HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-12-04 TranscriptionDecember 4, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Dilkes, Jordan, Karr, Fruin, Dulek, Davidson, Fosse, Bentley,
Reinhart, Rocca, Goodman, Grier, Moran
Agenda Items•
Hayek/ Have anything?
Payne/ I have several.
Hayek/ Go for it!
ITEM 9. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED
"POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "ANIMAL
CONTROL," TO ESTABLISH A PERMIT PROCESS FOR URBAN
CHICKENS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
ITEM 10. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING AN URBAN CHICKEN
POLICY.
Payne/ Okay, my first one is on the urban chicken policy on, uh, item 10. So is this on the
agenda for tonight?
Hayek/ Yes.
Markus/ Yes.
Payne/ And ... there's a section that says their ... the permit granted/denied, and then there's six
things under there. And then the next section is neighbor consent. Shouldn't that
neighbor consent be underneath the permit granted or denied? I mean, why ... I guess
why is neighbor consent in a different section, because... isn't that saying it won't be
granted?
Dulek/ I just did it to emphasize it. I didn't want to bury it.
Payne/ Okay.
Dulek/ That's the only reason. It certainly can be but I just ... that's the only reason.
Payne/ I... okay. Thank you very much!
Champion/ I was just glad to see it in there!
Payne/ Um...
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Hayek/ By the way, we'll need a motion at, when we get to ... whatever the first item is ... to move
9 and 10 up for discussion. Of all three at the same time, and then we'll vote on `em
separately (away from mic)
Champion/ Nine and ten?
Hayek/ Well, yeah, it's... whatever, uh, I'm sorry ... yeah, 6e and then 9 and then 10.
Karr/ So we'll discuss all of the chicken items together.
Hayek/ When we get to 6e, why doesn't somebody move...
Champion/ Okay.
Hayek/ ...that we (several talking)
Champion/ I'll do it!
Dobyns/ Okay.
Champion/ 6e, okay. Got it!
Dobyns/ 9 and 10.
Champion/ A, b, c, d, e.
Throgmorton/ So, with regard to the policy, I intend to move that we amend the resolution to
have the section titled "Neighbor Consent" automatically expire after two years, unless
there has been a substantial and documented record of difficulty with chickens, and uh,
once it has expired the, uh, it would be replaced by a new section titled, I guess,
"Neighbor Consultation" which would stipulate the procedure specified (mumbled) draft
of the policy, or what we'd earlier talked about. So I ... I'm gonna move that. I kinda
doubt that there's a majority in favor of it, but I'm going to make that motion during...
Dobyns/ You know, it'd sort of be like a sunshine on the (several talking) veto portion of
(several talking) or sunshine. Or sun down (laughter)
Champion/ What if there's a new neighbor then?
Throgmorton/ Well, I ... I ... that ... that was an issue with regard to the policy anyhow, you know,
what if there's a new neighbor.
Champion/ Well the new neighbor would have the chickens there and they would still be able to
keep their permit ... until it was time to be renewed. That was made pretty clear, I
thought.
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Throgmorton/ I ... maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I'm not saying anything about eliminating
the permit. I'm saying that the, uh, the requirement that neighbors be permitted to, um, to
veto any ... any possible chicken coop be, um, sunsetted after two years, that ... that...
Champion/ For everybody? Or for just that one ... for just a particular permit?
Throgmorton/ For everybody. For ... for the policy.
Champion/ No, okay. All right.
Throgmorton/ Policy to ... to remove the neighbor consent.
Champion/ Okay, I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you were saying.
Dobyns/ And is the policy for three years, if I recall? You get the permit, is it for...
Hayek/ The permit's for three years.
Markus/ (mumbled) ... for three.
Dobyns/ (mumbled)
Dilkes/ The policy lasts until Coun... Council changes it. And, Jim, I would suggest that when
you make your motion for a sunset you don't... a sunset should be very clear, um, you
know, I'd say just three years. Then if...if Council believes that there's a substantial
problem with chickens then they can ... they can eliminate the sunset but having a sunset
that is not definite is going to be very difficult to administer.
Throgmorton/ But I ... um, thanks for the clarity but I ... I do intend to, for the motion to indicate
the neighbor, the required neighbor consent would go away after, what I said was two
years.
Dilkes/ Period?
Throgmorton/ Period.
Dilkes/ That's fine.
Dobyns/ It ... it's my intent to, you know, second Jim's motion, um, and my sense of it is it's a
petition back to, at least some of you (laughs) you know to consider, um, the veto as
something that, rather than just letting it go in perpetuity, but just giving it some time to
see how it works out, and then, you know, in other words if we all think it's good at the
end of two years, whoever's sitting at this table, that we'd have to be active in continuing
it.
Dilkes/ Right.
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Dobyns/ And it's just ... it's just sort of a different way of looking at it, but that's (mumbled)
Mims/ I'll support it as well.
Payne/ I will not.
Champion/ I will not (laughs)
Mims/ I know. I didn't get to you this week! (laughter)
ITEM 11. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 8, ENTITLED
"POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "ANIMAL
CONTROL" AND TITLE 10, ENTITLED "PUBLIC WAYS AND
PROPERTY," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED "CITY PLAZA," AND
CHAPTER 9, ENTITLED "PARKS AND RECREATION
REGULATIONS," TO ALLOW DOGS IN CITY PLAZA, TO PROHIBIT
DOGS IN SIDEWALK CAFES, AND TO ALLOW DOGS TO BE OFF
LEASH IN ALL DOG PARKS. (PASS AND ADOPT)
Champion/ Urn ... I just wanted to bring up the business about the dogs in the ped mall, cause I
had several people comment about it. Did we get any feedback from the Parks and Recs
Commission on those dogs that has park property?
Markus/ Go ahead.
Fruin/ Not the commission per se, but we worked with the Parks Department and their staff, and
they're... we're working on a plan now to, you know, install the ... the mutt mitt type of,
uh ... um, baggy dispensers in some key locations down there. So, not the Parks
Commission, Connie, but the Parks staff.
Champion/ Okay, okay. And that would take care of excrement but what about urine? Has that
been talked about at all? I've not read all those minutes or anything.
Fruin/ Yeah, no it's ... it came up quite a bit in the discussions with the Downtown District and
it's a concern that everybody has, but, um, frankly it's uh ... it's no different than
Washington Street or Dubuque Street right now. Like a sidewalk, uh, downtown where
the dogs are permitted and that they do frequent. Um, you have that issue now. One
thing that, uh, I think will help the matter is that we've recently partnered with the
Downtown District for increased pressure washing of the sidewalks and the ped mall, so
prior to this year we were only doing that once per year, in the springtime. The
Downtown District has now contributed to that. The City's put in some additional funds,
and that's going to occur anywhere from three to five or six times per year, depending on
what location you are downtown. I think the ped mall itself is scheduled to get four,
three or four pressure washings a year. So that'll help. That's certainly something we'll
have to monitor and track.
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Payne/ I still have a couple questions on the chicken policy.
Champion/ Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were done.
Payne/ That's okay! Um, on page 4 of the policy ... um, #6 at the very top. And maybe this is
just words, but within once weekly doesn't seem to make sense to me. Fecal matter may
be used as fertilizer if turned completely into the soil within once weekly.
Hayek/ It's a typo.
Payne/ Should it be like "at least once weekly," or ... within once weekly just doesn't...
Dilkes/ It probably should be "at least."
Payne/ Okay.
Hayek/ And there's probably a second typo there toward the end of that sentence too. Did you
see that?
Payne / And there is no ... (several talking)
Hayek/ Maybe it's not. If (both talking)
Payne/ That should be "order," or "odor" not order (laughter) You're right! That is a typo.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Payne/ That should be odor.
Dilkes/ Those are typos. We'll just change `em. You don't need to amend. (laughter and
several talking)
Payne/ I was hung up on the within once weekly (laughs) and then my last question is ... the fees.
I thought we were going to change the fees so the initial permit fee was $100, but that
that $100 lasted for all three years of the permit.
Throgmorton/ That's the way I understood it.
Payne/ But this says the fee to renew the permit is $75. So does that mean in the fourth year it
will be $75?
Dilkes/ Yes.
Markus/ Yes.
Payne/ Okay.
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Hayek/ Which I think is consistent with what we...
Payne/ So some place ... I guess I just don't remember, some place it does say that the permit is
valid for three years?
Hayek/ On Item 9. The permit process.
Dilkes/ The ordinance also says three years.
Payne/ Okay. Okay. That is 100% of my questions.
Dobyns/ Is that noxious or is that okay?
Payne/ Obnoxious! (laughs)
Throgmorton/ I'd like to bring up something.
Hayek/ Go ahead, Jim.
ITEM 6c CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY REZONING
APPROXIMATELY 1.02 ACRES OF LAND LOCATED ON 1sT AVENUE
NORTH OF ROCHESTER AVENUE FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE
FAMILY RESIDENTIAL(RS -5) TO LOW- DENSITY MULTI - FAMILY
RESIDENTIAL (RM -12). (REZ12- 00025) (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
[Discussion only at formal meeting]
Throgmorton/ Um, I ... I'd like to make a request with regard to Item 6c, which is a rezoning.
don't want to discuss it or anything (several talking)
Hayek/ No, that's a motion. No, that's, uh ... that's second consideration.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, on Rochester. I don't want to make, uh, have any discussion about it, I just
want to ask Jeff if he could do something during the public meeting. So, uh, my request
is that you be able to show an aerial view of it and help us see precisely where the 20 -foot
buffer would be between the development and Hickory Hill Park?
Davidson/ Okay. I will have to run upstairs and get that to put it on because I didn't (both
talking)
Throgmorton/ ...don't have to do it during this meeting. I just mean when ... when we're voting
is what I was thinking.
Davidson/ Right. Right, tonight. Yeah, I'll try and get that on. Is there any other Planning and
Zoning stuff you want to see, because I don't have anything on the machine tonight cause
it's all either setting hearings or repeat items. Anything else you want to see?
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Throgmorton/ With regard to that specific point, I'd also like you to be able to clarify where the
building would be relative to the building adjacent to it on the south. I'm sorry! Yeah,
on the south side of it.
Davidson/ South, okay.
Throgmorton/ Uh, and ... uh ... and the trees that are ... that persons referred to last time.
Davidson/ Okay, so where the new building is, visa vie the existing building to the south, the
trees to the south.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, the trees that are between the ... the existing building and the proposed (both
talking)
Davidson/ Yeah, and then show on an aerial where the buffer is located.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Davidson/ The buffer to the park I assume you're talking about. Between the park and the
parking lot.
Throgmorton/ Yes.
Davidson/ Okay. We can do that, Jim. Thanks.
Hayek/ When we get to that point and we ... and we start the discussion, if one of you would
indicate for the audience that this request was made, so that the audience knows that we
had this discussion.
Davidson/ I'll get up at the beginning of the item.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Hayek/ And add... and to add on to this, I don't... Eleanor, I don't know if you will allow me
right now to talk about it or if you prefer that I wait ... I have a comment/concern about
the request for expedited action ... on this item. Would you prefer that I...
Dilkes/ No, I think if we're going to have a policy of not talking about these items until the
formal we should stick to that.
Hayek/ Let's do that then. Okay! Other agenda items? Okay. Let's move on to the discussion
regarding the request to endorse the Iowa Recycling Association legislative position on
Iowa's container law, found at IP3.
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Iowa Recycling Association Legislative Position on Iowa Container Law (IP3):
Throgmorton/ So I'll bite, just to get the conversation going. I think we ought to support it.
Champion/ I don't have any problems supporting it.
Dobyns/ It looks like it's just a ... updating with reality.
Champion/ Right.
Payne/ Yes. I agree.
Hayek/ Are there any pros or cons that staff wants us to be aware of as we look at this?
Markus/ Well I would say that we don't wish to, um, compare this to our priorities, so ... we will
endorse the organization that's going to support this, but we will not, uh, be out actively
lobbying this issue.
Throgmorton/ Understood!
Hayek/ And can we make a direct tie to, uh, City infrastructure, City assets, you know...
Markus/ In terms of...
Hayek/ Well as a ... in terms of (both talking)
Markus/ ...the impact on the city?
Hayek/ The propriety of us weighing in on ... on an issue (both talking)
Markus/ ...less litter, there's less you know environmental (both talking) impact on our river and
streams and...
Payne/ And would it be less stuff (both talking) in the landfill?
Markus/ ...less impact on your landfill, so...
Hayek/ I think the ties are multiple, but I think it's important to, uh, highlight those. Okay, any
concerns about endorsing?
Mims/ No, not at all.
Hayek/ Okay. Okay! Uh, next item is discussion on Jim Throgmorton's suggested activities
related to the decision not to proceed with the Taft levee, that's IP4. (mumbled) are you,
A (mumbled)
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Council Member Thromorton's ... decision not to proceed with Taft Speedway levee (IP4):
Throgmorton/ I don't know but I ... I guess I can say a couple or three words, um ... the ... the three
bulleted items at the end of the memo are, as with the rest of the memo, things I said
during the meeting last week. Uh, and at the time there was a request that I ... I think from
Marian, maybe from Eleanor, that I make that available. Uh, so I did, and now it's in our
...in our file and all that. Uh, it does seem to me that these are things that we should
discuss, but I don't know if the rest of you really want to proceed, so we should just find
out. If you want I can go over each of `em but uh, I assume you've all had a chance to
read them.
Dobyns/ I just sort of have a ... operational question, I mean, I'm looking at the three bullets at
the end of Jim's memo, um, if we like them we would then, you know, if there's enough
of us we would encourage City staff to take a closer look, because I noticed there's no
City staff, uh, information. And that's (several talking) that's a Council decision for this
discussion. Okay. Whether we want to go (several talking) okay, all right.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, and I make no claim to know what the financial or legal viability of these
suggestions is. So I ... I was simply hoping that we could ... we could instruct the City
Manager and the City Attorney to look into the financial and legal viability.
Dilkes/ Well I can certainly give you my legal, you know, kind of ..initial reaction to 'em ... now
and I can also look at them in more detail if Council wants to do that.
Hayek/ Can you ... well how about the first bullet point — do you have a quick answer on ... on
that? Flood insurance requirement.
Dilkes/ Let me just ... I think that Jim had shared these with staff earlier, um, and Tom had asked
me for my, um, thoughts from a legal perspective. Um ... and at that time I said, and I still
continue to believe, that its ... we're talking now about compensating ... we're moving
away from mitigation of...of, uh, flood, the risk of flooding, and we're not talking really
about mitigating the risk of flooding anymore. Um, which is what the focus of all our
other efforts have been, and that ... that's okay if Council wants to go that way. Um, but I
think it is ... I think you have to think about the precedent that you'd be setting when
you're talking about compensating Idyllwild homeowners for the loss of value, uh, based
on Council's earlier approval of the development. Uh, the City has no liability for that
decision. Um, I think that's quite clear if you look at the immunities under the State code
as to the City's liability and I think we would have a ... a very solid defense to any such
claim. Um, and then I was asked whether, um, or I think Jim asked whether we could
condition a payment, um ... by the City on the ... on the property owner obtaining flood
insurance. We have done that in the past with jump -start funds. We ... we had, we
required that they demonstrate anybody getting that money demonstrate that they had
insurance. Um, I ... I think the concern with that though here ... is that, um, the need for
flood insurance, um, is quite apparent and I think it's fairly clear at this point that the
owners at Idyllwild, as well as the homeowner's association have flood insurance. So I
don't think you ... you get... accomplish much by that.
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Throgmorton/ (mumbled) I'm sorry, go ahead.
Mims/ I guess as I look at the three of them, um, to me singling out one particular area to require
flood insurance, um, doesn't make sense. I think given our episodes in 93 and 2008, I
think people in the area are ... for those two floods, pretty well aware of...of their risk in
terms of, uh, being flooded, and I think that that is on the homeowners, you know, and
their mortgage companies and stuff as to whether or not, you know, they're going to
require the insurance and ... and for the homeowners to do that. I don't think that's an
area that the City, urn ... unless there's something statewide that's required, I don't see
that as something we should be getting into, and particularly, uh, singling out one
particular development. Um, on the second bullet, I am not at all comfortable with
setting some sort of precedent of compensation, um, in terms (mumbled) I mean I, is
very, very unfortunate situation. The fact that the ownership structure. That there was no
buyout. You know, that's all very unfortunate, but to try to come up with something, uh,
in terms of compensation, I'm very, very concerned about the precedent, and I don't see
how it can be done fairly. So I'm not at all interested in either the first two bullets. The
third one in terms of instructing staff to look at alternatives for that CDBG money that
will not now be going to that levee, I would definitely support.
Champion/ I agree with Susan.
Throgmorton/ Can I ... can I make a clarification with regard to the second point. Um ... first with
regard to the legal liability point that Eleanor rightly raises, uh, just for the record, I'm
making no suggestion whatsoever that the City should assume or has any legal liability
with regard to this. I think we share an ethical responsibility, along with various other
people who have made serious mistakes in the Idyllwild area and ... in all sorts of ways
with regard to flooding and ... and so on. Uh, so ... it seems to me we should ... we have
...we should share in the responsibility of, uh, helping people recover from that particular
event. Now with regard to, uh ... uh ... providing compensation or assistance, I tried to
distinguish between two types of, uh, condo owners in the area. I hope it's clear in the
memo but maybe it's not. So I tried to distinguish between people who bought condos
before the flood, suffered significant damage, uh... con... continued to own... wanted a
buyout but couldn't get one, and continued to own the condos (mumbled) after 2008.
That's one group. The other group basically are people who bought af...after the flood. I
mean that's the way I was trying to think of it. So the first set of people, it seems to me,
got trapped in a ... in a nasty situation, and ... and weren't able to take advantage of the
buyout offers, weren't able to do (mumbled) an official offer, but weren't able to take
advantage of buyout opportunities, and so on, and so I was trying to devise a way in
which we could assist those people who got trapped in that situation. That's what I had
in mind.
Markus/ There's another group though isn't there? There's the group of people, um, that
suffered damage and actually lost their homes, who probably have at least the same or
even greater equitable, uh, demand on the City, if in fact we're going to proceed to give
people $40,000 per unit, that still happen to be there. Some suffered, um, serious
consequences...
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Mims / And sold!
Markus/ ...and as a result, uh, either sold or lost, uh, their particular property, so...
Throgmorton/ Fair enough.
Markus/ ...we're going to get into some serious equity questions, I would guess, as this thing
progresses if we went down that path.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I think your point's a good one, and just, with regard to the $40,000 figure,
you know, I don't have anything strong to base that on. It was a... a back -of -the- envelope
calculation kind of number I was using, just to get some sense of what ... what the cost
might be.
Markus / And ... and I understand this is for discussion purposes, but I ... I would also suggest that
whether we declare a legal, uh, responsibility or the lack of a legal responsibility, and just
make it an ethical claim, it probably still has precedential impact, uh, for other areas of
similar or future similar situations.
Champion/ Well there were a lot of place flooded and they didn't all qualify for buyouts, and I
think you're just getting into very dangerous waters here. And I'm not willing to do it.
Literally dangerous water! (laughter)
Hayek/ Yeah, yeah, I ... I guess I agree on ... in terms of.. of some sort of financial compensation
to ... to this particular population, um ... I think that's a risky, uh, endeavor for the City to
undertake. Um ... there were plenty of people who were affected, as Tom said, in
different ways during the floods of 08, and in the floods of 93, um, I think this opens up,
uh, the discussion, uh, if for these folks why not for ... for these other folks, um, and you
know, at the end of the day what the City's, uh, policy has been all along is to assist with
the response. It's not even a policy. It's just what our past practice has been to assist
with the response to flooding, uh, to assist with the recovery in the ... in the short-term
aftermath following a flood, and then to work on mitigation, and mitigation involves
permanent protection. Um ... um, and ... and all of those things protect against flooding,
and ... and a cash outlay, uh, that ... that does nothing to, uh, protect against a future flood
or mitigate a future flood, um, would be a departure I think from... from what we have
done and open up the door to ... to, um, various interpretations or claims for ... for relief,
um, and I think it would be...it would open up the door for ... for that sort of stuff in the
event of yet another event. Um, so that's how I feel about the second bullet point. The
...the third one, um, I mean, I ... it's my understanding that staff is already exploring
alternatives...
Markus/ Yes we are.
Hayek/ ...you know, we've got potentially this money to be allocated elsewhere, which formed
part of the decision of... of at least certain members of the Council, and I think staff is
... is pursuing that.
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Markus/ Yeah, and ... in fact we took that direction from I think the last Council meeting to
pursue that, and staff has been in contact with the appropriate agencies, to see if those
funds could be reallocated. In some instances it was no, and in some instances it's maybe
not quoting them but maybe it's a `maybe,' and so we continue to pursue those and uh,
that may allow us to redistribute dollars into other projects as a result of...of using funds
in this fashion.
Hayek/ I would ... I would be reluctant to ... there are, as I understand it, three criteria that apply.
Markus/ Yes.
Hayek/ Low, mod - income is one of them, and I wouldn't want to tie our hands as we look for
ways to reallocate the $8 million.
Throgmorton/ I thought the first two were both low ... low to mod-in ... moderate income.
Markus/ Slum and blight.
Throgmorton/ ...urgent need.
Markus / And urgent need.
Hayek/ Well, there ... there must be enough of a distinction for them to have three separate
criteria, and I ... I just ... I would want to have the flexibility as staff explores ways to
expend the $8 million if we can in fact do so. Um ... and ... and for them to come back to
us with options, uh, whatever they may be, before we...
Dobyns/ Cause the availability of the funds is a ... is mysterious anyway, putting a further
constraint on it might be a problem. (several responding)
Markus/ I ... I think our limitations, um, or our options used, the dollars are going to be limited,
and so I don't think your ... you're going to see a whole lot of alternative availability of
how those funds could be used, if they determine that they can be used on another project
to begin with.
Dickens/ cause there were still questions on whether we would get this initial.
Hayek/ But for example, if one of those possibilities would only really be triggered under the
slum and blight criterion, I wouldn't want us to have foreclosed that as a possibility...
Throgmorton/ Well I'd agree with that (several responding)
Hayek/ ...in advance, so I'd prefer to just keep it open- ended.
Mims/ Just ... explore alternative uses of the money. Period.
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Hayek/ On the first bullet point, the flood insurance, is ... putting aside limiting it to a certain
neighborhood, is ... is that the kind of requirement that cities impose generally within
flood plains or...
Dilkes/ No.
Champion/ No. Usually the banks (both talking)
Dilkes/ ...the requirement for flood insurance is a federal (several talking)
Mims/ I'm sorry, wait. What did you finish saying?
Dilkes/ That that's regulated at the federal level.
Markus/ Yes.
Mims/ Okay. Thanks.
Throgmorton/ But not with regard to particular places. I mean, or help me understand. How is it
regulated at the federal level with regard to...
Dilkes/ In certain situations as we explained in that recent memo, the federal law requires that
you have flood insurance.
Hayek/ I'd also say this, um, to the extent that it's regulated at the federal level, I think it's risky
for us to impose federal regulations locally, and even rec ... in the last two or three weeks
I saw some, uh, media coverage of the federal flood insurance program itself. Its
solvency has ... has been called into question. I think it's running in the red. And ... and
the recent natural disasters will probably, uh, stress that fund even more, and there are
some who call for the elimination of that program or a mod... a huge modification of it.
So I mean, do we want to get into that when there's...
Payne/ And certainly Idyllwild isn't the only place in the city that has buildings in the 100 -year
flood plain or the 500 -year flood plain, so whatever it is, whatever we call that area, why
would we single out one area and require it?
Markus/ I think that you may, Jim, get to the same point that you're trying to get to, but I think
you have to think about it differently. A number of these projects have multiple sources
of funding, and to the extent that we can retain CDBG, federal dollars, in another project
may reduce the reliance on another of the sources of funding which then could be (both
talking) refunneled someplace else. So the key (several talking) from my perspective is
to be able to save those dollars and use them on another, um, eligible project, as
determined by the fed and state.
Throgmorton/ Totally agree, yeah. I ... I don't quite understand the discussion with regard to
flood insurance though. Uh, if...if the national program is at risk, then everyone who
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lives within some kind of flood plain is ultimately at risk. I mean, if that program goes
away, they are at risk. So, and ... because private insurers have made it very clear they are
not going to provide private insurance. Tell me if I'm wrong about this.
Champion/ They don't.
Throgmorton/ That's what I understand.
Markus/ Well, yeah, and I think what's happening right now as we approach the fiscal cliff,
everything is being tossed out as potential ways to reduce the deficit and deal with those
issues. So, I think there's a lot of proffering of different suggestions and testing different
things, uh, as that debate goes forward, but uh, with the number of natural disasters that
have occurred within the last decade, you know, the costs just keep mounting and so I
think everybody looks at, you know, what discretionary funds, um, you have to cut and
so they start to look at just about every available program, and you know, you've heard
the same conversation about mortgage deductibility too and ... and so it gets to the point
of, well, what does ... what does it take to get this thing straightened out at the federal
level, and then they start looking at programs and the dollars that are allocated to those
programs to determine, you know, what in fact we can cut to ... to make that happen and
get some sort of consensus between the two parties to make it work. So you're going to
hear a lot of different alternative approaches I suspect until there's some sort of, uh,
resolution if there is one.
Payne / And so let's just say we did put it in our city code. And then there is no such thing as
flood insurance anymore because there is no federal program. Then what, we take it out
of our code? I mean, it's not really our job to tell them to have flood insurance. At the
local level.
Throgmorton/ What ... what I'm trying to avoid and I won't make a huge deal out of this, what
I'm trying to avoid is the situation that occurred right after 2008 when people said, I
didn't know I needed to have flood insurance; the banks didn't require me to have flood
insurance on my mortgage; uh, the realtors didn't ... they told me I didn't, there wasn't
any flood insurance available or I didn't need it — all those kinds of things. People've
said it over and over again, you know, in the time we've been looking at this particular
topic. We could cut to the quick and say you gotta have flood insurance.
Payne/ You going to tell everybody in the city that?
Dilkes/ Can I ... can I interrupt for one minute? When I answered the question... your proposal
was to condition the receipt of monies on ... on having flood insurance. I ... I think that is
doable, like we did with jump -start, but that's a completely different thing than a
requirement in our code that has flood insurance, that requires flood insurance and I am
not all ... this may be completely academic, because I am not at all sure that that's
something that we could do. It's ... it's quite likely that there's a federal preemption issue
there.
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Throgmorton/ If... if we proceed, I certainly want you to look into that more carefully, but I
gather we're not going to...
Dickens/ But do you have to word it more as a recommendation, that anybody lives in that area
should get flood insurance, not mandate it. Because it's still an option for them whether
they're financial institution makes `em or their insurance company makes `em do it. And
after this not being able to put a levee around there that most of those people will go get it
on their own as a recommendation. If they don't, it's like the people that didn't take the
buyout. If they get flooded again, if...they have the insurance they're covered, but ... you
know, we can't buy em out after this last flood. So ... I guess it would be, put it more as a
recommendation — any area that's in the 100...a I00 -year flood plain we strongly
recommend that you get it. I don't know that you can force `em to. But most financial
institutions won't give you a loan anymore unless you do have that insurance. But at that
time, it wasn't a consideration for most of those people when they bought it, in that area,
back in 98.
Hayek/ Well okay, why don't we reach a conclusion on these three bullet points.
Payne/ I'm ... I agree with #3, or the three, third, the last bullet.
Mims/ But not limited to low to moderate (both talking) other options are available for the
CDBG money (several talking)
Champion/ Right!
Markus/ Got it!
Hayek/ But as to the other bullet points, there does not appear to be interest in ... in moving
further. Okay. Well, Jim, I appreciate you bringing these (mumbled) cause I think it
forced an interesting, uh, and important discussion. Okay, let's move on to, uh, plastic
bag ban request.
Plastic Bag Ban:
Fosse/ Good evening!
Throgmorton/ Hi, Rick!
Fosse/ Talk about those pesky plastic bags, uh, for a while! Uh, you've heard a community
comment a couple times in... in recent weeks about plastic bags and... and requesting
Iowa City to consider a ban on those, and ... and hardly a year goes by where we don't,
uh, get that request in one form or another. So Jen has prepared a couple memos for you
that were in your packet to give you some ... some current information, as well as fill you
in on some of the past, and uh, Jen's going to be up here in just a moment to ... to quickly
review that, and then what we're looking for, you had expressed some interest in getting
this on a work session so we can talk back and forth about it, and make sure that we're on
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the right track. So that's our objective for tonight. So with that intro, I'll turn it over to
Jen and let her give you some background.
Throgmorton/ I'm glad you didn't say it'll be in the bag when we finish tonight! (laughter)
Jordan/ Good evening, Council. Um, just a quick, uh, history of where the bag conversation
started. In about 2008 we started receiving requests from general... general public, um, to
consider a ban bag for Iowa City, and I did some research at the time, and it was ... the
recommendations at the time were to basically look at education and improving recycling
services. Since then I'm actually really happy to report we've included in ... I won't say
every cause it's not 100 %. They change a little bit based on the group. But in almost
every tour, outreach opportunity, talk that we give, in Landfill and Waste Water staff
talk ... talked over 3,000 people per year at tours, events, outreach, Farmers Market,
everything like that, and it's increasing significantly with the East Side Recycling Center.
So we've talked to a lot of people. We've handed out a lot of bags. Um, also there has
been, uh, at a national level there's been a huge increase in the amount of recycling that's
both available and that is occurring. So that's a really positive improvement. Um, in fact
since 2006 numbers have actually increased, the number of plastic bags recycled have
increased by 50 %. So it's really good improvement.
Hayek/ Is that a national number?
Jordan/ It is, yeah. Yep! And I couldn't find any more recent, but that was from 2006 to 2010
so ... I'm ... I think it's probably even more since then. Just looking locally, um, we've
gone from having just a handful of grocery stores who provided recycling to almost every
grocery store in town. City Carton has a container as of last week there's a new recycling
container for plastic bags at the East Side Recycling Center, which has been very well
received and we've already, if didn't dump it today it'll get dumped tomorrow, so that's
within not even a week. We've had a really good response to that. So, um, just to give
that quick update and to provide an opportunity for discussion. Staff's opinion hasn't
changed on this. We've done a pretty good job with education, outreach. There are more
recycling opportunities available, um, we've ... I've actually gotten the feedback from
folks in the last probably six to eight months that they're getting inundated with tote bags
and so maybe the focus of the education component should change to not only take
your ... you know, not only use the, or take your bag, remember to take it into the grocery
store with you (laughter) exactly! Yes!
Mims/ I walk in the door, I don't have it! (several talking and laughing)
Jordan/ And I see that as an opportunity for partnership with the Grannies group, and with the
local grocery stores, and this is something that I've kind of touched on a little bit in the
past, but we actually haven't gotten to that point of the education, so that might be an
opportunity. I think that the local grocery stores would be very ... happy to hear that, as
well, because it's only going to help them sell more bags and help more people use the
bags. So, they're saving money for the plastic bags that they're not, or the paper bags,
that they are not using. So the more we can actually encourage people to use the tote
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bags, the better off they are as well. I also just want to point out that ... if a ban is
considered, it should be regional so the Iowa City businesses aren't at a competitive
disadvantage, cause I think there would be significant backlash from the local ... local, uh,
grocery stores in particular but depending on where the legislation was set as far as the
type of bags, you know, the puppy mitt popped into my head earlier when you made that
comment — that's technically a single -use plastic bag. So there would be a lot of area that
would need to be determined as far as what ... are we just talking about grocery stores?
Are we just talking about one specific type of bag, or what do we all want to include in
that, if legislation does move forward. Um, also want to point out that it will have
financial ramifications. There will be a lot of staff time that goes into this, not only
research but I'm sure legal as well, um, there'll be a lot of education to not only the
stores, but to the public, and I don't even really want to think about the enforcement of
this, cause it's not something that I'm familiar with but maybe ... okay,nope? I ... I don't
know what that would all entail, but I'm sure it would be a significant amount of staff
time. Um, also from what I understand it would be a new type of regulation for the City
of Iowa City, so that would be something that we would have to be looking at very
closely as well. Would need obviously new resources to enact, to educate, and to actually
enforce it, which is probably the hardest part. I mean, bans are a good tool to get at the
vast majority of something, but I look at the appliance ban that's been in play for Iowa
landfills since 1988 and we're still only at something like 98 or 99% which is great but
it's never going to be 100% so ... keep that in mind as well. Um ... and I guess I'll just
...I'd be happy to take any questions on it or any ... I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
I've been providing recommendations but I haven't really had a chance to interact with
Council so...
Hayek/ Right.
Jordan/ What do you think about it?
Mims/ Well, from my perspective, on the one hand I would love to see the ban. Okay? Um, I
agree that if it's going to be done it needs to be on the regional level, at least countywide,
not just Iowa City, and then I think you've brought up a huge issue, Jen, and that is how
do we define the plastic bag that we are, um, banning, I mean, like you say, is it just these
typical ones that you get in the grocery store, um, you know, what if you walk into any
other kind of retail store, I mean, you know, Target, Walmart, wherever, you know,
Dillard's, I mean, I don't care where you're going, what ... what are the rules and
regulations on their bags and how we're ... how does all that stuff, you know, so how do
you define the bag? I think it's a lot more complicated than maybe what I thought when
we first heard, you know, the 100 Grannies present and ... but I think in the meantime to
continue to work on education and recycling, and more and more locations for recycling,
um, and getting people to use the re, the reusable bags more, including myself (laughter)
Um...
Champion/ I'm terrible at it!
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Mims/ ...I know, I keep forgetting. To me that's where we need to be at this point. Until we can
get a regional agreement and figure out how to define what we're banning... we're not
there yet is my opinion.
Dobyns/ Couple of months ago we talked about this, um, group from out east, I think Virginia
that was going to burn some of our landfill waste. Is there, um, if that was to, uh, start
occurring in the Landfill site, could they start taking care of these materials in that?
Fosse/ Yes. In fact, uh, the plastic bags are one of the things that they want to harvest out of the
process in that they ... they have a energy value for them, and they're able to convert those
to a fuel source for their operations. So they ... the plastic bags that are ... that are actually
thrown away, uh, can be dealt with through that process or ... or you know they're not that
big a problem in the landfill. When they become a problem is when they become litter.
They tend to behave differently than a paper cup from Hardee's or McDonald's.
Dobyns/ So what'll we do for like in the future to make it easier on Connie, I mean, she could
actually put these plastic bags in recycling bin and it would actually go to that, um...
Markus/ Garbage.
Dobyns/ ...garbage, or it would just go in the regular garbage.
Fosse/ They'd just go in the regular garbage. Yeah. The downside to going into regular
recycling bin is they tend to get airborne before they're recycled.
Dobyns/ And so I think we got some information from the company, um, saying that they have
this, uh, Ohio and they bring the materials out there but we don't necessarily in the future
need to utilize that. We can recycle these materials just in our landfill operation,
possibly. So...
Fosse/ Yeah, if we move forward with the (both talking)
Dobyns/ If we move toward that, so there's that option as well in the future and, you know,
Connie, that would be ... that'd be great for you!
Champion/ It would be fantastic! (laughs)
Dickens/ Where are we at with (several talking)
Fosse/ Dave Elias and I are going out to their pilot project next week and we're going to look at
it, listen to it, smell it, and see just whether or not it looks like a good fit for our landfill
site.
Dobyns/ See if it's a noxious order. (laughter)
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Champion/ And I ... I think there's other repercussions too, I mean, I ... absolutely would like to
get rid of plastic bags cause I don't like them blowing around and when I go camping
they're in the rivers, the fish are choking on them. They're flying all over the place, but
it's somewhat impractical because they're so cheap, and uh, San Francisco has a ban on
plastic bags so what they're using is paper bags and then they use two recyclable plastic
bags. So you're using instead of one bag, you're using three bags to carry your groceries
home from the store. Cause nothing... cause everything breaks. So I mean it's ... it isn't
utopia — just get rid of the bags. I think the idea that ... my daughters are so good at
reusing... these canvas bags and I must have a hundred of `em, seriously! (laughter)
Fosse/ Here ... here's the tip on that, cause I was struggling with that too, so I started keeping it
between the seat of my car, the center counsel, so when I take my seatbelt off it's right
there. I see the handles.
Payne/ That works, except for you have to get it from the house back to the car after you take the
stuff in! (laughter)
Fosse/ That one I can remember!
Hayek./ You're not as organized as Fosse though! (laughter) That guy, he's got like a place for
everything (several talking and laughing)
Champion/ But I think making us all aware of how much waste we have (several talking)
Dickens/ If you have a hundred bags, take some of those to the grocery store to ... to share with
someone else.
Champion/ I could give them away! I really could
Dobyns/ But seriously, Jen, is that part of the education...
Champion/ Although I do recycle all my plastic bags!
Dobyns/ ...tips from Rick Fosse on what to do (several talking) That actually was a good idea. I
was really surprised! (several talking)
Jordan/ Maybe that's something we can work on with the Grannies in coming up with some sort
of .. of brief campaign that people can see as they walk in the grocery store or you know
sticker for their car, I don't know, on the window or something (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Jen, could I spin off of that please, cause I know there are three members of 100
Grannies out here, maybe four, I don't know if John counts, uh, and ... and uh, and I'm
aware that they, uh, either have or want to be working with you to do what they can to
reduce the use of plastic bags and so on. So I ... I would hope that we would strongly
encourage you to do that, and ... and you too, Rick, to ... to work with 100 Grannies to try
to tap some of the energy they're bringing to this.
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Jordan/ Yes!
Throgmorton/ And find ways to really help us, you know, cut ... cut down even further on the
amount of these bags being used and discarded.
Jordan/ Yeah, that's great. That's a good point, Jim. We actually met late in September and
have had two City events where we've co, uh, encouraged people to not only take the
bags that we're handing out that day but then to use them as well, but I think that can
really be more of a focus, and it's not something that I focused on because it seems like
its common sense that you take a bag, you're going to use it, but that's not necessarily the
case cause I'm also guilty of not using them 100% of the time and I always have them in
my car so ... that can be a part of the educational component. Yeah.
Hayek/ Yeah, I ... I'm in agreement with this ... with this approach. We ... we can't do something
that places Iowa City at a ... at a competitive disadvantage on this issue and I think the
solution, if there is to be one, is at a regional and perhaps a statewide, uh, level. Um, but
in the meantime I think it's important to focus on the incredible things we are doing from
my perspective, in the area of...of (coughing, unable to hear) use and recycling and ... and
those sorts of things. And, I mean, when you look at the span of...of projects we have
undertaken, uh, the increase in education we provide to the public, the investment in
facilities, the East Side Recycling being the latest, um, I think you can say that Iowa City
is very forward - thinking in terms of energy policy, um ... and we set a standard in the
region and we will continue to look for, uh, ways to improve what we're already doing.
And ... and so, um, we need to stay on that course. And I think we will. So ... okay!
Fosse/ Thank you.
Champion/ Thanks.
Hayek/ Thank you. Okay, uh, Info Packet.
Information Packet:
Throgmorton/ Um, I ... Matt, I know we're not in a position to do a lot of repartee here but
someone raised her hand out there. I don't know if there's any way to... (unable to hear
person away from mic)
Hayek/ Well ... you know what, and I'm sorry. We ... we have these work sessions where we
don't get into it with the public. Uh, but I would invite you to come to the beginning of
our work session, um, we have the community (several talking) I'm sorry! Formal
Council meeting at 7:00. We have community comment, and I just have to be consistent,
and I ... I'm sorry for that.
Throgmorton/ Thanks, Matt.
Hayek/ Okay. Let's move on to, uh, the Info Packet.
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Mims/ We've covered most of it.
Hayek/ Yeah, we (several talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/ I have a question (several talking and laughing)
Dickens/ Michelle, you sure you don't have something...
Payne/ Nope! (laughter)
Mims/ No typos or anything.
Throgmorton/ I ... I'll do my Michelle imitation and I have a question about IP #11, the minutes
of the Economic Development Committee, which uh, I guess Matt and Susan and
Michelle would be able to talk about. Uh, I ... I read the material about the Fieldhouse,
the former Fieldhouse Bar, providing assistance to it. Um, and ... (mumbled) but um, I ... I
wasn't able to get a clear sense of who might lease the space and how it might be used.
Do you all have a sense of that?
Markus/ There's a, uh, a beauty salon and school, I think, is proposed in that location. So ... a
spa.
Mims/ At the time of our meeting, and Wendy's minutes were, we didn't have any specific...
they didn't have any specific tenants to indicate to us, so that's why there's nothing in the
minutes to that effect.
Markus Second story office, I think is the...
Hayek/ And I ... I mean I think the ... the arrangement, should we pursue it, would not specify a
particular, uh, tenant or ... or occupant, but it would specify the types of use. (several
responding)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I was trying to get a sense of that so...
Hayek/ Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that was (mumbled) yeah, that was...
Mims/ ...at least office upstairs. So...
Hayek/ Other questions? Okay, Council time?
Council Time:
Throgmorton/ Wendy Ford and I had a really good meeting with other people involved in the
City of Literature, the Iowa City City of Literature, uh, and it was, the meeting had to do
with planning for the book festival, which the City of Literature is taking over from the
University. Uh, beginning this coming fall. There are a lot of pretty ambitious plans,
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not ... not initially but uh, for longer term development of that particular festival, and I
think they're pretty exciting. So you're going t hear some more about that as time goes
on. And I'll say one other thing, go Notre Dame! (laughter)
Champion/ Number two or number one?
Throgmorton/ Number one in the BCS Championship game.
Hayek/ My wife's a double (mumbled) (laughter) Other, uh, other Council time? Got a lot of
meetings. We've got a lot in store for the rest of this month and into January, February.
Uh, pending work session topics.
Pending Work Session Tonics:
Karr/ Mr. Mayor, I have one thing. It was a handout, uh, hard copy in front of you this evening,
uh, Council received an email request from Matt Ohloff and he's the young man who
appeared two weeks, well, a week ago and then two weeks prior to that. They're GE
labeling resolution, he requested the item be scheduled for December 18th work session,
and I'm just bringing it to your attention at this time because by the time I would have
distributed this the next time, it would have been the 18th. So I look for your direction on
how you wish to respond to this request.
Hayek/ As I recall at our last meeting, Jim, you brought this up. I don't think we resolved
whether there were three people on Council who wanted to make it a work session item.
Throgmorton/ I don't think we did either (several talking)
Payne/ I thought we ... kind of talked about that it wasn't something that was even at our ... our
level of government to... so that's why we said no.
Karr/ You did discuss it and then the Mayor left it open by saying he'd look at it one more time.
So I think the door was kind of left open a little bit.
Hayek/ Guilty as charged. I haven't done so in the last week.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, my recollection is ... is that, they're not asking us to ... require labeling here
in Iowa City, but instead they're asking us to, uh, encourage the state legislators to
require labeling, am I mis- remembering, but that's the way I...
Champion/ I can't remember, Jim.
Dobyns/ Cause you couldn't (several talking)
Dilkes/ ...that's accurate, Jim.
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Throgmorton/ So it's like, you know, what ... what's on our agenda for with regard to lobbying,
in a sense.
Hayek/ Well, are there three people who want to, um, add this to a work session, uh, list?
Throgmorton/ I think we should.
Hayek/ And, Jim, I'm sorry. Until I read the materials and I still haven't done so over the last
two weeks, I'm not ... I'm not willing to commit on this. I have some ambivalence
because this gets into the area of where I'm ... I think there' a... some things are clearly
related to City operations and clearly things we should weigh in on. Some things are
clearly not. I don't know where this falls. Maybe somewhere in the middle.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, think it has to do with public health.
Hayek/ Yeah. I know, and ... and ... I need to think about it more. And I promised you I'd look at
those things and I haven't yet so I still will.
Champion/ You get a black star! (several talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I'd be embarrassed to tell the second graders from Hoover about (several
talking and laughing)
Hayek/ Glad I didn't (laughter) All right. Doesn't look like we're putting it on at least right
now. Other...
Karr/ So should I get back to the, understand it's not the 18th, but does it go on the pending list or
it's not anywhere?
Hayek/ It's not on the pending list right now.
Karr/ It's nowhere? I'll get back to him. That's fine.
Meeting Schedule:
Hayek/ My understanding. (several responding) Okay. Uh, anything else on that? Okay,
meeting schedule. That's on IP, uh... (several talking). A lot, yeah! (several talking)
Payne/ Friday at noon (several talking)
Throgmorton/ ...tell everybody about our (mumbled) meeting?
Payne/ On Thursday. You can.
Throgmorton/ Still don't know what it's all about.
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Payne Well, I'm in a different part of it than you are so...
Dobyns/ What's this?
Payne /About our (several talking) yeah, the Regional Workforce Development Board. Jim and I
have a meeting on Thursday.
Throgmorton/ We've been to one meeting as far as I know, and we got this huge briefing that,
you know, and got inundated with material and I ... one meeting! I don't really (several
talking)
Mims/ Yeah, I was there. It'll take you a while. (laughter)
Payne/ That's what I'm gathering too. Just go to the meeting; you'll figure it out!
Throgmorton/ Now we know who to turn ... who to turn to.
Mims/ Not sure I'll be much help!
Upcoming Events / Council Invitations:
Hayek/ Okay, upcoming events, Council invitations? I don't really have anything right now.
You, Jim, you just met with the Cub Scouts earlier this evening. I've got another request
to meet with I think the Shimek Cub Scouts at some point and uh, they were going to
come down tonight but...
Dobyns/ How'd we do with the bell ringing, Mr. Mayor?
Hayek/ Well we, uh, as I understand it I think we came in second place to Coralville, uh, I
thought North Liberty was going to walk away with it, because Mayor Salm stuffed a
$100 bill from his employer into the, uh, into the bucket and then made the mistake of
telling one of the reports that he had done so. (laughter) Outside corporate cash, we
know it was a ... it was a super pac basically! (laughter)
Dobyns/ So youthful vigor is probably not as important as we think it is? (laughter)
Hayek/ Yeah, so, uh, Coralville came up with more money at their location. So...
Dobyns/ All for a good cause! Thank you for doing that (several talking)
Hayek/ ... strategy next time and... (laughter) super pac so ... (laughter) Okay, so we've got, uh,
the meeting's this Friday and I think that's about it other than the next Council meeting.
Okay, well that's it. We've got a nice long break between now and the formal.
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