HomeMy WebLinkAbout2016-07-05 TranscriptionPage I
Council Present:
Council Absent:
Staff Present:
Others Present:
Cole, Dickens, Mims, Taylor, Thomas, Throgmorton
Botchway
Fruin, Andrew, Dilkes, Karr, Havel, Yapp, Rackis, Boothroy, Ralston,
Howard
Simpson (UISG)
Questions from Council re Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/ Okay, so let's get this Iowa City City Council work session for July 51h underway.
Questions from Council about agenda items.
ITEM 2a.Approval of Council Actions, subject to corrections, as recommended by
the City Clerk: ITEM 2a(1) June 21 Work Session
Karr/ Mr. Mayor, we'd just like to note that there is one correction in the work session minutes.
You have a revised page 2 in front of you. We'll just adopt the Consent Calendar as
amended.
Throgmorton/ And I have to say as amended, huh? No, it doesn't, because it's already in the
motion. Yeah. Um .... so I'm hearing a lot of silence here. No questions about the
agenda?
Cole/ I do have one question regarding the road diets on First Avenue and Mormon Trek, um .... I
believe that that was referenced, and I think it was 2£...
Throgmorton/ It's in the correspondence.
ITEM 2f(10) Angie Smith; Tom Rutkowski; Amaris Hanson; Dan Berkowitz; Nate
Van Der Weide; Murray Bouschlicher; Ryan Kinser; Tom Carsner; Bjorn
Swenson; Nick Maddix; Karen Parrott; Jason B. Lassner; Karen Torno
Fashimpaur; H. J. Pedelty; Anne Duggan, Think Bicycles of Johnson County;
Amanda McFadden; Grant Brown; Quinn Stamp; Kevin Burgess; Donald Baxter
(x2); Tim R. Sissel: Bike Lanes and Road Diets
Cole/ Some of the correspondence. What's the timeframe that we're looking at on that, Geoff?
Cause I've been getting a lot of those questions and I just .... I didn't know when
we ... when it would actually be coming before us. Do we have to vote on it yet or how
does that work?
Fruin/ Well, you'll eventually vote on the plans and specs for the project.
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Cole/ Okay.
Frain/ Um, so those ... those'll be forthcoming. Um, but prior to then, probably prior to your next
Council meeting we'll put forward a memo to you that summarizes the input that we've
received, give you one opportunity to give us further direction before we move to
developing those plans and specs.
Cole/ Okay.
Frain/ Um .... the First Avenue project, we would, uh, expect to complete this year with the
completion of the grade separation project and Mormon Trek will be next spring, if
things stay on track.
Cole/ Okay.
Dickens/ How did that meeting go ... wasn't there a meeting on the 30a'?
Frain/ Yeah, there was a meeting on each location. I think the, uh, meeting... First Avenue went a
little better than the meeting, uh, on Mormon Trek. There was some vocal opposition,
uh, on the Mormon Trek, uh, project. Um, there were some .... in attendance who were
also supportive, but uh, more that were oppositional. Um .... and then, uh, First Avenue, I
think, went .... went pretty well. So we'll ... the staff that was there will summarize that
and, uh, get that to ya. It'll give you a chance to ask us any further questions before we
move to plans and specs.
Cole/ Okay. Sounds good! Just for record purposes, I was referring to Item 2f(10).
ITEM 2d(4) ENGINEERING BUDGETED POSITIONS — RESOLUTION
AMENDING BUDGETED POSITIONS IN THE ENGINEERING DIVISION OF
THE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT AND THE ADMINISTRATIVE PAY
PLAN BY DELETING THE POSITION OF ARCHITECTURAL
SERVICES/ENERGY COORDINATOR, ADMINISTRATIVE GRADE 27, AND
ADDING ONE FULL-TIME CIVIL ENGINEER, AFSCME GRADE 15.
Throgmorton/ I guess I have a short question about Item 2d(4), which is about the architectural
coordinator energy services position. I just want to hear assurance that we would not be
losing any, um, energy efficiency competency by .... I don't know, re .... reassigning that
position.
Frain/ No, uh, actually the, uh, Kumi Morris was the, uh, former, uh, architectural energy
services coordinator and she's moved, uh, into our facilities management division. She's
now the, uh, coordinator of our facilities management division, so all the expertise that
she had carries over to that new role, and um .... uh, over the years that's been designated
to other staff, as well. When we brought on a sustainability coordinator several years
ago, uh, Brenda picked up a lot of the energy analysis as well, so we won't be losing
anything there.
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Throgmorton/ Okay, good deal. Uh, well that's like two questions about the agenda. Any
others? All right, I'm not hearing any. So let's turn to evaluating the implementation of
a form -based code in one or two parts of the community. So .... Doug Boothroy and John
Yapp, hi, good evening to both of you.
Evaluate the implementation of a Form Based Code in one or two parts of the community
RP # 3 Info Packet of 6/301:
Boothroy/ Doug Boothroy, uh, Director of the Department of Neighborhood and Development
Services. Tonight we're here to talk about, uh, the possible expanded use of, uh, the
form -based codes in selected areas of, uh, the community. I've... there's a memo from
John and I in your packet that, uh... talks about this, talks about some of those
neighborhoods, and um .... provides a recommendation from the staff's perspective, but
tonight we want to hear, uh, what your priorities are, uh, if you're interested, and uh,
following through with, uh... uh, this idea of using form -based codes in other parts of the
community. We already have it in place, uh, in the Riverfront Crossing area. Uh, we
have it in use, uh, in the Peninsula area, although that's primarily being, urn .... done by,
uh, private sector, but we do have some experience, uh, that you can think about.
Other... the other thing is that recently, uh.... Dan Parolek was here, uh, to talk about the
missing middle. I think that was a good way to introduce this idea of. ... of the expanded
use of the form -based code in other parts of the community. Um .... so I know a number
of you had an opportunity to, um, attend his meetings and, uh, get some information
about, uh, what I'm talking about when I say, um .... the form -based code. In the
memorandum, uh, we suggested, uh, looking at, uh, some neighborhood that, um, we
think are particularly, uh.... uh, would be .... could use the benefit of the form -based code.
Uh, the South District, of course we just finished up, uh, it's a .... a neighborhood
that's... it's.... that has great potential, uh.... uh, to expand because of the elementary
school and other things that are going on. Uh, we just did a Comprehensive Plan, as I
mentioned, uh, that, uh, talked about, uh.... uh, using the form -based code and... and
having a missing middle, uh, element, uh, for the South District area and so, uh, you
know, we're looking at following up with that. Uh, we talk about, uh... uh, the University
impact area, and there's more than one neighborhood involved there. Uh, the Northside,
uh, College Hill area, uh.... we talk about the possibility of using it downtown, and of
course recently, uh, with the Riverfront Crossing plan that, uh, it was recommended that
the downtown also be an area for the expansion of, uh, the use of form -based codes, and
of course, uh, North Market Square, uh, as another commercial area. So we .... we....
we're looking at using it in a number of different ways as we move forward in a
residential setting, in a commercial setting, uh, and we think, uh, even in neighborhoods
that have, uh.... uh.... some issues with regard to student housing, as well as, uh, how to
address historic structures and we think the form -based code can, uh, effectively, uh, deal
with all those issues. So .... I'd like to start with the recommendation briefly, and then
we'll come back to it at the end. This is a staff recommendation and .... and you may have
totally different priorities and .... but I think this is a .... a good place to start. Uh, one of
the things we feel that has to happen in order to move forward with an expanded base
application of the form -based methodology is we need to hire a form -based consultant, an
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expert in, uh, developing these things. We don't feel that we have that level of
experience and expertise on staff to do that, so we would recom... recommend hiring a
form -based, uh, code consultant. Uh.... I'm .... we're suggesting in the memo that we start
with more of a piloted approach, uh, to .... in the South District area to look at feasibility
and a concept plan, and to build on that, uh, missing middle housing concept that was in
that area. It's an area, as I mentioned that has great potential, and then we believe that,
uh.... uh, working with this, uh, we can develop a model, uh, that can le .... let us go
forward with a more, uh, long-term approach, uh, for using, uh, finishing up the South
District area, as well as applying it to other emerging neighborhoods such as Hoover and
even in the Northside, uh, to look at some of those issues. One of the things that we,
um ... also feel, uh.... very, uh, committed to is that uh, in order for this to be a success in
the South District or any other, uh.... uh, neighborhood in this community, I think
property owners have to be involved at the .... at the .... at the ground level, at the very
initial stage of the conversation. Uh, certainly the South District is a good example of
where neighbors, uh, were very actively involved in that comprehensive planning
process. Uh.... uh, it's important that, uh, they, uh, take an active role in shaping, uh,
how the form -based code might apply if they're interested in proceeding with it, and
having a say in, uh, and an involvement in crafting, uh, what those, uh.... uh, regulations,
uh, would look like, uh, as we .... uh, as we, uh, look at rolling out the form -based code. I
think that .... a recent example of the inclusionary housing where you had stakeholders
initially involved I think really, um, pays great dividend in terms of getting the
acceptability of. ... of new regulations, uh, that might be coming into an area. The other
thing that's important with working with property owners I think, uh, is that .... uh, in
some cases where you've got a new housing, uh, concepts that we want to allow without
having to go through an extensive legislative process, like a planned development, uh, I
think it's important that, uh, developers and property owners, uh, have a say and an
understanding of how they might be able to do more innovative, flexible housing, uh, like
the missing middle, uh, and uh.... in exchange for higher design standards, uh, they would
be able to do more of that type of housing by right. Um .... we're .... talking about trying
to focus our efforts initially on one effort, in one area. I think that's, uh, we see it
important from a staffing point of view. Um, we can do more, uh... than one at a time, but
I think that that would stretch out the process. We believe that if we move into the South
District or some other area and focus our .... our energy and be strategic about the use of
our, uh, existing staff resources, we can ... we can show success more quickly, and have
something in place, uh, in a sho.... in a .... a shorter time frame than if we're trying to take
on too much at one time. Uh, we believe that the, uh, efforts on ... on the pilot, as I
mentioned earlier, would be, uh, something that we could use to develop a full, uh.... um,
form -based code applicable to other neighborhoods as number 4, and then, uh, number 5
is as the budget and staff time allows, follow up on the remaining focus area. So what I'd
say about this is that I think all of these areas that we've identified, uh, need to have, uh,
a .... the approach of..of an assessment of the form -based code in those areas. Uh, and,
uh, but at the same time, we can't do `em all at once. Uh.... uh, and so we need to find
out ... uh, are you interested in proceeding, uh, can we hire a form -based code consultant,
and uh, tell us what your priorities are. Urn .... with that I'd like to turn it over to John,
and he will, uh, step through some of these neighborhoods, give you a more in-depth
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description, uh, and then we can have a conversation about, uh, where you want to go...
with ... with this idea.
Throgmorton/ (several talking) Thanks, Doug.
Yapp/ Uh, before I get into looking at each area specifically, uh, just a brief primer on what is a
form -based code. Uh, it is a land development regulation similar to a lot of our zoning
regulations, uh, but the emphasis is on the built environment, not necessarily on the
separation of land uses. Uh, there is still regulation by land use, but it is de-emphasized.
Uh, and it allows more of a mixture of land uses, uh, provided they are constructed
according to the built environment, uh, standards in the code. Uh, this is just an example
of one form -based code page, uh, to give you a flavor of it. It shows .... uh, in the upper
left-hand corner, uh, the building envelope, the setbacks. In the upper right-hand corner,
uh, what is expected by regulation, uh, for the frontage of that property, how the property
relates to the street, uh, and then down below some building placement and building form
standards. Again, so the emphasis is on the built environment regulations. The type of
land use for residential area, for example, whether it's a single-family, a duplex, a triplex,
a four-plex, that part of it would be a lot more flexible. Uh, the benefit for property
owners is that it creates that flexibility, uh, without having to pursue a planned
development process, which is a rezoning process, uh, for every structure or every
project. Um .... and the trade-off is much higher design standards, uh, for those buildings.
Uh, the South District, uh, in 2015 we adopted a new, uh, South District plan. Uh, what
this slide shows is the, uh, South District outlined in pink. Uh, approximately the
northern half of the District is .... is mostly developed. Uh, it's been developing since the
1960s. Uh, the southern half of the district is largely undeveloped, and much of it has not
yet been annexed into the city. Uh, what's shown in the red ... are areas that have not yet
been annexed into the city. Uh, and then the green star is, uh, Alexander School. Uh,
because of the, uh, decision by the School District to locate Alexander School at that
location, uh, the subsequent and related decision by the City to upgrade Sycamore Street,
uh, and the planned extension of McCollister Boulevard, uh, through this property that
would come to the north of the school, uh, we see this area as a growth and development
area, uh, in the coming years. The South District plan does have a neighborhood concept,
uh, that's shown on the slide. Uh, the chosen inter -connected street network, both east
and west of Sycamore Street, around the school, uh, the plan, South District plan, also
refers to the missing middle housing, and the goal of the .... uh.... neighborhood and the
developer and property owner input that we re ... we received, the goal of a mixed housing
type neighborhoods. Uh, the plan also refers to the fact that right now the City does not
have a good tool to implement that mixed housing type neighborhood, other than the
planned development process. Uh, and encourages, uh, the development of a form -based
code for this neighborhood. Uh, so that's why staff sees this, uh, neighborhood as the
highest priority. Uh, given the infrastructure upgrades, uh, the school location, the fact
that much of this is undeveloped. It's largely a blank canvas, uh, currently. We see this
as a great opportunity. Uh, other areas, uh, that have been discussed for implementation
of form -based code, uh, this is a graphic showing the University impact area, uh, and
those are areas that .... uh, they are residential neighborhoods within close proximity to
downtown and campus that have been, uh, heavily impacted by being so close to
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downtown and campus, both positively and negatively. Uh, I would say. Uh, the ... east
side of the river is really where we've had a lot of, uh, redevelopment proposals. Uh, one
of the, uh, complicating factors, ub, with these areas, it...it is, they are covered by a ... by a
patchwork of historic districts and conservation districts. Uh, those districts ... uh.... which
are based on a survey of those neighborhoods to make sure they qualify, uh, to be a
historic district or conservation district. The effect of that is that any demolition, any
building addition, uh, needs to be reviewed and approved by Historic Preservation staff
and Commission, uh, before they could proceed. If we proceeded with a form -based
code, uh, analysis for these neighborhoods, one of the, uh, main discussion points would
be to how, uh, balance, uh, form -based code goals with the conservation district goals.
Potentially the form -based code could either supplement or replace, uh, conservation
districts. Uh, we would not recommend that for historic districts. Uh, historic districts,
it's important that those projects be fully reviewed by the Historic Preservation
Commission, uh, before proceeding. Uh, the downtown area, uh, as Doug noted, the
downtown area was identified in the Riverfront Crossings and downtown master plan as
an area that, uh, could benefit from a form -based code. Uh, just to give you some
landmarks, this is just an aerial photo showing the area. The Pentacrest is at the north,
uh, west comer of the map. Uh, largely ... uh, fully developed, uh, but we have seen
redevelopment proposals, uh, in the downtown area that would be affected by the form -
based code. Northside Market Place, uh, similar to downtown, um .... and .... and many in
the community I think of it ... think of it as a northern extension of the downtown. Uh, the
difference is the existing zoning. Uh, the downtown is CB -10 zoning, which is our
highest density, mixed-use zoning classification. Uh, the Northside Market Place has
more, uh, what's... what we call CB -2 and CB -5 zoning, which is lower density, uh, than
what the downtown has. Uh, the issue in this area is the large percentage of surface
parking lots, uh, in the Northside Market Place, both public and private lots, and you can
see them on the aerial photo, uh, where we could have redevelopment proposals. Right
now those proposals would be considered under the existing zoning. Uh, if a form -based
code approach, uh, were implemented, those of course would be considered under the
form -based code zoning.
Throgmorton/ John, before you go on...
Yapp/ Sure!
Throgmorton/ ...could you go back to the downtown slide, please? I ... I know that Karen's been
working... Karen Howard has been working on form -based code type.... endeavors for the
area just to the....
Yapp/ To the east of, uh, Van Buren Street (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Van Buren. So .... so can you show us what specific areas?
Yapp/ Sure! It's just ... just on the, uh, east side of the map here, but it would be east of Van
Buren Street, between Iowa Avenue and Burlington Street.
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T irogmorton/ Uh, all the ... to Johnson from Van Buren?
Yapp/ Uh, not all the way to Johnson, but to the edge of the, uh, historic district, the College
Green Historic District.
Throgmorton/ Okay, so there's a form -based code effort that ... that Karen's leading, uh,
underway at the moment, right?
Yapp/ Yes, uh, Karen hosted a neighborhood meeting, uh, couple weeks ago and is preparing
a ... an amendment to bring forward to the Planning and Zoning Commission... for that area
specifically.
Throgmorton/ Thanks.
Yapp/ Uh, with that, uh, just another summary of the, uh, staff recommendations .... then we'll
open it up for discussion.
Dickens/ You have an .... initial cost of...a consultant of this magnitude.
Yapp/ Uh, we did, uh.... talk to Dan Parolek, uh, who gave us an initial cost estimate for the
initial concept plan and assessment for the South District, uh, and I ... I don't have the
memo in front of me. I think it was in the range of 25 to 35,000. For the full, uh, form -
based code implementation for the South District, Doug, do you have that memo?
Boothroy/ (unable to hear, away from mic)
Yapp/ There is some funding, uh, budgeted in the capital program currently, uh, for form -based
code.
Throgmorton/ How much?
Yapp/ It was over $100,000 (both talking)
Throgmorton/ My recollection's 125 (both talking)
Fruin/ 125 is what's in the budget, and um .... Doug's searching for that number from Dan, but
I ... I want to say that the ... the South District plan was a little bit higher than that 125....
to .... to go from start to finish, and the Northside, um .... transitional area was probably
going to be a little bit more because of the complications with the existing property.
Throgmorton/ Other questions? I mean I have a bunch but .... I'd rather hear what y'all have to
say first.
Thomas/ Well, my immediate reaction was that.... the.... the focus seems to be primarily on the
South District and I was expecting.... based on conversations with Geoff and,
urn .... um .... with other Members of Council that there would be more of a broader, um...
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broader application of the ... of the form -based code. You know, the missing middle,
which was kind of the emphasis of the public presentation by Dan, uh, when he came into
Iowa City is really an urban strategy. It's the strategy that's used where you al ... already
have, um, walkable distances to urban amenities. In other words, the .... the greater
downtown area is really where missing middle concept comes into play. Um .... the South
District, as I see it, is what would be referred to more as a walkable neighborhood form -
based code approach, where we'd be looking at not just missing middle but single-family
residences, the whole .... the whole range, and um .... would also possibly consider street
and open space standards as well, uh, to try to make it a walkable, urn .... new
neighborhood, but it's not a .... it's not a.....the South District is not within easy walking
distance of existing urban amenities. So it's kind of a different category. Um .... I'm just
concerned that in ... in the way it's presented we don't see.... there's.... there isn't any clear
sense of schedule to, urn .... to the proposal, both for the South District and .... how or....
when are we going to get to all these other areas that .... we would like to (both talking)
Boothroy/ Well when I .... when I was, um .... working on this, I did have conversations with Dan,
uh, Parolek in terms of how this would work out in terms of a work schedule. Um .... if
we were to start with a .... uh, the initial project that we talked about in the memorandum,
um, that could start this fall, uh, and would be about a six-month process. Just to do that
initial assessment and concept. Uh, the full, uh, plan would take, uh.... urn, I don't recall
what's in the memo, but I'm sure it would take another six months, uh, to complete. So,
urn .... uh, we also looked at the Northside and, uh.... uh, thought that, urn .... uh, an
assessment could be done, uh, around the same time, uh, it might be a .... it would
probably take a little longer cause we have to do a housing analysis and a parking
analysis, so it's a little more, uh, expensive. Other people would have to be involved in
coming up with those numbers and .... and inputting that information where you don't
have to do that with the South District. Um ..... so our thought was that we should get
started, uh, and we could, uh, complete, uh, certainly the one area, uh, much faster than...
than .... than the other area, which has got a lot more information that needs to be, um,
gathered, as well as probably a lot more neighborhood meetings in terms of some of the
issues that would come up. So, does that help you at all....
Thomas/ Well I ... again, I ... I'm not .... it's so .... vague, um, in terms of how .... cause I feel a sense
of urgency about this. I think it's .... it, you know, these .... these areas that are under
consideration are the areas where I would expect we could make headway on diverse,
affordable housing, and so to .... not be able to .... to look at those area seriously in terms
of implementing, uh, a plan, um, the .... the opportunities there for diverse affordable
housing, and frankly these are areas that are also under threat. You know, there's both an
opportunity and a threat in all of the areas we're talking about.
Boothroy/ Yes.
Thomas/ So to ... so to just say, well, all we have time for is the one..... urn.... means those areas
that are not being addressed in the first phase, so to speak, remain under threat, remain
subject to development which we .... we would not like. We would not serve....
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Boothroy/ And I ... you know .... I .... the message I think we're trying to convey is that, uh, we
can't do all five areas, or whatever they were — four area— at the same time. That's jut
not ... that's just logistically possible.
Thomas/ I guess I would (both talking) see a schedule.
Boothroy/ (both talking) ....uh, but we were looking at, uh, if you're interested in moving
forward, we were looking at trying to do something this fall, uh, to get started, and uh...
kind of reflecting your urgency because we do recognize that the South District, for
example, the one we recommended, uh, we need to get started on that and get started on
that soon because there's.... there's an interest in the property owners, uh, to annex.
There's an interest in the property owners to develop. Uh, and we have a capital
improvements plan that's going to be pushing some of that, uh, interest. Uh, just like
with, uh, some of the other areas that are up there, they have different challenges and
different, uh.... um .... uh, I think our assessment was that, uh, the development potential,
uh, was more immediate, uh.... uh, in that area than, uh, in some of the other areas.
Throgmorton/ Doug, I think I want to, uh, support, uh, John's general concern and put a little bit
of a different spin on it. Uh, I completely agree that the South District is very important.
It's important for all sorts of reasons, which you, uh, John's alluded to and I .... I support.
Uh, but I think we need to be more ambitious about what we can accomplish, but I also
recognize not everything can be done at once. I do think we need greater specificity over
a two-year timeframe, and I .... I don't sense that now. So what I sense right at the
moment is a .... a.....substantial degree of vagueness, especially with regard to say the
next fiscal year and what we could accomplish during that fiscal year. So I ... I think,
pretty strongly about this. I think we need to be clear about what we intend to
accomplish and to be more ambitious, recognizing there are constraints having to do with
staff time and all that.
Fruin/ Yeah, I think what, um .... one thing I'd point out is giving you a detailed schedule at this
point's pretty challenging. One, because we don't have a consultant on board that can
help us understand. We've only been through this really one time with Riverfront
Crossings, and that took multiple years to get from start to finish. Um, and I assume
when we started that we didn't know exactly how long it was going to take. The South
District's probably pretty easy to predict because you're lookin' at really a code for
greenfield development for the most part. Um, but you get into the downtown and you
get into the Northside, um, neighborhoods, and ... those public meetings and discussions
can .... can take things all sorts of different directions and, you know, you could be
looking at 12 months. You could be looking at two or three years, depending on how
those discussions really.... really go, and what the appetite is .... is to move forward, um,
with opposition in ... in the room. People may not be comfortable with what's being, uh,
proposed. So I ... I think, I really think from our standpoint there's a .... there's a couple of
options. Uh, obviously we've laid out what we think, um, gives us the best opportunity
to move quickly and .... and accomplish something, um, that will not only benefit the
South District, but will potentially benefit other districts. Um, John I believe mentioned
the new Hoover area, I mean, you could ... you could pretty much take the South District
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code the way we see it being done and really do some minor adjustments and apply it to
any other greenfield sites, and there's probably going to be some .... some, uh,
components to that code that would carry over nicely into other neighborhoods to
develop neighborhoods like the Northside. So, um, that was our top priority. I think if
you wanted to go forward and .... and be a bit more ambitious, you do the .... you do the
pilot study on both. You get ... you get started with the feasibility analysis and kind of the
inventory, um, analysis on both the Northside transitional neighborhoods, and the South,
um, District area, all at once. It's gonna take .... gonna stretch out that process a little bit
longer, but then at that point you can decide based on the neighborhood support that you
get in both districts which one to move forward with, at that time. So six months from
now, you can decide, okay, let's push forward with South .... South District or let's push
forward with Northside.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I ... I get that. I think that's pretty helpful, but I do think it would be good to
have say a two-year timeframe in mind that helps us foresee the various steps that can
and are likely to be taken, can be taken, likely to be taken and that also enables us to be
thinking about the budgeting for, uh, the additional work in the second fiscal year, uh,
which .... cause we can't do it all in the first fiscal year.
Boothroy/ Well I think one of the ways we can do that is through a request for proposal to ... to get
a feel for, uh.... you know, how we .... how the consultant would view a schedule over the
next two years and what could be done. Uh, and so we need to find out whether that's
something that you .... you're willing to look at, uh, cause it ... it's not inexpensive to, uh,
to work on these things. Um .... uh..... so, I mean, that ... that's what we need to help us in
terms of moving forward on a schedule is to be able to get somebody in here and sit down
and figure out what that would look like
Cole/ Here's what my concern is. Is that the entire theory of the missing middle, as I understand
it and I could be in .... you know, misunderstand it correctly, but.....the entire theory of it
is that it's driven by demand for a walkable proximity to the downtown inner core. And
so it's an inside -out strategy, uh, whereas we're doing just the opposite. We're going into
the edge in the undeveloped areas that are not under threat, we're not concerned with, uh,
essentially deterioration in those neighborhoods. I echo John's concerns. We have some
immediate concerns in our inner core neighborhoods regarding what type of development
we're going to see there, and what we're looking to do is to channel that robust
commercial energy and form it, as it were, directly into this sort of proposal. I don't want
to wait six, seven years to all of a sudden... what could happen in those next six or seven
years, and so my priority would be is I would rather start with like North Market Square,
University impact, start there. I think that's where the need is. Those outer districts, I
think if you were to just look at the Comprehensive Plan itself (clears throat) that is going
to provide us some good guidance in terms of the various housing types. So I would
hope we could do there, but to the extent the budget is an issue, I would rather start on the
tougher problem first, because I think that's where the real need is. Um, I think these
outer districts, that's going to be brand new development. Um, I'm confident we can,
you know, manage that in the way that we see fit. So that's my preference, is I would
like to start with the North Market Square, North Marketplace, and University impact
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zones, start there and then we can look at it, because I think those seem to be .... if we
tackle that, you know, doing the South District should be relatively, um, simpler because
we don't have the built in opposition, uh, presumably it's just some of the developers and
some of the adjacent land owners, but I don't think that's going to be as complicated
(both talking)
Throgmorton/ I don't think it's that simple, but I hear (several talking)
Mims/ I would disagree because.... here's what I think. That .... we have an opportunity in the
greenfields now. If we don't do this before that gets developed, we're gonna end up for
the most part with acres and acres of single-family homes .... on the typical streets that we
already have because a lot of the developers are not going to want to go through planned
development. They're going to take, you know, the easiest way to do it, and I'm not
being critical in saying that. I'm just saying as a business person out there doing, they're
going to do it the easiest way they can do, and go with the current zoning, and we're
gonna get, to me, exactly what we don't want more of. Acres and acres of single-family
homes. I share .... I share completely the concern about the University impact area.
That's why two years ago Matt and I went out with Stan Laverman and looked at the near
Northside and said what can we do and that's where the housing code changes came from
in terms of upkeep of houses, to try and get these rental properties in particular to have to
kind of step up their game...
Cole/ Yep.
Mims/ ....um, we .... we've talked about, we haven't done anything with the idea of ..of some
zoning changes where, you know, we could disallow people from, you know, buying two
adjacent lots and tearing down two houses and putting up a mega -structure. I mean I
think those are still....
Cole/ Concerns.
Mims/ ....those are still some things maybe we could do in the meantime.... more in a zoning
mechanism that we could get to faster, but I think when you look at .... the timeframe
necessary to do some of this in the greenfield area, and like Geoff said, to be able to
almost pick it up and set it down over by Hoover, without necessarily a lot of changes.
We could have the opportunity to really impact a lot of new development. I mean when
you look at the statistics, I think it was Dan Parolek that talked about ... what was it, by
2025 only 30% of the house... households in this country will have children in them. I
mean so...
Throgmorton/ That's a huge shift.
Mims/ Yeah, it's a huge shift coming. So why do we want to leave systems in place that simply
encourage developers to build acres upon acres of single-family homes? We have an
opportunity to make a change in that now. My concern is .... if we jump to North ... North
Marketplace and University impact area, which again, I agree are .... we need to be
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concerned about. Then we've totally lost. We've totally lost in the South District and
Hoover, because with those new schools going in, we're going to get development, and
it'll be done before we get around to making changes. So .... (several talking)
Thomas/ I'm certainly not advocating for.... deferring on the South District either. Um, and I
guess what I would say is .... and maybe it relates to the threats issues that we're talking
about. I don't.....I do not want to see anything blow up while we proceed in the South
District. So .... I think what I would .... first of all I think, as Jim said, I ... I think we need a
more, a clearer idea of what the timeframe is that we're talking about and I would add to
that that, um .... a .... a more, kind of nuanced, savvy approach where we try to identify the
threats, uh, so that we don't have things blow up. Um .... you know, and .... and perhaps
look at Northside Marketplace. The commercial area, where I have concerns about
things blowing up, not necessarily all of the Northside, but ... wherever we have identified
as potentially a .... a significant threat of something happening that we don't want to see
happen, in conjunction with the South District moving forward, within a timeframe that
we better articulate is ... is where I am.
Taylor/ Well I agree. I think certainly the South District is ripe for development of that land.
It's the opportunity there now, but I do echo John's original concern about it being
referred to as the missing middle. I do not see it as walkable to the downtown area. In
fact I don't think we have public transportation even that far out south of town, and so I
think that's something we would seriously need to consider as far as public transportation
and the emergency services going out, uh, into that South District. We would have to
look at that.
Throgmorton/ John, I think you were wanting to say something about walkability (both talking)
Yapp/ Oh, just .... just a couple points, and this is exactly the type of direction we need from you.
Um ... form -based codes are not just in urban areas. Uh, entire cities are under a form -
based code, and uh, some counties, including unincorporated areas are under form -based
codes. Uh, the example slide I showed you from a form -based code is, uh, Buford
County, uh, that their form -based code which covers, uh, their entire county, including
small villages and what they call hamlets. Urn .... the other, uh, reason which did not
come out in the memo for the focus on the South District around the new school is, uh, in
the background in our minds anyway was ... were the conversations with the School
District, and the importance of the diversity in housing within walking distance from the
new schools and how do we best achieve that. Uh, that was an important factor in our
recommendation.
Throgmorton/ I can say I've had many conversations with individual School Board members
about precisely that point.
Mims/ The other point that I would want to mention too is when you're talking about the
process, and you mentioned, urn .... the committee that you got together, the stakeholders
for inclusionary housing, I would encourage that ... the stakeholders here are not just the
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land owners and neighbors, but they include the developers, because a lot of (several
talking) Okay, good!
Yapp/ Yeah, and ... and about the timeframe, that's really.... that's really the reason some of these
things take so much time ... is building that consensus, having those meetings, uh, with all
the various stakeholders, ensuring that buy -in. Uh, but it does result in a better product.
Throgmorton/ I want to expand on that point, Susan's point a little bit. I ... I think, um, we need
to, uh, conceive of stakeholders more expansively, uh, because in the memo you really
identify what, three stakeholders. I don't know, property owners, developers, neighbors,
existing neighbors. Well there are also all the forthcoming residents, the potential
residents, the people who could move in there, and so that makes me think about the
Affordable Housing Coalition. It makes me think about the School District itself and
maybe even the ... the principal at Alexander Elementary, uh, make me think about, um...
other groups representing diverse constituencies within the city who have a stake in ... in,
uh, the quality of neighborhoods and so on. Uh, and it makes me think of the bicy... the
people in the Bicycle Coalition, you know, people .... the range of people who have
interests in how the area might develop over time and what the form -based code might
call for overtime. I ... I think we actually had that conversation back when we were
discussing the South District in the first place.
Fruin/ Maybe I can, um, in order to help.... get... get staff the direction we need to move forward,
if I could ask the Council two years from now if I told you you could have one form -
based code in place, and another one that's partially started in terms of a feasibility study,
what would be your priorities? I'm kinda hearing a consensus that, gosh in two years if
we could have a form -based code in place for the transition neighborhoods around the
downtown you'd be pretty happy, and then maybe start the .... the South District in that
same timeframe.
Throgmorton/ I don't know. We need to be clear about that because it's an important choice and
it's for us to make. Uh... um....
Mims/ I would vote for ... start with the South and be in process for.....the.... either the North
Marketplace or the University impact area. I .... I'm just afraid with Alexander opening,
they've already broken ground on Hoover, we're gonna .... that development's going to
start, and it's.... we're going to miss the opportunity I'm afraid if we don't make that our
first one.
Throgmorton/ Geoff, without losing sight of your question, I want to introduce another factor,
uh, and that is a housing market analysis. I know there's, what, 50,000 in the budget, I
think, for housing market analysis. Uh, which includes.... which would include students
and ... and that's the kind of thing I think we're gonna talk with President Harreld about,
and it seems to me it's pretty crucial to have that background information generated, uh,
in order to help us produce a high-quality, uh, form -based code for, uh, the University
impact area. So if we could get that underway.
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Fruin/ Well ... what we've contemplated as staff is that when we go out for an RFP for these
planning services that when ... when we do ask for the .... the Northside proposal, uh, that
we would include the parking and the housing study along with that, or ... or maybe put
`em a alternates on a contract, and if, you know, the person we select demonstrates the
ability to carry that out that we'd do it all together, in ... instead of having three separate
studies that may not talk to each other. Um .... likely the form -based code consultant, um,
would sub -contract a lot of that work out to a specialist in those areas, but I think it
makes sense to move, uh, all three of those at the same time. Not necessarily the code
development, but the initial inventory of the ... of the, uh, Northside area.
Throgmorton/ So if we could go back to your original question, um, can you rephrase it and
maybe blend this other material into it.
Fruin/ Well .... I think if you gave us a two-year timeframe, I think it's realistic that we could get
pretty darn close to gettin'...if not completed... near.... near completed, um, in one
particular area and start in another area, with some of the feasibility studies. So .... um...
if we do go forward on the Northside, we would look very closely at bringing in the
parking and the housing study that are articulated in your strategic plan. Uh, it's going to
lengthen that process out a little bit but .... it's going to make sense to do those all
together, and then you've got a .... you've got a natural break point in the process too.
That's why we like this two phase approach, where you do the feasibility study, the
inventory. You get the initial community feedback, and then you have an opportunity to
back away if you don't like the direction it's goin' or if the community's not pleased, um,
you could press pause without entering into a quarter million dollar contract. You know,
so you enter into that first contract for 50 or $100,000 and you .... and you leave yourself
the option to .... to pursue a second contract for the actual drafting of the code, which is
fairly labor intensive and expensive. So .... again, two years from now .... what would you
like to have done and what would you like to have started. And, you know, one thing
that we haven't talked about, it was in the slides here, is ... is the downtown district too, the
actual core of the downtown, and .... there's no way that we could tackle all three at one
time, along with some of the affordable housing initiatives and ... and the traditional plan
reviews that we have. So....
Dickens/ I guess I (clears throat) I look at doing the South District first because of the potential
of moving it over to Hoover, which is going to be coming on us quicker than we want.
Uh, getting that South District template in will make it much easier to basically do two
sections at once. We have a lot of codes and zoning and districts. We've got a lot of
historic districts, conservation districts in the north end that I think protect a lot of that
area. Not all of it, but I think .... doing that while we have the opportunity, before things
get started there, we know .... we have some known quantities in the north end, and I don't
discount that those need to be taken care of very quickly, but I think .... based on what
we're hearing from staff — how much time and how much manpower we have — that that
would be the logical place to go is start with the South and have it be a template for
another district while working on the north to protect those area that are not covered by a
district.
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Cole/ What if we did this — we essentially adopt the staff's recommendation for the south
District. We get started on that. And then with the question of the dollar figure — it
doesn't seem like we really have a firm sense of what the total dollar figure would take,
um, for doing a .... assessment of the North Market District. How long do you think it
would take us to get an actual estimate as to what that would cost, I mean, that
presumably we could get in (both talking)?
Fruin/ Yeah, we ... we have that estimate. I think with the 125 that you have budgeted, we can do
the feasibility study on both, and that gets us out six months, and during that six months
we go through another budget process, um .... so we can add more money to the budget
and ... and so if you want to do the two feasibility studies, don't worry about the dollars.
You've got those in place.
Cole/ Well I would just as soon that if we've got the dollars for the feasibility studies we get
started on both of those right away, if it's already budgeted.
Thomas/ What ... what, when you say feasibility study.
Fruin/ It's more of a .... a concept plan, uh, and then the ... on the South side, and then the North
side, you know, the consultant's likely to .... to do a block -by -block inventory of what's
there, an analysis of our existing zoning code, and what it would permit. Um, anything
else I'm leaving out, John?
Yapp/ Um, well .... I was talking to Karen, part of that initial feasibility study and assessment for
the Northside area could be identifying any current threats. Uh, in other words, areas that
are not currently covered by conservation or historic districts, uh, that do have existing
zoning that would al ... allow (clears throat) uh, redevelopment, identify those areas a little
more specifically, potentially move those up on the timeline.
Cole/ I was thinking of the metaphor of a patch. I hate to use that, but ... but that's what I'm
gonna use, that if...if there are those areas that are unprotected, we start on those first. I
don't know what people think about that. I think these are real concerns and I think we
need to make sure we address that, and as Terry points out, we already do have the
historic districts. What do other people think about that?
Mims/ I think we start with the feasabil ... feasibility studies if we've got the money to do the two,
then .... staff can always bring this back to us at any point, you know, as things are
identified, but you know, here are some areas that are under threat that maybe we should
try and move on faster than we had anticipated.
Cole/ (both talking)
Mims/ And maybe we move on them by some minor zoning code changes to do it faster than a
form -based code. (several responding)
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Fruin/ One of the things that's tricky with threats is .... um, you know, we can do an analysis to
show you what ..... the current zoning would permit on a particular parcel, but we don't
always have a whole lot of heads -up when there's a development proposal that's comin'
forward. So .... urn .... you know, someone could walk through the ... the door tomorrow
with a plan for a property that nobody really likes that we may not be able to do anything
about. So .... um, as long as we all understand that identifying those threats is just the first
step. That's going to take us .... (both talking)
Yapp/ And the threat is probably the wrong word, you know ... (both talking)
Cole/ But the ... the point being though the areas that aren't covered by either a historic or a
conservation district. I mean, that's what we're talking about (several talking) So if we
could start there, I think that'd be a good starting point and then ... in the concept of the
South District, it seems like there's agreement on that. (mumbled)
Yapp/ So I think what we're hearing is proceed with the assessment and feasibility analysis for
both, the South District and the Northside area (several responding)
Boothroy/ Are we including the North Market commercial area? (several talking)
Cole/ I would like that. What do people think (several responding) Yes.
Yapp/ Um .... okay!
Mims/ I think you guys have to figure out how much money there is, if we can get both — the
Northside, cause .... and (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Think in terms of two years also. Don't think just in terms of (several talking)
Thomas/ I would hope with further conversations with the consultants we could develop a
more ... you know, just a .... a more articulate plan where it doesn't see .... I mean, what it
feels like to me is we're just looking primarily at one place and .... deferring indefinitely
the other, and I ... I would hope we can come up with something where it's .... (mumbled)
we have our eyes on these other areas, at least the Northside and Northside Market Place,
where the greater downtown as I like to call it, and ... and I ... and making some progress on
that, and maybe it's not full-blown process, but it's.... it's progress. (several talking)
Mims/ Yeah but to .... to give credit to staff though, John, I think ... I think when you read the
memo and their recommendations, I mean, it was .... it was start with the Southside and
then it was very clear, you know, in number 5, you know, as the City budget and staff
time allows, provide follow-up with the remaining focused neighborhoods, and I think, to
me, this was staff saying `we haven't put out an RFP; we don't know for sure how long
this is going to take; we don't know for sure how much money it's going to take; we
know how much (several talking) Right, we know what we've got budgeted, but ... is this
the direction that Council wants to go, and so if this is the direction, then yeah, I would
expect that they'll.....they'll be coming back to us with more detail. I don't think .... I
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don't think staff had enough information from us .... to lay out a full-blown two-year plan
with a lot of specificity, and as Geoff said, until you start talking to these consultants and
doing your RFPs, you know, and they start looking at some of this stuff, we don't know
for sure how long some of it will take. So I think this gives us a good starting point that
we keep revisiting as .... as we get to certain landmarks on it.
Throgmorton/ And when we come to the .... to our next budget cycle, we'll have an opportunity
to think about priorities and decide whether we really want to spend a little more money
on this form -based code stuff, which I think is tremendously important, or spend it on
something else, so ... (several talking) We'll have that opportunity. And I think y'all have
gotten a substantial amount of the guidance that you were looking for.
Yapp/ I think we do, and that's why we were here, to have this conversation (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Yeah, so what have we not said that really needs to be said?
Fruin/ Well just so you know how we'll proceed from .... from here, we'll go ahead and put
together an RFP, which .... is a process in and of itself, is drafting an RFP that defines the
scope of service. Um.....
Dickens/ (both talking) ....got till Friday (laughter)
Fruin/ Yeah, right! (laughter)
Cole/ Tomorrow morning! (laughter)
Fruin/ Urn .... so, you know, I'd expect at least .... geez, at least 30 to, you know, a month or two
to develop an RFP and then get that out on the streets. It's typically another month to
month and a half to allow firms to respond, uh, with a written proposal. Then you bring
in firms for an interview. So, you know, we're looking at bringin' someone on ... mid to
late fall, urn .... do you ... do you want to have another conversation with us, before we let
that RFP hit the streets and .... and .... so you know exactly what scope we are, um, puttin'
out there?
Throgmorton/ I think we should.
Cole/ I think that'd be helpful!
Fruin/ Okay. So we'll draft an RFP and we'll try to return to you and .... uh.... perhaps the
August timeframe and just let you know, give you an opportunity to.....change our scope
a little bit if you're uncomfortable with (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ Yeah! Okay. So I guess we've done what we needed to do on this. Thanks, John.
Thank you, Doug! All right, so uh.... our next item was supposed to be reviewing, uh,
Rockne's, uh, proposal for Rose Oaks' assistance, but I .... understand that (mumbled) we
defer that for another two weeks (both talking)
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Cole/ That's correct!
Joint Meeting agenda items lIP # 4 Info Packet of 6/301:
Throgmorton/ ....next meeting. So without objection, that's what we will do, which means we
can turn to our joint meeting agenda items. Are there any particular topics that y'all think
we should address, and I'll just toss out a couple. The ... the School Board attendance
zones. Uh, and our, uh.....um.....a.... affordable housing action plan.....the..... the
second, the affordable housing action plan. We could ask Geoff to briefly discuss with
the, uh, members of the joint cities group, and the other one I think we'd ask the School
Board to brief us on where things stand.
Mims/ I think that's going to be pretty hard for them to do until the election's over (both talking)
Cole/ ....the election, yeah.
Throgmorton/ Well, you know....
Mims/ (several talking) ...they're just.....(several talking) yeah, I mean, they're just sitting,
waiting on the election. (several talking)
Cole/ ....at this point.
Mims/ I mean we can ask. I don't .... I mean if I were sitting there as Chris Lynch I'd
say .... giving me another couple days and see the results of the election. Then I might be
able to tell you something.
Throgmorton/ Yeah. Yeah, it's.....all right so could it be re -stated in some other fashion that
would be constructive? Is .... is there information we could ask ... of the School Board
members that would be relevant to what we're doin'? I'm asking myself that question
(several talking) I'm gonna see Brian tomorrow (mumbled) talk with him about this
stuff.
Cole/ Yeah, sounds good to me (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ....next meeting's on the 15 .... or 19a' I mean. Well, okay, let's set that to the side
for a second. Maybe ... maybe we won't ask for that, Marian, just for clarification here,
but we will.... brief folks about the affordable housing action plan. Any other topics...
that y'all can think of that we either want to hear other people discuss or that we should
be discussing with them?
Dickens/ I just think our affordable housing, once we present that, hopefully it will maybe turn
on some lights in the rest of the corridor. I don't think it will, but .... at least they know
where we're .... our direction is and hopefully they'll follow. (both talking)
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Cole/ Along those lines, Terry, do we want to specifically talk about the new inclusionary zoning
for Riverfront Crossings? Is that what you were mentioning? Um....
Fruin/ I can include that in my comments.
Throgmorton/ Yeah (several talking) Okay.
Cole/ And along those lines maybe the Housing First proposal that we just adopted to encourage
other cities as well or what ... what do people feel about that? (several talking)
Throgmorton/ As .... as a separate topic?
Cole/ As a separate topic.
Throgmorton/ As a separate topic, I would think. Okay, did you get that, Marian? Yeah.
Fruin/ Um .... thinking about that as a separate topic, you know, each .... each community has...
different zoning code definitions. It's going to be hard for a city necessarily to pick up
our definition and .... plug it in. I think .... I think L...I could cover that under kind of a
recent accomplishments or recent efforts, under the affordable housing action plan. If
you list it separate, there's just going to be an expec... expectation to get into details on
what that is, on what the zoning code amendments are, and .... and maybe (both talking)
Cole/ Well maybe it was more thinking of just the concept of the Housing First. I mean, I'm
sure that they're familiar with it, but... just to sort of emphasize what (several talking) on
that topic, yeah.
Fruin/ I'll cover (both talking)
Cole/ ...realizing that it won't be .... (both talking)
Throgmorton/ I would guess we'd want an update on CIT. Um...
Cole/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ ....from the County I suppose, right?
Karr/ I imagine that'll be on but we can certainly be sure it's on (several responding)
Fruin/ As ... as you have that discussion, I think.... start to think ahead to the fall and winter,
and ... and budget process and .... whether it's at these meetings or at the CIT meetings, we
need to start to get an idea on what some of the budgetary needs are for implementation.
Mims/ Large! (several talking and laughing)
Information Packet Discussion [June 23, 301:
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Throgmorton/ Any other topics? Going once.... going twice. Okay! So let's turn to the
Information Packets for, uh, the packet for June 23rd. Pretty light packet. Uh, should we
jump to June 30'h? Pretty light packet! (laughter) That's what happens when you send
the City Manager off on vacation (several talking and laughing)
Mims/ Go for another one, Geoffl (laughter)
Throgmorton/ Yeah! (laughs)
Fruin/ Sure!
Taylor/ I did .... Jim, I did have a question.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Taylor/ I think there was, uh, mention in there about the listening post and I didn't know if
we ... when we could talk about maybe how that went out at, uh, Forest View.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, uh.... Kingsley and I put together a short report, which is gonna be in our
June 19's, or the packet for the June 19dr meeting. Uh, I can tell you that there were
around 75 people present. That's my guess. I didn't try to count them, but there was a
sub... substantial number, most of them were residents of Rose Oaks. Uh, the Cole family
was present. Uh, Jeff, uh, developer Jeff Maxwell was present, uh, couple Northside
neighbors, and some of the Pretoriuses from the Peninsula Devel.... Development were
there. So .... and we met .... on, uh.... uh, a ... a shady hillside, outside of the trailer court.
Thank god because it was really pretty sunny and pretty hot, where they intended to have
us meet, and uh, I .... the.....the residents asked many, uh, significant questions, most of
which had to do with trailers, with moving trailers, cost of moving trailers, the feasibility
of moving trailers, who would do it, who would pay for it — those kinds of questions and
....I don't want to go into too much detail about this, but I would say the first two-thirds
of the meeting went quite well and the last third was much more contentious, and .... uh, I
learned a .... some important things about.....holding such meetings, uh, involving a
substantial number of people who are deeply involved emotionally and the outcome of
the meeting. Let's see, what else can I tell ya? Urn... Kingsley made a suggestion about
how we need to talk a bit about how such listening posts should be conducted, and I think
what he was getting at — I haven't had a chance to talk to him about it — I think what he
was getting at is the last third of the meeting, which became something different from
Council people engaging in conversation with ... the residents, the people who are present,
but instead became .... some contention between the owner and the residents. So ... I think
that's pretty much all I should say about that at this point, but ... uh, there'll be a report, uh,
in the next Information Packet.
Taylor/ Thank you.
Throgmorton/ Okay, should we turn to Council Time? All right, movin' on, Council Time.
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Council Time:
Thomas/ I got a ... maybe this is a place to insert this. A call from Deanna Carter. I think she
lives on Oakcrest (several talking) So ... it was another.... another instance of a resident,
uh, concerned about ... the complete streets implementation, um .... and I ... I said I would
mention it. I ... I encouraged her to write a letter and she said that she was just not able to
do that, so .... um .... I thought I would mention it. I did drive Oakcrest and .... and I would
just say the .... it reinforces for me this question of complete streets and .... that, uh, the
question of sidewalks is one aspect of that, um ..... but the other aspects relate to the
walkability, I mean, if we're really talking about putting in sidewalks, then .... the
questions I would want to ask are well what.....how walkable is that street? I mean
having a sidewalk does not necessarily equate with a walkable street. And so you have
questions of traffic speed, how's the experience of the walk in terms of its, uh, interest
and safety. Urn ... so again, I'm .... I'm really hoping when we look at the traffic calming
program and the complete streets program that we .... really try to come to grips with...
with these issues, that, um .... you know .... where is it possible to create walkability, um,
true walkability. Not simply.....making connections, which conceivably lead to walking,
but not necessarily.
Throgmorton/ I ... I take the point, John, but I notice Harry's in the back there and .... and if Harry
were speaking right now, I'm gonna channel your voice Harry, uh, he would say
something like it's not just about walkability. It's about accessibility for people with
disabilities, and ... and we .... so part of the reason for having a complete street's policy is
to enable people who are confined to wheelchairs, etc., to be able to move (both talking)
Thomas/ ....building on that for example, um .... cause the same things do apply .... you know,
you .... you make a sidewalk, you build a sidewalk, you've contributed to the accessibility
and connectivity; however, if..that experience, if you don't have a nice row of street
trees, like tonight, walking to, um, to Council, um, that can be a pretty.... unpleasant if not
public health risk situation. So .... so there .... I just want to emphasize, and I'm not .... I
don't mean to dismiss or de-emphasize or.....or leave out the question of accessibility.
Um, but to .... to add sidewalks is not the end of ..does not equate with a complete street.
Fruin/ Yeah, this .... this project, um, was actually, uh, being considered, I don't know, at least a
year or two because staff has had conversations with Miss Carter for a couple of years
now. Um, and it was actually, uh, originally just part of our typical in -fill sidewalk
program, and um, we've.... we've delayed it to a line with, uh, some.... some other work
in the area. So, this is one that, uh... you know, as we looked at ... traditionally at our in -fill
sidewalk program, obviously there's.... lots of in -fill sidewalks that could be done
throughout our city, this one is one that we identified as a top priority. Um .... and .... if...
if you're interested in .... in talking about that, um, we should probably do that, um,
perhaps even independently of the complete street's policy because this one, um, has
been identified as .... as important, irrespective of the public improvements that are
happening in that area.
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Throgmorton/ Simon and I talked about this last week....one of the things we talked about was
who pays for the sidewalk, and in this case it's paid for by City government (both
talking)
Andrew/ Correct. It's general obligation bonds is what funds the sidewalk (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Then the long-term maintenance is the property owner's responsibility (both
talking)
Andrew/ Correct.
Throgmorton/ ...just as it is for any sidewalk, right?
Andrew/ Correct.
Throgmorton/ So I think part of her particular concern was her, um .... uh, own sense of an
inability to maintain the sidewalk over time, and that's ... she's not alone, I mean, there are
fair .... you know, substantial number of people (laughs) uh, in that kind of situation. So,
do we have .... uh.... a.....a.....a means of assisting financially particular property owners
who cannot afford to maintain their sidewalks? I don't know if we do or not, I'm just
asking.
Andrew/ There has been a project in the past, and this predates my time with the City. I'd have
to do a little research into how it worked, but using CDBG funds, that there was a grant
program for low to moderate -income families that couldn't afford to do the .... the project
that was required for their sidewalk in front of their house. So .... we can look at other,
you know, similar to what we have with the help program with, uh, the exterior
improvements that we've recently required that, um, provides some relief for that. That's
something we could talk about going forward. There's not a program currently in place
for that. And I am pulling together some information on the ... based on, uh, Miss Carter's
concerns. Uh, I had a lengthy conversation with her myself and it's really two sets of
issues that you've alluded to. You know there's the, um, opposition to a sidewalk being
installed period, and then issues that arise with maintenance, if it is installed, so we'll pull
together all that information. I'm still looking into, um, what transpired in previous years
with this project, but uh, we'll have all that information to you in an upcoming packet.
Fruin/ One of the things I think, um .... that bumped this area up, uh, on the list is .... uh, that, uh,
Horn Elementary is accessible off of Oakcrest. Now it's .... Horn accesses a .... Oakcrest,
that's a few blocks, um, to the west here, but after, um, Roosevelt was closed, that ... that
neighborhood, which was pretty close there to .... to Roosevelt now shifted over to Horn,
and you can walk down Oakcrest and access, um, Horn through... through the back.
They've got a little sidewalk easement that goes through there. So when we look at our
in -fill projects we look at proximity to schools as one of the factors and that's why, one
of the reasons why Oakcrest rose to the top.
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Throgmorton/ Other Council Time material? Uh, I guess I want to mention a few items. I did a
downtown garden walk with Linda Schreiber.... several days ago. Uh, and that was pretty
enlightening. I don't know, like 20 people walkin' along with us for a while. Uh, but
one of the things, one of the points that Linda and others made very strongly was that we
need, City government needs to have to establish some rules and, uh.... cap ... capacities
with regard to, uh, providing sights for dogs to relieve themselves. And any dog owner
knows exactly what that means. The moment you let the dog out, it has to go to the
bathroom. So for anybody who owns a dog downtown, what that means is .... they .... they
use the ... the, uh, planters and so that's what Linda was drawing my attention to. Uh,
dogs relieving themselves are ruining plants (laughs) and uh, so ... so she was suggesting
two things. One that we .... we have some way ... uh, what do you call it? Wayfaring
signs, indicating to people where they can take their dog and then secondly that for any,
at least for any future mixed-use developments or residential developments downtown
that they be required to provide a facility for dogs .... within the development. So
anyhow, that ... I wanted to mention that and so you all know. Uh.... I did a Mayor's
Walk, uh, another Mayor's Walk on ... on the same day as the listening post and I went
through the Peninsula, part of the Peninsula development and along Foster Road, and
heard nothing but good news from people about, uh, their neighborhood. I mean I always
ask `how things going in the neighborhood,' and uh, yeah, just rave reviews. Uh, and I
guess the last thing I'll mention is that Geoff and I are going to meet with President
Harreld on, uh, next.... Tuesday (both talking)
Fruin/ Tuesday.
Throgmorton/ Next Tuesday, and uh, as far as I know the main topics are ..... uh, off -campus
demand for student housing and redevelopment of the Riverfront Crossings District. You
know, we'll have to talk about that tomorrow. Can y'all think of anything else that really
should be on that (both talking)
Cole/ Well I was going to say with that conversation, it's my understanding that at one point the
University was on the UniverCity program, um, they are not anymore; so if you could
explore that with him I think that'd be great. Um, cause....
Mims/ That came out of the Regents.
Cole/ That came out of the Regents? Well, but even just communicated (mumbled) hopefully as
some sway. Um .... so.....
Dickens/ (mumbled) (laughter)
Cole/ He might as well, what the heck! (laughter) But I think that seems to me with all the
issues you've had with housing to really get that University partnership because of course
funding is a big issue for us in terms of being able to expand that program. So .... that'd
be my two cents.
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Thomas/ I would add the, and I know you and I have talked about this, the ... you know I wrote,
and Geoff mentioned it at one of our .... our meetings, the .... uh, the riverwalk concept,
you know, it's something I've written on and, um .... you know, exploring the idea of....
well, now that Hancher is almost completed, the compellingness of that as a destination,
uh, is ... is becoming much clearer. So, if we were to do a riverwalk, it would entail
involvement with the University. That's.... that's their land on the west side of the river.
Throgmorton/ Yeah. Good point. I see Geoff s starting so ... good deal. Anything else? Okay.
Meeting schedule.
Meeting Schedule:
Throgmorton/ Joint cities on the 18s' ... in Coralville. Marian, is there anything else that you
know of?
Karr/ No, not that I'm aware of.
Mims/ MPOs not too far out.
Dickens/ Week from Wed .... no, two weeks from Wednesday.
Mims/ It's the 13"i. It's next Wednesday.
Dickens/ The next Wednesday? Yeah, it's next Wednesday.
Mims/ MPOs next Wednesday.
Throgmorton/ Oh, right, I wouldn't have that written down, right. Is there anything on the MPO
agenda that, uh, we should be aware of?
Mims/ Haven't seen it yet.
Throgmorton/ Fair enough (laughs)
Dickens/ No! (laughter)
Cole/ One thing I wondered is maybe .... maybe we'll see this on the agenda once it comes out,
but I did see the proposal for .... was it, Interstate 80 from what, West Branch to Iowa City
(mumbled) read about that in the paper. Um, but I don't know if that would be on the
agenda at all or that would be something on the radar screen.
Dickens/ She usually comes to the meetings, the DOT person.
Cole/ Okay, so maybe we can explore that with her, cause they're talking about widening it.
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Fruin/ Yeah, it's a State project. I think we could submit comments, but that's a ... that's about it,
and that's east of Iowa City (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Two more lanes, right?
Karr/ Yeah, and that .... that notice is in your June 300' packet.
Throgmorton/ Okay, moving on. Pending work session topics.
Pending Work Session Topics lIP # 5 Info Packet of 6/301:
Throgmorton/ I noticed, I don't know — either Geoff or Marian or somebody condensed the list
because we have actually worked our way through many of the items. So, thanks for
doing that, and .... any other items to put on the agenda? You know, since we're kinda
making it too short now.
Mims/ No! (laughter)
Fruin/ Um, we do hope to return to you in August and ... and I don't think this would take a
whole, uh, work session, but the traffic calming review. If you recall, we were going tc
come back to you with some revised guidelines, and you've seen some correspondence
from.... different neighborhoods, um, seeking traffic calming relief. So we want to get
back to you pretty soon here so we can help those neighborhoods out.
Throgmorton/ Most recently about, what Kimball Road or....
Mims/ Ridge Road.
Throgmorton/ Ridge Road.
Fruin/ Ridge Road and then we had, uh, Windsor Ridge Homeowner's Association, right, with
some concerns there.
Mims/ Geoff, will there, and I don't want to get off on a topic that we shouldn't, you know, be
talking about here, but .... is staff looking at .... some temporary things.....because of
Gateway, like for Ridge Road, that could potentially be done without going through the
full traffic calming process?
Fruin/ Yeah, if there's .... if there's somethin' related to the project there, that's... that's causing,
um, some problems, we....we won't .... we won't delay the process.
Mims/ (both talking) Okay. Good.
Cole/ And I'm still hearin' a lot of, or along those lines, a lot of feedback about the Horace
Mann issue with Dodge Street, so could you cover ... is there anything that we can do that
doesn't require, um, State approval, like for example I was thinking flashing lights there,
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similar to Horn, um, lot of people continue to express, uh, concerns about that, so I know
it's a State issue but (both talking)
Frain/ ...back to you on that situation (both talking)
Cole/ That'd be great!
Dickens/ ...the next two years.
Cole/ Yeah!
Throgmorton/ Okay, anything else on that? Upcoming community events, Council invitations.
Upcoming Community Events/Council Invitations:
Throgmorton/ I want to mention one thing. The Animal Shelter .... is gonna give us a big check, I
mean the Friends of the Animal Shelter are going to give us a big check on .... July 14 at
5:30 P.M. at the Animal Shelter, right? So I think anybody who wants to show up should
show up, and I guess.....
Karr/ We'll have more information in your packet too.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, uh, Liz Ford is very excited and very pleased to be able to do that.
They ... they, uh, Jake, they volunteer.... Friends volunteered to make a major contribution
through fundraising, and they were able to do it.
Andrew/ Ahead of schedule!
Throgmorton/ Yeah. Anything else?
Cole/ I have an invitation from the Sudanese Development Association to celebrate the end of
Ramadan, um, at the Coralville Radisson, uh, Friday, July 8a', at 7:00. Um, everyone's
invited, and evidently it's going to go through 2:00 in the morning, so I said I probably
wouldn't be there that long, um (laughter) so that invitations extended, and it's the First
Avenue .... I think it's 1220 First Avenue, uh, at the Radisson.
Throgmorton/ I don't know who else can go. I ... I cannot cause I'll be out of town, but if you're
the only person there, would you....
Cole/ I'll extend .... yes. I certainly will.
Throgmorton/ All right. Anything else we need to cover? I think the answer's no.
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