HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-11-27 TranscriptionNovember 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present:
Staff Present:
Others Present:
Agenda Items•
Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Payne, Throgmorton, Mims (arrived
late)
Markus, Fruin, Fosse, Dilkes, Karr, Dulek, Boothroy, Bentley, O'Malley,
Rocca, Grier, Reichart, Davidson, Knoche, Goodman
Bramel, UISG
Hayek/ Well why don't we, uh, get started with the work session, uh, this evening. Want to
welcome everyone and (away from mic) table. He's filling in for Matt, who I think has a
test tomorrow. All right (mumbled) dry run (mumbled)
Bramel/ It is!
ITEM 5f CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY REZONING
APPROXIMATELY 1.38 ACRES LOCATED AT 1030 WILLIAM STREET
FROM COMMERCIAL OFFICE (CO -1) TO MEDIUM - DENSITY MULTI-
FAMILY (RM -20). (REZ12- 00023) [Discussion only at formal meeting]
(SECOND CONSIDERATION)
ITEM 16. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN A
LETTER OF SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION OF IOWA CITY
SENIOR APARTMENTS, L.P. FOR LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX
CREDITS (LIHTC) TO CONSTRUCT A MULTI -UNIT SENIOR
RESIDENTIAL PROJECT AT 1030 WILLIAM STREET AND
COMMITTING LOCAL FUNDS TO THE PROJECT.
Hayek/ ...really starts, but we're glad to have you with us. Uh, the first item is questions from
Council on agenda items. I do want to note that, um, there are two ... two topics where we
have been requested or advised to collapse, uh, two separate items into one. So the first
is ... is the, uh, the urn ... uh, elderly housing on Williams Street, which is a zoning item.
It's 5f and then there's also Item 16 which is the, um; letter of support for that project for
the tax credits. We've been asked to move 16 ... Item 16 up so that it's ... it's considered
immediately after 5f.
Champion/ Okay.
ITEM 5g CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14, ZONING CODE,
ARTICLE 4C, ACCESSORY USES AND BUILDINGS, TO ALLOW FOR
THE KEEPING OF CHICKENS AS AN ACCESSORY USE TO SINGLE
FAMILY DETACHED USES AND TO REFERENCE STANDARDS FOR
STRUCTURES FOR THE KEEPING OF CHICKENS. (SECOND
CONSIDERATION)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 2
ITEM 10. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED
"POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "ANIMAL
CONTROL," TO ESTABLISH A PERMIT PROCESS FOR URBAN
CHICKENS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Hayek/ They're the same ... they're related to the same issue of course. Um ... we have also on
that issue been asked to, uh, expedite 5f. Urn ... and we can get a more detailed
explanation from Eleanor if you want that, but basically we need to have passed the
rezoning for, um, for us really to be able to enter into the letter of support. So when we
get to 5f, if someone would make a motion (mumbled) (several responding) and then the
...the very next item, 5g, is the ... is chickens and there's a ... there's another item, Item 10.
As you may recall, 5g is the zoning portion of it, 10 is the permit process part of it. Um,
for... for, in terms of uh, making it more efficient for public input, we've been advised
to ... to move those up so that 10 is considered right after 5g. So we'll need a motion.
(several responding) Right.
Throgmorton/ Speaking of chickens, should we discuss chickens at this moment?
Hayek/ Well, it's the next bullet point. So why don't we...
Karr/ You will have to have your mics on to be recorded. Okay! (unable to hear person
responding) Okay, there's somebody I'm not hearing. (noises on mic) Okay! Rick is
on! (laughter)
Hayek/ Let's do so, but why don't we take care of the other agenda items, uh, before we, uh, do
that. Are there questions about other agenda items?
Payne/ So if we have a question about something that's in a packet, can we ... but it's on the
agenda, so now's the time to ask it? I mean, it's in a packet.
Throgmorton/ Go for it!
Payne/ But it's also on the agenda.
Hayek/ Oh, that's fine.
Dobyns/ Get wild!
Hayek/ Yeah, go, just go crazy!
Payne/ I just don't want you to tell me it's not the appropriate time.
Hayek/ I'll bring out my ruler and rap your wrist at the appropriate time.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 3
Payne/ I just have a few questions about, um ... it's in the 11/15 Information Packet about the
...some of the flood stuff. Can I ask those questions now or do you want me to wait?
Hayek/ You ... you sure can. Uh, Rick's here and ...
Payne/ Okay.
Hayek/ And he, by the way, he's going to at the beginning of the public discussion tonight on the
levee item provide some information, uh, to the room before the public starts its process
of weighing in. (several talking)
Payne/ Okay.
Hayek/ Yeah, go ahead.
Payne/ Um ... my first question is, um, in the packet it talked about after the 1% flood elevation
was increased... increased by a foot three buildings were no longer on land that was
above the BFE. So were the not ... owners notified of the change and who was
responsible to notify the owners of that change?
Fosse/ Is Julie here? (unable to hear person away from mic)
Dilkes/ Are you on the flood insurance?
Payne/ No, not the insurance.
Dilkes/ ...memo...
Payne/ No.
Dilkes/ ...if you can tell us which memo you're on that would help.
Payne/ Um, let's see. Yes, you are correct. It is in that IP3 memo. You are correct. And it's on
page 3.
Dilkes/ Okay.
Fosse/ Julie will be able to answer that question and she'll be here for the formal meeting.
Payne/ Okay.
Dobyns/ But we're not supposed to, well we can but ... maybe you should ask it so Julie knows to
answer it during the formal meeting because we usually don't have this sort of (unable to
hear person away from mic)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 4
Dilkes/ I have ... it had been my understanding that we were going to talk about ... the flood stuff
at the formal meeting and ... and I don't think Julie's going to be here for the work
session, is she?
Fosse/ She does plan to be here for the formal.
Dilkes/ She's going to be here for the formal. Matt and I had talked and I thought we were going
to pretty much try and do most of the flood stuff at the formal (both talking)
Payne/ I can ask questions then.
Hayek/ I'd prefer that we do that, but I mean if you (both talking)
Dilkes/ And then we just keep it all together (both talking)
Hayek/ ...to the extent that you want to alert Julie (several talking) questions coming. (several
responding)
Payne/ Um, okay. Well then I have another question on page 4 of that same memo. Um ... it's
talking about a CRS rating system, um ... it says Iowa City became a CRS class -A
community as of November 2011, but it doesn't say what we were before then.
Fosse/ ...Julie (laughter)
Payne / And that's all I had on that, and the other questions about something else so.
Fosse/ Okay. Thank you.
Payne/ Thank you, Rick.
Fosse/ Uh -huh.
ITEM 9. PROCEEDING WITH TAFT SPEEDWAY LEVEE PROJECT
ALTERNATE 7.
Throgmorton/ Can we stick with Taft Speedway for a minute? I ... it's not on the, uh, it's not on
the list.
Hayek/ Yeah, Eleanor's okay with that.
Dobyns/ On the agenda.
Throgmorton/ It's not a rezoning, I mean, we ... we can talk about...
Dilkes/ Oh, yeah sure!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 5
Throgmorton/ I'm inclined to think we ought to defer our vote tonight; not vote on ... on it
immediately after the public hearing. I ... I think it's unwise to vote. I think we need to
give ourselves time to process what we hear during the public hearing. So I wanted to
put that out there.
Hayek/ Is there interest in (mumbled)
Champion/ Well I don't know until after we have the public hearing whether I'm interested or
not.
Throgmorton/ Maybe there'll be like three people who speak and it's irrelevant and...
Champion/ I think there'll be more than that (laughs)
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Dobyns/ I was thinking about the same thing, Jim, there are opp ... I mean (mumbled) there's
email, there's... we've all gotten telephone calls (coughing, unable to hear) and this is
...I, for myself, I purposely not talked to you because I didn't want to bias myself to be
able to take in the public input about (mumbled) locked myself in. Um, now do I change
my vote after listening to someone? I don't know. But, um (mumbled) I would tend not
to, uh (mumbled) just because I think there's other opportunities and other modalities to
inform us that people (mumbled) I mean, how long has this been going on, and I think
City staff gave the recommendation, what three, four weeks ago, uh (mumbled) options.
So I guess I (mumbled)
Dickens/ I'm ... I'm inclined to go with the vote tonight, but I would like to first hear what
everybody has to say. (mumbled) never know what can come (mumbled) inclined to vote
but ... like you said, there... there's always something that can come through, but I would
prefer to vote.
Dobyns/ Is there something compelling, I mean, we can ... at the time make a motion and do it.
Hayek/ I think I'm with ... with those guys on this. I mean, we talked about an issue and we've
been inundated with ... with input, and it's ... it's this, and it seems to me that all of the
information that ... that staff assembled, whether it was the (unable to hear) report or the
follow -up memos or everything that proceeded it has been out there for considerable
period of time, um, and I think this was set up this fall so that that information would get
out there, perc ... percolate, and ... the public would have its opportunity to, um, examine
it, uh, and weigh in regarding it, and I think they have and I think be here this evening, as
well. I think people are pretty anxious just to have a decision. Who knows? Maybe
something'll come up that we haven't heard of yet.
Dobyns/ (mumbled) it's not like three considerations (mumbled)
Hayek/ Yeah, this is it.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 6
Dobyns/ I mean, so ... IA get that.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ Yeah, she will, and I meant to say that at the beginning. Susan's going to be coming in
at some point during the work session. She had some appointments she couldn't get out
of and so, uh, I told her we'd move ahead, but she'll definitely be here by the formal and
probably'll walk in sometime in the next few minutes.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ Okay.
ITEM 5d CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 1.02 ACRES OF
LAND LOCATED ON 1ST AVENUE NORTH OF ROCHESTER AVENUE
FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL(RS -5) TO
LOW- DENSITY MULTI - FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM -12). (REZ12-
00025)
Dobyns/ (mumbled) flood mitigation question? Okay. I had something else on the agenda, um,
and for Jeff, and Rick, urn ... and (mumbled) discuss this at the public, uh, this is Item 5e.
Uh, I'm sorry! Uh, 5d, um, there was a letter from a Sue Ford, uh, regarding some issues
regarding this, um, consideration. And I was wondering...
Davidson/ (mumbled) zoning?
Dilkes/ Yeah, that's a conditional rezoning (several talking)
Hayek/ ... take that up at the formal.
Dobyns/ No, I know that, I know, but I wanted to alert you when you speak to the public at the
public session could you consider that in your address to us? (several talking) Yeah. It
came in the packet. It was a late entry packet ... item today. And if you could include
that. (several talking)
Karr/ (away from mic) ...packet released at 3:00.
Davidson/ Okay, I'll look. Thanks.
Dobyns/ Yeah, download it! (laughter and several talking)
Payne/ My ... my other things are ... aren't packet items (mumbled)
Hayek/ Okay.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 7
ITEM 14. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE PROVIDING THAT GENERAL
PROPERTY TAXES LEVIED AND COLLECTED EACH YEAR ON ALL
PROPERTY LOCATED WITHIN THAT AREA ADDED TO THE CITY -
UNIVERSITY PROJECT 1 URBAN RENEWAL AREA PURSUANT TO
THE TENTH AMENDMENT THERETO IN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY,
COUNTY OF JOHNSON, STATE OF IOWA, BY AND FOR THE
BENEFIT OF THE STATE OF IOWA, CITY OF IOWA CITY, COUNTY
OF JOHNSON, IOWA CITY COMMUNITY SCHOOL DISTRICT AND
OTHER TAXING DISTRICTS, BE PAID TO A SPECIAL FUND FOR
PAYMENT OF PRINCIPAL AND INTEREST ON LOANS, REBATES,
GRANTS, MONIES ADVANCED TO AND INDEBTEDNESS,
INCLUDING BONDS ISSUED OR TO BE ISSUED, INCURRED BY SAID
CITY IN CONNECTION WITH THE CITY - UNIVERSITY PROJECT 1
URBAN RENEWAL PLAN. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Throgmorton/ I ... I have an agenda item. I guess it's agenda Item 14 about adopting the TIF
ordinance for the, uh, urban renewal area.
Hayek/ Uh -huh.
Throgmorton/ Um, I ... I would like staff to be prepared to, uh, discuss the ... the consequences
associated with adopting it. In effect if I understand correctly, one of the consequences is
that taxes uh, property taxes would be, uh, my verb, deflected away from the County,
away from the incremental property taxes would be deflected away from the County,
away from the School District, and into the, uh, Riverfront Cross ... or the urban renewal
district. Uh, tell me if I'm wrong but that's the way I understand it, and I just want to
make sure the consequences are ... are discussed publicly so that the public and we know
the implications of (mumbled)
Markus/ At this stage we're just putting these projects, uh, in the list. It doesn't ... this doesn't
start, uh, deferring money off to this particular, uh, for those particular issues.
Dobyns/ It just prepares the area (several talking)
Markus/ ... creates the authority to do it.
Dobyns/ Okay. (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ I mean, I...
Dilkes/ No, this ... this is the TIF ordinance that, um, it does a couple things. It allows the money
to be captured, but it is only actually captured if we spend money on a project that we've
approved. So ... in other words, um, when we certify what debt we have, that's when we
can actually capture the money. So the actual putting it in place does not ... does not
mean that we get any money that would have gone to the (both talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 8
Markus/ ... subsequent action...
Dilkes/ There's a subsequent action. In fact the certification of the debt for this next year is on
our Consent Calendar.
Throgmorton/ Okay. This ... this is precisely why I wanted it to be discussed.
Dilkes/ Yeah, I'm happy to address it. The second reason is that, uh, the adoption of the TIF
ordinance sets, uh, the base valuation and so when we adopt this TIF ordinance, we will
set the base evaluation at January 1 st of 2011 for the amended area... for... for the
amended area.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Dilkes/ And we want that base set at that time before the ... the value, so we can capture the
incremental value in the event you chose to use it on a project.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, okay, perfect. So I just want that discussed (mumbled)
Dilkes/ Yeah.
Dobyns/ So you're just looking for multiple opportunities for transparency.
Throgmorton/ Yeah!
Dobyns/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ I mean, I obviously didn't fully understand what we would be voting on. I want to
understand what we're voting on and I want the public to be able to understand it too.
Dilkes/ Sure. I can ... I can explain it.
Hayek/ And I would add as part of your comments, that the ... a project - specific policy versus the
district ... and in terms of financing the ... I think that would help as well.
Dilkes/ Right but the ... right, but the actual adoption of the TIF ordinance regardless of what
policy we have in that respect does not ... does not mean that the money actually comes to
the City. Until the subsequent action is taken.
Hayek/ On a project.
Dilkes/ On a project that you have approved, right.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Hayek/ Thanks! Other agenda items? Okay. Uh...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 9
Payne/ Oh wait a minute!
Hayek/ Sure.
Payne/ I have too many places with notes I guess. Um ... 5c ... 5c, I think I need to recuse myself
from that one. Would you agree, Eleanor? That's, um, talks about the North Linn Street
and the adjacent MidAmerican substation.
Davidson/ That does include rezoning of the MidAmerican property...
Dilkes/ Yes. Yep, I think that's right (both talking)
Payne/ ... from that one.
Hayek/ And we're just setting a public hearing so what I would just ... I would you're recusing
yourself and then just lean back, without falling over (laughter and several talking)
Payne/ ...it'll be fast.
Hayek/ Any other agenda items? Okay, next item is proposed chicken, uh, urban chicken
ordinances and resolution.
Proposed Urban Chicken Ordinances and Resolution (Items 5a and 10):
Markus/ I think what, the way we're going to handle this is, uh, Sue Dulek prepared a report, um,
on a number of issues and if you go to page 2, I think, um, and Eleanor and I are going to
tag -team this issue a little bit, um ... there's some questions that were posed as a part of
this, uh, process and um, the first one is the consent issue. There seems to be two main
issues that we're dealing with, and there's a number of questions that are posed there, uh,
regarding, uh, consent, uh, sometimes referred to as veto, depending on how, um, direct
and harsh we wish to be, um ... in terms of how neighbors would have authority, so if you
want we can just walk through the questions. I ... I thought it was important for you to
hear that, uh, at least from my perspective, um, there's one other city that Sue found in
this process and that was Ann Arbor, uh, that actually has the right of veto. Uh, that's
something that I would endorse and support in this process. Um, so unless you want us
to just verbalize each question, I would say to you that, uh, there are some questions
about how you would define who a neighbor is, uh, that would have eligibility to create
that veto, and it's my view that that would be any adjacent property owner. Uh...
Dilkes/ Can I just interrupt just for a minute? Uh, before you get to that ... the actual questions on
the consent or veto, you probably need to have just a preliminary discussion about where
the majority of you are on whether you want to have a consent/veto or you want to go
with the staff, the earlier staff, uh, proposal. So...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 10
Throgmorton/ And ... and the core question is whet ... whether we would adopt the resolution as
originally presented, right, which we voted on 5 -2 in favor of last time.
Dilkes/ No. We ... you've not yet voted on (both talking) You voted on the zoning ordinance and
you've voted on the framework, which is the, um, animal control ordinance, but the
reason we want you to have this discussion tonight is because when you do third
consideration of those ordinances next week we want to have a policy prepared for you
that addresses... that includes the addressing of the neighborhood consent. (several
talking)
Hayek/ So we would have three votes at the next meeting.
Dilkes/ Yes. Right.
Hayek/ Final on the amended, or the zoning amendment; final on the permit process; and then
one and only one vote on the policy.
Dilkes/ Right, right.
Markus / And the policy is really going to be the staff administration of how we roll these ... these
items out for our public that would be using the provisions of the other authorizing, uh,
ordinances. So...
Champion/ Well I ... I personally feel that there are some problems with chickens, and that um...
the neighbor ought to have the right of refusal. I don't think you can have chickens and
the neighbor has to fight not to have the chickens. It just seems to me that if you're going
to have chickens in your backyard, your neighbors ought to agree to let you have them.
Throgmorton/ Well, you know, Connie, I ... I completely disagree with that, and there are all sorts
of things that people do inside their property line that have adverse effects that cross over
their property lines, and... there... there are no veto provisions as best I understand it in
existing code for any of them. I have a big dog, a yellow lab. My big dog barks every
now and then. Does this bother neighbors? Maybe, depending on how much the dog
barks. So how bout chickens? They cluck. Does that bother neighbors? May be.
Should they (noise on mic) a neighbor to veto? It seems to me the answer's clearly not.
Champion/ Except (clears throat) chickens do ... there are diseases associated with chickens.
Histoplasmosis being one of them and if somebody in the neighborhood has
histoplasmosis, they certainly don't want any chickens around them. I mean, it's ... it's a
matter of... of health for some people. Chickens and pigeons and fowl carry diseases.
I'm not against the chickens in the backyard. I just think that you ought to be ...your
neighbors have to be able to approve of them. I mean, this same Council decided that
people had to approve using a parking space for a... a cafe, which certainly doesn't do
any harm to anybody, and now you don't want to have, uh, approval from neighbors to
have chickens in your backyard?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 11
Throgmorton/ So in the proposal that the staff gave us last week, hope I'm not confusing things
here, uh, there was a procedure laid out. So consultation would be required?
Consultation with neighbors, and if a neighbor objected, the neighbor could ex ... express
those objections to Doug Boothroy, I suppose, or, no the Police Chief, right? Um, and
...and then they'd have to give good reasons for the objection. They couldn't just say I
don't like chickens, or I don't like the noise, I don't like the smell, I don't like the ... the
threat of possible adverse health effects. They'd have to be able to justify the objection.
And then if the Police Chief or his designee found good reason to support the objections,
then the ... the chicken coop wouldn't be permitted. So isn't that strong enough (both
talking)
Champion/ No! (several talking) Not for me! (laughs) I don't think the person who's going to
have the problem with the chickens should have to fight not to have the chickens (several
talking)
Payne/ You know what, I can't park a car in my front yard if I want to because we don't allow
that. There are some things that you are not allowed to do on your property because it
devalues other properties. I think that we should have the right, as a neighbor, to say no,
I don't want to devalue my property with chickens on yours.
Dickens/ Simplest way is just to vote no on chickens (laughter and several talking)
Dobyns/ Terry, you may get your way! (laughter) Um ... the way that this discussion is going.
Um...
Dickens/ No chickens, no problems, no staff spending hour after hour ... for a few people that
want to have chickens in the yard. And that's... that's where I come from. 95% of the
people I've talked to ... I've talked to ... more than I'd like to (several talking and
laughing) I can do the percentages but ... I ... I ran into four or five people today. They
stopped me on the street. He says, you ... you're not voting for chickens. I said I never
was, and I'm still staying there — no chickens! It just ... it doesn't make sense to me... to
have chickens in the back ... I know there's reasons for it, but the number of people that
are doing it...
Dobyns/ But if there was a chicken (both talking) against your judgment, if there was a chicken
ordinance (both talking) if there was a good ... if there was a law on the books, Terry,
would you want to give neighbors a veto?
Dickens/ Well see I would vote no for everything, but I would have to have a veto off ...by the
neighbor because I ... if...if this is being forced on me and my property, to have chickens
next to me and I don't have a say in it, I would ... I would go for the veto. So...
Dobyns/ Um...
Hayek/ Tom, you were going to say something?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 12
Markus/ Well, I ... I was going to say that I think the veto, um, creates a situation where
neighbors are going to have to go to neighbors and talk to them about how they intend to
operate, um, their chicken coop and the raising of chickens, and I think that that creates
that conversation that's going to go on that... if... if there is a conflict in the way it was
originally presented, the burden is going to shift to the City staff. The City staff is going
to have to sit there and divine some solution to this, or reject it anyway, and it seems to
me that if somebody is so, um ... uh, wanting of raising chickens in their yard that they'll
be able to convince their neighbor that that's a good thing, and that they will get that
sign -on, and if they can't then I ... I really don't think it should happen. Now the other
thing I would say about this is it ... I define chickens as a, you know, a product of
agriculture and ... and to make comparisons to domesticated, uh, pets — dogs and cats — I
don't think is really a fair comparison, and so from my perspective, I would rather start
with this process being more conservative and as time goes on, seeing how this works.
You can ... it's easier to go from a more conservative position to the way I'll describe a
more `liberal' position by not having as many rules and regulations. So my view is, and
... and I started with that idea, that you did need consent from the neighbor. And, um, I
have some other suggestions as we go forward that were really kind of the result of the
questions that, um, Attorney Dulek had raised in her memo, uh, and others have raised
about the fees for these things. Uh, we have some additional information about that, but
I'm really an advocate for a ... for providing for the veto to begin with. Um ... I've heard a
lot of criticism, uh, of course about us doing this. It's going to take courage, I think, on
the part of the ... the City Council to even consider this, uh, ordinance for our public. So
I'd like to put as many safeguards in place that ... that ensure that this is going to work
itself out, that it's not a ... a significant burden, uh, on the staff to administer this... this
ordinance, and I think in the end of the day, I think ... I think neighbors talking directly to
neighbors can get this thing done, and I think that having that initial conversation,
knowing you're not going to get your chicken coop unless you get your chicken, or our
neighbor's permission for this — I think is a ... I think is a good process to start with. I
think it can be liberalized as time goes on.
Throgmorton/ Let's imagine I wanted to put a window air conditioner up in my house. Should I
go next door to my neighbor and... and ask the neighbor for permission to do that?
Markus/ Well, I can tell you depending on where you are in this country, there are rules and
regulations that vary for everything. Where I came from that very specific provision, uh,
that dealt with air conditioners, we didn't permit `em in the side yard for exactly that
reason. So there was a ... an entire prohibition. You craft ordinances to fit the
circumstances of your individual community. And I think here based on what I've heard
from our public, I think we're creating the opportunity for people to have these chicken
coops. I think this is an extra level of... of control, um, that's established, but it doesn't
mean that a neighbor that really wants this can't go and convince their neighbors, and I
think they will be able to do that, and I think that's where that discussion should occur. I
don't think it should occur necessarily around the City staff table, trying to, you know,
um, divine some solution to that issue. I can tell you, our City staff sits in here on ... on,
uh, aggressive dog issues, dog bite issues. It has to divine all sorts of solutions to that. It
consumes a lot of City time. Somebody wants this, I think the burden of the time should
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 13
be placed on the person that wants the chicken coop. They're the ones that should go to
the neighbor, convince the neighbor that this is a good thing, and I think ... I think sincere
people will be able to accomplish that.
Hayek/ The, urn ... the concerns we're hearing, uh ... seemed to go to three areas. One the ... the
veto and then second the ... the amount of the proposed fee and third the duration of the
...of the permit I guess would be the right word. Um ... I ... I think we can ... and I talked
to Tom about this earlier, he ... he had some good ideas about what we could do with
... with ... with, uh, amount of the fee and the duration of the license that I think would
address that, but, um, and we'll talk about it in a second but ... but on ... on the consent
issue, I ... I think we need to pursue the ... we should pursue the Ann Arbor approach
for ... for lack of a better word. Um, the ... most of the input I get is ... is opposed, um, and
uh, notwithstanding that, I think this is worth trying, um, and I don't like the ... the
consumption of staff time, uh, to ... to deal with this. I think we should start from a
position ... from a more conservative approach to this initially and see how it goes. We
can always loosen it. I think it's harder to tighten it, uh, than it is to loosen such a
regulation, uh, over time. Um, and in all other respects, I'm supportive of, uh, moving
forward with ... with, uh, with this project. Uh, but ... but when I talk to people who are
opposed to this, and I say well, how would you feel if you had the ability as a neighbor
to, uh, to consent or... or withhold consent to this, would that make you feel differently
about, uh, the ... the issue, and ... and uh, most of those people, the vast majority of those
people, have told me yeah, it would make a big difference for me. So, and I ... I think we
do have a problem with, uh, with especially dogs, and I've lived near, uh, homes with
barking dogs and it is an incredible nuisance and I think it's very hard to enforce. It puts
staff in a tough position. Uh, it creates an unfairness for the neighborhood. Um, be
happy to talk about that, but we're talking about this particular issue. We're ... we're
trying something new. There's a ... a considerable amount of division within the public,
uh, over this issue. Uh, and it seems to me that a consent, uh, tool, uh, would be helpful
while at the same time, uh, allowing us to move forward.
Throgmorton/ Well it seems pretty clear there are four votes in favor of that. I mean, if I'm
counting correctly, at least four. I don't know how Susan thinks. I ... haven't expressed a
view, but there are at least four.
Dobyns/ Well I'm equivocating. One, um, I don't think there's a so not an infection potential
with immune- incompetent neighbors that we need to be concerned about. I, um, chickens
are, can be a bother, but I just want to go on record that I don't think illness is a ... is a
concern. I know some physicians would disagree with me, but they're wrong. Um
(laughter)
Hayek/ I'm going to have to peer review your (laughter and several talking)
Dobyns/ Um, and I understand, Tom, that a chicken is not a dog, um, and that, uh, people don't
know what it's like to live next to chickens. (mumbled) Matt, I've been thinking about
this in terms of neighborhood stabilization, how can, uh, it sounds like, Tom, I think
what's you're talking about is, uh, it would be nice to compel neighbors to talk with each
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 14
other, rather than City staff to have to compel them to talk with each other ... about these
issues. How can we best do that? Um, and it sounds like from what you're saying, the
current ... the original approach is a little too passive, it's a little too weak. Um, this
forces people to talk with each other, whereas the opposite is also true. They could just
veto and be passive - aggressive. Lord knows this is the Midwest and passive -
aggressiveness does have a role here (laughter)
Champion/ Not as much as in New York!
Dobyns/ Yeah! Well, that's more aggressive- aggressive.
Hayek/ Yeah! (several talking)
Dobyns/ Um...
Hayek/ I'm with Rick on that. It's like (laughs)
Dobyns/ So I ... I don't know, Jim. I'm ... I'm actually you know thinking about, uh, you know, if
this is so bothersome to Council, that we have to potentially destabilize a neighborhood
by forcing a veto, then I don't think we should go through...
Payne/ How does that destabilizing neighborhoods?
Champion/ Yeah, I don't understand what you're saying.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Dobyns/ Well, if you... a veto is if I have the opportunity to veto a neighbor, um, I think that
could escalate tensions.
Payne/ There probably already is tensions if that's the case. If you get along with your
neighbors, and you want chickens, you shouldn't have any problems convincing your
neighbors that it's a good idea.
Throgmorton/ But that's what would be involved in the, uh, the initial proposal.
Payne/ Yeah! Perfect! Absolutely perfect!
Throgmorton/ No veto, you just go to the neighbor, tell `em...
Payne/ No.
Throgmorton/ ...what you want to do, talk with `em about it. If they have an objection, then
they bring the objection up.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 15
Payne/ But I'm worried about those people that I don't want to live next door to a chicken. I'm
going to veto it. I don't care who my neighbor is.
Dobyns/ Well, and I recognize that as a group (both talking) uncomfortable with this.
Payne/ ...and don't necessarily mean me (several talking) out there that do not want (several
talking)
Champion/ ...next to me if I don't want `em there!
Dobyns/ Yeah. I ... I ... I am ... truly uncomfortable with giving veto power over things like this.
Champion/ But you were willing to give veto power downtown in the parking, weren't you?
Dobyns/ This is residential.
Champion/ I mean ... this is...
Dobyns/ No, I understand that, Connie. I did think about that, in terms of what is the difference
between a, um, sidewalk cafe and a residential item, and I think there's, for me it was
different.
Champion/ Okay.
Dobyns/ I mean, at the end of the day ... oh, I'm not sure though. I'm still... Connie, I haven't
made up my mind.
Champion/ Oh you can make .... I'm not, I'm really not begging you. I'm just....
Dobyns/ I appreciate the deliberation and the discussion. Um, I don't know how I'm going to
vote on this.
Champion/ Okay. Well, I'm just letting people know that I'm not going to support it without the
veto. That's clear. Done.
Payne/ I'm with Connie.
Throgmorton/ I ... I would want an opportunity to, um ... um, you know, I don't know where we
would be in the process but in effect move to delete any veto power, and y' all can vote
against it if you want to, and overrule that but I want to be able to vote against a veto. Or,
you know, have ... have it on the record in a way that matters to people.
Hayek/ That's fine. I think what staff would like from us is where is the majority of the Council,
uh, on this. So it's ... by the time we finish the conversation this evening, we will have to
give that indication and then what we get...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 16
Dobyns/ I'm ... I'm against the veto, but I recognize if I'm in the minority, that may affect how
I'm going to ultimately vote on the rest of the issues.
Hayek/ And I guess a question you'd have to ask is if...if there are four people here who, um,
won't support it without a veto, then staff will come back to us with a policy that contains
a veto, and then I guess (several talking) for or against it. (several talking) I think that's
where we are too.
Throgmorton/ Well, if that's what they came back with, a person like Rick or me, uh, or maybe
Susan, I don't know, could move to delete the section containing the veto.
Champion/ Sure!
Throgmorton/ And then (several talking) voted down 4 -2 or 5 -2 or whatever the vote.
Dobyns/ I'm counting four people if there is would want a veto. So ... it sounds to me, if I've got
my arithmetic right, that City staff should move toward implementing a veto, and then
the ... then I have to decide what I'm going to do after that.
Throgmorton/ So, with regard to a veto then, let's assume that, you know, that's the way it would
unfold, that ... you know, it would be expressed in the resolution. There'd be a vote on
deleting the veto. The vote would go down. So the veto would remain. I think it's really
important to, uh, to insist that a person expressing a veto have legitimate grounds for
vetoing. You can't just say I don't like chickens.
Payne/ That's legitimate!
Throgmorton/ No, that's really not good grounds. Connie gave... provided good grounds.
Hayek/ But the moment we ... but the moment we ... we analyze, the moment we make it a
subjective analysis.
Dobyns/ Defend your veto, is that what you're saying?
Hayek/ Is your ... is your ... is your veto reasonable or not. (several talking) That ... that brings us
right back to the situation we're ... we're in now, where...
Markus / Who's going to judge the validity.
Hayek/ ...who's going to judge that. You've got ... you've got a staff member deciding whether
your opposition is reasonable.
Throgmorton/ All right, so you know, any ... anybody can say (both talking) I don't like chickens.
(several talking) Just don't like chickens. I don't ... I don't like the species (laughs)
(several talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 17
Hayek/ But ... but that's inherent to...
Throgmorton/ But that's not a good reason for vetoing what some ... what a neighbor wants to do!
Champion/ You know, I don't know, my daughter Cathy would like to have miniature ponies in
her yard. I mean, that's what she'd really like. (several talking) She would like to have
a miniature pony in her yard! (several talking) So I mean...
Hayek/ Are there three that would support (laughter and several talking)
Champion/ Are there three that would support that, and should her neighbor... why, is it any
different than a chicken? It's livestock! (several talking) It's not much bigger than a
chicken.
Dobyns/ I know when I've lost! (several talking)
Champion/ I mean I ... I think there are rules when you live in town, when you live in a
neighborhood. There are certain rules that have to be followed.
Hayek/ Let's...
Champion/ And we could spend all night discussing this, but let's just move forward with the
veto.
Hayek/ Let's just do this. Go ahead... Eleanor.
Dilkes/ If it looks like a majority of you are at the veto stage, and so if you could work your way
through those questions in the memo so we can have a fairly (several talking)
Markus/ Let me just, um, as we walk through those questions, the first question is the only one I
had any, uh, issue with. Eleanor, does ... does the tenant or the owner of the property have
more right to make this determination than the other. I ... personally I don't ... I don't want
to have two parties in the same household making a decision. What ... what would you
recommend if the Council proceeds with veto. Who's the appropriate person to make
that call? (several talking)
Dilkes/ Well, pre... presumably it's the occupant of the single - family dwel ... dwelling.
Markus/ They're the ones that are gonna have to live there.
Dilkes/ Right, but ... but I mean that's the question being asked.
Payne/ Well I think it's the owner because I think it's going to devalue the property. So it's the
owner's ... it's the owner that should say `yes, I'm okay with it.'
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 18
Throgmorton/ But the owner's not the person living with all the hazards associated with urban
chickens.
Dobyns/ Just putting my lipstick on a pig (laughter)
Markus/ Well let me ... let me say that ... that actually the lease could define those things too. In
terms of what the landlord allows in the lease, the leasee to take care of, right?
Dilkes/ Of course. Yeah.
Markus/ So ... um, I guess my preference would be to have the leasee be the one to make that
decision. They're the ones living there, as long as they have authority through the lease
with their landlord to allow that to occur.
Dilkes/ (several talking) I think that's reasonable.
Champion/ Yes!
Markus/ I mean, we ... we have...
Hayek/ So the occupant of the home.
Markus/ ...we have to walk ourselves through these questions to inform Council so that they can
draft this policy. In ... in terms of #2, the question is is a neighboring property limited to
one that shares a property line? And I took the position that that was a `yes.'
Champion/ Yes.
Payne / What about the corner?
Markus/ Um...
Payne/ Not a line, just your corners meet.
Markus/ Yeah, anything that touches is that case, unless it's separated by a public right -of -way.
Payne/ Okay.
Markus/ So a house across the street does not apply. Only ... only adjoining properties.
Dilkes/ So that means the answer to #3 is yes too, if that's what...
Markus/ Yes, that's a yes.
Dilkes/ ...if you agree with that. (several responding)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 19
Payne/ Yes, property corner, yes.
Markus/ Then the next question is is a neighboring property one that shares a property line only
at the corner of the rear yard. Yes. Yeah, and #4 is does a neighboring property also
include a neighboring structure that is within so many feet of the proposed coop, even if
there's no shared property line, and my answer to that is no.
Hayek/ That'd be really hard it seems to me to (several talking)
Markus/ Yeah, it gets almost to the point of a question of enforceability. (several talking) So
does that answer those questions for Legal to draft it?
Dilkes/ Yeah, if you're all good with that. Yep.
Throgmorton/ We received an email attachment from ... I'm trying to find the woman's name,
um ... sorry, my screen went blank all of a sudden. That ... that basically, uh, asks whether
we should (several talking) change ... ask us to change the reinspection fee.
Markus/ Yeah, and I have a...
Hayek/ Why don't you talk about that?
Markus/ I have a thought about that. We ... uh, Eleanor and I had a conversation and actually it
was Sue Dulek and I had a conversation, um ... about the permitting fees and all that, and
uh, when you start to equate `em to the cost, uh, of buying a dozen eggs, I completely got
the point. Um, and there's another provision in here that talks about, well what about the
renewal situation? Ann Arbor provides a provision that the permit's good for five years.
I would suggest that we issue the permit for a period of three years, that we keep the
initial fee at $100, and with ... for the three years. Not annual, but the ... the fee covers the
three years and that is a part of that fee we do an inspection on or about the first
anniversary of the date the permit was issued, just to ensure that there's compliance with
what they said.
Throgmorton/ But ... but no reinspection fee at that moment.
Markus / Right. Yeah. They ... they go out; they check to make sure that things were done the
way the permit was issued.
Champion/ Right.
Markus/ After a year. We charge `em the 100 bucks. That's it. Any other contact we have with
`em will be complaint- driven. We come back in and there's a complaint you deal with,
and maybe what we'll come back with as a part of that is some sort of reinspection fee. If
we find upon reinspection that they have not complied, there's a charge for that. If we
come back everything is according to Hoyle, the way it was issued, there's no charge for
that, and then in terms of the question was asked if somebody wants to, um ... uh, a new
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council, Work Session Page 20
person moves in within the three years, do they have a right then to object during that
period? My answer to that would be no. At the time they reapply at the end of three
years, we go through the process, okay, of recertifying with the neighbors; new neighbor
comes in, that's when they have their opportunity to ... to say something about it. Now,
my point in ... in this is that we need to ... we need to let it happen. We don't need to have
staff out there on an annualized basis checking all this stuff. I think that just encourages
people to not get along in some of these situations. But, at the three year period, you
have to have a reauthorization at that point, and I think what you're going to find is at the
end of that three year period, I don't think the numbers of these things are going to
manifest into what people are saying they are. I don't think this is going to be a big issue.
I think we'll be able to revisit these ordinances and maybe tamp `em down so that they,
you know, they're not as ... not as restrictive at that point.
Champion/ Yeah.
Markus/ But I think...
Payne/ So they have to pay the 100 bucks again after ... the next three years, every three years?
Markus/ Three ... every three years it's a 100 bucks. That's $33 a year for a, the license. That
takes care of that issue. It's kind of a, you know, on the one hand we're being more
restrictive on the veto power. On the other hand I think we're compromising on the... on
the fee basis and lettin' it go at that.
Hayek/ I could live with that. I mean, I...
Champion/ Me too.
Throgmorton/ I definitely want the ... the fees to come down. That ... that part of it makes sense.
Hayek/ I don't ... I mean, you would have a situation where somebody would move in six months
into a three year permit and be...be stuck with it for two and.a half years before the next
(both talking)
Dickens / When they're moving in they know there's chickens.
Payne / Right!
Hayek/ ...but there is that, you know, and it's imperfect, but I think it's, uh, I think it's a pretty
good resolution of these issues and I ... I agree that getting out there every year or all the
infrastructure and the administrative processes is a little overwrought.
Throgmorton/ So we won't vote on this part til next ... til next meeting?
Hayek/ Right.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 21
Markus/ If there's some sort of level of consensus we'll take those comments back, we'll roll
`em into our policy and then you can vote, along with all the items at that point.
Hayek/ Okay.
Dobyns/ But it is a different reality tonight, because the difference is that we have a policy with a
veto that is likely in the future. And that is a different reality!
Throgmorton/ Right. I'm not sure how I want to vote on that policy, just to be clear with
everybody.
Dobyns/ But I'm thinking the other votes that are, you know...
Hayek/ The amend ... the zoning and (both talking)
Dobyns/ ... given the policy with a veto in it...
Champion/ I know! We...
Dobyns /I have to consider how to vote on tonight's...
Champion/ When we discuss this tonight, it'd be nice to hear from the animal shelter on how
they plan on controlling all these chicken coops. I mean, we haven't really heard
anything from Misha.
Hayek/ (mumbled) question for her.
Champion/ I don't have a question I just want your opinion. What's your opinion about our
urban chickens and consent? (laughs)
Goodman/ You know I think the consent issue you have to figure out. I think, you know, there
are arguments on both sides, obviously, and you ... you just have to decide what's going to
be best. Um ... you know, we have a lot of different permits currently that we issue, uh,
through Animal Services Division. None of them require consent, uh, we do inspect on
an annual basis. All of those permits have a fee on an annual basis. They don't have a...
a renewal. I don't know what they called it originally what we called it. Uh, the fees are
the same every year and uh, as .... I think Tom knew those fees ... we're going to request
you increase those fees from what they are currently, because they don't cover the cost
that it does take to administrate them. Currently. So, uh, you know, the fees are right
around the range, depending on what permit they are, between $15 and $30 a year.
They're not expensive. And probably... three- quarters of those permits are businesses.
So they're... they're making money. They're not private households that are, you know,
keeping four or more dogs. So that's something else to consider is what type of permit it
is, whether or not it's a business or not, uh, I think, uh, makes a difference. It
all ... usually the business permits take more time to inspect...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 22
Champion/ Right!
Goodman/ ...as well. The pet shops and the boarding kennels and those types of things.
Hayek/ The 30 bucks a year would be in line with...
Goodman/ Uh, 30 bucks a year, we currently charge for a breeder, for a boarding kennel, um, a
pet shop I think is currently $100, um... circus is $100, rodeo is $100. We haven't had
either one of those forever.
Throgmorton/ Rodeos! (mumbled)
Goodman/ Don't ask my opinion on those! (laughter)
Champion/ I already know it! (laughs)
Markus / And I think part of the point Misha is making is that some of the criticism you've heard
is that the fee was too high, and I think the point Misha's making is we haven't adjusted
those fees in a number of years, and ... and when you look at fees, what you try to do with
fees is cover your costs. In this particular case with the chickens, uh, our fees gonna be
100. That'll cover the initial fee and that reinspection, and that'll be for that period of,
you know, three years. That's again something you can revisit after the three years,
depending on our experience.
Champion/ Okay.
Hayek/ Thanks!
Champion/ Thanks ... Misha!
Hayek/ Anything else to decide on ... this item? Okay, uh, let's move on to legislative priorities.
That's IP3. From the, uh, November 21St packet.
Discussion re: Legislative Priorities (03):
Markus/ So, what we've proposed are four, uh, key priorities for our legislative program for
2013. We like to keep `em fairly concise in terms of the number of issues so that we
don't get, uh, pushed all over. Uh, you might be a little bit surprised about our number
one priority because quite frankly I suppose across the state, uh, responsible tax reform
will probably be the ... the top priority for most jurisdictions, but we said on an ... on a
localized basis, uh, amongst the staff we would recommend that you consider the support
for the Chicago to Oma ... uh, Omaha passenger rail, uh, project is our number one
priority. And uh, I can walk through some of our talking points on these issues for you.
Um ... 2013's kind of a critical year for the Amtrak, uh, issue. This is when the final
decision is going to be made, and I don't think they have a whole lot of time behind...
beyond 2013 to deal with that issue. Uh, at stake is a federal grant that was initially
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 23
offered in 2010. That's how long we've been debating this issue. And that grant is in the
amount of $230 million. What's it take? It requires a match from the state of Iowa to the
tune of about $20.6 million. Um ... I think the off -shoot of that kind of investment in our
state, um, you know it's like the ... the shop local campaigns you see. You spend a dollar
and it turns into $7 locally. I think that $230 million, uh, is going to manifest itself into a
significant expansion of, uh, dollars invested in our... in our state. Uh, Illinois has
accepted, uh, the grant and their grant was $143 million. They've already commenced
work on the service to Moline, Illinois, and uh, we had ex ... you know, during this
process Iowa had petitioned the, uh, Department, the U.S. Department of Transportation
for an expanded study. That study came out. The preferred route was through Iowa City.
Uh, and it... and um, all the way into Omaha as a possible, uh, expansion of that route.
We felt politically that that was an important thing to do because I think we bring more
constituents in the further west we go, including Des Moines and Omaha, and in fact
that's happened. Um, this wasn't one of the priorities of the Metro Coalition. Jeff and I
sit in on a call, uh, once a week, uh, during the session and leading up to it. Not quite as
frequent. Uh, the Metro Coalition hadn't had the Amtrak service as one of their
priorities. They've added that to, uh, the priority for us. Um, and that was, uh, we ... we
saw the new priority list. So that's one of their priorities, the Metro Coalition, which I
think is a good thing to get that in there. I'd actually like to see the League of Cities add
it to their priority list, as well, because I think it's a benefit across the state. Um, IDOT,
uh, the Iowa Department of Transportation, recently released their, uh, environmental
impact statement. Includes the, uh, Tier One environmental analysis and describes, uh,
the build to no -build alternatives. Public information meetings are now going to begin in
earnest in December, uh, and there's a online open house on dot web site, uh, that you
can go online, you know, express your opinion. Um ... there's num ... numerous benefits,
obviously, locally. Expansion of transit, uh, transportation network (coughing, unable to
hear) alternatives. Uh, economic development, um (coughing, unable to hear) the term
that you'll hear in planning circles is "TOD," transit oriented development. It's not just
...it's not just an idea; it's an actual phenomena where you see these rail stations go in,
you will see significant in, uh, investment in economic development that occurs around
these rail lines. All one has to do is go to the Chicago area and the Chicago suburbs and
look where they've built these stations and look what happens in those areas. And towns
with a degree of sophistication like we have, in terms of planning, um, you know, this
...this River Crossings project, in my opinion, um, would receive a huge boost by having
that, uh, depot located right in the middle of that area. I'm absolutely convinced that that
will jumpstart the development down there. So if any place should be pushing this... this
project, it's Iowa City. It's really critical for us to get this going.
Throgmorton/ I agree completely!
Markus/ Tourism! University students. I have this vision of this Hawkeye, uh, train, uh, car
runnin' all the way from Chicago out here, uh, to bring students back and forth, uh,
number of students I think the suburbs of Chicago produces what, the second largest
population of students, uh, that go to the University of Iowa. I think that, you know
having this train service out here, I think it would just ... it would add a lot of class to the,
um, the whole University experience and uh, I think we would ... I think you'd have more
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 24
people coming our way necessarily than going the other way. Um... important state
issue, uh, there's a regional network developing between Illinois, Missouri, Michigan,
Wisconsin, and Minnesota. There's potential train connections for all of these areas, and
you know, you doubt the price of fuel is ... is really caused an impact, and people, you
know, people talk about Amtrak as being maybe not the service that we should be
pursuing, but since, uh, the 2000 ... through 2000, 2012, Amtrak service is actually grown
by 49 %. Uh, it's now over 31 million riders, um, on the Amtrak lines. Annual ridership
records in nine of the ten last year's, or ten years, uh, 2009 being the only exception when
the recession drove travel, all travel downward, uh, had shown growth. Um ... on time
performance is at the highest levels in 12 years. On time performance for Amtrak service
is 83 %. Um, that rivals the air industry. So, you know, some of the ... some of the
baggage, uh, that Amtrak has had in the past, uh, they've worked diligently to turn that
around. Um, Iowa City objectives in terms of what we need to do is engage the local
citizenry. We need to partner with, uh, different advocates from across the state. Our
state, uh, our University, uh, Senate has teamed up with us. They passed a resolution in
support of it. Uh, they've reached out. Geoff, who is our point of contact by the way, uh,
for this initiative, has reached out to other schools along the way. Grinnell, um... (unable
to hear person away from mic) Ames, uh, all of those have been brought on board. They
recognize the benefits of having this service, uh, bringing students, uh, into this area.
Um ... couple other points. Uh, this is not just a short-term economic development
initiative. We think it's going to drive growth in our area for several years, and one of
the things that I think is missed often, and I think is probably the key to selling this here
in the state of Iowa is that, um, this will have tremendous benefits for our agricultural
economy. The road, or the rail lines will be significantly improved. The intersections
where rail crosses roads will be improved with signalization. As a part of this initiative,
uh, the rail lines'll be beefed up. This should improve freight traffic at the same time,
which should help our farmer economy, our agri- business economy, in terms of mod...
moving raw materials in here to build our machinery, to move the machinery we build
here in Iowa out to, uh, places across the country, um, to, uh, to serve those areas. So
that's kind of the talking points. That's kind of the issue on passenger rail. We've, uh,
done the same types of things in terms of, uh, tax reform, which is our second priority.
Um, our position as a city, we're advocating for property tax relief that does not impact
local government's ability to provide service and infrastructure, or necessitate a tax shift
to residential payers. Uh, if property, uh, relief is pursued in a manner that impacts local
government, we're asking for additional flexibility in how we can raise alternative
revenues, hotel /motel tax, local option sales tax, uh, liquor, food and beverage taxes are
just some of the options that we'd want to pursue. The key is ... is to, you know, keep
your eye on the money and where the money's going. If...if...if they're going to create
commercial property tax reform in this state, and just shift the burden to residential or
even industrial or, uh, some other categories, then quite frankly we're gonna ... you're
gonna have a revolt on your hands with our local citizenry because those tax rates are
going to go up. Either that or you're going to have substantial cuts, and I don't think
there's enough cuts to offset that sort of...that sort of impact. Um ... there's a ... there's a
number of different programs and proposals, uh, depending on whether they're coming
out of the Senate or whether they're coming out of the House. Uh, each one requires its
own level of evaluation. Uh, reclassifying multiple family from commercial to resi...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 25
residential, um, that's ... if fully implemented in Iowa City, that's about a $2.6 million
impact in one year. Um, that disproportionately impacts the City of Iowa City, probably
Ames and Des Moines are the three cities, I .think, that get hit the worst in this process.
Um, if it actually applied, um, to all taxing district losses, the number would approach
actually $6 million to all of the different taxing districts — School, County, uh, City, if in
fact they ... they lowered or adjusted those, uh, values for commercial. Combined with
commercial, industrial rollback, the impact is approximately $3.2 million here in Iowa
City. Um, and ... and you know, realistically, uh, the percentage of people that, um ... um,
right now, the percentage of vacancy is so low that it's hard to imagine that the landlords
are going to pass on the savings that they accrue from reduced commercial property tax
onto the renters here. I mean, the supply- demand, the equivalent there, it doesn't seem
likely that they're just going to pass on the benefits, uh, to their tenants. So, thinking...
thinking that this is all going to trickle down, I think, is, uh, is a pretty wild imagination.
City Council is committed to lowering property tax rates through, uh, well - planned, uh,
local decisions. In fact, we had the largest tax rate cut among local cities and the ten
largest communities in the state of Iowa last year. We cut our tax rate 50- cents, uh, on
the dollar, uh, for the fiscal 13 budget. My objective in terms of preparing the budget this
year, especially considering the roll -up, is to try and accomplish a moderate, uh, tax rate
increase again this year, but ... rate decrease this year. Um ... our property taxes make up
60% of our General Fund and approximately 75% of our General Fund is personnel
related costs. So, if in fact property tax reform were tak ... to ... to actually impact us,
depending on the proposal and you know the House and Senate proposals were very
different, uh, it could have a pretty dramatic impact on, um, our personnel levels that we
have here. That's who would be hurt. So, I think this is something we need to pay
attention to, and our telephone call with the Metro Coalition, uh, the Metro Coalition
said, uh, in their analysis of the current legislative makeup, they really felt it was more of
the same. Uh, in terms of the, you know, the division of the House and the Senate. And
that we could expect more of the same. The one thing I think is a little bit different is
there was a democratic growth in the House and the Senate retaining control, uh, the
Democrats contrain... cont, uh, retaining control of the Senate will probably bode well for
a balanced discussion and a balanced, uh, legislative approach to property tax reform. So
with that I'd be glad to answer any questions about the property tax. I still have to get
through, uh, road and bridge funding and, urn ... and then pension reform too. Those are
the couple of the other items that if ..if you want to ... want to just keep going or do...
Hayek/ Keep going I'd say!
Markus/ All right. Um...
Hayek/ If you have questions obviously jump in.
Markus/ We also are ... are advocating a increase road and bridge funding, and that's on board
with the Metro Coalition and the League of Cities. Uh, the road use tax is expected to
generate about $6.3 million in fiscal year 2013. While that sounds like a big number, it
isn't enough to take care of the needs of our... our roadways here in town.
Um ... basically, uh, funds the operations of the Street Division and Public Works, and
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 26
provides some limited dollars for capital needs. Um, it's very slow growth in this
funding. Um, it's not kept pace with labor costs, materials, construction costs, increased
fuel, uh ... the increased fuel economy and lower car ownership rates obviously impact,
um, how much tax is being paid. Um, there's more funding being diverted from capital
projects as a result, which pushes more of the debt burden, or more of the burden to debt,
in terms of GO bonds, which is now property tax, which you know, you can see what
happens. You talk about a burden shift, a burden ... the shift away from ... from motor fuel
taxes into property taxes is what's occurred in this community, and I think about the year
I started, or just the year before, I think you raised your actual annual debt, um, ceiling
here that you had. Uh, because of some of the things that were happening around the
state, and ... and your funding sources. Um ... what else can I say about that? The road
use tax fund is projected a deficit of about $10,000 in the fiscal year, uh, 13 budget, and
um, and in fiscal year 11, our fund balance was $460,000. So that's a decrease of about
85% just in the fund balance alone for this fund. That's telling you a lot about what's
happening and the pressure that's being placed on our ... on our tax, on our fuel tax funds.
An increase fuel tax was recommended by a State Citizen Advisory Committee. You
recall that that recommendation was made to Branstad. Uh, I think he had something to
do with the appointment of the committee. Uh, however, the legislature and Governor
couldn't get this together and actually increased the gas tax. Again, we're hopeful that,
you know, a more balanced House and retaining of the, uh, Democrat - controlled Senate
might cause a little better negotiation process, not as much polarization between the two
(mumbled) Um, in terms of, uh, what we're advocating, we're advocating for an increase
that'd provide more funds, uh, not only for operations but for some capital projects. Uh,
finally, uh, we want to talk just a little bit about (mumbled) sustainable, uh, pension
systems, and this is kind of a difficult, uh, subject I think. Police and fire departments,
obviously, um, we consider them exceptionally high, um, priorities in terms of services
they deliver. Uh, we belong to a system called the 411 system, and that's a little different
system. Not all cities across the state that have police and fire are in the police and fire
system. There's certain population thresholds that have to be met before you ... you drop
into that system. Uh, actually IPERS has a system for, uh, public safety employees as
well, and that, uh, smaller jurisdictions have that. So our neighbors in Coralville and in
North Liberty are not subject to the 411. Uh, the 411 is a, um ... is a, uh ... I'd say a
generous pension system. Um, if I were, uh, police chief or the fire chief I'd say it's an
adequate system, uh, for ... for them. Um, but it's... it's... it's expensive and it's growing
more expensive rapidly. Uh, the State of Iowa phased out their contribution to the 411
system beginning in 2010, and their last contribution was in, uh, last contribution was
fiscal year 12. Uh, between fiscal year 11 and fiscal year 14, the required contribution,
Iowa City contribution, has increased 62% or approximately $1 million. Uh, unlike
IPERS, all increased costs in the pension system are the responsibility of the cities, not
shared with employees. And let me give you a little, uh, analysis on ... about what that
means. Um, in terms of, uh, like the 50- year ... fiscal year 14 projection, in terms of
IPERS, uh, the employee rate is 5.78 %. In terms of, um, municipal fire, police retirement
system, the employee rate is 9.4 %. That's... that's good! The employees are actually
kicking in more in that system. But now look at the employer rate. The employer rate
for IPERS is 8.67 %. The employer rate for the municipal fire, police system is 30.12 %.
Now that's a projection, um, based on ... I think the most recent actuarial, Kevin, uh, that
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 27
we're going to be dealing with. Um, the increase in the 14 contribution for Iowa City's
215,000 or approximately 7 -cents on our tax levy. Um, addressing pension costs should
be a strategy to consider when the state is discussing property relief as a major driver if
such increase is statewide. And significant pension reform appears unlikely this year.
Actually the way the State does this is, as I understand it, and again, I'm relatively new to
this state, but they take up pension issues every other year in the legislature. And I think
this is the off -year. Uh, this isn't the year they intend to take this issue up. So, this is a
big issue for us. Um ... you know, there's... there's, even amongst the Metro Coalition
and the Muni ... the Iowa Municipal League, um, they tend to, um, there... there's a wide
range of how they want to address this issue. Um, the most common and ... and what's
considered the easiest approach is for the State to kick in what they should be kicking in,
uh, some people would like to freeze the employer contribution, some people would like
to get closer to an IPERS situation where increases are balanced between the employer
and employee. So that it...it isn't just the burden of the employer to pick these things up.
Um, I will tell you that this is an issue that afflicted the state of Michigan for years, and
our approach, and pensions there by the way were local, which they were here, um, I
don't know how many years ago that changed. (unable to hear person away from mic)
1991! Pensions were local, managed local. Number of the pensions in Michigan are still
that way. So the approach we took, because we saw these driving costs going up, is we
started to tier the benefits, and that ... that means that as new employees come on, you
have a different set of benefits, and the theory behind that is is that a new employee that's
coming on recognizes that it's a different pension system. Um, we had difficulty, um,
and ... and of course we would have been rebuffed heavily by both the police and fire, uh,
unions in those cases, uh, to try and reduce the benefit streams for existing employees.
So our approach was, um, to ... to tier the benefits, to actually lower the benefit for new
employees coming in. Now you'll recall 1. proffered that suggestion last year at our
legislative meeting and um, the Johnson Court ... County delegation I don't think made a
single response to that idea. So, I don't suspect that that's necessarily going to go
anywhere with our delegation. I think that as these costs continue to go up, I think that
there's going to need to be some sort of solution to this issue, and I don't think it's just
going to be a state bailout. Um, I think we're going to have to work with our unions, uh,
to talk about this issue and ... and to wrap this up I would say this to you — employers can
be the most generous employers of all, and they can give employees whatever they want,
but they haven't given an employee anything if at the end of the day all you've done is
bankrupt the operation that's giving the benefit. And I can tell you that actually
happened in Michigan. So they gave away so much, I mean, look at the Big Three.
That's what happened! Benefits, um, have to be fair and benefits have to be sustainable
by the organization providing them. And, I think that that's something we have to work
on, and you know, the other big challenge, the other big push we're getting is the private
sector. The private sector looks at public sector pension systems which are typically
referred to as defined benefits systems and say, we're outta step, because there's very few
DV systems left in the private sector. They've all gone to defined contribution. And so
one of the arguments I would make ultimately to our union friends is that, you know, you
want to ... you want a benefit like this, it has to be sustainable. It has to make sense. And
if it just ... if it just keeps taking... increasing your costs, and reducing the amount of
service that the City can provide, that's not sustainable. So ... we have to do some work
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 28
with our unions. I think we have to do some work with our legislature, uh, to make some
changes in that regard. Cause it's ... it's really having an impact on our ability to provide
services and maintain our tax rates.
Throgmorton/ Tom, after how many years are our employees fully invested in the pension
system, and I know there are three different systems here. (unable to hear person away
from mic) Is that just for fire or for all employees?
Markus/ They're the same.
Throgmorton/ And what is it for AFSCME? It's the same?
Markus/ Uh, it's ... no, it's different. Kevin?
O'Malley/ (away from mic)
Hayek/ You know, we're gonna ... Marian's gonna...
Markus/ Come on up, fellas. Come on up (several talking) Please.
Rocca/ Yeah, as I mentioned the, uh, the employee who would retire with a police or fire
pension, a full pension would be 22 years of service, 55 years of age. They might vest in
the system at four or five years.
Throgmorton/ They ... they have to be 55 to retire, or have to have at least 20...20...
Rocca/ In order to retire, they have to have 55 years of age and 22 years of service, to be eligible
to draw that pension.
Hayek/ Both.
Throgmorton/ Not either or.
Rocca/ Correct.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, okay.
Markus/ Kevin, you want to address IPERS?
O'Malley/ IPERS has had some changes recently, but they used to be four years for vesting.
Now it's seven years for vesting. Uh, the ... they changed, they also changed the
retirement age. Twenty years at ... 62 years of age and 20 years of service, you can retire.
Um ... at 65 you can retire with any amount of service, and I think those are the two ... two
options. Obviously if you have disability with either system you can retire on an
accidental.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 29
Throgmorton/ Thanks. Uh, well I know we don't have much control over this but it would seem
that we would want our employees to be treated equally. That would be my...
Markus/ You know, that's ... that is one of the arguments, Jim, and I ... and I think it has some
merit. Um, the benefit streams are different. What police and fire will tell you, and
unfortunately Andy's there in the fire uniform, and ... he doesn't represent this ... this
issue. Um ... the police and fire are not eligible for Social Security, okay. So...
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Markus/ ... so there's an offset there, and IPERS employees are eligible for their IPERS pension
and they also pay into Social Security too. So, you know, I ... I don't want to give a ... a,
you know, totally slanted picture one way or the other. You have to ... you have to get
into the numbers, evaluate the numbers, and determine what those numbers mean in
terms of benefits back and forth. But ... um, I would say that I would favor more of an
equitable pension system across all employees. Now the other thing I'll tell you in terms
of this IPERS system, um, my ... my view is that the IPERS system is what I refer to as a
pretty prudent, uh, pension system, um, the way I view things, uh, from other states. Um,
I can tell you I observed some very imprudent pension systems east of here, and I think
that ... they're in huge trouble. So I think that, um, you know, IPERS ... IPERS is
relatively prudent as DB systems go. We have a couple other legislative things that we
don't have listed on our priority list, and they ... some of `em just popped today and I'm
going to have Geoff just comment on those just briefly.
Fruin/ One of the late handouts that didn't make the electronic cutoff today was a, uh, position
statement from the Iowa Recycling Association on the, um, on some changes they're
looking to make to the, uh, container deposit law this year. And so there's a, uh, there's
kind of a position statement from them and then the second is a, um, I guess a... a letter if
you will that they are asking municipalities and other organizations to sign off on. So
this is isn't, uh, a stated priority for the City, but there has been a formal request for the
Council to consider a position on this. Um, essentially what the Iowa Recycling
Association's position is that, uh, the container law should be expanded. They've, uh,
outlined here the reasons why they think it's successful, and uh, note that, uh, the
differences from when the container law was originally adopted to now. The biggest
thing being the ... the number of containers that are eligible. So when the container law
was first passed, uh, you didn't have nearly the proliferation of water and non - carbonated
beverages that, uh, are now not subject to the container law. So they're putting forward
their arguments that that should be expanded, and again, looking for support from cities
to, uh, to endorse. So we don't need to. I know this ... just popped in front of you. We
just ask that you, uh, take a look at this and ... and perhaps at next week's work session we
can see if there's an inclination to support it.
Hayek/ Okay. Thanks for, uh, thanks for all of that! Okay, let's uh ... move on to the Info Packet
discussion. There are two packets, one from November 15t', one from November 21 st
Anything on the 15th?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 30
Information Packets:
Payne/ I have a question on how to read something. The, uh...
Hayek/ Left to right! (laughter)
Payne/ Well t his one's actually (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ I got ahead of myself!
Payne/ It's the bar check, it's IP7. And, I was ... I must not have ever looked at it this closely
before, but if you go to page 5, right at the top is The Union, and it looks like the
University did, um, some checks and so did the City. So it's 5 and 1 on number of
checks, but it's 0 and 6 for the number of PAULAs. Is that because the University can't
issue a PAULA? Why is that ... why is it not...
Dilkes/ You're going to have to give me some time to ... to look at this. My computer does not
move fast enough to...
Payne/ I thought you would just know off the top of your head! (laughter)
Dilkes/ So tell me which one you're looking at again.
Payne/ So, if you look at the Union Bar, the one without the check mark.
Dilkes/ Okay.
Payne/ It's on ... on page 5.
Dilkes/ Okay.
Payne/ The second line down is the Union without the check mark. It says they had 1 bar check
but 6 PAULAs. That doesn't compute to me. (several talking) Or does that mean there
were 6...
Dilkes/ Yes, that's what that would mean.
Payne/ Wait, wait, let me get to the top here.
Dobyns/ You have to go to the top to see...
Payne/ Okay, so there was under 21 there was 1 but they issued 6 PAULAs. The first column is
the number of bar checks, I'm sorry. So if there was one under 21, why ... how did they
issue 6 PAULAs? Cause I thought a PAULA was issued if you were under 21.
Dilkes/ No, no. Under 21 and... and PAULAs are... are different charges.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 31
Payne/ Okay.
Dilkes/ Sometimes they'll issue a PAULA and not issue a 21. Sometimes given the
circumstances...
Payne/ So what does PAULA stand for?
Dilkes/ Possession of Alcohol Under Legal Age. A 21 is being in a bar when you're under 21.
You don't have to have possession of the alcohol, you just have to be present in the
establishment.
Payne/ Okay.
Dilkes/ So they're two different charges.
Payne/ Okay. So the columns are different charges then; they don't ... they don't even relate to
each other whatsoever.
Dilkes/ Well they could...
Payne/ ...they could but not necessarily!
Dilkes/ Right, right.
Payne/ Okay. That's why I was trying to understand how to read it. Thank you.
Hayek/ Is there a way ... to ... to have that, the top of those charts appear on each page? (several
talking)
Dilkes/ Yes, absolutely! We'll let the PD know.
Hayek/ Okay, other items on the Info Packet?
Payne/ (mumbled) on that one, yeah.
Dobyns/ I had a question about Idyllwild, um, during the public session, I asked the question, I
think, Geoff, we were talking about how many people purchased flood insurance, um, is
that going to be brought up in public or ... is there someone who can answer that?
Fruin/ We can. I'd defer that question to Eleanor.
Dobyns/ Okay. Um...
Fruin/ The question was how many purchased flood insurance between the 93 flood and 2008.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 32
Dilkes/ Right. You want me to answer that now or you want me to answer it at the meeting? Or
Both or...
Dobyns/ Both ... I guess. (several talking) If you can ... if..
Dilkes/ Okay. You know we can't give you an exact number. Here's the information I can give
you is that, um, we know they weren't required to have insurance, you understand that.
Okay? Um, the City, uh, provided jump -start assistance, which was assistance for repairs
to 53 Idyllwild owners, okay? And in ... in determining whether, um, an owner was
entitled to jump -start assistance you had to do an analysis of what other benefits they
would get, which of course would be insurance. Um... if we were going to give you a
completely accurate number of how many of those people had insurance, we'd have to go
back through the files and check, but we feel fairly confident that very few of those
would have had insurance, because if they had, they would not have been eligible for
jump -start.
Dobyns/ (mumbled) CDBG, jump -start, okay.
Dilkes/ Jump -start aid.
Dobyns/ Thank you.
Hayek/ You have KXIC tomorrow morning.
Throgmorton/ I do!
Hayek/ Okay, just confirm it's (mumbled) Trying to do Marian's job a little for her! Any other
items on, uh, this Info Packet? Okay. Why don't we move on to the 21St packet.
Payne/ I have one on IP5 which is the downtown parking update memo from Chris O'Brien to
Tom. They talk about having some meetings to talk about parking, but it ... there's no
evening meeting. They're all in the day. So how do ... (unable to hear person away from
mic)
Fruin/ Yeah, what we're trying to reach is the business community down there. We will put the,
uh, information online and ... and what Chris and I decided is that if there's significant
interest from the public and they're not able to attend and ... and we're made aware of
that, then we can always schedule additional ones. We just weren't... weren't quite sure
what the ... interest would be and, uh, in that type of evening meeting, but um, there's no
harm in doing additional ones if there's a demand there, but primarily this was to educate
the ... the business community on what was going on. It is open to the general public
though.
Payne/ Thank you.
Hayek/ Other questions on the 21St? It's great to get that recognition on the budget.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 33
Markus/ Yeah, we were really surprised, uh, that it happened the first year, and quite frankly we
were really happy for Kevin and his staff, uh, to achieve that, um. It's just really rare that
you go after that and get it in the first year, so um ... unfortunately it happens in Kevin's
swan song and ... and...
Throgmorton/ Maybe it's a good way to go out!
Markus/ Yeah, it's a great way to go out, you know...
Hayek/ If we don't get it next year, I guess that shows you... (both talking)
Markus/ ...our bond rating gets dinged, you know, everybody'll be saying, where's Kevin?
Never happened on his watch! (laughter)
Champion/ It wouldn't either! (laughs)
Council Time:
Hayek/ Okay, Council time. Okay. Pending work session topics, IP4.
Pending Work Session Tonics (04):
Throgmorton/ I have two suggestions. The more I read about gap financing, and ... and try to
analyze that material, the more I think I really don't understand it, and I don't know if the
rest of you are in the same position, cause you know I have my own background, uh, if
enough of you are in the same position, I'd really like to have a work session focused
explicitly on that, so I can know ... I really understand how to read an interpret those
documents.
Markus/ Let me make a suggestion. Jeff, um, Tom Jackson, is he going to be out here for the
December 18th meeting?
Davidson/ Yes he is.
Markus/ Okay. Why don't we, um, do a work session in advance of the meeting, and have Tom
walk us through gap financing and how it works.
Davidson/ Sure, that'd be good.
Throgmorton/ That'd be great.
Davidson/ I'll confirm that he's available, but I'm assuming he is.
Markus/ You were pretty confident though he was coming out.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 34
Davidson/ Yeah, pretty sure. He indicated...
Markus/ We had a ... we had a conversation with him today and ... you know, the nuances of
looking at each of those individual finalists, it... it's difficult to do an apples -to- apples
comparison. So what we're doing is we're evaluating the ASK, we're evaluating the
potential tax stream, and then the amortization of that ASK, meaning TIF, um, to achieve
those things, and I think ... I think you'll find Tom, uh, pretty comforting in how he goes
about that. But it's like ... it's like computing the unfunded accrued liability in a pension
system. You know, there' s assumptions that are made and those assumptions are critical
to what derives the gap. And if you understand those, that might help inform you but
it's ... it's not a perfect science, Jim. It's ... there is room for...
Throgmorton/ All I know is uh, to use one instance, I was looking at one of the proposals, it
doesn't need to be named, and I saw that there was an entry there for TIF, an entry for,
um, the purchase price for the property, an entry for some, a couple other sources of
public funding, and an entry for the gap that needed to be financed. So I thought gap?
What gap? You're already getting all this other public funding, or asking for all this
other public funding, so I, you know, I felt very insecure about that.
Markus/ Yeah, and one thing I would say to you too is we do this Economic Development
Committee and Tom does evaluations on our projects that the EDC reviews as a part of
that, and so we're asking those questions as we go through the EDC to ... to make that
happen. We recently had one where the gap was half a million dollars and our offer was
400 and the developer was asking for 800. So ... you know, we ... we try to take a fairly
conservative approach to these things, and we're trying to review these on a project basis
to ... to see if the numbers make sense. And then we get to a developer's agreement to
assure minimum assessments, and we put other provisions in there to make those things
happen, but... it's... it's not ... it's not readily apparent how all that works and I think Tom
could help inform us.
Hayek/ So you ... he'll be added to the work session on the...
Markus/ If that's ... can we do that? Marian, do we got enough time to do that on that session?
Hayek/ I'm a little reluctant to add a, yet another stand -alone meeting. We've got so many right
now and it'd be a scheduling nightmare. But it...it would probably be a good start at
least to get Tom...
Davidson/ I think Tom could give you an excellent presentation in 15 or 20 minutes.
Markus/ I do too.
Throgmorton/ That'd be helpful. I just don't want to think of it as black box that I completely do
not understand. That's not a good position to be in.
Markus/ That's fine.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 35
Dobyns/ Yeah, I can't comment, Jim, until I understand it a little bit. (laughter)
Markus/ Well, Tom ... Tom, I think, will be able to inform you a great deal. He's ... he's very
easy to, um listen to and understand. He can break it down.
Hayek/ Yeah, I think after it I think we'll have somewhat better of an understanding, but
ultimately it's ... it's high level math. It's a ... and I think we'll continue to rely heavily
on ... on staff, which in turn relies on ... on outside consultants. It's one of those areas.
Karr/ So that will be the work session prior to the formal on the 18`h, where action is
contemplated on the award?
Hayek/ I think the work session's sort of a general primer. (several talking) Anything else?
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I wanted to bring up one other thing just to see if you all have any interest
in this, uh, at our, uh, in our, uh, the packet for the November 13th meeting, uh, there was
a draft resolution, we were given a draft resolution concerning requiring mandatory
labeling of food that had been genetically modified. And (several talking) prepared by
the staff but it was in the Info Packet, and I ... I'm just wondering if y'all have any interest
in discussing that topic as, uh, as a part of a work session.
Dobyns/ What were they asking us to do?
Throgmorton/ Uh, labeling.
Karr/ It was correspondence received in the Consent Calendar for that meeting.
Throgmorton/ Right with a draft resolution associated with it.
Karr/ Yes.
Throgmorton/ Right.
Markus/ To oppose genetically altered food. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ yeah, well, not so much to oppose it, at least if I remember it correctly. It was to
support labeling of... of food that had been genetically modified.
Payne / And we got all those hundreds of emails this last time, within the last week about this. Is
this something we can do at a local level? I mean, that's what my thought was on getting
all those emails is this really something that can be done at a local level?
Dobyns/ I think it's a jurisdictional issue. Our Hy -Vees would label but no other Hy -Vees
would? I mean, I...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 36
Dilkes/ I think what we would...
Dobyns/ ...trying to figure out how we'd operationalize that based on jurisdictional issues, like
Michelle said.
Dilkes/ I think what we'd have to do is if the ... if the Council expressed an interest in doing it
then we'd have to do the research to determine whether we had the authority to do it.
Markus/ Tech... technically though isn't that an FDA issue that the FDA would require that kind
of.. .
Dilkes/ Well, I mean, that's the ... that's the issue I'd have to look at. There would be issues of
state preemption and issues of federal preemption.
Markus/ Yeah.
Dobyns/ I think it's at that level myself, um. ... I mean, I ... I understand sometimes cities have to
be part of the grassroot ground swell toward state and federal level legislation. I just
don't think I personally have ... I'm not that concerned myself. From a scientific point of
view. Um, so I guess I, and also from a jurisdictional point of view as well.
Dickens/ I don't have any strong opinions on it.
Throgmorton/ Asked and answered! (laughter)
Hayek/ I'll ... I'll look at it again. I haven't ... (several talking) Yeah. No, I know and I've got
(several talking) 50 and 100 emails over it. Um...
Payne/ At 3:00 in the morning! (laughter)
Champion/ That's the problem with email! (laughter and several talking)
Meeting Schedule:
Hayek/ Okay. Uh, meeting schedule?
Karr/ Um, I have one real quickly. I'd like to firm up tonight the City ... the Council meeting
with area legislators. You had tentatively agreed to Thursday, January 3rd, at 7:30 in the
morning. Then I, um, contacted each of you and came up with a couple other dates, noon
on Friday the 7d' or noon on Monday January 7t ". December 7t" and January 7t ". I've
heard back and putting it shortly the 7:30 Thursday January 3rd, out of the five legislators
I've heard from, three cannot make it, so I would not suggest meeting at that time. Um,
out of the five I've heard from, four can come noon December 7t ", which is next Friday.
Payne That would be before our afternoon meeting.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 37
Karr/ That's correct. But if we're going to do that, I think it's imperative that we decide this
evening, um, so I can get the materials out this week for next week's meeting. Um...
Throgmorton/That's our roughly five hour meeting, Friday afternoon?
Payne/ I thought it was only going to be a couple hours. (several talking)
Karr/ I think we were scheduled 1:00 to 3:00, no later than 3:30.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Karr/ So this starts at noon.
Throgmorton/ Well that wouldn't be so bad.
Hayek/ Which I think is more time than we need anyway.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Payne/Fm okay...
Karr/ So are we okay with noon on December 7`h? I know the one Council Member that had a
conflict, Terry (coughing, unable to hear) but the rest of you indicated that was a
possibility when I last talked to you.
Champion/ I would hate it, but I can do it.
Dickens/ They're all bad for me so...
Payne/ Could we get Hilltop for lunch?
Throgmorton/ There's a good idea! (laughs)
Karr/ Is that a yes?
Throgmorton/ I ... I don't have my calendar in front of me, but I think it's all right.
Karr/ It's a yes? Okay (several talking) I'll confirm then with the ... with the legislature then.
Champion/ Are we confirming the Hilltop or are we (several talking)
Karr/ I'll change the, uh, tentative meeting schedule, cause we had that January 3rd. So that'll
open up January 3rd
Payne/ So that's going to be...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.
November 27, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 38
Upcoming Events / Council Invitations:
Hayek/ So if you're really hung over, you'll have an extra day to recover. Uh (laughter) Okay.
Upcoming events, Council invites? I'll be, uh, ringing the Salvation Army bell in a
couple of days, uh, at the Waterfront Hy -Vee.
Champion/ Good for you!
Hayek/ Mayors ... uh, Thursday.
Payne/ This coming Thursday?
Hayek/ Yeah.
Payne / What time did you say?
Hayek/ Noon to 2:00, I think.
Payne/ I'll come and hackle you!
Hayek/ And then, uh, the Mayors of Coralville and North Liberty will be at their respective Hy-
Vees ... doing the same.
Dobyns/ Thank you.
Champion/ Yes, thanks!
Throgmorton/ Next Tuesday before the work session I'm going to meet with a group of Cub
Scout students and bring `em in here, into this room. Tom, I might, uh, walk `em down
toward your office and...
Markus/ Glad to have `em come in!
Throgmorton/ Say hi or something like that.
Hayek/ I came here as a Cub Scout. Asked some very important questions about urban renewal
and ... (several talking and laughing)
Dobyns/ And look where you ended up? Ringing a bell at Hy -Vee (laughter)
Hayek/ Exactly! All right! Good work session. We'll, uh, end this meeting and come back for
the formal in a few minutes.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 27, 2012.