HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-10-15 TranscriptionOctober 15, 2013 Iowa City City Council Work Session
Council Present: Champion, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Fruin, Dilkes, Karr, Boothroy, Rackis, Dulek, Long, Moran,
Fosse, Yapp, Bockenstedt, Davidson
Others Present: Bramel (UISG)
Questions re: Agenda Items:
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Hayek/ Why don't we, uh, go ahead and get started, uh, with the work session. It's, uh, 5:01. I
want to welcome everyone to City Hall. Um, we've got a number of bullet points to get
through, that's why I'm going to go ahead and jump in. The first item is questions
regarding agenda items.
ITEM 5. PROPERTY SALE 321 EAST DAVENPORT — AUTHORIZING
CONVEYANCE OF THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 321 EAST
DAVENPORT STREET.
Mims/ I had a question on #5, the property sale on east Davenport. What's the ... when we have
property like that, what's the typical process in terms of, I mean, is that put up to bid or...
basically we had the price on it but nothing about the process or the purchaser. I was just
curious.
Boothroy/ In this situation the abutting property owner, uh, made an offer for the, uh, dollar
amount that we paid for the property, including the removal of the house that had burned
there. It's a narrow lot. It's 40 -feet by about 150. It abuts the backyard of the old
Shelter House property.
Mims / Right.
Boothroy/ Uh ... the purchase agreement, uh, requires that the two lots be joined as one.
Mims/ Okay.
Boothroy/ And that the, uh, since it's in a historic district, the garage that he intends to build
must meet, uh, their design criteria, as well as location, and approved by the Historic
Preservation Commission and it also provides a rear yard area for his house that fronts
on, uh, Gilbert Street.
Mims/ Okay.
Boothroy/ So that's ... it's kind of an L- shaped...
Mims/ Sure!
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Boothroy/ ...with alley access so...
Mims/ Okay!
Boothroy/ Yeah.
Mims/ Okay! Thank you.
Hayek/ Other questions on the agenda?
ITEM 2b(3) Planning and Zoning Commission — September 19
Dobyns/ I had a question for Jeff Davidson. Jeff, this is on the Planning and Zoning
Commission, um ... reading through the notes. Uh, regarding ... I guess Karen was talking
to the, uh, I guess she's going to have a discussion with the P &Z Committee about hybrid
zoning and, um, use - based, form -based elements.
Davidson/ Uh huh.
Dobyns/ Um ... is there going to be a time ... are you... Council's going to get some in ... maybe
(both talking)
Davidson/ ...you're going to get the same presentation.
Dobyns/ ...we're going to get educated, okay!
Davidson/ Yeah, Karen will actually make that presentation. It's ... it's in ... it's getting ready to
go to P &Z. We've been working on it for months and it's ... it's a...
Dobyns/ Okay.
Davidson/ ...it's a little bit of a, I mean it's a really effective zoning code tool for the Riverfront
Crossings' area, basically helps us implement the plan that you've already produced, but
it is complicated and it's something that we haven't done before, so Karen will make that
presentation to you...
Dobyns/ Okay.
Davidson/ ... um ... before it gets to you.
Dobyns/ Cool, all right. Thank you.
Throgmorton/ Maybe I could spin off that very briefly, Jeff. Uh, a couple weekends ago my wife
and I went to South Bend, Indiana, uh, and visited Notre Dame's campus, you know, for
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various reasons. Uh, there's a new development just to the east of Notre Dame called
"Eddy Commons."
Davidson/ Eddy?
Throgmorton/ Yeah, and it sure looks like form -based development stuff to me. It's certainly
new urbanist in ... in appearance. Uh, and it seems to be very, very successful. So, I ... I
think (both talking)
Davidson/ We'll check it out!
Throgmorton/ ...thinkin' y'all might, at least online, take a look at it.
Dobyns/ Yeah, I looked at it too! (mumbled)
Davidson/ Well that ... that form -based code, not to belabor it, but is ... is going to be a really
effective tool, obviously subject to your approval, but a really effective tool for
implementing our Master Plan down there. So we ... we look forward to bringing it to
you.
Champion/ Jim/ what'd you call that development?
Throgmorton/ Eddy Commons. So it's E- d -d -y, Eddy.
Champion/ Thank you.
Hayek/ There's lot of university- acquired and devel ... redeveloped land around the campus, as
well.
Throgmorton/ Oh yeah, yeah.
Hayek/ That's (mumbled)
Mims/ A lot they still own. They rent to (several talking) yeah.
Throgmorton/ I don't know (several talking) just walked around.
Hayek/ Are there agenda items? Note that, uh, there is an addition, l Ob, which is an appeal
regarding an application for assembly permit.
Champion/ Oh for that (both talking) restaurant thing or cart thing in the park?
Hayek/ Cart! (both talking) ...we're going to take it up at the end of the agenda this evening, so
it's an add -on.
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Throgmorton/ Yeah, I don't know if any of you have had a chance to read that. I skimmed over
it really quickly and...
Champion/ I did read it.
Throgmorton/ ... (laughs) I wanted to give it its due consideration. Uh ... I don't know if there's
some moment when we can actually take eight minutes to read it or something (laughs)
you know. (laughter)
Hayek/ Yeah, I know, um, well this ... I don't think this work session'll go the full bore this, uh,
this afternoon. If you want to ask some questions (several talking) I mean ... and I don't
know whether Eleanor would ... would answer questions during the work session (several
talking)
Throgmorton/ ...enough time to read enough to know what questions I might want to ask so...
yeah, I bet you're right about the work session time.
Hayek/ Other agenda items? Okay! Move on. Item 2 is, uh, staff's proposed strategy for the
sale or dispersion of public housing units.
Staff s Proposed Strategy for the Sale or Dispersion of Public Housing (03):
Boothroy/ And for the record, Doug Boothroy, Director of Housing Inspection Services, and
with me tonight is Steven (clears throat) excuse me! Steven Rackis, Housing
Administration. First thing I'd like to do is, um, deal with the issue that I think's been
floating around out there about the reduction in public housing. Uh, the staff's
recommendation is that there is no reduction in public housing. We have 81 units. We're
recommending that we keep 81 units, even under the proposal that we have before you.
In addition, uh, Council hasn't really made any decision either. We ... this has been a
process by which we have been gathering information, looking at alternatives, and uh, it's
culminated in this particular recommendation. Things have changed since we last talked
in ... I don't know when it was, but back in 12...I think it was 2012 maybe, but anyway,
uh ... uh, as I indicated in our memorandum, the sequestration cuts have had a significant
impact on the Section 8 rental assistance program. And I know we're here to talk about
public housing, but we need to talk about public housing support of Section 8, as part of
the reason that we cannot decrease the number of units that we have. The revenue that
we receive from rents and the operating subsidy, and public housing is primarily
supported by those two, uh, pieces of revenue, uh, is sufficient to support, uh, Section 8
rental assistance program to about the tune of 18 %. So when the sequestrations went into
effect last spring, we adjusted our charge -backs to the maximum amount allowed by
HUD to, uh, have the public housing program, uh, further assist in the support of the
administration functions of the Section 8 program. Now as you ... as I indicated in the
memorandum, there's a 30% reduction in the fees, um ... I believe that sequestration is
here to stay for a while, at least for a couple years. Um, things are crazy in Washington,
and we're not sure, you know, what's going to happen. And these budget considerations
are serious to the operation of Section 8 and we strongly recommend that for this reason
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alone that public housing, uh, not be reduced, and that income not reduced from the
Section 8 program. Keep in mind that the Section 8 program is a multi- county program.
It serves Johnson County, particularly, uh, we have residents in Coralville and North
Liberty, but it also serves Washington and Iowa County. So the decision about reducing
revenue, if we've reduced public housing, impacts not only Iowa City but it is a county-
wide, uh ... uh .... uh, impact on the provision of affordable housing in the other parts of
Johnson County. And I want to make it very ... I ... I can't stress enough how serious this
matter is with regard to the budget impacts on the administration of Section 8, and there
will be more information that will be following in the future about ... about the changes
that we need to make. So that's one reason for not reducing public housing.
Uh ... another reason is that, uh, the public housing, and we've talked about this before
and I'll repeat it. Another reason is that public housing provides a unique opportunity for
our clients, uh, to, uh, rent single - family, primarily detached, scattered site housing and
zero -lot line, in some cases like in the Whispering Meadows neighborhood, and this is
not available in a multi - family setting. So public housing is very popular with low -
income families with children to find housing that is similar, uh, and in .... to, uh, in low -
density neighborhoods with good schools so they can have the advantage of a rear yard
and some of the things the rest of us, uh, benefit from. Uh ... as we look at the
recommendations, and I want to talk about those in a moment, the other thing that you
should, uh, I want to share with you is that ... when we make these recommendations
about looking at dispersing public housing, moving it around, uh, we do it in the best of
...of, uh, intentions as far as serving our clients. Uh ... the Section ... uh, the public
housing program, uh, has doubled since I became director in 1984. Uh, I built 33 units in
the Whispering Meadows area. I built ... I acquired existing housing, approximately 20,
and rehabbed them. Uh, so there's about 50 -some units that we, uh, expanded, uh, as an
opportunity to provide to our clients in this com ... in this community. In addition, uh, I
tripled the number of Section 8 vouchers in this community since 1984, more than tripled
it! Uh, and that particular program, uh, brings in between $5 and 6 million a year and
that adds up for Johnson County over the last 10, 15, 20 years, depending on how you
want to add it up, uh, in time. So my point of this as we talk about these
recommendations, is that we have — and for the public to know — we have a strong
commitment to the health of public housing. We have a strong commitment to, uh, the
health of the Section 8 program. But, if we're going to look at, uh ... uh, dispersing public
housing. If we're going to look at moving it around the community, providing other
affordable housing opportunities is a must in order to provide the space to make those
decisions. We ... we're saying that we'd like to keep the, uh ... uh, not have any reduction
in the number of public housing units from 81, but in order to, uh, look at dispersing
those into other parts of the community, we need to do that so that we can reduce, uh,
certain units in other neighborhoods, such as mentioned earlier in an earlier
memorandum, like Indigo Court. It may not happen there. I think that, uh, it depends on
what's available and what we are able to sell, but ... but those are the types of decisions
we need to be able to make. So let me give it ... make ... make that a little bit more
specifically. If Council, which is ... has ... has told us over the past decade, let's say or... I
think the last time I bought public housing and rehabbed it was 1995, so whatever that
adds up to, that they didn't want... you didn't want to go forward with looking at existing
units, uh, and rehabbing them, it makes it very difficult if you don't have those in your
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housing stock to maintain a, uh, number of units that are important to the health of the
program. If we give ... are given the authorization to move forward to buy existing units
and rehab them (coughing, unable to hear speaker) six, then we have the option of...of...
of selling six in another part of the neighborhood or in other parts of the community.
And, this then allows us to disperse the location of public housing, but it also allows us to
create opportunities for homeownership. Uh ... even when we sell those public housing
units, we are not selling them to, uh, the public, uh ... uh, that can't qualify for the public
housing and Section 8 program. The whole purpose of the, uh, tenant -to- ownership
program, which is our TOP program, is what the name says. It is to benefit the tenants,
and we have benefitted the tenan ... tenants over the years. Uh, approximately 30% of the
units that we've sold for homeownership opportunities have gone to African- American
head of household families. So it's not ... uh ... that's an important thing to remember as
we look at...at these, uh, at this ... this program, this Section 5H program. The, uh,
program has been in effect and approved by Council, uh, since 1993. Uh, and that
particular program requires that when we have a ... a unit that we've identified that we'd
like to sell, or a tenant comes to us and says that they would like to buy the unit they're
in, which by the way was ... did happen for quite a few of the units that we sold, uh... um,
we are able to do that by agreement with HUD that the two ... the TOP program requires
that we offer these units, uh, to our client base, that we offer these units to the tenants in
place, that we offer these units to public housing, uh, participants that may not have, uh, a
unit in the area that they would like to live, that we offer these units to Section 8, uh, that
we offer these units that are on our waiting list, all of which, uh, have to come first before
we even can offer them to the public, and I want to make this crystal clear tonight — we
can't even offer `em to the public until the unit is vacant. We cannot ask the tenant to
leave because we want to sell the unit. We can't ... we cannot evict the tenant from the
unit, uh ... uh ... it ... basically once the tenant has left the unit, then we can decide whether
or not we want to ... to sell. Uh, I drafted the ... the TOP program in 1993. I got Council's
approval of that particular program. I got HUD approval of that program, and I know
that there may be some people that feel that that program is not a good program, but...
but at the time we drafted that, HUD gave us, uh, 20 units of...for having a Section 5h
TOP program and they were built in Whispering Meadow, along with 13 public housing
units. They were all public housing units, but 20 of `em were for sale and 13 of `em
for ... to add to the public housing, uh, stock. So it has had a positive impact in that way.
We've also sold at least 26 public housing units. We had close to 106 at one time, and
now we're down to 81. Uh, and then we've also used the funds from that sale program to
increase homeownership opportunities, and I think that's... that's in the area of around 40,
uh, units that were either built or rehabbed, uh, for people at 80% median income, for
people that qualify for public housing and the Section 8 program. So back to what I
started out by saying is that we don't recommend reducing the number of units below 81.
We have financial reasons at this point in time, uh, that, uh, would not be a good idea
to ... to do that. It would jeopardize the Section 8, uh, administrative, uh, element in terms
of the ... how we administer those particular funds, and I don't know at what point it'll get
better but ... but that's where we sta ... we're at this state at this point. You know, what I'd
like to hear from ... hear from you tonight is a couple things. Number one, you agree that
we, uh ... uh, should keep the 81 units and maintain, uh, the integrity of the financial
condition of the Housing Authority and Section 8. Number two, that you encourage us to
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look at flexible ways to ... to expand affordable housing in the community, uh, which
would include purchase and rehab of, uh, existing homes that could be used for public
housing that would be comparable to those that would be in the Section, uh, in the, uh,
Whispering Meadows or other, uh, areas of... of the community. Uh, if you're in
agreement with that, moving forward, uh, then we can come back to you with .... with a
plan for dealing with that, existing housing. We can come back to you at whatever point
we negotiate a public /private partnership, uh, and ask you to take a look at that, but
remember, each and every step of the way, whether it's purchasing something or selling
something, uh, at ... each of those decisions come back to you for, uh, approval. So, you
know, whether you agree or disagree at this point in time, moving forward doesn't...
doesn't, uh ... uh, you know, you're still in a situation where you've gotta make the final
call, uh, based on our recommendations. So ... with that, any questions?
Champion/ Well, I'm the one that wanted this on the, uh, work session agenda. First of all, I'm
not a ... I'm not for selling the public housing. I mean, I think you have to keep the
number you have. My whole idea of it was, when you talked about the owner- tenantship
program, that then you would replace that unit somewhere else in the city.
Boothroy/ And that's what we're proposing.
Champion/ ...it's dispersement, which I'm interested in, because even though it's City - owned,
it's well- maintained, there seems to be this negative attitude about it and there shouldn't
be but there is. But first of all, I'm not interested in your selling all the public house...
I'm interested in you selling it ... on the tenant -to- ownership program and replacing it with
some diversity in the ... in the city and I think rehabbing an old house is the perfect
solution!
Boothroy/ And actually, uh, we did ... I did 20 of those, some of those were the old (mumbled)
900 square feet (mumbled) probably don't know what that is, but they were all built, uh,
with hardwood floors, and we sold many of those, or most of those, because number one
they were affordable because they were small, and number two, the quality of the
construction, uh, and we have very few of those houses left, but they ... they were almost
all sold to tenants, uh, who were in place at the time and they were highly desired, uh,
because of the quality and the hardwood floors and everything like that.
Champion/ I mean, but that's where I was coming from (mumbled) where I've been coming
from for a long time is di ... diversing. It is ... what am I ... you know what I'm trying to
say!
Mims/ Spreading it out (several talking)
Champion/ Spreading it out... spread... spread it around. Um, so I'm ... I'm ... I thought your
memo was really good, by the way, and ... was it also in that memo you had other things
that we were doing for affordable housing? Was that also in that memo? I read (both
talking)
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Boothroy/ Well you know we've had some conversations about, um, you know, a ... uh, targeting
elderly and handicapped for ... uh, working with people that want to put projects like that
together, and I think that's ... there is a, you know, we did the Peninsula project a few
years ago. That's 10 units. Uh, in partnership with the, uh, the Iowa City Fellowship, uh,
and there's another example how the TOP funds, uh, helped make that project a reality,
uh, and the, uh ... uh, there's a huge demand for that so it's not just the replacement
of.. of the single - family housing units that we ... that we're talking about. We're also
talking about expanding, if we can, opportunities for disabled and elderly people, and
those would be more like two - bedroom units. And more likely in a ... in a more of a
multi - family setting.
Champion/ Just refresh my memory a little bit. Was it the City who built that universal house
over on... C Street or somewhere, was that for low - income? Do you remember that?
Boothroy/ Yes, uh, it was ... (both talking) I actually won the Governor's Design I guess that year
for best design, uh, so I built that unit and it was, uh, we sold it to three individual, three
men, who came to live together, uh ... uh, all of which had, uh...um, accessibility needs
and urn ... now they've all moved on and uh, we bought it back here recently. Um,
unfortunately they've had to move into other care arrangements, but they ... we sold that
in 90....4 or 5, something like that, so they lived there quite a long time. So it ser ... it
served a good purpose but, um, it needs ... it needs to be upgraded in order to make it
attractive to a ... to somebody else to move in.
Throgmorton/ So, Doug, I'm a very strong supporter of the public housing program. I think it's
extremely well administered and provides high - quality housing for people who need it.
So that's (both talking)
Boothroy/ Great! (laughs)
Throgmorton/ ...that's where I stand on that! Uh, so clearly I don't want to reduce the number
of...of public housing units. Uh, I do not necessarily oppose dispersing some of the units
to other parts of the city, but the main challenge we face with regard to housing is
ensuring that in the Iowa City area we have a sufficient supply of housing that people can
afford. So just moving a few units around isn't going to help that at all. So...
Boothroy/ It doesn't expand.
Throgmorton/ It doesn't expand anything. So it... it... so it doesn't become high on my agenda,
dispersing some of the units does not become high on my agenda. So what it does make
me wonder is ... what specifically would be the motivation, the rationale, for selling units
say in Whispering Meadows, or say on Indigo Court, or some ... what would the rationale
be, A ... had there been uni ... problems that are uniquely associated with those particular
houses, the occupants of those houses, or anything else like that? (both talking)
Boothroy/ I don't think ... I don't think ... I wouldn't say this is ... this is about solving a serious
problem, uh, down there, but what I would say to you is that ... that those units are
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smaller. They're ... at the time I built those, HUD had standards that you couldn't go
above 900 square feet or 1,000 square feet. They kept you... regardless of what it cost,
they kept you, you know, they ... they did make an exception .... I was able to put carpeting
in. And air conditioning. But, you know, there's that kind of, you know, they were very
restrictive at that time, but these units are about 900 to 1,000 square feet. They're three
bedroom. They' slab on grade. We made them very energy - efficient; they're, uh, at the
time we constructed them, uh, and what I look at this is an opportunity, if we can, to go in
there and improve those units that we have, improve the streetscape around those units,
dress them up and make them more attractive, and ... and make them marketable, and...
and they are affordable, Jim. They ... some of the houses that we've done, that ... that we
bought and rehabbed, are bigger houses and cost more, uh, to sell. These at...at that size
are probably going to be around $90,000 to $100,000. That's a very affordable house for
somebody at 80% median income. So, what we're saying is ... is, it's still the same
income group, but it's not public housing, and we ... it gives us an opportunity to expend
some of our cap funds and... and, that we have in public housing, to improve the
neighborhood on that particular... in that particular area, and maybe make a difference.
It's really not unlike what you're doing with UniverCity, in some ways. We're trying to
go in there and make an impact. We have six to eight units in there. I think we can make
that impact. If we have the opportunity!
Champion/ So it actually is increasing the affordable housing (both talking)
Boothroy/ Just differently.
Champion/ ...is able to buy that and ... but you're not reducing the number. You're adding
another one. So in a sense over long -term, it is increasing affordable housing. And I
like ... I love the tenant -to- ownership program. I think it's excellent!
Hayek/ Doug, can you explain the, um, the ... for lack of a better word, impediment to the
acquisition rehab approach.
Boothroy/ Well, one of the impediments was you all.
Hayek/ Right. (laughter)
Boothroy/ So ... (laughs) if we can get rid of that one, which ... that's a huge step (several talking
and laughing)
Hayek/ ...lead -based paint issue, is it...
Boothroy/ No, it's not lead -based paint.
Hayek/ Is it ... is it...
Boothroy/ Um ... uh ... uh, at the time, in 95, uh, there wasn't much of an impediment at all as far
as finding, uh, housing. HUD gave us the money, uh, to go out and secure the units, and
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um ... we were able to find quite a few ... we were able to make all those purchases
and ... and move forward with it. Uh, I think the difference between now and then
probably is that ... that the cost of that housing has gone up, and so, uh, our ... our dollar
commitment... our... our dollars aren't going to go as far! Whereas we might have been
able to buy ... you know, six back then. We might only be able to buy four with the same
amount of dollars. Uh, we did lead -based paint abatement on all the units. Uh, what we
found was that most of that abatement occurred, uh, around windows and doors and
garage doors, and the way I handled that was I just encapsulated it with ... I ... I put vinyl
siding on some of the houses, or I ... I enclosed or encapsulated the windows and doors,
uh, with a... a... so it wasn't a... it wasn't a huge expense, but it was an expense that had
to be added into it. Um ... we were very successful and I today still get calls, people
wanting to sell me houses, and we haven't been in that market since 95. So, once you got
it out there, it seems like people were always, uh, and I think what made it successful for
us, Matt, is ... no hassle. I had cash. Done! We just ... we just ... we bought it cash
outright and walked ... and it was ours, and so people didn't have to worry about
contingencies and all other kinds of things, and uh, we spent on average, um... if they
were asking ... we were probably at 90 %...96% of what they were asking.
Hayek/ And then the ... the reduction of I think it was 26 units over a period of years. Is that
(both talking)
Boothroy/ Approximately 26.
Hayek/ Okay! Was that like a, was that the result of the tenant - ownership program?
Boothroy/ Yes!
Hayek/ Okay.
Boothroy/ Completely.
Hayek/ Okay.
Dickens/ I think I asked you before...
Boothroy/ That's the only program that's approved for, uh, sale of public housing.
Dickens/ I think I asked you before about, is there land that the City owns around town that isn't
being used or that can't ... can be built on? I thought you said ... you showed me all the
pieces that we had that were kind of helter - skelter, and there really isn't... much...
Boothroy/ No, there really isn't. But I ... I think our dollar goes... goes farther with buying
existing houses and rehabbing `em, and one thing that I thought worked really well is
some of the best units that we had and most attractive units that we had that people
wanted to buy that were tenants, uh, were those ones that we bought in existing
neighborhoods. They were established neighborhoods. They were mature. They had
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trees. They had established schools. Uh, and they blended in well, and you might only
have in a neighborhood one, two houses at most, uh .... and people could live in that
neighborhood and never know that there was ever a public housing unit in that
neighborhood. So they blended in because they were the same, they were built at the
same time and looked the same as everybody else's houses.
Dobyns/ So, Doug, if we're trying to, um... scatter low- income housing and we sell a property in
one part of the city, it seems to me that the money we would get back from sale of that
property would not be able to afford a similar sized property in another part of town. My
thinking, another part of town we might want to move low- income housing probably is a
higher price for property.
Boothroy/ Well with (both talking)
Dobyns/ ... how do we actually (both talking)
Boothroy/ ...take the TOP funds, for example. We ... it ... it's approximately 26 and I'll, you
know, and ... and in each of those units we probably had a subsidy, um, and I'm
ballparking this cause I don't remember every one, but you know some place between
$20,000 and ... and $30,000 out of, you know, a hundred and some. So we're walking
away maybe with $70,000 on each one of those units, some of the more expensive ones,
uh, and you.... that... that accumulates. So right now in the top ad hoc, uh, fund we have
something approaching a million dollars that we can use for homeownership
opportunities. That means rehabbing houses and doing other kinds of things. Uh, but
that's because we ... we've got a critical mass as a result of selling public housing over the
years. Um, and that's... that's kind of how it has to work. We have to ... we have to have
had that experience in order to have the resources, because HUD's not giving us any
additional resources to expand public housing. I mean, there are no dollars available. It
comes from our public housing reserves and it comes from money that we've, uh, we
accrued or ... or, uh, got when we sold Broadway, uh, back in the 90s, uh, for transitional
housing. And uh, and that's the kind of money that we would have to work with to make
this work.
Dobyns/ This might (both talking)
Boothroy/ ...we do have money to help make it work ... but it's going to get stretched thinner
than it would have 20 years ago.
Dobyns/ This comment, question might apply to the next agenda item better, but ... it would seem
to me that, you know, if we sell and acquire, trade, that that's sort of a geological sort of
speed. I mean, I think there was some suggestion it would be very slow.
Boothroy/ Well I don't think the acquiring would be slow. I don't want ... I think the selling
would be slow. Uh ... uh, when I did the 10 units .... the last time I did, well, I had two
batches of 10 units. The last time I did 10 units, uh, I ... I bought them all within a two to
three month period of time. I ... was able to purchase them that quickly. So, it all depends
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on what the market's like and how ... how available the units are. So I don't think that...
that end of it is ... is going to be slow, but the other part is because of the ... of the
conditions that I mentioned to you earlier with regard to, uh, the tenant -to- ownership
program, and there's the ... the other thing to keep in mind is, uh, even if we buy a house
in another neighborhood and we put it ... there's an advantage to putting it in the public
housing program, uh, at least for the short run because we can use our resources that we
have accumulated over the years, CAP funds and other things, to rehab it, and then we
can still turn around and sell that at some point so, uh ... that's, you know, that ... that's
kind of the dynamics of what ... that, what would have to go on. So we might not always
have to wait to sell the unit, uh ... uh, we may come back to you and say, well, we fixed
this unit up. We've had it for a year or two, and now the tenant that happened to move in
wishes to buy it, which is what happened before. And we would like to encourage that,
no matter where it is! So, you know, waiting for the customer ... in let's say Indigo Court
area, uh, is going to take time.
Throgmorton/ Doug, let's play out a (both talking)
Boothroy/ But we may ... I guess to finish my thought, we may have actually more public housing
units than 81 for a period of time, until we exchange them for ... to get back down to 81.
Payne / What's a period of time? Ten years? Twenty years? Two years? In your experience.
Boothroy/ Well, I think the, um, I don't know how long it took us to sell the 26 units, um ... uh...
I'd have to ... I ... I honestly don't remember. It's ... it was at least probably five years, um,
betw ... how long? (unable to hear person in audience) About nine years...
Hayek/ You'll have to come up (both talking)
Boothroy/ ...about nine years.
Rackis/ (mumbled) ...we sold the first one in 93. I think the last one that we sold was 2006.
Boothroy/ Okay. So that's about ... and part of that, part of that, uh, also was that we made a...
also a decision at that point to not go below 81 because of budget considerations ... as
well. So that's what, nine years? Is that right?
Payne/ 93 to ... 06 is 13.
Boothroy/ Yeah, it's more! But, you know, what happens, Michelle, is that we had a rush to the
well for the first few and then the others took longer. So, uh, we had clients ready to go,
uh, when we had the first half a dozen or so. They went quickly, but it got more difficult
as time went on. To find people to qualify.
Champion/ What is 80% of median income? Off the top of your head.
Boothroy/ I ... I don't have that on top of my head! (laughs)
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Champion/ (laughs) You don't?
Throgmorton/ The memo says 64,000.
Champion/ Okay!
Boothroy/ That sounds right, but...
Throgmorton/ Can I play out a hypothetical with you? Let's say that we authorized, uh, staff to
sell...
Boothroy/ (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ Let's say that we authorized staff to sell six or eight units in the, generally
speaking the Whispering Meadows area. Where would you locate new or rehabbed
housing? You're going to say the market, depends on what the market (both talking)
Boothroy/ Well ... I think ... we, in the past we bought what was for sale on the market, uh, and we
looked at, uh, the affordability of that unit and ... and so ... uh, I found the unit, uh, I
inspected the unit and decided whether or not we wanted to invest in the unit. Uh ... uh...
and we ... we bought them all over town, Jim. We bought them, uh ... uh ... north of
Muscatine and east of First Avenue, uh, a bunch of units. We bought a unit down, uh,
what was used to be called, uh, Mosquito Flats. We bought ... we bought units
everywhere. Douglas Court, we bought two units down there. We bought a ... we bought
`em whenever we found them, wherever we found them, and uh ... uh, we were lucky, or I
was lucky at that time to be able to find those units quickly and to purchase them
and ... and to put them in the public housing program, um ... I don't know what the
market's like right now. It might take a little more time.
Throgmorton/ Okay. Thanks. So if I could follow up one ... one other point, uh, and I'm going to
express this as a question, which I know some people in the community have, uh, just to
kind of get to the nub of it. Uh, I think there's some concern that, uh ... the ... the housing
that would be sold is currently lived in by basically low - income African Americans, uh,
who somehow, um... don't fit in well enough, according to some people in... in the area,
and I noticed that in the memo, uh, the ... the memo refers to, uh, new housing or
rehabbed housing that would be made available to elderly and disabled low income
people. So my ... my question is, is this just another way to make it harder for low income
African Americans to find places to live in the city.
Boothroy/ Well and (both talking) ...my answer is no!
Throgmorton/ Right, so...
Boothroy/ ... and ... and your decision which should be no, because when I ... when we come back
to you about selling, you have ... you have that call! You have the final say on what is
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sold and what is not sold. Uh, when we acquire a three- bedroom house in another part of
the neighborhood, which is maybe even larger than what's in Whispering Meadows,
probably is cause those are about 900 square feet, the smaller ones, uh, I assume that, you
know, you would give a positive, uh, answer to ... to us going forward of buying that
house. So, uh, yes I think that ... I think that, uh, our experience with the Peninsula
project and ... and what we hear from our clients is that there is a huge need and let's not
...let's not put this down. A huge need for two - bedroom units for elderly and
handicapped. It is huge! And ... and people are not building it. People are not providing
it, and you can't find buildings which are accessible for it. Okay?
Throgmorton/ Right.
Boothroy/ So you cannot under ... I wouldn't ... I wouldn't play those two off against each other. I
think both need to be served and they need to be served well.
Champion/ And not all elderly and handicapped people are... are... are African American either.
I mean it's...
Boothroy/ Or white!
Throgmorton/ Or white, right.
Champion/ So it's ... you know, it is a big problem if you're handicapped in this ... in this
community to find a place to live.
Boothroy/ I think what ... what the ... the point of the memo is is that, again, is that we want space
in order to make these future decisions about moving things around. I believe that we
need to improve the neighborhood of Indigo Court, and I believe that one of the ways that
we can go about that is to encourage homeownership and encour ... and improve the look
of these units and try to make an impact that way. I don't know whether it'll succeed or
not, but I think it's ... it's worth trying. But before we can get there, we need to find
replacement in other parts of the community, and we can do that. We can ... we can find
that, but it may, depending on the market and availability of housing units, it may take a
little bit longer, uh, than it did in 95.
Hayek/ You know, my thought ... I mean I ... I think it was a mistake for the City to develop 30-
some units in a very, uh, constrained area, which I think were among the very first units,
uh, back in the day...
Boothroy/ We were the only units there.
Hayek/ Well, okay, so ... so and ... and I noticed that when I was on HCDC and did the Scattered
Site Housing, uh, Task Force, um, and it... and it concerned me and... and it concerns me
now, um, but that's... that's our history, and ... and, but I don't know whether this, um,
proposal is worth pursuing. It may be, but I'm ... I'm kind of undecided about it. Frankly,
I think the next item, which is dealing with housing issues on a regional level, um, is ... is
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... is ... is of greater significance in ... in many respects, and we have tried to get, you
know, so ... so much of the new, uh, new, uh ... jobs being created are... are... are low -wage
and they are on the west end of our greater area. Um, we have struggled to get buy -in
from our neighbors in terms of addressing housing on a regional level. It is certainly a
regional problem. Um... and I think maybe we're getting a little traction. We've gone
down this road and run into dead ends, um, but, uh ... that's the thing that I find myself
thinking more about. (mumbled)
Boothroy/ Well the Section 8 program too, it...it leads into ... I mentioned this earlier. We're
getting more utilization of vouchers in the areas that you're talking about, in Coralville,
North Liberty, in other parts of the community. It used to be that, I won't say everything
was in Iowa City, but with the growth around us, it's spreading out and I think that's an
important part of...of affordable housing in other communities, as well.
Hayek/ But that's private sector, using the vouchers (both talking)
Boothroy/ It is private sector, but it...it is public dollars.
Hayek/ Understood, but I'm talking about collaboration with local municipalities in the county
to ... to, uh, to achieve these ends.
Champion/But we haven't had any interests from them in helping us with this problem. Isn't
that correct?
Hayek/ Yeah, I mean there's ... I think the ... I think there are hints of cooperation from other...
Champion/ Hints!
Hayek/ Well, North Liberty for example at a joint meeting.
Champion/ Well North Liberty was...
Mims/ ...they said they were interested.
Champion/ Right, they ... they were going to...
Hayek/ I think that's a start! Um...
Dickens/ (mumbled) ... showed some...
Hayek/ I think Solon did and I think Lone Tree did.
Boothroy/ Well I need to hear from you tonight whether we're going to, if you're ... if you're
ready to decide whether or not you're going to reduce public housing, or you're just
going to leave it at status quo, uh, I mean, cause ... we've had a series of meetings over
time and I think in part, uh, we're getting a lot of feedback and concern, uh, that that's
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what's going to happen. So we need to clear the air, at least, on that issue, and as I
indicated before, this is not the time, this is not the place, uh, to make this decision based
on the budget issues. Even if you don't like public housing, we cannot go there and
should not go there.
Throgmorton/ So we're not going to reduce the total number, are we?
Payne/ Well, I have a question on that, just because of a prior memo I remember reading about
the stan ... the sustainability of the program, I mean, you're talking tonight like we have to
81 units to be sustainable (both talking)
Boothroy/ Should have more actually.
Payne/ ...but I thought we had a memo a while back that said we could go as low as 70 and the
program would be sustainable.
Boothroy/ Prior to sequestration cuts. Prior to 30% reduction in our administrative fees. That
memo came out before Congress did what they did.
Payne/ Okay. I (both talking)
Boothroy/ ...and that was before, you know, yeah and luckily we had some public housing
surplus that we could backfill. But ... it is having an impact on our budget, and it ... and
there, and we're going to have to have more conversation about that. (several talking
away from mics)
Mims/ No, I would agree that we need to table this in terms of looking at any reduction,
regardless of people's thoughts on public housing itself, just from a fin ... financial impact
on the department, uh, City department. Doesn't make sense to do anything like that
right now.
Champion/ Well I'm not interested in decreasing it at this point. I am interested... I'm still
interested in dispersement, and I don't know how you go about doing that. I mean, that's
my main concern and has been for a long time.
Mims/ Doug, would this million dollars that you were talking about, what are the ... what are the,
uh, acceptable uses of that money?
Boothroy/ Uh, tenant -to- ownership. Building new units, uh, for ownership, which ... that's how
we've used it. We've built a number of new units over the time. The way the agreement
write, or reads is that the money gets reinvested into the ... so what we sell we reinvest it
into the, uh, program.
Mims/ So you couldn't... so if I'm hearing you right, then you could not take that ... use that
million dollars to buy additional units and simply rent them. You would have to buy
them, rehab them, and sell them? Is that correct?
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Boothroy/ That's correct.
Mims/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ But if we sell (both talking)
Boothroy/ We do have some public housing dollars that we can use, uh ... uh, in reserve, that we
can use to buy units, rehab them, and rent them.
Mims/ Okay.
Boothroy/ And ... uh, but we cannot use, I mean, there's essentially two pots of money.
Mims/ Uh huh. Okay, that's what I was trying (both talking)
Boothroy/ Believe it or not, you know, the regulations are ... more than enough! (laughter)
Throgmorton/ But if we sell some units of the ... of the stock of 81, that we own right now ... uh,
we will still be able to build or rehab units that would be made available for renters.
Boothroy/ Well my pro ... our proposal is that you build or rehab first before you sell.
Throgmorton/ But for renters. The new ... the new...
Boothroy/ They would be public housing units; therefore, they would be renters.
Throgmorton/ Right, yeah. Okay.
Hayek/ Well it looks like the answer to number one is no.
Boothroy/ Uh, let me see (laughter) Does no mean no reduction? (several talking) Okay!
Hayek/ ...was no reduction, but uh, I don't sense... clarity on ... on the second part, which is
whether we move forward with ... with dispersion in the way described in the staff memo,
and maybe we ... revisit that.
Mims/ Yeah, I'm not ready to make a decision on that at this point. I'd like to have ... see if we
can get more discussion going and more buy -in on some kind of a regional, um, approach
dealing ... with this, cause I think as Matt said, it very much is regional as we've looked at
all the School District issues in the past year and a half, two years, um, this needs to be
looked at in a much broader perspective than just dispersing within Iowa City. And so,
before we start down that path, I'd like to ... see if we can get some of our colleagues
around the community (both talking) County on board.
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Dickens/ ...number one issue; I met with ICAD yesterday morning and he says trying to bring
these new companies in and ... and just finding affordable housing for people that are
already here, and trying to bring more people in is just ... that's just stopping so many
things from coming here so ... it's ... it's a two -prong — we want to bring more jobs here,
but if the people don't have a place to live that's affordable, it...it just really stops ... stops
a lot of people in their tracks.
Throgmorton/ Doug, I know that roughly 40, or 70% of the housing voucher units are located in
Iowa City and the other 30% is out in other parts (both talking)
Boothroy/ Uh, some percentage. I'm not sure exactly (both talking) That's probably close.
Throgmorton/ The public housing units, the 81, are they all in Iowa City?
Boothroy/ And ... uh, we would have to get HUD approval to go beyond the jurisdiction of Iowa
City. Right now, uh, we're only approved for the Iowa City, uh, area. Um, when I built
them in 93, uh, that was explored briefly with HUD, and at that time, uh ... uh, I don't...
whether it was because of adjoining jurisdictions or because of HUD, we weren't allowed
to go beyond our cor ... our corporate boundaries. With the expansion of public housing.
Dobyns/ Jim, what was that, the percentage of low income housing in Iowa City or a particular
kind of.. .
Throgmorton/ No, I ... I was referring to housing voucher units.
Dobyns/ Housing voucher.
Throgmorton/ Uh, I think there're roughly 12, 150 units, and my understanding is roughly 70,
seven -zero percent of them are located in Iowa City. The others are in the surrounding
communities.
Boothroy/ Mostly Coralville and North Liberty, with very few in Washington or Iowa County.
Hayek/ Okay. So ... no on one and no decision on two. Is that a fair...
Boothroy/ Is that where we are?
Throgmorton/ Can you live with that? (laughs)
Boothroy/ (several talking) ...I think that ... I think that, you know, I guess (several talking) to
clarify this (several talking) if we ... if we have an opportunity for some kind of public/
private partnership that, uh, to do something, uh, I would like to be able to bring that back
to you for consideration, even if you... even if you say no. Okay?
Payne/ Absolutely! (several talking)
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Boothroy/ Okay. Thank you.
Hayek/ So let's move to the next item, related item. Continue discussion on regional affording
housing strategies. That's IP4 of the October 10th packet.
Continued Discussion on Regional Housing Strategies (IP4):
Long/ I use this chart a lot so ... (laughter)
Payne/ Is it laminated? (laughter)
Long/ Yes! I had to have it back! (laughter) Well, as you know ... are you ready?
Hayek/ Yeah! Please.
Long/ Affordable housing has been discussed quite a bit at the joint government's meeting and at
the MPO meeting over the past few months, and most recently at your August 20th
Council work session where we asked to provide some options for regional approach, and
some background. As you know, Iowa City's an entitlement community, which means
we receive HUD Community Development Block Grant and Home Investment
Partnership Funds directly from HUD, something that the, uh, surrounding communities
do not qualify for, and about 50% of those funds must go to affordable housing; however,
these funds as ... as they're entitlement funds can only be used in Iowa City. So back in
2007, the City hired a consulting firm, Mullen Lonegran, and conducted a regional
housing market analysis. The study found, as expected, with a very large need for
affordable housing, which still exists today. And then 2008, 2009, then JCCOG, um,
partnered with the Housing Trust Fund of Johnson County and conducted a, uh, and also
representatives from each of the surrounding communities, the contiguous communities,
to develop recommendations which were then forwarded on to the Board of MPO. I'll
stop ... I'll just get rid of JCCOG (laughter) And ... that just kind of um ... there were some
recommendations that just kind of, uh ... went away (laughs) haven't been dealt with
since, essentially. And it appears there is a majority, and heard it again this evening, um,
from a few people that, uh, you do want to look at a regional approach and tonight I guess
I'd like to talk about that and try to reach a consensus on what strategy would be that we
could bring to the ... the joint governments or the MPO for their upcoming board
meetings. And I outlined ... two items in the memo (mumbled) I could go over those if
you'd like, or if you just want ... we can start talking about it, and also John Yapp from
the MPO and Tracy Ockenbock from the Housing Trust Fund is here to answer questions,
as well. So do you want me to...
Hayek/ Why don't you go through it real quickly and...
Long/ Okay!
Hayek/ Spark some conversation I bet.
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Long/ Sure! Um ... why don't I ... I can go back to the Mullen Lonegran study and go over some
of the recommendations that they made. One was to change the public perception of
affordable housing, to put a face on affordable housing and I note there have been some
groups since then that have worked on addressing that issue.
Throgmorton/ Steve, can we stop there for just a second?
Long/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ When you and the consultant use the word `affordable housing,' what specifically
do you mean?
Long/ That's a good question. That is a, uh, moving target. Uh, HUD defines affordable
housing as no one ... no one should pay more than 30% of their income for housing. Well
that ... can be someone making a million dollars or someone making a ... uh, 80% of
median income, which is the number that we tend to use most often, which is ... for a
household of three, 80% of median income is $54,950.
Throgmorton/ Right, so ... (both talking)
Long/ ...for ownership. For rental we tend to use 60% of median income, which is $41,220,
which comes to...
Dobyns/ So 30% of those.
Long/ Excuse me?
Dobyns/ I'm sorry, 30% of that should be what the cost of housing. So it's 30% of those
numbers.
Long/ That's correct.
Dobyns/ Okay. (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ What I was trying to get (several talking)
Payne/ ... $12,000 a year for somebody making $42,000. So $1,000 a month for somebody
making $42,000 a year, a family of three.
Long/ Well that's part of the ... analysis. The other part is when you use federal money you have
to keep the rents at what's called the `fair market rent' or the FMR, and ... we have
numbers for those too. For instance, a two - bedroom unit should be less than $853 a
month. Then you have to subtract out if they pay utilities. (mumbled) two - bedroom
probably is around ... I think the allowance is around $100 a month. So it can be no more
than $753 a month. Maximum.
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Throgmorton/ So you ... your response actually (both talking)
Payne/ ...$1,000.
Throgmorton/ ... hel ... helps me (coughing, difficult to hear speaker) invites me to seek more
clarification. When I think about affordable housing, I think housing that individuals can
afford to live in. Maybe 30% is the rule of thumb estimate but it doesn't necessarily have
anything to do with federal programs. It's about housing people can afford to live in.
Right? So I ... I just want to be clear about that so that ... so that we can know that we're...
we may be talking about just market rate stuff, bought on (coughing, unable to hear
speaker) market, etc., and we could also be talking about federally... federal programs
like ... like the housing voucher stuff and so on, okay? Right ... am I right about that?
Long/ Affordable housing is ... has many faces and it's multifaceted, and federal funds are just
one particular part of that. That's correct. There are incentives that we could provide as
a city to a developer and have our own guidelines. So...
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Long/ Do you want me to just go through a few (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ Yeah, I mean I think we know what we ... I think we're probably on the same page, that
we want more buy -in, we want more collaboration on a regional level between the local
governments on this very important issue. The question is how do we get there, and...
Dobyns/ We realize definition is slippery! Keep going! (laughter)
Long/ Um, increasing amount of land zoned for multi - family housing throughout the metro area.
Uh, adopt a mandatory inclusionary zoning ordinance, which has been talked about off
and on for many years. Um, identify potential redevelopment areas in each community,
and using... neighborhood revit ... revitalization strategy areas, or TIF, to fund the
redevelopment. Uh, preserve existing affordable rental unit, or housing units. Uh,
working with both nonprofits and local communities and governments, things like the
housing rehab programs, providing assistance to maintain what we have. Preserve
existing manufacturing home communities. Encourage the development of new low -
income housing tax credits. And then finally, treat nonprofit organizations that specialize
in affordable housing as a special class of developer, like streamlining the permitting
process and waiving fees for development. That was (both talking)
Hayek/ ...2009 report, right. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ That was a 2007 report.
Long/ ...2007.
Hayek/ Yeah. How time flies! (laughter)
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Long/ Yes!
Hayek/ So ... what we're here to talk about, what we can do through MPO?
Long/ Suggest to the MPO, uh, recommendations from Iowa City's perspective. And I was
suggesting that we ... one way is to work with the MPO and the Housing Trust Fund of
Johnson County because they are well established. They've allocated I think, uh, close to
$3 million in the past six years, and they have representatives from each community on
their board already and the communities contribute somewhat to them right now, a small
amount, but that could be increased.
Throgmorton/ So I ... I think the idea working through the Housing Trust Fund has promise, and
it ... it's a good suggestion and we should ... we should explore it. I see Tracy's in the
room. She's... probably could talk about that but ... I ... I want to bring up maybe a couple
points. One is, I don't ... my sense is the memo somehow misses a key thing, and it's
about the spatial distribution of low- to moderate - income households. And the spatial
distribution mattes because this whole conversation, at least recently, was stimulated by
FRL rates at elementary schools. And about our desire to help the School District
implement its diversity policy and reduce the differences in FR ... FRI, rates. So, if we're
going to do that, we need good, hard facts about the spatial distribution about low- to
moderate - income households in the county. We have to have that, and ... and I think we
also need it by school district, I mean elementary school district, and by municipality, I
mean, so ... so I would strongly encourage us to kind of get those ... pu ... know that we
need to get those facts if we're really going to be ... addressing, uh, productively the
challenge that we saw we faced back in the spring.
Payne/ So is that something that can be put on a map so you can see things and then see the
school district boundaries and see the city boundaries for each of the towns so you can
kind of visualize it, rather than gra... you know, a graph or an XL spreadsheet. I mean,
it's easier to see when you can see it on a map. In my mind (several talking) interpret it
better.
Mims/ Yeah.
Long/ We did something similar with the affordable housing location model. And I talked to the
person who put that together, Chris, this afternoon and that is something that, um, could
be done for the entire area, with the cooperation of, you know, the County and the
schools, uh, so if that's something we could suggest to the MPO.
Mims/ Uh huh.
Long/ If they could put that together.
Dobyns/ So ... if we do a map like that, and how we define where we ... cause we put little dots on
the map? (several responding) Uh, how we define what becomes a dot and what doesn't,
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um, for instance, let's say North Liberty's median income is less than Iowa City's. I
don't even know if it is. But, um, a house that's at 80% of the median income would be,
well it'd be different in North Liberty than it would be in Iowa City. I mean, how ... my
concern is that because the demographics in income medians of different cities are
different.
Long/ These ... these numbers are actually for the ... the county. Sothis ... we would use, if you
chose to use something that HUD uses (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...city - specific? I mean ... well, I...
Payne/ So the $64,000 that you talked about earlier, or $54,000 or whatever it was, is for the
whole county, not just for Iowa City. (both talking)
Long/ That's correct, yes.
Dobyns/ But (mumbled) I mean, is North Liberty's median income less than Iowa City's?
Champion/ I bet it's not a lot less. (several talking) I bet it's not a lot less.
Long/ I only know it in a metropolitan area, so I don't know.
Dobyns/ I'm just wondering if they would just have more houses by virtue of their property, uh,
values are lower.
Champion/ Right!
Dobyns/ Um, you know, that's the concern that I've got is that we're not comparing apples to
apples here. Um ... and that, um, there's some sort of a, uh, adjustment would need to be
made based on the community, um...
Payne/ But he's saying what they use for numbers are countywide, not citywide. So they're
already using countywide numbers. 80% of median income is the same in Iowa City as it
is in North Liberty (both talking)
Dobyns/ I know we don't have a whole lot of affordable housing here in Iowa City. My sense is
they have a lot of affordable housing in like North Liberty, or do they? I mean I guess
we'll see if I look at that diagram, urn ... I'm concerned about how it will show, because if
we're going to tie this to MPOJC, which is I ... as I recall, the decisions made in MPOJC
on, uh, roads is major arterials, major roads, and, I mean, if that's tied to this, um ... I
think we just need to be a little bit careful that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot here.
In that we take a look at this data and depends on how it's defined. I mean, if we have a
question about how it's defined, I bet you other communities are going to get defensive,
especially one in particular, about how it's defined.
Mims/ Well I think the question is what kind of data do we want on that map.
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Dobyns/ Yeah, that's what I'm trying to...
Mims/ If... if one of the things like Jim is saying, you know, part of the reason this came up was
because the School District issues and trying to scatter housing to help with the FRL
numbers and get people distributed, then it would seem to me that we need the FRL
information, which they can give by certain census blocks or whatever, I mean, it has to
be done in a way that you can't identify people, etc., but they can do that. Um ... I would
think the next thing that we want is some kind of color- coding in terms of housing prices.
I mean, so you can get a sense of the value of the houses, you know, if you have your,
you know...
Payne / And there's two, right, there's rental and purchase, so there's two different prices there.
Mims/ Well I, I mean, I don't know that what we're going to get is other than assessed values.
Isn't that probably what would be available (both talking)
Long/ ...we have assessed and we have purchase prices.
Mims/ Okay.
Long/ That's easily accessible.
Dickens/ You could probably just go average per city too to get a...
Hayek/ (mumbled) aren't we kind of drilling into the details that can be (several talking) I mean,
it seems to me, we want to, and (mumbled) got this look on his face like I've been down
this road a thousand times (laughter) cause you he. We've had these conversations and...
and this is an area city government is replete with acronyms and definitions and data
and ... and uh, it's almost as bad as the flood mitigation stuff. Um, but we ... but you know
I think our goal here is to try to take this issue, uh, with more success to a regional level,
and I think there are two intriguing ideas here — one is to go through the MPO and one is
to use the Housing Trust Fund — both exist now, both have ... uh, representation from the
various constituent organizations, um...
Payne/ Can it be something more ... it's a collaboration between the two? I mean, I don't...
Hayek/ Potentially. I don't ... I don't know, I mean, you know I see things I think the land use, I
think the zoning... basically a non - starter, I mean, it's largely a local, a function of local
government, or maybe exclusively a ft inc function of local government to begin with,
and that's probably one of the ones you'd hit the most resistance with fastest, but as we
talked about at that joint meeting, there may be ways to go at the, I hate the ... I hate this
term but the lower hanging fruit first, um...
Dickens/ Get something started.
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Hayek/ Get something started.
Dobyns/ When's the MPOJC meeting? Is that November... when is that, John? Will we have
another, uh, work session between now and then, just so we can ... look at (both talking)
Yapp/ The next, uh, MPO board meeting is November 20th
Dobyns/ Okay, so we have a ... at least one work session before then. Not that we have to talk a
lot ... it'd be nice to like look at something, cause I think we're ... I think (mumbled)
hypothesis here that FRL is associated with, uh, geographically with affordable housing,
um, opportunities.
Throgmorton/ With ... with the distribution of low to moderate - income households.
Dobyns/ Yeah, okay.
Throgmorton/ Not with regard to the distribution of housing vouchers, necessarily. That's a
distinction I'm really trying to get across here (several talking)
Champion/ The other ... the other thing that'd be I think kind of interesting to find out, which'd
be easy to find out, is we talk about an incredible lack of affordable housing for sale. I
think we'd all be amazed how many houses are on the market for under $100,000, or
under $120,000. And I think the problem is people can't get together the downpayment
to buy those houses that are in that income bracket. So rental housing, I think, would be
good to know what is actually needed the most, because the last time we talked about this
heavily, there was over 100 houses on the market in Iowa City for under $100,000. But
downpayments then come the problem. And not the price of the house. So I'd like to
know if we need more affordable rental property, and that's an easy thing just to call the
Board of Realtors and ask them how many houses there are on the market for under
$100,000, or whatever that median income would be.
Long/ Affordable rental is by far the largest need.
Champion/ Right!
Long/ It's fi ... I mean, this study which needs to be updated, and that would be something I
would recommend that this group do, um, back in 2007, 2008 there was a deficit of 544
rental units and um...
Payne/ Affordable rental units!
Champion/ Affordable rental!
Long/ Affordable, yes! (laughter)
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Dobyns/ So to put together what you think we need, do you need more information from Council
or less information? (laughter) Okay! (laughter and several talking) Thank you! The
hesitation answered...
Long/ I think we would like ... to know whether you'd like to pursue to have the MPO and
Housing Trust Fund work together. (several responding) They could then answer a lot of
these questions on a regional basis. I think that's the number one...
Hayek/ Do you see a reason why we shouldn't approach it that way?
Long/ No I think it's ... I think it's the right way to go, personally.
Dobyns/ The other cities are supposed to report at that same meeting. I'm not sure even how
they're going to report, I mean, everybody's going to bring in different data. Do we want
to at least communicate without, um ... brethren around the country and ... county, and
(both talking)
Dickens/ Send something ahead of time to see what they... or to at least (both talking) see if
they're going to do anything.
Hayek/ Dr. Yapp? (laughter)
Yapp/ I think it would be an appropriate item for your, uh, next joint governments meeting,
which will occur before the MPO (several talking) ...put a bug in everybody's ear.
Throgmorton/ Is that the one on the 28th? (several responding)
Yapp/ Oh! It is not before the next MPO meeting.
Karr/ October 28tH
Yapp/ Oh, October (several talking)
Dobyns/ We will have to have some bug to show them.
Payne/ Yes!
Dobyns/ Okay. All right.
Throgmorton/ I can see Steve's writing, so I'll take a chance opportunity to ... oh, you're back!
(laughs)
Hayek/ Are we ... are we jumping the gun though, I mean, are we going to have something
fleshed out that can go to the joint meeting, when we haven't even heard ... I don't know.
Long/ ...Tracy Ockenbock, as well. Um...
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Hayek/ Yeah.
Long/ ...and impact (mumbled) organization. I ... if we're just making a recommendation that we
pursue this on a regional basis, using the House Trust Fund and MPO, I'm...
Hayek/ Okay. If you're comfortable...
Dilkes/ Well, as I understood the conversation at the October 28th joint meeting, it was simply a
...a procedural thing. Are we all going to report out at the next MPO meeting and ... but
not to make that report on what your ideas are (several responding) but just to get
everybody on the same page (both talking)
Dobyns/ ... give `em a sense of the data.
Dilkes/ ...in terms of we're going to have that discussion at the MPO. That's how I heard it.
Not that you had to have a full- fledged proposal due (both talking)
Dobyns/ No, what I was thinking is that, um, I assume you can look at this data in myriad ways.
Um... so we're not comparing apples and oranges at that MPOJC meeting, do we even
want at least, you know, schematically what type of...how we're going to look at the
data, so the other municipalities can decide if they want to look at it the same way we do.
So we can compare like with like.
Mims/ I think at that first meeting (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...not going to report anything, we're just telling them how we're going to look at the
data, not that ... we're not going to have any data to reveal.
Dilkes/ But what I hear from Steve is that you're not talking about a presentation of data. You're
talking about a presentation of these ideas and then the development of that data would
occur after there's a regional agreement as to what...
Dobyns/ Right.
Dilkes/ ...those ideas...what ideas you're going to pursue. So there's no ... I don't see any data
being presented. (both talking)
Dobyns/ So there's no data, there's just what kind of data we're ... going to look at, how we're
going to look at it.
Long/ (mumbled) suggestions? Is that what...
Payne/ Yeah, suggestions so that ... are we looking at FRL? Are we looking at income? I mean,
it's ... are we looking at Section 8 vouchers? I mean ... or all of them? You know, how are
we looking at it so Coralville isn't doing it different than we are than North Liberty.
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Long/ Right.
Mims/ In my recollection of the last MPO meeting when we talked about this, it was more of a
case of asking everybody to bring to that next meeting kind of a summary of what it is
they are doing right now. So it wasn't asking people necessarily to create and bring a
bunch of (both talking)
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Mims/ ...it was more, get everybody else up to speed on what you're doing right now. And then
(both talking)
Dobyns/ ...and this might be fine, but they'll reveal that data in the way they chose to reveal it,
which may be totally, um, incongruent with the way we're doing it.
Mims/ Well, and that's fine, but at least, to me I think it's a first step of getting everybody to
share some information and then I think it gives all of us that opportunity to figure out,
okay, you know, how do we take this next step, in terms of okay, we need to reorganize
the data. If we're going to send staff from these different municipalities and from the
MPOJC to try to work on this stuff, they're probably some of the best ones to figure out
how to pull it together in a way that makes some sense, uh, probably a whole lot better
than we are. And probably to give us some guidance in terms of (both talking)
Dobyns/ Yeah. I don't (both talking)
Mims/ ...what data makes sense for us to be looking at.
Dobyns/ You know, it sounds like I'm pushing for us all to report in the same way, but I'm not.
I'm just ... I ... I think they'll ask the question, urn ... but I don't care as long as (mumbled)
out reporting and it's going to be non - standardized reporting methods...
Mims / Right.
Dobyns/ ...as long as we can all live with that, that's ... fine.
Mims/ Sounds like a researcher.
Throgmorton/ Wouldn't we want to go in to the next, um ... MPO meeting and have Matt say,
or ... you're not a member though, are you, Matt?
Hayek/ Thank goodness! (laughter)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, so (laughter and several talking) have Susan I guess say (several talking) we
discussed that .... this thoroughly, uh, in a work session. We talked about some
possibilities having to do with the Housing Trust Fund, having to do with the scoring
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criteria — we haven't gotten to that yet, having to do with the scoring criteria for
transportation projects and we will come back to you at our ... at the following meeting
with a more formal proposal about what specifically we, uh, will be recommending. But
we just want to let you know right now that this is where we're ... our thinking's at.
Mims/ I think we need to be careful about how much we say at the next meeting. I mean, I think
at this point we're trying to get buy -in from the other municipalities in the county, etc.,
and I think while there's a certain amount of pushing and encouraging we want to do, um,
I think we've got to be careful in terms of how we do that, that we don't just...
immediately turn people off and ... (several talking) us coming back (both talking)
Dobyns/ ... communication between city staffs.
Mims/ Yeah. We've (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...and not even bring it up. I mean, it's...
Hayek/ Yeah, it can be handled at that level.
Dobyns/ Yeah, and (mumbled) and that might be a, you know (both talking)
Mims/ Well no the MPO meeting will be afterwards but...
Dobyns/ No, I'm talking about the other (both talking) It might be better just to leave it out
entirely.
Hayek/ Yeah, I'm not s .... sure we want to take it up at the joint meeting. Um ... I don't know.
My instincts tell me that's... that's a little early.
Champion/ Might be kind of fun! (laughs)
Dobyns/ Yeah (several talking and laughing)
Mims/ Well I mean I think if anything it ... just as a reminder that ... you know, that we will be
reporting, you know, we'll be bringing our information...
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Mims/ ...you know, to the next MPO meeting.
Dobyns/ I think what Jim articulated (both talking)
Mims/ ... forward to seeing theirs.
Dobyns/ I think what Jim articulated is appropriate, perhaps in a different venue. Between city
staffs. Um ... so it doesn't, cause it's just a different setting.
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Hayek/ Clear as mud? (laughter)
Champion/ I think we got a lot of points made here.
Hayek/ I have a question. Um, and ... and this came up at, uh, maybe it was the last joint
meeting, this notion that ... we could ... you know, would it be possible to form some
collective organization, you know, sort of... an umbrella to the entitlement city or a multi -
jurisdictional entitlement organization, something to that affect, to qualify for federal
funds. I think the answer is no, but ... I don't know, and Coralville certainly said, well, oh
no, we ... we can't go in that direction cause we would actually lose money and it'd be a
net negative and ... I don't know the full information on that.
Long/ A couple things, to qualify for a CDBG countywide, um, entitlement, you have to have a
population of 200,000. Then you have to take away the entitlement city. So we have a
ways to go there. The Home Consortium is the contiguous cities in Johnson County. We
looked into that last time, uh, in the 2009 study and everybody had to agree, and at that
time I believe one community... did not ... you already mentioned the community
(laughter) did not want to participate. Um, there would be a slight reduction. We looked
into the dollars, a slight reduction in the overall dollars, uh, but they could be used in all
those contiguous communities for home funds.
Hayek/ Wait, a reduction from the Iowa City Home...
Long/ Yes.
Hayek/ ... funding stream?
Long/ Because it ... right now those, there's a formula that's used for just Iowa City that's based
on poverty and age of housing stock, and there's list of four or five, and we spread that
out among the communities, um, for one the age of housing stock is newer in some of the
communities and it impacts the formula.
Mims/ Uh huh.
Long/ But it's a pretty slight decrease.
Hayek/ It ... it may still be worth looking at, and if we can at least on the Home side...
Long/ Uh huh.
Hayek/ ...if we can get continuous... contiguous buy -in, do something there. Then you're boot-
strapping these existing... organizations or you're creating a new one that ... I ... so (both
talking)
Long/ The other alternative is that they would apply for state funds.
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Hayek/ Yeah.
Long/ In this regional organization, whether it's MPO or Housing Trust Fund, could work with
those communities for the application process.
Dobyns/ But in general, isn't it okay if Iowa City loses some federal funding for low- income
housing if other communities around us then gained something? I mean, isn't that the
idea?
Hayek/ I would think so.
Dobyns/ Okay. I ... I don't understand why that's a problem. I...
Hayek/ It may not be. I think that was...
Dobyns/ Okay. All right.
Hayek/ ...something they pointed out, but I'd appreciate more information on that, I think, cause
that ... that has some promise, and if we can get... again, if... if North Liberty indicated,
you know, some willingness to ... to do this, and if the County ... I don't know if the
County is a contiguous, if they're part of it at all.
Long/ I don't believe so, no.
Hayek/ Okay. Well we have to think about what...
Long/ But they could apply for... other funds.
Hayek/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ Uh ... so ... I'd like to introduce a different topic that's clearly related. Uh, I ... I
want to challenge a background assumption. Uh, of...of our conversation. Uh, the
background assumption, tell me if I'm wrong cause I .... maybe I'm mishearing, is ... is
that there's really not much Iowa City can do to increase the supply of housing that
people can afford... unless our nearby communities also do something. All right? I ... if
that, if I'm hearing correctly, I think that's a mistake. We could be a lot more creative
about what we would ... could do to increase the supply of housing that people can afford
in Iowa City, regardless of what neigh... neighboring cities do. Uh, so I ... in, you know, I
...I don't want to kind of blather on about that. I just think that we ... we should question
that background assumption.
Mims/ I don't know that's an accurate assumption.
Payne/ Yeah, I would ... I would like to ... yeah, I agree with you, I don't know that that's an
accurate assumption.
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Champion/ You don't agree with him — you don't think it's an accurate assumption.
Payne/ Yeah, I ... I, yeah, I don't know why you think we assume that. (laughs) I guess is where
I ... what I'm saying.
Throgmorton/ So I ... well ... as I read the memo, I'll take responsibility for this. As I read the
memo, the attention was basically entirely at the regional scale and I get it, I mean, I
pushed for that too. (laughs) I think we do need to be thinking at a regional scale, but it
... it becomes too easy then to kind of forget about what we can do in the City, regardless
of what happens in Coralville, regardless of what happens in North Liberty. That ... that's
all ... all I'm trying to say.
Mims/ I guess my thought on it at this point is that when we have a school district that crosses
many boundaries and with the issues they have in getting children of different socio-
economic situations spread out, that ... it behooves us to look at this from a more regional
basis, rather than taking all the responsibility to generate more affordable housing in Iowa
City and then potentially bring more service issues to Iowa City in terms of, uh, social
services, etc., that are needed. I mean, I think ... I think we need to try to get the other
municipalities to ... to step up to the plate with us on this and do it, um, in that regard.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Champion/ Because they're also responsible for a lot of low- paying jobs.
Throgmorton/ Yes.
Hayek/ I think if you looked, I mean, I think if you compare what Iowa City does (several
talking) what Iowa City does in the area of human and social services, um, to our
neighbors, um, and adjustment for population and ... and whatever else you need to adjust
for, we are ... we are, uh, significantly, uh, more progressive in ... in these areas, and I
think, you know, one of the things that frustrates me is that ... is that we are criticized for
... for not doing enough and some of the criticism comes from people who don't even live
in Iowa City. They live in University Heights. They live out in the county. They live in
Coralville and North Liberty, and ... and that's why, you know, that's one reason why I
think this needs to be something that the local governments collectively take
responsibility for. Um, and ... and I hope with time that... that... constituents in those
communities recognize the value of this kind of approach and ... and we can get some
traction in terms of broadening the conversation.
Dobyns/ I ... I'm going to ask some questions. I should have taken more non - science courses in
college I guess (laughter) but urn ... and so, uh, Professor Throgmorton (several talking
and laughing)
Throgmorton/ It's too late! (laughter)
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Dobyns/ ...it's way too late! (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ You can always audit I suppose! (laughter)
Dobyns/ Exactly! Um... so it seems to me there's disincentives. My understanding is that to put
low- income housing in one community then makes that sort of a community that just has,
you know, a lot of lower income people and the other communities are then nice,
different, you know, expensive, fancy communities, and that, uh, that's (mumbled) and so
perhaps businesses, um, I mean I think that thing can like get worse and persist when
looking, you know, thinking of larger cities and suburbs. So I think there's a, uh, I think
what we're trying to do is create incentives, um... so for people to have affordable
housing. I think the School District in the votes of last winter came up with some
incentives, uh, with their leadership on this into having all the communities at least to
have within the Iowa City School District of, uh, you know, wanting to have low- income
housing, cause of the association of free and reduced lunch. Now I think we're trying to
follow suit by coming up with another incentive, um, to go along with transportation and
arterial roads. So I ... I think, Jim, we're doing that. Um ... we don't have to, um ... be like
the other cities. We can still lead with more low- income housing. We might have to give
them some of our federal largesse for them to do it by, um ... uh, like we talked about, but
I think we can still lead. I think we can still be ahead of the game, um, but I think it
makes it easier if there just continue to be more and more incentives for all the
communities to be able to do it. So I guess I see where ... we'll get what you want. I ... I
think we don't necessarily have to be like the other communities. Um, we can have more
low - income housing, but I think it protects us by having multiple incentives in place, uh,
for them to follow our lead.
Hayek/ We should probably wrap this up in the next several minutes so we can get other things,
but you (several talking) What are you walking away with here, Steve (laughter)
Long/ A headache! (laughter and several responding) So ... we're going to meet on the, well at
the November 20th MPO board, make a recommendation that we work with the ... that the
MPO works with the Housing Trust Fund to develop a regional strategy, um, as yet to be
determined what that is, um. We didn't really talk yet about the transportation project
scoring, but that could also be a recommendation, um, I don't know if that's at this level
or if that's the next meeting, you know, as a group ... if there is a group formed that's
regional. I think at that level I think we're just pretty much just make a recommendation
that we pursue in a regional basis using possibly the Trust Fund and the MPO as the lead
agency or organization.
Mims/ And be prepared at that meeting to also just to report kind of what we're already doing...
Long/ Yes.
Mims/ ...on the affordable housing.
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Payne / And will you ... do you want us to say yes to making a recommendation to up ... updating
that (noise on mic) report from 2009?
Mims/ I'd be interested to have that come under the MPO.
Payne/ Yeah, that's what ... at that meeting, to say...
Long/ ...the Housing Market Analysis?
Payne/ Uh huh.
Long/ Um ... yes! (laughs) It does cost, I mean there is a cost to it.
Payne/ (mumbled) ...I mean, a cost is $20 or $20,000 or...
Long/ Uh, probably $40,000 to $50,000...
Champion/ Yeah, that's a lot.
Long/ ...I'm guessing. Last time we did the study we asked each community to pitch in and we
ended up footing the entire bill.
Champion/ The other thing about that study (several talking)
Mims/ That's why I suggested the MPO do it.
Champion/ Well...
Hayek/ ...very good idea (several talking)
Champion/ ... it's probably not that outdated. We haven't met the goals that are in there (several
talking) so if anything it's going to be worse.
Long/ We have new census information, which would impact the study. So it may ... it may not
be as expensive to update it as it was to create the first one.
Joint Meeting Agenda Items:
Hayek/ Okay. All right. Thank you, Steve and John. Okay. Speaking of joint meeting, joint
agenda i...items.
Karr/ We're hosting the ... the meeting, and I asked if there was any ... I asked the other
communities for agenda items. I've not received any, but this is our last work session
prior to that. So if there was any agenda items... (several talking away from mic)
Hayek/ Well ... would it be good to get a School District facilities update?
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Mims/ That's what I was just thinking, is it too early, I mean...
Karr/ We could certainly put it on.
Hayek/ But ... but I think we, you know, sometimes we do this and then like somebody shows up
and says, well, you put this on. We don't know what you want from us. What do you...
be happy to answer your questions. I think if we want an update we should probably
communicate here's what (several talking)
Karr/ We changed the agenda format the last time, and that the ... what we do is the entity in the
parentheses should plan on providing information at the agenda item. It's no longer that
the entity that who puts it on.
Hayek/ Okay.
Mims/ Okay.
Hayek/ If that's clear to...
Mims/ So if we put it on and put Iowa City Community School District in parentheses, they'll
know that they're expected to give us (both talking)
Karr/ That's supposedly what happen (several talking) Yes, and we would commun ... (several
talking)
Payne/ Do they have a timeline?
Dobyns/ ...what they're planning on building, where they're planning on building, even though
most of us know, and when, which would be a timeline.
Mims/ Yeah, and some of it...at this point with them just having had the ... their election in
September may be more of what their process is at this point.
Dobyns/ Right. Their post - election or pre - election are very different realities (laughter)
Markus/ I think you want to ask about dollars too.
Mims/ Okay.
Markus/ Cost.
Dobyns / And how.
Markus/ (mumbled) ...get into a phasing issue on ... on this whole, uh, program for expenses...
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Mims / Right.
Markus/ ... so you might want to (mumbled)
Hayek/ I mean, I think we want to...
Markus/ I'll re ... I'll reach out to the Superintendent and make sure he understands that we're
asking that they're doing this. (several responding)
Dickens/ Will that include infrastructure? (mumbled)
Hayek/ So we've got that. Do we ... is there anything staff wants us to present, since we're
hosting this happy hour? (several talking and laughing)
Markus/ No, I think ... I think Schools is an interesting issue right now.
Mims/ Yeah, I do too.
Champion/ For everybody!
Throgmorton/ Yeah, for sure.
Information Packets:
Hayek/ Okay. Anything else on that? Okay. Uh, info packets. Uh, October 3rd
Mims/ Nothing.
Hayek/ October... l Otn
Throgmorton/ IP8, the memo from Eleanor about the Supreme Court's decision. Thank you,
Eleanor, for giving us that memo.
Hayek/ That was really good.
Throgmorton/ Could also thank Geoff, I think uh it's under IP9, thank him for that memo about
the 21 (several talking)
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ Incidentally on that particular point, I ... I can report that I was walking along the
Anen Cleary walkway yesterday, uh, at about 20 after, so it's right when hundreds and
hundreds, thousands of students are milling around, going from class to class (several
talking off mic) and I saw a substantial number of people, students, handing out, um,
information pamphlets about voting, and the ... the pamphlets indicated only one topic.
The one topic was, you know, yes or no on ... on this particular referendum. So I just...
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thought you'd like to know that. I think it's regrettable that they weren't also informed
that this is City Council election (laughter) that there are candidates and it matters who
gets elected.
Mims/ They don't care.
Throgmorton/ I ... I know. I just...
Mims/ I agree! I agree!
Bramel/ As much as that's happening, I mean, we've got some stuff, some outreach stuff from
UISG that we're trying to inform students more about the election aspect of it so (several
talking)
Mims/ That's a tough one!
Champion/ It is a tough one! You know, it is tough.
Mims/ It's tough to get our city residents out to vote.
Champion/ Oh! It's horrible!
Council Time:
Hayek/ Okay! Council time!
Champion/ But weren't there, um...
Karr/ There were, um, KXIC radio show and the proposed meeting schedule too. Um, Item 6
and 7 of the 10 /10 packet.
Hayek/ Okay (several talking)
Dickens/ October 30tH
Champion/ (mumbled) (several talking)
Karr/ October 30th Dickens. (several talking)
Payne/ October 30th's taken? (several talking and laughing)
Karr/ October 30th is Dickens.
Payne/ Oh, is taken by you (both talking)
Champion/ What else is open?
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Karr/ October 23rd, November 6th, November 13tH
Champion/ I won't be here the 23rd
Dobyns/ Give Connie all of the December slots.
Mims/ I'll take the 23rd. I've got (both talking)
Karr/ 23rd? You've got the 16th as well, so back -to -back?
Champion/ (mumbled) ...this is my last one! (several talking and laughing)
Dickens/ I did two weeks in a row when I joined you the one (several talking)
Hayek/ I'll take the 2nd date in November.
Karr/ The 13 th? .
Hayek/ Yeah, please.
Karr/ Okay. So I have, um, November 6th open.
Champion/ I can do that.
Karr/ Thank you. I'll put a revised schedule in the packet.
Dickens/ Thank you!
Karr/ Was there any discussion or any conflicts with the proposed schedule, January, February,
March?
Mims/ Too far away!
Payne/ Too far away! (laughter)
Mims/ We'll work around it.
Throgmorton/ The ... the party's caucus in on the 14th, January 14th. (several talking) It may
matter to some people — I don't know.
Dobyns/ And Marian, they ... they're all good for me! (laughter)
Karr/ Thank you!
Dobyns/ I checked `em out with my boss! (laughter)
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Hayek/ Okay!
Karr/ Thank you.
Pending Work Session Topics:
Hayek/ Other Council time?
Throgmorton/ Uh, sorry, things have been flying past, uh, too fast for my brain here but ... the
pending work session topics, uh, correct me if I'm wrong cause I make mistakes all the
time. (noises on mic) When we completed our discussion about the, uh, situation on the
ped mall, did we not also indicate that we wanted to have a work session discussion about
that topic? I ... I thought there was some sort of consensus about that at the end of our
formal meeting discussion. You know, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Mims/ I didn't recall that.
Throgmorton/ (several talking) ...you know, just on the street people, homelessness, transience,
uh...
Mims/ My only recollection was I know, I mean, I made a comment in terms of...of looking at
all this as we look at the ped mall design. In terms of having a design that kind of
promotes the kind of congregation and behaviors and stuff that we would like to see, so
we ... maybe we can get rid of some of this legislation -type of stuff to enforce things.
You know, how do we design planters and where do we put benches, and do we put arms
on the benches and those kinds of things so maybe we can do it by design rather than by
putting a bunch of rules and regulations on the books.
Dobyns/ My recollection is (difficult to hear) City staff is collaborating with other appropriate
relevant groups in the community to, um ... uh ... and they're going to bring that to us
probably next year some time. Uh, Geoff, can't remember the name of the group. But
that's going to be very relevant, um, because I mean this is a complex issue with multiple
stakeholders. So I think it's coming back.
Mims/ Well, and there's also a group already working like on the FUSE, investigating the FUSE
program and that sort of stuff.
Dobyns/ ...and that's that group, and then we're going to have some meat to discuss and at that
point my (mumbled) work session once we had something substantive to work with.
Markus/ That's correct.
Mims/ Yeah. So we don't...
Payne/ Is that what you were talking about, Jim, is ... not losing sight of that?
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Throgmorton/ Uh, yes, and I just couldn't remember (several talking)
Dobyns/ No, it's a report. It's a report coming back to us, and then we jump to work session
mode.
Mims/ Yeah. (several talking)
Dilkes/ Well the specific issue that you talked about was bringing... having staff look at the
storage issues and bringing that back to you. Storage of personal property. (several
talking) I mean, that's my recollection. (several talking)
Dickens/ (mumbled) could be included in (several talking) do we want it sooner?
Hayek/ Why don't we get the memo on that, assuming that's what we're going to get and then
figure out what to do.
Mims/ Okay.
Markus/ (several talking) So what you're asking for is information about storage, that locker is,
is that what you're talking about?
Hayek/ Well, I think we want to do (mumbled) but there's confusion on that right now. (several
talking)
Markus / Why don't we (noises on mic) go back and check on that again and see what ... what that
discussion was. (several talking)
Karr/ ...storage, but yeah, I'll look at it.
Markus/ Let's ... let's let it ... let us do that and we'll just come back with it (noises on mic) report
so that you know specifically.
Champion/ And then we also talked about whether our making the whole ped mall non - smoking
was creating part of the problem.
Mims/ Well, and I think... Geoff, what's the timeline on the ped mall design?
Fruin/ Uh we hope to have a master plan to Council in January, February.
Mims/ I mean I think that would be the time. You'll be gone. (laughs) To look at...
Champion/ Gone! Not totally gone! (laughs)
Dickens/ She's going to out -live all of us (laughter)
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Hayek/ We're going to get her on the Airport Board of Adjustment. (laughter)
Markus/ Jail's not done yet! (laughter)
Champion/ ...I'm giving that to Jim! (laughs)
Hayek/ Well, and actually it's funny you mention that because I just wrote down `keep eye on
justice center.' Are we, I mean you know I'm just following what's in the paper in terms
of discussion about splitting it and annexes and this and that. I assume as a staff we're
watching this and if you think we need to...
Dickens/ Didn't you have some meetings with them?
Markus/ Yeah, we were invited over to have that discussion, and um, the Chief spoke about, you
know, our support, the City Council's support for an expanded justice center, which
includes, uh, the courthouse, you know, the judicial portion of it and the jail portion of it,
and ... we got into a bit of a discussion about the potential to, um, do a joint facility.
Um ... you know, I'll be probably share something with you that I don't think is
necessarily been picked up, and I think the ... the voting threshold changes, uh, through a
joint facility proposal, uh, over, uh, what a ... a proposal that, you know, like the justice
center proposal has previously been. So I think that there is, urn ... you know, there's
interest in doing things like that, and the amount of the joint activity varies, um, you
know, from a minimal joint participation all the way up to, for example, a combined
police facility. So yeah, we're watching that very closely. We're ... we're interested in
that discussion and I think as we look at our own facilities, we think that there's a
realistic opportunity to ... to work with Johnson County on that issue.
Dobyns/ But, Tom, is there a certain level of collaboration between the County and Iowa City
that would need to occur to ... drive that need for only a 50% vote?
Markus/ You ... you mean in terms of what would actually be constructed?
Dobyns/ Uh... yes.
Markus/ Yeah, and ... and it's my understanding it can be, um ... you know, from in fact I think
one of the Board of Supervisors mentioned, you know, some sort of joint detective, um,
operation between the two, um, it can probably be even less than that. I had a chance to
talk with the Scott County Administrator, uh, and they have that, uh, system going, uh, in
Scott County. Um ... which I think is ... is that, Davenport, and so they have a fairly
minimal actual relationship, but that's one way to address this issue.
Dobyns/ So if the City went together with the County and developed both a, uh, courthouse and a
jail, um, is that what you're talking about — both or just one or the other?
Markus/ Yeah, it's my understanding it could go either way, that it could be both or it could be a
combined facility and the County could decide to separate that issue.
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Dobyns/ Okay, but in theory the City could go together with the County, put the, um, a
courthouse and anew jail together, and that would require a 50% vote of the county? Or
the (both talking) Okay.
Markus / And ... and I think, um, and Jim Throgmorton was at that same meeting and he spoke to
the ... to the issue, and I think his ... his interests were, uh, I mean, he expressed his views
on that. I think, Jim, to quote you, you spoke as an individual, not representing Council.
Throgmorton/ Right.
Markus/ Um ... I ... I, um ... I did speak I think in ... and on behalf of the Council when the question
was asked of me whether I supported, uh, having this facility located, uh, in the City of
Iowa City and I said yes I do. I think that for lots of reasons, not the least of which is... it
is a job center and I think it spins off other office potential with legal, uh, firms wanting
to locate, uh, in that area and just the general activity. I think it fits, uh, with the, uh,
River Crossings' plan, urn ... obviously it's probably one of the most iconic buildings in
the ... in the entire county so (noises on mic) I'd like to see that ... that synergy stay there.
There was some discussion of potentially moving it out to what I think is described as the
`work farm,' the old work farm, um ... and I think some of the outlying jurisdictions
would like that because it makes it easier for them to get to but ... um, I'd still like to see it
downtown. I think that is the county seat. That's the center of the county seat.
Mims/ Right.
Dilkes/ If we're going to have much more give and take on this issue, we probably want to notice
it on the agenda.
Karr/ Is there any interest to putting this on the joint meeting?
Hayek/ I don't know, um...
Karr/ That's fine.
Hayek/ Let's not.
Karr/ I suspect it will be anyway.
Upcoming Events, Council Invitations:
Hayek/ Okay! We need to break up here. Uh, any upcoming events, Council invites (noises on
mic) Okay! See you in 20 minutes!
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