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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2016-11-01 TranscriptionPage 1 Council Present: Botchway, Cole, Dickens, Mims, Taylor, Thomas, Throgmorton Staff Present: Fruin, Dilkes, Karr, Andrew, Yapp, Howard, Bockenstedt, Boothroy, O'Brien, Rummel, Havel, Ford, Knoche, Nations, Ralston Others Present: Simpson (UISG) Discuss North District Plan goals for the N. Dubuque St. / Peninsula area [IP # 3 of 10/27 packet]: Throgmorton/ Okay, well let's begin the City Council's work session for Tuesday, November the I". First topic is to discuss the North District Plan's goals for the North Dubuque Street/Peninsula area, and I think I see John Yapp out there. Hi, John! Yapp/ Good evening, uh, Mayor and Council Members. Uh, just give me a second to pull up the, uh, imagery. Throgmorton/ While you're doing that, I wonder if I could ask the Council Members if anybody needs to pull an agenda item off of the formal meeting agenda. I know that Terry does, for one item. Okay, good deal. Thank you. Yapp/ Okay, I'll start. Uh.... we wanted to give the Council an overview of the, uh, existing Comprehensive Plan goals, uh, as well as some Strategic Plan goals that affect, uh, the North District. Uh, there has been some, uh, general community conversation about potential redevelopment, uh, of this area, west of Dubuque Street, south of Interstate 80, uh, and we anticipate an application, uh, very soon. Uh, the development team has scheduled good neighbor meetings, uh, with both, uh, directly affected neighborhoods and with surrounding neighborhoods, uh, on November 131'. Uh, as such, we wanted to describe some of the existing Comprehensive Plan goals and Strategic Plan goals. With .... with tonight's discussion, uh, the goal is not to get into any specific development prop.... proposal. Uh, we do not yet have an application, uh, before us. Uh, the goal is to outline and discuss general policy goals, and this also provides you with the opportunity to comment on the existing Comp Plan and Strategic Plan goals and will help inform the anticipated, uh, application. First to describe, uh, the North District. Uh, the North District Plan was adopted in 2001. The, uh, south side of the district is bounded by the Highway 1, Dodge Street corridor, uh, and the Iowa River. Uh, and then the north side is bounded by Interstate 80. Uh, as you can see, the yellow color is .... is largely single- family residential and .... and in a few locations on the east side of the district. Also areas of, uh, wooded topography, uh, throughout the district. Uh, and then the orange color indicates, uh, what's called conservation design, or clustering design, uh, where density can be clustered in order to protect, uh, sensitive environmental areas, and I'll comment on that in a little more detail. Uh, zooming in on the area south of Interstate 80 and west of Dubuque Street, uh, the land use plan, uh, identifies, uh, the brown areas as multi- family. Uh, the wooded areas are of course woodlands. The orange areas is conservation This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 2 or clustered, uh, design. Uh, and the yellow is .... would be largely single-family. Uh, this is the existing land use plan for the area. Uh, land use plans are illustrative, uh, they're not regulatory. Uh, but they do help show the intent of future development, uh, in the area. Some of the, uh, policy goals in the North District Plan. Uh, number one, affordable housing. Uh, the plan states that if the mobile home park redevelops in the future, consideration should be given to securing relocation assistance for the current residents of the park. Uh, staff has consistently reinforced this goal with the owner and the development team. Uh, number two, sensitive environmental areas. Uh, the North District Plan states that as infrastructure improvements open up this area for new development, protection of environmental sensitive areas will become more of a concern. Uh, then it further says promoting conservation design by clustering the development away from the headedly.... heavily wooded ravines will protect the wildlife corridors, preserve the tree canopy, prevent erosion of steep slopes, and reduce storm water run-off. From a regulatory perspective, uh, the City has a sensitive areas ordinance, uh, that provides the regulatory framework for regulating these types of sensitive areas. Uh, some of the .... this is an aerial photo and you can see much of the area is wooded, uh, with some evidence of some very mature, uh, woodlands on parts of the property. Uh, there are also some identified wetlands on the property, in approximately this area where.... where my mouse is. And in the, uh, ravine between Dubuque Street and Laura Drive. Uh, my next slide shows the, uh, contours or the topography of the area, so there are some steep slopes and ravines on the, uh, western part of the slide, uh, on the north side of Foster Road, and the area in between Dubuque Street and Laura Drive, uh, some steep topography. There are also some relatively flat, uh, parcels of land, particularly, uh, south of Interstate 80, uh... there's a ... a corridor there that is relatively flat compared to the remainder of the .... the area. Uh, Dubuque Street entranceway. This is another policy goal in the North District Plan. Uh, it is a policy in the Comprehensive Plan to create and maintain attractive entrances to Iowa City. Dubuque Street has long been recognized for its scenic character, views of the Iowa River, and woodlands and open space transitioning into the Northside Neighborhood. Discouraging changes in land use that might result in the degradation of the scenic qualities of the corridor will also protect the Dubuque Street corridor. And I'll come back to this .... this policy statement when we get into the, uh, Strategic Plan goals. Uh, Interstate 80 buffer. Uh, the North .... North District Plan states preserving and enhancing a wooded open space buffer between residential development and Interstate 80 should also be a key element of any future plans to develop or upgrade housing in the area. Uh, some of the concept plans that we've seen for this larger property which were .... were made public, uh, show .... uh, residential development, uh, encroaching into that 300 -foot buffer, uh, from Interstate 80. The current City code requires a 300 -foot, uh, buffer. Uh, we have had, uh, inquiries about whether the City would, uh, amend the code to reduce that buffer in exchange for things like sound- proofed buildings, enhanced landscaping in the remaining buffer, uh, those types of things. Uh, so that is something that will be considered when we have an application. Some additional factors, uh, on the land use map the larger Peninsula area .... is shown as residential. Uh, primarily with, uh, RS -5, single-family residential and interim development residential, also with some areas of multi -family zoning. Uh, it also shows commercial development being encouraged in the Dodge Street, Highway 1 corridor. Uh, not on the Dubuque Street corridor. Uh, if we have an application for commercial This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 3 development on the Dubuque Street corridor, how that relates with the, uh.... goals to preserve the scenic qualities of the corridor, uh, will be part of the evaluation, part ... part of the discussion... what types of methods can be used to preserve the scenic qualities of the corridor if commercial development is desirable, uh, those types of questions. Many of the questions I'm saying tonight are rhetorical. Uh, but if you have any questions for me, feel free to, uh, interrupt. Uh, and again, conservation design is encouraged in the area north of Foster Road, particularly in those areas of steep topography. Okay, Strategic Plan goals. We .... we looked through your, uh, Strategic Plan and identified some goals that would pertain to any redevelopment of this area. Uh, number one, proactively seek opportunities to facilitate development of our interstate entranceways, in a manner consistent with the Strategic Plan. Uh, so that's another factor that, uh.... overlaps with the goal of preserving the scenic qualities of the Dubuque Street, uh, corridor. Putting the .... the scenic qualities of the corridor goal side by side with this goal would lead staff to.....uh, be open to opportunities to facilitate development of the entranceway, in a manner that does not degrade the scenic qualities of the corridor. Uh, those are the types of, uh, conversations we have and analysis we have when we put these different policy goals together. Uh, number two, encourage diverse housing types and price points for a variety of income levels. Uh, I think that one plays right into the goal to preserve affordable housing, uh, as well as other types of housing, uh, in the area. Number three, promote neighborhood commercial districts. Uh, there may be an opportunity to create a neighborhood opp ... commercial district, uh, in this area. Uh, some of the, uh... concerns we've heard from some Peninsula residents, for example, uh, they have very few commercial destinations to walk to, unless they walk across the river into Coralville. Uh, it goes on to say build stronger relations with business owners throughout the community. Uh, how would a .... a commercial area, uh, in this area, uh, achieve that goal, and .... and to answer that question, we .... we will have more conversations with the applicants, uh, once an application is forwarded. Uh, number four. Significantly improve the ability of Council and staff to engage with diverse populations on complex or controversial projects. Uh, some of that communication has occurred, uh, through the City Council listening posts, uh, at the Forest View community. Uh, staff has met several times with the development team and representatives, uh, from the neighborhood. Uh, I'll be attending another meeting this Saturday with, uh, Center for Worker Justice and representatives from the neighborhood. And .... uh, staff learned today that, uh, the development team has already scheduled good neighbor meetings, uh, on November 13th with affected and surrounding neighborhoods, uh, in the larger Peninsula area, and we'll have staff attend those meetings as well. Uh, one thing that staff has discussed and that we recommend is that the development team also schedules a good neighbor meeting with groups interested in other aspects of this redevelopment. Uh, such as the Dubuque Street Corridor; Project Green has .... has significantly invested in the corridor over the years. Uh, other commercial interests, such as downtown interests and that this corridor is the main feeder into the downtown from Interstate 80. Uh, environmental advocates, because of the sensitive environmental features on the property, uh, etc. That's all I have for tonight, but I'm happy to have any questions or discussion from Council. Thomas/ John .... John, how many acres is the, um .... land under consideration? This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 4 Yapp/ I don't have that off the top of my head. 55 acres. Throgmorton/ Uh, can .... there's been a considerable amount of development in the North District, at least with regard to the Peninsula... Yapp/ Yes! Throgmorton/ Yeah, could you go to that land use map and give us a hint about what's actually changed from 2001 to the present? Yapp/ Yeah, in 2001 this was shown as a .... as a confer.... conservation design, uh, area. You can see some of the street layout ... much of which was ... the existing street layout is fairly consistent with that, but a little larger than .... than what's on the land use map. Uh, the entire.... Peninsula area, which includes much of the open space, uh, is at a single-family density. What they've done is cluster that density, uh, into the built development portion of the Peninsula, which includes single-family, townhouse, duplexes, uh, small apartment buildings, but all, including the open space, all at a single-family density. Throgmorton/ But with regard to the .... to the Peninsula... Peninsula, I think there are somewhere around 350 households out there. Does that sound right? Yapp/ That sounds about right, yes. Throgmorton/ Yeah, so the land use plan for 2001 ... did it anticipate basically 350 or thereabouts households? Yapp/ I can't answer that ... at this point. Throgmorton/ It kinda looks like it because the plan's laid out there and I know the.... Yapp/ I would say it looks generally consistent, yeah. Throgmorton/ Okay. Have there been any ... any other significant changes in that.... Yapp/ Um, the Mackinaw Village, uh, development, the land use plan shows a .... a curved, linear street with clustered development, uh, along it. Mackinaw Village developed, uh, partly in a more traditional, conventional subdivision style, uh, at least for the western part of Mackinaw Village, and then the eastern part of Mackinaw Village does have .... (coughing) Excuse me! Higher density townhouses, uh.... that development also took advantage of the ability to, uh, cluster density from open space, and in the case of Mackinaw Village, it was open space along the river, uh, and cluster it into the higher density townhouses and duplexes they incorporated into their .... into their development. Those are the two significant changes.... since the 2001 plan. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 5 Throgmorton/ So does anybody else have any questions? I'll .... I'll bet some more'll come up here but let's give ourselves a few minutes. Fruin/ You know, again our .... our hope tonight is ... is kind of two -fold. One, we want to introduce the .... the plan to you, um, and make sure that .... that if you have any questions, uh, we can try to answer those or offer any clarifications to you. Um, but also give you a chance to reinforce any of the, uh, items that you .... that you heard or if you frankly maybe disagree with some of the .... the content of the plan, this, you know, um, you .... you could mention that too, but we're trying to ...... um, guide, uh, provide some guidance to the applicant before they get into this. This isn't a very traditional process, us....us coming to a ... you in a work session, but ... um, it is a fairly complex, uh, project here, and we wanted to give you this opportunity. The second purpose is ... is for you to really be able to comment on some of those strategic plan goals, um, if you feel the need to. You have the one, um, goal up there that's.... that's first is .... facilitating development of our interstate entranceways in a manner consistent with the Strategic Plan. The Council really as a group, after setting that, uh, priority hasn't had a chance to discuss really what that means to you, so this, again, would be an opportunity for you to, uh, focus in on that strategic plan objective, and help guide the, uh, applicant and the staff as we start this process. Mims/ I think for me as we look at that, I mean, it's one of the things that we've talked about for quite a while is, you know, we really have not utilized, um, our interstate entryways, um, into this community. At the same time, I'm not real interested in having our entryways look like every other entryway as you drive from California to New York on Interstate 80 either. And I think we have, um, have a real opportunity with the topography here and, um, the woodland and what's already there to see this developed in a way that is, um, a good economic development project, um, for the community, uh, which means, you know, more businesses, commercial in, you know, mixed in with residential. We've talked a lot about mixed use neighborhood, um, increasing the tax base, and I think when you look at the other pieces here, either under the Strategic Plan or the policy goals, um, from the Northside, personally I'm supportive of all of those. I mean, I think we've talked.... there's a .... there's a large residential community there, and it's important that, you know, good plans are put in place for the relocation of the residents. Hopefully, um, for all of them that want to stay in the area, right in that same area. Um, I think we've done a really good job out in that area already in terms of the environmental aspects, in terms of allowing for clustered housing, so that, you know, the overall density isn't exceedingly high, um, in some areas it might feel like it, but we're .... we're able to get that higher density, um, in specialized areas so that we can protect the woodlands and the steep slopes, and as Geoff mentioned, you know, we've got a sensitive slopes ordinance already that will, you know, that will have to be dealt with. Um, the other piece for me, and I .... and I'm sure the developers hopefully are already looking at this and thinking about it is .... you know, when you don't want this to look like every other, uh, exit off from Interstate 80, you know, while there might be some amenities that they want there that are kind of typical of interstate exits, um, hopefully the design and landscaping, etc., are of a quality that really enhance this, um, I think it's really important as one of two key entryways into Iowa City from the north and certainly, uh, probably the main one coming This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 6 for downtown and the University, that we really take that into account, and I think we did that with the Gateway project, you know, being willing to spend a little bit more on the Park Road bridge, to have something that's a little more aesthetically pleasing, uh, really taking into account some of the landscaping and stuff along, uh, Dubuque Street, and so I think it's really important as the developers, you know, put this plan together that those, um, aspects are part of it as well. Taylor/ I think you raise a good point there, Susan. We have invested a lot of money into the Gateway project and .... and this Dubuque Street area is going to be an entrance right into that and so it'd be like, you know, doin' somethin' cheap.... instead of something that goes along with the more expensive route, you know, we need to have something that's going to blend in with that project that we've spent a lot of time and money on. Mims/ Needs to be aesthetically pleasing. Taylor/ Right, exactly (both talking) Throgmorton/ Well, I completely agree with Susan on the point about the woodlands and making sure that, uh, the .... the scenic quality of the entryway is preserved, that enough woodland is preserved, so it's .... the development does not appear to be some.....typical.... interstate kinda development. Totally agree with those things. Uh, I'd like to introduce a few other points, uh, the plan is 15 -years -old, and our city's changed demographically quite a bit in the last 15 years. So I would think .... we should at least have that in mind as we're, uh, considering what to do with that development. And .... the affordable housing component of our Strategic Plan is relevant, uh, to this development, I would think as well. So the... the ambition to develop goals and, you know, achieve those goals and that kind of thing with regard to affordable housing. I think that... that's a key part of this as well. Botchway/ Yeah, that was.... actually my first point. Um ... you know, in thinking about how.... development team and, you know, the City and the community kind of works together in this, you know, making sure that .... that piece around the relocation assistance and really looking at significantly improve the ability of Council and staff to engage with diverse populations on complex or controversial projects, and so I know that obviously staff is participating in that good neighbor meeting, but again, I think that applies to the developer as well, ensuring that, you know, the communication, urn .... is air -tight, you know. There's.... there's communication going out, it's clear communication, um, it speaks to the interests of the particular populations, especially and when you're talking about relocation, and so, you know, that's a piece, um, that I would really want to make sure is, um, addressed in a meaningful way. I mean, especially coming back to Council. The other pieces I think folks alluded to, um, I mean, again, me kind of using my John or, uh... um, I was thinking about the trees and ensuring that, you know, again, as everybody kind of talked about before that we have .... um, a different type of intersection, um, in this particular place. I think you mentioned briefly about the buffer and some conversations on whether or not that could be modified a little bit and .... and I wouldn't necessarily be in ... in time or in line with that at all. I think that, you know, the buffer's there for a .... a good reason, and so, you know, maybe thinking creatively of how to still This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 7 keep that buffer, but still make something that is, uh, aesthetically pleasing as important. Um, the other piece, uh, I think that, again, kind of focusing on the Strategic Plan points, about promoting neighborhood commercial districts, um, you know, I .... I think there's.... there is an ... there is an idea. I think, Susan, you talked about this as well, as far as what interstate things usually are there. You know, you may have hotels, you know, whatever, gas stations, whatever the case may be, and I .... I'm .... I'm thinking there .... based on the residents living in that particular neighborhood, there is a need for that, there's a desire for that, but you know, when developing it, I think that there needs to be some mindfulness of how that is portrayed as well, and so when we think about aesthetically pleasing as well, how that, you know, encompasses, you know, the entire landscape of what, you know, the woodland area and other things along those lines, and I'm just thinking of, you know, thinking of Seattle and like places along those lines that, you know, have a lot of trees so to speak, more Portland than Seattle, but you know what I mean, and so um .... I .... I just don't want to see, you know, large, huge buildings. I know that .... that may be attractive for the fact that people are, you know, driving, um, down 80, um, and want ... you know, it's kind of an advertisement from that perspective, but I also want to be in keeping with the neighborhood and that kind of walkability piece. And.... that's it! For right now. Dickens/ I agree with most everything that's been said. Also the safety factor with adding an extra alternative exit out of that area, because with the last flood, Foster Road was under water and there's no way to get emergency vehicles back in there, so that component needs to be very important, that we can connect the other areas. So we do have a second.... we've been talkin' about how we were gonna do it, and I think this plan, depending on what they come with, that it....it needs to have that component in there, that offers another way out of the Peninsula area. Throgmorton/ Yeah, and .... if I'm right, John, the land use plan from 2001 incorporates, what, an extension of Laura Drive? That bends around? Through the project? Yapp/ It does. Uh.... oops! Throgmorton/ Yeah, so what you're sayin' be ... would be consistent with that. Yapp/ Yeah, right .... this road here, and then back down through Mackinaw Village. Cole/ John, I understand that this is not regulatory and just sort of a set of principles, but .... at some point we may have a zoning application in front of us. Is there any part of this particular plan that would be inconsistent, uh, with the proposed development? I mean I know earlier you said you didn't want us to bring up a specific development, but it seems like we have discussed it (both talking) Yapp/ Yeah, we don't have a .... application in front of us right now (both talking) Cole/ But we've talked about (both talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 8 Yapp/ We've seen a concept plan. Cole/ Okay! Yapp/ Uh, and yes, there are parts of that concept plan that are inconsistent with the current land use plan. So I think part of why the, uh, development team is having the, uh, good neighbor meetings is in anticipation of applying for a Comprehensive Plan amendment. Cole/ Okay. Yapp/ For (both talking) Cole/ So what would the most prominent parts that are inconsistent, if it's.... relative short (both talking) Yapp/ ....commercial development, uh, along Dubuque Street and south of Interstate 80. Uh, that is not anticipated in this plan at all, uh, so I think that ... that would be the largest inconsistency. Cole/ Okay. Yapp/ Um .... and depending on .... the rest of it, I ... I .... it depends on more the nuances of... Cole/ That's fine (both talking) Yapp/ Yeah. Cole/ And I guess .... in terms of the Strategic Plan goals, and .... and staff bringin' this before us, I think first of all, Geoff, you had mentioned that's not as typically done, but .... at least from my perspective I really welcome it. Um, I think that's helpful for development, that if there's any uncertainty in terms of where Council is, my preference is that it, you know, when .... when developers want to they can bring so we can weigh in, and I think in terms of engaging diverse populations, um, we haven't heard anything about this development for a while, and I think that's a good thing, um, I've heard a lot of good news on both sides. It looks like there's, um, the developers are really being pro -active, and I think (both talking) Yapp/ There have been, yeah (both talking) Cole/ ...very encouraging and (both talking) Yapp/ That's our ... that's our impression also. Cole/ So from what I've seen, I have no concerns with at least what we're seeing so far. Yapp/ Okay, thank you. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 9 Throgmorton/ I .... I've heard some concerns about the density of what's being talked about so far, in .... in terms of, you know, the concepts for development out there. Yapp/ Uh huh. Throgmorton/ Uh, does staff have any concerns about.....about that density? Yapp/ I .... I, since we don't have an application, my understanding is that some of it is changing. I can't answer that at this point. Frain/ I think what, you know, the key question when it comes to density, we know there's going to be clustering. The clustering's anticipated in the plan. Um, but with the, uh, with the... the relocation plan that's being talked about and which, um, as far as we understand, the residents of the .... the Forest View, uh, park area will still be able to stay in this development, um, so you're gonna have a large part of the redevelopment land committed, um, to .... to that relocation, uh, project, and again, the clustering, you're... it's likely that there's going to be some significant density requested, and, um, I think staff's been open to that, but also, urn .... uh, cognizant of how that density transitions into the existing land uses, and we have some single-family areas, um, around the property, around to the west, and then as John mentioned earlier, how that density, um, interacts with the interstate and whether, um, it can be done within that 300 -foot buffer or if we need to look at a code amendment, um, to perhaps, urn .... adjust that in a way that, um, may be better off for the entire project, you know, eating into that buffer a little bit, it's .... it's hard to say, uh, cause we haven't seen the development, but it...it could be that that's a better solution that provides, um, the developer an ability to .... to transition into those other neighborhoods in a more appropriate manner, but.....Mayor, I do think that density's gonna be a .... a question throughout this process. Tbrogmorton/ Yeah, so I was just thinking about parks, in .... in relation to density. So I'm thinkin' about residents who live or will live out there, and about how .... assuming they have children, they'd like to have, uh, immediate access to some... some small, at least pocket park of some kind, and then, uh, I'm fully aware that the water plant park is just north of the interstate and the Peninsula.... dog park area, uh, south of the Peninsula development, is, you know, not terribly far away, but it'd be important to have connections, I would think, um, I'm thinking especially about bike connections, but ... but the main thing is some kind of small neighborhood park within .... the development, assuming residents will be living in that area, and I assume that's right. Yapp/ I hear ya. I just wanted to mention the ... the big blue line is a, uh, gas pipeline through, that runs through the city. Uh, that, uh, pipeline easement cannot be developed, uh, so that does create an opportunity for perhaps a walking corridor. Uh.... Thomas/ When I was looking at the, um, and it was kind of interesting seeing that North District Plan because the, urn .... I myself before looking at it hadn't appreciated how much natural area there ... there is in the North District and the, urn .... the site itself is a really This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 10 good example of that. So, my hope in this project is that it ..... conceivably could be something that, um, might attract national attention. I think we've already set a very good standard, uh, for the project with the way we've.... we've, the community and.....and the developer, and staff, have been working with the, um .... Forest V .... Forest View residents in terms of, um, making sure that that community, that neighborhood is .... is retained on the site. So I think that's an excellent start. Uh.... some other comments that I had just on a variety of topics would be, uh, how can we use that woodland character to ... to, you now, we clearly need at our front door into Iowa City to, um .... preserve that character, which I think we all identify as an important defining element to Iowa City as a whole, uh, but I would say that that woodland character, I would .... I would like to see that inform the .... the site plan as a whole, um, both in terms of the development of the interior. We've talked about perimeter conditions. Uh, but I would also add streetscape and open space. Jim, you mentioned the idea of open space. You know, this is ... this is a large area we're talking about, with a .... a significant number of residents who will be there. Um, what that brought to my mind, and I always like thinking in terms of precedent, or .... case studies that .... that might be applicable, one that came to my mind that I've seen first-hand is Tapiola in Finland. It's a .... a development that's outside Helsinki, uh, that was developed in an existing pine forest, uh, in the 1950s. Um, and it.....if you look at that plan and it's larger than our 55 acres, but there is significant density on that site, but what.... what I think was achieved there was through integration with the existing woodland, an opportunity to, uh.... nevertheless preserve that sense of woodland effect with .... with the density inter -penetrating that woodland character. Uh, so that suggested, for me anyway, a kind of a way of. ... cause I know there is concern in ... in the community as a whole with .... with losing this significant piece of natural area, and .... and my hope would be that we can.....we can work with that woodland character and have it .... you know, integrate it within the community as a whole. I was.....I was really pleased to hear about the good neighbor concept with the environmental groups. I think, you know, the .... this project, you know, what has changed from 2001 when the district plan was first developed, we ... we now are on kind of the cusp of beginning to develop climate change goals. How can we anticipate those in this plan, um .... I think, is an important consideration, and ... and that brought to my mind the .... the value of the woodland. The value of the woodland, uh, there's significant values with respect to climate change with that existing woodland. Um .... it also suggested to me that we .... we may want to, on the.... aftermath of Jeff Speck's talk, how can we, uh, review our development standards to try to have, urn .... with respect to roadway design and things of that sort, uh, of. ... of smaller footprint basically, so that that, um, would address the .... the benefit in terms of the walkability of the .... of the development, but also reduce the amount of storm run .... uh, storm water run-off that we .... we'd see on site. Um .... urban design is another feature that has kind of...evolved since 2001, and interestingly enough, the um, the North District has one of our few form - based code developments. Uh, I would be interested in seeing the development explore how a form -based code would be applic... applicable to the development. Uh, you often find in form -based codes, the notion of a .... uh, a center to the development. I think that speaks to one of our Strategic Plan goals, which had to do with .... I think it was .... it was referred to there as sort of a commercial core, as I recall, but .... but the idea that, um .... a neighborhood of this size, um, would benefit from having a center. And...and so that This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 11 then, with the center, then that suggests that there may be some kind of way of addressing the density in a way that reinforces that center, uh, and overall... for the project overall that you have a .... a kind of a gradient effect with respect to density, that ... that gives greater emphasis to the center and acknowledges the transitions at the edges. Um, so I think there are a number.... basically a number of issues that, you know, I think we're now 15 years after than plan has been developed where we .... we have a .... a stronger sense of the impacts of climate change. We have seen the evidence of, uh.....a.... a different set of principles with respect to urban design, um, we have already the .... the beginnings of a solution to the, um, mobile home park. So I think on a number of fronts, if we can ... move forward on all of them that the end result will be something we're extremely proud of. And that I .... I think given the mix, I .... there, to my I think there's a really interesting opportunity for this to truly be a project that will attract, um, attention beyond Iowa City. Throgmorton/ Okay, is there anything else anybody wants to draw attention to? Geoff, do you think you've gotten (both talking) Fruin/ Yeah, appreciated the discussion. (both talking) I think it's helpful. Throgmorton/ Okay, good deal. Thank you, John! All right, uh, our next topic is to discuss future actions concerning downtown development, and I want to thank Geoff and Eleanor for preparing their memos concerning this topic, and I think for the public's purposes and probably for our .... to refresh our memories, it would be good for, uh, Geoff and Eleanor to very briefly summarize their memos for us. Discuss future actions concerning downtown development [1P # 4 and 5 of 10/27 packet]: Fruin/ Sure. Uh, I'll .... I'll start. Um, one, my first recommendation was that you .... you spend a little of the time trying to narrowly define, uh, the issues at hand, uh, to the extent that you can. Um, I think it's important when you're selecting a process to .... to ..... um, to go down that you ... you get that scope as narrow as you can cause that'll influence the project. So if this is, you know, this is about reviewing the entire Comprehensive Plan or is this about building heights, historic preservation, or some very targeted aspects here. Um, we laid out, uh, five different actions, um, including, uh, the one which would be take no further action and just rely on the underlying zoning that's there, the CB -10 zoning, and the existing Comprehensive Plan. You can amend your economic development policies, knowing that, uh.... um, most significant developments downtown, urn .... uh, rely on some type of City assistance — not all — uh, but certainly our history tells us that most urban in -fill projects of significant scale, uh, need, uh, some type of economic development assistance. You've already started the process at the EDC Committee to amend your economic development policies, and you could rely on those. Um, if the issues are fairly targeted you could look at amending the underlying CB -10 zoning code, um, and then, um, the fourth option would be to initiate a form -based code. This is a recommendation that's currently in the Comprehensive Plan, but one that we have not, uh, pursued to date. And then fifth you can amend the .... the Comprehensive Plan. Um, and what I ... cautioned in my memo there is you can spend a lot of time This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council session of November 1, 2016. Page 12 crafting, uh, some well-chosen language for that Comprehensive Plan, but at the end of the day if you don't address the underlying zoning, I'm not sure you're going to accomplish much. Uh, I don't think there'll be much practical effect to that action. So, that was my memo. Throgmorton/ Great. Thank you. Eleanor? Dilkes/ Um, so my memo just addressed, uh, what a comprehensive plan is, uh, under Iowa law and what the Council's zoning authority is under la ... Iowa law. Um, the Iowa code requires that the zoning, urn... authority of the City Council be exercised in accordance with the comprehensive plan. Um, and there've been a number of cases in front of the Supreme Court where various land use decisions have been challenged (unable to hear person speaking away from mic) as not in ... as not in accordance with the comprehensive plan, and that body of case law tells us that, um, the comprehensive plan is to be looked at in its entirety, that to focus on any specific language or element in that plan can actually undermine its purpose, um, that a comprehensive plan is essentially a statement of the community's goals and aspirations, and .... the quintessential piece of a comprehensive plan is the land use plan. I mean historically that's what comprehensive plans do is they identify, urn .... areas of land use, residential, commercial, and industrial, etc. So as John was talking about the North District Plan, that land use plan there, um, if it .... there was going to be a desire for commercial zoning in the area of the plan that is identified as residential, then that would require a comp plan amendment, cause it would be very hard to read that plan in its entirety and say, um, commercial zoning in that corridor would be consistent with the comprehensive plan. Um, so when you think about that, that ... what a comprehensive plan means in Iowa is very consistent with how ... how the Court has defined, um, a city council zoning authority, which is very broad. And, um, I think I gave you one of the statements that the purpose of the comprehensive plan is to prevent the council for acting arbitrarily and capriciously, and you all know that... that.... when reasonable minds can differ, that's not acting arbitrarily and capriciously. Um, so the Court is not going to box in a council to a particular zoning based on specific language of a comprehensive plan. Um, and ... and frankly, courts don't want to be in the business of setting land use policy, and they're in the business of. ... of, uh, zoning. Um ... and I gave you the example, not because I wanted to raise old (laughs) old issues, but simply because the Chauncey is a building that people are familiar with, and we ha .... I gave you the Court's statement about, um, why they rejected the challenge that the Chauncey was not consistent with the comprehensive plan. I think that's a good example of the applications of those principles that I have just talked about. Um, with respect to the downtown, um, I ... I think, and I ... I gave you a couple of specific examples in terms of. ... I thought to help you decide what .... what your goals are with the downtown and how you want to pursue those goals, but for instance the Coun.... the .... the, uh, the downtown plan says recommends councils should, um, pursue a form -based code. Um, council may or may not pursue a form -based code, and either of those avenues is consistent with the comprehensive plan, the .... the council is never obligated by a comprehensive plan to .... to rezone property. Um, similarly, if the Council went through a form -based zoning process, that ended up with a code that didn't have the specific This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 13 heights of the buildings identified in the comprehensive plan, that would be a valid exercise of the Council's zoning authority. Throgmorton/ Thanks. So, uh, would I be correct in saying the courts are strongly inclined to defer to the judgment of the city council, so long as the action of the council's not arbitrary or capricious? Dilkes/ Yep, that's it in a nutshell. Throgmorton/ Yeah, okay. Thank you. All right, um, well we have five options in front of us. I wonder if any of you would like to start off by responding. Thomas/ Well, I ... I'll kick things off here. Um, my inclination is .... is actually kind of a two- part, um, inclination. Uh, I would first say that of the five options, uh, in the short-term, I would .... I would support amending the economic development policies. Uh, I think that ... that kind of speaks to what Geoff was referring to. I think in the short-term, uh, the ... the economic development policies, uh, which are .... have gone through an extensive process through .... I think it's about to wind up in terms of the, urn ... the meetings with the .... the various groups, uh, it's had a wide range of participation. I think roughly 60 participants. So there'll be a great deal of information coming to Council, um, through that process, and I think it addresses an area where, urn ..... you know, defining the City's policies is particularly important in the short-term. Um, in the long-term, uh, I would advocate for initiating form -based code, urn.... change.... changing as .... as recommended by the Comprehensive Plan to a form -based code. And .... and I think a number of things, urn .... would be helpful to have in hand when doing that. So I'm .... I'm not, um, I'm not troubled by the fact that it may have to come .... you know, some .... you know, a couple of years down the road, or wherever we want to define that. Uh, we have, uh, the historic properties inventory, which is underway. We have our parking policy, which is underway. Um .... what else do we have, oh, the market, housing market study, uh, that's underway. All of these things, uh, in my view, especially if we .... if we go the route of a form -based code, which I .... I do think would be the most effective, especially if we have that information at hand, because it will give us as the current, um, Riverfront Crossings Plan has done, a way of basing the form -based on that information. So we'll have an idea of what that market is that we're anticipating development to give form to, uh, along a form -based code concept. So .... my feeling is that ... that some of the issues that we .... are the most controversial and .... and in need of. ... of definition, um, would be addressed effectively with amending the economic development policies, uh, but I do think the form -based code in the long run would allow us to integrate all that complexity, uh, which goes into making, uh, land use decisions in the downtown. Throgmorton/ How bout the rest of you? Cole/ Well I guess I'll jump in. I guess for my purposes, I would like to look at, uh, the community engaging on five, amend the Comprehensive Plan. Um, just like we're doing with the North District Plan, where we've identified a portion of that plan that's inconsistent with a possible development, at least as far as what I'm trying to accomplish, This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 14 I don't think we need to entirely rework the Comprehensive Plan. What I'm looking at is whether we need to make a modification to the Comp Plan to address building heights. Now, I understand that the Comp Plan is not regulatory. However, um, I believe that it's a covenant between us and the community, that we should try to honor it to the best that we can and to interpret it to the best that we can, and I do not believe that it's so ambiguous that two people are always going to be able to disagree, in particular, our current downtown plan calls for taller buildings at corners and discourages taller buildings between those .... those corners. Him ... I am amenable to changing that, but I think that in order to change that guidance, um, which I'm gonna exercise my discretion consistently with, I want to engage in the process of amending the Comprehensive Plan. Um, but I'm not looking at it as entirely revisiting it, at least the process that I'm envisioning is very similar to what we just heard with the North District Plan, um, which I'm anticipating is not gonna be a very significant, time-consuming process. So that's what I'm gonna try to focus on. Um, I think we understand it's not regulatory. Um, but we are exercising, at least four or more are exercising their discretion consistent with what they interpret the guidance is, which I believe is specifically clear, and so I think consequently, we need to look at, um, if the community feels we need to change that, um, I'm not dogmatic about building heights. Um, but if we're called to ask for our discretion, and that's what it means, uh, in terms of whether it's a TIF or anything that comes before us over which we have discretion and for people that want to build, uh, at height and can finance it independently without City action, they're currently able to do that right now. Um, so that's sort of the position that I would like to focus on is .... is five. Dickens/ When was the last Comp Plan for the downtown district done? Is it relatively new? Fruin/ Yeah, it was the, uh, it was done along with Riverfront Crossings. So adopted in 13? Throgmorton/ 13 (several responding) Well, I guess I have views, uh, if you don't mind I'll share them with you. Um .... first of all I'm very happy we're having the discussion, this discussion. So, we could take no action, but it seems to me that would leave us stuck where we are. So I don't think that's a viable thing to do. Second, we could amend the downtown part of the Comp Plan, even in modest ways like you've recommended, Rockne, but Geoff's memo, and our discussion during the October 18a' meeting, persuade me that the amendment process would consume time, not generate consensus, and have minor practical effects. Third, we could amend the CB -10 code, which in my judgment is out of sync with the downtown portion of the Comprehensive Plan, but that would surely run into a super -majority hurdle, which'd be mighty difficult to overcome. Fourth, we could initiate rezoning to, uh, the form -based code thing, but uh, I agree with John. Uh, it'd be better to defer action on that for a couple years or thereabouts, until we get this information from these... at least three other processes, uh, come into us, uh, so we could anticipate that the staff will be looking toward beginning that form -based code process in another year or two, uh, and .... then I also notice that, uh, Geoff s excellent memo does not address historic preservation concerns, at least I didn't see any, and I don't recall it addressing parking, uh, the parking provisions of the CB -10 code and spill-over effects into surrounding neighborhoods and that kind of thing. And those two elements are part of the conundrum we're wrapped up in. So I think they need to be, uh, taken into account This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 15 somehow. Uh, but .... (laughs) for what it's worth, I've thought about this a lot, and everything leads me to TIF. It leads me to our TIF policy. So .... as I indicated in my August l la' memo, I think it was the 11 fl, to you, I think we need to state clearly what kinds of downtown.... what kinds of projects downtown the Council will support with TIF, and the best way to do that, I think, is ... to have it emerge from the, uh, as you suggested, Susan. I'd like to have it emerge from the Economic Development Council's, uh, deliberative process, which is almost (laughs) you know, we've almost done the focus group stuff. I think.....you're goin'to the meeting tomorrow, right, and that's the last one? Dilkes/ Mayor, to clarify, you're not just talking about TIF. You're talking about .... any economic development incentive I assume. Throgmorton/ Uh, well I'm referring explicitly to, uh, TIF as an .... an, the key economic development incentive for projects downtown. That's what I was referring to, if I'm somehow.... Dilkes/ Well you recently had a project (both talking) involved a different (both talking) Throgmorton/ Yeah, so, yeah.... Mims/ That's what I was going to bring up too (both talking) Dilkes/ ....incentive, so .... assuming you're talking about any financial incentive by the City would be included in that process. Throgmorton/ Yeah, well may .... it may well have to be (both talking) Dilkes/ ...(mumbled) Tbrogmorton/ Yeah. So .... that .... that's where all this leads me, to think we ought to be focusing on the, um, if you will the economic development incentive policies, pertaining to development in the downtown area. I don't .... I don't know if...Kingsley, Terry, Pauline have things you want to say or .... or not. Botchway/ Yeah and so I'll be.....I'll be a little bit honest here. Um (several laughing and talking) Oh, sorry! (several talking) I'll be honest, but um, I'm kind of taking back some of the comments, just based on what I've heard, um, you know, I think that Jim's ... er, Geoff s memo, excuse me, um, pointed to somewhat of a issue that I was having around, you know, the clearly defined issues, and so I'm hearing a lot of different things. I'm hearing, you know, be it, uh, a very comprehensive thing or something that we need to talk about, multiple different things, um, I hear height. You know, I .... I ... I would just, you know, if I'm not clear, than I'm no ... and I know that a lot of other people that I've talked to aren't necessarily clear as, you know, I think we've had this discussion or maybe I've brought it up, as to why, like what is the reason why and being clear about that. I do agree that, you know, um, if we're talking about, um, clearly defining how we This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 16 can, um, let the developers know, let the community know how we're going to, uh, spend our financial resources in regards to TIF, or any other, um, financial incentive, I would like to be clear on that front because I think we have run into some issues, um, that I mean I ... I publicly, you know, that I .... I disagreed with I guess the majority of Council about that, um, we need to make sure that we are, um, being clear from that standpoint. I will say though, as I have, you know.....kind of back and forth in my mind, and again I think I'm falling in line with kind of moving towards the EDC route, I am interested in more of a .... and this can ... this will come up when I guess we hear some of the feedback, a more deliberative process from a public perspective. Because I ... this was great, cause I ... I appreciated us having this conversation because it gave me some time to talk to different folks about, you know, how they're feeling about different things and, you know, I would say that the majority of people I've talked to, and I know that I .... I may talk to a younger group than many of you, um.....there's, um, there's some, uh.... there's some concern about, you know, not knowing, and this being a substantial piece, especially as it pertains to, uh, economic development, and I'll be honest with you, I mean, some of the conversation was biased. I mean I talked about the fact that the recent project, where I think it was about $70,000, Council voted down, and I spoke from that particular bias as far as why I thought that it was something that should be moved forward. Um, and so I think that may have played a role in some of the conversations I was having, so I want to be clear from that standpoint, you know, a little bit honest, but urn .... I do think that, you know, and I know that we've had some type of deliberative process with the 60 individuals that have been a part of the EDC conversation, but I ... I just want to make sure that whatever discussion that we have, based on whatever comes back, you know, that be ..... I wouldn't say, you know, drawn out in some type of long, um, elongated type of discussion, but you know ..... have some type of, um, marketing or, um .... something to ensure that we're getting, um, a large group of the public here. I mean, Jacob, I'm, you know, if students are interested in participating in something that I think is central to our core, to the University and the downtown interplay with the University, they need to step up and I think that ensuring that we have that communication, I think is going to be important because, again, I think that for me a lot of people just weren't even (mumbled) some of that's my fault for not talking to them about that prior, about some of the conversations we're having about the downtown and what this means and all those different things, whether it be about height, and whether it be about historic preservation and such, and so ... um, you know .... I think for me it was..., regardless of what we chose, and if the majority of Council was interested in, you know, maybe doing a .... a Comprehensive Plan standpoint or something along those lines it would be focusing on that public process and ensuring some of the concerns that I shared last time about who would be engaged in that deliberative process and making sure that it's diverse, um, demographically as much as possible, and so again, I say all this to say, um, I'm in favor or supportive of the, you know, the economic development process, but as we bring that back, I mean, I would be interested in having somewhat of a larger conversation, um, or again marketing that out to the communities, um, as far as what that will look like and having them, um, come in as well. Mims/ Well, I think we've got.....kind of a two -fold process or problem here. When ... when the EDC started these focus group meetings, the .... the charge on that was to look at our TIF This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 17 policies, and only our TIF policies. That's the only discussion that we have been having with the focus groups. Okay? Um .... and.....you know, I mean as Eleanor just mentioned, and I was going to anyways, you know, if we're talking about economic incentives besides TIF, then we've ... we've got a whole new starting place, folks. We haven't even started to address that. So these focus groups that we've been doing through EDC have not talked about any other economic development incentives. And, you know, and as I said last time, you know, my belief is the reason that we've ... that this Council voted down Kevin Munson's project was about height. And so if height is the real driving issue here, let's get it out on the table! Okay? And for right now, and .... and this has been said repeatedly, until you change the code, you follow the code. Okay? Kevin Munson's project was on a CB -10 piece of property. Which allows unlimited height. And yet there was not a good reason given at this Council to vote that down that we had .... really authority to be thinking about that night. Parking was going to Board of Adjustment. Doesn't matter whether students live in it or not. But it was voted down, not based, I don't believe, based on $72,000. It was based on height, and yet that is a CB -10 parcel. So if height is really the issue for this Council, let's get it out on the table! Taylor/ Well I (both talking) Throgmorton/ So, um, go ahead, Pauline! Sony. Taylor/ I was just going to say, um, Geoff had mentioned when he started out, is it ... is this truly something, uh, that's more about targeted areas and he mentioned building height, but I think it's ... it's more than the building height, also, cause other things have been mentioned too, uh, the historic nature of the buildings, uh, parking has been brought up and that's a really, really big issue that I think we really do need to focus on and ... and think about, um, and also just the, uh, and the environmental impact of the buildings, the facade, the design of the building, uh, and, uh, it's affect on surrounding neighborhoods and how .... how it transitions into the surrounding neighborhoods, I mean, there's a lot of those factors that .... that I think need to be considered and maybe that falls more under the form -based code, urn .... uh, title, uh, as well as perhaps the economic, uh, cause I don't think, uh, yes maybe you just talked about TIF, but I don't think whether the developers looking for $10 or $10,000, I don't think it, uh, matters whether it's tax credit or TIF. It's ... they're still coming before us to ask for some ... some financial assistance and we would need to consider, uh, those kinds of things. Dickens/ I'd agree with Pauline that basically we do have to wait for this economic development policy to come through before we even look at any of this. Until that's done, this means nothing. We just did a Comp Plan in 2013. The city hasn't changed that much in four, three years, almost four now. Um, so I'm not interested in going through another long Comprehensive initi.... uh, Plan ..... the form -based code, we haven't really given that a whole lot of time to see how it's working. It's....it appears to be working very well, but we .... we're only a couple three or four years into that in the .... the Riverfront Crossing area. I am interested in initiating the form -based code eventually. But, uh, I think we're jumping ahead here a little bit until we .... we define what our policies are and ... and .... I think we're scaring people away from developing in Iowa City because we .... we can't This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 18 come to a .... an agreement on what we're .... we're going to give money to or what we're not to, so I think before we do anything else, that needs to be decided. And if all we've done is the TIF, as Jim said there's other financial, uh, opportunities that the City gives that if that's part of the case, that needs to be included in our economic development policies. So I think we do need to have a little more time there and a little more discussion with the .... the focus groups. If we have to go back to `em, you know, I'm not into delaying things a long time but you .... you gotta get it right to begin with. Throgmorton/ Yeah, so, um.....I.... trying to count here (laughs) I think I heard four people supporting this Economic Development Committee process, and I know Susan said, well, other factors are involved, it's not just TIF, and Rockne, you wanted to go toward the Comprehensive Plan route, uh..... Cole/ I.....yeah, and it doesn't look like I have the votes for that. Um, so I will then support the TIF, or the economic development (both talking) Throgmorton/ So .... so let .... let me say a little bit in response to what Susan has said. I'll speak entirely for myself here. Uh, for myself I'd say you are absolutely correct, that I was inspired to initiate this downtown development review as a result of, uh.... the outcome of our vote with regard to the Munson proj.... project on Linn Street, and the public discussion that occurred after that. So you're absolutely right about that. Uh, but I think, uh.... there are .... I, the more I thought about it the more I thought there are multiple elements involved in that, the review of that particular project that were not clearly enough articulated during our meeting, so it left us all in this kind of ambiguous world about why this Council voted 4 to 3 against that project. So I thought we needed to revisit it and come to a clear .... uh, indication about what this Council would support in terms of developments downtown. That's why I initiated this process. So, here's the way I see this situation. I think what we have before us are two divergent visions of development for the downtown of Iowa City. One is something that could be called `it's all about the money,' meaning .... uh.....getting the most tax revenue possible out of specific projects. And we've had at least one prominent member of our community come before the Council and say, "It's all about the money." And the other, uh, could be called something like `preserve our history and preserve our neighborhoods.' So these, um.... are not communicating very well with one another, and I think we need to find a way to... to bring them together in a constructive way. I think we need to develop a policy that closes the gap between these two visions and clearly signals our policy toward downtown development. And the nub of it .... and right now, anybody, as you said, Susan, can develop a piece of property downtown in accord with the CB -10 code, and there are only two things, as I understand it, keeping `em from doing it. One is the parking code, and the other is our TIF policy. So, the parking code, we need to do some things about that. I have some ideas, but .... the most important thing it seems to me is our TIF policy. So, that's why, uh, you know, that's my rationale for starting this process, and uh, why I think we need to be focusing on TIF, at this particular moment. Cole/ And I'd actually think our downtown plan .... Jim, actually currently does a good job of trying to mix those two concepts (both talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 19 Throgmorton/ I do too. Cole/ And so I think if there's any uncertainty, I think read our plan, um, I want to follow it closely and I want, you know, if there's a proposal, just as we cite our Strategic Plan, there should be textual support with that downtown plan. Now, as to the Linn Street project, the reason why I voted for it was I did not feel it complied with the Comprehensive Plan, again I know it's not regulatory, but we're asked to exercise our discretion, and I don't think there's anything improper exercising our discretion consistently with what we view the clear recommendations are. So, I think in the meantime if we're not going to amend it, and we want to seek City assistance, I guess my recommendation is we follow the downtown plan, until it's changed. Mims/ I say we follow the zoning. Cole/ Well to ... we don't have, for purposes of exercising our discretion, we can follow the Comprehensive Plan to do something more (both talking) Throgmorton/ We are following our zoning. We've not, uh, we've done, we've blocked no development solely by sort of changing the CB -10 code or something. We haven't done anything like that. Mims/ You get my point! It was CB -10. The reason why it wasn't approved was height. That's my point. Thomas/ Well, and actually, you know, there were a number of issues, and ... and I would want to emphasize cause we have been kind of. ... maybe fetisizing.... fetishizing the, uh, the question of building height. The other .... the other important thing that the Comprehensive Plan, the downtown portion of that, uh, covered was parking, and if you look at the parking.... Mims/ And that was going to the Board of Adjustment. That was not in front of the Council. Thomas/ No, no, I'm talking about .... (both talking) I'm talking about the Comprehensive Plan had language in there which looked at the parking requirements, and the .... the plan called for, uh, a 250 -stall parking ramp, uh, in the downtown for itself. Um, the estimates for the parking need that was being generated by that plan, which was not an ambitious plan, was a thousand cars. Uh, the ... so the .... the, satisfying that demand was falling far short, even with the 250, uh, 250, uh, stall parking garage. So .... so it seems to me we've.... we've, what .... what the Linn Street project suggested to me was we could magically.... put away any concern whatsoever with respect to how do we meet the parking demand. And ... in this town, I felt the Comprehensive Plan made an awful lot of sense. Unless we are really planning to .... to basically, uh, decouple any development in the downtown from the parking requirement, we have to be ... you know, we have to go through that process very carefully. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 20 Mims/ Well, and I don't disagree with that, but again my point is parking was not in front of us that .... that night. That was going to the Board of Adjustment to determine whether or not they would allow, uh, them to not do the parking on-site. So.... Throgmorton/ There was also built in to that a waiver of the $26,000 per stall fee that's associated with not putting parking on-site. Mims/ But that wasn't in front of us that night. Throgmorton/ But we would have been signaling to the Board of Adjustment what our policy was. Botchway/ Yeah, but I .... I guess .... (both talking) Throgmorton/ ....I'm conscious of the time. I mean, I'm serious. I don't mean to cut anybody off, but...uh, we could go till quarter till and then we'd have to stop in order to .... make sure people get .... get ready for the formal meeting. So, please, uh, continue whoever wants to say anything. Cole/ Kingsley, are you going to say something? Throgmorton/ Well we have five minutes. (laughter) Cole/ Everyone's silent! (laughs) Throgmorton/ (mumbled) ...four and a hal£ Botchway/ I think .... I think we've .... kind of clearly shown the gap that you're talking about, and so I mean, again.....I just think we need to be clear about our why, urn .... you know, if it's about parking, say it's about parking. Um, I will disagree just a little bit because I remember that conversation as well and, you know, this is another situation where I get confused because we're talking about walkability, we're talking about, you know.....you know, you have Jacob talking about how we're introducing more bicycles, students aren't coming to, um, campus with, um, with cars, we had, uh, Mr. Munson talking about the fact that people were wanting to walk, um, from, um, the place where they live to the, uh.... to the .... to work. I .... we just need to be clear. That's, I mean, I .... I feel very unclear, and maybe I'm the only person in this boat, but ... and that's fine, but ... um, at least for the people I was talking to as well, it seems very unclear and so .... you know, if it's .... if it's focused on, you know, having these conversations, um, within kind of the EDC framework, again I agree with that. I just ... I also worry .... I'm .... I'm being redundant but I guess I .... I'm trying to be clear as well. I also worry, and you've kind of alluded to it, Susan, a little bit that, you know, is this, I mean, and I think everybody did, if this is about all financial assistance, if this is about some, you know, how ... and my other question that kind of came up as we were talking about it is, you know, how much detail are we getting into, um, with our policy in respect to .... to buildings, cause as I was just kind of listening to some of the conversation I was thinkin', man, I mean, we're This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 21 gonna get .... we're gonna get pretty detailed here. Are we even gonna have the opportunity to make any type of discretion, um, about what ... what building we would like to see, I mean, there may be a building, for example, as I was thinking about this that, you know, the developer could say, and this is strictly hypothetical, that the entire building is affordable housing. You know, we're going to subsidize the entire building, but we wouldn't necessarily be, um, interested in that particular building because we've clearly defined, you know, rules around building height, rules around, um, some of the aesthetic appeal, I mean one of the things I do like about some of the .... the process that we're currently in, I'm not saying it's perfect, was that we were able to kind of see what a developer was, uh, thinking about, what elements that they had to provide, and then from that, you know, making our own judgments using that discretion that Rockne talked about, to .... to bring forth what we felt like the community wants to see, but .... again, I just ... more and more I think about it I wanted .... I think that the EDC policy is a great place to put it. I just worry about, again, you know, clearly what the issue is or if we've kind of communicated what that issue really is, and then beyond that, you know, having that discussion as far as how limiting are we .... are we trying to be or not trying to be. I think that's, again, the parking issue — if that's a legitimate concern, cause that honestly was like the first time that I .... I felt that I've ever .... ever talked about parking, any type of large.... meaningful way when it comes to the downtown, and so if that's really a concern, we need to put parking on the table as far as being a communication point in discussion moving forward. Thomas/ And that's, you know, what we covered (several talking in background) under that study we .... we will be doing. Botchway/ Right, correct (both talking) Thomas/ ....I think that's an extremely important piece of ...of the picture. Throgmorton/ Geoff, I had the sense that you were on the verge of saying something. Frain/ Well, I was going to try to wrap up the conversation (laughter) and ... and kind of try to provide what I think is ... is the .... is the path forward here and I think we've all touched on it, so nothing new here, but ..... we are in the process of doing our economic dev... development policies. Let's .... let's continue to .... to push that forward, let's wait for the parking study to ... to be complete. To be clear, that parking study is not really looking at demand in the downtown. It's more looking at the neighborhoods and how parking, uh, plays a role in those neighborhoods. That's one important piece of this downtown discussion, but um, I think it's wise to, um, to let that carry out and see where we come away with uh„ that next year, and then as, uh, a few mentioned that we've got the historic preservation survey underway. So, uh, we'll be better informed in.....in several months about, um, some of our historic assets there. And so I .... I just feel in listening, um, to you all that, uh.... um, maybe we're a few months ahead, uh, with this discussion. We need to let some of these processes play out. Um, unfortunately there is a project in limbo right now, um, and I don't have a good answer, um, for, um, the developer on the Linn Street project, other than we've got to let some of these processes This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 22 play out. Um... but I don't see....I don't see a way forward with the approvals on that particular project until we can solve a couple of these other things, um, when you look at that it involves economic development incentives, it involves parking, it .... even involves historic preservation because of the adjacent land use. So .... um ..... I.....I never liked the answer. We just have to wait and let those things play out, but .... in this particular case, I think that's what needs to be done. Throgmorton/ Okay. We're gonna have to stop there, but I want to alert the public about what's gonna happen next, you know, our formal meeting convenes at 7:00. We're gonna take a 15 -minute break, uh.... after the formal meeting ends, we're gonna return to our work session, and at that time we'll discuss the Climate Change Task Force. We'll also discuss the food truck topic, so Kyle and others, uh.....that's what's gonna happen, and .... and we'll do the rest of our clean-up with regard to our work session at the end of that, uh, that activity. So, um .... we'll adjourn to, what? What.... recess.... recess the work session. (RECESS WORK SESSION) (RECONVENE WORK SESSION) Discuss Climate Change Task Force RP # 6 of 10/27 packet]: Throgmorton/ So, uh, what's the right verb? We're gonna reconvene the work session .... uh, for the evening of November the I'`. And the topic, uh, on, uh, next coming up is to discuss Climate Change Task Force. Geoff, I wonder if you and/or Brenda could (both talking) Fruin/ I'll introduce it and then I'll .... I'll turn it over to Brenda to kind of walk you through her... her memo. You know we went through the Strategic Plan with you a couple meetings ago and ... um, I felt at the time, and I still feel that we're makin' really good progress on a lot of the initiatives. Um, this is one admittedly where I think we've .... we've stalled a little bit and we need to have a quick discussion tonight and... just make sure that, urn .... uh, we're all on the same page moving forward. So, when we first approached you about this, uh, I think it was in June or July, um, we recommended a process that, um, past Councils had used with ad hoc committees, and so we've had the Ad Hoc Diversity Committee, we had the Ad Hoc Senior Center Committee, and we really wanted to, uh, or at that time thought that we could (clears throat) emulate that process and am .... and .... and come away with something, a good product. Um .... we also included, um, in the budget $25,000 for a facilitator and that was really to help, um, relieve some of the admin.... administrative burden from staff. Um, but also we recognized that this was a little bit of a larger issue and we needed some, probably some help from a skilled facilitator, just to corral the discussion and keep things going forward. Uh, and so we .... we've moved down that path. We presented that to you in June. We said we think this is the right way to go. You said .... okay, go for it, and um .... uh, we started to develop the RFP and that's when second thoughts started to creep in and, um, Brenda's been doin' a lot of, uh, work looking at other plans and talking with other sustainability coordinators, and um, she can talk to you tonight about, um, some of the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 23 concerns that we....we now have with that path that we originally set forth, but I think it boils down to, um, the .... the real, the need for some technical analysis, um, that, um, will support, uh, this plan and give it the foundation, um, to .... to really be meaningful for a number of years, and we're just not quite sure that our original recomen... recommendation to you in terms of process will produce, um, a report that has the technical backing. So, with that I'll tum it over to Brenda. Nations/ Um, we looked into, uh, hiring a facilitator and, um, a facilitator would do some of the same things as a consultant would do, but a consultant would, uh, coordinate a lot of the things that would have to be coordinated, and it's pretty large scale because it would involve a lot of the community. It's gonna be, um, because it's not regulatory, a lot of, um, what people to commit to is of course voluntary. We're gonna have to involve the University, uh, industry, businesses, uh, residents, and um, most importantly, uh, if we .... if we do have a target that we're gonna really achieve, we're gonna need some calculations to really, um, figure out how we're gonna get there. So, say industry, a certain industry, decides to, um, make certain changes, um, we can calculate that and calculate what the University's gonna do, and calculate, um, what we could do in transportation and put all that together into a plan that, um, would be something that we could really use as a guide to move forward for several years and that we could, um, monitor and really look and see if we were making progress, and so it's that .... it's the calculations and the, um, writing the report and trying to get, uh, somebody to work with the community that has more expertise and has been through climate action planning before. Um, and this is what a lot of other cities have done, um, that I've spoken to. Uh, they've hired somebody to coordinate, um, the multitude of, uh, effort that has to go into it. So.... Fruin/ So there's a little bit of trade-off and this is where we really struggled, you know, with the ad hoe committees that we've created, it's a really bottom-up approach. It's got the, um, a committee that comes together as sort of an organic process and you get a....ultimately a set of recommendations at the end of the day that are well grounded in public input and participation. Sometimes when you go with the consulting process, you lose a little bit of that. You know, a consultant may come in and ..... and, um, you know, hold a couple of public meetings and .... and gather public input, but it's .... it's not the same as if it's a committee diving into it. So that's a little bit of the .... of the trade-off. You get that kind o£....benefrts of that grassroot, citizen input, urn .... with one, but you lack the technical and vice versa on the other end of the spectrum, and I think where .... where we've landed is that, um, we'd like to suggest moving to, uh, the consultant route where we get that technical, uh, aspect, urn .... uh, secured and then work with the consultant to ensure that it's a very robust process, and frankly we can still, and the Council can still, um, create a steering committee, uh, for this so we're not just having one or two or more public meetings where there's actually a working committee that can... consist of staff, community members, whoever you may feel would be appropriate. So, I think we can bridge those two gaps a little bit. Um, we did only budget $25,000 in the FYI budget for this because we originally had .... had thought that that facilitator route was the best way to go, and um, based on what Brenda's found with other plans, we're lookin' at two to three times that cost going with the, urn .... uh, the consultant route. So 50,000 to This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 24 75,000. I think at the end of the day, it'll pro.... it'll produce a report that will, urn ... uh, have some longevity to it. Um, I think with the ad hoc reports you typically can get a year or two out of those sets of recommendations, but this will set us up for some more long-term change and we have the budget flexibility to.....to add to ... to this particular initiative if you see fit. Dickens/ Kind of a hybrid basically using the consultant and the steering committee (both talking) little bit of best of both. Fruin/ That's what we're hopin' for, yeah. Nations/ And I think that the steering comm... committee could still have a lot of input in that, um, if ...even if a consultant would come in, I think they'd listen to the needs of the community and the people on the steering committee, and so, um, they would have input about, um, what sort of things Iowa City needs and wouldn't come in with a prescriptive thing is that you have to X, Y, and Z. I think that, uh, we'll need to look into, uh, what' [s possible, what, uh, what costs there are, what the community priorities are, and I think that a consultant would help with that, but also I think it's gonna be really important to listen to the community and all different factors of the community, um .... uh, and I think that's how a consultant could help, uh, intertwine, you know, with the ..... the public things, along with the industry and .... and University and tie all of those together into a report that has actionable items in it. Throgmorton/ So I'd like to say a few words about this. Uh, Geoff, Brenda, and I have had extensive discussions back and forth about which route to take, and those discussions have basically led to this point where Geoff and Brenda are recommending kind of a hybrid approach, and I .... I support their recommendation. Uh, but I want to draw attention to a few other factors here, uh, part of your memo, Brenda, suggest, um, that we set a .... a ..... a goal for the year 2025 of, uh, 26 to 28% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, right? And, A .... if I understand correctly, that percentage comes from the Pans agreement, uh, they suggested that that's.... should be the interim goal and then in some .... for 2050 or 2055 there's a.....much larger (both talking) Nations/ For 2050 the .... it was previously 80% by 2050, but since that's so far out and such a large number, um, the ... the U.S. adopted the 26 to 28% by 2025, and so that's like a national, uh,k adopted reduction. So I know that in your, uh, Strategic Plan that you wanted a reduction target by 2030, and um, this goes in line with, um, it's.... it's sooner and it also goes in line with the .... the national, what's going on nationally and what Obama signed. So it's pretty aggressive, I mean it's no small amount. So .... um, I think that's one of the other reasons that it would be helpful to have a consultant to, uh, really find ways that we can meet that target, because if you're gonna set a target, you really want to achieve it, and that's a pretty, um, strong target for just .... that would be nine years, right? Throgmorton/ Yeah. So I agree, it's a really important and challenging target, uh, but that's why we have to have our act together, both technically and in terms of public commitment. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 25 So, uh, I .... I support that, and I think that's the recommendation you're giving to us, right, to adopt that as a goal for the year 2025. Fruin/ Yes it is. Throgmorton/ And we'd have to follow up with a resolution I suppose for that (several responding) Uh, I'd like to mention maybe one or two other things, uh.... uh, Geoff, Brenda, and I also spoke with Dean Alec Scranton in the College of Engineering, uh, and then Brenda and I talked on the phone with Professor Jerry Schnoor at length about... this, kind of working through the .... the complexity of the issue with them, but also .... asking whether it might be possible to obtain some assistance from maybe at least one graduate student and maybe an undergraduate course taught by Jerry, if I remember rightly. Uh, and my understanding is that they're pretty eager to do that. So .... I think the odds are pretty good that we could dovetail, or intertwine the .... the College of Engineering's support with the technical consultant's work, and I ... I would hope we can do that. Uh, one other .... no, wait a minute. Do I want to do that? No, I guess that's all I wanted to say, so .... do the rest of you have, um, you know, reactions or..... Cole/ So we're not .... just to clarify, we're not necessarily looking for regulatory recommendations. We're looking for a plan that will be optional? Nations/ Well, we can also .... in our plan we can also have policies, you know, we could have City policies, but as far as like .... as far as I know, no other city like regulates, you know, how much energy residents can use or .... or industry. Um, the .... what some cities, especially bigger cities, have done is that, um, they begin, um, to have people report if they have a.....a building of a certain size, like 25 -square feet, start reporting their energy use to the City, but still there's no city that I know that regulates people within it to, um, have a limited use. But, that being said, um, we can have policies that like we up our, uh, building code or we can have policies that, you know, change our transportation and, um, I don't .... to my knowledge, we can't say, you know, you industries can .... you must reduce. Um, but we can certainly, um, look at things to, um, to, uh, encourage that and, um, no other city I know sets limits on their residents or commercial or industry. Throgmorton/ But we would get it from this, uh, plan a clear indication of a strategy for achieving the goal (several responding) Cole/ And I guess I'm not looking at regulation of maxim ... of the amount of energy people can use, but in terms of requirements for example for on-site solar production. If I'm not mistaken, I think that the City of San Francisco has required that, unless I'm mistaken, so those are the sorts of regulatory .... (both talking) Nations/ Right. Those .... yes (both talking) Cole/ ..."policies ...... okay. Nations/ Right. That's... that's what I'm ... the way I'm thinking (both talking) This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 26 Cole/ Okay. Nations/ So, you know, we could have policies that would have to do with energy. Cole/ Yes, cause we don't want (mumbled) Nations/ Yeah. Throgmorton/ Okay, other questions for Brenda or Geoff? Fruin/ Okay, we'll proceed down the path. Brenda has some example RFPs that she can begin to, um, work on and .... uh, we'll get that ready as soon as we can. Um .... uh, for .... when we were going down the facilitator process, Pauline and Rockne were going to help us with the evaluation of the facilitators and, um, I think we just continue that unless there's another direction but they can help us evaluate the consultants as well. Throgmorton/ Sounds okay to me. Cole/ So it sounds like really we're gonna proceed down both paths in some respects, which I really like (several talking) Yeah. Thomas/ I guess one question I would ask is, um ..... Brenda, could you refer me if not others to, uh, a ... a city's climate action document that you think would kind of reflect where we .... where you think this process would go. Nations/ Sure. Yes. I have, uh, several examples and I'll look through, uh, some of the best examples and I .... I can provide that, yeah. Um, I think the best ones are the ones that really spell out, um, what actions are going to be taken and by what time, and usually if you also have by whom that's really going to be much more effective than, um, you know, have .... have a statement on, you know, goals that aren't necessarily defined in ... in how they're going to be met, so..... Mims/ Are a lot of those things online, Brenda? Nations/ Um, yeah, I can send you links from other cities (both talking) Mims/ That'd be great, if you ... maybe just give it to Marian for the packet. That sounds reasonable. Nations/ Yep! Yeah. Mims/ Thank you. Nations/ I'll do that. This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 27 Throgmorton/ Super! Thank you, Brenda. Nations/ Oh, one last thing. Should I then go ahead and start, um, with University starting to .... to think about next semester, I can go ahead and start working with the University and lining up, um, work .... work with them, so .... okay. Great. Throgmorton/ I think so, yeah. (several talking) Okay! Excellent! So we can turn to our next topic, which is to discuss food vending truck provisions. I guess Kyle's not here. Andrew's not here. Are .... (several talking) so, uh.... how do you want to proceed on this, Geoff? Fruin/ Well, we had a background memo that Simon can walk you through, but it really just provided you the history of how we got to where we're at today. Throgmorton/ Yeah. Okay. Simon! Discuss food vending truck provisions IIP # 7 of 10/27 packet]: Andrew/ Yes, um, so .... our efforts to construct the current ordinance started in 2014. Prior to 2014, essentially food trucks operating from public parking spaces weren't permitted in the city. Um, we have been getting a lot of feedback and, um ... uh, you know, witnessing operations in other cities ourselves that made us think that maybe we wanted to look at that ordinance. Uh, Council at the time asked us to look at it. Um, so from there we, uh, crafted a pilot project, uh, to operate food trucks in three different locations in the city, uh, it ended up, uh, due to flooding and due to a lack of demand at one of the locations that the entire, uh, pilot project took place across the street in Chauncey Swan Park. Um, that wasn't an ideal location for vendors, so the feedback we got from the vendors that participated in that pro ... pilot, uh, was that the location wasn't visible enough, didn't have the foot traffic necessary to, uh, support the business that they were looking for. Um, so from there, uh, City staff worked with, uh, mobile vending association, largely with Kyle, to put together, um, our current ordinance, reached out to the Downtown District too, um, obviously they're one of the most affected stakeholders. Um, and put together the current ordinance. Uh, so where we are now is that they are, uh, allowed to operate from, uh, public city street parking spaces, um, they can .... there are some hours restrictions in terms of the duration in the spot and they also can operate only between 7:00 A.M. and 9:00 P.M. Uh, and there's the 150 -foot buffer from brick and mortar restaurants and, uh, the downtown zone is eliminated completely, but enough restaurants downtown that the 150 -foot buffer essentially eliminates all the downtown anyway. Um, so that's where we stand with the current ordinance. Um, as ... you read in the memo, it's our belief that if we were to try a .... another pilot project to look at relaxing, especially the hours, I think are the .... is the main, uh, question here, um, it seems as though that would make the most sense, uh, next spring, as the weather warms up and students are here. Um, if we do find that, um .... that .... the pilot, if we started it say in December, uh, December 6"' would be the soonest we could start it. Students will be gone shortly after that. Weather's getting colder. If we find from that pilot that, um, other stakeholders aren't particularly affected, that doesn't provide us with a whole lot of information, because that could be just by the This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 28 fact that there weren't a whole lot of customers here for the food trucks. So, it does make the most sense that if we were to go this route that we'd want to do it next spring, but um, certainly we're open to look at this, um, you know, I do think that the logic of the restrictions that are currently in place is good logic. I ... I think that it stands, but um, certainly there are, um, plenty of examples from other cities that, uh, you know, this is operated successfully and we want to do our best to support new business models and new businesses as well, not, uh, detracting too much from our existing businesses that have made, uh, significant investments in their, uh, downtown businesses. So, um, that's where we stand with the current ordinance. Uh, Downtown District also asked me to add, uh, the matrix that's in the Info Packet with the closing times of, uh, current restaurants downtown, uh, doesn't list, uh, Dumpling Darlings or Zombie Burger, um, which are ... will be late-night additions to the downtown too, so they asked me to pass that on verbally at tonight's meeting. Uh, certainly the .... willing to answer any questions that we can and ... um, look forward to the discussion! Cole/ Well I would really like to support the pilot project, and I think really it's giving you guys the authority to come up with a pilot project, and I think with the expectation that one, I .... I didn't realize that the ordinance, um, did not allow you to do the pilot. So really what I would attempt to do is get modification to give you guys the authority, not give you any details about how to do that. I think the expectation, hopefully, is that we'd be able to experiment with the late night. Do it with the 90 days, and then review after that, I mean, it seems like to me the .... the current problem I see with the current model is that they're competing directly during restaurant hours. Now there are a lot of late-night businesses, or ... there are a few late-night businesses that could be affected by this. Um, but I think let's see and let's evaluate that. So that's why I'm supportive of that, and I think the other thing too is bricks and mortars are incredibly important, but I think we talk about competition. You know we just had the Uber discussion, which wanted to bring more competition. We had taxi cab companies that also had investments for long- term frames. So I think if we're going to encourage competition, we have to do it in a way that is encouraging of all types of competition, especially where a lot of the food trucks aren't starting with tons of money to start in the first place. So that's why I would ask the Council to authorize the, um, staff to be able to do the pilot, um, with the expectation that if there's a substantial drop-off in business and they're.....they don't behave well, they don't clean up after their garbage, these sorts of things, then I think really we go back to where we were before. Um .... that's what I would like to be able to do. Dickens/ I agree. I would like to see the pilot program at least be tried. Uh, brick and mortar are very important of course to our tax base and everything else, and .... but, uh, you know, if they're.... they're providing a service that is not happening at other times or that can improve the service that is there without hurting those businesses, I think we need to at least give it a pilot project and ... and limit it to the 90 days and see what happens. Taylor/ I wish that Kyle was still here cause I'd like to ask him whether he thinks the market would be there in the winter, I mean they all sound like they're really anxious to get going on this and.... This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November I, 2016. Page 29 Cole/ Spring. Taylor/ What's that? No, I mean if we said now, ub, but looking at the spring, they might think that's quite a long ways to wait but I ... it sounds as though we're all in favor of that, but I also think it's a little bit ironic that the downtown businesses, the brick and mortar ones, would talk about competition when .... I just heard there's over a hundred restaurant kinds of food businesses downtown, and they don't seem to have any qualms about when say another new Mexican restaurant, uh, opens up. Uh, I .... I don't understand how one ... the mobile could be as much competition or less competition than .... than another brick and mortar building. Mims/ Well it's because of the difference in overhead costs. I mean that's a huge difference in the business model when you're talking about the overhead costs and property taxes and utilities and everything that a bricks and mortar, um, business has versus a mobile, um, vending truck. So that's.... that's a huge difference, just a totally different business model yet competing for kind of the same food at the same price type of thing so..... Thomas/ Yeah, I think .... and I was just looking at this article on Dumpling Darling. What I ... what I like about the food truck concept is it's kind of a minor league for bricks and mortar, so it .... uh, and now Dumpling Darling, you know, there's a quote in here that I love: we just wanted to make sure the customers were out there first. So this is a way that, you know, someone who has a .... has a vision, but maybe not the capital, can develop that business model, see if in fact the .... the community will support it, and then, uh, based on that outcome, decide whether they want to go into a building. So I think it's a great way of actually the bricks and mortar becoming those.....those.... those businesses we know are stronger if we have people who are interested in running a business in Iowa City go through that opportunity of. ... of testing their own business model. Mims/ No, I'm supportive of the pilot but I would agree, I think spring makes way more sense for everybody in terms of getting.... getting good data for everybody. Cole/ ...cause January's not going to be too viable! Botchway/ Nope! I would agree. I appreciate (several talking and laughing) I appreciate (mumbled) when these businesses were open (several talking) everything, so thank you for this, but uh, yeah, no I would agree (several talking) supportive of the pilot. Um, you know I think there .... I think that, you know, and you'll delve into the details, you know, there's location issues and some things that I think need to be worked out that I think we can come to some general consensus, um, about and um, you know I will say that, you know, I think Kyle has done a lot of work, and you know it's .... it's been a little bit awkward because I felt like, you know, at least for me when, um, we talked about this last time, I made a pretty pointed message that, you know, um, they should have some type of conversation, discussion, and you know, I .... I haven't talked with Kyle, but he did send me an email and, you know, that hadn't happened, so that to me rubs me the wrong way. I don't necessarily need to go into too much detail about that, but I think This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 30 there is an opportunity to have some type of collaboration, discussion about it. I think the young man that came from Cedar Rapids and discussed, um, you know, having people sit at the table and have some more conversations, which had done .... which have been done previously in the background and some of those things I think is important, but you know I would love to see it be tried out, and I'd be interested, I mean, I'll partake and be a part of the testing process, as well. Um, but um (laughter) verify whether it works(several talking and laughing) But I do think, you know, and I really want to key in on John's point, you know, I really feel like, again, ICAD has a wonderful model as far as being kind of an entrepreneurial, um, hub or um, of addressing different things. I think there's a lot of different things you can do, food being one of `em. There's some other things that we've kind of talked about, and I think that again, Dumpling Darling, which I love, um, is a, kind of a great business that has done that, and I'm excited about them opening up and all these other types of wonderful things, and so it's really good. Excited! Clarification of Agenda Items: None. Information Packet Discussion [October 20, 271: Throgmorton/ I think you know what you need to know, right? Okay, good deal. Thank you. All right, uh, we're supposed to turn to clarification of agenda items, but .... gosh (several talking and laughing) Day late and a dollar short, yeah! So.....so maybe we'll just skip that. Turn to Info Packet discussion for the October 20`h packet. Anything? (several talking and laughing) Fruin/ Sorry, no! I was jotting down some notes. (several talking and laughing) Throgmorton/ I'm not hearing anything, so ..... October 27`h packet? (several talking) Botchway/ The matrix is huge (mumbled) This is gonna help me! (several talking) Yeah, tremendously! (laughter) Fruin/ I didn't know you were such a late-night owl there! Botchway/ (mumbled) Dickens/ He only sleeps three hours. Throgmorton/ Well, with regard to IP8, pending work session topics. I'll just note that at our next meeting on the 15`h, uh, the work session will focus on the Airport Master Plan, uh, and determining, uh, legislative priorities for .... for the 2017 session. Fruin/ Yeah, and just so you now what to expect with that, um .... uh, we will present to you kind of our traditional slate of, um, legislative priorities. I don't think you'll see any huge shifts from us. Um, this is an opportunity for you to, uh.....add anything new that you This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016. Page 31 want to our legislative agenda or take something away, you know, what you want us to advocate for at the .... at the State level. Um, and then we typically will follow that up with a resolution at your next meeting. So our goal would be able to ... to bring a resolution on December 6'h, and then, uh, would also like to have a discussion, and with the Mayor not being there we'll have to, uh, talk to you off-line, but how the Council wants to engage our elected officials, because we've done that in a couple of different ways. The Council as a whole meeting with the, uh, State delegation or just the Mayor as a representative of the Council meeting with the delegation, so you .... between now and the 15'h you can think about that a little bit. Throgmorton/ Since I won't be here, I .... I prefer the latter. The whole Council meeting with the legislative delegation. I want to mention one other thing with regard to legislative priorities, again because I won't be here on the 15'h. It has to do with the School Board and their legislative priorities. I .... I would think we would want to reinforce their key priorities, assuming the ... the Council agrees with what ... how they state their priorities, so that the delegation and legislatures getting it from two different sources. Okay, uh, anything else in .... that, um, Info Packet? IP 15, the bar check report. I'd like to thank the staff for providing the summary, uh, at the beginning. (several responding) Right! And IP 17, the.... about Council listening post at the Senior Center on .... the 15 . I don't know who .... who's going to attend. Mims/ We don't normally.... yeah, she does (several talking) Karr/ We don't normally say that to allow for .... at least two will be there. Throgmorton/ Right, okay. So ... and it won't be me. (several talking) Mims/ We won't announce it but everybody goes down the line and says it's not me (several talking and laughing) Wait till after the meeting, I mean don't you get the point? (laughter) Throgmorton/ Okay! I think that's it! Anything else has to be brought up? If not, we're done! This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work session of November 1, 2016.