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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-12-04 TranscriptionDecember 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1 Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton Staff Present: Markus, Dilkes, Jordan, Karr, Fruin, Dulek, Davidson, Fosse, Bentley, Reinhart, Rocca, Goodman, Grier, Moran Agenda Items• Hayek/ Have anything? Payne/ I have several. Hayek/ Go for it! ITEM 9. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED "POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "ANIMAL CONTROL," TO ESTABLISH A PERMIT PROCESS FOR URBAN CHICKENS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION) ITEM 10. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING AN URBAN CHICKEN POLICY. Payne/ Okay, my first one is on the urban chicken policy on, uh, item 10. So is this on the agenda for tonight? Hayek/ Yes. Markus/ Yes. Payne/ And ... there's a section that says their ... the permit granted/denied, and then there's six things under there. And then the next section is neighbor consent. Shouldn't that neighbor consent be underneath the permit granted or denied? I mean, why ... I guess why is neighbor consent in a different section, because... isn't that saying it won't be granted? Dulek/ I just did it to emphasize it. I didn't want to bury it. Payne/ Okay. Dulek/ That's the only reason. It certainly can be but I just ... that's the only reason. Payne/ I... okay. Thank you very much! Champion/ I was just glad to see it in there! Payne/ Um... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 2 Hayek/ By the way, we'll need a motion at, when we get to ... whatever the first item is ... to move 9 and 10 up for discussion. Of all three at the same time, and then we'll vote on `em separately (away from mic) Champion/ Nine and ten? Hayek/ Well, yeah, it's... whatever, uh, I'm sorry ... yeah, 6e and then 9 and then 10. Karr/ So we'll discuss all of the chicken items together. Hayek/ When we get to 6e, why doesn't somebody move... Champion/ Okay. Hayek/ ...that we (several talking) Champion/ I'll do it! Dobyns/ Okay. Champion/ 6e, okay. Got it! Dobyns/ 9 and 10. Champion/ A, b, c, d, e. Throgmorton/ So, with regard to the policy, I intend to move that we amend the resolution to have the section titled "Neighbor Consent" automatically expire after two years, unless there has been a substantial and documented record of difficulty with chickens, and uh, once it has expired the, uh, it would be replaced by a new section titled, I guess, "Neighbor Consultation" which would stipulate the procedure specified (mumbled) draft of the policy, or what we'd earlier talked about. So I ... I'm gonna move that. I kinda doubt that there's a majority in favor of it, but I'm going to make that motion during... Dobyns/ You know, it'd sort of be like a sunshine on the (several talking) veto portion of (several talking) or sunshine. Or sun down (laughter) Champion/ What if there's a new neighbor then? Throgmorton/ Well, I ... I ... that ... that was an issue with regard to the policy anyhow, you know, what if there's a new neighbor. Champion/ Well the new neighbor would have the chickens there and they would still be able to keep their permit ... until it was time to be renewed. That was made pretty clear, I thought. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 3 Throgmorton/ I ... maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I'm not saying anything about eliminating the permit. I'm saying that the, uh, the requirement that neighbors be permitted to, um, to veto any ... any possible chicken coop be, um, sunsetted after two years, that ... that... Champion/ For everybody? Or for just that one ... for just a particular permit? Throgmorton/ For everybody. For ... for the policy. Champion/ No, okay. All right. Throgmorton/ Policy to ... to remove the neighbor consent. Champion/ Okay, I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you were saying. Dobyns/ And is the policy for three years, if I recall? You get the permit, is it for... Hayek/ The permit's for three years. Markus/ (mumbled) ... for three. Dobyns/ (mumbled) Dilkes/ The policy lasts until Coun... Council changes it. And, Jim, I would suggest that when you make your motion for a sunset you don't... a sunset should be very clear, um, you know, I'd say just three years. Then if...if Council believes that there's a substantial problem with chickens then they can ... they can eliminate the sunset but having a sunset that is not definite is going to be very difficult to administer. Throgmorton/ But I ... um, thanks for the clarity but I ... I do intend to, for the motion to indicate the neighbor, the required neighbor consent would go away after, what I said was two years. Dilkes/ Period? Throgmorton/ Period. Dilkes/ That's fine. Dobyns/ It ... it's my intent to, you know, second Jim's motion, um, and my sense of it is it's a petition back to, at least some of you (laughs) you know to consider, um, the veto as something that, rather than just letting it go in perpetuity, but just giving it some time to see how it works out, and then, you know, in other words if we all think it's good at the end of two years, whoever's sitting at this table, that we'd have to be active in continuing it. Dilkes/ Right. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 4 Dobyns/ And it's just ... it's just sort of a different way of looking at it, but that's (mumbled) Mims/ I'll support it as well. Payne/ I will not. Champion/ I will not (laughs) Mims/ I know. I didn't get to you this week! (laughter) ITEM 11. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED "POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "ANIMAL CONTROL" AND TITLE 10, ENTITLED "PUBLIC WAYS AND PROPERTY," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED "CITY PLAZA," AND CHAPTER 9, ENTITLED "PARKS AND RECREATION REGULATIONS," TO ALLOW DOGS IN CITY PLAZA, TO PROHIBIT DOGS IN SIDEWALK CAFES, AND TO ALLOW DOGS TO BE OFF LEASH IN ALL DOG PARKS. (PASS AND ADOPT) Champion/ Urn ... I just wanted to bring up the business about the dogs in the ped mall, cause I had several people comment about it. Did we get any feedback from the Parks and Recs Commission on those dogs that has park property? Markus/ Go ahead. Fruin/ Not the commission per se, but we worked with the Parks Department and their staff, and they're... we're working on a plan now to, you know, install the ... the mutt mitt type of, uh ... um, baggy dispensers in some key locations down there. So, not the Parks Commission, Connie, but the Parks staff. Champion/ Okay, okay. And that would take care of excrement but what about urine? Has that been talked about at all? I've not read all those minutes or anything. Fruin/ Yeah, no it's ... it came up quite a bit in the discussions with the Downtown District and it's a concern that everybody has, but, um, frankly it's uh ... it's no different than Washington Street or Dubuque Street right now. Like a sidewalk, uh, downtown where the dogs are permitted and that they do frequent. Um, you have that issue now. One thing that, uh, I think will help the matter is that we've recently partnered with the Downtown District for increased pressure washing of the sidewalks and the ped mall, so prior to this year we were only doing that once per year, in the springtime. The Downtown District has now contributed to that. The City's put in some additional funds, and that's going to occur anywhere from three to five or six times per year, depending on what location you are downtown. I think the ped mall itself is scheduled to get four, three or four pressure washings a year. So that'll help. That's certainly something we'll have to monitor and track. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 5 Payne/ I still have a couple questions on the chicken policy. Champion/ Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were done. Payne/ That's okay! Um, on page 4 of the policy ... um, #6 at the very top. And maybe this is just words, but within once weekly doesn't seem to make sense to me. Fecal matter may be used as fertilizer if turned completely into the soil within once weekly. Hayek/ It's a typo. Payne/ Should it be like "at least once weekly," or ... within once weekly just doesn't... Dilkes/ It probably should be "at least." Payne/ Okay. Hayek/ And there's probably a second typo there toward the end of that sentence too. Did you see that? Payne / And there is no ... (several talking) Hayek/ Maybe it's not. If (both talking) Payne/ That should be "order," or "odor" not order (laughter) You're right! That is a typo. Hayek/ Yeah. Payne/ That should be odor. Dilkes/ Those are typos. We'll just change `em. You don't need to amend. (laughter and several talking) Payne/ I was hung up on the within once weekly (laughs) and then my last question is ... the fees. I thought we were going to change the fees so the initial permit fee was $100, but that that $100 lasted for all three years of the permit. Throgmorton/ That's the way I understood it. Payne/ But this says the fee to renew the permit is $75. So does that mean in the fourth year it will be $75? Dilkes/ Yes. Markus/ Yes. Payne/ Okay. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 6 Hayek/ Which I think is consistent with what we... Payne/ So some place ... I guess I just don't remember, some place it does say that the permit is valid for three years? Hayek/ On Item 9. The permit process. Dilkes/ The ordinance also says three years. Payne/ Okay. Okay. That is 100% of my questions. Dobyns/ Is that noxious or is that okay? Payne/ Obnoxious! (laughs) Throgmorton/ I'd like to bring up something. Hayek/ Go ahead, Jim. ITEM 6c CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 1.02 ACRES OF LAND LOCATED ON 1sT AVENUE NORTH OF ROCHESTER AVENUE FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL(RS -5) TO LOW- DENSITY MULTI - FAMILY RESIDENTIAL (RM -12). (REZ12- 00025) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) [Discussion only at formal meeting] Throgmorton/ Um, I ... I'd like to make a request with regard to Item 6c, which is a rezoning. don't want to discuss it or anything (several talking) Hayek/ No, that's a motion. No, that's, uh ... that's second consideration. Throgmorton/ Yeah, on Rochester. I don't want to make, uh, have any discussion about it, I just want to ask Jeff if he could do something during the public meeting. So, uh, my request is that you be able to show an aerial view of it and help us see precisely where the 20 -foot buffer would be between the development and Hickory Hill Park? Davidson/ Okay. I will have to run upstairs and get that to put it on because I didn't (both talking) Throgmorton/ ...don't have to do it during this meeting. I just mean when ... when we're voting is what I was thinking. Davidson/ Right. Right, tonight. Yeah, I'll try and get that on. Is there any other Planning and Zoning stuff you want to see, because I don't have anything on the machine tonight cause it's all either setting hearings or repeat items. Anything else you want to see? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 7 Throgmorton/ With regard to that specific point, I'd also like you to be able to clarify where the building would be relative to the building adjacent to it on the south. I'm sorry! Yeah, on the south side of it. Davidson/ South, okay. Throgmorton/ Uh, and ... uh ... and the trees that are ... that persons referred to last time. Davidson/ Okay, so where the new building is, visa vie the existing building to the south, the trees to the south. Throgmorton/ Yeah, the trees that are between the ... the existing building and the proposed (both talking) Davidson/ Yeah, and then show on an aerial where the buffer is located. Throgmorton/ Yeah. Davidson/ The buffer to the park I assume you're talking about. Between the park and the parking lot. Throgmorton/ Yes. Davidson/ Okay. We can do that, Jim. Thanks. Hayek/ When we get to that point and we ... and we start the discussion, if one of you would indicate for the audience that this request was made, so that the audience knows that we had this discussion. Davidson/ I'll get up at the beginning of the item. Throgmorton/ Okay. Hayek/ And add... and to add on to this, I don't... Eleanor, I don't know if you will allow me right now to talk about it or if you prefer that I wait ... I have a comment/concern about the request for expedited action ... on this item. Would you prefer that I... Dilkes/ No, I think if we're going to have a policy of not talking about these items until the formal we should stick to that. Hayek/ Let's do that then. Okay! Other agenda items? Okay. Let's move on to the discussion regarding the request to endorse the Iowa Recycling Association legislative position on Iowa's container law, found at IP3. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 8 Iowa Recycling Association Legislative Position on Iowa Container Law (IP3): Throgmorton/ So I'll bite, just to get the conversation going. I think we ought to support it. Champion/ I don't have any problems supporting it. Dobyns/ It looks like it's just a ... updating with reality. Champion/ Right. Payne/ Yes. I agree. Hayek/ Are there any pros or cons that staff wants us to be aware of as we look at this? Markus/ Well I would say that we don't wish to, um, compare this to our priorities, so ... we will endorse the organization that's going to support this, but we will not, uh, be out actively lobbying this issue. Throgmorton/ Understood! Hayek/ And can we make a direct tie to, uh, City infrastructure, City assets, you know... Markus/ In terms of... Hayek/ Well as a ... in terms of (both talking) Markus/ ...the impact on the city? Hayek/ The propriety of us weighing in on ... on an issue (both talking) Markus/ ...less litter, there's less you know environmental (both talking) impact on our river and streams and... Payne/ And would it be less stuff (both talking) in the landfill? Markus/ ...less impact on your landfill, so... Hayek/ I think the ties are multiple, but I think it's important to, uh, highlight those. Okay, any concerns about endorsing? Mims/ No, not at all. Hayek/ Okay. Okay! Uh, next item is discussion on Jim Throgmorton's suggested activities related to the decision not to proceed with the Taft levee, that's IP4. (mumbled) are you, A (mumbled) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 9 Council Member Thromorton's ... decision not to proceed with Taft Speedway levee (IP4): Throgmorton/ I don't know but I ... I guess I can say a couple or three words, um ... the ... the three bulleted items at the end of the memo are, as with the rest of the memo, things I said during the meeting last week. Uh, and at the time there was a request that I ... I think from Marian, maybe from Eleanor, that I make that available. Uh, so I did, and now it's in our ...in our file and all that. Uh, it does seem to me that these are things that we should discuss, but I don't know if the rest of you really want to proceed, so we should just find out. If you want I can go over each of `em but uh, I assume you've all had a chance to read them. Dobyns/ I just sort of have a ... operational question, I mean, I'm looking at the three bullets at the end of Jim's memo, um, if we like them we would then, you know, if there's enough of us we would encourage City staff to take a closer look, because I noticed there's no City staff, uh, information. And that's (several talking) that's a Council decision for this discussion. Okay. Whether we want to go (several talking) okay, all right. Throgmorton/ Yeah, and I make no claim to know what the financial or legal viability of these suggestions is. So I ... I was simply hoping that we could ... we could instruct the City Manager and the City Attorney to look into the financial and legal viability. Dilkes/ Well I can certainly give you my legal, you know, kind of ..initial reaction to 'em ... now and I can also look at them in more detail if Council wants to do that. Hayek/ Can you ... well how about the first bullet point — do you have a quick answer on ... on that? Flood insurance requirement. Dilkes/ Let me just ... I think that Jim had shared these with staff earlier, um, and Tom had asked me for my, um, thoughts from a legal perspective. Um ... and at that time I said, and I still continue to believe, that its ... we're talking now about compensating ... we're moving away from mitigation of...of, uh, flood, the risk of flooding, and we're not talking really about mitigating the risk of flooding anymore. Um, which is what the focus of all our other efforts have been, and that ... that's okay if Council wants to go that way. Um, but I think it is ... I think you have to think about the precedent that you'd be setting when you're talking about compensating Idyllwild homeowners for the loss of value, uh, based on Council's earlier approval of the development. Uh, the City has no liability for that decision. Um, I think that's quite clear if you look at the immunities under the State code as to the City's liability and I think we would have a ... a very solid defense to any such claim. Um, and then I was asked whether, um, or I think Jim asked whether we could condition a payment, um ... by the City on the ... on the property owner obtaining flood insurance. We have done that in the past with jump -start funds. We ... we had, we required that they demonstrate anybody getting that money demonstrate that they had insurance. Um, I ... I think the concern with that though here ... is that, um, the need for flood insurance, um, is quite apparent and I think it's fairly clear at this point that the owners at Idyllwild, as well as the homeowner's association have flood insurance. So I don't think you ... you get... accomplish much by that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 10 Throgmorton/ (mumbled) I'm sorry, go ahead. Mims/ I guess as I look at the three of them, um, to me singling out one particular area to require flood insurance, um, doesn't make sense. I think given our episodes in 93 and 2008, I think people in the area are ... for those two floods, pretty well aware of...of their risk in terms of, uh, being flooded, and I think that that is on the homeowners, you know, and their mortgage companies and stuff as to whether or not, you know, they're going to require the insurance and ... and for the homeowners to do that. I don't think that's an area that the City, urn ... unless there's something statewide that's required, I don't see that as something we should be getting into, and particularly, uh, singling out one particular development. Um, on the second bullet, I am not at all comfortable with setting some sort of precedent of compensation, um, in terms (mumbled) I mean I, is very, very unfortunate situation. The fact that the ownership structure. That there was no buyout. You know, that's all very unfortunate, but to try to come up with something, uh, in terms of compensation, I'm very, very concerned about the precedent, and I don't see how it can be done fairly. So I'm not at all interested in either the first two bullets. The third one in terms of instructing staff to look at alternatives for that CDBG money that will not now be going to that levee, I would definitely support. Champion/ I agree with Susan. Throgmorton/ Can I ... can I make a clarification with regard to the second point. Um ... first with regard to the legal liability point that Eleanor rightly raises, uh, just for the record, I'm making no suggestion whatsoever that the City should assume or has any legal liability with regard to this. I think we share an ethical responsibility, along with various other people who have made serious mistakes in the Idyllwild area and ... in all sorts of ways with regard to flooding and ... and so on. Uh, so ... it seems to me we should ... we have ...we should share in the responsibility of, uh, helping people recover from that particular event. Now with regard to, uh ... uh ... providing compensation or assistance, I tried to distinguish between two types of, uh, condo owners in the area. I hope it's clear in the memo but maybe it's not. So I tried to distinguish between people who bought condos before the flood, suffered significant damage, uh... con... continued to own... wanted a buyout but couldn't get one, and continued to own the condos (mumbled) after 2008. That's one group. The other group basically are people who bought af...after the flood. I mean that's the way I was trying to think of it. So the first set of people, it seems to me, got trapped in a ... in a nasty situation, and ... and weren't able to take advantage of the buyout offers, weren't able to do (mumbled) an official offer, but weren't able to take advantage of buyout opportunities, and so on, and so I was trying to devise a way in which we could assist those people who got trapped in that situation. That's what I had in mind. Markus/ There's another group though isn't there? There's the group of people, um, that suffered damage and actually lost their homes, who probably have at least the same or even greater equitable, uh, demand on the City, if in fact we're going to proceed to give people $40,000 per unit, that still happen to be there. Some suffered, um, serious consequences... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1 I Mims / And sold! Markus/ ...and as a result, uh, either sold or lost, uh, their particular property, so... Throgmorton/ Fair enough. Markus/ ...we're going to get into some serious equity questions, I would guess, as this thing progresses if we went down that path. Throgmorton/ Yeah, I think your point's a good one, and just, with regard to the $40,000 figure, you know, I don't have anything strong to base that on. It was a... a back -of -the- envelope calculation kind of number I was using, just to get some sense of what ... what the cost might be. Markus / And ... and I understand this is for discussion purposes, but I ... I would also suggest that whether we declare a legal, uh, responsibility or the lack of a legal responsibility, and just make it an ethical claim, it probably still has precedential impact, uh, for other areas of similar or future similar situations. Champion/ Well there were a lot of place flooded and they didn't all qualify for buyouts, and I think you're just getting into very dangerous waters here. And I'm not willing to do it. Literally dangerous water! (laughter) Hayek/ Yeah, yeah, I ... I guess I agree on ... in terms of.. of some sort of financial compensation to ... to this particular population, um ... I think that's a risky, uh, endeavor for the City to undertake. Um ... there were plenty of people who were affected, as Tom said, in different ways during the floods of 08, and in the floods of 93, um, I think this opens up, uh, the discussion, uh, if for these folks why not for ... for these other folks, um, and you know, at the end of the day what the City's, uh, policy has been all along is to assist with the response. It's not even a policy. It's just what our past practice has been to assist with the response to flooding, uh, to assist with the recovery in the ... in the short-term aftermath following a flood, and then to work on mitigation, and mitigation involves permanent protection. Um ... um, and ... and all of those things protect against flooding, and ... and a cash outlay, uh, that ... that does nothing to, uh, protect against a future flood or mitigate a future flood, um, would be a departure I think from... from what we have done and open up the door to ... to, um, various interpretations or claims for ... for relief, um, and I think it would be...it would open up the door for ... for that sort of stuff in the event of yet another event. Um, so that's how I feel about the second bullet point. The ...the third one, um, I mean, I ... it's my understanding that staff is already exploring alternatives... Markus/ Yes we are. Hayek/ ...you know, we've got potentially this money to be allocated elsewhere, which formed part of the decision of... of at least certain members of the Council, and I think staff is ... is pursuing that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 12 Markus/ Yeah, and ... in fact we took that direction from I think the last Council meeting to pursue that, and staff has been in contact with the appropriate agencies, to see if those funds could be reallocated. In some instances it was no, and in some instances it's maybe not quoting them but maybe it's a `maybe,' and so we continue to pursue those and uh, that may allow us to redistribute dollars into other projects as a result of...of using funds in this fashion. Hayek/ I would ... I would be reluctant to ... there are, as I understand it, three criteria that apply. Markus/ Yes. Hayek/ Low, mod - income is one of them, and I wouldn't want to tie our hands as we look for ways to reallocate the $8 million. Throgmorton/ I thought the first two were both low ... low to mod-in ... moderate income. Markus/ Slum and blight. Throgmorton/ ...urgent need. Markus / And urgent need. Hayek/ Well, there ... there must be enough of a distinction for them to have three separate criteria, and I ... I just ... I would want to have the flexibility as staff explores ways to expend the $8 million if we can in fact do so. Um ... and ... and for them to come back to us with options, uh, whatever they may be, before we... Dobyns/ Cause the availability of the funds is a ... is mysterious anyway, putting a further constraint on it might be a problem. (several responding) Markus/ I ... I think our limitations, um, or our options used, the dollars are going to be limited, and so I don't think your ... you're going to see a whole lot of alternative availability of how those funds could be used, if they determine that they can be used on another project to begin with. Dickens/ cause there were still questions on whether we would get this initial. Hayek/ But for example, if one of those possibilities would only really be triggered under the slum and blight criterion, I wouldn't want us to have foreclosed that as a possibility... Throgmorton/ Well I'd agree with that (several responding) Hayek/ ...in advance, so I'd prefer to just keep it open- ended. Mims/ Just ... explore alternative uses of the money. Period. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 13 Hayek/ On the first bullet point, the flood insurance, is ... putting aside limiting it to a certain neighborhood, is ... is that the kind of requirement that cities impose generally within flood plains or... Dilkes/ No. Champion/ No. Usually the banks (both talking) Dilkes/ ...the requirement for flood insurance is a federal (several talking) Mims/ I'm sorry, wait. What did you finish saying? Dilkes/ That that's regulated at the federal level. Markus/ Yes. Mims/ Okay. Thanks. Throgmorton/ But not with regard to particular places. I mean, or help me understand. How is it regulated at the federal level with regard to... Dilkes/ In certain situations as we explained in that recent memo, the federal law requires that you have flood insurance. Hayek/ I'd also say this, um, to the extent that it's regulated at the federal level, I think it's risky for us to impose federal regulations locally, and even rec ... in the last two or three weeks I saw some, uh, media coverage of the federal flood insurance program itself. Its solvency has ... has been called into question. I think it's running in the red. And ... and the recent natural disasters will probably, uh, stress that fund even more, and there are some who call for the elimination of that program or a mod... a huge modification of it. So I mean, do we want to get into that when there's... Payne/ And certainly Idyllwild isn't the only place in the city that has buildings in the 100 -year flood plain or the 500 -year flood plain, so whatever it is, whatever we call that area, why would we single out one area and require it? Markus/ I think that you may, Jim, get to the same point that you're trying to get to, but I think you have to think about it differently. A number of these projects have multiple sources of funding, and to the extent that we can retain CDBG, federal dollars, in another project may reduce the reliance on another of the sources of funding which then could be (both talking) refunneled someplace else. So the key (several talking) from my perspective is to be able to save those dollars and use them on another, um, eligible project, as determined by the fed and state. Throgmorton/ Totally agree, yeah. I ... I don't quite understand the discussion with regard to flood insurance though. Uh, if...if the national program is at risk, then everyone who This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 14 lives within some kind of flood plain is ultimately at risk. I mean, if that program goes away, they are at risk. So, and ... because private insurers have made it very clear they are not going to provide private insurance. Tell me if I'm wrong about this. Champion/ They don't. Throgmorton/ That's what I understand. Markus/ Well, yeah, and I think what's happening right now as we approach the fiscal cliff, everything is being tossed out as potential ways to reduce the deficit and deal with those issues. So, I think there's a lot of proffering of different suggestions and testing different things, uh, as that debate goes forward, but uh, with the number of natural disasters that have occurred within the last decade, you know, the costs just keep mounting and so I think everybody looks at, you know, what discretionary funds, um, you have to cut and so they start to look at just about every available program, and you know, you've heard the same conversation about mortgage deductibility too and ... and so it gets to the point of, well, what does ... what does it take to get this thing straightened out at the federal level, and then they start looking at programs and the dollars that are allocated to those programs to determine, you know, what in fact we can cut to ... to make that happen and get some sort of consensus between the two parties to make it work. So you're going to hear a lot of different alternative approaches I suspect until there's some sort of, uh, resolution if there is one. Payne / And so let's just say we did put it in our city code. And then there is no such thing as flood insurance anymore because there is no federal program. Then what, we take it out of our code? I mean, it's not really our job to tell them to have flood insurance. At the local level. Throgmorton/ What ... what I'm trying to avoid and I won't make a huge deal out of this, what I'm trying to avoid is the situation that occurred right after 2008 when people said, I didn't know I needed to have flood insurance; the banks didn't require me to have flood insurance on my mortgage; uh, the realtors didn't ... they told me I didn't, there wasn't any flood insurance available or I didn't need it — all those kinds of things. People've said it over and over again, you know, in the time we've been looking at this particular topic. We could cut to the quick and say you gotta have flood insurance. Payne/ You going to tell everybody in the city that? Dilkes/ Can I ... can I interrupt for one minute? When I answered the question... your proposal was to condition the receipt of monies on ... on having flood insurance. I ... I think that is doable, like we did with jump -start, but that's a completely different thing than a requirement in our code that has flood insurance, that requires flood insurance and I am not all ... this may be completely academic, because I am not at all sure that that's something that we could do. It's ... it's quite likely that there's a federal preemption issue there. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 15 Throgmorton/ If... if we proceed, I certainly want you to look into that more carefully, but I gather we're not going to... Dickens/ But do you have to word it more as a recommendation, that anybody lives in that area should get flood insurance, not mandate it. Because it's still an option for them whether they're financial institution makes `em or their insurance company makes `em do it. And after this not being able to put a levee around there that most of those people will go get it on their own as a recommendation. If they don't, it's like the people that didn't take the buyout. If they get flooded again, if...they have the insurance they're covered, but ... you know, we can't buy em out after this last flood. So ... I guess it would be, put it more as a recommendation — any area that's in the 100...a I00 -year flood plain we strongly recommend that you get it. I don't know that you can force `em to. But most financial institutions won't give you a loan anymore unless you do have that insurance. But at that time, it wasn't a consideration for most of those people when they bought it, in that area, back in 98. Hayek/ Well okay, why don't we reach a conclusion on these three bullet points. Payne/ I'm ... I agree with #3, or the three, third, the last bullet. Mims/ But not limited to low to moderate (both talking) other options are available for the CDBG money (several talking) Champion/ Right! Markus/ Got it! Hayek/ But as to the other bullet points, there does not appear to be interest in ... in moving further. Okay. Well, Jim, I appreciate you bringing these (mumbled) cause I think it forced an interesting, uh, and important discussion. Okay, let's move on to, uh, plastic bag ban request. Plastic Bag Ban: Fosse/ Good evening! Throgmorton/ Hi, Rick! Fosse/ Talk about those pesky plastic bags, uh, for a while! Uh, you've heard a community comment a couple times in... in recent weeks about plastic bags and... and requesting Iowa City to consider a ban on those, and ... and hardly a year goes by where we don't, uh, get that request in one form or another. So Jen has prepared a couple memos for you that were in your packet to give you some ... some current information, as well as fill you in on some of the past, and uh, Jen's going to be up here in just a moment to ... to quickly review that, and then what we're looking for, you had expressed some interest in getting this on a work session so we can talk back and forth about it, and make sure that we're on This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 16 the right track. So that's our objective for tonight. So with that intro, I'll turn it over to Jen and let her give you some background. Throgmorton/ I'm glad you didn't say it'll be in the bag when we finish tonight! (laughter) Jordan/ Good evening, Council. Um, just a quick, uh, history of where the bag conversation started. In about 2008 we started receiving requests from general... general public, um, to consider a ban bag for Iowa City, and I did some research at the time, and it was ... the recommendations at the time were to basically look at education and improving recycling services. Since then I'm actually really happy to report we've included in ... I won't say every cause it's not 100 %. They change a little bit based on the group. But in almost every tour, outreach opportunity, talk that we give, in Landfill and Waste Water staff talk ... talked over 3,000 people per year at tours, events, outreach, Farmers Market, everything like that, and it's increasing significantly with the East Side Recycling Center. So we've talked to a lot of people. We've handed out a lot of bags. Um, also there has been, uh, at a national level there's been a huge increase in the amount of recycling that's both available and that is occurring. So that's a really positive improvement. Um, in fact since 2006 numbers have actually increased, the number of plastic bags recycled have increased by 50 %. So it's really good improvement. Hayek/ Is that a national number? Jordan/ It is, yeah. Yep! And I couldn't find any more recent, but that was from 2006 to 2010 so ... I'm ... I think it's probably even more since then. Just looking locally, um, we've gone from having just a handful of grocery stores who provided recycling to almost every grocery store in town. City Carton has a container as of last week there's a new recycling container for plastic bags at the East Side Recycling Center, which has been very well received and we've already, if didn't dump it today it'll get dumped tomorrow, so that's within not even a week. We've had a really good response to that. So, um, just to give that quick update and to provide an opportunity for discussion. Staff's opinion hasn't changed on this. We've done a pretty good job with education, outreach. There are more recycling opportunities available, um, we've ... I've actually gotten the feedback from folks in the last probably six to eight months that they're getting inundated with tote bags and so maybe the focus of the education component should change to not only take your ... you know, not only use the, or take your bag, remember to take it into the grocery store with you (laughter) exactly! Yes! Mims/ I walk in the door, I don't have it! (several talking and laughing) Jordan/ And I see that as an opportunity for partnership with the Grannies group, and with the local grocery stores, and this is something that I've kind of touched on a little bit in the past, but we actually haven't gotten to that point of the education, so that might be an opportunity. I think that the local grocery stores would be very ... happy to hear that, as well, because it's only going to help them sell more bags and help more people use the bags. So, they're saving money for the plastic bags that they're not, or the paper bags, that they are not using. So the more we can actually encourage people to use the tote This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 17 bags, the better off they are as well. I also just want to point out that ... if a ban is considered, it should be regional so the Iowa City businesses aren't at a competitive disadvantage, cause I think there would be significant backlash from the local ... local, uh, grocery stores in particular but depending on where the legislation was set as far as the type of bags, you know, the puppy mitt popped into my head earlier when you made that comment — that's technically a single -use plastic bag. So there would be a lot of area that would need to be determined as far as what ... are we just talking about grocery stores? Are we just talking about one specific type of bag, or what do we all want to include in that, if legislation does move forward. Um, also want to point out that it will have financial ramifications. There will be a lot of staff time that goes into this, not only research but I'm sure legal as well, um, there'll be a lot of education to not only the stores, but to the public, and I don't even really want to think about the enforcement of this, cause it's not something that I'm familiar with but maybe ... okay,nope? I ... I don't know what that would all entail, but I'm sure it would be a significant amount of staff time. Um, also from what I understand it would be a new type of regulation for the City of Iowa City, so that would be something that we would have to be looking at very closely as well. Would need obviously new resources to enact, to educate, and to actually enforce it, which is probably the hardest part. I mean, bans are a good tool to get at the vast majority of something, but I look at the appliance ban that's been in play for Iowa landfills since 1988 and we're still only at something like 98 or 99% which is great but it's never going to be 100% so ... keep that in mind as well. Um ... and I guess I'll just ...I'd be happy to take any questions on it or any ... I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. I've been providing recommendations but I haven't really had a chance to interact with Council so... Hayek/ Right. Jordan/ What do you think about it? Mims/ Well, from my perspective, on the one hand I would love to see the ban. Okay? Um, I agree that if it's going to be done it needs to be on the regional level, at least countywide, not just Iowa City, and then I think you've brought up a huge issue, Jen, and that is how do we define the plastic bag that we are, um, banning, I mean, like you say, is it just these typical ones that you get in the grocery store, um, you know, what if you walk into any other kind of retail store, I mean, you know, Target, Walmart, wherever, you know, Dillard's, I mean, I don't care where you're going, what ... what are the rules and regulations on their bags and how we're ... how does all that stuff, you know, so how do you define the bag? I think it's a lot more complicated than maybe what I thought when we first heard, you know, the 100 Grannies present and ... but I think in the meantime to continue to work on education and recycling, and more and more locations for recycling, um, and getting people to use the re, the reusable bags more, including myself (laughter) Um... Champion/ I'm terrible at it! This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 18 Mims/ ...I know, I keep forgetting. To me that's where we need to be at this point. Until we can get a regional agreement and figure out how to define what we're banning... we're not there yet is my opinion. Dobyns/ Couple of months ago we talked about this, um, group from out east, I think Virginia that was going to burn some of our landfill waste. Is there, um, if that was to, uh, start occurring in the Landfill site, could they start taking care of these materials in that? Fosse/ Yes. In fact, uh, the plastic bags are one of the things that they want to harvest out of the process in that they ... they have a energy value for them, and they're able to convert those to a fuel source for their operations. So they ... the plastic bags that are ... that are actually thrown away, uh, can be dealt with through that process or ... or you know they're not that big a problem in the landfill. When they become a problem is when they become litter. They tend to behave differently than a paper cup from Hardee's or McDonald's. Dobyns/ So what'll we do for like in the future to make it easier on Connie, I mean, she could actually put these plastic bags in recycling bin and it would actually go to that, um... Markus/ Garbage. Dobyns/ ...garbage, or it would just go in the regular garbage. Fosse/ They'd just go in the regular garbage. Yeah. The downside to going into regular recycling bin is they tend to get airborne before they're recycled. Dobyns/ And so I think we got some information from the company, um, saying that they have this, uh, Ohio and they bring the materials out there but we don't necessarily in the future need to utilize that. We can recycle these materials just in our landfill operation, possibly. So... Fosse/ Yeah, if we move forward with the (both talking) Dobyns/ If we move toward that, so there's that option as well in the future and, you know, Connie, that would be ... that'd be great for you! Champion/ It would be fantastic! (laughs) Dickens/ Where are we at with (several talking) Fosse/ Dave Elias and I are going out to their pilot project next week and we're going to look at it, listen to it, smell it, and see just whether or not it looks like a good fit for our landfill site. Dobyns/ See if it's a noxious order. (laughter) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 19 Champion/ And I ... I think there's other repercussions too, I mean, I ... absolutely would like to get rid of plastic bags cause I don't like them blowing around and when I go camping they're in the rivers, the fish are choking on them. They're flying all over the place, but it's somewhat impractical because they're so cheap, and uh, San Francisco has a ban on plastic bags so what they're using is paper bags and then they use two recyclable plastic bags. So you're using instead of one bag, you're using three bags to carry your groceries home from the store. Cause nothing... cause everything breaks. So I mean it's ... it isn't utopia — just get rid of the bags. I think the idea that ... my daughters are so good at reusing... these canvas bags and I must have a hundred of `em, seriously! (laughter) Fosse/ Here ... here's the tip on that, cause I was struggling with that too, so I started keeping it between the seat of my car, the center counsel, so when I take my seatbelt off it's right there. I see the handles. Payne/ That works, except for you have to get it from the house back to the car after you take the stuff in! (laughter) Fosse/ That one I can remember! Hayek./ You're not as organized as Fosse though! (laughter) That guy, he's got like a place for everything (several talking and laughing) Champion/ But I think making us all aware of how much waste we have (several talking) Dickens/ If you have a hundred bags, take some of those to the grocery store to ... to share with someone else. Champion/ I could give them away! I really could Dobyns/ But seriously, Jen, is that part of the education... Champion/ Although I do recycle all my plastic bags! Dobyns/ ...tips from Rick Fosse on what to do (several talking) That actually was a good idea. I was really surprised! (several talking) Jordan/ Maybe that's something we can work on with the Grannies in coming up with some sort of .. of brief campaign that people can see as they walk in the grocery store or you know sticker for their car, I don't know, on the window or something (several talking) Throgmorton/ Jen, could I spin off of that please, cause I know there are three members of 100 Grannies out here, maybe four, I don't know if John counts, uh, and ... and uh, and I'm aware that they, uh, either have or want to be working with you to do what they can to reduce the use of plastic bags and so on. So I ... I would hope that we would strongly encourage you to do that, and ... and you too, Rick, to ... to work with 100 Grannies to try to tap some of the energy they're bringing to this. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 20 Jordan/ Yes! Throgmorton/ And find ways to really help us, you know, cut ... cut down even further on the amount of these bags being used and discarded. Jordan/ Yeah, that's great. That's a good point, Jim. We actually met late in September and have had two City events where we've co, uh, encouraged people to not only take the bags that we're handing out that day but then to use them as well, but I think that can really be more of a focus, and it's not something that I focused on because it seems like its common sense that you take a bag, you're going to use it, but that's not necessarily the case cause I'm also guilty of not using them 100% of the time and I always have them in my car so ... that can be a part of the educational component. Yeah. Hayek/ Yeah, I ... I'm in agreement with this ... with this approach. We ... we can't do something that places Iowa City at a ... at a competitive disadvantage on this issue and I think the solution, if there is to be one, is at a regional and perhaps a statewide, uh, level. Um, but in the meantime I think it's important to focus on the incredible things we are doing from my perspective, in the area of...of (coughing, unable to hear) use and recycling and ... and those sorts of things. And, I mean, when you look at the span of...of projects we have undertaken, uh, the increase in education we provide to the public, the investment in facilities, the East Side Recycling being the latest, um, I think you can say that Iowa City is very forward - thinking in terms of energy policy, um ... and we set a standard in the region and we will continue to look for, uh, ways to improve what we're already doing. And ... and so, um, we need to stay on that course. And I think we will. So ... okay! Fosse/ Thank you. Champion/ Thanks. Hayek/ Thank you. Okay, uh, Info Packet. Information Packet: Throgmorton/ Um, I ... Matt, I know we're not in a position to do a lot of repartee here but someone raised her hand out there. I don't know if there's any way to... (unable to hear person away from mic) Hayek/ Well ... you know what, and I'm sorry. We ... we have these work sessions where we don't get into it with the public. Uh, but I would invite you to come to the beginning of our work session, um, we have the community (several talking) I'm sorry! Formal Council meeting at 7:00. We have community comment, and I just have to be consistent, and I ... I'm sorry for that. Throgmorton/ Thanks, Matt. Hayek/ Okay. Let's move on to, uh, the Info Packet. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 21 Mims/ We've covered most of it. Hayek/ Yeah, we (several talking and laughing) Throgmorton/ I have a question (several talking and laughing) Dickens/ Michelle, you sure you don't have something... Payne/ Nope! (laughter) Mims/ No typos or anything. Throgmorton/ I ... I'll do my Michelle imitation and I have a question about IP #11, the minutes of the Economic Development Committee, which uh, I guess Matt and Susan and Michelle would be able to talk about. Uh, I ... I read the material about the Fieldhouse, the former Fieldhouse Bar, providing assistance to it. Um, and ... (mumbled) but um, I ... I wasn't able to get a clear sense of who might lease the space and how it might be used. Do you all have a sense of that? Markus/ There's a, uh, a beauty salon and school, I think, is proposed in that location. So ... a spa. Mims/ At the time of our meeting, and Wendy's minutes were, we didn't have any specific... they didn't have any specific tenants to indicate to us, so that's why there's nothing in the minutes to that effect. Markus Second story office, I think is the... Hayek/ And I ... I mean I think the ... the arrangement, should we pursue it, would not specify a particular, uh, tenant or ... or occupant, but it would specify the types of use. (several responding) Throgmorton/ Yeah, I was trying to get a sense of that so... Hayek/ Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that was (mumbled) yeah, that was... Mims/ ...at least office upstairs. So... Hayek/ Other questions? Okay, Council time? Council Time: Throgmorton/ Wendy Ford and I had a really good meeting with other people involved in the City of Literature, the Iowa City City of Literature, uh, and it was, the meeting had to do with planning for the book festival, which the City of Literature is taking over from the University. Uh, beginning this coming fall. There are a lot of pretty ambitious plans, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 22 not ... not initially but uh, for longer term development of that particular festival, and I think they're pretty exciting. So you're going t hear some more about that as time goes on. And I'll say one other thing, go Notre Dame! (laughter) Champion/ Number two or number one? Throgmorton/ Number one in the BCS Championship game. Hayek/ My wife's a double (mumbled) (laughter) Other, uh, other Council time? Got a lot of meetings. We've got a lot in store for the rest of this month and into January, February. Uh, pending work session topics. Pending Work Session Tonics: Karr/ Mr. Mayor, I have one thing. It was a handout, uh, hard copy in front of you this evening, uh, Council received an email request from Matt Ohloff and he's the young man who appeared two weeks, well, a week ago and then two weeks prior to that. They're GE labeling resolution, he requested the item be scheduled for December 18th work session, and I'm just bringing it to your attention at this time because by the time I would have distributed this the next time, it would have been the 18th. So I look for your direction on how you wish to respond to this request. Hayek/ As I recall at our last meeting, Jim, you brought this up. I don't think we resolved whether there were three people on Council who wanted to make it a work session item. Throgmorton/ I don't think we did either (several talking) Payne/ I thought we ... kind of talked about that it wasn't something that was even at our ... our level of government to... so that's why we said no. Karr/ You did discuss it and then the Mayor left it open by saying he'd look at it one more time. So I think the door was kind of left open a little bit. Hayek/ Guilty as charged. I haven't done so in the last week. Throgmorton/ Yeah, my recollection is ... is that, they're not asking us to ... require labeling here in Iowa City, but instead they're asking us to, uh, encourage the state legislators to require labeling, am I mis- remembering, but that's the way I... Champion/ I can't remember, Jim. Dobyns/ Cause you couldn't (several talking) Dilkes/ ...that's accurate, Jim. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 23 Throgmorton/ So it's like, you know, what ... what's on our agenda for with regard to lobbying, in a sense. Hayek/ Well, are there three people who want to, um, add this to a work session, uh, list? Throgmorton/ I think we should. Hayek/ And, Jim, I'm sorry. Until I read the materials and I still haven't done so over the last two weeks, I'm not ... I'm not willing to commit on this. I have some ambivalence because this gets into the area of where I'm ... I think there' a... some things are clearly related to City operations and clearly things we should weigh in on. Some things are clearly not. I don't know where this falls. Maybe somewhere in the middle. Throgmorton/ Yeah, think it has to do with public health. Hayek/ Yeah. I know, and ... and ... I need to think about it more. And I promised you I'd look at those things and I haven't yet so I still will. Champion/ You get a black star! (several talking and laughing) Throgmorton/ Yeah, I'd be embarrassed to tell the second graders from Hoover about (several talking and laughing) Hayek/ Glad I didn't (laughter) All right. Doesn't look like we're putting it on at least right now. Other... Karr/ So should I get back to the, understand it's not the 18th, but does it go on the pending list or it's not anywhere? Hayek/ It's not on the pending list right now. Karr/ It's nowhere? I'll get back to him. That's fine. Meeting Schedule: Hayek/ My understanding. (several responding) Okay. Uh, anything else on that? Okay, meeting schedule. That's on IP, uh... (several talking). A lot, yeah! (several talking) Payne/ Friday at noon (several talking) Throgmorton/ ...tell everybody about our (mumbled) meeting? Payne/ On Thursday. You can. Throgmorton/ Still don't know what it's all about. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012. December 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 24 Payne Well, I'm in a different part of it than you are so... Dobyns/ What's this? Payne /About our (several talking) yeah, the Regional Workforce Development Board. Jim and I have a meeting on Thursday. Throgmorton/ We've been to one meeting as far as I know, and we got this huge briefing that, you know, and got inundated with material and I ... one meeting! I don't really (several talking) Mims/ Yeah, I was there. It'll take you a while. (laughter) Payne/ That's what I'm gathering too. Just go to the meeting; you'll figure it out! Throgmorton/ Now we know who to turn ... who to turn to. Mims/ Not sure I'll be much help! Upcoming Events / Council Invitations: Hayek/ Okay, upcoming events, Council invitations? I don't really have anything right now. You, Jim, you just met with the Cub Scouts earlier this evening. I've got another request to meet with I think the Shimek Cub Scouts at some point and uh, they were going to come down tonight but... Dobyns/ How'd we do with the bell ringing, Mr. Mayor? Hayek/ Well we, uh, as I understand it I think we came in second place to Coralville, uh, I thought North Liberty was going to walk away with it, because Mayor Salm stuffed a $100 bill from his employer into the, uh, into the bucket and then made the mistake of telling one of the reports that he had done so. (laughter) Outside corporate cash, we know it was a ... it was a super pac basically! (laughter) Dobyns/ So youthful vigor is probably not as important as we think it is? (laughter) Hayek/ Yeah, so, uh, Coralville came up with more money at their location. So... Dobyns/ All for a good cause! Thank you for doing that (several talking) Hayek/ ... strategy next time and... (laughter) super pac so ... (laughter) Okay, so we've got, uh, the meeting's this Friday and I think that's about it other than the next Council meeting. Okay, well that's it. We've got a nice long break between now and the formal. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of December 4, 2012.