HomeMy WebLinkAbout2014-09-02 TranscriptionSeptember 2, 2014 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Botchway, Dickens, Dobyns, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Council Absent: Hayek
Staff Present: Markus, Fruin, O'Brien, Bockenstedt, Ralston, Bowers, Moran, Knoche,
Fosse, Karr, Dilkes, Boothroy
Others Present: McCarthy, Neal (UISG)
Questions From Council re: Agenda Items:
Mims/ All right, I'm going to call to order the Iowa City City Council work session for
September 2, 2014. Uh, first on the agenda, questions from Council regarding agenda
items.
Karr/ Just like to note the addition of the one item to the Consent Calendar. So we'll be adopting
it as amended.
Mims/ Um, I ... I guess before we jump into that, I meant to say and I will do more on this at
the ... at the formal meeting, but I'm sure all of you in the room know that Mayor Hayek's
father died on Sunday and so he will not be here at the meetings tonight. So ... I'll address
that ... little more detail at the formal meeting, so ... okay. Back to the agenda.
Any... questions?
ITEM 3f(7) Susan Shullaw: Citizen's letter re Senior Housing 8 -25 -14
Throgmorton/ I guess I'd like to, uh, refer to a couple topics. One very briefly. Item 3f(7) which
is a letter from Susan Shullow... Shullaw and others, uh, encouraging us to have
developers propose more senior - friendly housing projects, in and near downtown.
Mims/ Uh huh.
ITEM 8. IOWA CITY GATEWAY - RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING THE DESIGN
ELEMENTS NECESSARY TO BEGIN DESIGN AND ENGINEERING
DOCUMENTS FOR THE IOWA CITY GATEWAY PROJECT AND
REPEALING RESO. 14 -86
Throgmorton/ I just want to express agreement with that. It seems to me that, uh ... uh, that
would be a very good thing, if we could pull it off. So ... just wanted to bring that up. Uh,
I also want to say something about Item 8, which is, uh, the design elements concerning
the Gateway Project. I don't know if anybody else intended to bring this up,
so ... anyhow, um, there... there's three specific things I'd want to mention, even though I
know we discussed this in ... what was it ... one of our June work sessions and ... and sort of
worked our way through it. Anyhow, three specific elements. The first is, uh, it...it
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seems to me that street design elements in the 25- mile -an-hour zone should encourage
drivers to slow down, but the design elements we've approved don't do that. And ... and
that seems to me to be pretty inconsistent.
Payne/ I thought we narrowed the street. Narrowed the lanes.
Throgmorton/ Actually, uh, but we added ... we added another foot ... on ... on the outer sides of
the 25- mile -an -hour zone, closer to the bridge.
Mims/ Yeah, and I think that's a real ... kind of conflicting thing, cause I know somebody had
submitted some stuff to read and they were talking about when you do ... I mean, we
talked about it in terms of place for snow to go, because of the lack of distance between
the roadway and the sidewalk, and so we agreed to that, yet the feel for the drivers is still
a wider lane and I...
Throgmorton/ Yeah!
Mims/ ... am real conflicted about that.
Throgmorton/ The wider the lanes, the more people are just going to go above the speed limit
and ... and take it as normal. So ... maybe we can, uh, discuss that during the formal
meeting. I don't know. I don't know if you want to do it now, but anyhow, it seems to
me we really ought to ... be very clear about what we're intending to do there.
Dobyns/ I ... I agreed with slowing but I was trying to remember the footprint of the new
Dubuque, and 1 think it still has some curves in it, and I think a curvilinear footprint is a
... slows traffic as well as width. (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Rick ... Rick, I'm referring to the 25- mile -an-hour portion of it, which is ... what?
Just south of what, Rick?
Fosse/ South of roughly, uh, Terrell Mill Park, in that area. We haven't pinned down exact
transition yet, and if you'll recall that discussion that evening centered a lot around the
...the bus traffic and having adequate room to drive the buses, especially in that outside
lane, and then also for bicycle traffic, as well, and being able to have some ... some room,
not for bike lanes but for more comfortable sharing of lanes.
Payne/ Yep. I remembered the bus thing and the ... the, um, so the ... if there was a (both talking)
in each one, each lane, the bus on the outer lane could get over so that they could...
Fosse/ Yeah, so the mirrors don't...
Payne/ Yes! That's what I remembered, and then the snow removal too.
Fosse/ Yeah, and ... and the snow removal is ... is more about, well, it's that stair... storage
between the sidewalk and the street, but as I showed you some pictures in winters like we
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had last year, that spills out onto the street as much as three feet in some areas on our
arterial streets.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I know ... my recollection is, uh, at that work session you came in with the
suggestion that we narrow the 25- mile -an-hour lanes to 11 -feet, but add another foot on
the outer curb to ... to respond to the snow removal point.
Fosse/ The curb and gutter section.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, yeah and that ... that's the part I remain uncomfortable with, and I don't
know if anybody else on this Council has rethought that but I wanted to bring it up in
case anybody had.
Payne/ I'm still comfortable with the way it is.
Mims/ Yeah, I'll support the way it is. I ... I would prefer to see it a little narrower, but I'm really
concerned about having room for that snow, um, and as much buf...bus traffic as there is
on that particular segment of...of roadway, uh, with the Mayflower and everything out
there, I...
Fosse/ And there... there's summertime benefit, as well, because during the rains the water's
conveyed in the ... in the gutter section, and if the vehicles are traveling there, then it's
spraying out on the sidewalks where we're trying to have pedestrian traffic.
Throgmorton/ All right. So (mumbled) the final point basically is, the more the roadway design
enables people to travel faster, the more they will travel faster. And if the street design is
such that it requires them to drive more slowly, they will.
Payne/ Understood! (laughs)
Mims/ Yeah, I think we get that. It's just the conflicting things with the water and the snow.
Throgmorton/ I get the point. Okay, so with regard to the ... uh, to the east side sidewalk, I ... I
don't want to kind of say let's completely change that. But what I do want to say is
that ... I hope there's some design flexibility built into that, because of the nature of the
topography, especially, uh, at the southern end, near the bridge. So that ... if putting in a
six -foot wide sidewalk, all the way along, requires... disrupting, uh, some critical
elements of the topography, or damages some trees unnecessarily, maybe we should use
some flexibility and instead of having it six -feet all the way, having it maybe four -feet at
some portion along the way, in order to salvage that. So I'm just wondering if we can
built in some flexibility about that.
Fosse/ That is something we can look at, and it's something that ... that we do in our older
neighborhoods when we were doing sidewalk repairs. Sometimes we'll wiggle around a
big tree and...
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Mims/ Try driving on north Dubuque Road. That's the most crooked, uneven (laughter)
sidewalk I've ever seen! (several talking and laughing) It wraps around the trees!
Fosse/ Yeah! (several talking)
Dobyns/ Yeah, I get that, Jim, I ... I mean, I want to preserve the trees too but also as a biker, you
know, you're going down a... a 10 -foot sidewalk and you see the sidewalk's all of a
sudden magically taper around a utility pole or ... you know ... some of us, I mean, that's
kind of dangerous, from a bi ... a pedestrian probably won't walk into it. Well, maybe
(laughter) but ... but a bicycle. That's my concern too. I ... I definitely see the ying and
the yang of that decision.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I ... I think a skillful landscape architect or a skillful public works engineer
could figure out how to build in some flexibility, and that's all I'm suggesting that we do.
Fosse/ Uh huh. Related to the sidewalk, uh, Rick picked up on some remnant language in that
matrix that ... that we have on the agenda tonight that talks about that off -set for the back
of curb to the face of the sidewalk in that northern portion. The matrix currently says
zero to eight feet, but that should say eight feet off the back of curb, instead of zero to
eight. Our apologies for that.
Dobyns/ And the Park Road to Riverside, which is zero to eight — that also would be ... that's also
a remnant of your imagination?
Fosse/ (mumbled) For the ... the Park Road (both talking) Does that mention zero to eight,
cause...
Dobyns/ Yes!
Fosse/ ...when we come off the bridge, it will be at zero, but then it'll go out further.
Mims/ But the north end up near Foster, that's all eight feet ... instead of zero to eight?
Fosse/ Currently that's the plan.
Mims/ Okay. Okay.
Knoche/ In the area along Hancher, there is some area where it's to be fairly close to the back of
curb, just because of some, uh, blue ribbon trees that are, um, the University wants to
save. So it will be fairly close to the back of curb...
Mims/ Okay.
Knoche/ ... on that, uh, south side.
Mims/ Okay.
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Dobyns/ Ron, thanks for coming out and helping Rick. He's gettin' kind of short-timer on us
(laughter)
Knoche/ And ... and then also, um, along the, uh, park side, on the north side, it's also gonna be
pretty much on the back of curb in that area to ... avoid disturbing the trees. Uh, in the
park.
Mims/ I ... this, I hate to even say this, but I hope it ... I hope this doesn't in any way look like we
are giving more protection to University of Iowa trees than we are to private property
trees. I just...
Knoche/ I ... I don't believe it will.
Mims/ Okay. I just...
Knoche / And, uh...
Mims/ ... sometimes perception can...
Knoche/ Just an update, we met with, uh, the person that's doing the tree, uh, inventory last week
and so they're... they're getting started on that now...
Mims/ Okay!
Knoche/ ... in that whole corridor.
Mims/ Okay. Thanks.
Throgmorton/ So ... so there's one other thing I wanted to bring up with regard to the Gateway,
and that has to do with Kimball Road. Uh, unless I misread the table, the ... the table or
the chart, doesn't show Kimball Road on it. So that ... there's a lot that remains to be
figured out with regard to the design elements having to do with Kimball Road. Right,
so...
Fosse/ Correct.
Throgmorton/ I ... I don't know, does our resolution need to acknowledge that or ... do we just
need to be clear that that's the case cause there's... there's a lot that's undefined yet.
Fosse/ Yeah, there ... there is a lot of design that undefined at this point, but in ... in that matrix,
what we tried to do is identify 71 elements that we thought you all would want to weigh
on, but we ... we drew that line somewhere and we had to, and ... if...if you want to extend
that line one direction or the other we can do that, but ... you know, it ... we had to pick a
point somewhere.
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Mims/ Well on that ... exhibit A, there's Dubuque at Kimball. It talks about the trail. It talks
about... crosswalks. It talks about parkway width. What ... what's missing?
Throgmorton/ Kimball (laughs)
Mims/ Oh, I see what you're saying! Actual Kimball! Okay.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, yeah.
Fosse/ Yeah, the property owners (both talking)
Mims/ Yeah, I'm sure...
Fosse/ ... south side of Kimball have questions about the extent of the fill and... and the elevation
of Kimball Road and ... and those are ... are design features that we continue to work on,
but we don't have answers yet.
Mims/ Okay!
Throgmorton/ So I would think we would want you to come back. You all tell me if I'm wrong
— would want you to come back with us ... to us, about those features so that we can have
some sense of what's being proposed... and...
Mims/ Well I think ... I would assume that we would want more information when it's available
but I'm also assuming that there's a certain amount of, uh ... certainly some limitations in
terms of what can be done there, in terms of options, with the amount that it's going to be
elevated at the intersection.
Fosse / Right. And... and what sort of protection we want, for Kimball Road. Do we want that to
match that level of protection at Dubuque Street or not, but we, you know, we do have
design components throughout the corridor that we're working with different property
owners on and ... and this is just one of those.
Mims/ Okay. All right, anything else on #8 then?
Throgmorton/ No.
Mims/ Okay! Other agenda items? Any questions? Thank you, Rick! None others? All right,
let's move on then. Next on the agenda is to discuss City options for regulation of e-
cigarettes, IP #3 of the ... August 28th Info Packet.
Discuss City Options for Regulation of e- Cigarettes (IP #3 of 8/28/14):
Markus/ Uh, you may want to invite Doug Beardsley up to kind of review his memo and...
Mims/ Come ahead, Doug!
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Markus/ ... suggestions.
Beardsley/ Thank you! Doug Beardsley, Johnson County Public Health. Uh, I was commenting
earlier to Rick and ... and Geoff, it's nice to be in the same room and not be talking about,
uh, a fire, but I am here (laughter) to talk about air quality so .... you know, I kinda
rethought that, and, uh, Susan, if you'd like to come up. Uh, just real quickly tonight
what we really want to do is kick off a discussion. Uh, a little background, uh, the Board
of Health, uh, was very interested in the topic of e- cigarettes and should they be making a
statement or doing something about this. So we did quite a bit of research towards the
end of last year and in February of this year the Board, uh, approved a position statement,
and part of that was to encourage municipalities, uh, businesses, private owners to
include e- cigarettes in the areas where smoking, regular smoking is prohibited under the
Smoke -Free Air Act. Uh, some of the findings there were that indeed ... well, it's an
unregulated product, but in the studies that have been done, uh, to date that there ... there
are, uh, VOCs, volatile organic compounds, uh, particulate matter, uh, nicotine and a
variety of other things in the smoke, or in the vapor, uh, perhaps not at the same
concentrations as tobacco but to the questions becomes why would you want to allow the
degradation of the air, uh, to any ... any level. Um, I'd like to introduce Susan Vileta.
She's, uh, our Health Educator, and we'll have a brief presentation if that's okay. It was
emailed to you. Go through that. I ... I see a lot of folks here. I don't want to take up too
much time...
Mims/ All right!
Beardsley/ Like I say, just kick off the, uh, the discussion.
Mims/ Okay. Susan, welcome!
Vileta/ Thank you! Happy to be here! Kind of a hot topic!
Dobyns/ Baddabum ... chi (making drum sound) (laughter)
Vileta/ How many of you have actually seen anyone use an electronic cigarette? Wow! Okay.
All right. The majority of you. So what in the world are they, for those of you that might
not know or haven't seen one before. So there's a picture there before you. Urn ... some
of them have a lovely little tip that lights up on the end for fun. Um (laughs) they are
battery operated. Some of them you can also charge that battery, much like you would a
cell phone. Uh, if you heard in the news recently there was one on an airplane. Did
anybody hear about that? The ... started a fire in the cargo area, I believe. So, I mean, I'm
sure plenty of chargers and things can do that but ... just one of those things, if you've
heard about it. So you put the ... it's liquid nicotine. Comes in a little, urn ... vile like this,
and I will do some more show - and -tell here in a minute, but kind of looks like this. I can
pass that around, I guess. Pay particular attention to the packaging (laughter) There's a
lovely vanilla ice cream cone on the front of that one. Um and that's more harmless than
some of them. Anyway, so you pour that in there and there's nicotine and the various
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other chemicals that Doug was mentioning, as well as flavorings, and it heats it up, um,
and you inhale, much like you would on a ... on a normal cigarette! (several talking in
background) So, again, as Doug was saying, it's not regulated by the FDA. Um, kind of
just some more facts there. There really isn't any evidence that it is safe. Um, what
some people will say to me is, well, it's gotta be safer, right? It's gotta be safer, and we
don't know everything there is to know yet. If you think back to how many things we're
still finding out about regular cigarettes and tobacco products. I mean, every few years
the amount of con ... cancer-causing chemicals that are found in just a cigarette keeps
going up. You know, when I started this job I think it was 40! And now it's like 70!
Um, 7,000 chemicals total, but 70 that are cancer causing. So ... past that, I mean, past the
idea of it I can be sitting either in your lobby or at a restaurant in downtown Iowa City
with ... with my kiddos and somebody can be smoking one of these. \ I mean they ...they
haven't been around that, you know, and we certainly haven't been around it in public
places in their lifetime. So just that social norm idea of kind of turning back the clock on
that. Um, as much as people want to stay focused, well, how harmful is it? Well, yeah,
how harmful is it? What do you want to introduce into the ... into the air, in here, inside?
Um, is that ... that impact on youth, and I think you'll... you'll see more of that here in a
minute. Something just came out the other day among middle school and high school
students. Um, it's actually tripled now since 2000...20101 believe. 2013 numbers. And
something that all of us health advocates have been talking about is, well, if young people
are going to try an e- cigarette, and it's funny because when I pass these out to adults
when I'm just talking about different things that I work on in the community, you watch
them eye it differently than a regular cigarette. You know? I don't know if it's that it's
electronic or what it is, but it's like ... you can almost see `em kind of wanting to try it,
um, so I have a couple, not that I'm asking you to try them (laughter) but this one has
a ... a snake on it, and it's apple- flavored, um, I ... I don't know about you. I don't know
how many people that smoke that are older that are going to reach for the pink ... the pink
one, but just to give you an idea, and then this looks more like a traditional cigarette, and
then this ... I don't know if you can tell ... gotta be a little strategic because of the
marketing, which of these is an actual cigarette and which... is an e ... electronic cigarette.
So as a business owner, um, or somebody in public with my kids, not knowing ... is that
an e- cigarette? You know? Is it a regular cigarette? So this is just a Camel cigarette, and
then this is one, uh, what's it called ... Rejuve. There's a bazillion brands! That's the
other thing. Bazillion! So, um ... okay, I can talk about this forever, so that's a bad thing!
(laughter) Around the United States many are prohibiting e- cigarettes where traditional,
uh, cigarette use is banned. In the Google alerts that I get every day, when I plug in my
key words in my field, probably every day I see a new municipality around the country
talking about, you know, what should we do with these? Do we ban them, what do we
do? So as of...just July, um, 188 throughout the U.S. and then three states have kind of
more restrictive laws, and a ... a handful of other states actually do have some laws, as
well, but they're not quite as restrictive. So why do this? Um ... I just talked about it.
They look very similar. Enforcement is definitely an issue. Uh, we don't know exactly
what all the chemicals are ... that are in there, and do we want to introduce that into our
indoor air, and ... what else? Health issues that we don't even know about, yet, right? So,
is it legal to do this in your business? Absolutely! You can say that people cannot do
that inside. It eliminates that confusion, um, it just kind of... keeps the stance of the
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regular smoke -free environment that we're all accustomed to. Right? This is the fun
stuff. Uh, just to give people an idea, uh, when you don't work in the work that we do
with the tobacco industry in the back of your head and ... and ... and the lies and the
gimmicks that and the things that they've tried over the years. They pretty much flipped
back to 19 .... who knows what. Flapped out the playbook and, hmmm, let's brush these
off and try them again, right? Um, blu up there, that was in Sports Illustrated. Big
shocker there, and Jenny McCarthy does so much wonderful work for public health, gotta
love her! (laughs) The freedom to have a cigarette without the guilt. A lot of these ads,
as much as, um, some people might say, oh, I'm using it to quit. A lot of them talk about
your freedom to do this wherever... wherever you can or to get around smoke -free bans,
right? They still have to make their money. So how are they going to get around the
laws that are already intact? And then Santa Claus, why not use Santa Claus to try
to ... sell some of these products, right? When I was in Florida, I believe... yeah, and then
the flavors I was mentioning earlier and some of the designs. Um, anything from Hello
Kitty to Spiderman to Batman, I found all kinds of fun ones. And ... Gummy Bear, uh, the
Girl Scouts are recently very upset because they were using `Thin Mint' flavor, uh, and
they felt like that was pretty egregious (laughs) considering what Girl Stou... Scout stands
for! (laughter) And ... then just kind of some fun ones up there in the corner. So, cotton
candy ... so just want you to see that. You might go into a gas station and see things like
this and feel like, oh, okay! I get it! But then you get the bigger picture and it's ... maybe
it's not exactly what you thought it was. Questions?
Mims/ Questions for Susan or Doug?
Payne/ I did want to say thank you for having this in our work packet because ... I was one of
those people that thought what's the big deal!
Vileta/ Right!
Payne/ Until I read your PowerPoint, so ... it was very helpful.
Vileta/ Good!
Mims/ Very informative!
Payne/ (both talking) I'm good! (laughter) I'm good anyway. I'm not speaking for anybody
else!
Dobyns/ (laughter) Give her the pink one. That'll be (laughter and several talking)
Dickens/ ...Englert and somebody was lighting up there. Well, not lighting up. They're...
puffing away on `em and there's, you know, first shock is you see the vapor and you
don't know...
Vileta/ Right!
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Beardsley/ And I've got some other advertisements that I was just reticent to send out on
electronic, uh, stuff in case somebody asks for a Freedom of Information, but there's
some other things you can look at later (mumbled) Um, but anyway, we're ... we're here,
uh, there's a couple, uh ... um, some additional history. Took this to the Board of
Supervisors. The Board of Supervisors for all County property they revised their
resolution, and I believe I sent that out too, to include e- cigarettes in their Tobacco Free
policies, and again it's not a ... it's not an ordinance, so it doesn't affect ... it only affects
their property. There's still some question whether or not municipalities have the
authority to do, uh ... an ordinance on e- cigarettes, but certainly on the property that you
control, uh, that's our recommendation, is we can start there, set an example. Again, one,
uh, it...it does degrade the air, albeit you know that question, well, is it safer than a cig...
a tobacco cigarette? Well, probably but, again, what dose of poison would ... do you want
to introduce to your ... to the air inside. Uh, also the enforcement issue, yeah, you go to a
venue now and someone lights up, and these things are designed... they look like
cigarettes. You cannot tell the difference till you get right up there. Uh, so ... you know,
just from a... an enforcement of the current policies and law, it... it certainly makes sense,
and I think just the example, uh, we're fighting this battle. The youth uptake of these
products is a real concern for... for public health. One, the safety, uh, of them has not
been established and is it a gateway to using tobacco. Perhaps. I mean, again, those are
...those are going to be long -term questions that need to be addressed, but we were so far
behind on the tobacco curve, we're already behind on this curve, uh, so we ... we want to
do something proactive. So our recommendation is that you include this for, you know,
property controlled by the City, you know, wherever, uh, tobacco cigarette use is
prohibited on City property, that you adopt this into that policy, uh, to include e-
cigarettes. And, again, a conversation starter and be happy to provide you additional
information, uh, a copy of the stacks of research that we've gone through, etc.
Throgmorton/ I'd like to ask a question, which I don't think either of you can answer, but under
current City policy, could somebody come in, sit down, and light up? One of these
things. During one of our meetings.
Dilkes/ No. State law would not allow ... well, wouldn't allow the tobacco use, but would allow
the vapor use.
Throgmorton/ Well that's what I meant.
Dilkes/ Yes.
Throgmorton/ The vap ... yeah.
Dilkes/ We don't have any regulation of vapor use currently.
Markus/ So what are you doing at the State legislative level? Cause that's where it seems that
you're gonna have to get some sort of...law changed (both talking)
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Beardsley/ There ... there was a bill passed on, uh, cause prior to this last session, there were no
regulations. No prohibitions on who could buy it or where you could use it, etc. There
was a bill that was passed, uh, restricting 18- year -olds. Uh, the bill got very complicated
in its definition of a nicotine delivery system and a vapor system. There were two
different definitions on there. It was a... a tobacco industry written and sponsored, and
railroaded bill, uh, that went through. So there are some restrictions, but there's some
things that ... that aren't, that we don't like in that! We did try, uh, introducing the
discussion on including this in the Smoke -Free Air Act. Uh, nobody was willing to take
that up. Those efforts are still ongoing.
Markus/ So what's the reluctance? What resistance?
Beardsley/ Well on one side there's (both talking) a reluct ... a reluctance that says we're not
going to regulate this, uh, you know, go away public health. We, you know, we don't
need any more nanny state. Uh, on the other side was a fear, well, if we open up the
Smoke -Free Air Act to that, someone might actually make it worse. Uh, you know, so
those are ... those are the two arguments that we've heard at this ... at this point, so ... but
we're still going to be, uh, attempting those things. But, you know, uh, again, if it was a
policy at the local levels, uh, you know, that's a ... that's a start.
Dobyns/ Is there anything (mumbled) to help, uh, foment things at the State level? (mumbled)
...as opposed to just passing, you know, a, uh, #1?
Beardsley/ Uh, it'd talking to legislators to, uh ... ask them to include this in the ... the Smoke -Free
Air Act, just to... so they've given a definition to all of the products and they could just
include those in the Smoke -Free Air Act... that... the same prohibitions apply.
Vileta/ It sounds very similar to me to how the Smoke -Free Air Act came about. You know?
There's always that discussion, well, do it at the State level. Well, how that builds
momentum and how people learn about that, right, is when it happens at the local level
and then you see the support build for it.
Beardsley/ And ... and just, I wasn't around but I've read the history, you know, uh, the Smoke -
Free Air Act. Um, one of the strategies of the tobacco industry is to get preemption, um,
because they saw municipalities were passing, uh, smoke -free air acts, far and wide, and
those were the most effective. So they went into states and actually sponsored smoke -
free air acts, but then preempted, uh, municipalities from doing anything stricter. Iowa
City used to have ... you were a leader, uh, when was that back in the 80s, was it? Or ... or
early 90s, um, you got that thrown out and then the State took over, uh, and now restricts
you. You can't do anything in addition to that.
Dilkes/ Well the ... the smoke, the current Smoke -Free Air Act does not have an express
preemption provision in it, as the earlier law did. Um, so ... in that respect, there's
certainly less preemption than there was under the old one.
Mims/ Thank you ... very much!
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Vileta/ Thanks!
Beardsley/ Okay.
Vileta/ (mumbled)
Mims/ Sure, that's fine! So, Eleanor, from your perspective, what can we do and what can we
not do?
Dilkes/ You can certainly control your own spaces. Just as a reminder, we've got the Smoke -
Free Air Act, um, at the State level, which, um, prohibits smoking in certain public
places, including the insides of public buildings, etc., and then some of you will recall
that you went further and adopted an ordinance... let me back up for a minute. The
Smoke -Free Air Act also gives, urn ... entities the ... that are in control of a space to make
additional spaces smoke -free.
Mims/ Okay.
Dilkes/ And you did that, um, for instance the State law doesn't make, um, parking ramps, uh,
smoke -free because they're open to the air. You added them, um, in your ordinance. Uh,
it doesn't make a right -of -way smoke -free. You added a portion of the ped mall to that.
Um ... and ... and a couple other examples. Um, so ... certainly you can ... with respect to
the spaces that you control, say that the same rules will apply for vapor as apply for
tobacco.
Mims/ (both talking) So under ... under City ordinance, the only thing that we have con ... are
able to and have controlled is property that we own, that is not specifically excluded by
the State, like the parking ramps and stuff, or...
Dilkes/ That's what your City ordinance addresses. There's no need for it, because the ... in the
other places, but what Johnson County did is they said, um, all the places that we control
that are smoke -free under the Smoke -Free Air Act and otherwise, um, that we've said are
smoke -free, vap ... vapor will be included within that definition. The quest ... my ... my
initial take on whether you have the authority to regulate, um ... the public, places where
the public go in private businesses is that you ... that there is no express preemption in
that ... that I think you have a good argument that you could. But obviously that's above
and beyond. So in other words, could you ... could you simply... say that, um, there will
be no vapor, um, in all those places where the State says you can't have tobacco and all
those places where the, um, the City says you can't — I ... I think you have a good
argument that you could. You could certainly do it with respect to those places that are
under your control.
Mims/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ So why don't we do that?
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Dobyns/ (mumbled) ...heard, Eleanor, is that right now you can't use, uh, tobacco products as
currently defined in restaurants, in public restaurants. We could, because the State allows
that for tobacco products, as a city, we could, um ... make vaping illegal in restaurants in
Iowa City, as well. We have a good argument for that.
Dilkes/ I think you have a good argument that you could.
Dobyns/ Um ... Doug, I'm just thinking about what you said before, is that the ... be aware of
unintended consequences. Um, if, uh ... by being too ... Iowa City was provocative, uh,
progressive maybe to someone, maybe provocative to others in the 80s when Iowa City,
um, tried to put more of a stop to tobacco products and that provoked at the State level,
um ... uh, legislation that led to preemption. So, I'm thinking be careful what you ask for;
you may get it. I personally, as you might expect, would like to consider making vaping
illegal in Iowa City restaurants, realizing that there would be an economic differential
between us and other, um, you know, municipalities around here, but just to think that
forward. If Iowa City starts doing it and a significant amount of critical mass of other
Iowa municipalities do that, what will that do at the State level? Will that really help us
in the long run? Public health, I mean, you gotta be political as well as (both talking)
Beardsley/ Well, I know, and I always try to fall back on, "I'm a public health guy."
Dobyns/ But you know what I'm talking about (both talking)
Beardsley/ Um, yeah (both talking) because ... you know, we've got the precedent of the Smoke -
Free Air Act, which is exactly what happened, and in a lot of other states. I've worked
in ... in Illinois. We ... the same thing, they passed the Smoke -Free Air Act but then there
was express, uh, you know, preemption. You guys aren't going to touch anything there.
Uh, it...it could. I ... I'm, you're certainly going to have pushback from the industry.
Dobyns/ Yeah, cause big tobacco is going to ... they're going to find our ... their way to Iowa, if a
lot of cities start doing this.
Beardsley/ Oh yeah, well, they're already here. Um, the uh ... the ... the e- cigarette bill that was
passed was totally sponsored ... it was ... um, you know, the Lorillards, the Philip Morris,
the Altrias. They own all of the electronic cigarette industry now. It was developed
independently, but they quickly took it all up, so you know, and there's ... you know,
there's memos that have been out there. They don't care what you're addicted to, as long
as they're selling it. So, yeah, is ... you know, uh ... so, it could. I ... I ... I would anticipate
you're certainly going to be challenged, uh, on that, I mean if you expanded it to the
private areas and wanted to pass something, um, I can almost guarantee, you know,
someone's going to challenge that. But, you know, it's already up for a challenge, uh, or
not. (several talking) I ... I think you're safe, and I ... I would agree. I'm not an attorney,
but ... but you know ... uh, you know, the property that you control, I think that would be a
good starting point. Uh, I will, uh, you know, I've ... have noticed a few restaurants and a
few other places have started, uh, you know, putting up little signs saying, you know,
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next to their `no smoking,' includes e- cigarettes. There's been a few places like that.
That's one of the things that we're doing. We're, uh, promoting that and, uh, you know,
going through the Chamber, going through other avenues, and we've had folks call us,
which kind of spurred a lot of this, saying what can or ... or should we do. What do you
recommend? So, we're ... we're promoting it voluntarily.
Mims/ So, what I hear you saying, Eleanor, is ... let me get this right. One we could do nothing.
Two we could apply it just to places that we control, or three we could apply it to places
we control, as well as any that are covered under the State's law.
Dilkes/ Those private places to eat (both talking) don't control, yes.
Mims/ And ... where we would tend to get the biggest chance of challenge is taking number three,
where we're not only doing it for our own property, but we're doing it for private places
that fall under the State law.
Dilkes/ Right, clearly. I mean, I think doing it for your own property, there's... there's little
argument that you can't do that.
Mims / And what you're saying is you think even if we did it for those private places that fall
under the State law, that we still would have a good argument.
Dilkes/ I think you have a good argument.
Dobyns/ And from an economic point of view, I think you could make a case it actually might
help the economy, as it did with smoking, when you limited smoking.
Mims/ I think people are so used to smoke -free places now that...
Dobyns/ E- cigarettes will be confusing, I...
Botchway/ Let's do it!
Dilkes/ I mean one... (laughter and several talking) One of the approaches, obviously, you could
take is do it for the own property that you control and see what kind of response you got
from the private sector, um, in terms of their ... their regulation of their own spaces, and
then if that ... was not, um, successful (both talking)
Payne/ Take a step further... in the future (both talking)
Throgmorton/ It would seem to me it'd be helpful also to have a more formal legal assessment of
our, uh, your ... well, I ... the viability of us extending this prohibition to, uh, those other
aspects of the private economy.
Dilkes/ I can get that, if the Council (both talking)
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Throgmorton/ So, yeah, why don't we (both talking) act on the property we own and ask Eleanor
to look into, uh, the legality of extending it (both talking)
Dickens/ In the meantime you'll get feedback from the restaurants and other places, saying that
we're looking into doing this.
Dobyns/ To be clear, is the intention of Council that we are interested in extending it to
everything under the Clean Air Act?
Mims/ I'm interested. I would ... I would, like Jim, I would ... if Eleanor thinks she can come
back with more concrete information in terms of ... you know, how much do you want to,
you know, stick your head up to get it shot off kind of thing, you know, how much risk
do we want to take in that regard, um, it would seem to me we might as well wait for that
piece to come back before we formally move forward on anything else, and that way we
can decide what we're going to do. Are we gonna just go for our own property, are we
going to go for everything at the same time?
Dilkes/ (several talking) There is some value to me simply telling you that that's what my
opinion is and not...
Mims/ Right.
Dilkes/ ...putting it in writing for all the public and the people who want to challenge us to see.
Mims/ Okay.
Throgmorton/ True. (several talking and laughing)
Mims/ I think I just heard (laughter) a piece of advice!
Beardsley/ I ... I know the, uh ... uh, we vast ... you know, through... through our tobacco programs
in the state, um, and we're told that the Attorney General is supposed to be coming out
with ... a response ... the question was put: do local municipalities have the authority to act
on that. So course you know sometimes they promise things and they ... takes a long time
(both talking)
Dilkes/ Do you know who posed the question? Certain people can ask for Attorney General's...
General's (both talking)
Beardsley/ ...department? (several talking) The Iowa Department of Public Health (several
talking)
Dilkes/ Well good! (several talking) We'll see what they have to say!
Vileta/ (speaking away from mic) ...verbally but not in writing yet.
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Mims/ Okay.
Beardsley/ But I would encourage you (several talking) to do what you can, and... and then
maybe wait for the next level.
Dobyns/ I would be proud to be in the crosshairs of big tobacco. (laughter)
Throgmorton/ Well we got in the crosshairs of the chemical industry 20 years ago when we
proposed regulating, uh ... uh, commercial application of pesticides. In the city, and ... and
the commercial applicators rallied their forces, went to the State, and ... imposed, I don't
know, State preemption on it, so we couldn't ... we had to rescind the ordinance that we
had adopted back then. So ... can happen!
Botchway/ Let's do it!
Dobyns/ Yep, let's do it!
Mims/ Yeah ... well, what are we saying `let's do it ?' (several talking) Our own property or do
all the way?
Botchway/ All the way! (several talking)
Mims/ All the way?
Botchway/ If you're not first you're last!
Payne/ I'm ... I'm okay!
Mims/ All right.
Throgmorton/ That ... that's not what I was going to say (laughter) just to be clear. I was going to
say let's do it for the property we control, and I ... I think there's merit in getting some
assessment from Eleanor, but if she really sees good reason not to do it, I think (both
talking)
Dilkes/ I can give you ... I can give you a, I mean, if you want something in writing, I can give
that to you. (both talking) ... it would be helpful for me to not (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...that we have some interest in possibly proceeding... with regard to the other
aspects of, uh, the private market that we don't directly control.
Dickens/ Well, it has to come back to us anyway to read, so in that meantime there's going to be
plenty of time. Once it hits the papers and everything that we're thinking of going the
full direction that we'll get ... we'll hear back from people.
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Dobyns/ I would phrase that we want Eleanor to ... the ... the intentionality of the Council is to go
all the way, but we will reconsider, depending on what Eleanor brings us. I'd put it in a
slightly different direction.
Markus/ From your Manager's perspective, I would just say — I'm okay with being number two.
That's not last. (laugher) And ... and I always like to see somebody else out there with
their chin out first, absorbing the legal (both talking)
Dilkes/ A litigation clause (laughs) yes!
Mims/ That's kind of where (several talking and laughing)
Markus/ ...just from a fiscal note standpoint (both talking)
Mims/ Yeah! Yeah!
Dickens/ Let's go two and a half!
Payne / What's the half?
Mims/ Well, I guess what I would maybe suggest is that we start have Eleanor maybe working
up at least on... as I called it step two, that we do it for our own property, and maybe give
a little time for the ... Attorney General to ... to come back with their opinion. I mean,
we're not going to give `em a year to do it, but maybe give `em a little time and see if we
feel like that is moving before we totally step out there and ... either have to immediately
back -step or immediately have to start incurring significant litigation costs.
Botchway/ What was the verbal... you said you did receive a verbal opinion back. What was
their verbal opinion?
Vileta/ That it was ... it wasn't preemptive. That it was legal to ... for municipalities to make their
own stricter laws.
Botchway/ I mean, I guess my ... my intention ... I don't ... I just don't want us to get stuck, you
know, um, and I ... I understand what you're saying, Susan, for you know kind of waiting
and seeing what the Attorney General has to say, but ... you know, I feel like we have the
opportunity just to...
Payne/ But it really isn't getting stuck (both talking) if we do two - thirds of it, because we can
always do the other third later if we desire.
Dickens/ And quickly.
Dilkes/ An Attorney General... Attorney General's are ... is required by law to issue written
opinions in response to certain requests. Um, there are certain people who can ask for a,
uh, written Attorney General's opinion, and it sounds to me like that request... that's what
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I'm wondering, if that request has been made, and if it has been made, there should be a
written Attorney General's opinion coming out, and I ... I don't ... I can certainly look into
that and see if the request has been made.
Mims/ Yep!
Markus/ Not to be argumentative, but... (laughter) have we heard a lot of pushback from the
public? Is this been an issue in the restaurants or in the ... the bars?
Botchway/ You know from ... well I don't ... I won't say that I've been to a lot of bars (laughs) but
at least the restaurants (both talking)
Markus/ ....scientific research! (laughter)
Botchway/ (both talking and laughing) Yeah, exactly! I just haven't seen it. You know? I
know people that do it, but I just haven't seen it, and I think that ... that's one of those
situations where I doubt we would get much push -back, except from, you know, big
tobacco industry and I mean if that's the case then feel like, you know, based on, you
know, the verbal opinion and possible written opinion, and what Eleanor is saying, you
know, I think we have a good argument to just move forward, but I'm ... I am also in
agreement of the fact that if you know, if we just want to go ... if you want to go this route
and you know just do number two where we at least do, uh, you know, for our place as
well, but I do want to add one particular point. You know, maybe we then talk to our
State legislatures and see what they can do, or legislators, excuse me! (several talking)
Yeah, and see what they can do about, um, you know, pushing this forward as well, I
mean from a local government talking to, you know (both talking)
Dickens/ ...timeline on the opinion, so we know where we're at.
Markus/ Yeah, we can do that.
Mims/ Okay! So we'll ask staff to do some more research on it, maybe get an idea of when the
AG's opinion might be back, and then ma ... then at that point we can make a final
determination of how far we want to go. Is that... agreeable with everybody, or at least
four of us? Okay, is that clear...
Throgmorton/ I ... I thought we were going to go ahead and do our own property, full stop, but
then... the... the rest would be open.
Mims/ Well I ... I think what we could do is at least get ... if we can, get an idea of a timeframe...
if we're going to get something back from the AG within a reasonable timeframe, it... it
may only require us to do something once and go all the way. If it looks like that could
be months away and we want to do our own property and then wait on that for the third
step, we could. I ... I guess what I would encourage the Council at this point is, let
Eleanor and staff do some more research, come back with a potential timeline — if they
can get any idea of when that might come from the AG — maybe start writing language
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for our own property, you know, bring it back to us and then we can decide on the exact
steps we want to take. Is that...
Dobyns/ Sure. If it's going to take a long time for the all... everything...
Mims/ Then we can move on our own.
Dobyns/ Let's ... let's move on our own quickly on that aspect of it.
Mims/ Okay.
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Mims/ Is that okay?
Throgmorton/ yeah.
Dilkes/ I mean, we ... we can do a ... a simple resolution that addresses your own property. Right
now it's addressed by ordinance because we just added on to the Smoke -Free Air Act and
there are ... there's a ... it's a simple misdemeanor, but if you want to just have a simple
resolution, like the County did, saying the places we control are ... are smoke -free and
smoke includes vapor...
Payne/ Uh huh.
Dilkes/ ...we can certainly do that pretty ... pretty quickly.
Markus/ I would encourage that.
Botchway/ Let's do that, yeah.
Mims/ People want to do ... go ahead and do that one and then we'll wait on the third one and see
what we get?
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Mims/ Okay! All right, sounds like that's the direction (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...but I don't want to wait long. (laughter)
Throgmorton/ Impatient fellow that you are!
Payne/ ...no longer than ... than the end of the year (several talking)
Mims/ Yeah. Then you can stick your head up! (laughs) No! (laughs) All right, next on the
agenda, let's move along. Yeah, thank you very much, Doug and Susan. Appreciate it!
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Next on the agenda, discussion of County request regarding vacation ... I always love that
word, uh, double meanin, of Harrison Street between Clinton and Capitol Streets. This
is IP #4 of the August 28t Info Packet. Ron!
Discussion of County Request re: Vacation of Harrison Street Between Clinton and Capitol
Streets (IP #4 of 8/28/14 Info Pkt.):
Knoche/ Um, tonight, uh, the objective is to inform you of said Cou ... of the County's request
and then also give you what the staff's opinion is in regards to that request. Um, May
19th we received a letter from the County, uh, requesting that we, um ... vacate and convey
Harrison Street between Clinton and Capitol. Um...
Mims/ Uh huh.
Knoche/ ...with the purview that the bond referendum has to pass in order for them to actually
make the formal request. So this is kind of just getting our ... our bearing on that. Um,
and then July 29th they revised the request. Their original request had the annexation
being built into the right -of -way. Um, their revised request actually has the annex being
built on the County's property existing, but they wanted to be able to use it for staging,
um, and then future parking and connectivity with, um, property that they own south of
Harrison Street, along Capitol Street now.
Mims/ Okay.
Knoche/ Um..um, so with that, now we ... we did go out, take a look and see, you know, what
impact that would have on City operations. Um, on a... on the Public Works' side. Um,
obviously the ... the transportation network, really has minor impact on that, um, and then
any utilities, there ... there are no utilities in the right -of -way there that are public utilities.
Um, that ... that are City owned. There is an over -head power line, um, and ... you know,
based on that, the staff's opinion would be that we would ... would be, uh, approve the
request on a staff basis, um, with the purview that they would, or the caveat that they
would maintain a sidewalk in that right -of -way or in that area, basically connecting
Capitol Street to Clinton Street, um ... I think that's... that's the only thing that (both
talking)
Mims/ Salvage the old brick!
Knoche/ Salvage the brick, yep, and uh, and then we would use that for future brick repair
projects (both talking)
Dickens/ They gonna give us anything else for givin' up the street?
Knoche/ Um...
Payne/ A dollar!
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Knoche/ ...you know, I ... I guess that's up for negotiation. Um, one of the things that... there
are other projects that are going on right now. Um, we are looking at doing a water main,
uh, on the west side of town, out to the Landfill, and doing a loop that connects back into
Country Club Estates. Um, part of that is they're looking to donate some right -of -way to
us for that Slothower Road, um, that would actually have where the right ... or where the
water main would be at. So there is some cooperation in regards to some other projects.
(several responding)
Markus/ And in Ron's report, if you, you know, you reviewed that, there's actually some cost
avoidance...
Mims/ Uh huh.
Markus/ ...uh, you know, with ... with the brick street and...
Mims/ 350.
Markus/ ...all of that, and I think the traffic demand that is in that area, we're trying to create a
more walkable place. I don't like to shut down streets, personally, and... especially in a
grid area, but the reality is I think that it probably in the long run will benefit the
Courthouse and ... for whatever use they can put it to, whether it's parking or ... or
expansion of some sort, and...
Dickens/ It's pretty steep there anyway.
Payne / And the street ends two blocks after that, so I mean it's not like ... it's not like putting a
hotel in the middle of Dubuque Street!
Markus/ Right. (laughter) So when they made their original (both talking)
Dobyns/ In the middle of everything, yeah. (laughter)
Markus/ When they made their original request, I think the ... the thought was that they would
expand into that area, but ... I think that's kind of changed with the redesign of the
Courthouse annex, which if you haven't seen it, I think they did a really nice job in the
redesign of that ... that location, but if you look at the complex in total, there's probably
some real advantage to the County obtaining that piece, I would think, in the long run...
Mims/ Uh huh.
Markus/ ...to serve the Courthouse whether it's for emergency vehicles to park or ... or some
other, you know, Courthouse- related kind of activity. So ... I think there's a ... I think this
is a bit of a win -win for ... for both of us, if, you know, if it can play out. It depends, of
course, on what happens with the election, but even if the election were not a success, I
think we'd still want to consider this, uh, in the potential long run.
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Payne / And has this gone to the other utilities? I mean, and obviously that power line serves
something.
Knoche/ I ... I think they ... the only thing the power line serves is a streetlight on the corner.
(laughter) Up on Clinton Street.
Payne/ Cause it looks like here's actually four poles there.
Knoche/ Um, it ... what ... when I looked at it, it just comes up that right -of -way and dumps in
there, but, yeah, we can...
Payne/ Cause the main line's on Court Street, so...
Knoche/ When ... when the formal request comes in, we will pass that on to the utility companies
to make sure (both talking)
Payne/ Okay, so that part hasn't (both talking)
Knoche/ ...that has not been done.
Payne/ Okay!
Knoche/ It just ... just from the City's standpoint.
Markus/ So we're looking for an indication this evening. Details would have to be worked out
(both talking)
Mims/ Right!
Markus/ ...have to come back to Council for formal ratification and ... and acknowledgment of
the details.
Mims/ Right.
Throgmorton/ So am I right in understanding that if we ... if we do vacate the ... the street ... the
right -of -way rev ... would become their property, the County's property?
Knoche/ We ... that ... that's correct. We would ... well we ... if we vacate, we would then have to
convey it to the County.
Dilkes/ So I think what the County would ... I think what the County would like is just a ... a letter
confirming your intent, you know, that you're on -board with that. Obviously we can't do
the formal thing until the vacation comes through, and you can't bind yourself to it cause
there's a public hearing process, but... if... if... if you all can either authorize City
Manager to write that letter... (both talking)
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Payne/ ...work the same way as any vacation, if Ahere was something in there that needed to be
in there, it would ... you would remain... obtain an easement for that, that needed to
remain in (both talking)
Knoche/ That's correct.
Payne/ ... or somebody would pay for it to be relocated.
Knoche/ That's correct.
Dilkes/ And we'll ... make, we'll put all that in the letter.
Payne/ Okay.
Mims/ ...in the language. Okay. From the nodding of heads it looks like you've got support for
that.
Payne/ Yep!
Mims/ Okay. All right, thank you very much, Ron. Appreciate it!
Throgmorton/ Thanks, Ron!
Information Packet Discussion:
Mims/ Information Packet discussion. Um, August 21St. Um...
Botchway/ Um, IP2. Um ... we gotta figure out what to do about these food trucks. Um ... you
know, I've ... I've been there a couple of times, you know, um ... to check it out, and
obviously eat (laughter) but uh ... there ... it's just poor visibility, um, and ... I mean... I'm
still, you know, like we talked about, or like I said the last time we talked about this. You
know, I'm still a proponent of figuring out a way to, um ... to put it somewhere closer to
downtown where the students can be, um, more involved. You know, I didn't even
travel, um, past Iowa City Public Library when I was in school. Um, and so I don't
expect students to go that far and, um, I mean ... uh ... and so from that standpoint, I'm...
I'm a little ... I'm a little worried that the potential fail ... failure of this pilot would lead us
not to have mobile vending and if that's the case, I at least want to give it a fair shot in a
venue that is a little more ... um, accessible to the public and has a little higher visibility.
Um ... but I just wanted to throw that out there for others' thoughts, because like I said,
it's ... and it's good food, I mean, I'm not trying to advocate for bad food. Um ... it's good
food and I think, you know, they're well - intentioned individuals and I know we have to
do a kind of balance between the brick and mortar, um, but you know I just came back
from San Francisco, obviously cause I missed the Council meeting, and they do a good
job, you know. I mean, they have actually a particular section where, um, carts, uh,
mobile vending carts are. Um, but it, I mean, they have that and then they have some
downtown, as well, and the ones that they have in the area weren't being used as well, I
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mean, it's just kinda like a ghost town, and we were driving around there, around the
noon hour, um, but the ones that were closer, um, you know, in the city, in the downtown
area near the hotels and everything else were being used a lot more by, you know,
everybody — pedestrians, bikers, whatever the case may be, and so, um, I'm just
advocating for it to be, um...
Payne/ More visible.
Botchway/ ...yeah, more visible (several talking)
Dobyns/ ...street? Were they on the street and you would just (both talking)
Botchway/ No, they were parked, um, that's...
Dobyns/ They're on a curb; they're like taking up a parking spot or...
Botchway/ You talking about in San Francisco?
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Botchway/ They were, well, the one place I was talking about was kind of...in a weird, you
know ... I don't know, it's kind of like a street but it didn't have ... it wasn't a street. It was
just kind of like a road, but there wasn't a ... a continuation. It was just ended. And so
they were in kind of like a semi - circle there (both talking) yeah, but uh, for the ones that
weren't, um, they were just kind of parked in a particular, uh ... you know, parking place
and I'm assuming ... I didn't ask too many questions. I'm assuming there was some
permit that they were given by the city to allow them to be there for some allotment of
time, um, and then they have to move on after whatever hour, but you know it's ... it was
highly visible. I mean, you could ... you couldn't miss it.
Payne/ I was...
Botchway/ ...especially with some of the trucks that we have here, it'd be the same thing.
Payne/ I was just in Salt Lake City, and one day a week they have a place in downtown Salt Lake
City, they close down the street and they're just all on the street! (several responding)
You know, I mean in a ... what I would call a very visible location, I mean, and the lines
were ... long!
Markus/ But what you'll notice about the ones in Salt Lake City is, they're not in the specific
vicinity of a lot of brick and mortar restaurants. My rec...
Payne/ It was... with... within a block of the mall.
Markus/ Yeah.
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Payne/ You know, but yes ... I mean (both talking)
Markus/ Off... off that park area?
Payne/ Yep!
Markus/ Yeah.
Dobyns/ Are they in residential areas in (both talking)
Payne/ No it was a commercial area.
Markus/ No, no, it's ... no.
Dobyns/ Okay, so commercial... cause downtown we have a pretty high restaurant density.
Markus/ Yeah.
Dobyns/ So you're talking about other commercial aspects of Iowa City that aren't as high -
density restaurant, like ... you know, okay.
Markus / And I think you have to ... you kind of have to search for those areas to determine what
a ... a concentration of employees, or persons that are likely customers of those, that are
not already being served like they are in the downtown, and we have six, I think, six is
the number of mobile vendors in the downtown right now, and I think there's always
been that kind of push -pull as to what the right balance and numbers are down there, but I
think you have to be careful about the impact on bricks and mortar, and again I'll go back
to my fiscal notes because you know now you've got people paying property tax and
other things that they contribute to ... that a mobile vendor isn't necessarily subject to, and
the mobile vendors a lot of times are very prime -time oriented. So they're going to pick
off the times, they're going to move in and move out, and ... whereas your ... your brick
and mortar people are there day and night. So you did get a memo from the Downtown
District Executive Director and I think she kind of laid out that same kind of argument. I,
you know, and with Geoff s help and I think with, uh, some other folks in town, we can
probably find a more conducive area ... that has...
Dickens / What's... what's the national trend on ... these mobile things? I thought it was starting
to wane a little (both talking)
Dobyns/ Wane, yeah, that's what I heard.
Markus/ I think ... I think it's, you know, a lot of these things are a bit faddish but ... you know
there's...it...it...I think it also depends on the, urn ... the menu, the ... how eclectic the
menu is and, you know, people develop a following, just like a restaurant develops a
following, and so if you could find an area where there's an employment or where there's
a lot of walkable that's not being currently served, that's where we'd want a, you know,
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consider a concentration of these, and even in the ... in the downtown area, you now, we
tried to ensure that they're there for a... a period, a fixed period of time, and we have
slippage on that all the time, and ... and so what happens is they're there during prime
time and then they kind of move on when the ... the going's not so great (noises in
background)
Mims/ Yeah.
Markus/ So ... I think that there's, you know, there may be some other venues in town that makes
more sense, that we just haven't tapped yet, and I think we should, you know, probably
keep looking at those.
Mims/ Yeah, I would agree. I think ... you know, if we let people out there and ... and again, we
have to do that balance with the brick and mortar, but if there's places that do have that,
uh, pedestrian traffic that are more visible that we can find something... I'd certainly be
interested in ... kind of continuing it, even if it's on a pilot basis, till we kind of get the
right ... the right mix.
Markus/ Yeah. Yeah.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, but we understood it was an experiment, so let's continue the experiment...
Markus/ Yeah!
Throgmorton/ ...you know look at some other possible venues.
Dobyns/ ... and tweak it a little bit. (several talking)
Botchway/ I just ... cause I know in your memo, I just wanted to make sure that we didn't
discount `em, because in your memo you spoke about they didn't want to use, or there
hadn't been any applicants for the East Side Recycling Center. I just didn't want, you
know, and I... obviously we're all here, but I didn't want Council to think that, um, you
know, that meant people weren't interested. I just think that they saw it as a venue that
people...
Payne/ You have to drive to get there!
Botchway/ ...yeah I mean so (several talking) I just ... I just didn't want you to think that, you
know, they weren't trying to do stuff and, you know, from ... I've been out there a lot, so I
mean I've had multiple conversations with `em and um...
Markus/ No, I don't think the experiment's over yet!
Botchway/ Okay! I just wanted to make sure.
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Mims/ Okay! Other items in the 20 ... packet of the 21St? I would just mention IP4, uh, Charter
Review Commission is having, and I'll mention this again at the formal, um, community
input forum on Tuesday, September 23rd, here in Harvat Hall.
Payne / And that has ... that's for sure now?
Mims/ Yeah, it was in ... it's also in the 28th packet, as well, so...
Throgmorton/ And they're planning to follow it up with another ... forum of some kind, right?
Mims/ Yeah, I think they're planning on at least two or three but ... later, after the first of the
year, I think on the others. With different formats.
Dobyns/ What's the timeline for Charter Review? April or May for their final report?
Karr/ April.
Dobyns/ Okay.
Mims/ Anything else from the 21 st? 28th packet?
Throgmorton/ IP6.
Mims/ Okay, on IP6 and 7, um, these I think are both going to take quite a bit of discussion. I've
talked to Tom. I know Tom's talked to Stefanie. Um, and it ... I think if we want to have
a ... potentially a very, very limited, uh, input or just... information or questions that we
want asked, either getting it to Stefanie by email or whatever. What I would propose is
that we actually put this on the work session calendar, and um, again, through Tom and
Stefanie we've ... kind of had some communication, and she has an incredibly busy
schedule with a number of Human Rights Commission events going on this fall, and
we're looking at putting it on the November 18th work session. Um, we want to make
sure we get it scheduled so we don't... obviously don't forget about it. This is the first,
um, first full -blown diversity report we've had since the Ad Hoc Diversity Committee.
Um, I think if you look through the information, there's a lot of information in there from
a lot of different sources, and I think we need to have, um, a much more extended
conversation and discussion than we can possibly have tonight, and personally I'd like to
have it sooner, but I think given the calendar, um, that this makes sense. It gives staff a
reasonable amount of time, and I think it also gives us a reasonable amount of time, now
that we've read through this stuff, to make sure we get detailed questions and stuff to
staff so they have time to respond, um, where ... you know, to get the information that we
might need.
Throgmorton/ You know I ... (several talking) I ... I don't have a lot of detailed questions. I ... I
think both of them are ... both the reports, the one from the National League of Cities
and ... and the Equity Report that Stefanie put together for us. Thank you, Stefanie, for
doing that. Uh, are both very important, and... and, uh, they're timely; they mark an
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important step — both of `em mark an important step for us. Stefanie gives us all sorts of
good, uh, ideas, uh, that she extracted from the, uh, NLC report.
Mims/ Uh huh. Yep.
Throgmorton/ Uh, I think we need to follow up on them, pretty aggressively, uh ... I ... I have just
one little question. I won't even ask it here. I'll send it to Stefanie, but ... but as, just as a
principle, I think we need to follow up on both of these reports and take them very
seriously.
Mims/ Oh, that's why I want to (both talking) on a work session!
Throgmorton/ (both talking) ...yeah, and...so...so I just want to emphasize that ... I'm not
disagreeing with ya, I just want to emphasize that ... that, uh, I would think the topic is so
important that we shouldn't just have it be an item on a work session agenda, uh, cause
that runs the risk of us running out of time and not really being able to probe what we
need to do, we as a Council, in response to the two reports. So I think we ... we need to
dedicate sufficient time...
Mims/ Oh, yeah!
Throgmorton/ ...in that work ... in a work session, to make sure we (both talking)
Dickens/ ...only thing on that work session.
Throgmorton/ That's what I'm trying to say basically.
Mims/ Yeah.
Payne / And ... and you don't want-what I don't want is it to take the whole work session time;
we don't get done. Then we have a meeting that doesn't get done until 10:30, and then
we have to finish and you're trying to make a decision after ... at 11:00 at night. I mean,
it's just ... I would rather just dedicate, like you said, just dedicate only that thing to being
on the work session.
Botchway/ Well yeah and I agree, I mean, for ... at least, you know, from a ... this would give the
public some time and give the, or ... public some time to talk about it, and obviously the
public to talk to us about, you know, what they think about the report. So I ... I think
there's a good amount of time and I appreciate you wanting to put it at November 18tH
Um, one thing I will say that would be really cool, uh, for lack of a better word, if we got
done right now is, um .... I don't know if I can find it, um ... right away, and Stefanie, you
might have to help me with this but there was actions as far as what we can do at
the ... um, at the conclusion (mumbled) part, and there one ... there was one in particular,
um, that spoke to ... um, a ... action that City Council could potentially do, and that was
just some type of acknowledgment of racial disparities. I think if we were able to get that
done right away, that would speak to the importance of the situation and I think that, um,
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that would be very timely, and I don't even think that it's saying much. I think it's just
saying that, um, we see these disparities; we acknowledge them being, um, issues in our
community; and we are committed to doing something about it; and obviously I'm, you
know, not as verbose as you know, um, Eleanor or whoever's going to draft the particular
resolution, but um, I think it's something that we could get done right away from what
we've read and it wouldn't take, you know, much at all.
Throgmorton/ Stefanie, were you going to say something?
Bowers/ Well I think Kingsley kind of answered his own question, but I didn't know if you... if
you're referring to the action plan, it was #5 (both talking)
Botchway/ Okay.
Bowers/ Yes. Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ Well I would agree with Kingsley.
Mims/ Well, there was so much there I don't remember exactly which one that was and ... or
exactly where it was in the ... packet. I mean we've done certain things and I
guess ... um ... I guess without having... without actually looking at it a little more
closely ... I'm not comfortable just rushing into something that I'm not sure what I'm
doing here.
Markus/ You know maybe... Kingsley, I ... I ... my recollection is we actually did do some
statement similar to what you're talking about, but if that's not the case we'll find out.
Mims/ Okay.
Markus/ Just let us review it....
Mims/ Yeah.
Markus/ ...and then report back at the next meeting. (several talking)
Dobyns/ ...in the whereas of the ... lot of the documents we had before.
Mims/ Yeah.
Dobyns/ But it sounds like ... (both talking)
Markus/ Here's a comment. It says ... that ... (both talking) the requirement. Yeah, the ... so
everybody's on the same page. The statement of commitment from the Council, a
resolution by the Council that states it is working to eliminate disparities with it. So we
didn't ... we haven't done that part yet. Is that the case?
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Bowers/ Correct. It was actually two -fold. One is, uh, kind of a statement of commitment from
the Council and then the other is whether or not, um, the Council wanted to look at, um...
uh, some type of equity, um, like impact review statement or that... sometimes they're
called `racial impact review statements.' Uh, basically that would be up to Council, but it
was kind of a two -part action plan. The first was the commitment and then the second
was whether or not, um, the Council wanted to look further as far as a ... impact review
when things are coming before it. So...
Botchway/ And I think ... and I remember seeing and I think that that last, or the second one you
were talking about as far as the equity review I think is going to take more time, and
that's why, I mean, I do think we need to take more ... but on that one in particular as far
as just the commitment from Council that we are going to, uh, address these disparities, I
think, would go a long way. I mean just from people I've talked to in the community,
one of the biggest things is that, you know, uh, they feel there's been no
acknowledgement. I'm not saying there hasn't been in the past, and there's been
possibly, you know, some of the whereas and you know other resolutions, but it just
being that particular resolution and just speaking to that, maybe even just being one line.
Payne/ But hasn't the Ad Hoc Diversity Committee and all the recommendations, doesn't that
show we have commitment to doing something with this, in addition to the ongoing
commitment with the, uh, traffic study that we're going to continue to do? I mean, aren't
those things showing the commitment?
Botchway/ I'm not saying they're not. I'm just saying that a statement does go a long way of,
you know, saying that, you know, something has happened and that we're committed to
doing something about it. I ... I agree with you, I mean, there's... there's things that we
have done. There's things that people, you know, won't read about. They won't, you
know, they ... they won't get the ... in the news (mumbled) or whatever the case may be
and that people won't follow up on, but I ... I know for... a fact that people will, um, will
...will like that acknowledgement, will love that acknowledgement was actually the word
I was going to use, um, and feel like at that point now can... Council was doing
something, and so I ... I don't think it's from ... I don't think it's a PR move. Uh...
Payne/ I think that's exactly what it sounds like!
Botchway/ To ... to, maybe to a certain extent, but I ... I just think that, um, people need to see the
yeses across the table, that this is something that people are committed to.
Payne/ And I think that's we've already done. I mean, we are committed to this.
Mims/ Well let's have staff go back and look at what we've actually done and ... is that what you
were going to say, Tom?
Markus/ As I listen to this conversation, you know, it's ... even if it's redundant (several
responding) and to some degree...
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Payne/ Then you think it's worthwhile?
Markus/ I think redundancy doesn't hurt anything.
Dobyns/ I think it's like teaching. Sometimes you (both talking)
Markus/ ... just an affirmation of... of what I think you're saying and what Kingsley's asking for,
to get to this (both talking)
Payne/ Well let's just do it every week then!
Dobyns/ Well and ... and I guess what...
Payne/ (laughs) To make sure everybody gets it, let's do it every week!
Markus/ Well, I ... I think that was a pretty clear statement though, as I read it, Geoff handed it
over to me and I'm not sure we specifically did that. I think you're right. I ... I'm
comfortable with what we're doing, but ... to have a ... affirmative statement to that effect
may play well in the community (both talking)
Dickens/ ...what we're going to do?
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Markus/ I ... I just, you know, even if it's redundant...
Payne/ If it gives everybody a warm fuzzy ... okay! (laughs)
Dobyns/ Kingsley, I was wondering, when you (several talking) when you have conversations
with people, do they ... do they just say `we would like to hear something like this from
Council,' or do they acknowledge that, you know, in the past we've heard it, and you
know we'd like to hear it again.
Botchway/ Let me ... let me be clear. I mean, you know ... let's not trot out ... I mean, we have
done things. Let's not trot out that we've done the best or we've done the most. I think a
lot of people have, you know, specifically even from the diversity recommendations, I
remember coming to this Council in particular and saying that there needed to be more.
And so ... and I think that a lot of people in the public, at least I've talked to regarding this
diversity recommendations have feel ... felt the same way. I ... I think, you know, based
on, you know, the multiple reports that have come out of the media, you know, um,
trouncing Iowa City, um, for you know the racial disparity in this area, um ... obviously
the national issues, um, obviously, um, just the situations that have happened, um, on a
regular basis, um, I think that it's ... to me it's kind of a ... a renew, a starting point, to say
that you know we're ... we're going to commit to this and make it a priority. I'm not
saying that it isn't a priority or it hasn't been, um, obviously for the last year, two years,
or even possibly before that, but ... I think it's important to, uh, make clear that it's a
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priority, and other cities do it for a bunch of other different things. Whenever we have,
you know, any type of, you know, um, statement about `we promote air quality,' you
know, we make a ... we ... other cities make a resolution and say that we promote air
quality. Obviously the cities promote air quality but, you know, they make a statement,
an impact statement saying that they're going to commit to those particular things and so
I just feel like it's the same particular situation and we should, you know, treat it
accordingly.
Throgmorton/ I ... I want to agree with Kingsley. Uh, I think it's clear we have made several
good, first steps. The appointment of the Ad Hoc Committee was important, the response
of the staff was important, uh, the fact that these two reports have been, uh, given to us.
The one that Stefanie wrote directly and then the one, the memo conveying the National
League of Cities report. These are all important steps and the various commitments that
Tom, on behalf of the staff, had ... had made with regard to acting further, uh, with regard
to these issues is important, but I believe it is also correct that from the point of view of
virtually everyone I've talked to within the African American community, what we've
done is just ... just baby steps. And ... and so there's real concern that ... that we're not
really, really taking this seriously. So, I ... I think we ... we need to take the next steps,
that's all. (several talking)
Payne/ I think actions speak louder than words, and we are making actions. If you want to make
a resolution, it's just more words, but okay.
Dobyns/ I think ... I think words are important here, Jim, I would agree that to go forward on
these issues I think we have to acknowledge that we've done some real work in the past.
I ... I feel kind of negative about the language as far as baby steps. I don't consider what
this Council and this staff has done as baby steps. Maybe that's (both talking)
Throgmorton/ I think I said first steps, didn't I?
Payne/ No.
Dobyns/ Uh, I would (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...I said some members of the community (both talking)
Dobyns/ ...consider the steps we've taken to be substantive, but I'm not going to be the word
person here. Um ... but I think the best way to get ... the majority of Council forward on
this is to acknowledge with some... reasonably strong language, that we have had
substantive actions in the past, and I think that sort of language would propel us to be
more earnest and aggressive in the future.
Mims/ Well and I think ... I think one thing that we have as an opportunity here is, you know,
we're sitting here at the beginning of September. We're looking at, you know, eight or
nine weeks before we actually would take this up at a work session because... because of
schedules for the fall, and doing something like this, looking... looking at what we've
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done in the past and maybe building on that in terms of a resolution or something, you
know, in terms of our, um, the ... how important we see this and talking about what we
have already done and what we are planning to do for the future may also get that out
there in the media that, you know, this is a huge work session item that we are going to
be taking up that we give great importance to. It is the first full -blown annual report, um,
since having the Ad Hoc Diversity Committee and getting more public attention to that in
terms of what we, uh, hope to do in terms of moving forward. So I mean I would be, uh,
supportive of that. Another related point, and... and Jim and I had a conversation late last
week and I kind of, uh, talked to Tom about it today. Related to the whole diversity
issue, one of the big things that you saw in this packet is the lack of diversity within City
staff. And as Tom has mentioned, certainly to me in numerous conversations over the
last couple of years, how State law with the civil service requirements, uh, can sometimes
make it very, very difficult to diversify City staff, and when Jim and I were talking and I
went... and then Tom and I talked about this and we were all in agreement that we would
like to move forward with the City, uh, sponsoring a ... an informational session or
whatever we would chose to call it, this fall, um ... directed particularly towards the
minority community on what civil service is and how to go about trying to get a civil
service job, what the testing is, what the timeframes are, um, what those tests might look
like and then from that point, trying to explore opportunities and maybe some partnering
with other agencies in terms of helping people prepare for those tests. Um, one of the big
barriers for people for City employment is the civil service exams, and most people have
no clue that this even exists until they think about maybe applying (mumbled) you gotta
do the civil service, like what is that? How do I do it, and by then it's too late. They
either can't sign up for it or they think about it and they start looking at what it takes to
pass these tests and they're like I can't do that. So what ... what we've talked about is
doing a program like that this fall, um ... so I'm (both talking) interested in (both talking)
Payne/ Education is good!
Mims/ Uh huh.
Payne/ To get to people to understand how it works and...
Mims/ Uh huh.
Payne/ How do I work ... how do I get in the system?
Mims/ Yeah, exactly! Exactly! How can I get in the system? (several talking)
Payne/ Information! (several talking) Yep! (laughs)
Mims / And so, you know, related to our earlier point, I think you know tying some of these
different pieces together in terms of reiterating that as a Council and as a city we are very
committed to, uh, moving forward. We've done certain things. This is how we plan to
move forward. We're going to have a major discussion on November 18th. We would,
you know, plan this informational session for this fall, uh, to help open the doors, remove
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barriers, however you want to phrase it, um, and not only would that open the doors, you
know, remove barriers for City employment, but any ... with any municipality I am
assuming with the County as well, a lot of their employment opportunities are contingent
upon civil service exams and so, um, to help people get informed and get... and
um ... connect them with opportunities for training preparation for the test, I think would
be very advantageous, as well.
Markus/ You know, not ... not to diminish what we've done but I think we all kind of recognize
when you read the NLC report, it's kind of few and far between quite frankly in best
practices, and so a lot of people are kind of feeling their way through this whole maze of
how do we deal with these issues, and I think there's going to be a lot of trial and error to
get to success, and so this isn't a one -year deal and we're out. This is ... this is going to be
a long -term haul to ... to just keep plugging away at this and trying different approaches to
make this all work. And uh, just some of the things that we've already done, um ... we
didn't get the response, quite frankly, that we needed and I talked to Stefanie about one of
our programs that we initiated and we didn't really get, um ... the involvement of the
minority community and I don't know if that's because we didn't communicate into
the ... the community the correct way. We didn't make the right connections, but in
talking to Stefanie, we're going to have that conversation to figure out how we involve
the minority community so that we can build on it, cause I think the program that got
created, and I won't go into it in detail, I think was a successful program, but ... I was
hoping that the target audience would be involved in this, and it's about involving. We
kinda thought, you know, one of the things you have to do is you have to get youth
involved.
Mims/ Uh huh.
Markus/ To get youth involved, to have an interest in public safety careers.
Mims/ Uh huh.
Markus/ You know, we ... we created a program ... we need to just keep workin' on those things
and keep changing `em, so ... while people may diminish or not think of what we've done
is the end -all, we don't think it is either! We think that this thing is going to, you know,
it's going to take a lot of time and effort and trial and effort.
Payne/ And I ... I guess where I was going is, I don't want to make a statement that makes it look
like we haven't done anything. I want to, I mean ... yes we've done all these things and
we're committed to going further. I'm okay with that, but I don't want it to make it look
... diminish everything we've already done.
Botchway/ I'm not ... I'm not saying that it has to. I just think it's something that needs to
happen right away and you know, you ... you can take the perspective that, you know,
everything that we have done. I mean, even with the executive report, is basic ... I mean,
if I'm just a regular Joe Schmoe and I haven't come to a lot of Council meetings, and I
wasn't on the Diversity Committee. Basically you gave me a report that tells me what I
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already know. Um, and that's... that's what I ... I'm assuming I'm going to hear as soon
as I leave this Council meeting and maybe throughout the week, and I'm not discounting,
Stefanie, the work that you did, but I ... I mean, even when the diversity report came out
from the, A... Coalition of Racial Justice, a lot of the comments I got was, you know, this
is ... we already know! So what ... what steps are going to happen, what actions are going
to take place to get them done. Again, I'm not saying that we haven't done something.
Um, but I ... I do think just an acknowledgement. It's almost like there's ... just an
acknowledgement there is a problem! Period! I mean, I ... I think, you know ... we ... we
talk, I mean I guess I don't know ... I don't know. I can't say we (both talking)
Markus/ The statistics bear that out (both talking)
Botchway/ ... and as you said, there is a problem! We are going to address it. I mean, I think the
(both talking)
Mims/ ...have staff (both talking) Yeah. Let's have staff take a look at what we've done, see
what else we can do in terms of the statement that will, uh, reaffirm if you will ... that we
recognize that there are issues that we are, you know, we started more than a year ago,
uh, with some significant steps, uh, to address these issues and .... you know, we've gotten
our first report and I think this will give us a really good stepping stone in terms of
determining what those, uh, steps are ... for the future. I think there's some really good
recommendations in there that we want to take a look at, um, how we can implement
those, how we need to get community members involved, etc., um, and go from there.
So...
Throgmorton/ Susan, I want to bring up, uh, one other point. There's a pretty big gap between
the first report that came from NLC and ... and Stefanie's memo that ... that, uh, presented
that report to us ... uh, and the equity report. What I mean is, the equity report I think
rightly and fairly — I'm not criticizing it — focuses on City government operations —
employment practices, etc. — and things we can do to change those particular practices.
Whereas the NLC report and ... and Stefanie's fine summary of that focuses on
unemployment, poverty, uh ... uh, family, uh, for .... I'm forgetting the other categ...
education...
Mims/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ The ... the big picture of, uh, basically of race relations and disparities, uh, among
races, uh, within ... uh, within the Iowa City area.
Mims/ Right.
Throgmorton/ Uh, so ... what I would like to see, you know, is us to be ... begin thinking about
those next steps. What can we do ... a ... after we start ... you know, instituting more of
these changes at the City staff kind of level. What ... what can we do beyond that in terms
of City leadership to pro ... promote black male achievement, for example. So that...
that's... that's all I'm advocating (both talking)
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Mims/ Oh (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...let's be looking ahead. So we can get to that more thoroughly when we do our
discussion (both talking)
Mims/ Right, and ... and my point of wanting to do, you know, this as a work session, I ... and I
agree with the idea that ... that it's a full work session, is ... certainly not just to focus on...
City employment. I think that's only one very small piece. I think if we address some of
these other things, that almost takes care of itself in the long run. Um, I think the ... the
National League of Cities' report that ... that I had submitted, you know, a year ago in
May, I submitted it because I thought it had just some really important thought -
provoking, uh, information and data that we need to figure out a way, you know, of
addressing in terms of, you know, the whole social fabric of our community. So ... I,
yeah, I think that's very important. Okay. All right, well staff will work on that, uh, and
we'll get this scheduled then for November 18th. Are there other items on ... uh, in Info
Packet the...August 28th? Well, I have a number I'm just going to comment on real
quickly. Um, glad to see that we're going forward ... I don't know if staff really needed
any direction on IP8, the St. Ambrose study. That's... pretty well set that we're just going
forward on that?
Markus/ Just ... that's kind of an update.
Mims/ Okay. Um ... appreciated, uh, Dennis' letter to Mary Gravitt ... I, on the taxes and stuff. I
think that was very nice and kind of some clarification for, um, a community member
who's very committed to following what we're doing. Um ... I'll mention this also in the,
uh, formal, but wanted to say congratulations to Ron Knoche on his, uh, selection as the
next Public Works Director, and to Kent Ralston as Executive Direcutor ... Executive
Director of MPOJC, and very nice letter that was in the packet, uh, commending Joan
Sider, one of the City employees on, um, her outreach on a complaint, um, and done in a
very nice and professional way, so ... thank you to her! Um ... anything else from anybody
on...
Payne/ (both talking) You brought up the, uh, letter that Dennis wrote to Mary.
Mims/ Yes!
Payne/ As long as you did that I'm going to bring something up on there. The utility franchise
tax.
Mims/ Uh huh.
Payne/ Where it says ... that it can be used to cover the City's expenses to administer utility
companies' use of the City's right -of -way. And then you go on to give three things that
we use it for. Inspecting, supervising, and otherwise regulating the MidAmerican Energy
Company's gas and electric franchise. Public safety including the equipment
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of ..equipping of fire, police, and emergency services. Public infrastructure to support
commercial and industrial economic development. So how do number two and three
relate to administering the utility companies' use of the City right -of -way?
Bockenstedt/ Well (laughs) that's a good question! Um, a lot of it is, I would say, indirect. You
know, and when the court case when Des Moines, um, went to court, and the whole
utility franchise, you know, when they say that they're kind of using that to administer
the right -of -way, it's a very broad definition of it. So when we do, um, like we're
rebuilding a street, um, then they ... the utilities are relocated, you know, along that street
or if there's, um ... you know, I'd say services that require the fire department to ... take
action within the right -of -way or operate within the right -of -way, all those affect the...
the utilities that are in that right -of -way, including say water, sewer, electrical, what have
you. So I think you have to think about it holistically and not specifically.
Payne/ Yeah, I mean I'm looking at like okay so public safety including equipping of fire, police,
and emergency services. So if somebody's digging and they hit a line, the fire tar...
department responds. Okay, you can ... that one you can make work (laughter)
Dobyns/ But economic development, do you have a (both talking)
Markus/ The ... the police'll respond in those cases.
Payne/ Right! Both, so both of those are in the same line. So public safety, okay, you can make
that ... but public infrastructure, to support commercial and industrial economic
development? How is that related to the ... the utility companies' use of the right -of -way?
Bockenstedt/ Well, and-and (laughs) think of any specific uses but like I said I think you ... I
think you have to think about it, cause most of the economic development activities
involve some form of utility usage. So, you know, if we're involved in say like a ... a
development of a building, there may require the undergrounding of utilities or the
movement of utilities and frequently the City bears the cost of the undergrounding or
movement of those utilities. So ... I think you have to think about it more than just how us
dealing with the utility company is (mumbled) aspects that go into the usage, movement
of... and the activities around those utilities.
Payne/ Right! And I, I mean, I get it ... but the two things don't really go together for the general
public. They're go ... you know, the general public can read this and go, these things
don't go together at all!
Bockenstedt/ Well and ... those uses, and I'm not sure where they came from ... were when that,
uh, utility franchise tax was passed and put into place, those uses were determined at that
time, I'm guessing, through the budget process. So as far as I know those uses aren't
hard coded into any ordinance or any, uh, resolution or anything that we're bound to.
Those were the uses that were determined at that time, um, some of that may have to do
with the, uh, construction of the, uh, number... Fire Station #4. (several talking)
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Dilkes/ Let me ... let me just clarify for a minute. (several talking) I ... the ... the ... the franchise
fee, um ... the ... the State law that allows us to do a franchise fee has specific, I mean, uses
for it, but I...1, they're fairly broad. I think we're... it's... it's a ... it's actually an
allowable tax at this point. It's not related to the earlier Des Moines' case where the
court invalidated their franchise fee, as a tax, because there was no statutory authority to
make the tax. So why don't you just let us give you the definition of the ... of, from the
code, that says what we can use it for.
Payne/ And the reason I bring it up is cause Mary has brought it up several times in public
meetings that I pay this fee, why can't you use that money?
Dilkes/ Uh huh.
Payne / And you... you explained it to her, but if you really read it you're going how do these two
things go together?
Dilkes/ Yeah, I just... Michelle, if I could put my finger on the code (both talking) code section
right now I'd tell you what it is, but I can give you a memo (both talking)
Payne/ Yep! I'm fine. I just...
Dilkes/ Yeah.
Payne/ ...if somebody from the public reads this and says this doesn't make sense.
Dilkes/ I think there's a little bit of a confusion there in terms of what State law allows us to do,
and what we've decided to do with it.
Payne/ Yep.
Dilkes/ So we'll ... we'll clear it up!
Payne/ But ... you did a good job (laughter) on the explanation, of the examples! (laughter)
Mims/ All right! Anything else on ... the Info Packet? Are we ready to move on? (several
talking in background) All right, Council time? Kingsley? (mumbled)
Council Time:
Botchway/ Um ... Taste of Iowa City was absolutely amazing. I saw Geoff walking by before I
was about to dig into the festivities. Actually I think I'd grabbed some tickets from a
couple of supervisors, as well. Uh, one thing I wanted to talk about was, um, and I don't
know whether or not this is a particular time, uh, to bring it up, but ... what we send out
before we, urn ... uh, pull out, or ... um, god ... rezone a particular area, um, I think needs to
be changed. You know, one of the things I went to was seminar on plain language. Um,
through the elections process which can be, you know, very, um, electiony, for lack of a
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better word, um, and I think that, you know, it could speak to some of the things that we
do here as well. It's ... it's very confusing. Um, I was looking at it trying to explain it to
the person that was asking me questions, and I'm pretty sure that I, you know, fouled it
up even further! Um, so I don't know if this is a situation where, um, maybe we knock it
down to telecommunications committee or the communications com ... whatever! Um,
but I think it's something that needs to be cleaned up, because I think a lot of people are
...you know they receive those letters in the mail. They're not able to understand it, and
I think that would just be proactively, um, helping those type of situations where (both
talking)
Mims / Are you talking about people that live within a certain area and are getting a notice of a
potential rezoning?
Botchway/ Right. Correct. Correct.
Mims/ Okay.
Botchway/ Um, and I think that's ... even some of the complaints that come from ... and I think
would be, you know, proactively, um, you know ... sueded from coming up before us if
they ... were just kind of more aware, and again, it's ... I mean, and maybe I'm the only
person on the Council, but it's ... it's confusing to me! Uh, it still is.
Markus/ So what you're asking for is more common language that (both talking)
Botchway/ ...more common language, and even ... even the map itself is confusing. You know, I
mean, there's no, um, I think you know the map itself (mumbled) topography of
everything because it's important for that particular area, um, knowing the wetlands and
everything else, um, that's associated with it, but you know, from somebody who's just
receiving the notice and had no idea anything else was going on, I mean it's a foreign
language! It was a foreign language to me, and so please don't send me that notice if you
decide to, cause I wouldn't know what to do with it. (laughter) So, um, just something
different, and I think it...it would help, and I think it would alleviate some of the emails
that we get as well.
Throgmorton/ Well I could follow up on that by saying one thing. I ... I was invited, actually
Kingsley was too but I was invited by some Green Party members to, uh, go to Uptown
Bill's on August 24, last Sunday ... or Sunday a week ago to talk about the Riverfront
Crossings District and our form -based code and that kind of thing. Uh, so I went, and it
was a useful, fruitful conversation, uh, with them. Uh, but one of the things I noticed, uh,
I learned, is that first of all many of them, I think most of `em, didn't have a clue that the
form -based code had been adopted, didn't have any idea whatsoever how it would affect
them, were very worried about it, uh, and ... didn't know what ... didn't know much at all
about zoning and about what zones they ... their buildings were already in and hence
didn't know that there was any difference between the form -based code and current
zoning because they don't know either one of `em! So part of what I had a chance to
do ... I hope, uh, and...I hope I succeeded in this is explain in ordinary language (laughs)
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what the existing zoning code ... does down there and how the form -based code, uh, is
likely to change that, and you know ... and certain uncertainties that ... well, some
uncertainties associated with that. But the point that Kingsley makes is exactly right!
Mo ... I think the vast majority of people in our town don't have a clue what zoning's all
about, and how it influences their property, unless something's proposed for change.
And then, then they get worried.
Payne / And I don't think it's just in our town!
Throgmorton/ No, no (both talking)
Payne/ I think people just don't ... you don't (several talking) It doesn't matter until it affects you
(laughs)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I mean, just look at a zoning map. I mean who in god's earth really looks at
zoning maps regularly, day in and day out.
Mims/ Okay. Let me try to get us back here (laughter and several talking) Okay! All right,
Council time. Michelle?
Payne/ I don't have anything.
Mims/ Okay. Rick?
Dobyns/ No.
Dickens/ I'll save it for later.
Meeting Schedule:
Mims/ Okay. Uh, meeting schedule? We got plenty of `em coming up! Pending work session
topics. IP5. We're gettin' that narrowed down a bit.
Pending Work Session Topics:
Payne/ We're not going to have anything to do after a while!
Mims/ Yeah, right! (laughter) Right. Um, upcoming community events, Council invitations.
Upcoming Community Events / Council Invitations:
Botchway/ Um, the, uh, Soul Fest is coming up. I don't remember the date.
Dickens/ That's what I was going to talk about (several talking)
Botchway/ Oh, sorry! (several talking and laughing) You remember it, so go ahead!
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Mims/ (mumbled) ... save it for the formal. Um, if people haven't, uh, responded and are
interested the ICAD annual meeting is the 11th. Make sure you let Marian know if you
haven't RSVP'd and are interested in going. Um, I was going to go but I've got a
conflict that came up so I can't make it. Anything else?
Throgmorton/ If I could say one thing, Susan. The same weekend as the Soul Fest is, uh, a
Creative Colleges Conference that's being organized by the Urban Planning...
Markus/ Right!
Throgmorton/ ... School o ... over here (several talking) Uh, it's going to be held in the hotel
Vetro.
Mims/ Okay! All right. We got through it! We will adjourn. See everybody back at 7:00!
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