival time of 3:48 with a release time of 3:15. So there
was a large gap in, uh, when the departures from those schools were and when the actual,
uh, bus arrived to pick up to take, uh, to their destinations. Uh, in addition it was a length
of time on the bus. Um, a majority of the users, um, that utilize that service were on well
over 30...25 minutes, some, uh, extended into 35, 40 minutes, depending on where they
boarded and where they got off. And the other was our... our areas of service, um, and
that there was no service west of Sycamore Street, um, and so, in looking at some
changes to the routes, there were ... there were these three were kind of the three primary
issues that we wanted to address. Um ... the A.M. route, for the most part, we ... we hadn't
had any complaints about it. It was more the P.M. route with, uh, as far as picking up and
dropping off. Um, so some of the changes that we, sorry. That probably helped you guys
a little bit. My apologies. Urn ... some of the changes we proposed were to reverse the
direction of the route in the afternoon. Um, the way we had it set up before is it followed
the same route as the A.M. Um ... and the release times ... the release times are Regina
release first, then City High, then Southeast, but we were picking up Southeast, then City
High, then in the Regina area. So it was throwing the lengths of time ... the length of time
all out of whack with when we were picking everyone up. Um... and you can see that
...the other change was a change to the arrival times of the stops. Uh, City High arrival
time is now being changed to 3:25 versus 3:48. Um, several things this addresses. One
is, um, obviously the long duration of waiting time. In addition it actually is the first bus
to arrive at that location. Um ... currently we have a Court Hill bus, uh, that ... that goes by
that location, that gets there ... um, just after 3:30 on the in- bound, downtown at 3:45, um,
this bus will be the first one there, which will help alleviate some of the pressure from,
uh, from the Court Hill route, allowing people to board that and ... and to go to their
destination. Uh, the arrival time at Southeast will be 3:32 versus 3:42. Um, and all of
these will cut down on the waiting time that's... that's at those bus stops, and that was one
of the ... the big issues that we wanted to address.
Throgmorton/ Chris, can I interrupt for just a second.
O'Brien/ Absolutely!
Throgmorton/ I ... I don't know how much material you're going to cover so I don't know how
much I can hold in my head in terms of questions, you know...
O'Brien/ Sure! Fire away!
Throgmorton/ ... do you have a lot more to do or...
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O'Brien/ Nope! I have ... this is, this slide and then a map and that's it.
Throgmorton/ Okay, well go ahead and finish up then.
O'Brien/ Uh, we do have an additional route that's going to serve City High. Currently our east
side express route, um, we do not allow that to stop before it gets to Friendship Street,
outbound on Court Street. Uh, we're going to allow that to stop on the outbound, um, in
the area near the Morningside, um, intersection with Court so that, uh, anyone who wants
to board that to get out into the Windsor... Windsor Ridge, and over to Rochester can
board that, versus riding the ... the actual east side loop route, which may take longer to
get over there. Um, and that's a change that we're making, uh, effective this fall. We're
also going to extend that ... the east side loop to Broadway Street. Um, using Taylor,
Sandusky versus cutting off on Sycamore Street and heading back to Sycamore Mall.
Uh, so that we can dip down... dip down into that neighborhood further and pick up
anyone who would like to utilize the services, and we feel that we can do a better job of
promoting the route and educating users as to, uh, the route and the changes we made,
and... and ... um ... the benefits of utilizing that, as far as the duration of time that they'd be
on the bus. And then here's the proposed route, which is almost identical to the A.M.
route. Um ... the route actually will flow ... will flow this way. It'll go into service at
Regina, come down past City High ... over by Southeast, and then it'll time out to where
it's there about ten minutes after release times at each of those locations, across the
board. (mumbled)
Hayek/ Yeah, east is up! (several talking)
O'Brien/ Oh, I'm sorry!
Hayek/ That is Iowa City (several talking)
O'Brien/ Um, and then when it gets to Highway 6, uh, and First Avenue it will take a left, head
out to Lakeside Drive and go through the same as a... as a Lakeside route would go
through, so reutilizing those same stops. Uh, before it circles back around, down to
Broadway Street, uh, and then it'll head up, um, head east to Scott Boulevard and loop up
through the Windsor area and then back over to Rochester. So it's really just ... the A.M.
and the current east side loop that we run, just in reverse, uh, which I ... we think helps the
timings, um, the length of the route is the same. We're serving the same people. Uh, we
just think we're providing a better service level for everyone.
Champion/ And so then the people who ... take the bus to Windsor Ridge, they could also get on
that other...
O'Brien/ They can get on the east side express route.
Champion/ And also (both talking)
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O'Brien/ ...anybody that lives over in the area off Rochester could also board that route.
Champion/ I think it's a good solution! I like the fact that the time is being crunched in. (several
talking)
O'Brien/ Yeah, that 20 minute waiting time was ... was certainly a ... a flaw.
Throgmorton/ I ... I guess I ... I have three questions, Chris.
O'Brien/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ Uh, one is, uh ... who has complained?
O'Brien/ Um, I think there was ... there were several complaints from users, from parents, about
the lack of knowledge of the bus service and um ... I think there were several articles that
talked about the ... the length of time that ... um ... people had to spend on the bus in order
to get home in the evenings. So there were ... there were several.
Throgmorton/ Okay. Uh, second, um, question has to do with Southeast.
O'Brien/ Uh -huh.
Throgmorton/ Um, you're compressing the amount of waiting time at the, at Southeast or near
Southeast. I don't remember where the bus stops near (both talking)
O'Brien/ The bus stop was on ... was on First Avenue, uh, directly in front of...of Southeast.
We're actually moving that stop to where it now is at William and Bradford, so almost
right out their front doors is where we're going to stop now, and we've actually moved
the location so that it's closer.
Throgmorton/ I only ask because I'm wondering if it might create a challenge for students
leaving the school, leaving the classroom, and then going out and, you know, getting
there in time to meet the bus.
Champion/ Oh (several talking)
O'Brien/ ...which is why we moved it...it closer and it's the same, I mean, the 20 minute time,
what we saw was, there were kids that were, especially at City High, were boarding our
outbound Court Hill bus, which gets there at ... just around 20 after the hour, and they
release at 3:15, urn ... and then they'll ride the outbound Court Hill outbound, down
Friendship, come back in, and ride it then all the way downtown, and it's still there well
before our east side loop bus even got near that stop. They would actually get all the way
downtown, uh, the Court Hill would get downtown and depart for the outbound Lakeside
before the east side loop route arrived in front of the school.
Throgmorton/ Uh, my third is not really a question; it's more of an observation.
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O'Brien/ Just ... I have one ... (both talking) we actually have spoken to ... City High, Southeast,
and Regina about the timings, um, and they were all comfortable with ten minutes, seven
to ten minutes is what they were asking.
Throgmorton/ Okay. Good.
O'Brien/ Apologize for the...
Throgmorton/ Um ... my ... my third point really's not a question. It's more a ... more of what I
would think of as an observation. It sounds to me, without knowing the intricate details,
that this is connected to the committee we just created, or just appointed members to.
Um, half an hour, 45 minutes ago. Uh... and so, you know, because the purpose of that
committee has to do with transportation and has to do with, um, law enforcement. So...
am I misreading the situation? Is there not a connection and shouldn't...
Markus/ I think you could make a connection.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, so...
O'Brien/ I certainly think it'll be a discussion point. We just felt there were some things that
needed addressed. Prior to ... for this fall... upcoming fall.
Dobyns/ You know the way I looked at it, Jim, was that what happens with this will be
information that this ad hoc committee can use to deliberate on transportation and issues
of diversity in the larger sense. So I thought it was, you know, um ... uh, affirming and
helpful. Synergistic rather than redundant.
Throgmorton/ Uh -huh.
Mims/ Yeah, I'd rather ... I mean, if you see something that can be improved, why wait. And,
certainly cutting those waiting times down for some of those kids that ... it's an easy way
to get in trouble, I mean, if you're just hanging around (both talking)
O'Brien/ ...it's actually an easy ... it was an easy solution, we felt.
Champion/ I'm really happy with it. I think it's a great idea to cut that waiting time down.
Mims/ I would assume, Chris, that you're going to try to work with the schools between, in terms
of education and information for the students and their families.
O'Brien/ We've had (both talking)
Mims/ ...the City can do and the School District can do.
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O'Brien/ We're putting together pamphlet information to send out to all of them, to get out to all
of the...
Mims/ Okay. Great, thank you!
O'Brien/ Yep.
Markus/ Jim, I'd ... I'd also say that I think it's helpful to have this in place before the school
year.
Mims/ Yeah.
Markus/ Rather than after the start of it.
Throgmorton/ I would agree with that!
Markus / And, again, I think ... I think one of the Councilors mentioned that you can evaluate the
impact at some point, as well, so ... and I don't think the ad hoc committee, and I'm not
suggesting you were recommending it, but if we deferred it to the ad hoc committee, they
wouldn't be able to get it ... they wouldn't get to it before the school year started.
Throgmorton/ (several talking) Yeah, I agree.
O'Brien/ Yeah, we might be looking at next fall before that was something we could implement.
Throgmorton/ Thanks, Chris.
O'Brien/ Yep!
Hayek/ Okay. Thanks, Chris. Next item is, uh, proposed changes to the sidewalk cafe
ordinance, including use of parking spaces, agenda item number 8.
Proposed Chances to the Sidewalk Cafe Ordinance (Including use of parking spaced
[Item 8]:
Fosse/ Well on the agenda tonight is the first reading of an ordinance that deletes most of the
requirements for sidewalk cafes, and that ... that's the first step toward converting to an
administrative approval process for sidewalk cafes. So at the August 21St meeting, uh,
will be the second and possibly the third reading for this, and ... and with that will be
accompanying a resolution that defines the parameters for the administrative approval.
So in a sense it'll be the Council policy on which the administrative approval will be
based, and uh, at that same time, what ... what we want to do is ... is look at some
procedural changes, uh, or excuse me. Along with these procedural changes we want to
look at some opportunities to expand, uh, sidewalk cafes for cafes in the Central Business
District, and we're going to look at two specific areas. One is allowing sidewalk cafes
within parking spaces, and the second is to allow sidewalk cafes that are not, uh, up
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against the building, uh, that is they have a walkway between the building and the seating
space, similar to Giovanni's or the Saloon that are in the pedestrian mall now. Currently
those ... those types of settings are restricted to the pedestrian mall and ... and the question
is, do we want to create those opportunities outside the pedestrian mall. Uh, so the intent
of the schedule is to have everything in place at the August 21St meeting for this
conversion and perhaps the new opportunities, if you're on board with those, so that those
...they could be implemented at some of the, uh, businesses in time for football season,
cause we've got a couple businesses that are ... that are interested in that. So we really
have three objectives for tonight. The first is, uh, make sure that you're on board with
that conversion from, uh, Council approval to an administrative approval for sidewalk
cafes, and then secondly, do you want to look at these additional opportunities and if so,
the third thing is to ... to define those parameters for those new opportunities. So with that
let's ... let's uh, lead off and ... and first discuss that first question. Our staff sense is ... is
that you all would like to move this to an administrative approval process is that ... are we
on track there? (several responding) Okay. That's good. That was the easy one! Uh,
the next is we'll ... we'll look at the use of parking spaces, uh, for sidewalk cafes and...
and Jim Mondanaro was in a few weeks ago and... and shared some ideas about a vision
he has for the ... for the Micky's area. Uh, this is the way it looks today and ... and this is
the ... the ideas that ... that he has presented, and it includes this physical link out to a
sidewalk cafe that uses both the sidewalk and a parking space out there. This physical
link is something that's required by state law and that's... that's a one of a number of
ways that they can accommodate that. Uh, so what I'm going to do now is ... is go
through some of the parameters that staff would recommend be considered for these
types of applications, and ... and I'll be following along with the, uh, the memo that was in
the packet, and we're just going to go through in that order and look at those, and ... and
I'll point out that ... that staff s recommendations are starting on the restrictive side for
something new like this, until we ... we have some experience with it, and uh, develop
some comfort level, similarly to the way we started with sidewalk cafes back in the mid -
1990s. So the, uh, oh, I did want to point out that ... that um, there ... there are examples
elsewhere where this is being done. I think this one is ... is in Birmingham and uh, I
apologize for the low resolution image there. Just grabbed that off ...off the internet.
Um, so let's go through and look at some of those parameters that we're recommending.
And the first one is ... if a business has enough space, uh, for a conventional sidewalk cafe
where they can have at least 120 square feet, and this is an example of 120 square feet
here where they can seat about eight people. They can't go into the street and use up
parking spots. Um, and what I'll do, I'll go through. There are eight parameters here and
then we'll ... we'll go back and make sure you're on board with each of those. Give you
some time to digest them as I'm looking at `em. Uh, the second one is, uh, the sidewalk
cafe must have the consent of the adjacent building owner and first floor tenant on both
sides, and ... and part of that is ... is that parking spots just don't line up with property lines
out there. So there's going to be some ... some overlap and ... and, uh, on either side
and ... and we're also taking parking spots away that serve businesses on either side, so...
consent of adjoining property owners. Uh, in no instance will the sidewalk cafe extend
across 50% of the adjacent building. So in ... in Micky's case, it would be limited to
going no further than here on the ... on the south, and here on the north. Again, that's
cause the parking spots don't line up exactly. You're going to get some spillover on
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either side. Uh, when you look at a total block, and all the sidewalk cafes that are
considered for that block, uh, we want no more than 30% of the parking spaces used for
sidewalk cafes. So ... we hit that 30% mark, there's no more opportunities within that
block. Otherwise we're just taking away too much parking.
Throgmorton/ Rick, could you stop for a second.
Fosse/ Sure.
Throgmorton/ On the previous slide you showed Micky's and Masalia right next to it. What
happens when there are two adjacent facilities, both of which might want to do this?
Fosse/ Well the, uh, that's where the consent comes in from the neighbor, cause whoever
considers it first will need to consult their neighbor and get their consent if they're going
to extend past that property line.
Markus/ The possibility exists that ... they could actually run a joint, uh, facility outside, and so
that's one of the reasons to get that consent, uh, right up front, because you could end up
with a ... a facility where they're... where they're both serving, uh, clients in that
environment, and both taking responsibility for it. So...
Dobyns/ At the same table! (several talking and laughing)
Markus/ I mean there's ways ... there's ways to divide that up, and ... you know, we ... we ... we can
get to a point where we overdiscuss the regulation of these things and kill the whole idea,
but ... um, these things can work.
Fosse/ So we have the 30% restriction for the total block, um, we would not consider loading
zones for sidewalk cafes. So if you're the Sports Column, for instance, that's not an
opportunity that's available to you because it's a loading zone in... in front of the
business, and the same is true to commercial loading zones. Um, these are very in high
demand, especially since we went to two ways on Washington Street there. We ... we
went to a lot of work to move those around and keep `em in convenient places. Um...
there needs to be a 4 -foot buffer on either end of ... of the seating area, and that would be
included in that ... that total area that's considered for the ... the sidewalk cafe. Again, this
is a picture from another community and it shows that buffer area. In this case they're
using it for bicycle parking. That might be something that we consider there, but that's
just so that people when they're maneuvering in and out of parking spaces don't bump
the sidewalk cafe. Uh, we would look at a different season than we have for our regular
cafes, sidewalk cafes. Our regular sidewalk cafes go from March 1 to December 1. Uh,
we'd need to look at...be...because of...of snow it does, uh, regularly occur in March,
we'd probably look at startin' April 1St and ... and also, this is something that ... that came
to us, since we're writing the memo, is ... is we need to look at all the other events that we
have downtown and how those events might impact, or be impacted, by the sidewalk
cafes, or the ... the street cafes. And in the case of the bike race that we have every April,
uh, there may be select locations where we ... we would not allow setup until after
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Riverfest and ... and the bike races. That's usually around the middle of April. Uh, but so
the ... the, uh, beginning would be on April, and the end would go through the last home
football game.
Payne / Rick, that was there I had my question on number seven. It says and must be taken down
by the last home football game weekend.
Fosse/ Oh it...be after the last home football game.
Payne/ So you're going to change the word `by' to `after' or something?
Fosse/ Yes. Thanks for pointing that out.
Payne/ I ... I mean, I figured that's what you meant, but somebody could interpret it differently.
Fosse/ Yes! Thank you!
Hayek/ Once again Payne earns her keep! (laughter)
Dilkes/ Michelle, these won't be the actual...
Payne/ Words.
Dilkes/ ...words. Yeah.
Payne/ Okay.
Fosse/ Yeah ... we're just hoping to agree in concept (several talking) Yep, and ... and now we're
(both talking)
Payne/ ... somebody take it down before the Nebraska game, you know. It might not snow yet!
(several talking)
Fosse / And let's talk about the fees for this. There are three components to the fees and we'll use
this concept drawing just to visit about it. If there's a portion of the sidewalk cafe that's
just sitting on the sidewalk, but it is removed from the building, that would be at our
standard rate of $5 per square foot. If it's on a platform, whether it's on the sidewalk or
out into the street, then it's at $10 per square foot. Excuse me, and that's a per season
rate so dollars per square foot per season. And then if you're out in the parking area, you
need to pay for that parking, and ... and that certainly will be the most expensive
component, and that's $12 per day throughout the full period, and I want to point out that
the ... the rates for sidewalk cafes have remained fixed since its inception in the mid -
1990s, and even back then it was acknowledged as a bargain, uh, but part of the rate
structure was that this is something that we wanted to encourage in our downtown. So
if...if there's anything you want to do with the rates, now might be the time to do that
while we're ... we're having these discussions. So ... with that overview of...of the, uh,
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sidewalk cafes that would ... that would go out into the parking areas, is there anything
you heard that ... that you would recommend that we do differently or would like to
discuss in more detail?
Throgmorton/ I ... I have two questions basically. Uh, one is, h, have you thought any about
people with disabilities, various disabilities, how they might or might not be affected by,
uh, construction of... of these kinds of, uh, sidewalk facilities? I mean, parking space
facilities. You don't have to answer that right now. I just ... I think that would be (several
talking) Yeah, and then the other thing has to do with the con... email conversation Tom
and I had, uh, basically has the downtown SSMID been involved in, uh, deliberations
about this, and what do they think about it, and then what do other business owners in the
downtown area think about it, if they're not on board with whatever the SSMID thinks.
Fosse/ Yes! Geoff Fruin met with ... with, uh, some of the members of the SSMID. Put out an
invitation and a few people took advantage of the opportunity to come in and talk about
that, and uh, help me out here, Tom, if I don't characterize it accurately, but there's...
there's acceptance to the concept, but there's some caution as well, and they would like
to just see how this plays out, recognizing that these permits are for one year at a time.
Markus/ You may actually see a representative from SSMID tonight. I sent you that email and
...and Karen indicated that one of their committees was meeting today. She wasn't sure
if they were going to have somebody show up this evening or not.
Throgmorton/ I ... I see that Leah is in the office, I mean in the room! (laughter) I don't know if
she ... is going to, you don't have to answer. I don't know if you're going to be the
spokesperson for the SSMID or not, yeah ... so...
Dobyns/ Rick, there was one picture of the, uh ... from Birmingham, Michigan. It just seemed
that there was just far too little room.
Fosse/ Oh, that's something I want to talk about later. So yeah ... we'll come back to that. That's
a good question.
Dickens/ I guess looking at it from me being a downtown business person, the parking bothers
me, uh ... even though it's a block or so away from our store, that affects us because
people, there's still a big problem with parking in ramps. As much as we hate to say,
ramps are great and we try to get people to do `em. A lot of our customers complain, and
every time there's another space lost, that's another customer lost for maybe not just us,
but a lot of other people downtown, um ... I know I had the people from the Sports
Column. I don't know if they came and...
Markus/ They called me.
Dickens/ They came in, or called ... they came in and visited me and they said, well, you know, in
front of their street used to be parking meters up until last fall I think it was, or I don't
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know when that changed. It's been a year ... I don't remember when it was ... do you
remember when it was done, Chris?
O'Brien/ That was actually multiple years ago when we switched those over to a ... to loading
zones.
Dickens/ Yeah, I don't remember exactly. I know they looked into doing this at one time and...
were told that they couldn't do it, and that was even before the loading zones. So I know
they've talked to Tom about it. That was one of the concerns is, you've got somebody
right across the street that can do it and you're saddled with the loading zone there, so...
and then the rate increases, why do we wait so long to increase rates? I know we were
trying to promote the ... the cafes, but it looks like a lot of things we're putting off a long
time. We should maybe get on a regular... little closer to a regular schedule where we
can bump things up.
Markus/ That's true with all the fees and we've built that into our (both talking)
Dickens/ Okay.
Payne/ So, I have more of a I guess maybe general question and it plays off the rates is ... let's say
the Council had already passed doing the administrative thing. And somebody came with
this idea. Would it still come to the Council?
Champion/ Oh yeah!
Payne/ Or would it be part of just written into the administrative code?
Fosse/ Well, the ... the administrative code will define the parameters for the cafes that we can
approve, and if a concept that comes in is outside those parameters, staff cannot approve
it. So it would need to come back to this body. Is that accurate, Eleanor?
Dilkes/ You ... you're going to adopt ... you're going to adopt a resolution that has the basic
parameters in it.
Payne/ Okay.
Champion/ Cause right now we vote on every little renewal thing. Um...
Payne / And also in the same sense then if... staff deems that the fees should be raised would that
come to us, or would it just (several talking) Okay.
Markus/ The ordinance is the enabling legislation. Resolution establishes the details and the
administrative reviews and some of the (both talking)
Payne/ But we're getting rid of the ordinance and putting it all in the...
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Markus/ You're getting rid of parts of...the ordinance.
Dilkes/ You're getting rid of a lot of detail in the ordinance, and you're putting them ... you're
going to adopt them by resolution. That means when you want to change one of those
regulations, we only have to do one resolution. We don't have to do three readings of an
ordinance. Um, but you need to adopt the resolution to give staff guidance about what's
acceptable to you and what's not.
Markus/ You'll still (both talking)
Payne/ The ordinance allows sidewalk cafes and ... then the ad ... administrative code of the City
...is where all the detail is.
Dilkes/ It's not an administrative code. It's a res ... it's a resolution adopted by you which sets
the standards that will guide staff in administering the granting of sidewalk cafes. In
other words...
Payne / And maybe I'm saying administrative code, but I mean it's the ... rules of the City. I
mean, maybe it's semantics here with words but it's words that I got out of our packet.
Administrative regulations, okay. But it's not...
Markus/ We can't amend those as a city staff. Basically it's changing it, as Eleanor suggests,
from a legislative process to an administrative process.
Payne/ Okay.
Markus/ In terms of dealing with all the details. That's the difference. It ... it makes it much
more ... it expedites the process ultimately, and once you've decided as a policymaking
board that this is a good thing for the community, it just removes all of the additional
details (both talking)
Payne/ My biggest question was is ... what ... what can you do administratively without Council
approval?
Markus / What...
Payne/ ... evers in...
Markus / Whatever is in that resolution is what we're authorized to do, and if we ... if there is
something outside the scope of that resolution, we need to come back to the Council,
have the resolution amended; if the Council so desires, to add or subtract.
Payne/ Okay. Perfect thank you!
Champion/ I have a couple things, um, I like the idea. By the way. Um, I like it. In the years
that I've been making these decisions, I have found that people are reluctant to ... to like
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anything new or anything different, anything that they might not be able to do. And my
whole idea is, let's go for it. It's not in concrete. You can always get rid of it. But I
think it sounds like a great, positive thing to do. So I don't like the business about
consent of the landlord or the person who owns the building next store. Heck, they might
live in Hawaii. What do they care? And I don't like the idea of the tenants because they
change all the time too. And ... I ... I think it's a great opportunity to do something
different in Iowa City, and not... don't be afraid of change. Most people are afraid of
change, and everyone that I've talked to is against this. Well, I can't do it, why should
they be able to do it? And ... that to me is just petty nonsense. The thing that I like about
it is it's something new, it's forward, it... it helps the downtown, coming in on Dubuque
Street's going to look a lot better with that cafe there. Um ... I say let's try it! And if it
doesn't work you can always not renew the ... not renew the permit. But don't be afraid
to try it! And I like the idea of the joint use of these. I think that could alleviate some of
the problems. Parking, I think there is some talk, and I ... I can't swear to this about
converting a couple places that are even commercial zones that aren't used into actual
parking spaces. So ... I just think that I don't want this Council to get hung up on a few
individuals who don't want anything to change. That ... I'd like to look to the future, and
how can we change things for the better, and... and try it. Don't be afraid to try it! I
mean, look at the people who objected to ... anything we do. I mean there's always
people who don't like what we do. I generally like what I do!
Hayek/ What I suggest we do, and this is an agenda item tonight and so we can get into more
discussion about it, but we're running out of time on our work session. Are there any
more questions for Rick, cause we need to move forward here.
Fosse/ Okay, I've got the other opportunity. I'll go through that quickly?
Hayek/ Yes!
Fosse/ Okay. And the other opportunity that we're looking at is ... is, uh, allowing sidewalk cafes
to be removed from the building if you will, uh, similar to what is done for Giovanni's
and the Saloon, to take advantage of this space out here, get the pedestrian traffic back
along the building, and perhaps move in to some of the planters that are along the streets,
as well, and uh, Bo James has brought this up. That's why Leah's here tonight. This is
an opportunity that ... that she is interested in. Uh, again, it would take some sort of
physical link out there. This is the way they accomplish it at, uh, the Saloon and you saw
in the concept with the lights overhead for ... for Micky's. Uh, that would need to be a
part of that. Um ... in the ... in the pedestrian mall area, at the City Plaza, uh, we allow it to
go out onto the brick area like in front of Giovanni's and that just goes straight out from
the property lines, or in the case of the Saloon where, uh, they're utilizing the planters,
uh, that does go in front of other businesses because of the way the planters are ... are
spaced out there, and ... and those are questions that we need to ask ourselves, uh,
for... for these situations here, as well. If we allow the sidewalk cafes to be, uh, removed
from the building, if you will, to use this space out here. Do we want to limit it to strictly
the area in front of the building, or if it goes into planters, do we want it to go elsewhere?
Or, can they use sidewalk space in front of other buildings? Those are...
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Dobyns/ So instead of the tree, you would have diners. Instead of the mulch ... next to the tree,
we'd have diners? Right there.
Fosse/ Yes. Yes.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Fosse/ So there would be a ... a uh, a fenced off area out here and essentially this sidewalk cafe
would be moved out there.
Champion/ Right.
Fosse/ Yep.
Mims/ I would just ... I would support staff looking at that. I've seen that used very effectively in
the ... it actually's in the ped mall in Burlington, Vermont, but they have a lot of their
cafes and restaurants, their outside eating is set out a few feet from the building so you're
pedestrians can walk right along the si... store fronts. Um, and the eating space is set out
a little ways and it seems to be very effective.
Hayek/ (several talking) On that you're looking for...
Fosse/ Yes, and ... and thank you, Sue. Sue Dulek is with me tonight. She's reminding me that
we need to pin down the building line issue, and let's use this slide to talk about that. So
let's ignore the part that's in the street right now and just assume that there's a sidewalk
cafe that is removed from the building. Do we want to limit that to strictly to the
property lines? One end to the other, or do we want it to allow ... allow it to go in front of
other buildings, perhaps with the consent of those properties? That is, that it might go
over to here, for instance.
Throgmorton/ Well I don't see how you could extend that without consent of the other... business
owners.
Markus/ That was the basis for putting that (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I mean ... I just can't imagine how you'd do that.
Dobyns/ But it engenders discussion, collaboration, and partnership!
Fosse/ There you go!
Mims/ Yeah, I mean, I would agree with letting it go in front of the others with consent (several
talking)
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Dilkes/ I ... I think ... (several talking) I think there's three issues with consent. Number one, do
you need consent if you're in a parking ... if you're taking up the parking space and the
parking space extends in front of another business. Number two, do you need consent if
you are extending onto a planter that is front of another business, such as, um, the Saloon.
And then the third question is, if you are simply on the sidewalk next to the curb, rather
than next to the building, but if it extends beyond your, um, boundaries, do you need
consent. So we're talking about three different situations, and when you need consent
and when you don't.
Fosse / And we have precedent on that second situation, uh, in the instance of the Saloon we did
not require consent from the other properties for them to ... to occupy the planter area.
Champion/ I'm not for consent at all. I'm for just doing.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I ... I ... I'm enthusiastic, as well, for all sorts of reasons, but I believe in
process pretty deeply, so I think it's really important to involve other people in the
deliberation about this. So one ... one thing has to do with a point that Terry made
and... and that is, I meant to walk around downtown today and... and look at the store
fronts and estimate how many spaces would be involved. I didn't do that, so I have no
idea really how many parking spaces might be affected by this action. I'd like to
know ... before I vote on this particular (both talking)
Markus/ But one of the provisions is no more than 30% on a particular block. Of the parking
spaces could be forgiven (both talking) and not every block is eligible for this to occur
because their sidewalks are adequate to house one on the street ... on the sidewalk to begin
with.
Throgmorton/ Also (several talking) oop, sorry!
Dickens/ ...Clinton and Dubuque are about the only two that don't have a big sidewalk so...
Mims/ To Rick's and Eleanor's specific, the three specific ones, I ... I guess my position would be
not requiring consent for the planters. Okay? Um, I... if it's set away from the building,
along the sidewalk, you know, away so it's detached from the building, so to speak, I
guess I would suggest not requiring consent and I don't know if this gets too technical for
the regulations, unless an adjacent business is also a restaurant. And ... and I don't, or do
you just say, you know what, first come, first served? Whoever asks for the (several
talking) asks for the permit first.
Champion/ It might be a restaurant in a week or it might not be.
Mims / And I think where we're talking about the ... the parking spaces, I guess I wouldn't see the
need for consent there because, again, you're limiting it basically to three parking spaces,
it sound ... I mean, a 30 %, isn't that roughly going to be ... didn't something say three? I
mean, is there, on those blocks, is there typically about ten parking spaces?
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Fosse/ Ten to 12. Yeah.
Mims/ Okay. So you're going to be limiting it to about three parking spaces. I wouldn't have a
problem not requiring consent there.
Hayek/ What's staffs' opinion on consent?
Markus/ Well, we had this discussion, and I'll confess I'm the, uh, consent king (laughter) um...
Champion/ I guess you don't like these cafes!
Markus/ No, well ... my experience (several talking) with these, and ... and, Connie, I was glad to
hear you talk about everybody gets excited about these things. I had all sorts of
reservations before we implemented it in Birmingham, and now you know they're all
over the place and people are pretty happy with `em. My recollection is, we restricted it
to the frontage of the building. And, I think we had a little bit of spillover that may have
been allowed for the, you know, for the four -foot margins on each end, but the problem
with just letting it go, I mean, how ... how far do you let that go? I mean, it has to have
some limit, I mean, can they have, you know, 30% of the block? Is that okay? Let's
go ... how far do you want to let `em go? And, it seems to me that the adjacent property
owner, you know, has some stake, you know, like the old shop keeper that used to go out
and sweep the sidewalk in front of their ... their particular store. I think there is kind of a
connection there when you talk about pushing these things out in front of the neighbor,
and the other ... the other thing that happens is, these places change regularly. So now
you've preempted another possible restaurant that may have wanted this from going into
that location. I think it hurts you economically (coughing, unable to hear) viability of the
other business. That's why I advocate for consent. It gets people to talk. It gets `em to
talk before we go ahead and issue a permit, and somebody comes back in here and gives
you all sorts of grief for why we allowed that to happen. So yeah, I'm an advocate for
that. It forces people to get together and talk. Now, I said earlier on chickens that maybe
there's some creative process in there. Maybe there's some, you know, cause we're
going to have to have a hearing officer for the chicken ordinance anyway, just like we do
for the dogs and the cats. Uh, maybe there's some way that that could be appealed if in
fact one of the neighbors does, you know, object, and see if we can't pull `em in and see
if we can't arbitrate some sort of conclusion, and the hearing officer has an opportunity
to ... to resolve it, but um, those ... you know, I'd rather deal with those conflicts up front
than after we've issued permits. And so ... that's been my experience (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...move ahead. I'll make one very short statement here. Uh, I'm inclined to favor
this. I think it would really be good for the downtown, uh, but I hate making decisions on
the fly. Uh, I don't like coming in and have ... having material in ... in hand for just a few
days and then having a brief conversation and then deciding, uh, and then later on finding
out that people are upset. Just ... just in the sense that you just said, Tom, about ... you
know, connecting with nearby property owners. So, what ... what I think ... what I would
want to do is defer for two weeks, and then make a decision two weeks from now.
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Mims/ Three weeks! (several talking)
Hayek/ ...almost a month.
Mims/ Yeah.
Fosse/ Well what...
Dilkes/ I...
Fosse/ Go ahead.
Dilkes/ The ordinance, Sue, correct me if I'm wrong, but the ordinance it simply, um, removes a
lot of the details from the current ordinance and that detail, whatever you decide that
detail will be, will go into the resolution that you adopt on the third reading. So, there's
really no ... assuming that you are in favor having sidewalk cafes... approved
administratively, in accordance with the parameters you set, then there's no reason to
defer, um, the first reading of the ordinance.
Throgmorton/ Okay. So ... so then the way it gets ... is placed on the resolution...
Dilkes/ Right.
Markus/ The details are yet to be worked out and yet to be delivered to you, and plenty of
opportunity for you to still deliberate that (several talking)
Dilkes/ Now, the schedule is that if we want to get this all happening before football season, then
the ... August 21St is going to be when you have to decide what those parameters are
(several talking) cause the recommendation will be to collapse on the 21 St
Throgmorton/ All right, so it's important to have other people fully informed about what we're,
what would be included in that resolution. And, give `em a chance to give us some
feedback.
Markus/ Just one more comment. Make no mistake about it, Connie's right. People are going
to, even after it's all done, and you know, that's... that's one of the things I've seen
repeatedly throughout my career. People, they try to refine these ordinances and
resolutions so tightly, and these things are kind of living documents. They all evolve.
We'll have to respond to different circumstances as ... as they occur, but...
Fosse/ So, as far as what we draft for two weeks, or for the 21St, uh, as far as consent, we would
do it for the parking spaces, but not for the planters or for the ... the sidewalk cafes.
Hayek/ I don't know (several talking)
Mims/ ... only one that said it so (several talking)
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Fosse/ Oh, okay!
Hayek/ I'm inclined to follow Tom's recommendation on consent, personally. (several
responding)
Fosse/ Okay. (several talking)
Markus/ ...less rigid about the planter one, personally.
Mims/ Yeah, to me you've got a set planter that's already there. So that's kind of one of the
things (both talking)
Dilkes/ I think staff's recommendation is with the exception of the planters you would require
consent (several talking) And I think there is a distinction between...
Mims/ ... defined area already by where the planter is.
Hayek/ Okay.
Fosse/ Okay, let me wrap up very quickly on ... on Rick's comment about the ... the spacing,
and ... and Iowa City has always maintained an 8 -foot clear passage. We regularly get
requests to reduce that, and where you see where it has been reduced, it...it is a little tight
and-and given the amount of pedestrian traffic that we have, uh, we don't recommend
going to less than 8 -feet, but you may hear requests for that. I just wanted to point that
out.
Throgmorton/ This is connected to the point about people with disabilities. Gotta be able to pass
through there without slamming into something. (several talking)
Fosse/ Got that 5 -foot minimum that's required for ... for that.
Markus/ And these facilities just so you understand — we had a pretty thorough discussion about
Americans with Disabilities Act requirements. These will be, uh, accessible, even though
parts of the building may not be.
Payne/ I have one more question about parking and ... handicap parking spaces.
Fosse/ Uh -huh.
Payne/ Would you allow one of these in a handicap parking space, and then move it to another
spot? Or would you just say, if you have a handicap parking space, no.
O'Brien/ It depends on what other infrastructure's there in order to ... if you have a ramp built in,
it may be difficult to remove a space to allow for it. So we'd have to review that, I think,
as we go on. Um, certain spaces, uh, we have some that are the parallel spaces that are
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easily moved. Some of the diagonals already have the ramps built into that actual space
and it may be a little bit more difficult so ... we'd have to review, but ... I think in some
cases yes, and in some we'd have to review that.
Markus/ Chris, just while you're up there. Maybe you want to mention that we are working on
some strategies in terms of getting people to feel like the deck is the better option.
O'Brien/ Yeah, there's ... (both talking) we have a lot of...a lot of things that we've been
discussing with ... with some downtown businesses and internally about ways to ... well, is
it safe to say completely overhaul our entire parking system, from decks to on- street to
loading zones to ... so, and I'm not ... we're not talking, we're talking big, big changes to
how we do things, so ... there's a lot in the works and you'll see things come across here
in the next, um, there's a lot of things we're putting in play. You've seen a lot of the
projects coming through that have been setting this up, but ... there's a lot of stuff coming
so...
Champion/ And I have to give your group credit for willing to make changes. You made a lot of
changing, a lot of changes over the past couple years and you're not afraid to make more,
and I really appreciate that. Thank you.
O'Brien/ Thank you.
Markus/ There's a way to incentivize more use of your decks, and we're studying all those and
trying to come up with the right fit for Iowa City, to get people into those ... into those
decks. And the reality is, those individuals that tell you that it doesn't feel safe to go in
the deck, the more people you get in the deck, the safer it feels.
Information Packets (7/12, 7/19, 7/26):
Hayek/ Okay here's what I want to do. Um, let's jump over the boards and commissions issue
and just, uh, take up the remaining bullet points quickly. If there's time we can touch
upon boards and commissions. If not, we'll bump it till after the formal. Um, which
brings us to the Info Packet discussion, uh, if any, regarding the three packets. The first
is July 12th. Anybody got a... issue, question, or concern regarding that one? Okay. July
19th. Okay. July 26t .
Throgmorton/ With regard to IP7, uh, the multi -use parking facility. I completely understand
the, uh, desire to defer action and so on, so ... uh, not going to raise any questions about
that. Uh, but in terms of the ... the new RFP that goes out, uh, I ... I would hope that it
would contain guidance and clear ... clear objectives with regard to energy efficiency, and
ideally, with regard to (mumbled) being built into the design of the building. There's a
huge opportunity there waiting for us, and I think we need to seize it. Uh, at, you know,
you've probably had conversations about that. You can bring me on board about it.
Davidson/ Yeah, we'll definitely bring that RFP back to you. I think another, you know, real
central issue that from our negotiations that we had, you know, for the past several
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months will be the notion of at least some student housing, uh, in the private part of the
residential part of it, because that seems to be a pretty consistent theme in the developers
that we've talked with that they wanted to see at least some student housing, and you
know, we're going to need guidance from you in terms of...is that something that you
know ... how does that then influence the ... the notion of, uh, city financial incentives on
the project, and not anything to get into now, but just to have it in your heads, because
12 ... well, probably 10 or 11 months from now we'll be getting back into that with you,
and we'll want some ... we'll want some guidance on that, and that's the opportunity, Jim,
for you to bring up the other issues.
Hayek/ Thanks, Jeff!
Mims/ Chris, I just had a real quick question on the, related to that same one, with the
reassessment of the existing parking demand. Uh, just kind of curious how that changed
so significantly.
O'Brien/ As far as the demand numbers, a lot of those were deferred projects. If you're talking
about the actual number of (both talking)
Mims/ Yeah, you had a waiting list of about (both talking)
O'Brien/ ...several factors over the last couple of years that have come into play that have ... have
reduced that ... that number. I think moped parking is one that's been ... huge. We're at
...400 permits now that we have issued (several talking) for mopeds, uh, bicycle use is
one, um ... we have ... uh, I think a lot of changes in downtown that have caused there to
be, uh, less need maybe for vehicles to ... to park. Uh, so there are a lot of factors, um,
another is...uh, being much more diligent and keeping that list active.
Mims/ Okay.
O'Brien/ You know, before we may have had 200 on there and ... 40, 50 of `em may have, um,
have dropped off, and then with Court Street becoming as popular as it has with some of
the University uses. 550 permits in that. Swan's got another (mumbled) there's almost a
thousand between Chauncey Swan and ... so that's a lot, and those are highly turned over
spaces. Um, so those are some of the factors that have come into play.
Mims/ Okay, thanks!
Hayek/ Anything else on, uh, the info packet for the 26 th? .
Dobyns/ Can we talk about the KXIC after... after the public session? I mean, I know we're
running out of time.
Pending Work Session Tonics:
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Hayek/ That's fine. I mean, assuming we need to. All right, why don't we jump to Council
time. Anybody have any ... Council time items? Okay. Pending work session topics.
Throgmorton/ I do have one ses ... one proposal. I ... I would love to see, uh, staff give us a status
report on our city's effort to mitigate, uh, against climate change. Mitigat ... take
mitigation measures. More importantly, uh, what we're doing to adapt to climate change
that seems, uh, fully in process. A status report.
Hayek/ Get some sort of a memo, I mean, I know we do ... I recall seeing things in the last couple
of years. Something... staff could respond to on that?
Markus/ We'll look into it!
Hayek/ All right, thanks! Okay, um ... should we do KXIC real quickly?
Champion/ Sure!
Throgmorton/ I'm going there tomorrow.
Dobyns/ I was wondering I'd like to, uh, I had some ... I'd like to change mny September 19th to
September 5th, and ask if I could do October 24th and December 12 ?
Karr/ I'll put those in future. Let's deal with August through September.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Karr / And I'll take Dobyns off of the 19th, so we've got Throgmorton the 1St, and Dobyns
September 5th.
Hayek/ I can do the ... I can do August 8th.
Dickens/ I'll do the 15th.
Mims/ I can do the 29th
Payne/ I can do the, uh (mumbled)
Karr/ I have August 22nd, the 11 th and the 19th.
Dickens/ I can't do the 15th
Payne/ I'll do September 11th
Champion/ Are you talking about September or August now?
Karr/ I've got August 22nd and September 19th
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Dickens/22 nd ... I'll do the 22nd instead of the 151H
Champion/ I can do either one.
Karr/ Okay. Terry, you don't want the 15th then?
Hayek/ How `bout Connie for the 15th? (several talking) Stn Hayek, 15th Connie, 22nd Dickens,
29th ... what was that?
Mims/ Mims.
Karr/ Mims. 5th Dobyns, 11 Payne, 19...
Dickens/ I'll do it.
Karr/ Dickens.
Dickens/ Since I missed this last ... (several talking)
Hayek/ Okay?
Karr/ Thanks!
Hayek/ ... get those out (mumbled) (several talking) Okay. (several talking) Let me ask ... I
think that's it. Um ... (several talking) Do ... if, depending on how much people want to
talk about these boards and commissions, this ... this issue. We could spend like literally
two minutes on it, uh, make short shrift of it, or save it for after the formal, but otherwise
I want to give people (mumbled)
Mims/ I'd rather not do it after the formal. Personally.
Hayek/ My sense is that there's not a whole lot of, uh evidence to change what we have in place,
with the possible exception of Youth Advisory.
Champion/ Okay, so let's talk about Youth Advisory.
Dobyns/ My recommendation, I'm going to recommend that we dissolve the YAC, um, I think
that it could be better served, this population, instead of having a group that's looking for
a charge, we can wait for a charge and then go find a group.
Champion/ I totally agree with you. I've thought that for quite a while (several talking)
Dobyns/ Like you did with the ad hoc committee. Uh, with this particular group, because of the
constraints and (both talking)
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Champion/ It just has not been real popular. We've always had trouble filling positions. It's
kind of like ... trying to find something for `em to do. I think that's ... I totally agree with
you.
Dobyns/ And I've talked with educators. I talked with Ross Wilburn, who was my predecessor
on (mumbled)
Payne/ So then what committee are you going to be on? (laughter)
Dobyns/ I'm on a committee with (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ We'll figure that out! (laughter) Jim, you had...
Throgmorton/ No, I thought it was very fruitful to see the survey, and..and I suspect the
commission members appreciated being asked, uh, the questions that were addressed to
them. And when I read their responses, two thoughts came to mind. Uh, one of which
you may have already talked about before, and that is maybe we should permit non-
residents to serve on the board of appeals, given their particular charge. And the second
is, it might be wise to ask certain, uh, commissions to have joint meetings with other
commissions once a year. I think in particular of, uh, P &Z and Parks and Rec. Or
Housing and Community Development and P &Z, or the PCRB and the, uh, the Human
Rights Commission. To give `em an opportunity to ... to share insights about their own
experiences during the preceding years. So, anyhow, that ... that's the suggestion I get,
uh, after reading through the surveys. Survey responses.
Dobyns/ And I have a concern is that, um, I mean, there is a bias with this survey is that the
people that filled it out, the people have already agreed to the constraints, um, I think
that ... there should be less (mumbled). Some options available for people who want to do
two years. Because ... I mean, I think there's a lot of people who like to serve less time
still want to serve the community but ... just, um, and that (mumbled) getting volunteers
and going, and still (several talking)
Hayek/ Let's ... let's do this. Let's take a 10- minute break. We're not going to resolve this now.
We'll take it up a little bit after the work session, um, or after the formal, um, and decide
what we want to do. This is clearly some ... there's some questions here. So ... okay.
(BREAK TO FORMAL MEETING)
Hayek/ Okay, so, uh ... as you may recall, we were talking about ... boards and commissions.
(noises on mic)
Dobyns/ I had a discussion with, uh Tom, on ... during our interim, um, my concern about boards
and commissions I think has been satisfied by our thinking about having ad hoc
committees. Um, I think it's important to go after a different, um, demographic, who is
very willing to volunteer, and the four -year commitment of current boards and
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commissions I think is problematic for that. However, I think given that we have a new
philosophy regarding, um, using ad hoc committees, short term, can go after this potential
source of volunteers, that perhaps would not participate in current boards and
commissions. So ... I've sort of changed my concern, um, that I, uh, spoke about at the
end of the work session.
Champion/ Some commissions aren't four years. Some are longer. (noises on mic) For one
thing, Planning and Zoning it takes you two years ... to learn...
Payne/ Or more!
Champion/ Or more, I mean.
Dobyns/ Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah.
Champion/ I would never do Planning and Zoning. City Council's a lot easier! Ask Michelle!
Payne/ I do find it interesting that the ... not required by state law, city boards and commissions
are the ones that are typically full, but the ones that are required are not full.
Hayek/ I was thinking about that, as well, and it makes perfect sense, because they're there,
because the community wants them to be there (several talking) and they're thus popular,
and that's why you don't have vacancies.
Karr/ They're also the shorter terms.
Hayek/ No offense to the, uh, airplane flyers in town but there's just, you know, not that many of
`em! (laughter)
Dobyns/ In regards to the Youth Activities (Advisory) Commission, um, Marian mentioned you
know one of the reasons deferred was the fact that, um, City staff is going to bring back
some statement that we can take a look at, you know, in terms of how we would utilize,
you know, high school youth and further deliberations for us to consider. So they have to
articulate some things that's...
Karr/ I think what Marian said is we'd have to have a resolution to ... (laughter) to um...
Payne/ Disband?
Karr/ Disband the Youth Advisory Commission.
Dobyns/ Disband.
Karr/ But Marian could add to that resolution those items. (laughter and several talking)
Champion/ Who's Marian? (laughter)
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Dobyns/ I stand corrected.
Karr/ No, so that is the intent, that you wish to have the resolution on ... disbanding.
Dobyns/ I intended to intend what (both talking)
Karr/ Is that what you wish to do?
Dobyns/ Yes (several responding)
Hayek/ Jim, you had mentioned a couple of things. I just don't want to give short shrift to that.
One was requiring an annual meeting between certain (several talking) yeah, you do
actually. We're on ... we're still on tape.
Throgmorton/ Uh, let's see, one of `em was that, uh, it seemed to me that maybe some
commissions could be authorized or instructed to have joint meetings with other
commissions, say once a year, and I suggested three possibilities that came to me as I was
reading through the survey responses. One was the PCRB and the Human Relations
Commission. Uh, second, uh, involved the ... the uh, Planning and Zoning Commission
and uh, Housing and Community Development. The third involved Planning and Zoning
and Parks and Recreation. Cause there's s much overlap, not overlap. So many (both
talking)
Dobyns/ ... a recommendation from our ad hoc diversity committee too. I mean, that would be
within their range of discussion.
Hayek/ Might be.
Dobyns/ I mean, the diversity, that's one thing they could...
Hayek/ I guess I ... I would want to think about that. I'm ... I'm worried about the burden that we
already place on people who volunteer for those things. There may be some merit, but
...and I'm willing to think about that. Maybe revisit it.
Dickens/ Just a quick question on the Youth Advisory. When does their terms usually start? Is it
start of the school year, is it...
Karr/ We ... we have changed that a couple of times, but um, let me check here. I think it's,
um...
Dickens/ ...lot of people when they get on, as soon as they're thinking of heading to school,
that's it, and they're on.
Karr/ These ... these are a calendar year. Calendar year (several talking)
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Hayek/ Okay, so .... go ahead.
Throgmorton/ I did have one other suggestion that I had brought up briefly earlier. It had to do
with the Board of Appeals. And, uh, and I think Council's talked about this before,
but ... but you know the possibility, the suggestion is maybe it would be wise to permit
members of the Board of Appeals to not be Iowa City residents, because of the trades
involves in the Board of Appeals.
Champion/ (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ Well then you'd be voted down 6 to 1 so ... (laughter)
Payne/ I'm with Connie.
Throgmorton/ I don't know. I don't have strong views but...
Hayek/ I'd be willing to think about that more. I guess I'd want staff input and (several talking)
um, what does that open the door to, what other considerations, I mean, I get it. You live
outside of here but you got a business downtown or whatever in the city, um...
Mims/ But certainly my first preference is residents, I mean, it ... I think there'd have to be a
couple of caveats to me that one, you couldn't find a city resident of that profession that
you needed and then maybe we would consider (several talking)
Karr/ I think the other thing that staff, through the years has ... has indicated is, we have a lot of
boards and commissions, and when we have different restrictions or different availability
(several talking) residency requirements, it sends a different message so for one person to
apply for this one, and they can't apply for this one or they can't apply for this one ... or
it's a different application for this one. It just... sometimes it can be very confusing and
intimidating, and it's just one thing to consider, is the message to recruit volunteers. Now
certainly you could do it much like you do the gender, is you could set a time frame and
after that point if it ... if the vacancy is not filled, then you could advertise it again, but
that is one thing we hear a lot about is why is one board different than another.
Hayek/ But I mean ... the consistency issue is ... is something we ... we need to take into
consideration. I mean, you can be a... you could live outside of the city limits, have a
business in Iowa City and want to serve on the Board of Appeals, but you could also live
outside of Iowa City and have some ... some part of your life or your professional relevant
to our other commissions and want to serve on those, and so where do you draw the line,
that's what I would struggle with. So, yeah! (laughter) Why don't we just continue to
give some thought to this but not do anything specific in...
Karr/ We'll go ahead with the Youth Advisory for the next time only.
Champion/ You're such a diplomat!
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Hayek/ Okay, are we okay on this? All right. I think that's it, and we are adjourned, and go
home!
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