HomeMy WebLinkAbout2014-07-15 TranscriptionJuly 15, 2014 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Botchway (via phone), Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne,
Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Fruin, Dilkes, Karr, Andrew, Fosse Yapp, O'Brien, Howard,
Long, Bockenstedt, Panos, Moran, Gannon, Clow, Knoche, Rackis,
Ralston, Davidson, Boothroy
Others Present: McCarthy (UISG)
Agenda Items:
ITEM 13a JOHNSON COUNTY EMAIL RE LOCAL SALES TAX (LOST) —
CONSIDER THE REQUEST FOR INPUT FROM JOHNSON COUNTY
BOARD OF SUPERVISORS CONCERNING SUNSET OF LOST,
BALLOT LANGUAGE, AND LOST PROCEEDS TOWARD PAYMENT
OF THE COURTHOUSE ANNEX BOND, WHICH MAY INCLUDE
AMENDING RESOLUTION NO. 14 -207.
Hayek/ Got a lot to accomplish so let's get right underway. I want to welcome everyone. Uh,
the first item is, uh, questions from Council regarding agenda items. And might I suggest
that you ... we've got this late addition, uh ... uh, 13a on the LOST issue. Um...
Throgmorton/ Where did that come from? I ... I don't know (mumbled)
Hayek/ Well, we've had it for several days, but what I'm suggesting is that take that up in
connection with our joint meeting... bullet point later on in this... meeting.
Throgmorton/ Just so I can understand, what (both talking)
Hayek/ What I'm suggesting is that we discuss during the joint meeting bullet, which is the sixth
bullet point — the sales tax issues, which would include Item 13a, which was added late
last week to our agenda, to allow us ... to take action on that.
Throgmorton/ Sorry! I didn't see it.
Dobyns/ It's relevant to that, Jim. (both talking)
Hayek/ We'll talk about sales tax issues later. For now as to questions regarding agenda items,
let's just ... you know, entertain anything else on the agenda.
ITEM 2d(9) HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER (HCV) ADMINISTRATIVE
PLAN - RESOLUTION TO ADOPT THE IOWA CITY HOUSING
AUTHORITY'S HOUSING CHOICE VOUCHER (HCV)
ADMINISTRATIVE PLAN
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ITEM 2d(10) PUBLIC HOUSING ADMISSIONS AND CONTINUED
OCCUPANCY POLICY (ACOP) - RESOLUTION TO ADOPT THE IOWA
CITY HOUSING AUTHORITY'S PUBLIC HOUSING ADMISSIONS AND
CONTINUED OCCUPANCY POLICY (ACOP).
Throgmorton/ Well, uh, I have requests on Items, uh, 2d(9) (noises on mic; difficult to hear
speaker) 2d(10). 1 would like to have them pulled from the Consent Calendar cause I
know there's some people who would like to be able to speak to that topic.
Dobyns/ That's fine with me!
Hayek/ So why don't you make the motion, if you would?
Dobyns/ I'll second it. (laughter and several talking)
Dilkes/ You don't need a motion. Any person can pull it off the agenda.
Hayek/ Well but ... but I'm saying...
Karr/ When you adopt the reso ... when you adopt the Consent Calendar, just omitting those two.
Hayek/ Right!
ITEM 2c(21) Resolution to issue Cigarette Permit to Black and Gold Vapors, LLC,
dba Black and Gold Vapors, LLC., 440 Kirkwood Ave [Angela Anderson email];
Danais Investments, LLC., dba Almost Paradise, 355 S. Linn St.
Payne/ I had a question on... it's a letter that we received from Angela Anderson. Um... alls I can
tell you is that it's page 114. Does that help?
Mims/ That's the one about the e...
Karr/ That's regarding a cigarette permit that is being acted on, so it's in with permits and
licenses.
Payne/ Oh, it is in there? (both talking)
Karr/ It's on for action!
Payne/ Okay. Thank you.
Council Appointments:
Hayek/ Other agenda item questions? Plenty of Planning and Zoning items that we can't take up
anyway, so I'm sure there will be questions when we reach those ... items. Okay! I'm
gonna move on. Next item is Council appointments. Um...
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Mims/ We didn't email, urn ... get back to where I was. Highly recommending, urn ... (several
talking) Yeah.
Hayek/ Jacob Odegaard. Yeah.
Mims/ I mean, I thought they looked good, and without knowing (several talking) I kind of
picked one, another one ... a different one but she...
Dickens/ (both talking) ...been a trainer and everything (several talking)
Dobyns/ I didn't see the email but just looking at the three of them, I thought he was (both
talking)
Throgmorton/ Well I assumed it was from Chris Ogren and Chris is on the Airport Commission.
I have a lot of respect for Chris.
Hayek/ No, it was from someone else. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Well, I got a phone call from Chris.
Hayek/ Okay. So that ... in favor of...of him? (several responding)
Payne / And ... and he's in my Rotary so...
Hayek/ Well, say no more! (laughter)
Payne / And Tom's!
Dobyns/ Everybody's! (laughter)
Hayek/ I'll tell ... I know David Davis. Uh, he's on the CVB board with me and he's an excellent
person, um, and I think he'd be well qualified for this as well. Uh ... but I'm ... I'm
comfortable with Mr. Odegaard, especially he got the ... the recommendation from the
others.
Mims/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ So we also got one application from Jefferson Street, a position on the Historic
Preservation District, but he's not a resident.
Karr/ That's ... that is ... not a resident of the district. You'll have to readvertise.
Dobyns/ Who also applied for the other.
Karr/ Correct, but he's a citizen of Iowa City, just not in the district he's going to represent.
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Dobyns/ Right, I know, but I'm just saying I think (both talking)
Karr/ Uh huh, yes it is! It is the same one, yes. Correct!
Throgmorton/There are a few residents in ... in the district, right? Small number but a few.
Karr/ A few residents in the district?
Throgmorton/ In the Jefferson Street (both talking)
Karr/ Yes! Yes, uh huh.
Throgmorton/ We've been, what? Six months into this or more?
Hayek/ More than that.
Throgmorton/ So should we readvertise (several responding) making it open to someone that's
not a resident? That's legally possible to do (both talking)
Karr/ I'm not quite sure on the Historic Preservation District.
Dilkes/ I ... I don't know. We'd have to look at that. I ... I think there are some statutory
requirements for who serves on the Historic Preservation Commission and ... Iowa law
requirements. So I don't know if that's possible.
Hayek/ Could ... could you look at that? Cause if we do have an option of opening it up, beyond
the confines of that district.
Dilkes/ Sure!
Hayek/ We've been trying to fill this for ... a year or two.
Dickens/ Since we put it in.
Payne/ Yeah. At least a year. I would think — it seems like (mumbled)
Hayek/ Okay. Thanks, Eleanor. I think that's it for appointments, since that, uh, that ... one is
ineligible. Okay. Next item is 2014 Flood Update!
Dobyns/ Come on up, Rick! (laughter)
2014 Flood Update:
Fosse/ Yes! Yes! So we ... we have three items to get through tonight. We've got the flood
update, uh, Gateway, and then also the discussion of the, uh, Riverfront Crossings Park.
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And so that's a lot of the stuff in here. We're going to try and be done with Gateway by
10 after 6:00 (clears throat) Excuse me! Uh, but Jeff and I talked about a safety valve, if
we run out of time that the, uh, the Riverfront Crossing project is also on the formal
meeting tonight. So we can squeeze it onto there. (clears throat) Sorry! See if I have
enough voice to get through this tonight! (coughing) Sorry! So the, uh, it ... this is the
2014 flood or the `here we go again' flood. (laughter) At the time I sent out the memo
last week, it was tied neck -in -neck with last year's, uh, flood, the 2013 flood, and over
the weekend with the rains that we got on Saturday, it bumped it up so that it is now
the ... the third, uh, largest flood of record (clears throat) Um ... what I'm ... hold on just a
second here.
Dobyns/ He drank some floodwater, I think! (laughter)
Payne/ Yeah! (laughs) Needs a drinking fountain!
Fosse/ Sorry `bout that! So the, uh, what I'm showing here is the hydrographs from the 2008
flood and the 1993 flood, and what I've superimposed on ... I don't have the hydrographs
from last year's flood or this year's flood, but I do have the peaks. So I'm showing those
on there, and you can see last year's flood, uh, was at ... was at 19,200 and this year's is
up at 19,900 cfs. So ... as I said, the third largest flood of record. The amazing thing for
this, thank you, is that in between, uh, last year's flood and this year's flood, uh, you look
at the drought monitor and on, uh, New Year's Eve we were in a severe drought here in
Iowa. So, you know, what's with that? Can't quite figure out what's going on with the
weather, but ... uh, we're ... we're certainly experiencing extreme there. Uh, so I'll take
you through the ... the events as they happened this ... this year. Uh, stared out June 16th.
We had a thunderstorm come through with high winds that took, uh, part of the roof off
our new sludge storage building down at the south wastewater plant. So that was... that
was the beginning of the flood, or of the adverse weather for us, and then, uh, on June
30th we got our first heavy, locally heavy rain, and this is a shot down at our south waste
water treatment facility, and when we located the plant down there, it was not in a
mapped flood plain, but given our experience down there when we did our upgrades this
time, we wanted to make sure that we're protected against, uh, potential flooding down
there. So we did a... a hydraulic analysis of it all and elevated the electrical system to
well above where the floods are so that we can continue to operate down there, in these
types of situations. And it worked very well, uh, where we were done, but the one piece
that we weren't done yet on is where the, uh, electrical supply comes into the ... into the
south plant down there, cause we're waiting from parts ... for parts from the old plant that
are going to move down there. So, in the middle of the night we had to deploy 360 feet
of HESCO barriers to protect that ... that, uh, power supply and keep the plant operational
through the evening, and our staff did a remarkable job of getting those all deployed and
...and protecting that and pumping it out between, uh, about 10:00...10:00 P.M. and 3:00
A.M. for that, and I want to show you the difference, uh, what a difference the additional
capacity makes down at that waste water plant. Uh, I remember showing you last year,
this is the equalization basin where excess flows go when more water's coming in than
we can treat. Uh, similar storms last year to this year, you can see it was going down the
overflow last year. This year we have plenty of room to spare. So that additional
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capacity is paying off. Uh, Dubuque Street is under water, and we'll talk more about that
later. The most common question I get is, if we ... if we had elevated Dubuque Street to
the elevation that is proposed, would it be above the flood waters, and the answer is yes it
would, by a significant margin. The new elevation will protect up to about 32,000 cfs.
We're experiencing just over 19,000 cfs in this flood, so ... plenty of room to spare there!
Uh, we did need to deploy, uh, protection in some of our neighborhoods, and specifically
in two areas where we have flood mitigation projects underway. Uh, this is down at the
Westside levee, uh, we deployed gabions here last, or not gabions, HESCOs here last
year, as we did again this year cause the project is ... is about half done. Uh, we had to
work quickly to get those deployed because the river is coming up and it wasn't long
after we got `em constructed, the water was against the HESCOs and they're protecting
that neighborhood down there. That will be protected by the levee when we're done with
that project. Uh, what I wanted to show you is, uh, this is on the dry side, if you will, of
the ... of the HESCO barriers and you can see the water that's seeping underneath those
through the ... through the soils and that's why when you build a levee, there's... there's a
key that goes down into the ground, it's like an upside down levee that's buried, that
protects the ... the, uh, water from going underneath it, or protects the soils from the water
that wants to go underneath it. And when you get this much water coming underneath
your ...your barrier, you begin to worry about soil stability and ... and hence the safety of
the people protected by that. So what we did is we set up a number of, uh, survey control
points on that HESCO barrier and we go out daily and we use the laser emitted by our
survey machine, or survey instrument, and we track the x, y, z coordinates down to
1 / 100th of a foot. So we can detect if... if any... any movement is happening down there
and whether or not we need to be concerned about the people that are on the backside of
that. So far it's staying put and we feel good about that. Uh, there's debacles with every
flood - fighting effort, and ... and this year's was that, uh, some ... some local folks filled an
intake full of sandbags, uh, intending to protect their area, but they were mistaken on
where they were putting them, that ... that actually put them at more risk and also put, um,
McCollister Boulevard at risk. So this is how a couple of our employees spent their 4th of
July, with a long stick with a hook on it, fishing 400 wet sand bags out of (several
responding) intake. (laughter) ...a bad day! Um, this is the pump house for the
Westside levee. So this is, uh, what happens when you get caught mid - project with a
flood mitigation project. Also down at, uh, the Rocky Shore Drive project, they were
able to get their equipment up on the railroad grade, and this crane actually built a ... a
platform for it to go on, uh, to keep it out of the floodwaters. So without those ... those
permanent protection measures in place, we needed to bring in, uh, pumps and uh, the...
those are ... are problematic. This is ... this is why we like to go with permanent things.
Uh, one of the problems in pumps is capacity. You just don't have the same capacity you
do with the ... with the permanent installations, and also pumps are prone to mechanical
problems, mechanical failures. So you need to have people out constantly keeping an eye
on things and ... and fixing stuff as ... as it goes wrong. Uh, that's a shot of Lower City
Park and Riverside Theater. Uh, this is a shot of, uh, one of our trail systems going
underneath the bridge and ... and our trail system's interrupted at each of those points
where it goes underneath the bridge, and I wanted to include that cause that's part of our
discussion later tonight with the Gateway project. Um ... in the backwaters, uh, where
...where (laughs) the floodwaters are, the ... you can see a lot of mosquito larvae, so that's
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probably what is ... is ahead for us, and ... in the coming weeks is, uh, more mosquitoes.
Um, looking out ... oh, one of the things that ... that really helped us this year with the
flood and ... and helped us last year as well is the, uh, the web site that the ... the
University of Iowa, Iowa City, and National Weather Service worked together and
partnered on to put in place so that the public can see the same dashboard that we're
looking at in making our decisions, and they can see what the forecast is for the river.
They can dial in different river elevations and look at inundation limits. Has significantly
cut the number of phone calls that we get. People are able to make decisions for
themselves and act on those decisions (several talking in background) uh, independent
from the City, and that ... that's a good thing! Um, looking out, uh, forward, this is
today's forecast for the river. So tomorrow they're projecting to drop it by 3,000 cfs
down to 15,000 and hold that until Saturday, and then drop it to 12,000 cfs, and at that
point we should be able to get in and begin to clean up the southbound lanes of Dubuque
Street and do a damage assessment, and if it's in good shape, which it has been in past,
uh, floods, we'll be able to put in place the, uh, traffic control for two -way traffic in those
southbound lanes. And that will remain that way until the, uh, University is done
demobilizing their ... their, uh, HESCOs in front of the Mayflower. So that'll continue to
stair -step down, as long as we continue to have good weather. Uh, you look at the five -
day, uh, cumulative, quantitative precipitation forecast and it has not looked this dry in a
long time. We've got nothing projected at Iowa right here. Uh, to the contrary we'd had
these bullseyes on us for the last month, and that's what contributed to the flows. So, as I
wrap up and open it up to questions, I want to make sure and acknowledge all the work
that our ... our staff has been doing to make this, the ... the third largest flood of record,
seem like a routine response. They've just done a ... a remarkable job out there and I'm
very proud of the work that they do. Um, any questions on this?
Payne/ I have a question on those, um, temporary pumps.
Fosse/ Uh huh.
Payne/ I thought of this when I was driving by the ones, um, on Rocky Shore Drive. I'm
assuming they're diesel?
Fosse/ Yes they are.
Payne/ So we have to have some truck go there frequently and fill up a diesel tank so they keep
running, is that how it works?
Fosse/ Yes! It's not that frequent though. They're... they're pretty efficient pumps. But, uh,
what we found is we pretty much have to keep somebody at those sites all the time, just
because of mechanical problems. So it's ... we do have folks, but I'm sorry, where we
going with that?
Payne/ That was the only question. My thought was, how do we keep these running 24/7?
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Fosse / Right! It's ... it's having people out there, and ... and the pumps that'll go in the permanent
installations are electric. So that...
Payne/ Oh, great! Excellent!
Fosse/ Yeah! (laughter)
Hayek/ We thought you'd be happy about that! (laughter)
Mims/ Well, you answered my first question right off the bat, with the 32,000 cfs for the ... for
the new elevation of Dubuque Street, and then I just wanted to say thank you for, um, for
everything staff has done and the prompt response when I contacted you about the light
at, uh, Foster and Dubuque and changing that to flashing red. Um...
Fosse/ Oh, you're welcome!
Mims/ People who live out in the Peninsula were getting a little frustrated having to sit there at a
red light with the road closed, so ... that was a very quick response and they appreciated it.
Fosse/ Good!
Hayek/ I ... I'll mention this tonight for the viewers, to give staff some kudos, but ... but I think
I'm the only one who was on this Council in 08, and ... I mean the ... the level of
engagement by the Council and ... and panic down at City Hall in 2008 was ... it was
incredible contrast to the discipline with which we, you know, responded, and it was
staff. I mean, you didn't need us and... and... and it was just night and day difference!
Um, and I know ... I know it was worse, but ... but, uh ... you know, what a ... what a
difference six years make.
Fosse/ Experience pays off! (laughter and several talking) We're really breaking in our new
Streets Superintendent in a ... in a big way this summer!
Hayek/ Yeah!
Fosse/ (laughter) Right in the deep end!
Throgmorton/ So, uh, before you, uh, run off.
Fosse/ Uh huh!
Throgmorton/ Uh, I need to say that I have temporarily at least lost faith in the Corps' ability to
manage the Res! Based on the last two floods. Based on the weather conditions that
existed before, during, and after the floods. And when I say that, I'm definitely not
blaming any particular individuals at the Corps. What I am doing is questioning the
Corps' operational plan, which we all know is at least 20 years old or there... roughly 20
years old, and out of date. Uh, I believe it needs to be changed, but, A... given the way I
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began that, by saying I'm, uh, I've lost faith in the Corps' ability to manage the ... the Res,
what I would, uh, like to see and suggest that we invite the Corps to do, is brief us and the
public on its management of the last two floods, you know, what conditions they faced,
how they were constrained, uh, what they felt they could do, and couldn't do, uh, and
therefore what the consequences were, from their point of view.
Fosse/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ So ... and when I ... make this point, I'm not speaking only for myself, cause I've
heard it from a lot of people. All right, so, there you have it!
Fosse/ Yeah, we can extend that invitation, and ... and it's a good question and if.. if you have
just a minute we'll ... we'll look at three slides. I thought I'd do some quick Monday
morning quarterbacking of the Corps' performance this year, and ... and show you what
I've observed so far. And ... and what ... what we look at is what was going into the
reservoir, uh, at the peak of this flood, and what we saw at the Marengo gauge was
32,600, which is roughly equivalent to ... well, actually is bigger than the ... the 93 flood
that ... that we experienced. Um, now what came out of the reservoir was 18,400. So
what the reservoir did for us is it knocked 44% of that flood peak off. And the Corps not
very good at...at tootin' their own horn about that sort of thing. So I wanted ... wanted to
make that point, and then, uh, went further and looked at...at reservoir levels, leading
into this. And what I've observed that they've done is they've done a very good job of
staying at the normal, uh, conservation pool. And especially given that June was...
especially north of us, was one of the wettest Junes on record, that there could have been
a tendency to drift up during this period, and then at the beginning of the flood event,
take off from there. Uh, but what you see is they did a good job of holding at the
conservation pool level until the onset of this flood. So ... first ... first blush review of the
data that's out there online, I feel pretty good about their performance this year.
Payne/ One ... (clears throat) one thing also during the heavy rains we had on the weekend, when
all the creeks were backing up and getting full, didn't they back off on what they were
letting out to let those creeks drain down?
Fosse/ Yes they did, and what you can see, this is the hydrograph of what's coming out of the
reservoir, and this dip represents, um, that weekend, this last weekend, and that's all
based on procedures that were put in place after the 93 flood and telemetry that went out
there because what we found is the flows can... contributions from Clear Creek and Rapid
Creek, in conjunction with what comes out of the reservoir, can really hammer us down
here. So what they do is, they throttle back at the reservoir as the creeks are coming up
and they offset each other, so the flow through Iowa City stays relatively constant.
That's... that's the biggest change that came out of the 93 event.
Dobyns/ So, Rick, if you super- imposed inflow and outflow on the same graph, when would you
have the biggest differential, in terms of...when, in other words the pool would be filling
up?
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Fosse/ (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...I'm looking ... I'm taking a look at obviously just the week before, prior for the
holiday.
Fosse/ Uh huh.
Dobyns/ Um, it was significant outflow above 20... cfs. (both talking) ... go to the other one, and
you know, that's up to 20,000. Go back one.
Fosse/ It ... I will point out that it takes about a day and a half (both talking)
Dobyns/ Sure! Yeah, I know there' a latency, yeah.
Fosse/ ...so you extend that out, and that lines up about with July 4th. So they ... they were
ramping up in... in anticipation of that peak that was coming down from Marengo.
Dobyns/ So from July ... June 27th on, there was a (mumbled) more inflow than outflow, even,
um, accommodating the latent fact of river flow.
Fosse/ Yes.
Dobyns/ And they kept the pool the same? Can you go back in your pool ... I'm just...
Fosse/ Pool, there we go! Uh, this is not ... the gradations make it hard to draw the individual
days but (both talking)
Dobyns/ Okay!
Fosse/ ...July 1 they're... they're already up at this point ... on their discharge.
Dobyns/ All right. I was trying to figure out, uh ... okay, so they held it as long as they could
but...
Fosse/ And if you go back here and look at this (both talking)
Dobyns/ All right, I see it. Okay.
Fosse/ ...notch, it's a big version of this notch, and this was done because (both talking)
Dobyns/ So they ... I see that from June 17th, and taking a look at this, Jim, I'm trying to think
what their management. From June 17 to June 24, they anticipated, I guess, or just
guessed lucky, that they saw the flow on the Iowa River basin, from Marshalltown on up.
Fosse/ Uh huh!
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Dobyns/ And they, um ... then started letting water out of the pool, way below flood, from June
17 to June 25, in anticipation of the river flow coming down. So they could maintain the
pool, um ... as low as they could in anticipation of the big flood.
Fosse/ Yes, and then this notch that you see here was to let the peak on the Cedar pass. Because
it was reaching the tops of the levees down by Columbus Junction and...
Dobyns/ Yeah (both talking) because I guess the ... and I know it's easy to go and, you know, the
Corps is asleep. It's easy to blame the Corps.
Throgmorton/ Well that's because there's a dam upstream and it's the only river in Iowa that has
a dam upstream.
Dobyns/ Yeah, but, uh, honestly (mumbled) I have the same intuitive feelings as well, but I'm
taking a look at this and someone's awake! At least at the end of June!
Throgmorton/ Oh for sure, yeah (both talking)
Dobyns/ There's someone in there raising and lowering the, uh, the (mumbled)
Mims/ Well, and the fact that they're looking at a much bigger geographical area than just Iowa
City.
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Mims/ I mean, they're looking at a lot more than just us in terms of making their decisions.
So...
Dobyns/ Yeah. Yeah, they're looking past Marshalltown, so ... okay.
Mims/ And down to the Mississippi too.
Throgmorton/ Given the fact that, I believe it's a fact, that there's a wide - spread belief among
many people in Iowa City's public ... that, uh, the Corps intentionally left the pool high in
order to please boaters. I think on that ground ... on those grounds alone, it would be wise
to invite them to speak — them being the Corps — to speak publicly to us and the public
about how the Corps manages the Res. And then a related aspect, uh, of my question
really had to do with last year's flood. Uh, maybe I don't remember correctly, but my
recollection is that we were in the middle ... it turns out we were in the middle of the 18-
month drought that you referred to, but we got one day of like seven inches of rain, and
then, you know, that seems ... it just seems implausible that we would end up
experiencing a flood in the middle of a drought. So how in the world did that happen?
Surely the Corps folks could come in, tell us, tell the public how they manage the Res
under both conditions.
Fosse/ Uh huh. I can extend that invitation if you all...
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Throgmorton/ Well, it's up to everybody else, but uh, you know...
Payne/ I think it's a good idea because it's probably lack of understanding, rather than poor
management, and just understanding their processes and procedures would probably be
beneficial for a lot of people.
Mims/ Yeah, I would agree if they're willing to do it.
Botchway/ Same here.
Throgmorton/ A ... a related... that's great! Thank you! A related aspect of that is, if the Corps...
if the local Corps officials... also believe that their operational plan needs to be updated,
which I ... I think they also believe. Then, uh, they would have an opportunity to ... re...
indicate to us how the operational plan led them, forced them to make certain kinds of
decisions, which in retrospect may not have been such great decisions. I don't know! I
mean, I'm not a ... a dam manager. (laughter) (mumbled)
Hayek/ Dam Professor! (laughter)
Fosse/ I think I heard four. Should I...
Hayek/ I ... I think ... I think that's okay. I mean, you ... you know, if for nothing else than to...
than to clear the air...
Mims/ Right!
Hayek/ ...um, but I do want to be mindful of our re ... uh, relationship with the Corps, which...
Fosse/ Uh huh.
Hayek/ ... as far as I can tell is a good one and... and, you know, we communicate with them
about the impact on our tributaries and flooding to neighborhoods that are well, you
know, that are ... blocks if not miles away from the Iowa River, uh, where they ramp it
down to give us protection during flash floods and stuff like that, and so we ... we need to
maintain a relationship with them. I don't want to impact that.
Payne/ To me it's more like education and to dispel urban myths.
Hayek/ Right. (laughter) And I think there's ... to Susan's point, I mean, the ... there are a lot of
interlocking pieces here, uh, and they have to be worried about, you know, flooding in
places like Columbus Junction and ... and elsewhere, uh, and in any event, Jim, I would
suspect that change, were it to come, would... could only come through a federal medium.
I mean, this is ... they ... they report to Congress.
Dobyns/ (mumbled) ...excite me!
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Hayek/ Yeah! (laughter) So ... okay, let's (several talking) keep moving here. Hey, Kingsley,
are you still with us?
Botchway/ Still with ya! Listening.
Hayek/ Okay, great!
Discuss Aesthetic Components of Gateway Proiect:
Fosse/ Well let's move on to the ... the Gateway project now. And this is our, uh, I believe our
sixth work session on the Gateway project, and what our objectives are tonight is to
review the activities that have happened since our April work session, uh, discuss some
design issues, and discuss parameters for the aesthetics and the landscaping treatments.
And ... and a couple of points along the way that we would like to get direction from you
tonight, if it's possible, and that is, uh, seeking some direction on the alignment, uh, and
the sidewalk in that north area on the east side. If you recall, we reviewed 71 design
parameters last time. We made decisions on 70 of `em. This is one that we ... that we did
not, and what we've done is worked on the alignment to create more room up there, to,
uh, to ... well, I'll let them show you. To ... to make more space for that. And then also to
look at our trail options along the retaining wall, and how that fits into our future and, uh,
where we want to go with that direction. So at that point, or at this point, I'll turn it over
to HNTB. You've met them all before, so I'll save the introduction times and I'll turn it
over to Mark!
Pearson/ Good evening (both talking)
Dobyns/ Welcome back! (several talking)
Pearson/ Thank you! It's good to be back!
Dickens/ We missed you! (laughter)
Pearson/ I appreciate that. I don't have any cool hydrographs tonight. I do have some cool
before and afters maybe! That we can talk about here in a minute. And as Rick
mentioned, we did want to talk with you about some design updates that we've made, uh,
and he mentioned, this is really going to be first focused on the area kind of north of
Mayflower in the vicinity of the Cliff Apartments, looking at some alignment
issues ... that we were looking at to possibly accommodate sidewalks along the eastside of
Dubuque Street, and pull impacts and those sidewalks out of residential properties and
keep it within existing right -of -way. Uh, and then later we're going to talk a little bit
about the retaining wall along Dubuque Street towards the southern end by Park Road,
and some trail options there that we would like some guidance on this evening, and then
in addition we're going to talk just at a conceptual level about some of the aesthetics
and ... and ... and start thinking about what the look of the project is going to be, just give
you an update on what we're thinking in that regard. And we'll try and do that all in the
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next 35 to 40 minutes so you can get to the rest of your agenda this evening and not
lengthen the actual Council meeting. Uh, I just mentioned, we're going to look at the
vicinity of ..of, from Mayflower to Taft Speedway first. Uh, some of the goals that we
were considering in the realignment (noises on mic) I already mentioned the ... the, take a
look at the sidewalks along the eastern side of Dubuque Street to see if we can get it
within existing right -of -way. Uh, there's some improved intersection geometry that we
can point out so that you get things lining up perpendicular and you improve sight lines
for drivers, uh, minimize residential impacts, um ... looking at... at design curves to help.
We talked about that transition from 35 miles an hour to 25 miles an hour. We can talk
about where that point is and how the curves can help, uh, give drivers kind of that visual
cue to be slowing down, as well, uh, and work through some of those things. So, first
we're going to go from Foster and travel down towards Mayflower, just to orient
ourselves. So at the top of the ... the graphic here would actually be looking kind of east,
southeasterly. So, this is at Dubuque and Foster. This is the alignment that we had
showed you previously. Uh, there's a little driveway you can see ... that little dotted
line ... dash line where the NEPA boundaries, and that little driveway stub is 1818 N.
Dubuque Street. So you can see where the sidewalk was in... in the vicinity of that
property. The white lines are the parcel lines. So this was ... before we looked at
realignment, this would be how we pull the roadway away from the property. You can
see that the sidewalks... it's a little tough to pick up, but that gray of the sidewalk is
actually on top of the, uh, current northbound lanes, away from the property. (unable to
hear person speaking in background) I will! It gets kind of dangerous with me pointing
this (laughter) around! I know. (laughter) So, the realigned sidewalk falls along here.
It's even better if you kind of pick up that green parkway, between the sidewalk and the
street. Whereas before it was coming down like this and ... and clipping the property. So
we pulled it away from ... from that property a good 10 to 30 feet. The other net benefit
of that is we're able to eliminate retaining wall through that stretch, which we know was
a concern, and uh, provide a gentler slope. There would be some... some regarding
through that stretch, but we've gotten rid of the retaining walls, and would be able to
accommodate sidewalks within existing City right -of -way. Moving, uh, to the south, not
much change here, um, at Dubuque and Taft Speedway, other than as I mentioned, uh, we
were able to line the intersection up a little bit better, make it more perpendicular to
improve sight lines through there, as well as keeping, uh, the spacing in there so vehicles
that were wanting to turn onto northbound Dubuque Street would have an oasis here, and
likewise if you were northbound Dubuque wanting to turn onto Taft Speedway,
you'd ... you'd still have that oasis there. Even though we pulled it away from the,
um ... from the east, from where we were before. Um, there may be some additional
impacts into the park space, but nothing too great, and as you can see, it's all within area
that we had cleared previously because we would be doing drainage work in that area,
related to the project, anyway.
Payne/ And that's the Cambus turnaround too, right?
Pearson/ Um ... no! We'll get to that in just a second (both talking)
Payne/ Okay!
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Pearson/ So, and there... there's current, there's where you can see, especially in the bottom left
of the graphic where it's pulling away from ... from the properties... along east side of
Dubuque Street. Here's where the Cambus turnaround is. So this is before, um, you can
kind of see the existing Ridge Road intersection is basically right here and there's the
driveway to the, um, to the boathouse and Terrell Mill Park. Um, one of the things we
wanted to accomplish in this area was also help out the residents at this ... at this property,
uh, get their driveway realigned. We also wanted to give a little bit of extra spacing here,
so Ridge would line up better with Dubuque Street, and again, allow the drivers to get
turned and orient themselves so that they have better sight lines, uh, with oncoming
traffic on Dubuque Street, and again, provide that oasis here for the Cambuses to turn
around, as well for other, uh, drivers to be able to, uh, make turns into and out of the
park.
Hayek/ Mark, I know this is not before us this evening, but I keep looking at the green and I'm
wondering is there a point during this process where we discuss vegetation and plantings
and...
Pearson/ Yes! In fact... hopefully in about 10 minutes we'll start to talk about that!
Hayek/ Ah! I was (mumbled) (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Mark, is this the current recommendation?
Pearson/ This is where we were at the last time we talked (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...yeah.
Pearson/ This is what it would look like with the realignment. So, uh, a couple things. It
basically keeps the intersection on its existing location. It helps us keep the driveway in
its general vicinity. That helps us, uh, protect as many trees as we can through here. Uh,
there ... I don't think it shows up on here, but there is that sculpture that's ... right over in
this area. Um, hopefully we can keep it in its existing location. We might have to move
it a little bit but I know the ... the staff want to keep it in the park, but it would make it
much easier to try and keep it in its existing location with this realignment than it would
be, uh, with what I showed you a moment ago. Uh, also ... we are able to do this without
encroaching into the Cliff Apartments' property, which we had not done previously.
We're trying to minimize impacts where we've had them before, without incurring new
impacts elsewhere, cause that just creates problems. Um, but ... so we were able to get
that realigned. We're able to keep the grades here from encroaching on ... on adjacent
properties. We got, uh, the driveway aligned, excuse me, and then talking with the
property owners, uh, are able to maybe also give them just a little bit of frontage that they
don't have currently. Their ... their house is almost right on top of Ridge Road, uh, even
an five feet, they're very appreciative if they can pull Ridge just a little bit further away.
It also keeps, uh, head... headlights coming out of the park from sweeping across their,
uh, their living room in the evening, whereas where we had it before, you can see it's
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almost straight... straight at their house, and then sweeping across. So they were very
appreciative, uh, with ... with this realignment option, uh, that benefit to them, and then
like ... as I mentioned, the uh, park entrance is pretty much where it is currently. Here's
what we were showing previously at Mayflower. Um ... there is a little bit of a skew here.
And, some storage for ... for the buses, pizza deliveries, whomever... visitors, urn ... what
we did with the realignment... was extend ... it so it's more parallel with Mayflower. We
also created, uh, kind of a demarcated area for ... for uh, taxis or delivery vehicles here,
with a little bump -out that gives the drivers on northbound Dubuque a visual cue that
there's something going on. We got the crosswalks lined up so that they're perpendicular
with the traveled way. Here and here. Uh, and extended it a little bit more so that the
buses have approximately three bus, uh ... storage room for three buses in this ... in this
stretch. Uh, going back to 1818 N. Dubuque Street, I'd mentioned as one of the things
that we had done was pull away the, uh, impacts of the sidewalks and the retaining walls
away from the property. We'd also been talking with ... with the land owner, uh, about
some different driveway options, um, and have been talking through those with ... with
him, and you can see there's several options, one of which goes straight up to where his
upper pad is and where you can see the vehicle there, where he parks vehicles. One that
ties in where the existing pad is today, a couple different options there. So we've been
working with the property owners through that stretch of Dubuque Street, talking to them
currently about driveways and how that realignment would function. And he seemed ... I
hadn't seen him here yet this evening, but, uh, staff had reported that he was pretty
pleased with a) getting the sidewalks off the property, potentially, as well as giving him
some ... some options here for ... for driveway connections, so ... just wanted to point that
out. So ... in summation real quick, there's a variety of things that realigning that stretch
of Dubuque Street accomplish. Uh, mostly oriented towards minimizing the impacts for
the residents along there, getting things lined up better at Mayflower for buses and
delivery vehicles, as well as providing, uh, I think a better pedestrian crossing through
that stretch, uh, just getting it lined up so it's more, again, perpendicular with the traveled
way so that, you know, the pedestrians are more aware of the vehicles. The vehicles can
see them, especially with that bump -out. Uh, we're pulling, um, things away from the
residents. Getting those intersections lined up. Uh, I mentioned the sweeping curves
help with that transition. I can go back and show you the vicinity we were talking about,
but I think we're all familiar with that stretch, kind of in the vicinity of Taft Speedway
where we make that transition to 25 miles an hour. The ... that sweeping curve though
does give folks a chance to slow down and kind of that visual cue to ... to, hey, you're
entering into a transition area and you need to be aware of... of you're coming into the
city, away from a rural environment. So...
Throgmorton/ Mark, on ... on the speed limit point.
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ Urn ... when I think about it as a driver, myself as a driver, I think ... I don't really
respond well to a shift in the speed that is signaled midway between intersections, or
between, you know, between a red light and some other red light. Uh, rather I need some
other visual cues. I need something that really indicates to me that ... I gotta change my
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speed. Otherwise I'll ignore the sign. Especially if the roadway permits me to keep
driving at 35 or 38 miles an hour. Because of its design. So, why not put it at Taft
Speedway, immediately after you leave Taft Speedway going south, why not have a 25
mile an hour sign right there?
Pearson/ We can certainly con ... yeah, that...if that's how Council wants it to be signed. I'll let
Rick address it more, if he wants, but...
Hayek/ I'm not sure I share that, um ... but ... but (both talking)
Throgmorton/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ Yeah, I mean, I ... open for discussion. I'm not saying I want to squelch the discussion.
I'm just not sure I share your perspective on it (several talking)
Throgmorton/ That's fair enough (both talking)
Payne/ On the visual cue, on ... I mean, I agree that visual cues are good, and curves in roads are
maybe good things, narrowing of lanes (both talking)
Pearson/ Just that, yeah, we've narrowed lanes, just... introducing that sweeping curve does make
you slow down to enter the curve and then there's, you know, it's got a reverse curve in
it. Um, the previous version also had compound curves, which we don't need to get into,
but it's a curve, a curve, a curve. This is more sweeping and gradual. Urn ... but it is ... a
longer more sweeping curve. So that does have the benefit (both talking)
Dobyns/ Are we going to get into this now or later?
Hayek/ I don't know, I mean, I don't know if we have time for something of that level. We've
got a lot of ground to cover (both talking)
Dobyns/ Yeah!
Pearson/ My main concern this evening is letting you know about that realignment and having
any questions regarding that, and ... and getting your guidance that you're either okay
with what we're suggesting through here or you would want to see something back to
where we had discussed previously.
Throgmorton/ (mumbled) ... great. (several talking)
Hayek/ Two thumbs up for what you've presented so far! (several talking)
Pearson/ Okay, great!
Dickens/ Accomplishes pretty much everything we've talked about.
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Pearson/ Good! Um ... real quick, the east sidewalk is that red line that we had talked about
previously. Uh, it ends at roughly the northern of the two driveways for Cliff
Apartments. I just wanted to call that out. Um, if you're okay with si ... sidewalk on the
east side, given what I had presented a moment ago, we can move on. Otherwise I did
want to point out that, um, if you didn't have it in there currently, urn ... it would cost
additional money to add it back in at some later date if you wanted to do that, and we
estimated approximately $150,000 if you wanted to go back in the future, uh, at some
later point and construct that stretch of sidewalk in the future.
Throgmorton/ Would this be a six -foot wide sidewalk?
Pearson/ Yes. It would be a continuation of what we had talked about from Cliff to the south.
Payne/ And it would be within the existing right -of -way.
Pearson/ Existing right -of -way.
Payne/ No purchase of anything new?
Pearson/ Not related to sidewalk, no. And everything else is ... and again, it's pulled further away
from existing... existing properties.
Payne/ Property.
Throgmorton/ Well, I didn't like the idea before. I ... I like it better given the relocation.
Payne/ Yep!
Throgmorton/ But it still puzzles me why we would want and need 16 -feet width of...of bike and
pedestrian trail, total, on ... on the two sides of Dubuque.
Pearson/ Can I use that as a segue?
Throgmorton/ Sure!
Pearson/ So one of the other things we wanted your guidance on this evening, and we can come
back and look at sidewalks again in a second if you want to go back to that previous
slide, but regarding that, one of the other things we wanted some guidance on was the
alignment of the ... of the 10 -foot trail on ... on the west side of Dubuque Street, and we
had been proposing for it to run in the purple parallel ... to the new travel lanes. But in
blue you can see where around Taft it pulls away and starts to follow more of the
meander that's out there currently. So maybe if I could get your guidance on how you
would like that to be with the trail, we can come back and answer some more questions
about the sidewalk.
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Dobyns/ Mark, what are the purposes of having the blue, uh, footprint? I mean, doesn't really
meander.
Pearson/ It doesn't meander a lot, but (both talking)
Dobyns/ But it's down off the road. Is it aesthetics?
Pearson/ There's some distance away from the road. We were asked to look at it.
Dobyns/ So it's aesthetics. Is that ... you're not so close to the hurley burley of the road.
Pearson/ Yeah, you're... you're more than 8 or 10 feet away from the ... from the southbound
lanes of Dubuque Street. Uh, I will point out that ... because it is going back into the park
and it starts to get outside of what we had looked at previously, um, it would not be
protected to the same level that it would be if we kept it running parallel with ... with the
southbound lanes. So for instance, if...if, as Rick mentioned, the, uh, elevated roadway,
had it been built today, would still be open. Portions of the trail would have to be closed
because it falls down below the 100- plus -1.
Dobyns/ But the segue is if we elect to have a sidewalk continuously on the east side, during a
flood event, that will always be open, allowing egress up to the Peninsula, up to the bike
trail and we can let the west side flood.
Pearson/ Correct.
Dobyns/ If we feel the aesthetics of having it off the road are worth that.
Pearson/ Uh huh. Correct. So that said, would you like to go back and ... look at...
Throgmorton/ Well I'd say also ... I think from a, um, a recreational bicyclist's point of view, a
meandering trail is way more interesting than one that's pretty straight and pretty level.
You like to kind of...
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ ...around a little bit, you know. So for me that's... that's an argument, part of an
argument, for doing meandering part.
Pearson/ But to get back... so, I mean, if you did have east... sidewalk along the east, or along the
northbound lanes all the way on up to Foster, that would give you some redundancy and
some protection that ... you'd be able to keep it.
Dobyns/ And... and I guess looking at it broadly, before I was opposed to having the sidewalk on
the east side. Now that we've allowed a lot more room, so it's not on the bluff. Plus in
the interim, you know, I ... being more aware that the Peninsula is a burgeoning area. You
know eventually ... uh, it's called B'Jaysville Lane now, but eventually it will become
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Foster, and um ... you know, that's graded, ready to go. Uh, Foster, um, is going to
continue to Prairie du Chien, allowing egress of the Peninsula to the new HyVee on
Dubuque, um, on Dodge — sorry! And ... um, I think that's going to become a major road.
So now I'm starting to think that we need a sidewalk continuously on the east side, all the
way up to the ... the road that will in the future become Foster. Um...
Mims/ My only concern ... and it's a big one, we haven't gotten there yet, is as we go further
south, near Park Road, because that is very narrow, and so I guess I'm not comfortable
giving my definitive opinion on this until we see that part of it too, because (both talking)
Payne/ But we already decided there's going to be a sidewalk down there.
Dobyns/ But it's narrower, is that what you're saying, it's (both talking) narrowing?
Pearson/ Just so you know, we haven't changed anything regarding the widths from what you
gave guidance on last time we were here.
Mims/ So we're doing 6- foot ... okay.
Dobyns/ All the way (both talking)
Hayek/ This ... this question concerns sidewalks from basically the Cliff up to ... up to (both
talking) Foster (several talking)
Mims/ ... still got the gap between Cliff and Mayflower, no sidewalk between (noises on mic,
unable to hear speaker) No, okay, so (several talking) all the way...
Dobyns/ ...Church to the Fos ... to Foster, 6 -foot all the way.
Payne/ We're deciding on that last section though.
Dobyns/ ... deciding on the last section.
Pearson/ Otherwise we would stop it at Cliff.
Payne/ Yep!
Dobyns/ Cause I would ... yeah. I would go, I mean, if we're ... if we would have it 6 -foot
continuously from Church all the way to Foster ... I would like the meandering, um, trail,
off the road for aesthetics, uh, knowing that it would flood periodically, knowing that we
actually had, um, a safety valve sidewalk on the east side cont ... that's continuous.
Throgmorton/ I agree with the `if (both talking)
Dobyns/ Yeah.
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Throgmorton/ ...put it. For me ... with regard to the east side, going from, uh, Cliff Apartments
up to Foster, the key thing is to not intrude, uh, inappropriately, excessively,
unacceptably on ... key features of properties along the way. For me that's crucial. Uh,
if... if we avoid that, I ... I can live with the 6 -foot thing and I know there are a lot of
people who would prefer to see that.
Payne/ It's a ... I mean, he's ... it's within the existing right -of -way.
Dickens/ Yeah, so it won't affect that.
Pearson/ And the other thing, I mean, we were able to pull the roadway away from those
properties and eliminate things like retaining walls, as well.
Dickens/ Better!
Dobyns/ Yeah, because going north on the west side, they eventually have to cross at Foster to
the east side anyway, if you recall, if they're going to continue northward on the county
trail. So they've got a...
Mims/ So unless they're headed out to the Peninsula, why are they even going to bother to go up
the west side?
Dobyns/ Um ... aesthetics?
Payne/ Cause there's a flood! (laughs)
Mims/ I mean, my point exactly! If...
Dobyns/ ...why they're going to bother to go up the west side?
Mims/ Right! I mean, my ... my point is (both talking)
Dobyns/ So why have it at all?
Mims/ No. I'm just concerned that we're ... we're making the east side so attractive... that you're
drawing a lot more traffic on the east side (both talking)
Dobyns/ Yep.
Mims/ ...because if you make ... if you make that go all the way through. My point is, unless...
and I don't see this as meandering enough to necessarily attract somebody to the west
side versus the east side. So why would somebody from Park Road to Foster bother to
bike on the left hand ... on the west side, unless they're headed out onto the Peninsula.
Payne/ The only thing that I could think of is because it's prettier. I mean, they have a prettier
view, and they don't have to deal with people in front of the Mayflower. They don't
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have to (both talking) I mean, there are some things to deter them from (both talking) that
being their normal route, I would think.
Mims / Right.
Payne/ I think there are some things (both talking)
Mims / And Rick has some ideas for me, too, so...
Fosse/ I just wanted to comment that on the ... on the trail, the trail on the west side is part of the
Iowa River Corridor Trail that's continuous...
Mims/ Right!
Fosse/ ...from North Liberty down to the Terry Trueblood Rec Center. So it's ... it's part of our
transportation system for bikes and ... and recreation.
Mims/ Yeah, but...
Dickens/ And most of the University buildings and everything are on the west side, and a lot of
people don't cross the street, so they're going to stay on the west side all the way out to
where they're going, until they have to change over, so I don't think we're ... (several
talking)
Payne/ And it's going to be skinnier, it's going to be harder to ... I mean, 6 -foot (both talking)
Mims / Right, if you've got a lot of pedestrian traffic it's going to be harder to ride a bike or
whatever.
Dobyns/ And ... and we're about to talk about some interesting innovations that would keep you,
compelling reasons to keep a, uh, biker on the west side. Urn ... cause I wouldn't want to
cross and then have to sit there and, uh, engineer my way past pedestrians on Mayflower.
I'd stay on the west side.
Mims/ Sure.
Dobyns/ Um, and so I think that's reasonable... that we're about to get to, compelling reasons to
stay on the west side, but I had the same issues last time, Susan. (several talking)
... kinda switched (several talking)
Dickens/ The one time I did ride my bike, many years ago (laughter)
Payne / When you were eight? (laughs)
Dickens/ It's been a long time, but no ... I think ... most people do stay to the west side when
they're coming from downtown. If you look at the number. There isn't the sidewalks
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now and adding them south of Church I don't think is going to change that ... that pattern
that much.
Hayek/ I'm supportive of connectivity to Foster. Especially under these new... considerations
(several talking)
Payne/ ...wasn't before but I am now.
Mims/ Yeah, with pulling it away from ... 1818, that helps (both talking)
Dickens/ ...within the right -of -way.
Throgmorton/ I'm just very hopeful we don't receive, uh, basically angry emails from any...
somebody who might be affected by this particular decision, saying, uh, I was never
consulted. I didn't know that this was actually going to happen. It's ... it's going to be
intrusive on my property, you know. I'm very hopeful we don't get any emails like that.
Payne/ I think the emails that we have didn't know that there was going to be a new alignment
also. I mean, they were ... they were, knowing the old alignment, not the new alignment.
So...
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I'm just ... posing a hypothetical...
Payne/ Right! Right.
Throgmorton/ I'm not saying anybody is upset (laughs) I'm not suggesting that at all (several
talking)
Dickens/ ...think they would be happier!
Throgmorton/ ...people were happier, right!
Markus/ Do you have anybody in mind? (laughter)
Dobyns/ Mark, will you lay awake at night? Okay!
Mims/ Well it sounds like there has been (several talking)
Hayek/ Just keep moving here, guys. We got a lot to talk about! (several talking)
Pearson/ Okay. So ... so first of all, are we okay with sidewalks on the east with the realignment?
What about the west trail? Purpled or blue?
Payne/ Cyan.
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Pearson/ Fine! Cyan or purple? (laughs) (several talking and laughing) Or violet? (laughs)
Am I hearing (several talking) Keep ... keep it kinda following its ... its current footprint?
Dickens/ The (both talking)
Hayek/ I'm not convinced you get much of a meandering effect and (both talking)
Pearson/ It ... it, what it does is it (both talking)
Hayek/ Personally I'd rather have a little more flood protection but...
Pearson/ ...it's rebuilding what's there today.
Hayek/ It's not a meandering hill for me to die on so ... (laughter)
Payne/ Yeah, I...
Dobyns/ Away from the road, that's really the only...
Hayek/ I get it! I get it. So that's fine. That's fine.
Mims/ The blue.
Pearson/ Blue... cyan! Perfect!
Mims / Whatever!
Payne/ (laughs)
Pearson/ Thank you! (several talking) Uh, quick thing, last time we were here you had asked
about some of the, uh, potential impacts south of Park Road on Dubuque Street, and so I
just wanted to call up this slide. I ... I apologize, I don't remember if the house on the left
of the graphic is 804 N. Dubuque or if it's 816 N. Dubuque, but it is a cross - section of
what you would see in that... in that stretch. Um, regarding the retaining wall, the
retaining wall through that length is anywhere from 2- to 5- feet ... in height. Uh, that
allows us to keep the sidewalk basically in its existing footprint... through that ... through
that block -long stretch.
Throgmorton/ How wide is the current sidewalk?
Hayek/ There isn't one!
Pearson/ There is ... in front of one of the fraternities (several talking)
Throgmorton/ There is and then there isn't. Yeah.
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Dickens/ It's a short section. (several talking) To nowhere! (several talking)
Hayek/ But down from Brown there's not.
Throgmorton/ Right.
Pearson/ Right, but there is ... in front of...816? One of the houses has a sidewalk in front of it
that's roughly 4 -feet.
Throgmorton/ If...if we had a narrower sidewalk, from ... I don't know, from approximately there
up to, uh, Church Street...
Pearson/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ I don't know, 5 -feet instead of 6, would that make, uh, any valuable significant
difference in terms of...the need ... the need for grading or, uh, the height of the retention
wall or anything like that?
Pearson/ It might change the re ... height of the retaining wall a little bit, only because you're
going further into the ... to the slope, but I can't tell you exactly what that height would
be. Um, the reason you need the retaining wall is to actually make the sidewalk fit. I
think as you go north towards ... or I mean I'm sorry, as you go south, up the hill towards
Church, that wall ... would decrease in size.
Hayek/ Now let's be clear, we're talking about going to Brown Street and then in the same
breath going to Church Street, on the (both talking)
Pearson/ Well I meant as you're going uphill, towards Church Street.
Hayek/ Okay.
Pearson/ In that stretch, you know, the grade comes down. The retaining wall would... start at
basically zero and get wider, and then as you get towards Park, come back down. But,
again, this is ... this is nothing new. Uh, this is what we've been suggesting from the very
beginning with the NEPA process, so ... I just included the graphic cause I know there had
been a couple questions at the last meeting. If there aren't any more questions regarding
that at the moment, I'd like to transition into the discussion of kind of the aesthetics, the
look and feel. Uh, we met about a month ago with our technical advisory committee, uh,
that included representatives from the University, from the City staff, as well as Project
Green, uh, and made a very similar presentation to them. Did get some of their feedback,
um, during the course of that discussion. Uh, Matt Spencer and Chris Hansel, Chris will
be talking about the aesthetics. Matt will be talking a little bit about some of the trail
options, uh, with the retaining wall, and we need to get your guidance on that, if possible,
this evening, as well. What you'd like to see through that stretch, but at this point, if
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there's no more discussion to be had for north of the retaining wall, I'd like to turn things
over to Chris so we can go through the aesthetics a little bit. Okay!
Hayek/ Okay.
Pearson/ Thanks!
Hansel/ Hello, everyone! I'm ... I'm Chris Hansel. I haven't had a chance to present in front of
you all before. Um, I'm a landscape architect with HNTB, and so we will talk about
some landscaping, but I'll also bring up Matt too. Uh, Matt's one of our civil engineers
and will have some interest in what we're doing with our trail concepts, um, just north of
Park Road, the bridge, and... and further south, as well. I did want to point out, uh, first
just sort of a summary recap. Uh, it's been a few years actually since we started this
process of talking about, uh, you know, what is the overall look and feel of this corridor?
What do we want to do? What sort ... sorts of programmatic elements do we want to
introduce, besides the ... the road alignment and some of those, uh, necessary physical
infrastructure improvements, and so things such as identifying where we can add bump -
outs on the bridge for overlooks and viewing areas. Um, what is the overall character
that we want to do in terms of what the landscape type is going to be. Um, we heard a lot
of, uh, comments related to let's maintain that natural character, um, throughout the
corridor, and emphasize some of the natural features that we do have existing in the
corridor, and ... and really use this as an opportunity to showcase those, uh, as ... as the
actual gateway to the community. But first before we get into a lot of, uh, those, we've
got a lot of images to show you. First thing we wanted to talk about are the trail
connections. I know you all are ... are familiar with what we were starting to look at
investigation -wise, uh, in terms of sidewalks up and down Dubuque, and the relationship
at... at Park Road, and so I will have Matt come up, actually, and... and talk through some
of these more technical, uh, cross - sections that we've developed for your consideration
today.
Spencer/ As Chris said, I'm Matt Spencer. If you have any questions during the course of the
discussion, please fire away! I'm happy to answer them in any way I can. Up here we're
showing three different alternatives for the trails (clears throat) excuse me, I think I
caught Rick's cough here. (clears throat) So, we have alternative A here on the left -hand
side, and that is what you've seen in the past. So, we have our orangish -color trail going
from the north down to the south over the bridge. Everything here is on top of the wall,
so nothing's down close to the river. You can see there in the red line in the plan view,
that is actually the location of that retaining wall. So where that will, uh, fall in
relationship to the river. Option B, we have a similar thing where you have the orange
trail going all the way along on the north side, or excuse me, on the west side, and then
you also have, um, it's kind of hard to see, but the lighter yellow color, which'll be a trail
that would drop down, just south of the culvert, or right around where Kimball is, and
that ... that trail then would follow, um, once it would ... once it drops down, it would
follow along the ... the bank of the river, go underneath the abutment of the bridge, and
then continue south. Option C would ... is kind of a combination between the two almost,
where we have the, uh, option A from Kimball Road down to Park, and then once we are
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south of Park, we're gonna then develop the opportunity to drop that trail down below.
So both options B and C, the idea there is that we would provide connectivity to the
Hancher pedestrian bridge, and uh, although there's no connection there today, there, uh,
and... and there's actually not a plan there in the future, it would provide an opportunity
to put that in place, uh, should the need... should the desire arise. I know we'd have to
cross over a few different property owners, and I know at least one of those property
owners is opposed to that connection. On the left -hand side you can see some typicals
that we have, uh, drawn up, or cross - sections (mumbled) and you can see we kind of
emboldened one of the ... the lines there, that kind of greenish - yellow line there, and that
is showing exactly what that typical section would look like for options A and C on the
top typical, and option B there on the bottom. So, as you can see, the wall looks ... you
...you have two walls in option B, because we have to have a way to drop that second
trail down to the bank, and you can see we're got our heights and our widths there, uh,
drawn up. So we are continuing that 8 -foot green space, as well as the 10 -foot trail. The
lower trail needs to be a little bit thinner, just to make sure that we're maintaining the
proper distance from the riverbank to the face of that wall. So if we continue south, you
can see we've jumped down just one cross - section there and once again, we used to have
a similar cross - section for both A and C, because those are going to be the same north of
Park Road. South of there, excuse me (clears throat) option B, uh, the ... the lower typical
section there, uh, you can see the wall needs to be a little bit higher, because we can't
slope the ro ... uh, the grade up to that wall. It has to be flat for a ... a person to be able to
ride their bike or walk along there, and once again, we're continuing a 6 -foot trail there at
the bottom, with a 10 -foot, excuse me, 6 -foot walk at the bottom of that 10 -foot trail, and
the 8 -foot, uh, green space at the top. Once again, we're scooting now south of the Park
Road bridge, and you can see that, uh, green line, once again, shows the cross - section
where we're drawing ... once again option A, uh, and then is ... is kind of what you've seen
in the past. Option B, you can see we've kind of separated that, uh, 10 -foot trail is now
scooting further away from, excuse me, the ... the lower trail is now scooting further away
from the upper trail, and we provide an opportunity there since we do have more
horizontal distance to widen out that trail. Option C, you can see it looks like we have a
20 -foot wide trail and really what that is right there is an opportunity where we are
starting to widen out that trail before we drop and create that ... that second trail falling
down below. Option C would be an at -grade crossing at the Park Road bridge. And then
finally here you can see the ... the last cross - section there, you can see option A we've
kind of tapered that wall down to virtually nothing, and uh, it'll continue there heading
south. Option B we've developed even more space between the ... the trail at the bottom
and the trail at the top, and then option C we are, um, kind of in the midst there of
dropping that ... that I0 -foot trail down below to provide that connectivity and then that
...that 10 -foot, um, and 8 -foot area would be just the exact same as option A.
Mims/ On option C, in the memo it says that ... that it was not part of the preferred alternative and
would require ... that we might incur delays in permitting and design. Would that ... for
the whole road? For the whole project it would cause delays?
Spencer/ And I'm going to turn it ... Mark's a little bit more, uh, versed on the ... the permitting.
I'm a simple civil engineer, so ... (laughter)
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Pearson/ What ... what it would do, um, actually with both B and C, where we're having things
potentially either below the wall, or where we're breaking away things south of Park
Road, where we hadn't looked at things before, it's going to get the Corps' attention,
possibly, so we would be able to continue to design the project. The problem would be
potentially with the ... the length of time it would take to get the permits. They might
want...
Mims/ Would that affect the ... the actual work on Dubuque Street or just that section right
there...
Pearson/ We'd be able to continue to design the entire project. What we would probably end up
doing is they would want more information, more coordination than what we might have
to do otherwise, because we're introducing a new wrinkle there.
Payne/ So it could delay that start of the project because it could delay when we receive the
permit.
Pearson/ Potentially. So...
Mims/ Then they're out, as far as I'm concerned.
Pearson/ (laughs) Normally for our permits, we would need roughly what we call 30% plans.
We're 30% done with design. If we introduce some things, especially along the base of
the wall, um, two walls... especially like with option B, that's going to get their attention.
They're going to want to have more information. So we may not be able to get a decision
from them until we're more like at 60% plans, so that they can see more detail. So what
that does is it pushes the timeframe for getting those permits further out, and any time
you deal with a federal agency it could be two weeks or it could be months.
Dickens/ When you said the homeowner, or property owners along the lower area there south of
Park Road weren't real receptive to having the trail go through, so why are we looking at
it if we don't think we can go through there?
Pearson/ It's ... it's a potential connection and it's part of the trail system. I mean, there is a
natural link from Park to the Hancher bridge, so...
Dickens/ But if the people don't want it to go through there, they're not going to (laughs)
(several talking)
Pearson/ There is one property owner that has expressed a ... um...
Dickens/ Strong?
Pearson/ ...said he didn't like it, so I mean (laughter) He didn't stomp or anything but he ... he
just said he did not like it, and I think he's talked with staff about it in the past, so...
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Dobyns/ Rick mentioned that there was a designated bikeway from, uh, Terry Trueblood all the
way up north. Where would that... is that going along the river? Does that include
options B and C or would that go along Dubuque Street? Rick, you just mentioned that.
Hayek/ It's on the west side. (several talking)
Dobyns/ Well I'm looking on the west side.
Fosse/ Yeah, it...it comes up the west side of the river, which is ... is off this drawing here (both
talking) and then it crosses the bridge and then takes off north (both talking)
Dobyns/ All right, so that's not relevant. Thank you.
Fosse/ And you'll have the option of going under the bridge, or crossing at grade, at the west
end. And ... and while I'm here, if you'd like, I can just run through staffs
recommendation on this. Um, the ... the options, uh, B and C are all predicated on the
possibility of that trail continuing along that east bank of the river some day. It's always
been talked about, but it's not in anybody's current plan, the City's or the University's.
It's a logical place for a ... a trail, and we need to talk about this now. It's not like these
...these things can't be added later, but they're very hard to add later. Um ... but based on
the unknowns and... and what staff has evaluated, we would recommend a combination
of A and C, just a little bit of C. So we'd ... we'd continue to have the trail at the top,
along here, have the at -grade crossing here, and continue up, and then at this location, we
would build just a little bit of C, the amount where we have to vary the retaining wall so
that in the future we have ... we have that divergence built, and we can go down and tie
into that trail, and in the meantime that serves as an observation area. And if that trail
never happens, then we have that observation area for good.
Mims/ Does that require additional permitting?
Fosse/ No, not up that high.
Mims/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ And the cost would be minimal.
Fosse/ Correct.
Mims/ That sounds good to me (several talking)
Payne/ ...sounds good to me!
Dobyns/ ...for future possibilities.
Payne/ Like it!
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Mims/ Yeah, I like that too.
Fosse/ Okay! Very good! Thank you.
Throgmorton/ But don't, uh, I guess I want to ask Mark a ... a question. I think these are creative
suggestions but to be honest they catch me by surprise. I didn't know that there was any
thought being given to doing something with regard to this south of Park Road trail stuff.
What I am conscious of is that there have been proposals that came from Jen Wagner and
I think it's been ... they've been reinforced by lots of other people, to do a pedestrian
promenade of some kind near the bridge, and north of the bridge, and yet I don't see
anything in the discussion about that at all, so... (several talking in background)
Fosse/ We did talk about that and ... and what our conclusion was, at least at a staff level, is that
it... at the north end of this corridor we have Terrell Mill Park. At the south end we have
the University campus, and both are great spaces, and to ... to interject additional great
space in between the two is very expensive, and since we have `em at both ends, we don't
see the need. It's not like the corridor is void of great space. Does that make sense?
The ... the logic behind...
Throgmorton/ Well, going north from Park there's... attractive space to look at, but where's the
great space for people actually to sit, to ... to converse, to ... to, uh ... um, do things with
one another other than, uh, skateboards and ... and that (both talking)
Payne/ It's a park! I mean, it seems like there's lots of space to enjoy the river in the park!
(laughs)
Dobyns/ Are you talking about bump -outs?
Throgmorton/Well I guess I'm thinking at...at a more urban scale, so pardon me. I'm just
imagining more of, uh...
Payne/ Yeah, and I, I mean, I ... her ... her drawing that she did was beautiful, but ... I ... I mean, I
understand what Rick's saying. It's ... we have space to do that now, and to introduce
something like that. They talked about they'd have to put piers down to make that space,
cause there just isn't space to do what she was talking about ... in her drawing. You
know, at our last meeting that we talked about it, we talked ... they talked about having to
put piers and all this stuff. It just seemed...
Fosse/ And we will be talking about bump -outs on the bridge in just a minute. So there are
places to congregate and ... and socialize there. So...
Hayek/ So let's do this before we move on. We're already at 6:15. We're not done with this
discussion. I think we need to throw some ballast over the ... side here.
Fosse/ Too fast?
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Hayek/ Uh, well, or no ... I think we need to decide what we're not going to talk about during our
work session, cause ... I see where this is headed. (several talking) I mean, I ... looks like
there's at least another 15 minutes of...
Throgmorton/ We'll have to come back...
Hayek/ We'll have to come back. So ... so why don't we ... I mean, we can keep going a little
longer, and then maybe take up the Info Packet and then plan on a post - formal, uh, work
session.
Fosse/ Okay. He's got about five minutes. Chris has. (several talking)
Mims/ See if we can get these guys done (mumbled)
Hayek/ Yeah, you ... you guys made the trip here so we want to (several talking)
Mims/ Get you guys done!
Hansel/ So, it sounds like we ... you support staff's recommendation. I think that's great, um, and
we can talk about some of these additional opportunities, as well. Um ... we can go
beyond that now. Urn ... so ... what we want to talk about with respect to aesthetics and
landscape design intent, we want to tell you, uh, you know, what we've heard so far from
our technical advisory committee from City staff, uh, working with folks from Parks and
Rec and City Forester and Project Green and others, re ... regarding landscape and overall
aesthetics, look and feel, um ... if you hear anything that I'm saying or ... that, uh, requires
some additional support from your end, uh, any other comments, please let us know but
um ... generally if you think of the corridor, um, actually the project is four separate
corridors. The Foster segment looking... essentially we focused on that, uh, north of the
Cliff Apartments to Foster. Um, what we term as the Mayflower segment, that area right
in front of Mayflower and Terrell Mill Park, and then the river segment, heading south,
uh, on ... on that part of the project, and then we have what I would ... would term as the
campus or even the ... the City Park segment, um, on Park Road. Those are sort of four
different quadrants that we want to talk about, um, in terms of what the overall design
look and feel would ... could be, and really what we've heard to date in terms of design
intent is, on the Foster segment, this is an opportunity, as Mark mentioned, this is a
transition, uh, into the community. So what ... what can we do from a landscape
standpoint to, um, provide, uh, tree massings, um, provide that transition of ... of speed
and that entrance into the community, um, extending some of the features that you have,
such as the wooded hillside, uh, on the east end of Dubuque Street, and where can we
preserve some of those exis ... existing trees that are significant in value and that we want
to maintain through that corridor, again, to emphasize this overall natural parkway feel
that we have, uh, and that we've heard to date as ... an overall design intent idea. Um, as
we move a little bit further south, thinking about that room as I would call it, um, at
Mayflower. What is the relationship between Mayflower, the Cliff apartments, and
Terrell Mill Park, uh, with the boathouse? Uh, you ... you have a sense of arrival when
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you pass through that entry today. We know that there's a pedestrian crossings that occur
through there. Um, bus turns, and that sort of thing, and so there's a lot of activity that
needs to be recognized in terms of, uh, a visitor traversing through that corridor, and so
how do we do that from a landscape standpoint, and where we settle to date is let's use
the opportunity of .. of clustering landscape where we can deflect views that may be
undesirable, whether it's a surface parking lot, um, back of house, uh, utility areas, that
sort of thing, and really emphasize where folks are crossing the intersection. Use those
passive way - finding and attention - getting measures. How can we use landscape to help
reinforce that, um, how can we, uh, further emphasize that relationship of Mayflower to
Ter... Terrell Mill Park. We've talked about the meandering idea. I think landscape can
help emphasize that ... that, uh, that journey, I guess, through the park. Um, and then one
of the things that we've ... we've heard from City staff is that we really need to think
about maintenance up and down the corridor. Um, and so really going forward we'll be
looking at plant pallets that focus on low- maintenance, um, you know, things that have a
lot of color, texture, that can really create an amenity to the corridor, but aren't going to
be a burden to ... to your budgets and ... and the Parks and Recreation folks who need to
maintain this on a daily basis. Um, you'll see as we go into the river segment there's
some arrows that sort of focus out on where the prominent views, I mean, there's some
spectacular views through there, and there will be continuing moving forward of Hancher
and ... and other amenities along the corridor, and so we really want to extenuate that
visibility along the corridor, um, but on the east side of the corridor we know there...
there's also a lot of opportunities to sort of reestablish that hillside, um, really emphasize
that with some of the, uh, tree plantings, to restore that back down to ... with the sidewalk
and ... and the roadway. We also know that there's actually some pretty nice amenities of
exposing potentially the cliff face and really getting a, you know, profiling some of those
natural amenities, um, through that corridor that, um, you know, we've talked at some
point that there may be opportunities for these pocket park type little areas where maybe
you have some additional seating areas that are away from the roadway that allow you
opportunities to ... to enjoy the ... the surrounding, uh, views and that sort of thing. And
then, uh, heading obviously across the bridge, um, we'll focus on that here in a second,
but ... onto Park Road, really what we want to do is get out of the way of what's already
there. City Park has a... a pretty well established landscape. Uh, the campus has their
own landscape and they will, uh, supplement that with, uh, the ... the upcoming Hancher,
um, landscape plan and that sort of thing, and so what we want to do is ... is tread lightly
on that and really emphasize what's already there and ... and help to supplement that with
...with our design intent. And here's just a series of images. Uh, you're very familiar
with the corridor, so I'll flip through these very quickly, but ... a lot of existing light
standards, what do we do going forward? What we've heard is let's stay with something
very simple. Let's stay with something that can use ... utilize LED technology, something
that, uh, will essentially go away in terms of an overall visual impact to the corridor.
Um, and ... and this is just a particular fixture that we've looked at that provides a variety
of...of heights for pedestrian poles, for street lighting, and the like, um, has the
opportunity to put banners up, for instance, if that's a ... a direction we want to head, but
let's keep the lighting understated in the corridor. Um, we've got a lot of photos of
existing landscape through the corridor. Obviously the tree masses are very prominent.
Uh, there's also a lot of visual, uh, what, you know, some would term visual clutter —
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light poles, utility lines, and that sort of thing that we can clean up through this project.
Um, the median is a very prominent opportunity in the corridor. Right now, um,
obviously you're familiar with ... with what that looks like and what ... what can we do
moving forward. The design intent that we've established moving forward is that this
median will serve as a storm water, um, amenity to where it can handle, uh, storm water
drainage of the roadway. Um ... there are some areas ... north of the corridor now where
there are some more intensive planting, uh, and storm water treatment management areas.
Uh, going back to the low- maintenance aspect of this, what we've heard from ... from
park staff is it's going to be very difficult to maintain this throughout the corridor. So
let's pick and chose if we want to really profile a sustainable storm water management
amenity, let's do that, but let's be strategic about it and let's try to make it as low
maintenance as possible, um, and so, uh, that is sort of the intent and the opportunities
that we'll look for, um, moving forward. We've identified, you know, uh, how can we
use additional plantings in pocket areas along the corridor, utilizing the median to again
dress up the corridor and ... and give it a ... an enhanced beauty, um, but not be over -
intensive and over - maintenance heavy, um, so these ... these are just some images that
we've used in the past to kind of describe, um, you know, what do you like, where should
we go with, uh, the look and feel of the corridor. Bridge aesthetics, they're, um, is...
over -looks there today and moving forward what we'd like to do is ... is identify those
opportunities for overlooks. You see in the diagram in the lower right -hand corner, um,
out over the span of the bridge there will be piers in the water. That's a significant
opportunity for us to ... to provide overlooks on either side of the bridge. Um, similar to
what you see in some of these other images, um, and ... and I think those are the
opportunities that we really want to focus on. Um, we also had the opportunity at the
intersection of Park and Dubuque on the north and south sides, um, we alluded to that
option C on the trail, uh, that's an additional overlook. I think those are the things where
we think that we have the best opportunity to provide, um, views out into the corridor and
really emphasize, um, the ... the views there.
Throgmorton/ Could ... could I (mumbled) elaborate on that very briefly. Um ... I think this is
interesting and exciting, I'm glad to see it. When I think about going north on foot or on
a bicycle, on one of the two trails, I think it would ... we have a real opportunity to create
some meaningful places where people will want to stop, either on foot or on their bikes,
and enjoy being in the particular place, you know, providing some benches or something,
but you know, creating a place rather than just having a bench sitting there on the side of
the bike trail. You know, and I think you know exactly what I mean.
Hansel/ Right, yes. Yes, uh ... yes, and I think we do have some of those opportunities. There
are some areas of the corridor that are more conducive to providing that opportunity than
others, but ... yes, and I think we'll continue this dialogue as we move forward with the
design. Good comment. Uh, in terms of overall bridge lighting, this is not the bridge that
you will be getting (laughter and several talking) uh, but ... but in terms of just trying to
describe the overall look and feel, the largest image here is really what we've heard is
that let's keep something that's understated, um, that illuminates architectural features of
the bridge, um, but is not, uh, it does not show the light source, something that's subtle,
that fits within the corridor, that doesn't compete too much with Hancher, um, and just
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a ... as an aside, we will be meeting with the Hancher design team tomorrow to discuss
opportunities to coordinate where they're going with their design and how we can maybe
borrow some of that vocabulary, uh, for how we treat not only the Park Road bridge, but
also any other features of the corridor. Um, just wanted to give you that heads -up, as
well. Railings is another opportunity where that could ... maybe there's something we can
borrow from Hancher, but then there's also the opportunity of, you know, there is a
significant opportunity along this corridor to set a vocabulary for how you handle, uh,
railings up and down the corridor, um, consistent with the Iowa River Trail and, you
know, this is an opportunity to do something more than a chain link fence, for example,
and ... and we'll be looking at those opportunities. Uh, retaining wall. Uh, we know that
we've got a significant wall that's going to be going in on the project. Um, there's a wall
that's existing north of Foster today on the left side, and then obviously at the cluf...the
cliff face, um, or bluff face, um, that is existing, and that's really the direction that we've
heard is let's try to mimic that, or match that as much as we can, and uh, very briefly,
these are just some options that we've already started to look at, different techniques of
how you can build a wall, um, one would be, uh, essentially almost like a stone veneer
over a wall system, similar to this being what's called an MSE wall, mechanically
stabilized earth, um, and then you would add a veneer over it. So this image here is
actually a wall that essentially is almost like a slurry coat that goes over the top of it. If
you think of stucco almost (mumbled) terms. And you can come back in and dress that
up however you want to make it more naturalistic. There are other, um, more, uh,
traditional methods that would be, uh, using panels. You're probably familiar with
seeing those on the side of a highway or a ... some other type of project where you can use
a ... a custom, or standard, panel that provides different patterns that mimic natural stone.
Um, you do have the opportunity to see joints wherever those panels fit together, but we
can diminish that by using different panel sizes and ... and things like that. Um, it's a little
bit more of an economical way of looking at it, um, there's also the opportunity if you
wanted to feature, uh, some art work or some other types of features along that wall, um,
that can certainly be a consideration, as well. We'll be ... we'll be going through the
design on this as we progress in moving forward, but now that we've gotten some
direction on the alignment, um, we can certainly ... go straight forward on that end. And
then finally, um, pedestrian amenities, uh, we show some images here. What we've
heard from Parks and Rec is that the standard that's quickly becoming the standard, uh,
throughout the city is something that we're going to strive to go forward with. There are
lots of other opportunities and we'll be working hand -in -hand with them to make sure
that we find something that balances the aesthetics of the corridor, um, with the
maintenance and durability that you all strive to ... to achieve. And then the last thing I
have is signage. Um, there's a lot of signage in the corridor. Some of it is ... is great in
terms of directional signage, and that sort of thing, but ... um, you know, where can we
find some consistencies there to create a consis ... consistent experience for folks moving
up and down the corridor. There are examples of new park standard for signage, and
that's something that we can certainly look at as a ... as an inspiration to ... to help beautify
the overall signage, um, throughout the corridor. And we'll be working with the campus,
obviously, and ... and their signage, as well, to make sure that this is all unified. So... I
know I went a little over. I apologize. Um, but this is where we're at and if you have any
additional comments... just let us know.
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Throgmorton/ With regard to the retaining wall and any rip -rap associated with it, uh, I've heard
various people, uh, express concern about the views that one would have from the west
side of the river, looking toward, uh, toward the Dubuque Street and the retaining walls,
etc. Uh, so ... I can't fully judge from what you've presented how ... the roadway would
look from the west, given the direction that you're moving. So I ... I just want to convey,
I think, uh, my concern that it ... we be very careful and landscape that in a way that is
appealing, not just to somebody driving a car, but to somebody who's on the other side of
the river in City Park, etc., viewing, uh, the property to the east.
Hansel/ That's an ongoing dialogue and we'll ... we'll continue that, obviously, moving forward.
Um, one of the things you all have seen some of the renderings we've done in the past to
kind of visualize what the project's going to be, I would envision that we would do
something similar to begin to illustrate what the ... the condition is based off of some of
these cross - sections that you've seen today and ... and what are the opportunities to soften
that wall, if, you know, if they're possible throughout the corridor. I think that's going to
be an ongoing dialogue that we'll have but ... but yeah, you're not the first person that
we've heard that from (both talking)
Hayek/ Yeah, and I would concur with that, and you ... you do address that to some extent in the
report we received but um, that ... that will be significant, and that's one reason why we
opted for the elevation that we chose because of that visual impact from the west and
from the ... from the City Park side. So ... that will be important. Okay! Uh...
Hansel/ Appreciate it! (several talking)
Hayek/ Are you... Rick and Mark and everybody, are you...
Fosse/ Yes, we got the decisions that we needed tonight...
Hayek/ Okay!
Fosse/ ...and we're going to move forward and continue on design and ... and uh, we've laid out
a lot of ideas for you all to be thinking about as we move forward, and ... and we'll be
back with other decisions.
Hayek/ When do you anticipate coming back to us?
Fosse/ Um ... we haven't talked about the next date yet. I would guess fall... probably would be
the soonest at that. Right now we really want to focus on roadway design. We've tied
down the geometric features now with ... with what we talked about today so that we can
get going in earnest on that, and that's... that's a critical path item in the design right now.
Hayek/ Okay. Okay!
Fosse/ Around October (both talking) Thanks!
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Mims/ Okay!
Hayek/ All right. Thank you for coming!
Fosse/ Thank you!
Hayek/ Uh, all right, we've got 10 minutes and we have to break up by 20 of to allow staff to
reconfigure the room. Um, you know, maybe we should just take up the Info Packets. I
don't know that we can get into the, uh ... restoration project, Rick. Take that up after?
Markus/ Do that during the regular (several talking)
Information Packets:
Hayek/ Or during the ... yeah, that's fine too. Okay, well, then let's talk about the joint
meeting... well, let's see where we get on the Info Packets. We've got four of them!
First one is June 19tH
Mims/ Nothing for me.
Payne/ Me either!
Throgmorton/ I had a question, but I don't really want to ask it right now. If you don't mind.
Hayek/ We won't push you! (laughter) June ... June 26th (laughing)
Botchway/ I have a question. Where are we at with the, uh, Tate Arms, uh, Building? Has
anything changed since the (several talking)
Hayek/ IP4.
Botchway/ Yeah.
Hayek/ John Yapp is coming to the podium, Kingsley.
Yapp/ Uh, John Yapp, Development Services. I do not know the specific status, but I do know
the property owner, uh, has expressed interest in the, uh, historic landmark designation,
uh, for that property.
Botchway/ Okay.
Hayek/ Thanks, John. Any other things on, uh, the June 26th packet?
Mims/ I just want to thank the, uh, City Manager for IP5 and IP6. Um, the `Affordable Housing
That's Very Costly' was very ... a very informative article, um, and then the limitations of
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the inclusionary zoning. I think those are topics that we keep coming back and circling
around about, and I think to hear how other, uh, locations are dealing with some of these
issues that we face, uh, is very helpful.
Hayek/ July 3rd packet.
Throgmorton/ With regard to IP3, the impediments to fair housing choice. Uh, I want to draw
attention to the report, which contains lots of important information and conclusions,
recommendations. Uh, and ... I'm conscious that the staff did not accept all of the
recommendations that came from the pub ... Public Policy Center's report, but it accepted
most of them, uh, all but one, I think, but I ... but there's one particular feature of it that I
want to draw attention to, uh, surely the findings about the increasing number and spatial
concentration of African Americans in our city has meaningful implications for the recent
St. Ambrose, uh, traffic stop report, cause we heard then that there have been no
significant changes in the population, and therefore that had consequences for how the
analysis proceeded. So I ... I would just strongly encourage the staff to make sure that, uh,
that the Policy Center's, uh, report is shared with, uh, I've forgotten his name now, but
the Professor who ... who prepared the St. Ambrose study.
Payne/ The only thing is is his study was based on drivers, not necessarily population. So...
Throgmorton/ He used a population in his report, though I don't remember exactly how.
Mims/ Yeah... in terms of comparing percentages that you would expect to have stopped.
Payne/ I thought he did it based on drivers and that's why they did all those dri ... those counts.
They were making ... but they made an assumption that number of drivers was ... equal to
the census number of the (several talking) percent population. (several talking) Yep, for
his baseline.
Throgmorton/ Well... well... I'm sure he could exercise good judgment about how to use the
report. The report, I think, is meaningful and potentially of value to them in conducting
future (both talking)
Markus/ We'll make sure ... we'll make sure he sees it.
Payne/ I had a question on ... um ... the next. It must be IP4. Um, it's actually on page, um, 146.
Hayek/ Blue Zones?
Payne/ Yes! Um, on Item 2c on ... it's on page 146, it says, `Implement a road diet on 6th and 7th
Avenues.' And then in the description it says that these are two major east and west
thoroughfares. (laughter) And I don't think that 6th and 7th Avenue go east and west, and
...7th Avenue might be a major thoroughfare but is 6th? It's like short! I ... I've...
Mims/ No! (laughter)
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Payne/ And it's not going east and west! (laughing) So I was confused at what they were trying
to ... I was talking about road diets (several talking)
Fruin/ We were confused as well and (both talking) and we're following up with the Blue Zones'
folks and ... yeah!
Payne/ Okay! Um ... and then also the next item is #3 is talking about the ... I don't even know
how to say it — woonerf or a living street. Were they talking about doing this on
Washington and Dubuque? It ... that just didn't make too much sense to me!
Throgmorton/ Now ... what did they mean? Remind me.
Payne/ It's taking ... like removing curbs, um, painting basketball courts on the street. To me it
doesn't make sense to do that on Washington and Dubuque.
Mims/ No, I was thinking we'd have a few people killed by cars.
Payne/ (laughing) Yeah, even at 25 miles an hour! (laughs) So I ... I just, I wasn't following
along with what ... they were trying to do there. Okay.
Mims/ Conceptually, good but (mumbled) issues with street names maybe and stuff.
Payne/ Yeah...
Throgmorton/ I don't know about the viability of doing anything on Washington and Jefferson in
the way you just described, but there's actually a ... a growing body of research and
experience with regard to mixing diverse modes on the street, if the traffic speed is (both
talking)
Payne/ Low enough.
Throgmorton/ ...and you get it low enough through design.
Payne/ Yep. So I ... I get that part of it. I just didn't get this part of it. Um ... and then this one
might be for Marian, and maybe somebody already caught it because this ... this one was
a ... oh, what is it. It's on IP6, which is the draft of the Ad Hoc Senior Services
Committee, and I should have just emailed this to you, Marian, and I didn't. I found a
typo (laughs)
Karr/ Okay.
Payne/ It's on page ... 2 of the Committee meeting minutes and it's in the very last paragraph. It
uses the word capitol, but it means ... it says c- a- p- i- t -o -1, and I think it means a -1. It
doesn't mean a building. It means a ... capital. Sorry! I should have just emailed it to
you but I forgot.
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Hayek/ Payne is in the house! (laughter)
Dickens/ House of Payne! (laughter)
Hayek/ Okay. Anything else?
Botchway/ I had a couple questions, as well.
Hayek/ Anything else, Kingsley?
Botchway/ Yeah, um, so IP4 and IP5. For IP4, where are we at? I mean, we got this from the
Blue Zones. Is staff working on, you know, implementing this? Bringing this back to
Council? I mean, if somebody already said it I just didn't hear it.
Fruin/ Um, this is, uh, Geoff Fruin, Kingsley. Uh, we're working on, uh, all the commitments
that we made. We brought to Council at your previous meeting. Um, we're moving
forward with all of those. Most of those you won't see, uh, come forward to you until
later this fall, uh, or ... or perhaps even next spring. Some of those don't even require
your, um, approval. So we'll move forward on that. In terms of the walkability study
itself, uh, Dan Buetner is going to come back and revisit some of these issues, and also,
uh, do a little bit more in -depth analysis. Certainly we think that there's some good items
that they brought up in that report. There's some other items, uh, as ... as Michelle noted
that we have other questions about, not sure really what they're getting at or, uh, perhaps
have some questions about the locations they're suggesting. So, yes we are moving
forward. It's roughly a year, year and a half process and uh, you'll just see it trickle in,
uh, probably a little bit here and there through all your meetings for the next year, year
and a half.
Botchway/ Okay. Um, so on IP4 as well, but page 148. I just had a phenomenal experience, um,
in Omaha using their bicycle program and so I mean I know that staff's looking into it
and obviously is going to have continual discussions regarding it, but I ... I just want to
throw, you know, my, uh, two -cents on it being a great, uh, thing that Iowa City can
possibly look towards in the future because , you know, I had a phenomenal time. I'm
not an avid biker, but I just had a great time, you know, riding a bike, um, downtown and
it just being available for me to ... to use. Again, not downtown Iowa City, but it was
downtown Omaha, and it was just ... an amazing experience. And then IP5 ... uh ... the
only comment I have is, it just seems like with Mediacom, uh ... uh, is there a reason why
...it just seems like there's been a lot of charge recently, um, there's been a continual
increase in charges and I just didn't know if we had a reason why. I mean, obviously that
could just be in the regular conduct of business, but you know with a lot of the
complaints that we've been, or excuse me, that I've been hearing from public about, you
know, Mediacom and, you know, how it's ... uh, it's been somewhat of a ... problematic,
uh, business. I just didn't know if there was ... what's going on and if we know any
information regarding that.
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Mims/ Well we don't have any control, do we?
Dilkes/ Not of that ... we have a ... my recollection is we have a ... very minimal control over the
basic rate, that it falls within a maximum permitted rate or something to that effect, but
very little.
Botchway/ Okay. Never mind. I just wanted to highlight it then.
Hayek/ Okay (both talking)
Botchway/ ...that was the extent of my questions.
Hayek/ Okay. Let's finish up with the July 10th, uh, Info Packet.
Throgmorton/ Uh, yes, um ... with regard to IP8, update on downtown streetscape planning. Uh,
I want to, uh, support what Geoff s July 8 memo says about reducing lane widths,
expanding sidewalks and adding trees on Dubuque and Washington Streets. That sounds
like a really smart thing to do! When do you want to do KXIC interviews?
Hayek/ Hold on a second, I want to (both talking) I was going to raise IP8 as well, I mean, those
... the ... the changes that are alluded to in that or the suggestions that we will receive are
...are fairly significant and I ... we just need to have a lot of input, uh, from the downtown
stakeholders with respect to those. I can see some, you know, very differing opinions on
...on what's around the corner (several talking) So, anything else on, uh, before KXIC,
anything else? You know what, let's not do KXIC. We can take it up afterwards (several
talking) Um, so let's, uh ... uh ... well, we'll suspend the work session (laughs) Uh, we'll
take a break; we'll start the formal at 7:00; and then we'll adjourn back to the work
session at the end of the formal. Thank you for being here!
(BREAK TO FORMAL MEETING)
Agenda Items for Joint Meeting:
Hayek/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ It's time for dinner!
Hayek/ Yeah! (laughs) Uh, all right, we ... uh, I'm just going to keep going here.
Mims/ Okay.
Hayek/ (mumbled) Okay. Uh ... the next bullet point I think is agenda items for the joint meeting
on July 28th. That's IP5 in the July 10th Info Packet. Um ... I've talked to staff and I've
talked to Susan about having ... uh, Susan present at the joint meeting on the local option
sales tax, which seems to be ... the most salient issue before, uh, local governments for
purposes of a joint meeting, and if everybody's comfortable with that ... I would ... I would
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invite her to do that. Does anyone want to add anything else to our joint meeting agenda?
We need to get that to ... who's the host community?
Karr/ Tiffin.
Hayek/ Tiffin.
Dobyns/ Susan, is that going to be a discussion of LOST in addition to the... recommendation
from the Supervisors? In addition or...
Mims/ Well I think probably what I'll do is I'll work with staff. I presented to the Chamber of
Commerce Local Government Affairs Committee last Thursday, and I used, um, a couple
of PowerPoints that Dennis and his staff had done. One was on property tax reform at the
State level, and then the other one was the one that he presented to us that was the
recommendation ... recommendations that came out of the committee, the staff and
committee with me on it. Um, so probably what we'll do is work on tightening up that a
little bit so it's a little bit shorter presentation, um, I think just to make that as quick as
possible to give people some background and where the City's at, and then I would
assume then it would probably evolve into some discussion of where people are at from,
uh, what they're thinking, what they're ... how they're thinking about using the money,
and um, people's thoughts about the Supervisor's request of...of, uh, dedicating 10% for
the Courthouse work.
Dobyns/ When is that meeting? I ... I'm thinking (both talking)
Mims/ The 28th
Dobyns/ ...because I'm aware that in mid - August and ... Kingsley, wherever you are, you may
know this really well, but in terms of getting the ballot language finalized, I guess,
Kingsley, do you know or anyone else (mumbled) me to be in ... in mid, uh, August (both
talking)
Karr/ August 27th is the deadline.
Dobyns/ So we have August 27th to get...
Karr/ Everyone has August (both talking)
Dobyns/ And this multi jurisdictional meeting is when this month?
Karr/ 28th of July (both talking)
Dickens/28 1h of July.
Dobyns/ So we have...
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Markus/ So you have that opportunity to sit down with all of the other jurisdictions, have that
conversation. If there's going to be some changes, then you could contemplate those,
bring `em back on the 19th, if you want to change your resolution (both talking) 19th of
August, which is your (both talking) Council meeting.
Dobyns/ Okay, okay!
Markus/ And so that you could bring it back at that meeting, and then if you wanted to change up
your formula or some other provisions, you could (both talking) consider it at that
point...
Dobyns/ Okay.
Markus/ ...rather than making any changes at this point.
Mims / And I (both talking)
Markus/ Because right now they have our ballot language or our ... our resolution. So we're...
we're already good in that regard.
Mims/ Given that this is ... be the last time we have the opportunity to talk about it before we go
into that joint meeting, I would ... throw out for consideration that we, um, that we go
along with the Supervisor's request, um, to put 10% towards the County courthouse, take
that out of the streets. So we would go 50% property tax relief, 30% streets, 10% County
courthouse, 10% affordal ... affordable housing, under the condition that ... the other
contiguous cities or at least the ... and we need to think about how we would want to word
it, um, that the other contiguous cities and the... and the County pass it. I mean, it's not
really going to affect (both talking)
Hayek/ You mean include, uh, an identical (both talking)
Mims/ Yeah, I'm sorry, include (both talking) include ... (both talking) yes.
Markus/ The 10 %...
Mims/ Yeah, that they include the 10% (both talking)
Markus/ ... dedication for the Justice Center and...
Mims/ Right!
Dobyns/ I assume the County would since they asked (laughing) so...
Mims/ You would hope so!
Payne/ Why would you take it off of the streets and not off of the, urn ... property taxes?
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Hayek/Well, you could.
Mims/ I'm open.
Dickens/ I think that's ... was that the County's...
Mims/ They (both talking)
Hayek/ No, they just wanted 10 %. I don't think they...
Dickens/ Okay, they don't care where (both talking)
Dobyns/ Each jurisdiction can decide, I mean, I assume, Susan that ... was it 10 %, was that what
the County wanted?
Hayek/ That was the request (both talking)
Mims/ County wanted 10.
Dobyns/ Okay, so their request was that we'll do ... what if the other jurisdictions came by and
they said 5 or 8, I mean, can you comment on...
Mims/ Well, I guess ... I guess from my perspective in a way it doesn't really matter what
University Heights or Tiffin do. One because their population base is so small and their
property tax valuation is so small. So in terms of what they're going to get ... what they
generate and what they're going to get. I'm seeing Tom frown at me.
Markus/ Well, no, I was just going to say that any of the ... the communities in the metro area,
um, are bound by the majority vote in that area, and it seems like maybe what you would
do is ... is suggest that all the communities in the metro group would ... would concur in
that fashion, that the number of...there's a number of communities, smaller communities
that are outside the metro area that you might not make it conditioned upon. What is it,
Shueyville and Swisher and Lone Tree and ... and Hills (several talking) but the
unincorporated area, and then any of the jurisdictions in the metro area would seem
like...
Mims/ I agree we want them. I ... I entirely agree we want them. My question is if everybody
except University Heights agrees to do it, do we want to lose the whole thing.
Throgmorton/ No!
Mims/ Simply because University Heights refuses to do it.
Throgmorton/ No.
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Dobyns/ No, I agree.
Markus/ I ... what I would suggest you consider is that you maybe go in with the idea of
conditioning that. You still reserve judgment at the end of the day on ... on what you
decide anyway.
Mims/ Right.
Dilkes/ Yeah, I think ... I ... I don't see us submitting conditional ballot language. I mean, I see us
(several talking) I see us getting, knowing by the 19th whether... which cities are going to
do that and then...
Markus/ (both talking) And then deciding.
Dilkes/ ...ballot language accordingly (several talking)
Hayek/ What I would suggest though is that, I mean, we've been asked by the County to respond
to a request, and we could do that through a letter from ... City Hall, you know, just here's
the sense of the Council. It's not formal action, but here's our work session consensus as
to where we are on ... on this issue, and ... and um, I agree we would not want to pass
conditional language. We ... we wouldn't pass any language until we knew what ... what
we're going to do, if anything, other than (both talking)
Dobyns/ And when do all these City Councils meet? I'm trying to figure out ... you know, I
assume they'll all meet by the time we have met, somewhere between this joint session
and our August 19th meeting, but I'm not sure if they all meet by that time.
Markus/ (both talking) ...we might not make a decision by that time.
Hayek/ I ... I think ... I think... (both talking)
Dobyns/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ I think Coralville will take this up in work session later this month, but I don't think they
will vote until August 12th
Dobyns/ But that's in time.
Hayek/ That ... that's in time. It's pretty close, but it's in time. Um, I can't speak to the others,
uh...
Dickens/ They've all been talking about it though.
Hayek/ Yeah, and I ... I had lunch with John Lundell and Gerry Kuhl just the other day, so their...
their cities are talking about this. But I think it'd be nice for us to signal something to the
County, in terms of a response.
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Mims/ I think that's a good idea.
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Hayek/ And it gets it out there before ... well in advance of the 28th
Throgmorton/ I ... I agree and I would support the idea. It won't surprise you to know I'd like to
see the 10% come out of property tax relief instead out of the road stuff, out of the right -
of -way stuff, but I support the idea of 10% going to the County for the courthouse.
Mims/ I don't feel real strongly which place it comes out of. I mean, I defer I guess a little bit to
maybe a staff in terms of ... if they have a strong opinion one way or the other. Um, but...
Dobyns/ I prefer taking it out of property tax relief, but I'm willing ... we can wait anyway.
Hayek/ Do you think there's, um ... those two different formula have ... a different appeal
electorally? (both talking) Is someone more likely to support 40/40/10/10 or...
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Hayek/ Or 50/30/10/10.
Dobyns/ That's... that's... I'm using my political guy, yeah. (laughter)
Hayek/ And you're saying ... 40 /40/10/10 (several talking)
Dickens/ I don't have one, so I...
Hayek/ I don't know. I'm just...
Payne/ I ... I think for those people that think that a tax, that this is a regressive tax anyway,
would be more pleased with taking it out of the property tax.
Throgmorton/ I'm ... I'm sure they would! I don't know ... I don't know what they think about the
courthouse part of it. Have to think about that a little bit, but ... but definitely the property
tax stuff.
Mims/ That's fine then. I don't feel strongly. Well at least ... I think, Matt, if you ... if you work
with staff to get something drafted that we're, you know, that we're amenable to doing it,
assuming that ... the County does it and at least the ... and the other, um, contiguous cities
do it, that that's where we're leaning. I mean, I...
Hayek/ Okay, now that doesn't address your concern that University Heights is the spoiler.
Mims/ But it doesn't lock us into it at this point. It says that's the direction we're leaning, if...
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Dobyns/ Kingsley, do you have a...
Dickens/ He went to bed a while ago (laughter)
Dobyns/ Kingsley?
Botchway/ (laughter) No, no, I ... I' totally agree with what Susan was saying and, you know,
obviously with Matt adding in, you know, sending some type of communication to the
County, you know, apprising them of...our kind of general decision about these matters.
I don't know ... I'm not sure whether or not we have to specifically say anything about,
um, whether it comes out of property tax or streets. We could just say that, you know
(both talking)
Mims/ Yeah, we don't right now.
Botchway/ ...willing to do the 10% going into the meeting, and that just be it. Um, I'll be very
interested to see what the other jurisdictions do, but I agree, it should be contingent, um, I
just, uh ... I'm just a little wary, um, on how the other, uh, jurisdictions are going to take,
you know, um ... what the County proposed, but I'll be interested in discussing it.
Mims/ Well if we need to we can always wait and set a special meeting on the 26th of August.
After everybody else has acted (laughing)
Hayek/ (mumbled) So why don't we send the communication. Yeah, whether we take the 10%
out of property tax or roads, we can ... discuss, although I sense where ... where we're
headed on that, um, indicating that we'd be open to, uh, contributing, and you know,
maybe it's not the whole 10, maybe it's 5, but we were asked to do 10. Um ... uh, if the
other... if the contiguous cities and the unincorporated Johnson County portion do the
same.
Markus/ Commits the same.
Hayek/ Commits the same.
Botchway/ Matt, I do want to add something else, or unless we're not ... if we are done with this
conversation I wanted to ... I do want to add something to the agenda.
Hayek/ Uh ... okay, just ... just a second, Kingsley. I don't know, are we done with that or...
Payne/ I have something also on that note. For the ... that's part of a joint meeting. Can we go
back...
Hayek/ Yeah, we're ... (both talking) No, we're ... we're still on joint meeting and ... a little, uh, a
little of 13a here.
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Payne/ (laughing) Yeah! I'm going to be out of town on the 28th. Could you attend the meeting
for me, Marian? Is that one that we needed...
Karr/ No, but I'll be there. Yes.
Payne/ I don't need a replacement at that meeting. I can't keep straight (both talking)
Karr/ No. Right, right, no, but I...
Payne/ So I won't be at that meeting, cause I'll be out of town (laughing)
Karr/ Okay.
Dickens/ Again?
Payne/ I'll be out of town all of these weeks on here too.
Hayek/ Are staff comfortable with this direction?
Markus/ Yes. Yeah.
Hayek/ Okay. Kingsley, you are as well?
Botchway/ On the 28th?
Hayek/ No, no, you're comfortable with this direction, the ...the communication back to the
County that we (both talking)
Botchway/ Oh, yes, yes, yes!
Hayek/ Okay! So let's ... why don't we consider (laughs) 13a checked off cause I wanted to talk
about that, and that really wrapped into the joint meeting thing. Um ... Kingsley, uh, if
you wanted to add something to the agenda, is that ... under Council time that you want to
add to a work session agenda?
Botchway/ No, I meant for the joint meeting.
Hayek/ Oh! Okay. What is it?
Botchway/ Uh, I wanted to add affordable housing.
Throgmorton/ Wanted to do what?
Hayek/ He wanted to (both talking)
Mims/ ... affordable housing.
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Hayek/ Okay.
Botchway/ Just because ... and I know it kind of plays into a lost discussion, but you know similar
to what the County's doing, I mean, we're putting 10% to affordable housing. I want to
have the discussion that each jurisdiction would do the same, and neces ... and not
necessarily each jurisdiction as we're talking about with the County's proposal, but at
least there... there's jurisdictions in the metro area.
Mims/ Good luck!
Hayek/ What if we ... what if we wrapped that under just a sales tax... presentation? I mean ... so
that ... that topic could be discussed?
Karr/ Yes, it just ... just recall that if you're not specific... others won't be prepared to respond to
it.
Markus/ Yeah, I...
Karr/ That's the only...
Hayek/ Yeah.
Markus/ Think Marian has a good point and ... and if Kingsley's willing to, you know, tag his
name to it, and at least open the discussion on it...
Mims/ I think it's a good idea!
Karr/ We certainly could use that (both talking) and then two bullets under it.
Hayek/ Two bullets under for presentation and...
Karr/ Or something of that nature, sure.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Markus/ Yeah.
Karr/ We could tie it together that way.
Hayek/ Actually, why don't you put three bullets under it — presentation, County request on the
courthouse, and affordable housing.
Karr/ Okay.
Hayek/ Kingsley, you may get to run point on that.
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Botchway/ That's fine!
Hayek/ Okay, anything else for the joint meeting? Okay, Council time.
Mims/ We're done.
Meeting Schedule
Payne/ Did we do KXIC?
Karr/ No.
Throgmorton/ We ... we didn't do pending work sessions, did we?
Hayek/ No, that's coming up (several talking)
Dickens/ I'll do August 20tH
Karr/ I'm sorry?
Dickens/ August 201H
Botchway/ Are we doing KXIC? (several responding)
Hayek/ Where ... what packet is it in?
Payne/ Ten, IP6 on 10. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ I could do the 27tH, Marian.
Payne/ The 27th isn't on there, is it?
Karr/ It's not on there.
Throgmorton/ It's not?
Botchway/ I can only do the 13th
Dickens/ Well you're on it!
Karr/ 13th?
Botchway/ Yes.
Karr/ Botchway. Thank you.
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Hayek/ I can do the 23rd potentially.
Mims/ Did somebody already take the 30tH.
Hayek/ Somebody take ... (several talking)
Mims/ I'll take July 30t11
Karr/ July 23rd, I'm sorry, was who? Thank you. And then...
Throgmorton/ Well I'm ... I'm due. Is there anything left?
Dickens/ Well you can do August 27th if you want to schedule that far out.
Karr/ And who ... who took July 30th.
Mims/ I did.
Karr/ Thank you. August 13''.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I guess I could do August 27tH. Sorry. (mumbled)
Karr/ Ummm....
Mims/ It's a week out. I only went to the 20th, but I can include the 27th
Throgmorton/ All right, let's ... I can do the 20th! August 20tH
Karr/ Okay.
Hayek/ Got what you need?
Karr/ Yes.
Hayek/ Okay. Council time? Meeting schedule? Pending work session topics?
Pending Work Session Topics:
Throgmorton/ I wanted to bring up one possibility. Uh, in our last meeting, I think it was the last
one anyhow, well... it was the one before it. I wanted to vote against, um, annexing and
rezoning a... a residential development, uh, because I ... I suggested I ... I thought, uh, any
new annexation like that should be required to have a certain percentage of affordable
housing units in it, and I was persuaded by our deft City Attorney that it's not wise to try
to do it on a case -by -case basis, but instead to consider revising the zoning code. So, my
suggestion is simply this. Uh, that we ... uh, ask the Planning and Zoning Commission to
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look into that, uh, possibility of changing the code to require any new residential
development and annexation above some minimum size ... uh, to have some minimum,
uh, percentage of affordable housing units in it. If we don't do it, new stuff on the
periphery will ... not have any affordable units in it. So that's my suggestion anyhow for
a ... uh, a possible topic. We ... so we ... I'm suggesting we could discuss it in a work
session, and if...if there's agreement, we could then move it to the Planning and Zoning
Commission.
Mims/ Yeah, I have not been excited about inclusionary zoning on our own. I just...
Hayek/ Jim, I'll think about it. I ... I'm, it's so...
Throgmorton/ It's too late, I know it is. So it ... (both talking)
Hayek/ We'll talk (several talking)
Throgmorton/ If...if there's just some way we can get it on our agenda so we're not so tired and
we can actually talk about it, that'd be great!
Hayek/ Well, unless there are three it won't, so maybe bring it up at the next when we've got a
fresher set of, uh...
Mims/ Brains!
Payne/ Well the next one we won't, because we're going to be in the same boat at the next
meeting. And it'll probably be ... so, we're ... it...
Hayek/ Yeah.
Payne/ (laughs)
Hayek/ I wish you were more cheerful, Michelle! (laughter)
Mims/ More optimistic! (laughter)
Botchway/ So we... so we don't have three? (several talking)
Mims/ Not at the moment we don't.
Throgmorton/ We have ... we have one! (laughs)
B otchway/ I'm two! I'm two!
Mims/ Got two and a half! (laughs)
Throgmorton/ Who's the half?
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Mims/ Matt! (laughs)
Hayek/ I ... I don't want to commit now. I... but I'll ... Jim, why don't you and I talk. I can't even
wrap my head around it.
Dobyns/ Yeah, I'll talk. I'm just...
Upcoming Community Events / Council Invitations:
Hayek/ Okay, so it's ... it's not added, but ... but it may be at a future time. Um ... other work
session topics? Okay. Uh, upcoming events. You mentioned the Animal Control
groundbreaking — that was nice. Anything else? Okay. I think we're done! Six minutes
to 11!
Dobyns/ Congratulations, Kingsley, you didn't go to midnight!
Botchway/ Yeah!
Hayek/ Good night, Kingsley.
Botchway/ (mumbled)
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