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ITEM 2. PROCLAMATIONS
ITEM 2a Synthetic Drugs Awareness Week
Hayek: (reads proclamation)
Karr: Here to accept the proclamation is Amy Sorensen, representing the Iowans
Against Synthetics. (applause)
Sorensen: We just want to thank the Council for signing this proclamation today and thank,
uh, Detective Kevin Bailey for all the work he's done partnering with our group.
Um, we are having an open house the 26th of September that lots of community
agencies will be involved in at the Coralville Public Library and I will send
Marian the information for that. If you'd all like to attend, we'd love to have you.
Thanks again!
Hayek: Thank you for being here!
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ITEM 3. CONSIDER ADOPTION OF THE CONSENT CALENDAR AS
PRESENTED OR AMENDED.
Champion: Move adoption.
Mims: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Champion, seconded by Mims. Discussion?
Throgmorton: Matt, when do you want to, uh, sort of gauge ... play by ear (mumbled) gauge, uh,
who might want to speak about particular topics? (both talking) When do you
want to do that?
Hayek: I would suggest we get into it a little farther and uh, see how they're going, and
then if it's moving slowly, then consider a motion to move things up on the
agenda?
Throgmorton: I ask only because I know there are several people in the audience who really
want to speak about that, uh, Item #7, and are worried about not being able to do
so because it might appear too late.
Hayek: Okay. (both talking) Why don't we get (both talking) Yeah, let's ... why don't
we get into the meeting a little farther, and then if it's moving slowly consider a
motion.
Dobyns: Uh huh.
Hayek: Further discussion on Item 3? Roll call, please. Passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 4. COMMUNITY COMMENT (ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA).
Hayek: This is the opportunity at each City Council meeting for members of the public to
bring items to the City Council's attention. If there's something that's not on the
agenda that you'd like to bring to our attention, we invite you to step forward.
We ask that you sign in, verbally give us your name, and limit your comments to
five minutes!
Gravitt: My name is Mary Gravitt. And I'm here about a quality of life, uh, as usual. Um,
a friend of mine, her name is Debbie, she's blind. She's not legally blind. She's
totally blind, and she's deaf in one ear. She was on the Iowa City bus and the
driver wouldn't let her off at Williams. Williams is now ... the stop that was
William is now a detour stop. But, when the bus makes the turn that goes by
Williams and she could get off at the corner. So she was told she couldn't get off
there because it was detoured, it was rush hour. So she saw me on the bus, so
she ... they took her down to the next stop where I get off is Arthur, but that was
two blocks away. Arthur, um, Wayne Avenue on the odd side is two blocks long
because it's broken by Bradford. So we talked for a while and she said, oh, okay,
I can find my way home. She took about four steps from me and went into
somebody's driveway. I said no, no, no, you in the driveway. You have to get
back on the sidewalk. So I was taking her towards her house and then she says,
oh, I can make it from here. We got to Bradford Street. Then she starts down
Bradford ... I said no, you can't go down there, and she had her, uh, GPS locator
which was giving her the wrong direction, told her she lived east when she lived
west. I said can't you feel the sun on your face. She said no. Then she started
going the other way. She was going to go on Wayne and Wayne is a definitely
dangerous street because people drive down there like they're driving down 1 -80.
So then I had to walk her up to Williams Street and she told me she could find her
way home from there, but what I was so angry about, here's this woman — blind,
dark glasses, white cane — wanting to get off at Williams Street, when she could
have gotten off at Williams Street, because it's a corner. It's a fireplug right on
that corner, but because of the policy of Iowa City Transit, she was not allowed to
get off. Now it was a hot day. I had my groceries, and I got very, very angry at
the ... at the Transit company. I went back home and I called. So I was transferred
to a manager. The manager hasn't called me yet, and it's been like almost two
weeks. So I ... I just ... was very, because Debbie is disabled. She's blind. If you
do that to a blind person, what will you do to a sighted person? So that's my first
quality of life, and ... and besides that, Williams Street detour, it was never ... we
were never notified in the neighborhood that was going to be a detour. The detour
disappeared like magic! So this is what I want to take up with the Transit
company and that's the second time the Transit company did something like that,
that the supervisors won't call you back. And to have this done to her, and my
second quality of life ... is the bullying down at the Senior Center. There's this
man, he comes in to the Senior Center. He's supposed to be a member. He goes
into the billiard room, the pool room, and he turns the TV on loud. And then he
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pretends he's asleep. He wants to intimidate the people that are there. Okay, so
he'll sit there and ... and the people are afraid of him because his hobby is, uh,
suing people. So he comes in and he ... he wants to be a disturbance. He wants to
establish a Jim Crow policy down at the Senior Center. I'm one of the few black
people who go there, and he doesn't want `those' people there. So he can't stir up
lynch mob down there, but he can terrify `em. They're afraid to tell anybody.
Afraid to tell the people in charge. So last week ... Johnson County had a meeting
down at the Senior Center. It wasn't, not many people turned out. So I was there
because I got the misinformation that the Center (mumbled) the ... the
Congressman Loebsack was going to be there, but he wasn't there. So they did...
had the discussion. So it was over about 11:00, and about 1 1:00 this guy he
comes in and he's all heated up, where was the meeting? Okay? He ... the
meeting was over! So he goes in there and happens that IPR and CBS was there,
and he goes and tells `em how he is discriminated against by the people at the
Center, by the members. He singled out this woman, she's 90- years -old, that uh,
you know, how he's mistreated. Now this is the same man that called me a
"Chicago nigger bitch" in the computer room. Now I didn't get to him like I
wanted to get to him because, hey, I was trying to be middle class and I want to
uphold the honor of the black people, but I wanted to get with him! Now here's
this black man trying to claim discrimination. He can call me a "Chicago nigger
bitch" and he can go to IPR and CBS and have the old people terrified down there
that they're gonna get sued if they should say something to him. And it's like,
you know, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, who you gonna tell? You go down
there, you say something, and they talk to you like you're... they're case workers,
you know, like you don't have good sense, you don't know. It's the same way
they tried to put that woman in Johnson County who lives in Iowa City! Now... I
want something done about this man. Because if he tries to attack me ... hey, I'm
...I'm too old to fight, too crippled to run, and the next thing for me is get myself
a gun, and I'm sorry! But if he is nothing done with that man and he can come in
and terrify people 90 -years -old. This woman that he really terrified, she's 90-
years -old. She's a lovely person. She volunteers at the ... at the Center, but this is
what you gotta put up, and this is supposed to be a protected, uh, area in the city.
Thank you!
Hayek: Thank you. Tom, could you be sure staff (mumbled) response on the Transit,
Senior Center issues (both talking)
Markus: We will!
Hayek: Anyone else during community comment?
Mahler: My name is Elaine (mumbled) I'd like to address the lack of affordable housing in
this city. I've lived here for ... almost 12 years. I was married for many of those,
but now I'm divorced. I'm a single person. I work part-time. I make a couple
dollars an hour over minimum wage. My total income is $1,100 a month. I can't
afford to spend half of that on an apartment. That doesn't leave me money for
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food. So, I need there to be more apartments that are in the $300 range. I've
looked for a new place to live. I'm currently paying almost $600 month for my
apartment and I can't get on a Section 8. They're not taking applications right
now. They haven't been since I started looking at the web site several months
ago. There isn't a place that I can move because nobody wants a renter with a pet
and my pet is like a child to me. I cannot give her up. And I think
that... the... there... there just needs to be more housing that's available for less
than $600 a month. Something along $300 would be more what I could afford but
it doesn't exist in this town. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments. Is there anyone else who would like to address
the Council during community comment?
Ross: With your permission my name is Brandon Ross. I live on, uh, 1822 Rochester
Avenue. I, uh, I'm here tonight to, uh, to speak out against the considerations for
going, uh, to war in Syria, which I believe affects, uh, this city and other cities,
and urn ... I feel that, uh, for the United States to consider going, uh, off to a
foreign country to go on a bombing expedition to send... send our poorest people,
our working class people, our good people in our communities and John...
Johnson County, uh, to go to a foreign country like we did with Iraq and we did
with Afghanistan, uh, when we can't take care of our own people at home, when
there're people on the streets, when people can't afford their rents, uh, when,
uh ... when people do not have jobs, when there is violence on our own streets,
when poverty is great, when ... uh, when all the money is ... is all up in the ... in the
top 1 — 2% and ... and there's very little down below and uh ... which creates
violence, uh, in our own country. I do not think that we should be policing or
nannying some other country that we have no particular ties to, other than, uh, and
foreign relations. I think it's the wrong thing to do. I listen, uh, on the radio and I
can't believe that we're even considering this, uh, when recently, uh, in our
second largest city we closed down 50 schools. Fifty schools in Chicago have
been closed. Teachers have been fired. These were all in the poorest and
working class schools. Uh ... Rahm Emanuel, the ... the Mayor of Chicago has
done so. Do we not think that this does cause violence? That this causes unrest in
our own country? Are we not suffering from these ... these very same things? Can
we talk about cutting Social Security? Can we talk about cutting Medicare and
cutting education costs, even in our own town where we consider we may have to
close schools, yet we are considering going off to war with a foreign country. I
listen to John McCain, uh, who speaks about going off to war in Syria, a man who
is so wealthy that during an interview, during presidential election time, he
admitted to not really remembering how many houses that he had earned, yet he is
the first ... that he had owned, uh, he doesn't re ... he didn't remember. I don't
think if you, you know, you should be able to remember that moment. It was very
fascinating... that he is the first one in line to go to war, uh, that we should go out
there. I say that if we wish to set an example for the world, if... if the United
States wants to be respected, that we should take care of our own and stop
bombing other people, that even in our own city, even in Iowa City which is in
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better shape than a lot of cities in this state, which is in better shape than a lot of
cities in the Midwest as far as economics — we can do better! We have people
here who can't afford to live in apartments. We're building... we're building
high -rises without affordable housing. Uh, we still have people on the streets and
uh, and under the bridges in ... in this town. That's unthinkable to me! I bring up
the Syria situation because we have so much to do at home that results in, uh, we
could result in so much good. We have so much death that occurs, so much
violence that occurs right here that we can do better, and sometimes I wake up in
the morning I hear the news and I think, who are we really at war with? I think
that the only countries that we should be invading are the bank accounts and the
tax shelters of those who are in the top 1% and bring the money back down, from
the rich, who can hire and won't hire, you know, the rich who own all the media,
the rich who own the media that told us to go to war in Iraq and in Afghanistan
before when there were no weapons of mass destruction. I say respectfully to the
Council, please regard, uh, this decision to go to Syria, speak out, uh, to the
people of Iowa City. Please be aware of this, that it does not do the real people in
this country any good, or the people in Iowa City and Johnson County any good,
and I just want to say that. Thank you so much for your time.
Hayek: Thank you for the comments!
Knight: Um, sorry, hang on! (pause) Sorry (mumbled) label but there's no more! Um...
I came down here last week, or two weeks ago, um, about...
Hayek: Mr. Knight, could you give us your name again for the ... viewers?
Knight: Oh yeah! I'm Bob (mumbled) No just kidding! (laughs) I'm Roger Knight.
Um ... I just wanted to, um, kind of re -speak what I was talking about last week.
Um, the sidewalks still have potholes, um ... you know, it does damage to
wheelchairs. Um, just something to think about there and urn ... I know the Police
Department's not going to like it, but... sorry! Um, there's times where I almost
need a calendar to see how it is before I see a police officer downtown! That's
not good! And we're talking about how ... how is the University of Iowa... no, the
number one party school. Really? Nobody knows? Let's go downtown. I bet
you I can't count how many bars on one hand. Anybody want to take that bet?
The thing is that you've got party school, you know, readiness here. I can go to
dang near any store anymore and buy a beer or wine or ... well, you're not going to
stop a party school when alcohol is that free. I mean, what we need, beer water
fountains downtown in the Old Cap? I mean, where we gonna stop? I mean, sure
we'll make money! We'll get people there drunk, causing trouble, we'll make
tickets and ... wait, that don't sound good! And another thing to think about and
maybe it hasn't been brought up because people don't think about it. We're
spending our money to go who knows where into who knows bank account for
homeowner's insurance, renter's insurance, because we don't have enough
firefighters and we don't have enough police officers. Let's bring that money
back here. Know insurance might go down. That might help with the renter, uh,
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the cost of rent. It is way too high. $700 for a one - bedroom? Hey, uh, folks,
there's no gold in the wall. (laughs) Just wanted to let you know! Where...
where's the, where's it gonna end? We give millions of dollars away to people
like Moen, to make these ugly skyscrapers. Sorry, they're not good lookin' ! For
what? Sure the hotel veto or whatever, Hotel V, we'll just call it that! Sure, you
know, you got the Bread Garden in there. Sure that helps with downtown but...
you still have umpteen number bars downtown to cause trouble. We need to start
getting' rid of some of these bars, bring people back to downtown to not drink!
Spend! Enjoy life! Drop rent! And stop bring, you know, catering to the ... the,
uh, University students who are here for four years? How much damage do we
need from them before they head off? Where ... where is the number? You know,
the thing is let's start thinking about this, let's start fixin' this city, and let's start
doing it the right way. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments. Is there anyone else who would like to address
the Council during community comment? Okay, we'll move on to Item 5,
Planning and Zoning Items.
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ITEM 5. PLANNING AND ZONING MATTERS
ITEM 5a PALISADES SUBDIVISION SENSITIVE AREAS PLAN -
REZONING 13.07 -ACRES OF LAND LOCATED AT 1729 DUBUQUE
ROAD FROM LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS -5) TO PLANNED
DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY LOW DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (OPD -5)
ZONE. (REZ11- 00010) [Discussion only at formal meeting]
1. PUBLIC HEARING
Hayek: This is a public hearing. The public hearing is open. (bangs gavel) Before we
get a presentation from staff, uh, are there any ex parte communications to
discuss?
Mims: Yes, uh, Rick Dobyns and I walked the property yesterday and were discussing
with each other the issues of, uh, sensitive areas and sensitive slopes, and I think
had a brief conversation actually with the Mayor and the City Manager this
morning, uh, regarding the same thing.
Dobyns: And I discussed the areas of the, uh, sensitive areas with Ann Freerks, uh, the
Chairperson of Planning and Zoning.
Throgmorton: You suffered a burr attack too, didn't you?
Mims: Yes we did (laughter)
Champion: Right!
Dobyns: Lots of burrs! (laughter)
Champion: I have to admit that I have looked at this land. I walked it, uh, with a contractor
because I'm actually very interested in buying a lot there. Does that give me a
conflict of interest?
Mims: I live on Oaks Drive. You can't live out there! (laughter)
Hayek: Any other communications to disclose? Okay. Staff. Jeff?
Davidson: Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Members of the City Council. I'm Jeff Davidson,
the Director of Planning, uh ... for the City. With me tonight is, uh, Bob Miklo,
Senior Planner. Bob's also going to, uh, assist with staff report this evening. Uh,
Item 5a as the Mayor has indicated is a request from Allen Homes of Iowa City,
Iowa. Uh, they are requesting a rezoning and sensitive areas development plan.
Also a preliminary plat. The plat won't ... won't appear til your, after your third
reading. Uh, the purpose is to establish a 32 -lot subdivision with three outlots,
um, at 1729 N. Dubuque Road. The size of the property, which you see here in
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the cross - hatched, uh, is approximately 13 acres. Uh, here is an aerial view. Uh,
you can see the existence of some of the sensitive features, uh, the steep slopes
and woodlands, which Bob is going to address in just a moment. Uh, here is the
proposed plat. Just to orient you — Oaks Drive, uh, this is Dubuque Road, not
Dubuque Street but Dubuque Road. The north Dodge HyVee would be off to the
south end of the map here. You see the interior subdivision streets. The
connection to Oaks Drive, which occurs at the property line right here, and Bob
will speak to, uh, some of the issues associated with that connection. You will see
a portion of that is on the neighboring property, which Bob will address. Uh, you
can see the 32 -lot single - family subdivision here. There are three outlots — outlot
A right here would be, uh, for storm water management. Outlot B, uh, will be
dedicated as a public park, uh, our City, uh, inventory identifies this as an area in
need of a park. The Parks and Recreation Commission, uh, has received a
presentation on this outlot and indicated they would gladly accept it, uh, as ... in...
as a way of fulfilling the open space requirement for the subdivision. There is
also a very small outlot right here, uh, which will eventually be the mayor, uh, the
mailbox cluster (laughter)
Hayek: I hope that's not what I turn into!
Davidson: ... so... (laughter) outlot... outlot A, outlot B, and little bitty outlot C right there.
Uh, two interior streets that, um ... uh, will connect to Dubuque Road then and
provide access to the subdivision. You can also see there's a stubbed street right
here to the property. Uh, to the west would be a challenging property to, uh,
develop, uh, under the sensitive areas ordinance, but we have allowed for that
potential, uh, to occur, and there will be a turnaround constructed here, uh, for the
Fire Department. Uh, with that, um... if you read the minutes of the Planning and
Zoning Commission meeting, uh, most of the discussion was in regards to the
sensitive features and the sensitive areas development plan and I'm ... because of
the, um... discussion we had at the last meeting, uh, regarding the, uh, item which
follows on your agenda this evening, uh, and the sensitive areas ordinance,
thought it might be helpful just to have Bob go into a little bit more detail, uh,
with respect to this project.
Miklo: Yeah, sensitive areas ordinance was adopted in 19, uh, 95. Um, it was, uh, in
response to a, uh, couple of developments that resulted in severe erosion and
resulted to damage to adjacent neighboring properties, uh, as well as a ... a public
street. Um, the ordinance was ... was also written to implement the, um...
environmental policies of the Comprehensive Plan and to preserve, uh, scenic
areas. Uh, the regulations address, um, development of properties that contain a
number of sensitive areas, and here's a, uh, a... a citywide map showing where
many of those sensitive areas are. Uh, there's a section of the ordinance that
addresses, uh, wetlands, shown here in ... in blue, or potential wetlands are shown
in blue. And uh ... what we regulate there are ... are wetlands that are determined
to be jurisdictional wetlands by the Army Corps of Engineers. Uh, in addition to
the federal regulations, the City's regulations require a buffer around the... those
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wetlands when development occurs. Uh, the ordinance also addresses, uh, stream
corridors, which is Ralston Creek and then of course the Iowa River. Uh, it
requires a... a buffer between development activity and... and those bodies of
water. Uh, the ordinance addresses, uh ... uh, steep slopes and we have three
categories of steep slopes. We have, um, just the regular steep slopes, which are
18 to 24 %. Uh, critical slopes, which are 24 to 40% and protected slopes, which
are 40% or greater, um, and those, uh, areas of slopes are shown in orange and
yellow, uh, on this ... on this map. The, um, ordinance also addresses woodland
and a ... a woodland is defined as a ... an area containing over two acres of...of
forest trees. Um, and as a sub - category of that, the ordinance, uh, regulates
groves of trees, which are defined as groups of 10 or more trees, at least a foot in
di ... diameter. Um, the ordinance also addresses hydric soils which are shown in
green, uh, on the map, and there the ... the idea isn't so much to set those off from
development, but to assure, uh, that when development occurs, the streets have
adequate drainage and the infrastructure's built, uh, to, uh, to take into account
those ... those wet areas. Um, and then the ordinance addresses prairie remnants.
We only have a few identified, uh, in the city. These are areas that are thought to
be undisturbed native prairies. And finally the ordinance addresses archeological
sites, uh, such as Native American burial grounds, and there are a few identified,
uh, sites in... in... in the city. The overall intent of the regulations, uh, it's not to
prevent development of ac ... of properties containing these ... these areas, uh, but
to take these areas into account when designing subdivisions and... and
developments. Um ... in ... in the early process, uh, the ordinance requires the
developer and staff and Planning and Zoning Commission, uh, to look at, uh,
designing around, um, those features, uh, and to avoid, um, creating unstable
situations, uh, that might result in erosion or ... or ... or mudslides. Um... and the
ordinance also provides for mitigation of disturbance of those areas when the
situation or the property is ... is, uh, of such that it can't be avoided or that those
areas can't be avoided. Um ... there are two levels of review according to the
sensitive areas ordinance. The first level is staff level. Um, and if a developer
brings in a plan that shows compliance with all the requirements, uh, basically
they ... the sensitive areas are being, uh, avoided, um, then staff approves that as
part of the regular development process and those don't come before the Planning
and Zoning Commission and Council. But the ordinance also recognizes there are
going to be some properties, uh, that because of their features or their surrounding
areas, it... it won't be possible to allow a reasonable level of development, unless
there is some disturbance, uh, of... of sensitive areas. And those we call level 2,
and those get bumped up to the Planning and Zoning Commission and City
Council for review, uh, to take into account how, uh, disturbance of those areas
can be minimized or if they have to be disturbed, uh, what can be done to ... to
mitigate the ... the impact. There are ... are generally four types of sensitive areas,
um, that come before you under that level 2 review. Uh, one would be the
disturbance of a wetland or a wetland buffer, and you've had a few of those
recently. Uh, another would be removal of more than 50% of a woodland on a
property, and we have a ... a ... a, one of those on your agenda tonight. Um ... uh,
another would be grading of more than 35% of the critical slopes on ... on a
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property, and we have two of those on your agenda, and uh, finally the ... the third
one that comes before you is disturbance of a protected slope, uh, buffer. In, uh,
some cases the City allows transfer of development away from those sensitive
areas to other portions of the property and those also come before you because
they result in some variation or modification of the underlying zoning
requirements, in order to cluster development away from the ... from the sensitive
areas. The, uh, first case before you, the ... the Palisades is on your agenda
because there are ... are two aspects of the sensitive areas ordinance, uh, in effect
here. Um, the uh ... uh, first is there's a disturbance of more than 35% of the
critical slopes on the property. Uh, this, uh, overhead shows where there are
critical slopes that are proposed to be disturbed in order to allow this development
to occur. Uh, the second, uh, reason this is before you is because more than 50%
of the woodlands... in the aerial photograph shows the, uh, the woodland of over
two acres on the property, uh, that would be disturbed in order to allow this
development to occur. There are also, uh, groves of trees or other areas of trees
on the property that, uh, aren't regulated as ... as woodlands. There are, uh, two
conditions on this property, uh, that, um ... result in ... in what staff and the
Planning and Zoning Commission felt like a reasonable, um, disturbances of the
... of the sensitive areas. When Oaks Drive was platted back in 1980, it was
designed to continue on to, uh, Dubuque Street. It ... it dead -ends here. Right at
the head of a... of a critical slope and a... and a woodland. Um, the
Comprehensive Plan identifies this connection... as shown on the plat as a ... as a
critical piece of infrastructure for this ... this neighborhood. Uh, it will allow a
second means of access to over 80 homes that are ... are in this area, and provide
for a... a connection in the neighborhood. Uh, but more importantly it will
provide a different, or it's a second, uh, emergency route in and out of this ... this
neighborhood. In order for that connection to occur, the critical slopes and
woodlands in this area would need ... need to be disturbed. Uh, the other area of
critical slopes to be disturbed and woodlands is this point here, which is one of the
low spots, or the ... the low spot, uh, within the development. When we (clears
throat) looked at the design of this subdivision, it was determined that this was,
uh, the place to put storm water management. Um... in order to put a storm water
management basin here, the woodlands and ... and the ... the steep, uh ... uh, slopes
must ... must be graded. We had looked at, uh, possibly working with the adjacent
property owner and putting the storm water management on adjacent property.
We explored that with the developer, the Planning and Zoning Commission, uh,
and the adjacent property owner. In the end, there was not an agreement on how
that could be done and, um ... it was decided that the ... in the best ... the best place
for the storm water was on this property itself. The City doesn't have the bil...
the ability to force the adjacent property owner to enter into an agreement to put
the storm water, uh, on their property. Um ... and ... there ... there just did not seem
to be a ... an alternative. We did look at possibly clustering development so that
the, uh, not as much of the site would be disturbed, but even doing that, the storm
water still had to come to this area, the low spot in the development. So there...
there are two reasons why we feel that this is a reasonable level of disturbance of
these environmentally sensitive areas. The connection of Oaks Drive and storm
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water. Both critical infrastructure for this neighborhood if it's ... if it's going to,
uh, continue to develop. Um... and again, both the staff and Planning and Zoning
Commission, after looking at several alternatives, came to this ... this same
conclusion. The, uh, I'd be happy to try to answer any questions you have
up ... up to this point.
Throgmorton: I'd like to ask you a question, Bob. Do you have a ... a map showing a ... a larger
portion of the surrounding neighborhood? Could you bring `em up ... up a map
that does that?
Miklo: Sure. This ... this was a ... another factor in ... in terms of staff's recommendation.
If...if you look at the amount of woodland being disturbed, in relationship to the
larger woodland throughout the area, it's ... it's a fairly small percentage. Um,
most of this woodland will not be, and these critical slopes, won't be developable.
There isn't a... a way of providing sewer or sanitary sewer or street access to this
...this area, so much of this will remain undisturbed.
Mims: Well where you had your arrow just now is also City property.
Miklo: Uh yes (both talking) this ... this was dedicated, um, and set aside as part of the
Oaks development.
Throgmorton: Yeah, the reason I wanted you to show the map, Bob, was because at least when I
looked at a different version of the same, uh, part of the city, it looked to me like
the roads just to the north of Oaks Drive, and I don't remember the name of the
road. I'm blanking out on that. Uh, that that road ... too, uh, comes to a dead -end.
There's not an extension for it, so it looks to me like that road has ... if there's a
significant problem on Oaks Drive right now with regard to ... not being connected
back to north Dubuque and if there's a problem with regard to fire service and so
on on that road, then it would be even more so for the other road.
Mims: Bristol.
Throgmorton: So ... Bristol, is that what... Bristol. So why is Bristol, or am I right in assuming
Bristol's not a problem but Oaks is? Why is that?
Mims: It all comes out onto Oaks. The only way that Bristol can get out is through Oaks.
Quincent and Bristol all connect through Oaks.
Miklo: (both talking) ...has one point of access.
Mims: Yeah. I ... I'm assuming some day that that section of Bristol is expected to
connect to the other section of Bristol, but I think there's a property owner in the
middle right now that's not amenable to selling (both talking)
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Miklo: ...that Bristol is extended back to Dubuque Road, but we've had no development
proposals.
Throgmorton: I'm looking at the stub up at the top.
Mims: Right.
Throgmorton: That's the part I'm focusing on.
Mims: Uh huh.
Throgmorton: That currently ends. Are there currently plans in the Comprehensive Plan or
anywhere else showing that road being extended somewhere else, to link up with
some other road.
Miklo: No. To the west, no, there's... there's...
Throgmorton: Okay, so that ... that's a stub that's no worse than Oaks Drive is, right now. Am I
right?
Miklo: This contributes to the traffic onto Oaks Drive.
Throgmorton: At ... at the very end of Oaks Drive, yeah, I ... obviously that must be true, at the
very ... I guess it's the eastern end of Oaks Drive. But if...if you extend Oaks
Drive on around to connect with north Dubuque, that's not going to improve
anything on Bristol Drive.
Miklo: I believe it would. In the event that there's a ... there is a closure here, there'll be a
second way into the subdivision.
Throgmorton: Yeah, sorry, I'm not persuaded that that would be beneficial, but you ... but you've
answered my question. Thanks (mumbled) showed to me in the map. Thanks.
Hayek: Any other questions for Bob?
Dobyns: Bob, if you can keep that up, urn ... where Oaks Drive, um, where it ends, and then
when it begins to turn, when we walked there yesterday, where it begins to turn
back toward Dubuque Road is right at that gully, and my question was that I
assume that if you breach a gully with a new development in the middle of the
gully, that's more problematic. As I was walking there, the dark line is where the
gully is, but as you walk there, it seems where the ... Oaks Drive will ... would be
turning. It's sort of the end of the gully. That's really where it starts to get, uh,
sloppy and... and deeper. I assume that if you fill in the beginning of a gully,
that's about as problematic as if you, uh, filled in, you know, farther proximal or
farther down the gully, cause that's where the gully starts — right there. Is that...
is that require a significant amount of mitigation if you do that?
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Miklo: In terms of.. 1 believe (both talking)
Dobyns: Well, yeah, go back to that black, on the portion (both talking)
Miklo: There will be some grading in this area in order to create a, uh, a stable, uh, bank
to build Oaks Drive on.
Dobyns: But there isn't much gully to the east of that.
Miklo: No. This ... this is, this is basically the beginning of the ravine.
Dobyns: So I assume the impact, because of the location of that, is not as major. (both
talking)
Miklo: It would certainly be ... require more grading and more disturbance if...if Oaks
Drive was farther to the west.
Dobyns: Okay.
Mims: And that ravine is considered critical slopes, not protected. Is that correct?
Miklo: That's correct.
Mims: Thank you.
Dobyns: I don't understand... the turnaround on, I don't know what the new road on the
south is going to be. Jeff mentioned there was going to be, there's not really room
for a cul -de -sac option there, I can see that, but ... there was a ... there's a
turnaround option for a (both talking)
Miklo: Yeah, there ... there will be a hammer -head design to allow a, uh, fire truck to get
out without having to back all the way out.
Hayek: Other questions for Bob? (coughing on mic)
Throgmorton: Not a question but I'd just like to note that when the ordinance was adopted in
1995, one of the motivating factors was to preserve woodlands because there had
been a draft woodland ordinance that had been circulated, was being worked on,
was very controversial. So the Council that I was sitting on at that time brought
developers and preservationists together and they worked, uh, to develop
collaboratively an approach to permitting development that would not harm
natural areas or in some cases require some harm in order to also provide room
for development, but it was a collaborative effort that was really accomplished as
a form of compromise after a great deal of negotiation. So I recall the spirit of the
ordinance very, very clearly.
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Miklo: And I, uh, would agree with that, um, and there was ... there was a committee
that ... that worked with staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission to draft
the ordinance, and one of the provisions was that if you, uh, have a woodland and
it's a residential area, there should be an attempt to preserve 50% of the
woodland, but recognizing that would not be possible in all cases because of
topographic conditions or street networks, the ordinance allows for more than
50% of the woodland to be disturbed, with the approval ... the review of the
Planning and Zoning Commission and approval of the Council, and something I
neglected to mention, it does require that replacement trees be, uh, planted in lieu
of that woodland and this plan does provide for I believe the, uh, planting of
roughly 300 replacement trees.
Hayek: Any other questions for staff? Okay, thanks, Bob. (mumbled) stick around. This
is a public hearing. Is there anyone from the audience ... can certainly step
forward.
Allen: Hi, I'm Jessie Allen. I'm here, uh, as the developer for Palisades development.
Um, we've worked very hard over the past couple years trying to bring a... a
concept to you ... you Council Members and May ... and Mayor that would work
for the surrounding neighbors and ... and for the people that want to move into this
neighborhood as ... as new homeowners, um, coming back to Iowa City or moving
in to a new home. Um, we have had several, uh, friendly- neighbor meetings at
the Library or at the surrounding elementary schools. We've gotten some good
feedback. We did have, um, one of the neighbors speak at the last Council
meeting, so that's kind of good to hear. Some of the things that we have changed
— we did bring this to, um, Planning and Zoning Commission about a year ago,
after working on it for about nine to ten months, and we were able to ... we moved
the park to the south and we took some curb cuts. We eliminated some lots that
were directly entering off of Dubuque Road, which we feel would eliminate, you
know, the surrounding neighbors that are ... are currently living on Dubuque Road
and we also did, uh, align the new street. Um, Lisa Ziniel lives kind of right on
Dubuque Road where ... where our entrance for the phase one of the development
would be. We ended up moving that street north to kind of accommodate any
traffic that they would encounter there. So we ... we feel we've worked pretty
hard with the surrounding neighbors. Bob did a great job talking about the
sensitive areas. We ... we've brought a lot of different concepts to City staff and
engineers to try to work through some of these issues and we feel that this is a
really good concept that we can move forward with.
Mims: Jessie, I've got a couple of questions. As you drive along north Dubuque Road,
um, along this property, there's some areas that, uh, the property right, comes
right up to the street and is probably about six feet or higher above the street.
What's the plan on grading up to Dubuque Road?
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Allen: Um ... that top soil will be removed and then placed back on the new earth that
we're going to cut that down so that it's ... it's level like a, you know, we've got to
have like a quarter per foot for the City sidewalk...
Mims: Okay.
Allen: ...so we ... when we do the regarding of the future City park, that will be ... I
believe ... on ... 202 feet. It'll be like 6 -feet of fall, which is going to be pretty flat
which Parks and Rec are going to, uh, like, and we're going to try to
accommodate that with some new, uh, City, um, trees as well, as part of our tree
replacement.
Mims: So basically you'll be regarding... you'll be grading up to north Dubuque Road so
that it's ... kind of level with the street, close to the street. Is that what you're
saying, I mean...
Allen: Yep!
Mims: Okay. Okay. Um ... secondly, I'm assuming and maybe this is better for staff, I
don't know. In terms of storm sewers, as you go down Oaks Drive from the new
part of Oaks Drive, back towards, uh, the west, I'm assuming there will be a
number of storm sewers, and ... and I raise the question because where I live on
Oaks Drive, and live at about the lowest point on Oaks Drive right now and when
that part of Oaks Drive was developed, the City regulations did not require storm
sewers to be taken to the lowest level. So what used to be a ravine that you could
drive a tractor through is now about 20 -feet deep because of the erosion over the
last 26 years that we've been in our house. And uh, it was just ... as we were
talking about it this morning, my husband said, uh, we're not going to get any
more water down (laughs) down here through our, I mean, it ... I just ... I want to
make sure that as that elevation comes down that there are plenty of storm sewers
to take the water off that street before it goes ... back to the curve on Oaks Drive.
Throgmorton: Where are you referring to on the map?
Mims: I am the fourth property in on the left -hand side of Oaks Drive. That ... that, kind
of biggest white area is our yard. Yeah, you can't see it from that, on that one.
Um...
Hayek: Can you go back to the aerial?
Throgmorton:... go back to where you were (several talking)
Mims: Yeah, if...00ps!
Dobyns: Now I know where to go for (both talking)
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Mims: I'm ... I'm at...at the very end of the horseshoe, if you will, that kind of white blob
there. That's our property. That's... that's our...
Throgmorton:... goes downhill and then comes back up a little bit?
Mims: Well we're surrounded by ravines on all three sides of our property. Um...
Champion: (mumbled) eroding into your property, is it?
Mims: No, it's going to the City storm sewer, but when it comes out the end of the storm
sewer, it has eroded that ravine by at least 20 feet over the last 20 years, 26 years.
And so the elevation on Oaks is going to ... go down. We're going ... still be the
lowest property, and we're just... want to make sure there's plenty of storm
sewers along there to help divert that water from coming back to that storm sewer
at the lowest level. That's my point.
Allen: To answer your question, something that we have done to accommodate that is
with the storm water retention, that's outlot A.
Mims: Uh huh.
Allen: We have the majority of the streets on the south of the development that we can
drain to that, and anything underground that we can put in the storm sewer we
will be releasing at the normal rate of flow.
Mims: Uh huh.
Allen: I have an engineer here from MMS that could speak further if you wanted it
answered a little bit better, but Ron is also here from the City, and then there is
storm sewers on both sides of the street, in front of lot 24, if you can see that,
which will pick up any surface water that would come down the street. There also
is storm... storm, uh, sewers going up the street as well.
Mims: Okay.
Allen: On Oaks, that will pick up (both talking)
Mims: So there will be one in front of 24. Okay. Thank you.
Allen: Both sides of the street.
Hayek: Any other questions for Mr. Allen?
Dobyns: Was a nice garden back there, Jessie. You'll have to go to the Farmers Market
more often now! (laughter)
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Allen: Sor... sorry about the burrs. We didn't quite get it mowed (laughter)
Mims: We were back in the woods! (laughter)
Allen: Glad you guys got to take a look at it. Thanks!
Hayek: Would anyone else like to address the Council during this hearing?
Frey: Good evening, everyone. I'm Anthony Frey and my wife and I are property
owners to the west. Uh, we have already signed an agreement to, um, donate the
land to connect Oaks Drive. Um, we're in favor of the plan as it is. We hope that
you might be. We've got a lot of trees and at the Planning and Zoning meeting I
offered that, uh, Jessie could come with his tree spade and harvest some
appropriate trees, to move them to do tree replacement, rather than getting them
from a nursery that might come from wherever. If the trees are grown right there,
they should be compatible with the Iowa climate. With all the trees there, if there
has to be some reduction in the woodland, hopefully maybe some of ours will
help. Um, we've owned the property just to the west since 1978. We're probably
not what you'd call developer. If you would like to compliment us, you could call
us preservationists. (laughter) So when the preservationists and the developers
meet, we're glad to be there too. Would you have any questions for me?
Hayek: When you say your property is to the west, is it ... (several talking)
Frey: Do I have something here that I can point with?
Dobyns: What street do you live on? (several talking)
Throgmorton: Maybe you can see that other map (several talking)
Mims: ...to the left of the development, that's all his right there.
Hayek: Okay.
Frey: Okay. Um ... this would be one corner right there, and then the property line runs
to the west. Now going directly north, about 700 feet, this is another corner.
Hayek: Okay.
Frey: And then going this way. Now if we can go to that, um, bigger view that Mr.
Throgmorton wanted. This shows even more clearly, um, the 18 acres. This is it
right ... right there.
Dobyns: And ... that's the land ... you own? Currently?
Frey: Yes.
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Dobyns: And you ... (mumbled) Bob that, well I know it's not relevant to this discussion
(mumbled) outside the zoning consideration, but that (both talking)
Frey: ... somewhere the arrow disappeared. What did I do wrong? (laughter) Do I
have to click on the left hand?
Throgmorton: Ate the arrow!
Frey: Okay, so it's got a little piece up there that's, uh, just to the west of your property.
Is that right?
Mims: Yeah, actually mine's ... now that I look at that, mine's the next one over. (both
talking)
Frey: This one right there?
Mims: Yep!
Frey: Sorry! I made a mistake.
Mims: That's okay. (laughs) I made a mistake earlier!
Frey: (both talking)
Champion: He's not really sure where she lives. (laughter)
Frey: Okay. Um ... while we're looking at who lives where, we're down here. On
Caroline Court. So, um ... as I said, uh, we ... in 1978 bought this 15 acres and then
later added the little 2.7.
Champion: I know exactly where you're at now! Now I've got my bearings.
Frey: Would ... would you have any questions?
Champion: No. I used to live on Caroline Court too.
Frey: Okay!
Hayek: Thank you for your comments, sir!
Frey: Thank you for your time!
Dilkes: Uh, just for the record, we should note that Council Member Mims' home is
outside the 200 -foot protest area.
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Hayek: Would anyone else like to address the Council before I close the public hearing?
Okay. Uh, before I do so I need to take the temperature of the Council. Are we
inclined to go with the Planning and Zoning recommendation?
Throgmorton: I might vote against it but I want to hear conversation.
Hayek: Okay. So there appears to be one against, tentatively. Okay. I will close the
public hearing. (bangs gavel)
2. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Dobyns: Consider first consideration.
Mims: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Dobyns, seconded by Mims. Discussion?
Mims: Um, I'll start. And, you know, it's just acknowledged and I acknowledged earlier
I live on Oaks Drive, so if there's anybody, uh, sitting here up on the Council who
might be adverse to this, I'm probably one of those most inclined to be. Um, just
to give a little bit of context to it. Um, I grew up in a very rural area, uh,
Vermont, on a dairy farm with about as much woods and rural land as you can ask
for, and so that's... that's very important to me, and one of the reasons that we
purchased this property, uh, 27 years ago, been in our house 26, was combination
of the location, uh, no neighbors behind us, ever, and the size of the lot and the
woods, um, I go out there and walk that every day, morning and night usually on
trails that we have, uh, through the woods. So that's... something that I value, um,
very significantly. Um, as I mentioned earlier, Rick Dobyns and I, uh, walked
some of this property that's ... that we're considering for rezoning, uh, yesterday.
Because of the concern with the woodlands, um, and the slopes in terms of what
was going to happen. Uh, in addressing the woodland issue first, and I think a
number of people have talked about this, um, we're addressing it because it's over
the two acres, but I think when you look at it in the context of the amount of
woodlands that are in this part of Iowa City, uh, there is a lot of woods. I mean,
you look at that, the map that's up there right now, um, basically everything as
you go north between Prairie du Chien and Oaks Drive and then in between Oaks
Drive and Bristol and Quincent, and then all the way out to the interstate is
virtually all woodland. Okay? And ... so there's lots of woods out there. Um,
secondly with the slopes, again as Rick and I walked that, in looking at the fill
that is going to have to be done right there with the extension of Oaks Drive, it...
it's a critical slope, uh, there is a ravine there. I would say, you know, I think
Rick alluded to earlier, you're talking about it's kind of at the head of the ravine
where it actually comes off from the flat part of the property, and it certainly is,
uh, nowhere as deep or as significant as many of the other ravines, um, that are
out here in this area. Um, Mr. Frey mentioned that they're not developers, um, I
think they would have an incredible challenge to ever develop (laughs) that
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property because of the significant, uh, slopes and ravines that are ... that are on
there. Uh, the other thing that I would add is that I think this is, uh, an absolutely
ideal piece of property, uh, to be developed because of the infill nature of this
within the city limits. Um, whatever infrastructure is not there is very close, is
very easily added to it. Um... it does add another way out on Oaks Drive, which
personally I would prefer not to have. I have absolutely loved living on a dead -
end street for the last 26 years, um, but I think it makes a lot of sense for the City,
uh, and I think it'll be a good addition, and certainly we need some parkland in
that area. Uh, my kids are all grown, but there's a lot of young families out there,
and there's absolutely no parkland that's close by. You'd have to go across
Dodge Street to get to Hickory Hill, so ... um, I will certainly support the project.
Dickens: I also live somewhat in the area. I live on north Dodge Street. I'm surrounded on
three sides by Hickory Hill Park so I understand the liking having lots of woods
around you. Uh, I walk north Dubuque Street on a regular basis. Uh, I ... I think
it's a great in -fill property, uh, I know there was some discussion from, uh, I think
it was Lisa Zennial about the driveway coming out, and it looks like Mr. Allen
has, uh, taken care of that, that it would not come right into their driveway. He's
worked it with some of the neighbors to move things around. It's, uh... a property
up there, the Ruppert family I believe owned it for many years. Uh, they still own
quite a bit of land up in that area. They're friends of my grandparents, so I do
remember the Ruppert family up in that area. It's a great piece of property. It'll
be a great, I think, a great addition to the rest of the city. Be a great place to
build!
Hayek: I started riding my bike in that area several years before Mr. Frey bought his
acreage. Um, I know it very well. Um, you know, this ... these are always tough
decisions because you're... you're talking about the disruption of a ... a natural
environment, but I appreciate, uh, staff's, uh, primer, if you will, on... on the
sensitive areas ordinance, what the genesis for it was and what it's intended to do,
uh, and the criteria it sets up, uh, for situations like this and when I'm in these
situations, I ... I ... I look to the process to, and... and to the minutes and to the
memos and to ... to everything that comes before us to gauge from my own
perspective whether, um ... whether a given application that triggers the sensitive
areas ordinance and the criteria that come with it, um, have... has... has been
vetted, and ... and you know the kind of...the review it goes through and ... and the
eyes and the minds that are applied to, and the judgment that is appl ... thatis
applied to a given application and um, from my perspective having read
everything and looked ... and based on my familiarity with it, and ... and what the
process entailed, it appears to me that we went through the process. That the
ordinance, which is policy, uh, was complied with, that it received the heightened
review, and that we went through several iterations, um, to achieve something that
staff and the ... and the majority of the Planning and Zoning Commission, uh, were
comfortable with. And so based upon that I'll support.
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Throgmorton: Uh, well, uh .... I find what Susan said to be quite compelling, but I want to say
some other things. So, the ... the proposal contains what I think are clearly several
good features. Site's well suited for OPD type development. Got that. Moreover
the proposed development is compatible with the existing neighborhood and
would bring the potential neighborhood park, uh, so I ... these are all really good
things. But, the ... the proposed connection of Oaks to north Dubuque Road
comple ... in my view, completely undermines the underlying intent and spirit of
the sensi ... sensitive natural areas ordinance. As I said earlier, the ordinance...
that ordinance was created through a collaborative effort involving a committee of
developers and preservationists 18 years ago. It was designed to produce
developments that would not severely damage or compromise sensitive natural
areas. It was not intended to treat the destruction of, or inappropriate use of
natural areas as an unavoidable cost of development. So my view is ... uh, that uh,
I ... I support the idea of developing the property. I think it's a good thing. And I
would ... I would vote for the rezoning, if it did not include the west portion of
Oaks! I don't see that that's necessary, and that's why I asked, uh, Bob Miklo
about, uh ... um, the connection of Oaks Drive back to north Dubuque. Uh, so, uh,
if... if it does include that west portion of Oaks from what will be called Avalon
Place to the existing stub of Oaks, I'll vote against it, and I assume that's what
y' all intend to do, so I ... I'll vote against it.
Hayek: Any other Council discussion? Roll call, please. First consideration passes 6 -1,
Throgmorton in the negative.
Dobyns: Mayor, I'd like to, uh, make a motion to move Item 7 up to the next item in
discussion.
Throgmorton: I'd second that.
Hayek: Okay, there's a motion from Council Member, uh, Dobyns, seconded by
Throgmorton to move Item 7, which is the, uh, so- called pedestrian mall, uh,
ordinance, um, up from Item 7 for consideration at this time. Uh, and I ... for the
public's information, I think this stems from the fact that at our last meeting it
didn't come before us until approximately 10:30 P.M. and there's an interest in,
uh ... um, bringing it up sooner for ... for the public's benefit. Further discussion?
Champion: My only problem with it is ... that we may be missing people who are planning to
speak on this ... because it's so much earlier than it would have been, and I would
...I think that's also not fair. So I ... I'm not going to vote to...
Mims: I think we're going to get criticized either way.
Champion: Yeah.
Mims: I... if people looked at this agenda and saw all the zoning stuff and where this was
placed and (both talking) move it up. I'm...
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Dobyns: I waited... and I was thinking of that, Connie. I intentionally waited to see if, uh,
when we get an hour into it, so that's why. You know, it was an arbitrary
decision on my part to wait until 8:00.
Champion: We've only been in our meeting for an hour, basically.
Throgmorton: How ... I'm sorry, Connie.
Champion: And so that bothers me that we would move this up. I could see if it was 9:00,
even if it was 8:45...
Dobyns: Uh huh.
Champion: ...but I just think it's too early to move this.
Throgmorton: I know some people are here, uh, some people who are here use the bus and they
need to use the bus stops running at a certain moment in time. So if we don't
discuss it now, the likelihood is very good, very high, that they will miss their
bus! Or have to leave early. How many people in the audience are here to speak
about Item #7, which is the one about the pedestrian mall? (several talking)
Dobyns: And I see people outside the window who may be here to ... who don't know what
we're doing (several talking)
Hayek: I am (both talking)
Throgmorton: Thanks for raising your hands.
Hayek: Yeah. I guess I'm reluctant to ... to change it. Um ... if...for the reasons stated,
um, and ... and secondly, I don't think this is the same kind of meeting that we had
last time around. We have ... the next item is ... is going to entail some public input
and Council deliberation, but it appears to me that everything following that, up
until Item 7, looks fairly uncontroversial, and I think we'll move through those
items quickly.
Mims: I would agree.
Champion: yeah.
Throgmorton: I thought of that last time and we had two items that took a total of two hours.
Champion: Well, if we have an item that takes an hour then I'll move it up.
Dobyns: Yeah, why don't we just go ahead and vote and move either way.
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Hayek: Okay. Further discussion? All those in favor of the, uh, motion say aye.
Opposed say nay. Appears to fail 2 -5. Okay, so let's keep moving here!
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ITEM 5b REZONING FIRST AND ROCHESTER — CONDITIONALLY
REZONING PROPERTY FROM LOW DENSITY MULTI - FAMILY (RM-
12) ZONE TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAY/LOW DENSITY
MULTI - FAMILY (OPD/RM -12) ZONE LOCATED ON FIRST AVENUE,
NORTH OF ROCHESTER AVENUE. (REZ13- 00004) (SECOND
CONSIDERATION)
Mims: Move second consideration.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Payne. Discussion? Any ex parte (both talking)
Throgmorton: Uh, ex par ... yeah, I need to report I had a ... an email exchange with Ed
Wasserman who's sitting in the audience, and in the exchange, Ed, uh ... noted
objections that he's expressed verbally and in writing to ... to the Council as a
whole, and I advised him to contact the City Attorney to discuss his objections
about the process with the City Attorney and just provided advice about how to
participate in the process and made no advice whatsoever about the substance.
Made no comment whatsoever about the substance.
Miklo: I'm available if you have any questions about how the sensitive areas ordinance,
uh, applies to this property.
Hayek: Okay. We may have some questions for you, Bob. Urn ... I'm sure there are
members of the audience who would like to address the Council. Um, I think
now would be an appropriate time for that, so we invite you to step forward.
Please keep comments to five minutes or less.
Wasserman: I shall be brief! I'm Ed Wasserman. You know (laughs) where I live. The
meeting last time ended in something of a procedural, uh, discussion about what
was and wasn't relevant for our conversation going forward on this rezoning
application. And I've had the opportunity to chat with Ms. Dilkes about where
we stand now, and she advised me and I'll just take her word for it that there's no
going backwards. We have to move forward with the issues as they've been
presented to us. So let me rehearse some and review still other items that I think
would help us as homeowners better communicate our concerns and contextualize
them with respect to the uh, the Comprehensive Plan and the, uh, sensitive areas
ordinance. This again is the lot in question. This is Park Plaza where I live. This
is my place up here. Jim Buddenbaum's place is over here. You can't see in the
shadows is steep terraced, uh, yard which slopes rapidly into the lot. The yellow
line represents the outline of the lot. The blue line represents the retaining wall
the builder is proposing to put in to try to deal with, uh, what will be the
consequences of .. of uh, excavation and tree removal. Uh, again to rehearse just
a little bit, uh, about this Comprehensive Plan, it states that our district, the one
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where this is, includes areas with woodlands, steep slopes, and stream corridors.
And therefore development should be planned with an emphasis on adapting
existing terrain in accordance with the sensitive areas ordinance. We don't
believe that the current rezoning project complies with that, certainly not the spirit
if not the letter of the Comprehensive Plan, and our simple synopsis is, there's just
too much building proposed for too little land. So, uh, thanks to Ms. Dilkes I was
able to get this, uh, ordinance and study it just a little bit and just to rehearse it
with you since what's in here conflicts with what instructions you got when you
voted last time. The purpose of regulating development on and near steep slopes
is first to promote safety in the design and construction of developments to
minimize flooding, landslides, and mud slides. To minimize soil instability,
erosion, and down - stream siltation, and to preserve the scenic character of hillside
areas, particularly wooded hillsides, which is precisely what this lot is. So let's
look the ... the proposed plan with respect to the sensitive areas ordinance, which
is the ... our instruction, our homework assignment for today. Uh, we think that
there's unnecessary destruction of woodlands, destabilization of already steep
slopes, and the destruction of stream corridors, and therefore we're not pleased
that this proposal has advanced this far. Uh, this is a picture of the wooded slope,
uh, looking up towards Park Plaza. This is ... uh ... our building right here. These
trees go on... are along the south edge of the lot, and this is the west edge of the
lot. Here's the view from the stairway in our building, looking north. You can
see the trees around Hickory Hill Park. They are not all in Hickory Hill Park.
Some of those are on the lot, as well. The plan, if it were to be, uh, approved,
would destroy every mature tree on the lot. Not some, but all! In order to
construct a building of particularly large scope, given the size of the lot. The
removal of these trees will remove the only visual and acoustic barrier between
the buildings, as well as remove many mature trees that are adjacent to Hickory
Hill Park, as I just said. Tree removal will certainly ruin the scenic character of
the lot. Remember that was explicitly stated in the ... uh, the sensitive areas
ordinance, and the removal of these trees will also disturb the soil in the steep
slopes because these very tall trees have very deep root structures. Now, in order
to build this building, there'll have to be quite a bit of excavation. And this
excavation isn't in the middle of the lot only. It comes perilously close to our
building next door and to Hickory Hill Park. That excavation, we think, will
threaten the integrity of our own building, and the terraced landscaping, uh, that
we have just to our north, in the south part of the lot. That excavation will also
disrupt what are existing stream corridors. And just to rehearse, the sense of
slope, uh, this is the bottom edge of our garage and this is the bottom edge of their
garage. That would be a drop of 22 -feet in 30 -feet. That's way beyond anything
permissible. What is standing between that and uh, this and us is a wall. A
retaining wall. So the lot, as some of you may already know, is already a stream
corridor. Water and snow melt readily flow onto First Avenue and into Hickory
Hill Park. Uh, the excavation that's anticipated would certainly exacerbate any
existing drainage problems, if not solved, for the neighboring structure — ours, as
well as for Hickory Hill Park. This spring, the bridge ... the foot bridge in Hickory
Hill Park was washed out and our own building, uh, Park Plaza has suffered
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several problems, drainage problems, and more are coming. The concrete work
and other work has already been done and I'll rehearse the ... the bill for that. So
once again, here is our building. These are all trees, every one of which, here,
here, and here would be destroyed in the course of the project. This is the inside
of my garage, and you can see all the way to the top level we're talking 12 -feet.
We've got water already coming in from the north. So ... we certainly expect that
this environmentally sensitive lot will surely be developed at some point in time.
But we believe that this development should proceed with an abundance of
caution, and it should strictly accord with the Comprehensive Plan and the
sensitive areas ordinance. We believe that the present proposal fails to do so and
should not move forward. We're well aware, after the conversation last time, that
some of the Councilors have considerable confidence in engineering firms and
staff reports.
Hayek: Mr. Wasserman, you're going to have to wrap up here (both talking)
Wasserman: ...the, uh ... Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council approved plans
before on this, in this general area. They were the plans for our building. We've
thus far paid $47,000 to repair windows, concrete, and drainage systems because
of soil shifting and run -off problems. Our opposition to this rezoning is therefore
not fanciful, but based on real experience. We're not relying on theories of
drainage or on reputations of builders. We have the evidence already and we
have further expenses down the road to pay. You were quite assiduous in your
conversations last time about liability and while you may not be liable for any
problems that eventuate, should this project move forward, uh, we'll be the ones
who have to pay.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments. Are there others who would like to address the
Council?
Rouner: Good evening. I'm April Rouner. I'm the Executive Director of the Regina
Foundation. I come to you tonight in a unique position because not only is the
Regina Foundation the seller of this property, we are also Regina, Regina
Foundation are neighbors on the backside to this property. Um ... just a little bit of
background with the property. It was initially, uh, gifted to the Regina
Foundation in the mid- 2000s, uh, with the hopes that Regina would have a future
use of the property. Most specifically it was hoped that it would, um, we'd be
able to create a First Avenue access into Regina, which would help alleviate some
of the traffic coming in to Regina from Rochester Avenue. If the one picture
would come up again... sorry! (noises on mic) Sorry! Number 15. As you can
see from this aerial view, it was ultimately determined that we could not use that
property for a potential for us to have a new access because it would, um, run into
the existing track that you see there on ... on the picture. Um ... we continued to
talk, the Regina Foundation continued to talk with Regina about any other future
potential use of that property and it was ultimately determined that there was not
anything that Regina would utilize that property for. The Regina Foundation has
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a policy that we are not to be property holders. When ... when things are gifted to
us, and so that we needed to sell that property. It has become a financial, um,
burden to the Foundation to continue to maintain it with, um, snow removal,
mowing, insurance, etc. Um, so over a year ago we listed that property for sale.
We would have welcomed anyone that wanted to, uh, purchase that property, be it
neighbors that wanted that to remain aesthetically pleasing and ... and urn ... or ... or
were concerned about run -off. We have been, um, offered ... a ... a purchase by
Mr. Miller. Taking a look at that as certainly... as neighbors and also the sale of
the prop... property, um, it appears to us that that zoning of that property is ... is,
adheres to other similar properties in that area. The sale of this property, when
Regina receive... Regina Foundation receives those funds from that will be
utilized for general endowment, so not only will the ... the proceeds of the property
benefit Regina and its students today, but the money will be used into per...
perpetuity by Regina so for many, many years to come, uh, it will be impacting
Regina students and lastly I assume that it would also affect the tax base of, um,
Johnson County. So we, from Regina and the Regina Foundation are here tonight
in support, uh, that you would help ... that you would vote to rezone that property.
Thank you!
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Lepic: Good evening. My name is Tom Lepic and I'm one of the owners of Lepic
Kroeger Realtors here in Iowa City. Um, I'm the agent who called Jeff Miller
about purchasing this lot and ... and I still represent him in the sale. Um, I bought
...brought this to Jeff's attention because I felt it would be an outstanding
opportunity to develop a parcel of ground on the east side that would fill a large
housing need. Realtors in Iowa City are often asked to find newer condos in... on
the east side between the $150,000 to $180,000 price range for buyers. This is an
extremely tough find for a buyer on the east side and ... and as you know, often
times we are ... we have to take buyers to Coralville and North Liberty for ... to
fulfill that need. As of today, for your knowledge, I pulled up on the MLS to look
for that housing need, and today between $150,000 and $180,000 on the east side
there are zero condos for sale on the market. Between, uh, that are five years old
or newer, and between $150,000 and $180,000 there are only two condos on the
east side for sale that are between, uh, $150,000 and $180,000. As all of you
know that, uh, condo is much, much more available, like I said, in Coralville and
North Liberty and we often hear why don't we take more buyers to the east side?
We'd like to, but this is a case where we can't, especially in this, uh, type of a
property that ... that Jeff Miller is proposing to build on this piece of ground. The
buyers that we're looking for in this type of property include first -time home
buyers, retirees, uh, transitional buyers such as individuals new to the area,
couples getting divorced and couples getting married, and anyone looking for
affordable housing. Not only does this development that Jeff Miller has brought
to you take care of a housing need, it also has interior features such as granite
countertops, hardwood floors, stainless steel appliances, decks; the outside, as
you've seen, is, uh, structurally attractive and it goes hand -in -hand with other
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properties in the area, especially on the west side of First Avenue. Finally, uh, it
has underground parking, a security system, and an elevator which again fills a
housing need very much needed by the handicap. Um, I guess when I think about
this project from the very beginning, and I thought it was a no- brainer, um, I hope
you do too. I know there are some things we need to worry about. When the
neighbors talk about the, uh, hillsides and that kind of thing, but I've got complete
suppo ... uh, you know, we've used MMS. We've used the, uh, engineers that are
doing this and we've never had a problem. We've always... we've... we've done
other developments like this and ... and we've never had a problem with their help.
So thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Beckler: My name's Kelly Beckler. I'm with MMS Consultants, um ... I did the drainage
design on this and am the engineer responsible for the drainage on that, and Jeff
asked me to be here, uh, to uh, to go through some of the elements there and just
once again, share those items with you and certainly if you have any questions for
me, go ahead and ask. Um ... (mumbled) Along the ... along the west side here is
a ... a retaining wall, and it ... and it does run, uh, essentially from ... from this point
all the way, uh, along the west property line and then runs back to the ... to the
east. Uh, and it varies from height, uh, it starts out at about ... well, actually it
starts at zero here, runs to about 4 -foot, and then ... and then gets about 7 -foot tall
at its tallest point back here. And then as it runs back to the east, it...it dies down
to zero height again. Uh, one of the concerns has always been the drainage, of
course. Um ... they don't quite show up here, uh, one of the elements that we've
got, we've got a couple intakes, uh ... on this side of the building that will collect
the water, the runoff from this side of the building, from this... green space here,
up to the Regina track, as well as the roof, downspout area for the building. Uh,
we've also got another collection system ... along the entire east side that will run
down and tie into the existing intake that's... that's here, and we've put a ... a, uh,
curb intake right adjacent to the sidewalk in order to capture that runoff. Um, I
think it was mentioned earlier that the runoff run across the sidewalk. One of the
...one of the items that we've added, we've put a drainage ditch adjacent to the
sidewalk, uh, only about a foot deep so that water is directed to this existing
intake, rather than going across the sidewalk. Um ... in addition to that, one of the
items that was brought up was, uh, erosion. This hatched area here is an area that
we're proposing to use a turf re- enforcement matting, uh, which... consists of a
biodegradable mesh along with some coconut fibers in order to help stabilize that,
uh, as construction is ... is finishing up there. Um, and Mr. Miller will be ... in
charge, or charged with maintaining his stabilization seeding as every developer is
in the city, um ... so...
Dobyns: I had a question for you, sir.
Beckler: Sure!
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Dobyns: Um, on the left side, which is the west side, on the slope. Um, with the current
vegetation there, my sense is that during a heavy rain event over a day or a period
of days that the water would move perhaps slower if there was vegetation. If
there was a ... that's a fairly sizeable building that's squeezed into that footprint.
Um, my sense is that you've just described several areas of mitigation along First
Avenue on the east side, um, you said outlet valves. I wasn't ... I guess I don't
know the... terminology of how that, during a heavy rain event, that mitigates the
what I would assume is a more rapid flow of water down that slope. My concern
about this sensitive area is that that is a very popular entry area to the north, to a
very unique and popular park. And that's my major concern. Could you
describe, um, maybe in a little bit more elaboration on how those mitigation, um
...uh, things that you're going to build along First Avenue would, I guess divert
the water from going into that park entrance?
Beckler: Sure, um ... you know, as far as the runoff coming down the driveway, the intake
will capture that here. (noises on mic) Of course it's going to ... there is a storm
that's going to overwhelm that...
Dobyns: Sure.
Beckler: ...but you know...
Dobyns: I'm not talking about a Noah event (both talking)
Champion: (laughs)
Beckler: ...right, right! And typically what we design for which is typical engineering
practices is a 5 -year design storm. And that's what this system's designed for.
Um ... so that ... that would be one control.
Dobyns: And that water goes into the city... sewer system?
Beckler: Right! Yeah, I apologize, I've lost my cursor here. There it is! That intake's
located right here. Um ... there's an intake proposed ... I believe it's in this area
right here, and then there's another one proposed right here. And they're both
directed into this intake, and then ultimately into an existing intake right here.
Throgmorton: And ... and it goes into the storm sewer system, is that correct?
Beckler: That's existing, right. Yep. I apologize. This is an existing one here. We're
putting a new manhole here to tie into an existing storm sewer.
Payne: So it will be taken, the water ... that you're talking about, Rick, is going to be
taking underground into the ... into the stream in the park.
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Beckler: That's correct! In addition, the other item I was talking about, um, adjacent to the
sidewalk, on the west side of the sidewalk, we're creating a little... a little bit of
a... a ditch. We didn't want to make a big ravine there. About a foot deep, or
make it a foot lower than the sidewalk, running adjacent to it. And directing it to
the existing intake that's there now. So there'll be a ... a small swale all the way
along the sidewalk through here.
Throgmorton: To ... to follow up on these questions, am I correct in understanding that there is
no storm water retention facility built in to the project?
Beckler: Not for this project, no. This was part of the, uh, Ralston Creek project.
Throgmorton: Well I know there's one downstream at the dam, right? I understand that, but I
mean on this site.
Beckler: No!
Throgmorton: Okay. Thank you.
Mims: With the retaining wall on the west hand side, the west side that you said, as you
get towards the south is about 7 -feet tall or whatever. Is there ... is there tiling
behind that to collect water and let it out? I mean, what ... what's to prevent
pressure behind that wall, if you get that soil all saturated and you've got a 7 -foot
wall from that thing collapsing.
Beckler: There'd be both, uh, a tile at the bottom of it and then granular fill all the way up
the backside of it, to direct to the tile.
Mims: Thank you.
Champion: When you talked about protecting that area with the sheet ... you said kind of
sheeting, some kind of sheeting or something?
Beckler: Turf re- enforcement mat, yes.
Champion: Okay, great. A mat.
Beckler: Yes.
Champion: How is that, when the construction is done, how is that, is it a mound of...how is
that kept from falling down then? When the matting's gone?
Beckler: For lack of a better term, it's stapled into the existing ground. It's used quite a bit.
It's ... it's a common practice and I ... you've probably seen (both talking)
Champion: I have seen it!
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Beckler: Yeah.
Champion: So it's not really removed.
Beckler: No, it's never removed. It's biodegradable.
Champion: Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you.
Beckler: So it stays there. It helps to establish the ... the per ... the term permanent seeding.
Champion: Okay, that expla ... I didn't realize that it was never removed.
Hayek: Other questions for him?
Payne: I have one more question. So ... in your opinion, will this drainage plan actually
be better for the sidewalk than what we have today with the water just running
willy -nilly wherever it wants to go?
Beckler: Yes.
Dobyns: Ron, do you concur with that?
Champion: (laughs)
Knoche: I do concur with that.
Dobyns: Okay. Thanks!
Throgmorton: I ... if I could ask a related question, uh, is it your professional judgment that con
...construction of the retention wall ... will, uh, make this ... this slope more stable
than it currently is, or at least equally stable?
Beckler: I have to say first that I'm not a structural engineer. That's not what I do. Uh,
Mr. Miller hired another engineering form ... firm for that. Um ... my opinion is
that if it's designed correctly and installed correctly it will be equally or if not
more stable, yes.
Throgmorton: And... and Ron, I assume you agree with that statement? (laughter)
Knoche: I ... I also am not a structural engineer, but I do agree with that statement, um, that
the engineering report that was done and the specifications that, uh, that engineer
has put in place, will have to be adhered for the building (both talking)
Throgmorton:... structural engineer is not present, is he or she? No? Okay. Thank you.
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Beckler: Um, VJ Engineering was the firm that did that report.
Mims: Kelly, can I ask you one last question?
Beckler: Sure!
Mims: With ... with this development, this plan, and with the drainage design that you
have put in there, would you see this as, uh, helping, hindering, or making no
difference to the drainage issues that the property to the south has?
Beckler: This property's downstream of that property.
Mims: Okay.
Champion: Oh.
Beckler: And we all know which way water goes.
Mims: Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you. Is there anyone else from the community that'd like to weigh in?
Okay.
Buddenbaum: Judy Buddenbaum, 557 N. First Avenue. Um, I'm going to quote Miss Mims and
Mr. Dickens, um, I too love trees and I liked when I bought into our property, the
trees were a big factor for me, as well. Um, we have two units for sale in our
building. And it's a condo building on First Avenue. Um ... uh, further... further
north on First Avenue is a 16 -unit building under construction right now, and uh,
that's a possible 32 cars. With Mr. Miller's building, that'll be another 16 units
and that could be another 32 cars. First Avenue is a two -lane street, and this is
just between, you know, little north of Hickory Hill Park and Rochester. All
these cars are emptying out onto First Avenue. Um ... one of you mentioned the
unac ... unaccountable cost of development. If Mr. Miller is granted his rezoning,
we neighbors will be paying that cost. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Forde: Hi, my name is Sue Forde and I live at 616 N. First Avenue. Some of those
pictures that you saw I think were probably taken from my driveway. So over the
last 18 years that I've lived in that home, I've watched that land gradually sinking,
uh, from the water that flows underneath it. I've watched that land weeping over
the sidewalk as has been noted until a small ditch was dug and so it diverted that
water into the, um, drain, which also sinks after all these years, um, so I have
grave concerns about the water over there. Um, it obviously does not affect my
property first -hand, but I worry not only about my neighbors across the street and
a little bit to the south, what it'll do to their building, I worry about Hickory Hill
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Park. Um, no one has been here to speak for Hickory Hill Park. Um, you can't...
you own Hickory Hill Park. Well, we all own it. Um, and apparently you're not
allowed to speak for Hickory Hill Park, so I will! Hickory Hill ... I have ... like I
said, I've lived there 18 years. I have a... an 11- year -old dog so I have been in
that park two to three times per day over the last 11 years and I've seen the
changes that have happened over in that park. Um, it's like abandoned property.
As it stands now, the trails on our entrance don't get mowed, they don't get
maintained. A bridge goes out, it stays out. Um ... the lady from the Foundation
talked about Regina, um, their construction has dumped land and created, um,
runoff onto the trails in Hickory Hill Park and no one cares. Um... so what's
thousands of gallons of more water? Um, the fellow who said that no, there is no
storm water retention plan involved in this. No, it's storm water propulsion is
what is involved in this project. Um, the property, the rezoning that was, um,
discussed before this one talked about the need for a park. We have a park, but
we need it to be taken care of! Um, I know it's a large park. It's a primitive park,
but it still needs to be taken care of, because it's there for all of us! Uh, and that's
just not being done, and this project is going to do it nothing but harm. Um it's
the entrance and the, uh, the parking lot there stands between where this water is
going to be directed to run and Ralston Creek, where it will ultimately end up. So
you know what's going to happen, uh, to that entrance and to that part of the park.
Um, to the people who spoke in favor of this project summed it up very nicely
when they mentioned that it was all about the money! Um, this land will be
developed at some point. It's land! This is Iowa City. It will get developed.
And I understand the need for affordable housing on my side of this town, and
I'm all in favor of it. I ... I welcome more neighbors. I just don't think that
covering that entire piece of property with cement is the way to do it. It does not
have to be 16 units with a hole dug into the ground. It can certainly be developed
with fewer, um, units, with more green space, with more consideration of the
critical slopes and the water on that property. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Buddenbaum: My name is Jim Buddenbaum. I'm at 557 N. First Avenue, and I'm here to just
to, uh, reiterate in support, uh, Ed's comments. He, I think he covered most
everything that, uh, we've covered in the past since we've been doing this now for
nine months and uh ... I believe that what he said is ... is accurate. In the ordinance
4014 -51 -8, um ... encroachment of construction areas into steep and critical slopes
must be minimized. This is your code, you know. If disturbance of more than
35% of the critical slopes is proposed, a Level 2 sensitive areas re ... review is
required. This retaining wall has got to exceed that by whatever. However, the
other part of the ordinance says to eliminate sharp angles. This wall is at a 90-
degree angle to the land. It's also, what, 7 perhaps 8 -feet tall. The person who
buys the unit in the lower left -hand corner will have a 7 -foot wall as a view out
their window to the west; to the south they'll face our terraced wall, which is
really pretty. I'm still upset from the last meeting (laughs) but um, I just want to
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say that ... the only positive to this project that I can see ... is the reach for profit
and greed. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you. Okay, I don't see anyone else from the audience getting up to speak
to us. So at this point I will close down the conversation and have, uh, Council
deliberate.
Dobyns: Last time I voted no. I intend to change my vote this time and vote yes for the,
uh, proposed zoning change. Um, my concern at the time was, it's sort of like let
the buyer beware, I mean, if there's some moisture, the developer, the purchasers
need to be aware of that. My concern for the public's welfare is that the, uh,
protection of the entrance, uh, be protected. I think that's relevant to my vote, and
I appreciate the work that, uh, Ron and the City staff, engineers, have looked into
it and sufficiently mitigated and possibly even protected, um, my concern. So I
intend to vote yes on this consideration.
Champion: I just want to make it clear. Eleanor, we're actually voting. It's already been
zoned multi - family, isn't that correct? So what we're actually voting on is not
whether they can build a multi - family unit there, but because that they can do in
fact by the zoning. What we're actually voting on is whether they meet the rules
of the sensitive areas. Am I correct? That's what I'm assuming that I'm ... that
I'm voting on. Um ... I... also wanted to ask Ron, do you ... I think you've been
here longer than me, haven't you? No? Oh (laughs)
Dobyns: Ron isn't that old, Connie! (laughter)
Champion: (laughs) I was just curious because I think the water retention area in Hickory
Hill Park was put there to collect water. It's a water reten... wasn't that actually
added to the park?
Knoche: That's cor ... the detention basin that's...it...it is in Hickory Hill Park was sized to
do the detention for this area of town.
Champion: But it wasn't actually at that time part of Hickory Hill Park until we did that
retention basin there. I'm not ... I might be wrong.
Knoche: I do not know the history on the property itself.
Champion: But that was the purpose of that retention basin there. It wasn't... so these, this
developer is not putting water where it shouldn't be. It's ... it's being put where
we intended to have it put. Uh, as a ... as a city. So, uh, I ... I know the neighbors
don't like to see those trees go. Nobody likes to see those trees go. But we can't
stop this man from developing this property when it's already zoned. Our plan is
to keep it from being as undestructive as possible, and I intend to support it.
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Hayek: I'll uh ... follow up on ... on what you mentioned, Connie, cause I think you ... it's
...it's important to focus on what is before us and what is not, and I ... and as
much as that is frustrating to those who, um, are... are... are opposed to this, it...it
does matter because it...it....it dictates what the decision that's before the Council
and was before the Planning and Zoning Commission, and this is not ... it's called
the rezoning request, but ... but it ... but it really isn't a rezoning request. We're
not, uh, there... there's no request to change zoning... zoning classification. Um...
uh, that was done last year, uh, and in connection with that the ... the permissible
size of...of the facility was established, and ... and there's no pending request to
that ... to down -zone, uh, this ... this property, um, so those are not things that are
before us. What is before us is ... is the sensitive areas ordinance, uh, process,
which was triggered by the topography and um, that's... that's the decision point
for us. I think another thing that could be confusing to people is you see this
referenced to conditional rezoning, and you know in ... in the general sense if you
go through a zoning change ... for example, RM ... RS5 to RM12 or, you know,
CC -1 to CC -2, something like that, you ... you go through this process and ... and
the Council has the ability to attach lots of requirements to, um, to ... to the
rezoning request because the developer enters into this request and ... and the
Council says, or the City says all right, we'll look at it and because we're both in
this negotiation situation, we can ... we can add, um, things that we want to add to
it, but ... but it ... but here, uh, we ... we're not doing that. We're going through the
stra ... through the sensitive areas ordinance, uh, process and so our job as a
Planning and Zoning Commission and ultimately as a Council, with the help of
our staff, is to vet the application against the sensitive areas ordinance. Um, and
...and Professor Wasserman I think was correct in focusing on what I think is the
right issue, whether this project complies with that ordinance. Um, in terms of,
you know, minimizing soil... soil stability and preventing landslides and... and the
landscaping buffer and... and the other, uh, criteria that ... that are part of that, uh,
ordinance, but um, where I come from on this is a perspective, you know,
we ... we rely on ... on paid staff to give us professional opinions about, um, about
the engineering of it, about... about the environmental aspects of it, and whether in
staff's opinion, the people we rely on for a given project, uh, complies or does not
comply with ... with what I would describe as strict criteria of our, uh, of our
ordinance. Now what they tell us is certainly not gospel, uh, but I ... I give it a lot
of weight, and I'm ... I'm, despite the concerns expressed, I am not seeing or
hearing, um ... input or ... or testimony or evidence or whatever you want to call it
that would cause me to go against the, uh, the professional advice we're getting
from staff. So ... I'll ... I'll support, and ... and I also want to point this out that, uh
there ... to avoid confusion, there was a request to expedite, uh, this matter. In
other words collapse tonight's reading and the third reading and take them up
together so that this would, uh, potentially pass tonight and we'd be done with it.
Council's declined to do that. We typically decline to collapse second and third
readings when there is any controversy or any, uh, significant public, uh, input
anticipated and that's certainly the situation here. So the Council decided not to
go that route, which means if this passes tonight, there will still be a third reading,
uh, with an opportunity for public input.
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Throgmorton: So as everybody said the question at hand is does the proposed development meet
the requirements of the sensitive natural areas ordinance. I presume that the
developer bears the burden of proof to persuade us that it does in fact meet the
requirements. My own personal sense is that, uh, the developer has not passed
that test. Rather I find that sufficient evidence has been presented by Ed
Wasserman, uh, by Judy Buddenbaum and by, uh, Connie Smith in an email to us,
uh, to make me doubt that the proposal contains the features required to minimize
soil instability and erosion, to prevent flooding, and to preserve the scenic
character of the hillside. But, there are legal constraints that limit our discretion
about how we can vote, and I would like Eleanor to clarify what the constraints
are with regard to a person like me, not feeling persuaded that the developer's met
the burden of proof. What, there's something else that you and I talked about on
the phone. What ... what is the something else that is ... is involved?
Dilkes: Well I ... I think, um ... well I think what I told is that you can't just say ... I've not
been satisfied. You need to point to the evidence that says you're not satisfied.
Um ... and in this respect, we're talking about the design elements that are required
for the protection of critical slopes, and for me to feel comfortable defending that
decision, I would want to know what specific elements of the sensitive areas
ordinance have not been satisfied and why you think they have not been satisfied.
Backing up to Mr. Wasserman's comments, the Comprehensive Plan is a guide.
First of all, the ... the quote he put up there said... some... said shall be blah, blah,
blah, in accordance with the sensitive areas ordinance. So, we're ... we're looking
at the sensitive areas ordinance. We're not looking at the Comprehensive Plan.
So that's why I take you back to those design elements that are in the ordinance.
Um ... you know the, and in addition the purpose statements of the ordinance are
kind of like the whereas clauses of the ordinance that we passed. Um, it ... if the
purpose statement says, you know, we're ... we're wanting to protect woodlands
and slopes, etc., that doesn't allow you to then set your own definition of
woodlands when the ordinance itself defines woodlands. Um, so ... if...if you can
find an element of the sensitive areas ordinance that you don't think has com...
been complied with and you can articulate a persuasive reason as to why you
think it's not been complied with, then ... I mean, then you can vote that way. I
mean, you can vote ... I ... I'm not concerned about it if...if it's one of you.
Throgmorton: Right.
Dilkes: Obviously (laughs) It's more than one of you, I think it would be a very hard
decision to defend.
Throgmorton: Yeah. Okay, so I ... I'm going to vote no, but I think next week I'll vote yes, or
two weeks from now I'll have to vote yes if I don't ... if I can't pin down a ... a
particular elements of the sensitive natural areas ordinance that clearly are not
being complied with, uh, by this particular proposal.
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Dilkes: That's what you need to focus on.
Mims: I will ... I supported this at the first reading and I will, um, support it again tonight.
In my estimation, listening to, um, the engineers involved and the work that has
been done in terms of the sensitive slopes, um, I feel that they have presented
evidence that the ... the protection needed on the sensitive slopes is there. Um...
comment was made about woodlands. My understanding based on our definition
of woodlands under the sensitive areas ordinance, this is not a woodland. It's not
two acres of forest. Um, so it would fall under the grove of trees and um ... trees
will be replaced. There ... there are some big trees there. They are, um, I guess I
would argue that they are not necessarily high quality trees and, um, they will
...there will be replacement trees, um, put on the plan, but to me the ... the critical
issue is the sensitive slopes and the drainage that is being designed to go along
with that, and I feel comfortable with what, uh, the engineers have presented to us
on that.
Hayek: Any further discussion? Okay, roll call, please. Second consideration passes 6 -1,
Throgmorton in the negative.
Karr: Motion to accept correspondence.
Payne: So moved.
Mims: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by Mims. Discussion? All those in favor say aye.
Opposed say nay. Motion carries 7 -0.
Throgmorton: Matt, I'd like to move that, uh, we move Item 7 up to this moment in the agenda
so that, um, people in the audience can, uh, 15 or so it seemed like will have an
opportunity to speak.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Throgmorton, seconded by, uh, Payne. Discussion?
Champion: (both talking) ...willing to do that now.
Payne: I think now is the time.
Champion: It's ... it's almost 9:00 P.M.
Hayek: Okay. So the motion which is seconded and on the floor is to move Item 7 up for
consideration now. Can we do so without a break (several talking) Okay. All
those in favor say aye. Opposed say nay. Motion carries 7 -0. So at this time we
will take up Item 7.
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ITEM 7. PERSONAL PROPERTY IN THE DOWNTOWN - AMENDING TITLE 8,
ENTITLED "POLICE REGULATIONS," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED
"MISCELLANEOUS OFFENSES," TO LIMIT STORING PERSONAL
PROPERTY ON RIGHT OF WAY, TO PROHIBIT SOLICITING BY
PARKING METERS AND AT CITY PLAZA ENTRANCES, TO
PROHIBIT LYING ON ELEVATED PLANTERS, TO PROHIBIT LYING
ON BENCHES DURING CERTAIN HOURS, AND TO RESTRICT USING
ELECTRICAL OUTLETS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Mims: Move second consideration.
Champion: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Champion. Discussion? Uh, if you are here from
the audience and you would like to weigh in, we invite you to st... step forward,
sign your name, and please give us your name verbally, and then limit your
comments to five minutes.
Ingram: ...go first. Um, I'm Beth Ingram. And I live at 8 Wrexham in Iowa City. So I've
been an Iowa City resident for 32 years. Uh, not all at one time. I was, uh, here
in the late -1960s as a grade school kid and I came back as a, uh, undergraduate,
um, in the 1970s and then returned in 1988 and I've been here ever since and
raised two kids here. I lunch downtown nearly every day. Um, my husband
works in the Paul Helen Building, so we're on the ped mall a lot, um, we go down
to dinner there probably once a week and I shop downtown. I shop at Prairie
Lights and other places downtown. I actually love the ped mall. It's one of the
features of Iowa City that keeps me here at the University of Iowa. Um, certainly
none of the other great college towns that you can think about moving to have
something like what we ... what we have, and so I actually didn't even know that
there was a problem downtown until, um, my daughter mentioned it to me and uh,
I was, um ... thinking about what ... what the problem was that you were trying to
solve, and apparently, um, there's disrespectful behavior on the ped mall, um,
public urination, harassment, public nudity, uh, and these are problems that have
been reported by some people, um, to the City Council, and in addition it appears
that there's not enough space downtown, that there's ... the ped mall is crowded in
someway. And it... it feels like we're trying to solve this problem by, uh, adding
more restrictions to a public space. So, restricting the public use of a public area.
So no lying on benches. No plugging in electronic equipment. Um, limiting
space for personal belongings, and no curb sitting. And the question really in my
mind is .... is it going to work? So we already have ordinances on the books
against the ... problems that you've cited. You can't urinate in public. You can't
harass people. You can't, uh, be nude in public. And, uh, but it's still happening,
apparently, because people are complaining about it. Restricting bench lying isn't
going to stop people from urinating in public. Uh ... do we have a problem with
space downtown? So are there not enough benches? You know, it feels like, uh,
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well, we know that we have over 100 benches downtown, and apparently there
are 10 in particular that are particular interest of people, uh, near the north
entrance. Uh, but I think that the issue ris ... really isn't about whether all of the
benches are a problem. It's whether the benches in the north part of the, the north
entrance to the ped mall are a problem, and the question is are the ordinances
going to fix the problem in that particular part of the ped mall? Or is the problem
something else? I think the problem is probably the construction that's going on
in that area, as Jim mentioned last time. Now, so ... we have a problem that we
want to solve, which is un ... behavior we don't like downtown. We're trying to
solve it by imposing more ordinances that aren't really aimed at those problems.
They're aimed at a different problem. And, the question's what's going to happen
when you impose new ordinances? What I worry about really when we start
regulating behavior like curb sitting and bench lying and um, plugging in
electronic equipment is that you're sending a message to the people of Iowa City
that it's a less open and less friendly space to people of all sorts of different kinds,
um, we've become more reliant on enforcement instead of, um, thinking about it
as a shared community space, and the entire atmosphere turns into one of
regulating behavior and once you do that, you might drive away the people that
you actually want to come downtown. You want the people that will come and
eat at the restaurants and shop in the stores and feel comfortable, um, being
downtown. And, I'm not sure that I want to be in a place where I have to worry
about what kind of behavior is legitimate. Where I can sit, where I can lie, what
words I can use, how I can greet people downtown. Um, I don't want to worry
about how long I can occupy a bench or what windows I can gaze into, or what
language I can use when I talk to people downtown. It's not what Iowa City is
about and it's not what the ped mall has been about since it came into existence
over 30 years ago. Um, it seems to me that the real question is how do you
enforce the current ordinances that you have, not how do you create more
ordinances aimed at things that are not the kinds of behavior rea ... you really want
to regulate. I heard somebody say last time that this was really kind of a
compromise ordinance. It seemed in my mind it was more of a non sequitur
ordinance — not a compromise. It's aimed at the wrong kind of problem. So,
thanks.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Giesking Hi! My name is Desiree Giesking. I'm actually one of the homeless people
downtown. Um, I've been homeless for a while now. Um, and what I agree and
disagree on. One thing is I disagree, yes, the personal belongings downtown I do
not agree on. 1, myself, don't keep my stuff down there as being homeless. Um,
to me I think it would be best for like someone like a ... a fundraiser or some, or an
organization to come up with a solution for us to put our stuff, like storage unit or
like a little area for us to put it, instead of storing it downtown like one person,
like the shopping carts down at the ped mall. I don't agree with that, and another
thing is, um, I really disagree with some of the other stuff, like um ... I don't know.
I'm really kind of not ... sorry. Um, some of the stuff like, plugging in our phones
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and stuff. Okay, like we do not have anywhere else to go. They're kicking us out
of the Rec Center. They're kicking us out of the, um, Public Library, and like
even in the shelters, we have ... the shelter home, they have to be out between the
...times between 8:00 and 4:00 every single day, even on the weekends. Now
where we supposed to go and charge our phones if we like have jobs that were
trying to get a hold of us if we have jobs, for some of us. Or like some of our
very important stuff that we need to charge up that we need to use for like some
homeless people go to school, some like, you know, kids, teens, whatever and
some of the things I think, to me is ... I would like to see you guys step in the foot
of me being homeless and seeing how you ... how we feel without any money,
without any cars, walking every single day in our feet. I think you guys should
see how I feel and my fiance feels, stepping outside every day without nothing,
uh, even on Sundays. We have to wait until 5:00 in the afternoon and go all the
way to the Salvation Army just to eat. Some of us homeless people are disabled
and crippled, who can't make it that far. Maybe we should get someone to help
us out and feed us like they do at the Wesley Center on Sundays. Help us out,
you know, on God's day, you know, if some Christian should say God was
homeless once too, so that's what I have to say. Thanks!
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Hacker: (away from mic) I did some research ... my name is Geoffrey Hacker and I ... I did
some research. I actually lived with the homeless people, and I have pictures to
prove that they're not as bad as you think they are. So I'm going to have to, uh,
show you the pictures (away from mic, difficult to hear) ...like right here, uh...
Michigan they're not even doing after panhandlers (mumbled) afraid the federal
government (mumbled) and there's pictures like, of people actually walking
through the ped mall and not a single homeless person (mumbled) benches
downtown. You guys said there aren't. There's people shopping here ... that
never got bugged by a single homeless person (mumbled) there are times they are
not bugged. (mumbled) plenty of .. one of the biggest events in Iowa City
(mumbled) standing there a lot (mumbled) two week vacation I spent most of the
time with the homeless people. Here's more benches, showing that (mumbled)
here's a guy asking for money (mumbled) get in trouble (mumbled) ...sitting on
benches and all sorts of stuff here that proves you guys wrong. I took `em with
my camera to show you the real truth what's going on downtown. Here's one,
`cept for a few people making a mess with the cart, there was no bad stuff that I
(mumbled) It wasn't enforced very well, the old one. I hardly ever saw the police
and I've lived here for 40 years out of my life and I've never seen the old one
enforced well ... very well, and I think you should stop and try to enforce the old
ordinance first before you make a new one. That's, and plus ... here's a big
problem downtown. You did not put a sign on this thing and tell people it's for
cigarettes and that's why people dump cigarettes on the thing. You need to put a
sign on this (mumbled) You should put a sign on (mumbled) this is a place to put
(mumbled) and you don't realize a simple sign could say please use this, this is
for smoking cigarettes and people would be less likely to drop `em on the ground,
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cause it doesn't look like (mumbled) that people put stuff in. It looks just like a
design thing and ... (mumbled) What is that thing? They said we don't know
(mumbled) complain about cigarette butts on the ground (away from mic) And
now all this stuff here (mumbled) to play their instruments if you change the
ordinance cause they're doing it (mumbled) which people gather and watch `em
play, enjoy the atmosphere downtown. You're going to change that. And people
just sitting (mumbled) rights taken away and this guy (away from mic) and then I
had the (mumbled) so you guys are making a big mistake. (mumbled) lived with
the homeless people basically and I have my pictures here to prove it! So... this
is, the camera does not lie! That's what I want to say, the camera does not lie and
I'm going to present this to the City Council to prove it to `em.
Hayek: Thank you, sir. I'm going to give this to the Clerk and she'll include it in what
goes out to the public. Pass that down.
Payne: Motion to accept correspondence.
Dobyns: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by, uh, Dobyns (both talking)
Dobyns: Dobyns.
Hayek: Discussion? All those in favor say aye. Opposed say nay. Motion carries. Hello.
Coffin: My name is Lorelei Coffin. Uh ... I do something special. Uh, I do something that
makes the customers of the businesses happy, makes the businesses happy,
makes, uh ... I make, I play instruments. Um ... and ... because ... ofthe attention
that this issue, um ... please work with me and the business association and
whoever else to come up with a creative solution to define busking as different
from panhandling.
Hayek: Thank you.
Bird: Good evening, I'm Nancy Bird, the Executive Director of the Iowa City
Downtown District and thank you all for hearing public comment tonight on this,
on the ordinance issues. Um, we are, uh, the Iowa City Downtown District is in
full support of the ordinances that, in the proposal that's in the front of you. We
worked hard with our other partners downtown to better understand some of the
issues on the pedestrian mall and some of the increase in aggressive activities that
have occurred over the course of the summer. Um, one thing that I want to make
sure and clarify tonight for all is that, um, this is one tool that we can use to help
establish some order downtown on the ped mall. There are a number of
downtowns across the nation going through this issue where it's a very public
space. We have a lot of pedestrian traffic and it's up to, uh, business districts, like
ours and cities that host those amazing spaces to make sure and, uh, keep them
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safe and enjoyable for all people using those spaces. We feel these ordinances
help, um, give us the tool to use for our, uh, the police officer, uh, Dave Schwindt,
who's done an amazing job helping us to enforce not only recently the past
ordinances that have been referenced tonight but then also these new ones going
forward. They're just one piece of a larger strategy to help, uh, resolve some of
the issues around safety and order on the pedestrian mall. Um... it's not the only
thing, we're not trying to address homelessness per se, although I think it's
important that this issue is not ignored, and one thing I think is im ... is, this
process can help us with is raise visibility for an issue that probably hasn't, uh,
given ... been given full attention as it should over the course of time. Um, we
think that we're a change agent. Business improvement districts can be that. We
are a number of businesses. We're also community, uh, residents. We're
passionate people. We're philanthropists; uh, we live here. We care about the
people downtown, and so understanding all those issues, knowing the individuals,
asking people how we can help them, um, we are a good group to help resolve
some, um, issues and identify solutions for a number of things and the homeless
population, as well as others that are downtown that need support, that are service
resistant, we, uh, want to be part of that solution. So we hope that you continue
to, um ... uh, approve of the ... this ordinance package and uh, thank you for your
support.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments.
Cole: Good evening, my name is Rockne Cole and I'm a Candidate for City Council.
Here we are two years down along the road after we've had a ... it's essentially a
second set of rules to try to deal with the challenges we've had on the ped mall.
And instead of trying to identify what the actual solutions are, what the actual
needs of the homeless population are, we use the instruments of coercion rather
than listening, and I don't know the name of the young woman who spoke earlier,
but I was truly inspired by what she had to say because I think she defied every
stereotype that we have about our homeless population. Are there people that are
homeless that are dysfunctional? Of course there are, but are there people in
need? Absolutely! And what the most troubling thing for me is, is that this
Council is not using a balanced approach. They're just using the instruments of
coercion, the instruments of the police, and let me say in the last two weeks, I
would like to compliment Officer Schwindt. I think he has done a fantastic job
without these coercive elements and in fact I've seen him laughing and joking
with some of the members of the homeless population. Those are the sorts of way
that we're going to solve it, but we're not going to solve it until we actually listen
to the homeless advocates. Where are they as part of this discussion? I think one
of the things that I looked at that I heard tonight is one of their policies of
restrictions 8:00 to 4:00. Where are they gonna go? You cannot legislate
homelessness out of this community. And I would also note in closing, it is a
complicated issue. I'm a business owner downtown too. In fact, my window is
right outside the ped mall. But until we start identifying the needs of the entire
community, as opposed to the needs of the few, I don't think the Council has
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really processed that these problems have become worse as we've begun to focus
our developments on the elite, on the people with access, on the ability of people
that have ... make donations, to hire high -priced lawyers, to hire engineers, and the
people without access to those sorts of funds don't have a chance. So unless you
begin to identify the suffering, that's what I want you to identify. You're not here
to represent a small group of people. You're here to identify and ... and address
the needs of the entire community. And as long as you focus your efforts on
building elysian palaces in the sky, this problem will continue to get worse and it
will not be addressed. So what I'd encourage you to do is to have a balanced
approach. Address the needs. Listen to the homeless advocates, and when you
have a balanced approach, lockers is a good common sense approach. Looking at
housing first is another common sense approach, and until that comprehensive
and balanced approach is used, this problem is going to continue to persist and in
my view, it is going to get worse. And so for it's that reason that I encourage you
to, uh, vote no on this ordinance. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for the comments. (light applause)
Nusser: Good evening, my name is Bill Nusser. I'm a business owner downtown and, uh
(noise on mic) I am President of the Iowa City Downtown District and um, I'm a
volunteer at a number of organizations that ... that, uh, help the ... help the
homeless, uh, in various ways, and I'm ... my particular area of interest is
substance abuse, and um ... I want to say that, uh, Mr. Cole, that just because
you're not involved in the solution doesn't mean that ... that a solution isn't being
pursued by other people, particularly the Iowa City Downtown District. Uh, we
have gotten together experts from all sorts of fields of, uh, relating to, uh, social
services and homeless services, and we have a great deal of compassion for the
homeless, and um, so I'm a little bit, uh ... uh ... uh, bothered by some of the things
that... sort of the implications of... of some of the things that have been said about,
um (unable to hear person speaking away from mic) about downtown. Um...
(unable to hear person speaking away from mic) urn ... I'll say that Beth Ingram
did a wonderful job of sort of describing what the ... what the specific problems
are and I think it's wonderful that you took those pictures (person speaking from
audience) I think they're...
Hayek: Sir ... sir, there's one person at the podium right now. We need to let him speak.
Nusser: And I want to say that ... that if we could take pictures of the things that are
happening that are untoward and that ... that, uh, are a problem for us, this is not a
problem of homelessness. It's not a problem of, um ... of what you look like,
where you live, or where you don't live or how you smell or... anything other than
behaving badly, and in ... in a space that ... that is a public space and belongs to
everyone, including the homeless, and um, I think that the existing ordinances do
not, uh, give police enough teeth, so to speak, to help what the situation is, and I
think the ordinances that you have thoughtfully proposed will help. They may not
be the right ordinances. They may not be the right idea (comments from
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audience) but they, uh, very ... and I ... we can do things about that. We can get rid
of ordinances easily too. Um, but I think that the police need help, the downtown
needs help, um, and the people that, uh, are ... are suffering from this downtown
are people who ... who really do a lot for the community and ... and specifically for
the homeless community. I think if you measure the ... the corporate generosity of
downtown, it would be astounding. And ... and particularly in this area, and I
think that we, uh, have been accused of being heartless and rich and deep pockets
and all this, and I think that all of us have had our problems as well, you know,
um, being in business is ... is not for ... for the faint hearted, and um, people are not,
uh, necessarily flourishing the way it would be ... the way we're portrayed, and I
think that we work hard to, um, to have a ... a downtown that everybody can enjoy,
again, including the homeless and I would support a number of things that have
been said tonight, like storage, uh, I think it's a great idea. Um ... uh, but I do
think that the police need help with the existing problem of bad behavior, and uh,
and so I thank you for proposing these ordinance and I urge that you vote for
them. Thank you very much.
Hayek: Thank you for the comments.
Neades: Good evening. My name's Rebecca Neades. I'm VP of Public Policy at the Iowa
City Area Chamber, and I'm here tonight to express our support for this ordinance
and for the difficult vote you've been asked to make and the ... the vote you took
last week. Thank you. We are proud of the work that our Downtown District, our
non - profits, our faith community, um ... do to help people in need, while
supporting the environment where all people feel safe and business prospers. I'll
say that again — while supporting an environment where all people feel safe and
business prospers. The Iowa City Area Chamber of Commerce Board of
Directors unanimously supports the ordinance to restrict panhandling, um, storage
of personal items, use and treatment of public space in our downtown, and
supports the Iowa City Council for your majority vote to support this ordinance.
Um, and a safe, viable, accessible downtown. A vibrant downtown is important
to the economic vitality of the entire Iowa City area. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for the comments. You know, uh, actually we need ... there are other
people who want to speak and so (unable to hear person speaking away from mic)
So if you ... if you wouldn't mind. I think I see somebody back there who ... who
wishes to address the Council and we haven't heard from him yet. (several
speaking off mic) Well ... I ... I'd like to go through everybody who wishes to
speak first. That's... that's our normal approach.
Ingram: Um, my name is Pat Ingram. If I say anything that my wife said I apologize. I
had another meeting and I didn't get here until she was on her last words. Um,
I've been around this community for a long time, uh, I ... I date myself back. I'm
one of the people that remembers when there were buildings out in the middle of
Clinton Street (both talking)
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Champion: Oh! So do I!
Ingram: (laughter) Okay! And for the last 21 years, my office has been on the north end
of the ped mall. And in fact I was sat ... my office door went right out into
homeless central out there, until you gave that to Marc Moen, and pushed `em
across the street. I think that I listen to what Mr. Nusser had to say and he said
it's not about how these people look. It's not about how they smell, and it's not
about anything but their bad behaviors. But I listen to why it is we are endorsing
this ordinance, and it is because children are scared of these people, and the
people don't want to be downtown, and that's just saying we don't want the poor
there. You want to be the Catherine the Great and build your ... village where
there is no poor, go ahead! But that's not the village we have. I think that
the ... real problem I have with the ordinance is is that I think in many ways it is
just a way to force the homeless out of downtown. And I don't think you know
what you're doing, because you didn't know what you were doing when you
banned smoking on the ped mall, because when you ban smoking on the ped mall,
you pushed all of those people to the edges, and now they're on the edge. They
used to be down by the Vetro, and now they're up on the north end of the ped
mall, and they're there because that's where they can smoke, that's where they
can be. And when you ban `em from there, you better be able to tell us where
they're going to next! Because they're not going away! If you're going to put
`em up in College Green Park, let us know that. Let the neighbors in College
Green Park know that! Let your planners tell you that ... tell you where you think
they're going to be, because I don't think you know. I don't think when you gave
Marc Moen most of the ped mall on the north end that you realized you were
pushing all of those people right up in front of the jewelry store there. That's
what happens when you do things without thinking about the consequences. The
other problem that I have with the ordinance is that I think it will be selectively
enforced. And I listen to Miss Payne last time. I had to watch it on TV because I
had another commitment, but she said that she thought the ordinance would be
enforced equally between a homeless person, between Frank Kebschull, and
herself, and that's just not true. I can say as someone who has been involved in
the legal system in this community for 20 years that that's not the case. And I
think it is naive to think that it is. And I'll give you an example of that, is that my
daughter made a request for public records on these issues. And one of the things
that she got was a set of emails. And one of those was an email that begins from
Marc Moen, it's from a couple years ago. You guys push people out and now
there was somebody sitting in front of the Vetro and he was there and he was
constantly asking people for money. Not illegally. So Moen contacts the City
Council, or the City government. City government contacts Hargadine. And
there's an officer sent over there. And the officer then makes sure that that person
is gone. And the final message that we had from Sam Hargadine to, uh, Marc
Moen was that he should call back if this person ever shows up again, that
eventually he will get tired of the police screwing with him, and move to a place
that doesn't bother him anymore. That's what you're going to let loose on this
city. The ordinances themselves I don't think really strike at what you're
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complaining about. The ... most of the complaints are about things that are already
illegal. If someone's having sex on the ped mall, there's a statute, believe me!
We can find it! (laughter) Okay? The concern I heard was that you didn't want
people sleeping, because you couldn't share a bench. No one was sharing a bench
with Frank Kebschull. No one was sharing ... no one in the community that you
were concerned about was worried about sitting next to Frank. If Frank's sitting
on the bench by himself, he'll be there by himself. There weren't a bunch of
shopping carts — there was one! It made the news at the time because it collected
a whole bunch of stuff when all the students left earlier this summer. And in fact,
for a while, he had a TV, but of course a TV's not going to work down there
cause he hasn't got any way to get any digital, uh, signal in, but he had a TV. So
(mumbled) decided to stick in the thing about electrical outlets, even though when
we asked you to provide us with examples of people complaining about electrical
outlets there weren't any complaints. You're going to talk about... there's going
to be special kinds of planters — you can sit on some and not on others. Really?
The only time I remember people being in the planters was when Obama was here
in 2006 or 7 and bunch of us were out there, and we were everywhere! We
already have laws about soliciting. We already have laws about aggressive
soliciting, and if you expand where those laws are, you better put those neighbors
who are on the edge of those areas on notice that that ... things are changing in
their neighborhoods. Mr. Mayor, you said this ... you thought this was a carefully
crafted approach last time you spoke on this. I thought it was primarily response
to a newspaper article that dealt primarily with Frank Kebschull and dealt with
shopping carts and electrical outlets. Mr. Dobyns, you said you thought it opened
doors in this community and I don't think I like the doors it's opening. I think it's
opening a door that's pushing people out so that we don't have to look at them.
And I really don't know what the consequences will be if we write people tickets.
Believe me, the ... lots of the people who are out there on the ped mall on the north
end, they've got tickets. They're not paid. And unless you're going to start a
debtor's prison, we're not going to get `em paid. We're not going to send `em to
jail (noise in mic), not unless you start to ask ... having the City Attorney ask for
jail time for this. And if you do, I think you can kiss your jail and courthouse
goodbye. I just think that the consequences of what you're doing are wrong, and
that I am very rarely embarrassed to say I'm from Iowa City, but if we do this, I
will say that I am embarrassed.
Hayek: Thank you for the comments.
Ingram: My name is Kathy Ingram. I'm the previously mentioned daughter that did the
open records request. Um ... obviously my parents already spoke about how much
time we spend on the ped mall. I've worked in my dad's office, which is why I
was there in the summer. We eat lunch down there all the time. We eat dinner
down there. We shop at the artisan's gallery for my mom's birthday. I have
never felt unsafe on the ped mall, personally. People have asked me for money. I
say no. Everyone moves along. Um, I assume that if someone were aggressive
about it, I would call over a police officer and that the situation would be dealt
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with. The issues that I've been hearing are already on the books as illegal, and if
you have a problem with something, you should call over a police officer and
have it dealt with. A number of people have brought up that, uh, we want the ped
mall to be a safe place. But I have yet to hear any evidence that the ped mall is
not currently a safe place. Part of my open records request I asked for, uh, by
location, um, issues that have arisen on ... okay, I asked for service calls to the
Police Department, and I only got them at 2:00 today so I haven't actually gone
through everything, but ... you can clearly see that the ped mall doesn't have a
significantly larger concentration of calls to the Police Department than anywhere
else in Iowa City. In fact there are numerous places in Iowa City that have
significantly more calls to the Police Department, and when there are those calls,
you know, if there is a fight which someone brought up earlier, people get
arrested for fighting on the ped mall, and since we do have dedicated officers for
the ped mall, there are actually police down there and around there significantly
more often than anywhere else. So I don't believe that there's currently a safety
issue. I also don't believe that any of these ordinances in any way deal with
safety. A person sleeping on a bench has nothing to do with your safety. A
person storing their property in a public space has nothing to do with your safety.
I asked, uh, if there were any issues relating to people storing items in the right -
of -way causing injuries, complaints related to that, anything of that sort, and
received nothing. I don't believe that using electrical outlets compromises your
safety. I would challenge someone to find something here that it relates to safety.
Um ... I don't believe that the fact that someone is afraid necessarily means that
they are in danger. I believe, uh, Mr. Throgmorton brought this up last time. You
need ... in order to start legislating against people, I believe that you need to have a
justifiable fear. There are things in the world that we find scary. Some people
think clowns are scary.. That doesn't mean that they're dangerous or that we get
to ban clowns. That was a bad example! Um ... so ... okay ... I want to start with
the benches. According to the benchmark's program, there are 115 benches in the
downtown area that are participating in that program. I believe, uh, Miss
Champion last time said that there's a group of about 10 people that we're
concerned about. There are always benches available, even if there are 40 people
sleeping on benches, there are still tons of benches available, and I don't think
anyone here has ever seen 40 people sleeping on the downtown benches. If we
got to that point, we could talk about, you know, a dedicated set of benches for
sleeping, but I just don't see that we're at that point. I also, um, so I requested
complaints related to everything on the ordinances, and couldn't find a
sin ... single complaint related to people's ability to use that ... the benches ever
being compromised, um, people not being able to use benches because of personal
property, etc. Um, also personally I've never seen them full. There are always
tons of them. Um ... yeah. I don't believe that this is about the ability to use the
benches. I think it's about the aesthetics of the benches and people not wanting to
see people sleeping, but ... I have a problem when we start to talk about the
aesthetics of people and the aesthetics of what people are doing instead of the
ability to use the space for a variety of purposes. The Council has mentioned
numerous times the importance of the ped mall as a place that has a variety of
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uses, and if the issue is merely aesthetics, I think that we should consider that the
homeless people's right to use that space in order to rest, in order to sleep, not to
mention someone last time brought up the ability of other people to rest, to sleep,
to lie down on a bench and read a book after you've checked one out from the pru
... Public Library, to take a nap if you're a college student, whatever it is that you
want to do, ought to be a considered a protected right to use that space. Okay. I
want to talk about the solicitation portion of the ordinance. I want to mention that
the aggressive solicitation is already illegal. People can't ask you twice. People
can't touch you. People can't follow you. All of these things are already illegal.
I believe that the only thing that this will do is it's going to concentrate the areas
that people can solicit into much smaller areas, and I'm concerned that it's going
to push people that need to solicit for money, that don't have other forms of
income, onto places like, urn ... by street corners, by the sides of the highway,
places that aren't as safe to solicit as the ped mall. Um, I also want to echo (both
talking)
Hayek: Miss Ingram, you're going to have to wrap up. You're over the five minutes,
please. Thank you.
Ingram: Sorry, I had evidence which was new. Um ... I want to echo what Lorelei Coffin
said earlier that I think street musicians are such an important part of the culture
of the ped mall. It's such a wonderful thing to have downtown, and that we are
sort of unintentionally getting rid of all our street musicians. Okay, um, there's
absolutely no evidence that I could find that sitting on curbs in any way effects
the maintenance of those curbs. So I don't understand why we need to get rid of
sitting on the low curbs. Uh, the storage of property takes up significantly less
space than either the construction, the sidewalk sales, or the downtown cafes that
have open space, uh, in the public right -of -way, which are significantly greater
detriment to traffic. Sidewalk sales are actually like right in your way
intentionally so that people will try to buy things, but it makes it much more
difficult to, uh, use the sidewalks in comparison to, uh, storage of public property.
Electrical outlets, I requested records of all electrical shortages or problems re...
this is my last one, I promise.
Hayek: Thank you.
Ingram: Um, I requested records of all electrical shortages or problems related to personal
use of public outlets. The only thing I received was that apparently last year the
Downtown District hung Christmas lights, using, um, every one of the trees and
all of the electrical outlets, and their only problem was related to a frozen wire
and not the actual capacity of the system. So maybe there's more out there on
shortages and problems, but I have requested all of it and I didn't get any.
Essentially I believe that this is intended to target specific people. It encodes
discrimination into our law. That's encoded in the sense that the storage of
property only relates to ... it. doesn't apply to, uh, mothers and people with children
that are using the play equipment.
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Hayek: Miss ... you (both talking)
Ingram: ... selectively apply. I know, this is my last sentence.
Hayek: Okay.
Ingram: ...it's going to be selectively applied on the basis of people that just want to get
the homeless out of downtown. Thank you.
Hayek: Thank you for your comments. (light applause) Okay, is there anyone else from
the audience? Okay, I'm going to ... close it down for Council deliberation.
Throgmorton: You have a motion on the floor, is that right?
Hayek: Yes!
Throgmorton: I move to amend the proposed ordinance to add four new `whereas' clauses and to
modify ... to modify paragraph 6 concerning the ban on personal possessions, and
to instruct the staff to craft a companion resolution, and (mumbled) elaborate on
that, uh, so I should read the `whereas' clauses and ... you know.
Hayek: Sure!
Throgmorton: So the four new whereas clauses would be (coughs) uh, and incidentally, this is,
uh, my effort to craft these things over the past week or so, so it's imperfect.
Champion: Aren't we all?
Throgmorton: There you go! (mumbled) imperfect anyhow if I had five years (both talking)
Champion: ... go ahead. Read it.
Throgmorton: The four new whereas clauses would be: first, whereas the City recognizes that
the problems associated with homelessness and transience. I don't know if that's
a word actually. Such as mental illness, drug addiction, and alcoholism are
neither unique to Iowa City nor completely within the powers of the City to solve.
Second, whereas the City is committed to treating all people with dignity, respect,
compassion, and justice; and third, whereas the City recognizes that public spaces
are sites of interaction between people with differing values and standards of
proper dress and behavior.
Champion: I read this earlier and it seems like there's a word (several talking)
Hayek: ...let's let, uh, Jim finish.
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Throgmorton: (several talking) Yeah. Uh, fourth, whereas the City has an interest in achieving
voluntary compliance with the provisions of this ordinance and achieving such
compliance through a serve and protect community policing approach. Si ... let
me give a sidelight here. As Officer David Schwindt is quoted as saying in
today's P -C, Press - Citizen, "You can do a lot of bridge building with a pair of
fresh, clean socks." It's a great story about an officer who's doing great work,
and it concisely expresses the kind of approach that we need to make sure we
achieve there. Uh, and I want to praise Dave, and I want to appraise Chief
Hargadine for having assigned Officer Schwindt to that beat. Okay. So back to
the, uh ... the proposed amendment. Uh, also, proposed to amend paragraph 6 by
adding a new paragraph 6e, "The prohibitions described above shall not go ... go
into effect until the City or some other authorized entity provides one or more
alternative locations for the safe, secure, and accessible storage, uh ... no, sorry,
uh, the sentence doesn't make sense. Provides one or more alternative locations
for the safe, secure, and accessible temporary storage of personal possessions. So
I had to delete a couple words there. Lastly, I'm ... I also move that we instruct
staff to draft a resolution accompanying the ordinance, which would express the
Council's intent to strengthen the ... do what it can to strengthen the Johnson
County Local Homeless Coordinating Council.
Dobyns: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Throgmorton, seconded by Dobyns. Discussion?
Champion: Um ... these are quite good, by the way. I have a little problems with ... this one,
because um...
Mims: Which one?
Champion: (mumbled) you shut me up when I had it in my head.
Payne: The third one? The third bullet?
Champion: (laughs) Third, okay! Whereas the City recognizes that public spaces are sites of
interaction between people with differing values and standards of proper dress
and behavior. That doesn't make sense to me! I think there's a word missing.
And ... with differing values, but there are acceptable behaviors everywhere. And
how do we get that in there... without...
Mims: No, I think what Jim is saying is people have differing standards of what is proper
dress and behavior. I ... I don't think there's a word missing. I ... I think I'm
understanding it the way (both talking)
Throgmorton: ... differing values too about...
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Champion: (both talking) I think that ... I think there is a commonality of acceptable behavior
in public places. I ... I agree that (several talking)
Throgmorton: ... illegal behavior is not acceptable. I ... I'm totally on board with that, but illegal
behavior is already illegal and therefore subject to fines, etc. So I'm (both
talking)
Champion: But it's not ... is it illegal to, um, swear at people? Or to yell at children? Are
those things all illegal downtown?
Dilkes: No.
Champion: No!
Dilkes: But this ordinance doesn't address that.
Champion: No, but I'm talking to Jim about his...
Dilkes: Right.
Champion: ...paragraph here. I mean, this is the kind of thing ... that I worry about, I mean,
I ... this is not about home ... a lot of these people who are misbehaving downtown
are not homeless! And so everybody keeps saying we're against the homeless.
We're not against the homeless! I mean, I'm certainly not against the homeless.
(unable to hear person speaking away from mic)
Hayek: Okay, sir, you've got to pipe down.
Champion: I'm not against the homeless. I'm against this aggressive, bad behavior that is
happening for the first time since I've been a downtown business owner, which
has probably been about 37 years. (unable to hear person away from mic) So it's
a different behavior now than I've ever seen and I've defended the ped mall to
everybody in all the years I've been downtown.
Throgmorton: So I ... I ... I understand. So I propose these amendments, but you know, during
our work session we did not dedicate time to ... exploring why I wanted to propose
these amendments. I wonder if you would permit me to explain why I ... I
proposed them.
Champion: Sure!
Throgmorton: And then, you know, people make their judgments. Okay. So ... I ... I'll have to
read because it's just a lot of stuff. Everyone ... I'm going to take time because,
you know, it's an important issue and needs attention. So everyone I've spoken
with agrees the situation, just as you've said, Connie, has grown more troubling
over the past six months or more. I don't know exactly how long. And that
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something needs to be done about it. There's no question about that. From that
point on, people disagree. Some people think the downtown's become more dirty
and dangerous and warn other people not to go there. We have an email in our
packet to...just to that effect today. Others think the proposed ordinance, like
Rockne just said, is just another step toward sanitizing the ped mall through police
enforcement, and that prior Council actions, Beth I guess said this and... and her
daughter, and ... and husband. Um ... prior Council actions have, when coupled
with the construction staging area contributed to the worsening of the situation.
Prior steps have included, and you know, maybe Eleanor could elaborate at some
point if people would want. Prior steps have included the Council's adoption in
2008 of a series of constraints on where people can solicit, lie, or sit on sidewalks,
or smoke. It also increased the fine for littering on the ped mall. In 2010 the
Council constrained even further where people can smoke or solicit. And earlier
this year the Library Board voted to ban sleeping in the Library. The resulting
map, uh, which Sue Dulek, uh, sent to me, the resulting map of where behave...
uh, unacceptable behavior is prohibited is so complex it can't really even be
drawn. I mean, you've got a map ... but then there's all sorts of text about stuff
that's sort of in motion. So I'm persuaded the situation needs attention, but I am
not persuaded that pro ... that the proposed ordinance will improve things and I'm
on board with, uh, Pat Ingram on that particular point. Uh, as I said during our
work session, I think we need to be clear about what the problem is that we're
proposing to solve. We need to be clear about what values we have in mind when
trying to solve it, and we need to thoughtfully consider whether the proposed
ordinance is likely to deal with the problem satisfactorily. So, what problem are
we trying to solve? Or at least address satisfactorily? Five or six months ago we
invited Chrissy Canganelli and a couple other people to speak to us about the
problem hom ... home ... homelessness in our city. They gave us a very
enlightening presentation, but we've done nothing in response, as a Council
anyhow. We've done nothing in response to it. So what are we ... what we are
confronting now is an acute manifestation of the problem of homelessness and
associated ills. If we adopt this ordinance we should simultaneously set in motion
a better community -wide response to the underlying problem. So, second, what
values do we have, should we have in mind when addressing this specific
manifestation of the problem? The draft ordinance before us, the one that, you
know, is the main motion, contains 23 whereas clauses, all of which basically
indicate that we value having traffic flow freely; that we value having a
downtown that is attractive, vibrant, and economically rewarding for downtown
businesses; and that we value shoppers and visitors feeling safe when they come
downtown. These are important values. I completely agree with them. I'm
completely supportive of them. But none of the clauses say anything about
valuing the "offending" individuals themselves. The intrinsic value of the
individuals involved, or valuing the fact that public space is inherently provide
opportunities for the diverse people of the city to encounter one another often in
ways that make some people feel uncomfortable. This is an essential aspect of
public space! It's a place where one is likely to encounter strangers who might
not share one's values, history, perspective, or standards of ba ... behavior. If we
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adopt this ordinance, we should amend it to express the value of the individuals,
uh, express our value of the individuals, uh, and for public space. Lastly, will the
proposed ordinance deal with the acute situation satisfactorily? We've already
adopted a series of several related ordinances over the past five years. The rec
...no, I already said the map of ..where behavior is acceptable is just really hard
to interpret. Before we adopt a new ordinance we should consider simply
improving the existing code and enhancing Officer David Schwindt's and other
officers' community policing approach to enforcement. So, that's why (laughs)
sorry for going on so long, but that's why I'm proposing the amendments to the
ordinance. And I thank you for listening.
Hayek: Eleanor, could you walk us through this in terms of ..we ... we talked earlier about
what would ... and I don't know if the word was a substa ... be a substantive
change, but...but something that if adopted through Jim's motion would cause us
to go back to ... square one, and what would not?
Dilkes: Yeah, I ... I don't think the whereas clauses ... uh, as I said at the work session,
would require you to back up, uh, to first consideration because they're... they're
not the...the actual regulation. Um ... I think the amendment to paragraph 6 that's
being proposed would require, um, that you back up to first consideration. Uh,
this ... the draft resolution about, um, Council's intent is a separate resolution, I
think, as proposed and that certainly wouldn't require you to back up.
Hayek: Would?
Dilkes: Would not.
Hayek: Would not.
Throgmorton: I should say very briefly, I think there're probably some other modifications that
would be appropriate but I ran out of time and I don't (mumbled)
Champion: No, I like what ... I like what you've done. I just have some ... I don't have any
problems with what you've done. I have some problems with the interpreta ...the
way it's going to be interpreted.
Dobyns: It helped me taking a look at the two action items, which are the last bullet, and
then the final paragraph, and asked City staff... it would help inform my vote to
see ... the devil's in the details. Trying to figure out if this could truly be
operationalized, cause I have a ... I'm sure you do too, have all sorts of questions,
um ... and I guess I'd like a quick sense from City staff if...let's look at that last
bullet, um, as far as a safe, secure, and accessible location. Is that ... is that
doable?
Markus: You're talking about the amendment, uh, to paragraph 6 or...
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Dobyns: Yeah (both talking)
Throgmorton: (mumbled)
Dobyns: Yes, the, uh, after the last whereas, the last bulleted item.
Markus: Yeah, I ... I think, um ... I think a better direction would be to have us study the
issue first.
Dobyns: Uh huh.
Throgmorton: Tom...
Hayek: But ... but doesn't this go to the indication we got from staff that ... that, you know,
it's fully their intent to, uh, implement a system to ... to provide for cost -free, uh,
storage and return of any items collected? That's what we're talking about here,
right?
Dilkes: That's ... no, that's proper... that's property that's actually seized. I think...
Hayek: Okay. Sothis is ... this is the general...
Dilkes: I think this is talking about (both talking) Yeah, if you can't store it on the ped
mall then there should be another place where you could store it, I think is the
intent (both talking)
Hayek: Okay.
Dobyns: I think it would be reasonable... perhaps City staff, I mean, 24- hours -a -day to
have safe and accessible, you know, in someone's home, sure. I just don't see in
this, um ... setting, in context, where that could be done but that's something City
staff could take a look at. Um, you know, the size, um, things you need
(mumbled) electricity, these are ... very, you know, difficult operational details,
um ... I guess, Tom, you didn't say no. Um, so I suspect there are some...
Markus: I didn't say no to what?
Dobyns: (laughter) Well the fact that, you know, that ... my sense is that there was some
possibilities that you could, um ... City staff could come up with something that
was reasonably operational that fet ... that fit the, um, the philosophy of this, um,
proposed amendment. (both talking)
Markus: I don't have ... I don't have any problems with the whereases, but I ... I think as
Eleanor suggest, this, uh, materially changes the ordinance to add the paragraph 6
at this point.
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Dobyns: oh, sure, I (both talking)
Markus: ... as long as you understand that.
Dobyns: ...I understand it goes back to first consideration...
Champion: But we can ask staff to look into the possibility of it, rather than have it included
in this.
Markus: And it isn't just the City that could provide the ... that service either.
Champion: Right!
Dobyns: Sure, and I think (several talking)
Champion: We could get the, uh, Local Homeless Coordinating Council to come up with
some ideas.
Throgmorton: Uh... along those lines, I've talked with Geoff Fruin and with Nancy Bird
a ... about this, uh, storage situation. I'm fully aware that they've, uh, been
exploring possibilities. There have been discussions about what could possibly be
done. I think it's simply wrong to say to the cluster of street people down there
you may not bring your possessions or store your possessions down there without
providing them with a... an alternative location for those things to be placed.
Otherwise we're telling them you may not come down, because they gotta have
their stuff.
Dobyns: One of the problems is that as ... as Chrissy, uh, mentioned, uh, previous meeting
is that, um, part of this, uh, group represents a service - resistant population.
Throgmorton: Sure.
Dobyns: We are going to provide them a service which, you know, Jim, it's going to have
to be constrained. This is a little bit open ended, and um, as constrained, I do
have some questions that a service - resistant population is going to be able to
make them, you know, this is going to be a service that they're going to use. It
may look very nice on paper, but I'm not sure it's going to make really any
difference, other than symbolism.
Champion: And I do ... I do think that it's become more of a problem with people's
belongings downtown, because we have so much of the ped mall taken up now by
the construction, and in that ... I think it's exacerbated... exacerbated the problem.
But the fact (mumbled) is the construction is not finished yet and so we're going
to have to deal with this until ... until it is finished and then the more the ped mall
will be open to the public. I do ... I do think that is exac ... has exacerbated it but
like I said before ... the behavior of a particular group down there, and they're not
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all homeless, believe you me, um ... is simply not acceptable to me and I'm pretty
liberal! Come on, I ... I've been around the block a few times! And when I am
bothered by behavior downtown, that means it's really, really bad! Cause I... my
own behavior's not that great.
Dickens: I just think it's a small, very small group of...
Champion: It is!
Dickens: A criminal element. (unable to hear person speaking away from mic) It's ... it's
not the homeless, generally. I watch `em every day out our window. I, you
know, someone said that I probably shouldn't be voting on this because I'm so
involved in that area. I checked with the City Attorney and she said that... was
not necessary for me not to vote on this. Since that time, since the last vote, I've
talked to over 200 to 300 people. They're all in favor of something, and this
ordinance helps the police do their job. Officer Schwindt has done a great job.
Sometimes I think maybe ... you know, he doesn't do enough, and they can't be
there 24 hours a day, and ... and some of that element is there all the time. I watch
drug deals, which is illegal. By the time you call they're gone. Uh, alcohol,
bottles of whiskey being passed around. Well they finally found the guy passed
out up by the ... uh, downtown mall up there and they did arrest him finally. He
had several warrants out for his arrest, but they were passing that bottle around all
morning. Uh, vandalism, our door gets kicked in. It ... It's been quite a while
since that's happened. So I ... I'm not blaming that on ... on the people that are
down there. Um ... the knife attack, you mentioned Frank. Frank can be very
volatile. Everybody knows Frank down there. Uh, swinging a knife around and
saying you're going to cut people, that... that... that is a safety issue, and the ... the
perception, the reason there's not a lot of people on those benches, there's a lot of
benches empty, is because whether it's perception or not, people don't feel it's
safe. And ... that's something we have to work on, to make that perception
different. Uh ... out of those 200 or 300 people that have stopped me or called me,
uh, many of the people I've never met before in my life, and they just ... they ...
they're fed up with the fact that they don't feel comfortable downtown, and... and
part of that could be their problem. I don't know. But a lot of them did come up
with a stor ... cart storage, uh, charging stations. People say that storing all this
stuff is not a problem. We blew up a package at Arts Fest because we thought it
was a bomb. I mean, we ... there are safety issues, whether there may be nothing
wrong with that, but in a lot of cities you can't store anything anywhere because
there is that safety issue. So I'm going to support this. I think we need to work
on it, and I will continue to ... to listen. I think Jim's come up with some very
good ideas, but ... uh, I don't think it's a complete solution and I think we need
more than just us working (both talking)
Champion: Well I did think about extending the non - smoking to the street. Urn ... from the
ped mall. To ... but then I thought well ... that may help that corner but people are
going to go then probably down in front of the Englert to smoke, or in front of
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somewhere else to smoke. Um ... and they don't, you know, and they don't go to
the alleys. They're not going to do that. I don't know what the answer is. I don't
know if this is the answer. I think when the ped mall is back to its more space, it
will help solve part of the ... part of this problem. I really do. But we have to do
something to solve it now (both talking)
Hayek: ...we're starting to stray from the motion that's on the table, and the motion is
Jim's four whereas lines (both talking) right, and ... we ... you're making points
that are really more appropriate for the (both talking) for the original motion, but I
think we need to decide. Are we going to go with Jim's, um, motion or not?
Champion: I'll go with the whereases. Can you amend your motion?
Throgmorton: No, I can't.
Champion: Okay, then I'll have to vote no.
Hayek: Jim, I guess where I am on this is ... uh, I ... I'm probably okay with the whereases.
I ... I think the first bullet point conflates, uh ... uh, an ordinance designed to
address behavior with the issue of homelessness, and I ... I consider them to be
separate issues, both important issues, but notwithstanding that, I'd probably be
open to the whereases, uh, but ... but the amendment to ... to paragraph 6e that
you're proposing and the other, I mean, I would be open to considering those in a
work session, you know, the normal route we would take, but I would not be
interested in adding them to, um ... item 7. So that's where I am.
Dobyns: So moving ... Matt, just to clarify. You're recommending moving forward with
the original consideration, and then coming back to this later in a work session?
Hayek: Well I'm ... what I'm telling ... what I'm saying is ... is if Jim's motion were limited
to the whereases, I could...
Dobyns: Sure. Today.
Hayek: ...compromise on that and ... and ... and support his motion but it sounds like he's
unwilling to amend his motion to do that. He wants an up or a down on what he
has proposed this evening.
Throgmorton: And ... and I'll briefly explain why. The ... to ... to have any substantive meaning,
the whereases need to be followed up with... followed up by some... some
substance... substantive changes in the core of the ordinance itself. I proposed
one substantive change in the core of the ordinance, and you know, I've got notes
about some other modifications in language that would ... that flow from the
insertion of the whereas clauses, cause I'm seeking balance there, about treating
people fairly with justice, etc., and while also ... uh, achieving the other values that
we have in mind.
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Hayek: You know, my reaction is that those ideas may have some merit, but I don't want
to start all over again through this process. Urn ... and ... and Eleanor's telling us
that the ... that the whereases would not trigger that, but everything else would,
and I'm willing to take up the other things, uh, through the normal protocol we
follow, but I don't want to start all over again. So I guess that's the rub for me.
Champion: And I do object to the one whereas, as I said, when he says that everybody has
different standards of proper dress and behavior, because I do think there are
certain public standards for behavior. And you may have your own thing, but it
may not be welcome in public.
Throgmorton: I saw a man running down the street today with shorts on and no shirt.
Champion: That wouldn't bother me!
Throgmorton: Wow, that was outrageous.
Champion: Well (both talking)
Throgmorton: I saw a man ... I saw a man pedaling backwards, pushing a ... a cart, his ... his chair
backward up the street.
Champion: Did you want to make an ordinance against that too?
Throgmorton: No! I think that's pretty strange behavior. Maybe we should...
Champion: I'm not talking about strange behavior. I'm talking about bad behavior.
Throgmorton: Sorry, I'm (both talking)
Hayek: Why don't we, uh, so I ... Jim ... Jim wants his motion voted up or down, which is
fair.
Champion: Okay. Let's vote!
Hayek: Um, we can have further discussion on that, but I think we should probably take a
vote on that pretty soon.
Champion: Okay.
Hayek: Is there any further discussion on Jim's motion? Okay. All those in favor of it
say aye. Opposed say nay. Appears to fail 2 -5.
Dobyns: I move the original, uh, ordinance (mumbled)
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Karr: It ... it's already (several talking) Second consideration?
Dobyns: Uh, second consideration.
Karr: Yeah, it's on the floor. (several talking)
Hayek: It's already, so now we ... we need to continue with discussion of the underlying
item, which is second consideration of Item 7.
Mims: When we took the first vote I voted, um, in support of this and um, I'm not going
to tonight. I think this is incredibly challenging issue that we're dealing with and
I... and (mumbled) some pretty compelling comments in terms of unintended
consequences, um, unintended consequences of things that have been done, you
know, previously in terms of downtown, um, you know, with the smoking ban
and ... and those other issues. Um ... not ... not to diminish at all the ... the
behavioral issues that are being seen down there now, and that ... that need to be
addressed, but ... there, from the beginning there've been certain things in here I
didn't particularly like. I ... I think the issue that we've talked about in terms of
storage for personal items, I think that's a ... a very big issue, I think, for people
who don't have a home, don't have a place to put things. They may use it, they
may not, but at least having that opportunity. But I ... I'm just more and more
concerned about some of the unintended consequences of some of this. I ... I
commend the people who have spent a lot of time and effort, trying to come up
with, um, a plan or ... or an ordinance that would address these issues. Um, I ... I
respect those people and I ... I respect their intent. I think we've made progress in
terms of, um, the community policing with Officer Schwindt down there. I think
we need to continue to work on that. Um, we talked at our work session about
...about homeless issues and asking, I think, Chrissy to come back and talk about
some of the stuff with the, um ... what was it, HomeFirst or whatever it's called
and some of those kinds of things. And then with potential, uh, revisions that Jim
has offered tonight ... I'm not comfortable moving forward the ... with this in the
form that it is at this point in time. So I'm going to vote no.
Payne: I have a question. Was Officer Schwindt, um, involved in the ordinance? So
these are things that he was involved with to help him do his job better?
Markus: He's part of the discussion, yes he was.
Payne: So ... I mean, these are ... not things that were just willy -nilly picked. It was things
that he needed, tools to help him do his job?
Fruin: To address the ... the concerns that were, uh, he was receiving, yes.
Payne: Okay.
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Hayek: Geoff, while you're on that, could you remind us who was part of the process that
led to this proposed ordinance?
Fruin: In... in terms of drafting?
Hayek: Yeah, the discussion and ... and ultimately the ordinance.
Fruin: Well ... well, the ... the ordi ... the drafting of the ordinance and, uh, kind of the
research that went into or looking at other cities, um, was ... was mostly an
internal, uh, function performed by the City Attorney's office, City Manager's
office, and the Police Department. Um, we received a good deal of input from the
Downtown District, as well, and of course with Officer Schwindt's contacts, with
um ... uh, a number of the patrons and ... and uh, visitors to the ped mall, uh, he
was able to relay some of their input. Uh, the Downtown District, uh, I think has
done a ... a very good job of reaching out to some of the social service, uh,
providers as, uh, Bill Nusser mentioned before. Uh, so I ... I know I sat in on a ... a
board meeting where they had a few providers come and offer their thoughts, um,
on ... on homelessness and the ... the experiences that they were, uh, or the
observations that they had on the ped mall. So all of those things filtered in, uh,
to this at some point, but this is over the course of...of several months. This isn't
something that was, um, contemplated and drafted, you know, in a matter of, uh,
days or even weeks. It's something that's, uh, been discussed and, um, evaluated,
uh, over, again, a number of months.
Dobyns: I think that's a good point, Michelle. I think earlier in the day, um, we were
informed by our ... our trust in the City engineer's office and I guess, um, I'd go
from there and just say the Police are part of our staff, as well, and um, if they
think this is something that they'd recommend to us in a position of neutrality, I
think it's, uh, something I will continue to support. And the second consideration.
Champion: Well I will support it. The person I know in this town who is more concerned
with homelessness than anybody I know is Chrissy, and I never can pronounce
her last name, but I just call her Chrissy C who runs Shelter House and she is in
favor of this ordinance. And if she is in favor of it, then I know it must be okay,
because if she would have spoken against it, I could not support it. But she knows
that these, uh, that ... the people who are down here are creating problems, some of
them are not homeless, and she knows who is and who isn't. And that the
homeless people who have the resistant to treatment, this is ... not going to help
them, I mean, but hopefully the social services that are being brought in can ... can
help people. The ... the medically resistant, uh, treatment, uh, people, but not all
...not everybody down there is homeless. But, I think she make ... she makes a
valid point. I'm not going to repeat everything she said, um, but uh, and I ... so
I'm going to support it.
Hayek: I'll ... I will also continue to support it. I made, uh, my points at the first reading.
I ... I won't reiterate most of those. Um, but ... but this is about behavior. It's
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important for us to ... to recognize that. I think if you read the ordinance carefully
you see that that's what it's ... that that is what this is about, um, I looked to the
process that was followed and the input ... and the stakeholders from whom we
received input as this ... as this was crafted, um, I do think it's a balanced,
sensitive, uh, approach. Um, and uh ... I ... I ... I ... those are my comments. Any
further discussion? Roll call, please. Item passes 5 -2, Throgmorton and Mims in
the negative, and we will have (unable to hear person away from mic) third
consideration at our next meeting.
Throgmorton: Matt, could we take a break?
Hayek: Oh, yes! We uh ... three hours and five minutes into this. We will take a brief
pause and then we'll come back and resume where we were in the agenda.
(unable to hear person away from mic)
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ITEM 5e BILLION AUTO WETLAND AMENDMENT —
CONDITIONALLY REZONING 7.13 ACRES OF PROPERTY LOCATED
AT 2845 MORMON TREK BLVD IN THE INTENSIVE COMMERCIAL
(CI -1) ZONE. (REZ13- 00018) (PASS AND ADOPT) [Discussion only at
formal meeting]
Mims: Move adoption.
Payne: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Mims, seconded by Payne. Discussion? Any ex parte since the last?
Any further discussion? Roll call, please. Passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 5f CONDITIONALLY REZONING ROBERTS DAIRY / HY -VEE
GROCERY - CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 7.79
ACRES OF LAND LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF THE
INTERSECTION OF NORTH DODGE STREET AND PRAIRIE DU
CHIEN ROAD FROM MEDIUM DENSITY SINGLE FAMILY (RS -8),
NEIGHBORHOOD PUBLIC (P -1) AND HIGHWAY COMMERCIAL (CH-
1) TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENT OVERLAYCOMMUNITY
COMMERCIAL (OPD- CC -2). (REZ12- 00026) (PASS AND ADOPT)
[Discussion only at formal meeting]
Dobyns: Move adoption.
Payne: Second.
Champion: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Dobyns, seconded by Payne. Discussion?
Mims: Just to say I'm happy to see this back on our agenda.
Champion: Yes!
Mims: This project is moving forward!
Hayek: Any other ... any ex parte, uh, from the second reading many months ago?
Mims: No.
Throgmorton: I do have a question. Jeff, has anything changed since we did our second reading
five months ago?
Davidson: Nothing has changed.
Throgmorton: Thank you.
Hayek: Any further discussion? Roll call, please. Passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 9. RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING POLICE CITIZENS REVIEW -
AMENDING TITLE 8, POLICE REGULATIONS, CHAPTER 8, POLICE
CITIZENS REVIEW BOARD, BY REPEALING CHAPTER 8 IN ITS
ENTIRETY AND REPLACING IT WITH A NEW CHAPTER 8,
CITIZENS POLICE REVIEW BOARD. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Payne: Move first consideration.
Mims: They've asked for expedited...
Champion: Oh!
Hayek: Well we can't do that until the second (several talking)
Karr: We noted that because the minutes indicated... you'll have it the next time.
Mims: Okay.
Champion: Sorry!
Mims: Connie!
Payne: Move ... move first consideration.
Dobyns: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by Dobyns. Discussion?
Mims: Tell Connie to read notes better next time (laughter)
Hayek: Roll call, please. First consideration passes 7 -0.
Champion: (mumbled)
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ITEM 10. SETTLEMENT - RATIFYING SETTLEMENT OF IMMINENT
LITIGATION.
Payne: Move ratification.
Dickens: Second.
Hayek: Moved by Payne, seconded by Dickens. Discussion?
Throgmorton: Somebody should explain.
Hayek: Yeah.
Mims: Yeah.
Hayek: Jeff or Tom or Eleanor or Marian.
Dilkes: Go ahead!
Hayek: Okay, well so ... for the public's information, this relates to the, uh, Landfill fire
which, uh, we suffered in May of 2012 for those who recall. Um, and there was
an issue of insurance coverage, um ... and uh, that was in question for a period of
time. Recently City staff and, uh, our insurance company representatives met in
an attempt to negotiate a settlement. City staff and Travelers' representatives,
that's the entity in question, came to an agreement, subject to City Council
approval to settle the City of Iowa City's claims against the company in exchange
for payment to the City in the amount of $1.85 million, including amounts
previously paid. And so the question before the Council is, do we ratify, uh, the
tentative agreement reached between staff and Travelers Insurance Company for
$1.85 million.
Mims: Well and I would just add to that, I think, uh, I was, uh, we were certainly
informed as a Council through... through the Legal staff and ... and in our meeting
that, uh, just want to say thank you to staff members that were involved in
gathering all the information, um, and actually to our insurance agent who was a
part of that, as well. Um, to thank everybody for their hard work in, uh, getting a
... a very positive settlement for the City.
Hayek: Agreed. Any further discussion? Roll call, please. Passes 7 -0.
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ITEM 14. CITY COUNCIL INFORMATION.
Hayek: We'll start down with you, Jim.
Throgmorton: Oh! Several things. First I had a very fruitful visit, uh, West Union with Geoff
Fruin and Nancy Bird. I think we learned a lot about what they're doing with
regard to pa ... permeable pavers and... LED lighting and... ground, uh, not ground
water. Uh, geothermal, uh, stuff in their downtown. Great visit! Secondly, had a
great time at the Labor Day picnic in City Park yesterday. It's one of the better
events, uh, in... in Iowa City. It was a great, uh, great fun being there. Third, on
Sunday I attended a memorial service for Jennifer Cole who died on August 151H
She's one of the street people who's been living downtown. Uh, along with her
husband, Al, and uh... one of the street people along with her husband Al, um,
Michael Langer, uh, the minister who spoke two weeks ago, uh, in our public
hearing, uh, did a great job conducting that service. It was quite moving being
there. Somebody else is going to mention Trueblood Park. I'll defer that, but
lastly, uh, this coming Sunday at Trinity Church at 12:30, Chrissy Canganelli and
I will be speaking with a peace and justice group about the proposed ped mall
ordinance and homelessness, so uh, you know, anybody who would like to attend
should feel free to come. That's it!
Hayek: Thanks, Jim!
Champion: I'm too cold!
Mims: Nothing.
Throgmorton: Yeah, we ... we want to make a motion down here! (laughter)
Hayek: To increase the heat? (laughs)
Throgmorton: Yeah. Increase the heat or she and I are going to bring in our winter jackets and
stuff.
Champion: Down comforters or something.
Dickens: Most of the Councilors were able to make the dedication for Terry Trueblood,
which was a week ago Saturday and I was lucky enough to go out yesterday. I'm
still a little sore. We rented a canoe for an hour and, uh, brought back those old
Boy Scout training and it's a wonderful park and we could have been out there
longer but there's people waiting so we just took an hour and turned in the canoe
so some more people could use it. (several talking)
Payne: It's gorgeous! I don't have anything.
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Dobyns: Nothing.
Hayek: Uh, I just want to recognize the passing of Bill Phelan who, um ... uh ... was
a ... lea ... huge leader in the community for many decades, uh, attorney, but a
...but a community- minded person who, um, established a very prominent law
firm and ... and did so many things. The ... the biography on the back of his, uh,
service, uh, pamph ... program was in very small type face because this man did so
much for the community and lot of people will miss him.
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