HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-08-20 TranscriptionPage I
ITEM 2d(1) APPOINTMENT OF FIRE CHIEF - APPROVING JOHN GRIER AS FIRE
CHIEF.
Hayek: Before we pass on to Item 3 we have a special swearing in ceremony that our City
Clerk coordinated. (several talking and laughing) We're back to blocking the fire
escape there if you want but... (laughter)
Karr: (swears in Fire Chief Grier) (applause) Chief Grier's badge and five crossed
trumpets will be placed on his uniform for the first time by his children. So I'd
like to ask Greg and Tanner forward (mumbled) for the pinning of the trumpets.
The use of speaking trumpets as communication devices in the Fire Service dates
back to the 1700s when they were used to call cadence to keep the men on the
hand pumpers in time on the noisy fireground. Chief officers used them for
overall command at the scene of working fires. While the speaking trumpets are
no longer used as a tool of the modern firefighter, they remain an insignia of rank
and part of the uniforms of the Iowa City Fire Department to this day with five
crossed gold trumpets signifying the chief of the department. (applause) Lauren
and Taler will now pin (on) his badge. (applause) (mumbled) some other
introductions.
Grier: If I could ... if I can have just a minute.
Hayek: Absolutely!
Grier: I know you have a busy meeting.
Hayek: This is your night!
Grier: Okay! Oh, that being the case ... (laughter and several talking) They assured me
you wouldn't tackle me so (laughter) Uh, yeah, thank you! I'm glad you're all
here. Uh, I'm proud, excited... little nervous, but just, uh, let you know who's
here. I have my mom and dad, Jack and Joanne; two of my sisters, Margo and
Paula; my brother Greg and my brother Bill; my sister Jamie's in Kansas City.
She assures me she's here in spirit, so ... and then, uh ... my grandson, somewhere.
I think he left! He was overwhelmed. No, there he is! He's hiding! And then
my ... my niece and nephew, or nieces, and then my sister -in -law and our friend
Carrie's here too so ... it'll be really short but, uh, City Manager Markus, City
Council, Mayor, thanks for ... having the confidence in my to do this job. I know
that I can do it and I know I can do it well, and I won't let you down, I promise
that! The Fire Department is A+ organization. Had a... great foundation laid by
the previous administration so ... I can probably pretty much just come in and hang
out for a little bit (laughter). I promise I won't, but I ... I probably could, but ... uh,
every day the men and women of the Iowa City Fire Department go out and take
care of your loved ones. (pause) This isn't the first time Neurenberg's saw me
cry so... (laughter) Uh, but I'm eager to forge ahead. To the community I pledge
that we will continue to do this every day. In and out, every call, every time.
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formal meeting of August 20, 2013.
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That's one of Andy's sayings. And last and certainly not least I do want to thank
Chief Rocca. (pause) Sorry! For your leadership, mentorship, and friendship.
I'd like to say that I wasn't ready for you to retire, but that would be somewhat of
a lie. (laughter) I wanted you to stay as long as you wanted to, but ... I really
wanted your job! (laughter) You certainly laid the foundation for us and we will
build upon that and continue our success, so ... again, thanks for, uh, everybody
coming. I'm truly honored to be your Fire Chief and ... let's get to work!
(laughter and applause)
Hayek: Well and, Chief Grier, uh, before we move on, I just want to, on behalf of the
Council, uh, congratulate you. We don't have to welcome you to the Department
or the community because you've been part of both for so long, uh, and uh ... uh, I
know we're really pleased with the outcome of the ... of the search process and a
great decision was made, and as we heard, if you could hear the sirens as we
started this process, the ... the Department was responding to a call just as we
started this meeting and ... I think it's a reminder to the co ... the Council and to
staff and to the community just how important, uh, our high - quality fire service is
in Iowa City. Um, we are marked by professionalism, and I think the great thing
about tonight is ... is that we're seeing, uh, the baton pass from one strong leader to
another, and we congratulate you and we're glad to have you on board!
Grier: Thank you very much!
Hayek: Thanks. (applause)
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ITEM 3. COMMUNITY COMMENT (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
Hayek: This is the opportunity at each City Council meeting for members of the public to
address the City Council, uh, on issues that are not on the agenda. So, uh, if
there's something that's no on tonight's agenda that you'd like to bring to our
attention, we invite you to step forward. We ask that you sign in, uh, and also
verbally give us your name and to limit your comments to, uh, five minutes or
less!
Gravitt: My name's Mary Gravitt, and I'm here again about quality of life matters here in
Iowa City. I see that the, uh, the buses have, uh, new fare boxes. The problem
with the fare boxes is that the bell ... the bells are too high a decibel, so that it'll
affect people's ears, especially it can bring on a epileptic attack, because of the
high tone of the bells. So I hope that somebody from Iowa City Transit will look
into that, and the next thing is, I live in Towncrest, and uh, I live ... my apartment
faces the Town and Campus apartment, and I found out that the problem with the
Town and Campus is not the residents that live there, it's the owners. Town and
Campus now has three owners who will not back up the manager. That one
female manager and one part-time guard that only watches Arthur Street, when
the complex stretches almost three blocks. So ... and since the owners won't
cooperate with the manager, what can be done? And because it's ... and two it's
the visitors that visit there that won't keep their music inside their car, but I find
that ... that's through the City. It's your music! Keep your music in your car as
far as I'm concerned, and I was here last time complaining about the cars going
down Madison. And then the cars are still going down there! So there should be
something done about that, and I'm just waiting for the accident that's going to
happen there. And, uh, I found out... that... we have problems here in the city.
The main problem that I found with the city is that the laws we have on the books
aren't enforced! Policemen don't walk the block. If you're gonna have a city,
you cannot have bouswa city on the cheap, and a city, a real city, policemen walk
the beat and that cuts down on a lot of problems. But I am concerned with Town
and Campus for the reputation that it gets. And for how the problems that their,
uh ... just annoying problems, where you have to call the police but it's better to
call the police than stop the action before it builds onto something else. So, um,
and then my final complaint is about SEATS. I still say that I% surcharge that's
on the utility bill, I found out is only 23 -cents on my bill, should be put to make
up the SEATS shortfall, and uh ... that's the only complaints I have tonight, but
I'm sure I'll have many more to come up. Thank you. (laughter)
Hayek: And we look forward to that, Mary! Thank you.
Clark: Good evening, Council. Sarah Clark. I'm here representing the, uh, Northside
Neighborhood Association and just wanted to give you an update on, uh, some of
the PIN grant funds that you gave, uh, that were awarded to our neighborhood, uh,
for this fiscal year. You'll be glad to know that we've spent that money (laughs)
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so, and we did it, uh, over the past week. Uh, I'd like to thank the, uh, Recreation
and Parks Department. They built a lovely tool locker which has been, uh,
doubling as a bench in the park. I've seen lots of people using that. So we've
been able to store the water houses, which we now need since of course we waited
to plant when there was no rain coming, um, and this past weekend we had
neighbors from the Northside. We also picked up a Westside person, and uh, a
couple of folks from Jefferson Street and someone from Goosetown showed up
and helped us plant, uh, 60 additional perennials that we put them primarily
around the, um... gazebo or the pavilion area. So we will have, um, and we have
been watering them. They've already been watered three times so ... um, they
should be looking gorgeous next year. So ... um ... please stop by the park. Thanks
very much!
Hayek: Thank you.
Lynch: Hello, my name is, uh, Chris Lynch and I'm running for School Board this year. I
just wanted to drop by and quickly introduce myself. I've got two kids in the
District, um, both going to West next year. My daughter's a junior and my son'll
be a freshman. Um, my ... my wife is a paraeducator at Borlaug Elementary. I
work at, uh, Proctor and Gamble in town. I've had the privilege of working at
both of our sites, uh, in southeast Iowa City. I'm currently at the Oral Care site,
which is right across from Sycamore Mall. I've got 21 years basically... mostly in
operations management, supply chain management, little bit of engineering. I'm
an engineer by background. I've been involved with the schools for the last
decade or so, most recently, uh, I was a leader in the One District Yes Campaign
to help get the revenue purpose statement passed, which as you know was key for
all of our kids to move our facilities and other things forward. Just quickly, I've
got three goals. Um, I want our schools to be the best in Iowa and amongst the
best in the nation. I want to make sure we're meeting the needs of all of our kids,
whether they're going to college or trades or on to work. And I want everybody
in this District to be proud to say this is our District and we're moving forward
together. Four strategies, the first one's simple — I'd like to get back to basics and
focus on education. Second would be 21St century classroom, really focused on
student achievement. Third would be a highly effective board te ... team, and
fourth would be, uh, execute with excellence. As you can imagine from a,
coming from an operations background, I think I can bring some experience to
maximize the spending in our classrooms and if we're going to spend $100 to
$250 million in facilities, I think my background in capital management, project
management would be very valuable. I'm running for the kids. I think I can
make a meaningful difference to the education in this community, and uh, I'd
appreciate your support. Just want to drop by and say hello. Chris Lynch running
for School Board, and get out to vote on September I Oth. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
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Cohen: I'm Leah Cohen with Bo James downtown and I'm here just to briefly tell you
about, um, some experiences this last couple weeks with ... there was a city main
that broke downtown and so we businesses in the 100 block of Washington Street
probably were affected the most, so ... there were businesses outside of that
particular block that were affected also by it. And I thought it was important to
kind of have the Council hear, um, what we deal with and what we did deal with
with all of that. Um, I was kind of ..informally elected to come and tell you
(laughs) a little bit about it but first and foremost I want to say that, um, Jim
Protaskey, I believe, who is with the Engineering Department did a tremendous
job for the City. He was sent down ... I don't know that he was supposed to be the
one that communicated with us, but he did a wonderful job on communicating
with all of us when things were going on, how they were going on, what would be
delayed, how; um, just on a day -to -day basis he talked to all of us businesses. I
know at least in the 100 block and I don't know how much further. So, he was a
great representative that, um, I certainly hadn't known before outside of just
seeing him. So I think that was ... very good for the City to have that. Um, I also
wanted to kind of point out, um, the devastation that can happen to a block of
small businesses for an entire week is really what it was. The street, of course,
had to be, um, closed off. The sidewalks were closed off at various times
and ... and probably more than anything the noise and the air quality was so
horrible you couldn't even be on that block half the time for that week, but I think
it's important for the ... the Council to know how all those businesses there were
affected, um, not just by, you know, muddy water in their basement or
contaminated water and the cleanup and all those sorts of things, but affected as
small businesses losing so much business in a week's period of time, because it
was basically a deserted street, just because of everything that went on during that
week. So we had a lot of businesses that suffered tremendous losses through that
and um, we had talked about a few things, um, that ... that could help us as far as
the City are concerned, and I also talked to other businesses. As a matter of fact
we've had so much construction downtown this summer — that can be good and it
can be bad, but urn ... it shows the growth of our city and the tremendous ... I know
I... Bo James benefitted. I hope you all can come and see the brick front of my
building and new renovated sign up and it looks wonderful, but we don't think
about sometimes the businesses that are affected around that from any type of
construction that goes on, and we had talked about a few things that would be
helpful that the City could do in regards to that, um, just to give you an example.
We talked about you know like an hour and a half period of lunch hour where
University people come downtown, people run down to grab something to eat.
They run down to grab, you know, a dress for tomorrow night or whatever it may
be, businesses tend to pick up during that period of time. Um, with all the noise
and everything going on in the air, we talked about, you know, why can't we just
kind of change timing on some of that a little bit, if...if contractors are made
aware of that. That was one thing that we talked about. Um, and I think it would
be good if either through the, um, new Downtown District Board or just directly
with the City, kind of looking at how, um, you know street closures, what could
help us in regards to some of those things that happen, and construction, so that
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maybe your small businesses won't be quite as affected sometime by some of
those things that go on. So I just wanted to say that and again, the City did a
wonderful job of having this person there, so we're at least aware. We might not
liked what we heard (laughs) but we were aware of what was going on. So just to
kind of encourage you that, um, with future major constructions on whatever
street it may be, you know, maybe there's a way that we can help to ... um, have a
little less disruption for some things that happen during busier times of the day.
Thank you!
Hayek: Thank you, Leah! Anyone else during community comment? (mumbled)
Knight: Uh, hey, it's turned on! All right! Um, hi everybody! I've been up here many
times. I know you guys are looking for a few it ... ideas to, uh, make the city
better, and I have a few. I didn't never got a card so ... I just wanted to (both
talking)
Hayek: Roger, can you give us your full name?
Knight: Oh, yeah! Sorry bout that! Yeah! Um, my name is Roger Knight, Jr. Um, a few
ideas. I think we need to adopt the noise ordinance from like Dubuque, where
screaming mufflers on motorcycles, radios in cars are so loud that I can hear you
and you're further away than a fire truck, you know, things like that are ... enough
is enough. And we need to quiet the bars. You know, there's been so many...
things that have happened that ... we tend ... no, the City Council seems to be very
weak, very weak when it comes to the bars. Like the 18, or the 21 and only
ordinance. I'm sorry. I ... last time I checked you have to be 21 to drink in this
country. You know, if they want to ... do something then ... you know, I don't
know. That's not our problem. You're making money off of, you know, 18, 19,
20 -year -olds drinking and I don't want to hear it. That's the truth. And another
issue, cause I've talked a couple of times about that, um ... the sidewalks
downtown. They have potholes in `em and they're a sidewalk! You know? I'm
in a wheelchair, dodging these potholes. Not very effective ever. And I'd just
like to see, you know, I'm not asking to pave a new sidewalk. That would really
hurt some of these businesses, but you know, maybe a patch or something. I've
seen a few of `em done, can't we do a few more? I don't know how much money
that would cause or trouble, but I'm sure you guys could come up with something
to help out with that issue. And you know... somebody brought up about the
Police Department. Never really enforces what we got anyway for laws. I've
seen too much leniency and we're sittin' here screamin' `Help,' and ... I don't
know if they're afraid to get their hands dirty. I don't know, but I know you
know, military men (mumbled) looking for help. I'm sure we can get some
Marine MPs if that's what we need to get. To go in and get some of these
problems fixed. You know, they've been trained to run to the bullets. I don't
know — that sounds like a good cop to me! You know, not necessary you want to
talk to `em but that's another issue there. But that's a few little ideas I've had
so ... thank you and ... have a good rest of the meeting! (laughs)
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Hayek: Thank you. Appreciate it!
Knight: You bet!
Pearce: Anybody else? Okay. Evening, Council! Um, my name is Matthew Pearce. I
live at, uh, 736 Michael Street, #8, over on the southwest, over there just across
the river. So, yeah, uh, it's kind of amazing actually I'm standing here talking to
you tonight, um, actually yesterday at 2:45 in the afternoon I was riding my bike,
as I love to do, um, I also am a student here at the University in the Urban and
Regional Planning Masters Program. I have an emphasis in transportation, and I
tell you that because I'm also an avid biker and believe in alternatives to the
automobile, uh, as a form of transportation. So I was riding my bike yesterday
and uh, coming off of...comer of Benton and Riverside. There's that bike,
wonderful bike trail that comes right up to that corner. I was crossing, parallel
with traffic going south and I was struck by a car. So ... uh, I haven't sustained
any serious damage. I did have a pretty good headache. Um, and I did get a little
bit of, uh, road red ... road rash. Not road rage! Uh, the woman who did hit me,
uh, was very apologetic. We exchanged information and her insurance will buy
me a new bike, I hope! Um. ... and I was, I had actually... after I got struck, I... she
took me home, graciously, and um, after that I went to HyVee and I actually had
to drive my car, of course, cause I didn't have a bike anymore, and um, I drove
through that intersection, coming, uh, going west on Benton and um, there is an
enormous light, what is it? Electrical pole, I mean, it's like huge. It's like a tree.
And a lot of times bikers will hide behind that. We're sitting at the corner and the
people turning left wanting to go north on Riverside, they don't see the bikers,
and so this is what happens to me. The woman was looking left, I was over here,
she turned right, and there I was. And ... um ... so I'm ... I'm wondering there is
plenty of room for signage at that particular intersection, but it's not just me! I
know that people get hit by bikes, people ... there are bike /car collisions many
places, and there are at this time of year, I mean, the students are coming back and
a lot of people, you know, they don't all have cars, and um, I mean, I've
sometimes counted, even in the last week, there are more bikes in that intersection
than cars. Um, so I'm wondering how ... if we can invest in a little bit of signage
and um, perhaps finding locations where bikes and cars intersect often, and trying
to alert drivers that you need to look out for bikes, and I was, you know, looking
out for cars too. She was at a stop. So I mean maybe I'm completely at fault, but
um ... you know. So I'm just ... I just want to say that, you know, there is another
way to get around besides the car and we might need to think about how we can
protect everybody on the road, not just the cars. So ... that's all! Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you; we appreciate your comments! Anyone else? Mary, I think there's
someone else who wants to come and (unable to hear person away from mic)
Yes, if there's something you want to bring to our attention that's not on the
agenda, you can ... you can (unable to hear person away from mic) That's
probably agenda Item 8 or 9. What is it?
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Throgmorton: Nine.
Hayek: (unable to hear person away from mic) Okay, so when we get to that item, there
will be plenty of opportunity for public input, so why don't you just wait and...
wait until then.
Maas: My name is Liz Maas. I live at 620 Ronalds Street. This isn't actually the reason
I'm here tonight but I just suddenly thought of something that I've wanted to say
to you guys for a long time. (laughs) That sounds bad! (laughter) I've wanted to
tell you for a long time! (laughter) Um, when I was a pregnant mother and just
started breastfeeding, I had to go out every day and switch my car from side to
side, and if I didn't make it by 8:00 in the morning, it was the end of the world. I
wondered if we could do something nice for new mothers when they leave the
hospital and give them like a two -week pass so they don't have to get tickets on
the sides of the roads. I think that would just be a nice thing, sort of welcome that
new child into Iowa City. Um, cause I got a lot of money that I had to pay you
guys, and I was of course exhausted and looked like a raccoon. So ... those are my
comments of something good to do for citizens of Iowa City.
Hayek: Thank you, Liz. Mary, we have a huge meeting this evening. And your... (unable
to hear person away from mic) Come on up; make it quick please. You're here
every meeting, which is great, uh, but we always, uh ... need to make progress.
Gravitt: Yes, cause I ... I want Iowa City to be perfect! (laughter) Now my ... my problem
is today at the Senior Center, uh, a friend of mine, she wanted to register for a
class, and she found out that she's living outside of the city limits of Iowa City
and she lives near Paul's. So I want to know has the city been rejoined so that
Paul's, and that Walmart, is in Johnson County. Because it makes a difference
because you have to pay twice as much if you live in John ... outside of Iowa City
to go to the Iowa City Senior Center. So the new program has placed here in
Johnson County and she rides the Iowa City bus, so ... and this is the new software
that you have to argue with. So that's (mumbled) to me because I want, like I
said, I want Iowa City to be perfect! Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you! Anyone else?
Throgmorton: How ... how can we clarify that particular point?
Hayek: On the Senior Center...
Markus: We'll look into a number of these issues that were brought up.
Hayek: Yeah. Okay. Let's move on to Item 4, Planning and Zoning Matters.
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ITEM 4. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS.
ITEM 4a HIERONYMUS / KUM AND GO COMPREHENSIVE PLAN -
AMENDING THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN - SOUTHEAST DISTRICT
PLAN TO CHANGE THE LAND USE DESIGNATION FROM MULTI-
FAMILY TO COMMERCIAL FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT THE
NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE INTERSECTION OF MUSCATINE
AVENUE AND SCOTT BOULEVARD. (CPA13- 00002) [Discussion only at
formal meeting]
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Hayek: This is a public hearing which was continued from July 23. I'll, uh, open it again.
(bangs gavel) Uh, we should probably get ex parte communications if there's
anything from the last ... go around? Okay. Jeff!
Davidson: Uh, good evening, Mr. Mayor and Members of the City Council. I'm Jeff
Davidson, the Director of Planning for the City. Uh, if you don't mind I'll ... I'll
give a report for Items a and b simultaneously. One is the Comprehensive Plan,
uh, and one is the zoning. I'll cover them both and you will ... you will vote on
them separately. Uh, as the Mayor's ... the Mayor has indicated, the application is
from John Hieronymus, uh, requesting both a Comprehensive Plan amendment
and a rezoning of property located at the intersection of Muscatine Avenue and
Scott Boulevard. Uh, you see the location here, just to orient you. Uh, Scott
Boulevard, uh, American Legion Road or Mus ... Muscatine Avenue to this side,
American Leg ... Legion Road to this side. Urn ... existing residential subdivision
here. Silvercrest, uh, development here. Uh ... a property that you've been
discussing and even have on your agenda tonight at this location. Uh, Ralston
Creek, uh, Scott Park and the dog park in this area. And you see here, the, uh,
requested rezoning, uh, from single - family to multi - family in this area, uh, from
single - family to commercial in this small strip here, and from multi - family, uh, to,
uh, commercial in this area here, and one thing to clarify. The original request
from the developer was, uh, for neighborhood commercial zoning and all of your
Planning and Zoning Commission materials in your packet reflect CN -1 zoning.
That has now been modified to what you see here, Community Commercial, uh,
zoning, and we can talk about any subtleties between those two zones that you
like. (mumbled) the developer ultimately determined that, uh, CC -2, uh, would fit
what he would like to do here, uh, better. Community Commercial zone is our...
our general commercial zone. Neighborhood commercial, obviously, or smaller,
uh, oriented to, uh ... uh, neighborhoods more. Um, a ... a couple of maybe a little
bit more significant differences. Obviously the neighborhood commercial zone
speaks a lot more to, uh, pedestrian accessibility and connectivity and fitting into
the neighborhood more. Uh, also for a convenience store, which is proposed at
this location. It does require a Board of Adjustment action, uh, for the gasoline
pumps. The ... the CC -2 zone does not require that. So that is a ... a distinction
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you may want to take, uh, into consideration. Uh, the purpose of the requested
actions as mentioned is to allow a convenience store. Uh, and three four -plex
buildings to be constructed at this location. Now this location will be familiar to
you, uh, because ... um, in, uh, 2011 it was rezoned and platted. Oh, here's an
aerial, uh, view of the property, and this is the plan that you did approve, uh, in
2011 and uh, basically it had single - family lots at the back of the property. Uh,
Terrace Lane was extended. This was the sole access point from Muscatine
Avenue. There were three multi - family lots here. Uh, with ... with rear access.
Good design we felt. Uh, connectivity to the, uh, open space down here and
eventually allowing for connectivity over to the Court, uh, Hill trail, and
eventually a stubbed street here that would eventually extend, uh, back down to
Muscatine Avenue. Uh, this is the proposed plan now, and you will ... you'll see
several differences. Obviously the significant one is the commercial zoning, uh,
at the intersection. The access has now been changed to Scott Boulevard, and our
Traffic and Transportation people did take a look at that. Is ... it is an accessible
...acceptable access point. Uh, good visibility. Won't create any, uh, undue
traffic problems. Uh, also access ... uh, to Muscatine Avenue here, and this access
point in a later version that we've seen is actually located further from the
intersection down here, which is a ... a positive change in our estimation. Also did
want to call out, you'll see in these concept drawings the roundabout here, uh,
we've used the roundabout, uh, in... in these concept drawings because it has the
largest footprint that we need to accommodate. The ultimate decision on whether
or not there's a roundabout there or a signalized intersection will be yours. You
will determine that, but we did want to, uh, reflect the development plan with the
largest footprint of what the City would want to do there, and that would be the
roundabout alternative. Um ... here you see ... oh, here you see this one was put in
because it did show the access point, uh, moved out further from the intersection.
Uh ... oh, this was provided by the applicant, uh, as an example of what the
proposed convenience store, uh, would look like and so we did, uh ... uh, want to
provide that to you. Uh, at... for... for any o f your questions or for any of the
subsequent speakers that you have at your hearing, we can ... we can bring up any
of these, uh, diagrams. Uh, just a couple of things from the staff report, uh, before
you continue your hearing. Uh, mentioned the previous, uh ... uh, rezoning and
platting. Uh, so that basically that development plan it ... is the one that would be
constructed right now by right. Um ... the ... the, staff and the Planning and Zoning
Commission, uh, took a look at the existing Comprehensive Plan and the guidance
that it provides in terms of this intersection and the proposed, uh, rezoning to a
commercial use. You know, obviously the intersection of two arterial streets is
not an inappropriate place necessarily for commercial, uh, zoning, but uh, we...
it's ... it's felt that because of the existing single - family, uh, neighborhood here,
which has been in existence I think for approximately 20 years, and also the
access to commercial zoning to the north, to the south, and to the west that ... what
the Comprehensive Plan calls for as this being a multi - family, uh, residential
intersection that that is ... is guidance well taken and ... and that it was felt by... the
Planning and Zoning Commission that, uh, the proposed change to commercial
use would have too many negative impacts on the residential, uh, that the multi-
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family was a good solution because it does provide a mix of housing types in the
area, uh, and that it was a better, uh, a better solution basically for this intersection
than going to, uh, commercial zoning. Urn ... let's see, just a couple of other
highlights. Um ... the multi - family portion of the, uh, proposal that you see here,
uh, staff did not have any problems with that and the Planning and Zoning
Commission in terms of how it might be incorporated into the neighborhood
because, again, the Comprehensive Plan guidance would call for multi - family
housing and providing a mix of housing types. Uh, traffic, there were not
significant traffic implications, as I mentioned. Uh, we feel that this access point
is fine. One thing you'll note from the previous plan and rather than a stubbed
street there's a cul -de -sac here. Uh, if... if, um... if this is approved, uh, we would
prefer to see a stubbed street that would eventually extend down, uh, to provide
better connectivity to Muscatine Avenue. That ... that is just one comment we, uh,
made on the notion of a stubbed street versus a cul -de -sac. Um ... the
recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission was to deny both the
Comprehensive Plan rez ... Comprehensive Plan amendment, uh, and the rezoning.
Uh ... and there were a lot of meeting minute, uh, info ... a lot of information in the
meeting minutes that I'm sure you had a chance to review. Uh, I think that was
all I was going to cover, uh, before you continue your hearing. Is there ... are there
any com ... uh, comments or questions for me?
Hayek: Thanks, Jeff!
Davidson: Thank you!
Hayek: This is a public hearing, so ... anyone from the audience can weigh in. (several
speaking away from mic)
Hieronymus: Hello, my name is John Hieronymus. Uh, I live at 3322 Muscatine Avenue and I
am, uh, petitioning the City or asking that the City go ahead and make a change in
the Comprehensive Plan. I've been an Iowa City nearly all my life. When my
parents passed away, I was able to buy the family home from my four siblings and
live at that property now. My sister lives next door and both properties are
adjacent to the 12 acres under consideration. The family took out loans to pay the
taxes on the properties rather than to ... to sell them, so that we would have some
say in how they were developed. We are the neighbors most impacted by the use
of land, and we are in favor of this multi -use development. I expect you have
your own guidelines for amending the City Comp Plan, but to my mind the major
criteria would be is the change in the Comp Plan and the request for appropriate
zoning a reasonable request from the property owner. Is the development of the
12 acres and the commercial use of the corner in line with eastside growth and a
benefit to the city? And is the placement of a Kum and Go on the corner done in
a way to avoid creating problems for the existing neighbors? I believe that we
can demonstrate that the answer to all of these is `yes,' and therefore our family
request should be approved. Very brief history because I know you have quite a
bit of it in the packet. There was a 100 -acre farm that my bou ... that my family
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bought in the 60s, the dam of Ralston Creek, the detention area, Scott Park, and
Scott Boulevard took half of the land, and it cut off this 12 -acre piece and another
36 -acre piece. In 2010 a developer approached me about putting in a geothermal
neighborhood. We worked on it for over a year. The City staff wanted them to
put multi - family on the corner and put a sidewalk that runs all the way to Juniper
Street. We got the change in zoning and the plat ... plat approved, but the blank...
bank appros ... appraisal came in so much lower than the cost of the development
that he couldn't get a loan in order to make the ... and he couldn't get a bank to
lend him the money. In 20111 talked to another developer who thought he might
be interested, but upon doing his due diligence decided the costs were too high to
make it work. In 20121 talked to the City Manager and the City staff about
changing the design and bring in the street from Scott Boulevard to try to eng...
engineer a development that might work, and I got their okay. Shortly after that,
Kum n' Gro ... Go approached me about putting a new convenience store on the
corner. They impressed me with their LEED - certified building, the products
within the store, and agreeing to all my requests about how to put the building on
the site. That included significant buffering on all sides, lowering the base of the
building to make it less obtrusive, and moving the building down the hill away
from the intersection. Once again I've worked on this plan for over a year. By
shortening the street, not allowing ... not having to follow the contour of the
property to the west, not having to loop all the way back to the steep hill, the
grades are much better to drive on and it saves hundreds of thousands of dollars in
trucked -in dirt. These are views of the property, one towards Muscatine Avenue,
and one towards the property to the west, which is where my sister lives. We
began the, um ... okay, by making the ... the busy intersection corner commercial
instead of trying to sell residential lots, I became confident that our family could
develop this in -fill property ourselves. We began the application process with the
City staff and CN -1 zoning. We were told that the staff would not support the
zoning, but ... cause it would require a change in the City Comp Plan. They didn't
think the commercial use was needed, and they didn't see the design as
neighborhood friendly enough. We changed the application to CC -2 to better fit
the use. Each of the other major intersections with Scott Boulevard is zoned CN-
1 or CC -2. We added townhouse units to the base of the hill to buffer the single -
family homes, and I found a builder who's willing to invest their money to build
those multi - family homes. We were told again that the City staff would not
support a change in zoning for the same reasons. We had two friendly- neighbor
meetings in which a total of three people attended. We went to the Planning and
Zoning Commission and were surprised that several people we had not heard
from came to speak against it. Primarily out of fear that it might be bad for them
in some way. Nearly all of them are from the Hamp ... Hampton Court
neighborhood that's down the hill on the other side of Muscatine Avenue, and you
can see it in this ... in this picture, urn ... this is the, uh, fence. All the houses are
facing towards Hampton Court and away from Muscatine Avenue. We've made
some, uh ... um ... I have some pictures also that I took of the, uh, from the edge of
the street. The .... urn ... north edge of Muscatine Avenue, towards the
neighborhood, to try to get a view of the houses that are over there. Uh, this was
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the best view I could get of 1152 and a portion of 1146. Uh, then there is the, uh,
looking at the area behind 1152. Here are views of 1158 and 1164. Uh, you can
see the, uh ... oops. You can see the one house here, uh, you can see the roof of
this house over here, and uh... other than that it's pretty hard to see anything. Um
...this was actually taken from 9 -feet in the air. I got up on a ladder on the side of
the street and took the picture because my understanding is the top of the canopy
is going to be nine -feet above the street. Then this is a view between 1164 and
1170, once you get down to that point you can see there's a sidewalk that goes up
across from my sister's driveway, but it's ... the elevation is such that it ... we're
already well down the hill. We've made some impri ... improvements to the
design to make it even more friendly to cyclists, pedestrians, and people wanting
to picnic on -site instead of at Scott Park. We tried to address the staff concerns
and those of the neighbors. You should also note the Hieronymus family believes
that having a convenience store of this caliber will be a great asset to the east side
of Iowa City, and a model for what convenience stores should be like in the
future. We also believe that it'll make our development better and more sellable.
We are so sure that we're willing to invest nearly $2 million in this development
and when it's built it should add between $10 and $12 million to the City's
assessed valuation. We have a future development of 34 acres just down the
street, and would not put it at risk if we thought it was a bad idea to have a
convenience store here. Everyone moving into the area in the future will know...
will knowingly chose to move into an area that includes a convenience store. I
have with me three other people who would like to provide you with some more
information and show you why the change is needed and best for Iowa City. And
then of course if you have any other questions for me, I'd be happy to respond.
Hayek: Thank you.
Jones: Hi there! Colby Jones, um, with Kum and Go convenience stores, 6400 W. Town
Parkway, West Des Moines, IA 50266. Mayor, Council Members, thank you all
for your time tonight. Appreciate you being here. Um, I just want to tell you a
little bit about Kum and Go. Um, we are a family -owned company. We started in
1959 in Hampton, Iowa. We are now headquartered in West Des Moines, Iowa.
We have 440 locations across 11 states. Um ... we, uh, we build all our stores to
be LEED - certified. Um, in fact, we're in the LEED - volume program. If you
don't know what that is, when we go and we build a new store, instead of waiting
for all the LEED checklist to go through and get approved, we're automatically
approved. Um, we're actually the only convenience store in the United States
that's in the LEED - volume program. Um, I understand that your city is very into
sustainability, as is our company. Um, the new store that, uh, we have put
together is just under 5,000 square feet. With that new store, we have a kitchen
that we make fresh food out of. Um, we do everything from grilled chicken,
Greek yogurt, uh, this is not your typical convenience store that you're used to.
Um, we have done a whole new design. Our stores are very aesthetically
pleasing, and we're very excited about them. Um. ... we give back 10% of our
profits, uh, into the community every year. Um, our focus with that is youth and
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education. Um, we've given a lot of money into the Iowa City market. We do
have stores here. Again, that's a lot older assets. Um, we do have some
pictures... of what our new design looks like. Um, it would be a four -sided brick
building, and one thing that we have is we have a lot of windows out front. Uh,
also our cash register is now in the middle of the store. It provides our associate
with a 360- degree view of the store, as well as the parking lot, uh, which helps out
a lot in theft matters and any issues that we should have there. Um, we'd be
making in this site over a $4 million investment. Uh, just with associates we'd
have between 15 to 20 jobs, uh, not counting all the construction jobs that we
would create from this development. When ... I go out, I do all the site selection
for Kum and Go. I look at a lot of different sites. I look at a lot of different areas.
Um, we have also invested in very expensive modeling software. So when we go
into a site, we do a very strong and deep needs analysis on each site to see if it's
something that works for our company and would be good for our convenience
store. When we looked at this corner, it showed a strong need in this area for a
convenience store. Not only for the inside sales and providing the neighbors with
places to buy things that they would need from a market, but also from a fueling
standpoint. Um, the other thing that I wanted to speak about before handing it
over tonight was lighting. Um, again being a LEED - certified store we have LED
lighting, uh ... all of our lighting that we do, we have ... we can do zero lot line
foot - candles with, so we contain all our lighting on site. Now, we are in some
markets where we're on very busy commercial corners, and some of those
markets we do kind of what to light it up a little bit more, and so we will spill onto
the street a little bit. Again, those are busy commercial corridors. This is not
what we're doing here. Um, on a site like this we have downcast lighting that we
can use. So that it would contain all that light on the site if we so chose.
Knowing that we do have neighbors across the street on Hampton Court, uh, that
is something that we could provide here to make sure that we do trap all that
lighting on site ... and these were just a few pictures that we had of...some lighting
that we have at night. Um ... this is, this site, um, again would be a big investment
for us. Uh, this is not a truck stop. We do offer diesel. It's more for a F -350, um,
and we can also control the operations of trucks coming into our sites to do fuel
drops, and for our vendors coming in with their, uh, to unload what they have.
So, if there's not any more questions for me.
Hayek: Any questions for the representative?
Jones: Thank you for your time.
Hayek: Thank you!
Beckler: Good evening, my name's Kelly Beckler. I'm with, uh, MMS Consultants, uh,
1917 S. Gilbert Street. Uh ... I'm the project engineer for this site and I just want
to quickly go through some of the items that we're talking about for this particular
site. Urn ... it's a 3 -acre site and the concept that we have here, uh, shows 34
parking stalls. I do have a pointer here. Um ... of course... apologize! It's not
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working! (laughter) Um ... this is the building we're talking about, the 5,000 -
square foot building. The fuel canopy will be here. Uh, I guess just to get
oriented a little bit. We've been talking about this site, so I apologize for not
doing that first. Uh, Scott Boulevard is ... is here, uh, and Muscatine here to the
south. Uh, the townhomes that were discussed earlier would be here, and the
Hieronymus property is ... here. Um ... as I mentioned earlier, it's a 3 -acre site.
We've got, uh, 34 parking stalls proposed, and this is just the first concept. Um...
the detention's going to be provided on site with a basin here and then we've also,
this concept shows ... uh, several trees around the perimeter and screening as
required by the City. One of the items that, uh, we've added, uh, to promote
walkability on the site was this picnic el ... area right here that John mentioned
early... earlier. (clears throat) We've got, uh, a sidewalk running from ... from
north to south across the site in order to encourage and promote, uh, ped...
pedestrian use of that. This is just a blow up of...of that area, uh, this would be
the shelter itself, which would have some seating in it, uh, with sidewalk, a
perimeter around it, um ... this represents retaining walls with significant
landscaping around it, as well, and uh, we're even showing a bike rack here so
that people could bike to that location and uh, keep their bikes there. This is a
cross section across the shi ... site to show, uh, how the ... the building and the
canopy would be elevation -wise, uh, in relation to the ... to the neighbors to the
south. Um, this of course is just a rough proximation, urn ... maybe rough isn't the
right word, but an approximation based on aerial topo that we have at this point.
Um ... right now the house, and I can't read these numbers, but the house right
here I believe is at 650 or 755 elevation. The right -of -way is roughly 4 % foot
above that house, and as you can see here, there's quite a few mature trees, uh,
arbor vitae shrubs in quite a few locations, as well as a 6 -foot tall fence. The
Kum and Go site would be providing right -of -way trees and screening as required
by the City. Due to the elevation across the site, the elevation change across the
site, there's about 20 -foot of change from ... from north to south on it, and uh,
that's gonna force us to lower the building, as John mentioned, uh, below the
build, uh, below, uh, Muscatine Avenue. As we have it shown here, it's about a
foot lower than ... the floor of this building is about a foot lower than the ... the
Hampton neighborhood. (clears throat) And the canopy is about, uh, 17 Meet
tall. And the last slide I have here just quickly shows, uh ... distances from...
several of the neighbors, just approximate distances to the center of the store.
Um ... the center of the store's going to be roughly 309 feet from this closest
neighbor at...at the south, uh, 355 from this home here, and then 150 from...
from uh, Mrs. Hieronymus' house. So ... about a football field. Uh, that's all I
have. Is there any questions regarded to the details of this site?
Dickens: Is there a reason for a 17 -foot canopy? Is that a standard or is it something that
can be lowered?
Beckler: That's a question that I'd have to defer to Colby on. It ... that's roughly about the
same height as the building. And 17 foot would be to the top of it.
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Hayek: Any other questions? Okay, thank you. (unable to hear person away from mic)
Beckler: Right. As John mentioned the top of the canopy would be about 9 -feet above the,
uh, the street.
Champion: Would you repeat that please?
Beckler: The ... the top of the canopy with all the different elevation changes. The top of
the building and the top of .. of .. of the canopy would be roughly 9 -feet above the
street... because of the slope of the site. Thank you.
Hayek: Okay, thank you!
Pugh: Good evening, uh, City Councilors. My name is Mike Pugh. I'm here as a...
representing, uh, Kum and Go. Um ... uh, who is planning to build a store at the
site and I appreciate your time on this. This is ... this is really not an easy one.
Um... this is a ... this is a rezoning request that really, uh, necessitates amending
the Comprehensive Plan. Um, and I think that's okay. Um, you know, as a city,
the City should have the discretion, um, to based on changing circumstances, uh,
in the community, uh, to change the Comprehensive Plan to meet those, uh,
circumstances. The Comprehensive Plan, um, really acts as a ... as a guideline, uh,
as sort of a road map that's developed at a certain point in time, um ... that the City
can use as ... as somewhat of a ... somewhat of a, uh, a road map. Um ... but that
doesn't mean, and I think just as importantly, um, that over time as circumstances
changes, it's important to take a look at that and make adjustments to that as
necessary, uh, to accommodate different things that are happening in the city at
large, or in a particular, uh, neighborhood. And I think the City Council
understands that. By my sort of unscientific review of the ... of the agendas, um, I
think the City has amended the Comprehensive Plan probably six or seven times
over just the last year and a half or so. One of those ... one of those amendments
involved, uh, the site at, uh, Highway 6 and ... and Broadway, um, to
accommodate the ... the Casey stores, and that site and this site have a lot of
similarities in the context of placing a convenience store, um, next to a, sort of a
residential area, and the City Council's found a way forward on that particular site
to accommodate the needs of the neighbors, uh, and ... and also, uh, provide a ... a
commercial service. And we'd ask, uh, to have ... have you have an open mind to
see if there's a way forward for us to ... to do the same thing here. Um ... one of
the things that, uh, important to note as well is... is sort of the context of this...
this, um ... this rezoning request, and also an amendment to the Comprehensive
Plan. The site itself is just a little over 3 -plus acres so in terms of amending the
Comprehensive Plan it's somewhat of a... a modest request or a modest
modification to the ... to the Plan itself, and what we do know about good planning
is that at the intersection of arterial streets, appropriate uses for those intersections
are either some sort of a high- density single - family, some sort of multi- family use
or some sort of community commercial, uh, type use. I mean, good planning sort
of dictates that. And we have seen that, um, in other areas on the east side, and if
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...you can kind of see from this diagram, this is, uh, this is a, uh, picture of Scott
Boulevard sort of going north to south, and you... if you see at the other
intersections of the arterial streets here, we have Old Towne commercial at the
corner of Scott and Rochester. There's the community commercial area at, uh,
the corner of, um... Scott and Court Street, and then down south there's also, uh, a
commercial area, um ... at Highway 6 and Scott. And so if you see there's sort of
a gap here in terms of any sort of commercial area in this particular vicinity where
the proposed site is, which is, uh, designated there by the ... by the Kum and Go
sign. This is a intersection already that generates probably ... I think 6,000 to
8,000 cars a day. Uh, as Mr. Davidson alluded to, the staff doesn't think there's
really any traffic concerns. This is a convenience store. It's meant for
convenience. It's not a destination business so it's not going to generate any sort
of new traffic. The traffic is already there, and this is a location we think in the
city that, um ... is going to continue to grow and there's going to be more traffic
there, thus giving sort of a ... uh, a rise to the need for additional, uh, additional
commercial services. So this intersection is ... is already consistent with the other,
uh, inter ... arterial street intersections, uh, on the east side that do already allow
for, uh, some commercial uses. Um ... if you look in the, uh, area, uh, where this
store is, and you can see it by that little, uh, green sign there ... I'm pleased to
report that the east side, I think, is growing. Um, we have, um, the area just
immediately across the street that the City Council has recently considered, East
Port Flats that's going to be a multi - family development and it's designated there
as future condominiums. That entire area there, southeast of this intersection,
according to the Comprehensive Plan, this is the growth area for the east side. If
you can see there, it's a large farm field. And that couldn't be more true now that
we know that the School District is going to put an elementary school out on
American Legion Road. I know one thing, that when a school is built, residential
development will follow. So it's reasonable to assume that this entire area out
there is going to grow with ... with rooftops. Um ... the urn ... one of the common
complaints I always hear about the east side, and I'm an east side resident, is that
there's no commercial services out on the east side. And so ... you know, that's
...this is one way to ... to help accommodate that. And the City's own data
supports this. There's a study that was done in connection with ... oops! In
connection with the, urn ... Towncrest, um ... redevelopment plan. (coughing) Get
to it here ... it was part of this Gallo study that was done in connection with the
Towncrest, uh, redevelopment plan and it showed something fairly interesting. It
showed that ... that for some key services, uh, gasoline, uh, supply, and food and
beverages, the demand in this area exceeds the supply. And this ... if you see there
it was highlighted. We took out of the table from the, uh, from the plan the data
that was generated in connection with that and um ... that's fairly significant, and
basically what that means is that the demand, there's leakage in the neighborhood
of people needing those things, needing food and beverage, needing gasoline,
those types of things, going to other areas of the city. So it's somewhat data -
driven, uh, that, um ... the ... the demand here, um, exceeds the ... the current
supply. The other thing that I think is important to note is that, um ... the South-
east District Plan was de ... was adopted in 2011, and one of the things that Mr.
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Page 18
Davidson and the other staff had told us is that, you know, part of that plan we
wanted to preserve certain areas for multi - family use and ... and that's... that's
certainly a, uh, a concern and this intersection would ... would accommodate that.
However, there's one thing that happened since 2011 and that is there's an area of
property right out here at the corner of ..of Court Street and Taft Avenue that
originally was zoned neighborhood commercial, and there's a piece of property
right here that after the plan was adopted, the City Council changed the zoning on
that land from ... from neighborhood commercial to multi - family development, uh,
to accommodate a condominium development, um, that uh, is called Cardigan
Park Condominiums, and that added 24 new units onto the ... onto the east side
and that's something that wasn't contemplated at the time the Southeast District
Plan, uh, was adopted and so what we've done now, that area there was about the
same 2 or 3 acres. What we've done since the adoption of the plan is we've taken
area that would otherwise be available for neighborhood commercial uses and we
converted it to multi - family uses. We've got 24 new units in that area, and so this
would be a nice swap, uh, based on, uh, what was in existence at the time the
Southeast District Plan, uh, was implemented. I ... there are neighbors here, um,
from the neighborhood. I think all of their concerns are legitimate. Uh, the
lighting, traffic, noise, urn ... they should be concerned about those things. It's no
different than any time we (mumbled) any sort of commercial use outside of the
downtown, uh, business, uh, district. Um ... but there's a way forward here. Um,
Casey, or excuse me, Kum and Go has really, um, done a great job of trying to
develop a plan that is responsive, uh, to those concerns. The City Council
considered that in connection with the Casey's rezoning and found a way forward.
Uh, I think the Council can find a way forward here, uh, as well, and we'd ask for
your consideration and I appreciate your time. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you.
Karr: Mr. Mayor, the applicant has provided hard copies of his PowerPoint; if Council
wishes to have copies I do have them.
Hayek: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is, uh, is there anyone else in the audience who
would like to weigh in?
Erwin: Yes, uh, good evening. My name is Ron Erwin and I live at 1146 Hampton Court
in, uh, the area we've been talking about. (clears throat) And I'm immediately
across the street, uh, from that area. And... in my thoughts of listening to this
weeks ago at the zoning, uh, meetings that were held, uh, it's here we go again.
This whole presentation was presented weeks ago to the zoning group and the
zoning group soundly voted it down and the people in the immediate
neighborhood, other than those directly involved with the development of the
area, had strong objections to it and, uh, many objections, not just the one that
says, uh, these items aren't needed from this business. (clears throat) We've got,
uh, we've got convenience stores and food stores and restaurants all over in that
particular area and on, just from that corner going in three different directions, a
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Page 19
very short distance, there's other places to get food and drink and gas and
cigarettes and the kinds of things that come out of this, uh, would come out of this
establishment. The people that live in the immediate area had, uh, strong
objections to this. And I ... I don't understand all the inner - workings of the City
government, but when the zoning group that you give the responsibility to, to sort
through all this before it gets to your organization and the overseeing of the entire
city, strongly objects to something and votes it down, and then it can be
circumvented and brought right back to the Council, uh, it just ... that strikes me as
a little odd, but again, I don't know all the inner - workings of uh ... of uh, the City
government. The, uh, at the zoning meeting we heard, uh, very long discussions
from the Kum and Go gentleman about the community and how much they knew
about the community, and also how ... how successful their company is, and I
don't doubt that it's very successful. Through all of those discussions and again
tonight, I didn't hear anything about people in the neighborhood that it's
immediately connected to this area (clears throat) voicing a need, uh, or voicing
an interest to have this business come in or a need to have the business come in.
And then the land owner, um, spoke tonight and again at the Zoning Commission
with a very lengthy talk about, you know, the years that he's been here and his
family and that's all very much appreciated. Um, I've been in Country Heights
for 22 years. Right now ... it was either, I think it was next month it'll be 22 years
and I've never had a need to just jump across the street real quick and get a pack
of cigarettes or a quart of milk or a gallon of gas because I can go just down the
street and there's several sources in three different directions. So I think, um ... I
think this whole thing is being rehashed and it's already ... it's already been hashed
over once with the zoning group and soundly voted down. I strongly object to it.
It's not needed and it's not wanted in that particular area, other than by the people
that are developing it. So thank you for your time.
Hayek: Thank you.
Knight: Hi, um, in case you forgot my name it's Roger Knight Jr.! Who remembered this
time! Um ... I just kind of wanted to kind of speak up on what he said. Um ... a lot
of times it seems like dollar signs, you know, like the old cartoons, dollar signs
get in these guys' eyes and, oh, we can make money! Ah, screw the neighbors!
You know? I mean, I know that's not the nicest language but ... that's the nicest
way you can put it. You know, it's not ... other things. You know? Gas smells.
Anybody thought of that? You know ... and it's just things like how, um, it was
thought about bringing the bars away from downtown, put `em in the
neighborhoods. Wow, that sounds like a good idea! I mean ... someone needs to
be thinking about things that aren't thought of. You know, hey, let's put this gas
station here. I love Kum and Go, you know, they're ... a lot of their sites are very
beautiful, but you still get the gasoline smell. You get oil from times, you know,
vehicles break down. You know? They pour it, oil on the road and ... you know?
Just things like that, nobody thinks of! Because how can you say, well, we're
going to put in a Kum and Go and we're going to expect six quarts of oil put on
the road every day. You know, I mean, it's just things like that that are never
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thought of I just wanted to ... kind of voice that because I don't think anybody
ever thinks of this stuff. So thank you, uh...
Hayek: Thank you.
McAlister: Hi, my name's Deb McAlister. I live at 1123 Hampton Court. Um... and first of
all I'd like to say I've been in that area of Towncrest for 34 years. I've had two
kids go through Lucas, Southeast, and City High. When we had the opportunity
to move off Bradford Drive, I elected to stay in that area because I liked it. If this,
if I had been in that situation now, I think I'd move out, and as, um, Mr. Pugh was
talking about the new school, the thought of children walking along that road,
it's... Muscatine is busy. Scott is busy! And putting a commercial enterprise on
that corner is not going to help. So I think that probably would be one of my
concerns, if we had been moving off Bradford and Hampton was available, I'm
not sure I would have taken it, and I... also think the idea that there are two
grocery stores, two drug stores, and three petrol stations within two minutes of
that intersection precludes some of the neces ... necessity of having it. I think that
there ... two of those establishments I know are 24- hours. There might be one
more. I, again, would like to echo one of my cul -de -sac neighbors, and I just
don't need to jump across the street that way. I think the availability is there, and
I don't think the growth ... multi-family I agree. I think we need more of it out
there. I ... all for the schools going on, and I would like the ... Kum and Go
representative to talk to the people from City High about lights, even though ours
were tennis courts. I don't care how they think they can screen them, um, there's
usually going to be a neighbor that's going to complain so ... having ... this addition
I don't think is necessary. So thank you for your time!
Hayek: Thank you.
Tunstell: My name is Ralph Tunstell. Um, I'm also here for something else on the agenda
tonight. Um, and the comments that I'd really like to make is we just moved back
here. I've been coming to this town for 25 years, and with all the new
developments that are happening, which is good and it's growth, there is going to
be growing pains. There's going to be a lot of things, but I'm not even looking in
that area on the east side for residency because it's ... it has that kind of element
where it's not very friendly on the business side. We have two, uh, HyVees
which are really close to each other, but nobody had a problem with that because
we knew that the east side was growing. We got one on the south on Waterfront
and we got one on the east side. We knew that the growth was going to happen. I
think with there being more development coming in, and I know this isn't the end
of it because I remember when I came to Iowa City. Just like with Coralville,
everything is growing. Everything's moving in together. So I think this should
be considered a little bit more just because the simple fact that there will be a need
within the next five years for more of these things, and the model that they
showed us, the reason I'm for it is because it actually looks like it's going to
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provide more services, more things for people that live in the area, that the other
gas stations aren't providing. So, that's all I have to say.
Hayek: Thank you.
Johnson: Just a moment here.
Hayek: Take your time!
Johnson: Um ... my name is Ken Johnson. I live on, uh, 3116 Maplewood Lane. Um, and
I'm opposed to this, um, not for a business reason but more for a traffic reason.
Um, I have several pictures here that I want to go through, uh, just very quickly,
and point out ... on here, uh ... I'll do it this way. Won't let me do that? No, it
probably won't. Here, do it this way. Yeah! Here's a picture of, um, American
Legion Road and uh, the other side is, uh, Muscatine, and then this is Scott. Um,
and this is all taken off of Google Earth. Um, so the size of the intersection itself,
uh, is from — this end to this end — is about, uh, 70 feet and uh, the proposal is to
put, uh, the Kum and Go here with access over here at 300 feet. Um ... right now
that street is two lanes. It necks down from, uh, First Avenue and Muscatine,
from a three -lane with a turn lane in the center, down to a two -lane. Okay? Um,
Kum and Go has demonstrated that they, uh, expect the traffic flow in that area,
uh, 6,000 to 8,000 cars, okay? Um, I ... I have nothing against Kum and Go or
... or you know, uh, their profit or whatever, um, and they expect people to come
in and ... and turn, but the ... the thing is ... at 300 feet this side of the road is 35-
miles -an-hour. Okay? That's 6 seconds. Six seconds from that turnoff to the
intersection. On the other side it's 45- miles - per -hour, that's 5 seconds. Um,
there's no reaction time for any of the drivers, even if they were on time and, you
know, obeying the law and not going faster than 45 or 35, even though they do,
um, not on their cell phones, not texting, not doing anything else (laughter) um...
there's no time for people to react for people turning. Um ... and then there were
some other drawings. I mean, they ... they put in some ideas of putting in, uh,
some additional... turn axes, um, I just wanted to point out some other things.
This is the ... the traffic circle (laughs) if you can call it that, um ... in Washington,
which is just down the street. Uh, you'll notice it's about 55 -feet across, okay? If
you want to put a traffic circle in that to accommodate that traffic flow, um, you
are looking at something... oh, that would be perfect! Um ... this is the one that's
in Coralville off of Holiday Road and it's 159 -feet as you can see across, and that
doesn't even account for the additional access, uh, going into this, and you can
see that they've divided this thing out. They had to expand that area. So in order
to accommodate even a simple traffic circle, which people do not slow down for.
They say they do, but they just go right past it, um ... you would have to end up
chewing into the corners, all right, not only of the ... the property where the store
would go, but also in the property of ..of the neighbors, just to accommodate the
flow. Um, there's no place to turn. If somebody, uh, tries to come in through that
area and you can see it from a variety of different access points, um, this I believe
is facing south, uh, coming up on, uh, Scott Boulevard, um, the Kum and Go
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would be somewhere over here, the location where ... for one of the entrances
would over here. Um, and you can see that. It's ... it's a blind turn. They're
going to come in. People are not going to stop. If there is a traffic circle, they're
just going to turn and ... you've already talked about an increase in population, in
increase of kids, an increase of a school there, you know. School's out. What do
the kids do? They all run to the Kum and Go and get ice cream. Okay? They're
going to run right across there and you're going to have an accident. All right? I
already called the Police Department asking for figures of, um, how many
accidents you have in that particular intersection. They didn't get back to me, but
I can only assume, especially on a street this ... this narrow, uh, with people
stopping, trying to turn right or left, onto the ... to the store itself, uh, you're just
going to increase the ... the problem with, uh, traffic and accidents. It's ... it's, if
you put this forward, you are just begging for more accidents to happen.
Um ... that being said, it is not ... I'm not against business. There are other
businesses that do not generate the same sort of turning. It's not traffic! It's the
turning. Um, there are things like, you know, you can put things like a small
bakery. You can put a coffee shop. You can put a dentist office. You can put a
doctor's office. You can put a small business office. All right? It's not the
commercial aspect. It is the aspect of the traffic that is just going to be generated
and the congestion that's going to be involved. Um, even during rush hour, you
know, our five - minute rush hour at 5:00, um, this whole area just backs up.
Um... just to be a little more thorough. Um, this comes in. This is you
approaching in to Iowa City, uh, on American Legion Road, um, once again, uh,
they're already starting the development over here of the ... the multi - family units,
and then just right about there, it's hard to see but uh, that's about where the turn-
off would be. So ... imagine if you're driving 45, you know, or obeying the speed
limit, you're going to go right through that, if there's a traffic circle, or even if
there's a traffic light. There's no place to turn, all right? Somebody's going to be
turning in front of you. What's going to happen? Um, those were just my
comments. I know a lot of people have talked about, uh, the visual and the
aesthetics. Um, the only other thing, uh, about the visual thing is, uh, this whole
area, if they do actually succeed in building the store, it'll be down low, which
just even hides the entrance more. I mean, it's... it's... it's not something that you
expect to see. Um, those were my comments and I thank you for your time.
Hayek: Thank you.
Karr: Sir, could you download them so we can make a permanent record of the (both
talking)
Johnson: Certainly!
Karr: Thank you.
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Hayek: While we're waiting for this download to occur is there anyone else from the
audience who wishes to weigh in before I close the public hearing? I see ... okay.
Okay!
Gravitt: My name is Mary Gravitt. I live in Towncrest and uh, we have drug stores piling
up on top of each other and the HyVee and so forth, but I agree with this
gentleman. I find that the City is issuing too many permits to build buildings on
these narrow, narrow streets. Streets need to be wide. We're in the age of terror
so you have to have something for the emergency vehicle ... for people to drive!
So even that ... on ... on William, Arthur, that new medical building on, uh, in
Towncrest. He's up to the curb. The bus can't make a right and a car can't come
up. So the car has to back up. So I think there should be some kind of ordinance
how wide a street is supposed to be. Now I'm not against like progress, and I
don't even know about that, but I know these streets are too narrow for what
people want to propose as, you know, as progress. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you.
Yoder: Hi, I'm Margie Yoder and I live at 1161 Hampton Court, which is directly across
from the Hieronymus house. And um ... I just wanted to, uh, say my husband's
also here and he's been a resident, he was born and raised in Iowa City. Always
lived on the east side. We've been married for 42 years. Always lived on the east
side. We love the east side of town ... of Iowa City. I wouldn't trade it for
anything. Um ... we were the first ones in that Hampton Court area that bought a
lot and we loved it. There was nothing there, nothing (laughs) nothing to the
east, nothing... there was nothing anywhere, except for Village Green, and we
loved it, you know, and we felt like we were kind of out in the country, um, but
yet close to everything. You know, you ... had HyVee down there. There's
Walgreen's. Well, not back then but there was other stores there. There's gas
stations close and um, the one thing they didn't kind of talk about is the safety. I
think something I'm kind of worried about is our house is right at the end of
where that high, they keep talking about this high fence, that it won't, you know,
so it won't bother people ... that live over here (noise on mic) oops (laughter) that
live over here. (laughter) Sorry! That live over on Hampton Court, but we don't
have that high fence in the back of us. We just have a few little trees, and I am
kind of concerned about the kind of traffic that's going to happen. I don't care
what anyone says, those kind of places you're going to get a lot of kids. You're
going to get a lot of foot traffic. We've already got foot traffic, it seems like,
coming up there the way it is already and I ... all I can see is it just getting busier
and busier and busier, and they're going to be going through my backyard
because there's a high fence and then there's a fence and they're going to be
cutting through, and frankly I ... I'm afraid of that. I don't want that, and, you
know, and ... I guess ... you know ... I have to agree with the other speak... speakers.
I was at the other meeting too and I guess I don't understand. We have a Planning
and Zoning Committee and they honestly agreed with everything that we had
said. And they understood, you know, what... what... what we were... concerned
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about and safety is a big thing in my opinion. I mean, we're going to get more
traffic over there. You're going to get a lot of foot traffic, which like, I mean I'll
admit, I'm kind of afraid of it. You know, we ... I don't want all that foot traffic.
feel like we have enough already. So, I just want to say, you know ... you know,
I'm really against it and if there's anything you can do I'd sure appreciate it.
Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you.
Giesking: Hi, my name is Desiree Giesking um, I'm actually here for something else too.
Um, I used to work right across the street at the retirement home there, and I think
having a store right there, right by a retirement home, is I think ... I disagree. Um,
because the fact that all the senior centers are not going to want all that traffic
there, all that noise. And ... that's what I think. I just think that the seniors are not
going to approve with all the nose going through there and all the, you know, the
gas pump noises and everything else around there so ... that's what I think.
Hayek: Thank you.
Giesking: Thanks!
Hayek: Appreciate it!
Shepard: Hi, my name is Todd Shepard. I live at 1147 Hampton Court and ... having been
here not too long ago with the Zoning Board and having to rehash all this again is
kind of surprising to me also but uh ... uh, I can tell you a little bit about myself.
I've lived in Iowa City all my life. Uh, most recently for about three years over in
the Hampton Court area. Uh, before that I lived closer to downtown and actually
right next to a railroad track, so I'm very familiar with all the noises and the, uh,
the goings on that happen downtown. Having moved out to Hampton Court, um,
looked at the area. It was a very nice area with a green space out in front and very
quiet. Wake up, uh, in the mornings lot of times with my windows open and can
hear the birds, so, uh, having the idea of having a convenience store coming into
this area, um, and anticipating that I'm going to hear 24 -hours a day that pump #4,
#5 is on, and you can go ahead and fill up is something that's a little discerning to
me. Um ... the idea of having alcohol, having the ... near dog park, uh, having
people come over and camp and cut through a common area into that area is also
something that's concerning to me. So it's something that I agree with many of
the neighbors in the area that it is not a friendly use of that, uh ... uh, area and
um ... so I would agree with the Zoning Commission so ... that's all I have to say.
Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you.
Stochl: My name is David Stochl. I live at 1158 Hampton Court, directly behind where
the proposed convenience store, and I'm the gentleman that has, my wife and I
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have the house behind the fence and the trees. Needless to say, the trees don't
have leaves on them 20...12 months out of the year. I have taken the privilege
before the Planning and Zoning meeting and then two weeks ago to take
nighttime photographs, which I have brought with me. They're not on a flash
drive, but I have them available for you if you'd like to see them, of what a
comparable store is in Muscatine. The lighting from the canopy would literally
flow into my bedrooms in my house on the second floor. The elevation is
virtually the same from the second floor of my house. Not only the elevation
from the canopy, but the thing that ... things that weren't addressed were the
lighting aspects of the security lights. The security lights of all the convenience
stores that Kum and Go have built that I've witnessed, one in Cedar Rapids, one
in West Des Moines, one in Muscatine — all are taller and much more aluminous,
for security purposes, than the canopy lights of the multiple gas filling station, uh,
facilities. I think the City did a very good job. In 1972 I bought a house on
Pinecrest Road, right behind Robert Lucas School. My wife sold that house when
I went to a trade show in Chicago on one weekend, and I had to build another
house! (laugther) That was the carrot I tangled. You sell the house and I'll build
you another one! Well, guess what? Twenty -four hours later, she sold the house.
On the bulletin board of HyVee, by the way. The City Comp Plan, at that point in
time, said that will be a residential area. We turned around and wanted to live on
the east side of Iowa City. Our children went to Robert Lucas, to Southeast, to
City High, um ... we bought that lot, built the house with the understanding that
would be in the Comp Plan a residential area. From a business standpoint, I don't
belittle any company that wants to create a business and try to get a piece of the
pie of all of the commerce that's out there. Again, we've said before, other
neighbors have stated, we have a HyVee store. We have drug stores. We have
two convenience stores on Muscatine and Scott, or excuse me, Muscatine and
First Avenue. We have convenience store and a grocery store a mile south, and
we have convenience stores north of this intersection. I think it's well penetrated.
I think it's well established that if you need something, the opportunity is there to
get whatever you need. In closing, basically from a security standpoint of
lighting, from the ... the standpoint of traffic, and the standpoint of commerce, I
would entertain that the City Council deny, vote to deny, this application and keep
our area a residential area and if need be ... figure out another way through a
different Comp Plan or an additional Comp Plan to take the, this type of store or
this type of commercial business farther east to the Taft Avenue intersection or on
the Taft Avenue, which is eventually going to become what Scott Boulevard is
today. So again, in summary I would say I would vote ... I would urge the City
Council to deny this application. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay. Um, before I close the public hearing I need to
take the Council's temperature.
Throgmorton: I'd like to ask Eleanor a question if you don't mind. Uh, for clarification about
something. Uh, about a year and a half ago when I first got on the Council, Terry
and I met with Mr. Hieronymus and at least one or two gentlemen from Kum and
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Page 26
Go, and at the time we just learned what ... what they had in mind and we just
listened. Terry, tell me if I'm wrong, and we just said, you know, well if you
want to kind of pursue things you need to talk to the staff and you'll have to go
through the Planning and Zoning Commission and things like that. So ... so
there's no reason why we would need to recuse ourselves is there?
Champion: Oh no! I think we all met with Kum and Go representatives. I mean, I also met
(several talking)
Throgmorton: Yeah, well I just wanted to have that kind of out there on the record and
everything. Okay. Sorry, Matt. Thanks!
Hayek: Okay. So I need to take the Council's temperature before I close the ... the public
hearing. The purpose for that is that if the Council's inclined to go against the
Planning and Zoning Commission on this issue, um, we don't close the public
hearing. Instead continue it and ... and uh, hold a ... a joint session with Planning
and Zoning. Um, that's the technical reason why I'm taking the temperature of
the Council before I close the ... the public hearing. So the question is, is the
Council inclined to go against P &Z on this item?
Throgmorton: I am not inclined to go against P &Z or the staff. They've made, uh, what I take to
be very sound recommendations about what to do, uh, at...at the site. It seems to
me that the Comprehensive Plan is ... has a ... appropriate uses envisioned for that
particular site, and I think, uh, the proposed rezoning would be, uh, completely
inconsistent with what's needed in that area. So I ... I'm inclined to go along with
what the staff and Planning and Zoning Commission recommended.
Champion: Are we supposed to speak (several talking)
Mims: ...trying to get an idea.
Hayek: Yeah, I just ... and we don't ... this is not debate or discussion. I just want to see if
this Council's inclined to go against the Planning and Zoning and staff.
Champion: No, we're not.
Hayek: Okay, it doesn't appear to be the case. So, based upon that I am going to close the
public hearing at this time. (bangs gavel)
2. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION
Dobyns: Move the resolution.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by, uh, Dobyns, seconded by Payne. Discussion?
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Throgmorton: We need to be clear about how we're voting then.
Hayek: Right.
Champion: Well I think it's important to realize that this is, um, to me about a neighborhood.
Um, I've driven out there. I think the Kum and Go will be detrimental to that
neighborhood. I don't care if we ... if we need a Kum and Go there or not. I'm
not making my decision on that. I don't care if there's 10 gas stations in a row. If
people want to get a piece of the pie if it's appropriate. I just don't find this spot
appropriate. It's pretty high. Houses are below it. The new residential areas are
going to be below it, and I find lights from Kum and Go and gas stations, not just
Kum and Go, offensive, and... and now they're open 24- hours -a -day. It was nice
when I grew up, they closed at 8:00, which was perfect unless you were a
teenager that needed a quarter's worth of gas — you were in trouble! But ... I'm
not against Kum and Go. I'm not against gas stations. I'm certainly not, and I
think this Council's been very pro- business and commercial, but I've driven out
there and I just think it's going to be detrimental to the neighborhood, and I'm not
willing to change the Plan. I'm sorry. I'm just not willing to do it.
Mims: Yeah, I've got concerns about the location as well. I think some of the things that
were shown in terms of the ... the width of, uh, of Muscatine Avenue coming into
that intersection, um, I think the hill as you go south on Scott Boulevard to the
intersection in terms of vis ... visibility. I think the idea of potentially new
elementary school out there with a lot more foot traffic in the area. Um, I think
the turning, both on Muscatine and Scott to get in and out of there, um, are all
problematic for this particular site. So, I'll go along with P &Z.
Hayek: I think, uh, strong arguments have been made on both sides of this, but generally I
need a pretty good reason to go against the recommendation of staff and, uh, a 6 -0
vote from the Planning and Zoning Commission. Um, and as we went through
this exercise this evening, I ... I kept looking for what that reason would be, um
...in terms of changing the Comp Plan and ... and looking at the rezoning. Um,
and I ... I ... I can't justify in my own mind going against that recommendation and
the Planning and Zoning, uh, decision. I don't think commercial's the best use for
that, uh, location. Uh, this isn't, uh, I think there's a distinction between a
location like this and Highway 6 and I'm just not comfortable with the request.
Dickens: I'm kind of in the same ... same camp there, that uh, I think this comer ... I used to
live about a mile away, closer to, uh, Court Street and Scott Boulevard area there,
and used to walk that area, ride bikes when I could ride a bike, um, it's ... it's an
area that I really worry about future safety, uh, especially with the school going
into that area. So I ... I'm inclined to ... to follow the P &Z.
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Payne: I too think that great arguments were made on both sides but I'm not inclined to
go against the Planning and Zoning recommendations either, for all the reasons
that were stated by everybody else.
Dobyns: Call the question.
Champion: I also think...
Hayek: You speaking in parliamentary, uh, or just uh (both talking)
Dobyns: Uh...
Hayek: ...basically saying you don't want to add anything? (several talking)
Dobyns: Go ahead, Connie!
Champion: Oh! I just wanted to remind people out there that the bucks stop here. Planning
and Zoning is the recommending body commissioned to us, but we actually do
make the decision. So you don't need to worry about it ... this time! But we can
change our ... we can change our minds! Or change their mind or whatever! You
know what I mean!
Hayek: Is there any further discussion? So again, a no vote would be consistent with the
Planning and Zoning. Just so we're all clear on that! Roll call, please. Fails 7 -0.
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ITEM 4b HIERONYMUS / KUM AND GO REZONING - REZONING 0.85 -
ACRES FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE - FAMILY (RS -5) ZONE AND
2.87 -ACRES FROM LOW DENSITY MULTI - FAMILY (RM -12) ZONE TO
COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL (CC -2) ZONE FOR PROPERTY
LOCATED NORTH OF MUSCATINE AVENUE, WEST OF SCOTT
BOULEVARD. (REZ13- 00012) [Discussion only at formal meeting]
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Hayek: This is a public hearing. I will open it at this time. (bangs gavel) Reiterate the
request, any ex parte? Okay. Is there any... from the public who would like to
weigh in on this?
Hieronymus: John Hieronymus. Uh, I want to thank the Council for their attention. Um, I hope
that the next item does not preclude, uh, future, assuming that it gets voted down
because it's inappropriate given that it no longer fits what's necessary under the
Comp Plan, uh, I hope it does not preclude changes in the future, because
obviously, uh, the first development wouldn't work. Um, it was economically
unfeasible to put it there. Um ... I couldn't find anybody that was willing to ... to
do it. Uh, this one has been determined to be, urn ... not plausible I guess is the
(clears throat) is the answer I'd say, um, and so ... uh, you've left us in a
posi ... position of growing beans or corn again, and I don't know what we want to
do in the future, if we can do anything other than sell it to somebody else who
might have greater success in, uh, developing it in the future. So I would hope
that any ... a no vote or whatever on the next ... on this item wouldn't preclude
some attempt in the future of trying to get a change in zoning that would be a
development that actually is economically feasible. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you. Anyone else from the audience? Okay.
Dobyns: I do have a question, given the vote on 4a, um, does 4b truly go to three
considerations?
Dilkes: No. Not if you voted no and...
Dobyns: Okay. All right.
Hayek: It doesn't make it to the second if you (both talking) if it doesn't pass.
Dobyns: ...because it would be a no vote too. Okay.
Hayek: Okay. Council inclined to go with the Planning and Zoning recommendation on
this? Okay, I'm going to close the public hearing. (bangs gavel)
2. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
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Page 30
Mims: Move first consideration.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Payne. Discussion? Roll call, please. Fails 0 -7.
Um...
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Throgmorton: So moved.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Throgmorton, seconded by Payne. Discussion? All those in favor say
aye. Opposed say nay. Motion carries 7 -0. So the next item, do we want to keep
going?
Champion: Yes!
Hayek: Get through the next item and then maybe take a break? Okay.
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ITEM 4c REZONING FIRST AND ROCHESTER — CONDITIONALLY
REZONING PROPERTY FROM LOW DENSITY MULTI - FAMILY (RM-
12) ZONE TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY/LOW DENSITY
MULTI - FAMILY (OPD/RM -12) ZONE LOCATED ON FIRST AVENUE,
NORTH OF ROCHESTER AVENUE. (REZ13- 00004) [Discussion only at
formal meeting]
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Hayek: This is a public hearing. The public hearing is open. (bangs gavel) Uh, any ex
parte communications to disclose?
Dobyns: Yes, I did discuss this case with, uh, Ed Wasserman and I'll discuss the details of
that subsequently.
Hayek: Okay. And, uh, Rick Dobyns and I spoke, uh, yesterday (both talking)
Dobyns: Yesterday.
Hayek: ...briefly and you said you had some questions about (unable to hear person away
from mic) Okay! What I was saying is that, uh, Rick Dobyns and I spoke
yesterday, uh, briefly about this. You said you had some questions about grade
and drainage.
Dobyns: Uh huh. Yes.
Hayek: So...
Dilkes: Rick, you want to disclose the substance of that communication now, because...
Dobyns: It was on grade and drainage.
Dilkes: Okay.
Dobyns: Yeah.
Davidson: Excuse me (both talking)
Hayek: Jeff!
Davidson: (laughter) Uh, this item should also be somewhat familiar to you. Uh, in ... last
fall, you rezoned this property, uh, to the zoning that you, uh, well, excuse me.
This is the location map again, just to orient you. Uh, the property, uh, that we're
looking at is the shaded area, right here. Uh, this was rezoned last fall from RS -5
to RM -12, basically making it consistent with everything else up and down
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the ... the First Avenue, uh, corridor here. The applicant, uh, found when he
moved forward with designing the project that there were critical slopes on the
property that were, at that time unknown, which neces ... necessitates a sensitive
areas rezoning, which is what you ... which is why we're back, uh, tonight to ... to
consider the project. Um, I believe there is a 103 pages of materials regarding
this item in your, uh, in your packet. So I'm going to attempt to succinctly, uh
...uh, summarize that as much as possible, and I think there are some key issues
here that have been focused on. This spent three meetings at the Planning and
Zoning Commission, so there was a lot of vetting it. There's been a lot of thought
put into it, and I think some positive things have been accomplished in terms of
the design you approved and the design that we have now. Um, the couple of
things that have been issues, just ... let's see real quickly here. This is the existing
site, uh, obviously the adjacency to Hickory Hill Park has been a concern. Um,
certainly the adjacency to this lot and the existing building that you see here, 4-
story building on First Avenue. You will see the location of this building. You
can see from this aerial, uh, that it's very much moved to the north property line,
which has created some of the issues that, if you read the Planning and Zoning
Commission discussion you saw, uh, called out. Uh, because of the sensitive
features on this lot, the lot, uh, this is obviously the side of the hill. Uh, I think we
have an aerial somewhere. There! Uh, that shows the site. You can see the
slope. Uh, we're also looking downhill. Um ... uh, this is a view from that
existing building, uh, next door. There's the existing building, uh, looking at it
and you see the retaining wall that's built, uh, very close to the property line. Um,
there are a number of, um, comments in the Planning and Zoning Commission
and I have no doubt that this evening you may hear some more, uh, expressed
about the trees in this vicinity, so I wanted to slow some pictures of those trees.
You see them here, uh, here, and then in this vicinity. The edge of the building is
right here. I think the garages, the roof of the garages of, again, the existing
building, uh, are right here. Um... uh, this I wanted to show you because one of
the issues, uh, that ... that was a concern of the neighboring property was possibly,
uh, having some instability between the proposed development and the existing
development. There is a system of retaining walls that you see here, which you
can see right here. Uh, it has been determined by the subsequent structural
engineering work, uh, that has been done to dry ... to try and, uh, design a project
that's appropriate for the site, uh, that ... that this project would not create an
unstable condition here, and in fact, the ... the project has been thoroughly vetted
by a structural engineer, uh, both the drainage and the placement of the building
on the site has been okayed by our, uh, City engineer, and I believe we have
representatives from Engineering here tonight if you want more detail about that,
but it has been, uh, approved in that respect. We believe we have something
(coughing, unable to hear speaker) drain correctly, that will not unduly affect
structurally the existing, uh, building here. Uh, here you see the site plan, the
building on the lot, uh, the access point here, uh, on First Avenue has been
checked for site distance. It's in both the horizontal and vertical curve, but the
site distance is okay. We believe this is the ... the best location. Uh, there's
underground parking for 16 units, and I guess I showed you earlier, uh, that's
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what the proposed building would look like. It's very similar to the existing
building, uh, at the intersection of Hickory Trail and the one that you approved
catty -corner across the street from that building. Very similar buildings, uh, all 16
units. Uh, I believe these are two - bedroom units, is that correct? Yeah, the
applicant is shaking his head. Uh, you can see the system of retaining walls here.
Uh, that again have been part of the development of the ... the site plan and ... and
in terms of structural stability and ... and making it work. Um, I'm going to very
quickly go through the CZA conditions. Oh, I thought this was an interesting
diagram, as well. There were concerns, uh, expressed by the ... the folks in this
building at the Planning and Zoning Commission. This ... this diagram was put
together. You can see it's a two -story building, much shorter building. The
parking level is approximately right here in the existing building. So the majority
of views, at least, will be, uh ... uh, over the top of the, uh, proposed building. Uh,
I think ... let's see ... yeah, here you see the sensitive areas development plan, and I
...I just wanted to show this quickly. You see the topo lines here, uh, indicating
the steep... steepness of the site, and that has been taken into consideration, uh,
and then of course you see the adjacency of Regenia High School. Regina High
School was the, uh, owner of the property that, uh, has had it for sale, uh, for
development purposes. So, staff recommendation and Planning and Zoning, er,
Commission recommendation was for approval. Um, very quickly, because I
know in your, uh, the remainder of your hearing you may hear, um, some
comments about, uh, what the developer is or is not required to do, so I wanted to
just very briefly go through the CZA conditions because these are what the
developer is required to do, and anything that's not included, developer would not
be required to do. Uh, design of the retaining walls and foundations to
incorporate the, you know, basically that it's sound from a structural engineering,
uh, perspective. Development of the property consistent with the preliminary, uh,
site plan that you just saw a picture of. Um, the building designed, uh, consistent
with the elevation drawings you saw of the ... the two - colored building there, the
16 -unit building. Uh, the north ... the areas north of the parking lot that are up, I
guess it'd be easier here. Here, uh, adjacent to the park there's been careful
consideration, uh, made to the type of plantings that are consistent with the park,
uh, plantings and ... and uh, those are required to be used. Uh, retaining walls over
3 -feet in height that are visible from the public right-of-way ... which would
basically be ... this one and this one, are required to be, uh, screened. In the
materials you have in your packet it says 5 -feet. That was a typographical error,
which we apologize for. That's been corrected to 3 -feet and the applicant has
managed to get the signatures needed for you to proceed with your vote, uh, this
evening. Um ... where possible additional trees of an appropriate species, uh,
planted to the south, and this is a key thing. Those trees that you saw in that
picture, because that other building is so close, are likely to be disturbed. The
applicant has indicated he will do everything he can to preserve them, but they are
likely to be disturbed. There is a planting plan ... which you see here for, you see
all the new trees that'll be incorporated, uh, the vegetation up in this area against
the park. Uh, but it's this area in through here that ... that's really a concern of the
folks in the adjacent building, um, and ... and that's a matter where the applicant's
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indicated he will do what he can, but there's likely to be some disturbance of
those trees, and then finally, um, the landscaping plan gets submitted to the City's
Design Review staff, that's an administrative review, um, just to make sure that
everything is in compliance. Those are the CZA conditions. Uh, before you
continue your hearing, are there any other questions for me?
Hayek: Thanks, Jeff!
Davidson: Thank you.
Hayek: This is a public hearing. Anyone is welcome to weigh in.
Wasserman: Hello, I'm Ed Wasserman. I live in Park Plaza Condominiums, which is next
door. 555 N. First Avenue. Oh man, let me ... I don't know how to use these
machines to get out. I just ... no, I want to just get to my PowerPoint.
Davidson: (mumbled) Okay, I think we...
Wasserman: It's on the desktop, wherever the desktop is.
Davidson: Uh, let's see. Do we just close this (both talking)
Hayek: Bring the college student in! (laughter)
Champion: Or the 5- year -old! (laughs)
Davidson: (several talking and laughing) We'll get the expert in here. (several talking)
There you go! Can you find it there?
Wasserman: I can indeed!
Davidson: Okay!
Wasserman: Standing at this podium has gotten to be something of a habit! This is either the
fifth or sixth time I've been here, not to address you. Thank you for your
attention for talking with Planning and Zoning. Uh, I've lived at 555 N. First
Avenue for seven and a half years. I've seen very large developments go up on
Rochester and First Avenue, and now I see another development, uh, another 16-
unit building going in north of Hickory Hill Park. This would be south of
Hickory Hill Park, framing the entrance to the park. Uh, I'm here not only to
represent my own interests but many people who've signed on, filed protest pe...
uh, petitions with you and you do require a super- majority in order to approve this
request, it's my understanding. Uh, this is the location of the lot, somehow
magically trees disappear when the overhead shot is shown, but trust me — they're
there! Uh, and here they are. These are very tall, mature trees. There are trees
along this back edge of the lot, as well as trees within the lot that neighbor
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Hickory Hill Park. Disturbance of the trees would be the understatement of the
evening. It will be the total destruction of every tree on this lot. Every tree that
you see here will be gone, including those that are ... that look like they're on our
property but are actually on the other property. But let me proceed with what I
have to say about, uh, this plan and why the neighbors are quite concerned about
its going through in the present form. So I ... here's some texts from the
Comprehensive Plan. We've heard about the Comprehensive Plan before and
what is and isn't included in it, but this is what is in it. Because our district
includes areas with woodlands, steep slopes, and stream corridors development
should be planned with an emphasis on adapting existing terrain in accordance
with the sensitive areas ordinance. We don't believe, we who live in this area,
that this plan complies with the spirit and the letter of the Comprehensive Plan.
There's simply too much building for too little land, and you can point to the
proximity of our building to the, uh, lot, but we weren't (laughs) we had nothing
to do with approving that plan. The Planning and Zoning Commission did, and so
did you! We just live there. So let's talk about the concerns that we neighbors
have about this project. The first is the destruction of the woodlands, the de-
stabilization of slee ... steep slopes, and the disruption of stream corridors. Those
were the specifics points raised in the Comprehensive Plan that we see as
problematical for this project. So, this is a view, another view of the trees, uh,
from First Avenue. You can see our building here and you can see the mature
trees. They're very high. They actually overtop the building at the moment.
These trees along the back edge you will see in the next slide, they're here, and
these trees that you may think are in Hickory Hill Park aren't. They're on the lot.
Every tree that you see, uh, within this region will be destroyed, not disturbed, by
the plan. Now these trees represent the only visual and acoustic barrier between
the buildings. However it came to be that our building is where it is, the size and
scope of the proposed building is going to put it immediately adjacent to ours.
And, this is going to be a ... a disruption of not only aesthetic but acoustic
importance. There is a very nice park -like area of the lot. If you drove by and
looked at the lot, you would see, well, you could put a pretty large unit there.
You could put an eight -plex there and there would be trees and it would be lovely
and all that would be nice! But that's not what's being proposed. What's being
proposed is total tree removal of this entire lot. It's not only going to lower the
property values of our building, our units, but it's not going to do anything to
enhance the value of the building that's going in, because there will be no, uh,
mature trees on the lot at all. We're also concerned because all this tree removal
is going to disturb the soil in already extremely steep slopes. Now, in order to put
this project in, there's going to have to be excavation. Extraordinary excavation.
And it will be perilously close to our building and to Hickory Hill Park. Uh, we
believe, engineering reports notwithstanding, that it will threaten the integrity of
our building and its terraced landscaping, and it will also upset the stream
corridors in the area. So let me show you a different view, or a different
rendering of the drawing that you've seen. You saw the drawing before, but what
you didn't see was the 12 -feet further, underneath, that has to be excavated out in
order to accommodate the parking. This is the bottom of the parking in our
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building. This is the bottom of the parking in the adjacent building. If you drew a
line from one to the other, it exceeds the ... the slope, uh, the proper slope
ordinance. The only thing that mitigates against it is this wall. A 10 -foot wall. A
10 -foot retaining wall. Which we're told... should be fine, but who knows. This
is also the area where all the trees are. So when those are removed and the soil
beneath them disturbed, that is a disturbance, uh, we don't know what will
happen. And... you ask well why would we be worried? Well, I'll... I'll show
you why we would be worried. Quite simply, that lot is already a stream corridor.
If you were to come up to the top of our building and look down, you can see
where the water comes during heavy rain and during snow melt. It already flows
onto First Avenue and into Hickory Hill Park. We're concerned that with the
extra excavation and tree removal, that this is going to exacerbate drainage
problems for our building, for the landscaping, and for Hickory Hill Park, as well.
And these aren't fanciful concerns. The walk, the little bridge in Hickory Hill
Park was washed out this spring. Had to be replaced at City expense. Our
building has suffered several drainage and settling problems that, uh, need
attention. Uh, some of these we've attended to already. The shifting of the soil
underneath our building has caused some of the windows to crack because the,
uh, the uh ... the window frames have been torqued by the shifting of the building.
This is a pretty unsettled area and all the drainage has to go somewhere, and in
our case, the drainage actually goes underneath the concrete of our building and
also along the retaining wall, which I can show you as well. So ... here's our
building, and if you look carefully you see different colored patches. Those
different color patches are there because we've had to replace large expanses of
concrete. Why? Because the drainage from above has actually come through and
underneath portions of the building, unsettling the concrete that was there, and the
shifting in the building has required us to replace windows that have been broken
out because the building is shifting. We're concerned because we were told,
somebody was told, that this was a good plan. Planning and Zoning said, fine.
Somebody built the building. We bought the units in the building, and now we're
suffering the consequences. Here's the inside of my garage. It just happens to be
my garage. It's the one most proximal to the retaining wall. And this is along the
retaining wall, and you can see from the top, which is about 12 feet down, you
can see water marks. So we're also getting along the edge of the building, where
the re ... where our terraced landscaping is, we're having water getting into
the ... into the basement and into the garage. This isn't below ground level. This
is ground level right here. So we're suffering from water issues as it is and we
have every I think reason to believe that it's not going to get better when, and if,
this building is put next to it. So I would just like to reiterate the main points that
I've tried to make here, that this is an environmentally sensitive lot. It's a lot that
Planning and Zoning people repeatedly talked about as challenging,
problematical, and the like and there's a reason for that. Uh, we think that any
development here should proceed with ... with what they say is an abundance of
caution and should strictly accord with the Comprehensive Plan and the sensitive
areas ordinance. Uh, we don't believe that the present proposal does so. We'd
like to see the proposal denied in a more reasonably proportioned building and a
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more suitably located building go in. We're not against development of the lot.
We're just against a development that's so large that it goes stem to stern across
the lot, taking out every tree, upsetting what already are sensitive slopes, and
making for potential, um, problems, not only for our building, but for the building
that's being contemplated. Anyone have any questions I'd be happy to try to
answer them if you did.
Hayek: Thank you, Sir!
Wasserman: Thank you.
Hayek: Anyone else? Anyone, uh, wishing to weigh in before I... okay! (unable to hear
person away from mic)
Seaman: Hi, my name is Walter Seaman. I live in that building next door also at 551 N.
First Avenue and I'd like to reiterate and support what, uh, Ed Wasserman has
just said in great detail about the potential, uh, difficulties with the ... with the
building plan as is. Um, we've heard, um ... uh, before that we shouldn't be bound
by the ... by the Comprehensive Plan, that those things need to be re- evaluated in
time, and I think that's absolutely correct, but it's also the case that we shouldn't
just throw them out, uh, without due consideration, and in the, uh, Central
Planning District, uh ... uh, the um, sub -area B which is where our building is
located and the proposed building is located, uh, one of the things it says in that
plan is, um, improvements in access to parks is another issue of importance to
residents of this area of the Central District. That's page 17 of the plan. Um...
the destruction of the trees that ... that Ed, uh, mentioned certainly seems to me to
be a direct contradiction of, uh, what ... at least what I would call, um, a...
improvements and access to parks of importance... that are of importance to
residents. Uh, I think with regard to the drainage issue, uh, there... there's a...
there's something I want to point out too which is we ... we bought our unit in
2011. We actually looked at it in 2010 and we ... and we very much liked the
place, but our, uh, the person who did the housing evaluation for us said there's
something... that he thought there was something structurally wrong with the
building, uh, cause there were problems with the windows, and it turned out to be
exactly what Ed was talking about. There was a shifting in the building, uh,
which caused us not to buy the property at that time, which ended up, uh, being
fairly expensive, uh, thing to fix and uh, ended up with an assessment for
everyone in the building. So it was a highly non - trivial problem that had not been
anticipated, and it's a consequence of the... of the potential drainage problems,
which could be exacerbated by this even further deep excavation, uh, for the
proposed building. Um ... I think, uh, that's probably the ... those are probably the
salient points I wanted to make. Um, please take into consideration what this, uh,
First Avenue, uh ... portion of First Avenue would look like, uh, with all those
mature trees gone in ... in comparison with how it looks now as an entrance -way,
this sort of idyllic setting looking into ... looking into Hickory Hill Park. And I
also agree, uh, with what Ed said, we're ... uh, we agree that the ... the, it is
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perfectly fine for a building to go on that lot. That ... that's what it was zoned for,
uh, a certain type of building, and the one that's proposed is sort of, uh, much
beyond that, and I think that's really the source of the problem, and that's why we
would appreciate consideration of, uh, denial of proposal, as is. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you.
Miller: Good evening, Jeff Miller. We have had a long journey to get to this point, with
lots of questions and concerns, but I just thought I would like to address the
Council with a couple of the concerns, just ... as just mentioned. Um ... first to the
concern with the building to the north, excuse me, to the south. The, uh, our
structural engineer that looked at it, uh, he ... he even made a comment in the,
perhaps in your notes or the information that when that, when the building goes in
there'll be actually more dirt, uh, put against the wall that's there now. The wall
that belongs to the building to the south will actually increase in stability because
they'll be adding dirt against it, uh, so ... that's ... that's a positive with the building
next door. The change of that lot, you know, with ... with diversion of water,
obviously there's... there's lots of engineering going on there, but the reality of
that lot is that the water issues will actually improve once they're taken care of in
the appropriate way ... proper way. With an undeveloped piece of ground there's
ravines, there's all kinds of waterways and uh, any time you have some grade,
there's going to be water movement, but with the, uh, with ... with all the
engineering and all the site plans and ... and concerns and questions from staff and
also from the engineers, uh, they pretty much said that this ... the actual water
iss... issue, situation will improve because instead of it going anywhere and
everywhere, it will be going to the ... going to the appropriate places. Uh, all the
water that will be going off the new building, the new site, will not affect the
park. It's not going to the park. It's not going to Ralston Creek. It's not going to
go to the street. All those ... all those water issues have to be, uh, and are dealt
with with the actual site plan. Um ... the concern with the ... the building again to
the ... to the north ... to the south. Excuse me! I don't even know my directions!
South! Is, um ... the um ... we're downhill from that building and of course any
time there's excavation there's always ... could be potential concerns, but again,
bringing in en ... these engineers, when they come in, they're not ... they're not my
brother or my ... my friend or ... they're looking at it very scientifically with an
engineering mind and ... and so when these concerns are brought up, they're not
doing something just to get a check. They look at it and they sign off on it. It's
their ... it's their business. That's what they do. So ... when I ... when I hear
concerns and then when I ... when I talk with these engineers and they tell me this
is what you need to do, then uh, then obviously it makes sense. It's practical.
Um, as far as the size of the building with, uh, with zoning, the building can
actually be sm ... bigger! It's not like this thing is filling the whole lot. It could be
25% bigger, uh, based on the ... the lot size. And then also, uh, back to Planning
and Zoning. Staff have been, um, helpful and yet very diligent and very ... well,
not ... it hasn't been an easy ... easy thing because they ... they've required a lot of
things. We've started a year ago. We've had multiple designs. We ... we've
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made changes and uh, as it all turned out the staff was unanimous in ... with this
particular plan. So ... I hope that, uh, the City Council will vote favorably.
Hayek: Thank you. Anyone else during this public hearing?
Buddenbaum: Hi, uh, Jim Buddenbaum. 557 N. First Avenue. Um ... I think, uh, Ed's
presentation was accurate and uh ... fair-minded. I think the characterization by
the petitioner of how technically the engineers can whisk away all the water that
eventually comes out of the sky is a little in my mind, uh, farfetched. We have
lived on the corner of this building since 2005 and I can guarantee you that if
water comes from here it's going to find its way down there, and it has since
we've been in this building and we put in about $50,000 to try to correct some of
it. We haven't corrected all of it. The lot next door, uh, is up here. The building
is down there. Digging a foundation for a ... a garage ... the water will find its way
in. It's not going anywhere. It's not going down a conduit into never -never land
or First Avenue or anywhere else. I am violently (laughs) if you will opposed to
this being developed the way it's been presented to you. So I'm asking you to
deny the petitioner. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, and we do have a signed CZA with those
corrections? (unable to hear person responding) Okay. Um, so at this time I
need to take the temperature of the Council before I close the public hearing.
Champion: Well I'd like to hear something from ... from one of the engineers that handled that
(both talking)
Dobyns: Yeah, I think that (both talking)
Hayek: ... Ron here? Yep.
Dobyns: Ron.
Knoche: The ... the way the plan is set up currently, uh, that the drainage, the drainage that
comes off the back of the Regina site will be brought be storm sewer around the
north side of the building, brought out to a storm sewer that then will go up to
Ralston Creek, um, to the north. Um, along the front of the building, uh, there
will be, uh, drain tile that'll be put in to collect all the downspouts from this
building and ... and added into that storm sewer system. Uh, as Ion ... as well as
drainage, um, tile that'll be in behind the ... the retaining walls to collect any of the
seepage or any groundwater issues that'll be behind the drain, or behind those
retaining walls.
Dobyns: Matt, I had some questions for Ron. Do you want to ... we're still...
Hayek: I think it's a good ... I think now is the time you need to ask `em because...
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Dobyns: Okay. All right.
Hayek: ...before the public hearing is either closed or continued.
Dobyns: Uh, and ... and Ron, I'm not talking about a, like a major rain event. I realize a
five - incher, all of our basements get flooded. I'm talking about like a one to two -
inch rainfall. My concern about the Regina athletic field is that it falls off into
the, uh, Ralston Creek drainage basin, three different areas. Two of those areas
are just right in Hickory Hill Park. This is the one area that I think is more
sensitive. Um, and when I went out there yesterday, um, that's a significant
amount of flow, um, and I guess I'm more of a biologist and I think of bio -mass
as something that really controls floods in the best way. The trees there on the
south side of the property are very tall with I assume a fairly extensive root
system. Urn ... and I'm just ... it's just hard for me ... you know, I mean I guess the
devil's in the details, Ron. From an engineering standpoint, it seemed to me that a
significant water burden coming off the Regina track, coming down toward First
Avenue, I'm very concerned because that's a major entrance for Hickory Hill
Park on the east side, um, and that's where the water will go. It won't, I mean,
that's where it has gone, that's where it will go.
Knoche: Uh huh.
Dobyns: I mean, can you explain that water has to go somewhere. If there's a building that
has a fairly large footprint on the site, including the parking lot, um, it just seems
to me that a smaller structure and a different kind of zoning would leave more
available bio -mass to at least decrease the undermining of the flow. I guess... I
think plants are better than concrete. As an engineer, could you dissuade me?
Knoche: Well, I can try! Um, you know, I ... I think the situation that we look at here is,
um, you know, we have flow that comes into the system upstream and... and the
way that the system's designed currently with this building, it... it's going to pass
that flow through the site and... and push it down into the water shed. Um, we're
...we're dealing with the same amount of water that ... that is there today. Um,
and with the way the system's designed, it's actually going to take more of that
water underground, versus it running, uh, across the surface. And ... and put it to
the stream corridor sooner. Urn ... with the way that the Ralston Creek basin is
established, um, there's a detention basin in ... in Hickory Hill Park and ... and that
basin was sized such to take any of the runoff and ... and basically be the ... the
detention, um, for this area.
Dobyns: That's down river from the east entrance.
Knoche: It ... it is. It is down river.
Dobyns: Okay.
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Knoche: Um, you know, but the system that's in place, as it's designed, will ... will put the
water into the system, uh, without it going overland like it does today.
Dobyns: So water driven deep is water that goes faster into the (both talking)
Knoche: Correct.
Dobyns: ...creek drainage basin. And how is that better than water that is slowly allowed
to go there?
Knoche: Well it ... actually it ... there's some theory out there that if.. if you hold water back
it can actually create more flooding than ... than passing the water quicker.
Dobyns: Theory.
Knoche: Theory.
Dobyns: We feel really good about that theory?
Knoche: Yes I do!
Dobyns: Okay.
Knoche: I do! And ... and that's the reason behind the larger detention basins that we have
is, um, you know, there's Scott Park basin and ... and also this basin, as ... you
know, if we can get this water into the creek system and get it to the detention
basin, it...it is better than trying to hold water back to have more water fall on top
of it actually raising the flooding that could occur.
Dobyns: You know you're speaking against everything I've ever thought lovingly about
wetlands.
Knoche: (laughs)
Dobyns: So ... okay.
Payne: So was this the same ... idea that was on the lot to the south with the drainage and
it just doesn't function properly or ... is it not sized properly?
Knoche: I can't ... I can't speak to the site to the south. I ... I did not review that one. Um,
but ... but I know based on, you know, the plan that's in place here, I mean, I think
this is a ... it's a sound plan for this site.
Hayek: So I have a question about, uh, the ... might lay some context ... in terms of, you
know, what the decision is or why ... why we're going through this exercise, and
maybe this is more for ... for Planning, but I mean, this was zoned RM -12 year or
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two ago, whenever that was, um, and but for the critical slopes issue, is this
something that could be built as of right?
Dilkes: I ... I think what can be built as of right is, um ... there was a CZA that went with
the last rezoning and so what can be built as of right is ... that 16 -unit building that
was a conceptual plan attached to that CZA, assuming compliance with the, um,
sensitive areas ordinance. So the focus ... to ... for this decision is on compliance
with the sensitive areas ordinance.
Hayek: Right.
Payne: So the OPD...
Dilkes: That's what the overlay zoning is. It's (both talking)
Payne: It's to ... so it will comply with the ordinance.
Dilkes: Right, and the reason why the sensitive areas rezoning is required is because of
the protected slopes. There's been reference to woodlands, but... but... but that's
not at issue in terms of our sensitive areas ordinance. I know there are general
statements about that in the, um, Comprehensive Plan, but ... but with respect to
this rezoning, the issue that we're talking about is the protection of the ... the
slopes.
Davidson: It's actually protection of critical slopes.
Dilkes: Of critical slopes.
Throgmorton: Maybe I'm just slow, but I still don't understand what that means in terms of what
Mr. Miller could do by right. If...if we chose to deny, the rezoning be ... because
of the super - majority requirement, if (both talking) that's the case. What could
Mr. Miller do by right?
Dilkes: Let me back up for a minute. A super- majority requirement does not give you the
right to make a ... whatever decision you want. Okay. The issue before you is
whether... there is compliance with the sensitive areas ordinance, and in this case
whether the slopes are protected as required by the sensitive areas ordinance. And
so what he can do as a matter of right is what he can do under the zoning that you
already approved, assuming he can comply with the sensitive areas ordinance.
Payne: So the CZA then, those things that are put on him with the CZA is what makes it
so that he is complying, and that's why we're ... we need to have the CZA so he
does comply.
Dilkes: Right. That that's... that's, I mean ... well, and ... and in addition to the placement
of the building and the buffering and the ... what, etc., that's required with the
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slopes. What I don't think you can do in this rezoning is attach any condition that
you want to that is unrelated to the protection of the slopes.
Hayek: Because that was already done.
Dilkes: Because that was already done. That was a decision that was already made.
Hayek: (laughter and several talking) ...questions for our stoic - looking staff out there.
Champion: I think I still under ... I think I understand the water situation. So it's going to be
collected faster than it would naturally fall. Is that correct?
Knoche: Cor ... it ... it'll be collected and it'll flower quicker than what it would over land.
Champion: Okay. Then it's going to flow into the reservoir area (both talking)
Knoche: ...to Ralston Creek and then (both talking) down... downstream (both talking)
Dobyns: ...tiling I think, Connie, and tiling is sort of like... controls, makes water flow
through what was once a wet field, makes it a dryer field, I guess! I mean, it's...
Champion: No, that's right. I ... I've lived by a stream they did that to at one time.
Dobyns: Yeah.
Champion: (mumbled)
Throgmorton: I ... I have to say I'm a little puzzled by, uh, what you said, Ron, about the ... the
flow of water. I ... it seems to me the way you described the, uh ... the ... how the
flow of water would be engineered, is that it would increase the likelihood of
flash flooding on the portion of Ralston Creek above the detention basin. So why
is that not correct?
Knoche: It ... it, the ... the amount of flow that we're talking is ... is a ... is a small amount of
what actually flows in Ralston Creek. So it ... it, you know, in order for it to ... to
create a flash flood, it would ... it would have to be much more water than what
this site is going to create.
Throgmorton: Okay, because relative to the size (both talking)
Knoche: Relative to the size of the drainage area, correct.
Throgmorton: Okay. A ... a second question I'd like to ... I think I have to ask Eleanor but ... but
maybe, Jeff, you could hop in on it. I'm not sure. Um ... actually it really is an
Eleanor thing. I ... I'm wondering about liability. So I asked you this question by
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email a while back, uh, earlier in the day. Who would be liable if the retain ... if
the proposed retaining wall fails?
Dilkes: No one if there's no negligence. Um, if there was negligence, then that would
likely be sorted out by the property owner and the engineer, but certainly not the
City.
Throgmorton: Well, yeah, that's helpful, you know, and I wasn't really trying to pin it on the
city, just you know would it be the developer, Mr. Miller, or would it be...
Dilkes: No.
Throgmorton: ... the structural engineers, would it be the staff, you know (laughs) us...
Dilkes: Well first of all, I mean, I think it's important to remember that just because
something fails does not mean that there's an associated liability. There has to be
a showing of negligence, and I ... certainly don't have the expertise to make that
conclusion.
Throgmorton: Okay. That's helpful. Thank you.
Hayek: Other questions from Council of staff or of anyone else?
Dobyns: Matt, before we end the public hearing, I forgot. I did speak with Ann Freerks,
the Chair of Planning and Zoning regarding these issues about water flow, as
well. I forgot to mention that.
Hayek: Okay, can ... you may need to disclose more of the conversation.
Dobyns: Uh, discussed the issues of water flow and whether it met criteria for a sensitive
area.
Dilkes: Okay, yeah. That's fine. Just.. just a reminder that the reason for the ex parte
disclosure is not simply to say you had the conversation, but to give the applicant
the opportunity to respond.
Dobyns: I know! I just forgot.
Throgmorton: So I want to ask Eleanor another question, which I also asked you by email...
Dilkes: Uh huh.
Throgmorton:... and I think given what you said I know the answer but, uh, I want to ask it
anyhow.
Dilkes: Uh huh.
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Throgmorton: Uh, as a condition for approving the rezoning, could we require a reduction in the
proposed number of housing units within the building? In other words ... in other
words, reduce the envelope of the building that (both talking)
Dilkes: I ... I think, yeah, what I've ... what, my opinion would be that if you can show a
connection to protection of the ... of the slopes, urn ... and I think that requires an
analysis of the details of the sensitive areas ordinance, um...
Dobyns: So, Eleanor, if I feel that the problem is the water flow, but I think the slope
stability is not a problem, then I can't vote against it? I mean, my concern is not
so much the, um, stability of the ... the slope caving in.
Dilkes: I have the sensitive areas ordinance in front of me. And its... this... this is not, you
know, when we're talking about a sensitive areas rezoning, it is not a typical, uh,
rezoning of going from residential to commercial, or ... or single - family to ... to
multi - family. Where the ... the Council has a significant amount of discretion, um,
to make that land use decision. We are talking about a very specific... overlay
rezoning that ... that is, um, required because of the technical requirements of the
sensitive areas ordinance. Um, and while I know because if I look at the sensitive
ordinance it talks about ... um ... one of the purposes of regulating what people can
do on slopes is to minimize flooding, landslides, and mudslides, i.e., there's water
involved there. Um ... uh, stoil ... soil instability, erosion, etc., in my ... non-
technical mind, that involves water. But I can't tell you, I mean, I can't ... you
know, if you... if you and the engineers (both talking) and the planners can find a
reason why, urn ... the condition you want to impose, or why you want to deny it,
is because it's out of compliance with the sensitive areas ordinance, or it doesn't
contain a condition that would protect the slopes, then I think that's problematic.
Dobyns: Okay. All right. Got it, thank you.
Dilkes: The... the... the point in time in which it would have made sense to ... to put the
brakes on on this particular lot would have been when you were talking about a
rezoning to RS ... to RM -12 from RS -5. You would have had considerable
discretion, um ... uh, that I don't think you have at this point in time.
Champion: It would be a taking.
Hayek: Okay. Where is everyone?
Champion: I'm ... I'll support Planning and Zoning.
Payne: I will.
Throgmorton: I don't see sufficient grounds to oppose what Planning and Zoning recommended.
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Hayek: Okay.
Dobyns: Based on what I just heard, I agree. I would support Planning and Zoning.
Hayek: Okay.
Dobyns: Cause I don't want to go (mumbled)
Hayek: Okay.
Dilkes: I'm ... I mean, if you ... if you want to defer this and have the, you know, to figure
out what that connection would be, you're certainly willing to do that, but ... but
you have to have a connection... to the protection of the slopes.
Hayek: Well and I think ... I think to take that step would mean us ... essentially
substituting our judgment for that of staff (several talking) um ... which reviewed
these very issues and, uh, vetted them very carefully. I mean, that ... that's the
process of...of the planned development, um, protocol and ... and ... and that's
what, you know, and I'll probably get into this in my comments. I probably
should stop talking here but ... but we would essentially be taking issue with the
vetting process that occurred at the staff level and subsequently with P &Z.
Dobyns: And I ... and I dis ... disagree with the concept of water, but my sense is that that
disagreement was relevant to a... an earlier vote. From what I can tell.
Dilkes: I ... I can't answer that question.
Dobyns: Well if you can't answer it, I sure can't (laughter)
Dilkes: Well I'm just ... I'm talking about the technical issues of water and slopes and that
(both talking)
Hayek: No, I ... Ri ... but, Rick, I think you, I mean, if you don't buy this ... opinion that the
water and erosion and slopes issues...
Dobyns: Yeah.
Hayek: ...are addressed adequately, then that is a legitimate reason to vote against.
Dobyns: Okay.
Dilkes: Right!
Dobyns: All right.
Champion: But you have to be able to prove you're right.
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Hayek: But if you think there are too many units or the color's not right, I mean, those are
the things that Eleanor is telling us we can't take into (several talking)
Dilkes: Right, or for instance (both talking) you don't like that the trees ... trees are
coming down, when we're not talking about woodland protection here. We're
talking about (both talking)
Dobyns: I think I'll be out there, you know, shoveling the, you know, flotsam off that east
entrance when the water flows over it, so I'm going to vote no I guess.
Hayek: Okay, and this is first consideration. I mean, closing this public hearing will lock
in the CZA, but it's first consideration. So...
Dilkes: Yep.
Hayek: ...up or down at a subsequent reading. But I ... what I'm seeing is six people in
favor and two ... and one against.
Dobyns: And one biologist.
Hayek: Okay.
Throgmorton: So, he ... help me understand the ... the next steps. So if the vote is 6 —1 in favor of
the conditional rezoning. Then we do it again two weeks later. If people can
provide, other people can provide compelling arguments ... a ... about how the
conditions will not sufficiently protect, um...
Champion: The slopes.
Throgmorton: The slopes.
Dilkes: The reason why we're here.
Throgmorton: Yeah, right. Uh, then ... votes could change.
Champion: Uh huh.
Dilkes: There needs (several talking) there needs to be a six person... person vote every
time. Three times.
Hayek: But why don't you explain what it ... what ... what closing the public hearing does
to this, to the Conditional Zoning Agreement?
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Dilkes: Closing the public hearing though, I mean ... we can't add any more conditions to
the Conditional Zoning Agreement. Conditional Zoning Agreement is a done
deal at the close of the public hearing.
Throgmorton: You would just (both talking)
Hayek: You could vote against it.
Dilkes: You could vote against it and then the whole thing (mumbled)
Hayek: ... change it.
Dilkes: Right!
Throgmorton: Would, uh, would ot ... members of the public or the, uh, Mr. Miller, the
developer, have an opportunity to submit further information, even though the,
uh, the public hearing is closed.
Dilkes: Oh I think you always allow that opportunity.
Champion: Yeah, we always have!
Throgmorton: Just trying to be clear about that.
Dilkes: Yeah.
Throgmorton: Okay.
Hayek: Okay, I'm still sensing 6 —1 here. Okay. I'm going to close the public hearing at
this time. (bangs gavel)
2. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Mims: Move first consideration.
Champion: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Champion. Discussion?
Mims: Well I think there's, you know, certainly legitimate concerns with this, um, and I
think with ... with where we are tonight, and as legal staff, Eleanor has, you know,
I think very clearly explained the choice we have tonight is in terms of whether
we think this, you know, protects the sensitive slopes and um ... I guess my bias in
being an engineer by training, I'm going to take the engineer's (laughter)
(mumbled) Um, I think we've got two, you know, excellent firms that have done
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some of this work and urn ... I'm going to feel that I have to, you know, go with
their recommendations and what they feel the ... the case is here and support this.
Hayek: Yeah, I ... I will too. I mean, as we discussed, the only reason we're having this
item on our agenda this evening is because the topography triggered this sensitive
areas ordinance, uh, sensitive areas review process, um, which requires staff to vet
the project for compliance with that ordinance, the slopes, everything else. Um,
and ... and that ... that process, play it out as ... as anticipated by the ordinance, and
you know, the ... this sensitive areas ordinance is not 50 years old. It's probably
20 years old. I don't know what it is, but it ... but it was ... it was put in place
because of bad experiences in other parts of the community (both talking)
Champion: Very bad experience!
Hayek: Right, and we know which ones those, some of those are, and ... and ... and so
it...it...it triggers this heightened review, which is exactly the process we went
through. Um, and ... and staff reviewed it, has ... has approved it, Planning and
Zoning, uh, reviewed it and approved it 7 -0 with ... with quite a lot of, uh,
consideration, you know, and you can take issue with the engineer supplied by
the ... by the applicant but ... but the engineer in question is ... is a highly reputable
one in the state of Iowa, um, and ... and their professional livelihood is on the line
when they ... when they sign off on this, and if it does not go well there are going
to be issues for the developer and/or anyone he hires, but for... for me to
personally go against all of that process, um, is not something I'm comfortable
doing because I think the process has played out as it should, and we gave this a
really strict, you know, a high degree of scrutiny. So ... that's where I am.
Dickens: I have no problem with it. I did walk the property more than once just to ... just to
check the slope and everything and based on what was built next door, this
property looks like it's much better suited to be built on than the property that was
next to it, which is not of a big concern but ... I'm going to go with it.
Hayek: Okay.
Throgmorton: I ... I guess I say, um ... my sense is that this, the proposed project is not...
consistent with the underlying purposes and objectives of the central ... of the
sensitive areas ordinance, which I helped, uh, enact 20 years ago. But, I think it
does comply as best I can tell with the literal, legal meaning, uh, essence of the
ordinance. So given the advice, uh, from Eleanor, I just don't see how we have
sufficient legal grounds to vote against it at this moment in time. So I will vote
yes.
Hayek: Further discussion? Roll call, please. Uh, first consideration passes 6 -1; Dobyns
in the negative.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
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Champion: So moved.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Champion, seconded by Payne. Discussion? All those in favor say
aye. Opposed say nay. Motion carries 7 -0.
Throgmorton: Could we possibly take a (both talking)
Hayek: Yeah, we're going to take a 10- minute break. We have a lot to do ... (BREAK)
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ITEM 4d USES ALLOWED IN THE INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL (CI -1)
ZONE — AMENDING TITLE 14: ZONING TO BROADEN THE USES
ALLOWED IN THE INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL (CI -1) ZONE.
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Hayek: This is a public hearing. The public hearing is open. (bangs gavel)
Davidson: Last fall the City Manager appointed a committee of both City folks and private
sector folks to take a look at the commercial zones in the Iowa City Zoning
Ordinance. I think we have one member of the committee, Mr. Siders from
Southgate Development and we appreciate, uh, the participation of all ... all the
members. Uh, we took a look, uh, the ... the idea was to try and see if we could
make our commercial zones, uh, easier to use, uh, maybe give a little bit more
flexibility to property owners and certainly from our perspective on this end, uh,
keep from having to bring so many potential CC -2, uh, CI -1, uh, type rezonings to
you, particularly in the Highway 1 corridor. That's where we've seen so many of
these, as that corridor has changed in characteristics over time. Um, and if
I ... I'm, because of the lateness of the evening going to go very quickly. If there's
anything you'd like me to elaborate on I'd be happy to do that. Uh, basically the
recommendation to you was to, um ... not allow, uh, the CC -2 zone to be expanded
to allow CI -1 uses. The CI -1 zone is the zone that has a lot of...of maybe less
desirable type uses, certainly essential in terms of what we have in the city, but
with outdoor storage, uh, noise, uh, the ... those kinds of things associated with
them, so the determination was to not increase the flexibility in the CC -2 zone to
allow those uses. But the reverse that we would recommend to you, and that is
that, uh, specifically in the CI -I zone it be expanded to allow restaurants and bars,
medical and dental offices, personal services — that is banks, salons, dry cleaners,
laundry, similar — hotels and motels, and there was a lot of discussion of hotels
and motels, but ultimately was determined to recommend that to you. Religious
and private group assembly and sale ... sales-oriented retail. So, uh, your action
tonight, well in the subsequent readings, would ... would allow those uses, and
basically we would not have to come to you with a rezoning now because there
would be flexibility within the zone, and it certainly was acknowledged that it's
going to require additional due - diligence by a property owner to, if.. if they're the
first person to locate in that zone, they need to understand that those may be less
desirable uses could also locate in the zone, and that would just be something that
they would ... would need to stay on top of. Um, just real quickly, we also are
suggesting to you that, um, the ... the, uh, that we basically go to property owners
in the corridor where we feel the commercial zoning is maybe not correct, uh, and
say .... and ... and offer to them a City- initiated rezoning if they would like. That is
something that we intend to do in the upcoming year, but the action before you
tonight is just the ... the CI -1, CC -2, uh, changes that I just outlined. Any
questions?
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Payne: So that would, I mean, in today's world if...one of those ... I'm going to say
undesirable, cause that's what ... the term that you used, uses wanted to build next
to something, they would ask for a rezoning. So there would be some vetting of
that...
Davidson: Right.
Payne: ...and the public would get to ... the neighbor next door would get to come and
say ... I don't agree with this for these reasons.
Davidson: Right.
Payne: This would eliminate that vetting and just allow them.
Davidson: Yes. Yes. It would. It would allow the additional uses that are not currently
allowed, other than by rezoning.
Mims: I'll wait.
Davidson: And it ... I ... I will just add ... it seemed to be the feeling of certainly the ... some
individuals on the private sector side, that the market sorts those things out. That
you... if... if you have property that has high visibility, uh, that is located on a
high - traffic corridor, that it will be priced such that CC -2 type uses will be what,
uh, what locates there. Typically there is a higher price for CC -2 property than
for CI -1 property. Um, and that that'd be sorted out by the market. But, I think
it's good for us to be aware that it will require additional due diligence by a
property owner to understand that those uses with outdoor storage and noise and
that could locate in that zone if somebody ... so desired.
Champion: (several talking) ...no, you couldn't put an outdoor storage there.
Davidson: Sure! Ina CI -1 zone you could.
Champion: Oh... oh!
Payne: But, what you're saying is the cost to the property would be such that it probably
wouldn't be profitable (both talking)
Davidson: That seemed to be the feeling. And I think was part of the recommendation to
you.
Hayek: Any other questions for Jeff? Okay. This is a public hearing. Does anyone...
wish to bring anything to the Council's attention? Okay. Are we inclined to go
with Planning and Zoning?
Champion: I'm going to, but I might not the next time. I really need to think about this.
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Hayek: Well, then we should have a little bit of discussion now.
Mims: Well ... I was going to wait but if we need to do it now. The thing that ... that I
think works on this is where you're giving the ... the most flexibility is in the
current zoning that is ... if you will, using Jeff's term, the ... the less desirable kinds
of businesses so you're allowing other kinds of businesses in there. It's not like...
Champion: Oh! It's just the opposite then (both talking)
Mims: Yeah, it's not like you're taking a more restrictive zone and letting outdoor
storage and ... and those kinds of businesses come into there. So ... you know, if
I've got a dental office or restaurant or something and I want to go into this other
zone...
Champion: It would have to get a rezoning.
Mims: Right now I would, but under this I could go there but I just would need to be
cognizant of the fact that there might be ... an outdoor storage type of place that
(both talking) locate next to me later.
Champion: (both talking) Okay. I get it. I get it.
Hayek: It's essentially adding a less intensive list of possible uses to (both talking)
Champion: ...just the opposite in my mind. You know, it's late! Okay, I get it. Okay, I'll
support it! Thank you, Sue.
Mims: Yes (mumbled)
Dobyns: Michelle, what were you getting at?
Payne: The same thing but like Jeff said you could be the first one there and would you
really realize what else could go there is the question. I mean, does City staff say,
`Do you realize this, this, or this could build next doorT And, you ... you don't
have that review anymore. You're counting on somebody else to tell them what
could go there. I mean, it's...
Mims: Better look at zoning. That's ... their money and their responsibility. That's (both
talking)
Payne: I ... I don't disagree with that, but you know ... we have res ... we just listened to a
whole bunch of residential people say something against rezoning of a corner that
is two arterial streets. I mean, when you bought a house there you didn't think
that this was two arterial streets? There could be commercial there someday? I
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mean ... it's everybody's responsibility, yes, I agree but ... people sometimes don't
think into the future.
Hayek: Right. But ... but it's already, we're talking about (several talking) already
commercial (several talking) Yeah.
Payne: I'm just comparing it to thinking about the future when you buy a lot. And what
you're going to put on it. And... sometimes people don't...
Hayek: Okay.
Payne: But I'm still ... still supportive (laughs) (both talking)
Hayek: Okay. Okay, I'm going to close the public hearing. (bangs gavel)
2. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Mims: Move first consideration.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Payne. Discussion? I thank, uh, Glenn and the
other members of the Ad Hoc Committee. This is a good product and... and I
think it also just strengthens the communication between City Hall and ... and the
community. And I ... I'll support it for (mumbled) this is good to do so on the
merits! Further discussion? Roll call, please. First consideration passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 4e STREET PAVEMENT WIDTH REQUIREMENTS FOR
INSTITUTIONAL USES — AMENDING TITLE 14: ZONING TO DELETE
THE SPECIFIC STREET WIDTH REQUIREMENT FOR DAYCARE
USES, GENERAL EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES, AND
RELIGIOUS/PRIVATE GROUP ASSEMBLY USES.
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Hayek: This is a public hearing. The public hearing is open. (bangs gavel)
Davidson: Uh, this is a zoning code text amendment that we feel has reached a point that we
are prepared to recommend it to you, uh, as the Mayor indicated there's an
existing, uh ... um, part of the zoning ordinance which says that, um, daycare
centers, uh, private group assembly uses, and general education facilities, uh,
must be on an arterial street, a collector street, or a street with a pavement width
wider than 28 -feet, and that's the, uh, provision that we're suggesting changing,
that you eliminate the 28 -foot wide, uh, provision. Uh, basically what that does
right now is a daycare center or one of those uses cannot locate on many of our
local, uh, local streets that have a width less than 28 -feet. Um, and what we are
seeing and ... and has motivated us to bring this to you, is there are a lot of
churches that have gone out and are now being suggested for repurposing to, uh,
daycare centers, uh, and many of them are in residential neighborhoods. Now
what it doesn't do is automatically approve something on a street less than that.
These things still have to go through the Board of Adjustment. The Board of
Adjustment on a case -by -case basis will determine if that street is adequate, but
the Board has not had the ability to do that with the existing provision.
Champion: Okay.
Hayek: Thanks, Jeff. Anyone from the public? Okay, I'll close the public hearing.
(bangs gavel)
2. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Payne: Move first consideration.
Dobyns: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by Dobyns. Discussion? Roll call, please. First
consideration passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 4f BILLION AUTO WETLAND AMENDMENT —
CONDITIONALLY REZONING 7.13 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED
AT 2845 MORMON TREK BLVD IN THE INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL
(CI -1) ZONE. (REZ13- 00018) (SECOND CONSIDERATION) [Discussion
only at formal meeting]
Payne: Move second consideration.
Dickens: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by Dickens. Discussion? Anyone from the public?
Maas: Um, hello, my name is Liz Maas. I live at 620 Ronalds Street, and I'm not going
to talk about breastfeeding this time. (laughter) Um, I'm here tonight to, um,
advocate for the use of Roundup, which if you know me sounds maybe kind of
strange coming out of my mouth, but in this particular instance we're not going to
be using the Roundup as a broad spectrum, all over the entire site. We're going to
be using it as a spot spray in the areas where's there's an invasive species that has
overtaken the wetland area. And this is an ... an alternative to going in and cutting
down and removing all of the soil from a functioning detention basin where there
is already some existing good vegetation. Of course if you go in and you cut soil
out, you have erosion, you have compaction of soils, you lose function of
the ... the site as it's designed and as it's functioning now. Reed canary grass is a
common invasive species. It's in the right -of -way on... on the, um, at the
interstate, at 218, which flows in and through this area. So ultimately if you went
in and did all of this excavation work you would have that reed canary grass
coming back in over time anyway. So it'd kind of be silly, from my perspective.
I'd be happy to answer any of your questions.
Throgmorton: And, Liz, you're completely confident that the selective use of Roundup will not
harm other species located in that wetland, correct?
Maas: Uh, Roundup is a poison. That's what it does — it kills plants. Um, we will be
very careful with the Roundup that we use, and actually we won't be using a
Roundup. We'll be using an alternative chemical called Rodeo, which is as the
manufacturer certifies, safer to use with ... with water, around water bodies or
wetlands. So it's not, um, the classic Roundup that you think o£ It's a
glyphosate, but it's... designed the minute that it hits ... that it would come in
contact with water, it's supposed to become inert. Now I'm not a chemist and I
haven't evaluated it in a laboratory, so I cannot say unequivocally that it's not
going to do anything. Um, but I have used the product with good success. In
addition to the chemical we'll also be mowing and doing some light tilling to
disrupt the vegetation that we want to get rid of.
Champion: So you're not a biochemist.
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Maas: I'm not a biochemist. I'm an ecologist.
Champion: Well that's okay! But I have a kid who is (laughter) I asked him about this!
(laughs)
Maas: What'd they say?
Champion: He said it was fine. You could use it! Carefully!
Maas: Well ... well, carefully use and I don't mean to besmirch our farmers, but farmers
use Roundup every day on the field. And we have a lot of Roundup going, you
know, the majority of Roundup sold in the nation is sold to farmers in Iowa. So
the amount of Roundup that we're going to use and the quantity that we're going
to use it is going to be much less than what is spread throughout the state.
Hayek: Any other questions for Liz?
Champion: I really appreciate your coming.
Throgmorton: Yeah.
Maas: You're welcome!
Hayek: Any other cowboy terminology (laughter)
Maas: I think we're good! (laughs)
Hayek: Okay! Thank you for coming and you waited a long time to come before us!
Maas: That's all right. It was good to watch your show tonight! (laughter)
Hayek: Show! (laughter) Feels like one. Any further discussion, uh, among Council or
input from the audience? Okay. Roll call, please. Second consideration passes
7 -0.
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ITEM 4g OLDE TOWNE VILLAGE MIXED USE — CONDITIONALLY
REZONING APPROXIMATELY 1.12 ACRES OF PROPERTY,
LOCATED SOUTH OF ROCHESTER AVENUE ON THE EAST SIDE OF
EASTBURY DRIVE, FROM COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL (CC -2)
ZONE TO MIXED USE (MU) (REZ13- 00016) (SECOND
CONSIDERATION) [Discussion only at formal meeting]
Hayek: Expedited action is requested.
Mims: I move that the rule requiring that ordinances must be considered and voted on for
passage at two Council meetings prior to the meeting at which it is to be finally
passed be suspended, that the second consideration and vote be waived, and that
the ordinance be voted on for final passage at this time.
Champion: Second.
Hayek: Pass and adopt moved by Mims, seconded by Champion. Discussion? Any ex
parte (both talking)
Throgmorton: ... vote no on this.
Hayek: Okay. Any... communications to disclose from the first reading? Further
discussion? I'm sorry, I interrupted you there, Jim.
Throgmorton: Yep. I'm just going to vote no on ... on the condensing of the votes.
Hayek: Okay. Any other discussion on the ... issue itself?
Throgmorton: Oh, on the issue itself?
Hayek: I think we should take that up. Or do you want us to just limit it to...
Dilkes: No, you can!
Throgmorton: Ali! Well, I'd like to say a couple things about (clears throat) the issue itself then.
Uh, I ... last meeting I argued that the on- street parking should be changed to
parallel rather than head -in parking.
Hayek: Uh huh.
Throgmorton: And I did so because parallel on- street parking would be better for the residential
uses that are likely to take place in the building, and I think I kind of blathered
away and ... I'd like to be a little bit more clear about it, uh, and that it would be
better for pedestrian use of the area. So I asked Jeff, uh, Jeff Davidson to provide
me with the original CZA for Olde Towne Village, the one that was adopted in
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2001, signed by Frank Boyd of, uh, Clem Acres, the developer at that time, so...
uh, so I read the, uh, the CZA and it reads in part as follows, and I'll just quote.
"Any subdivision or site plan shall be designed to create a Main Street or town
square- styled commercial center. The commercial center shall be designed with a
pedestrian- orientation, incorporating such features as on- street parking, parking
lots behind buildings, minimal or no building set -back from sidewalks and upper
floor residential uses." So it seems to me that ... we need to give some meaning to
the term, to the phrase `pedestrian orientation.' In order to ... for that CZA to...
have real substance. Uh, so just kind of running out of room here on my text. I
can't read it. Urn ... I understand pedestrian orientation to mean that the area
needs to facilitate and encourage walking. That's what I take it to mean. That is,
to have trees, benches, public spaces, transit access, um... and parallel parking on
streets. Uh, along with parking in spaces behind the buildings. So... so those
(both talking)
Champion: Stop! (both talking) ...clarify something. Why is ... why do you think diagonal
parking is more pedestrian - friendly?
Throgmorton: It's not ... uh, I didn't say diagonal parking. I ... I said parallel parking on the
streets, so that the parking runs the direction of the street.
Champion: Okay, all right. Never mind. Thank you!
Throgmorton: Yeah. Uh, so I could blather on but I won't ... I'll try to stop right there. It just
seems to me that we need to be clear about what we mean by pedestrian
orientation in order for that CZA to have any meaning.
Hayek: Jeff, can you respond to ... the excerpts and what not?
Davidson: I put the diagram up here. Jim ... Jim had given me a heads -up that he was going
to raise this. This is the original concept plan that's attached to that CZA that Jim
was referring to.
Throgmorton: Right.
Davidson: And ... and obviously... the seven of you are the ones to ultimately ascertain the
degree of pedestrian accessibility, and ... and ... and frankly, the adherence to this
concept plan that's supposed to be adhered to. You know, basically these are the
buildings that are in place already. Blackstone's would be like right here, and you
know, the design is basically this. You've got the ... the parking lot here, uh, in
the front yard. That was something that was negotiated with the developer. This
is the vacant area right now. The two buildings that were under consideration in
your second consideration today are these two right here, so you can see, it
doesn't match exactly but it was felt by staff that it was in general compliance.
The degree of, you know, pedestrian accessibility and the other things that are
called out within this development it is ... a mix of uses connected by sidewalks
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that is gradually being built out in general conformance. That is staff's position.
Beyond that point, it's really up to your, you know, determination as to whether
or not, uh, you know, the degree of success that you feel is being implemented.
Payne: Jim, why do you think that parallel parking is more conducive to pedestrians
than...
Throgmorton: Makes it safer for pedestrians to ... they feel safer when they're walking next to
pedes ... uh, to ... to on ... parallel parking than when the cars are ... pointed straight
in.
Payne: But everybody gets out in the traffic then. When you get ... the driver gets out,
they're getting out in the traffic.
Throgmorton: No, no, not ... not if it's ... if the development is designed to enhance walkability, to
make it attractive and appealing for people to walk ... then you don't have that big
problem with traffic that you were just alluding to.
Payne: I ... this is a...
Markus: But the emphasis is on the pedestrian, and the pedestrian walkway with parallel
parking is clearly more pedestrian- friendly than head -in parking. If you... if you
followed what the CZA said, you move the buildings up to the property line.
You'd actually be, you know, moving the cars closer to that sidewalk with head -
in parking than you would with parallel parking.
Payne: That ... which I ... I agree with that but people are going to drive here. I mean,
it's... there's... that's just the fact. People are going to drive there, get out of their
car and walk. Most people aren't walking there.
Throgmorton: I don't know. How many households are located within a quarter mile of...of the
center of, uh, Olde Towne Village?
Davidson: I ... I ... I'm sorry, Jim, I would not ascertain a guess.
Throgmorton: But...it...it can be developed and it to a degree is being developed in a way that is
consistent with that kind of walkable orientation. Just ... a few more elements
need to be added like having on, uh, parallel parking on the street (laughs)
Davidson: And that was a concept that was discussed. It was the applicant's request to have
the head -in parking, the developer's request, just to refresh your memory, um...
the idea being, you know, these units have all of their required parking within the
units, but it was desired to provide some additional parking for this development,
and then probably more importantly for the marketing of this commercial area,
directly to the other side. That parking will assist with that marketing. This...
this parking will assist with that.
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Throgmorton: Can ... can you go back to the, uh, the other, um, the original CZA's site plan?
Champion: But the parking on the developed part of this ... area is (noises on mic) you drive
in ... I can't get the (mumbled) straight. (several talking)
Payne: Head -in parking.
Champion: Right! Head -in parking. So ... we've already made it pedestrian unfriendly.
Davidson: There's... there's a mix, Connie, of parallel parking and head -in parking in the
development right now.
Champion: Yeah, there is. That's what I mean.
Throgmorton: So, Jeff, I'm ... I'm looking at the map right now and ... and trying to compare it to
what's on the ground right now. So I ... I agree, it's generally... it's being
developed generally in conformance with that, so I don't have any objection to
that. But when I look at the, uh, the area that's empty right now, the s ... the
square that has those, uh, four ... those two u- shaped buildings.
Davidson: Right.
Throgmorton: On the ... on the eastern side right now there's a whole bunch of head -in parking,
and I don't see that on this particular design. What I think I see is parking in the
interior of that courtyard. Of that area ... right?
Davidson: That's correct.
Throgmorton: So I ... something's going awry there is what I'm trying to get at. That ... that
although the original intention seems to have been a pedestrian- oriented town
square kind of...kind of development, that step -by -step is slipping away from
that.
Champion: I don't know about that. I'll tell you part of the problem is, I mean I understand
what you're saying, is that parking right now when the center buildings are in
there, parking may become more obvious to people, but I bet if you ask ... 60 to
70% of the people who go there, they don't even know that parking is behind that
building. They don't know it! They think they have to park on the street.
Throgmorton: Well, they need to learn it's behind (laughs) the buildings. You know.
Payne: This ... this reminds me of a development in ... in Coralville but .... it's what they
call their downtown area. I don't know what it's really called. I mean, that part
in the middle looks exactly like it. It's head -in parking on the street out front, I
mean...
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Dickens: This street?
Payne: Yeah. Yep! I mean it...it looks very similar to that and ... I think it's (both
talking)
Markus: Well the other distinction is, it's first -floor commercial. Right?
Throgmorton: Out ... out there in Coralville, yes.
Payne: Yep.
Markus: In Coralville.
Hayek: Well, and potentially here. It's mixed, remember, it's ... it's built to commercial
specs on the first floor (several talking) The City's not ... I mean, as part of this
development, you know, the City didn't plan its own parking deck or surface
parking or anything of that nature.
Davidson: In condition with this development?
Hayek: Yes! And ... and are the sidewalks, I see them as 8 -feet on the plan, on ... in my
records. Is ... is 8 -feet the standard sidewalk width you would see...
Davidson: Yeah, looks like those are 8 -feet, Matt.
Hayek: Okay. Is that standard? I mean, regardless of (both talking)
Davidson: No, that's not the standard in residential areas — 5 feet.
Champion: But it's the standard in commercial areas.
Davidson: In commercial areas, at least 8 -feet.
Champion: Now how ... how wide are sidewalks downtown? Like on Washington Street.
Davidson: I think we have a minimum of 12 everywhere, 12 or wider.
Champion: So quite a bit smaller.
Throgmorton: So a truly walkable area... gives people good reasons to walk. All right, that
means it has to be ... have a mix of uses, but also be attractive. It's got to be safe,
it's got to be interesting, you know, those kinds of things, and ... and if you just
have head -in parking and the front slab of a building, that's not interesting.
Nobody's going to want to walk it, except just as you described, Michelle, just
...just when they drive out there, park, get out, go to whatever it is they want to
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do, and then get back in their car and leave. That's not a walkable town square,
Main Street kind of development.
Payne: And I think it will become that as more things get built there. You will go there
to do more than one thing, more than just to eat at Blackstone's and walk over to
Dairy Queen. It just takes more development.
Throgmorton: Okay. Well I ... I've made my pitch.
Hayek: Yeah, I know. And, Jim, I appreciate your, where you're coming from on this.
guess I'm just not convinced that this is a less walkable approach but ... um...
Champion: Well, I think he's right, it isn't but I ... I kind of agree with Michelle in the sense
that I don't see people walking to this development. I see them driving there, and
then getting out of their cars, which is a good thing.
Hayek: Well there will be both, obviously.
Mims: Right.
Champion: Yeah.
Payne: Eventually, yeah.
Markus: There's some of us that walk there now. (laughter)
Champion: What do you do, live next door? I'm just joking! (laughs)
Hayek: Pretty close.
Markus: Quite a ways away.
Champion: It is quite a ways away. I mean, I ... I think he's right about the parking. I think
the ... on-street parking is ... is much more pedestrian friendly. Especially if the
sidewalk is only 8 -feet. If it was 12 -feet I don't think it'd make any difference.
Hayek: Okay. So ... any further discussion on this? Let's get a roll call, please.
Throgmorton: Thanks for listening, incidentally.
Champion: No, it's a good point.
Mims: I move that the ordinance be finally adopted at this time.
Champion: Second.
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Hayek: Pass and adopt moved by Mims, seconded by Champion. Discussion? Roll call,
please. Uh, pass and adopt passes 6 -1, Throgmorton in the negative.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Payne: So moved.
Mims: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by Mims. Discussion? All those in favor say aye.
Opposed say nay. Motion carries 7 -0.
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ITEM 4j AMENDMENT TO MODIFY AREA SPACING BETWEEN
DRINKING ESTABLISHMENTS - AMENDING TITLE 14: ZONING
CODE TO MODIFY THE REGULATIONS REGARDING THE SPACING
OF DRINKING ESTABLISHMENTS SO THAT THE 500 -FOOT
SPACING RULE WOULD ONLY APPLY TO THE UNIVERSITY
IMPACT AREA AND THE RIVERFRONT CROSSINGS DISTRICT.
(PASS AND ADOPT)
Payne: Move adoption.
Dickens: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by Dickens. Discussion?
Mims: I will vote no again, not that I'm against what we're doing, except that I think
there should be some restrictions in place in these other areas.
Hayek: Further discussion? Roll call, please. Item passes 6 -1, Mims in the negative.
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ITEM 4k WALDEN WOOD PART 10 — APPROVING PRELIMINARY
PLAT. (SUB12- 00014)
Dobyns: Approve. Move approval.
Hayek: Moved by Dobyns...
Payne: Second!
Hayek: ... seconded by Payne. Discussion? Jeff!
Davidson: I ... you had some discussion of this at your work session. Is there anything
further?
Champion: No.
Hayek: Is there anyone from the audience? Further discussion by Council? Roll call,
please.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Payne: So moved.
Dobyns: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by Dobyns. Discussion? All those in favor say aye.
Opposed say nay. Motion carries 7 -0, and item passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 41 EASTBROOK FLATS ADDITION — APPROVING
PRELIMINARY PLAT (SUB13- 00011)
Dobyns: Move approval.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Dobyns, seconded by Payne. Discussion?
Davidson: I just wanted to alert you, this ... this was formerly known as Summit Ridge, uh,
when it was brought to you at the zoning. It's now known as Eastbrook Flats, the
flats part refers to the type of apartment unit that they are planning. Um, these are
the two lots, remember one was annexed in, uh, and this is the subdivision you are
creating. Uh, you can see the street that will provide access to the lot. And you
remember what was planned here is two multi - family buildings, uh, the zoning
would allow up to 59 units. We don't know exactly yet how many that will be.
That'll be a site plan issue. But basically you're creating this lot to allow for the
construction of those buildings, and establishing this street for access here and
access adjacent. Any questions?
Hayek: This, um ... we saw a plat ... last time that showed future development, and
probably outside this area and therefore maybe outside of the discussion of
Council this evening, but is ... is this a different...
Davidson: I don't recall. This one coming to you ... last time, Matt.
Dilkes: Do you see a concept plan attached to the rezoning?
Hayek: I thought we did and maybe it wasn't the (both talking)
Davidson: That was a couple of meetings ago (several talking) That was a couple of
meetings ago and I think I emphasized to you at that time, they're not limited to
building those buildings. It was just a concept.
Champion: Right. Oh, right, right!
Davidson: This'll go through design review. Those buildings will.
Champion: Right.
Hayek: Okay. Okay. Thanks, Jeff. Any questions for Jeff? Any further discussion?
Roll call, please. Passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 4m BROOKWOOD POINTE THIRD TO FIFTH ADDITION —
APPROVING PRELIMINARY PLAT. (SUB13- 00013)
Mims: Move approval.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved b Mims, seconded by Payne. Discussion?
Davidson: Uh, this is a preliminary plat that expired and so, uh, needs to be reupped. Uh,
here you see the location, uh, Sycamore Street and Vesti Lane, Terrapin Drive.
This is parts one and two, which are, um... are already platted. Uh, and then this
shows the approximate layout. We have connectivity to the south, to the west, to
the north, uh, and these are parts three through five. Single - family subdivision.
Any questions?
Hayek: Thanks, Jeff. Any questions for Jeff? Anyone from the audience? Further
Council discussion? It's nice to ... a nice southside development.
Champion: It is nice!
Hayek: See if he needs to weigh in here. (laughter) Okay.
Champion: Okay. Great!
Hayek: Roll call, please. Passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 5 UNIVERCITY SALE — 416 SOUTH GOVERNOR - AUTHORIZING
CONVEYANCE OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME LOCATED AT 416
SOUTH GOVERNOR STREET.
a. PUBLIC HEARING
Hayek: This is a public hearing. The public hearing is open. (bangs gavel) Public
hearing is closed. (bangs gavel)
b. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION
Mims: Move the resolution.
Dobyns: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Dobyns. Discussion?
Mims: Just nice to see another one!
Hayek: Every time!
Champion: (mumbled)
Hayek: Roll call, please. Passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 6. UNIVERCITY SALE — 661 SOUTH GOVERNOR RESOLUTION
AUTHORIZING CONVEYANCE OF A SINGLE FAMILY HOME
LOCATED AT 661 SOUTH GOVERNOR STREET.
a. PUBLIC HEARING
Hayek: This is a public hearing. The public hearing is open. (bangs gavel) Uh, this
likewise is a, uh, successful project through the UniverCity Neighborhood
Partnership program! Public hearing is closed. (bangs gavel)
b. CONSIDER A RESOLUTION
Throgmorton: Move the resolution.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Throgmorton, seconded by Payne. Discussion? Roll call, please.
Passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 8. PARKING LOT HOURS - AMENDING TITLE 9, MOTOR VEHICLES
AND TRAFFIC, CHAPTER 5, PARKING METER ZONES AND
PARKING LOTS, SECTION 4, USE OF PARKING LOTS: TO ASSIGN
THE CITY MANAGER, OR DESIGNEE, THE RESPONSIBILITY AND
AUTHORITY TO SET THE DAYS AND TIMES FOR WHICH A FEE
MAY BE CHARGED, AS WELL AS THE LENGTH OF TIME A
VEHICLE MAY BE PARKED, IN CITY LOTS. (FIRST
CONSIDERATION)
Champion: Move first (both talking)
Mims: Move first (both talking). Move first consideration.
Champion: Second (both talking)
Payne: Second! (both talking)
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Champion. Discussion? Sounds like a good idea
to me (unable to hear person away from mic) Further discussion? Roll call,
please. Item passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 9. PERSONAL PROPERTY IN THE DOWNTOWN - AMENDING TITLE 8,
ENTITLED "POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED
"MISCELLANEOUS OFFENSES," TO LIMIT STORING PERSONAL
PROPERTY ON RIGHT OF WAY, TO PROHIBIT SOLICITING BY
PARKING METERS AND AT CITY PLAZA ENTRANCES, TO
PROHIBIT LYING ON ELEVATED PLANTERS, TO PROHIBIT LYING
ON BENCHES DURING CERTAIN HOURS, AND TO RESTRICT USING
ELECTRICAL OUTLETS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Mims: Move first consideration.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by, uh, Mims, seconded by Payne. Discussion? We're going to get a
...we're going to get a, uh ... presentation from staff, and I know there are a
number of people in the audience who would like to address the Council, and
we'll allow time for that, of course. And then we'll close it down for City
Council discussion.
Fruin: All right, good evening, uh, I'm Geoff Fruin with the City Manager's office, uh,
here and uh, what I thought I'd do is, uh, walk you through some of the regulatory
changes that, uh, staff is recommending, uh, for you tonight. Um... so I want to
spend just a couple of minutes trying to, uh, frame the issue and talk about, uh, the
impetus for ... for bringing this before you tonight. And ... and really, uh, what the
recommendations are aimed at doing are addressing a growing number of
complaints, uh, that we've seen and... and heard, um, over the last year,
particularly this spring and summer, um, some of the concerns as ... as mentioned
in the memo that, uh, I distributed to you include, uh, aggressive behaviors,
harassment, loud and vulgar language, fighting, um, littering, smoking, um, that
type of, uh, and the use of, uh, public spaces for personal storage. Uh, so it gets
into, uh, accessibility of pedestrian ways and accessibility of public amenities. So
what we've done over the last, uh, again several months is tried to, um, figure out
how best to address these growing number of concerns. Some of them we can,
um, effectively address through increased enforcement, and the examples on the
screen here include aggressive behavior and smoking. With additional police
resources in the area, we can certainly, um, have some ... have some effect on
those issues. There are other behaviors though that ... that have been, uh, that
were ... were noted, such as the storage of personal property, the use of electrical
outlets, and some of the other things we'll go through here in a minute. But we
don't have the ... we don't have the, um ... ability to, uh, correct, uh, through
enforcement. Uh, the City code doesn't give us that authority. And so that's, uh,
that's what's leading us here to ... tonight. So how we've approached the pr... uh,
the problems, um, this year, um, of course you'll recall the, um, Iowa City
Downtown District partnered with the City to fund a new walking beat officer
position. That beat started early, uh, this year, I believe in January or February,
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and we've really tried to take a community policing, uh, approach to that. Uh, we
have Officer David Schwindt who's been in the area. I think he's done a
phenomenal job at trying to establish relationships with, um, a lot of the
stakeholders downtown, including businesses and residents and people that
frequent, uh, the downtown on a regular basis and I'm going to emphasize this,
uh, a couple of times through the presentation, but this community policing
approach, um, I ... I think, um, has been very successful and I think it's critical to
continuing the issues as we go forward here. Um, the City is ... as well as
members of the Iowa City Downtown District have actively tried to, um, engage
envis ... individuals who are, uh, demonstrating these behaviors that are generating
complaints, uh, to try to seek voluntary compliance, to try to talk with them and
understand their needs, and understand what their desires for the public spaces
are. Ultimately after, you know, months of these attempts and months of
discussions about potential solutions, City staff has come to the conclusion that
there are some regulatory changes that need to be presented and thus we're here
before you tonight. So, I'm going to go through, um, kind of item -by -item and
describe to you what, uh, we are recommending and ... and ... and why we are
making those recommendations. So the first involves the use of planters. Uh,
currently in the downtown area individuals can sit or lie on, uh, on or in the
planters. And some of the planters were designed for ... for such purposes, for
sitting. They're elevated at certain levels. They have, uh, ledges that are, uh, at
certain widths that, um, were specifically designed to accommodate sitting. The
problem comes when people are in planters or are sitting on planters that weren't
designed for such purposes. You start to, uh, destroy the vegetation in the area
that the City staff and ... and various volunteers in the community, uh, work to
maintain throughout the year. So what's before you in terms of the
recommendations for changes tonight, um, the recommendations of the proposed
ordinance would restrict being inside the planters, uh, and ... and prohibit lying
down on the planter edges at...at all times. And it would limit sitting to only
those planters that were designed for such purposes. So it's easier to talk about
what planters you can't sit on now. Those would be, uh, with the proposed
ordinance, um, those would be planters that are... loo... look like a regular curb.
They're low to the ground. Skinny. Uh, typically no more than a foot off the
ground, um ... don't have the width to accommodate people sitting so what you get
is you get someone half on the ledge, half in the vegetated area. Additional
problem, uh, that sitting on these smaller ledges causes is that people's feet extend
onto the pedestrian way and uh ... uh, they ... they limit the space of.. of, uh,
pedestrian... that pedestrians can move through those, uh, areas. Uh, there's not
a ... a great amount of...of these planters throughout the Downtown District, but
there certainly are some street segments that have, uh, a lot of the smaller planters
that would fall under this, uh, proposed ordinance. Second is, uh, storage of items
in the right -of -way. Uh, this is ... certainly one of the largest, uh, and most rapidly
growing complaints that, uh, we're getting here, uh, at City Hall and you know,
the feeling is that the storage of, uh, personal items in public spaces restrict...
restricts the use for other persons. So we're looking at a couple of changes here
to address, uh, this growing, uh, concern. One would be to, uh, restrict storage of
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items, uh, in our planters and on our tree rings in our public amenities. So in
those locations, storage of personal items would be, um, specifically prohibited.
Uh, for all other areas, uh, we looked at kind of a time and, uh, size, um ... uh,
style of regulation and the way the ordinance is ... is drafted right now, it'd be a
maximum of two hours in a 24 -hour period and no more than four square feet.
The, uh, other component of this deals with shopping carts in the downtown. Uh,
what the, uh, what the intent of the language is before you is to allow shopping
carts for their intended purposes, to transport goods to and from a ... a store to a
place of residence or to a vehicle. Um, but it would prohibit the use of, uh,
commercial -sized shopping carts for other purposes. Um, in this case storage of
items in the right -of -way. It would allow the use of ..residential scale, uh, carts
that you can purchase at a store and that people that, uh, might have apartments or
live in the downtown may use to ... to go back and forth between, uh, the various
merchants in the area. So that would still be allowed, as long as it's being used
for the intended purposes. Unattended property, this ... this directly relates to the
storage of... of... of, uh, property as well, but these are items that again take up
public spaces and... and when left unattended by their owners, they take up space
that, uh, others then can no longer use or that restricts traffic flow, uh, specifically
pedestrian flow in those areas. So the recommendations would allow the Police
Department to remove property when the owner, or the ... or the person the owner
has appointed to watch their property, is not within 20 -feet of the property. And
if we go forward with this, what we would do is we would bring forward a
resolution to you at a future reading. Um, that would outline the reclaim
procedure. As we ... uh, currently have conceptualized, it would be a notice left in
the area in which the property was removed and then a process whereby the ... the
owner could come claim that, um, at the Police Station, 24 hours a day, 7 days a
week, at no cost. But again, we would have to formalize that and bring that
forward to you at a future date before we could move forward with enforcement
of this provision. We do, uh, exempt, um, people accompanying children at the
playground area, as that is a common place to, uh, you know, leave items while
you're, uh, interacting with your children on the ... on the playground space. So
that area's a ... is exempt in this ordinance. Use of electrical outlets, um, there's
an increasing number of people that are plugging into the public outlets down
there, everything ranging from cell phones, lap tops, to ... to television sets, um,
and frankly our... our public electrical system cannot support that. It really cannot
support the public uses that we would like to have down there. Um, it's really,
uh, something that we think will need to be addressed when we do some
streetscape up ... updates in the next few years, um, but until that time comes and
we can consider upgrades that could potentially accommodate some, uh, private
uses, we don't feel, um, that uh ... uh, we should be allowing it right now. If we
continue to allow it, we'll continue to experience the problems we have, which
increase staff, uh, call -ins to address issues, you know, increase in the number of
people that have permitted events that, um, we gave permission to, you know, the
electrical system that, uh, when they get there it, you know, it doesn't meet their
needs and it certainly the mobile vendors who pay for licenses downtown and
they pay for, uh, the ability to use in part that electricity, they'll continue to
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experience problems. So what the proposed ordinance does it would just restrict
all personal use, and again, we'd hope to consider, um, changes if that was the
desire of the Council in future years as we look at upgrades in the district. Lying
on benches, um, this gets at just, you know, the fact that the benches are ... are
meant to be available, uh, to ... to all persons and to maximize, you know, the
number of people that can use the benches. Certainly if you're lying down on a
bench, um, it prohibits the use of that bench by others. So we've uh ... uh, put
forward a recommendation that would prohibit lying on benches between 5:00
A.M. and 10:00 P.M. What these, uh, why these timeframes were picked, um,
one is that our cleaning crews, uh, currently start to work in the district about 6:00
A.M. in the morning, so they're starting to assemble before then, and um, they
certainly need, uh, to access the space around the benches, as well as the benches
themselves to get them clean, uh, before the, um ... majority of the patrons that
come downtown, uh, arrive; 10:00 P.M. we felt that was a reasonable cut off
when, uh, pedestrian volumes, uh, tend to start to go down and the demand
essentially for benches start to go down. So that ... those, that was the reasoning
behind the 5:00 A.M. to 10:00 P.M. timeframes. Uh, panhandling, um, and
looking at the allowed areas where panhandling is permitted. Again, um,
panhandling is a ... a growing, uh, complaint again that we've received and when
you look at the reg ... you know, look at how we currently re ... currently regulate
that, um, it tends to be distances around certain, um, items or activities where you
have either a captive audience or someone that is, um, likely to handle money. So
it could be an ATM machine, it could be an outdoor cafe, it could be the
entrance ... or I'm sorry, the ... the, you know, the facades of the buildings
themselves. And what we're suggesting is that we, um, extend prohibited areas,
uh, to sidewalks where parking meters are present and people are frequently
handling money, and two would be extending them to the entrances of the ped
mall, and in this case we're talking about, um, three entrances to the ped mall, um,
and if you were to take the pedestrian mall right -of -way, essentially, and take it
straight up, uh, to the back of curb, those areas would be, um ... uh, prohibited
areas, uh, in addition to what's prohibited, uh, right now. Um, why the ... why the
entrances to the, uh, pedestrian mall? Uh, two primary reasons. One, they tend to
be very highly congested areas at times as people are coming and going through
the pedestrian mall. Two, is that the ... they're the primary source of wayfinding.
So people often stop to look at the, uh, district maps that are there to find
restaurants, uh, businesses, that sort of thing. Um, those are the regulations. Uh,
in summary, uh, want to talk, uh, just real quickly about the enforcement strategy.
The ordinance before you does contain provision that a citation can only be issued
if a verbal warning is issued first. Um, so I ... I think what we're trying to do with
that language is ... is show that, you know, we don't want this to be, um ... we
don't want this to surprise anybody necessarily if there's a violation. Hopefully
we can get voluntary compliance. Two we don't want to be overly punitive, uh,
with these, um, with ... with these, uh, ordinances. I can tell you in ... in talking
with, um, Officer Schwindt and other, uh, representatives of the Police
Department, um, we are already doing this, and oftentimes it's not just one
warning. It's multiple warnings, um, in some cases even ... even dozens of
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warnings to individuals, um, who have a... a... a, you know, are showing
repetitive, um... uh, ordinance, uh, you know, ordinance, uh, violations.
So ... we'll ... we want to continue to do that. Ultimately voluntary compliance we
think is ... is the best outcome. Uh, however, if there is a citation, the Police
Department has created a diversion program, uh, that they've worked hard to get
established here in the last several weeks, and this would allow an offender of an
ordinance, who receives a citation, to perform community service in the district,
and uh ... uh, and basically be able to work off the fine that he or she received.
And again, the current style, the current approach by the Police Department, I feel
very strongly about it. I think it's the right approach. I think we gotta continue
that approach of trying to build the relationships and understand the needs, um,
of...of all the stakeholders downtown. I think that's going to get us to where we
need to be long -term, um, as opposed to coming in with a ... a heavy hand and...
and uh, writing citations for every, uh, violation that's observed. So with that I'm
happy to answer questions or, uh ... address any other issues you have.
Hayek: Thanks, Geoff. Any questions for Geoff at this time? Okay, I'm sure there are
people from the audience who, uh, want to weigh in on this, and we're going to
encourage that. It is getting late. I'm going to ask that ... that people limit their
comments to four minutes, um ... and we'll be strict about it. It's already 20 of 11,
but if you would like, we invite you to come forward as we do with all things,
sign in, give us your name verbally, and give us your thoughts. Thank you!
Phillips: Hi, my name's Catherine Phillips. I live at 34 Samuel Drive. Uh, since the
flooding closed the running path along Hancher to ... to the downtown area, I
pretty much Monday through Friday run or walk from the north end of Iowa City
to the CRWC, and in the last 18 months or two years it has become increasingly
unpleasant going through the ped mall with the aggressive begging, the rude
comments. I don't think anybody needs to be sleeping on benches. I think the
...the offered allotments of when you can sleep on a bench are real generous. I
don't think you need to be sleeping in (noise on mic) flowerpots. I don't think
you need to be begging or aggressive. My daughter was left in tears the other day
by comments that were made when she was trying to take a picture of a building
downtown. It's just ... it's so ... it's become really offensive in a community that
I've lived in for decades, and feel is a really pretty embracing place, and so I don't
know what changed, but it seems like when the construction went up in the ped
mall, it started to look like a squat, and so while there's always been begging
around the edges of the ped mall and around the mall, it feels to me like it has
stretched down to, uh, right around where Catherine Champion's store is, and
they're situated outside the restaurants. They're situated outside the mall
entrances to the Old Capitol Center, and inside the mall, and it's bad enough...
I'm cutting through there all the time, and it's unpleasant, and I'm real, you know,
I'm usually in bed by 10:00 (laughter) so it ... that's what I have to say. I think
this is real generous. I don't think we're targeting anybody. I don't think
anybody ... this took so long I went and bought pizza and there's a fabulous
(several talking) there's a fabulous band playing or they were laying downtown
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and I counted how many benches were co -opted by boxes of junk or people
sleeping, including a half -naked guy. And it was seven of `em, and that was
around, what, 9:00, 9:30 tonight? That's all I have to say!
Hayek: Thank you.
Well, I have a different view on this issue, and I went down and actually talked to
the homeless people.
Hayek: Could you give us your name first, please?
Hacker: Jeffrey Hacker. It's because there's not enough shelter space in the Iowa City,
they tell me. The ... the City Council's... not addressing the issue right at all.
There ... not enough homeless shelter space and they have no place to go. The
shelter's at capacity right now. The MECA doesn't even begin to solve the
problem because they let people go early that have mental health issue, and the
City refuses to give `em money because if they help people outside of Iowa City,
I've heard that from people. And ... they're moving the homeless... trying to move
the free lunch program away from the problem which ... people say they'll just
come back downtown, and they think they're using illegal drugs and they're not,
cause if you're using illegal drugs they take a cigar and put stuff in the middle of
it and I don't see any of that. I went out and actually talked to the people and
actually stayed out there several days in a row to see if there was really any of this
bad behavior, and most of the time when they're yelling and screaming, people
misinterpret it as they're yelling at someone out in the street, and it's really one of
their friends doing something wrong. You guys always think it's, oh, the people
public think they're yelling at them when it's really down to someone else that's
one of their friends! And that's not right. You know, profiling everybody! And
profiling's not good, cause you're gonna get a lawsuit from some ... people might
someday want to sue and say you're profiling `em because we're getting' to be
like Arizona, they profile the people there ... that aren't Hispanic, thinking they're
doing somethin' bad or we're gonna be like New... New... North Carolina where
the Republican governor now is saying you ... no one can vote cause they're
Democratic. We're trying to take people's rights away and I tell you, this is all
the problem with the homeless shelters are being too crowded and get ... and stuff
like that where, and make MECA ... get MECA to ... to address the people that are
on the substance abuse and do their... and not let `em go early, you're going to
have this problem. And the city's growing bigger. And there's not enough low
income housing to solve the problem. There's people down there that don't want
to be homeless that can't find any housing at all cause there's not enough low
housing... cause you guys have let projects slip away (mumbled) housing for the
low income people. I'm lucky to have a housing ... some people don't like, uh,
Dolphin Lake on purpose actually kicked out all the people that were low income.
Some of those people are downtown. So it's not all people's fault. It's like
Dolphin Lake didn't want to ... deal with their problem with the sewer or whatever
the City cited them for, and they kicked all the homeless... they lost their
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homeless license through HUD so they ... they got realize there's not much help
for the people left in this town anymore. They do have free lunch and they do
have places to eat but when the shelter's full, where are they supposed to go?
They're not ... they can't sleep hardly any place! And I feel sorry for `em cause
there's no place for them to go and you're going to take their only places to go
and sometimes they may have a shopping cart but we're not ... we're not Los
Angeles and we're not New York where they're gonna ... where people sleep in
tent cities, and I haven't seen any of the illegal drugs you guys are ... people are
bringing... every time they yelled at somebody when I was down there it was a
friend of theirs, and people are misrepresenting the people cause I actually stayed
out til 2:00 in the morning three or four times in the past few weeks just to see if
there were really these problems, and I did not see any illegal drugs being used,
cause I... and I did not see any alcohol being use... and I actually talked to people
and found out why they were there. It's because the shelter's overcrowded. No
space, and the City hasn't done anything ... we don't even have a wet or dry ... wet
shelter for the people that ... that are in the shelters, and certain people can't even
go to the shelter, and if you want to ... some people won't even let you ... the
electric outlet, college students use `em too! And I've seen construction workers
sit on a bench the sides of the benches and stuff and no one... so it's a lot
of ..more to it than you guys have been told. And I hope you consider it.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Hacker: I actually stayed out there to see what was really going on (walking away from
mic; unable to hear)
Bird: Hi, I'm Nancy Bird. Um, I'm representing the Iowa City, uh, Downtown District
at 14 %2 S. Clinton Street. And I'm here tonight to, um, first of all thank you for
your time and all the staff time that, uh, your staff has put in to helping the
Downtown District work through some of these very, very challenging issues, as
you can tell. Um, you know we're fortunate to be in a very caring and giving
community. I think that's what makes it even more challenging. Um, the one
thing that I wanted to let you know of as far as the support from the Downtown
District is we have a near - unanimous vote on this, uh, on the slate that you have
before you on all of these items. Um, and so that support is not, uh, come lightly.
It's been through a number of discussions, um, through our legislative committee,
um, we've done a lot of outreach. We've tried to outreach with some of the
people that spend most of the time on the ped mall. Talked to them about how
they feel, um, are they feeling safe, because a lot of our, uh, our core mission, as
you know, clean and safe really, um, so in order to us to tackle that, we have to
start taking some measures to help support our other programming around things
that we do in the pedestrian mall that are challenged right now because, um, they
get ripped up or torn up or the plants are damaged so, um, how can we set
expectations for the large amounts of people that come through, uh, the pedestrian
mall. This area, um, in downtown Iowa City has got more people moving through
it than any place in the state, really. Over 9,000 people a day, when University's
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in session, travel through this area. So when we think about safety, um, what's in
a bag that's left behind, I mean, it's kind of a different environment now. We
need to think about that and so there are a number of reasons for this, um, slate to
move forward, but I think the ... the most important thing, I think that, um, to
express, because I know there's a lot of opinions in the crowd that can relay
different aspects, but how can we set expectations for the varied, um, kinds of
people that use the pedestrian mall, whether you're a student, whether or not
you're a business owner, an employee, a resident, um, someone who is homeless,
someone who just likes to spend the day down there. When everyone has
different expectations, it's hard to enforce what's appropriate in this area,
especially on pub ... on, uh, public property. So when you think about the
benches, um, what's appropriate for a bench, urn ... is it okay to put all your things
down there and co -opt two or three or four benches at a time. Is that okay? Is it
okay to sleep or languish on some of the plants? Is that all right? Well without
any way for us to help let people know what is acceptable and what isn't, we need
the tools. Um, I feel very comfortable putting these forward tonight because we
have such an amazing, um, police officer that, uh, the City has helped us, you
know, get instituted downtown in Officer Schwindt, um, and I like to call him a
police, uh, or a peace officer because he knows everybody's names. He knows
where they live, um, if they don't have a home, he knows about it. He knows
their family situations. They know ... he knows them. And he's worked hard with
us to recognize who we can speak to and work with, and try to get some of the,
uh, issues identified so that they can help self - police. Pick up litter, um, help
encouraging other people just to, you know, do the right thing and ... and be kind
to people walking by. So we've done a lot of work around this area and with, um,
Officer Schwindt and hopefully others like him, cause I'd like to advocate for,
um, additional resources of that source that can help us enforce, because I think
enforcement is key to this. We shouldn't put anything out there that isn't
enforceable, but uh, the way these were written, uh, they were thoughtful and
conscientious, and I think with the right enforcement strategy, I think this is a
very good start, for a way for us all to be both safe and generous in a giving
community, and um ... really care for all the people who want to spend time
downtown because 1, you know, the street culture is what makes it special too. Sc
with that, I want to thank you for your support and um, and your consideration.
Hayek: Thank you.
Dieterle: Uh, I'm Caroline Dieterle. Um, the first thing I'd like to remark on is the timing
of this discussion. I don't know who sets the agenda, the order of things in the
agenda, but this item is something that affects potentially almost everybody in
Iowa City, and I don't think that it should have been put so far back in the agenda
that we're talking about it at 10 minutes to 1 1:00 at night. There are a lot of
people who couldn't stay. (unable to hear person away from mic) And I ... I think
in ... this isn't the first time this has happened, that there's something that lots of
people want to talk about and somehow it winds up at the end of the agenda and
we're told you cannot talk about anything in the public discussion if it's on the
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agenda. So in a way, the worst thing about this is the cutting off of public input,
which I think is serious because this ... this issue that we're talking about now
affects everybody that goes through the downtown, which is a lot of people, most
people in town go to... go through the downtown at some time. I've been lucky.
I've never had anybody, um, importune me down there or do anything
objectionable. I don't spend a lot of time downtown, but I'm frequently
downtown. I do think that it's nice that we have community policing down there
and I feel very sorry for the police officers that will be stuck with this
enforcement strategy. Because you know you might as well make a law that's,
you know, it's illegal to have water in your basement. Um, it's going to happen.
And making it illegal doesn't ... only means people don't report it. So you know
here we are, we have a... a town that over the last few years has made one
restriction after the other of what's essentially public property down there, and it's
as though the people that have businesses down there are trying to make it the
equivalent of an enclosed mall, like Coral Ridge or Sycamore Mall, rather than a
public space, which is what it is. From repainting the paint ... the benches and
getting rid of all of the ... the, uh, heterogeneous, uh, art that was down there
(clears throat) we're making it a... same, same, same. No begging. No musical
instruments. No this. No that. It makes us look very uptight. It makes it hard to
enforce all of that, and as I said, I think it's an insult that you would wait until this
late in the evening for people to have their say about this. I think that what are
you going to do with $65 fines if people are ultimately fined? If you don't pay
your fine, you do to jail. This Council backed the jail proposition. Is this what
the ... what you want more beds for, for a jail? You want a bigger jail so you can
put homeless people in there, poor people? Something's really wrong. Thanks.
Hayek: Thank you (light applause; unable to hear person away from mic)
Langer: Good evening! I'm Michael... Reverend Michael Langer. I'm the pastor of One
Ancient Hope Presbyterian Church. We meet at the ... at the Robert A. Lee Rec
Center. We've been downtown for about three years. Uh, I moved here five
years ago to plant the church. I was originally born here in 1967. I love this town
a lot. I am personally invested in this homeless issue. My mother, uh, as a result
of just a very tragic set of circumstances was homeless for about five or six years.
Uh, she passed away three years ago, very mentally ill, very frail from her time on
the streets, and it was very hard watching that. Um, our church, uh, as I said, we
meet downtown. Part of the reason we meet downtown is so that we can be close
to students, but also so that we can be intentionally close to the homeless
population. Uh, on any given Sunday we'll have one or two folks from the street
that come in and participate in our services. We don't offer them money. But we
offer them relationship, um, I have had a number of the various city's homeless
people in our home for Easter dinner, for Thanksgiving dinner, for just a dinner
after lunch. Many of the ones that you would recognize. So I'm ... I'm personally
invested in this and I, you know, as a... as a pastor, um, I care about the city, as
well. I want to see this city flourish. Uh, when addressed the Downtown
Business District a few months ago, and I've been pleased to be a part of some of
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these conversations, urn ... I really do want to see the downtown businesses
flourish. I want to see them make money and prosper, so that they can invest
more in this city, so that justice and mercy can flow out of the front doors of these
businesses, and we can do a better job of providing the services that are needed
for these people. Um, these people who have names, who I don't want to have
people walk by them and pretend like they're not there. And most of the business
owners that are here tonight, and that I've talked to, they don't want that either.
Um, but what we're also talking about is justice and mercy. And you know, uh,
like this woman has spoken earlier, you know, I care about having justice and
mercy for the homeless because my mother was among them, uh, and so I want
justice and mercy for them, but I also want justice and mercy for my teenage
daughters, when they come downtown I want them to feel safe walking around. I
want to know that they're not going to be accosted. I want justice and mercy for
the business owners who've invested tens of thousands and in some cases millions
of dollars for a business asset to be able to make money, and to be able to do that
appropriately. But the other thing that's important that I kind of want to frame
this around is it's also about dignity. For a number of the people that are
downtown, the idea of self - dignity departed them long ago. Their ability to see
themselves as valuable, as important, as ... people that should be cared for in any
way is something, an idea that has not occurred to them for a long time. And so
where you or I would feel ashamed to lay down in our own filth on a park bench
or in a planter, they don't experience that. Most of them don't care anymore.
And what is the worst thing to do? To allow them to continue to do that behavior
because we feel pity for them or to say, we understand that you're no longer able
to access your own dignity so let us help you. Let us make sure that you're not
put on public display for people to walk by, for college students to mock, for
people to gawk at, but to say, you know what? You can't lay on that park bench
in the middle of the day in your own filth. You can't lay on that planter. We care
about you enough that we're going to help you to not do that, and this is not a
solution. There ... there are solutions to be had later on. This is not that. But I ... I
do want to say that the voices in this room including mine who are very
passionate about the homeless community, if I thought we were offending their
dignity, I would be the first person to speak against it. And so I favor a lot of
these motions, and I just want to say ... one of the other roles that I have is I serve
as a volunteer chaplain for the Iowa City Police Department. It's been my
pleasure to work with them for the last month or so. I've gotten to know Officer
David Schwindt and I have got to tell you that you have got a fantastic police
force! I have listened as police officers have talked, kindly by name, being very
pleasant to individuals, asking them to move on, showing them maps of places
that they might be able to sleep unaccousted. Offering them socks, offering to
help them get their bicycles fixed. You guys have got a fantastic police
department and I want to commend you for that. That's the end of my comments.
Hayek: Thank you.
Langer: Thank you.
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Webber: Hi, my name is Webber. Rick Webber. Not homeless now. Was for a while in
this town. And there were individuals that came forward and made sure that I had
a sleeping bag so that I wouldn't freeze. And there were other people who told
me that I deserved what I had gotten. So I know what he means. The erosion of
your self - concept is something that can happen to anyone. The police department
is sterling to most of the large urban communities. I agree with that. There're
also some opies out there who really enjoy getting on a Mexican or a black
person, or a woman who seems to be out of control. I've seen all of `em, all those
instances occur. I've lived here for 40 years. It seems surprising to me that none
of your police officers have been injured except by a student. And I think it's
noteworthy that it was a student that, uh, harmed (mumbled) one of your officers
to the ground. Uh, some of them need some education. They need a DARE
program, to remind them that they too can get hurt. And I say that advisedly
because I lived through `burn baby burn.' You remember what `burn baby burn'
is? I think I've said enough to you.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Kubby: Good evening, my name is Karen Kubby and I'm speaking here as an individual.
And I think that for me this has been a personal struggle really trying to balance
my firm and deep belief in people's civil rights to congregate in public spaces
with a small group of people really affecting the flavor of a space for a vast
majority of our community, of people who live here and people who visit here.
And so I've been trying to figure out where ... where do I find that balance, and
that's going to be your job (laughs) not my job! Um ... and I ... I can't support
these all intact, altogether. And so it seems like it's being presented, although this
may not be true, is that you have to vote this all up or down. There are some of
these proposals that I support increased regulation, and others that I think go a
little too far. And so the ... the two that I feel ... could be taken out, and that I hope
you will want to look at these as individual components, whether that's through
amendment or if they have to be all or nothing, to say no to all of them and come
back with these individually so you have a chance to ... to interact with these
individually. So the first one that I have some problems with is the, um, not all of
the use of planter ordinance, but the piece that says you can sit on the high planter
but you can't sit on the lower planter. I feel like that's just really an over -reach
for government about sitting in public space, and I know that there are businesses
that have some problems with people lingering on the lower... planters and legs
are stretched out, but we have all kinds of... sidewalk cafes that also impinge on
public right -of -way and the ability for pedestrians to walk down, and so I feel like
this one is going a little too far. I don't mind the not sitting inside the planters,
but if we do that, I feel there should not be exceptions for the Friday and Saturday
night concert series. Because if the purpose of that is to not damage all the work
that's done to create the beautification of the planters and damage the plants,
anyone can do that who's in the planters. Just because someone's downtown with
a lawnchair (mumbled) Friday night concert doesn't mean they're not damaging
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the plants so I think that ... the exception should go away. (mumbled) out of an
issue of fairness. Um ... I think that the other ... issue about the, uh, storage of
private property. Um, the issue I have is that someone... people... people are
taking up so much space that other people don't have access, but if we say you
can't store your property, and you don't have a home and there's not an
alternative, I think we have to explore at least having lockers somewhere, where
people can go, whether they're paid or not. I don't mind people having... people
having to pay some of the folks panhandling make more money than I do on an
annual basis, and I feel like they can probably aff...panhandle longer, pick up
cans to get the cost of the locker. I understand there's lots of logistics in
discussing that, but I hope that you will at least explore that issue, whether it's at
the Rec Center. Whether it's at some other location where people have access to
store their ... their personal property. And I would love some recognition that even
though I do not like the look of shopping carts and I'm okay with that part of what
you're looking at, the shopping carts from my perspective were a response to
saying you can't have your stuff spread out all over place and decrease access to
other people using the benches. So people were trying to hear that, and
consolidate their belongings in this ... in a shopping cart. So even though I don't
like `em, I don't want them. I want people to recognize it was some response to
the community conversation about this. So the other piece that I have a problem
with is, uh, plugging personal devices into the public electric system. I think that,
uh, the vendors who pay for that right have priority access. I feel that public
events that are permitted have priority, but when they're not being used by those
entities, I feel that people ... I want people to have a phone so that they have access
to the greater world. I want them plugging in their laptops to have access to the
greater world. So um, what... whatever you do with that, I do hope that with the
upgrade of the streetscape plan, that the electrical system is upgraded to
accommodate that, and /or that there's public kiosks like there would be at an
airport, uh, where people are ... that's a place where people are sanctioned and
encouraged to go. So, I don't want you to vote them all down or all yes, but I do
want you to look at these individually and hope that you'll think about this sitting
on the planters and the plugging in of... of personal devices. Thank you much.
Hayek: Thank you.
Champion: Before I forget to ask it later, does the Library have public plugins? That people
can go in... does anybody know? (unable to hear person away from mic)
Hayek: (several talking) Anyone else who'd like to...
Champion: They can, you can charge your phones at the Library.
Hayek: Would someone like to come to the podium and...
Champion: Okay. Never mind! It's been answered.
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Hayek: (both talking) ...to the Council.
Champion: Jim said it can, that you can use the Library.
Throgmorton: (mumbled)
Klein: Good evening, uh, I'm Garry Klein of 628 Second Avenue here in Iowa City.
Um ... I ... I ... I was ... I was really struck on ... on when I should speak, because I
feel ... what I have to say is actually tied to something that is coming down the
road, which is the downtown streetscape project, which I ... I tend to see as part of
a solution, because I think what's going on right now is ... in, uh, is because of the
construction going on on the ped mall and the increased numbers of outdoor
seating and things that have kind of pushed people, uh, together in a way that's
uncomfortable for some. I think that part of it is how do we create a streetscape
that kind of alleviates some of the ... those other concerns for sure. Um ... in a way
I kind of see the ped mall as sort of being like, uh, the Dude's rug in The Big
Lebowski. It's kind of that thing that pulls us all together. It's the ... pulls our
room together, and I think one of the things that we're running into more recently
is that when we're all together, some of us don't know how to behave ourselves
and that's a... certainly a... a concern, and it puts... it puts a limit to our kindness
and tolerances of other people therefore. So, um ... one of the things that I was
thinking about is that it's ... the ped mall is a public place, but for a lot of people
it's also a place of refuge. It's a place where they can be and be themselves and
those in ... uh, include people who like to work ... watch the world go by, people
who need to rest, people who occasionally yell out or ask for help, people like
babies and children who are with their parents. Uh, people like older folks who
have taken a walk away from the Ecumenical Towers, people who are walking
their dogs, people with debilitating conditions like fibromyalgia and chronic
fatigue syndrome, that occasionally they just gotta lay down. Um ... and yes, there
are those people we ... we, uh, we call vagrants, homeless, etc. And most of them
are like the rest of the people I've described, except they lack a certain something,
housing, warmth of family, security of having their next meal or ... and/or a job,
and yeah, some of them chose that. So, again, yeah, we can make another law.
We can make another ordinance. We can continue to make ordinances and... and
every time someone violates it, we can give `em another fine, put `em in
community service, and what have we solved? What have we solved? So I've
got some ideas about how to solve it, you know, because one of the things people
accuse me of all the times is (laughter) is I ... I ... I can name the problem really
well but I don't have any answers. So, here's some answers! So, how bout, uh,
besides our ... our wonderful Officer Schwindt, who's done a great job from all...
from all ... all signs that I can see of it. Why not have a full -time advocate or
social worker for those people, as Rod Sullivan, uh, proposed in ... publicly not too
long ago. Uh, a day worker program, maybe we can help put it, people to work in
some way. Maybe we can, uh, have some things going on in the middle of the
day, some entertainment kinds of things where we have musicians on Monday
through Friday where we're all coming out and having our lunch out in the ped
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mall, and... therefore, you know, allow that ... a lot of the things that we see that
are true on Friday and Saturday nights could be true every day of the week, where
people are less likely to be abrasive to others, when there's a lot of people around.
Um...
Hayek: You're pushing your time limit here so if you could wrap up. We do have second
and third readings (both talking)
Klein: Okay!
Hayek: So we invite you to come back!
Klein: Okay! So I'm going ... so fine, I honor the Mayor's very, uh, request by ending it
this way. The other day I'm on the ped mall. I see ... I see a beautiful sign right
by the brand new building that's being built that says, uh, that says, `We're glad
you're here.' Now I see that as a ... I see we have a little bit of an irony going on
at the ... at the best, and at the worst we've got to come up with some better
solutions than yet another ordinance to address how people can be there, and we
actually can be glad they're there.
Hayek: Thank you!
Canganelli: Good evening. My name's Chrissy Canganelli and I'm Executive Director of
Shelter House. I just also, um, wanted to comment on and recognize the good
work of Officer Schwindt. Um, he's really doing an exceptional job in building,
uh, report and relationships with individuals who are downtown, speaking with
them as another human being, addressing their issues, uh, being genuine in his
interactions with people. And commend the Downtown Business Association and
the City of Iowa City for having the community service officer in that area.
Um ... I understand the limit of ordinances and I respect that this has been a very
reasoned approach and that we've reached this point because other things just
have not been productive or had the impact that we're looking for. I've seen a
change in the downtown area. I've lived here for 30 years and I've seen a change
in the downtown area over the last year to 18 months that I've never witnessed
before. So again, I respect the work that you're doing. The discussion that we're
having now, but I also recognize the limitations of ordinances while
understanding that that's something that the City does have as a tool to use, to
address these issues and to try to help provoke change in behavior and uses of
environment. Um, understanding the limitations in that over the long -term they
probably will not be the panacea that we're looking for. That there are other
solutions that other communities have implemented, other programs and services
that we have an opportunity to explore. They're longer -term solutions so they
don't meet the immediacy and the urgency of the things that we're trying to
address tonight and this year, but would hope that the City Council, leadership
throughout this community would continue to be involved in addressing the issues
of these individuals, especially the ones that I'm familiar with who are chronically
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homeless, who are service resistant, who are seriously sick, mentally... mentally
ill, chronic substance abuse problems, co- occurring disorders, and they're living
out their sickness... their sicknesses and their illness in the public, under the
public domain. There are things that we can do as a community to realign our
services and our resources to help offer other solutions for people so that they can
live out their lives with dignity. Um... and we began a discussion earlier this year
and I haven't follow up, but it is to re- explore the FUSE system and a housing —
first option for these individuals. Um, the things that we're doing today, uh, are
not working. They're not ... the solution that's needed, so having more diversity in
the portfolio of offerings that we can provide, uh, will catch more individuals and
address more people's needs. So just hope that you're able to stick with us as
these conversations continue and mature. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you, Chrissy. Anyone else?
Nusser: Uh, I'm Bill Nusser. I own a business downtown and I'm, uh, also president of
the Iowa City Downtown District. Um ... uh, and I'll ... I'm going to be speaking
in both roles and ... and I'll try to identify who I am when I'm saying different
things, but um, I want to say that on behalf of the Downtown District that, um, we
do appreciate the work of like everybody else ... the work of Officer Schwindt
downtown. He's a very positive influence, and um, he's also very good in terms
of reporting what's really happening, and I think that one of the questions that's
been asked tonight is how accurate is the information we have on what's really
going on, and I think it's pretty accurate. The District has made a lot of attempts
to study this problem from as many different directions as we possibly can.
We've had Shelter House come. We've had, um, Reverend Langer come. We've
had a number of different people that are involved in different aspects of this
problem and some of the things that they, uh, find to be, uh, universally true is as
Chrissy just mentioned that there's a lot of service - resistance among the
population downtown and uh, these are people that are ... that have not only fallen
through the cracks but ... in ... in some cases that's the only way they know how to
live and ... and uh, I agree with previous remarks about, uh, allowing this to
continue is doing a disservice to, uh, these people who really need a different kind
of help than what we're giving. Um ... uh ... I want to comment about the fact
that ... about the comment that was made about, um, businesses trying to enclose,
uh, the area like a mall and promote, uh, homogeneity, and I think that um ... uh,
the Downtown District has been very clear among its membership about, uh, the
fact that we do not like homogeneity and we're not looking for a, uh, a cookie -
cutter solution to this problem. We agree that the ... that the ped mall is for
everyone, uh, and that does mean for everyone, and at this point there's certain
parts of the ped mall that is not ... that are not for everyone, that are only for
particular groups and part of the problem is, uh, making the whole pedestrian mall
accessible to everyone. Uh, and so I think that the ordinance ... as a ... pers...
personally, I can't speak for the Downtown District because we haven't talked
about the ordinances formally, but uh, the, uh ... uh, I think the ordinances address
this, um ... some of the specific issues that cause this to be a localized problem, as
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best as they possibly can at this point and ... and um, it is a difficult, uh, problem
and I think it's an ongoing problem and I think we do need to be creative about
what we can do, but I also think we need action now, uh, everybody has
commented that they've noticed within the last year to year and a half that
the ... that the demeanor has changed downtown, particularly in the northend of
Dubuque Street and urn .... as a business person I noticed this comment, hearing
among our customers, and it's difficult to really think about your businesses, um,
prospering in the future when ... when there's a lot of fear, um, and anger about
what's happening downtown and ... and a fear for safety and uh, the Downtown
District is charged, uh, with making downtown a better, a safer place, and I think
that the City is helping us out with these ordinances in this particular case. Um, I
also think that we ... we as a downtown district believe in justice and mercy for all,
and it means all of us. It means just not the people that are ... that are existing in
the ped mall now but all the people who want and choose to use it and the people
that are working downtown. Uh, and so as a, uh, I think we owe it to the
downtown, the District and the city as a whole, to do whatever we can and I think
this is a very good start on the part of the City and thank you for this effort.
Hayek: Thank you for the comments.
Ingram: We actually ran out of space. (laughter) Hi, my name's Kathy Ingram. I grew up
in Iowa City. I worked on the ped mall in summers when I was in high school
and during college. Um, I think we've sort of been misidentifying the problem.
Um, there are a number of people that are homeless and stopping them from
sitting or lying on the benches or telling them that they can't keep their stuff
downtown doesn't stop them from being homeless. It doesn't improve the
situation for anyone. I think a lot of the problem that we've seen over the past
year is the construction downtown on the ped mall has really sort of concentrated
people in a way that wasn't true in the past. Um ... so I think that's part of the
problem in terms of, uh, people seeing these different behaviors or with
congestion through the ped mall. But, I think having the sort of permanent
solution of creating these new restrictions and sort of, um, trying to change
behaviors isn't really the best way to deal with the temporary issue of
construction and congestion. I think we could be doing a lot more to provide
more services to the people downtown, um, and that's clearly a separate issue
from what we're talking about now, but I think um ... in terms of people
downtown not wanting to see that there are people that are homeless and that
don't have another place to stay and are thus sleeping on the benches because it is
their best place at that moment, um ... is not sort of representative of how we are as
a community. Um, I know the woman who was here earlier said that she ran
downtown and saw that there were seven benches that had people either lying on
them or with their stuff on them. To be honest, there are like 60 benches on the
ped mall, um, I've never seen them all full. I've never seen them close to full.
Um, I think they're part of the congestion issue because there're legitimately like
60 benches on the ped mall. Um ... so I don't know if other people have had
issues with being able to use the benches, but it doesn't seem to me that that's
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actually been a problem that requires a solution. Um ... so ... that's what I wanted
to say. Thank you!
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Champion: Thank you!
Marsh: Um, my name is Jennifer Marsh. I'm 1172 Foster Road. Um, first of all I want to
thank the City Council for your service, um, it's always impressive to come to
these meetings, um, and see people sit through this. Um, I ... I am a union
organizer and I was an occupier and a member of the 99 %, um, and so I think it's,
uh, somewhat interesting, um, in considering these ordinances before the Council
to look back, uh, to a couple years ago, um, to how the protests in College Green
Park was handled and I was ... I was here for one of those City Council meetings,
and I was very impressed with the City Council at that point. Um, there was...
there was no pepper spray, um, there were no, um, police removals or any, some
of the things we saw larger, um, national publicity on happening in ... in other
cities, and I think, um, you know that there were a lot of middle class folks
participating in that protest. It was a public protest. It was a public assembly.
There were a lot of educated folks participating in that protest, and as someone,
um, who deals with issues not of homelessness but of poverty, um, it's clear that,
um, class and poverty, uh, is the last socially acceptable form of discrimination, or
one of the last socially acceptable forms of discrimination, um, that we deal with
in this country and so we're sitting here, everybody knows what we're talking
about. We're talking about the homeless. Um, and I don't see that there's a way
for an ordinance like this to be enforced nondiscriminately. Um, I think if a... if
someone who was well dressed and showered, uh, and who was downtown, um,
and needed to lie down on the bench, I don't think they're going to be treated the
same way as the folks that the police have a relationship with, no matter how well
intentioned that, um, relationship is. Um ... I also ... you know have an interest in
... in freedom of assembly and public protest, and as a labor person, um, certainly
a lot of our rights as workers, um, are impacted and derived from that, and so
there's this concept of, uh, in protest of...as labor's concerned in terms of mutual
aid and protection, and so when workers act collectively in aid of other workers,
that's considered legally protected activity as a form of protest. Um, and there's
...there's a principle there when, um, an individual... upholds a principle, um, that
in a union contract or otherwise is ... is something that's a benefit to other workers.
That individual even if they act alone, um, is considered to be engaged in
concerted protest. And ... and so, um, my ... my take on this is that, um, you know,
you ... you were very accommodating to the mass protest in the park. Um, if the
City, um, or the other ent ... or the County or the other entities are not going to,
um, provide the services like a wet shelter that these folks need, then I think, um,
we as a community need to face up to the fact that every individual that's out
there existing uh, is engaging in a form of protest, um ... and uh I ... I would also
refer to, um, there's a writer called Barbara Aaronrikes, some of you may have
read her ... her book Nickel and Dimed. Um, she was here in Iowa City last year.
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She spoke at the Engl ... the Englert very eloquently, um, about the criminalization
of poverty, um, as she gave an update on ... on her book that she had written where
she went out and took minimum wage jobs and found out as a professor what it
was like to experience poverty, and ... and lately she's writing about all these
ordinances, um, that we see across the country in different cities that criminalize
poverty, um, whether that's lying on benches or panhandling, or ...or any of the
things that folks, um, need to do when they have no property, when they have no
place to go. Um, I'm also, you know, it was raised that this is the comments, this
is public property, um, Chomsky has written recently about something called, uh,
the Charter of the Forest, which is related, uh, it's a sub... sub charter of the
magna carte and it gave rights, um, to folks as to what they could do on the
commons, you know, and this is in medieval England. Folks could allow their
pigs, um, to ... to eat acorns in the King's forest, right, and so um, this ... this
certainly is a restriction, um, of a basic human right to even exist, um, in the
public realm. And ... and you know, to ... to rest, to lay your head down and ... and I
think the City Council really needs to put some thought to ... to even necessarily
the constitutionality of...of ordinances, um, like this, and so um, I ... I'd urge you
to give serious consideration to it and as written, uh, I'd voice my opposition to
these ordinances. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you.
Ross: Hi, I'm Brandon Ross. I live on Rochester Avenue. 1, uh, I also feel that what's
happened downtown, there's a number of dynamics that have occurred and uh,
it's been mentioned that the public space, if it is a commons, has been reduced.
Um, businesses have taken a good portion of that. The construction of the tower,
uh, that's going on right now has taken a big portion, even though some of that's
temporary, that'll... that'll correct, has also kind of funneled, bottlenecked, uh,
people into a certain place where they were not normally before. And I think that
that will change. Uh, I think that, uh, the ordinances I disagree in large because
how many ordinances can we have, I mean, we can end up with 600 ordinances,
uh, you know, we can ... it's, you know, yet it won't solve the main problem,
which has been brought up that basically we have homeless people and we have
disabled people and that's really what the problem is. We're coming at it from an
interesting direction, but I think the direction is wrong. We do have homeless
shelter. Not all people take advantage of it, but I think that what we need to do
better, uh, is that since we are building all ... all these high- rises, there's a lot of
business going on downtown. Part of the interesting dichotomy of downtown is
that we have these high - rises, uh, going up with lots of units, but there are
absolutely no affordable housing. (noise on mic) And that the City's, uh, gesture
is to ... is to basically corral or to sequester or to eliminate or to make invisible a
whole class of people, uh, by these ordinances. I know that they're in good, uh,
you know, in good conscience. I ... I don't like to see shopping baskets full of
things necessarily, uh, you know, not in my living room or... or on the ped mall.
Necessarily it's not my preference. But these people don't have any place to put
their goods, and it's easy for us to have a ... a cynical disregard in a sense for
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people who are less fortunate than we are. Um, and to be able to move them
around like pawns. And yet they don't have enough places. To me, uh, if this is
the United States, uh, then basically everybody has the right to have a place to
live. And if this is the kind of way that we're talking about things, then I think
that we are in violation of those rights. And that all we can do is to come up with
a bunch of incremental things. Uh, the planters, I'm ... I'm for nat, you know,
nature and things. I don't want people sitting in planters, uh, and things like that
necessarily, but people, you know, people are generally pretty good about that. I
think this is too micro - managing, and I think that what's next, you know, you'll
only be able to stand in a certain place for a certain amount of time. And it'll only
be for maybe a half an hour, and maybe there'll be, you know, a parking police
person or ... or you know will come by with chalk to make sure that, uh, they'll
chalk you like the tires, uh, so you won't be able to stand there for, uh, say
10...10 minutes and 8 seconds (laughter) and they'll be chalking, you know, I
don't want to see Officer Schwindt doing that. Uh ... but ... uh, the point is really
though, what the outrage is is that why are we talking about micro - managing
when basically we have a problem and that is that we cannot house a whole class
of people in this town. We are talking about this like we are very privileged
people, and uh, you know, these are people that are ... are people that we have in
our own families. You take care of them, you do the best you can. It's spoken
about through the first and the second testament. Abraham Lincoln, Franklin
Roosevelt, Adam Smith said you have to make provisions for these people. So
making these audit... this... this ordinance, it just seems like, uh, it's just
nitpicking, trying to ... trying to make them disappear. That these people are
marginal people. That they are, uh, they're disposable people, and so I disagree
with this. I think we can do a lot better! This is a great city. This has, you know,
in 20 years that I've been here, over 20 years that I've been here, you know, it's
become tighter. You know, there's been less affordability downtown. The people
who are in the top echelons of the business run the town. And it's gotten more
like that, over and over the Chamber of Commerce comes in, sits front and center.
But there're working people, and there're working poor, and there are ... there are
jobless people. You heard that there's a jobless recovery. Do you know what that
is? That's called a recession, and there's a lot more people that are out of work
today than there were a year ago, and a lot of these people are funneling in. So,
please ... yes, there's a problem. Please look at it like what the problem is. It's not
that they're lying in the ... in the beds, uh, you know, that they're lying down and
things like that. The problem is how do we house our people, how do we take
care of them. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you. (light applause) Okay. I want to thank the audience for its input and
I'm going to close it down to Council discussion and a vote.
Payne: Did we already moved the first consideration?
Hayek: What's that?
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Payne: Did we move the first consideration?
Hayek: We did.
Payne: Okay.
Champion: Did we move it?
Hayek: We moved it (both talking) on the table.
Karr: Mims, Payne.
Throgmorton: (several talking) Could I ask just a clarifying question, uh ... so we have before us
a proposed ordinance. The question is, uh, if we vote on it tonight, how
the ... could we amend it at some point in the future, like second reading, third
reading, you know, and what's ... what are the steps involved in that.
Dilkes: Of course you can always amend it. If you amend it in a substantive way then
you'd have to back up to first reading.
Throgmorton: Yeah, okay.
Champion: I ... I mean, I'm always happy to start out, but ... just going to talk off the cuff here.
Contrary to what people think I don't mind seeing homeless people. I don't mind
talking to them. I don't mind dealing with them. Actually I try to help them. My
three favorite charities are Shelter House and Crisis Center, and the Salvation
Army. I am telling you right now there is a difference in the flavor of what's
going on downtown right now. I have never complained about the ped mall. I've
defended it to the hilt and defended the people on it, but when-when somebody
like me becomes... becomes unpleasant even for me to walk across the street and
walk to another business, I mean, that's ... that takes a lot! You can talk to people
who know me. They know I've defended it when they say, "I don't like the ped
mall." I say then ... these people are harmless. By these people I mean the mall
people. I don't mean `these people' really. But that is not true anymore. They're
aggressive. They're... they're not nice. I've ... I myself have broken up fights
down there. I'm not even going to tell you the stuff I've seen going on down
there. I already said at the work session, I'm not going to say it here on public
TV, but I'm telling you it is not a healthy environment for anybody. If I had a
child, I would not even walk them past this group. This group that is the
harassing group, there's probably 10 of `em. We're not even talking about 50 or
100. We're talking about very small number of people and that's why most rules
are made. So I'm begrudgingly going to support these rules tonight. It doesn't
mean that I won't listen to some other possibilities, but it's become ... when I'm
willing to make rules about what people are doing on the ped mall, that is the
height of what I think is a big problem. So I'm going to support it, even though
I'm ... I'm begrudgingly doing it. I don't like doing it!
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Throgmorton: So, Connie (both talking) Michelle, go ahead.
Payne: I ... I was just going to say I don't think that regulation is always the answer. I
think it should be the last resort. Um, more rules doesn't always solve the
problem. Um ... I ... I think that what we have written is going to treat all people
the same. I hope that the ... the police officers that are downtown would treat me
just like they would treat somebody else if I was laying on a bench. If it's against
the rules, it's against the rules. Um, but all people should have the ability to feel
safe in the ped mall. And that means everybody! Um ... I do think we need a real
solution. This isn't the real solution, um, but we need to do something in the
meantime. Um, and if the real solution comes about in the future ... we're making
a regulation tonight. If we pass it, we can always lessen the regulation in the
future if it's not needed anymore. I think we did that not too long ago with dogs
on the ped mall.
Champion: Right.
Payne: I mean, there are things that can be done in the future if we find a different
solution.
Dobyns: We did it with the 21, too (several talking)
Champion: Right, and the venues. Music venues.
Payne: S o l ...I'm with ... I'm with Connie. I think that, you know, what are the other
solutions. I ... I guess I don't know at this point. I ... I would hope that we could
find some as some people in the audience have talked about, um, but we need to
do something now so that ... people still want to go downtown.
Hayek: Go ahead, Jim.
Throgmorton: So ... so let me insert a different perspective to all this. I ... I began with the
presumption that the people of concern are fellow human beings and part of the
community of Iowa City. So ... what we're witnessing is something awry in our
community, and that we collectively, as a community, need to fig ... try to figure
out what to do about it. I also think they have as much right to the city as
anybody else. So, that ... that's another presumption to start with. I'm really
moved by what Rev. Langer had to say. Where ... where is he? Is he still here?
(several talking) He left, uh... (several talking)
Champion: He's right there!
Throgmorton: (several talking) ...about justice, mercy, and dignity. I was very moved and thank
you for, uh, for bringing those words into the ... into our conversation. Um, but I
also recognize that many people, myself included, also feel very uncomfortable
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when the ... when they walk past certain people downtown, and I too had an
experience involving my daughter a few days ago that I found ... found quite
worrisome. So I completely recognize that. I also recognize that some people
think downtown is dirty and dangerous. Partly because of the presence of this
cluster of people, some of whom ... most of perhaps, uh, of whom are homeless.
However, the fact that some of us feel uncomfortable does not mean that specific
people in this specific location are dangerous. You know, so ... which leads me to
ask, how can we appropriately distinguish between that which makes some of us
feel uncomfortable and that which is dangerous? So to be persuaded it's
dangerous, I need to have some evidence! And, you know, I know you ... you
know, you expressed some (both talking)
Champion: (laughs) Right!
Throgmorton: ... clear things that, uh, are signals of that and I certainly saw something that I take
as a signal of it, but I need more ... more evidence really.
Champion: Well they're not murdering people, I don't think!
Throgmorton: Well, I know, I don't want too much evidence.
Dickens: There was a knife attack Sunday night. One of the gentleman pulled a knife and
was (both talking) swinging at `em, so there's... there's insolent, or isolated
incidences. Uh ... I've been downtown for 40 years and I probably see more than
I'd like because we have a lot of windows and we're right at ground zero I would
say. It's ... we're right at the center of everything. Tolerance has been getting
tougher and tougher. We have tolerated more than probably most people in Iowa
City. Um ... we ... we try to show respect, but if you don't get respect back it's
very tough to ... to move on from that. Uh ... I ... I spoke in the work session about,
uh, one of the banks is going to have a youth achievement. They came down to
the Englert to ... to look at it. They're planned on booking it. After leaving there
he was coming up to our store to just stop in and talk to me. He almost went back
and said I'm moving to Coralville, the entire event, because this is not an
environment that kids and young adults and their parents really need to be put
through. Uh ... I agree there ... the state funding has been a major problem. We're
not getting the services that we can afford. Every time we look we're being cut
back on ... on things that we can do. The private sector is ... is always being asked
to donate. We do that! Uh, Officer David, he's doing fantastic job. He comes in
and he talks to all of us. What can we do? Some of these were his
recommendations that we need to do some of this, or I need tools that I can help
try to control the worst people that are downtown. Um ... yes, some of the rules
may be a little bit much, but I think we need to ... to adopt `em all and maybe work
back from that, and while we're doing that continue on looking for ways that we
can ... and help these people. I know a lot of `em by name too. They talk to me,
uh ... one of my favorites is he's maybe a little too aggressive as a panhandler, but
every time he sees me he says, `Oh, sorry, man! I didn't know it was you!' Or I
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grew a beard last week, I was on vacation. I confused him and he (laughs)
apologized again. There... there's a lot of good people there and there's a lot of
potential there but... it's... small core that's making us do this, and I feel bad about
doing that but ... this is the worst in 40 years that I've ever seen and the most
aggressive and the most dangerous, and I had my grandkids down this weekend to
go to the movies and they were running ahead of us. All of a sudden they came
running back. They were scared. And that's not how my Iowa City is.
Throgmorton: Matt, you know I ... I really didn't get a chance to finish...
Hayek: Yeah.
Throgmorton: ... two other points I was going to make, but appreciate everything that Terry had
to say. So the two other points I wanted to make were, the proposed ordinance
and background information refer to disorder, chaos, congestion, and so on,
associated with, uh, particular people. Seems to me as somebody in ... whose...
folks said that some of this is caused by the staging area for the new building, and
as a long -time user of that ped mall it seems blatantly obvious that that's true. My
sense is that the construction has made the space unappealing for all other ped
mall users in that area. It's, you know it is. It's a construction site, so it's not the
place you want to hang out. That's where I used to enjoy hanging out. It's where
Rod Sullivan used to hang out with... with Jim Clayton and... and uh... (sighs)
Huh? (several talking) And Gary ... and Gary Sanders. I know exactly where
they sat all the time. They don't sit there anymore, and it's largely because the
construction site makes it just inappropriate. All right, so that ... that's part of
what's involved. So which leads to a question, how do we know that the problem
won't be less serious once the construction is completed? I think it probably will
be less serious once the construction's complete. Last point, prohibiting certain
behaviors on the ped mall will not eliminate the behaviors. It won't eliminate the
problem. It will simply shift the behaviors and the problem to some other part of
the city. So then the question becomes, what will we do for those other parts of
the city? If we adopt this ordinance. So ... those are the points I wanted to make.
Hayek: You know, the ... the pedestrian mall is ... is the quintessential public space in Iowa
City, and ... and literally and figuratively it is the heart of the city, and you have
such dis... such a variety of uses down there and the volume of people going to
the ped mall on a daily basis is remarkable and it's one of the things that makes
Iowa City, uh, stand out, uh, throughout the state. Um, I'm going to support this,
and ... and because of all those uses and ... and because it's the quintessential
public space, balancing those interests and balancing those uses is always a
challenge and it always will be. Um, I think it's a good challenge for a
community to have, because the alternative is ... is a place whose sidewalks are
empty and ... and ... and I'm confident we're never going to have that. I'm going to
support this measure because I don't believe it is draconian. I believe it is, um,
the product of thoughtful, uh, sensitive analysis on the part of staff and the various
other stakeholders who were ... were part of this, uh, process, and I think it's a...
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it's a delicate approach to a difficult situation. Um, and is measured, uh, in ... in
every category. Um, you know, our community is marked by tolerance, but that
tolerance has limits. Um, and I ... and ... and that's why we're having, uh, this
discussion. Um, and ... and, uh, you know, for those who would suggest that this
is merely a bandaid or does not address the more structural issues, urn ... uh, the
deeper issues, uh, that... that... that a portion of the ... the problem, um, relates to.
You know, I ... I encourage you to look at, uh, the ... the funding and the ... and the
other support that the City of Iowa City has provided for years and continues to
this day to provide to the organizations who can address and do address the more
structural problems, um, whether it's social services or mental illness or... or
housing, um, Iowa City does a lot, and it does a heck of a lot more in my
estimation than ... than peer communities do. Um, does ... does this ordinance,
which is designed to address a problem in a particular location or area of...of the
community address those structural issues? No, it's an ordinance and ... and ... and
staff has been clear about that. Are ... are there other structural issues, other deep -
seated community issues that ... that continue to require the attention of and the
resources of...of the community, both public and private, um, absolutely! Um,
but ... but this shouldn't be interpreted as ... as, uh, as getting around those issues or
getting around the fact that ... that we still have work to do, uh, in this region. So,
um, I ... I think this is a very carefully crafted, um, approach, and ... and you can
just ... you can tell, um, by the wording, by ... by the process, and by all of it, and
um, you know, that said, we have two more readings. This is an issue of
importance to the public. It did come up late on the agenda. Uh, I don't think
anyone had an idea that we'd be here at almost midnight. We've been going since
5:00 P.M., um, and ... and uh, there will be, uh, opportunities at the second and
third readings in September and I encourage the community to speak out.
Mims: A lot has already been said, uh, we've been here a long time. I want to say thank
you to the people who are still here tonight. Um, I commend you for your
patience. Um, as Matt said it was a much longer agenda with longer discussions
on some zoning issues I think than we had anticipated this evening. I think a lot
of very good points have been brought up tonight, but I think there are also, and
Matt I think kind of went through a lot of this. There are two very... different, if
you will for me, issues that are in front of us. One is the longer term bigger
picture issues that a number of you have addressed that we are working on, um,
that we will continue to work on and we have to continue with ... with the private
sector, with you know various social issues and social workers and social means,
etc., in terms of the homelessness. I mean people have talked about a wet shelter,
uh, I think there was a lot of interesting ideas brought up, you know, just lockers,
um, dedicated places for people to plug in, you know, their phones and things like
that. Some... some easy fixes, some of them much, much more complicated as
people have talked about. Uh, those who are not ... not necessarily interested or
attuned to getting or accepting assistance out there. Those are the big, big items
that we have to continue as a society to ... to work on. But there's also the idea
that's been mentioned in different ways, and that is the respect and the right that
we all have to use that public space. Um, and the respect and rules that typical
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...typically II think are accepted by most people in terms of how we treat one
another and how we treat our own property, how we treat public property, and I
think what this ordinance does is lays out some of those expectations. It's not
perfect. There's things in here that I, ah, not necessarily crazy about, but again, I
think it's a place to start. We've got a couple more readings and again, as we've
done with some other things, we may come back two months from now and say
let's ... let's make some changes to this. But I think it's reasonable that everybody
can do down and enjoy the ped mall, feel safe, feel comfortable, not be harassed
and so I see this as a place to start on some of those smaller issues, but not at all to
diminish or ... or, uh, minimize the bigger issues that we all have to continue to
work on. So I will support the ordinance.
Dobyns: Sometimes when a door closes a door will open, and I realize the impingement on
this group downtown is sort of like a door closing. But I guess I'd like to focus
on the symmetry of also having a door opening. Um, I'm taking a look at what
Matt alluded to, is that the City has given $350,000 in funding or siphoning
funding to a group of, and I won't go through them, but 19 organizations that I
think address the wide array of needs of this group, and I'm not going to paint this
group with a ... a single brush. I think there are many requirements, um, that this
group of people need. Um, that's what we're doing currently, and I think I'm
proud that Iowa City, um, steps forward more than a lot of different communities.
Having said that, I think the door can be open wider. Tom, Geoff, I don't know if
we're aware of some of the things that Chrissy mentioned in terms of some more
long -term approaches, um, but I'd be interested if, as this goes forward, with uh,
you know, the next, uh, few iterations that we could, you know, probably have
discussions with her about if there's something that we could do to open the door
for this group of people a little bit more. But I'm going to support, um, staff
recommendation.
Hayek: Further discussion? Roll call, please. First consideration passes 6 -1,
Throgmorton in the negative.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Mims: So moved.
Dobyns: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Dobyns. Discussion? All those in favor say aye.
Opposed say nay. Motion carries 7 -0.
Champion: Thanks everybody for coming!
Hayek: Thank you for coming!
Mims: Yes!
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ITEM 15. CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Hayek: Start down with you.
Dobyns: If I talk for seven minutes we'll go past midnight so I ain't gonna! (laughter and
several talking)
Payne: Me either!
Dickens: In case anybody watches the replay of this, uh, the Pathways fundraiser is
Saturday night at the old Highlander, uh, "Men Who Cook." It's a great
fundraiser for the Pathways Adult Daycare.
Hayek: Thank you.
Mims: Nothing!
Champion: I'm afraid I'd never shut up if I started talking. (laughter)
Throgmorton: I'm hugging my laptop cause I'm freezing. (laughter)
Hayek: Two quick things for those of you up watching this television broadcast, uh,
there's a, the grand opening of the Terry Trueblood Recreation Area this
Saturday, uh, from 11:00 to 1:00. It's a fantastic facility; I encourage you to show
up. Secondly, um, thank you to City staff on the response on Washington Street.
Throgmorton: Oh yeah! Absolutely!
Hayek: Um ... uh, there were ... that was a difficult situation for lots of businesses and they
were out there early and ... and throughout the whole ordeal. Public Works did a
great job (noises on mic)
Mims: I would just real quickly (noises on mic) nobody's watching, but thank staff for
their work with the University on Interstate 80 and the DOT and signage and stuff
for move -in that's going on this week for people to find the dorms.
Hayek: Yeah, like the blue signage!
Mims: Yeah, the blue signage on Dodge Street hopefully will help.
Champion: Do you think we could make some ordinance to control the football crowding the
ped mall? (laughter)
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