HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-12-18 TranscriptionDecember 18, 2012 Iowa City City Council Work Session
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Dulek, Ford, Fruin, Karr, Moran, Bentley, Davidson, Craig,
Yapp, Reichart, Long, Drier, Rocca, O'Brien, Fosse
Others Present: Bramel (UISG)
Agenda:
Page 1
Hayek/ Okay, want to welcome everyone to the, uh, work session for December 18th. Uh,
Council Member Dobyns is going to be here within just a few minutes, uh, but he
instructed us to go ahead and get started without him. What I thought we'd do, uh, since
the bulk of this evening will be on the College /Gilbert, um (mumbled) bullet point. With
...with your permission I'd like to tackle all the other agend ... uh, bullet points first and
then, uh, get those out of the way and then ... and then go back to the other ones. So...
Champion/ That's fine!
Mims/ Makes sense.
Hayek/ With that, why don't we take up questions from Council regarding agenda items.
Item 2d(11) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION APPROVING, AUTHORIZING AND
DIRECTING THE MAYOR TO EXECUTE AND THE CITY CLERK TO
ATTEST AMENDMENT #1 TO THE JUNE 30, 2009 AGREEMENT BY
AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA CITY AND MMS
CONSULTANTS, INC. TO PROVIDE ENGINEERING CONSULTANT
SERVICES FOR THE WEST SIDE LEVEE PROJECT.
Throgmorton/ Item 2d(11), the west side levee contract. Whatever came of the meeting with
affected residents?
Reichart/ Um, we did have the, uh, public meeting about a month ago. I ... I don't have the exact
date but, um, we did have the public meeting at the Airport. Uh, all the trailer parks,
everything, were notified. Kind of the same area in general that we used for the
McCollister Boulevard project, so ... was included in that mailing list.
Throgmorton/ Was that useful feedback, because I guess ... I don't think we've heard anything
about it (both talking) the fact it was going to be held.
Reichart/ ...I think their main concern was that they kind of knew the project was going on, but
there weren't really any updates, so ... it was just an informative meeting to kind of let
them know what was going on and bring `em up to date on the project, so...
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Markus/ Jason, let `em know who you are.
Reichart/ Oh! I'm Jason Reichart, Special Projects Engineer.
Hayek/ Thanks (several talking) Other... agenda questions?
ITEM 4d CONDITIONALLY REZONING .22 ACRES OF LAND LOCATED AT 221
AND 225 NORTH LINN STREET AND THE ADJACENT .07 ACRE LOT
ASSOCIATED WITH THE MIDAMERICAN SUBSTATION FROM
NEIGHBORHOOD STABILIZATION RESIDENTIAL (RNS -12) TO
CENTRAL BUSINESS SERVICE (CB -2). (REZ12- 00028)
ITEM 13. CONSIDER A MOTION SELECTING THE TOP TWO OR THREE
DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS FOR THE NORTH EAST CORNER OF
COLLEGE STREET AND GILBERT STREET, DIRECTING STAFF TO
BEGIN NEGOTIATING A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT.
Payne/ The only comments that I have is that ... um, I'm going to need to recuse myself from 4d
which is ... urn ... north Linn Street rezoning. And then uh ... I think it's Item ... last item,
the Gilbert (both talking)
Hayek/ ... okay.
ITEM 9. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 5, ENTITLED
"BUSINESS AND LICENSE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 1, ENTITLED
"GENERAL LICENSING PROVISIONS" AND CHAPTER 2, ENTITLED
"TAXICABS" TO REQUIRE A DISTINCTIVE COLOR SCHEME FOR
ALL VEHICLES DRIVEN BY A COMPANY; REQUIRE LOCATION OF
A DISPATCH OFFICE TO BE IN IOWA CITY OR CORALVILLE CITY
LIMITS AND ALLOW FLEXIBILITY FOR DISPATCHING FROM THE
OFFICE; RESTRICT NEW COMPANIES TO STARTING JUNE 1 OF
EACH YEAR; CLARIFY LANGUAGE REGARDING VEHICLE
LETTERING, AND REQUIRE DRIVER IDENTIFICATION TO BE
POSTED IN THE VEHICLE FACING THE PASSENGERS. (PASS AND
ADOPT)
Throgmorton/ I have a couple more. I don't know if anybody else ... (several responding) All
right. On Item 9, the taxi ordinance. Marian and two independent owner - operators and I
had a pretty, uh, useful meeting. I don't know ... about a week ago I guess, Marian, and
from that, uh, came the idea of deferring our vote, uh, tonight's vote, with regard to the
taxi ordinance to our January 8th meeting, uh, to give Marian an opportunity to run an
idea past the, uh, the taxi company owners. Uh, so I would request that we defer action
on that ordinance until January 8th
Hayek/ What's the, uh, idea?
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Throgmorton/ Has to do with the color scheme. There's... there's certain, uh, people who own
their own vehicles, but work for, uh, companies (both talking)
Champion/ ...contract with them. They don't really work for them, right?
Throgmorton/ Uh, they ... well, I keep hearing they work for them.
Champion/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ ...and they ... so they have ... their cabs are labeled as being part of Redline or...
what ... what's the other company?
Karr/ I'm...
Throgmorton/ ...was another company you had there...
Karr/ Big Ten Aardvark.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, thank you! So the cabs are labeled and the phone numbers of the
companies are listed on the cabs, but their ... the vehicle goes ... the vehicles themselves
are owned by these, uh...
Karr/ Owner- operators.
Throgmorton/ Owner- operators. So there's um ... I think there's an opportunity for some
transitional language with regard to those individuals. Uh, there may be 15 or so, I
gather, ou ... out of the total number of taxi drivers in ... in town. But anyhow, the idea
was to run, um, the possibility of providing a ... a transitional period for those, uh, owner-
operators, uh, with a defined period of time in mind, and uh, Marian was going to run the
idea past, uh, the company owners, is ... at least that's the way I understand it.
Karr / Right. We have no idea how many owner- operators there are because the City does not
license owner- operators. (both talking) We license companies and drivers.
Throgmorton/ Right.
Karr/ So whether the companies... this initiative, this request for color scheme, along with the
other proposals before you, came from the companies themselves. So the owner-
operators were wondering about a transition period and whether the companies are
interested I can't tell you because I've not...
Dobyns/ Jim, would it be ... cause Michelle and I had a similar conversation. Would it be
reasonable just to ... jettison that one item? Rather than just delay this, and just ... I don't
know if we can operationally do that, um, without... putting in another work session. I
mean, it's on the agenda. Um ... how bout just making a motion to delete that one clause?
Would that be sufficient?
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Throgmorton/ Well...
Mims/ Well, but I wonder ... I mean, I wonder if there's a bigger issue here that ... that we need to
look at and address, and that is this whole owner- operator, and whether we come back
and say they're illegal or do we find some way to accommodate them within the code.
Because obviously right now, technically they're illegal. Is that correct?
Karr/ Technically there is no such beast as an owner- operator.
Mims/ So if they're out there operating as an owner- operator, they're...
Karr/ They ... they are not operating as an owner- operator. They are... operating as a company.
This is what ... the decal on their car is to a business. It is not to an owner- operator.
Mims/ Okay.
Dulek/ We don't regulate whether the relationship between the driver and the company is an
employer - employee, or an independent contractor.
Mims/ Okay.
Dulek/ We...
Hayek/ We treat them as part of a company that we regulate. (several talking)
Dulek/ Yes!
Champion/ Right. Um, well, I'm sure we ... they've met with most of us, and they do make some
legitimate arguments, um, they have their own customers, generally. At least the two that
I met with. Um ... and I do think we've put them at a possibility they won't be able to
operate anymore because not only do they have to pay the cab company they are
affiliated with, but to paint their cars, which I guess are kept in really great shape to begin
with, uh, it's very expensive. So I would like to see them accommodated. I'm not sure
how we can do it, or even if we can do it, but I would like to see some accommodation
for them. Did you meet with them ... did everybody meet with them? What ... what'd you
think, Michelle?
Payne/ I ... I thought the same thing. I would like to find some way to ... maybe accommodate
isn't the word that I would use, but to see if we can fit them into the regulations so that
they can still operate, um, but follow the regulations that we put forth and I ... I think that
we may not ... we may do something to jeopardize their business if...with doing ... the way
that it's written (both talking)
Champion/ The other interesting thing that they brought up, and as you all know I'm not a
technology expert! Uh, I'm not ... I'm just kind of a novice! (laughter and several
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talking) But I am the oldest one here, and ... uh, there, they use, I mean, there's an icon
on your phones and they ... you can push the icon for cab and it tells you where the
nearest cab is and I don't know if we're taking that into account when we talk about, um,
have to go through a dispatcher. Um, I mean, that's kind ... kind of a new technology that
I don't know...
Karr/ None of the companies have requested that. The companies that we license...
Champion/ Have not requested it.
Karr/ Have not requested that. There is no provision in there on how, what dispatching is. Each
company dispatches the way they (both talking) so if a company wishes to dispatch that
way, they certainly (both talking)
Champion/ ...they can.
Karr/ There's no prohibitive to that.
Champion/ Okay, okay. All right.
Karr/ I think the concern we have primarily is one that we want to be sure that an independent
individual who has clients is properly insured.
Champion/ Right!
Karr / And that's why we license the companies and secure the insurance, and that's of somewhat
...and that's why they have the affiliation and the decal. So that relationship and that
dispatching assumes they go through the company of which they're licensed to do
business, and pick up their fares that way. If you want us to look at that, that is a
different aspect than what we typically have been doing.
Hayek/ It seems to me that ... that what ... what's up for pass and adopt, and what we've been
talking about, is a set of, um ... uh, minor mod ... what I would describe as fairly minor
modifications to an existing ordinance, um, relating to color schemes and ... and
notification to the rider and these nuts and bolts issues, um ... and as I understand it, the
...this group apparently only has at this point an issue with one of those details, the color
scheme. The other issues appear to (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...the most onerous issue and it's the one we talked most about during (both
talking)
Hayek/ Okay. So ... that's one chunk of decision making for us. I think a separate decision
making category has to do with what you guys are talking about in terms of how
...whether and how we recognize these independent operators who hire through a
licensed company. Um, and it seems to me that we could adopt all of this ordinance
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or .... or carve out a portion and adopt the rest of it, but if we want to take a look at the
other issue, do that as a... as a stand - alone.
Champion/ And how would you suggest we do that?
Hayek/ Well it would se ... I just...I think the two aren't related. I mean, other than they deal
with the same industry.
Champion/ Oh!
Hayek/ And what I would suggest is that we ... I'd kind of like to ... like us to vote this up or
down, or carve out the ... the color thing.
Dobyns/ Why carve out the color and then vote it up or down? And then come forth and reinsert
language?
Karr/ Could we... could we potentially, if that's the wishes of Council, could you potentially
then, if you wish to do that, carve out the color scheme and defer it til January 8th
There's some timing elements in here that I'd like to give the businesses, and the owner-
operators, as much notice as possible on the Council's intention to change come this next
licensing year. So I don't want to...
Mims/ ...the color but not defer the rest of it; pass the rest of it tonight? Or vote on it (both
talking)
Karr/ We certainly could do that, is take out the color, defer it til January 8th so it puts us all on a
timeframe to put it back on your (several talking) Um, and then we could proceed...
Hayek/ The reason is cause these ... these license and ... and, you know, when during the year
they're effective, etc. and...
Karr / And then you get everything else off the table if...my understanding is, as Jim has
indicated, that was the biggest concern of the owner- operators was color.
Champion/ It is, yes.
Karr/ Nothing else, so then we concentrate on that one remaining issue for your January 8th
meeting, but we defer it specifically so we address it in a timely fashion.
Champion/ Okay.
Karr/ Come back to you, and I believe we can give it then ... we'll pick up where we left off with
third reading at that time.
Hayek/ And then it would seem to be another decision we need to make, do we want to work
session the ... the broader license issue?
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Karr/ Well ... and that's just it. I haven't had (both talking) an opportunity to check on that. I am
off the top ... I'm not aware of any ... city that handles owner... owner...
Throgmorton/ With regard to owner- operators, I ... by no means any expert on this, but I
understand that there are ... because of technological change, there are questions about the
structure and operation of the taxicab business in general, and ... and we don't ... we can't
possibly take that on in a work session. It's just too much for ... for us to focus on,
but ... but I think it's something that probably needs some attention downstream. Um,
so ... so I...I'd say for right now, let's just defer... take... vote on everything except for the
color scheme, defer it to January 8th, but then we might want to revisit this whole issue at
some point, uh, in the fairly near future. I don't mean the whole issue. I mean...
Champion/ Right!
Throgmorton/ ...technological changes that affect the industry and should alter the way in which
we ... we regulate.
Dobyns/ Just to be clear, I think it's the paragraph six on page two of the item. I think the,
except for pedi cabs, restaurant vehicles and airport shuttles, the paragraph beginning
with that. I think that's the (both talking)
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Karr/ Well we'd ... we'd redo the title and everything though, so I mean we just take out any
reference to the color scheme throughout the ordinance, to enable us to go ahead with it,
if that ... if that's your wishes.
Champion/ Okay.
Payne/ So we would make a motion...
Karr/ To delete the color scheme reference at this time, and defer it to January 8th, and proceed
with the others as outlined.
Payne/ So would we need to do it twice? Once with the...
Karr/ No.
Payne/ ...the way it's written and once ... okay. Just ... make the motion.
Karr/ ...less restrictive, not more. You're taking it out.
Payne/ Okay. Make the motion to, okay, got it.
Hayek/ I'll read the item...
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Payne/ Yep.
Hayek/ ... you know, that takes it out.
Payne/ Okay.
Hayek/ Thanks.
ITEM 11. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ADOPTING AN URBAN CHICKEN
POLICY.
Throgmorton/ One other quick point with regard to urban chickens. (laughter) You remember
last time we, uh, I indicated, uh, an intention to move to, um, eliminate the veto section,
uh, which is titled what? It's got a title. Uh, the neighborhood consent section from the,
uh, urban chicken's policy. Uh, and that we would then vote that up or down that that
motion to amend. And that would... it would eliminate, uh, the neighborhood consent
provision after two years. Be an automatic sunset, disappearance of that provision. I... I
don't know how everybody will vote on that, but I do intend to do that and I just wanted
to remind everybody of that.
ITEM 2d(6) CONSIDER A RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING NEW GENERAL
GUIDELINES TO ASSESS FIRE DEPARTMENT FEES AND
RESCINDING RESOLUTION NO. 10 -35.
Mims/ On 2d(6), this is the Fire Department fees. Um ... very supportive of it. I just had a
question if any attempt has been made to quantify these in a manner that I'm assuming
this is like nursing homes and that sort of places where you're getting the calls, so they
kind of upfront have some idea, I mean, I know you've got in here like hourly rates and
this and that, but ... have you made any attempt to contact them or give them, you know, if
we get called to help put somebody back in their bed, if that. —or in a chair, you know,
you kind of... your minimum cost is going to be such and such, I mean...
Rocca/ Yeah, we've quantified that. I mean, look at our fee schedule. If you have an hourly rate
and say the unit that you send out there is worth $85 an hour, personnel costs are roughly
$75 an hour. It takes us a half hour to do that. Be about $80 for that, and so we've
looked at the history we've created in the least five years to include the 22, you know,
calls that we got on record, year -to -date. Um, the provision that needs to take place yet
and likely will very soon after the first of the year is putting all these, uh, facilities,
entities on notice of our intent to charge them.
Mims/ Okay. And so they'll have a better idea. I ... I just thought if I went through this it
wasn't ... if I were one of those people, I wouldn't have a clear idea of what it might cost
me if I (both talking)
Rocca/ When we communicate with those entities, we can include an example...
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Mims/ Okay.
Rocca/ ...it would be reflective of the charge to date.
Mims/ Okay. Very supportive of what you're doing, but I think that might be helpful for them.
Rocca/ Okay. Thank you.
Mims/ At least from my perspective.
Rocca/ Any other questions on that?
Hayek/ Thanks, Chief!
Rocca/ Thank you.
Hayek/ Anything else on the agenda?
Mims/ (mumbled) fast the i -Pad wants to ... act! (laughter) (mumbled) No, I don't think so.
Hayek/ Okay!
Throgmorton/ It's dawdling! (laughter)
Information Packets:
12/06/2012:
Hayek/ Okay. Info Packets, we have two. First is December 6th. (several talking) Thanks for
the Martha Stewart ... Tom.
Throgmorton/ I ... I guess I do have a question about the December 6th packet, unless somebody
else wanted to bring up something else.
Hayek/ (mumbled) Jim.
Throgmorton/ It concerns IP, uh, Information Packet #2, uh, the memo from Doug Boothroy, uh,
about Dolphin Pointe and residents.
Champion/ Right.
Throgmorton/ Uh... so I don't have problem with terminating a contract with bad managers, or
bad management out there, but I'm ... pretty concerned about the residents. So ... I ... I'd
like to get some clarity about what we are doing to assist residents in finding suitable
substitute housing. I don't know if Doug's here or anybody else who could speak to that?
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Markus/ I think Sue Dulek can respond to that.
Dulek/ I ... I can speak to that. One thing they've given a voucher which is generally I think 120
days. It's for 180 days. So that gives them six months to find something else. They've
been in contact with all the appropriate people, such as the Shelter House, such as the
VA, such as Iowa Legal Aid, etc., etc., etc. They sent out an initial letter, I think that was
in your packet, telling the tenant what's going on. They're going to follow that up, uh,
after the first of the year with another one, with those that haven't found, uh ... um,
housing, that will happen even again. So I think there's a very concerted effort out there
to ... to make sure folks understand, to know what assistance is available, and, uh, so...
uh, if anybody can think of anything else, certainly will do that, but I know that Steve has
been in touch — Steve Rackis — has been in touch will all the local agencies. Everybody
knows what's going on, um, and we're just trying to stay in touch with the tenants on a
regular basis, as well. And I think as ... well, ten of `em have moved already, so that gets
us down to approximately 30 left. But...
Mims/ I thought it looked pretty complete in terms of (mumbled) been done and information
provided to them. So ... very appreciative of that.
Throgmorton/ Thanks, Sue.
Hayek/ Anything else on the December 6th packet? Okay, December 13th Info Packet, anything?
12/13/2013:
Hayek/ We uh ... should we do the KXIC since it's on there?
Champion/ Oh, yeah!
Throgmorton/ I guess I'm substituting for Michelle tomorrow, right?
Payne/ Yes! Hopefully! (laughter)
Hayek/ If, uh, no one wants it, I guess I could do the day after Christmas.
Champion/ What?
Throgmorton/ Lucky you!
Hayek/ No, I don't want to but I mean ... says no one available.
Karr/ There's no one available, meaning they don't (both talking) it's ... we don't need to!
Hayek/ I thought you were just sort o£..
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Karr/ No!
Hayek/ ...tugging on our heartstrings here. No one available! (laughter)
Karr/ No!
Dickens/ January 9th
Karr/ January 9th, Dickens.
Dickens/ Yeah.
Payne/ Um ... I'll take January 23rd
Hayek/ I can do the 16tH
Champion/ I can do any day ... any Tuesday and Wednesday in January. So what's ever left over.
Since I didn't do December.
Mims/ What about February 6th? That's the one left it looks like.
Champion/ Yeah! That's okay, I can do that.
Mims/ Is that all of them then?
Karr/ I have the 19th Throgmorton; then 91h Dickens, 16th Hayek, 23`d Payne; 20...the 6th of
February Champion.
Champion/ Yeah.
Karr/ Okay. (several talking) Thank you.
Payne/ Wait a minute! Wait a minute! (several talking)
Karr/ You're locked in! (several talking)
Payne/ I said January 23`d, right? (several responding) (mumbled)
Hayek/ Anything else on the, uh, Info Packet? Okay. Uh, Council time.
Council Time:
Payne/ Uh, let's see. Is this the place where I would talk about, uh, I have a conflict for a
meeting if we were going to have one on April 2nd. I mean you haven't gone that far but
I think that would be the next. I will be out of town that week.
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Karr / Why don't, um, I certainly can put that on the next ... the next work session. We can talk
about it in January.
Payne/ Okay.
Karr/ With that noted. If you have any other conflicts we can work that in. I'll send a note out.
Payne/ Can we send you `em all? (laughs)
Karr/ Uh, all? Sure! (laughter)
Pending Work Session Topics:
Hayek/ Okay. Let's move on to pending work session topics. IP3. This'll be on January Stn,
we're taking up the, uh ... corridor compact, anti - piracy stuff. (mumbled) the list of
pending topics to be scheduled.
Payne/ So are we going to put on January Stn the color scheme thing for the taxi thing, to talk
about it (both talking)
Karr/ We'll have it on the agenda.
Payne/ Okay!
Dickens/ Do we have anything on the, uh ... like bars, restaurants, that was on the (mumbled)
Champion/ Oh, right!
Hayek/ Yeah, that should be (several talking)
Champion/ I had two liquor licenses, is that what it was (several talking)
Dickens/ Yeah within so many feet. Outside the downtown...
Champion/ Outside the ... right.
Davidson/ It's on the urban planning division's pending work list. We just haven't got to it. We
got four new cases this week. You know, it just gets shunted down. If...if there's a
priority that you want to assign to it, please let us know and we'll .... we'll try and move it
up. Otherwise it's ... it's on the list. We'll get to it.
Dickens/ Just wanted to make sure it was on our ... work session.
Meeting Schedule:
Hayek/ Okay. Meeting schedule.
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Mims/ Got plenty of `em!
Hayek/ Anybody want more meetings?
Champion/ No! (laughter)
Upcoming Events / Council Invitations:
Hayek/ Uh, upcoming events, Council invitations.
Throgmorton/ Probably! (laughter) Oh, nothing!
Hayek/ Bet we've got the Chamber of Commerce sort of save the date, and maybe it was more of
an invitation...
Payne/ ... for January 17 ' .
Hayek/ ...will you be polling people at some point about that?
Karr/ It's in the, yeah, it'll be in the packet. Uh -huh.
Mims/ There's invitation this Thursday to the IC Co -Lab open house, like 9:00 to 4:00.
Throgmorton/ Right.
Mims/ If people saw that.
Champion/ There was another invitation. What was it? The House Built by Women or
something?
Mims/ That was today.
Champion/ Oh! Well ... (laughter and several talking) I just read it in the late information or
whatever it was (several talking)
Hayek/ Okay. Glad we got those things out of the way. We'll turn no to the College - Gilbert, uh,
discussion.
Payne/ I'm going to recuse.
Hayek/ See you later!
Throgmorton/ Bye!
Hayek/ See you at 7:00 rather.
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College- Gilbert Development Proposals, National Development Council Presentation on
Gap Financing Evaluation Methods ( #13):
Davidson/ Uh, good evening, Mr. Mayor and Members of the City Council. I'm Jeff Davidson,
Director of Planning and Community Development. Uh, we're here this evening for the
remainder of the work session, and then you also have an item on your formal agenda this
evening to, uh, continue working through our process of attempting to select a preferred
developer for the College - Gilbert corner. That's the three parcels of property, uh, owned
by the City that we would be transacting to the, uh, developer as well as the
MidAmerican Energy parcel, which will be transacted privately, but be part of the
development parcel. Uh, with me this evening is John Yapp, who in addition to his
duties at the Metropolitan Planning Organization has been the City's project coordinator
for this project, and uh, to my left someone you may not know, Raquel Favela. Uh,
Raquel is with the National Development Council. Uh, works side -by -side with uh, Tom
Jackson. Tom's transitioned ... transitioning to some additional duties, so although we
will continue to see Tom, uh, we'll be seeing more of Raquel and ... and that's great. Uh,
you have the information that Raquel put together in terms of the financial analysis, with
the information that we have at this time, and Raquel's going to talk more about this
that's attached to the, uh, memo that John's going to step through. Um, I have just a
couple of things to say, and then John is going to walk through the information which is
intended to clarify information, uh, that is in the five proposals. Obviously you've
received a great deal of public input, and we want to thank everyone for a very gratifying,
uh, public input process. It's always great to see the community engaged in ... in giving
their opinions and comments on that, and obviously that is information that you when
you are making your decision will need to take into consideration. What we're here to
present tonight is a little bit more nuts and bolts type things about the ... the proposals, and
certainly to answer any questions that you have. Um ... you know I think we ... we should
feel really good about the proposals. We had five proposals. You know I've been
familiar with other communities that have gone through this process. They haven't had
good response, uh, maybe they've ended up with development teams that they didn't
know or were from out of town. You know, I think we have five really good, strong
proposals. We've vetted them enough to know either they're people we're familiar with
or people that we have investigated enough to know that they're the real deal, uh, they
can accomplish a project like this. So we need to feel .... we have the luxury of five
proposals that ... that I think ... give us a great opportunity here. Um, you know, ultimately
what we're trying to do ... is figure out what project you like, what development team you
like, uh, and.... and.... and make a selection and then mo ... move forward with ... with a
development agreement. Um ... there is some frustration right now, not only from all of
us but with the public, and some of the comments that you've received, is that we don't
have more information. We don't have more specific information, and both John and
Raquel will talk a little bit about that. The stage that we're out... at now, the information
that we have available, and then in the future what we will be able to get as we move
forward with, uh, development agreement. What you have before you are proposals, and
I... and I want to emphasize that. Uh, both in terms of this process and in terms of the
proposals, you have all the flexibility you want to bring to it, in terms of how we proceed
and the project that we ultimately, um, end up with. Uh, there have been a lot of
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questions, a lot of questions, uh, asked and posed. We are attempting to answer as many
of those as possible. Ultimately you all need to decide, uh, the questions that you need to
have answered in order to move forward and ... and make your selection. Uh, as we've
laid out for you ... uh, the goal of course is to arrive at a preferred developer, from with
whom we will then commence negotiation of a specific development agreement, and uh,
a lot.... certainly those of you who are on the Economic Development Committee are
familiar with these, uh, development agreements. We bring them to you first, uh, to have
them approved before they get to the City Council, and that's what we're working
towards. As part of that agreement will be a financial gap analysis, and Raquel's going to
talk more about that, which is required of all projects that receive City financial
assistance. We will be going through that exercise with the preferred developer, and
that's when we get much, much more specific about the financing arrangement that we're
going to have with the, uh, preferred developer. Um... as I mentioned, we have the
luxury of also being able to select a first and second alternate, in addition to the preferred
developer. Uh, and that ... that's a great luxury to have, because it basically keeps
everyone's feet to the fire, in terms of negotiating that development agreement, and if we
are unable to reach agreement with the preferred developer, we then have a second or
third alternate that we can go to, and we would hope to set it up, uh, like that. We are
also giving you the opportunity, um, if you continue to have what you feel are
unanswered questions, uh, let's try and keep the process going. If you can narrow down
the field from five to two or three, keep them all equal, and then indicate to us, uh, what
additional information you need to make a decision. We can then spend the next six or
eight weeks while you're all busy with the budget, uh, in the month of January; come
back to you around the first of Feb... first of February with the additional information
you've asked for, and continue this process. We've kind of set that up as an either /or,
and ... and in terms of the discussion that you're going to have when we're all finished,
you can maybe see which direction you want to go there. So, uh, at that point are there
any questions before John and uh, Raquel step through the, uh ... uh, step through the
information that you've received, and by the way — at any time interrupt us and ask
questions. That's fine.
Hayek/ I'm going to lay out a ... a suggestion I have and I ... I vetted it with staff for how we
approach this, but it would follow what you folks are going to present. So I think we'll
just go ahead and...
Davidson/ Okay.
Hayek/ ...hear you out and welcome you and ... and then take up our conversation. Thanks.
John!
Yapp/ Uh, good evening, John Yapp. Uh, we issued the request for proposals, uh, on August
31 St, uh, for development of the College - Gilbert property. Uh, this map, which was
included in that RFP, uh, shows the project location at the corner of College Street and
Gilbert Street, in association with other public facilities, uh, near the project, including
parking and bus stop, uh, facilities. Uh, and as you can see this site is ... is very well
served by, uh, transportation options, parking, and has a very close proximity to other
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public facilities, which I think is one of the factors that ... that has made it so attractive.
Uh, a closer -in view showing the project site and the MidAmerican Energy site, uh,
which has the substation on it, uh, all of the development proposals have included that
MidAmerican Energy site, uh, and MidAmerican Energy has indicated they would, uh,
work with us, uh, in relocating that substation for ... for a cost, which would be part of the
cost of development. Uh, there have been some questions related to development of the
Chauncey Swan Park site, uh, directly to the north of the identified development site.
Uh, the RFP was issued based on the site at College Street and Gilbert Street. Uh, and
it ... if there's a majority of Council that wishes to discuss the park site let us know after
the presentation and that's one of the things we can ... we can discuss. Uh, this slide
which, and this information is in the staff memo to you as well, is an overview of some of
the, uh, what I'd call physical project elements and ... I think help start to differen...
differentiate between the different projects in terms of the number of floors, uh, ranging
from five stories to 20 stories. Uh, the first floor or the main floor tenant — uh, four of the
five projects include the New Pioneer Co -Op as a proposed tenant. Uh, one project, The
Chauncey, includes, uh, movie theaters operated by FilmScene, uh, bowling alley and
cafe on that main level. Uh, the projects are distinct in terms of the number of office
floors, uh, proposed, ranging from zero to three floors. Uh, they are distinct in terms of
the number of dwelling units, uh, proposed and one project, The Chauncey, also includes
a 35 -unit hotel, uh, as part of that project mix. Uh, and then similarly they range in terms
of commercial square footage, as well as, uh, gross square footage of the project as a
whole. So these are some of the factors you can use to differentiate between projects, uh,
as we get into the discussion. Uh, we had one question from, uh, Councilman
Throgmorton that we wanted to address. Uh, and ... and was a good question in terms of
... how ... would we compare these project proposals in terms of, uh, property tax
generation, compared to a ... a private project that is unsubsidized. Uh, and Mr.
Throgmorton used a... a private CB -5, uh, building, uh, which translates to a... a five -
story apartment building with retail on the first floor. Uh, and we actually had a ... a, uh,
one of the proposals that ... that was not a finalist fit right into that definition and used that
as an example. Uh, and ... in the near term, uh, approximately the 10 year timeframe a
private building typical of other buildings that are being developed downtown, with retail
on the first floor and apartments in the floors above, uh, would generate more property
tax revenue in the near term. In the long -term however, uh, a more mixed use project of
a higher density, uh, depending on the mass and scale and number of office or
commercial floors in the project, uh, a more mixed -use building would generate more tax
revenue in the long -term.
Mims/ John, would these numbers, are they just total numbers added up per year, or are they
present value numbers of those future tax flows?
Yapp/ It's based on a ... a year one tax revenue estimate just multiplied out by per year.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
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Yapp/ Yeah, it does not include (several talking) Yeah, it does not include any, uh, appreciation
of the property, uh, nor does it include potential land purchase elements. Um, so it's a
very straightforward, simple...
Mims/ Okay.
Yapp/ ...way to differentiate...
Throgmorton/ John, if I could elaborate just briefly on why I asked the question.
Yapp/ Sure!
Throgmorton/ It seems to me the crucial thing that we need to ... we need to ask, and be clear
about, is how do these development alternatives differ from the baseline at the margin. In
other words, if the baseline provides certain ... a certain revenue stream, if it provides
certain amount of housing, etc. How do the alternatives differ from them? What's the
incremental difference? What are we ... in other words, what's it costing us and what are
we getting, in terms of each of those alternatives at the margin. I think that's the crucial
question.
Champion/ And I just want to clarify something. So this doesn't include any appreciation.
Yapp/ That's correct.
Champion/ So that would certainly alter how long a TIF would be in place, and how much actual
taxes we would be getting (mumbled) would it not?
Yapp/ Um, Raquel can talk a little bit about that more specifically, but yes.
Champion/ I just ask the question because that's what happened with, uh, Plaza Towers. Is it
not? It appreciated to the point where it was paying more taxes.
Yapp/ And the, uh, tax increment financing was paid off sooner than...
Champion/ Right!
Yapp/ ...than initially anticipated.
Champion/ Right.
Yapp/ That's correct.
Champion/ Right. Okay. Like seven years.
Yapp/ Yeah.
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Champion/ Okay. Great. Thank you.
Yapp/ Um, so the ... the financial element, uh, which Raquel will go into a little bit more, is
certainly... an important factor, along with other factors. Uh... and the criteria that were
included in the RFP, which are consistent with, uh, the City's economic development
goals include, uh, and again, increasing the taxable value of property, uh, redevelopment
of blighted property, encouragement of desirable projects such as downtown hotels,
workforce housing, arts and entertainment venues, downtown grocery, class -A office
space, and similar uses; encouragement of projects which result in increasing downtown
destination points, uh, providing a safe and inviting downtown, and encouragement of
housing opportunities for residents from a variety of age groups and income levels. Uh,
these are adopted, uh, goals by the City. And I think these goals, the ... the financial goals
and ultimately what Council considers, uh, the merits of each project and which project
best meets these goals, uh, will lead to the selection of a ... of a preferred developer.
Throgmorton/ John, I need to hop in there also.
Yapp/ Sure.
Throgmorton/ I think those are clearly reasonable and appropriate criteria, and I totally
understand where they come from and all that. Uh, but it seems to me that we heard, uh,
at least two other criteria clearly articulated during our public hearing. Uh, and...
Hayek/ (mumbled) interrupt you, Jim, and the reason is that we're ... after we hear this
presentation we're going to talk about the process we want to follow and I think we'll
have a discussion about...
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Hayek/ ...whether and how to amplify what they're proposing...
Throgmorton/ Okay, good deal.
Hayek/ ...would be part of the ... just in terms of structure.
Yapp/ Oh, and I think public comment is a .... is certainly a factor in this process as well. (several
talking) Uh, and finally, um ... in your memo we attached a, uh, matrix of project
elements, and it's shown on the overhead currently. Uh, again, to ... to start to
differentiate, uh, factors, uh, with each project. Uh, and there are some distinctions. Uh,
for example, some of the projects have, uh, a large amount of workforce rental
housing... proposed in the project. Uh, one project, uh, has a small amount of workforce
rental, but also a small amount of `for sale' workforce housing. One project as you heard
in the developer presentations, uh ... is attempting to reach a LEED platinum goal for
development with a net zero energy use, uh, in other words the building would generate
the energy for the residential units; however, all the projects have noted that they will
attempt to meet, uh, LEED certification at one level or another. Uh, and there's some
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distinction in terms of the square footage of office and commercial space, and whether
that space is proposed to be rented or ... or sold. Uh, so we hope this information gives
you some... some, uh... criteria by which to differentiate between the projects. At... at
this time, unless there's any questions for me, I'll turn it over to Raquel to discuss some
of the financial, uh, investigations we've done.
Hayek/ Great! Thanks, John! Welcome, Raquel!
Favela/ Thank you! Um, so ... I ... I've had an opportunity this afternoon to also read some of the
public comments from the previous meeting and so I thought it was helpful in my
discussions with Jeff and John to really, uh, take this opportunity to explain where in the
development process we're at, and why we're pointing to your decision today as one
where you narrow down, um, who you want to work with, based on all these other
criteria that you're evaluating, um, because really at this point they're all just proposals,
and whether or not you decide to go with one or the other, um, the staff is trying to
provide you and the public with an opportunity to impact the design and the
programming for the building, and those things have a financial impact on that gap
analysis, and so ... so far, uh, in an effort to provide you with some apples to apples
comparison, really what we ... the only thing we could do for you is look at the assessed
valuations, right? So for each of the proposals, we looked at as proposed what their
added values would be, um, based upon their, um, requested financial assistance, how
long it would take, uh, to pay that off. And again, those are all based on some
fundamental assumptions we don't know will result in a final project. Um, also wanted
to make a note that in the memo that you received from, um, Tom and I, uh, there was a
calculation where, again, we were trying to give you some apples to apples comparisons,
so we looked at the total area project components and calculated a cost per square foot,
and there was one error on the Chauncey Gardens project, so we wanted to make a note,
um, in that table, uh, the cost per square foot is $350. Uh, we had taken out some
elements in ... in several of our runs of that, but I just wanted to take this opportunity to
point that out. So ... again, the basic gap analysis is taking a look at the total project costs,
less the loan that the project can attract based upon its income stream, and ... and the
lender's terms, and then subtracting out the owner equity that will still provide the owner-
developer with a fair market return on their investment and the difference from that will
be the gap, uh, and where the City resources would come into play. So we start with the
total project costs and this is where we are trying to ... um, remind you that you're still in
the forming the idea and the development concept stage. So, um, once you narrow down
this field to which developer or, you know, narrow down the field to one or two
developers that you would like to work with, um, then we really need to get down to
identifying the actual program for the building. What's the product mix and type.
What's the actual square footage. Uh, there are some, uh, really huge distinctions in
terms of scale of building, for example. So what would be supported not just by, um, the
market, but also by the community. So 20 stories? Will that be supported? Two stories?
You know, we don't know that but it'll have a huge impact on the actual gap analysis,
right, because it impacts cost and it'll impact net operating income, how much debt can
be attracted to the project. So all of these things will impact, um, you know, how much
information we can provide you. So ... once we go through, um, with your guidance on,
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uh, and the public input, on programming, then we can determine the financial, uh,
feasibility of the project, right, look at other site and design constraints that need to be
accommodated, what other goals need to be met, um, and then start to put together the
actual income and expense statement so that, um, I wanted to point out to you that this is
really the, when you ask us for a gap analysis, the number that we're looking for is a net
operating income — a stabilized net operating income. So when the project is, um, fully
leased or leased at maximum capacity based on reasonable, um, vacancy rates based on
your market, and based on operating expenses that are supported by market information,
how much cash will this project generate. So that that's going to determine how much
the lenders will lend and what kind of return the developer can expect. Right? So, once
you put, um, our total, uh, sources and uses of funds, how much will they incur during
construction, what are the costs that need to be covered during construction, how much
has to be covered at permanent, um, and then what other sources of funds are available.
There's been a great deal of talk about TIF. We ... we don't know if that's a source that's
actually going to be available. We'd have to know the, again, the final assessed values
that we can estimate based on the final program. And then the developer can move
forward with obtaining the permanent financing. Right. That would be the next step in
the process. So until they actually get, uh, to that point, we really can't determine how
much equity they need to put in and how much gap financing you'll need to, uh, provide.
Um, and then a whole bunch of other things need to happen that are part of the
development agreement. For instance, there's gotta be a ... an actual construction loan,
um, for the transaction. There's gotta be a... an agreement between the construction
lender and the permanent lender on who's going to, um, be responsible for construction
inspections and all that, you know, that, uh, has to be agreed upon in advance of
negotiating with the lenders and the developers, and then you move to the actual final
construction drawings, right, and this is where you start to get hard numbers, um, and
really frankly the responsibility of the staff will be, uh, we've got a general program for
the building, we've got cost estimates. Now we need to compare that with the actual
construction contract costs to see if the gap financing is still warranted. So it's a ... it's an
ongoing process, um, to determine. So essentially your development agreement is set up
so that you're not subsidizing beyond a certain amount and that yields a certain amount
of return to the developer. Um, and... and then frankly and the most important aspect of
this is on the operation's side. So you want to have a product that you know is going to
be successfully managed, um, and it's going to be leased, and that you're going to feel
comfortable with the property management team that is selected for the project. It's a lo..
...long long -term investment for the City. Um... so at this point, in the due diligence
process, we really need your help finalizing a selection of a developer so that we can
finalize a development concept. Again, that's supported by the community and the
market. And that you feel comfortable with, uh, negotiating with the development team.
And then our job will be to help you review their operating proformas, their assumptions
for, uh, costs, um, and revenue streams, uh, this will give an opportunity to actually call
and check, um, development team references and review other projects that they've done.
If that's something that you still have questions about once you've narrowed down the
field. Um, but our job will be to make sure that ... their assumptions in their operating
proformas are reasonable and that we can verify them with similar, comparable projects
in this market. Uh, we want to make sure that we can also verify these things through
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appraisals. Want to make sure that the rents that they expect, the vacancy rates that
they're anticipating, are all adequate and not overstated in any way. Um, and then some
key things that you ought to consider just in general, uh, is ... is the developer willing to
contribute equity to the transaction? Right? That's... that's reasonable expectation, uh, in
this type of project. Um, can we verify their construction costs, um, for ... what is
expected? If they're also, if the developer is also the contractor, when we look at their
total fees, as developer and contractor, are they reasonable? Is it a reasonable profit and
overhead? How do their fee arrangements with the architectural and engineering firms,
are they reasonable? Do they track industry standards for this market? So all of these
things will come, it's just we're not at that point yet. Uh, so ... so to make those
assessments, I think that it would be helpful if we focused on, uh, the developer's
experience with this type of project, which we can ... with whatever concept you feel most
comfortable with and you feel meets more of your public policy goals. Um, do they have
that experience, because this is truly, as you know, a very specialized business. So, um,
and do they have the financial strength to cover cost overruns and to manage operating
losses? Is there a plan in the event that there are operating losses? Is there a plan to ... to
meet those (noise on mic) shortfalls? And again, we can't overemphasize how much
equity is the developer willing to invest in the transaction? And still provide them a fair
return on that investment. So...
Hayek/ Thank you!
Davidson/ Thank you, Raquel and John. Good presentation. So hopefully that's clarified where
we are now ... in the process, where we want to get to, what information we have
available at this point, what information we will eventually have, uh, available. There are
clearly some things that, boy it'd be great to have them now but it is going to involve tens
of thousands of dollars of expense from the developer to get from this point to where that
information is available. Typically that would be done after the selection of the preferred
developer, getting into schematic design, getting financing more specific, finalizing the
project concept, which as Raquel says is what we really need to do first and foremost,
um, in the case of... you ... you've even ... you even have correspondence from some of the
proposers saying well we could do this or we could do this. You know, that's all gotta be
nailed down before we can really get to the specifics. So at this point is there any
question about the process and then we'll just open it up for discussion.
Hayek/ Well let me, uh, weigh in at this point. Um, here's what I'm going to propose we ... we
do today. Um, I don't think, and I ... I think many of you share this, uh, opinion and I
think staff does as well that ... that we're not at a point today to select one, um, and... and
...and zero in on one and start the preferred developer, uh, process. Um, my sense is, and
I ... and I believe this is, uh, sustained by staff opinion as well that we can and should, um,
reduce our number from five to a lesser number. Two or three. Um, and I think they're
suggesting three. Um, today. To continue the process, uh, toward that ... that preferred
developer decision, uh, that ... that we need to make and ... and ... and can make, uh, right
after the first of the year. So to eliminate let's say two developers from the five, um,
which would leave three, we ... we really don't need to rank the three, and it may be
advantageous for us not to rank the three today, um ... but instead to move forward, uh, to
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drat ... to direct staff between now and ... and our first meeting in January to develop a
decision - making matrix, uh, based on the RFP, based on the financial, uh, discussions,
and based on whatever the Council would choose to add to that. Um, in the meantime
invite the developers to review their numbers and if they want to sharpen their pencils or
submit revised figures, uh, you know, encourage them to do so by a date certain, maybe
later this month at some point, um... and then at the January 8th meeting, um, adopt a staff
proposed matrix. Um, and then go through our decisions to narrow it from three to ... to
one or to rank the three, something like that. So I just want to throw that out there, uh, as
an idea.
Mims/ Yeah, I have no, um, no problem with what you're proposing. I guess my only question
would be, you know, in terms of what ... what we're going to ask those two or three that
we ... that we kind of keep on the table. What we're going to ask them to do, say between
now and January 8th, and you know, how much more time and money we're asking them
to put in to it before we actually start negotiating with somebody.
Hayek/ Yep.
Mims/ I mean, they've already put lots of money in and that's, you know, that's part of the
gamble that developers have to do. They're not always going to get chosen but to have a
chance they've gotta put time and money into it, and so just kind of how much more are
we asking to do, um, before we actually start specifically negotiating, but I mean I like
what you're saying.
Hayek/ Yeah ... yeah and to be clear, there's, you know, there's obviously a pre- decision and
post- decision set of real... realities and ... and a certain, you know, there's so much
negotiation and adjustment to be made, even after we select a preferred developer. That's
been clear from the get -go, and so um, I think we have to anticipate that.
Mims/ Yeah. Yeah, we might not even end up signing with our "first" preferred developer
Dobyns/ Well I'd like to start by talking about maybe discarding two and if it's looks like...
Hayek/ Let me just interrupt you. Do you want to add anything to that, Tom, or...
Markus/ No, I just think, uh, asking the developers to sharpen their pencils is really the biggest
question I think that I would pose to the ... to the selected three developers, uh, going
forward, in case they want to reduce their (mumbled) change some of the numbers in
their equation.
Hayek/ Are people generally comfortable with this approach?
Champion/ Sure!
Mims/ I am.
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Throgmorton/ Yeah, I ... I think it's very wise not to try to choose one developer tonight and I'm
completely comfortable with the idea of identifying three and doing the pencil sharpening
kind of thing. Uh, I do think it's really important to do two ... to make sure that we do at
least two separate things. One is to always have the baseline alternative in mind.
Because it's what we're getting that's an addition, and what the cost is in addition to the
baseline that is crucial. And then the second thing is, as I started to allude to, um, in
questioning Jeff is, uh, I think we need to consider two additional criteria that are not
included in the staff's original set of goals and criteria. And ... and one of them has to do
with, uh, rec ... expecting high - quality urban design. And uh, high quality architecture.
That was mentioned in various ways by people who spoke at the hearing, uh, of, uh, two
weeks ago. Uh, and I could elaborate but I don't want to do that right at this moment.
The second thing has to do with, uh, basically long -term sustainability of the project.
That was emphasized over and over and over again in, uh, emails that we received and in
commentary, um, made during the public hearing. And indeed, from all the developers,
but it doesn't appear in the set of criteria that the staff originally listed. From my point of
view, those two criteria matter a lot — the quality of the design, architecture and urban
design; and the, uh, long -term sustainability of the project. And I ... I don't think it's, uh,
reasonable to say, uh, just because one, uh, team says it will aspire to LEED certification
— I don't think that's sufficient, cause you can get, um, quite a few points on LEED just
by having the project located in the downtown area. So, a higher standard, uh, is ... is, we
should call for a higher standard; we should set this as a ... as a ... a ... a significant
objective for our city.
Hayek/ Well if people are onboard with this, why don't we have a discussion about eliminating
two, get it to three, um, and then have a discussion about the decision matrix, for lack of a
better word, and incorporate Jim's comments and whatever other commentary we want to
have. Does that sound all right?
Champion/ Uh -huh.
Mims/ Sure.
Hayek/ Okay.
Dobyns/ (both talking) (laughter) Yeah, that's just ... let's get it going, Um, I just was going to
throw out an issue is that in terms of scope, um, one thing I would put out, throwing out
and discarding would be the Ryan Iceberg, uh, option. In terms of having five floors, um,
I think in terms of being in the central business district what we need to have for our
future property valuation. I mean, I think that's ... to me that's sort of, you know, I'm
really enthusiastic that a group, um, from outside the area came in and was interested. I
think that's great. But at this point, um, I think the scope of that Ryan Iceberg is
something that I would suggest as something that we would discard.
Champion/ And I totally agree. It was the easiest for me to eliminate because first of all it has no
office floors. It doesn't really have any of the, kind of the goals we have for that area,
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and it's small and I think it's going to be conducive to a student housing, and I'm not
against students — thank goodness you're here! But I don't think that's what we want to
see in this area, just another student apartment building, and I think that building's very
conducive to it, cause it doesn't have any other, uh, criteria that I'm looking for.
Mims / And it was all rental.
Champion/ It's all rental! (several talking)
Dickens/ ...most tax values coming in.
Champion/ Well that was easy! (several talking)
Davidson/ I'm hearing four. That was easy! (laughter)
Hayek/ Yeah!
Davidson/ Okay.
Champion/ The other one that I also could eliminate without too much difficult is Zero 4,
although I really like the idea of the building. I think it's also very small, and um, and I
think it's just the size. It's just the size bothers me.
Throgmorton/ Well I have to say, Connie, I completely disagree with that.
Champion/ I'm sure you do! I ... and you should!
Throgmorton/ Especially when we think about the, uh, the commentary that was made by people
in our public hearing, with regard to ... ensuring that the building be of a height that, uh,
and scale that's appropriate to the, uh, to the downtown, especially in a transitional zone
between the core of the downtown and the nearby residential areas, and secondly with
regard to, uh, the sustainability features associated with the projects. I personally would
...would rank that project, you know, in the top three for sure.
Mims/ I think my second one to eliminate would be the Sherman Associates, um, again this was
entirely rental.
Champion/ Oh, right!
Mims/ They're focusing to be mostly toward student housing, developing a University
communities. Urn ... I just...I think we need something, and even with the rest of them
like if we stay with 404, I have a concern about their ratio between rental and sale, uh, I
think that would need to be negotiated, urn ... but Sherman's seemed to be ... their whole
focus was on just rental, which I don't support down there ... at that location. I think to
bring the kind of residential mix that we want downtown, there's ... it's gotta be a mixture
of rental and for sale in these units.
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Champion/ Well I can agree with you on that one.
Dickens/ I would ... I would follow that as well, just looking over all the figures as far as rental
and ... number of years that they're looking at TIF ... I would rate the three top projects as
404, The Chauncey, and Chauncey Gardens.
Hayek/ I'd say with ... with (both talking) with Sherman it's interesting and on the one hand I
think they've got a ... a demonstrated, um...
Champion/ Success?
Hayek/ ... and in terms of the experience you look for in a... in a developer, they've got that in
spades, um, but I am concerned that it is, uh, simply one floor of, you know, retail and
everything else is ... is rental. They ... they will do one floor of office if we guarantee
purchase of it, uh, which is not an enthusiastic approach on ... on that issue. Um... so I...
those ... those are my concerns with respect to that. It doesn't hit on as many of the multi-
use objectives that we've, uh, come up with.
Throgmorton/ I ... I'd say I don't feel much enthusiasm for the Sherman project either, uh, but I'd
say one other ... so, it's not my top three, but I'd say one thing about the, uh ... um, the
Ryan Iceberg project. In some ways it has a certain appeal because it ... because it...it
potentially, you know, if you add a four to it, it could be of a reasonable scale from the
point of view of many, uh, Iowa City residents, but when I ... when I look carefully at
what ... what we would get and how it differs from the baseline, I just don't see much
difference, and ... and so I cannot ... I just don't find myself feeling enthusiasm for it, and
... and, so that matters.
Dobyns/ That's Ryan, isn't it?
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Dobyns/ Yeah, that's what I meant by scale. It just isn't that more than ... what's already there, or
could be there. So...
Throgmorton/ I've given us much more than what could otherwise be there.
Dobyns/ And I agree with, uh...
Throgmorton/ And I don't mean just height, you know, and mass, I mean just...
Hayek/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ ...essence, if you will.
Dickens/ (mumbled)
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Dobyns/ And I would agree with, uh, discarding Sherman and Associates. Option #2.
Bramel/ I would say one thing, um, concerning, um, Sherman, why I'm not against student
housing whatsoever, but I see more enthuse... enthusiasm, hear more enthusiasm for what
would be ... we would be using the first floors for such as the Pioneer, the Bike Library,
the ... the FilmScene. I think that's more of what's generating enthusiasm, moreover than,
uh, student housing. So I would be in agreement with that.
Davidson/ (several talking) ... would be the narrowing down... from five to three. (several
talking) That was ... (both talking)
Hayek/ All of ten minutes of discussion (laughter)
Davidson/ ...commend you on your... decision making.
Dickens/ We can drag it out longer if you'd like!
Additional Criteria:
Davidson/ Shall we devote some time now to additional criteria you would like to see. Jim
started the discussion already.
Hayek/ So, but ... to pause, are we ... are we clear that Ryan and uh, Ryan Iceberg and Sherman
are ... are the ones who we will not proceed with?
Champion/ Yes!
Throgmorton/ Yeah. I ... I'd like to make a request, uh, of Jeff and John, and it has to do with
that marginal analysis notion. In your matrix, uh, could you provide us, if others agree,
could you provide us with a table that clearly indicates how the three ... the three projects
that have risen, uh ... um, compare to the baseline alternative.
Long/ We can.
Throgmorton/ At the margin, you know, how they differ...
Long/ We'll have to make some assumptions about the baseline, but yes we can.
Davidson/ And as Raquel indicated in her presentation, we're making a lot of assumptions, but
as long as your ... we'll explain what those assumptions are. We can tweak them if you'd
like. But we'll lay those out and then yes, Jim, we can produce that information.
Throgmorton/ That's great!
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Dobyns/ I also had a question about workforce, um, type living. Um, I'm trying to, especially in
a university town where there's a very strong market, um, for student housing,
um ... again, this is an area I'd like to ... I'm very interested in ... a reasonable component of
this being workforce development, and I know there's been discussion before about what
sort of things would differentiate between what a workforce, um, type of rental
agreement would be, owner versus rental, versus the layout of the structure. Um, where,
I mean, more likely to be small, young families or something like that, you know, to
emphasize that in terms of what that really means, um, and how we can make sure that
happens, cause I would assume the price would be very, uh...
Davidson/ Price is one factor, and unit type is the other factor.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Davidson/ Those are the two things, uh, Rick that we ... been, that we ... we've used basically to
establish our definition of workforce housing, both for rental and for sale. We've
established specific price points and lease points, and ... and you have seen those and
adopted them, and we can ... we can, uh, bring those back to you for discussion if you'd
like. Um, the other thing is in the unit type. Pretty much limiting it to efficiencies and
ones, and maybe some twos, and that that's the other way to keep the probability of
student housing down, although I concur with every comment that's been made, there's
going to be students living...
Champion/ Sure!
Davidson/ ...there are students that live in Plaza Towers! Um, but ... but through those two
mechanisms, Rick, I think we can control the ... the workforce housing nature and ... and
make sure we have workforce housing in the project.
Dobyns / And the absolute number of, uh, workforce, um, units is different in the remaining three
proposals and I have an interest in maybe... changing that just a little bit and increasing it,
though I don't think it should be a majority. I recognize, uh, the demographics that we're
looking for is more diverse. But I'd be interested in some discussion about what people
(both talking)
Dickens/ ...just one has workforce units listed at ... Chauncey has seven. The other ones don't
have...
Davidson/ You know, a way to look at it from your (several talking)
Dobyns/ ...easy to adjust that, cause...
Davidson/ You can establish some required minimums, 25% of the project, 10% of the project,
50% of the project. You can do it that way, or you can simply say give us your best...
shot, and we can compare the data in terms of what they're willing to do, in terms of
guaranteeing workforce housing.
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Hayek/ I ... I think it's going to be hard for us to quantify these ... this wish list, at least at this
stage, um, to say it's gotta have X % of such and such. I mean we're taking this in the
aggregate. We're making a decision based on, uh, a single building that we hope will last
a hundred years and could have a multitude of uses over time. Um, and so you want to, I
think, step back and look at the broader... picture and um ... I mean that'd be my sense.
That ... that we could get ... we could get stuck pretty quickly if we ... if we set up certain
requirements, unless it's clearly a majority, or clearly a priority, um, of...of this Council.
Throgmorton/ So are we gonna hang with ... this workforce housing topic for a little bit?
Hayek/ Sure, yeah, yeah! Absolutely!
Throgmorton/ Okay. So I guess what I want to say is I ... I support the idea of subsidizing
workforce housing, uh, at the site, but I'm not willing, personally, not willing to subsidize
construction of luxury penthouses, and other contos ... condos in which the vast majority
of our city's residents cannot afford to live. I ... I don't see why we would want to do that,
uh, so just to put that out on the table.
Champion/ Well...
Throgmorton/ Then I have a couple ... let me ask a couple questions...
Champion/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ ...then we can come back to that. Uh, I wonder with regard to the workforce
housing, uh, how can we be sure that the workforce units are occupied by members of the
workforce?
Champion/ Can't!
Throgmorton/ So that's one thing. And the second is, how could we be sure that they would
continue to be occupied by members of the workforce, over time.
Davidson/ There are mechanisms and I might ... I think Steve Long is present. We might have
him step forward if he's still here. Um, he is used to dealing with programs where
affordability is guaranteed. (speaking away from mic) ...can you address that, Steve?
Long/ Sure.
Throgmorton/ Hi, Steve!
Long/ Hi! There ... we can do, uh, similar to our CDBG and Home programs or other, uh,
UniverCity programs, you can ... you can have the developer, um, have a process where
they ... they income - certify tenants, if it's rental. A lot of times, uh, some of the proposals
had tax credit ... tax credits in the proposal. Those have a long -term, 15, 20 years where
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they have to certify, and some programs ... you kind of factor out the student, um, where
...where someone has to be on their parent's income, or on their income taxes. So if
they're on their income taxes then you have to count their parent's income. So that
automatically excludes them from living there. Oops, so there are mechanisms we can
put in place and we can work that out with the developer ahead of time.
Hayek/ I don't have the RFP on my ... piece of technology here, but in terms of the...
Davidson/ John has it memorized!
Hayek/ Yeah, I bet he does! (laughter) Um ... the ... the bullet points that are listed on page four
of the staff memo that say what the RFP include. How closely does that language track
the actual RFP?
Long/ Almost identical.
Hayek/ Okay. So I mean, in terms of the specificity we put into the RFP on, for example,
workforce housing...
Long/ And those ... those were... derived, those goals were derived from the adopted City
Economic Development Policy.
Hayek/ Right.
Long/ And the Downtown Strategic Plan. That's where those came from. Which are both
adopted documents.
Mims/ I have a question. I don't know if staff has seen, um, the email that we got from Peter
Fischer, who obviously's done a lot of work and research...
Davidson/ Saw it late in the day. We haven't had time to look at it in detail.
Mims/ Okay! Um, I don't know if other Council Members concur. I would be interested in
having staff, you know, take a look at some of the points in here on... and I don't know if
this is practical. Um, he talks about, you know, how's the TIF subsidy distributed across
the kinds of uses in such a project. When you've got, you know, multiple different uses —
residential, um, office, you know, commercial, etc., is there a way of allocating, you
know, what we're subsidizing. Jim just talked about personally not willing to be ... not
willing to subsidize, you know, luxury apartments or whatever. Is that something that's
realistic? I ... I don't know, I mean, how we look...
Davidson/ You certainly need to make sure that you're achieving some community objectives.
Mims/ Right.
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Davidson/ ...with a project that includes... includes TIF funding. I mean, the one that we've
done most recently that I think all of you are familiar with is the Park at 201 project,
where basically there were additional office floors that were not required by the zoning
ordinance. I don't think something that's required, we should, you know, be able to
credit but... additional office floors above what the zoning ordinance required and a
guarantee of some of the units ... being in those price points and lease points for
workforce housing. And basically, that was enough for Council to gra... grant the TIF
funding, even though there are two luxury penthouse units in that building as well. You
still achieved some of the community objectives that you were looking for. And I guess
that's the initial approach that we're taking with this project, but ... but again, you have all
the flexibility in the world if you... if you feel like going in some other directions we have
the ability to do that.
Champion/ I just want to, um, I wanted to comment on Jim's comment, um, about subsidizing
luxury housing. You're not really subsidizing luxury housing; you're subsidizing the
building of a structure, and if you don't have luxury housing, you're probably not going
to have workforce housing either, because somebody's got to pay the bill, and workforce
housing probably isn't going to pay the ... pay the bill, so I think the mix of `em is
probably very profitable.
Dobyns/ Mix, yeah, because you want to increase the taxable valuation of property. You do that
best by having high -end units.
Champion/ Yes.
Dobyns/ But still the sense of TIF to me is ... I'm just arguing about zero. I just don't like zero
workforce. Um...
Champion/ Oh we're not going to have zero workforce!
Dobyns/ Yeah, but ... but some of the ... two of the three remaining, it is zero now.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Favela/ I think that's absolutely correct. I mean, as you're looking at the unit mix, what
generates the gross rents, um, is going to be greatly impacted by the types of units that
are market rate versus the units that are going to be, uh, at a reduced rent to achieve that
workforce housing target market. So ... in effect, those higher end units, the market rate
units, are subsidizing your workforce housing units.
Hayek/ Well and to that I would, I mean, this is why this is such a complex decision making
process for us, because you ... every time you move a piece, it affects the remaining pieces
and if you...if you're against height, um, for aesthetic reasons or other reasons, um, that's
okay, but you're removing the ability of... you ... you're contracting the ability of the
project to pay for the, uh, less lucrative components of it, um, apropos your point about
the luxury housing, and ... and even, you know, the more community amenities you want
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...you want in there, you know, depending on how ... what your return on investment is,
there's a subsidy to that. So that's the difficulty of this, I think, from our perspective.
Favela/ Absolutely! So ... so really it...it is a matter of identifying just some target goals, not
... I ... I agree. You can't really dictate the number of units because that ought to depend
upon what the financing of the project can support, right?
Champion/ And I just want to cor ... I mean, all of these provide some workforce housing,
somebody said some of `em don't provide any! They all provide some!
Mims/ Yeah, those three...
Dickens/ ...rental are up here. We were looking at the ones for sale.
Champion/ Well, yeah...
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Champion/ Oh, right, right.
Throgmorton/ (several talking) ...provides 14, at least as I read the table for...
Champion/ Seven rental and seven for sale.
Throgmorton/ Yeah. Um ... why would we want to subsidize that?
Champion/ Why not?
Throgmorton/ I mean, just ... just to be argumentative for a second you know...
Mims/ Well, because you're also ... you're also subsidizing FilmScene and the bowling lanes.
Throgmorton/ Right. So the question is (both talking) what do we really value, I mean, that's
what we just have to be clear about, right?
Mims/ I agree!
Yapp/ We can take a stab as staff to provide a, uh, I think a decision - making matrix (several
talking) was the term. Um, and I guess I'd ask what, besides the factors we would
normally include, number of office floors, uh, the types of uses, number of units, number
of workforce housing units, etc., what other information would you like on that?
Hayek/ Yeah, and... and let me, uh, add to that and say, you know, we have to be careful as a
Council. We can't be at 100,000 feet above ground looking down, but we can't be on the
ground either, and ... and at least from now through the next stage or two, we're going to
have to rely on staff's, uh, discretion at some ... to some degree to, or maybe to a large
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extent, to propose a rationale, workable matrix, um, and ... and help us, uh, through this.
It seems to me, and so getting back to John's point, I mean, we ... I think, you know, what
we need to decide now is ... do, how do we want to amplify the ... the decision making
matrix. We've already got the RFP points which we need to include. Um, we've got the
financial analysis, um, that ... that's in there already and I think we rely on staff and NDC
to help refine that and get them into, you know, sort of a workable context, uh, through
the matrix. And then I think we should decide on, you know, what else we want to add to
it. Jim, you had a couple of points and ... and others may as well.
Throgmorton/ Maybe I could elaborate a little bit about, uh, the architectural and urban design
elements that I was thinking about.
Hayek/ Sure.
Throgmorton/ Um, and ... and again, much of this based on what we heard in ... in the public
hearing and in emails from various people, uh, so I would say it's ... it's important that the
preferred building's design be compatible with and enhance our downtown's unique
sense of place, and uh, and ...and that the scale, height, mass of the building be
appropriate for a transitional zone. That's my assessment. I'm not claiming anybody
else believes this. Um, between downtown and the residential neighborhood to the east.
I think we have to take that ... that three- dimensional character. It's about urban design.
Into account. And ... the second thing is, uh ... I'll just introduce the topic uh, and we'll
talk about maybe in a minute, but purely in terms of urban design, it seems to me that the
north end of the block is better, is preferable, to the south end of the block.
Hayek/ Well to that .... now that takes us into (both talking) unchartered water here.
Throgmorton/ Well... (several talking)
Davidson/ ...can address it. We ... we talked about that internally when we were preparing the
presentations this afternoon, and basically wanted to see ... John deliberately didn't say
much about that because (laughter) we wanted to see if you wanted to go there basically.
If there's a majority of Council that wants to consider the park site in lieu of the existing
site, our conclusion and our recommendation to you is to reject all the proposals and start
over. (several talking) Because... because we feel that's the fair way to do it ... for the
developers.
Champion/ I'm not interested in doing that.
Throgmorton/ Even ... even if we've already just said we ... we want to look at three development
proposals in more detail, cause they would all have an equal opportunity to revise. So I
mean I just want to be clear about this.
Yapp/ But I think others that... either responded to the RFP or might have responded to the
RFP ... uh, if it was the park site versus this site ... uh, I agree the fair thing to do would be
to start over.
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Davidson/ I mean, in terms of public process, and I mean, Sue correct me if you feel differently
from a legal perspective, but our thought is that if you start over you start over, and it's
...it's public property and...
Hayek/ And I think the investment that has been made by the nine, uh, applicants and then
additional investments by the ... by the five, I mean, those numbers are probably
staggering. I think it would be a real issue to...
Davidson/ But to clarify, you have every right to reject the proposals and start over, if that's the
direction you'd like to go. There's nothing keeping you from doing that. We did check
the covenants, if there were any covenants with the park property and of course you don't
have to go back very far. That was a parking lot before it was a park, 15 years ago it was
a parking lot so it can be sold for redevelopment (several talking)
Mims/ ...if we didn't have...
Markus/ ...other reasons that staff listed that, um, cause some concerns about moving that park
to the north. Did you ... did you walk through those publicly?
Yapp/ Uh, sure. The other reasons are that ... that the park and, uh, the adjacent Washington
Street right -of -way are in the Ralston Creek flood plain. Um, and we also discussed the
...the possibility with the Parks and Recreation Director, who I think is still here tonight,
um, and he was not in favor of that option of redeveloping the park either. Um ... you
know it is ... it is possible and one of the, the Chauncey Garden's proposal initially did
propose developing on the park, uh, and it is possible to elevate the first floor
commercial. Also elevate the Washington Street sidewalk to meet that ... that commercial
space. Um, but because the ... the identified site, the ... the College Street and Gilbert
Street are well above the flood plain and the first floor comic... commercial can be at
grade, uh, at the College Street and Gilbert Street level. Um, we do not recommend
pursuing the park option for that reason.
Dulek/ Matt, may I just ... legally you could go with the three and ask them to give you a proposal
for the north side. But politically and policy wise, that's... that's a very, very difficult
decision.
Dobyns/ Well faced with negative alternatives, one of the things, and (mumbled) one of the
concerns I have is the shadow effect, uh, during the winter months on, uh, Trinity
Episcopal Church across the street.
Yapp/ And I think you've had some public input on that.
Dobyns/ Right, and um, I haven't seen the shadows, but I think with the taller buildings, I can't
imagine that during the winter months, that during a Sunday morning, during this time of
the year, when uh, light is an environmental influence on what's going on in a ... a, um,
faith area, I assume it would be in shadow. And I have no idea...
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Davidson/ Five of the proposals would have the church in shadows.
Dobyns/ Okay, all ... even this (several talking) Okay. All right. So we'd have to...
Davidson/ But I certainly concur that we need to do a formal shadow study for at least the
preferred developer, and you know, we can ... if it's Council's, uh, request, we can ask all
three to conduct a shadow study.
Throgmorton/ I would think we'd want to do it for all three.
Dobyns/ Well, I ... certainly during December... it's going to be a problem just because the nature
of the sun.
Davidson/ Yeah, I mean if you're going to go ahead and do it, Rick, you can (both talking)
Dobyns/ It'd be nice to know what the burden is, so...
Markus/ But the ... but the church impact, it was... you're... you're indicating that any of these
three proposals would in fact shade the church, uh, during that morning service period
that, uh, the pastor seemed to be concerned about.
Long/ I think we'll ... we'll get the shadow study to verify that. (several talking)
Davidson/ We did receive some... preliminary information (several talking)
Long/ And typically it will be different at different times of the year (several talking)
Hayek/ I mean but I know, but (several talking) sitting around playing with the shade software or
is this something we've actually done?
Davidson/ It is based on that. (laughter)
Dobyns/ You don't trust my knowledge of astronomy?
Mims/ (laughter) No! (several talking)
Hayek/ ...hanging out in front of his computer on Saturday night either! (several talking)
Markus/ But John it seems to me that you could come up with a range that suggested what the
minimum elevation would be before it did not impact. And... and then, you know, how
far the max building height is the other end of the range.
Davidson/ I think that can be determined though.
Hayek/ We can do that though.
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Davidson/ So, all right, we'll pursue the shadow study. We'll (away from mic)
Hayek/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ Could I mention one other thing about urban design kind of stuff? Um, regardless
of the height of the building, or even its location, I think the developers need to consider
much more carefully the relationship between their building and other buildings and
public spaces nearby. Uh, Chauncey Swan Park, for example, the ... the building itself
helps shape the public space there and that park has an opportunity to be a dramatically
enhanced community space, public space, for the people of this city, and so if...if the
design... designers of these buildings could really look carefully at the relationships
between their buildings and the design of their buildings and so on and the nearby
buildings, Chauncey Swan Park, really think that through a little bit more.
Davidson/ (mumbled) summarize that (mumbled)
Hayek/ Yeah, but ... let me ... throw out a caveat here though, I mean, we ... we've got this broad,
uh, category called (mumbled) high quality architectural urban design, and then under it
we're starting to add more and more components and frankly many and perhaps all of
those are ultimately subjective.
Champion/ Totally!
Hayek/ ...idea of high quality versus what's yours, etc., and I mean I think staff can only do so
much in terms of embedding that information or those ... those questions into a matrix. At
the end of the day it comes to us and we have to decide do we think it hits on those things
or not, or how would we as individuals rate them.
Champion/ I think we have to be careful that we don't try to design everything.
Mims/ Their building.
Champion/ I mean, that's... that...
Hayek/ You raise good points, Jim. I'm must...
Champion/ Yeah.
Hayek/ ...how we get from those points into something we can digest and work with.
Yapp/ Yeah, there are items that are measurable, square footage of office space, for example.
There are other things that are not necessarily measurable, such as quality urban design,
but we can attempt to provide information on (mumbled)
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Throgmorton/ Moreover just to spin this just a little bit, uh, I wasn't saying that developers `must
do' exactly what I would prefer, but if... if we tell them we want them to think carefully
about their relationship between their building and the nearby buildings and public
spaces, that's a little bit of a nice challenge for the designers, and they will apply their
skills to it and come up with their own...
Davidson/ ....appropriate. I mean the building shouldn't be a piece of sculpture (several talking)
Champion/ Oh I disagree! (laughter) I would like to see a giant sculpture there!
Hayek/ Let's, uh, give this ten more minutes, um...
Davidson/ By the way, what we will do is we will, John and I and Raquel will take our notes,
we'll summarize this in a memo to you, and you'll have a chance at a work session (both
talking)
Hayek/ Let's give this ten more minutes. We forgot ... I ... I forgot to do appointments, which
should take us about 60 or 120 seconds, I think, uh, but we need to do that before the
meeting.
Davidson/ Any... any final comments about the process?
Throgmorton/ I could emphasize the (mumbled) uh, more ... I think we got an email from Martha
Norbeck concerning LEED certification and about, uh, how it would ... I think she was
encouraging us to kind of strive for a high level of LEED certification cause it's so easy
to get a low level certification, uh, and especially since buildings are ... new buildings are
so important for energy use in this ... in this country, and in our city we have a real
opportunity to send a strong signal to the building community about what we really value
here.
Mims/ The only comment I would make about that is, I ... was talking actually not too long ago to
an architect and it had nothing to do with any of these projects, and they were
commenting about having just been to some national or maybe even international people
were there on LEED certification and they talked about how this has become kind of the
thing to do that cost a heck of a lot of money that you can get a lot of those same
sustainability, energy efficiencies without going for the certification, and it can be just as
good but a whole lot cheaper, so I ... I think we have to be open minded in terms of what
they come back with, in terms of their sustainability issues, um, and... and features versus
hanging our hat simply on LEED certification.
Dobyns/ I agree. I think there is a day when we really won't need LEED as much anymore
because that sort of building will evolve and become more common place. I mean
definitely it's something we needed as that type of building was nascent, but at some
point I agree. I don't ... I'm not sure what ... I'm not sure this is that time though.
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Mims / Right, and I mean I agree with being concerned about the sustainability of the building.
That's, I have no problem with taking that into consideration, but I don't think we have to
say, oh it has to be LEED. Let's look at what they're really talking about doing versus
going for a designation that may cost them tens or thousands of dollars more just to get
that piece of paper.
Dobyns/ Does having LEED designation sort of keep your feet to the fire... anymore? Or
(mumbled) evolved beyond that?
Davidson/ (away from mic) ... characterized it very accurately (mumbled) You know, the city is
already contributing to LEED certification because we have a bus route. It's in a
downtown location and we have a bus route that goes by the site. You get points (several
talking)
Hayek/ Is LEED the only determinant of sustainability?
Davidson/ No, there are other determinants. We'll flush that out as well.
Dobyns/ So it can be LEED -like but not necessarily (laughter)
Mims/ There you go! (laughter)
Markus/ And sometimes you know the difference between those different levels, you know, you
spend a disproportionate amount of money to achieve that level, but when you're talking
about this kind of project, you have to keep in mind that that creating part of the gap issue
too. So ... if you get 90% of the benefit, uh, and the remaining 10% costs you another
50 %, does that make sense to do that?
Dobyns/ (several talking) ...name brand.
Hayek/ Did ... uh, Raquel's point, uh, toward the end about ... about experience in financial
strength and contributed equity, are those things you intend to put into the matrix already
or do we need to discuss them?
Favela/ Well, um, we really can't determine the amount of equity that would be reasonable for
them to invest until the programming for the building is final. So in the sequence of
events, we just sort of need to hit the ... what gets us (mumbled) project cost which means
the programming for the building needs to be final, and then we can sort of based on
some industry standards, figure out what's the maximum amount of private debt they can
attract, and then back into what's a reasonable amount of equity based on what the
project cash flows will be.
Hayek/ What about financial strength? I think your third point was experience.
Favela/ Their financial strength, um, and this might get a little touchy with the developers, but
ordinarily when we underwrite a developer, we ask for three years financial statements.
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So balance sheets, financial statements, so we can take a look at their financial
wherewithal to actually complete the project.
Hayek/ But not if the ... not this next stage.
Favela/ That's right.
Hayek/ That leaves, I guess, the third point that I saw from your thing — experience.
Favela/ Yes. So on experience we can definitely do some more due diligence on the three that
you narrow down and look at some of their most recent comparable projects, and speak to
the folks that were involved in that project ... from the, uh ... municipality.
Davidson/ But I will ... I will emphasize what Raquel alluded to, and that is that there will be
resistance to disclosing that information.
Hayek/ But we're not at that point yet.
Davidson/ No. You're not.
Hayek/ Okay, well I ... unless there's more, I think we've... we've...
Markus/ Matt, could you just summarize for the staff what your expectation is and when.
Hayek/ Yeah, do the things we all talked about (laughter) See you in January!
Markus/ With a little more specificity than that!
Davidson/ We are assuming that you're going to be busy with the budget in January. We will
attempt to turn around things as quickly as possible, but uh, let us get back to you on
schedule and ... and...
Markus/ But, Jeff, let's ... let's be clear. If I heard correctly, you're asking for us to develop a
decision matrix that we bring back to you that you can evaluate to determine if that's
acceptable for you then to create the ranking that you're going to go through to select the
rank of the three that you've selected. Is that what I heard?
Mims/ I think so.
Hayek/ Yes. Now the question becomes can we ... can we get this before January 8th, and at the
January 8th meeting can we coalesce around that matrix and then make some decisions.
Yapp/ And this is just what elements are included in the matrix? Or the matrix filled out?
Hayek/ No we would ... we would...
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Yapp/ Fill it out.
Hayek/ We're not ... I don't think we're asking for staff recommendations. We're talk ... we're
asking for the matrix itself.
Yapp/ Okay.
Hayek/ A ... a means to help us walk through these...
Davidson/Filled with the information from the three developers.
Hayek/ Oh, yeah, yeah, I thought (mumbled)
Yapp/ Right.
Markus/ So the matrix would be developed. It would be brought back to the ... the next work
session in January. The Council would review that. Determine if that's what they find
acceptable, the waiting, the, you know, the points that they have to choose from, and
make a decision on that matrix. And if in fact they ... they get to that point with the
matrix, then they have to decide are they going to actually do the rating that evening?
They want to select a separate night to do that? Do they want to add something else to
the matrix in the process? (several talking) We need to come back with a ... with a model
for them...
Davidson/ (away from mic) ... back to you first.
Markus/ Yes.
Davidson/ ...have you bless that, and then basically we'll populate it.
Hayek/ Should we ... have an agenda item ... (several talking) event we can make a decision, we
go forward, and if we can't, we just defer.
Karr/ Both on the formal and the work session.
Mims/ It needs to be populated when we see it.
Davidson/ You want it populated when you receive it.
Hayek/ Yeah, yeah.
Davidson/ Okay, well, you understand that's not totally in our hands then. It depends on how
quickly we can get the information. So...
Hayek/ Understood!
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Davidson/ Okay.
Markus / And the other part of what I heard the Council say is a direction to those three to take a
look at their numbers and to refine their numbers if that's within their, uh, ability to do
SO.
Mims/ Well and I would...
Hayek/ It's an invitation. It's not ... we don't have anything to point to specifically, um, and they
may very well say nothing has changed.
Yapp/ It's an opportunity.
Mims/ Well, and would certainly encourage if there's representatives of all of them here, I think
they heard some of our discussion about things that we value, um, some by individual
Councilors, I think some more by ... by maybe a majority, and you know, to ... to give some
thought to those as they do, you know, refine their proposals and sharpen their pencils in
terms of how that might impact our selection of our preferred developer.
Hayek/ Okay. Do you need further direction, uh, you got...
Mims/ Clear as mud?
Council Appointments:
Hayek/ Thank you (several talking) Appreciate it! Look forward to working with you! Okay,
uh, let me just take up the appointments. Um ... three different...
Karr/ You want Michelle back?
Hayek/ I'm sorry?
Karr/ Michelle back.
Hayek/ Oh, yeah!
Champion/ She probably went home! (laughs)
Dobyns/ So, Marian, the Public Art Advisory, we're now past, one day past the three- month...
Karr/ Yes!
Dobyns/ So we're freed of the gender requirement.
Karr/ That's correct!
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Dobyns/ And so Miss Bodkin Bryk can be moved forward.
Hayek/ All right. So we'll take up Public Art first. Uh, is, uh ... is there support for Tam Bryk?
Champion/ Yes.
Dickens/ Yes.
Hayek/ Okay. Uh, Board of Appeals, I think we have a decision on that. Um ... we're past the
gender requirement. That expired yesterday (several talking)
Karr/ I'm sorry!
Hayek/ On Board of Appeals, I believe the ... the gender requirement expired yesterday so we `re
free to appoint.
Karr/ Yes.
Hayek/ We have John Roffinan and Ben Anderson as the applicants.
Dickens/ I think if John wants to serve again, his experience is extremely valuable.
Champion/ How long has he been on?
Dickens/ Five terms (several talking)
Champion/ Five terms? (laughs) Well usually we like to appoint somebody else but I don't
know, if somebody's that durable I'm tempted to put `em back on. (laughs)
Mims/ Well, and fear not the other individual's lived in the community for eight months.
Champion/ Right.
Mims/ I'd like to see people here a little bit longer.
Champion/ Especially on that commission.
Dobyns/ Yeah, I...
Mims/ Okay.
Dobyns/ At the risk of irritating Connie, I think longevity might be a (laughter) (several talking)
Hayek/ You don't want to confront her (laughter) So ... Roffman. All right. Uh, and then on
Parks and Rec.
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Champion/ Oh...
Hayek/ Two vacancies.
Mims/ Somebody has been on it. Let me get ... down there.
Karr/ We have a requirement, one female, one none so.
Dobyns/ And Maggie would just reappoint her for the female. The other fellow was only ... he's
only been in town for like six weeks.
Karr/ I'm sorry. I can't ... I can't hear you!
Hayek/ Hold on!
Dobyns/ Uh...
Hayek/ So Maggie Elliott for the first.
Dobyns/ Maggie Elliott for the first, but for the, uh, the male appointment is that I would
recommend not going with the person (several talking)
Champion/ ...rehire, readvertise?
Dobyns/ I ... I checked in with Mike Moran about just the, cause the other two seemed very
similar, very earnest but trying to get a sense of the makeup and they have ... they don't
have a small business owner, um, in the group, but they do have a lawyer, so unless
there's an issue, I think there's a slight nod from my perspective to the person who's a
small business owner. (several talking) It's just a small nod. (several talking)
Dickens/ Alex Taylor is the (several talking)
Hayek/ People supportive of Alex Taylor?
Champion/ Yes!
Hayek/ (several talking) Okay. So we'll do Maggie Elliott and Alex Taylor, and we'll need a
motion on those when we get to that point. Okay. All right, thanks guys. We'll disband
and start up at 7:00!
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