HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-08-21 TranscriptionAugust 21, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Dilkes, Karr, Sandberg, Bentley, Fruin, Dulek, Scott, Knoche,
O'Brien, Fosse, Hargadine, Elias, Moran, Davidson, Boothroy, Jordan
Others Present: Uttermark, UISG
Sidewalk Cafe Ordinance (Items 12 & 13):
Hayek/ Welcome everyone to the work session! We're pretty tight on time this afternoon, uh,
and so we're going to shift things around a little bit, and as I understand it we're going to
take up the sidewalk, uh, street cafe issue right now and then ... pick up something else
after that.
Fosse/ Well what we want to do tonight at...at the work sess ... session is to, um ... basically
prepare you for the ... to vote on the, uh, items tonight, Items 12 and 13, and to do that
we're going to give you a quick refresher of what we talked about on the 31 st of July and
provide you updates and refinements that have occurred since then, and then answer your
questions, and this has been a team approach on pulling this together so we'll have a
number of us fielding questions. Uh, Geoff has been working with some of the outreach
of the downtown businesses. Tom has experience in other communities with this, uh,
Sue helped with the drafting of everything and... and uh, Marian can help explain some of
the options for ... for voting tonight and ... and ramifications of collapsing and not
collapsing and ... and impacts on schedule and that sort of thing. So, uh, basically we
have two items on tonight's agenda. Item 12 is the second consideration of an ordinance
that converts much of the regulation of sidewalk cafes to administrative rules. Uh, there
...there are certain key elements that are going to remain governed by ordinance, uh, but
most of it's going to be covered by administrative rules, and you do have the option of
collapsing the second and third readings tonight, and we may talk more about that later.
Then Item 13 is a resolution that establishes those rules, and uh, this resolution is
contingent upon the third and final reading of... of the ordinance proceeding that Item 12.
Uh, the objective of the changes we talked about, uh, last time is to streamline the process
for future changes that'll enable us to be more responsive as new ideas occur, and then
also at the same time we're introducing two new opportunities for sidewalk cafes. Uh,
the first is out in the streets and parking spots, and then the second is within planters that
are outside City Plaza. Currently, uh, the use of planters inside City Plaza are already
permitted. Um, we've heard strong opinions on both sides of this. Um, some don't think
we're change... taking the changes far enough. Others think, uh, that we're changing it
too far. Um ... this ... this, these changes have been on the fast track, and for some it's not
fast enough. For others it's moving too fast. Uh, from a staff perspective it ... it's been
moving fairly briskly. Um ... we're getting a lot of `what if' questions about specific
locations, and uh, something we've learned throughout this process is no two storefronts
are the same. So there's no limit to the number of what if questions that you can ask, and
as a result, the conclusion we've come to is there's no complete set of rules that you
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can ... you can define that's going to get at all the what ifs. So instead what we've
attempted to do is ... is to define the parameters that establish an overarching framework
for this, that we can work within. And then as we gain experience, this will no doubt be
tuned up and amended over time. Urn ... what I want to do is ... we went through this in
some detail at our last work session, and I want to share with you the specific changes
that have occurred since then. And then we'll dive into your questions at...at that point.
Uh, first thing I want to do is clarify with regard to the contiguous requirement, and I'll
use the, uh, Saloon here as an example. That is only required for establishments, uh, that
have a liquor license. So if you have a non - abutting use of a sidewalk cafe and you don't
have a liquor license you don't need to put in that ... that, uh, contiguous element. Um...
sidewalks, or excuse me. Cafes and planters, be it inside the City Plaza or outside the
City Plaza. What we're doing is ... is requiring that they be within at least eight feet of the
property line. See if I can get my mouse here ... so for instance with Bo James. Here's
the property line here and the planter they want to use is over here. So it ... it's got to be
within a certain distance, and ... and the reason that we've done this is to ... to maintain
that certain proximity to the business and where that's particularly important are for those
businesses that do not have a liquor license, cause they don't need the contiguous
element. So without this restriction they could conceivably use a planter that's a block
away, and we really don't want to do that. So that's...
Throgmorton/ Rick, uh, do you mean that the start of the planter has to be within eight feet?
Fosse/ Correct.
Throgmorton/ Even though the rest of the planter could be, I don't know, 14 -feet away (both
talking)
Fosse/ Or further! Yep (both talking) yep. That's correct. Um, we also wanted to make it clear
that even if we get a request for the use of a planter, the City doesn't necessarily have to
honor that request. There ... there are planters that ... that we really want to keep as they
are. Nice trees in `em, nice plantings. We ... we may simply say no on that. So I want
...want everybody to understand that that's... that's what's proposed in there. Um... also
if you want to occupy a parking space in front of another property, uh, that the consent
from the adjacent property owner and the first floor tenant would be required. Now that's
different from what we discussed at the work session, uh, a few weeks ago, uh, but that's
what we landed on based on discussion with staff here. That's our recommendation is
that to occupy a parking space in ... in front of an adjoining property, it does require that
consent. And ... and we'll talk more about how much of the spaces you can occupy in just
...just a minute. Uh, we have fees added for the bollards. And those were not discussed
at last time, and we ... we did discuss last time about raising the fees, and what we're
recommending at this point is that we leave the fees as they are until the budget process,
and then we'll adjust them at that point. All the square foot fees and ... and that sort of
thing. Um ... and then there are a couple changes that occurred after the packet was pre
... presented ... printed last Thursday and I want to talk about those, and they have to do
with the, uh, with the three -year preference after the first issuance of a permit, for those
sidewalk cafe ... excuse me, cafes that are in the parking spot or a planter, and ... and
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where that's relevant is let's use this block face as an example. If we have, uh, a couple
sidewalk cafes there that consume that 30% maximum that we've proposed as ... as the
most that you can convert in any one block face, that locks other ... other folks out. And
...and so what we're trying to do is ... is introduce an element of ..of fairness in there so
that other people can get an opportunity at that, while at the same time, uh, providing
some element of protection of investment, uh, because it's ... it's going to take some level
of investment to build the platform to put out there. So what we're saying is that, uh,
once you ... once you establish a platform ... you still need to reapply every year. There's
no guarantee that we're going to grant it every year, but what ... what we do say is if
there's... there's competition for space that for at least three years after your first issuance
you're given a priority there. Did I say that right, Eleanor? It's kind of complicated
there. But it's...
Hayek/ You ... you mean you get it the first year and the next two years.
Fosse/ Correct!
Hayek/ Okay. I think that's an important clarification.
Fosse/ Yes. Thank you. And we want to take the same approach for the planters, because
they're a limited resource and ... and the similar distinction of the planters is, is they may
end up partially or fully in front of another business. So we want to have that same three -
year preference in there. And that preference goes with the business, not with the
property. So we wanted to make that distinction. So...
Dilkes/ Let me just a clarification. So what that means is that if...if a business owner has that
preference and they sell to another entity, that preference doesn't go with it.
Fosse / What I wanted to do here is just give you an overview of ..of the four types of cafes
and... and whether or not they can extend beyond the property lines. We've got the
standard sidewalk cafe we've been permitting for years. They cannot go beyond the
property line. Uh, cafes with non - abutting seating areas. Uh, right now Giovanni's is our
only example of that, uh ... and those also cannot extend beyond the ... the property lines
extended out there. And incidentally, those are permitted outside the City Plaza area. It's
just nobody has ... has taken advantage of that out there. Uh, cafes in planters, which are
new. That's proposed this evening. Uh, you can extend in front of other businesses, but
the planter must be within eight feet of the building line extended, and it's subject to the
three -year lottery. Uh ... (unable to hear person away from mic) Oh, okay! I'm sorry...
this ... trying to remember which button you press here, Marian. Auto (mumbled) there
we go! Thank you, Marian ... or Eleanor, for pointing that out. And then the cafes in the
parking, uh, yes they can extend in front of a ... a neighbor's business — we'll talk about
that in more detail. Uh, with the property owner and first floor tenant's consent, and
that's also subject to the three -year lottery. Now the specifics of that is that if...the ...the
parking spots do not line up with ... with property lines and if you have a spi ... a space
that's partially in front of your business and partially in front of the neighbor's business,
okay, you can... you can put seating area and consume 100% of that area in front of your
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business and then put the ... put the bollards — that is that buffer area — in front of the
neighbors' businesses without consent, but if you want to extend seating for that
remainder of that one parking spot, then you need the consent of the neighboring property
owners. So it's only when you extend seating area in front, and it cannot go (noises on
mic) beyond distance of that remaining space. Now you can consume all of that
remaining space with seating area and the buffers would go in the space beyond that, but
the important thing to remember is that ... that you're buying that entire parking space that
the buffer's going in, whether you have seating there or not. So if it's consumed by the
buffer, you're paying the ... the daily fee for that. That sound fairly accurate, Sue?
Eleanor? Okay. At this point, open it up to questions, uh, that you have for staff. It's...
Dickens/ I guess my biggest concern is the parking is ... that that parking space in front of that
building doesn't just service that one building. That services all the downtown. We've
got, from figures I've heard, with 60 spaces downtown. You take two or four on
Dubuque Street. You've lost those. I did not realize that when we put in the Zipcars that
there was going to be four... reserved parking spaces for the Zipcars, and really great
locations up on Iowa Avenue and on Linn Street. So suddenly out of those 60 spaces, if
my numbers are correct, you've given up 10% of our on- street parking. So I ... it seems
like all the businesses downtown are not benefitting the same from ... you know, giving
this — yes, they're paying for that space, but that space is supposed to be for all the people
that come downtown. So that's... that's where my argument comes in.
Fosse/ Yes, and ... and that is certainly fundamental to the entire concept of what is proposed here
tonight. So that's... that's a decision that we'll need to encounter.
Champion/ I think parking is always a concern for merchants downtown, but I pointed out today
to a couple people that, um, Micky's which has been totally ... is being totally remodeling
has been occupying five parking spaces for construction for over six weeks. And I asked
Jan, and I asked my daughter — it has not affected our business. It has not decreased our
business. And that's five spaces that've been gone for six weeks or longer. So I think
that's an important consideration. I find that most of those parking spaces on Dubuque
Street — I don't know about your street — are usually taken up by business owners that go
out and plug the meter. So I think the important factor is here, I think the Downtown,
um, District is really working on the parking and trying to educate people about the
ramps, so the parking — even as a business owner — is not a concern of mine for that very
reason. It has not affected my business having six spaces gone.
Dobyns/ As a person who utilizes downtown as a consumer. I don't own a business down there.
It's ... the decision to go downtown is based on not what annoys me. You know, a
problem with parking. It's what attracts me. Um ... and so I like all these iterations
because it increases attractiveness and the incremental deterioration of on- street parking,
I don't think offsets the attraction that it affords. Um...
Throgmorton/ I'd express a similar view, urn ... I ... in general I'm a proponent of this. I think it's
a good idea and I'd like to move I that direction, but my big concern has to do with
existing business owners and the ... the extent to which they fully understand the ... the
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implications of this particular proposal, uh, how it'd play out over time, how it would
affect their businesses, uh, and so on. So, my question to you, and to other staff members
I suppose is, have you — I don't mean you personally — but have you convened, uh, a
meeting with affected business owners in the downtown area, or the affected area
anyhow, to, uh, explain what's proposed, ask them to pose questions, respond to the
questions, etc. You know, have ... have you gone into that det ... kind of detail (mumbled)
...of course I've talked with Rodney, uh, of Pancheros on the phone (mumbled) so I
know his particular point of view. I don't know what other peoples' point of view are.
Uh, so ... what's your answer to the question?
Fosse/ I think Geoff can field that. The (both talking)
Fruin/ Yeah, I'll jump in on that one, Jim. Um, we have not gone door to door talking with
individual business owners. What ... what we did when this first came up in July, I sat
down with the appropriate committee of the Iowa City Downtown District, laid out the
concept to them, invited them to offer feedback. Uh, a couple weeks after that I put out
in a... an email or a call to all the board members. There's roughly 20, 25 board members
on the Iowa City Downtown District, and said we're going to be set up here at City Hall;
feel free to come in and we'll explain to you about the, uh, sidewalk cafe, or the street
cafe issues. Uh, we had four people take us up on that, that came in to ... to learn more
and to ask questions. I met with the Downtown District, uh, again, committee again
today and uh, other than that I haven't put out any kind of calls for, um, open house type
situations. We've been contacted. Rick's office and my office, probably... maybe half a
dozen businesses, uh, some are supportive; some had questions; and some were very
much against it. So, um ... that's about where we stand on the public outreach.
Payne/ The people that were against it, why were, you know, did they give you reasons, I
mean...
Fruin/ Sure.
Payne/ ...was it parking, was it it's not fair, was it, I mean...
Fruin/ Yeah, peop ... as we've heard the discussion here, people value parking differently. So
some are just opposed to giving up parking. Others are opposed to being able to extend
into the storefronts. Uh, people have raised concerns, um, with the ... the visibility, um,
even if... even if these don't extend in front of storefronts, as you're driving down the
street, it could be a distraction from a business and you may not be able to see a sign or
... or something, um, and then fairness has come up quite a bit. How do we give people
equal access to this opportunity and if we are to move forward at this time and allow
businesses to move forward at this time does that, uh, constrain another business from
doing it, you know, next year or two years down the road. So, in general fairness has
...has probably been the biggest question or concern.
Champion/ But that's been addressed with the three -year renewal thing. The fairness issue.
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Fosse/ If there's competition for the same space. I ... I think part of the fairness that they're
talking about is ... is just taking from ... from the available pool of parking spaces for all
the businesses downtown. Which ... which you were getting' at, Terry.
Throgmorton/ Are ... are there some businesses that would not be able to take advantage of this
partic ... particular, uh, proposal because of where their business is located relative to
existing parking and planters?
Fosse/ Yes. The ... if they are adjacent to (both talking) loading zone for instance, uh, we're not
recommending that loading zones be used as ... as cafe area.
Hayek/ Well let's do this. Instead of...if there are more questions, let's pose them, but if we're
trying to convince each other now as to what to do, we just don't have the time right now,
and ... and, um, I can tell you ... I want to tell you where I am on this. Uh ... uh ... I ... I'm
generally supportive of it, urn ... except for one part of it. Uh, and ... and the reasons are
that I ... I ... the consent is there, at least on the street cafes, and that's critical to me that
you ... that you obtain consent from your neighbors. Um, and ... and the lottery is ... is
another compelling factor to me. That ... that, uh, although we ... we give some deference
to the investment made by somebody who gets one of these, it's not ... it's not something
...it's not forever and you ... you go back into the mix and other businesses who are
interested get a ... get a fair chance at it as well. Prob ... the problem I have with this as
proposed is that the planter, um, cafes don't require consent from neighbors, and I'm
having a very hard time distinguishing between requiring consent if you're taking up
space in front of a business that happens to be in the parking right -of -way vers ... but not
if you're in a planter that's blocking ... in the example given, several... several businesses.
I have ... I have a problem with that, and maybe there's a good explanation for that.
Dulek/ The explanation was I thought that was the direction we got from Council.
Hayek/ I know. (several talking and laughing) But ... but you got that from a majority of the
Council and it's just ... it's a problem I had with it then and ... and that I have now. So...
that's where I am. Are there any other questions we can get answered, uh, on ... on this?
Dickens/ Is there a reason we're moving so fast on ... I know they want to get it done for this
football season, but has everything been vetted to all the downtown? Apparently not all
the businesses have been asked, and yet we're supposed to be moving forward with this
and having a second reading on it so I guess ... that would be a question — do we need to
move this fast?
Fosse/ That is the balance. We do have a couple businesses interested in being ready for football
season, uh, versus the ... the outreach that we've done, versus what can be done.
Champion/ And maybe when we have this discussion at the regular meeting, the Downtown
District can respond to that.
Hayek/ Yeah. (several talking)
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Payne/ I have... sorry, Jim. I had one more question. When it's con ... the consent is only
for ... who you're in front of, the parking spaces your building's... the, it's in front of,
right? It's not the whole street.
Fosse/ That ... that's correct.
Payne/ So if there's 11 parking spots on the street and I'm going to use three of them, nobody
else on that street... that's 30 % ... nobody else on that street can have one, but I only need
consent for the ones I'm in front of.
Fosse/ That's correct.
Payne/ Okay.
Hayek/ Jim?
Throgmorton/ I ... I was just going to say in the ... in the spirit of disclosing intentions, um, I'm
strongly inclined not to collapse readings. I ... I would ... I strongly inclined to have...
make sure that, uh, affected business owners have ample opportunity to influence, uh,
the ... the policy we generate, uh, as a matter of fairness. And, I'm not convinced, despite
what Geoff said about the outreach that's already taken place, but there's enough of that
that's, uh, actually occurred. So, uh, I'd be very, personally, very hesitant to collapse
readings.
Dobyns/ We've been discussing it, what ... we first heard about this in June. It seems to me
we've been discussing this for a couple of months, but I lose sense of time (laughing)
Champion/ Well I'm sure everyone downtown knows about it.
Dobyns/ Yeah, I... okay.
Hayek/ You've been through two weddings. It's okay! (laughter) Or one!
Dobyns/ Whatever! (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay! Thanks, uh, and why don't we move on. Why, um, I think what I want to do
next, we're ... we're going to take up the Planning and Zoning matters at the formal. Jeff
Davidson already offered that. Why don't we see what questions there are regarding
agenda items, and then we're going to pivot to the ... um ... to the other, to the fourth and
fifth things on the bullet points. Yeah, so are there questions from Council on, uh,
agenda items? That's ... uh, of utmost importance to answer.
Agenda Items•
Payne/ I had two questions.
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Hayek/ Okay.
ITEM 3d(11) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN
AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST LICENSE AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND WEST LIBERTY
TELEPHONE COMPANY TO USE CERTAIN PUBLIC RIGHTS -OF-
WAY FOR THE INSTALLATION, OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE
OF A FIBER OPTIC NETWORK.
Payne/ The first one is on, um ... Item 3d(11) which is the agreement with West Liberty
Telephone, and this is probably more of a question for Eleanor on the agreement itself
and how we write agreements. There's five things in there that talks about the things that
they have to do, like when they apply for their, um, their right -of -way permit to dig in the
right -of -way. We don't include calling the one -call system to get a locate. Is there a
reason why we don't include that in our agreement? I mean it says you have to notify
the ... um ... engineering department, you know, and obviously you have to get a permit
and all this stuff, but...
Dilkes/ Perhaps because it's just such a given. I don't know (laughing)
Payne/ Because it's the law you have to? (laughter)
Hayek/ It is law.
Dilkes/ Yeah.
Payne/ It just seems ... yes they have to do it because they're digging, but it just seems like it just
was missing when I read it. I don't...
Dilkes/ You know, in terms of the excavation, they still go through a permitting process with
Public Works. This is ... this ... the purpose of this agreement is more to give them the
right to be in the right -of -way, unless of a nuts and bolts kind of thing.
Payne/ Okay.
ITEM 3d(17) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN
AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST TO A SUBORDINATION
AGREEMENT AMONG THE CITY OF IOWA CITY, THE HOUSING
FELLOWSHIP, AND CORRIDOR WOODS LIMITED PARTNERSHIP,
IOWA CITY, IOWA FOR PROPERTIES LOCATED AT 720, 724, 728 &
732 FOSTER ROAD AND 701, 705, 709 & 713 ARCH ROCK ROAD, IOWA
CITY, IOWA.
Dickens/ I just have a question on the ... 3d(17). I just wasn't sure what the subordination... what
that actually means. I don't know that I've ever seen that come up before.
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Dilkes/ Which number you on, Terry?
Dickens/ 3d(17), or 3d.
Dilkes/ Oh, 3d...
Dickens/ 17. (unable to hear person away from mic) Yeah, I just ... I just wasn't sure exactly
how that affected us. (unable to hear person away from mic) In the line of...
Hayek/ We agreed to let somebody else jump ahead of us in the (noise on mic) priority.
Dilkes/ Often when that happens is when the ... the homeowner that has the ... the loan from us
refinances and so their, um, their primary lender wants to be in the first spot.
Markus/ And they usually have enough equity to take us out of our position at that point, as well.
ITEM 12. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 10, ENTITLED USE
OF PUBLIC WAYS AND PROPERTY," CHAPTER 3, ENTITLED,
"COMMERCIAL USE OF SIDEWALKS," SECTION 3, ENTITLED "USE
FOR SIDEWALK CAFES," TO REGULATE SIDEWALK CAFES
PRIMARILY BY POLICY AND ADMINISTRATIVE RULES. (SECOND
CONSIDERATION)
ITEM 13. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING A POLICY FOR USE
OF PUBLIC RIGHT -OF -WAY FOR SIDEWALK CAFES AND
RESCINDING RESOLUTION NO. 07-227.
Payne/ I had a question on the way the ... item is written for the side ... the sidewalk cafe
ordinance, not on what Rick talked about but it's part of...we have two ... we have Item
12 and Item 13, I think. Item 12 is to make it administrative process and Item... 13 is...
but we put the sidewalk cafe in there. So if we don't agree with the sidewalk cafe
ordinance then we have to vote no on the whole Item 13? Is that...
Dilkes/ If you ... if you vote yes to the sidewalk cafe ordinance but you're not ... you want to make
changes or you're not sure about the ... then you can just defer that one.
Payne/ Maybe I'm not ... I'm not getting you to understand what I'm asking. Let me see if I can
find it specifically. Sorry!
Throgmorton/ If...if we approve eliminating the existing code provisions.
Payne/ Yeah, if we ... if we approve 12, which is...
Dilkes/ Uh -huh.
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Karr/ It removes it from the code. 12.
Throgmorton/ But don't ... but defer action on 13; then will we be stuck in sort of limbo or no-
man's land?
Dilkes/ Yeah, you may be until you decide that, but... as a... as a practical matter... as a practical
matter, nothing more's going to happen this season unless you approve the code
provisions and you approve the, uh, the resolution for the policy.
Dobyns/ So if we want to make the changes like Matt recommended, is that what you're...
Payne/ No, I'm saying what if we want everything but we don't want the parking. We don't
want to do the parking thing. We want that part to say no. But we want the ... we want
staff to be able to ... administratively do the...
Dilkes/ Maybe you...
Karr/ I think ... I think I understand it cause I think I asked this very question. You have several
options available to you, one of them could be — you agree with the concept of removing
the ... the regulations from the code and allowing staff to do administrative rules.
However, you don't fully agree with the proposed administrative rules.
Payne/ Rules... correct!
Karr/ So you could proceed taking it out of the code and then either defer, as Eleanor had stated,
til you get satisfied with the administrative rules, or as she stated, you could at that point
then, uh, amend and say, I ... I move that we amend the resolution by deleting the parking
spaces provision and proceed with the rest.
Payne/ Okay.
Karr/ Okay?
Payne/ Yep.
Karr/ Um, the other option that was pre... presented, and I asked this question last week at staff
as a matter of fact — if you don't take any action on 13 — what 12 does is take it out of the
code and say, we're going to establish administrative rules. It doesn't say we're going to
establish them tonight.
Payne/ Okay.
Karr/ So you have that opportunity.
Throgmorton/ Matt, I (both talking)
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Dilkes/ We already allow for administrative approval. It's just that the ... what governs that
approval is the ordinance. Okay? All... so all this does is take the provisions that are in
the ordinance ... the bulk of them, put them in a policy, so that when we want to change
those we can do it with one reading as opposed to th ... three.
Payne/ Okay, but what if one little piece of the rule I don't agree with (several talking) so I want
to vote no on that one little piece, that means I have to vote no on the whole thing.
Dilkes/ No ... no...
Karr/ You can amend it.
Dilkes/ ...then you seek to amend it.
Payne / Right (several talking) If there was support, otherwise I'm going to vote no on something
just because of one little piece.
Karr/ That would be your prerogative.
Champion/ That's your prerogative.
Payne/ Okay. Okay.
Champion/ Like a senator!
Dobyns/ (mumbled) throw out considerations for amendments at public session? Okay.
Throgmorton/ I have questions about Items 10 and 14, but I don't think we have time to get into
`em because we've got to do this Landfill stuff, right?
Hayek/ Well, um...
ITEM 10. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 5, ENTITLED
"POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED
"MISCELLANEOUS OFFENSES," TO PROVIDE THAT
"KEEPING A DISORDERLY HOUSE" IS A MUNICIPAL
INFRACTION AND TITLE 17, ENTITLED "BUILDING AND
HOUSING," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED "HOUSING CODE," TO
ADD ANOTHER BASIS FOR A RENTAL PERMIT SANCTION.
(FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Dobyns/ Cause I have a question on 10 too.
Hayek/ ...no, I ... I think it's more important that we address the agenda items, frankly, and ... and
if we ... that's what we're going to be voting on, unless I'm getting...
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Markus/ Go ahead!
Dobyns/ (mumbled) to?
Throgmorton/ About the disorderly house ordinance or ... roughly described, uh, so one thing I'm
wondering is what are the standards for determining that a disorderly house situation
exists? Is it about loudness only? You know, how ... how can one define it clearly
enough so it's... justifiable reasons for taking action.
Boothroy/ I think what you're ask ... I mean, the ... it's already defined, uh, but I think you're
asking how the police when they roll to a call determine in their best judgment that they
need to cite that as a ... as a disorderly house.
Throgmorton/ Yes.
Boothroy/ What ... I'll let Sam, I guess, talk to...
Dilkes/ Can I suggest some ... I thought you, Doug, are you doing a presentation at the formal...
about...
Boothroy/ I guess I am!
Dilkes/ ... about this (laughter)
Boothroy/ Since there isn't time tonight!
Dobyns/ It wasn't clear when we were going to have a presentation, so I...
Hayek/ If we're...
Dobyns/ ...I'm glad Jim asked!
Hayek/ ...if we're going to have a more formal staff presentation, and you're okay with it, let's
just wait til the formal.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ You okay with that?
Boothroy/ Yeah, we'll have an answer for that question.
Dilkes/ That had been my understanding.
Boothroy/ Yeah, that's fine!
Hayek/ Okay!
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Dobyns/ But we'll need to ask questions...
Throgmorton/ Yeah, so you should anticipate questions coming your way during the formal
(several talking)
Dobyns/ Okay.
ITEM 14. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE CITY MANAGER TO
SIGN AND THE CITY CLERK TO ATTEST AN AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND THE DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE OFFICE OF COMMUNITY ORIENTED POLICING SERVICES
(COPS) FOR THE 2012 COPS GRANT.
Hayek/ And then you had another questions on 14, Jim?
Throgmorton/ Yeah, but I don't know if Rick had, uh (both talking)
Dobyns/ No, no, that's sufficient. Thanks!
Throgmorton/ ...what is 14? (several talking) ...grant. Um ... um ... what happens after year
three? Would be ... we be responsible for 100% of the two new hires?
Markus/ That's correct.
Hargadine/ That is correct.
Throgmorton/ Yeah. Urn ... okay.
Hargadine/ Through til year ... year four.
Throgmorton/ Just ... just wanted to be clear about that. Okay.
Markus/ And your commitment is through four years. In other words, you have to maintain the
staffing that we currently have, plus the two, for a period of four years. The three years
has funding. When you average out the funding I think our cost is about 43% of what it
normally would be for two officers for the three years, cause there's kind of a declining
percentage of participation.
Throgmorton/ Okay. There're budgetary implications I would want to ask about and pursue,
right?
Hayek/ Sure.
Markus/ Yeah, and ... and, you know, unfortunately this particular budget year is ... is tricky as all
the rest but it ... it's largely depending on what we're seeing coming out of, um, Des
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Moines this year and we won't know that until we know the results of the election, which
I think ... I'm conveying what you understand (both talking)
Throgmorton/ You don't know the results yet? (laughter)
Markus/ I don't know the results yet!
Dobyns/ And, Chief, I assume that in three years anyway, with growth projections, we'll
probably want these positions, and possibly more, anyway, so...
Champion/ Always more!
Dobyns/ Yeah, so it's ... (laughter)
Hargadine/ It would be our hope that the city grows, naturally (laughter) and yes, if...if the city's
going to grow then I'm going to ask that the department grow along with it.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, but ... I understand that, but we've also heard, uh, clear expressions of
concern about our budgetary situation, given the uncertainties that Tom just referred to.
Hargadine/ Yes.
Throgmorton/ But, you know, we've had these conversations over and over again for quite a
while.
Markus/ And ... and you're absolutely right, and it's something that I have dwelled on, uh, over a
...a number of hours of thinking about this, and I come down to ... you're getting two
more officers; we're designating them into certain areas... strategically consistent with
our strategic plan, and our commitment is for one year, uh, beyond that funding level.
There's no doubt in my mind that, you know, when you prioritize the types of services
that this community delivers, that public safety is right in there at the top, in terms of
what we have to do and what we're expected to do. But for the grant dollars, and the
justification that was used to receive those grant dollars and compete across the country,
is my opinion that we should take advantage of this situation. Knowing all the other
unknowns that I fear, I still come down that way.
Hayek/ Other agenda item questions?
ITEM 21. CONSIDER A MOTION GRANTING A 60 -DAY EXTENSION TO THE
POLICE CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD FOR THE FILING OF THE PUBLIC
REPORT WITH THE CITY COUNCIL ON COMPLAINT #12 -01.
Payne/ Item 21 —1 think I might have asked this same question when we had one of these before.
It's a ... extension for the Police Citizens Review Board and it says that they are
requesting an additional 60 -day extension, but it's really the first ... okay.
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Dobyns/ I was going to comment on the Youth Activities Commission question that's before us
today. Um... should we go ahead as a Council and decide to dissolve. Marian and I
talked about, um, communicating with the, um, four high schools, um, in the Iowa City
area and giving them a sense of, you know, the changes that would occur, still wanting to
involve them, sort of the operational details about how to call in students to represent,
um, that demographics' interests, should issues come up. So we've already worked on
those sorts of things, should we go ahead and dissolve? So it's not like it just happens
and then nothing, you know, nothing would occur. There would be ample
communications with relevant parties.
Hayek/ Other agenda items? Okay. Um, why don't we do this — why don't we ... get into ... one
of the two, cause I assume there's just not the time, uh, either Landfill or ... or ethanol
production, and I think I'm hearing that Fiberight might be the...
Fosse/ Yes!
Hayek/ ...the chosen one for the next few minutes to...
Fosse/ Let's ... let's do that. I think we have time to get this in. We need to be done by a quarter
til, is that correct?
Hayek/ Latest!
Fosse/ At the latest. Okay.
Hayek/ Latest! (laughter)
Presentation on use of municipal waste for ethanol production — Fiberight Compgny
Fosse/ What we want to do to you, in the few minutes that we have, is ... is introduce you to a
concept that we're considering out at the Landfill, and that's where municipal waste is
used for ethanol production. This is something that's been pursued since the 1960s and
uh, the technology is advancing to the point where it may be feasible now. And I want
you to hear about those details from Steve Gerber, who's here tonight from Fiberight, uh,
and he's flown in from Virginia to visit with us about this. In the interest of time and I'll
just turn it over to him and let you hear about the concepts. And ... and what we want to
do, what we want to get out of this is at the end ascertain your interest in whether or not
you want to pursue this idea, pursue the idea further or not. And explain the next steps, if
we chose to move forward.
Hayek/ Great, thanks!
Fosse/ So, Steve!
Hayek/ Welcome!
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Gerber/ Thank you, Rick. Thank you, I appreciate the opportunity. I realize your time is short,
so I'll be brief, and I'll try to be concise and maybe quickly skip over a few things.
Uh ... as Rick mentioned, this is something that's been tried for years. Uh, we've been
working on this actually since 2005, and that is the taking of municipal solid waste and
taking that and converting that and make ethanol, or different biofuels from that. When
we first started in 2005 it was completely non - economic to pursue that. Over the years
we've worked this into a very, uh, lucrative financial business model, and so now we
have, uh, confidence that this will work. Our process recovers the organics from the
municipal solid waste, which is in ... in layman's terms your garbage, and uh, and we take
that and we also pull out the recyclables. Uh, out of that same waste stream, at the same
time, and from the organics we extract sugars and from that then that we can create
ethanol, uh, from the resulting organics. All the key process modules have been tested on
a large scale. Uh, some of those have been done in Benton County at our plant that we
own in Blairstown, Iowa. And I'll show you just a quick picture of that in just a minute,
and other facilities, as well, around the country. One of the things that we are doing right
now, we're in the process of opening and operating an integrated facility where all the
processors are on one site. It's 1 /10t scale of a commercial -size facility, uh, which is 500
tons a day, which is about what you have here in Iowa City. And this'll be a 50 -ton a day
operation and it should be operational within 30 days. Uh, so that's, uh, going on. And
then also we are the ... the first company, first firm to have ... be granted from the EPA,
that this is an approved plan for taking waste, municipal solid waste, and converting that
into biofuels. Now to talk a little bit about the composition of waste, uh, in your waste
stream, Iowa's very typical. Iowa City is very typical of what you see across the country.
Uh, you see about 52% of the waste stream is organics. That is the big problem, uh, that
most people have in dealing with municipal solid waste and trying to do something with
that. Uh, we actually want that. That's... that's the part of it that we want and our
process separates the organics from the other materials. There's about 30% of the items
that the consumer has already decided will not be recycled. It's going to go to the landfill
no matter what you'd like to have happen. Uh, we can extract those by taking the
organics away from the recyclables. You can now get access to the recyclables in a clean
manner. And so that's an important aspect of this. An ... about 20% of that is totally, uh,
where at this point we have nothing to do with that. That would continue to go to the
landfill. So what we're talking about is reducing, uh, the ... the amount of municipal solid
waste that goes to the landfill by as much as 80 %. And have use for the remaining 80...
that 80% we have use for that in various fashions. Uh, I'm sure Dave recognizes this.
This is a picture of a landfill, uh, that's garbage. The U.S. disposed of 175 million tons
of municipal solid waste a year. That's equivalent for us that would be $30 billion
gallons of ethanol that could be produced from that, should you get all of that. Uh, Iowa
City has 130,000 tons a year, approximately about 500 tons a day, and for us that's about
a million gallons of ethanol per year, uh, that we can make. That we would actually
produce in our Blairstown facility. What we're proposing, and have had discussions
about, and obviously there's a lot of details that need to be worked out yet, so this is very
preliminary, uh, but just kind of bring you up to speed with some of the discussions
we've had, is we need about a three -acre piece of land. We would propose that it would
be at the landfill site. So it'd be adjacent to the landfill. UH, we would either build a
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facility or we would lease a facility, uh, would be our investment. We would put the
investment in the equipment and we would operate the facility — it's called a MERF or a
material... material recovery facility, so all of the flow of municipal solid waste would
actually go to this facility and then we would sort that out, the remaining 20% would then
go on to the landfill. Uh, we would bring all that in. Uh, there would be a discount to
your standard tip fee, which is now I understand $42. We would actually, uh, charge less
than that to bring all the material in. And then there's the 20 %, as I said, would go on to
the landfill, and then the recyclable material, we would, uh, mark it, package, sell,
process to a company such as City Carton, uh, the local company here in town. This
gives you a graphic of what we're talking about, where you see ... this would be the
facility that we would propose at the landfill. Something like that. Uh, garbage trucks
come in to the facility. The 20% that we cannot do anything with, those would be your
durables, your appliances, your mattresses, batteries, tires, things that we don't have any
use for. Those would be transferred on into the landfill. The ... we would, the recyclables
would be about 6% metal. You'd have about 7% other things, such as textiles, leathers,
and then you have, uh, 5% plastic bottles. The plastic films that ... right now have very
little value. We actually take to Blairstown and we make compressed natural gas from
that. There's that technology's in place to do that. And then we would take the mixed
organic pulp, and then that in turn would be transferred over, and that's a picture of
actually the mixed organic pulp that would come to us. It would come to us in live -
bottom trailers. That's about 50 miles over to the plant in Blairstown, and then we would
go through the process of a pre- treatment. We do fiber washing. I ... I'm not going to get
into a lot of the details there. Hydrolysis, enzymatic hydrolysis, uh, and so the enzymes
break it down. That's where you get the sugars. You put yeast in for fermentation and
then distillation, and in a nutshell that's... that's the process that would be at the
Blairstown facility. Some of the benefits that we see that, uh, would ... would come to
Iowa City — would significantly reduce landfill deposits. It could be as high as 80 %. Uh,
therefore, the landfill life would be extended. We would also be contributing to the
recycling efforts, which follow the ... the structure that's... that's, uh, that's put forth by
the DNR, for the State of Iowa to increase recycling. That'd be about 25 to 30% more
recycling would be done, again by those materials that would be going into the landfill.
We have the ability to use the methane gas because we need steam as part of the process
that would be done on -site at the landfill. So we could use the methane that's currently
being flared at the landfill. There'd be approximately 15 to 20 new jobs would be
created, uh, by this venture, and it would be part of the first in nation of the waste to
energy, uh, project, and so this would be ... you would be part of that. Uh, down the road,
uh, once ... if...if all this goes forward and we're successful, down the road later event,
there could be additional things, such as, uh, co- mingling of the recycling into bag
recycling, uh, yard waste is also a possible; we can use that as well. And so those are
some additional things. That's not our initial priority and so, but those are things that
could happen later on. This is just a quick photo of the ... of the demonstration plant in
Virginia. Uh, just to give you an idea of the process there that's being put into place, uh,
I won't dwell on that a lot. That is an actual photo of the facility in Blairstown, Iowa.
It's a... a former cornmeal plant. Five million gallons a year — it's a small plant. We've
done a large scale testing there and we would build on, add on to that building, and
expand the ... the, uh, the ability to process the biofuel, the organic pulp, that would be
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coming from, uh, the landfill site. Uh, this is what would be ... this would be the general
appearance of what... it would look like at the facility, at the landfill. Garbage would
come in; you have push walls, retaining walls, uh, goes up incline conveyor. That's a big
(mumbled) unit. These are actually pictures of inside the plant in Virginia right now, so
this portion would be housed there. Uh, the ... the trammel unit over here on the right,
that's your first screening. Uh, that gets rid of the cat litter things that we can't go with.
That would go to the landfill. The larger pieces then go into a high- solids pulping unit,
which is similar on concept to an autoclave. There's a lot of proprietary technology in
there with pressures and temperatures and moisture, and I won't get into all that, but uh,
that would also be there. Uh, the plant would require about 50 gallons a day of water, uh,
just ... just so you're aware of that. There would be no wastewater issues would be
associated with this whatsoever. And that's with all the ... if you take somebody's
garbage bag, dump it out, run it in that, that's what it looks like when it comes out, uh, of
...of that unit. After that it goes through another, a second trammel unit, then the organic
material — the pulp — falls through the screen. It's separated out, and then you have the
clean plastics, the clean recyclables that you see on the bottom right -hand side. If you
can imagine trying to go through somebody's garbage and pull those recyclables out,
which has been tried for years and years in what's called a so- called `dirty MERF,' that's
never been economically viable. Now that you take the organics away, now it's viable.
You can access those, uh, recyclables. And then that is the biomass that would then
come to, uh, the Blairstown facility. Uh, the next steps that we would proposed, uh, and
some of the discussions I'm ... I know that we're ... I think we're in agreement with your
staff, is that Iowa City has to first of all do an economic impact analysis to make sure, see
how all this works from an economic standpoint. Uh, we know it works well for us, but
that doesn't mean much. You know, unless... sometimes just doing the right thing,
environmentally, is not necessarily all it's all about. So it also has to make economic
sense, and uh, we'd also recommend a contingent of people from Iowa City also visit the
demonstration plant. There's been a lot of people over the years that have said they have
technology, that they have ... they have a process, uh, we actually have a plant that would
be operating that they can see it; they can see it for themselves; and actually see all this
happen. And we think that's an important part of this, and then if that, all that looks good
and ... and your recommendation is to continue, then we would work towards a ... some
kind of a formal proposal on this. And ... that's all I have! Any questions?
Dickens/ Do you do any hand sorting in that final ... when you get down to the final...
Gerber/ Yes, yes, there is hand sorting that would be done.
Dickens / And this may be a question for Rick, as far as the methane gas. At one time we talked
about, uh, doing a pipeline to the University. Would this take place of that, using it for
this facility rather than selling it off somewhere else?
Fosse/ Yes it would. That.. Ahat project at the University has slid to the back burner. So we are
looking for other alternatives right now. (several talking and laughing)
Dickens/ Okay, thanks!
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Hayek/ What other...
Mims /Just interesting. Very interesting. (several talking)
Dobyns/ So the products that, uh, what goes in the landfill out? The bio- organics goes to
Blairstown?
Gerber/ All the organics, all the bio ... all the food waste, uh ... for lack of a better ... animal
carcasses, uh, organics, paper, cardboard — all that gets, uh, termed `solubilized' or
basically broken down into fibers. It looks like ... it looks like pulp, and that all goes to
Blairstown.
Dobyns/ So recy ... recyclables go ... do they stay...
Gerber/ The recyclables, we would ... we would package those or bail them...
Dobyns/ On site at the landfill?
Gerber/ No, that would be done ... at the landfill, correct, in this facility. That would then be
marketed in the conventional recycling routes, as you're already doing as ... what Jan's
doing in your recycling program that's currently underway. We would not interrupt that
or get in the middle of that at this point.
Dobyns/ Thank you for liking our garbage! (laughter)
Gerber/ There's money in garbage! Believe it or not, and I think it's going to become more
valuable over time.
Markus/ Steve, why don't you mention, uh, the discussion we had about leachate, as well.
Gerber/ Yeah, there are a lot of opportunities, and I didn't get into all of those as far as potential
benefits but right now the leachate, there's poss ... there's a possibility that that 50 gallons
a day that I mentioned we needed to run the high - solids pulper. It's possible we could
use the leachate for that as opposed to drawing water. So there ... there are a lot of aspects
to this that we need to do more research, testing, and ... and some ... but there's a lot of
opportunity there. (unable to hear person away from mic) Yes. Yep.
Mims/ I thought 50 was pretty low (several talking)
Markus/ Leachate is that liquid that comes off the landfill (several talking)
Throgmorton/ It sounds potentially quite exciting to me and I'm really pleased the staff is having
us look into it. Uh ... I ... I do have one question having to do with potential by- products
associated with either the local plant or dist ... or the distant plant. So, I really want to
know whether there are any hazardous or toxic by- products associated with that.
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Gerber/ That's fine, and we will be happy to disclose all that. Happy to come back at a later date
and answer all those questions for you.
Hayek/ What do you need from us today, Rick, on this?
Fosse/ Um, just a general indication, is ... is this something you want us to spend more time on.
Champion/ Yes!
Mims/ Yes (several responding)
Fosse/ Okay. From our perspective, certainly the ... the two top things that we need to evaluate
is ... is managing our risk, uh, primarily from a financial perspective, and secondly is to
investigate this process to see if it's appropriate neighbor for our community. You know,
it's out of town, but not that far out of town. Uh, noise and odors, are they appropriate
for that location. So that's part of that plant visit.
Hayek/ Sure!
Fosse/ So...
Hayek/ I think your answer is yeah, continue looking into this.
Fosse/ Very good! Thank you!
Hayek/ All right. Steve, thank you for your (several talking)
Dobyns/ I had a quick... oh!
Hayek/ Go ahead!
ITEM 5c AMENDING TITLE 14, ZONING CODE, TO ADD A DEFINITION FOR
"DELAYED DEPOSIT SERVICE USES" AND REGULATE SAID USES
AS PROVISIONAL USES IN THE COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL ZONE.
(PAYDAY LENDING INSTITUTIONS)
Dobyns/ I had a quick question on another issue. Payday lending, the payday lending map, I
mean I was...
Throgmorton/ I couldn't read it!
Dobyns/ Well I was taking a look at it and it looks like, um, after the grandfathering it looks like
it'd be really hard for another payday, if we approve that, based on that map. (several
talking) My i -Pad only blows it up so much (both talking) and I just want to make sure
from staff that that's the intent.
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Davidson/ Yeah, here's the ... if I can...
Throgmorton/ What ... what I'd love to see is a PDF version of the map itself.
Davidson/ Okay, here's the map.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, yeah, I mean I see that but one that I (both talking)
Hayek/ I don't even think it translated through. I think the symbols shown in the lower left
actually have different text almost. Maybe I didn't see it correctly, but...
Davidson/ (several talking) ...some issue with it changing sizes that you really couldn't read the
key, but I can clarify, I think, anything here. Basically the purple areas are the CC2
zones, which under the proposed, what ... what's before you tonight, uh, are the areas
where as provisional uses, payday lending institutions would be allowed. Uh, that's the
purple. Um, the red dots, of which there are five on here, are the existing payday lending
institutions. The gold dots are where previously there have been payday lending
institutions, uh, located. The ... proposal is for, and I don't have it open right now, but
basically that similar to ... other ... uses in the zoning code for which we have concern —
adult businesses, um ... oh, and liquor establishments. We have spacing requirements.
Payday lending institutions would be added to those uses. So 1,000 foot spacing from
schools, parks, churches, and other payday lending institutions.
Dickens/ And why a 1,000 feet versus 500 or...
Davidson/ Because that's what's in the code right now.
Dickens/ Okay, cause ... the alcohol is 500 (both talking)
Davidson/ Yeah, and ... and that's ... and it was two things, Terry. That's what's in the code right
now and when we looked at the other ordinances from Ames, West Des Moines, Des
Moines, and Clive, which are the four other towns in Iowa that have ordinances, uh, at
least some of them have 1,000 feet in there as well.
Dobyns/ So if we recommended this, Jeff, it would be the purple spots outside the red circles?
Davidson/ Well, yeah. What it results in is basically right here ... right here ... right here ... and
right here out in Streb Industrial Park. Those are where you could locate new payday
lending institutions. If you adopt what's proposed. Now, existing uses can remain, and I
believe the prov ... provision, Eleanor, correct me if I'm wrong or Doug if he's still here —
I guess he's not — is that, uh, it ... within one year period, if there's a ... a expiration of the
use for a one -year period then the ... the allowance to have it there goes away. But if
there's a (mumbled) in other words, a business could ... a payday lending business could
go out of business at one of those red dot locations, but if another one was established
right away you could continue to have it. But you could not establish any new ones
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anywhere else except those locations that I just ... so it is a relatively restrictive...
ordinance, should you decide to ... implement it. Um, and Terry, if.. if there was a
majority of Council that wished to reconsider that 1,000 foot spacing in order to make it
less restrictive, then what I believe you'd want to do is defer your vote and we would
have a consultation with the Planning and Zoning Commission (both talking) because
remember they ... this comes to you from the Planning and Zoning Commission with a
recommendation to approve.
Dickens/ I just wondered why there was a difference between the alcohol at 500 feet for down
...for most of downtown, and 1,000 for the...
Dilkes/ Five hundred feet is for the, um ... the on- premises, um, places and the 1,000 is for the
retail.
Dickens/ Okay. So that's the distinction is...
Throgmorton/ Jeff, what was the Commission's vote? Was it unanimous? Was there ... a
minority (both talking)
Davidson/ I don't recall but I will find out by the formal meeting!
Throgmorton/ Uh, if there was a minority view, I'd be curious to know what it was based on.
Davidson/ Let me see what I can find out, Jim.
Dobyns/ I think it was unanimous, 5 -0 (several talking)
Payne/ I think it was 5 -0. It was unanimous.
Dilkes/ The comment says 7 -0.
Payne/ Seven? Okay. (several talking)
Karr/ (mumbled) comment says.
Davidson/ Thank you. I do not have my electronic deal open, or I would check. So it was 7 -0?
Okay.
Throgmorton/ Boy, you answered that quickly! Thanks! (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay.
Davidson/ Anything else regarding that item? Um, do you guys want any kind of a presentation
at the formal meeting or does this constitute enough of a presentation for you?
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Hayek/ I ... I don't know. I ... there'll probably be some discussion, but I'm getting a head
nod ... nodding head ... nodding of heads.
Davidson/ So this is enough presentation and ... (several talking). Okay. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Within one minute maybe, I guess uh it's unclear to me how people who
desperately need money to pay rent, buy food, etc., will be able to get the money they
need on a short-term basis. I understand that there are opportunities outside of payday
lenders. It would just be helpful to be clear about that. Maybe you all know and I'm just
being dumb here but I'd like to know.
Davidson/ Well, you know, obviously, Jim, what you're alluding to is the notion of this two -
tiered financial system where you have the conventional financial institutions, and then
basically you have this other system for people who do not have access to those
conventional financial institutions, and that's of course why this was brought to us in the
first place. This was not initiated by staff. This was initiated by the, uh, folks who came
to you and then you directed us to look into this. We did feel that there is enough
legitimacy to the relationship between where these businesses are located and... negative,
economic aspects that are then introduced to those neighborhoods that they... and the
Planning and Zoning Commission concurred to recommend this to you, if you'd like to
implement it.
Hayek/ Okay. We'll have more discussion at the formal. Thanks, Jeffl So why don't we
disband the work session so we can take up the formal at 7:00, and then we'll take up the
work session remaining items as soon as we end the formal. I apologize for the delay,
but ... them's the breaks today! Thanks!
(RECESSED TO FORMAL MEETING 6:40; RETURNED 9:55)
Landfill Update:
Karr/ And you do need to wear your microphones too.
Hayek/ Mics back on, everybody! (several talking and laughing) Thank you for your patience,
those of you who have waited diligently for... over five hours now to, uh, speak to us.
Uh, so let's resume, and Rick, why don't you take us to the landfill.
Fosse/ Thank you, I really appreciate you taking the time to listen to us tonight and ... and John
Scharf, our design engineer who drove down from St. Paul, Minnesota, is really
appreciative that we're going to finish this out tonight (laughter). Uh, what we're going
to do is ... is give you an update that ... from what has happened out there since our last
update to you, which was on June 5th, and then we're going to tell you about the major
steps that are necessary to restore the FY09 cell, including cost estimates and some
schedules. And uh, then we'll answer any questions that you have. And leading off, uh,
this ... this is what it looked like at the time of our last update on June 5th. Uh, we were in
the process of covering up the fire out there. We were in the stir, burn, and cover mode
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of the operation, and that took about seven days to complete and at least initially, the
cover was very effective out there. Uh, the ... we covered it up; the smoke stopped; uh,
but the...the weather conspired against us this summer in that we had a ... a very hot and
dry summer, and what was happening is that cap was getting backed from both above and
below, so despite our best efforts to keep it watered, and if I can digress for ... for just a
second here I want to point out on this truck. If there's any question about how well our
employees take care of their vehicles, this truck has been in continuous service to the City
for 42 years (laughter). They bought this truck when I was 11 (laughter) and it's...
Dickens/ Do you use that to spray the mosquito stuff ...in the neighborhoods?
Fosse/ Yeah! No, it's ... it's spring water out there. It's our ... it's our water truck.
Champion/ That's amazing!
Fosse/ (several talking) um ... but, uh, even though we (both talking)
Hayek/ ...remember that next time the Fire Department comes to us and, uh, wants a new
engine. (laughter) Proceed!
Fosse / Another engine? Yeah! But anyway, uh, despite adding water to the top of this, after a
period of roughly five weeks of being covered up, we ... we had... started to have some
problems with flare -ups, uh, that is it was burning through and the Fire Department was
coming out, uh, once or twice a week to put things out, and... and what that really was
telling us is that the ... the cover and wait, uh, technique had run its course and it was time
for us to move on to the clean-up, uh, so ... we ... we did plan, uh, and work toward
moving on to the clean-up, but with the added component of extinguishment. And, this
is ... is not an operation that ... that we can define and bid. You know, it's not been done
before; we don't have experience with it. Nobody really does. Uh, so the reasonable
way to approach this was to rent the equipment and do the work ourselves. So we rented
five pieces of equipment and we hired some operators to work with our landfill staff, and
uh, what we hired out there was ... was a large back hoe (talking in background) uh... we
got a D6 wide -track Cat with a six -way adjustable blade on it that's much more
maneuverable than to ... than the bulldozers we used at the landfill. I've got to confess
that we did rent a larger, more powerful, and ... and tandem -axle water truck and then we
...we also rented a couple of these very large dump trucks out there, and then we began
to open things up and ... and clean it up, and extinguish as necessary. And what we found
when we opened it up is some parts were completely extinguished and other parts were
not, uh, what you can see here is some smoldering tires, uh, tire chips that were used in
the drainage layer, uh, going on, and what we do when we encounter areas like this is we
spread that material out, uh, using that Caterpillar, and then we used the water truck to
soak that down completely, and then once we reach a point at which we are satisfied it is
extinguished, then we can load it up in the dump trucks and take that up and ... and
deposit it within our landfill cell, and one of the ... the key things that ... that happened for
us in the last roughly a month is, is based on the testing of the materials from the fire
debris, uh, the DNR determined that Spec ... special waste handling is not required for the
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debris from this waste, so we're able to landfill it in our own landfill, which ... which
helps a lot with the cost, and this is why we have two of the dump trucks here, cause
while one's up dumping, we're loading the other one so we keep ... keep the equipment
going all the time. Um, here's where we are depositing the fire debris. This is in the top
part of a landfill cell that was originally constructed back in 1996, and we've prepared an
area here that's... that's got, uh, clay underneath it and then we'll have clay over the top
of it, uh, to seal that ... that in there. Um ... so as we complete this ... this process of
cleaning up, which we expect to go into October, and cost about $200,000 total, uh ... as
we clean it up we'll ... we'll expose the liner and we'll begin to get a picture of what's
going to be necessary to reconstruct it, and... and I brought with you, or with me an
example of, uh, some of the clay out there. I don't know how good... can you flip the
lights on for a second, Marian? Uh, you can see the original color of the clay here, and
then what it's been baked to. It's ... it's vitrified just like a brick. It's ... it's very hard, and
depending of how much we... of this we find out there, that our liner has turned into, uh,
will determine partially how much work we have to restore the landfill cell out there. Uh,
one thing we ... we do know for certain is at some point in those nine acres out there, uh,
that the pyrolytic oils are getting all the way through the liner, and we know that because
of this ... this six -inch granular drainage layer that's underneath the liner that I told you
about on... on June 5t'. Under normal circumstances, we monitor the quality of water that
comes out of this system twice a year. Once the fire started we went to a daily
monitoring of this, because of concerns that somewhere the oils might break through the
liner, and I'm glad we did because... because the oil did break through and from that
point forward, we have been collecting and treating the water that comes out of there, and
uh, John will talk more about ... about how we're going to deal with that long -term. Uh,
most likely the way that that breach in the liner occurred is when we were doing the
operation where we were pulling out (clears throat) excuse me ... and ... and uh,
extinguishing the areas where we had actual garbage on fire, and where there was very
poor visibility down in the holes where they were working, and uh, may have scarped
through the liner at that point. So at this point I want to hand off to John Scharf. Uh, as I
said he's our engineer from, uh, Howard R. Green and is ... is out of St. Paul, Minnesota,
and what he's going to do is ... is share with you a couple things, uh, how we're going to
deal with the, uh, the out ... the flow from that under -drain system and the long -term, and
then talk a little bit about our options for the cell reconstruction and then I'll be back
and ... and wrap up after that.
Scharf/ Uh, good evening. Um, I guess uh ... starting first with the lift station, uh, I'd first like to
explain, uh, or review why, uh, ground water is being collected in the first place. Um,
this is the liner section, uh, that, uh ... um, shows the granular drainage layer directly
below, uh, the ... the liner, uh, specifically below the four -foot compacted clay, and uh,
this drainage layer collects ground water that, uh ... moves up, uh, through the native, uh,
clay soils, uh, below. There's a series of pipes in here that, uh, direct, uh, collect the
water and then direct it to the southwest portion of the landfill. The purpose, uh, for this
is, uh, for compliance with the Iowa Adminis ... Administration Code, um ... that requires
that there be a five -foot separation, uh, between the ground water and the waste. And as
Rick said, it also provides a way to monitor ground water quality, uh, from beneath the
landfill. Um, there, uh ... urn ... is some apparent breach that occurred, uh, during the fire
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remediation efforts. Um, the search for the breach is ongoing. We haven't found it yet,
but as the City cleans up, uh, the area, hopefully it will be found and, um, at that point
temporary repairs can be made, um, to the ... to the clay liner, and of course, uh, when the
...the liner's rebuilt, uh, permanent repairs can be made. So just to explain a little bit
about these, uh, ground water lines and the lift station, uh ... there's three ground water
lines, uh, that come out of the cell FY09 and they're also ... they're meant to service cell
FY09 and future cells, and there's three that come out here, and then there's two other
ones that service, uh, the older cells, east of FY09, um, that's, uh ... uh, FY95 through
FY06. So these five lines, uh ... uh, drain, uh, the under -drain water, uh, to the southwest
and ... it used to discharge near the creek, um, west of the site. Um, it's uh ... currently that
discharge is, um, being collected in a tank and the City's pumping that almost daily, um,
and hauling that over to the, uh ... uh, the City's leachate lift station in the southeast
corner of the landfill site. So, uh, there needs to be, um ... some kind of more permanent
management of this, uh, discharge, so there's a, uh ... this, uh, this fall, uh, this lift station
project will be bid and ... and lift station will be constructed, um, it'll intercept (mumbled)
uh ... at the location of the lift station. It'll intercept the ground water and pump it to the
...this leachate drain line that's, uh, gravity drain line that will drain to the leachate, uh,
lift station in the southeast corner. Um, we'll also have a structure here that will still be
able to sample, uh, and monitor ground water quality from each of the pipes, uh,
individually, uh, as well. So ... um, and that's in the works here.
Payne/ And ... just a question. Did you listen to the talk earlier about the, um...
Fosse/ (unable to hear, away from mic)
Payne/ Yeah, so this leachate is what ... is something that they could possibly use for their water?
So it would be like recycling the water kind of like. Okay.
Scharf/ Yeah. The ... the landfill itself generates quite a bit of leachate.
Payne/ Thank you!
Scharf/ Um, so, uh ... the ... the next item is, uh, reconstruction of cell FY09. Here's a map, uh,
that shows, uh, shows the ... the shape of it, I guess, and ... you can see, uh, of the 14.7 acre
cell, there was 9.4 acres, uh, that were, um ... damaged, uh, by the fire, and that's this area
up here. Um, the ... the design process is underway, um ... I guess as we move forward the
main questions to consider are, uh ... um ... should the cell be the original size, should we
rebuild the cell back to the 14.7 acres, uh, in ... uh, next year, or should it be, uh,
constructed in smaller increments. So we're looking into that and also the other question
is, should... should they be constructed of similar materials. So...
Dickens/ Would there be less chance of this type of thing happening again if you did it in smaller
with buffers in between? Would that...
Scharf/ There are way ... that is ... that would be a way to mitigate some of the risk, but there's...
positives, pros and cons, to ... to everything.
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Dickens / Right.
Scharf / And, uh ... I'll talk a little bit about that as we move on here. Um, with the, uh,
reconstruction, uh, the um. ... primary issues t consider are, um, the timing and the need for
the landfill capacity, um, we need to look at the current flows, as far as you know how...
how much of an area do you re ... you rebuild. You look at current flows, you have to
have a reserve capacity for emergencies in case of floods or tornados. You know, you
have to have enough space for those types of, uh, events. Um ... after ... the uh ... talk
tonight from Fiberight, uh, an important factor in determining the size would be, uh, what
kind of changes in, uh (noises on mic) the way wastes are managed, um ... that ... that
could affect future flows coming to the site. You... future waste flows. You don't want
to have a really huge cell if we're down to 20% of what you'd normally have. So at this
point I guess we haven't really determined an optimal size for, uh, the reconstruction.
Um, but it, uh, much of that depends on the waste flows. As far as, uh, construction
materials. Uh, we don't expect to, uh, change much with respect to the composite liner
portion of...of the cell, but in light of what happened, uh, you know, we certainly need to
take a ... a close look again at potential options for the leachate, uh, collection layer. Um,
in addition to ... the te ... tire derived aggregate, or we refer to that as TDA, um ... there's
other, uh ... mineral aggregates that, uh, have been used, um, successfully, obviously in
other landfills so we want to look at those as well. Uh, we have sand, gravel, and crushed
quartzite. I just want to, uh, note that this gravel, uh, it...it doesn't ... it's important to
note that it ... it's not crushed limestone. We can't have limestone or dolomite, um, in the
landfill. Those materials tend to dissolve in the landfill environment. Unfor ... that's
unfortunate because that's probably about the cheapest material you have around here, so
un ... unfortunately, uh, sand, gravel, and crushed quartzite are quite expensive. Um, in
evaluating these materials, um, I have a little, uh ... matrix here, I guess, with the materials
on the top — TDA, sand, gravel, and crush... crushed quartzite, and then the desirable
qualities along, uh, the side here. And, uh, there's a, uh, kind of a ranking system. Uh, I
ranked it a plus if, uh, it ranks high for that particular characteristic; uh, negative if it, uh,
ranked low and then there's a negative in parentheses if...if it ranks low but there's
reasonable ways to ... to address those deficiencies. Um ... so I guess, uh, all these
materials would meet industry standards and would pass regulatory, uh, scrutiny. Um, it
so happens that TDA is still approved for use at the landfill, uh, the ... the other, um,
materials would uh ... would need approval, but I wouldn't expect it to be a problem, uh,
with the DNR. Um ... as far as liner protection, uh, again TDA and ... and sand provide
good protection; gravel and crushed quartzite, uh, they're ... they have sharp edges so
probably some additional protection would be necessary, uh, before those could be used,
uh, probably in the form of a geo- textile layer of fabric that you put on the membrane
before you put the ... the aggregate on. Um ... all the materials, all four of these materials
are ... are very permeable. Um, but I do understand that the City has had some bad, uh...
luck I guess with sand in the past, and ... and I think that, uh, I think that's because there's
a high percentage of calcium carbonate or the like limestone in that... in that sand and that
...that probably caused a problem there. Sand is a widely used, uh ... um, drainage layer
in ... in a lot of landfills and it could be just a regional problem. Um ... has to be, the
material has to be stable on slopes. Again, sand fares fairly poorly there, but uh, it can be
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used as long as it's covered with the initial lift of waste, in a... in a timely manner. Um,
actually with construction. Um ... combustibility, uh, that's obviously a big issue. Um,
the mineral soil ... mineral aggregates are obviously not combustible. The TDA, uh, is
and uh, but there's... there's ways to mitigate the fire risk, and urn ... probably one way
...one of the better ways to ... to mitigate the fire risk is just get it covered with waste,
sooner, or, you know, pretty much right away and ... and uh ... urn ... if possible, you...
have that as part of like the construction contract, um, and ... and that would require the
landfill to stockpile waste in advance so the construction, which can be done. Also the
contractor could mine waste out of the landfill and ... and uh, as long as it's covered, that
...that will really mitigate the ... a lot of the fire risk.
Mims/ What about though, I mean, if you still have a hot load that comes in, I mean, what about
it just burning through that garbage down to the tires?
Scharf/ Well, when hot loads come in, um, it's ... there's smoke and you can gen ... you can
generally see that. And ... and address it. Um...
Mims/ I guess from my understanding, I mean we still don't know for sure what caused this,
right? Kind of assume a hot load did, but we don't (both talking)
Scharf/ I think we're assuming a not load, yes. And the trouble with that is ... is that as I
understand it, it was on ... very close to the TDA. It started in the waste and it was at
the ... at the front of...of the waste, um, and spread rather quickly and got to the TDA
before they could do anything about it. Um, that was a lateral spreading. It needs... it
needs oxygen to burn and so it's not going to burn down.
Mims/ Not going to burn...
Scharf/ Not very fast. It ... it will spread, but not very fast. And it's going to go lateral, uh, faster.
Fosse/ I ... I might just add to that a little bit. What created much of our vulnerability this year
was having a good share of that cell that was not covered yet. And... and once it's in to
that TDA, then it spreads very quickly. Uh, where if it's confined in the garbage, then it
smokes in a timeframe that we can get it extinguished before it spreads quickly.
Mims/ Okay.
Fosse/ So that's... that's one of the differences.
Mims/ Okay. Just looking at cost, if there's some, I mean, I know there's big issues with going
with tires again, but ... I know Tom's real worried about that (laughing) but (laughter)
Markus/ Better to learn something from what happened! (laughter)
Mims/ Well, that's it — if we can learn something and use `em again, but ... make sure it doesn't
happen again.
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Scharf/ Yeah, well, there's... there's other, uh, mitigation, uh ... ways to ... to mitigate fire risk
and ... and if it can't be covered, if the whole thing can't be covered, uh, we could, uh, as
part of construction put in, uh, fire breaks throughout it as well. So at least it doesn't
spread, uh, that was the problem here, you know, it just ... it just took off and there's
...there was no stopping it, but you can put firebreaks with gravel or sand or something
like that. And, uh ... also, though, just as part of general, uh, landfill operations, there's
...there's some things that ... that you could do again. Keep it away from the TDA. At
...incoming waste, um, one thing you could do is just, uh, kind of dump it farther away
from the ... from the TDA, watch it for a few days, um ... you know, and then at some
point then push it on in, all ... all at once. You'll push several days of garbage at the same
time, um ... that ... takes some additional staff, maybe some additional equipment, but...
um, it would be only during that period where you're trying to get the TDA covered.
So ... um ... the last ... the last thing is cost, I guess, and ... and that's quite a difference
between these materials. Um ... the cost ... the cost of the aggregate layer is very high and
can amount to, uh, 20 ... depending on the material, can account to 20 to 50% of the total
project costs. So it's a huge part of...of the cell costs. Um ... based on the probable
volume that would be necessary for that 9.4 acre burned area, uh, the aggregate cost
alone, uh, would be just for a relative ... uh ... scale here, but uh ... it would be $400,000 for
TDA, $700,000 for sand, and $1.5 million for gravel or crushed quartzite. So, quite a
range there, and uh ... TDA is a good product though. You know, it's widely used, um,
this was, uh, unusual, uh ... disaster.
Fosse/ Let me go ahead and ... and wrap up and then we'll field any questions that we have. Uh,
one point I was going to make back to the Fiberight discussion is one ... one of the
appealing aspects of... of going with that process is that all the waste has been processed
before it goes down to the landfill, so that ... that opportunity for hot loads is eliminated
there. So here's where we're going. Uh, the ... the clean up of the fire debris is on going.
That is we're renting the equipment; we're doing it with in -house staff; we expect to be
complete in early October; approximate cost $200,000. Uh, the lift station for the under -
drain system, uh, we set the public hearing for that tonight on your Consent Calendar.
The estimated construction cost is $120,000 and the, uh, the estimated cost to get the
electricity down there is ... is another $20,000 cause we ... we have quite a ways to get
power down there, and ... and one thing you might be asking yourself is ... okay, if we find
where that ... that liner is blea ... breached and we fix that, why do we need this lift station.
And ... and the reason for that is ... is once those pyrolytic oils are in that under -drain
system, the time it's going to take for that to flush out of there will be measured in
decades, not in...in days. So it's ... it's a long -term proposition that we'll be treating that,
uh, at our wastewater plant. Uh, then the recommended, or reconstruction of the liner
system, uh, also on the Consent Calendar tonight was the contract for design, bidding,
and inspection services, uh, for... for Howard R. Green, uh, construction is targeted in...
in 2013. We'll want to be done by the end of next summer. Um, preliminary
construction cost estimate for the full area, using the more expensive materials, is about
$3.5 million, and that puts our total price tag for the event in the neighborhood of $5
million. So with that I'll open it up — any questions that you may have. I know it's late,
and if you think of any...
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Hayek/ Not a lot of steam here, so ... (laughter)
Fosse/ ...later, please feel free to call me about that, as well. (unable to hear person away from
mic) Insurance, we're still providing information to the insurer, and they're evaluating
the stuff. We do not have a determination yet.
Dickens/ Cause I'd think they'd want to pay more, to have it not happen again.
Champion/ (mumbled) (several talking)
Hayek/ Do you need... you don't... you're not looking for... feedback or input or decision point.
Fosse/ No! Tonight was about keeping you informed of where we've been and where we're
going.
Champion/ I learned one thing about landfills — they're much more complicated than they
appear!
Hayek/ Yes they are!
Fosse/ They are. They're a huge obligation and responsibility. Um... (unable to hear person
away from mic) (laughter)
Throgmorton/ It was easier when they were (several talking and laughing) ... when they were
dumps, not landfills.
Fosse/ Yes!
Hayek/ Okay.
Fosse/ Well, thank you!
Info Packets:
Hayek/ Thank you for your work. Thanks for making the trip. (several talking) All right.
Um ... we didn't look at the Info Packets. They're very sparse, um ... which is great; no
complaints! (laughter) Are there any questions on the Info Packets? (several
responding) Uh ... Council time, ahh, the heck with it. (laughter) Uh ... pending work
session topics.
Pending Work Session Topics:
Dickens/ Only one that I'd like to bring up is reducing the...
Hayek/ ...thing on?
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Dickens/ ...reducing the, uh ... footage between alcoholic establishments from 500 to 200 feet, if
we can do it outside the University - impact area. I don't know if that can be done, but
bring it up for discussion, as far as economic development, it's ... I think it's hurting areas
outside of the downtown area.
Mims/ Or even look at (both talking)
Dilkes/ Tell me that again. Reducing...
Markus/ The distance between (both talking) establishments between, from 500 to 200, outside
of the...
Dilkes/ Outside of the downtown.
Dickens/ Outside of the University - impact area.
Champion/ But it isn't just the ... it's not just the liquor license. It has to be ... I mean, if you're
opening a restaurant — isn't that right — a restaurant can still open within ... no?
Dickens/ No.
Dilkes/ Well, for purposes of zoning, if...if you, um, stay open past midnight, you are a bar.
Dickens/ (mumbled) ...I think it's affecting some areas outside the ... the downtown area. (noises
on mic) Is there enough support to look at it? (several responding)
Champion/ I'm willing to look at it, of course. (several talking)
Hayek/ Got it.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled) ...I didn't have my stuff open to, uh, the Council packets. Could I say
one thing about one Council packet entry?
Hayek/ Yeah!
Throgmorton/ Uh, and that has to do with the new web page design for the City. Uh, I think it's
a great improvement, and I just want to acknowledge that and thank you all for the work
on that. And we'll see how it gets used and all that, and whether there are complications,
but ... it's a big plus! And then, oh, what's going on over there? (several talking and
laughing) Are we officially on work session topics, is that where we were? (several
responding) Yeah, uh ... I'm curious about Taft Speedway, the possible levee, flood
walls, etc. Like to have some sense of what you have in mind, Tom, in terms of when we
would get to that, because I just expressing my own view — I think it'd be really
important to have a work session presentation and discussion about it, without having a
vote on it the same night. So I'm just ... like to have some, you know, foresight about...
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Dickens/ Well even an update on where we're at with it.
Throgmorton/ Yeah!
Fruin/' We've talked about a, uh, work session in September about all the flood mitigation
projects and just bringing you up to speed on all of `em, where we're at, what the
timeline'll be. Comprehensively so you can understand the, all the different dynamics
going on in the community.
Hayek/ So we ... we could do that, uh, once the report's in and you're ready to ... wrap that into a
work session, and then take a vote, subsequent to that, whenever you're ready for that.
So I think the answer to your question is yes. (several talking)
Payne / And it would be nice to not have the update at 10:30 at night, so you know you could
actually process the information (laughter and several talking)
Markus/ We'll only let Rick have one subject. (laughter)
Hayek/ Any other work session topic discussion? Okay. Uh, next is upcoming meetings.
There's the schedule; you have it! (laughter) Any complaints? (laughter)
Dickens/ Second!
Hayek/ Okay! Thank you. What a marathon day; we'll see you all later! Good work!
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