HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-12-05 TranscriptionPage 1
Council Present: Botchway, Cole, Dickens, Mims, Thomas, Throgmorton
Council Absent: Taylor
Staff Present: Frain, Monroe, Dilkes, Fruehling, Miklo, Laverman, Walz, Seydell-
Johnson, Havel, Knoche, Tharp, Howard
Others Present: (P&Z Commission) Ann Freerks, Mike Henseh, Jodie Theobald, Max
Parsons, Carolyn Dyer, Mark Signs (abstain)
(UISG) Nelson, Stewart
Consultation regarding the Gilbert/McColtister rezoning request:
Throgmorton/ So .... like to convene the City Council.... Iowa City City Council work session for
Tuesday, December the 5a . Joint meeting with Planning and Zoning Commission to
consult about a proposed rezoning on ... near Gilbert, South Gilbert and McCollister. So,
Bob, are you gonna speak first? Is that what (both talking) So, Ann and I, Ann Freerks
and I, uh, discussed this briefly, uh, I don't know, an hour or two ago, and what I think
we agreed is that I'd make a few introductory comments and then ask you to summarize
Commission .... uh, ideas about what's good and bad about the proposed development and
ask individual Commissioners to weigh in as well. So, let me start with a .... those
opening comments. Uh, first of all I definitely want to thank Commissioners for meeting
with us tonight and giving us a chance to consult. Max, how are you? I'm not sure if you
and I have met. Thank you for coming. Yeah! Just to make sure we're on the same
wave length, in our November 21 .... the meeting on November the 21 ", the Council
unanimously sing... signaled that we very tentatively were inclined to agree with the
Commission's 3-3 de .... defeat of the motion to approve the rezoning. But we also
thought it would be fruitful to consult with the Commission before continuing the public
hearing tonight, and before formally voting on the proposed rezoning. Yeah. During the
Council meeting, each Council Member indicated what .... the individual favored and did
not favor about the developer's current proposal, and thanks to Sarah Walz .... Sarah,
where are you? Out there ... thanks to Sarah for preparing a summary of the improvements
individual Commissioners and Council Members thought were necessary. Thank you for
doing that, Sarah. It's not as if you don't have other things to do (laughs) I think the
main question before us is .... what does the developer need to change ..... in his proposal
in order to obtain sufficient support from (noises on mic, unable to hear speaker) and the
Council. As we discuss this question, we need to keep in mind that a super -majority vote
from the Council might be necessary, depending on this and that. With that, let me turn
things over to Ann. So ... go ahead!
Freerks/ Sure. Thank you, Mayor. Um, as you said, there was a ... the vote.... the.... the, was 3-3,
uh, we had one member just walkin' in the doorway, who, uh, had to abstain. So, um, 3-
3 is a denial and um, and that's the direction that we took when, um.....I have to say I
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think most everyone would have been willing to work I think to try to get some details
and some things ironed out, but .... we're not the majority, or the three of us were not, um,
keen on approving it as it is and there were a number of reasons. I think for me and
for.... everything's out in the notes and you can read through that very carefully, cause I
think that they did a fine job, um, documenting most everything that was stated. But, uh,
density is a concern. The fact that this is kind of being sold as a missing middle piece,
um, and as I go through, I mean I carefully went through the South District Plan and I
went through, um, some documents about missing middle and I really tried to read
through everything as carefully as possible again, and to me, um, if we try to pass this as
a missing middle piece to the community, especially being a first piece, that this is going
to be something that the community is not going to want in the future, because it's such a
large area. You've got almost, uh, 22 acres, and all 159, or excuse me, I mean 196 units
are in multi -family. Not one is non -multi -family. So I think there just could be, um, with
some work .... you know, it's a difficult lot. I have to say, to develop, and there are some
positives. I think the fact that they're kind of using this block -like, uh, fashion to kind of
approach, um, the way things are laid out is .... is a positive, and there is some, um, green
space still yet that's outlined, but beyond that I think there .... there've been.... requests for
waivers in setback. I know that's something that in a letter that was sent by the applicant
(mumbled) later today they've laid out kind of a defense for that or a reason, but I think
that, you know, if we were to have setbacks of 25 -feet on arterials, if we wanted that we
would ask for that and .... and we haven't. What we have is 40 -feet for a reason, and
that's due to traffic and noise, and also mass and scale of a building, um, on .... on a street.
There's another area there where I think where.... they're.... they're asking for a setback
from ... up to 10 or 15 feet when it should be 25. So these are the kind of thing that have
kind of I think if we take those waivers away and we look at it, there are ways to
probably, um, manipulate it a little to bring out some of the density and to add something
more of a .... a transition, which is if you look at the Comp Plan, those are the types of
things that are asked for. Um, infrastructure was another thing. Uh, there was
discussion, of course, about improving the intersection and extension of McCollister, and
um, we think it would be .... I think the majority of us probably even those who voted in
favor of it feel that building permits shouldn't be put in place until that's a controlled
intersection and that the City would make a commitment to that, because, um, that is
going to be a major east -west arterial in our community and it just continues to have
traffic, um, building up on it. And that's something I think you probably heard from the,
um, people who live in the neighborhood as well, so .... but again, read through the
minutes. It's all there! So..um, building design, I think that there was some concern that
the buildings looked too much alike. I believe there are four units basically that are put
throughout this piece, um, to create it, um, and.....it, urn ..... the Comprehensive Plan calls
for exceptional design, especially if we're going to, um, increase density in any area, and
if. ... I've looked through most of this; a lot of it doesn't even meet the minimum
standards of design as it is right now, and again, that's another reason I could not, um,
say yes to this, just because it felt like it was a really.....a big stretch in order to say yes
and with some work, and that's what it needed was, um, some work in order to create
something that is palatable for the community around it and for the community as a
whole. Um .... uh, I think ... I mean everything's kind of outlined in there for you, but
the .... the density, the fact that, um, I mean this is a main thoroughfare and it's going to
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be, coming through southern Iowa City, and I think what we do here needs to have a
positive impact and be something that .... we really, um, can be proud of in this area. Um,
no one at all said that they were against affordable housing in the Commission. No one at
all said that they were against multi -family. I think what it comes down to is the fact that
all of the units are multi -family, even, um, I believe that the lots are all .... they aren't on
individual lots. I know Phoebe had some excellent points a far .... as far as where the
garages are located and the parking for these, that it's quite a distance, and when you
divorce the parking from the, um, buildings themselves, um, you know, you have a
difficult time selling that, I think, to an older person or even people, younger people want
to have access to their parking immediately, I think, or within an area that's closer. So,
again, with some work, I think that could be made something that .... um, can be a positive
and so we don't have to deal with that. So .... what it comes down to I think is .... design,
infrastructure, density, missing middle, um, especially for me. So .... I know that's a
quick overview and we can get into more detail if we have conversation back and forth
about some of these things, but, um, you know, I .... I just have a feeling it's kind of being
set up in a way that it's all .... going to end up as rental, and I think we need to have areas
where there could be duplexes on corners and .... so that, um, make it a place where you
can have, uh, rental units, and those people might be willing to buy into them as condos
because I'm .... I'm really not sure that that's the case the way this is set up. And really to
have a viable neighborhood, especially of this magnitude, of this size, you really need to
have something where you can have not .... you don't want to impede the ability to have
owner -occupy.... occupied people. You want to be able to work both ways .... for
something like this. And, um, I don't really see that here. So.....my two cents.
Throgmorton/ Other Commissioners want to speak?
Hensch/ Um, I voted in the ... in the affirmative for the motion, and largely because I don't argue
virtually with nothing that Ann says cause she's always very well reasoned and well
spoken, but I don't want to lose the good in pursuit of the perfect. The City has an
identified.... very powerful need for affordable housing and workforce housing. Um,
Johnson County, Iowa City are rapidly growing areas. We have to have a place for the
people who work in this community, that clean the rooms, sweep the floors, fix the cars,
that they have a decent, clean, safe, comfortable place to live. So, to me it just came to
the question of tryin' to balance that out, of trying to get this housing constructed, um, so
it's not down the road five, 10 years, but so that we have a .... we're doing something
today to make that acco.... to accomplish that. So that was just the whole thing, it was
simply a balancing act for me.
Theobald/ I had similar feelings and, um, it has always bothered me that we have this beautiful
park and we really do not have any affordable housing close by. So, um, I saw the details
that could be worked out and, um, it is, it's that balancing. Do we ... if you add .... less of
conditions and get the price to build the units up and it then becomes not affordable for...
for people. So ... you know I think that we all would support changes in it, but I felt that it
was a project that .... that needs to be done in some form.
Freerks/ Carolyn, do you have anything?
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Dyer/ I am just concerned about the density, but I really think that, um, we need to be realistic
about the need for affordable, workforce housing. Um, and ... that doesn't necessarily look
like single-family housing, but a mix of types I think would be, uh, preferable.
Um .... and would more ... more reasonably, uh, fit into the characterization of the missing
middle. Um .... (mumbled)
Parsons/ Uh, I was kinda on the fence, but I ended up voting, uh, yes for it. Urn..... I,
ub..... cause I think Ann did a great job of pointing it out, with the missing middle you
have one end of multi -family and then you have single-family, and then you have kind of
a transition between that with, uh, like duplexes, four-plexes, and I feel like if you take
out single-family, um, you kinda take out that transition and so if we did it over again, I
would like to see, um, a transition between that and the single-family neighborhood
(mumbled) did it over again, so.....that's about all I have to say. So I .... so I just thought,
we were off to a good start. I think this is a good start, but.....
Freerks/ Yeah. Thank you.
Parsons/ Just the little details to it.
Freerks/ Another thing I think I .... a point I want to make is that there really, in the southern
district, we don't .... we have quite a bit of affordable housing in this part of Iowa City,
and that's not to say that we don't want to continue to create that, but I think we have to
look toward balance as well, and that's why I think.... adding some other types of housing
and transitioning would be in the best interest here. Um .... I think there are going to be
other opportunities for townhomes and, um, zero lots in this ... in the area and I really hate
to kind of put this huge block here when we can also pepper it through in other portions
of the South District as we continue to develop that area, so that there aren't these big,
massive blocks, but that it actually is more like missing middle. So....
Throgmorton/ Okay, good! That's very helpful. So .... I wonder at this point whether individual
Council Members want to express.....ask questions or affirm particular parts of what Ann
and others have said, or raise other concerns. I .... I know ..... I know there's a list here
that Sarah put together for us. But I .... let's set up an extreme, uh, possibility here
that ... that we needed a .... a super -majority vote for any development proposal to pass.
What's needed, and it's hard to kind of guess the tea leaves, or read the tea leaves, to try
to figure out ... what would get us to at least 6-1 on this proposal. So .... how bout
somebody just kind of startin' off by weighing in with a particular response or question
or whatever.
Mims/ Well for me the minimum, absolute minimum, would be the infrastructure improvements.
Throgmorton/ (both talking) ...at the cor... at the intersection.
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Mims/ Yeah. The signalization, um, at Gilbert and McCollister, I .... I think absolutely has to be
done before this kind of development, as much more density and traffic is brought to the
area. Just from a pure safety issue. I think that needs to be signalized. (both talking)
Throgmorton/ I agree. What ... what do the rest .... does anybody disagree with that?
Thomas/ I would only add that (clears throat) I would be interested in at least exploring the idea
of an all -way stop sign treatment there.
Throgmorton/ Kind of right-of-way (both talking)
Thomas/ Yeah, right-of-way and .... and possibly, you know, for as long as we feel it's
acceptable, I mean, I .... Scott and, um, Rochester, which is kind of in a similar situation.
It's on the edge of town, transitioning from highway to, um, you know the city limit. It's
an all -way stop sign and I ... probably has even more traffic than we have here. Urn .... so
I .... I see no reason, I mean this is a very rural area (laughs) in my mind and it's .... part of
its charm. It .... and I hope, you know, my vision for how it develops out as a district is
that it retain a kind of small town character. So .... I don't know, my feeling is is given
the traffic counts there, which are.....um, less than 7,000 in any direction, that possibly a
stop sign is something to look at. I know the .... the one concern I have with that is that
the .... the intersection, streets are wide. But they could be narrowed. You know, we
know there is more capacity there than we .... we really need, and you know, there's more
roadway there than we really need. So, I would be interested in asking staff to look
at .... the feasibility of all .... an all -way stop there, um, because I do think that there is so
much value there, you know, you have concentration of recreational uses, uh, but you
have to cross Gilbert to get to them. Um, and you have to cross Gilbert to get to that
incredible bike trail, if you .... if you live east of there. So .... I see an immediate need, you
know, I really feel .... and I feel that the stop signs might very well work. I mean I think
we have stop signs in Iowa City and ... uh, in the metro region, um, Oaknoll.... Oakdale
and, uh, 12' Avenue is an all -way stop and there (both talking)
Throgmorton/ It might be a transitional point. What I think is most important is for the
intersection to be controlled so that people coming from all four directions have to stop.
Thomas/ Well that's exactly right.
Throgmorton/ And .... and you know in the short -run, maybe stop signs are appropriate. In the
longer -run, maybe signalization. So,maybe we shouldn't make that decision, but if you
agree (several talking) intersection controlled if we're gonna support the posal... the
proposal.
Dickens/ I'd like to thank Mike Tharp for putting together.... there was a lot of questions about
the Airport and (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Yeah!
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Dickens/ ...and I think it pretty much spelled out the questions that were raised and .... and that
does help, because we didn't have any information whether that was correct or not, and
uh, I think the way he spelled it out really does help there, but yeah, the intersection is
....I was just driving, coming from the south there, and .... there was a car stopped,
waiting to turn, and I was about 30 yards away, all of a sudden he decides to turn in front
of me (laughs) and you know, you're coming in, you're going 35 or 45. So it....it, I just
tryto go down there. I drove across Langenberg. I was going 25 and I had people on my
tail all the way across and the speed bumps, you know, it's .... it is a problem down there.
So I mean the speed limit and I think we could reduce that a little bit and ... with the stop
signs, uh, we've seen it work right downtown, uh, I think if that was done immediately
that would move this along a little farther. I still think there's some things about the
setbacks that we need to discuss, but....overall, I think the intersection is the biggest.
Throgmorton/ So I want to express a word that expresses, uh, the core (noises on mic, unable to
hear speaker) the word is neighborhood. It seems to me that this development should....
enhance and be compatible with the existing neighborhood to its east, but it should also
make a transition from the single-family housing on the east to .... some higher density,
uh, structures.....at....at the far end to the west or near the intersection of McCollister and
Gilbert, and that in between there should be a full range, a broad range, of missing middle
type housing so that you see and feel a transition, but the core idea for me is its gotta feel
like a neighborhood. It does not feel like a neighborhood now when I look at it. You
know, it feels like an apartment complex, and I have no....no real problems with
apartment buildings. Of course I've lived in `em, but....... that's what it feels like,
doesn't feel like a neighborhood, and it certainly does not feel well.....integrated, if you
will, with the .... the neighborhood to the east.
Cole/ Jim, if I could just briefly comment.
Throgmorton/ Sure!
Cole/ I think for me I think you capture what at least my view is is I think we need to have a
greater mix of incomes, a greater mix of housing types, and also I'm gonna bring up
another (mumbled) lot of ways totally different, but I think I want to bring it up anyway
is the Forestview, um, the amount .... and that we ... that's not before us in terms of zoning,
but the amount of work the developer went through in that particular pa .... case to reach
out to the neighbors, to get their feedback, to get their input, um, was amazing, and so
what I would like to see is that when this comes back to us, that the developer engages in
a meaningful conversation, um, to do outreach, um, to the neighborhood, and I think for
the neighborhood, at least for my point of view, I don't want the answer to be at least....
no, nothing! So I mean hopefully we can get somewhere between, you know, that they
can meet in the middle. They can engage in meaningful conversation, and I'm hopin'
that the end result of that process there is a greater variety of housing types and a greater
variety of income types that honors the transition from the single-family, um, close to the,
urn .... to Gilbert there, and I think if we do that I'd .... and by the way too, I don't think
this particular proposal is that far off. I mean I think there does need to be meaningful
changes, but it's not as if it's.....totally off the rails. I mean I think there's a lot of
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elements that I like to it, but it just needs to have a greater variety of housing types, cause
I agree, um, with Ann that .... Us just to me is not missing middle and if. ...... if we're
looking at missing middle housing tapes ...... we just need to stroll through various parts
of our neighborhoods and we see all different types of housing, um, but I think the
missing middle, uh, tries to capture (both talking)
Throgmorton/ What do the rest of you think?
Thomas/ Well I would .... with respect to the missing middle, and Jim's notion of a
neighborhood, uh, the way ..... the way I've always tried to frame this is.....what.....what
I'm hoping we can achieve here is what would be called a traditional neighborhood.
Traditional neighborhoods meaning any neighborhood prior to World War II, tended to
be more.....a mix of housing types, and that's what Opticos, uh, they observed that, you
know, they're from the Bay area. There're lots of, uh, op ..... examples of traditional
neighborhoods in San Francisco, Oakland, and Berkley, and they co .... they codified it,
uh, but .... but there, I mean, the missing middle is ..... is really a strategy to try to integrate
into existing neighborhoods those in -fill types, borrowing from that range that .... that
dropped out from single-family to the downtown, but with new development I think what
we're really talking about is a traditional neighborhood, which tries to capture as we see
in the Northside, uh, I think to some extent the Peninsula neighborhood captures that
quality. I think there are eight housing types in the Peninsula neighborhood, and it
includes single-family through.... urn..... to multi -family. Now that's the Peninsula. I
mean here I think one of the key issues with....with coming up with a concept is we're
not in the Peninsula. We're in the South District. So what ... what does that mean in terms
of the types, the distribution and so forth, but .... urn, you know, I've been a strong
proponent of traditional neighborhoods and the use of the missing middle, and as Ann
said, I'm .... I'm really concerned that we get this one right because if we don't, um,
the .... the notion of doing a traditional approach to a neighborhood design is .... is gonna
be poison. No one's gonna want to do it (laughs) uh, but we do have some good
examples, um.....I would even say on a smaller scale the Prairie Hill co -housing is
another example. It's four housing types, uh, there. The .... the lowest density's duplex,
uh, and then you have .... row, uh, townhouses. A really interesting housing type I think
that may have a utility here, uh, four-plex unit that looks like a large house, and then you
have the, um.....the common house, which has some units on the top floor. So, and that's
only.....seven acres, but the development is, what? Maybe half .... and half of that area.
So you have 36 units in three and a half acres. So I don't know that it's the density. I
think it's.... it's how we design this development that will make the difference. Um, I'd
just add, I'm okay with the, reducing the setbacks. I .... I think in fact there's a lot of open
space, but it tends to be in kind of this .... it's like a.....this... envelopment to the entire site,
which you lose a fair amount of the overall percentage of the acreage to this ring of open
space around the edge. Um, I think as we said when we were meeting on this, um, you
then end up with the housing and the parking feeling in my mind kind of concentrated.
So if we can..... um, perhaps expand the envelope for the housing, um, and then look at
how we better dis ....distribute the parking, and increase the housing types, you know, I
think ..... I think we'll get somewhere.
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Botchway/ Yeah, I don't want to echo some of the comments that have already been said, um....
I would agree with Mike, um, and kind of just the conversation around the balance. So,
you know, I'll be honest with you, I mean this .... this effectively, to me, is a huge
affordable housing project. I mean I think about it from that lens and I'm excited about
it, um, but I would agree. I mean from, you know, what other Councilors have said
around wanting to see more of a mix of housing types. I mean I feel like the community,
or at least the neighborhood, has spoken to some extent as far as not necessarily seeing
that and wanting to see more of that. Um, I .... I do feel like it's a tough.... it's a tough
balance. My hope is that, you know, some of those conversations were being had and
ultimately this is what was proposed with some of that conversation as far as what would
affordable housing look like, because I .... you know, when I heard you make your
comment, Rockne, as far as, you know, this.... similar to a Forestview situation, and I get
that. I .... I don't necessarily know, and I'm just going to be very frank, that we can have
a .... a huge affordable conversation with the neighborhood to whatever that directional....
whatever that direction is. I think that, you know, for me I would like to see more of an
expanded conversation. If we're truly talking about, you know, looking at affordable
housing from our workers, from all these different, um, standpoints, and it may take a
little bit more work, but I'd be interested in hearing about, you know, maybe some focus
groups that were run, uh, from different groups across the city, to what this may look like
and how this could be incorporated from that standpoint. Urn .... but, you know, again,
I .... I think that I would, I mean I would agree with the sentiment that .... the transition
does bother me. Um, you know, it looks like a lot of blocks, um, and that .... that to me is
a problem from just a kind of, you know, planning standpoint and how it .... how it.....
how it moves into the rest of the neighborhood, um, but for me I think that, you know,
again not only necessarily just incorporating the community or the neighborhood closest
to the development, but also thinking about, you know, how we can incorporated some
more thoughts and feelings outside of just that neighborhood. Um, it would .... it would
be interesting to me to see a .... kind of a more comprehensive discussion on what that
would look like from an affordable housing perspective as well.
Throgmorton/ I think it's absolutely crucial that this new development not look like and feel like
something that is radically different from the neighborhood immediately to the east. That
will create problems in the longer run. There .... the developer needs to blend the two
together, and that's.... that's the challenge for the developer, it seems to me. And ... I think
they're up to it. But they gotta do it if they're gonna get my vote.
Freerks/ I think when you said .... who said the Peninsula, uh, I just have to say that the fact that
you could meet anyone anywhere in Iowa City, anybody in this room or.....walking down
the street, and they could say they're from the Peninsula and it .... you.....anyone could
live in that area, you know. It .... I know, I've been to people's houses, students that I
work with, that live in the Peninsula, and I know people ..... so there's a wide variety of
people, I think, that live in that area. And.....when I see this, I see more of a buffer along
the area where you have the single-family homes, and so it becomes its own thing and
what you want is you want to be able to have people feel like they're, you know, a part of
something, a part of the bigger piece, and to .... to do that I think it just needs some more
work.
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Theobald/ Well .... and I think what Ann just said, to be a part of the other piece, and I think when
I hear the word transition, it bothers me a little bit. To me it's like here's single-family,
here's something a little bit less than single-family, here's .... I think it's the way it
integrates with the neighborhood, and that's kind of what's missing here. I think .... we
do need that continuity, but with different density maybe more affordable, but it needs to
integrate with what ... and what John says, is a neighborhood, and it is. It seems like that
trail cuts it off and we don't have that good integration. So.....
Mims/ Can somebody from staff remind me that prairie area ... does that need to be .... is that some
water retention also? Is there an issue with building on that?
Miklo/ This is a.....this would be water retention.....in this area. So I .... I .... it may be engineered
otherwise, but I think this is probably.....needed to be, uh, open space for storm water,
and the way the plan is designed, the storm water is directed through here. We can look
at that with the, uh, applicant's engineer, but .... uh.....I suspect we will have to have some
open space there.
Mims/ And that was my question, cause I .... I was thinking that that was part of what had been
said early on, and I think that's what, for me, as you look at this kind of creates that
barrier, um, or separation between the current development and housing and what's being
proposed. Um, if there's .... if there's the opportunity to make some adjustments with
that, um, then to, you know, maybe to potentially have combination of some single-
family, duplex, four-plex, whatever, whose backyards back up to those single-family
houses, then to me it starts to flow together more, um ... and again, I just don't know from
the water retention what .... what those possibilities are, but I think as you go along that
trail, in particular, to .... to try and do some backyards towards those single-family houses,
again with a mix of densities, mix of housing types, um, that are backing up, and then
again, your .... maybe your larger, more dense buildings as you get, um, get towards
Gilbert Street, but again a little more.....a little more variety than what .... at least at what
it appears as we're looking at this diagram, because as a number of people said, it looks
like a lot of blocks and .... I think .... I think as we've discussed over the last couple of
years, the idea .... that if we can develop new neighborhoods, when we have these open
spaces, that have ... a .... a wider variety of housing types and price points, um, I think it's
healthier for the neighborhoods, it's healthier for our schools, um, and I think that's
critically important as we look at school boundaries and .... and trying to be able to have
kids in walkable neighborhoods that we aren't plopping down, um, either high density,
low-income affordable housing, or even large areas of really, really high-end housing,
um, but that we're trying to.....you know, to integrate that more. I think to your
comment, Ann, and I think what you were saying and maybe didn't directly say is you
meet somebody from the Peninsula and you have no idea what their income level is.
Freerks/ Uh huh!
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Mims/ Because there's all kinds of income levels because there's all kinds of price points
(several talking in background) out there. So just because they come from that area, that
doesn't mean anything, and I think that's a good way....
Freerks/ Uh huh!
Mims/ ...to have it. So I .... I would hope that with .... some tinkering with the .... the border
between this development and the .... and the, uh, existing development, in terms of ..of
housing types and sizes, um, that we could create something. During the Council
meeting I asked about the setback. Um, and I know the answer was, well, if you go from
the 40 to the 25 you create more walkable, um, you know, slowing down traffic. I don't
think that's gonna happen here. McCollister is gonna be a major arterial street, carrying a
lot of traffic. I ... I don't .... see those sidewalks being more walkable by pushing them
closer to the street. I see it being more walkable if the sidewalks are actually pushed back
further from the street with more street trees, as John has talked about a lot, in between
those sidewalks and the curb.
Thomas/ Well the .... the other thing, just.....to keep in mind is in looking this up, it looks to me
like the, um, the right-of-way on McCollister and Gilbert is 100 -feet. So it's a wide
right-of-way. The, urn.... the.... the setback, um, if you will, from the .... the curb line to
the.... and .... edge of the right-of-way on McCollister is 30 -feet, just to the property line,
you know, and then we're talking about 40 -feet from there (laughs) so it .... it's .... that's
one reason I think narrowing the setback actually isn't such a bad idea because.....what
you're saying on McCollister, I forget what the .... I think it's at 25 to 15. You're still 55
feet, or 45 feet rather, from the curb. So it's....
Mims/ I didn't realize the right-of-way was that far (both talking)
Thomas/ ....in the Northside they're.... they're typically 80 -feet wide. Here it's 100 -feet. So
you're already quite a bit wider. Yeah, I think .... a phrase that just came to mind when
you were talking, Susan, was .... I think our goal is inclusionary by design. You know,
we.....we have inclusionary, urn..... zoning and .... and here if we can just accomplish it
without making a point of it, it's just blended in, uh, that should be our goal, and I think
that's..... that's what a neighborhood should be.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I like that phrase.....
Thomas/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ ....in this context, for sure. Any other comments on this particular point?
Botchway/ I .... I would just say as well, and this is just kind of, you know, thinking about what's
going to be, um, the property (clears throat) across the street from Gilbert, um, and then
also with Terry Trueblood, you know, something along those lines as well, and so I think
that it was incorporated in some of the design elements, but thinking about that park. I
know you mentioned it, um, I think is gonna be ... just really important, and I, you know,
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I think that some of the open space or some of the conversation that we had prior to this
was around that, but thinking about how that could be incorporated in some type of way
would be just a really cool community feel, um, if that was a part of it as well, and again,
that's .... you know, I'm not a developer (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Could you restate that a little bit? If. ... if what could be incorporated?
Botchway/ Just how it, you know, the .... the kind of. ... obviously we've talked about the building
types and just how, you know, the open space, you know, we talk about, you know, with
sidewalks and what that means and....I.....I guess I'm trying to think of, you know, how
can it be .... how can it be done or how can it be built in a way that speaks to the park too,
the Terry Trueblood. You know, what .... what can we .... what can we .... I know that John
always talks about, you know, how you change a street design is ultimately, you know,
what you may perceive will be, you know, being .... what you may perceive being used on
the street, based on how you design the street, and so thinking about that development,
you know, how it can be designed in a way that speaks to the park and use of the park or,
you know, what way.... whatever way that may seem, and again this is a very abstract
thought or abstract feeling, but I just wanted to not necessarily forget that the park is
there. I know you already mentioned it, but .... how that could, I mean, work or .... where
the buildings are located to not necessarily block the view of the park or (mumbled)
would be important as well.
Throgmorton/ I think the comer, uh, the eastern part of the comer of McCollister and South
Gilbert are crucial. It .... in the sense that I think there should be some structures and
activities there that attract people from the neighborhood and attract people from the
neighborhood immediately to the east, and .... and I know there's some language in the
Comp Plan, uh, pertaining to this. I don't know if rezoning would re .... be required, but
what I'm imagining is that there be at least .... one, maybe two structures at the comer that
would have some small-scale commercial activity within `em, probably a coffee shop or
something like that, and .... and that the, if it's at both corners of ...of, both of the eastern
corners of that intersection, then it could, the buildings could be designed in a way to
provide an .... a really attractive entryway into the larger neighborhood to the east. So I...
I don't know if that would cause .... if miss .... if the absence of that would cause me to
vote against a proposed development, but..... I think having that in the development
would make it far more likely I would support (laughter)
Freerks/ Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ ....a.....a development proposal.
Dyer/ One thing to keep in mind is that there's already been approval for a convenience store
across the street, um, and the Kum n' Go stores are very, very bright. Um ... housing op
......opposite them is not terribly pleasant.
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Throgmorton/ I .... I don't know. Bob, Karen, Sarah — is there anything we can do about that?
Might think about it. I don't know if you have to answer that question right now but
that... that's a good point.
Freerks/ Can you point out on the map where it ... just for public (mumbled)
Miklo (several talking) .....this property is zoned Community Commercial and, uh, it's owned by
Kum n' Go. I believe that will require a special exception through the Board of
Adjustment and we can look at some landscaping and lighting standards, uh, as part of
that.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, havin' the light go down instead of out. That's crucial.
Freerks/ Right.
Mims/ I hear what you're saying, Jim, about small retail or whatever on those corners, and .... in
....in an ideal world I really like that, but I'm also really reluctant to force that on a
developer if. ... if they can't see the real, um.....desire from the community or from
potential businesses to buy or lease that space. Um.....you know, I think when you, you
know, when you have a Kum n' Go across the street, I'm sorry, that right there is gonna
create a lot of competition for some of the types of businesses that might go in there, just
because the cost for which they can sell things and .... and speed and everything. Um, so
it.....I like the idea, but it would not be a factor for me in voting for this, because I
just .... I don't wanna see us start requiring that in neighborhoods and then we have all
these empty, small commercial spaces because there's no real demand. People don't...
don't feel that they really can make a living or have a ..... have a viable business in those
spaces.
Freerks/ We have done something in Saddlebrook, and Bob might be able to ... I think that's
where it was, where it was kind of mixed use and then it could transition from living
quarters to, uh, commercial or work -in-home kind of (several talking)
Miklo/ One of the original, uh, plans for Saddlebrook included a .... a building or two with
commercial on the ground floor. They came back and asked to amend that and so it was
designed so that it could be either or, uh, commercial or residential.
Throgmorton/ Bo .... Bob, do you Karen or Sarah or Ann know how many units are located in the
Peninsula, and then how many units would be located in this?
Miklo/ There are 410 units in the Peninsula.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Miklo/ There ... this proposal's 196.
Throgmorton/ Okay.
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Freerks/ One other thing to keep in mind is that the South District Plan does show a small
neighborhood commercial area further east along McCollister. The McCollister, at the
corner of Sycamore and McCollister and so there might be, um .... you know, we have to
pay attention to how much retail market there is down here and .... and which .... which
area we want to focus that kind of energy, um, as the South District develops further, um,
and we talk about missing middle.
Thomas/ Jim, I .... I'm really, uh, drawn to you idea of a gateway effect and I think that could be
achieved with the building design, to create .... and it looks to me in the way the zoning is,
um, set up there to ...... to do a similar thing down at Sycamore, so you have an
opportunity to kinda, uh.....you know, emphasize that threshold effect. Uh, I'm not
convinced commercial will be viable but it, you know, it may be something we can
flexibly consider in terms of the zoning, that it could go either way.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I get the point. So for me, the ... the, really the bottom line is neighborhood.
Will .... I think the .... the intersection, the development at the intersection, needs to signal
very clearly this is a neighborhood, and it's a good neighborhood. You're entering it
now. That kind of thing. Yeah. How bout parking? Whata y'all think about parking?
Thomas/ I would really like to avoid parking lots (laughs) I think, you know, when I look at
Peninsula, and um, I think, uh, Prairie Hill, uh, their approach where basically you have
parking bays along the main road going in to the .... into the .... into the development, but
no parking lots. I think...... especially in the location where they are in the proposed plan,
they're just plopped right down in the center. Um, so whether that, you know, I don't
know what the answer to that is (laughs) but it could be more, um.....more roadways!
You know I was looking at Peninsula, the blocks are .... less than 200 -feet long. Um, so it
may be that if we insert more narrow streets into the...... into the development area, that
would create more opportunity for street parking, which could better distribute the
parking, rather than concentrating it and .... you know, those .... those locations, um, that
unfortunately do seem to be kind of right where I kind of envision open space, you know,
something where you would be....it would be more a public realm than a parking lot.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, I don't picture.... open space. I picture small, uh, at least one small park
where at least one of those parking lots is, so that it'd be a place for parents to take their
kids, and for others to (both talking)
Thomas/ Well when I say open space, I .... I just mean, um, you know, a common area, um .... so,
yeah, to .... parking ...... you know, this is .... this is an area where you're.....you have to
expect households are going to have at least one car per household, so it .... it's, uh,
challenging, but I think, you know, it can be done if we .... if we look at trying to
distribute the parking requirement, um, more evenly rather than concentrating it.
Dickens/ But you do have to worry about if you don't have enough parking, they'll go into the
neighborhoods and park so .... you wanna avoid that. So it's gotta be a very good balance
between the two.
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Thomas/ Yeah.
Dickens/ And there is a lot of open space right now, in between a lot of these buildings, but....
like you said, there.... there's way to ..... ways to get around.
Throgmorton/ Bob, could you (others talking in background) put that other image up o£..of the
development? Please? Thank you.
Freerks/ I think there are even a couple of areas there that are not, don't even meet requirements,
where the parking actually, uh, facing Gilbert. I don't know, Bob, correct me if I'm
wrong, but there .... lot 1 and 2 there where you can't.....they're open to.....
Miklo/ This could be addressed with landscaping.....
Freerks/ Okay.
Miklo/ .....that area.
Freerks/ Cause we .... try not to have that open to a parking area like that to a main roadway.
Botchway/ Yeah, I would agree (both talking)
Freerks/ ......there's room to move (laughs) Yeah.
Botchway/ Yeah, I would agree. I mean going back to (clears throat) Jim's comment, and maybe
that was a little more kind of the articulation as far as .... and it (mumbled) I was kind of
thinking back, going down McCollister Boulevard and thinking what else is there, but
ultimately, I mean, you're moving in to the neighborhood at this point. Um, and going
back to Susan's point as far as this probably, I mean this is going to be a thoroughfare,
and so to that extent, this would maybe your first transition if you decided to take that
back way into the neighborhood, and so thinking about that and also thinking about how
you're ..... I drive this a lot, so .... coming down Gilbert Street, um, you know, just what
you were saying, Ann, as far as, um, any type of way to hide that parking. You know,
John, your comment as well as far as, you know, it does .... it does seem like it's .... it's not
in block style, I don't see it as that, but just.....1 don't (mumbled) about parking. I just
think that, you know, one I guess (laughs) from a balance perspective, I always want
more of it when I'm driving to a particular place, but I don't like to see parking as it's
manifested, especially if I'm driving past it in a particular way and so how .... how that's
covered or how that's designed, whether it's landscape or even, um, what those buildings
look like, I mean the buildings further south. You can see that there's, um, there's
housing that's blocking that parking. Um, I think needs .... needs to happen. I think I've
changed my mind around parking on street. You know, before I just.....it conceptually
didn't work for me. Now that I live in a neighborhood that I do it all the time now, I .... I
feel a little bit differently about it, and so I see where you're going. I .... I don't, again,
I'm not sure how that gets articulated, but that would be interesting for me as well.
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Walz/ So one of the things that developers started out with, which is not allowed in the zoning
code, is providing the parking on street.....for, and so I think we just have to be careful as
we go forward, um, how much required parking .... we don't .... we don't allow the
required parking to be on street, and one of the concerns of the neighborhood was spill-
over parking into the neighborhood. So .... what we were trying to get was they were
providing the minimum .... and whether you like the particular parking arrangement. I
know Ann had expressed Phoebe's concerns about separating the parking from the units,
but .... but they're not allowed to provide the parking on street. Um ... and the idea was that
visitor parking would be, you know, that you would allow the visitor parking to be
provided on the street. Um, and then that wouldn't spill over into the neighborhoods,
so....
Thomas/ I'll just throw into the conversation, you know, the ...... and I don't know where we are
in terms of looking at the Gilbert Street design, but, um, I think it's 50 -feet wide now,
and uh.... I think there....is a possibility of, um, cause I'm .... I'm not imagining bike lanes
being in this.....in this location, along the curb line, because we have the trail running
along the, um, the west side there already. Anyway, um, it seems to me there may be a
possibility, given how wide that street is, to allow parking along the east side of Gilbert
Street, the frontage of this project. Not necessarily for the count toward...you know, the
parking for the .... the dwellings, but... providing additional parking for visitors along
Gilbert Street, along that frontage.
Cole/ I guess my concern is is I don't want to try to introduce too many variables into the
discussion. I'm a big advocate of various parking innovation, but at least for my own
purposes, um, parking is not a deal breaker either way for this particular development. At
least for my vote it will not sway it and I'll defer to the developer as to this particular
point, but I think to your point, Jim, with that neighborhood and transition. If those can
be the themes, I think we'll get there.... assuming that they know what that means, and I
know that they do.
Throgmorton/ Does anybody want to raise other points that we haven't touched on? Any
Commissioners wanna.... probe us about any particular things?
Dyer/ One point about, uh, affordable housing. Um, some folks don't have cars and, um,
everything I read is that we're moving away from everybody having their own car or at
least multiple cars, and .... and having public transportation come here and also....
emphasizing the accessibility by bike would seem to be appealing. It's a .... Gilbert
Street's nearly flat so it's a good place to bike to, to get into the rest of the city.
Throgmorton/ I agree, Carolyn. Thank you for bringing that up. I ... the bicycle part of it I think
is already.... clear, I mean people are.... developers are gonna build that into this project.
But the public transit part, I don't really see that there yet, and it seems to me that needs
to be built in from the get -go.
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Parsons/ Jim, if I could .... sorry, if I could add to Carolyn's thing. Uh, to me this part of Gilbert
Street, um, seems like an ideal candidate for even road dieting, to even allow for those
bike lanes on both sides. (mumbled) like you said it's a wide street and I think it'd be
safer to cross, for people to access Terry Trueblood, for a road diet and you could put a
traffic circle, or traffic signals, so .... people kind of have that middle refuge in the road,
um, so they don't have as many lanes to cross.
Throgmorton/ Like, I don't know, from the .... from the intersection north, if ...am I inferring
correctly?
Parsons/ Yeah.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Parsons/ Correct. Cause I think it goes down to two lanes once it gets to County property,
doesn't it?
Throgmorton/ Well I guess that'd be up to the Council and staff, so.....
Walz/ (both talking) ...we are, you know, doing the study, the Gilbert Street corridor study. The
area south of the highway is .... is an optimal candidate for a road diet. There is a desire,
as expressed in the, um, bicycle master plan for the potential for bike lanes along here
because this is probably our most popular bicycle route for people riding down the lulls
and back is a .... is a popular route, and a lot of people prefer.....a lot of the more serious
cyclists like to bike on the street. Um, the developer has been very involved in ... with the,
um, Gilbert Street study in providing, um, feedback and that road diet then provides a .... a
better transition for folks .... are not having to go across four lanes of traffic to cross sides,
um, of the street, and we've even talked about, um, you know, as development occurs
down here, opportunities that may exist for, um, median refuge islands, so for example
where you see the trail to the north of the development, crossing over toward Napoleon,
that's an opportunity there to create a median refuge island so it's safer for people,
especially people who might, you know, not be able to dash (laughs) across a wide street.
I mean we do have people who cross through this area on ... wheel, in wheelchairs. So,
um, that's a potential for the future too, but all those things are being looked at and ... and
....and you'll be hearing about.....more about that in coming months.
Freerks/ Guess I just have one more thing that .... I'm only going to be around for like six more
months on Planning and Zoning so I'm gonna say it publicly, but (laughs) I've said it
before in, uh, in .... uh, talked about some South District planning, and the fact that, you
know, I think we talk about missing middle and missing.....I think we could use a more
expensive housing in the southern part of Iowa City too, and I think there's nothing
wrong with that. There's so many amenities there, and you want to have people of all
types of incomes, having some skin in the game that they want to be able to like, um, be a
part of Southeast Junior High or whatever, you know I just think that....I.....I work at the
University and so many people come in and say, you know I was told `Don't buy a house
down in southern Iowa City,' and why wouldn't you? Because they're affordable
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(laughs) based on, you know, if you look at the whole map, plus there's so much going
on, there's so many things to do in that part of Iowa City. So I personally have no
problem if someone wanted to build .... very nice and expensive homes there, as well as,
and I'm saying as well as, affordable housing. The key is to have something for everyone
there to try to, I think, um, continue bringing this neighborhood, you know, as it
develops, it's just gonna become some .... it's just gonna be a gem, I think, in the
community, and that's why I don't want this to be just a piece of. ... of apartment
complexes. I wa.... I think it needs to be something more.
Throgmorton/ This is why I like John's concept of using missing middle.... concepts to
produce.... um.....(several talking in background) inclusive by design. You know?
(several responding)
Mims/ I would just piggyback on Rockne's comment earlier in terms of kind of the .... the make
or break, um, you know, to help.....maybe help the developers. Um, I think we've all
talked the infrastructure and some sort of control at the intersection, and a .... a better, I
know people said they don't like the word transition, but when you have an existing
neighborhood and a new neighborhood, I do call it transition from the existing to the
new. A little better transition, um, from the existing to the new, and a little more variety,
um, I think in the sizes and design of the buildings that, um, make it feel .... that it .... that
it is and feels more diverse housing types than certainly what this diagram looks like.
Throgmorton/ Anybody else?
Thomas/ (mumbled) the only other thought I have is ... is, um, this .... notion of, you know, how
strong is what's sometimes referred to as the `public realm,' you know, the .... the, that
realm in which we're, and say in this instance, you know, we leave our homes and we
engage with our neighbors, and what are the opportunities within.... within this area,
what .... what's the, you know, the ... the framework for that, you know, how is it that you
encounter, uh, and engage your neighbors. The Peninsula and Prairie Hill both, one
element of that in terms of the housing design is the, and it's not every unit, but there are
a fair number of front porches. That's.... that's kind of a transition itself, between, you
know, the house and the sidewalk, so that you can hang out on your front porch and it
provides an opportunity for something to happen there. Uh, so ... how we develop that
public realm and how it integrates this... proposed development with the existing
neighborhoods so that you can go for a walk through the neighborhood and pass from
here into McCollister Court and then perhaps even go further, uh, maybe up into, um, you
know, the .... the open space there to the north, at, uh, Preserve. Uh, so what ... what's the
choreography of that? How do you flow through that space, create opportunities for
engaging, lingering, um.....that's, you know, in .... in the Northside, that's really what
makes our neighborhood, is that we ... we have that social life, um, that .... that connects us
to varying degrees. It may just be hello.
Throgmorton/ Yeah, a key example of that is North Market Square Park.
Thomas/ Uh huh.
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Throgmorton/ Which is .... surrounded by various kinds of housing, and it's a place to which
parents and kids, etc., and others.... go! They enjoy being there, because it's..... it's an
attractive .... uh, part of the public realm. And I .... I would hope that the developer could
incorporate such a space.... appropriately sized, such a space, in this project.
Thomas/ I'm .... I'm glad you brought that up, Jim, cause that is .... the last point (laughs) is....is
with traditional neighborhoods they have a center. They traditionally always have a
center, uh, and .... you know, that's what the Northside's is, North Market Square, um,
symbolically I would say. So, yeah, to .... to the degree, and .... we can create that. It
doesn't have to be large, but um.....you know, somewhere where we, you know, if
something should happen, where would people go in this neighborhood to kind of be with
their neighbors, uh, or if they wanted to have a .... an event that ... you know, was large
enough to.....to.....for such a thing to happen, to have a neighborhood gathering, you
know, that's (noises on mic, unable to hear speaker)
Throgmorton /Okay! Anybody else have anything to say? I think we've done the best we can
do. Thank you, Commissioners. (several responding) For sharing your views about this
(both talking)
Freerks/ Thanks for having us!
Throgmorton/ I guess we can move on ... well, I'll wait for you folks to leave. Thank you!
(several talking and laughing in background) Okay, are we ready to start back up? All
right, good deal. So we should turn to clarification of agenda items.
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Item 4d(7) Support of Carbon Fee and Dividend Program - Resolution calling on
the United States Congress to pass a Revenue Neutral Carbon Fee and Dividend
Program
Botchway/ I guess .... how are we.....how are we addressing this in the meeting?
Throgmorton/ Sorry, what do you mean?
Dickens/ The carbon (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Uh, well, I .... yeah. I think we should pull it for separate consideration.
Botchway/ Okay (mumbled)
Fruin/ Which one's that? (several talking) Okay.
Throgmorton / So I should make a note of that as well. Thank you for asking about that,
Kingsley.
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Item 4f(5) Acting Sr. Transportation Engineering Planner: Removal of on -street
odd/even calendar parking terms on the 100 block of S Johnson Street,
establishment of "No Parking Monday — Saturday 8:00 a.m. — 6:00 p.m." parking
prohibition on the west side of the 100 block of S Johnson Street, and installation of
13 on -street metered parking spaces and establishment of parking meter terms on
the east side of the 100 block of S Johnson Street.
Thomas/ One .... one item that I had a .... the item raised a question in my mind, had .... is 4(5),
having to do with the parking meters on the 100 block of South Johnson. (clears throat)
Um, with all the construction work going on around there, I.....I'm a little bit concerned
with .... how many parking spaces we may have lost, um.....with the fencing that's gone
up around some of these construction sites. And, um .... so I'm worried a little bit, you
know, cause like New Pioneer kinda relies on street parking. They don't have much off-
street parking. So I mean I think this is good. It sort of reminded me, oh good! We have
more metered parking around there, but I .... I began to ask myself.....is it enough, you
know, is .... has New Pioneer contacted the City and raised concerns about the fact that,
you know, parking is .... and I don't .... I don't know what the .... if all that parking is being
lost for a year and a half or .... or what, but a fair amount has been taken out.
Fruin/ Yeah, uh, not to my knowledge they haven't contacted us, but that's not to say they might
have talked to somebody else, uh, in the City that just hadn't been reported up to our
office. Um, certainly there's a lot of work going on.....on this corridor now, uh, for the
most part those metered spots along the City Hall, um, frontage there will be gone for the
duration of the project. I think the ones, um, immediately, um, that'd be to the far south
end, uh, where we have, uh, our parking lot, um .... by the New Pi entrance, could be
restored sooner, obviously they're doing some off-site utility work right now to prep for
the project. Um, but .... given the fact that we are losing that back lot, we're also gonna
have to take all of our City deliveries in through that area too, so the .... if we are able to
open it up, I imagine it'll be, uh, closed at different increments throughout the project.
This particular item, 4f(5) is related to the conversation of course that you had a couple,
uh, month or so ago around the .... the College Green area. Uh, staff looked at that and,
uh, felt comfortable moving forward with this one segment, with the idea that we can see
how it's go, how those meters are used, and uh, if in the future we need to place
additional meters in that vicinity around the park, that we'd be able to do that.
Item 4d(3) Sanitary Sewer Easement - Resolution authorizing the Mayor to sign and
the City Clerk to attest to a sanitary sewer easement on the lot located at the
southeast corner of Bayard Street and Lusk Avenue.
Throgmorton/ Geoff, with regard to Item 4d(3), the sanitary sewer easement on ..... the corner of
Bayard and Lusk. Did you have a chance to talk with .... to communicate with Karen
Southard about that so that they knew .... this would be (both talking)
Fruin/ I let them know it was on the agenda. She acknowledged the email but didn't ask any
questions.
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Throgmorton/ Okay. Good. Thank you. Anything else with regard to the agenda? It's pretty
short. (laughs)
Dickens/ (mumbled) before, so....
Throgmorton/ Yeah!
Fruin/ I .... I would point out one thing, and I apologize if we've mentioned this before, but I
think this is the first one. You're setting a hearing on a UniverCity sale for 521 Governor
and I believe, um, that this would be the first one that we have increased the deed
restriction period from 20 years to 30 years on .... uh, that was part of the discussion at the
affordable.... with the Affordable Housing Action Plan.
Throgmorton /Good! Okay, Info Packet discussion, November 22nd
Information Packet Discussion [November 22, November 301:
Thomas/ (mumbled) thanks to, uh, Stefan for the memo, IP2.
Throgmorton/ You mean with regard to the report on racial equity?
11ItT4MI A -M$I
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Botchway/ Yeah, so I have a couple of questions in regards to that. Um, some of the questions
are related to tonight. I'm just gonna go through a list of `em. Um.....um, and I don't
necessarily have the page numbers cause I'm looking at my notes and for some reason
I'm not able to flip back and forth between how I marked in the agenda and how I
marked in my notes, so I apologize. Um, you know I looked at the (clears throat)
basically a lot of it was focused on the population, and so I did write that down, 83%
white, 6% black, 7% Asian, and 5% Hispanic. I mention that because as it relates to
boards and commissions, I think we are direly underrepresented. Now I know that 130
people were surveyed, 80 responded. I know that's a survey situation and so, you know,
urn ..... (clears throat) I don't know how we get that rate up. Um, as .... as far as making
sure that we can, you know, adequately look at our numbers, but when I looked at our
representation overall, it looked like we had I%, and again help me if I'm reading this
wrong, 1 % Hispanic in 2014 and 15, and 0% in 2016, and then I% Asian in 2016, none
in 2015 and 14, or .... yeah, none in 2015, 14. You know, that's a problem, and one of the
things I just want to focus on, especially as we're thinking about our strategic plan around
social justice and racial equity, um, is ensuring that people .... the people that we are .... we
are, I don't want to use the word `dictating,' but the people that we're legislating, or the
people that, um, are ultimately, um, going to, urn ...... be told or be addressed with these
particular issues are a part of the conversation, and this speaks to me that they're not a
part of the conversation. Um, and that's a problem for me, and so .... as we think about,
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even when I looked at the board and commission packet that we had .... we had to go
through as far as deliberation tonight, I can tell you right now that that was one of my
focus areas. I wonder whether or not that can be a key focus area, similar to where we
have, you know, I know that that's legally required to, uh, one .... two male or one none or
two female and one none, and whether or not we can require that as far as have it
additional level or.. A don't know, component of diversity that's added on there, across
all of our board and commissions. I'm not necessarily focused just on, you know, the
Human Rights Commission or the HCDC or whatever. Because I would even question to
know whether or not the .... the diversity that we do see within the board and commission,
um, diagram speaks to the board and commissions across all of them. Um .... and so
that's another concern that I have. Um.....
Throgmorton/ On that point....
Botchway/ Yeah!
Throgmorton/ Eleanor, does State law, uh, mandate that we do .... that we, uh, have a balance
of ...a gender balance or .... but it's only gender balance, right, with regard to State law?
Yeah.
Dilkes/ And the Council chose .... that applies to, uh, board and commission required by State law
and the....the Council chose to extend that to all boards and commissions.
Throgmorton/ But there.... there's no State requirement with regard to....
Dilkes/ No!
Throgmorton/ .....membership by other members of the community, right? Okay.
Botchway/ And there's nothing prohibiting.
Dilkes/ Under State law?
Botchway/ Yeah, there would be nothing prohibiting us adding diversity.
Dilkes/ There's nothing under State law that would prohibit it. We'd have to look at it in terms
of other issues.
Throgmorton /Yeah, I take the point. I certainly was looking at that in this particular case with
regard to .... Hispanic or Latino representation and seeing zero and yet, I don't know, 6
1/2% or something like that of our population is Hispanic, so .... yeah.
Botchway/ All right. A couple of other questions, urn .... this has to do with the Iowa City
workforce, you know, where are we at with the diversity of staff, um, can we see the
breakdown by employment category (mumbled) that data by employment, um,
categories, having a more clear conversation as far as what are the barriers, and then what
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other cities have done, and so I know that some of us attended the GAR training. This
was a part of the GAR training that I attended with Davenport that specifically focused
on what they're doing as far as diversity. I know that their numbers didn't necessarily
represent what they were doing, um, because I know it's tough, um, to .... to see that
diversification of staff, but some type of, I mean the report is obviously appreciated,
looking at the numbers, but what that looks like I think is important as well, as far as
what it looks like in different employment categories. That's something, you know, I
look at at the School District. While you can say we're doing well from a diversity
standpoint across the board, that dorsi... that diversity is heavily located in our support
staff and not necessarily in our teachers at all. And so having that .... so I can make more
of an apples to apples comparison, I think, is important. I wanted to.....
Throgmorton/ There's no difficulty in providing that information to us, is there?
Fruin/ No I don't.....I think we can do that. I think some of it was....has probably been shared
(clears throat) excuse me, in other ways and hopefully you've seen through some of the
reports that we've done, that we are putting a huge emphasis on that. In our recruitment
processes we've redone a lot of things, whether it's police and fire testing or just our
normal processes to .... to try to do better in that area, but we could pull together a report
and get that to ya.
Botchway/ Thanks. And last, this is just a comment, and I know that we are kind of going back
to Geoff s point, we're doing some of the things in those areas. Um, but if you look at
the traffic stops, um, you know, similar populations of Asians and Blacks in our
community have drastically different numbers. This isn't a surprise to anybody. It's
definitely not a surprise to me since (mumbled) things I campaigned on, um, four years
ago or five years ago now, whatever that is. Four years ago. Um, so I mean .... you know,
if. ... if you're.....if you're 20 to 29 year old in our community, I mean it's tough, and I
know that's not necessarily .... that's an unduplicated or that's a .... that's a duplicated
count that was given, and so it could be similar .... I think it was a duplicated count that
was given, so similar individuals could be racking up charges as it relates to traffic stops,
but it just seemed like that number was definitely out of proportion as compared with the
other, uh, demographic groups. And there's some other questions here, but those are my
major concerns or questions I wanted to highlight.
Throgmorton/ Anyone else with regard to the November 22" packet? If not, how bout the
November 30 packet?
Cole/ I wanted to address IP5, and for audience out there, um, this was an article in which it
indicates that Moody's warns cities to address climate risks or face downgrades to the
city's financial position. Um, I think that's an extremely important development. Geoff,
you're the one that shared that with us. Um, you know normally you think of climate
change, you know, we've always sort of intuitively known that it does have a financial
impact. We all know that, uh, but there are .... there is a certain segment that sort of tends
to look at that as sort of more of an idealistic, you know, let's get back to business, brass
tacks, um, but I think what this shows is that in the age that we are now living in, efforts
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like our climate change task force is actually critical, uh, to sort of maintaining our triple-
A bond rating. Uh, so I think it's really good to get that information out there, uh,
moving forward and I thank Geoff for sharing that. I think it really matches two things
we're trying to achieve, uh, maintain the triple-A bond rating, coupled with our
environmental efforts, and it's nice to see convergence there happening.
Botchway/ So it did beg the question.... how are we, what are we doing in regards to it. I mean
obviously we're doing things.....
Mims/ We're not on the coast, I mean if you read the whole thing, I mean the fact that we're not
on the coast, I don't (both talking)
Botchway/ It didn't specifically .... yeah, so it targeted some communities in general that (both
talking)
Mims/ Right, that are much more vulnerable (both talking)
Fruin/ It's looking at disaster risk, particular.... particularly disasters related to climate change —
weather related — and certainly we're susceptible and we know that, to increased flooding
(both talking) um, we've been pretty aggressive since 2008 in ... in implementing
our .... our, uh, flood strategy, um, but I .... I do realize the article was kind of focused on
the coasts there, but .... I think if. ... if Moody's is certainly asking those questions in those
high risk areas, they're gonna start looking at our area too, uh, because of the experience
we've had along the Iowa River. So, the flood buyout program, uh, all the infrastructure,
um, changes that we've made to better protect ourselves, those are all critically important.
Botchway/ And will that, I mean .... so, I mean, I agree with your point. Will that be incorporated
or will we be looking at that as far as our next like .... audit or whatever around Moody's?
Fruin/ Yeah, you know, Mo .... Moody's, when we go to sell bonds again, they'll engage in a
rating call with us and .... and we never really know exactly what questions they will ask.
We're just anticipating they will, so we'll be prepared to .... to talk about what we've
done, uh, and I think we're frankly in a .... in a very good spot, but to Rockne's point, it
reinforces the emphasis that the Council has placed on, uh, on climate change.
Throgmorton/ I'd like to make a comment about IP #4, which is basically a report that Ginalie
Swaim and Alicia Trimble provided us concerning the Sanxay-Gilmore house at 109 E.
Market. Uh, I'm assuming you all had a chance to read that short but .... well argued
report. And I want to tell you that Geoff and I met with President Harreld, Rod Lehnertz,
Peter Mathis today to talk about that, and I started, uh, I'm gonna provide a very concise
summary of this, Geoff, if you want to elaborate on anything please do. I started by
urging the President to use creativity and ingenuity to preserve this .... what we
understand is the oldest surviving house in Iowa City. Uh, a house that has strong
historical connections for both the University and for the City. And by that I meant
building harmonious around the Sanxay-Gihnore house, rather than demolishing it. So
that led to a frank and fruitful discussion about the complexities associated with .... with,
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uh.... uh, what the University is currently doing, and what the alternatives are. We agreed
that they and we would meet again after we've had a chance to discuss the alternatives
more thoroughly, and it's my understanding that we have a few months to do that. So,
I ... I did .... I don't want to go into great detail about that, but it was a pretty fruitful
discussion. Geoff, do you want to elaborate in any way? Yeah. Each of the alternatives
has its complexities and upsides and downsides. All right. Uh, IP6, KXIC
inter... interviews. Could I volunteer for January the P please?
Thomas/ I'd like January the 10a'
Botchway/ (mumbled) (laughter) Usually I try to jump in and somebody snatched all three of
`em (laughs) December (both talking)
Mims/ You get two .... you get two, Kingsley! (laughter) Spread `em out.
Botchway/ December 27a'. I figured I'd take that one since I'll be in town.
Dickens/ (mumbled) (laughter)
Mims/ I'll take December 20`s.
Cole/ I'll do ..... has February 7a' been taken yet?
Throgmorton/ Not yet!
Cole/ I'll take February 7`s1.
Botchway/ I can do ... January3l". I also have in my notes maybe, you know, as I hear may want
an introduction or something along those lines (several talking) so I ... well I put that one
as maybe she could do it with and then if she decides or ... or wants to do it by herself we
can just switch.
Throgmorton/ And we need to have one of these set aside for a department head or a pair of
department heads.
Botchway/ Oh, that's true.
Throgmorton/ I don't know... just pick one!
Fruehling/ December 13a', January 17'b, and January 24a' left.
Mims/ I'll go ahead and take January 24°i.
Throgmorton/ I need to be in that mix again somewhere, but.....what were the dates? (several
responding)
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Fruehling/ ....January 17'h
Throgmorton/ I think I have a conflict on December 13a' and I don't have my calendar in front of
me so.....
Botchway/ You were saying that one could be a department head meeting?
Throgmorton/ Yeah, well .... yeah. Yeah, so.....December 13', if...if that's okay with staff.
Fruin/ Sure!
Throgmorton/ Pauline's gonna have to have one of these.
Fruehling/ January 17`s is all that's left.
Throgmorton /It's hers, unless she can't do it and then we'll figure something out. (several
talking in background) Are we good to go on that? Excellent!
Botchway/ Um .... oh, go ahead, Jim.
Throgmorton/ I think we're at Council updates on assigned boards, commissions, etc.
Botchway/ I was going to quickly mention IP10, just want to.....cause Charlie's in the audience.
I appreciate the changes or at least the motion for the changes, um, for the HCDC
Commission. Um, you know, change.....I think, Charlie, you.... and you can correct me.
I can tell by your eyebrows either going up or down whether or not it's right. Um, you
changed that (mumbled) criteria, um, and I think that was a .... a really good move as far
as, you know, how we can focus and provide more balance as it relates to, um, some of
the things, and so it was a change from, uh, reducing from 50 points to 35 points, urn ... I
thought it was a good change. And increasing from 20 to 30 as far as impact in benefits.
Sorry, I missed that part.
Council updates on assigned boards, commissions and committees:
Throgmorton/ Okay, anything else on that Information Packet? Alrighty. Council updates on
assigned boards, etc. Rockne, could you start (both talking)
Cole/ ...start with two things. One I wanted to follow up on our MPOJC meeting in which one of
the very interesting things that we discussed was this concept of, uh, rail between the City
of Iowa City and North Liberty, and I tell ya.... MPOJC, I think it's one of the most
important, um, bodies that not a lot of people know about. It's essentially a planning
body with various members from local, uh, surrounding communities participate in to
ensure that we adequately have input into these things, and one of the issues that came up
was the request for a third funding, uh, study is my understanding. Is that what we're
looking at, Susan? And we were asked to sort of go back and sort of caucus between our
boards to see whether we would support that and I'm hoping we will, and I gotta tell ya,
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I'm really excited about it, at least in the number.... and this, by the way, if it ever
happens, five, six, seven years into the future, so it's not immediate, uh, but I think that
the concept of $30 to $40 million spread out over all the various communities with an
existing railway, um, it was just really exciting to me, so if we can do anything to move
that ball forward. I understand that it's the third stage, uh, that we have to sort of at least
weigh in our input, so hopefully we would be willing to support that. Um .... and then the
other thing was is that we finished up a great successful year with the City of Literature.
Uh, finished up with a wonderful, um, meeting at The View, which was actually my first
time up there. Uh, beautiful facility. It was fun to see the skyline of the City of Iowa
City and it was just a great.... great experience. One concept that came up is that there....
we are now in the process of gonna having short story, uh, vending machine type thing,
where if you're waiting in various parts throughout the city of Iowa City, you'll be able
to push a button and get a little two to three-minute story that you can read. So
there... evidently they have this at Penn State. So sort of stay tuned. You're gonna (both
talking)
Botchway/ ....Iowa City (both talking)
Cole/ Yes! And so we had some concerns about the sustainability issue, um, in terms of having
this ... this paper that we're dispensing, but they'll figure that out. So stay tuned for that,
that was really exciting thing that we focused on. So hopefully we'll support the third
stage. I don't know if there's enough time to bring that up, Jim, but .... um, I was really
excited about it.
Throgmorton/ Well is there any opposition to that, or do we need to discuss it more thoroughly
with the staff?
Fruin/ If I recall, I think I have the authority to authorize that type of (both talking) expenditure
and I .... I think I have in the last two studies, unless you tell me otherwise. We'll be a
willing participant.
Throgmorton/ I think we'd like you to do it. I want to also note that Ryan Sempf and I had a
discussion about light rail going up to North Liberty, and about the Chamber's interest in
that and .... you know, I agreed! (laughs) So, you know, I think our Council's fully on
board with the idea of at least investigating it more thoroughly. Okay, Terry?
Dickens/ Paratransit, I went to my last Paratransit meeting, and uh.... pretty much the main focus
was, uh, there was a delay in getting the last two new buses into service, and it was
mainly just a computer problems with the, uh, computer pads, and supposedly we have
some pads that will work and so they'll get those in. They're very appreciative of the
City of Iowa City, you know, leading the way with bringing all these new buses on line.
So, um, that was the main focus of it, uh, the rest of it was mainly going over new
regulations for riders and ... and providers, how they can .... how they can deal with the
changes in the laws, and they're still kind of in limbo there. They'll have to wait and see,
but .... and, uh... you'll have to put somebody on there, but uh, I think Pauline is interested
so .... and.....they, I think somebody's already talked to her from the .... from the, uh,
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Paratransit that would be very interested in her taking that position. So.....it's a great
group, so ... it was a lot of fun.
Botchway/ CJCC hasn't met in a while. Um.....and I'll miss my Rules Committee partner.
We've done a lot of work over the last (both talking)
Dickens/ It's been exhausting (several talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/ Susan?
Mims/ Uh, we had another Steering Committee meeting for the access center, uh, yesterday.
Moving forward, um, there's.... we're getting to the point of, um, I would say a lot of the
nitty gritty. Uh, I think the big decision has kind of been made, as I mentioned, that the
County is .... they have a Hoyt paper that ... have you received that, Geoff?
Fruin/ I did. It'll .... I believe it'll be in your next Info Packet.
Mims/ Okay, thank you. Kind of a white paper from the County on how they see this moving
forward, um, we'll need to have some discussion on that, on the potential 28E agreements
and our involvement with that. The Steering Committee is more with the providers, um,
so the non -profits that are involved and, uh, people from the University and particularly
emergency medicine, and .... so really looking at a lot of the.... starting to try and figure
out a lot of the details. There's ... an incredible, incredible complexity with this thing in
terms of, uh, the providing of services and the contracts and the licensing and the codes
that are used to get reimbursement from the insurance companies and Medicaid and,
urn .... so yeah! So we're just startin' to go down that rabbit hole, if you will, on all those
details, so.....yep! It's (several talking) yeah, it's gonna be challenging, but.....that can
be happening at the same time as the County is trying to figure out a facility, so ... we can
at least move kind of simultaneously on those tracks now.
Throgmorton/ Okay! John?
Thomas/ One.....one other item that came up at the MP .... MPOJC related to the, um, study that
Iowa DOT is conducted is .... uh, their .... their believe and feeling that, uh, widening I-380
from the interchange to Cedar Rapids from four lanes to six lanes is necessary. And, uh,
you know, most of us are on MPOJC (laughs) urn ...... but you know as a.....as a major
city within the corridor, um, I don't feel that benefits us as a city. I, uh, I don't think it
benefits us as a state. That's .... I asked what this would cost. They didn't give us a price
tag. But, um.....you know, I'm a firm believer that when you have congestion, you
know, whatever level and however you interpret that congestion to be, uh, the .... the first
thing you want to try to do is address it at the demand side rather than adding supply.
Becaues, you know, coming from California I've seen the future, and it doesn't work.
You widen a freeway, it fills up really fast. And then we'll be complaining about the six
lanes of congestion rather than the four. So, urn .... you know, I .... I don't know, I'm just
passing on the information, um.....I....it is a concern to me. Uh, it would take a, I think,
clearly a concerted effort to.....you know.....
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Mims/ To stop it?
Thomas/ To stop it, um, although I did see an article on City Observatory, I don't know how
many of you know that web site. It's pretty interesting, but .... you know, there are
practices (mumbled) pricing, uh, basically what we're doing is we're providing a free
good, and that's not the .... the way to approach congestion. The way to approach
congestion is to say well we're going to, you know, if you want to.....if you want to drive
this corridor at commute hours, it may cost you a little bit more. So people figure out
that, hm, maybe I better carpool or maybe I better drive a little bit earlier, or a little bit
later. There are so many ways congestion can be reduced, short of widening the
roadway. And, um, and yet that's.... that's where it stands.
Throgmorton/ So the MPO has no control over this, right?
Thomas/ Well I mean ...... our previous, you know, came up about two years ago was the
interchange. And I know Susan....
Mims/ You and I voted against that.
Thomas/ ...voted against that, and uh, you know, in talking with Kent, in fact I think Kent may
have brought this up .... at our last meeting, if we as an MPO were to vote no on the
widening, Caltrans would probably find another way to fund it. (several responding) I'm
sorry! (laughter) I was just talking about California! (several talking and laughing) It's
my California slip. I sometimes forget! Um, so I don't know, but I .... it's .... still as a,
um, position, you know, I don't think that should mean we back down if we believe that
there are better, more cost efficient ways of addressing congestion. Um, and let the chips
fall, but you know, it does suggest to me do we want to try to reach out to Cedar Rapids,
because I think Cedar Rapids would be impacted as well. Um .... and see if we can't build
bridges and coalitions, um, you know, to address this.
Mims/ Well, and quite frankly, every taxpayer in the state of Iowa, and even nationally, is going
to be impacted, I mean, more statewide because this is gonna be state dollars and federal
dollars, and it's gonna be, I mean, you know, we're lookin' at close to $400 million just
for that interchange, which personally I think it's absolutely absurd. Um, so .... you know,
slow .... slow the traffic down. Um, and so, you know, this is money that could be going
to other things in the state of Iowa rather than, you know, the interchange or putting in an
extra two lanes. And they were real candid, the reason they were going on the outside...
was to preserve the right-of-way before it gets developed, so if they needed eight lanes,
the next two lanes could go in the inside. So they're.... they're already thinking eight
lanes eventually.
Throgmorton/ That's nuts! So, if. ... if it were up to me (laughs) and if I thought it would do any
good, I'd say let's, as a Council, and as ... you six representatives of the Council on the
MPO, say we don't want this. We don't support it.
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Mims/ There's no decision before us at this point, so.....and unfortunately I'm concerned that the
way these things work that by the time there's a deci... decision in front of us, it really has
already been made at the state level.
Throgmorton/ Yeah.
Botchway/ And I would say for me, I mean there's .... and I know you warm go, Jim, so I'll keep
it brief. I'm not necessarily on the side of not adding additional lanes. You know, and so
I mean I get where you're comin' from, John, and I appreciate that comment because you
have lived in .... you have lived in it where it hasn't worked, and I lived in it when you
could, I mean, it ultimately hasn't worked as well, in the same way you're thinking of it,
but.....you know, I .... you know I ..... I don't know. I still have some concerns.
Throgmorton/ It's never worked anywhere well. But anyhow, we don't need to talk about that
anymore. All right, uh, I have nothing to report with regard to boards or commissions.
There was no Convention and Visitors Bureau board meeting, no Partnership for Alcohol
Safety meeting. Anything else? All right, we'll adjourn the work session and get back
together at 7:00.
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