HomeMy WebLinkAbout2014-06-17 TranscriptionsJune 17, 2014 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Botchway, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Fruin, Tharp, Gannon, Dilkes, Karr, Andrew, Morris, Boothroy,
Yapp, O'Brien, Havel, Bockenstedt, Davidson, Fosse, Justason, Hall
Others Present: McCarthy (UISG)
Questions From Council re: Agenda Items:
ITEM 4c ROBERTS DAIRY ADDITION — RESOLUTION APPROVING FINAL
PLAT. (SUB14- 00003)
Hayek/ First item is questions from Council regarding agenda items. I talked to Marian, uh, 4c,
which is the final plat for Roberts Dairy, there's been a request from the applicant to
defer until July 15th. So if somebody could make that motion that'd be great.
ITEM 2b(2) CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION MINUTES — May 27
Dobyns/ I did want to mention something on the Charter Review Commission of May 27th in the
packet. Um ... Member Sullivan, um, and this is something... Marian ... and it wasn't,
he ... he mentioned that, um, regarding district and I ... I'm not sure what Jim and Ter ...or
Terry think is the other district members but, you know, it just mentioned here that he
brought up the fact that, you know, um, maybe the district members shouldn't be eligible
for Mayor, and ... by virtue of the fact that we represent a small portion of Iowa City and I
guess I have never felt that as a district member. I don't know what you guys, but I feel
I'm elected ... I'm, by members of the entire city. I think I represent all of Iowa City. It's
just as a district requirement, I think, as it's written is that I'm supposed to live in District
A. But I don't represent District A. I represent the whole city.
Dilkes/ The Charter Review Commission is well aware of the ... of the mechanics of that and
there was a lot of discussion about it. Um...
Dobyns/ But I realize you can't type everything, but it... it sounded like there was no rebuttal to
that (mumbled)
Dilkes/ No, I think ... as there was 10 years ago, there's a lot of discussion of it. (both talking)
The whole issue was simply that if you're nominated and there's a primary for a district
member should or should not those members be eligible for mayor. So it was just...
Dickens/ Thrown out there.
Dilkes/ Part of the larger discussion.
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Karr/ And he did not appear. That was his previous letter they accepted into correspondence,
and noted it. So it is an old letter.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Botchway/ But that's under ... but that's under current construction, right, if they decided to
change it to do something else, then you would have to worry about that at all. Like if
you decided to do districts, then everybody was able to vote on the particular district in
the primary then it wouldn't matter.
Dobyns/ Okay. (both talking) There was a concept ... it was a concept of Council Members
electing a mayor, maybe only the at -large members should be eligible.
Botchway/ Right.
Dobyns/ And ... on that basis, and I (both talking)
Dilkes/ They are so preliminary in their discussions. There's been no conclusion reached about
anything, so...
Dobyns/ I know, but it hit my button (laughter and several talking)
Throgmorton/ You know, Rick, with regard to the same minutes, I ... I think I noticed that they
discussed having their next meeting last night, uh, so I talked with, um ... uh, with Adam
Sullivan about that, and he said, no, no, no, no! It's not... so apparently the minutes
hadn't been corrected or they changed their minds or whatever, I don't know which.
Karr/ The ... that was a date they had selected and they did change it, but those were minutes that
were old and didn't reflect the current one.
Throgmorton/ Figured that was the case.
Hayek/ Okay.
ITEM 2d(5) PROCUREMENT OF PEBBLE QUICKLIME — RESOLUTION
AUTHORIZING THE PROCUREMENT OF PEBBLE QUICKLIME FOR LIME
SOFTENING OF THE CITY'S DRINKING WATER.
Payne/ I have a question on Item 2d(5), procurement of the pebble quicklime, and it's probably
maybe a silly question, but I don't remember ever seeing this before in our packet.
Maybe we have and I just...
Markus/ We just ran out.
Payne/ How long does 1,600 tons last?
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Fosse/ I think that gets us through about a year. So with the new procurement policy in place,
purchases of that magnitude make it to your level, where they did not before. That's the
product that softens the water.
Payne/ I just was curious how long it lasted, cause it doesn't seem like it comes up very often,
cause I don't remember it at all. So ... thank you.
Fosse/ Right. Sure!
Throgmorton/ Sounds like a campaign theme to me — for quicklime or against it! (laughter)
ITEM 8. REZONING (AIRPORT) - ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 14,
ENTITLED "ZONING," CHAPTER 6, ENTITLED, "AIRPORT
ZONING," TO PROVIDE THAT A STRUCTURE MAY PENETRATE
THE HORIZONTAL OVERLAY ZONE UNDER CERTAIN
CONDITIONS. (SECOND CONSIDERATION)
Hayek/ I'd never heard that term before (mumbled) consent items. (several talking away from
mic) Uh, we'll need a expedited action motion on Item 8.
Mims/ Okay.
Hayek/ (mumbled) ...look to you but you're always the one (both talking and laughing)
Mims/ ...blue card in my drawer! (laughs)
Council Appointments:
Hayek/ All right, and then uh, we got a Council appointment on CPRB, Citizens Police Review
Board. We have a gender requirement of a male.
Dobyns/ I was going to recommend... are we discussing that now or are we doing that later?
Cause it's on the agenda.
Hayek/ No, it's ... no. It's ... it'd be part of the agenda. That's why I'm bringing it up.
Dobyns/ Yeah, I was going to, uh, fellow westsider Maxime Tremblay, um, I... you know,
there's a fellow who applied for, uh, a police position in the past. He's been here eight
years but he started his own business. He has kids so, um, he just said the hours were just
disruptive for him, but you know I just wanted to check in cause it seemed like, reading
this note, that he had a genuine interest in the, uh, Citizens Police Review Board. You
know, cause I was wondering he wrote there he had research that he was looking into it.
Urn ... and I just wanted to ... you know, and when I talked to him I asked him what
exactly that meant as far as research, and he said, well, it's because of his interest in
joining the police force, but family considerations, as we all know, occasionally intrude
on decisions we make on vocation and urn ... but he still is very interested. He's been
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here, yeah, eight years. Um, you know, an at -home business owner, um, a ... uh, auto
supply store that he, uh, also manages, as well. So I thought he was a ... and he fits, um, I
guess the male requirement...
Mims / Right (laughter)
Dobyns/ ...that we have. Okay. All right.
Mims/ As a doctor I think you should get that straight! (laughs)
Dobyns/ Yeah, yeah, well ... there's only so much I can do over the phone, Susan! (laughter)
Throgmorton/ I ... I was thinking (both talking) I'm sorry, go ahead, Susan.
Mims/ Oh, I was going to say that's fine with me. I think we've got two male candidates that are
both, you know, probably well qualified. Um, and I think, you know, I think Maxime
would be fine. I think, uh ... you know, I think his interest, his long -term interest
and ... and you know previous interest in police work I think is ... is a real positive as well.
Dickens/ I'd agree.
Payne/ I would too.
Throgmorton/ Well, sounds like that decisions been made, but I wanted to ask a ... just a technical
question. Uh, Adam Sullivan had applied but he's also currently on the Charter Review
Commission. Is there anything that would have kept us from appointing him to the
CPRB?
Dilkes/ Um, we looked at that and we concluded there wasn't, since the ... the resolution allowing
for ... for Charter Review said you could be on another commission.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I thought (both talking)
Dilkes/ ...thought it was reasonable that he, yeah.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I think Adam would be a terrific appointee, but I don't object to the other
fellow.
Hayek/ I'm open to him, the ... the new guy, and I ... we ... we try to give opportunities to people
who are not on commissions where possible. It's not a hard and fast policy but I think
that's been our soft practice. I'm ... I'm okay with it! I thought the female applicant was
strong too.
Mims/ Uh huh.
Hayek/ And I think, uh, Adam's (several talking)
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Mims/ ... all of `em were.
Dobyns/ But the Charter Review, that's a pretty plum appointment that, you know, that we gave
Adam so...
Mims / And pretty time intensive for the next year looks like with their meeting schedule too,
so...
Karr/ Mr. Mayor, I wanted to note we're also adding the announcement of the Airport
Commission vacancy, as well. Late to your agenda. Not an appointment, but just an
announcement of vacancy.
Hayek/ All right. Let me link up with you before the formal to get that so I can announce it.
ITEM 2e(2) REZONING 629 S. RIVERSIDE DRIVE (FORMER HARTWIG
MOTORS SITE) — MOTION SETTING A PUBLIC HEARING FOR JULY 15 ON
AN ORDINANCE CONDITIONALLY REZONING APPROXIMATELY 3.02
ACRES OF PROPERTY FROM COMMUNITY COMMERCIAL (CC -2) ZONE
TO RIVERFRONT CROSSINGS — WEST RIVERFRONT (RFC -WR) ZONE
LOCATED ON THE WEST SIDE OF SOUTH RIVERSIDE DRIVE, NORTH OF
BENTON STREET AND SOUTH OF THE IOWA INTERSTATE RAILROAD
(REZ14- 00009)
Payne/ I also have a question on 2e(2) which is a rezoning ... on Riverside Drive. My question is
pretty general. Um, this is the ... will be...
Hayek/ Which item is this?
Payne/ 2e(2).
Throgmorton/ Setting a public hearing, isn't it?
Payne/ Yep, for a rezoning.
Dickens/ Commercial to River...
Payne/ And it ... my only question is is we have to do this for every parcel in Riverfront
Crossings? Rezone it, or is it ... not due to it being in Riverfront Crossings that it's being
rezoned?
Dilkes/ (mumbled) ...the Riverfront Crossings code did not rezone property to a Riverfront
Crossings designation.
Payne/ So every single parcel...
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Dilkes/ Well, if they choose, you know, if...yeah.
Hayek/ If they opt in.
Boothroy/ This is at the initiation of the property owner.
Payne/ Okay.
Boothroy/ We are working on looking at a larger area for rezoning.
Payne/ Okay.
Dobyns/ ... doesn't piecemeal? Okay.
Payne/ Thank you!
Hayek/ Other agenda questions? Okay! Let's take up the local option sales tax
recommendations. Sir Dennis! (laughter)
Discuss Local Option Sale Tax Recommendation (IP5 of 6/12 Info EhL
Bockenstedt/ Um... several months ago, uh, we put together a committee to explore the potential
for an implementation or a renewal, uh, of the local option sales tax and uh, we've been
meeting for the last several months and tonight is going to be the report from that
committee from its findings and recommendations. Uh, the committee members were,
uh, Susan Mims, Councilor; uh, Tom Markus, City Manager; Eleanor Dilkes, uh, City
Attorney; Marian Karr, City Clerk; um, myself, and then we had support and assistance
from Simon Andrew and Cindy Ambrose. Uh, the purpose of the committee was to
evaluate the overall feasibility of a local option sales tax. Uh, this would include the
identification of essential factors, and including regional and legal considerations, and uh,
from that would make a recommendation whether the City should pursue a local option
sales tax or not. Um, if it was considered feasible, uh, the committee would then make
recommendations on how that local option sales tax, uh, should be used, um, including
looking at the use of existing resources, uh, potential financial, economic, and operational
risks, and the inclusive and sustainable values and priorities expressed in the City
strategic plan. Um, on top of that, the committee would further make recommendations
on the sales tax ballot language and the timing of a public referendum. Uh, the major, uh,
factors, essential factors that were identified by the committee, uh, were one, the City's
strategic plan was the primary factor. A second major factor was the property tax reform
legislation of 2013, and also a lot of state, regional, local considerations, uh, were
reviewed. Um, the City Council's strategic plan really was, uh, the backbone, uh, of the
review process and is really kind of filter that ... that everything went (mumbled) the
decisions, the recommendations, um, and of course that ... that, uh, strategic plan, uh, is to
foster a more inclusive and sustainable city, through its commitment to helping
neighborhoods, strong urban core, strategic economic development activities, a solid
financial foundation, and enhanced communication and marketing. Um, as far as, uh, the
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essential factor, or the factor identified of the property tax reform legislation. That was,
uh, passed the State Legislature in May of 2013 and the first year of impact of that will be
fiscal year 2015, which would be this July of this year would be the first month of that
year, uh ... the ... the full brunt of that legislation's impact will be felt over the next ten
years as those provisions take effect, uh, with the full or estimated impact being, uh, $37
million in... in revenue reduc... excuse me, revenue reduction over the next ten years. Uh,
there's an additional reduction of revenue of $14.7 million; however, we expect the State
to backfill that 14.7 million. And ... and part of what we're looking at as far as that
backfill's concerned, uh, is the State's history of meeting its backfill commitments, uh,
for revenue of this nature, such as the personal property tax replacement and the
machinery and equipment replacement, which, uh, were both eliminated by the State.
Uh, so we looked at different strategies to ... to deal with this legislation from the State.
We really looked at kind of a three- pronged approach. Uh, one was revenue
diversification. Uh, that would reduce the City's reliance on property tax. Two would be
contingency and emergency funding to provide the City flexibility to react to, uh,
adversity or uncertainty, and then lastly, uh, controlled spending, creating operating
efficiencies, that would reduce the City's overall ... or would reduce the... overall growth
of the City's expenditures, that would hopefully coincide with the reduction in the
property tax revenue. Um, we really looked at kind of four different alternative revenue
sources, um, the first one being the emergency property tax levy, of which there's a 27-
cent levy available, would generate approximately $840,000 a year. Um, we felt that this
did not meet with the City's strategic plan, and also would not reduce the City's reliance
on property taxes, and was not a very good option. Um, in addition, the City has
additional authority under the Trust and Agency Levy. Um, as we have additional
employee benefits that we're not levying for. Uh, this could generate upwards of an
additional about $1.8 million per year, but the same issue with the emergency levy is that
it doesn't reduce our reliance on property taxes, and is not consistent with the City's
strategic plan. Um, another alternative could be the utility franchise fee. Uh, City
currently has a I% fee enacted. Uh, we are allowed to go up to a 5% fee. Uh, that
increase would generate about $3.6, uh, million per year. Uh, on the ... on the good side
of this, it can be passed by the Council without having to go to a referendum, uh,
however, our citizens could submit a petition and push that to an election. Uh, this fee
was originally adopted by the City in 2009 at 2 %, and then was lowered, I think, less than
a year later to 1% in 2010, uh, partly to maintain the City's economic development
competitiveness. Um, and then the local option sales tax was the fourth one we looked at
and... and this was really the primary one that this committee was assigned to look at, um,
and that there was a 1% local option sales tax available to the City. Um, we estimated
that this would generate anywhere from $9 to $12 million per year. Um, on the downside
of that, it requires a referendum with the other jurisdictions, in order for implementation;
however, the, uh, potential revenue is significantly higher than the other forms of
alternative revenue sources. In addition to that, part of the revenue generation would
come from residents from outside the city limits, whereas the other options are all
generated from the residents that are within the city limits. Um, and Simon's going to
cover the...the next factors for the state, regional, local. So ... turn it over to Simon!
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Andrew/ Thank you! (clears throat) Excuse me! Uh, Simon Andrew, Administrative Analyst.
Um, I will go over some of the, uh, state, local, and regional considerations as Dennis
said. Um, a lot of this just gets into the logistics of the voting and um, how revenue is
distributed afterwards. Um, Iowa City and Des Moines are the only major metro areas in
the state that don't have a local option sales tax. Uh, over 91% of jurisdictions in the
state do have a local option sales tax, and that's out of 1,363 total jurisdictions, including
all the unincorporated areas. Um, further, Des Moines faces challenges that we don't
face in passing this. Des Moines has many more, uh, contiguous cities in their metro
area, which we'll talk about a little bit in a minute. Um, and it spans three counties,
which also does complicate the voting procedure. Um, one example from across the state
is Ames. They have a 60% of their revenue earmarked for property tax relief, which
reduces their levy ... well, in fiscal year 14 reduced their property tax levy by $1.84, um,
which was over $4 million in property tax relief. Uh, they have another $2.8 million
budgeted for community betterment projects, and this includes their process that's similar
to our Aid to Agencies (coughing, unable to hear speaker) Uh, they earmark some local
option sales tax dollars for that. Uh, here's a property tax comparison statewide. We are
at the high end of major metros in the, uh, state. Uh, and it's significantly higher than our
closest neighbors. So, um, property tax relief is something that, uh, we look to for
economic (mumbled) competitive reasons. Um, the cities using local option sales tax, as
Dennis mentioned, with diversifying revenue sources, um, are able to invest in
infrastructure, community betterment projects — as with Ames, and ... and/or lowering
property tax rates to attract development. Um, really it's best to think about this in two
distinct sections, and that's the voting procedure and then the distribution of revenue.
Uh, they do follow different mechanisms. Uh, a countywide vote can be called by a
motion of, uh, jurisdictions representing more than half the county's population, and
Iowa City represents more than half of Johnson County's re ... uh, population. So a
motion from, uh, a resolution from the Iowa City City Council would be enough to, uh,
force a vote countywide. Uh, the five contiguous cities in our metro area vote as a block.
Uh, and that would be Iowa City, Coralville, North Liberty, Tiffin, and University
Heights. Um, all five of those cities, it's a simple majority irrespective of jurisdiction.
Um, every vote counts exactly the same from each jurisdiction, and a majority of all the
population across those five cities will decide whether there's a local option sales tax in
all five of those cities or none of those cities. Um, there can't be a situation in which one
of those five has it and the rest do not. Um, the six remaining cities and a small portion
of West Branch and unincorporated county will each vote to determine whether this tax is
applied in their own jurisdictions. And this recognizes negative consequences of having,
uh, local option sales tax in a jurisdiction and not in a neighboring jurisdiction, and
especially if you think of it in terms of, uh, differing lengths of time for these taxes. If
you can imagine one city passing one for ten years, um, the next city doesn't start theirs
until three years later but theirs lasts 15 years. You have a lot of back and forth across
jurisdictions that can really complicate, um, business interactions and commerce. Um,
for instance, with our last local option sales tax, where we had it and Coralville did not.
Say you bought a piece of furniture in Coralville, if you drove it home from Coralville it
was 6 %. If you had it delivered to your house it was 7% sales tax and... so having that go
back and forth across jurisdictions can become problematic. Now the distribution of
revenue is, uh, a different, uh, ballgame. Um, all of the LOST revenue across the whole
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county goes into one pool. The funds are distributed only to jurisdictions that approve
the tax, and obviously it's only collected in jurisdictions that approve the tax. And the
funds are distributed based on, uh, this formula with, uh, 75% based on population of the
2010 Census, and uh, 25% based on property taxes collected, um, from when the law was
initially enacted. And again, this formula recognizes some complications that, um, can
arise, uh, if...we don't ... we don't take into account who pays sales taxes, that they're
paid by individuals and not by the businesses or where they're located, and um, adjacent
communities can prioritize economic retail attraction in a way that, um, can ... hurt
economic cooperation across the jurisdictions and um, can overall hurt the taxpayers.
Um ... and there are a few examples of the distribution formula here just to ... it was easier
for me to understand at least looking at the specifics. This would be the table if
everybody in Johnson County passed it, including the unincorporated county, and that
gets us close to the $10 million revenue. Um, and a note here, this $20 million revenue
number is ballpark, predicting retail sales is a little like predicting the weather. Um, they
go up and down, but based on our most recent experience with local option sales tax
revenue, uh, $20 million is a pretty good ballpark countywide. Um...
Payne/ Per year?
Andrew/ Yes, per year. Correct! And so this would be the breakdown. We'd be close to $10
million and the incorporated county would be in the $4.5 million range, and you see the
rest there. Now the second example is if just the metro area passed it, just the five
contiguous cities passed it. Um, this would bring our revenue up closer to 13.5 million
per year with that $20 million ballpark countywide. Um, this pool would be 19.3 million
because it wouldn't be collected in all those other jurisdictions outside of the metro area.
And the final example, uh, if the five contiguous cities and Solon and Swisher approve,
same concept. The, um, total pool bumps up to 19.7 million with the additional, uh,
jurisdictions involved and again, we're still at about that $13.5 million range. And then
some local considerations that we took into account. Um, what ... mostly centered around
our most recent local option sales tax. Uh, jurisdictions frequently have an easier time
passing it once the public has had a pros... positive experience with the tax in their
jurisdiction. We were very, uh, transparent and accurate in our process, and our
predictions, um, early on. Um, prior to the local option sales tax election in 2009, staff
predicted, um, roughly $36 million in revenue over the full four years of the tax, and it
came in at 35 million, and that, uh, projection was made even before we knew which
jurisdictions would be voting for it and which would not. Um, our project estimates have
been very consistent all along and we have used every single dollar just as how we said
we were going to use it. So we feel that, um ... that going forward we have instilled some
confidence in the public that, um, future votes will be, um, a little bit easier. And with
that, we'll move back to Dennis with the recommendations of the committee. (several
talking) Oh, sorry! (laughter)
Dobyns/ ... urn ... when was the last time prior to the flood LOST that the City of Iowa City had a
sales LOST op, local option sales (both talking)
Andrew/ The last time we had an election was 1999.
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Dobyns/ Okay.
Andrew/ (both talking) ...in Johnson County prior to the...
Dobyns/ The flood one?
Andrew/ ...related one.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Markus/ And the...
Payne/ And they failed.
Markus / And the outcome of the election (several talking)
Andrew/ ... it failed then.
Payne/ And what was it going to be used for?
Andrew/ Um, I can follow up on that with you before the formal. I do have the ballot language
handy.
Payne/ Thanks!
Andrew/ And I apologize, I don't remember off the top of my head.
Hayek/ Okay! Thanks, Simon! (several talking)
Andrew/ Thanks!
Bockenstedt/ ...recommendations and after we reviewed all the information, had a lot of
discussion about, um, the strategic plan, what the options were, uh, we came up with the
following recommendations. Um, one, that the local option sales tax, uh, is worth
pursuing and is the best alternative to property tax. Um, committee also recommended
that the...the following split for the local option sales tax. Uh, 60% for property tax
relief, uh, 30% for street improvements, and 10% for affordable housing. Uh, in regards
to property tax relief, uh, we felt that that was consistent with the City's strategic plan
priorities, um, that it, uh, helped build a solid financial foundation and also produced
strategic economic development activity. Um, approximately 5.4 to $7.2 million per year
would go to property tax relief, uh, which could potentially lower the City's property tax
rate by $1.75 to $2.35 per thousand dollars of value. And this would, uh, take Iowa
City's property tax rate to lower than that of Cedar Rapids and would be, uh, more
competitive with that of the City of Coralville's.
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Payne/ And is ... that's per thousand?
Bockenstedt/ (mumbled) (both talking)
Payne/ Not per hundred thousand?
Bockenstedt/ That's correct.
Dickens/ Go from 1681 down...
Bockenstedt/ To ... (both talking) 1481.
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Bockenstedt/ 1350.
Markus/ Per thousand dollars of taxable value.
Bockenstedt/ Yeah. Per thousand... yeah. So you take the value, divide it by 1,000, multiplied
times that rate. So for street improvements, um, the committee felt that this was
consistent with the strategic plan priorities of a strong urban core and healthy
neighborhoods. Approximately 2.7 to $3.6 million, uh, would be available for street
maintenance, annual over ... overlay programs, and street reconstruction, and to put that
into context, uh, the current year's CIP calls for $640,000 for the annual overlay program.
So you see it'd generate a substantial amount of money for ... for street repairs and
construction. Um, last summer the City did a resident survey that went out, and in that
survey, uh, 37% of the respondents rated the City's street repairs as good or excellent,
which was much below the national benchmark for other communities. Uh, so there's a
perceived need out there for street repairs. Uh, in addition the streets have suffered, um,
deferred maintenance due to the (mumbled) uh, tax fund at the State level. In addition
these funds could be used for the City's ADA curb and ramp replacement program which
would also benefit elderly and handicapped individuals and other forms of transportation.
Hayek/ Dennis, can you ... can you put a little more meat on the bone that is the road use tax fund
and the other sources of outside funding, what we historically have used for our road and
transporta ... or road purposes (both talking) this is something we've talked about for
years and we've watched it erode (both talking)
Bockenstedt/ Right now we ... we transfer in ... about (laughter and several talking) we transfer in
money from the road use tax fund, the general fund, and utility franchise tax to help cover
the annual, uh, overlay program. Pretty much most all the other road improvements, uh,
either ... like this ... the daily maintenance comes out of the road use tax fund but ... uh, for
other street reconstruction and improvements come ... are from general obligation
bonding, um, or grant work, where we apply for a grants and receive state or federal
money. Um, so it's kinda hit or miss basis, depending on what's available and uh, what's
approved. So that's the primary sources, uh, that go towards, um, streets and roads.
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Hayek/ But ... but what has happened with especially the State funding? That ... we've relied on
historically and what we've done to ... what we've had to do to replace that locally (both
talking)
Bockenstedt/ I mean it's ... it's a bit of a catch -22 in the fact that as, you know, as fuel efficiency
gets better, and, you know, and economic issues, you know, those revenues have
stagnated, whereas the costs have ... have, there was a period of time where maybe
(mumbled) stabilized but have generally gone up because a lot of the materials are related
to oil, such as the asphalt itself, is oil based material. So you know the revenues have
really flattened out and have not gone up where a lot of the costs have increased over that
period of time, which has reduced the amount of roadwork that can be done, and this is
a ... really an issue not just for the City, but for the State and for the country and ... and
how that we tax and do streets and road repairs. Um, so ... now we did see an uptick in
revenue because the allocation of those revenues for the State are based on our Census,
and so since we had an increase in our Census figures in 2010, a couple years ago there's
a delay in that time period, our revenues did take a jump, um, I think by a couple hundred
thousand dollars, um, and ... but it's not been enough to really recapture the deferred
maintenance that we've had over the last 10 or 20 years from those declining revenue
sources.
Hayek/ And are we bonding more?
Bockenstedt/ Bonding more?
Hayek/ Yeah, for... for...
Bockenstedt/ I don't know that we're bonding more. It's just that that...
Hayek/ We're just not getting the repairs...
Bockenstedt/ We haven't grown our overlay program to meet the needs of what it would take.
So as our costs for that program have gone up, our allocations to it have stayed the same,
or have been flat. So in order to cover the same amount of roads that we would have
covered 20 years ago, those allocations would have had to grow with the costs, and
they've not done that.
Markus/ Dennis, maybe it'd be a good time for Rick Fosse to come up and interject some
information about where part of the money goes in terms of the road maintenance fund.
Fosse/ Yeah, this is a timely discussion because at tonight's meeting we're going to be setting
the public hearing for the ... this year's, uh, overlay program and if you looked at the
memo that ... that accompanied that agenda item, you'll note that it covers two streets.
Our entire program covers two streets, and you go back to the 1980s and the program was
usually somewhere in the neighborhood of...of nine to 12 streets. So that tells you that
our money is not going as far as it used to because the road use tax has remained fixed
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over the years. Another thing that's eroding at our ability to ... to get things done is ... is
the ADA, and if you look at where our money is going in this year's program, of the
$640,000 that we're spending on those two overlays, 190,000 of that is for the curb ramps
that intersect with these streets. So a full 30% is spent just for the curb ramps, and that...
that erodes at our ability to get work done.
Dobyns/ So, Rick, regarding roads, I mean, like major arterials that are state and nationally
designated road, bridges, um ... are those paid for by other monies or is the repair and
maintenance of those, of roads and bridges, also undermined by, um, you know, the same
problems here with the road use tax fund?
Fosse/ Well the, uh, for ... let's talk about roads and bridges separately (both talking)
Dobyns/ Okay!
Fosse/ ...because they...they have, involve different funding sources. So for ... for bridges, our
maintenance fund comes from road use tax. Uh, once the bridge rets ... reaches the state
of sufficient deficiency, if...that's a good way to put it (laughter) then we can, uh, secure
some federal money, if... if federal money's available, to replace that bridge. Now for the
maintenance of our roads, that ... that's virtually exclusively, uh, from road use tax funds.
Um, when we build a new street, like the Gateway Project, First Avenue railroad grade
separation, uh, Lower Muscatine — those all involved some degree of...of federal grants
through the Surface Transportation Program. Uh, so they're not fully reliant on road use
tax money. But our maintenance money, that ... the bread and butter of that comes from
road use tax.
Dobyns/ So I'm thinking....and I lived for many years by the I -35 bridge, across Mississippi at
Minneapolis. So I have a very strong awareness of bridges and gravity having a battle.
Fosse/ Uh huh.
Dobyns/ Um ... but I mean how bad is bad here? Is it to the point where the City ... I mean, we
have to maintain roads, without the LOST tax going through. I assume we still have to
put money, I mean, we've got two roads. But eventually in subsequent years we're going
to have to take, pull monies away from other obligations that the City has.
Fosse/ Right, at...at some point we may need to be doing bonding to pay for overlay programs.
We've resisted that in the past because you don't want to sell a 10 or a 20 -year bond to
pay for a 7 -year improvement. You know, something that's not going to last the life of
the bond. Uh, one of the things that we're doing in ... in recent years is we're
transitioning into a pavement management system. So it ... we have, uh, indexes of the
pavement condition, and you can see that overall as a community that that index is
declining. So we are not investing sufficiently to hold our ground with our pavement
maintenance.
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Dickens/ I know we have upped the curb ... for the ADA this year to $100,000, rather than 50 and
what would it take to do all of `em?
Fosse/ To do all of them?
Dickens/ Yes.
Fosse/ I don't think we have a number of (laughter) and ... and I don't think that it's ... it's
something that you want to do, because when you ... when you go back and do an overlay,
for instance, on a street that you just (both talking) redid the curb ramp, you have to redo
it again. Yeah.
Markus/ Is it fair to say ... Rick, that you were surprised by the percentage of the road
improvement program that is being allocated to ADA improvements?
Fosse/ I was! You know, I asked our engineer that was ... that's working on the project this year,
just to run that number for me, cause I thought it'd come out in the 15 to 20% range and
when it came out at 30 %, I was ... I was pretty surprised by that.
Markus/ And ... and in this particular program, is this the same money as the $100,000 that...
Fosse/ No, it's not!
Markus/ This is in addition to...
Fosse/ That's correct!
Markus/ ...those funds as well.
Fosse/ Yes!
Markus/ So, you know, we ... we receive some commentary about ADA, and how much we were
funding, you know, some of these curb ramps projects and so we wanted to make a point
of telling you how much is actually being invested in that program.
Fosse / Any other questions?
Throgmorton/ Yes, Rick, uh, over the ... the 10 -year period, what fraction of the expenditures for
road related stuff would be for new roads... versus, uh, repaving versus ADA ramps
versus whatever could be conceived? And ... and let me kind of restate that. When I read
that particular part of the proposal, I thought, this sounds pretty vague to me about how
the money actually would be spent over a 10 -year period.
Markus/ I ... I'd like to jump in on that conversation...
Throgmorton/ Sure!
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Markus/ ...and I think, um, like so many things nowadays that are kind of ... determining how we
spend money, I think we would refer back to our strategic plan, which calls for
investment in the core neighborhoods and you know... if I had my druthers, we would
invest in what we have before we invest in expansion... for growth.
Throgmorton/ Let me pick up on that. When ... when I read, uh, the ... the committee report, I
thought why... describe this in terms of street improvements or roadway improvements or
whatever. Why not focus it, uh, title it and focus it on something like building healthy
core neighborhoods. Or something kinda like that, and not limit it to simply to roadways,
but to doing other, making other investments to greatly enhance the health of our core
neighborhoods.
Markus / And by that I ... I suspect you mean the whole right -of -way area and (both talking)
Throgmorton/ I mean the whole right -of -way, yes...
Markus/ ...bikable and...
Throgmorton/ Yeah, and ... and maybe (both talking)
Markus/ We had a ... we had a pretty lengthy conversation about that in the committee, and
we're ... we wanted to be careful about the messaging. I would say to you that I think that
if you prioritized fixing what you have, that would direct more money to the core
neighborhoods. I think during the design ... if it's just an overlay, Jim, I think it's ... it's a
pretty simple understanding of what happens. But at some point the road doesn't warrant
an overlay. The ward action... the... the warrant is to totally replace the road, and I think
when you get into those situations where you're realigning curb, or rebuilding curb, or
rebuilding base in the road, that's a time when you get into the ... the discussion about
aligning things for street... smart streets, in terms of... of, uh, bike lanes and other things
(both talking)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I was thinking about, you know, pa ... painting bike lanes, uh, making...
signage having to do with bike lanes. All ... the whole...
Markus/ Right.
Mims/ (both talking) And I ... I would just also say in ... in some of that discussion that we had
about the verbiage and stuff, I think that's also why we included associated infrastructure.
Because that gives some flexibility you know whether you're just doing overlay or
whether you're doing new construction that that could include, you know, the whole
complete streets concept — bike lanes, you know, different kinds of things, um ... so ... but
also to maintain a certain amount of flexibility with the language. I think, you know, as
we looked at that, you know, 10 -year versus no sunset on it ... it's, you know, if we can
get this passed, then, you know, the citizens of Iowa City and the area will judge us in 10
years of how good a stewards we have been of the money. Um, and ... us and future
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Councils, and at the same time, we ... we have to look at this from the standpoint of what
do we think the people in this community want the most, and so how do we lay this out
so that we have the best opportunity to get this passed. And we've heard a lot about
complaints about streets. Um, we've talked about property taxes being high and being
competitive in that area, and then we also know that affordable housing is a huge issue,
and so you know those are the kinds of things we were looking at in trying to balance,
um, the numbers that we (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...as a District C guy (laughs) to play off on Rick's earlier comment, I certainly
recognize that the older streets need attention. There's no question about that!
Mims/ Agree!
Throgmorton/ Um, part of my concern is, uh ... uh, I see some ambiguity about how much, well,
whether or how much money would be spent to build new roads, on the periphery of the
city, with these funds. That's what I'm most unclear about, and ... and...
Payne/ But maintenance doesn't mean new. I mean, I think they're two totally separate things.
Throgmorton/ I ... I ... I'm saying when I read the stuff, it was not clear to me.
Markus/ Okay, and... and, Jim, I think the point I would make to you is, we're bringing this to
you as a committee recommendation, and I think the Council has the ability to shape the
specifics and the message that would be conveyed to the public about what our priorities
are in any of these given categories. Um ... I would say to you, for example, you have
Moss Road, uh, Ridge Road on the agenda this evening, and that's being funded, uh, I
think we're using bonds, and the bonds potentially are being retired out of RISE grant,
out of, um ... potentially general fund, but also out of TIF, uh ... uh, funding, as that
development gets going. So, in those particular cases, that ... that's not our emphasis here
and... so I think you have the ability with the adoption of the resolution to refine the
message and the direction that we would like to see the money being spent on.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, good. I ... it ... it's a point that matters to me, I can say.
Markus/ I get it! And I think ... I think you would find that the staff would be very diligent in
trying to make sure that there's alignment with the annual budget of how this money gets
spent and the strategic plan! So, and the strategic plan, I think, is very consistent with
what you're arguing for.
Botchway/ So, actually had a question for Rick, uh, regarding the ADA stuff. Uh, I got a little
confused by your question, um, or your answer to Terry. So I'm assuming Terry was
asking for, you know, for all of the different ADA ramps and curbs, how much it would
cost, right?
Dickens / Right.
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Botchway/ But just to (both talking) just to get up to, um, where we have, you know, compliant
ADA ramps and curbs, um, from whatever we have now, how much would that cost be?
I mean, would it be an exorbitant amount? Or is it the same...
Fosse/ I hear that as the same question, so I might be missing something.
Botchway/ I guess I'm (noises on mic)
Dickens/ That's basically ... I just want to know what the overall cost if we made all the ... all the
curb cut, or all the curbs ADA - accessible.
Botchway/ So, right now all the curb cuts in ... throughout Iowa City are currently, um ... ADA
compliant?
Fosse/ No (several responding) they're not. (several talking)
Botchway/ So ... there are...
Hayek/ ...there remains quite a lot to do.
Botchway/ Okay.
Hayek/ We've been annually allocating some amount to chip away at the issue, but we'll never
catch up, or it'll take years to catch up, so I think you and Terry were asking the same
question.
Botchway/ Oh, okay, all right (several talking)
Hayek/ ....would it take to get from where we are to (several talking)
Dickens/ ...when we reconstruct a street you have to redo the one that you've already done.
Botchway/ Gotcha. Okay. I just (several talking)
Markus/ ...I would ask Rick to weigh in on this, but I have to tell you that the federal rules and
regs for ADA - accessible, um, intersections have evolved. Meaning they have changed
every so often, and so some that have already been installed do not meet contemporary
standards.
Mims/ They were complaint at the time that they were installed, but now they're not.
Markus/ So now they're not back in, and I think the other point that Rick makes is that when you
make a physical road improvement, you know, the ... the ADA ramps all have to meet
certain grade requirements. So if you change the base elevation of the road improvement,
you now have to change the ADA ramp to match the new elevation of the road, and so
what we try to do is when we rebuild roads, incorporate those ADA ramp improvements
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at the same time, so that you have the proper gradient on those ramps leading to the
roadways.
Fosse/ The ... the moving target is a good point. During the 1990s we hit the, uh, compliance
hard and we were spending about $100,000 a year on ... on upgrading curb ramps, and
then the, uh, one of the major standards changed in about 2002, and it made all of those
non - compliant, that we'd put so much effort in over a period of 10 to 12 years. So any
time we come across those and we have a project in the area, we need to replace `em.
Botchway/ So I guess going back to Matt's comment, you know, so ... it's going to take some
time to get this done and what the LOST or whatever money, um, comes from LOST,
you know, I guess is there a ... a year, a projected year where we could be totally ADA
complaint, or is it just kind of you know we'll see it when we get to it?
Fosse/ Simon's doing some studies on that now, but I ... I don't think we're at a point where we
can answer that question yet.
Dickens/ He's sneaking up behind ya!
Mims/ I mean, I would think the other thing that would be of concern is if the feds change the
regs again, we could be back where we started.
Andrew/ That's a major concern for doing many all at once, um, but the other thing to keep in
mind is that we won't ever be done with curb ramps any more than we're done filling pot
holes every time the ground freezes and thaws. The slopes change. Um, many that aren't
up to current regulations are just the truncated domes, um, as Rick was talking about that
was what was not required in the 90s, and so it becomes a matter of if you want to spend
the money on putting truncated domes on a ramp that otherwise meets grade and is
entirely accessible, or whether you want to use that money for sidewalk infill or
something else that increases accessibility, which would include a curb ramp where there
is none, and there's also the complications of, um, some right -of -ways can have a
diagonal ramp that serves both directions, and some require a ramp going in each
direction, in the (mumbled) intersection, and so it's really hard to find an exact tally.
There are also places where if you do an improvement you need a mid -ramp, uh, mid -
block curb ramp. There's a couple of places on Court Street where you see that, and
that's a matter of, um, you could have two mid - blocks for both sides of the street, or say
that the accessible route is to go across this way and then across here, and so a lot of that
is judgment calls that makes it hard to fix an exact number on it, but to bring them all up
to standard today would be in the millions (mumbled)
Markus / And ... and so the ... the other point I would make is, as we invest these funds, if...if in
fact the LOST were successful, as we invest those funds, there will be associated ADA
improvements above and beyond this separate allocation that we're making for ADA.
We will be making those improvements to meet the current standards, with a lot of those
road improvements associated with this investment. So there'd be steady progress
moving towards that.
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Mims / And I think it's important to emphasize what Simon just said too is ... just because they
don't meet the current ADA requirements does not mean they are not, at least a lot of
them, are not still accessible. I mean, they aren't perfect in terms of the highest and
newest standards, but it doesn't mean you don't have a ramp that isn't usable.
Botchway/ Again that's why (several talking) that's why I was seeing the difference in the
question...
Mims/ Yep.
Botchway/ ...I thought you were talking about getting up to code, and I was talking ... and I was
talking about, um, you know, if there's currently, you know, no accessibility (both
talking)
Mims/ ... no curb cut at all...
Botchway/ ...how do we get to that point? And that's the number I wanted. But I wasn't being
as clear.
Mims/ Gotcha!
Throgmorton/ Dennis, before you leap ahead, I'd like to ask two follow up questions on what
you earlier said about ... about the property tax part of this. Uh, so one is, would the
proposed property tax relief apply across the board to all residential, commercial, and
industrial properties?
Bockenstedt/ That's correct.
Mims/ It has to by law, doesn't it? (both talking)
Bockenstedt/ ...it'd be a reduction in the rate, which the rate applies to all of those types of
property.
Throgmorton/ Does it have to by law? Which is something (both talking)
Bockenstedt/ ...yeah, I don't think we can differentiate in that manner.
Throgmorton/ It can't be focused on residential?
Bockenstedt/ I don't know that there's a way...
Markus/ I didn't see anything in our review that would suggest (several talking)
Dilkes/ I think I've actually looked at that issue before and I don't think so.
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Bockenstedt/ Yeah, I don't...
Throgmorton/ Okay. Uh, the other question has to do with Coralville. You know, cause part of
the, uh, argument is that reducing property tax rates ... the mill rate, would enhance the
economic competitiveness of Iowa City, relative to Coralville. Um, but if they adopt the
local option sales tax, presumably they would use a substantial portion of their revenues
to reduce their property taxes.
Mims/ I think that's a pretty bold assumption.
Bockenstedt/ They could.
Mims/ Could, but they also have a huge debt they need to address which might (several talking)
Throgmorton/ That's true. So maybe I'm wrong.
Bockenstedt/ It's not just in relation to Coralville. That is you know one of the comparatives that
we have, cause they're our... our neighbor, you know, but if you look at the other large
jurisdictions, if you're looking at industrial customers that are looking, you know,
industrial companies that are looking for... for people to work or certain size of
community to be in, so if you look at our comparables at that level, we're at the upper
end of that level. So ... you know, if you were looking at Sioux City versus Iowa City,
and they had a sales tax and a lower property tax rate, they would be more competitive
from that aspect. So...
Markus/ I need to ... I need to jump in at this point too. I think there's a bigger risk associated
with what the recent State legislation proposal was and that would put in play each
jurisdiction being able to vote on their own (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...yeah, understand that.
Markus/ ...and so what that would mean is if one of those jurisdictions, let's take Coralville for
example, they put it on the referendum. They passed the referendum. That amount
would go, and nobody else passed it and you didn't see that in the chart, that full amount
that's located in Coralville would return to Coralville. Geoff and I will tell you that that's
the Illinois model. A penny of every dollar in sales tax returns to the community of
origin. And my argument is...
Hayek/ Where the sale was generated.
Markus / Where the sale was generated, and my argument is, people pay sales tax. Businesses
don't. Businesses collect the sales tax, and it should be returned to the people that
actually pay the sales tax. To say it another way, how many commercial businesses do
you think would exist in Coralville if you took the 70,000 out of Iowa City right now, and
so ... when a certain city official may comment that they didn't care for the negative
consequences of that, that's what that person was referring to. Okay? And so my
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argument is, we don't want to see the law amended, but to get back to your specific point,
can you imagine what their property tax would look like if they got to keep it all?
Throgmorton/ Uh huh.
Markus/ Probably wouldn't exist! They probably would have a property tax. So ... I don't think
that's a negative consequence. And I think the other thing I would say to you is, if you
go back and look at the Peter Fisher study, the Peter Fisher study made quite clear that all
of us are contributing to the TIF effort that occurred in Coralville. Now, I didn't see any
counter - argument to that study, and I think it said the average household, uh, paid close
to $100 per household, uh, for (several talking)
Mims/ $200!
Markus/ Was it? For TIF, um, TIFing project, so ... we saw this legislation start to work its way
through the Legislature last year and it was a huge concern to us, and we had pretty
serious conversations with some of our delegation that we didn't want to see that go
forward. I think there's real value in having these things done on a metro level. You'll
also notice that the other ... the other major city in the Iowa City corridor basically said,
yeah, they...they saw this was a good opportunity. They understand the point that it
comes back to, uh, the community based on population, so ... I think there's a bigger
threat that if we don't do this, that ... legislative changes could be put in place that would
really benefit, um, singular communities that have over - concentrated the commercial
beyond what just serves their particular community.
Throgmorton/ I understand the point and the rationale. I totally get it. Uh, but I also recall that
the report notes that a substantial fraction un ... unspecified, but a substantial fraction of
the sales tax revenue would come from visitors to Johnson County.
Markus/ Exactly! And so...
Throgmorton/ But the money's not going back to them, I mean that's the only thing I'm...
Markus/ Yes, but I would ... but I would say to that part of the argument, I think those types of
situations occur on the margins of just about, you know, there's no perfect tax. Some
...at some degree if you ... if you examine taxes, somebody is impacted differently on
these taxes one way or the other. And I would say that that's a methodology used to
export the tax burden to others. There's... whenever you use sales tax there's always
people that come in from outside the area, just like all of us go someplace else and pay
sales tax in other states, in other parts of our own state. So ... that to me is a benefit,
which quite frankly argues against the regressive nature of what people re ... typically
refer to as the sales tax feature.
Hayek/ And I would, to your point, Jim, I would suggest that visitors and commuters, to the
extent we're using a portion of this if it passes, for road maintenance, are using our roads.
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Payne/ To get to that business...
Hayek/ ...to get to that business or to wherever they're headed. Um, and... and... and so this
reflects their demand on our... system.
Mims / And another part of that, I would say, as well is a lot of this is generated by visitors who
come to this area for large events. You talk about Iowa football games, basketball games,
etc., you talk about our extra costs for police force, etc., um ... you know, during those
huge events, again, those are costs that we bear as a community, um, to help support
those kinds of things, and so yeah, they're paying sales tax while they're here.
Markus/ I see it kind of as a balancing of the table based on the, you know, the ... how TIF was
used, uh, predominantly in one or two communities, and now how sales tax returns some
of those dollars that were extracted from us, as well as the business being extracted from
US.
Hayek/ Dennis!
Bockenstedt/ Ready? Okay! (laughter) Uh, the final recommendation for use, um, by the
committee was for our affordable housing opportunities. Um, the committee also felt this
was consistent with the City's strategic plan priorities, uh, including (mumbled) inclusive
values and its healthy neighborhood priority. Um, the annual revenue that would go
towards housing opportunities would be about $900,000 to $1.2 million. Um, also in that
resident survey last summer, more than 36% of the respondents said that the City's
availability of affordable, quality housing was good or excellent, which was also below
the national benchmark, uh, for other communities. Uh, these funds could be used for,
uh, disbursed through other housing agencies, used for our affordable housing projects, or
be used by the Iowa City Housing Authority.
Botchway/ Hey Dennis, can you go back to the last ... oh, sorry, didn't mean to cut you off.
Bockenstedt/ That's all right!
Botchway/ ...the last slide?
Bockenstedt/ Which one you want, that one?
Botchway/ No, just the last one for streets. Okay, never mind!
Bockenstedt/ They ... in the survey, you know, when they got the results and people rated it, the
services as excellent, good, fair, poor, and they took those results and compared them
against all the other cities across the country that ... that do this ICMA survey, and ... in
...in the streets category, when they compared Iowa City's poll results, survey results,
against other communities, um, our street ... or maintenance fared poorly, much below the
same results from other communities. And for affordable housing, when that ... in that
comparison, between the results for affordable housing opportunities, Iowa City also
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fared lower than the other communities that conducted this survey, and this ... that's
what ... that's what the ICMA survey, it's a ... it's a national survey that's conducted by,
you know, hundreds of different entities and they can compare those results from entities
all across the country and ... and then these particular categories, um, Iowa City did not
fare very (mumbled) others we did fare very well, but in these two particular areas we did
not, uh, fare very well.
Payne/ But also it has to ... that has to do with somebody's perception. So (both talking) the
perception of the person that was surveyed, so if they have a... if they have a high
expectation... of what streets should be, I mean, we don't have really poor streets, I mean,
I've been some places that have some really poor streets (laughs) and I mean I wouldn't
necessarily say that ours are poor.
Bockenstedt/ No, you're right! And, you know, there's lots of things in the survey you have to
kind of take that a little bit for what it is.
Payne/ Right!
Bockenstedt/ Cause it is opinion, and if there's, uh, like we had a bad winter and there's a lot of
pot holes. Now this wouldn't have been the case last summer but if there's construction
or something that's happening in that person's neighborhood, it could impact the way
they would fill out the survey. You know, but... you know those same variables apply to
everybody completing the survey, for everybody that's doing it. So you would think
there would be some comparatives in that regard.
Botchway/ Well and kind of to Michelle's point, um, and I guess that's why I wanted to look at
the previous slide, because I thought I'd seen something but I think I read it wrong. Is
there any reason why, um, you know, affordable housing is at 10 and streets is at 30. I
mean, could there be, urn ... a change to increase affordable housing to have more of a
percentage, and... and again the reason why being, you know, uh, affordable housing
obviously affects, you know, different walks of life. It obvi ... I mean it affects our
working poor, but it also affects what I believe Mark Nulty spoke to us about the first
day, uh, I started, or around the first Council meeting I started. The economic, um, you
know, development opportunities. I mean, I'm ... as a young individual or ... put you on
the spot, you know, it matters where you live and how much you're going to pay for cost
of living, and I think we've ... we focused a lot on, you know, uh, bringing amenities and
bringing things to Iowa City, but we have not focused on, you know, what will actually
keep people here, urn ... uh, from just a housing perspective. Um, and so I don't know
what discussion went on regarding that but urn ... that's what I kind of want to...
Bockenstedt/ This is just the recommendation from the committee...
Botchway/ Right, right!
Bockenstedt/ ...the Council has discretion to ... to change whatever percentages it would want to,
and...
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Markus/ Let me ... let me jump in as well on this item. I ... when you look at roads, the road issue
is exclusive to Iowa City. When you look at affordable housing, the issue and this
Council has been very clear about this, is a regional issue. This is just what Iowa City's
recommending. It would be my recommendation, and I think we had this conversation at
the committee, that this be the same number, um, that the other jurisdictions — we can't
demand it but we can certainly ask and recommend that the other jurisdictions do the
same thing. And so that that would create a significant amount of money. I would say to
you too that I think these dollars create a revenue stream that heretofore has not existed.
And so I think that these funds can be leveraged against other state and federal dollars to
make some of these things happen for us in the long run. So, that's kind of where we
came from on that, and you know, you can change the numbers, Kingsley. You can, you
know, you can look at all that, but that's how we kind of came to that point. When you
get to the point if you could ... cause not all the other juris ... you know, not ... the other
items are more exclusive to the individual community. That particular item has the
potential to be doubled, tripled, um, by taking, you know, into account the other
jurisdictions and if we could get them on board to sub ... you know, to go that direction.
So it also then reflects, well maybe if...if you go too far, do you push people away from
the idea. But, we thought the 10% was a number that most people, um, you know, could
get on board with and could support, and so that's why we kind of ended up at that place.
Botchway/ And I agree with ... I guess I agree with your second point as far as ... well, I agree
with your second point. I guess your first point, as far as it being a regional issue, I know
that Council's talked about it, um, and ... has said it's a regional issue, but I ... I think I've
said I disagreed with that particular point, not ... not so much that ... overall yes it's a
regional issue. But, my fear is is ... you know, what if the other jurisdictions don't, and
you know, when we continually ... I ... I don't want to get into a ... a game of ... trying to
figure out what they're going to do, and in the same breath not ... set ourselves up for the
future where, again, this is a national trend, you know, affordable housing is a national
discussion. And we're kind of going back and forth trying to decide, you know, hey is
the other, uh, are the other cities going to do it or maybe they won't. Maybe they will,
but ... this is one of those areas where I feel like we could push forward a little bit more,
um, as an individual, as individual city because of how important it is, and how many
people we have, and what attracts people, I mean, Coralville doesn't have a downtown
right now. We have a downtown. I mean, Coralville doesn't have the University of
Iowa. They don't have, you know, the football stadium. They don't have a lot of the
different amenities that Iowa City has, and so ... I would feel like, you know, we ... we
have more and so from an affordable housing perspective, if we're able to push that...
push that initiative individually, um, you know, more people will come here, I mean, and
that goes back to, again, you know, the Mark Nolte point, um, about really helping us
keep that brain trust here because, you know, it's not so much about, you know, going to
different place and finding that better cost of living. That cost of living resides as soon as
you graduate from, um, college or graduate school, and I think we ... I don't know, I feel
like we seem to miss the point where we have a lot of stuff here and I just ... I don't have
the same optimistic, uh, maybe perspective that you do that the other cities are going to
take this plunge, um, towards affordable housing.
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Markus/ I ... I would say to you though, you know, on a relative scale that when you start to look
at different things, um, in terms of where employment centers are, the University
provides a very substantial, uh, pay package compared to a lot of the private sector
employees. And a lot of the positions that have been created in the retail markets,
especially in Coralville, correspond to, uh, incomes that would probably make them
eligible for affordable housing. And it seems to me that if you're going to ... if you're
going to build, uh, facilities that create jobs, that make you eligible for affordable
housing, one of the things you should have a corresponding responsibility to do is
provide affordable housing in the vicinity of those jobs. Which, you know, if you're
going to make `em walkable, bikable, then some of those... some of those affordable
housing units need to be in places where you've created, uh, jobs that don't necessarily
support housing alternatives for you. The other thing I'd say to you is when we had this
whole conversation, you know, we ... we got, people got wind of this and we talked to
some of the ... the providers in the community, and we talked about this very issue, and so
I think you're going to see some of those providers of affordable housing also talking to
the local government officials in those other jurisdictions about their obligation and their
duty to consider providing these things, as well. You're right. We can't force another
jurisdiction to do this, but ... I think when they see Iowa City stepping up to do this, I
think there's a chance that ... that they will ... they'll go that direction. And the ... the other
thing I would say to you is is making it exclusively our issue, I think sure we can push up
our percentage but ... I actually think you get a much better result if everybody's buying
into it. And, you know, there's going to be some that probably will fight it, but at 10% it
seems like the number is a reasonable enough number that people can buy into that, and
get behind that and support it. Okay? And those, quite frankly, and I'll be very blunt
about this, and those ... that would not support scattered site affordable housing, you
know, that number's not going to necessarily scare `em away. Start pushing that number
to higher amounts, you start to lose, you know, the diminishing return of supporters on
the other side of that too. Again, to me we don't have a dedicated revenue stream at this
point in time to support affordable housing. This is a first! I don't know that this has
been done in many places, if any place across this country, and for us to get to the point
where we could do this, you'd be a leader in that regard! To me that's worth a lot, to get
this thing going, and you get to renewal and you want to do more, increase the amounts,
and if you want to do more, use other resources to do more! You don't have to just rely
on this particular amount, but ... the reality is a lot of this comes down to what's palatable
to the public in terms of what they look at in a package and say whether this is going to
be acceptable or not. And so, you know, there's a bit of...kind of a marketing mindset
that you have to go into in looking at these things. Your public has to be convinced that
this is a good way to go about all of this. So, yeah, you can change the numbers, but
think about all those things when you get into that discourse about what the end numbers
are going to be.
Throgmorton/ I want to pick up on that (several talking) point, because I ... the ... the, uh, I'm
sorry, Matt, you were going to (both talking) Urn ... uh, I ... when I read the report, I
sensed, again, some ambiguity about how the affordable housing funds would actually be
spent over the forthcoming 10 years. Uh... so... so, that makes me anxious (laughs) as
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a ... as a person who wants to be thinking about whether voters would support, uh, what's
being proposed. I ... I think we need greater clarity about how those funds would be
spent.
Payne/ I...
Hayek/ Go ahead!
Payne / When I ... when a lot of people in the public hear the words `affordable housing,' they
think Section 8, and I think a lot of people won't vote for this if they think we're going to
spend $1.2 million a year on Section 8 housing. So, I think it's ... if the 10% we have to
market what affordable housing is — does it mean Section 8? Or does it mean what we've
been talking about affordable housing is ... all along, UniverCity type things? And I don't
truly think that that's affordable housing. I think that's a delusion that it's affordable.
So, to me affordable housing what does it really mean? I guess I'm kind of with Jim on
what do we mean by affordable housing here.
Dilkes/ You can, and we tried to do this some in the whereas clauses, but... and if you remember
the last sales tax, um, the ballot, the actual ballot language was quite broad, but in the edu
... educational pieces that were put out, um, we informed the public about what the
intention was with respect to the use of that money.
Payne / Right, and that's what I'm saying. I mean, it has to be ... there has to be education to...
what does this mean, and how will it be spent. Is it 1.8 million, or $1.2 million on
Section 8 housing? You know, is that what it means?
Dilkes/ And I ... I think you're absolutely right, there would have to be a major educational effort.
Markus/ And (both talking) and I think that there's going to be opportunities that are going to
present themselves. I would not lock yourselves in, just as Eleanor is saying, you don't
want the ballot language so tight that you can't consider things. You know, the ... the
reality is there's... there's a number of things in terms of Shelter House and ... and other
expansions of those services that this money should be eligible for. You have a Housing
Authority that covers the entire county. You have the, what is it the Johnson County,
um...
Mims/ Housing Trust.
Markus/ Housing Trust that covers the entire county! Um, there's lots of programs that ... that
not only could you own the housing in and... and resell it, or own the housing and rent it,
or subsidize, uh, private development that then underwrites, um, available housing
through... through that process. There's a lot of leveraging that can be done with these
funds. I think what we should define is what the income lev ... limits are in terms of what
the range is that we would provide the housing to, but I would not get myself so wound
into specific programs that you can't consider something we haven't even seen yet!
Going back to the origins of this discussion, you know, I've heard this conversation since
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I moved here, more affordable housing, more affordable housing! You know what? We
talk about it a lot, okay? We don't do as much about it as we should. And this is creating
for the first time a real revenue stream that goes to this purpose. I would hope people
would see this as a substantial change in our path, that we're trying to do something very
positive and forward.
Dickens / Are we locked in...
Payne/ I totally disagree (laughs) (several talking)
Dickens / Are we locked into these percentages?
Payne/ Totally! (laughs)
Markus/ No, you're not! It's your control (both talking)
Dickens/ Well I mean ... per year, or is this for the entire length of the...
Mims/ Be for the entire length, whatever is in the resolution.
Markus/ Yes, for the period of time.
Dickens/ So if you moved that to 15 %, you would raise about 450 to 600,000 more, take it away
from the streets you'd be ... I mean, just looking at different... different ways of doing it.
(both talking) I just wondered if it's set once you do it (several talking)
Hayek/ So ... so to answer Jim and ... and Michelle's questions, I mean, and this is kind of what
you're getting at, Tom. We're ... this is a preliminary discussion. We're not ... we're not
getting into the details in this meeting. I think it's more of a ... what's the sense of the
Council, are we interested in pursuing this, and... and we can take it up at a subsequent
meeting, in time to put it on November's ballot if that's ... if that's the route we go, but
also to your earlier point, you know, we talk about leading on this issue, and ... and Iowa
City doing more to lead. I agree with that, but I would also say we do lead. We, and we
have been leading for years. We ... we pay an inordinate amount ... we provide an
inordinate, uh, percentage of the human services funding and the housing funding in this
region, relative to population. Um, and you ... you see this every year in the budget cycle
where we look at what we're spending, uh, on ... on programs, whether it's services or
housing or anything related to it, and then we compare what we're doing with what our
neighbors are doing, and we adjust for population, and we see that Iowa City is ... is
shouldering the lion's share of that obligation. Um, and it has been a frustration to us,
because uh ... because the groups that are providing this, again and again look to Iowa
City to continue funding it, and in my opinion don't put enough pressure on our
neighbors to do their share. Hopefully that changes with time, um, but ... but we're the
ones doing most of this. It is a regional issue. You know, on ... on some level I'm torn
by ... by this because uh, you know, over the last year or two we've ... we've tried ... we've
initiative a process to engage these issues, the housing issue, on a more regional basis,
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and ... and we're bumping up against resistance, urn ... uh, actual resistance or just sort of a
lack of...of interest, um, and ... and that's a frustration to me, especially since so much of
the low -wage, um, job growth in this area is occurring outside of Iowa City, which is
precisely where, uh ... uh, the ... the housing needs are ... are occurring. They're occurring
here as well, but they're also occurring there. Um, I ... so I think leading ... I think
including, you know, 5 or 10% or whatever the number is, uh, and I could probably live
with 10 %, I ... I agree that ... I ... I, there will be a ... there will be a segment of the
population that will vote against this. Uh, but it's hard to gauge the political winds on
this, as much as we have to gauge the political winds because as much as we want to
create a ... a wish list of things to spend money on, the reality is if the public doesn't
support, uh, this, it doesn't matter what our percentages are. We won't get to do any of
it.
Mims/ Well and I think, you know, as ... as somebody who sat on that committee and listened to
this discussion, and first of all I want to ... um, say thank you to staff. I mean, staff did a
lot of heavy lifting on this in terms of the research and other ballot language and ... and we
had a lot of discussions about ... about the politics, which, you know, that's our decision
as a Council ultimately in terms of what these percentages are, but we had a lot of that
discussion about as we tried to come to some numbers to recommend to the Council,
what we thought ... had the best chance to fly politically in terms of putting this on a
ballot. And, given our property tax rate, we felt that, um, having the bulk of this for
property tax relief was one of the most important things that would generate support.
Um, and then secondly looking at that survey and people's concerns about the quality of
streets, that that was a huge one and affects everybody in the community, and certainly
affects us as we look at our budget long -term, and the fact that we can't stay up with the
maintenance that needs to be done. To the last one, the affordable housing, um ... we
talked a lot about that because I would agree with, you know, the comments that Michelle
is making and others there ... there is a population that will look at this and see money for
affordable housing and to them that is immediately a negative to them in terms of
supporting this. There are others who will look at this and say, why isn't it higher, we
need to do a lot more. And so that was a lot of...we spent a lot of time talking about that,
is ... where can we land on a number that will get us moving forward as even more of a
leader in some of these areas, and yet ... yet not ... push people away from supporting this,
because we have too large a number, and so yes, it is ... it is a balancing act. I think it gets
us started. Um, I think to Tom's comments, I think the other thing that it does is gives us
the potential to leverage a lot of other money... from the state and the feds, (mumbled)
we've got representatives here tonight from organizations who know about grant writing
and tax credits and other kinds of things that maybe this money can help them leverage
some things there. Um, and it also does ... it does not prevent us from still using general
fund money for some of these initiatives if things ... if something comes forward that we
really feel we want and need to do. Um, in terms of the ambiguity of the language, um,
yes, it is somewhat am... ambiguous, but I also think that is essential in terms of keeping
us flexible not knowing exactly what opportunities, um, are going to be there, whether
it's in the affordable housing area or in, you know, what we want or need to do in the
streets area. And so I think that's kind of some of the background discussion that the
committee had that got us to the point, this point, in terms of a recommendation.
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Throgmorton/ So ... so here's my way of thinking about these things. Uh, first I understand and
generally support the idea of adopting a local option sales tax. I completely get it, all
right? Then the question becomes how to spend the money. All right. So, my main
concern goes to a word that Tom used earlier — a sales tax is a regressive tax. So for me
as a basic principle, uh, the allocation of funds has to more than compensate for the tax's
regressivity. I have to be persuaded that that's the case. So ... uh, at the moment it's not
clear at all to me that that is the case. I'm especially troubled by allocating 60% of the,
uh, LOST funds toward (coughing, difficult to hear speaker) across the board, that's why
I asked this question, across the board property tax relief, including to commercial
establishments, that have just received a big tax cut from the state! So, uh, I ... I'm very
troubled by that. Uh, I think as a, you know, again I'm trying to gauge my sense of, uh,
the community's politics and all of that, I ... I think, um, cutting, uh, providing some
property tax relief does make sense. I'm troubled by the 60 %. I think ... we should find
some way to ensure that, uh ... well, we can't ... I'd like to see the ... the tax relief
dir ... more directed toward people basically in the lower half of the income bracket, but I
guess that's not possible. So set that aside, but I do think that the other two components,
like building healthier neighborhoods, doing a variety of things to strengthen the core
neighborhoods, I think that will help sell, uh, the proposal, and I think, uh, having a
substantial amount of funds, 10% sounds pretty reasonable to me, for affordable housing
will help sell it as well, but on the whole what I need to be persuaded of is that the regress
... regressivity is more than compensated for by the way the funds are allocated.
Dobyns/ Well, Jim, I think the leadership, um, and Susan, I thank you and Tom for your
committee's work on this because in a budget stressed environment that we're in, to be
able to deliver this sort of intelligent compassion, I think, is fantastic. I mean,
a ... potentially this goes through a million dollars a year, going for something that the
vast majority of cities never do! And the possibility of even more than a million dollars
through smart grant writing, uh, you know, synergizing with that. I mean, that's a million
or more a year! (both talking) I mean, that's fantastic!
Throgmorton/ I like that part of it!
Dobyns/ I mean, that's just amazing to be put toward that. Um, I think any less than that is not
being the kind of leadership that we want in Iowa City. Um, any more than that, I think
just isn't, um, is enabling surrounding municipalities. I think 10% is smart. I think the,
and essentially, Dennis, my sense is street improvement is indirectly, that's really tax
relief as well. So, um...
Bockenstedt/ There ... there is transfers from the employee benefits levy to the road use tax fund.
Dobyns/ So it's basically (mumbled) relief to do 10% over possibly a million dollars a year that I
see as an opportunity for compassion. Um, and I'm just really proud that this is going
forward.
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Hayek/ Can ... can I ask about the 60/30 split and ... and whether thought was given to ... having
that be, you know, 45/45 or ... or 50/40, you know, is (both talking)
Throgmorton/ 52/48 (laughter)
Hayek/ Yeah! Well that'd be a 100! (several talking and laughing)
Mims/ I would say ... (several talking and laughing)
Dickens/ 50/30/20! (laughter)
Mims/ I mean...
Hayek/ Can you just ... just give us some ... some of the context on that.
Mims/ I would say yeah, we definitely discussed what those breakdowns would be, and please,
anybody else jump in, um, but again, I think a lot of what we were looking at is if you do
60% property tax relief, urn ... it still frees up money that you can use in other ways, and
also we were looking at it from a... from a political standpoint. What do we think we can
get passed? And what do people want the most? And when you talk about economic
development and trying to attract good quality businesses, good employers to this area,
um, getting our tax rate down somewhat, which makes us more attractive to those good
employers. That's important. Um, to your homeowners of all income levels, um, you
know, that is a savings to them, as well, and so we thought that the 30% on the streets
would certainly help us, you know, gain some ground on the deferred maintenance that
we have there, and so it's ... is there a perfect distribution of those numbers? No. Uh, it's
just kind of where we landed in terms of what we thought was most salable to the
community, you know, justifiable and would still help us, you know, make some progress
on the streets.
Dobyns/ Susan, could you comment. There are some concerns that this ... if we approve this,
this'd go on this November's ballot, concurrent with the decoupled, um, courthouse.
Could you comment on your (both talking)
Mims/ Yeah, we had ... yeah, we had some ... some significant discussion of the pros and cons of
that at the committee meeting, and I was actually very pleased to see, um, to ... to read
Terrence Neuzil's comments in the paper the other day, where at least from his level as
the Chair of the Board of Supervisors he's looking at it from a potentially positive
perspective. Um, as we talked about it, each jurisdiction has, you know, writes their own,
um, resolution, their own ballot language, and divvies up the money they want. They
have the ... the Board of Supervisors has grave concerns about their property tax levy, like
for the rural area. If they followed something, you know, like we've done, they could do
considerable property tax relief in the county, and in fact when you look at population
and where the sales tax generators are, uh, I know one of the comments that was made in
the committee meeting is, the huge winner out of this thing under the current distribution,
uh, scenario would be the rural part of the county. Um, the rural residents would ... would
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really be the big winner on this, and so I think the Board of Supervisors are astute enough
to see that and hopefully, um, hopefully once they've had an opportunity to really discuss
it, we certainly hope that they will come out strongly in support of it, as well.
Throgmorton/ Michelle, I'm ... I'm wondering if you might want to comment more about what
you're thinking.
Payne/ I think that we have to agree on what affordable housing means for me to support this.
Botchway/ I agree, I mean, I think that's... sometimes the elephant in the room when we're
talking about affordable housing.
Payne/ And... 10% is the absolute max that I would support.
Botchway/ What about 55...30...15?
Payne/ Nope!
Botchway/ (mumbled) ...wanted to see if you'd change (laughter)
Payne/ You wanted to see if I can add? (laughter)
Botchway/ If you had said yes, I'd have been like, you know, that's what you said and so
(several talking and laughing)
Markus/ Kingsley, when you ask a question you want to know the answer but you want the
answer to be the one you want (laughter)
Payne/ A lawyer knows only to ask questions that they know the answer to, right? (laughter)
Throgmorton/ So, Michelle, we routinely hear from our excellent staff, uh, a standard definition
of what affordable housing means. 30% of household income. If you're expending more
on it, more than that on your household, uh, on housing, then it's not affordable to you.
Payne/ Perfect segue!
Throgmorton/ ... substantial fraction of the people are below 80% of median household income
cannot, or can't find affordable housing.
Payne / Right. Okay, so perfect income... perfect segue! So where in ... we're involved in this
UniverCity project. We sell something for ... to somebody for $180,000 that makes
$50,000. Does that compute? They're... that's not affordable! Cause they're...
Throgmorton/ That's never been characterized as `affordable housing' has it?
Payne/ It's not?
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Throgmorton/ I don't think so. It's been ... I understand it as a way of enabling people to...
Payne/ They have to meet an income level.
Throgmorton/ (both talking) ...to purchase housing...
Payne/ They have to meet a certain income level!
Hayek/ Yeah, but ... you know, Steve Long's gotten up and explained the ... I think it's HUD
criteria but (several talking)
Payne/ They have to meet an income level to...
Hayek/ ...he has explained that to us, and he acknowledges that it seems like it's a lot of house
for the income, but it is eligible under the applicable (several talking)
Payne/ So we're promoting... we're promoting people living like the federal government spends
money. So the federal government is trillions of dollars in debt, and we're promoting
households to be in, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. How is that
promoting a healthy neighborhood?
Hayek/ Well, listen, that's a fair point, but let me do this. Let me jump in, because (both talking)
27 after... it's 27 after. We've got about 12 minutes left and a few things left on our
agenda, and we're, you know, now we're getting into the minutia that I think a
subsequent meeting of the Council should... should deal with. I think ... I think what staff
wants is a general ... uh, sense of the Council, you know, do we want to pursue this, at
least to the next meeting (several responding) And ... and (several talking and laughing)
and drill in (several talking)
Dobyns/ We're excited and we want to hear the details.
Markus/ Okay, and ... and what we'll do is we'll come back with a ... um, a recommendation of
what we think affordable housing, um, the parameters should be, but what I would say to
the Council is, um, I think you want the flexibility, again, to fund within that full range of
what affordable would be, okay?
Payne/ I agree with you in that perspective because it may not just be somebody purchasing a
house. It may be somebody renting something.
Markus/ yeah, yeah!
Payne/ And there are more than just purchases, so...
Markus/ And we see the full gamut of... of programs that we would want to fund from rental to
ownership issues, all the way through that, going forward.
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Payne/ I think we ... I think we all agree that we need something for people in a certain income
bracket to be able to live...
Markus/ Right.
Payne/ ...and pay less than 30% of their income for housing.
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Payne/ ...yes, I don't disagree with that, but I don't think we're promoting that! (laughs)
Hayek/ So just the last comment I want to make before we move on on this, you know, assuming
we move forward and assuming there's a ... a component, let's say 10% on the affordable
housing, I will be asking you guys for authority to write a letter to our neighbors, strongly
encouraging them to take a hard look on this issue as they develop their language. Uh...
Mims/ I would encourage if Council is supportive of that that ... that we agree to that now, so that
you don't have to wait until our next meeting to do it, because it would... it would seem
to me...
Dickens/ ..already seen the papers come out...
Mims / Right, they've seen the papers. It would ... it would seem to me that...
Hayek/ I'll figure out the timing, but ... but...
Dobyns/ Yeah, we need (several talking)
Botchway/ So I'm good to go. Quick two things that I ... the reason why I wanted to discuss so
much of the percentages right now is ... cause I know you called me about the date, and
knowing that you need to approve the resolution, and our meetings, you know, I think we
cancelled two and so we'll have to...
Hayek/ Yep!
Botchway/ We'll have to dig in about it (several talking) And then the other issue is, I don't ... I
can't remember if it was in there or not, but a backup plan. So for example, if it doesn't
happen, what are we still, I mean, what are we going to plan on doing, um ... in regards to
property tax relief and everything else? I mean, I ... I guess that's...
Mims/ ...just be doing our budget next December.
Botchway/ Doing it the same way, okay.
Hayek/ Yep (several talking) Okay!
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Dilkes/ Can I just...
Hayek/ Go ahead.
Dilkes/ No, in terms of timing, so we've only got two meetings left, so the latest we can pass this
is the meeting at the beginning of August, so you're going to have to at your meeting...
Markus/ On the 15tH
Karr/ One meeting in August now, August 150'. (several talking)
Dilkes/ The meeting ... the meeting in August. So you're going to have to (several talking) arrive
at the language on your meeting in July.
Hayek/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ Matt, uh, I...
Hayek/ Go ahead, Jim.
Throgmorton/ I want you to understand I've raised some concerns that matter to me.
Hayek/ Yes!
Throgmorton/ All right. Yeah.
Hayek/ Yep!
Payne/ I almost think we need to have a meeting like we had last night and talk about nothing but
this. Not have other things on an agenda and try to do it before a Council meeting.
Botchway/ Great!
Hayek/ Well, what... what... what work session wise, I mean, we ... we just devoted an hour and a
half basically to this. Would an hour and a half dedicated to this at our next work session
get the job done?
Payne/ I just feel ... I feel rushed when we have to get out of here.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, it's a mistake to be rushed on something like this. I agree with you,
Michelle.
Payne/ I mean we cancelled one meeting in July so ... you know, can we just have a ... a two -hour
meeting? Like we did last night?
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Hayek/ Sure!
Dobyns/ But it has ... I think (mumbled) soon. I think we have to, as part of our leadership in this
area, I think we have to get our narrative out there quickly, and I wouldn't want this
deliberation delayed, and thus delay that leadership.
Botchway/ Well then that adds to the question, so Matt, you're sending the letter out, but you're
sending the...
Hayek/ I'm not sending ... I'm not ... I'm not going to send the letter out tomorrow. I want to see
where this leads. I mean, I (several talking) you know, but you're right. Your ... your
issue on the timing's right, cause these other jurisdictions will have to move on their end,
and submit by August 27th, so...
Dickens/ ...meeting on the 30th for evaluations (mumbled) stretch that?
Hayek/ That's a noon meeting (several talking)
Dickens/ I know it's a noon meeting, but...
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Dickens/ ...or do you want to do...
Mims/ Do it that...
Dickens/ ...the Monday night?
Throgmorton/ Yeah, late afternoon or night's better.
Dobyns/ Because the campaign for this starts now.
Mims/ Yeah.
Dobyns/ For November.
Dickens/ And I think the sooner ... the sooner the better, before July 1St, if we can work it in.
Markus/ So if...if the Council is committed to the performance reviews on the 30th, starting at
noon, Marian, um, is there any chance that you would be willing to stick around and
carry on a conversation post that? With a notice?
Karr/ Or previous to it, or change the time if noon doesn't work.
Payne/ I'll have to look at my schedule when we go in there.
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Mims/ I'm fine with that (several talking)
Karr/ So looking at reconstructing the 30th into something else than originally planned.
Markus/ Well, in addition to the performance reviews (several talking)
Karr/ Correct, I understand, but...
Hayek/ It would work for me that day.
Karr/ Yep. Okay. I'll get ... okay, why don't you check your schedules. (several talking)
Hayek/ Um, okay.
Dickens/ They don't think I work anyway so...
Information Packets:
Hayek/ Well we know you don't so ... thank you (laughter) to the committee and to staff and to
everyone who's uh, done ... done research on this. All right, let's blast through everything
else. The Info Packets were light, and we've already covered some of `em. First is the
June 5th
Mims/ I'm planning to go to the Iowa League of Cities meeting in September. Marian is making
or has made my reservations for that.
Payne/ Is that in Council Bluffs?
Mims/ Yes.
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ All right. June 12th Info Packet. The big items there were (both talking)
Karr / KXIC radio show. IP7.
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Karr/ I'm sorry?
Dickens/ July 161h
Hayek/ Gotta be quick!
Mims/ I'll take the 9th
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Hayek/ I can take the 251H
Karr / Whose got the 25th? Matt? (several talking and laughing) July 2nd
Mims/ I can do it if nobody ... I mean, I'll have two in a row (both talking)
Botchway/ I can ... I think I can do July 2nd.
Karr/ I'll put Kingsley down for right now.
Mims/ Okay.
Botchway/ yeah, I'll ... I'll be, yeah, I'll be here (mumbled)
Mims/ Okay. Okay. I've got the 9th then.
Karr/ Thanks!
Hayek/ All right. Council time.
Council Time:
Throgmorton/ Matt, I want to bring up Tate Arms, uh ... as you ... you and I both know, Matt, I
was going to propose that Tate Arms, that we look into seeking landmark designation for
Tate Arms and that we need to gauge Council, uh, preference about that, but I understand
there's some work, uh, taking place already, so maybe that's not necessary.
Markus/ Well, there's discussion with the, um, developer that's acquiring the property, and
whether we can transfer the density requirements to adjoining piece but I got a call today
and we're going to be doing (both talking)
Hayek/ ...too much into this.
Markus/ ... staff report on this issue which you can then discuss.
Throgmorton/ And even if there's a transfer of density, we'd still probably want to pursue...
Markus/ Designation.
Throgmorton/ ...landmark designation.
Markus/ I'll include that in the request (several talking) Yeah. It's ... it's required.
Hayek/ So why don't we just ... yeah, but we can't get into (several talking) it's not on the
agenda...
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Boothroy/ ...to transfer the density you have to have a landmark (both talking)
Hayek/ Okay. So if we can just get a staff memo or update at the appropriate time.
Markus/ We'll do that.
Hayek/ Good point, Jim! Sorry to truncate that discussion. Any other Council time items?
Dobyns/ Oh, okay, well for work session I was interested in asking you all if it'd be okay to put
on the work session extending the current state law, the new state law, regarding, um,
electronic cigarettes, alternative nicotine products. There are, uh, and our City Attorney's
office has already looked at it in a small way, but it is legal is my understanding for
municipalities in Iowa to at various levels extend the current, um, laws restricting vaping
products and alternative nicotine products for us to take a look at. Um, is that okay if we
put that on a future work session? `
Throgmorton/ I'd be willing to look into it (several responding)
Dobyns/ Thank you.
Dickens/ It almost sounds healthy! (laughter and several talking)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, have you started the e- cigars yet?
Dickens/ Not yet!
Dobyns/ Boy, I'm glad we're running out of time! (laughs)
Meeting Schedule:
Hayek/ Any other Council time items? All right. Meeting schedule. Just talked about that.
Pending work session topics?
Dickens/ You jumped in.
Hayek/ Jumped the gun on that. (several talking) Jump the shark! (laughter) Good cultural
reference. Kingsley won't know what it is. He's too young (several talking and
laughing) For the record that was Fonzie when he jumped the shark on water skis
towards the end of Happy Day's run (laughter) on television. (several talking) Yep!
(laughter) Coming events. All right, let's break and uh, we'll resume at 7:00 for the
formal. Thank you!
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