HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015-03-23 TranscriptionMarch 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Botchway, Dickens, Dobyns, Hayek, Mims, Payne, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Markus, Ralston, Andrew, Davidson, Dilkes, Moran, Karr, O'Brien,
Havel, Yapp, Ford, Clow, Bockenstedt, Knoche, Morris
Others Present: McCarthy (UISG)
Questions from Council re: Agenda Items:
Hayek/ Why don't we get started with our, uh, March 23, 2015, work session. Welcome,
everyone, to City Hall! Start up with, uh, the first bullet point, which is questions
regarding agenda items. Any questions?
ITEM 9. AMEND URBAN RENEWAL PLAN — APPROVING AMENDMENT NO. 13 TO
THE CITY -UNIVERSITY PROJECT 1 URBAN RENEWAL PLAN TO MODIFY
PROPOSED URBAN RENEWAL PROJECT.
ITEM 10. HOTEL DEVELOPMENT - RESOLUTION APPROVING AN AGREEMENT
FOR PRIVATE REDEVELOPMENT BY AND BETWEEN THE CITY OF IOWA
CITY, IOWA, AND IOWA CITY HOTEL ASSOCIATES, L.L.C.
ITEM 11. CHANGE HOTEL TAX FUNDING FORMULA - RESOLUTION
RESCINDING RESOLUTION 05-113 AND ESTABLISHING A NEW POLICY
FOR USE OF FUNDS DERIVED FROM HOTEL -MOTEL TAX.
Dobyns/ Would City staff be able to walk us through... Items 9 through 12 ... um, they're all sort
of inter -related, and how they relate and... etc., etc. Jeff?
Davidson/ Yeah, as noted, they are all related. Um, Item 9 is an urban renewal area amendment.
When we ... after the TIF reform in the State Legislature from a couple of years ago, one
of the things we have to do is declare individual projects with a specific dollar amount.
And we always try and build in a little... cushion when we do that because ultimately you
approve the project up to a certain dollar amount specifically. Um, we just aimed a little
low when we did that originally with the ... the project that is now the Hilton Garden Inn.
At the time we put the project in the urban renewal... amended it into the urban renewal
area amendment, I believe it was amendment 12, wasn't it? Um, we, uh, we're dealing
with a ... the flag was a Holiday Inn. That was, at the ... well, negotiated between the
development team, the City, and the University, that flag was upgraded to the Hilton
Garden Inn, and when that happened, the total project cost went up and the, uh, the TIF
amount, the financial assistance amount, went up to where it exceeded what we had
amended into the plan. So this is just an amendment to put it at the amount, which in the
following item you will be asked to approve. And that's the development agreemen...
agreement for the Hilton Garden Inn hotel and we'll just walk through the staff report
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 2
that Michelle and... and Susan and the Mayor have seen already at the Economic
Development Committee.
Markus/ Jeff, why don't you explain the University's role in the flag designation of the hotel.
Davidson/ Yeah, the flag designation of the hotel was really important. They see a real
significant relationship between the Music School, the Art Museum, and this hotel, and in
fact, the Art Museum, it's anticipated will be designed not including some features that
will be included in the hotel, which otherwise would have been included
like... conference facilities, um, some of the, um, food service -type facilities, because
they intend ... and there may even be a direct physical connection... between the two ... the
two buildings. The University wanted a... a higher quality hotel flag. That was
negotiated with the developer. And they are very happy now... about that! The third item
then, Item 11, is the, um ... uh, the ... part of the financial arrangement, which in Item 10
you will be ... you will see presented to you, and it involves use of the hotel/motel tax.
That... the... the use of that tax is set by you, uh, in terms of how it is distributed. Right
now among, uh, the Park system, the Police Department, and the Convention and Visitors
Bur ... Bureau. What we are proposing to do is use a portion of it on a short-term basis for
the financing of the hotel project. Ultimately that will be up to you to approve that, and
that's what'll ... Item 11 is. So they're all three part of the same, uh, package for the
Hilton Garden Inn hotel.
Throgmorton/ I'd like to follow up, Jeff, um ... could you and Eleanor please explain, uh, clearly
who the developer is, uh, because you know there's this, uh, suit and ... claims about
Kinseth Hospitality and Bruce Kinseth and (mumbled) etc. So...
Dilkes/ We have a signed agreement, and the four managers of that LLC, Iowa City Hotel
Associates LLC, are ... and I was just going to pull it up here so I didn't misstate anything.
I believe it's Mike Hodge, Kevin Digman, uh...
Davidson/ John Hieronymus.
Dilkes/ John Hieronymus and (both talking)
Davidson/ Kinseths.
Dilkes/ ...and Bruce Kinseth, I mean, and Kinseth. No, Bruce.
Davidson/ I think Bruce Kinseth.
Dilkes/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ So the...
Dilkes/ They've all signed the agreement.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 3
Throgmorton/ So the suits, you know, we got that letter, what ... four weeks ago or something like
that, uh, concerning the suit against ... I guess Kinseth Hospitality. That's what I'm
remembering anyhow. Uh, but I ... the ... the other letter we got from, uh... Kirsten Fry in
the late handout I think, uh, today...
Dilkes/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ ...uh, says it's not really against Kinseth and, or not really against the ... the
developer of this particular, uh... uh, hotel on Clinton Street. Can you ... can you clarify
that distinction, um...?
Dilkes/ Well I think that's accurate. It's a different, um ... it's a different entity. Iowa City Hotel
Associates, LLC is a different entity. But more importantly, what we asked them to do is
there's a representation in the developer's agreement that says ... uh, pending law ... there
are no ... something to the effect of there are no pending lawsuits that would affect the
viability of the developer, um, and so we ask for that additional explanation. Um, and
one of the things we asked her to do was identify who were the current managers of the
LLC.
Throgmorton/ Okay. That helps. Thank you! Uh, I ... I'd like to ask another question, which
maybe could be directed also to the Members of the Economic Development Committee.
So ... I, this looks to me like a really good project in a great location. In fact, it's such a
great location, that it...it puzzles me why financial assistance would be needed, uh, to
encourage ... a hotel to locate there. It seems ideal for a hotel. So why in a competitive
market would financial assistance be required?
Markus/ Jeff, Tom Jackson just joined us as well.
Davidson/ Yeah, we do have Tom Jackson from the National Development Council here, uh,
who certainly can explain the nuances, uh, better than I can. In general I will tell you that
that was also a question of ours, Jim. Um, it does seem to be ... we feel according to the
Riverfront Crossings Master Plan it is an ideal location for a facility that would, uh, serve
not only Riverfront Crossings but, uh, the larger downtown area, provide more of a, uh...
um, order of magnitude for conventions, uh, in downtown, uh, Iowa City. Um, haven't
really had any significant increase in the number of hotel rooms downtown since the, uh,
Sheraton was built in the late 70s. The Vetro was added, but that's 36 or 40 rooms, um,
not a significant number. This is ... the proposed hotel is 144 rooms, I believe, 144, 145.
Um, the... what... what... what Tom Jackson from NDC has been able to explain to us is
that with hotels there are an enhanced risk with a hotel, uh, and ... and face it, we've seen
this first-hand with Cedar Rapids owning the Double Tree hotel in downtown Cedar
Rapids, with Coralville owning the Marriott in Coralville. Because of the risk associated
with, uh, downtown hotels, uh, the ... it is ... it is not uncommon at all for the private sector
to be involved. Now frankly we're delighted that we're not being asked to be the owner
of this hotel, just to participate in the financial assistance for it. But Tom's ... if you read
the NDC report, and ... and I think I touched on it in the staff report as well, uh, it's
because of those enhanced risk factors that we do feel that the higher percentage of, uh,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 4
public financing is not inappropriate, and bringing in, you know, we've got kind of a
blended formula which I'll go through at the City Council meeting, but we're bringing in
three different, um ... uh, three different sources of funding, in order to ... to keep that
rebate period down. Our goal is, of course, to get the ... the property taxes released to all
three public entities as soon as possible, and we feel like we've got a good formula, uh,
for doing that. But it's ... it's basically, Jim, because of the enhanced risk factors
associated with a hotel. On any given night, unlike an apartment or a commercial space
where you've got a... a five-year lease, or in the case of a residence a year lease. With a
hotel on any given night ... any particular square footage of that may not be generating
revenue, and that's... that's ... in ... in the simplest form, the ... the reason for the increased
risk.
Throgmorton/ Okay. Thanks!
Hayek/ Aren't you getting a... a... a more comprehensive facility, as well, out of this? You
know, in terms of scope, size, and quality?
Davidson/ Yeah, as I explained earlier, it's an enhanced flag from what we originally started
with. And that ... and that was critical, Matt, for bringing the University on board and
supporting the project.
Hayek/ And ... and we're approaching this with ... with a rebate approach, meaning that...
Davidson/ It's all rebate!
Hayek/ ...the risk is not on the City.
Davidson/ No ... no upfront money, that's correct.
Throgmorton/ So .... call ... call me naive, because I am in many, many ways, but ... (clears throat)
sometimes I think competitive markets actually work well. So ... in ... in this instance
(clears throat) there's an ideal location... that could be made available to any potential
hotel developer, and... successful hotels, it would seems... seem to me would want to
locate there, and if they ... if there's more than one, then there'd be competition between
them, uh, and the best hotel would, uh, be chosen as the ... the one to build there.
So ... (clears throat) why ... why in this instance do we need to set aside the way
competitive markets are supposed to work? That's the (both talking)
Davidson/ Well you're absolutely right, Jim, and in its purest form, when we get involved, you
know, that ... that tampers with the ... the free market, so to speak. You know, I ... I would
point out that every downtown hotel that we have, including the Sheraton twice, have
received financial assistance from the City. When the ... when the Sheraton was aris...
originally built, it was an urban renewal parcel and so the City was involved in ... in a
financial deal to put that together. Obviously we closed the street so it was a sale of
public property to that hotel. Uh, the hotel Vetro, uh, was ... was part of a TIF project for
that overall building, and then in 2000, we put together the ... was it 2000, Wendy, 2010,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 5
yeah, 2010 we put together the deal to renovate the Sheraton, where there was also City
assistance. It was pretty minor, but there was City assistance involved in that. So, there
is a long-standing tradition, Jim, in ... in hotels requiring financial assistance, uh, and...
and as I said, it's not uncommon for them actually to be in public ownership.
Dickens/ How many years did that lot sit empty? Ten? Fifteen years? I mean, it's been
basically empty for (both talking)
Davidson/ It's been empty, I mean the Goodyear store was there if you go back far enough but
it's been at least 10 or 15 years. Yeah.
Dickens/ So there ... there was opportunities to build on it.
Mims/ Well and I think ... I mean when you look at like Cedar Rapids, I mean, they own that
downtown hotel. That's been renovated a couple times. It went into bankruptcy, um... I
think to simply think that because it's a good location, that it's automatically an
incredibly profitable business... doesn't, the numbers don't make it that way, I mean, they
have a huge, huge investment and ... and risk, and so ... I think, again, I think to me that is
one of the reasons we're paying the money to NDC is because we're not the experts on
those things. Tom Jackson is. He can bring other people into that analysis if he needs to,
to give us some objective numbers.
Davidson/ Yeah, and one of the things that I know is in Tom's report and ... and certainly we can
bring Tom up. He's happy to come forward if you want more details, but he has stated
that the...the amount of conventional financing that the hotel developer has tried to get is
...in fact he was even impressed with how much, as I recall the terms of the conv...
conventional financing that they could get, he was very impressed with their ability to get
that, uh, and ... and obviously felt that ... you know, we don't bring a project to you unless
N ... NDC feels that our involvement is appropriate.
Payne/ And ... this isn't the first hotel that ... tried to go in that, on that corner, and its ... but it's the
first one that's been successful in getting this far! So I think that shows that it's ... it's not
really as competitive as you might think it is.
Mims/ I think the other thing to remember is ... and correct me if I'm wrong, Jeff, the hotel does
not own the building. Is that ... the ... (both talking)
Davidson/ No, no, there's a ... (both talking)
Mims/ ...they're going to come in and manage it.
Davidson/ Yeah, right. That's correct!
Mims/ So ... so, you know, people say, oh well my gosh if you're going to put up a Hilton,
they've got plenty of money to build it. Hilton's not building this thing!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 6
Davidson/ No, there'll be a local ownership.
Mims/ Right. So, you've got other people who are owning it and taking this risk. They're
contracting with that hotelier name to use that name and come in and manage it.
Davidson/ Right, it's kind of a franchise type arrangement.
Mims/ Tom, did you want to come forward and add to the conversation?
Jackson/ (away from mic, unable to hear) ...
Mims/ Is there? Okay!
Jackson/ (away from mic, unable to hear) I think Jeff said it well. A ... again, remind people, the
marketplace has answered on the issue of downtown hotels. Um, it doesn't build very
many, um, so across the country where NDC works, uh, we use a variety of tools, but TIF
is certainly the most common, uh, that we use to help structure financing when bringing a
hotel downtown is desired. Um, for a number of years, there for about eight years, we
had new market tax credits. So if you look at Dubuque, Mason City, other cities around
the state here; Newark, New Jersey; uh, Gainesville, Florida; uh, Cleveland — we've been
involved in new markets, hotel deals in all of those communities. Um, that was a great
gap filler on what you couldn't attract through debt, which is your lowest cost of funds.
Whatever you can get, uh, out of the bank, but because of the risk in hotels, as Jeff said,
hotels don't go to the same ... urn, loan to value on, uh, hotels that they do typically for
apartment buildings, and this, uh, economy here, this local marketplace, they'll go to 80%
financing for apartment buildings. We see them going to 75, 80% on, uh, mixed-use
buildings. Hotels much more typically down, anywhere from 55 to 65%, uh, on bank
financing. After that comes equity, but equity will only be invested to the extent that they
feel they're getting a good market return. Otherwise they sit out. Or ... more common,
and you see this around the state, um, they go to the greenfields. So, where land is
cheaper, um, making folks drive in from the, uh, the perimeter hotels, that's where you
see the marketplace adding hotels without assistance.
Throgmorton/ So, Tom (clears throat) uh, if I could follow up just briefly about that. (clears
throat) I totally recognize that you know a lot more about the financing of this than I do,
so ... that ... that's really clear. (clears throat) But there are certain contextual features
about this project here at this time that are different from what they were say 10 years
ago. I think you would recognize this a...at...at least as well as I do.
Jackson/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ Like Terry said, that place has sat empty for 15 years. That's true.
Jackson/ Right..
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 7
Throgmorton/ But that was before the University decided to build the music center and the new
Voxman there. It was before the University announced that it was going to build a
Museum of Art right next to it.
Jackson/ Right.
Throgmorton/ And, it was before, uh, a large-scale trend around the country toward moving back
toward the core of the city had, uh, begun to take place. So those contextual features are
all quite different now than what they were 10 years ago and would seem to me the hotels
would be recognizing that also. So...
Mims/ But it's not just the hotels. It's the financing they can get, Jim!
Jackson/ And again, Council Member, I ... I'll ... I'm personally in charge of running a training for
our company around the country, and we buy blocks of rooms in the dozens at a time for
the training sites. We still can't force our students to take the in ... building where the
training's actually taking place, rooms half the time because they're on, uh, hotels.com
and Expedia and all the other sites, looking for the best deal they can get, and if they can,
uh, get a, you know, light rail or a cab or their own car and save 50 bucks a night, uh, and
be out at the edge, then they're gonna do that a lot of the time. Um ... Cleveland, I
mentioned that, uh, was a project that we brought a lot of different layers of financing,
uh, in on brownfields, remediation grants from the federal government, uh, EB -5, uh,
immigration, uh, investment program, uh, new market tax credits — all of them were
layered in on a new mixed -office and hotel tower in downtown Cleveland. In the end, the
tower tenant was a large, uh, accounting firm, national accounting firm, but they
wouldn't guarantee that their clients coming in would...
Mims/ Stay in the hotel!
Jackson/ ...stay in the hotel! So they weren't willing to put their guarantee behind the rooms,
which... brought down the amount of...bank lending that was available to the project, the
amount of equity that was attracted, and everybody had to get involved in filling the gaps
as, uh, creatively as we could. So, I agree. I think there's tendencies that are driving
everybody that way. When I mentioned new markets, uh, earlier, uh, the Blackstone
Hotel in, uh, Chicago, uh, was an example of a new market's program that met the
program eligibility and that's a program that drives significant bank equity primarily into
low and moderate -income communities. When it built an upscale hotel on the edge of
one of the most thriving economies in the country, that drew criticism that the program
was really meant for other types of projects, and so across the country new markets,
which paid up to 39% in tax credit gap filling into projects like that is not used on hotels
today. Uh, the Iowa Business Growth, uh, Council, I imagine, is not putting any of their
remaining, uh... uh, new market ... or allocation into hotels, but they certainly did there for
a while. And if that kind of allocation had been available here in Iowa City, there
wouldn't have been a need for TIF support. But there certainly was some need for public
gap financing, and that what ... that's what we've tried to structure fairly, uh, with this
recommendation.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 8
Hayek/ You know ... I ... I don't know if ... if your concern, Jim, is with ... with any amount of
subsidy for a project like this, or the amount of it. If it's the latter, maybe you could hear
a little bit about how we got to 8.8, you know ... what was the ask, what was the analysis,
you know...
Jackson/ (both talking) Again, every time we look at a gap, the definition of a gap just in its
most simple form for, uh... NDC, and in our relationship with the City, is that ... you
maximize the private financing before you go to the public financing. And in this case,
that meant as much bank debt as they could attract, based on the independent business
study, uh, market study that was done for the hotel. Um, and the terms that the bank was
providing. A reasonable market return on the private equity, recognizing that as Jeff said
before, um, economic downturns, bad weather, um, good athletic seasons versus bad
athletic seasons, all of those things have an impact on hotel occupancy that you don't see,
uh, as much volatility in most other industry. Um, restaurants, but they're smaller
investments. Um, certainly go through some similar swings. Um, so once we look at
what they could do to maximize the private debt, the private equity, really what's left
over is a question — is there public support to bring public gap filling to get the project
done? If there's not, at this point the market has said the project won't get built. Um,
nobody's willing to take, uh, on the private equity side, 2, 3, 4% return on a risky project.
They can put their money in tax exempt bonds, um... safe investments and get that kind
of return. If you're bringing them into something more risky, then we look at a ... a higher
IRR, uh, internal rate of return.
Markus/ Tom, while you're up there, the obvious question is, well, what about the ... the place
right around the corner, CA Ventures is the recommended preferred developer for the
Court/Linn site. They're not asking for incentives.
Jackson/ Right.
Markus/ And they're doing a... a major project there. I know you know the answer cause we've
had these discussions (both talking)
Jackson/ I think there's going to continue to be an evolution in those negotiations. I know while
this project was being negotiated, um, you know, at first there was residential... on the
upper floors. The residential was driving more gap, um, than just the hotel by itself. So
we actually recommended getting rid of the, uh, penthouse. Uh.. .
Hayek/ On ... on this site? On the Clinton...
Jackson/ On this one, on this project that we're looking at here, uh, the exterior, uh,
improvements to the project, um, the setbacks to meet zoning, the better materials on the
outside... successfully added, um, millions more to the project. Um, so I think with CA,
um, or Core, either way, um, there's the beginning of a negotiation. Hopefully it's all
going to happen that the fat on the student housing side will cover the hotel side without
any subsidy on the hotel side. Um, and I imagine they'll be pushing back, uh, on some of
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 9
those exterior design, uh, issues, um, to make sure that they can manage their budget, but
uh...
Markus/ I ... I think we left enough fat on there so that they won't have to be pushing back at all.
Jackson/ Right. So, but hopefully the ... I think they'll get there too, and I know you're going to
be negotiating hard to keep `em there. Uh, that's the next discussion, but ... uh, I think
(both talking)
Markus/ I think I'm making eye contact with CA Ventures while I'm sitting (laughter)
Jackson/ I think the other issue as we've talked about there is the, urn ... they have a pool of
investors that feel that the corporate experience and um, balance sheet of that particular
development, or developer, is strong enough that they're willing to ... put money in it less
return because they know there's less risk. Um, we don't have a team that's quite that
experienced on this side. So...
Botchway/ One other question that I have is that, I mean, basically I think Susan, Jeff — you all
brought up failed models of it working ... not working in Cedar Rapids and other areas.
So why should we support this project?
Jackson/ I think they're saying in those examples the cities actually moved in to meet their goals
for revitalizing downtown and took an ownership stake, uh, in the hotels, unless I'm
mistaken (both talking)
Markus/ No, that's correct.
Botchway/ Okay.
Jackson/ So here you're not being asked to do that. You've got a rebate only, uh, TIF
arrangement (both talking)
Botchway/ Okay.
Jackson/ So you still have the policy issue of whether this advances a, uh, a downtown
development goal. Money aside.
Markus/ I think the ... I think the point is, we're not taking a position as risky as, uh, others have
taken in terms of involving themselves in private -sector ventures, uh, to that extent. So...
Hayek/ Thanks, Tom!
Jackson/ We good? (several responding) Thanks!
ITEM 3b(6) Public Art Committee — February 5
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 10
Payne/ I have a question on 3b(6), which is the Public Art Advisory Committee
recommendation. So that is part of the Consent Calendar. When we are approving the
Consent Calendar, does that mean that we are approving the recommendation of the
Public Art Advisory Committee?
Karr/ No, it does not. The cover sheet indicates separate action is necessary. You're just
accepting the minutes with the recommendation.
Payne/ Okay. Thank you. I didn't notice that X at the bottom! Thank you.
Karr/ Uh huh.
Hayek/ Thanks, Marian! Other agenda questions?
ITEM 13. FOOD TRUCK VENDING - ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 9, ENTITLED
"MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC," CHAPTER 4, ENTITLED "PARKING
REGULATIONS," TO ESTABLISH PROVISIONS FOR FOOD TRUCK
VENDING ON CITY STREETS. (FIRST CONSIDERATION)
Botchway/ Last ... Item 13 ... um, since it's not necessarily in the downtown area, am I talking to
you?
Andrew/ Yeah!
Botchway/ Since it's not necessarily in downtown area, is reason ... any reason why we still,
um ... decided to ... you know, make it just between 7:00 and 9:00, no reason for it to go
any further in the night?
Andrew/ Some of the concerns was with, um, spill -out from customers and the lines generated,
and some of the, uh, nuances that could be generated by congregating that many people
late at night. That was the, uh, rationale behind it. We expect that this will evolve some
as we test it out and the, um, hours of operation are something we could look at in the
future, but, uh, given some of the early concerns and experiences of other cities, we
thought this was a good place to start.
McCarthy/ Actually, Simon, to follow up on that.
Andrew/ Sure!
McCarthy/ Is there some sort of timeline on when the pilot will be revisited or...
Andrew/ No, it'd be an on-going evaluation, just like any of our ... our programs similar to this.
Um, I wouldn't describe this as a pilot necessarily. That we did last year (both talking) is
more of a test but, um, without seeing anything, um, particularly detrimental in this, uh,
program, we wouldn't necessarily plan to change it, but, um, certainly given that it's
something new to us, we would evaluate it ongoing to see if we had gotten it right.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 11
McCarthy. Sure. Okay, thanks.
Markus/ A lot of times I think we go into ordinances thinking that they're the end-all, and I think
the point Simon is making is ... we can adjust ordinances by coming to a meeting, uh,
having Council review it and update those based on the ... the changing circumstances that
we observe (mumbled)
Payne/ It's a living document. (laughs)
Markus/ There is a tendency though for people to just...'that's it, that's the final word on it.'
None of these are ever really the final word.
ITEM 12. RELOCATION APPROVAL LETTER — MOTION FOR APPROPRIATE
DIRECTION FOR STAFF TO RESPOND TO A REQUEST FROM THE CITY
OF CORALVILLE FOR A LETTER INDICATING NO OBJECTION TO THE
EXPANSION OF LEEPFROG TECHNOLOGIES IN CORALVILLE.
Hayek/ Uh, Tom, Item 12 is the relocation issue, and uh, it's my understanding that those ... that
the request from staff is that we ... we'll actually defer that. Do you want to have that
conversation during the work session or ... open....
Markus/ Yeah, that would probably be fine (mumbled)
Hayek/ Okay.
Markus/ There's a request, uh, for Leepfrog to move to, um... Coralville, and um, I've asked for
a... a number of pieces of information to be able to determine, um, a recommendation for
the City Council to consider. I have not received that information, uh, at this point to be
able to formulate a recommendation one way or the other for the City Council to
determine. It's ... it, um ... it creates a bit of a pressure point though, I would say, for the
City Council. And the pressure point is this — you're going to have a business that's
coming back to you who we certainly don't wish to harm in their growth. Um, at the
same time, we don't wish to see that business relocated from our jurisdiction. So... we
got into a bit of this, uh, back in the Von Maur days and as a result of that legislation was
changed that referred to, uh, anti -piracy types of activities. And so ... um ... following that
conversation, we entered into conversations with both North Liberty and Coralville to
create a document where we would be communicating these types of, uh, concerns about
business relocations within our region, and the use of incentives to accomplish that. Uh,
we have as a community, as you know, have adopted that resolution, uh, called the
`Communication Protocol' uh, for short, but it is a document that would have
communicated these things all along. So that we didn't get to the point where you had to
make a decision at the, kind of the ... crucial hour, and feel the pressure of harming a
business. My contention is that, um ... we could have been having that conversation, that
we could have been having... receiving that information, but there was a period of silence
that preceded the point to which we are currently at. And so ... I need some additional
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 12
information to know factually what has been done, what kind of incentives are being
offered, um, and exactly whether we could have done something ourselves. I have to tell
you that I'm not inclined to give up on any business, uh, moving out of our jurisdiction.
Having said that, we did not stand in the way of Connect Five, and that's why I put that
information in your packet. Um, Connect 5 though was not seeking tax increment
financing, which we understand to be the case with Leepfrog. So, this is a different
circumstance. But again I point out that the reason that we considered the previous one
is, they did not seek ... TIF assistance in contravention to the piracy provisions of the TIF
law. They were seeking, uh, funding for ... uh, advanced jobs, uh, high ... high, uh, high
degree jobs that were going to be created. They had looked around Iowa City; I think
they communicated quite well with us and made a decision that that was a better location
for them. Ultimately decided that. So there's a distinction in this particular request, as
compared to Connect Five, and I had intended to have more information for you. I just
received an email from Coralville this afternoon. Um, it does ... it's not complete, uh,
because, um, the individual that sent it does not have all the information, and they're
referring that request to another agency to help provide some of that information. So... at
this point I would suggest that we defer action on it until the following, uh, Council
meeting or... once the information becomes available in time for us to prepare a
recommendation. But I'm kind of warning you, cautioning you, that you could have a
very difficult decision facing you, um, because I'm certain that this Council does not
wish to harm any business in the region, but at some point I think you have to be very
clear about the message you're sending, um, if you were to yield in this particular case.
And whether that really gets the message across, that we're not here to be picked off or
have our businesses picked off. So, I know that sounds rather harsh, but ... uh, quite
frankly we cannot afford to lose our businesses, and it ... and I don't know that the region
can afford to incentivize the movement of business from one jurisdiction to another.
Hayek/ But for purp... for purposes of tonight... the... the recommendation that you would
otherwise be giving to us is based on an agreement that's called out in State code.
Markus/ Yes.
Hayek/ Uh, the information for which you don't yet have.
Markus/ That's correct. There, in fact there's two ... and Eleanor and I have had some
discussions about this. There's two particular provisions. Jeff, what's the name of
the ... the program for the high-profile (both talking)
Dilkes/ It's the `high-quality job's program.'
Markus/ `High quality job's program,' and there's a separate statutory reference, um, that deals
with our signing off on that, versus another statutory reference that deals with an
agreement, um, that's in the TIF law about a neighboring jurisdiction offering TIF to
move a communi... or to move a business.
Hayek/ Okay.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 13
Throgmorton/ Uh, Tom (clears throat) am... am I correct in understanding that Coralville has not
signed the Communications Protocol Agreement that ICAD recommended to us and that
we approved?
Markus/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Markus/ And ... and maybe if...if you'll indulge me I can give you a little bit of an update on that.
Hayek/ Make it fairly quick. We've still got a lot to get through.
Markus/ Okay. (laughter) So, apparently there's a little confusion in the communication on that.
Um, as you know, that discussion had been taking place for well over two years between
the three jurisdictions, and it kind of evolved to a point where it really became kind of a
communication document, rather than a hard-and-fast, uh, fair -play type of agreement
that you'll see in other places around the country. So we went through that whole
process, urn ... we had some communication ... challenges and at some point I think the
conversation ended, and quite frankly, I was to the point where I didn't think it would be
resurrected. Um, Tom Goedken, I believe, as the Chair of ICAD, and Mark Nolte, as the
Executive Director, wanted to resurrect it. They thought it was a good thing for our part
of the ... region, um, corridor. And so they resurrected it and I sent over the last document
that we had been working on, uh, which had been refined by all the, you know, the ... the
players in the agreement. It went to a full board meeting of ICAD. I spoke to the issue.
Um... Coralville was represented, um, the vote I think is recorded as being unanimous in
support. Um ... we then had an executive meeting of ICAD, which I serve on. Uh,
representative from Coralville was there. Um, I told the executive committee I would be
taking it to Council because both Tom and Mark indicated that they wanted to go to each
of our three jurisdictions and present it, which they did here. We approved it. Uh, it then
went to Coralville. I understand Coralville has basically indicated that they are not in
support of the agreement, nor would they enter into the agreement. So ... then when you
ratchet the time forward and you start to look at the Leepfrog issue, uh, you know, I think
one has a tendency to connect dots and ... and be concerned about, you know, whether that
document would have helped the process, uh, whether there was concerns about the
discussion with Leepfrog at the time, all things I really can't know, but certainly raise my
antenna, and so ... I'm not sure that we'll see the approval of the agreement. Uh, I would
hope that Tom and Mark continue to press and go forward. I would tell you that
Lib ... uh, North Liberty was not present at the major meeting of ICAD when this was
approved. Even though the agenda with the contract was sent to the representative, um, I
think he may have missed the meeting and ... and felt like he was out of the loop on that.
So ... I'm of the belief that you cannot force people into agreements. Um ... you can, if
you have the right leverage, but I don't think it gets you to the point of how the intent of
the agreement is supposed to work, unless it's entered into voluntarily.
Throgmorton/ Thanks!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 14
Hayek/ Any other agenda items?
ITEM 3d(2) REVISED COMPLETE STREETS POLICY — RESOLUTION
ADOPTING A COMPLETE STREETS POLICY FOR THE CITY OF IOWA
CITY AND RESCINDING RESOLUTION NO. 07-199
Throgmorton/ Could I say one quick thing about the `complete streets policy?' And I'll be very
brief, 3d(2).
Hayek/ Yeah!
Throgmorton/ The revised policy. I ... I just (clears throat) want to observe that it's my
understanding at least that the Blue Zones' report that they submitted back in July, July
3`d I think, uh, in our Information Packet of July 3`d, recommended that lower vehicle
speeds, narrower traffic lanes, on -street parking, and shade trees are components of good
street design. And yet I don't see that reflected in the ... the complete streets policy, so...
I ... I would hope at some point the staff will really, uh, take that ... those concerns into
account and maybe develop a, uh... um, a street design manual where standards are made
explicit for dif...different street types, designed for different speeds. This is a topic
we've addressed before in one way or another, but uh... I ... I just think there's more going
on than ... than is ... is addressed in the complete streets policy, as presented to us. So
anyhow, just a ... a view.
Payne/ I was actually glad that roundabouts weren't (laughter) specifically called out in there.
Throgmorton/ Me too! (laughter)
Hayek/ God, how those fell on disfavor I don't ... quite understand! (laughter) Okay, anything
else on that 3d(2), Jim?
Throgmorton/ No thanks!
Council Appointments:
Hayek/ Anything else on the agenda? Okay. Urn ... next item is Council appointments. We've
got P&Z and Telecomm.
Mims/ On P&Z, I'm going to recommend, uh, Michael Hensch and Max Parsons. Um ... this is 1
think a little bit of a departure of... of some of our past practice, but I think... with some
of the things getting bogged down, um, at P&Z and ... uh... the need for, I think, a variety
of opinions there, uh, to really represent the community, um, I'm in favor of those two.
Dickens/ I'd have to go along with that. I ... I attended a meeting Thursday night as a citizen
(laughs) I tried that! Uh, we were within 200 -feet of the, uh, new medical clinic they
were looking at up on north, uh, North Dubuque, or North Dodge Street and Dubuque
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 15
Road, and I was... almost shocked at how little got done. There was three things on the
agenda. Nothing... nobody would even second anything. I know they want to get it right,
but ... it was just, they spent a lot of time talking about groves of trees when it was
actually a line of trees that were planted along the road, what bushes they were going to
use, instead of actually looking at ... you know, the substantive, uh, zoning and planning,
and it, the meetings just went on for two and a half hours, for three subjects! We finally
left after the ... the, uh, North Dubu... uh, Dodge Street project was brought up and I guess
it went on again for another half hour or so after that. So it was a three-hour meeting that
accomplished very little and ... we have to do something to get ... when we're wondering
why things don't get through to the Council, there's such a lag time ... part of it is
Planning and Zoning, whether we need to step up and have ... better, uh... telling people
what their ... what their charge actually is, but it...it seemed like they were off on all
different individual tangents. So...
Throgmorton/ Well, it will surprise you to know that I disagree with, uh, the recommendation.
And I don't see any evidence whatsoever that the current Planning and Zoning
Commission Members are delaying anything. They have voted a couple times in ways
that our full Council has chosen not to agree with, and that's okay, such things happen.
Uh, but my impression is that the Commission has, um, taken its job very seriously, tried
very hard to consider, uh, the issues involved in proposed rezonings, especially... but also
of course with regard to plats and preliminary plats, uh, and, uh, and of, uh, the four
applicants, one is a person who's been on the Commission for three years now and added,
uh, a great deal to, uh, the Commission's ability to deliberate about, uh, the issues
confronting the Planning and Zoning Commission. So ... I don't ... I don't have the
objection to, uh... um, Max Parsons. It seems to me he probably is an appropriate, uh,
appointee, though I personally would support Erin Shane. I think she'd be a pretty good
appointee, but...
Mims/ We have a gender balance issue there.
Throgmorton/ I understand that. Uh, so uh... uh, but I think, uh, if...if we're not gonna ... just be
blunt. If we're not gonna reappoint John Thomas, we should be very clear about why he
is not being reappointed. He's been on the Commission for three years. He's done a
superb job as a Commissioner, and if, uh, you know ... we should (laughs) be clear about
why we're making a choice not to reappoint him.
Botchway/ My recommendation would be, uh, Michael Hensch and uh, John Thomas, and again
I guess I kind of echo some of Jim's comments in the sense that if we're having ... if we
are having these issues (mumbled) (noises in background) Commission, I mean, I'd ... I'd
hope that we would say something to them before penalizing or changing our past
practice, um, when it comes to Commission Members. Um, again I ... I, you know it's...
it's an awkward conversation to have because we have a practice but then we're changing
our practice, and I mean if it truly is for the fact that it's not coming before us, you know,
fast enough or whatever the case may be, I would at least want to have that discussion
with those Members at that particular time. If ... unless we have or haven't, I don't know.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 16
Payne/ I've actually had some phone calls from people about why can't Planning and Zoning
make a decision. So I think it's ... the public sees it also, on some issues. Um ... but I
think that the fact that we've had several meetings with Planning and Zoning, um...
which, when I was on Planning and Zoning, we never even did it. I didn't even know
that that was a rule, that if you, you know, if they didn't ... if we weren't going to agree
with them, to have the meeting. So ... and not ... not that agreeing with them has anything
to do with this, but I mean it's just one of those ... those things that ... it just seems like
they're a cog in the ... there's a cog in the wheel. Don't know if John is the cog in the
wheel and I'm not going to say that he necessarily is the cog in the wheel, but ... it seems
like it takes forever to get things through Planning and Zoning right now.
Hayek/ You know and I ... I ... I'd probably be saying this about any other so-called incumbent
before us, um ... I ... I think there's a level of dysfunction right now on ... on that
commission, um ... both internally and in terms of its interaction with City Hall, including
the ... the Council, and, uh, I mean, you can see it in the minutes! It ... it's ... it's
distressing! Um ... and ... uh... it's ... it's ... it's not something that I think advances the...
the City's interests, and the only thing I ... I can come up with to do is to try some new
blood, and I don't ... I've not met Max Parsons nor spoken to him. I've not met, uh, Mr.
Hensch nor spoken to him. Um ... uh, but I'm ... I'm ... I'm willing to give both a shot!
(several talking) ...Erin Shane had merits, as well, but we've got the ... the balance issue.
Botchway/ I guess my thought to that, Matt, is that we haven't had a conversation about the
dysfunctionality of Planning and Zoning, up until now, so (noises in background) if that's
the case, I'd rather have a disku... discussion on talking to them about their
dysfunctionality and working out the cog or whatever the situation. It just seems like
we'd be punishing the one particular person for the dysfunction that we're thinking about
for the entire Commission. I don't think that's fair. (noises in background) At all!
Throgmorton/ I ... I would agree. We've had no discussion whatsoever about the Planning and
Zoning Commission, uh, being dysfunctional. What we have experienced is two
instances where they have made recommendations to us which we as a full Council have
chosen not to go along with.
Mims/ I don't see that as the issue.
Payne/ And I ... I ... I mean, I didn't mean to bring ... that that was the issue. It's just ... I agree with
Matt. When reading their meeting minutes, they seem dysfunctional. I don't know who
is causing that but ... it, they seem dysfunctional.
Throgmorton/ We're constantly getting recommendations from them on the, you know, basically
7 to nothing votes, maybe 6 to 1, but typically unanimous votes.
Payne/ But ... but think (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...to proceed with whatever's being deliberated..
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 17
Payne/ Think of all the things that are in their meeting minutes, that haven't gotten to us! That...
it's like defer this, defer this, defer this! You know, why do they constantly defer things?
Throgmorton/ Uh... well, I have an answer to that but ... (laughs) go ahead!
Botchway/ I mean I guess I'm in disagreement so ... (mumbled) be Michael Hensch and John
Thomas, just... following past practice. But ... again, I'm just one.
Hayek/ Yeah, we ... but we don't exclusively follow that, I mean, there are certainly examples
where... where we have not. It is a... sort of a default tendency or... or something we have
typically done.
Botchway/ And again, I would ... I ... I think that's a good point. But ... this would be my first time
on Council where we've done that in conjunction with saying that the Commission, in
and of itself, is (mumbled) (noises in background) and then you know blaming that on a
particular person.
Hayek/ Well I don't know that it is blaming it on a particular person, but it's an opportunity to...
freshen the mix, to ... to ... to add new ... new people to it, uh...
Botchway/ I ... I just don't see how (noises in background, difficult to hear speaker) I don't know
him personally, but I don't see how he will see that, and I don't see how the public
perception of us doing that, in the face of, um, what Jim said, you know, two Council
votes, um, against the Planning and Zoning Commission, so to speak (noises in
background) I just think it's sending a bad message and setting a bad precedent (noises in
background)
Throgmorton/ In ... in the three and a half years that, um, I've been on the Council, uh, this is the
second time we have chosen not to reappoint somebody. The first time, well ... I won't
name the woman's name, but a person to the Human Rights Commission. At that time I
didn't understand why that person wasn't being reappointed. But it's very, very rare for
us not to reappoint somebody who has built up three years of experience on a
commission that's as important as the Planning and Zoning Commission is. So I think if
we're not going to reappoint that person, we should be clear about why that person does
not deserve to be reappointed when he's applied for reappointment.
Dobyns/ Well I would agree with the clarity. Um, my major concern after discussing with the
three Members of the Planning and Zoning was that they didn't articulate, um, their view.
The last two, um, votes where the Council has disagreed with Planning and Zoning, I've
been on both sides. So I don't think I have any concerns... any other direction. Mine was
that they frankly did not articulate their views. So I think I need ... it's incumbent upon
me to articulate my view on why I would agree with the, uh, recommendation that, uh,
these two gentlemen go onto Planning and Zoning. I think it is extremely necessary to
articulate your views, and I read the minutes and I saw next to nothing, if nothing, from
several Members of Planning and Zoning. I called them and ... to verify if what I didn't
read was true, and it was. And I told them I had some major, you know, concerns with
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 18
that! I think there can be a variety of, um, reasons why people don't articulate their
views. And I think that's being labeled as dysfunctionality, um... so I think things do
need to change. The reality is that these, um ... people are, um, you know, Paula and John
are the people who are coming up, and for the other people I probably feel similarly. But
I think I'm going to vote with the, um ... uh, with the recommendation, um, you know
because of the issues that they did not articulate their views and I think that's grievous.
Hayek/ All right well there's... looks like four or five. Obviously have a vote this evening.
Mims/ And there was one ... on....
Hayek/ And then Telecomm. I think there's only one applicant (several talking) Any concerns
about Mr ... (several talking) Okay. Does anybody know how to pronounce his last
name? Okay. John K? Okay. I'll try to spell that for myself phonetically! (laughter)
Okay, so now it's 10 of 6. Uh... we're runnin' behind, but let's jump into the Gateway.
See what we can do!
Gateway Proiect Update:
Knoche/ Uh, good evening, uh, Ron Knoche, Director of Public Works. Uh, tonight, uh, well
actually in your... in your March 12th, uh, packet there was a memo from myself and this
presentation that you'll be seeing. So was able to get that out to ya so you'd have a
chance to take a look at it and come up with some questions. Um, tonight with us we
have, uh, from City staff we have Melissa Clow and Jason Havel, uh, from the
Engineering Division, and uh, from HNTB we have Chris Hansel, uh, Marc Whitmore,
Mark Pierson, and from Stanley Consultants we have, uh, Jeff Hillegonds. So I'm going
to turn things over to Chris. He can get things started!
Hansel/ Thank you, Ron.
Hayek/ Welcome, Chris!
Hansel/ Hi, uh, as Ron mentioned my name's Chris Hansel. I'm a landscape architect with
HNTB, and uh, we want to talk a little bit today about ... just kind of give you an update
on the aesthetics of the project. Um, you're all aware, you know, we've been working
through the alignment of the roadway, um, up Dubuque Street, as well as the bridge
design along Park Road. Um, one of the things that we're doing now is ... is really
progressing into the look and feel of the project, and so ... just to kind of frame the context
of where we are in the project, um, we are in the process of ... of, uh, producing 60%
plans, so 60% design completion. We're hoping to get that done sometime in mid-May.
Um, with the hope that we have final plans sometime this fall, and then, uh, a letting
anticipated for January of 2016. So, just kind of frame that discussion of where we're at
and so some of the things that we'll show you today are just, um, some explorations that
we're doing. Uh, we're advancing the ... the design now and so we certainly appreciate
any ... any feedback that ... that you all have as we ... as we continue to advance. Um, and
so you know what we call aesthetics. It's essentially the look and feel of the project. It
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 19
could be landscaping. It could be, uh, some of the design components and ... and what do
they look like, the finishes, the textures, that sort of thing. Um, one of the other things
that we want to talk a little bit about are what are those people spaces. Urn ... related to
the corridor. I know there was a lot of interest, uh, from the community, as well as the
Council, in trying to integrate opportunities for some of those opportunities, whether it
be, um, an overlook or some other types of amenities in the corridor and so we'll give
you an update as to what we're looking at for some of those options, as well. Um, and...
and, uh, through various points in this presentation you'll see sort of a ... a mapped view,
um, and we'll ... we'll sort of zoom in on certain areas, and just to give you kind of
orientation to context, north is to the left, uh, Dubuque and Foster intersection there on
the left-hand side of the ... of the map. Um, you'll see Park Road sort of that, urn ... uh, the
corridor there on the ... on the right side. Um, you can see the new Hancher, um, acid then
you'll see sort in the middle of the Dubuque Street corridor, Mayflower as well. Um,
and ... and so really from a landscape design perspective, we've been coordinating with
our technical advisory committee. Um, Project Green's been heavily involved in ... in
providing some great feedback, as well as Parks and Rec, and so, um, they've... they've
been able to help us shape it from a landscape design perspective. Um, what our overall
concept and ... and goals are, and those as listed here are, uh, you know, to emphasize the
traffic calming; um, preserving, uh, significant existing trees wherever possible in the
corridor. There are some ... some good specimens in there that we want to try to maintain
if possible. Um, to help buffer undesirable views. So, uh, areas where we have surface
parking, things like that, um, to use landscaping to help direct views to the more
attractive use of the corridor. Um... and one of the things that we've heard, uh, from day
one is really we want ... we want to have something, uh, landscape concept that has color,
texture, and purpose, um, but also is something that's low maintenance. We don't want
this to be a burden on Parks and Rec, and... and uh, so we've been working through, um,
some of those opportunities to ... as we've been defining, urn ... uh, the uh, the design.
And so, you know, for instance a .... the concept that ... really one of the biggest
opportunities that we had is ... is really, um, this sort of widened median area. There...
there is a median today, um, and there is some landscaping within that median, but we
feel that this is a great opportunity to really kind of showcase the corridor and provide a
...a good aesthetic treatment there. And so what you'll see is a cross-section, in this case
for example it's just north of Mayflower, where we have, uh, a median width that ... that
allows us to have a little bit more flexibility from a design perspective. Um, and ... and
the general concept of that median that we have today is that, um, both north and south-
bound lanes of Dubuque Street would be curbed on that median. Today ... today it's just a
shoulder. Um, that curb helps define the roadway. It helps, um, you know, deter
practices such as parking in the median, um, and that sort of thing, and so um, that was
very important to keep that, uh, in mind, but we also want to encourage drainage into the
median, and so you'll see that it actually drains towards the center, um, and uh, and...
would uh, traverse through, uh, the landscape and then be collected in an area inlet within
that median. Um, this give us, um, a great opportunity to help kind of treat some of the
storm water, um, and help guide it to ... to its inlet. You'll see that one of the things that
we're exploring now is how can we use the earth work and... and grading, create some
mounding and berming within the median to ... to create some additional, uh, visual
interests, and then maybe that's a perfect setting to put some additional landscaping
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 20
plantings, such as, uh, shown here in this ... this concept section here. Um, and so we're
exploring that with our design team and ... and just trying to sort of refine that concept,
and again, this would take place where that median is wide enough to handle, um,
landscaping (coughing, unable to hear speaker) diminish, uh, sight lines for pedestrian
crossings and that sort of thing.
Throgmorton/ Could I... could I follow up on that, um...
Hansel/ Yes, sir!
Throgmorton/ I just want to make sure I'm clear. With regard to the larger parts of the median,
uh, looks like there are two segments that are especially large...
Hansel/ Correct.
Throgmorton/ ... are ... are you planning on planting trees there or no trees or what?
Hansel/ We'd like to plant trees there, wherever possible. Um, we have some sort of clear -zone
re ... requirements that we want to make sure we maintain. That's not only from a safety
perspective for the vehicular traffic, but also from site -line perspective for, um, you know
intersections as well as crosswalks, uh, specifically in front of Mayflower. We want to
make sure that that's going to be a safe environment for folks, but we feel it's important
to have trees planted within that median. It really helps to break up the visual, urn ... uh,
expanse of the corridor, provides some ... some interest, um, and so we'll be strategic
where we place them, but yes, we would like to have some... some trees in that median.
Throgmorton/ Okay, great!
Hansel/ And again, you're... you're spot on. We're basically... where the median is wide enough
to accept this is basically north of that Mayflower cross-section, and south of, uh, Taft
Speedway.
Throgmorton/ Uh huh.
Hansel/ Those areas. Um, in ... in other areas of the corridor where we've got a median, um, we
don't quite have that ... that much space, and so we would still make the same concept of
draining into the median, but in this case it would be more of a turf landscape, uh, there,
and we're exploring, um, various low -maintenance alternatives to that. So maybe it's
something that, um, would only require periodic moding it ... mowing, as opposed to a
regular mowing scheduling (both talking)
Dickens/ ...like natural prairie grasses? I've been reading a lot about the use of those and...
Hansel/ Potentially, yeah. I think we want to investigate to make sure it's going to be successful
here. I know there was some, um, discussion about maybe Buffalo grass or some other
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 21
varieties like that. I think we want to make sure that it's going to be, uh, successful in
this environment, um, before we commit to that ... that, but yes, that's the aspiration.
Throgmorton/ You mean native grasses, don't ya?
Hansel/ Correct. Yes. Yes, you're right. Um, so ... so that's really kind of the design concept
from a median treatment standpoint through the corridor. Um, and... and, you know,
other things related to aesthetics is we've got, you know, as you're aware, there's a ... a
rather large retaining wall along the corridor of Dubuque. Um, and we want to make sure
that that is going to be, uh, visually acceptable to ... to everybody, and so one of the things
that we're looking at now is what are those treatments that we're going to do for the
retaining wall. So the ... the system that we're doing is a mechanically stabilized earth
system, MSE wall system, but that, uh, essentially allows us to take these panels that are
shown here, um, and apply a form liner, which would be essentially a pattern or texture,
um, and ... and then possibly also a color to those panels to help ... help to blend in within
the surrounding landscape. So the aspiration is to try to mimic as best we can the
surrounding bluffs, that ... that sort of color, uh, tone, um, but you know try to give it
some relief so it doesn't look like a ... just a flat wall. And so we've been exploring, um,
form liner options, such as the one that's shown here. Um, we've seen other examples, as
well, and ... and so really what we're trying to do is ... is dive into, you know, what is the
best application for this particular corridor. Um ... uh, this is something that, um, you
know, the aspiration, and a lot of the comments we've gotten from the technical advisory
committee is we want to have a lot of relief. We want shadow lines on that to help
diminish sort of the tiled effect of...of the wall, and so that's really, uh, the focus of...of
the retaining wall at this point for what we're trying to do. And this is really what ... what
we're mostly interested in is, what is that view from City Park? What is going to be that
view from Park Road? Um, how can we help diminish the overall scale, um, and help
that wall to kind of fit in within the surroundings.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, and ... (laughs) just as one viewer, when I look at that I think, `Oh no! No,
don't make it look like that!' Right?
Hansel/ Right! Yes, and this hasn't been updated per ... these ideas. So, yes, you're exactly right.
I think that's something that we're ... we're closely monitoring now, trying to come up
with some solutions to help make that work.
Hayek/ Will ... will there be any vegetation on the river side of the wall, uh, I mean, that may be a
bad engineering move.
Hansel/ Right and (both talking)
Hayek/ ... and maybe that occurs naturally (both talking) ... sediment and whatnot, but...
Hansel/ ...landscape architect, I'll play engineer for a second! (laughter) It goes against my will
to say there's... there's no landscape on the river side of...of the wall, but um, you know
the idea is that we would ... we actually have to have some protection on that ... on the
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 22
base of the wall from the river erosion effects, and so there will be rip -rap, the stone
that's sort of...you see south of Park Road bridge right now. Um, that will help to
protect the base of that wall, um, from ... from the river. Um ... it will over time silt in a
bit...
Hayek/ Sure, sure!
Hansel/ ... and so there will be some vegetation, but I think, um, in terms of maintaining the
integrity of the protection of that wall, we want to try to minimize, um, landscaping there
as much as we can.
Hayek/ Got it!
Hansel/ Um, one of the other things that's... that's been, um, an interesting design challenge for
us is ... is related to railings. Um, so through the corridor, along that retaining wall, we
need to have a railing, obviously, to protect folks from the river side of the wall. Um, we
also have to have railings on the bridge, and so one of the things we've been trying to
explore is how do we create a system that ... that, um, looks continuous visually, uh,
through the corridor, uh, that doesn't necessarily deter from the views of Hancher beyond
and that sort of thing, and so, um, we've been doing a lot of design explorations as to
what those options are. Um, one of the challenges that we have is on the Dubuque Street
side, um, of the corridor. That railing not only has to serve a protection for pedestrians,
but also for vehicles. Um, we don't want somebody to ... to drive off the road and then
potentially have a... an incident where they could potentially go into the river, and so
what we've been really doing is doing some research and uh, actually in California
there's been a railing type that is a guardrail for scenic corridors, um, that they've used
and it's been tested from a safety perspective, um, which is something that's... that's very
important for us to make sure we comply with, and so, um, we've been taking just this
design and trying to tweak it to make it fit within the overall context of this project. And
so we've got a dicom... dichotomy of vehicular barriers versus pedestrian barriers, all
with the same intention of trying to make it as clear, as trans... transparent so that we can
see the river and the river activity.
Payne/ And not encourage people to stand on it and jump?
Hansel/ That too! That ... that would be ideal (laughter) Um, and so really, you know, one of the
things that we're looking at now, um, is a system where you potentially have on the
roadway side, um, railings that provide that guardrail protection that we need to do.
We'll try to diminish that as much as possible because we want to make sure that that is,
um, you know, does not block views of the corridor. Um, and then also, um, you know,
there's a pedestrian protection that we need to provide as well, and so what you'll see
here is, um, essentially a ... a metal mesh, uh, sort of frame that provides some protection
there so that, um, you know, from a pedestrian perspective, little children, that sort of
thing, we comply with the requirements from a railing perspective on ... on that, and so
what that does is when you back away it starts to make that somewhat transparent, like
you would a... a screen door for instance. On the bridge side, and in areas where we
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 23
don't need that vehicular protection, we can use a very similar approach, um, and not
have that ... that sort of guardrail protection, and so again, this ... when you stand back
from it, really you start to see the vertical posts, but everything else sort of recedes, um,
in the distance, and this is the ... the approach that we're looking at right now.
Payne/ So...so that would be on the bridge?
Hansel/ Correct.
Payne/ So we don't have to protect cars from going through it on the bridge?
Hansel/ Good question! Um, on the bridge we actually have a vehicular barrier, sort of a... a
concrete barrier at the curb that would protect, that would serve as that guardrail
protection. So you would essentially have a....a concrete barrier at the road edge, and
then you would have the ... the mixed, multi-purpose trail, and then, um, then a pedestrian
railing. So, yeah, we ... we actually address it through a ... another means, as opposed to
the railing.
Mims/ Cause that helps keep your pedestrians and bicyclists safe ... well, if they're using the
sidewalk. (several talking)
Hansel/ Correct. As well as the bridge structure, yes.
Mims/ Structure itself. Okay!
Dobyns/ Most people don't drive like you, Michelle! (laughter)
Hansel/ So an example of that particular system is, uh, the pedestrian bridge over Riverside, on
that Burlington. You'll notice that, um, throughout the corridor, and so if you want to get
an idea of what that looks like, that's a very good example, um, of that system, and... and
this is something we've gotten feedback from City staff is that this has held up pretty well
from a maintenance perspective and so, um, that's... that's the general direction that
we're headed, um, at this point in time. Another example of a similar type of system is a
pedestrian bridge in Omaha that ... that we worked on. Um, and in this case this shows
you an overlook on the top of that pedestrian bridge. So if you can envision the
overlooks on the ... on the Park Road bridge being something similar to the photo on the
right, um, again, you know, from a distance that ... that mesh starts to ... to recede into the
background. And you know, another little design detail is something that we need to
work through is ... is what happens when you transition from the one type of railing to the
other. Um, this is just a sort of a schematic diagram to say, you know, this is something
that we need to kind of work through to make sure that it all feels like it's one family,
um, and this could, uh, feel true as well, um, on the east side ... or excuse me, on the west
side of Park Road, um, as we go from the bridge to ... to Hancher. It's the same design
aspiration that we want to make this as seamless as possible. Um, one other design detail
that we're working through is ... is bridge protection. Um, as we mentioned, um on the
roadway side of Park Road bridge we've got a concrete barrier that helps, uh, deter ve...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 24
vehi... excuse me, vehicles from getting onto the sidewalk. Um, on the sidewalk side, or
on the trial side, um, we also have, um, some investigations to do in terms of how do we
protect, um, the archway of the ... the through -arch structure of the bridge. Um, if you can
remember, we actually have these arches that go through the concrete deck of the bridge,
between the roadway and between the trail, and so, um, in many cases like the image in
the center, um, there's a rub -rail or a ... just another version of a pedestrian railing, that
helps deter, um, bicyclists from, you know, um, conflicting with the actual structure
there. It also helps deter folks from wanting to ... to climb up the arches, which is I think
a concern that we ... we've ... we've noticed that we have to address. Um, the ... the image
on the right is just an example to say, you know, you don't necessarily have to have that
there, but you can see how you could potentially have a conflict with the bridge structure,
um, and so this is a ... another design detail that we're working through, um, right now.
Um, when we last met, I think we talked about other viewing opportunities. I know there
was a lot of discussion about, you know, wanting to ... to experience the river and ... and,
uh, have other types of overlook opportunities, and so, um, we talked a little bit about
four overlooks on the Park Road bridge, um, that you'll see on the right-hand side of the
image. Um, we also think there's an opportunity for a park feature at the southern edge
of Terrell Mill Park, um, where this ... the asterisk is located on the left. That could be a
part of this project. Could be part of a future Parks' project. Um, we also think that
there's, uh, an opportunity along Dubuque Street where the retaining wall is, and then
further south of the Park Road intersection, and we'll talk a little bit about those ... those
options. In ... in a way to sort of break up the ... the retaining wall along Dubuque Street
and provide another experience for folks using the trail, we think that ... that we could, uh,
introduce a bump -out essentially in that retaining wall, and create an overlook that is
separated from the ... the general trail traffic. Um, this ... it's about 150 -feet or so, um, so
we have a pretty good expanse there to ... to really, um, have folks have an opportunity to
kind of peel away and ... and get some respite there. Urn ... uh, I'll show cross-section,
cause it actually shows it better. So from a cross-section perspective, if you ... if you cut a
section through there, you see the ... Dubuque Street on the right-hand side of the image,
um, the trail, uh, there, with its own barrier railing, and then a... a, sort of a landscape
buffer between the general trail traffic, as well as those folks that are, urn ... uh,
experiencing the overlook, um, and ... and what this allows us to do is actually kind of
ramp down, get a little closer to the river. I know that was a ... a desire for some folks,
um, some of the feedback that we received, and then, uh, then you'll see just that general
pedestrian railing along the left-hand side there where the ... where the retaining wall is.
So (both talking)
Payne/ So how would you enter from the ... trail to the...
Hansel/ You could... you could essentially en... enter from either end. In this case, you could
enter from here or from here, and those would be small ramps that would be accessible,
uh, for folks to be able to kind of descend down into, um, what would be essentially just
a, um, a plaza space that would be the overlook. In this case we've shown a... a seat wall.
They could meander through there, as well. Um, that would deter sta ... skateboarders, for
instance, the shape of that, but would allow a lot of seating opportunities, not only to look
north, but also to look south. So if you can imagine a, um, you know, a crew race or
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 25
something like that or fireworks, you know, it'd be great opportunity for folks to ... to, uh,
to assemble. So this is something that we're working through. We've gotten some good
feedback from Project Green about, you know, is there a way that we can add some small
ornamental trees potentially in this landscape area as well to kind of break up that ... that
space as well. So, um, those are things that we're considering how. And this is an
example, um, actually in Newark, New Jersey at Riverfront Park and kind of stumbled
across this image, which actually conveys it fairly closely the design intent of what we're
trying to do. I'm not necessarily advocating we paint everything orange, but (laughter)
but this is generally the ... the feel of...of the view that you could get from experiencing
that ... that overlook. One other space that we looked at and ... and last time, um, we
talked with ... with you all, um, we talked about how can we make trail extensions, uh, in
the future along the river, um, to the south, and so the ... the current thinking is ... is to
actually peel off and make a ramp from the trail, um, the darkest lines that you see here
are actually retaining walls. Um, this allows folks to descend from the... the... the street
grade, down to, um, the landscape grade, um, essentially at the top of where the rip -rap is
that's out there now. Um, and we have a small concrete pad that could serve as a... sort
of a gathering space and overlook, if you will, but, um, also allows future connection,
um, of trail connections down the river at...at a later date. So the benefit of this
particular concept is that all the retaining wall, uh, work is out of the way. You don't
have to worry about trying to match that at a later date, uh, from a structural perspective,
and ... and it basically tees that project up, um, when the City decides to go forward with
that ... that idea (mumbled) opportunity. Um, really quickly, one of the things we've
heard from Parks and Rec is, uh, you know, uh, this is a ... particular types of benches that
they ... they prefer in the corridor. We're looking at other options, as well, um, but uh, at
the overlooks and other strategic locations in the corridor. This is something that we're
investigating, um, because we do want to have some opportunities for ... for folks to be
able to sit and enjoy. We're also looking at lighting, um, LED fixtures that are compliant
with dark sky. Um, that's something that we've always heard from folks, and so we're
investigating those options. Um, we're also investigating the color and finish of what
those are. The intent, basically, to make those light poles go away within the corridor,
and so that's, um, kind of the aspiration there. There ... we're also coordinating with
Hancher on the west end of the project, as well, to make sure that we have sort of a
seamless transition, uh, into their project. They've got some slightly different fixtures
than what we're considering, but we think that there's some common ground that we can
transition pretty well with their project as well. One other opportunity that we're looking
at is, uh, there's, uh, a large expanse of bluff face, uh, south of Mayflower that will be
exposed as part of this project. We think that's a great opportunity potentially to provide
some night lighting, uh, uplighting similar to what is done almost on Riverside, as well.
So we think that that's a great opportunity and we'll be, um, exploring opportunities to do
that.
Throgmorton/ Am I right in thinking that those (clears throat) excuse me! I ... have a little bit of a
cold. Uh, am I right in thinking that those bluff faces are on privately owned property?
Right now?
Hansel/ Um, I believe so, yeah, I think that's the case. I think that's a ... (both talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 26
Throgmorton/ ... so coordination would have to take place there, right?
Hansel/ ...great point, yes! That's something that we ... it's a concept right now. Um, we need to
flush out the details of that and see if that's, um, of interest to the community.
Dobyns/ And there's some significant erosion on part of that wall too, though it's on private
property. So I'm sure the private people who own that would be interested in some
collaboration.
Hansel/ That's... you... you hit the nail on the head. That's a coordination issue for us. Um,
from a bridge perspective, um, we had a ... a general design intent to sort of match what
you see here on this image, something that's subtle that highlights the architecture of t he
bridge, um, that does not deter the views of Hancher. Um, there's also been some
discussion about how can we coordinate potentially the lighting concept here, um, on
event nights for ... for Hancher, and so I think those are some ongoing coordination issues
as well with that project to make sure that, uh, this corridor feels, urn ... uh, you know,
feels aligned. Um, and then existing corridor amenities. There's this ... the four module
piece, um, the ... the (can't hear) Nelson piece that's out in Terrell Mill Park. Um, I...
there's an arrow basically pointing at the approximate location of where that is located.
Um, that's something that right now it's ... it's not within our construction limits. We
want to try to protect that as best we can, so we don't necessarily need to think about
relocating or anything like that. In fact, um, we've talked about opportunities maybe to
light that up, to provide a... a nighttime presence for that, um, within the corridor, but um,
that's... that's out of the ... the, uh, construction, uh, boundary for this project. Um, one
item that is within out boundary is the Iowa City sign though, and so that is something
that we've started to ... to talk with the City about, uh, potential areas to relocate that sign.
The ... the general discussion so far has been, um, just south of Foster, um ... possibly in
sort of this zone, uh, to get a little bit further north up in the corridor and still have a
prominent view, um, of...of a new sign there. So, that's something that we're working
through, as well.
Hayek/ Has our experience with that type of sign been good? I know we've had vandalism
issues and it's an easy target for people who want one of those letters in their...
Hansel/ That was actually a topic at our last TAC meeting. Um, and evidently the feedback that
we received is that whatever the latest method of attaching those letters has actually been
pretty successful.
Mims/ (both talking) I was going to say, since Tom came ... during the interview process I
remember Tom mentioning about those letters and ... I don't know if (both talking)
Markus/ ....staff, uh, creatively came up with a new way of anchoring those, that does not
sabotage anybody that would come up and try to dismantle them. (laughter) And, uh, so
it's ... it's perfectly safe but they, um, it probably requires some ... I don't know, what do
you call it? Acetylene tool or something like that to get rid of `em now, so ... (laughter)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 27
Hansel/ It's a proprietary method, yeah, so (several talking) would be a consideration (several
talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/ I was a little concerned that maybe it was, uh, that the trouble with, uh, the letters
had to do with the wild and crazy Hayek's, you know, lived in that area!
Hayek/ Yeah! (laughs) Okay, I'll return my letters! Uh (laughter) next week!
Payne/ There's not an H in there! (laughter) So, it would be kind of cool to have the sign where
you have the bridge in the background so ... and then Hancher in the background in
a ... that would make a really cool postcard.
Hansel/ Let's ... let's, uh... (several talking) Good feedback! I ... I think that's something that
we ... we ... we're evaluating, so yeah! I think ... any thoughts, and finally I just wanted to
close with I know, um, there's been some questions about the tree survey that's been
doing on through the corridor. Um, essentially if you've seen ribbons tied to the trees,
um, within the corridor and uh, the colored stakes that are in the ground. The stake is
essentially identifying the NEPA boundary that ... that was, uh, investigated and cleared
through our project. Um, the ribbons themselves, um, just simply demarcate, uh, trees
that ... that were to be surveyed by our crews and uh, ultimately what they did was
they ... they mapped those trees and then, uh, determined the species, the health, and the
quality of those from a certified arborist, and so that's all just background information
that ultimately will ... will help us and the City, uh, inform, um, you know, how to
proceed as we ... as we continue with the project, and so ... just, uh, sort of clarification of
that ... that's what's been going on out in the corridor, um, just simply some background
information that'll inform our decisions moving forward.
Throgmorton/ Would I be right in thinking that the property owners who, uh, own the
woodlands, uh, along that ... that stretch of the road, uh, have ... were informed beforehand
about what the stakes would mean, what the ribbons would mean, and so on?
Hansel/ I believe that is the case, yes.
Throgmorton/ (both talking) I ... I'm getting two different signals, to be honest, looking out into
the audience. I ... was somebody going this way and somebody saying yes, so...
Hansel/ ...let Melissa clarify.
Clow/ Melissa Clow with the Engineering Division. Um, yes, we did contact the property
owners that MMS and the arborist would be onsite, that they would be doing the tree
survey, and then after the tree survey we did let them know that we have, um, the
different classifications. The red trees are ones that are poor quality, bad health. Yellow
is moderate and green is good quality, good health, um, we'll do what we can during
grading and construction operations to try and save that tree, if it is far enough outside of
our grading limits. So we have been in touch with them.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 28
Payne/ So did you do the entire corridor, or did you just do a portion?
Clow/ No, we did the entire corridor.
Hayek/ Thanks, Melissa!
Hansel/ That's all I had, uh, unless you all have any general comments or...
Hayek/ What's the next juncture ... for interaction between you folks and us?
Dickens/ Timelines (mumbled) fun stuff!
Hansel/ Well I think... as... as I mentioned before, I know we've got 60% plans, um, that we're
hoping to shoot for mid-May, and the final plans by this ... this fall. Um, in terms of
additional Council presentation, I'll defer to anybody who's got any thoughts.
Dickens/ And when's the potential dirt could be moved?
Hansel/ Well letting would be in January, uh, of 2016 and so what do you think, Mark?
Pierson/ (difficult to hear, away from mic) Construction would be (mumbled) March, April of
2016. About a year from now.
Hayek/ We ... we gotta get this on the record. Why don't you just repeat what he said so we
could just ... it's gotta be recorded!
Hansel/ Sure! So ... so letting in January, and in March/April of 2016 would be approximate, uh,
groundbreaking.
Hayek/ Thank you!
Dilkes/ You'll see a resolution authorizing acquisition of property prior to that.
Hayek/ Okay! Okay. Well, great, thank you for the continued hard work (several talking) very
important! Okay, it's 6:20. We could jump into Court/Linn. I don't know if we've got
the time to do that or if we want to take up the other items. (mumbled) pick up after the
formal.
Davidson/ (mumbled) Mr. Mayor.
Hayek/ I don't know how much time we need!
Throgmorton/ I don't know.
Mims/ Depends on how many questions you have.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 29
Hayek / All right, well let's just...
Throgmorton/ Let's try!
Determine preferred developer for Court/Unn property (IP #3 Info Packet of 3/19):
Hayek/ ...let's go forward with Court/Linn and...
Botchway/ ... go through a presentation too? (noises in background)
Hayek/ I mean we may end up ... uh, picking up some portion of the work session after the
formal, so...
Davidson/ I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor, I was distracted there. Do you want us to go ahead with
Gateway now?
Hayek/ I think everybody... that's what the ... that's what the group wants to do!
Davidson/ Gateway, that's what you just had. With Court/Linn, is it down at the bottom?
(several talking in background) Okay! Got it! Thank you, Wendy!
Ford/ (mumbled)
Davidson/ Yep, okay. Um ... yeah, I think we can do this pretty quickly, Mr. Mayor. Um... Jeff
Davidson, Economic Development Administrator for the City. Hang on here, just let me
go to full screen. Here we go! Um ... we are pre ... pleased after much deliberation to be
able to bring you a recommendation, uh, for a preferred developer for the Court/Linn site.
When I see `we' I mean our Internal Review Committee. There's been about 10 or 12 of
us representing all the departments of the City, the City Manager's office, and the City
Council, uh, Kingsley and Susan have participated... in that committee, and you will
recall that, uh, beginning last year we started with five development proposals. Uh,
which you, um ... then took to three, and then to two, and we've had two rounds of
negotiations with those two finalists in order to get to the point, uh, where we are this
evening, and we are recommending CA Ventures, the proposal that you see on the image
here, uh, as the preferred developer, and ... what we will do is if there is a majority of
Council, uh, in ... that ... is in favor of directing us to commence negotiations with, uh, CA
Ventures that is what we will do. There is no formal action on your, uh, agenda this
evening because the formal action will be once we get that development agreement
negotiated we will bring that to you, uh, we don't really have a prognostication on how
long that will take, but uh could easily be ... four to six weeks, perhaps. We'll just have to
see how it goes. Uh, we are also recommending that, uh... uh, the two proposals,
basically be ranked as preferred developer and first alternate preferred developer. If the
preferred developer... we're unable to, uh, reach agreement with them we would then, we
feel the number two proposal is a perfectly good proposal, uh, and we would commence
negotiations, uh, there, and we would of course let you know, uh, about that. You know,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 30
the ... the two proposals, you have information, uh, which show the two proposals side-
by-side. Uh, I have to give Wendy the credit for ... for putting those documents together
along with Tracy Hightshoe and Karen Howard. Uh, very effective comparative
materials. You know there's a lot of similarities between the two proposals. We did feel
like there were a couple of things which I'll highlight quickly ... that did, uh, set the, um,
CA Ventures' proposal, uh, you know, just ... just felt like it...it gave it a little bit of an
edge. Um, CA Ventures really paid attention to our concern about compliance with the
form based code, and they came back with a proposal that was really an order of
magnitude different, the one you see here. Uh, we really liked the way, and you can see
it in this illustration very clearly how they have, uh, really paid attention to the
experience of a pedestrian at the streetscape. They have brought the building down to
the, uh, front of the street, oriented the retail, uh, retail, uh, stores along Linn Street, as
well as, uh, this ... this building that you see here in the foreground is the hotel building.
The main residential building is the one off to the side here, and I think ... I have an
image. Well here you see a .... more of a close-up of that, uh, we ... we really like the way
how they've ... this is a very ... I don't know if there's any architects in the audience, but
this is a very difficult, uh, corner to handle because you're going down, it's kind of a
compound turn as you go around the corner. Very difficult architecturally. We think
they've done a great job here, showing how it can, uh, perspectively be designed. Here
you see an aerial view and you can see real clearly the two buildings, the hotel there off
to the right, swimming pool on the roof. Uh, be about the same size as the, uh, the ... the
other hotel you've got on the agenda tonight. Roughly the same... same size. Uh, and
then the residential building off to the left. We have negotiated 32 units of affordable
housing, 80% of median and below, uh, located in ... uh, that will be mixed throughout.
Won't be set aside in one little enclave, but will be mixed throughout, uh, likely on floors
that are designated quiet floors because there are the prospect of there being some
undergraduate students in here. Um, and they've, uh, that ... that's the way they think it
should be provided, as well. Um, yeah, the couple of things, just the distinctions real
quick. Uh, one real obvious one is the purchase price for the property - $6.5 million on
the part of CA Ventures, $5 million on the part of the number two proposer. Uh, we
liked the unit mix, the residential unit mix better. You'll note that almost 90% of the
units are either one -bedrooms or two -bedrooms in CA Venture's proposal. Uh, almost
half are three-bedroom units in the Core Campus proposal, so we really liked that unit
mix, uh, better. We have a slightly more... there's... there's 20,000 square feet, actually a
little bit more than that, for the potential new co -lab space. Slightly more favorable
conditions, uh, for our purchase of that space. We will be applying for a grant from the
Economic Development Administration to hopefully defer a part of that expense, uh, but
we do see this as the ... this would basically allow us to quadruple the space of the existing
co -lab, which is bursting at the seams right now, which is a good problem to have! Uh,
and ... and we see them moving across the street to the property here. Um, they have
indicated... one thing we asked them to take a look at, which they've agreed to, is the
possibility of going ... trying to design the building to LEED Gold standards rather than
LEED Silver, uh, and they've indicated that they will take a look at that, and again, that'll
be tied up in the development agreement, but they will take a look at that. You'll recall
the 316 Madison project is being designed to LEED Gold standards, so that's why we
asked `em to take a... a shot here. Uh, and then we did confirm with them the integration
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 31
of the affordable units throughout the building and not all in one location. They were
good to go with that. So, um, Susan and Kingsley, anything to add from your
perspectives?
Mims/ I would just add, and I think Jeff has ... has really hit the highlights of, um, of what we
talked about in terms of, you know, the ... what they were going to pay for the property,
etc. Um, and the unit layouts that ... was really important in terms of the distribution
between, um, the one -bedroom, two-bedroom, etc. One of the other things that ... that was
brought forward by Tom Jackson that was I think very, um, impressive for the Committee
is Tom did some calculations. If you took out the square footage for the parking garage
and what he estimated as the cost per parking space, took out those dollars and took out
that square footage, and then came up with dollar -per -square foot for the rest of the
building. It was about 27% higher for CA Venture than it was for Hub. Which he felt,
uh, given a highrise building like this, really ... lent itself to the potential of a much higher
quality building and not necessarily as much of a chance of a developer getting kind of
half -way through this and feeling like they needed to cut corners, um ... to meet their
budget, and so that was ... that was pretty impressive that there was a ... about a 27%
difference in their cost per square foot that they were going to put into this building after
you took out the parking garage, space, and expenses. Um, otherwise ... I won't reiterate
everything that Jeff said, but ... those were the main, uh (both talking)
Davidson/ Yeah, and certainly I hadn't mentioned, but it bears mentioning I think that this
project is ... is according to the calculations which Wendy has made, working with the
City Assessor, so not a number that the developer came up with (noises on mic, difficult
to hear speaker) we came up with, will generate slightly over $1.8 million annually, uh,
in property taxes, and ... and that is obviously very, very significant.
Payne/ And that's for all three entities.
Davidson/ That's for all three entities, uh, we receive about 40% of that.
Markus/ I wanted to add, uh, conversation about a couple other things that we discussed during
the Committee meeting and... and one is on the co -lab issue. The developer proposed or
gave us some price points for us to actually acquire the 20,000 square foot space. The
current TIF project, or current co -lab project rather is about 5,500 square feet. And so
one of the things we've been looking at for co -lab is... space where, um, businesses that
get started and start growing can move into additional space, which we think that that
extra 15,000 sq... square feet would create for us. Uh, my personal preference is that we
would actually acquire that space, and so we had talked at one point about the potential of
using some of the proceeds, but there's some problems with the proceeds. The proceeds,
um, initially... the... the payment proceeds for the property, the money that came to
acquire the St. Pat's site to begin with came from the parking fund. And so we're... we
will do our due diligence, but we believe that that money probably has to go back into the
parking fund, and even the ... the amount over and above the, um ... the amount that was
paid for the St. Pat's property to begin with. (someone talking in background) Yeah, so
it was like $3 million. So, one of the things that, you know, we've been very proud of
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 32
during this whole conversation is that there's no incentives that are going to be provided
here, but one thing I would ask that you keep an open mind about is the potential to do a
rebate TIF on the acquisition of the co -lab space. And that could be amortized quite
quickly based on the numbers, um, that Jeff talks about in terms of the, um, amount of
increased tax base that will be created because of this project. So ... to give you an
example, um, to ... to buy the basic shell of that space, I think the developer estimated was
about $2 million, plus/minus some marginal amount there, and so you could amortize that
and quite frankly if you used the whole increment, which I don't recommend we do, but
you could amortize that easily in two to four years. So I would like to see that acquired.
I'd like to make sure that Iowa City gets that space... because... you know when the
whole co -lab started, Iowa City moved in on that fairly strongly, and it was a risk. We
weren't sure co -lab was going to work. But we have since learned that it is ... had pretty
good success beyond what our expectations were, and I think what happened there is
there's an evolution going on in ... uh, economic development, and so ... generating your
own, creating your own, especially in a university town, makes sense and I think it
works. And to Mark Nolte's credit and to ICAD's credit, they ... you know they came up
with the idea and they pursued it, and to the City of Iowa City's credit and ... and our
other partners in ICAD, uh, we bought into it and I think we're seeing that that does
work. So, I ... I'm telling you that while we promise no incentives on this, this may be to
our advantage because quite frankly this, um, when you use ICA ... uh, TIF money, you're
extracting or you're reducing the amount that would typically go to both the City, the
Schools, and the County, but all of those entities would benefit from this. And the reality
is, where we have not TIF'd to the extent that other jurisdictions in the area have, uh,
potentially that would show some, uh, reinvestment on their part into projects here in
Iowa City. So, that may come back as a part of the development agreement (background
noises) The other issue I'll ... I'll tell you we talked about, uh, during the Committee was
in addition to their what I call their very, urn ... uh, equitable commitment to affordable
housing in this project, the discussion came up about potentially extracting additional
funds that would be placed in an affo ... affordable housing account and going back to my
earlier comments, about whether we can use the money or not, um, potentially we ... we
may come back with a negotiation that suggests that the purchase prices, uh, about the
same, a little bit higher than maybe the other, uh, developer was, and then, um, maybe a
contribution on their part to that, um, type of activity. We don't know that yet; we
haven't gotten into the negotiation, but I wanted you to know that that was a discussion
that occurred at the Committee, and we will come back with whether we can legally do it
and if we can, what our recommendation would be at that time.
Davidson/ So, Mr. Mayor, if you could just see if there's concurrence, uh...
Hayek/ Yeah, I mean, so this is, you know, been vetted by our internal committee, I think quite
extensively. Um, but ... what they need from us is ... a green light to proceed with further
negotiation.
Throgmorton/ What ... yeah, I ... I'd like to say something about this. Uh, I think there's a great
deal about this project that I like a lot, uh, and I really want to express my admiration for
the skill with which Jeff and Wendy and, uh, Tracy, uh, and Karen, uh, Howard have,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 33
um, and the other staff members, have uh... exercised in this, throughout the whole
process of originally sorting through the developers, narrowing it down, doing this
negotiation with the two competitors, and ... uh, leading us to this particular one. I think
it's done bril... you've done brilliantly, uh, and I'm fully onboard with it. So, I just want
to be clear about that. I am a little puzzled about one thing. Uh, and it has to do with...
and this isn't going to re ... keep me from supporting this strongly, but ... um ... it ... it's,
there was, there were some comments, uh, earlier in our meeting tonight about how, uh,
the developer might come back with a request for financial assistance, which I think...
may be the same thing you're talking about, Tom, I'm not sure. It seemed like it was
push back from the developer, and yet the written commentary, the written text that we
have before us says they've stated very clearly they're not asking for financial support.
So ... you know?
Markus/ That's kind of the normal give and take between staff and consultants. And, um, I
would ... I would say to you that our intent is not to have ... that occur, um, and ... it, quite
frankly we feel that we've negotiated to this point, um ... and quite frankly that's why
we're keeping the second in line, in place, to keep the process honest in that regard.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, okay.
Markus/ Now ... what you picked up in my comments versus Tom Jackson's comments... those
are two separate things.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Markus/ Okay? The acquisition of the, uh, co -lab space is not the same as what Tom was
referring to...
Throgmorton/ I understand.
Markus/ Tom I think is being somewhat realistic that there's a negotiation process in all of these
things and we may get some push -back in that regard, and there may be trade-offs back
and forth. Um ... I ... I don't ... I'm not going to take... and.... and that's why I made the
comment, I'm not going to yield on that kind of position. Clearly I'm not going to send
that kind of indication at this point that we would even consider such a thing.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Markus/ And I... and quite frankly, I would think it would be bad faith on their part to even
broach that issue.
Jackson/ I want to put out, Tom's right, and Tom's wrong! (laughter) I should point out one
other thing about this site that's unlike the other one we were talking about earlier, and
that is ... a heck of a lot of the pre -development risk has been handled by the City by
assembling this parcel, clearing it, doing some preliminary, uh, site testing and other
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 34
things on it. So that takes a lot of risk off the developer. Again, that's one more reason
they can move forward with ... out any subsidy.
Throgmorton/ Uh huh.
Markus/ And ... and I want to add to what Jim said earlier about the staff in this process. This
was largely a learning process and I want to ... I want you to know that this staff that you
named, and others, uh, performed about as well as they could of, uh, in my estimation,
and ... and it evolved each step, and we ... we learned something during all of this, and I
said that to Jeff. I said, you know, this came together and we kept ... we kept talking to
each other and communicating back and forth about how to get this to the next step and
everybody contributed to that, okay? Legal, Planning, Building, Administrative, uh, even
Council, uh, participated at that, as well, and I think it just kept moving forward to the
point where by the way this was a unanimous conclusion. The other thing I want you to
now is ... that ... Jeff Davidson has been involved in this from the beginning. Not the
beginning that you might think the beginning was. But the beginning going back to the
time this property was acquired. And he and I think Chris O'Brien's predecessor, okay,
um, were very... persistent in their demand that the City acquire this property. And... it
turned out really quite well, and you should thank that persistence, because sometimes I
repel that persistence (laughter) okay, but that persistence turned into what you have in
front of you, and now what we need to do is conclude the negotiation to bring it to full
cycle.
Hayek/ Well if...if, uh, if my numbers are right, if this kicks off a million eight, and if the City's
share is roughly 40%, I mean, that's a ... and if our...if our general fund budget is roughly
50 ... million, I mean that's a ... that's a 1.4% bump!
Davidson/ Very significant! Yep.
Hayek/ You know, which is ... you know, as we face an uncertain future with the State and
property tax reform.
Davidson/ And I've pointed out to people, Matt, that we're not going to have a lot of projects
like this (both talking)
Hayek/ No, I know, this is a once -in -a -blue -moon but (both talking)
Davidson/ ...of a scale that we're not going to see in Riverfront Crossings again, but it ... but we
feel like this particular project really will fit in nicely.
Botchway/ And I would just say that my (noises in background, difficult to hear speaker) I just
agree with all the points that have been raised, um, obviously Tom's last point about the
affordable housing fund was huge, um, sticking point of mine as well as, um ... uh, the
discussion that even when I walked in about the, uh, I don't know I think Tracy's here
but, um, the discussion about the one or two bedrooms being more, um ... important from
an affordable housing standpoint (several talking) what I was thinking when I walked in,
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 35
and so um, kind of speaking to Tom's point, you know, just a deliberation between each
other about particular things. I think, again, helped me learn about the process, um, and
again, I always felt like I was ... when I came to the meeting I was well-informed about
everything that had happened in previous conversations, able to make, you know,
whatever type of decision based on the information that was provided, so I'm very
appreciative of everything that the team did.
Markus/ The other thing I want to mention to you, you know, Jeff will be making presentations
during the formal meeting. Jeff is not the type to really stick around for the end of the
meeting, but this is Jeff's last ... uh, work session and Jeff's last formal meeting, so don't
let him get out of here without ... you know, thanking him for his years of service.
We ... (several responding)
Hayek/ We won't! (laughter)
Davidson/ Any other questions, Mr. Mayor?
Hayek/ No, sir!
Davidson/ Thank you! (laughter)
Hayek/ Stick around, please! Okay! It's 18 of. Uh, let's take up the rest of the, uh, work session
after formal.
Dickens/ Can I ask just one thing, uh, paratransit needs to have a reappointment, and I would ask
that I be reappointed by the Council. I don't know if it's... (several talking) is it coming
UP...
Karr/ We're working on that!
Dickens/ Okay!
Hayek/ Okay!
Dickens/ ...the last meeting that Rick ... they changed so he couldn't make it (laughs)
Hayek/ Sounds good. Let's come back (noises on mic)
(BREAK)
Information Packet Discussion (March 12, 19):
Hayek/ We were... (several talking) ... some of which we've taken up already.
Mims/ Yeah, we did get through Court/Linn.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 36
Hayek/ Uh, the first Info Packet was from...
Mims/ March 12tH
Hayek/ March 12tH. (several talking in background)
Karr/ ...I need it back on. We're on for the work session. (several talking; noises on mic)
Okay, now it is. It's on now! (several talking)
Botchway/ I just want to say that, um ... the, uh, Charter Review Commission just had a
monumental job and ... just ... it just seemed like each of the minutes I read, they just really
deliberated about ... just wordsmithing so many different things. I mean, it was just
amazing the level of detail that they went into in regards to this and I just really
appreciate that.
Mims/ Yeah, they did a great job.
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Payne/ And ... and they weren't each afraid to say their opinion.
Botchway/ Yeah.
Payne/ You know, it's ... they were in a group but they still ... each said their opinion and talked
through each... each thing, and I agree with you, it was a... it was good!
Hayek/ Yeah, it was basically a constitutional convention, you know (several talking) Lot of
verbiage to cope with, but they did a great job and ... (several talking)
Throgmorton/ I ... I'd also like to credit them on the ... the summary report, and uh, I guess they
all collectively responsible for it. One of the things I noticed was that, uh, it seemed to
me that they fairly presented the alternative views that were presented with regard to each
of the topics.
Payne/ Yep!
Throgmorton/ Especially the ones that were ultimately rejected. I ... I still had the sense that...
the diversity of views were reflected in the report and (several talking) they made
recommendations to us, which surely we're going to take up at some point.
Dobyns/ (several talking) ...incredibly readable. I was very impressed.
Mims/ Yep!
Payne/ And, they articulated... their views.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 37
Dobyns/ Yeah.
Payne/ ...which was great.
Hayek/ Anything else on that Info Packet?
Mims/ Um, on IP4, do ... has somebody volunteered to do the annual bike, bus, car race?
Throgmorton/ I contacted Sarah Waltz and said I'd be willing to do it.
Mims/ Good, we have a volunteer! (laughter)
Throgmorton/ Maybe somebody else would want to do it too, I don't know!
Mims/ No, that's okay! We just wanted to make sure we had a volunteer. Uh, KXIC...
Payne/ That's what I was going to ask too, Susan.
Mims/ (both talking) IP6 KXIC, Marian has about two pages of schedules for us to fill out
(laughs)
Botchway/ That's not on this one. It was on ... on the other one.
Payne/ It's on (several talking)
Karr/ It's on the 121H
Mims/ On the 12th, IP6. (several talking)
Hayek/ You know what though (several talking)
Mims/ Oh, okay, that's not the ... (several talking) Okay! You're right! That's not the whole...
Payne/ And, by the way, on April 1 st, I have a conflict.
Mims/ I'll do it for you, Michelle.
Payne/ Oh! Okay! Thank you, Susan.
Karr/ April 1St we'll switch.
Mims/ Okay.
Payne/ And, Susan, if something comes up, I can call Jay and see if I can record it at a different
time, but...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 38
Mims/ I can do it. That's not a problem. Um...
Hayek/ (mumbled) switching?
Mims/ April 1St, she can't do it. She was already on for April 1 St, and I'm going to do it. (several
talking)
Hayek/ Okay.
Mims/ That's the end of what we have done. Okay, so ... no, I don't have anything else for IP...
for the 12th (mumbled)
Hayek/ Okay.
Dobyns/ When I take a look on it, I counted, um, from April through the end of the year, 40
Wednesdays and 18 Fridays, and I ... I have trouble with my schedule doing the
Wednesdays. Um, and I'd prefer to do only Fridays, preferably after July. Um, with the
community meetings we're, you know, we're talking about having planned and all the
radio shows, urn ... you know for me it sort of gets away from... the... being a citizen
council member. I mean, it's ... I'm not a professional politician. I ... I, and it's hard for
me to attend that many radio shows. I can go to the Friday ones. I recognize there is a
difference — the Friday ones are live, and the Wednesday ones are taped. But... um, you
know, for me personally the Friday ones work really (mumbled) but I'd really have to... I
just have to de-emphasize my one-seventh presence, um, on the Wednesday shows.
Mims/ Okay!
Hayek/ Well I think we .... (several talking) I ... I, do you want us to sit here and go through...
Karr/ No, not at all! No, no! (laughter and several talking) No, I believe ... two things, I think
there were two things. Number one, the ... the Wednesday show is something we ... we
have coordinated in the past. Okay? Then this other opportunity came up for Friday, and
that was done individually.
Botchway/ Yeah, I wanted to...
Karr/ Kingsley's requested we put this in here for discussion (several talking) No, it's not a
fault, but again, I think it's much more ... I'll be happy to coordinate it, but I don't know
that it has to be both, as ... as Council Member Dobyns had indicated. It can be one or the
other. I think it's ... there's a benefit in one person coordinating your schedules so that we
can ... find (laughs) find assignments and do that type of thing. If you're interested in
doing it, I'd be happy. Just let me know the dates and we'll ... we'll mock up something
and I can include it in there. But I think there'll be some that the schedules'll work better
for others and we can just ... I can include it on the same schedule, and get caught up, if
you're interested. But I don't think it's a matter of...all of us doing it all the time.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 39
Mims/ Right. I had a quick question. Rick has indicated Fri ... yeah, the Fridays work better for
him. Are there other people for which either the Wednesday or the Friday just kind of
work better for their schedule?
Botchway/ Well .... and that's why I wanted to be on this agen... or, to be talked about right now,
because I don't think we discussed last time whether or not we were going to do it, and so
I wanted to do it, cause it ... Friday works really well for me because I now have a
meeting every Wednesday that I can't necessarily move all the time and so ... Friday
works better. So I ... I really want to do the Friday!
Hayek/ What ... what, so what if we ... go ahead!
Karr/ Well no, I mean, I ... I can ... why don't you just let me know and I'll mock up something
and I can send it to you electronically. Once we reach consensus then I can just put it in
the packet for information purposes and share that with Jay. I don't know that we have to
take time (both talking)
Payne/ So just send to you what dates we're available.
Karr/ Or ... or again, if you'd like to be out of contention for Wednesdays, and Fridays are better,
I'll work up a schedule, match it up to the Wednesday schedule...
Payne/ Okay!
Karr/ And then put it in the packet, if that works for you.
Payne/ Yes!
Hayek/ And I ... I just think our goal should be ... fairly consistent representation from the seven
on these programs. I mean, in rough proximity, so that, you know, we're all taking
roughly ... the same share. Now you don't have that same ability, Rick. We get that.
Mims/ Well, and Kingsley doesn't either. So I think we've gotta ... work on that, so that (both
talking)
Hayek/ Yeah, no I get (both talking)
Mims/ ... if other people want to do the Fridays with the mor ... live morning show...
Karr/ I think that's what's going to happen.
Mims/ ..that they're not getting all of them simply because they can't do the Wednesday, so I
think ... you know...
Hayek/ Yeah.
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 40
Dobyns/ I want to be fair. I mean, if a lot of you want to do the live Friday shows, then I do
what... whatever fraction, I mean, if there's ... and I'll take whatever Fridays to be fair,
but, Marian, if it was like really ... let's say all of the other six wanted to do Fridays as
well, um ... you know, would I be willing to do Wednesdays? At less of rate than I do
now, but I'd really want to cause I don't want to be, you know ... I still want to see Jay
every once in a while (laughter and several talking)
Botchway/ ...if Rick's not pulling his weight I have a problem with that so ... (laughter)
Karr/ Okay, why don't I mock up something and share it with you electronically, and when we
reach consensus we'll put it in as a firmed -up schedule. (several responding)
Hayek/ Okay! So then who's going to take July ... I'm just kidding! (laughter) Okay, uh, we are
on the 19th. Anything else on that Info Packet?
Botchway/ Yes! So ... um, I did want to talk about the, uh, IP ... the agreement. I know that Geoff
isn't here and I don't know if you can speak to it, Tom. (several talking) The, sorry, the
Coralville arena project update. Um, I just want to talk about (several talking) IP6,
sorry! I guess, and kind of based on our conversation earlier, I'm not necessarily as
interested in having ... well, I'm going to say two things — one, I'm very interested in this.
I mean this is something that is ... concerning to me from the standpoint of ... quote,
unquote pulling business or pulling athletics are whatever was described in the memo to
Coralville, and so that's just my first concern, but then my second concern is somewhat
in conjunction with that, from a standpoint of I'm not interested in having kind of a ... an
open-ended, uh ... agreement out there where none of the other entities have agreed to. I
mean, I don't know whether or not we could pull that back. I'm talking about the
communication agreement — sorry! I need to not talk in my head and talk out loud, um,
but the communication agreement. It's not necessarily specifically talked about here
but ... (several talking) I'm trying to make it conjunction with the work session discussion
we had. I mean, if people aren't interested in doing that, and I say the ud... other entities,
I would ... I just don't want it to be sitting around for...
Mims/ I think we need to give it more time and continue to try and work on it. But...
Dilkes/ We haven't agree ... I mean, an agreement is nothing until it's signed by the other parties,
so ... (several talking and laughing)
Botchway/ Well I guess ... but my ... my issue is is that ... and you kind of alluded to the fact that,
you know, it's going back and forth between, you know, whether or not this is something
that's like binding to whether or not this was just kind of a communication document, and
just kind of hearing this, or seeing this particular, um, memo from obviously you and
Geoff, I'm not inclined to believe there's that communication going on, and so I just have
issues...
Mims/ Bingo!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 41
Botchway/ ...with...
Payne/ There's not!
Botchway/ ...how we're doing.
Dobyns/ It's a non -communication agreement! (laughter)
Botchway/ I just ... I just have problems with that, and especially... and then from a ... gra ... a
greater standpoint, how we have these continual deliberations as far as, you know, we're
working together, you know, everybody puts their, uh, smile on in front of the camera,
and we're not doing that. I just have a problem with being that person, smiling when this
type of stuff is going on. That's all! I just don't (several talking)
Markus/ You know ... I ... I think that's ... I think that's a fair thing to say, but what I would say to
you is ... this Council has gone on record adopting that document, and when people say
that ... we're difficult to get along with, we're the ones that have put that document out
there, to facilitate communication amongst the jurisdictions. So I would leave that
document out there. We're the ones that have adopted it. If you have problems with
us... for, you know, communication or something like that, we tried to set up a protocol.
It's there! Why isn't ... why aren't the others joining that? I do think... and... and I got a
lot of push -back from at least one of the communities about putting this on our agenda,
and my point to that person was, you know, we've been talking about this amongst the
three city managers for ... two -plus years. And it's time for the city councils to have that
discussion. It's time, you know, if the councils can't ... you know, direct us to do this, if
the councils can't get onboard, I mean ... really? You're... you're opposed to signing an
agreement that says we'll communicate? And that we do it in somewhat of a prescribed
fashion to make sure that we give heads -up to each other, and we talk to each other about
things? Wow, I'm kinda surprised people could be against that! (laughs) So I would
leave it out there as us having signed it. I don't believe you can force `em to sign it.
They can be all sorts of, you know, commentary back and forth, but what we've signed is
a ... I think is a pretty high -road kind of document. And, you know, if people follow it,
I ... I actually think the relationships could be improved! You know.
Dilkes/ My point, Kingsley, was that there's no downside to leaving it out there. We ... we've
said this is acceptable to us. It's not... it's not like somebody could bind us to it when
they're not binding themself to it.
Botchway/ Okay.
Mims/ The other thing, I don't know if you get the Gazette, but Sunday's Gazette had a huge
article on this that you might want to look at online, um, they ... talking to the mayor of
Cedar Rapids. Um, Cedar Rapids is very concerned, um, about this, not only this one,
but Marion has also put in for the same type of grant for a convention center. Um, would
be much smaller than the Five Season Center in Cedar Rapids, but, um ... so, yeah, so the
mayor of Cedar Rapids is very aware of this, and talked about it in terms of ... people
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 42
feeling that this kind of competition was okay, but that competition between gaming
entities was not, in that Cedar Rapids got turned down for their casino license. Um,
so ... you know, he's gotta figure out how he walks that line in terms of promoting one
versus the other, and I think a big part of it is public money. Um, the State and the feds,
uh, as I read the article, gave Cedar Rapids over ... I don't know how much they gave.
The project was over $100 million, I believe, for the renovation.
Markus/ ...I don't think it necessarily said how much (both talking)
Mims/ I don't think it did. I think it was over $100 million that the project cost, and it just said
they got State and federal money.
Markus/ That's correct.
Mims/ Um, and so now Mayor Corbett's point was, are they going to turn around and give State
money to Coralville and to Marion for projects that are going to compete with and maybe
make Cedar Rapids' project less viable. I mean, does that really make sense ... to give
State money to projects that are gonna... basically eat each other alive? So ... um, so I
would assume that there's some lobbying going on behind the scenes from ... some
people.
Hayek/ So ... Kingsley, with respect to the communication protocol, um, I mean that ... I agree
with you! It ... first of all, it's a very watered-down document, and it went through
multiple rounds of discussion between our city administrators, with the help of Legal,
um, and it's a reasonable document, but it's political at this point and...
Mims/ Yeah.
Hayek/ ...I can tell you I ... I think there are at least two of the five voting members of the
Coralville council who under no circumstance would support this at this point, and it's
the balance that is the question mark. Um ... and I think we would have avoided this, for
example, Leepfrog problem, um, if...if we had something in place, but it ... it's political,
um, I hope ... I hope the other communities come around on it. I think it'd be good for the
region. Urn ... and urn ... sorry, we're actually in a work session.
Botchway/ I know I just was wondering how ... that's okay. I'll talk after (both talking)
Hayek/ I'll be happy to talk to you after our meeting! Thanks! Urn... anyway, so that ... it's...
it's unfortunate and ... and uh, but it's ... it also does not surprise me, um, which I'm sad to
say. The other issue (mumbled) issue is concerning and um, you know, it goes to ... um,
you know we had this issue with ... with the pilot out there, with... connection with the
Hospital facility which is the most amazing... public subsidy, um ... uh...
Mims/ Of a non-taxable (both talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 43
Hayek/ ...long time, and you know, and ... I mean, the ... the warped part of that is is that the
biggest taxpaying entity and IRL is a public entity, the Hospital. Um, and you have, uh,
this ... just down the road you have this potential... partnership on ... on an arena, the ... the
details of which we haven't quite seen, but we know... or we suspect that it, you know,
the intention is to have ... either Hospital or athletic or both, um ... backing, uh, which is
another public subsidy and does ... what does that mean for the U of I campus? What
does that mean for our athletic facilities? Yeah, so we're watching it. It's, uh, I'm glad
you picked up on that, cause it's ... it's a concern and we don't have the information yet.
Dobyns/ And to be...
Mims/ ...find it online (mumbled) Gazette.
Botchway/ Yeah (several talking)
Mims/ I've still got it at home.
Dobyns/ And to be clear, Kingsley, I mean I work at UI Healthcare, um, it makes me very
uncomfortable that the place I work I think goes beyond collaborating with the City of
Coralville. I think it approaches collusion, to the point where ... and I understand that a
lot of the money over the years with tax increment financing that it's just embarrassingly
done by the City of Coralville, um, takes away from the School District, where you work!
Um ... and I realize that some of that money is, you know, handled by the State, but still,
um, it embarrasses me when I see things like that. Um, I have when I first entered
Council being on with the west side. Um, I thought I had, you know, since I did a lot of
my shopping and my recreation in Coralville. I started to have conversations, uh, in
private with, uh, members of their leadership there, and some were receptive, some were
embarrassingly unreceptive and condescending. Um, to the point where, uh, I was on a
KXIC radio show and I actually ... a member of this group that had a debate, such as it
was, with a member of the Coralville city council. I can't say it was well received, but it
was public. Um, and so I've, uh, I mean I share your concerns. Um, I don't think I've
been reticent, um, about it. I've tried not to be excessive about my, um, concerns about
what the City of Coralville leadership is doing, but I have been active.
Hayek/ Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln ... uh... (mumbled) Okay, uh... go ahead (both talking)
Botchway/ So last thing would be the other, um, email I sent. So, um, I would just be interested
...I know we have work session items we need to get through, but just making sure this is
a part of the work session. I kind of talked to Eleanor, if you don't mind me talking to
you ... or talking to everybody else about what we talked about, about having a wage theft
ordinance, um, created, but then Eleanor gave ... and I don't, I mean I can share that with
everybody else later on, gave kind of a great, um, outline with why that couldn't work
and you know the State already has a law on its books, but this one I thought just...
handled it a little differently from a city standpoint in the event that someone would, um,
you know, be charged with, uh, wage theft from a business or whatever the case may be.
Then we as a city, from an ordinance standpoint, wouldn't, um... support that particular
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 44
business or wouldn't provide some type of funding for that particular business. And I
guess I just want us to ... spend a little more time possibly putting an ordinance together in
that way. I just don't understand not paying somebody. I mean, if I didn't get my check,
it'd be an issue, and I mean it'd be an issue that I'd be broadcasting every City Council
meeting that I would have, and ... or that I would be a part of, and so this again I think
changes the discussion a little bit to where, again, the ordinance... and this is just the
specific ordinance for Chicago, or their county, but it prohibits businesses that engage in
wa... wage theft from obtaining county contracts, business licenses, and property tax
incentives for a period of five years, and so while we wouldn't necessarily have the same,
um, we wouldn't necessarily be, um, doing it in some like criminal way or whatever way,
civil way that, um, I had proposed earlier to Eleanor. This at least would allow for the
City to do something along those lines as far as wage theft was concerned, to penalize
businesses, um, from conducting in that type of behavior.
Payne/ So you mean if they were found guilty after being prosecuted for it? Not just somebody
accuses them of it.
Botchway/ No, right. No, this wouldn't be ... somebody says wage theft occurred and ... no, it
would have to be, um, a... finding that a wage theft occurred.
Dilkes/ I haven't looked at ... in detail at the Chicago ordinance, um, if...if you want me to do
that I can do that.
Throgmorton/ I ... I would say if there's something we could do at a local level that's consistent
with State law that we could actually enact at a local level, meaningfully, I'd support
looking into it as a ... as a possibility.
Dilkes/ There's a ... I mean there's been a ... when ... when Kingsley and I first talked, or he first
raised the issue with me, I think the ones that were being looked at at that time, I ... in my
mind raised significant preemption issues with the State code. Um ... but there are lots of
different kind of wage theft ordinances that, um, and I'm ... I'm happy to take a look at the
Chicago one. Specifically.
Hayek/ I'm okay asking (several talking) to take a look at it. Yeah, my understanding was that
there was always preemption...
Dilkes/ ...issue with the ... with the regulation of ... of it.
Botchway/ (several talking)
Hayek/ Is anyone else in Iowa doing this?
Dilkes/ Who you chose to do business with, I mean, that has a different flavor to it (several
talking)
Botchway/ Yeah, and that's where ... I'm...
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.
March 23, 2015 Iowa City City Council Work Session Page 45
Dilkes/ I'm not ... I ... not that I know of, but I can certainly ask my colleagues in other cities..
Botchway/ And I don't believe so, based on the information that I was getting from the CWJ.
Dilkes/ I actually prefer to look at an actual ordinance, because when people just say `wage theft'
ordinances, there's all different ones out there so it's hard to do a very good ... so I'll look
at the Chicago one.
Hayek/ Or Cook County actually.
Dilkes/ Cook County or whatever.
Council Time:
Hayek/ Anything else on the work... on the Info Packet? Okay. Council time? (several talking)
Yeah, uh, pending work session topics. And upcoming events! Okay!
Mims/ We are adjourned!
Hayek/ Let's go home! Thank you, everyone!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of March 23, 2015.