HomeMy WebLinkAbout2014-03-25 TranscriptionMarch 25, 2014 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Botchway, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne (arrived at 5:15),
Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Fruin, Dilkes, Karr, Fosse, Knoche, Bockenstedt, Boothroy,
Moran, Long, O'Brien, Davidson, Andrew, Yapp, Damian, Ralston, Clow
Others Present: Bramel, McCarthy (UISG)
Agenda Items•
Hayek/ Let's get started! I want to welcome everyone to our work session. Um, Michelle Payne
is in route back from Des Moines. She's hoping to get here by about 5:30, could be a
little later. Uh, she wants us to proceed without her. First item is questions regarding
agenda items.
ITEM 3d(1) RELEASE OF LIEN FOR 1937 KEOKUK STREET PROPERTY -
RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO SIGN AND THE CITY
CLERK TO ATTEST TO THE RELEASE OF LIEN REGARDING A
MORTGAGE FOR THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 1937 KEOKUK STREET,
IOWA CITY, IOWA.
Mims/ I've got a couple on, uh, 3d(1), the release of the lien. This is where there's a ... think this
is one there was a bankruptcy. Are we incurring some costs there then in terms of...not
getting repaid on ... that loan or that ... those CDBG funds?
Markus/ Steve's here.
Throgmorton/ Steve's gonna answer that!
Long/ (mumbled)
Mims/ Uh ... Legaspi Property.
Long/ Yes!
Mims/ Yeah.
Long/ Yes, that ... they did go through a ... they were buying it on contract and it's ... went back to
the original owner, but they are still paying our loan. We did negotiate some ... we're
going to be losing a little bit, but they are still paying us on the loan (both talking)
ITEM 3d(2) SANITARY SEWER DEDICATION - RESOLUTION ACCEPTING
THE DEDICATION OF AND AUTHORIZING THE MAYOR TO ENTER INTO
A SANITARY SEWER EASEMENT AGREEMENT FOR A PORTION OF LOTS
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7, 8, 9 AND 10, BLOCK 7, LYON'S SECOND ADDITION, IOWA CITY,
JOHNSON COUNTY, IOWA.
Mims/ ...still paying on the loan. Okay. Okay, thanks. Appreciate it. And then on 3d(2), this
is, um, a sewer easement. I'm assuming we're making this change because of the two
buildings that are going up. That's on south Dodge Street where I think three houses
were torn down and two buildings are going up. (several talking) ... McGlaughlin ... are
we incurring costs because of that?
Knoche/ No, we are not. The ... the existing sewer actually runs underneath the north building as
it's placed now. Uh, they're... they've just finished realigning that sewer this week and
so this just establishes the easement over top where the new sewer is at.
Mims/ So did the developer pay to realign that?
Knoche/ Yeah, that was all part of their ... yep!
Mims/ Okay.
Knoche/ ...on their bill, you bet!
Mims/ Okay. Great. Thank you!
ITEM 3d(4) DOWNTOWN STREETSCAPE PLAN ADOPTION — RESOLUTION
ADOPTING THE IOWA CITY DOWNTOWN AND PEDESTRIAN MALL
STREETSCAPE PLAN.
Throgmorton/ Matt, 3d(4), which is the downtown streetscape plan. Uh, I'd like to see us pull
that from the Consent Calendar and vote on it separately.
Hayek/ Okay. So when there's a motion on the Consent Calendar, should be with removal of
that.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Hayek/ Do you want to go ahead and make that motion when we get to that?
ITEM 3f(3) Terrence Neuzil, Chairperson, Johnson County Board of Supervisors:
Request for Joint Meeting
Throgmorton/ Okay, if I ... if I remember, yeah. And Item 3f(3), the letter from, uh, Terrence
Neuzil.
Hayek/ I was going to talk about that.
Throgmorton/ Great, okay.
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Hayek/ We can talk about it now.
Throgmorton/ Go ahead.
Hayek/ Um, so 3f(3) is the letter from Terry Neuzil, um ... played Little League baseball with
him. He was Terry then and I (laughter) old habits die hard! Uh, Terry and I talked, uh,
the other day, uh, about the County's request for a direct meeting with ... with the City
and ... and here's what I'm inclined to suggest. Um, you know, they're... they're looking
to do it every ... every two or three years, urn ... uh ... and ... and ... you know, work on an
agenda in advance and whatnot and I, you know, I think, uh, from ... from my perspective,
I ... I think we should give it a shot. Um ... I mean, we have multiple opportunities to
interface with the County, through JECC, through the MPO, through the joint meetings,
uh, etc., but I think we should accommodate the request. I would suggest that we not
schedule it until 2015. Uh, the ... I think get us past their election cycle and have a ... uh...
Throgmorton/ Was it June? Is that when theirs is?
Botchway/ Well, kind of no, but yeah. No in the sense that, you know, it's ... primary (both
talking) but no (mumbled) in November for it so...
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Hayek/ Yeah. So ... but ... be perfectly happy to do what the rest of you want to do on that.
(several responding)
Throgmorton/ ...as long as we respond positively, I think that would be a really good signal.
(several talking)
Hayek/ Yeah, and our ... our previous letter was ... was I think a positive one and we'll send
another one in the same vein. (several talking in background) Uh, while I've got the
floor here I just want to tell you there are a number of deferral requests on P &Z items.
Um, 5a, we will ... which is the Walden Square Comp Plan amendment. Uh, we're
gonna... we've been asked to defer, uh, until April 1St. So we're gonna open the public
hearin ... hearing. If anyone here wants ... in the audience wants to address us we'll allow
for that, but then we'll defer public hearing and the resolution on that, and we'll need a
motion on that.
ITEM 5a COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT FOR WALDEN SQUARE —
APPROVING AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO
AMEND THE SOUTHWEST DISTRICT PLAN TO CHANGE THE LAND USE
DESIGNATION OF PROPERTY LOCATED WEST OF MORMON TREK
BOULEVARD, NORTH OF WESTWINDS DRIVE (WALDEN SQUARE) FROM
NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL TO COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL.
(CPA12- 00006)
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Hayek/ Uh, 5b, same thing. Uh, which is the CZA for Walden Square. We don't have a signed
CZA and that's the ... that's the rub.
ITEM 5b REZONING WALDEN SQUARE — CONDITIONALLY REZONING 8.7
ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM NEIGHBORHOOD COMMERCIAL (CN -1)
ZONE TO COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL (CC -2) ZONE LOCATED WEST OF
MORMON TREK BOULEVARD, NORTH OF WESTWINDS DRIVE. (REZ12-
00001) (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Hayek/ Um, 5... g, which is Windsor West Part Three, uh, legal papers need more work and so
we'll need to ... we'll need a motion to defer that until April 1St
ITEM 5g WINDSOR WEST, PART THREE — RESOLUTION APPROVING
FINAL PLAT (SUB13- 00025)
Hayek/ And 5h, uh, ditto. That's the Westwinds Second Addition. So if someone could
remember to make motions on those four P &Z items that'd be great. Other questions on
the agenda?
ITEM 5h WESTWINDS SECOND ADDITION — RESOLUTION APPROVING
FINAL PLAT. (SUB13- 00021)
ITEM 3e(6) WATER SERVICE CHARGES AND FEES - RESOLUTION
SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR APRIL 15, 2014, ON AN ORDINANCE
AMENDING TITLE 3 ENTITLED "FINANCES, TAXATION & FEES,"
CHAPTER 4 ENTITLED "SCHEDULE OF FEES, RATES, CHARGES, BONDS,
FINES AND PENALTIES," SECTION 3 ENTITLED "POTABLE WATER USE
AND SERVICE," OF THE CITY CODE TO INCREASE OR CHANGE WATER
SERVICE CHARGES AND FEES.
Dobyns/ I had a question on 3e(6), uh, Dennis on, um, FYI 5/16 water rate increases, um, I'm
taking a look at the history and background, first paragraph, where it describes that, um,
it... it seems there was a recommendation, I think probably from the consultant, HDR
Engineering, uh, or from City staff to, uh ... um, recommend some rate increases, um...
and I was just wondering, was there a reason why those rate increases were not, uh,
recommended by City staff or, uh, agreed to by City Council. I know it was before (both
talking)
Bockenstedt/ Yeah, I ... I don't necessarily know that, other than to assume it was just never
brought forward, um, you know, they hired the consultant who made those
recommendations, but I ... I guess I don't have answers to why those were not brought
forward.
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Dickens/ I know we went from like 89 until a few years (both talking)
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Markus / Rick might be able to help the conversation (several talking)
Fosse/ Thank you. The timing was bad at that. That was during the time we were having the
turnover in the City Manager position and we ... we had enough things on the table at that
time so ... we tabled the increases for a later date.
Dobyns/ Okay, and so we've just kind of fallen a little bit behind ... cause my sense is that I ... I've
heard ... I guess we have some infrastructure concerns regarding waterworks. Is that, uh,
and do we ... you know, my concern is that we fell behind somewhat on being able to pull
in revenues to perhaps, uh, maintain our, um, you know, waterworks infrastructure.
Fosse / Right. Our ... our focus in the last 10 years, well, 20 years has been on the ... the above-
ground infrastructure, the water plant itself and ... and we have I believe, uh, fallen behind
a bit on the maintenance of our... our underground infrastructure, and that's what we're
working to do is get caught up there.
Dobyns/ Okay. It's catch -up time.
Fosse/ Stuff that's out of sight and out of mind. Yep.
ITEM 3d(5) REAP GRANT FOR CITY PARK CABINS - RESOLUTION
AUTHORIZING CITY STAFF TO MAKE APPLICATION FOR FUNDING
ASSISTANCE FROM THE STATE HISTORICAL SOCIETY OF IOWA FOR
THE RESTORATION OF THE OLD SETTLERS' ASSOCIATION LOG CABINS
IN UPPER CITY PARK.
Hayek/ This is a minor issue but that, uh, the REAP grant and the consent, uh, for the log cabins
in City Park, going after the grant for that. I ... I think it's a great move...
Dobyns/ Uh huh.
Hayek/ ...the City to make. I remember as a child seeing those cabins and they were in much
better shape than they are now and it's part of our heritage and I think it'll coincide nicely
with the redo of the ... of City Park pool!
ITEM 7. ENTERTAINMENT VENUE EXCEPTION TO THE UNDER 21
ORDINANCE - ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 4, ALCOHOLIC
BEVERAGES, CHAPTER 5, PROHIBITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS, SECTION
8, PERSONS UNDER THE LEGAL AGE IN LICENSED OR PERMITTED
ESTABLISHMENTS, SUBSECTION B, TO CLARIFY THE REQUIREMENTS
FOR ISSUANCE OF AN ENTERTAINMENT VENUE; AND TITLE 4,
ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES, CHAPTER 1, DEFINITIONS, SECTION 1,
DEFINITIONS OF WORDS AND TERMS TO CLARIFY THE DEFINITION OF
A "PERFORMER" UNDER THE ORDINANCE. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
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Dobyns/ Eleanor, I had a question on Item 7, um, in the uh, public session. This is, um, on
Eric's, um, regarding entertainment venue amendment. Um, it ... I'm trying to get a sense
of what the exception is, is that.... and... and part of this is a, you know, just may be a
miswriting in the media, but you can't get the exception unless the PAULA rate in the
previous two years is ... is 25 %, um, in terms of getting any exception, you know, or
applying for an exception as an entertainment venue, um, for under -21, one of the
requirements is that you have to have a PAULA rate in the last two years (both talking)
Dilkes/ No, the last ... last 12 months.
Dobyns/ ...12 months.
Dilkes/ The ... the subject of this amendment deals with the sales to minors within the last five -
year period.
Dobyns/ Right.
Dilkes/ Um, currently it's a grounds for revocation, but it's not included in the earlier section.
Uh, the argument has been made to us that we therefore can't deny it. We don't agree
with that, but we thought we'd clean it up.
Dobyns/ Okay. So if a ... if a venue has, um, a violation, uh, one violation of underage, um, sale
to a minor of alcohol...
Dilkes/ Uh huh.
Dobyns/ ... um ... is it, is that sort of, do we not even look at them in terms of applying for an
entertainment venue, uh, exception?
Dilkes/ No. The requirement is two sales within five years.
Dobyns/ Two sales.
Dilkes/ They cannot have had two sales within five years.
Dobyns/ Okay. All right. So that's the ... probably the hardest threshold to ... cover. Okay.
Bramel/ We're changing that from five -year period in general to the last five years (mumbled)
Dilkes/ Right, and ... and I think that was the intention (several talking) ... actually all along.
Dobyns/ Okay. Thank you.
ITEM 5c EXPANSION / ENLARGEMENT DRINKING ESTABLISHMENT —
ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14: ZONING CODE CHANGING THE
DEFINITION OF "ENLARGEMENT/EXPANSION" SO THAT, FOR A
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NONCONFORMING DRINKING ESTABLISHMENT, AN ALTERATION OR
ADDITION TO A COMMERCIAL KITCHEN THAT DOES NOT RESULT IN
AN INCREASE IN THE ALLOWABLE OCCUPANCY LOAD WILL NOT BE
CONSIDERED AN ENLARGEMENT/EXPANSION OF THE USE. (FIRST
CONSIDERATION)
Bramel/ I'll piggyback off that with, um, I had a question on, uh, Item 5c concerning the
enlargement to drinking establishments. Um, I don't know, Geoff, you could answer this
at all but um ... uh, I read through it and understood the conforming, uh, for the drinking
establishment and for the addition of kitchens and whatnot, but I also read, um, down in
the packet that, um ... uh, street cafes were also to be, uh, were part of that also? I'm not
sure if that was in there or ... or, um ... prior to this or ... or not. I wasn't sure, but I did read
that and had a question, I guess, why.
Boothroy/ Your question is were they included or not included? I ... I didn't catch it from back
there in the back.
Bramel/ Yeah, so as I was reading through this I saw that the addition of kitchens is in there, uh,
that ... that would not be considered an enlargement, um...
Boothroy/ As long as the occupant load didn't increase, yes (both talking)
Bramel/ ...doesn't change, uh, but it also said, uh, same ... the same, uh, would be so for street
venues like ... street (both talking)
Boothroy/ Street vendors?
Bramel/ Street cafes. It said in there. So...
Boothroy/ I'll have to take a look at that. I'm not ... it's primarily to deal with, uh, businesses, uh,
in buildings that, uh, are enlarging their kitchens for restaurant uses...
Bramel/ Yes, exactly!
Boothroy/ ...and uh, if they have an outsour ... outdoor cafe, it might, you know, they might be
able to use that kitchen facilities for that but it's not ... it's primarily for, uh, remodeling of
structures.
Bramel/ Very good.
Markus/ Doesn't change the occupancy (several talking) Outdoor dining (both talking)
Boothroy/ ...we don't have any outdoor kitchens so all ... it would be within the building.
Bramel/ Yeah, I think that's where I got confused (both talking)
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Dilkes/ I ... well I think if you look at the last, um, I think where you're seeing this is the last
section, or the last sentence says, For non - conforming drinking establishments, neither
sidewalk cafes nor any alteration or addition to a comer.... commercial kitchen that does
not result in a change in occupancy will be considered an enlargement or expansion.
Bramel/ Exactly. Okay. All right, very good. Thank you!
Hayek/ Other agenda questions?
ITEM 3f(1) Drew Dillman; Ann Nevin: Proposed extension of Normandy Drive into
City Park
Dobyns/ I had a question, Mike Moran. Um, there was a letter from, uh, Drew Dillman
regarding the proposed extension of Normandy Drive. Sort of the proposed west
entrance to Lower City Park, about maybe pulling it back and I was trying ... I looked at a
satellite photo of where the trees were, um, and I'm not sure exactly when Council is
going to approve where that road's going to go, but (mumbled) you know the letter I'm
referring to?
Moran/ Yeah, yeah.
Dobyns/ Can you comment on his ... his concern of trees, where the road's currently being routed.
Moran/ His concern is trees because of...it's right next to his property. So his ... he's worried
that we're going to cut those down but, uh, based on our last discussion that we had with
you all, uh, we're going to try to keep it as contiguous with the trail as possible and...
have a ... a gate system so that it's truly going to be an emergency access and it won't be
something that's just a wide -open street access. It'll truly be an emergency access or a
secondary access in times of need.
Dobyns/ Sure it'll be access though but I mean are there any trees that are going to be...
Moran/ I don't think we'll lose any if we keep it with the trail system, uh, or within ... keep it
contiguous with the trail. Uh, we won't lose as many as we were going to lose if we
would have moved it closer to the river.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Moran/ But we aren't going to do that.
Dobyns/ Got it, thank you!
Throgmorton/ Sounds good!
Hayek/ Thank you, Mike. Okay, why don't we move on, uh, to discuss the Gateway Project
design parameters. Rick Fosse is going to talk to us, and I want to remind everyone
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we're taking this up during the work session but not taking action or giving direction, uh,
this evening. Uh, so this is an opportunity for further information from staff and, uh,
consultants, uh, and (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Matt, could we also note that we haven't had a chance to read the traffic, uh,
analysis that was presented in the late handout, and I know Rick knows that already but...
Hayek/ Yeah, I spoke to Rick about that, so there is in your late packets some additional
supplemental material that I think supplements the presentation that's going to be made,
but most of us, and maybe all of us, haven't had a chance to dig into that.
Discuss Gateway Proiect Design Parameters:
Fosse/ Yep! And let's ... let's talk about that right out of the shoot, um ... in the late handout was
the supplemental traffic operations analysis, and what that is is the ... the basis of some of
the recommendations that you'll hear tonight, and this was put together by HNTB, based
on listening to your comments and concerns about, uh, the design elements of the project
at previous meetings, and uh, specifically addresses four questions in there, uh, is it
necessary to add a right turn lane to the southbound Dubuque Street at the Park Road
intersection; uh, how many dedicated left turn lanes are needed for eastbound Park Road
at the Dubuque Street intersection; uh, would dedicated left turn ... or would a dedicated
left turn lane and a shared left/right turn lane suffice for eastbound Park Road. I think
you asked that one, Susan.
Mims / Uh huh, yep!
Fosse / And then finally, uh, how many westbound lanes should there be on the Park Road
bridge. So this is the supporting data for the recommendations that ... that will be made
tonight. My apologies that this was not in ... in a position to, uh, be distributed last week,
but it's out now and ... and as Matt said, we'll not be making decisions tonight, so there's
plenty of time to digest it and ... and answer any questions that you may have on that.
Throgmorton/ Rick, I did have a chance to skim over that document very, very briefly, and the
thing that leaped out at me is that ... what you just said is based entirely on traffic
information, not on any other factor that would have a bearing on the decision, at least
from my point of view.
Fosse/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ So, when one says it is necessary to do so and so, I'd say, okay, you know, just
purely in terms of traffic maybe that's true, but in terms of other factors that I believe we
should consider, maybe it's not true. So I just want to ... kind of lay that out there (both
talking)
Fosse/ Okay!
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Throgmorton/ ... as, you know (both talking)
Fosse/ No, that's fair and (both talking)
Hayek/ I'd say though just in ... in fairness to Rick, it's titled `Supplemental Traffic Operations
Analysis,' and so I don't know that it was intended...
Throgmorton/ But it's the basis of what follows. Rick just said that.
Hayek/ Okay.
Fosse/ Yeah. Okay! So, anyway, with me tonight is ... is the usual crowd. We've got, uh,
Melissa Clow who's our in -house project engineer who's managing this project; uh, Ron
Knoche, City engineer; um, Mark Pearson with HNTB, along with some of his staff, key
staff, for tonight, uh, Kyle, Matt, and (can't hear), and then also tonight is some of the
MPOJC staff, are they here? (away from mic) Okay! So we have Kent, Darien, and
John here to help address some of the traffic questions that we have. So ... at our last
work session in January, you established the three design parameters that, uh, basically,
uh, fixed the level of flood protection for the project, as ... as well as the bridge type, and
at that time you expressed an interest in having some input on the design elements of the
project, and that's why ... that's why we're here tonight. Um, this is the first time we've
gone this deep into the design of a project, uh, at the Council level since the (laughter)
Melrose Avenue project in 1995. So, you know, every 19 years we ... we take a (laughter)
dive like this and ... and really go after it. The, uh, you know, there's a number of design
elements here, and those design elements need to be applied at a variety of locations
throughout the corridor of this project, and the impacts of those design elements are inter-
related. So it ... it's a complicated thing that we're undertaking, and design teams can
spend days or weeks, uh, discussing amongst themselves these elements, uh, before they
land on something for a design, and we've got roughly an hour in front of us so ... I...I
just lay that out there cause I don't want us all to ... I don't want to build, uh ... uh,
unreasonable expectations and ... and frustrations. We've got a lot to cover in an hour.
We'll do our best. We don't expect that we're going to get through everything tonight,
uh, but we do hope that we conclude at our ... at our April 1 meeting. And our objective
for the evening are to review the activities since our January meeting, what we've done.
Uh, discuss those design elements for the project, uh, and then develop the design
elements as they'll be presented on the project concept statement that's going to go to the
DOT. That's part of that formal process that's... that's involved when we have our $10.5
million of...of federal money on this project. So one of the things that I want you to pay,
uh, a key ... key attention, or to key on and think about during Mark's presentation are the
multi -modal aspects of this corridor. Uh, this corridor is a workhouse, or workhorse. It,
uh, is second only to Highway 6 as far as, uh, traffic volume in Iowa City. So it's our
second busiest arterial street that we have, and it goes straight into the core of our city,
which I think is a good thing for the core of our city and the vitality of it. So in addition
to that, Dubuque Street also serves as ... as a multi -modal corridor. It's got a lot of
pedestrians on it. You've got bicycle traffic, and we have a lot of bus traffic on that, as
well. So ... enhancing all the modes of transportation of this corridor has been a priority
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from us from the start, and ... and some of the ... the comments and correspondence that
you received so far on this, sometimes pit this as a ... as an either /or, um, proposition.
That is (coughing, difficult to hear speaker) better accommodate one mode of
transportation you need to give up something on another mode of transportation. And we
don't necessarily view it that way, and, uh, we've not approached the design thus far that
way. Um, so ... pay attention to ... to Mark's presentation with regard to those multi -modal
aspects of it, and he does have a summary slide in there that talks about each of the
modes of transportation and the enhancements that are proposed as part of this project.
So with that introduction, I will turn it over to Mark Pearson at this time, and we'll move
on. Thank you!
Pearson/ Thanks, Rick. Good evening to everybody!
Throgmorton/ Hi, Mark!
Hayek/ Hi, Mark.
Pearson/ So, the past couple months we've been doing a variety of activities. Rick's talked a
little bit about it. One was to take your parameters regarding the elevation of Dubuque
Street, the bridge, and the type of bridge and reapply it to the NEPA alternative that we
had developed, uh, during the ... the two years plus of NEPA study. Um, also during that
interim we've had some public involvement activities, uh ... between my folks and City
staff, we've had ... uh, meetings with Bella Vista residents and Northside residents.
We've met with individual property owners to talk about how the project affects their
individual properties. Uh, I know Melissa's presented to the Kiwanis and other civic
organizations. We've met with the University teams for Hancher and Mayflower. We've
met with our technical advisory committee that consists of University and uh, City, um...
department heads, and we also had a pre- design open house I think just four weeks ago
over at the Public Library. I know Jim was there for sure. Um, we had over 100
attendees. We simply walked folks through what the alternatives look like now with your
new parameters and guidance, and how we applied that. We'll get into the details of
what lane widths look like and curb and gutter, and what's the sidewalk versus multi -use
path, but we simply took the NEPA alternative that we had developed and just took all
those elements and lowered them. So ... and that's what we made available to folks to
review at the open house a few weeks ago. Uh, I think you have a summary of that event
as part of your Council packet. I know it was a pretty thick packet this last week so there
was a lot to pour through, but there was a summary in there, and there must have been
literally hundreds of comments that kind of captured the same thing just from different
perspectives, but we tried to boil it down a little bit and again, nothing scientific here.
We didn't do one vote for this and one vote for that, but it was just more observational
and you have it in your packet but... some of the things we heard repeatedly were
aesthetics are important through the corridor. Just the natural beauty of being able to see
the river, to see City Park. From tying in to the bridge, tying in with the aesthetics of
Hancher and making all that work together. Uh, we did hear that sidewalks were
important throughout the corridor, including the eastside. We also heard some ... from
some folks that said please don't have sidewalks on the eastside. So I don't want to give
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you the impression that it was all or ... or nothing. Um, pretty much everybody,
regardless of their opinion on the eastside sidewalks did say that pedestrian, safe
pedestrian crossings are important throughout the corridor, and Mayflower in particular.
Uh, speed limit I know has been a topic of discussion throughout. We had fairly even
split between folks who would say just make it 25, the whole corridor, to folks who were
saying basically keep it as it is. So I don't think we'll ever get consensus on that one, but
we can certainly have a discussion about it. Um ... we heard a mix of Dubuque and Park
lane ... turning lanes are important, both just for daily commuting traffic because it is a
heavily commute... heavily traveled commuter corridor, but also, uh, related to events at
Hancher and associated with the University and events there. Um, and one I'm sure
you've heard before repeatedly would be to keep construction as brief as possible,
although for the record we're going to be out there two different construction seasons,
but ... we'll try to do our best to keep it as short as possible. Rick mentioned this a little
bit, but from the very beginning of this, when we were first looking at the NEPA process
kicking off, in our purpose and need from day one was to make this about multiple modes
of transportation in the corridor. It wasn't just about, uh, vehicular traffic. We wanted to
make sure we were working with Cambus to figure out if there were things that we could
tweak or that we should leave alone regarding bus operations. We wanted to enhance
trail connections on up towards the reservoir and throughout the city with this project.
Uh, we wanted to make sure that we provided pedestrian amenities, whether that was a
safe, multiple safe crossing locations or providing pedestrian amenities where you will
see in a later slide where there are cow paths today, where there is no sidewalk but people
are still traveling. Uh, and so we really did want to make sure that we didn't treat this as
a zero sum, that it was cars versus buses, or cars versus pedestrians, but to try to
accommodate the vehicle traffic that's there today and is projected to be there in the
future, along with making it a better corridor for bicyclists, pedestrians, and transit. So
before we get going into the details, we're going to walk ... we're going to walk through
eventually from Foster down to the Park Road intersection and then from that
intersection, west out towards Riverside, but just a quick ... uh, primer. Again, we worked
with the parameters that you gave us and just reapplied what we had developed
previously, basically lowering everything. But ... we're going to talk about cross - sections
at different points through the discussion, and just so we're all on the same page, I
wanted to walk you through a couple of examples. So what I have on screen is what we
call an urban section. It's got curbs and gutter. It's got the travel lanes, and this is an
example where there is no median. And so when we talk about travel lanes, you can kind
of see how it's bracketed around the cars. Keep in mind that that's for the cars, but
there's also a curb and gutter section that might be anywhere from a foot and a half to
two and a half feet wide, depending on where you're at, to help convey storm water. And
keep that out of the traveled lane. Uh, we also show where we're talking about parkway,
which is normally that grass strip between the back of one curb and where the sidewalks
are, and the sidewalks, as you can see up there ... I'll probably end up mistakenly using
multi -use path and sidewalk, but know as we're going through the project we consider
the ... the path, the multi -use path or trail to be that on the, along the southbound lanes of
Dubuque Street. So that wider trail, and sidewalks are on the eastern side. So this is an
example of...uh, of an urban section where we don't have any kind of median, uh, a hard
concrete median or grass median or anything like that between the travel lanes. This
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would be an example of where we would have a median. Uh, right now that would start
somewhere just south of...of Mayflower and then as you're driving north you will note
...remember the ... the median. It ... it varies throughout that, so in some sections it might
be five feet, in others it might be 50 to 75 -feet wide. And we are keeping it somewhat
similar as we applied it through... through the corridor. There's also ... we haven't applied
it yet but it might be an option as we get into the design, where it's a rural, modified rural
section we call it. So the difference is, is that you'd have curb and gutter on the outside
lanes, but where you're at the median, we would have a shoulder and it would just drain
naturally into the median, and that might be a good way to have some more natural, uh,
storm water filtration and give us some opportunities for different kinds of enhancements
in the median, but it's a typical section that we could apply. We'll figure that part out
during design and ... and some further conversations with you later on. But just so you
know that's... that's a potential option as well. Uh, when we're talking about travel lanes,
I just wanted to throw this example up on screen. So this bus is to scale. Uh, Dave will
...will tell you that a Cambus from outside mirror to outside mirror is 10 1/2 feet wide, so
just keep in mind when we're talking about an 11 -foot lane, that's the lighter yellow and
a 12 -foot lane includes those gold bars on the outside. So keep in mind when we're
talking about a 12 -foot lane, or an 11 -foot lane, just ... in this corridor it's heavily traveled
for buses. It's heavily traveled for delivery vehicles. It can get pretty narrow when
you've got three inches basically on either side of your mirrors, interacting with other
traffic, but we just wanted to throw that up there as an example of kind of what's the
difference between an 11- and a 12 -foot lane. Uh, again, when we're talking about curb
and gutter, it has a couple reasons for having curb and gutter, and one is storm water
conveyance and you can see in this picture up on the left, it's not doing a very good job
there. That's what happens if you don't have a good curb and gutter through there. Um,
but also there's some snow storage iss ... excuse me, snow storage issues, and so in this
example, it might be a little bit tough to see, but if you follow that seam on the right -hand
side of the screen, you can kind of see where the curb tapers down. You can see how
snow and all the grit and grime that accumulates with the snow during the winter can start
to creep into that travel lane. Um, and so the curb and gutter provides you a little bit of
extra space to store that if it does creep out over the, uh, the curb and into the traveled
way. So just gives you a little better buffer to work with. We thought we'd show you
some before and afters. I know we had done this previously. I just wanted to walk you
through it real quick again so you can see how the, Lim ... how the concept looks today
with the new parameters in place. So we're just going to go from Foster and work our
way south, and then we'll go from east to west. So this is at Foster before, or currently,
and how it...it might look in the future. Again, this is built off the terrain model that we
used to do the design, and it's kind of our best depiction of how it will look. Uh, near
Mayflower before ... and after. This would be near the, um, driveway at the Pike House,
just north of Kimball. And with the new bridge concept. And then from the boathouse
looking south. And looking back across from Lower City Park. And then this would be
near the Hancher entrance, looking to the east. And you can kind of see the ribs of the
arch coming up through the ... the pavement there at the end. So, as we walk through the
corridor tonight, we picked a few focus areas that are listed up on the screen. My thought
was we would start at Foster, work our way south, and then go, uh, from east to west,
through these different locations that we've got up on the screen. As we're walking
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through the corridor, we're going to talk a little bit about how we treated that given area.
So when we talk about an urban section, you'll recall what we showed just a minute ago.
It just means that we've got curb and gutter, and no median, and then when we talk about
having a median, right now we're applying curbs and gutters on both sides, and it'll have
a varied median through that location, but right here immediately at Foster, um, we're
using no median. It's ... uh, 35- miles -an-hour through that stretch. You can see, uh, in
the lighter gray on the outside of the green where we've ... we're showing the, uh, paths
and sidewalks, and I wanted to talk a little bit about reducing the footprint. I know that
was a concern when we were having the discussion about parameters. Um, as we go
through the various slides, you'll see that just by lowering Dubuque Street from the
original concept, which was a foot above the 500 -year flood plain to now a foot above the
100 -year, the ... yellow dotted line was the NEPA footprint that we cleared. The orange
line is where it's starting to come in now, simply by lowering the elevation of Dubuque
Street, or when we get to it, Park Road. Okay?
Throgmorton/ Mark, for clarification, by Dubuque at Foster Road, you mean the, uh, the strip of,
uh, Dubuque, north of Foster Road.
Pearson/ Sorry, Jim, no, we're talking about from Foster, traveling south into the city.
Throgmorton/ All right. That's why I asked the question. I wanted to be clear about that.
Pearson/ Yep! I ... I'm totally ignoring the (coughing, unable to hear speaker) between Foster
and the interstate.
Throgmorton/ So for ... for these purposes, you're presuming 35- miles -an-hour.
Pearson/ That's what we are currently, yes.
Throgmorton/ All right.
Pearson/ And we're treating it just like it is today, where it transitions just north of Kimball from
35 to 25, and the reason I think ... there are plenty of discussions that we can have
regarding the speed limit, but remember, we are coming off of an interstate, and it's
better now that they've finally signalized the inter ... uh, the ramp intersections to slow
folks down instead of just having that free movement off the highway, but ... that does
give them a chance to transition from kind of an interstate mindset to `I'm getting on a
city street now. I need to start slowing down,' and so ... there is that transition as we get
in closer to the downtown and ... and the more residential area out of the rural area, going
from 35 to 25. So that's what we've applied so far.
Throgmorton/ Thanks.
Mims/ Mark, is the alignment basically the same as what the road is right now then?
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Pearson/ It is pretty much right there, and as we go through the different slides you can see
where it'll start to stray away. Usually if it ... if it breaks away from being right on top of
the existing road, it's to move things to the west, towards the park side and away from the
east, uh, properties. This is just a different view. So, uh, to be able to see a little bit
better, and you can see on the left upper... center there how it... it is starting to come in
just by simply applying that new elevation through there.
Dickens/ Was that approximately six feet or...
Pearson/ It varies in some places we're ... we're (both talking)
Dickens/ ... couple feet to six feet?
Pearson/ Yeah, and there's ... I've got a better example as we get down towards Bella Vista, but
you're seeing a difference there, anywhere from ... a couple feet to five or 10 feet.
Payne/ And are those the construction limits?
Pearson/ That would be the ... the construction limits if we just kept it right at there. Now, there
are things that we can ... we can modify when we get into the design process. Right now,
um, if I go back a few slides and you look at the typical ... the one thing I didn't mention
for these sections is ... you can see on the outside either way where it says four to one or
six to one, that's the slopes that we're using right now. So four to one's relatively
gradual. We could tighten it up in some areas to reduce footprint. You're going to start
getting really steep slopes though if you do that, or you could use retaining walls, but
we're trying to avoid using retaining walls where we don't have to. But there are things
that you could do to tighten that up even further. And this is just another example. This
is ... this is what the, uh, a cross - section if you ... if you just drew a line at a spot near, uh,
Foster, how the cross - section would look, and that... so you've got your southbound lanes
on the right -hand side, and your northbound lanes on the left -hand side of the screen.
Dobyns/ Mark, can you go back one slide?
Pearson/ Sure!
Dobyns/ Is this where the, um, bike path that's going to be heading north on the east side of
Dubuque, is this where it's - jumping (both talking)
Pearson/ This is where it would need to transition, and I've got another slide that'll show you
(both talking)
Dobyns/ Okay.
Pearson/ ...how it ... how it jogs like that, but yes, that's exactly where it would transition to go
on to the north, cause the ped bridge is going to be on the east side of Dubuque Street as
it crosses the highway. Right? (unable to hear speaker away from mic) It's going to be
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on the west side. (unable to hear response) So it jogs and then it jogs backup, and we
don't have the trail on the west side because of the ... the retaining wall that's up there.
(unable to hear response)
Dobyns/ We have a map ... we have a map later to look at ... that shows that. Okay.
Pearson/ But yeah, that retaining wall doesn't give you any room to (both talking)
Dobyns/ Yeah, I can (both talking)
Pearson/ Uh, so through this area, we're recommending that you keep, um, now again this is at
Foster to the south, uh, that we have the 10 -foot multi -use path on the park side and we
have a sidewalk on the east side of Dubuque Street. Uh, maintain that current speed limit
for a couple of the reasons that I mentioned previously, um, and continue to use the 12-
foot lanes that are there today, uh, with just a little bit narrower curb and gutter section,
uh, to help minimize the footprint a little bit more. If you go from a two and a half foot
curb and gutter on both sides so it's five feet total to the one and a half, I mean, there's a
simple way where you can save two feet... of concrete, through that stretch and tighten up
the footprint a little bit. And as you see, it's going to transition from having a median to
not having a median as we go further south. So as we get near Taft, um, that's where the
median transition starts. You can see where you start to encounter the grass median. Uh,
we will be realigning the Taft intersection to make it more perpendicular with Dubuque
Street, and provide better sight lines. Um, it ... also we're going to try and provide a little
bit of storage in the median so that a car that wants to go from Taft to the north doesn't
have to go across all four lanes at once. You have a little oasis there in the middle so one
or two cars could stay there until it's safe to make the left turn complete, and likewise if
you're traveling north on Dubuque and want to turn onto Taft Speedway, you've got that
oasis there for you. Uh, you can see just where, again, where that footprint is starting to
creep in, uh, along the east side. On the west side, it looks a little different, uh, because
as we lower the elevations where we had the tie -ins before with the driveways or with
the, uh, intersection with Taft, we need to change it a little bit because of the difference of
elevation. Uh, but we have been able to reduce the size of retaining walls through there,
and ... there's just a different version. You can see, Taft will swing a little bit to the north
to kind of square it up with Dubuque Street a little bit better and provide better sight lines
for ... for vehicles. The trails will be, right now we're just bringing them in, uh, a little bit
tighter along the, um ... the street as right now it kind of meanders through the park. But
we brought it in purposely to, uh, minimize impacts to the park.
Dickens/ You're reducing the median quite a bit there, aren't you, from ... where the previous
(both talking)
Pearson/ Um ... I could go back to the before and after, but no. It's really not much difference
than it is today. And you can kind of see the northbound lanes, outside the green (several
talking in background) kind of along the treeline is where it's at today. You can even see
a... a vehicle in there, but... so we're moving everything a little bit towards the park.
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Throgmorton/ Mark, why ... why you're not ... why are you not suggesting, uh, tightening the
median at least through here in order to avoid any, hm ... transgression on, uh, property to
the east...
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ ... side there.
Pearson/ Um, that's certainly a possibility. When we were looking at alternatives through here,
we wanted to balance impacts to the parks because that had ... I think we talked about that
previously, if you got too far into the parks, that has issues with Federal Highway, just
like property impacts on the other side, and we also wanted to kind of keep a similar
meander to the road that was there currently. We didn't want to just straighten it off.
We ... we would have had a lot of problems if we'd of just taken a straight shot right
through Terrell Mill Park.
Throgmorton/ I'm sure, yeah.
Pearson/ So it was a balancing act.
Hayek/ Are you in fact impacting the area to the east, I mean, looks like the image of the old or
the current roadway shows just east of the ... proposed area. It almost ... it seems like it's
moving west (both talking)
Pearson/ It's ... and that's ... where you see the lines (both talking) right on top of each other,
that's an example of where we have a retaining wall. So, I ... don't know if I can get the
cursor to ... are you talking about along here or (both talking)
Hayek/ ...but it looks like it's actually moving it to the west of where the current... eastern most
roadway is located. (laughter) How `bout them apples? (laughter)
Dickens / And you still want to save room for the turning on Taft there, that there's gotta be room
for a car.
Pearson/ Right. I ... we do have some room to work in there, but that's where, you know,
we ... we tried to keep the alignment generally the same through there, and it ... it's not
exactly, I mean, we did err a little bit to try to pull it further away from the properties
along the east as much as we could without incurring too many problems with the parks
and issues with that, so...
Dickens/ So is a storm water consideration in that when you're moving it a little bit?
Pearson/ Um, well...
Dickens/ Where the current ones are (both talking)
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Pearson/ Storm water's certainly consideration and ... and part of the design will be getting back
in there and getting those culverts the right size to convey all the storm water out of there
so it doesn't have issues. There will be less storm water on the roads when we're done.
Because yeah, one of the problems is localized flooding in heavy rains and we just need
to resize the culverts through there and ... and get the drainage... improved. It's not just a
flooding issue when the river comes up.
Mims/ Mark, in the ... as you're coming down and then you've got what looks like concrete
jutting out to the left where the two lines are basically on top of each other...
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Mims/ ...is that the driveway.
Pearson/ Yes!
Mims/ Okay. What ... what's that distance there and what's the elevation change there from the
road to the garage that's there?
Pearson/ So this is a cross - section of that same property, and so that green line that's drawn on
the plan view where you're looking down is ... what's depicted in the cross - section below.
And so ... you can see the lighter blue dotted line along the top was the wall that was
proposed and the elevation of Dubuque Street with the NEPA alternative before we
implemented your guidance with the new parameters, and so we've reduced the size of
that wall just by lowering it to 100 - plus -one by six, seven feet through there.
Mims/ Okay.
Pearson/ Along that wall, uh, so now it's approximately ... I'm going to have to get my glasses on
to see that exactly, but it's ... it's approximately a five -foot wall now instead of 10 or 12-
foot from before. But there are (both talking)
Mims/ So what's the elevation change going to be to that driveway, I mean, right now it's pretty
flat I think from the street into ... into the garage there.
Pearson/ Gotcha, yeah ... um, Matt, do you know the... it's... we're relocating the driveway ... to,
um, tie into the ... we're relocating the entrance to the driveway to tie in further up the
slope, and again, so that's probably five or six feet vertical, and you can see how much
we've moved it just to the south.
Mims/ Okay.
Pearson/ But again, there's an issue where we can work with the property owner and try to strike
a balance, I mean, that's ... when we get into...
Dickens/ Is that the Coulter property there?
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Mims/ Yeah, it's the Coulter property.
Payne/ So where that retaining wall will be then is actually if...about in the middle of where the
two lanes are now that go to the north?
Pearson/ Uh, no, the retaining wall ... would really follow along, and I don't ... does this thing
work on the screen if I...
Karr/ It's a pointer (several talking)
Pearson/ Oh! Geez, okay (laughter) (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Aim it up there, Mark.
Hayek/ Welcome to 1997!
Pearson/ ...just kind of waving this around (laughter) Yeah, there we go. Usually I'm making
my dog go in circles or something with this thing, so it's a little (laughter) So, the
retaining wall would generally follow along this line up here.
Payne / Right, so that looks like it's actually in the current traveled way.
Pearson/ Yes, it is.
Payne/ That ... that was my (both talking)
Pearson/ Correct, I'm sorry, it is. So we've ... we've pulled it (both talking)
Payne/ ...that's how much you've moved it.
Pearson/ ...pulled the roadway alignment over, right and then the ... yeah, the blue line there
would be the...
Payne/ The edge of the traveled way?
Pearson/ The curb line now.
Payne/ Oh, the curb line, okay (several talking)
Pearson/ So ... I'm not sure exactly ... how many feet that is, but we had ... there's an example of
where we have pulled it away from the existing property to try to minimize impacts. And
so it's ... through this stretch, uh, again, we want to keep paths and sidewalks on both
sides, um, maintain the current speed limit that's there today, uh, again, applying that...
that cross - section with the 12 -foot lanes and the foot and a half curb and gutter, and
transition into, uh, that median that we showed just a minute ago.
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Throgmorton/ Can you... can you tell us again why you're recommending a 10 -foot wide
sidewalk on one side and six on the other? Why those dimensions?
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ I mean, I understand the difference, you know, between (both talking)
Pearson/ Understood.
Throgmorton/ ...why 10 and six?
Pearson/ That ... the 10 -foot on the western side is to mimic the trail that's already there and
provide that trail connection so that you have a ... less conflict with the pedestrians that
might use it and the bicyclists that might use it. It just provides you more room for
everybody on that side, and we've got that to work with on the park. I mean, it's just a
natural place to have it.
Throgmorton/ So why not eight and five? Instead of 10 and six.
Pearson/ It could be eight and five. Um, with the six -foot, part of it is maintenance, part of it is
also you might have a bicyclist on there, so six -foot gives you a little bit more room to
have pedestrians and bicyclists interact than five feet does (several talking)
Fosse/ Thank you! I wanted to dive in on (several talking) So on... on the west side of the road,
that is a part of the Iowa River Corridor Trail System. So we want to make sure that we
meet the standards, the actual standards for a trail system and the 10 -feet is the minimum
for that. So that's why we have 10 on the west side.
Dickens / And what's the minimum now that we're building sidewalks in parks and everything, is
that five or six -feet?
Fosse/ Well, our minimum in... in neighborhoods now is five -feet and usually if the Parks
Department is maintaining it, they like at least six, ideally eight (both talking)
Dickens/ ... for the blade.
Fosse/ Yeah, yeah, for the type of, uh, machinery that they use to maintain it, so you don't get
the ruts.
Throgmorton/ But, Rick, such standards don't necessarily take into account the unique
topographical features of a particular location. Instead they presume sort of a ... a generic
kind of situation. So ... I ... I don't see that being a compelling argument for having 10 and
six, instead of say eight and five in order to avoid some other, uh, peripheral effects that
we wouldn't want to do, that we wouldn't want to have.
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Fosse/ Yeah. Well, we believe we have the space on the west side and where we are building
new trail system, we are ... we are making every effort to build it to the full actual
standards, and we're doing that everywhere. Used to be eight feet — it's 10 now. I
believe the preferred is 12. But that's not what we're proposing here.
Dobyns/ Jim, are you suggesting less or more? I ... I don't...
Throgmorton/ Oh definitely not more. What I was suggesting is eight and five instead of 10 and
six, in order to save three feet and avoid some other peripheral or collateral effects on,
um, property on the east.
Dobyns/ Since it's flat topo ... I'll use the word topography, since it's flat topography, that means
perhaps a biker could negotiate a less -width parkway with less ... at eight foot? I use the
word topography and I'm not sure what you implied.
Dickens/ That gets away from the minimum that's required.
Throgmorton/ I'm referring to the corridor as a whole. Uh, not specifically to one little part of it,
but to the corridor as a whole, and it ... it, uh, you know, if you take the topographical
features of the corridor, meaning where the slope of the hill is, and where the river is and
so on, take that into account, you're suddenly constrained, um, horizontally in terms of
space.
Dobyns/ Oh, okay.
Throgmorton/ ... so... (both talking)
Dobyns/ Not the slope but the path.
Throgmorton/ ...find a way to deal with the constraint, instead of building to, um ... uh, uniform
standards. (several responding)
Hayek/ I want ... I want to keep us on track here. We've got about 35 minutes left, um, and we
haven't even hit Ridge Road (laughter) so we want to get through the presentation and
the recommendations, and then there'll be time for questions either this time or ... or next,
but I ... I think we probably...
Dobyns/ We're going about five miles -an-hour down the road (several talking and laughing)
Pearson/ Okay! So, Ridge Road, uh, again ... we've got a median there that we're showing that is
similar what's there today. Um, the Ridge Road intersection is being realigned a little bit
because of wanting to square it off so it's perpendicular and you have better sight lines,
on both sides. Right now on the eastern side where Ridge connects in, it's ... it's tough to
see anybody coming, uh, having to crane your neck back to the right to see what's
coming from the s ... southbound lanes. So, uh, squaring that off a little bit, uh ... this is an
example of where we've had a... a meeting with the property owner right there at the
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Englert house to talk with him about issues related to the location and the intersection,
and the proximity of his driveway and ... and have had a good conversation with him
about that. Uh, we're keeping a similar amount of storage in the median, actually adding
a few feet because that is where the Cambus will make its turnaround heading out of
Mayflower to turn around and come back to campus. Um, that's a difficult maneuver to
make right now. We're giving them a little bit more room to work, but again, this is an
example of where you kind of see the existing pavement. We've pulled the, uh,
alignment of the roadway to the west, away from those properties, to allow us to give
some space on Ridge to make that a better, uh, intersection and also maintain that
distance in the median for the Cambus to turn around. And the change in the park
impacts that I have on there is just because where we thought it would tie in because of it
being a foot above the 500. It's changed now that it's a foot above the 100 -year flood
plain. This is just a zoom -in on that.
Payne/ Will it be more ... I'm going to say flat.
Pearson/ K!
Payne/ Rather than, you know how the ... the northbound...
Pearson/ Are you talking about Ridge? Or...
Payne / Where the bus turnaround is. You know how it's not ... it's not ... it's, the northbound
lanes are lower than the... southbound lanes, will it be more flat?
Pearson/ It might be. I think when we get into design and we're looking at the drainage and
everything, that... it'll... it should...
Mims / Rick's nodding yes a little bit.
Payne/ Okay.
Pearson/ ... should be better, but I can't guarantee (both talking)
Payne/ That it's going to be, yeah, zero ... I get that, but more ... more better than it is today
(laughter)
Pearson/ We're looking for more better, yes!
Dickens/ Most bestest! Yes.
Pearson/ Most bestest, yes. (laughter) Very good! This is just a ... a cross - section of what it
would look through that stretch, um ... and you can see, the darker gray shading is where
the, uh, the NEPA alternative elevation was compared to what it's showing, and then the
dotted line above the dark brown is ... is the current elevation. Still recommending the
same path configuration through there, and the varied median, um, same lanes, curb and
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gutter, etc. As we get to Mayflower, um, we're going to start to transition, uh, back to
the, uh, what we called the urban section without the median. So the grass will ... the
median will start to narrow back up until you get down by Kimball, then it's back to
basically what it looks like today with the lanes right next to each other with no median.
Uh, keeping the multi -use paths and sidewalks, uh, through that stretch. And we're
almost to the transition for speed limit, but not quite. We're still mirroring what's there
today.
Throgmorton/ Mark...
Pearson/ Yes!
Throgmorton/ ... I ... I take it you're... you're not recommending, uh, some ... any kind of
signalization, traffic signalization at Mayflower.
Pearson/ Not if there, and this is ... if MPOJC or ... or Rick, you want to chime in, but not if there
are sidewalks on both sides of Dubuque Street.
Throgmorton/ Right, so the sidewalks could be disappeared, right, we could remove the
sidewalks on the east side, at least in large part. Have traffic signalization at Mayflower,
and a 10 -foot wide walk on the west side, going all the way up toward the interstate bas
...basically, except for the...
Pearson/ Except for that jog.
Throgmorton/ Yeah. So that ... that's feasible, right, or at least possible.
Pearson/ It is possible, and I can show you in a couple slides from now what it looks like today
and... and folks following, even though there's not a sidewalk provided, walking along
there. So the idea originally was, if they're already using it to walk along there, why
shouldn't we make it safer for them to walk on it (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Cause there's no safe way to cross at Mayflower! People'd run across the street.
Now there's no safe way to do that.
Pearson/ Well, certainly a signalized intersec ... uh, pedestrian intersection is a possibility there at
...at the crosswalk, um, and we can ... we can talk about that (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Pearson/ That's certainly an option, with sidewalks on both sides or without. Um, and Kent,
correct me if I misspeak, but ... if there's sidewalks on both sides ... your thought is the
pedestrian- activated crosswalk isn't warranted. (unable to hear response) Did I capture
it? (laughs)
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Ralston/ Yeah, that's correct. We ... we looked at, uh, the ... the warrants that are necessary to
actually implement the pedestrian signalization. Um, currently right now in the PM peak
period, the warrants are very close with the number of pedestrians that are there, but
they're not close at all in the AM period, and our thought is, of course, if you build the
sidewalk on the east side, that will cut the number of pedestrian crossing that location
maybe by half or more, and then thereby the pedestrian signal would not be, uh,
necessary by any means.
Throgmorton/ Sure.
Pearson/ We ... we're leaving that pedestrian crossing there as ... as we saw in the ... in the image
there. So I mean they still can cross back and forth, and ... and so, um, we ... I'm sure
we're going to have yield signs there for sure, if I'm not mistaken — yield to pedestrian.
What are we thinking there?
Ralston/ No, they would not be yield to pedestrian signs. It would just be the pedestrian crossing
signs and the advanced warning signs that are there today.
Pearson/ Okay, sounds good. Is there any idea that we need... is there any thought that we might
do that in any way, or perhaps light up the pedestrian crossing with, uh, like in street
lighting or anything? As of...as of right now, it's ... as Jim says, more or less people...
people do run across it, and it is hard to see, especially at night, even if you are warned
...warned to slow down, many do not, and so it's kind of like a game of frogger.
Ralston/ Sure. And there are warning beacons and ... and other devices that we can look into.
Pearson/ All right.
Ralston/ But we would not recommend a yield to pedestrian sign, uh, like we use in other
locations, just for rear -end collisions.
Throgmorton/ Kent, if we did not, uh, install a ... walkway on the east side of Dubuque, would,
um, the warrants... would... would that warrant a traffic signal at that particular location?
Ralston/ Well, I don't think it would, Jim, because the data we collected now is ... is what's there
today, which are the few people that ... that Mark discussed that are kind of using those
cow paths on the east side. You know, we're not collecting those folks because they're
not crossing, but what was collected is what exists there today. The counts we got were
unfortunately from a colder part of year, uh, which does affect our numbers a little bit,
but even taking that into account, it'd be right about borderline, uh, for the PM ... peak
hour warrants, but then again, not even close in the AM. It's just a matter of when
students get to class.
Bramel/ For ... for the record, there's construction going on and it's cold out, so that ... I think that
would also (mumbled) the data in that respect.
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Ralston/ It ... it did, but our data was actually collected before the construction started.
Bramel/ Okay. All right.
Hayek/ Thanks, Kent.
Pearson/ One thing I neglected to mention, uh, when we're looking at Mayflower, we had
conversations early on with the University and with Cambus about how operations are
today and if they would want to see any changes and ... and we purposely kept it the way
it is today cause that's how it's been operating for nearly 40 ... since 72, Dave? (unable to
hear response) 80s, since Mayflower was there, so (unable to hear response) You didn't
go out there before then? So, 30 -odd years it's been operating like that just fine, so we...
we stuck to that.
Payne / And can I ask you a question about this cross - section real quick?
Pearson/ Uh huh!
Payne / Where do you anticipate the gas, the electric, the cable TV, and the phone will go?
Pearson/ All of the utilities, save the sanitary, would be along the east side of the corridor, and
the sanitary would be on the west side, on the river side.
Payne/ The sanitary...
Pearson/ Sewer.
Payne / What about gas, electric, cable (both talking)
Pearson/ Everything else on the opposite side. Nobody wants to be by the sewer.
Payne / Right, so I ... you said ... you said sewer both times so I was thinking...
Pearson/ Oh, oh, sorry! Sanitary on ... on the river side, everybody else on the east side.
Payne/ So in that...
Pearson/ So on the Mayflower side ... which is that ... column there.
Payne/ Yep. Okay, thanks!
Pearson/ Uh, as we get south of Mayflower we start to transition. This is where, uh, the river
takes the turn and that's where we would need to start picking up retaining wall to stay
out of the ... the river and that bank meanders so much. It's not like you can have some
wall and then natural slope and wall. It's just safer to have it all with wall there, from
just north of Kimball down through the, uh, area of the bridge. Sidewalk continuity, just
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wanted to mention real quick, these are some examples. So one, right there at the park
intersection, another, uh, where that student or person is standing, uh, between Cliff
Apartments and Mayflower. You can see the worn down paths. There's an example of
where they're... people are already using it and ... we made a decision to show sidewalk
there as part of the project to better accommodate pedestrians. Did ... we talked about it a
little bit before but I wanted to just show, uh, another reason why we would want to have
the continuity. We talked about the challenges of keeping the trail all on the west side
and why we have to have that jog between Foster and the interstate, um, but... the... white
lines that run along the corridor are the sidewalks that we're proposing. So watch those.
I just wanted to show you if we didn't have sidewalks, say, north of Mayflower, and that
disappears, if you follow the purple line you can see, it just breaks it up that much more if
you were someone that was on the east side following a sidewalk and you wanted to be
able to ... not have to jog back and forth throughout so ... there's an example of why we
wanted to have sidewalks on both sides as much as possible. Just to provide better
continuity through there where we can. Recommendations are, again, maintain the ... the
sections that we've talked about before, um, the unsignalized crosswalk at Mayflower,
Cambus would operate as it does currently, uh ... we're just at the edge of where the 35-
mile -an-hour speed limit would start to transition to the 25- mile -an-hour, um ... the 51-
foot curb -to -curb is just if you have the four, uh, 12 -foot lanes and three feet of curb and
gutter... on either side. And the median varies through there. As we transition to park,
uh, just want to point out you can really start to see where having the lower elevations,
uh, will start to bring in the footprint. It's already tight though there, but we are able to...
we ... even when we laid it out, we ... we jogged the alignment of Dubuque Street a ... just a
handful of feet to the west, towards the river... already, but just by lowering the elevation
following your guidance, it's ... made quite a bit of difference with impacts along ... along
the bluff in particular through there. This is just a different view of it. Um, you can see
where there's that meander along the, uh, the riverbank and why we would not have an
opportunity to have some without a wall and ... and we just don't have the room to have
any kind of slope through there. We have to have a retaining wall to stay out of the river.
Dobyns/ But it'll be a four to one slope on the east side?
Pearson/ Yes, unless there ... unless we get in there and somebody wants us to minimize it
further. There's always the option to tighten it up, but you start to get a little bit of a
challenge if you have to ... maintain that, mow it, whatever, and ... and we don't want to
use walls where we don't have to.
Dobyns/ But by someone you mean someone who likes trees. I mean...
Pearson/ Whomever it might be.
Dobyns/ Yeah, okay. I mean...
Pearson/ Whoever the property owner is along there.
Dobyns/ All right.
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Pearson/ And then this is just a cross - section, again, uh, this is near 12 Bella Vista, so just south
of Park Road. Um, you can see ... if I can get this on ... so there's ... the NEPA alternative,
500- plus -one. There's how much we've lowered it. We've come in just about seven feet
horizontally, just by lowering it, and we've lowered it...at that point by, also by about six
or seven feet there, uh, in the elevation of the street. And that's at this location right here.
And it does vary a little bit if...it'd be a little bit different down here and it'd be a little bit
as you get... different, as you get up towards Kimball, but... it's made quite a difference
through there, just by lowering that elevation with the, uh, the footprint of the project.
Dobyns/ Happy Arbor Day!
Pearson/ This is just another ex ... uh, just south of that location where you start to see the
introduction of the right turn lane that would go from southbound Dubuque to Park Road.
And there again you can see where, uh, the change in... in, from what was proposed to
what we're at currently is roughly six feet just in elevation there. And you can see how
much it's come in. Again, keeping the slopes consistent on the outside and simply
lowering the roadway. Uh, this is ... this, through this section, this is where the transition
would happen to 25- miles - per -hour, um, but we're keeping 12 -foot lanes through this
until we get to the intersection. Uh, you've still got the same parkway, the same cross -
section through there, eight -foot sidewalks on the easterly side and... and the 10 -foot
multi -use path on the west. Uh, at Park and Dubuque, uh, this is still following that urban
section. We don't have the median anymore through this stretch. Uh, everything that
we've done to date, including the entire NEPA study, had the, uh, the right turn lane and
southbound Dubuque in there and the five lanes on the bridge. So two westbound, three
eastbound. Um, again, we've lowered the elevation per your direction, and ... and it
changes too with the lower elevation of the bridge. So that's... combined really reduced
the impact of the, uh, construction limits through that stretch. Uh, I did want to point out
...I think this is the one ... yeah, this is just a ... same view but, uh, when we're talking
about the turn lane, one thing I want you to keep in mind is the impact of the turn lane
has no bearing on the eastside, uh, the curb, if you will, of the northbound lanes. So the
right lane ... just takes up this area that right now is occupied by the intersection and the
bridge abutment, so that ... if we dropped that right turn lane, it doesn't influence anything
on the eastern edge of the footprint. The northbound lanes are following that same line
where they're at today, just a couple three feet over to the west. We've just shifted the
alignment over, but if you ... have the turn lane, it really doesn't ... do anything to the east
side of Dubuque Street through that stretch, so ... I just wanted to make sure we pointed
that out.
Dobyns/ Is there still a plan to have a little bit of green? I... at the normal levels of the Iowa
River, whatever that is. Um... is there still a plan to have some green to soften the
contrast from the wall to the water?
Pearson/ Are you talking between the wall and the bank?
Dobyns/ Right, on the west side.
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Pearson/ On the west side?
Dobyns/ On the west side of Dubuque Street, will there be...
Pearson/ (both talking) ...through this (both talking)
Dobyns/ ... east side of the river, the west side of Dubuque Street.
Pearson/ Gotcha! Through this strip.
Dobyns/ ...there is going to be...
Pearson/ There's even some... some opportunities, perhaps, uh, when we look at the abutment for
the bridge on the east side, there has been some talk, but right now we haven't done
anything with it yet, but ... there would be potential to also have trail follow along the foot
of the wall, on the bottom, so you'd have ... you could have trail on the top and trail on the
bottom, and yeah, we can green up that space through there.
Dobyns/ Even with a right turn lane?
Pearson/ Yes! I mean, when you get ... does this have the ... it's going ... it's going to vary there,
where you've got the right turn lane you can see already where the bank is and ... the rip -
rap here, but I mean there's abutment there today. So we'd have some bank stabilization
but ... on top of that, before you get to the wall, we could have... potentially either trail
and /or some greenery in there. I'm not the guy designing the wall so I'm not going to
guarantee you what I'm going to plant there because it might intrude on the wall and
complicate things, but ... there are some ... there are certainly things we can do, and the
aesthetics of the project is something that we're going to get into in the spring.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Pearson/ This is the, uh, cross - section that would be just south as we're starting to tie back into
the existing street. You can see there's very minimal difference between the elevations
as we finish the project as you're climbing the hill to get towards Church. Uh, we did
want to talk a little bit about traffic operations, cause I know that's a... of keen interest,
um ... and we ... in the memo that you got today, uh, we ... we tried to address those
questions from a traffic perspective about the operations of the intersection, and so from
the different questions that we had heard at previous meetings, wanted to look at, um, is
there a need for a right turn lane, from a traffic perspective, on ... on the southbound
Dubuque Street. And so ... the discussion really is ... is regarding the level of service or
the delay that a driver would experience, um, in this case in the morning. In the
afternoon it's not an issue because folks are heading northbound on Dubuque Street, or
during events they're... they're heading back out to the interstate or points north, but in
the morning, um, they do experience delays there, and if you don't ... if you don't have the
right turn lane, um ... we talk about different levels of service, but know that level of
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service A is free flowing conditions, uh, level of service F would be you feel like you're
sitting at the light forever, one minute, two minutes, three minutes, however long, and
then there's gradiations in between. Um, generally through a stretch like this in a city
like Iowa City, we try to achieve level of service C, which would be maybe delays
approaching 30 seconds or less through... through the intersection as you're waiting there.
Um, today without the right turn lane in the morning, the delays are upwards of three to
four minutes. Um, there ... it's not an issue in the afternoon, as far as southbound
Dubuque Street is concerned, but in the morning, there are some considerable waits. If
that right turn lane is available for drivers to use, that would lower the delays
considerably, uh, through that stretch.
Throgmorton/ Mark.
Pearson/ Yes!
Throgmorton/ Do you know what the number of persons per car is?
Pearson/ Is it... in the model, is it ... I don't think we have a specific. It's really based off the
counts and when you do the traffic counts, you don't capture how many people are
actually in the vehicle.
Throgmorton/ Yeah...
Pearson/ I mean I'm ... honestly...
Throgmorton/ Maybe John or someone else at the MPO knows what the national average is and
what the local average is. I'm guessing 1.9 (both talking) or thereabouts, I don't know.
Yapp/ Actually we ... it's been several years since we checked that, Jim, but the last time we did
locally, did some sampling, it was 1.1 or slightly below. So in other words every tenth
car had two people in it. Otherwise it was one person per car.
Throgmorton/ Right, so what would happen if we got the rate up to like, I mean, the average up
to like 1.3 instead of 1.1. You ... you wouldn't have the traffic delays!
Yapp/ Yeah. I guess all I'm telling you is last time we checked it, it was ... it was really low in
terms of...
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Yapp/ ...multiple occupants per vehicle.
Pearson/ And I don't disagree with you that if... if you were able to raise the, uh, the average,
that it would be better off. Completely onboard with that, but from what we have, the
vehicles today ... not assuming those changes, that's what the analysis was showing.
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Throgmorton/ One other question.
Pearson/ Sure!
Throgmorton/ Could you... could you tell us a little bit about induced demand. In other words
you increase capacity...
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ ...by adding turn lanes, etc. Does that not have the effect of attracting more traffic
and then over time resulting in further traffic congestion?
Pearson/ Right. Um, I think Rick has a couple of examples of where that hasn't been the case
with projects in town, that if he wants to speak to that I'll let him, but I will say, um...
well, do you want to...
Fosse/ Sure!
Pearson/ I know you got a couple of examples where...
Fosse/ Yeah, that's not been our experience in ... in other locations where we've done
improvements in Iowa City. Two examples are, uh, Mormon Trek, up by the Ford dealer
and then also Dodge Street, uh, in the north Dodge corridor are two examples where
we've either seen, um, vehicle volumes hold steady or drop ... after the project. So we've
not seen an induced demand component.
Pearson/ And the other point that I wanted to make was we're not adding additional capacity in
terms of travel lanes at all on Dubuque Street or on Park Road. It's strictly to help that
intersection operate better...
Throgmorton/ Right.
Pearson/ ...um, in the morning and in the afternoon.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Pearson/ Uh, one of the other questions you had was how many lanes does eastbound Park really
need? Uh, today in the afternoon it's an issue with folks wanting to ... commuters
especially, and during events, making the turn from eastbound Park to northbound
Dubuque. Um, with the two lanes that are there today, if you want to make a right turn,
you get stuck behind ... well, actually today it's one right turn, one left turn. So, what
happens though if you, um ... actually, let me take a step back, cause what we did was we
looked at two scenarios... based on some of the conversations that we'd had with you
previously. We looked at one scenario that had two lanes ... one dedicated left turn and
one lane that would share the left and the right. Okay? And then we looked at a second
scenario that provided two left turns and a separate dedicated right turn. So two lanes
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and three lanes. Um, today there are some considerable delays on eastbound Park in the
afternoon. Uh, if you did the two lane scenario where one of the lanes shared left and
right turns, it improved, uh, but you... for that movement, you might go from a delay of
three minutes down to around one minute, and if you wanted to make that better... so
today the existing traffic, it's a delay of about three minutes for folks waiting to make
that left -hand turn. If you add half a turn lane, if you will, because you're sharing the left
and the right, that helps bring the delay down on ... on, uh, Park Road. It still technically
fails in that your delays are a minute or more, but it is better. Um, but we feel that the
three -lane option is more optimal because it brings down delays even further, uh, because
you've got two dedicated left turns and one for right. So the folks who want to turn right
don't have to wait for the left -hand turns and they're not getting in the way, if you will, of
folks trying to turn left onto Dubuque Street. So ... it improves things overall if you do
the shared left/right, but not to the extent that dual lefts would with a separate right turn.
And we can talk about that more after you have a chance to read the memo if there's
other questions. Uh, the other question we looked at is how many westbound lanes
should Dubuque ... or should Park Road have? Um, the thing to keep in mind with Park
Road westbound is there's really not much of a capacity issue there right now. Um, one
lane could function okay, but it's not optimal, uh, for a couple reasons. One, um, the
Cambus stop that is on the bridge is there currently, and with two lanes folks can operate
around the bus, um, but the bus has ... that stop has been there for a number of years. It
serves Mayflower in off -peak periods. It's the closest bus, uh, that would get out to
Mayflower for students that are trying to get out there, um, if we only had one lane, we
would probably consider moving the Cambus stop to the west, off the bridge. Otherwise
you're creating a different delay by having that blus ... the bus block the lane. Uh, two
lanes is also more optimal for, uh, folks who are looking to turn right from south down
... southbound Dubuque and making the left turn from northbound Dubuque towards
Park, in that they would each have a receiving lane. We'll never get it so that they're
perfectly synchronized making that movement at the same time, but what it does is it
closes that gap or that queue so that you're a little bit more comfortable knowing that you
have a lane, you're making that turn closer in space then you would if you only had one
lane for each of you to turn into. Um, so our... our recommendation would be to still
have the two westbound lanes. Also, from an incident standpoint, if there was a vehicle,
a crash or something there, two lanes gives you a little bit of wiggle room to get around
the situation while it clears and not back everything up. One lane, you're basically
shutting it down. And from more of a ... a, uh ... non-traffic perspective, keep in mind that
this bridge is usually ... is designed to last for 75 years so ... it's not like we get a chance to
do a do -over. Those ... once we set those ribs for the arch in place, there's not a chance to
widen it. So ... keep that in mind as you're ... as you're deliberating. Uh, but through this
area we're ... we recommend again 12 -foot lanes, the same curb and gutter that we've
talked about, um ... same parkways, same sidewalk widths, urn ... we recommend adding
the right turn onto... from southbound Dubuque onto Park, and also um... as we get into
the bridge, having the three eastbound lanes and the two westbound. Um ... couple things
to mention about the bridge, and I know we've talked about it previously is that in the
current design concept we do have, uh, multiple opportunities to get across Park Road,
either at grade with a pedestrian crossing, or below - grade, which are the yellow loops that
would go under... or sorry, the gray loops that would go underneath the bridge and wrap
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around. So that if someone was on the trail and they didn't want to have to cross Park
Road, they could pass underneath the bridge, wrap around and... and uh, continue on the
bridge, much like they do maybe at Iowa Avenue bridge today where you have that
underpass underneath the bridge for bikes and peds. This is just a ... a elevation view of
the bridge, um, so you can kind of get a better picture of how the arch passes through the,
uh, the deck of the bridge and ... and ties in. And then this is a cross - section that just
shows, uh, the lane configuration with the eastbound lanes here and the westbound lanes
over here with 10 -foot sidewalks on either side. Right now we're showing `em on the
outside of the, uh, the rib of the arch.
Throgmorton/ Do you have any estimate as to the difference in cost for constructing the bridge...
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ ... if it was only four lanes instead of five?
Pearson/ Uh, we have some ... yeah, and...and of course it's not to as much detail as we might
like since where we're at in the design.
Throgmorton/ Sure.
Pearson/ Uh, really you ... you save maybe $300,000, uh, by ... by eliminating that one lane. And
that's because really what you're saving is concrete on the deck. The arch ribs, the
foundations are all pretty much the same size, regardless of four lanes versus five. So
you do save a little bit of money with the, uh, with the... with... with the reduction of the
lane, but not ... it's not a one -to -one ratio, if you will. Uh, we talked about the Park Road
bridge a moment ago, but again, keeping the, uh, adding that eastbound lane so that you
have the dual lefts, and the single right turn lane, um ... keeping Cambus where it operates
today, and it does just provide, um, especially with those westbound lanes, if you keep
the two lanes, it gives you some wiggle room with, uh, incident management, if there's
something that's going on, um, more ... more room for events, for folks to be able to get to
Hancher, to City Park, um, and for commuters. And then traveling from Park Road to the
west, uh, that's where we transition from five lanes down to three in the vicinity of City
Park, so the outside lane westbound would drop into the, uh, entrance to Lower City
Park, and if you were coming out of Hancher, you would be basically driving into that
outside lane as you're turning out of Hancher. That's where the transition happens. Uh,
we have eight -foot sidewalk on the ... southside, following the eastbound lanes, and we
have, uh, a six -foot sidewalk on the, uh, northern side of the street.
Dobyns/ For new Hancher, is the ... uh, egress in and out going to be similar to the old Hancher
(both talking)
Pearson/ Sort of. This driveway is staying put, but this one is going away, and so what you have
is a loop like that that ties in.
Dobyns/ Okay.
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Pearson/ And then the other thing to keep in mind is their loading facility is somewhere right in
here. They ... they flipped the building 180 degrees so that the loading docks are now up
against Park Road, whereas before they're down... on the, kind of the south... westerly
side of the building. So you'd come off of Riverside. So, uh, that's a good reason also to
have that center turn lane, cause it will accommodate the trucks that will be going into the
loading facility, as well as folks who are going to Hancher for an event, or for folks who
use it as a commuter lot, uh, during the work week. And this is just what the five lane,
uh, section would look like, uh, between the bridge and ... the Lower City Park entrance,
and then ... this would be, um, a center turn lane, when it's down to three lanes, so that
you ... you're able to turn, um, left into City Park, or if you ... if you're traveling
westbound and you want to get into Hancher you can turn left ... more safely than you can
today. More better, if you will (laughter)
Payne/ Will that go all the way to Riverside?
Pearson/ (both talking) ...all the way to Riverside. And then it would drop ... at Riverside it
would taper back down to the two lanes that are there today. As you're going west. And
I think I just summarized all the recommendations for that stretch, but ... um, I ... would
note that through this area, uh, we were suggesting a 12 -foot center turn lane and 11 -foot
travel lanes. Um, on the outside, uh, again with the curb and gutter that we've talked
about, cause it is a narrow footprint through there between the University property and
the park and we want to make sure we stay out of the park and the University as much as
we can and ... kind of strike that balance through there. So, next steps, lots of discussion I
imagine about the different elements, uh, but, um ... following that discussion, completing
the conceptual design phase, cause what we'll need to do eventually is lock that down so
we can refine the concept and submit the concept to the DOT for review, uh, pending
their approval we'll also during the spring dive into some of the aesthetics and
landscaping so we can talk about the look and feel of the project in the corridor, how it
might tie into Hancher, how it ties in with the parks along the river, and those amenities,
uh, and then begin preliminary and final design. All during that time, of course,
continued stakeholder coordination. If we need to meet with residents, neighborhood
associations; the University coordination will be ongoing. Opportunities to come back
and have a discussion with you about where we're at with the project and ... and what's
happening with that. So ... any questions?
Hayek/ (mumbled) Mark.
Pearson/ I hope I didn't compress it too much, but I did want to make sure we got through
everything, and there was a lot to go through tonight. So I'm sorry if I rushed anything.
Mims/ Uh, I have a question about the slideshow. Is that on the web site now or ... is this exact
one on there?
Pearson/ It's not yet, but it will be within the next day or so.
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Karr / And it will also be permanently archived with this meeting.
Mims/ Okay.
Pearson/ But yeah, we ... we usually post everything within a day or two of the event having
taken place, so the things that we presented at the pre- design meeting, for instance, are
available on the web site. All our past meetings that we've had; all those things are
available on the web site for the project. Yeah, there's a lot on the web site. You should
go check it out! (laughs)
Mims/ Yeah, I have!
Hayek/ Why ... why doesn't... whether it's you, Mark, or staff, walk us through what you
envision for next week. Next ... next week's meeting.
Pearson/ I'll leave that guidance to Rick.
Fosse / What we want to do is to try and reach a consensus on... on what you would like for the
design elements, uh, throughout the corridor here. And we can ... we can begin that
discussion tonight depending on the amount of time that we have remaining and uh, I
want to get an idea on where you want to dig deeper and want more information so ... so
that we can prepare that for next week. Uh, ideally we'll ... we'll land on our design
elements next week so that we can get that packaged up and ... and off to the DOT and...
and I do want to preface that, uh, in the areas ... in here where we're recommending the
foot and a half curb and gutter section versus the standard two and a half, or where we are
recommending 11 -foot lanes versus 12 -foot lanes, those would be dependent upon the
DOT's approval of those concepts. Just us saying that we want them, uh, is not enough
to get them. We need to justify that to the ... to the DOT. Um, so back to your question...
the ... I guess I'll put a question back to you — do you want this back on the work session a
week from tonight for more in -depth discussion, uh, before we put something on the ... the
formal agenda? I would expect that we do.
Hayek/ Well, we're out of time this evening. I mean, we've got... 15 minutes left, if we bump
everything else and take it up after the formal. Um, otherwise we're out of time right
now. And we haven't gotten into any deliberations.
Fosse/ Okay. One thing I would like to do yet tonight if...if you can spare a couple minutes
is ... is Dave Ricketts is here and uh, he can articulate to you the ... about the existing
Cambus stops on the bridge and their importance of the existing locations. Um, Dave's
kind of hard to catch so I'd like to hear from him while he's here (laughter)
Hayek/ That's fine!
Dobyns/ ... including tonight, yeah! (laughs)
Throgmorton/ Well, there he is! (laughter)
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Hayek/ Hey, Dave!
Ricketts/ (mumbled) Council, thank you very much. I don't want to be the person to spend your
last 15 minutes (laughter) Uh, University, uh, thanks the staff and the Council for letting
us participate. It's been very helpful. We have a great deal of interest in this project, as
you know. It's not just Mayflower. It's the gateway to the University, one of the
gateways, but probably the most important, and so we have a very high interest. We
generally support staff recommendations. I might point out to Jim, my friend, that
Cambus carries more than 1.1 people per trip (laughter) and I personally contribute to the
.1 by carpooling but uh... so our interest, I won't go through all the details. We do
support virtually all the suggestions of...of staff tonight. I think Rick asked me to speak
about the fifth lane, is that correct? So the fifth lane on the bridge is not just about
Cambus. It's as you make that turn, you stay in two lanes all the way up until Riverside
Drive. And if you go to one lane on the bridge, you essentially narrow, and then you
reopen. So we have a 1,000 space parking lot at Hancher. Then you make the left hand
turn to Riverside, which is another gateway to the campus cause you go down Riverside
Drive and come up either Newton Road or Grand Avenue, and then you go further to
Rocky Shore Drive and come up on Hawkins Drive. So for the University, it is a
extraordinary entrance and I'll speak from 1993 flood, I was here for that, and 2008 and
even last spring when it shut down, but in 2008 if you recall, I was one of those people
that was watching the whole picture, and we lost all the entrances to the city. We were
down to almost one or two ways into town. You're making this one of the ways in the
town that can survive a flood, except for extreme cases. So that capacity is important, not
just for every day activity, but for those events and then the obvious is Mayflower. We
have 1,000 people that live there. It's, uh, we can't afford to lose it. 2008 we were lucky
— it was summer. 1993, it wasn't summer. That's really a disaster for us. We don't have
a place we can move 1,000 students to, so keeping that open, keeping it functioning is
important. That's not got anything to do with the fifth lane on the bridge, but I wanted to
say that. So ... maybe better if I came back next time when you have more time, cause I
know you're trying to (both talking)
Hayek/ Well, you know, (mumbled) you know what we're gonna ... we'll take up the balance of
our work session after the formal, I think, unless ... trim up here in a couple of minutes but
I don't want to cut you off, Dave, so if there's more information to present from the
University's perspective...
Ricketts/ Well the east side sidewalk is very important to us. I think very important. If you look
very closely at traffic analysis, the pedestrian crossing at Mayflower isn't necessarily
served by a cross light, crosswalk light, because the way people don't use `em correctly.
They don't wait. They'll push the button, they'll cross at the wrong time. The eastside
sidewalk is probably the way they'll use. Then they get down to a controlled
intersection. Where you going to be in a controlled intersection anyway? At Park Road.
I think that's safer. Some students will continue to cross at Mayflower. There will be
fewer of them. I think you run the risk of accidents because... (mumbled) talked to your
traffic analysis people, they'll tell ya that those kinds of crosswalks lead to rear -end
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accidents, whereas they go down the east side sidewalk, they get to a controlled
intersection, it's safer. I think the east side sidewalk is a strong safety concern for us.
Throgmorton/ Dave, could I follow up on that.
Ricketts/ Sure.
Throgmorton/ I ... I understand what you're saying — it's important to ... to the University to have
an east side sidewalk. Are you referring to the, uh, the part of the road that runs from
Mayflower to Park Road? That's the part that really matters to you, right?
Ricketts/ Yes. To the University yes.
Throgmorton/ And... and does it matter to you, to the University that is, whether it would be five
feet wide or six or ... even something larger? Does it have to be a multi - purpose necess...
well, let me just leave it at that. Does it matter to the University whether it's more than
five feet wide?
Ricketts/ It will be used as a multi - purpose sidewalk.
Throgmorton/ Does it matter to the University if it would be more than five feet wide?
Ricketts/ I don't know. I think the trail on the other side needs to be 10 feet. I support that
completely. I think it just needs to be wide enough so that people can use it and use it
safely, and I wouldn't sit here and advocate for a specific width on the east side. We do
want a sidewalk. As someone who also clears sidewalks, the use of that brush or the
plow, whatever it is, that width is important cause if it's a five -foot wide sidewalk and
your brush is six feet wide, you're going to have all brown up and down the edges when
spring comes along. But I don't think we have a specific strong point about how wide it
is.
Throgmorton/ Thanks.
Hayek/ Dave, we appreciate the University's perspective (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, thank you (both talking)
Hayek/ It's obviously an important one here.
Mims/ Thank you.
Payne/ Thanks!
Fosse/ So at this point, um, perhaps we just open it up and find out what ... what your primary
questions are, and where you want to talk in additional detail, and we'll prepare for that
for next week.
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Throgmorton/ I can tell you a couple topics that I ... I think are pretty clearly on my mind. One
has to do with the design speed from, either from Mayflower south or from Foster Road
south.
Fosse/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ I'm not persuaded about the 35- mile -an-hour part, and ... and the other part has to
do with, uh, the sidewalk on the east side. I'm not persuaded that a sidewalk is needed
from Mayflower north on the east side. I'm feeling persuaded about ... (mumbled) south
of Mayflower on the east side. Uh, those are two things definitely on my mind.
Fosse/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ I don't know about others. I don't know what y'all are thinking.
Fosse/ Okay. Others?
Mims/ I'm still concerned about the, um, I mean, I've always been supportive of the two
westbound lanes on the bridge. I'm not convinced of the three eastbound lanes on the
bridge.
Throgmorton/ Yeah me too.
Mims/ Um, I just... if... if you're sitting, if you've got two eastbound lanes on that bridge and that
right -hand lane can go right or left, and you're stopped there and you're saying, well, but
you can't make that right turn on red because you've got somebody in front of you that
wants to turn left, any time I've gone through that intersection, you don't get a whole lot
of people turning right on red because you have so much southbound traffic on Dubuque
anyways, and so...
Payne/ Depends what time of day it is.
Mims/ Right, but I think the ... the time of day where you `are going to get the most backed up,'
because you got so much traffic going out...
Payne/ Doesn't matter if there's only two cars there and you're the second one.
Mims/ No, I know!
Payne/ You're not gonna turn! (laughs)
Mims / Right but ... but you still have a lot of intersections in this town and other place, maybe
more other places, where you have no right turn on red. I mean ... there are intersections
where that's ... the mode for ... for whatever reason. I guess I ... you know, the fact that
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we're not saving a ton of money is, you know, maybe an issue to go ahead and do it, but
I'm just still not convinced on that third eastbound lane.
Payne/ 1100% am. I mean, you ... when you said the 30 seconds is what you think people should
wait, it's like ... there's lots of places where it's way more than 30 seconds now, and if it's
four minutes, I mean, that's huge to reduce that to 30 seconds.
Dickens/ There's even times later at night going eastbound on the bridge that you wait, or you
don't get through the intersection. And...
Payne/ In one light! Yeah, it might take four lights. (laughs)
Mims/ But because you're turning left. Well yeah, but now if you've got two lanes that can turn
left, that's going to make all the difference in the world!
Dickens/ Two left and one straight. I think we need five lanes there.
Payne/ I do too. Think the traffic count's convinced of that.
Mims / And I'm with Jim on the east side sidewalk, I mean, I'm ... going north from Mayflower,
I'm not convinced we need that either. But...
Fosse / What I can share with you on the sidewalks is over the years where we have decided not
to put in a sidewalk is a concession as part of implementing a difficult project we've...
over time usually regretted that decision and ... and implemented the sidewalk later, and I
can give you three examples of that. Uh, one is Highway 1, uh, west to Riverside Drive.
We ... we're just finishing up that sidewalk that we retrofitted in there. Uh, another one is
north Dubuque Road. Uh, we just retrofitted that sidewalk with our sidewalk in -fill
project, and the third is actually in this corridor, and that is just north of Foster Road on
the ... on the west side. You know, that wasn't very long ago, but yeah, sure wished that
we had put the wall back where we could get the trail through there now so that we're not
jumping back and forth from one side to the other. So ... over time, we typically regret
those decisions and ... and over time they ... they usually end up going in.
Dickens/ I just have one thing, question on narrowing the street as you get closer to the
intersection. Does that naturally calm the speeds? I know you want to have it a certain
width for the bridge, or for the buses and everything, but is that consideration of
naturally, without changing the speed limit, you actually slow down when it gets tighter.
Fosse/ You're talking about near ... near the intersections?
Dickens / Right.
Fosse/ Um ... we've not tried that, just in the vicinity of an intersection, to see if that's effective,
but I will say that, uh, when you're accommodating turning movements, and
you ... you've got a hole to hit on the lane you're going into, that's where that ... thatlane
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width is important, especially if you're d ... driving a long, um, unarticulated wide vehicle
like a bus.
Bramel/ Rick, I would ... I would say, um, one thing concerning the east side sidewalk, I think it's
definitely necessary between Mayflower and, uh, Park Road, but I think it's also
necessary north of that, and I think we're on track with that already, but I know there's
residences along, um, along the road there that access that, and I know there's a lot of
students who live, um, north of B ... B'Jaysville Lane, which'd be, uh, just right of, uh,
Dubuque Street that, uh, they ... they use that too. They walk that every day. So, um, IA
think that should stay, frankly. I think it will be utilized.
Throgmorton/ Why ... why could that, um, the walkway on the east side, south of Mayflower, not
be designed ... why couldn't it be designed explicitly for pedestrians and ... and not for
bicyclists, and you know, they're... depending on the material and change in, I don't
know, grades or whatever on it, it could be done, right? So w ... why not do that?
Fosse/ Well, if...if you introduce grade changes that would discourage bicycles (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, right, that's what I mean!
Fosse/ Yeah, that would most likely violate the ADA regs for the sidewalk itself. So I don't
think that's a tool that's available to us. So then, uh, it comes down to width. If ..if you
build it so narrow that bicycles will ... will be uncomfortable using it, um ... I ... I wouldn't
necessarily rely on that being effective.
Dobyns/ The ... Mark, when you showed us the overhead map of the, uh, portion ... I'm thinking
of the sidewalk on the east side of Dubuque, between Mayflower and Park Road. Um...
you had a sidewalk in there, in that schematic that you put up, on the eastside. And
(mumbled) remember that orange line that would potentially impact the tree slope, that
included... some east sidewalk, did it not?
Pearson/ Where ... whi ... which one?
Dobyns/ Um ... I think your ... (several talking)
Pearson/ Is it the Kimball (both talking) Park to Kimball stretch or were you thinking about (both
talking)
Dobyns/ ...Kimball to Park, look at Kimball to Park.
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Dobyns/ So that includes a sidewalk?
Pearson/ Correct. That is...
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Dobyns/ And what is the width of the sidewalk on the east side of there from Kimball to Park?
Pearson/ Right there that's an eight -foot sidewalk that we're showing.
Dobyns/ And if you put an eight foot sidewalk, and what you showed there, the four to one
slope, that dark orange line is the impact zone under the trees.
Pearson/ Correct. So you might get to see a little bit better ... there, and so you're going from
yellow to green in this instance.
Dobyns/ I'm trying to get a sense what's the ... and if we put in a ... a right turning lane on
southbound, it's going to go toward the river anyway.
Pearson/ Correct.
Dobyns/ So that schematic still will be static.
Pearson/ Yes.
Dobyns/ I guess I'm trying to understand... um, what's the negative impact of an eastside
sidewalk (both talking) given what we see now, cause I was worried about the tree slope,
but I'm not seeing that now. And so I'm just trying to get a sense what's the ... what's the
negative impact.
Fosse / What you can see in this drawing here is ... well let me use the mouse. The current, uh,
back of the existing sidewalk is here and that matches into the existing grade. The new
grade will be higher, so the fill will go out to this green line here. So, I ... I think where
Jim is going with this is if that is narrowed from eight to five, for instance, you would
move this green line in three feet.
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Fosse/ Now whether or not (both talking) make the difference on ... on saving some trees or not, I
don't know. There are ... there are other techniques we can use too if...if we come across
special trees of interest we can use some retaining wall wells around (both talking)
Dobyns/ So we're concerned about an eight foot, or we're concerned about entire, I mean ... are
you guys happier with a five foot sidewalk given that or...
Throgmorton/ You talking about the area ... you talking about south of Mayflower, right, on the
east side.
Dobyns/ Right, south of Mayflower; Mayflower to Kimball; Kimball to Park.
Mims/ Well I think ... I think if... if it's going to be there, I think it needs to be wide enough that it
can be cleaned efficiently.
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Dobyns/ Yeah, five foot. Uh huh.
Mims/ Well I think it sounds like six foot.
Dobyns/ Six foot, okay. Yeah, that's machine.
Mims/ Yeah, I mean, so if... if you're going to do it, I think that needs to be done. It's going to
be efficient long -term.
Dobyns/ Okay. I thought I heard you guys say no sidewalks, uh...
Mims/ No, I think there definitely needs to be from ... from Melrose, or from Mayflower down.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ But not Mayflower north.
Dobyns/ Yeah, okay, yeah.
Mims/ I think that's debatable.
Dobyns/ Yeah, got it. Okay, thank you!
Hayek/ So let's uh ... let's (both talking)
Fosse/ ...just going to follow up quickly on Rick's question about the green space between the
wall and the river. The ... the plan is to (noises in background) that's part of the scour
protection for the wall. So there will be some, uh, some soil in that area.
Dobyns/ Okay, thank you.
Hayek/ So I ... I just want to make two comments, uh, and then ... and then let's break the work
session so we can set up for the ... for the formal, and ... they are this. Um, you know, this
is a ... a 50 to 75 or more year decision by this Council and ... and um, and we need to keep
in mind that this ... that what we decide will ... will in ... will influence that area for ... for
many decades to come and, second point is this that you know, it...it is awfully tempting
for us to play designer on this. Um, and I get that this is a signature project. I get that we
are looking at these details and ... and you know, at a level of scrutiny not seen in 19 or 20
years, um, and ... and that's appropriate, but I think we also need to keep in mind that
between the City, the University, our consultants and others who have been involved,
there is a plethora of professionals who have come to us with, uh, with a set of
recommendations that have been vetted ad nauseam over a period of a long time, um,
and ... and we need to get the critical elements of this project right, but I would ... but if we
get into too much analysis as a ... as an elected body, it's going to be hard for us to reach a
decision, um, and ... and we need to do so, and I hope we can focus on the ... the most
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important elements and have some faith in the professionals who are working with us.
So ... that's that. It's 20 of which is when we usually disband. I thank you for all being
here and, uh, we'll come back at 7:00.
Fosse/ Thank you!
(BREAK FOR FORMAL MEETING)
Information Packets:
Hayek/ Okay. See if I can find the work session here. The Council, uh ... where we left off was,
uh, just prior to the Info Packet discussion. So why don't we take those three Info
Packets up. The first one is from March 6t'. Okay. The next one is from March 13th
Throgmorton/ With regard to IP #2, secure storage services. Uh, Geoff s memo concerning that
topic. I know that Amanda Van Horne spoke about it a few minutes ago. So the question
she basically raises, or at least my interpretation of it is ... what are the specific op...
barriers to the City partnering with Trinity? Trinity wants to commit some energy, uh,
and probably volunteers. I don't know what all, uh ... they want to contribute to this. And
we were looking for a partner.
Fruin/ Uh, my impression, or at least my communications with Amanda, which were primarily
over email, um, and ... and just to be clear, they didn't formally respond. I just had some
separate conversations and it ended in an email. Um, but that they were generally
supportive as she represented today, that they evaluated their, uh, physical property and
did not find a workable solution, but they would be willing to, uh, be a part of a, you
know, the continuing dialogue. So, um, they didn't get into anything expressing, you
know, volunteer staffing or any other support. I think they just wanted to be a part of
the ... the discussion and my impression from that was, um, with the hope that there'd be
some other partners involved, that we would continue this discussion, and then be able to
bring them in. But I ... I have not followed up with Amanda, um, since the date of the
memo.
Throgmorton/ I ... I think it'd be helpful to at least follow up and have a conversation with her in
particular, and see where that goes. And if other... organizations need to be, uh, involved
and they don't show up, well, uh, so be it. But... at least we have one potential partner
who wants to contribute to this effort, and we ought to try to follow up on that to the
extent that we can.
Markus/ You know I ... Jim, I think one of the challenges is going to be the manpower to kind of
operate a facility like that. Um, the individuals that are going to use that storage are
going to want, you know, access at ... I would guess all times of day and night, and so
how are you going to staff that up? How's that going to be paid for? You know, it's one
thing to build a capital improvement. It's another thing to operate it. So I think that's
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one of the big challenges. And ... I think it would be difficult to do with volunteers, as
well, but ... I think there's some obstacles involved.
Botchway/ I guess my question is, where were we looking at it happening, or were we just
looking at finding a partner within the community to at least start the discussion of
finding a place for it to happen, or is ... are we saying that partner would have to house the
facility that we're talking or the storage that we're talking about for these services?
Markus/ I think realistically we were looking for any creative solution to address the issue. Uh,
we weren't, you know, uh, specifically defining an ... an area that it had to be. I think
obviously it has to be in proximity to the downtown.
Botchway/ Right.
Markus/ Uh, but ... I don't think we were hard in our definition of how that had to happen.
Botchway/ But to our point, even if we don't partner with Trinity...
Markus / Right.
Botchway/ ...um, does that preclude our involvement in the issue? I mean, we still...
Markus/ No, it doesn't! And ... and I think our RFP suggested that we would participate with
somebody else. I think going on our own though, and knowing the cost associated with,
uh, operations ... I think that's a real challenge! And we were really hoping that
potentially a Trinity or somebody would step forward, uh, and help staff it in a non - profit
way. So...
Mims/ I just wonder if there's also ... you know, if there's any more discussions on this,
and... and I know you've mentioned, you know, you'd think in general people are going
to want access to their stuff 24/7, is ... I mean, is there a way, um, potentially of doing this
where, you know ... here's the storage, but here's... here's the limitations on access, that
might make it more feasible for us and/or a partner to do something, where... there's
going to be certain hours of the day that it's not, you can't get into it.
Markus/ I think all of those options are open to us. Again though I think having a partnership
with a non - profit probably makes that more doable.
Mims/ Uh huh! Okay.
Hayek/ How bout the March 20th Info Packet?
Mims/ There were a number of items in here, um ... 7, 8 and 9 dealing with ... PILOT and, you
know, the movement of Von Maur and some of those tax issues and stuff and ... and the
articles, um, that couple of them that were in the Gazette, etc., and... in looking at that
and kind of reading through those articles, and there's lots and lots of details in there and
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...and I think there's a potential to have significant impact on Iowa City, just from the
standpoint of the University's involvement, um, with this, you know, with ... with the
PILOT agreement and obviously we have significant involvement with the University
and have a, you know, have had I think a very good working relationship with them and
certainly want to continue that, um, and in light of that in going through tremendous
amount of information, I thought those articles were ... were very well researched, I came
up with actually what ended up being a rather (laughs) significant list of questions. Um,
that with, uh, approval of at least four of us here from Council, um, I would like to give
to staff to get some answers back on, and it ... it'd take maybe a little bit of time, but I'm
also sure that staff has probably some ... has looked at some of these. I certainly know
Tom was quoted in one of the articles (mumbled) but just, you know, clarifying you
know for all of us the difference between PILOT agreements and property taxes and...
and why a PILOT agreement in a TIF district is any different than a PILOT agreement
not in a TIF district and what properties does the University have that are in Iowa City
that are in a TIF district and how are ... what kind of relationship do we have with them,
and how does that compare with their relationship with Coralville, and you know, does
the Board of Regents have a ... a consistent set of policies across all of the Regents'
institutions for how they develop PILOT agreements with all the various constituent
communities, um, that they might coordinate with, and if not ... maybe (laughs) we would
want to formally suggest that so we see some consistency, um ... just things about, you
know, one of the things that I looked at in that PILOT agreement was they came up with
this multiplier of 28,643 and, you know, what's the relevance of that and did they back
into it from a goal of a million dollars or something, I ... I mean I don't know. So those
are just kind of the nature of the questions because I think as we go forward, um, I think
we all have talked about and want to maintain the best possible working relationships we
can with the University and the other municipalities and the County, and when you start
looking at certain things and see what seem to be, um, significant discrepancies in the
way things are done in different places, then certainly what that brings to the surface is,
um, a lot of concerns, at least for me, and so, uh, I think it would behoove us to get
answers to some of these questions. So, um ... with approval of at least four members, I'd
like to give this to staff and ask them to put a little bit of time into getting us some
answers.
Hayek/ That's fine with me.
Botchway/ Yes.
Throgmorton/ It's okay with me.
Mims/ Okay.
Dobyns/ I was wondering if I could piggyback. I have a question about fairness of the PILOT
agreement, um, as well and I'd like to ... just one question, just piggyback on top of
Susan's.
Hayek/ Yeah, we can't discuss it, I mean, you can (both talking) either ask it now or submit it.
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Dobyns/ I'm going to email it, yeah.
Markus/ I think... any of you could always email a question to me if one comes up in your minds,
um, and ... and at some point we'll get the questions out and share `em with the entire
Council (both talking)
Mims/ Well maybe ... maybe what I'll do, I mean, I know we have to be careful of open meeting.
It'll get in the packet maybe next week, but without response, I would be happy to ... with
Eleanor's concurrence, to email `em to the rest of Council, but they can't respond to me,
but just so they have them before next week, so they can look at them before they might
submit more questions. Is that okay?
Dilkes/ What ... why don't you send them to Marian and we'll stick `em in the packet.
Mims/ Okay.
Hayek/ That's coming out in a couple days (several talking)
Mims/ Today... today's Tuesday; packet comes out Thursday. I ... my, yeah (laughs)
Markus/ Yeah, it's a quick turnaround!
Mims/ Yeah, it is! (laughs)
Botchway/ My other question is, um, kind of to Susan's point and also to Rick's, you know, if
there's a way ... is there like a deadline to submit questions, instead of you know
submitting them after the fact so we have kind of have the comprehensive one that goes
out in the packet? I mean, normally you...
Markus/ In ... in listening to some of the questions, I'll tell you I'm probably going to have to
reach out to the University to secure some of the information from them. So it's ... it,
the ... the answers are probably not going to be complete by your next meeting.
Mims/ Sure.
Markus/ Potentially by the 15th. So you'll have the questions, you'll have some time to get `em
to me, and I can add those to the list.
Botchway/ Okay. Never mind.
Hayek/ Anything else on the ... 20th? Want to do KXIC now or later?
Karr/ Your call!
Hayek/ Let's do it now.
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Payne/ I can do the 2nd or the 23`a
Throgmorton/ I can do the 16th or May 7th
Payne/ I'll do the 2nd then.
Karr/ Michelle the 2nd, okay.
Throgmorton/ 16th.
Karr/ 16th, Jim, okay.
Dickens/ I'll do the 9th
Karr/ Terry.
Botchway/ What's left?
Mims/ So what do you have open?
Karr/ Uh, I have 26th (several talking)
Hayek/ Tomorrow ... do we not have....
Botchway/ No, I'm the 26th
Karr/ you're the 26th.
Hayek/ Okay. Is April 23`d open?
Karr/ April 23`d is still open.
Hayek/ I'll take that.
Mims/ May 7th, is that one still open?
Karr / And May 7th is open.
Mims/ I'll take that one then. I haven't done one in a while.
Karr/ So Kingsley's got the 26th, April 2nd is Michelle. The 9th is Terry. The 16th is Jim. The
23`d Matt.
Hayek/ Yep.
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Karr / And the 71h is Susan.
Mims / Right. And remember those are 8:00!
Hayek/ Yes! (laughter)
Mims/ The new time (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ It's going to take us about six months to get used to that!
Botchway/ I hadn't changed it in my phone and that was going to be ... interesting! (laughter)
Hayek/ All right! Council time.
Council Time:
Payne/ Didn't we already do that?
Throgmorton/ Yeah, we did that. (laughter)
Dobyns/ Council time work session!
Meeting Schedule:
Hayek/ Meeting schedule. Pending work session topics.
Pending Work Session Topics:
Dobyns/ Number 8, discuss City related marijuana policies and potential legislative advocacy
positions. I don't... remember... that coming up, I mean, there's so much pending State
legislation at this point, I'm not sure why that might be relevant at the municipal level.
Markus/ I think Mr. Throgmorton (several talking) brought it up.
Dobyns/ Jim. Okay. Do you remember that ... I ... I'm just wondering. It just seems that...
Throgmorton/ Sorry, I must have been daydreaming. Which ... which is the (several talking)
Markus/ Marijuana enforcement.
Throgmorton/ Uh, and ... and what's your question?
Dobyns/ Well it's on the pending, topics to be scheduled, discuss City related marijuana policies
and potential legislative advocacy positions. Um ... I'm not sure why we're... should...
isn't that putting the cart before the horse? I mean, is ... isn't it at the State level right now
and...
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Throgmorton/ You know, I ... at the time I didn't say anything about leg... legislative... legislative
advocacy position. What I was trying to get us to do was have a discussion about
whether we might, through the City Manager, direct the Police Chief to have the officers
exercise their discretion differently with regard to possession and use of small quantities
of marijuana. That ... that's what I was trying to get at. I wasn't trying to say anything
whatsoever about State legislation.
Dobyns/ Okay! All right.
Markus/ I think ... I think as I recall, you asked for comment and the City Attorney responded,
and basically said ... the Police Chief works for the City Manager. The City Manager
works for the City Council, and so it was moving up and down. What we're trying to do
is determine what kind of an issue it is. Because I suspect this issue is born out of a
concern about how many people we arrest and potentially end up in the ... in the criminal
justice system, and how far they go in the criminal justice system, so we're going to try
and get those facts first.
Payne/ One of the things that I asked (both talking)
Markus/ ...see what kind of an issue it is at all.
Payne/ Piggybacking on Jim, I asked for to have ... kind of have ... if we could get a list
of...disproportionate minority contact that was...
Throgmorton/ Marijuana related.
Payne/ ...marijuana related, yeah.
Markus/ Yeah.
Payne/ Or just based upon ... and I don't even know if we have those statistics based upon race.
Markus/ I'm trying to think back about how they report on that sort of thing. We'll look at that
as a part of the ... the reporting mechanism, as well.
Hayek/ Well it's next to last on a long list ... so we'll have some time (laughs) and we'll see
what's going on in Des Moines anyway.
Markus/ Yeah, I ... generally I just want to caution the Council. I would not encourage Council to
give me, to give the Chief, to give his staff direction on how to use discretion. I think
that's a mistake.
Throgmorton/ And you said that last time.
Markus/ And I said that last time.
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Throgmorton/ Yeah. I ... I do...
Markus/ For your recollection. (laughter)
Throgmorton/ I do have a suggestion that, uh, perhaps, uh, would be helpful here. Uh, Kingsley
had suggested another, uh ... um, work session item having to do with issuing municipal
infractions in lieu of criminal charges.
Dilkes/ That memo's coming out this week.
Throgmorton/ Ah, I was thinking maybe the two could be combined, but I guess maybe (both
talking)
Dilkes/ No, I think they're different issues.
Markus/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ I only mention that because I ... I personally am completely ignorant about whether
it would be possible to shift ... uh, marijuana (both talking)
Dilkes/ Possession of marijuana, it is not.
Throgmorton/ Okay. So can't be a (both talking)
Dilkes/ It's a serious misdemeanor under the State Code, and we're ... cities are explicitly
prohibited from making something that is a serious misdemeanor a municipal infraction.
Throgmorton/ Okay, important to know what the State law is. Thanks!
Hayek/ Upcoming events.
Markus/ I... can I back up.
Hayek/ Yeah, sorry!
Markus/ Geoff, why don't you comment on why we have legislative advocacy listed with the
marijuana issue, cause I think it ties back to what ... (both talking)
Fruin/ Yeah, Jim you didn't ... you didn't mention that at the work session. We took the liberty to
place that, um, verbiage on the ... on the pending list, and it was because of just what you
probed there. Uh, we are restricted in what we can do with that, and the appropriate
action, uh, might be to ... uh, seek a remedy at the State level, a change in the law. So we
just wanted that to be part of the discussion when this eventually (several talking) before
you.
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Throgmorton/ Yeah, I think really what I was trying to get at is ... what discretion do we have,
what ... what's within our control, uh, versus what's ... what we're required to do, no
exceptions, required to do by the State.
Markus/ Yeah. And ... and when you talk about discretion, you know, in terms of the
enforcement, that moves down to the ... the point of contact of the incident, and I think
when we show you some of the statistics of the contact, and the enforcement, I think that
will inform this discussion much better. So we'll get that back to you.
Botchway/ Kind of also to Jim's point, if there was ... any ... to make it a little more broad, I guess
any data or any type of research on ... I guess as a City Council Member, I guess maybe
I'll use it from an example standpoint. Not saying that this Police Chief is doing this
currently or Chief Hargadine, um, you know, what if you run into a situation where the
Police Chief is ... investigating every single jaywalking violation or something along those
lines, are we saying that Council has no power to direct the City Manager or the City ... or
the Police Chief to change how they're, you know, are looking into those particular
violations? I guess I'm just...
Hayek/ We're ... yeah, we're delving into a conversation...
Botchway/ No, no, no! I'm not trying to...
Hayek/ I know but what we need to do is establish are we looking ... are we adding, subtracting,
or modifying items that are on the pending list.
Botchway/ Adding, that's what I was at.
Hayek/ If you can find three people to add that item, to the extent it's not already kind of implicit
in what's on the list. That's fine.
Botchway/ Right.
Hayek/ I just don't want to get into a discussion cause we can't.
Botchway/ Gotcha. It's just adding, that particular discussion, as far as what ... I don't want to
say power, but what... influence, I guess... and you mentioned it before.
Throgmorton/ I ... I, to be honest, I'm not tracking exactly what your question would be. So...
Botchway/ So it basically is what influence does City Council have on not necessarily the issue
of marijuana, but ... any particular issue. I just don't want...
Dilkes/ City Council hires and fires the City Manager.
Markus/ That's ultimate influence. (laughter)
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Botchway/ Never mind! (laughter and several talking)
Hayek/ It's a legitimate question but uh...
Dilkes/ That's the answer!
Botchway/ Okay.
Hayek/ Yeah!
Markus / Kingsley, I ... I'll talk to you after the meeting.
Botchway/ Okay!
Hayek/ Anything else? Okay. We're done and uh, thanks for your time. We'll see you next
week. Don't forget we're early next week (noises on mic)
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