HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-04-02 Transcriptions Page I
Council Present: Botchway, Cole, Mims, Salih, Taylor, Thomas, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Monroe, Andrew, Dilkes, Fruehling, Havel, Sovers, Knoche, Seydell-
Johnson, Bockenstedt, W. Ford, Ralston, Bowers, Hightshoe
Others Present: Stewart (UISG)
Discuss design parameters for American Legion Road, Foster Road and McCollister Road
projects FIP2 of 3/29 Info Packet]:
Throgmorton/All right so....we're gonna convene the Iowa City City Council work session for
Monday, April the 2m1. The first topic is to discuss design parameters for American
Legion Road, Foster Road, and McCollister Road projects, and uh, I know Jason's gonna
make a presentation to us. Uh, before you speak, Jason, I....I want to indicate what I
understand our purpose to be tonight. It's first of all to listen carefully to what the staff is
presenting to us, so that we know how they're thinking, and then to provide guidance
about what we want done, and I don't know what that guidance is gonna be—we'll find
out. It depends on....our discussion. So, Jason!
Havel/Yes! Thank you. Jason Havel, City Engineer. Uh, here to talk a little bit about road...
roadway design parameters, and specifically, uh, as they relate to the upcoming projects,
the American Legion Road, Foster Road, and McCollister Boulevard projects. So,
kickin' things off here, uh,just kind of an overview of what we're gonna go through. Uh,
I'm gonna talk a little bit about general project considerations, so those'll be the items
that really apply to, uh, all the projects. Some of the, kind of the background
information, and then I'll kind of get into specific information for each of the projects.
Uh, you should have in front of you a copy of the presentation here, um, it's an exact
copy. Uh, the only thing is obviously it's not in color. So the one thing I would, uh, note
is for the bicycle master plan. That's really the only place where color will matter, but
I'll go through and kind of talk about those items specifically but, um, everything else I
think will come out a little clearer, maybe in your copy versus what's on the screen, but
....if you have any questions, obviously feel free to ask any time. Urn, and so I guess the
other thing is, as I go through this, sort of what I was envisioning is I'll go through, kind
of go through the general project considerations, and then I don't know if you wanna stop
there and....and kind of have some discussion or if you want me to go through all of the
projects and....and do it at the end. I'll leave that up to you and....um, you can just let
me know (both talking)
Throgmorton/We'll see!
Havel/ So starting things off here, um, obviously, uh, the first point I want to make is,uh, all
these projects will include utility improvements. So that'll be, urn, public. There also
will be some where we'll look at doing, whether it's a joint trench or relocating of some
private utilities. That'll be part of all these projects. Obviously that's....I'm guessing
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that's not really the, uh, topic for tonight. So I made that assumption. I wanted to note
that, but I'm not really going to go into any detail there. So, obviously if you have any
questions let me know, but uh, I'm gonna kind of glaze over that portion of it. So, really
starting things off with the complete streets policy. I've put a couple of quotes here from
our complete streets policy,just kind of that help guide what we're lookin' to do on....on
all our projects really. Uh, the first one bein' obviously that all current projected users of
the public right-of-way are intended to conveniently reach their destinations via public
rights-of-way regardless of their chosen mode of transportation. And then the second one
being, provide for the....for the needs of all users and abilities in all planning, design,
construction, reconstruction, retrofit, operations, and maintenance activities and projects
within the public right-of-way. I promise that'll be the last part that I read. (laughter)
But really, you know, that last point's what I'm tryin' to get to is, I mean what we're
trying to do is provide transportations op....transportation options for people,ways that
they can get where they're going and have the option to use whatever mode of
transportation they wanted....want to....to in order to make that trip. So obviously a....a
big portion of what we do for any, um....project that we do within the right-of-way,
looking at design considerations. Urn, the first thing I want to mention here is these will
be arterial streets. So these are gonna be the streets that handle not only people, um, you
know, going home that live on these streets,but also people that commute and use these
as part of their trip, but not necessarily their destination. So they're intended to handle
regional and local traffic. Uh, they also....we also anticipate with these projects there
will be the likelihood of either heavy vehicles or transit. You know all three of these
corridors are really...are areas where transit is either desired currently or where we
foresee that there may be some benefits to having transit on these....these routes. Uh, in
addition,these are areas where these new streets are anticipated to address traffic
concerns. Uh, a couple of examples here, Foster Road would obviously potentially, uh,
help with Linder Road, Kimball Road, and Brown Street, where...those are locations
where we do from time to time receive complaints. In addition, um, McCollister
Boulevard would also help with issues on Langenberg, which I'm sure all of you are
familiar with. We've received, uh, numerous and kind of ongoing complaints for that
stretch. Uh, as part of these projects, obviously we've considered the...the bicycle master
plan. So we looked at what's recommended there, and I believe that we've incorpora...
incorporated that into the designs for these roadways. Um, looking at lane widths, I think
this is obviously a....a, probably one of the main topics probably to be discussed tonight.
Um, you know,NACTO does discuss 10-foot lanes. I know that's been brought up, uh,
on occasion. Uh,but it also does, you know, as you can see here, note that for designated
truck or transit routes, one travel lane of 11-feet may be used in each direction. So really
what that's saying is, they understand too that when it comes to buses or heavy vehicles,
that those vehicles do take up more room than your standard, uh, passenger car. And so
if you're having these roadways, they do allow for that 11-foot lane, um, at least one in
each direction. So here, talking a little bit more about lane widths, I've....I've just
provided some information here about, um, vehicle sizes, and this comes out of, or from
NACTO.org so their web site. Uh, you can see here I have a couple of different, or three
different, um, diagrams that kind of include some measurements. There you see a
standard 40-foot bus with a, the width of the vehicle bein' 8 '/2 feet. Including the mirrors
that,uh, bumps up to 10 %2 feet, and then they also include a buffer zone around the bus,
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and that is basically six inches on each side. So that will then increase that to 11 '/ feet,
kind of that full buffer area for a bus. They also include basically recommended
minimums for, uh, roadway design, and you can see here, if you're looking at a route that
includes transit, for two-way traffic, they recommend 22 to 24-feet, uh, as the
recommended width. Now I....I will note that this is curb-to-curb, so this would be
assuming only two foot...two travel lanes and doesn't incorporate bike lanes. Um, but
they do talk (mumbled) half streets, and so that would be basically one travel lane and
one bike lane in a single direction. So basically half of a....a street. Um, they look at
having a 15-foot minimum and then a 17-foot desired minimum. And just for example
here we have Foster Road proposed at 18-feet, um, and American Legion Road proposed
at 17-feet. So they're, uh, right in that range.
Throgmorton/Sorry, uh, Jason, I'm not quite tracking, uh.....what you're describing here.
Havel/Okay!
Throgmorton/So with regard to any one of these street segments, uh....how many lanes are
being proposed in each direction?
Havel/I believe all of them will be one lane in each direction. So there'll be two....two-lane
roadways with bicycle facilities.
Throgmorton/All right. So when you talk about half street, what are you tellin' us?
Havel/ So basically that would be, so if you have a east-west road, if you're lookin' at say just
west bound, you would include one travel lane and one bike facility lane. And so that's
what this shows here with the....the pink bus and the green bicycle guy. It's basically
just sayin' so for half of the street, one-way this is what they would recommend. So...and
then you would basically flip it and it would be half the street for the other way. So that
kind of....you would take that times two to get your full roadway width. Does that make
sense?
Throgmorton/Okay, that's helpful.
Havel/Okay. So here I just wanted to,um, show a few examples of some recent City projects,
um, basically just kind of getting to the point of.....the discussion of narrowing up lanes
and moving towards that direction to show that it is something we've been working on
for a period of time now. Uh, you know, going back to Lower Muscatine Road, which
was completed in 2014, that included 15-foot lanes in the two-lane section, so that'd be
kind of the....the northern part of the project, and then once we got into the three-lane
section, that bumped down to 13-foot lanes. Um, Sycamore Street, which was completed
in 2015, had 11-foot travel lanes. First Avenue grade separation, which was completed in
2017, had 11 'h to 12-foot lanes, depending on kind of where you were at in the project.
Um, Washington Street, which was completed in 2017 had 11 'h-foot lanes, and then
Dubuque Street, which is obviously ongoing,had, uh, 11 to 12-foot travel lanes. So
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again, this is just kind for comparison, again showing that there is this trend, urn, in that
lane reduction, or that lane width reduction.
Taylor/In going back to Jim's question a minute ago, so that 11 to 12-foot does include the bike
lane then or.....
Havel/Does not, so that would be (both talking)
Taylor/That does not include the bike lane.
Havel/ Correct.
Taylor/Okay.
Havel/ So moving on, um, with design considerations, another topic is design speeds. So this is
what you basically,urn, some of the design parameters that you use when designing the
road. A lot of times this comes into play for vertical and horizontal curves as part of the
roadway design. Um, we've proposed 35-mile-an-hour....35-mile-per-hour, uh, design
speed, and that's consistent with what we've done on other arterials in fringe areas. Uh,
one I did want to note, obviously, is McCollister, which is McCollister, uh, pretty much
between Mormon Trek and Old Highway 218. So it'd be, uh, section a little bit further to
the west, actually has a speed limit of 45-miles-an-hour. So, uh, the 35-mile-an-hour
would be consistent with what we've done in other areas. (mumbled) finishing out the
sort of the general project considerations, um, you know again we've kind of gone
through some of the design considerations that have gone into this project and we believe
that we've met, um, sort of the design guides that are out there and....and kind of
working to piece this all together and try and...put together basically the best puzzle we
can, urn, for all users. We've....there's been, urn, obviously some stakeholder input. So
we've had public meetings on, uh, American Legion Road. Once we get into the design
for the McCollister Boulevard, we anticipate, uh, public meetings there. Urn, so....then
there's also obviously ongoing(coughing, difficult to hear speaker) from not only, um,
public groups but your discussions as well, urn, and trying to incorporate that all into the
projects,um,but at the end of the day, I mean, these are our recommendations. The
reason we're here is for your input. So if you, you know, have feelings that....or input
that you want to get into this project and you want to see things change, that's why we're
here, basically to present this....present our recommendations and then get your
feedback. Um, and then finally here....I do see this kind of as....a first step as we move
towards SUDAS for design. Urn, you know, as a reminder we'll be doing that kind of in
two steps, so we'll be doing our specification, um, adoption first and then down the road
we'll be looking at our design manual and I....I see this as kind of feeding into that, uh,
which probably will be here in the next few months.
Throgmorton/ So, Jason, before you go on, uh, and.....and not to leap too far ahead. I just wanna
signal something. In the past we've had extensive discussions with regard to the area
around Alexander Elementary which means McCollister Boulevard, and....in terms of
using the form based code to help create a place down there that differs from
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conventional subdivisions. Uh, and it's been very clear that the design of McCollister is
a crucial part of the development of that kind of neighborhood. Likewise we've had
extensive conversations about how...uh, whatever form based code comes out of that
project could be applied to other emerging neighborhoods, such as the south side of
American Legion Road, at a minimum. So I worry,just to put it out there, I worry about
35-mile-an-hour design speed, cause that means 42-miles-an-hour. So, I'm worried about
that. So...you know, tag that (both talking)
Havel/Yep, well and one thing I would note is when we look at, um, 35-mile-per-hour, the....the
intent is that the design would be the posted speed. So we don't have that built in, but I,
you know, I....there's, I guess that point in....in response, but....
Throgmorton/Okay!
Botchway/ So to Jim's point since, you know, what's the, uh, what's the reason why we don't
just do 25? Across the board. You know I mean I'm not on that, you know, I can feel
kind of where we're headed, and I....and I'm not that type of driver, but....I'll figure that
out myself. But ultimately why don't we just do 25 across the board? I mean I feel like
we consistently have this conversation. What's the....what's the impetus to why you
would, not you personally, um,but why staff would come back with 35 when, you know,
ultimately we want to slow traffic way down.
Havel/And I think it's.....I think it's part of a spectrum, and so I think what our thought process
is is again, these are arterials. These are not local streets where, you know, it's all
residential right on the street. So I think the intent is that it has the ability to move traffic,
have heavier vehicles, again kind of give that space for those vehicles. Um, these tend to
be more on the commuting side, so again, there'll be local and regional traffic. If the
desire's to go to 25 for all, I....I think that would be a possibility, um, but I think.....it's
really looking at it as that spectrum of......where, you know, obviously you have local
streets, makes sense obviously for very low speed. Interstate makes sense for very high
speeds. It....it's just trying to figure out what that balance is of.....moving people
through the corridor, while also having that place-making ability.
Botchway/ I'll come back to it.
Taylor/I'll....I'll just add a quick note too. I think there's difference between like moving
people through the corridor and...and creating a speedway, so to speak, uh, of trying to
get across town quickly, which I think that's what some folks are gonna use all three of
these roads for, and I think there is a concern, and we'd heard recently when we were
looking at Langenberg Avenue the study showed that, uh, like 85% went the speed, but
15% did not. So 15% are going over 35, is what was quoted......say 42,that's serious.
That's a serious safety concern, I think.
Havel/ So I just wanna note that I'm gonna jump into American Legion Road, so....if you'd like
to stop now and have some discussion or if you want me to move forward, I'm fine either
way,but(both talking)
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Throgmorton/It's probably good to move ahead. I just wanted to tag a topic and(several
talking)more conversation.
Havel/ So the American Legion Road improvements project will look to have a complete
reconstruction,um, of American Legion Road, from Scott Boulevard to Taft Avenue.
That'll be a conversion from what is now a....a rural cross-section to an urban cross-
section. Uh, the biggest change there is really going from roadway shoulders and ditches
to, uh, curb and gutter and a storm sewer system. Uh, with that obviously there'll be
sidewalk installed as part of the project, as well. Um, a couple of unique, uh, pieces with
this project are the single-lane roundabout that is proposed at Scott Boulevard and
American Legion Road, as well as the pedestrian underpass,uh, which would be just
west of Barrington Road, um, towards the east end of the project. So for American
Legion Road, um, what we're looking at, sort of the....the end points here, there at the
Scott Boulevard, American Legion Road intersection just a...an example of the existing
pavement that's out there. Muscatine Avenue is currently a 31-foot, uh, back-to-back
pavement section, as well as Scott Boulevard. So those are....are both 31-feet in width,
um, which is the point we're tyin' into on the west end of the project. And then on the
east end, this is....would be out, uh, basically....to the county. Urn, American Legion
Road is 22-foot, uh,pavement width. That obviously is still a rural cross-section, so that
would be essentially two 11-foot lanes, and then Taft Avenue is approximately 24-foot,
uh,pavement width, and that's the piece to the north. To the south it becomes gravel and
is a little harder to measure, but uh, that would be the chip seal section basically to the
north.
Throgmorton/Just to make sure I heard correctly, so the existing....Scott Boulevard...well,the
existing width of Scott Boulevard and of Lower Muscatine, at that intersection, is....
they're both 31-feet, total width. Is that right?
Havel/Correct.
Throgmorton/And what's being proposed or recommended or whatever by the staff is 36-feet, is
that correct?
Havel/Correct.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Thomas/But the 31-feet is just two lanes of traffic.
Havel/Yes. So yeah, that's just pavement width. That's not....a comparison of travel lane
width.
Thomas/When you say 31-feet, do you mean to the face of curb or(both talking)
Havel/ ....that's back-to-back.
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Thomas/Okay, so it....it's a, from face of curb it would be (both talking)
Havel/Yeah, approximately six inches for curb on each side.
Thomas/Uh huh. Jason, do we know what speed, what the speeds are on American Legion right
now?
Havel/I don't know....have we....since we changed I don't know if they've been measured.
Okay, so I think that's accurate. So here is a....a cross-section from the functional plans,
urn, and what this shows is basically a breakdown of not only the....the pavement cross-
section, but also the lane widths here. Urn, so again it's a 34....I apologize. It's a 34-
foot,urn,back-to-back, and so with that, that would be two 11-foot lanes, as well as two
5 '/-foot bike lanes. Urn, it also includes an 8-foot sidewalk on the north side, and then a
5-foot sidewalk on the south side, and that would be 100-foot proposed right-of-way.
Um, one thing I just want to note, I think we're consistent in here, but when talking about
bike lanes too, uh,just need to be careful on what exactly we're measuring. Sometimes
the curb's included, sometimes it's not. Urn, so...you know, you'll see on here it's a 6-
foot measurement, but that includes the curb, so I've included 5 '/z-foot bike lanes, which
is just the actual travel area that could be used.
Throgmorton/ So just to be clear, so....what you're presenting us with right now differs from
what appears in the memo?
Havel/I think it's consistent with the memo. I think we had just talked about 36, and 36 was
actually for Foster Road. Uh, so I think....1 think this is consistent with what's in the
memo.
Throgmorton/All right! Corr....I'm sorry, correct. Thank you!
Havel/Yeah!
Thomas/Do we have an idea what traffic volume we might see on American Legion?
Havel/I....I don't. So, wanted to kind of just, uh, add some additional information for the....the
pedestrian underpass that's planned. Urn, so what this would be....little west of the
Barrington Road intersection, this would be essentially a box culvert that's installed as
part of the project. So it would be a tunnel under American Legion Road. Urn, and the
intent here is that it would support safe routes to school,urn, also enhances the regional
trail network, and basically where these benefits come from is obviously it allows, urn,
a....a grade separated crossing of American Legion Road. Um...and one of the reasons
this is a good candidate, um, for this location is just given the topography and the....the
profile of the road. You're not havin' to do somethin' like on Riverside Drive, where
you're havin' to bore through a railroad embankment. Here it's simply excavating and
placing the....the culvert in place. So the costs are significantly cheaper. Urn, I think it's
in the neighborhood of about 100,000 for the box culvert to be installed in this location.
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Urn, so....again just kind of some details (mumbled) really unique to these projects. So a
little bit about the....the bicycle master plan. Urn, so for this location, uh,and
unfortunately this doesn't show it very well in the printouts, but uh, you'll see a blue line
and a green line here along American Legion Road, and what that calls for is bike lanes
and side paths. So, again, we would have the, uh, on-street bicycle facilities. We would
also have the wide sidewalk on the north side,uh, and the standard sidewalk on the south
side. One thing I do want to note too here is you can kind of see on the....the far right, or
far....yeah, far right side here, there's a line that kind of cuts...perpendicular through
American Legion Road. Urn, and that's a....a future trail. So again,that leads back to
that pedestrian underpass, urn, and having that regional trail also coming through this
area and....and providing that benefit. Another thing I want to note here is....with where
we're at with the American Legion Road project. So we've completed functional design.
Um, and that was completed a couple of years ago. And what that had done is basically
took a look at, okay, laying out this project, is this somethin' that's feasible? Is it
somethin' that we can....can fit here? Is it somethin' that we can....can really move
forward with? We've completed that. That had....was completed before the bicycle
master plan, so right now we have on-street bicycle facilities on the American Legion
Road project, but we haven't looked, urn, we haven't really looked at are there better
options there? You know, one thing we've considered is do we want to look at doing,
urn, a buffered bike lane or something like that. Um, that's something we can do as we
move into final design. We're just not there yet. We're actually working on the contract
to get a consultant on board to....to complete that final design. So, um, I....I just wanted
to make that note that,you know, again this....the bicycle master plan actually came after
the functional design was complete.
Throgmorton/ So, to follow up on that. If in a scenario the Council says to you, 'We want this to
be a....designed at 25-miles-an-how.' What does that imply for the, uh, the functional
design, contract negotiations, etc.?
Havel/I....I think, you know, as far as functional design, I don't think we would probably
change that. We would just move forward with,urn,basically final design,but include
that in the contract, to say it would change it from a 35-mile-an-hour to 25-mile-an-hour.
I would anticipate there'll be some changes, urn, I don't anticipate that it'll be, uh, a huge
burden. I think overall, um,the plan view of the project or, you know, how it....curves
and that kind of stuff will likely be very similar. Urn, so I....I would see the design
being, uh, pretty similar to what it would be for the 35-mile-an-hour.
Throgmorton/So we're not....thank you! So we're not too far along, in the event that the
Council says we want to do 25-miles-an-hour. I'm not sayin' that's gonna be the case.
Havel/Yep! And like I said, I mean we're....we're just now working to finalize that contract.
So that...we could include that.
Throgmorton/Thanks!
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Cole/Very briefly, what impact would a buffered bike lane have on the total lane width? Would
we need to lower the roads....that are designed for the traffic only, like for example
they'd have to go to 11 to 10 or what impact would that have?
Havel/I....I think (both talking) different ways we could do that.
Cole/ Okay.
Havel/Um, you know, I think we would have to look at is this total pavement width still what
we want, or would we want to widen it a little bit. I mean you certainly could widen it to
add buffers. Um, if you were looking at, uh, reduction in...in lane width as well, urn, we
could look at that at the same time. So I think for the most part we can...really all the
options would still be on the table. So here's just kind of an overview of the project costs
and schedule for the American Legion Road pro...uh, project. Urn, you can see here the
total project is estimated about $9 million with construction being about 6.9 million of
that. Uh, as a reminder, um, there are federal aid dollars on here, so the DOT will be
involved with,um,basically as we go through the design process, uh, which is part of the
federal aid,urn,process. Urn, as far as schedule goes, the design development here is
shown as April of this year through, uh,November of this year. That, again, is....we're
just kind of at the front end of that,just starting that final design. Urn, and then likely
next year would be a lot, or most of basically the property acquisition and the private
utility relocation. So those would likely be kind of the project ahead of the project, um,
slated for next year. And then looking at a bid letting late 2019, with construction likely
in 2020.
Throgmorton/ So let me ask you a question about the cost,projected cost. My dad was a civil
engineer, but I never quite got it(laughs) So....if we....uh, urged upon the staff a total
roadway width that is, I don't know, two feet narrower, or....or whatever would be
appropriate for some specified design speed, uh, what effect would that have on the,uh,
estimated construction cost?
Havel/If you're reducing pavement width by two feet, it's likely going to reduce the overall
project. It's probably not going to be all that significant. I mean you do have a....a fairly
long stretch here, so I think there....there will be some cost savings. Urn,but you need to
keep in mind that pavement is only part of the project. So all the underground utilities,
all that stuff is still gonna be stuff you're gonna have to do, um, but there would be some
pavement, uh....some cost savings I guess from the...the reduced pavement. Anything
else on this project?
Salih/Yes!
Throgmorton/ Okay.
Salih/Just I don't know, you don't have to break down costs,but I really would like to know
how much it cost,uh, the wide sidewalk that (unable to understand)north side of the
street.
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Havel/What's the total cost of that?
Salih/Yeah,that part, because....my understanding, you gonna do that first,but for the south
side you will wait. Is that true or, urn....
•
Havel/And I think the reasoning there is the north side would serve really all the users that we
anticipate using the facility now,urn, you know, the existing development, all that stuff,
is on the north side today, and so I think the thought is that the....the south side sidewalk
would be done as development occurs in that area. Um, and as there becomes a need
for...for that sidewalk.
Salih/I really have a concern because I know the student from (unable to understand) they will
use that,you know, the sidewalk that's not gonna be done for the south side in the future,
and this is....this is really....I know that they are outside the city limit, but it still,they
will use that sidewalk to go to school.
Havel/And they would have the ability to use the sidewalk on the north side.
Salih/Yeah,but that mean they gonna cut the street twice.
Havel/True, but(both talking) one of them would be the pedestrian underpass. So one....but
you're correct, and....(both talking)
Salih/Yeah, that true, uh,maybe it will be less dangerous,but still there is some kind of danger
for those kinds. My recommendation really to go ahead and do both side. I don't know
how much gonna cost,but you know, anyway you gonna do it in the future, why not just
go ahead and do it now so those kids from the, you know (unable to understand) Sunrise
Village,they can use the...the sidewalk that in their side and just go like rather than cross
the street here and go over there, cross the street twice.
Havel/And it's included in the functional design, and the grading would be completed, so it
wouldn't be very much to (both talking) would be some additional cost, but it wouldn't
be that much work to (both talking)
Salih/I don't know what the cost is (unable to understand) I think if there is a way we can just go
ahead and do both side, it would be great.
Mims/One of the other things though, Mazahir, is when developers develop, they share...they
either share in or pay the full cost of those sidewalks. So...so there's, by waiting, plus
you're going to be tearing it up at different stages as they're going in to develop.
Salih/But we need that, we concerning about the safety. We don't have to wait for(unable to
understand) the developer will pay later to have a cost. We just now sacrifice(unable to
understand) no, I think we need to do that,just for the safety of those children.
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Throgmorton/On....on that point, Maz, my concern...well, I....I under....I understand the point
you're making but if we only build the wide so....sidewalk on the north,then kids from
Modem Manor would have to walk up to American Legion Road and cross at the
roundabout. That worries me, uh, because we're talkin' at the moment anyhow, 35-mile-
an-hour speed limit. People slow down comin' to roundabouts but still the purpose is to
kinda move right on through. So....we'd have to fig....if we do a roundabout at...and we
do the 35-mile-an-hour thing,we'd have to think really seriously about how to ensure the
safety of the kids who would have to cross the street.
Taylor/I agree with that, cause that's just anticipating that....possible future development on that
south side,but that could be a number of years, and in the meantime these children are
having to walk there, and cross the street and then cross again, even though you're
talking about the underpass, which we'll talk about later, but uh, I...I agree with Mazahir.
Thomas/Jason,on the, uh, intersection at, um....Barrington.
Havel/Yeah.
Thomas/ So...so there still will be crosswalks there.
Havel/ Correct.
Thomas/And what is the width....uh, on the two sides?
Havel/I don't know off hand. I would assume it would probably be a six-foot crosswalk.
Thomas/ Oh, I meant the width of the roadway.
Havel/Oh,the width of the roadway? You're probably looking at......maybe 55,maybe a little
more than that. I don't know what the....all the lane widths would be here. I would
assume that it'd be in that neighborhood. Cause you're probably looking at four travel
lanes, and then the....the bike lanes as well. And that would be on the west side.
Obviously on the....the east side it looks like there may be one less travel lane, which
would reduce that.
Thomas/Uh huh.
Havel/That's it for this project.
Throgmorton/I'd like to (both talking) like to, um,tag another possibility. Uh, with regard to
the place where kids would cross from Barrington to get to the school. Uh, so the
possibility is instead of having a pedestrian underpass, to have street designed at 25-
miles-an-hour and have, uh....um, a user-activated stop signal, with a....a well-marked
pedestrian crosswalk and maybe, uh....uh, a safety refuge, you know, concrete safety
refuge for anybody tryin' to cross the street. I don't know if staff's thought about that as
a possibility. I don't know if it's viable, but (both talking)
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Havel/ ....a full traffic signal or are you thinking just the....the pedestrian-only(both talking)
Throgmorton/Pedestrian walks up, hits a button, light comes....red light....or red, yellow light
flashes and then a red light comes on, and somebody crosses the street.
Havel/I'd have to check. I don't if they really have....what they have for options at....
intersections. I think typically those are full signals. Urn, I know they do have some
mid-block, um, the flashing beacons, that kind of stuff, that are options. We certainly
could look at that.
Throgmorton/Well....tag it! (laughs)
Havel/ Sure!
Taylor/And I would, uh, second the refuge island, uh....because the one by HyVee on First
Avenue, that seems to be very effective, and the motorists seem to respect that and slow
down or stop if there are pedestrians there. So I would....I would like to see (both
talking)
Havel/ ....one challenge here is with that left turn lane, it's gonna....you're gonna have to widen
the pavement even further,just to get it in. Where at First Avenue there's that center turn
lane that's not being used, so you have that existing space that you can use as a refuge.
Um, not that it's not possible but it....just somethin' to keep in mind.
Botchway/Regarding that pedestrian underpass, um, is there going to be any lighting in there? I
mean that's just creepy!
Havel/That....that would be part of it, yeah (laughter) Certainly that's part of the design.
(laughter)
Throgmorton/No bicycling for you under there, Kingsley (several talking and laughing)
Mims/How far is the underpass from Barrington?
Havel/I don't know off hand. I'd probably estimate.....300 feet? Give or take.
Mims/ Okay.
Thomas/And....and how does it tie into the....it looks like it, it's not clear to me how it relates to
the school site, cause...is that still the school site there, where(both talking)
Havel/Yeah, so the south you would basically have....and it's, I don't know if you can see it up
here, but basically the....the part that looks like it's going directly south would go to the
school. Uh, the part that goes to the west then ties into the existing sidewalk. So, um,
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obviously to make it accessible and all of that, you need a fair amount of distance to get
from below the street up to street grade to tie back into the...the sidewalk.
Salih/I just want to say this again, for the record, I prefer to have really the other side. I mean I
will love to know the number of the how much it gonna cost, if you did both side, a
sidewalk for the south side, and also because the children, even though (unable to
understand) and everything,but this is during a morning time where everybody running
to school. Those kids are walking (unable to understand) they don't have car, and you
know, a lot kids will be there just pressing and some of them maybe they are not going to
use it and just try to cross the street. Why we can make 'em safe, why not?
Havel/ So I believe that's included in the estimate, so that would be included with the project. It
was just provided as an option, because there are some locations where we've....we've
gone that route and said one sidewalk would be installed, the other would be installed as
development occurs. So....my understanding is that is included in the estimate.
Salih/Then...okay! If that's really included,just go ahead and do it! So we can save those
children!
Taylor/I've just been wondering what is...is there something particularly unique about this
intersection that prompted, uh, discussion to have....have the underpass, I mean we have
a number of school crossings that....that could also have something like that, but this one
seems unique. We don't have it anywhere else at a school crossing.
Havel/ I think there's a number of things that kind of led to that. One you have the school here,
uh, you know, with a lot of traffic coming from, or....or foot traffic coming from the
north and those neighborhoods, and that trail network, going to the school on the south.
Um, you also have the trail network to the north, and then the future frail network that
would continue to the south. So you kind of have those two factors, and then also just
given, you know, with the road being somewhat elevated from the....the surrounding
area, it....it fits really well to have that underpass. You know a lot of times it's hard
because you have to do so much excavation and grading and....and making it all work.
That's kinda where your costs really start to escalate, so in this location there's kinda
those benefits, and then it also just fits pretty well, given the topography.
Cole/Jason, and this has been in our capital improvement project now for....budget for several
years, hasn't it? When did it first go (both talking) Okay.
Havel/Uh(both talking)
Cole/ So Councils have had several opportunities to review and assess this underpass.
Havel/Yep.
Cole/As far as I can tell there's never been a time when we haven't voted to put it...put it out,
right?
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Havel/ I would (both talking) Yes.
Cole/Okay.
Throgmorton/That....that doesn't sound quite right to me, I mean I don't fully trust my memory
on this, but I don't know that we've had an extensive discussion about whether or not
there should be an underpass. Clearly there has to be a safe crossing, but underpass?
(both talking)
Havel/I don't know that there's been an extensive conversation on it, but it has been in the...the
capital improvement program for a number of years. It's actually been awarded two
rounds of federal funding. I think the first one must have been 15 probably is when that
went through, so at least, urn, at that point, and I believe it might have been in the
unfunded, uh, list before that. But I'm not positive on that.
Throgmorton/For this underpass?
Havel/For the project.
Throgmorton/Project.
Thomas/I....this is the first sort of discussion of the project in detail, to my knowledge. Is that
...is that correct?
Havel/That could be accurate.
Throgmorton/What's next?
Havel/All right, we'll move on to Foster Road. So this one, this project will be an extension of
Foster Road, basically from where it terminates now on the....on the west end there, uh,
basically from Dubuque Street up to Prairie Du Chien. Uh, with this project it's a little
unique in that it's City-owned property. Urn, that was done back when we had done the
transmission water main, uh, a number of years ago. So the....the property was
purchased, it's City property, but it's not yet right-of-way, so urn, now we're going
through and we'll install, urn, rest of the utilities, as well as the....the street pavement and
sidewalks and that kind of stuff. One thing I do want to note too is this one will be, is a
little different than the other two in that this is being done as part of a subdivision. So it's
kind of a partnership with, uh, some development that's occurring along Foster Road,
urn, and so it will be the developer that would actually do the construction here. They're
doing the design. Obviously the City,uh, and Engineering staff are involved with the
review of that. Um, but it's actually the developer and their design team that are doin'
the....the work. Um, so here you have Foster Road looking from the west end. Again
this is the, where, um....it currently terminates, or turns to chip seal for those homes
there, urn, but basically the end of the....the paving, and with Foster Road, the area that's
in the picture here, so the area east of Dubuque Street, the existing pavement width is 36-
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feet, which is what we're proposing to....to match, uh, and then to the west of Dubuque
Street, for Foster Road, that pavement width is 31-foot. And again, that would be back-
to-back, um, for curb.
Throgmorton/ So why the difference?
Havel/Urn, I....I don't know what the design was here. I know just....to the west of this picture,
you know you're just coming out of the....the turn lanes that are at Dubuque Street. So
I...I don't know if it was, um....what the additional width was there. But it...it actually, I
believe,might even widen a little bit as you develop those turn lanes. And then on the
east end, this is just a picture of the existing corridor, so again nothin' really to see there
other than, um, this is the corridor that's kinda laid out for the project, and just for
reference, Prairie Du Chien has a 28-foot, uh, pavement width. So here's what is
proposed on Foster Road. Urn, this is a 36-foot, urn, basically back-to-back pavement
section. Again 11-foot travel lanes, uh, we've included 5-foot bike lanes so that'd be 5-
foot, uh, of actual travel lane for the bikes, urn, and then a 1 '/2-foot painted buffer. So it
would be a buffered bike lane on Foster Road. Uh, again it includes 8-foot sidewalk on
the north side and 5-foot sidewalk on the south side. It is proposed that these would be
constructed on both, uh, sides with the project. Urn, and then this one is a 66-foot right-
of-way, so it's a pretty tight right-of-way for that collector arterial, uh, classification.
Here's, uh,just a....a, from the bicycle master plan, again kind of talkin' about what is
recommended for Foster Road. Urn, again you can see a blue line and a green line. So
again this is bike lanes and side paths. Urn, and so that's what is recommended for Foster
Road, um, to be included with the project. So here we have again, uh, estimated project
cost and schedule for the project. Uh, the estimated construction costs are just over 2.6
million,urn, and then you can see total project costs is about 3.2 million. Urn, schedule
looking at doing,uh.....the design here in January, urn, through April this year, with the
construction, uh, they're wantin' to do construction, urn, starting later this year and then
likely continuing into next year. Uh, I do have a note here, again this is being completed
as part of the Forest Hill Estates subdivision, and as part of that, there will be a
development agreement that will be, urn, coming before you that would be, uh, impacting
this project, or involving this project.
Throgmorton/Jason, I noticed that, uh, the schedule says design development January, 2018
through April, 2018. This raises questions about the viability....well, not viability, but
what would happen if we said we want 25-mile-an-hour design speed on Foster Road?
Havel/I....I would say that this one certainly is the furthest along,urn, so that I think as far as
what the impacts would be,we'd have to look at that. Again I think it's just going to
depend on what that change means. Uh, if you're looking at simply....reducing the....the
lane width and widening the bike lane, that's gonna have very little impact because it'll
be just striping. Urn, if we end up looking at what it would take to, um, change the....the
pavement width, that may be a little bit more, urn, that would probably still be doable.
Urn....and then, you know, as far as the alignment and that kind of stuff, we're kinda
locked in there. Again with it already being City property. So I...I don't think that we're
gonna be looking at huge changes. Urn, obviously, again,they're fairly long, fairly far
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along in the design,but urn,if that's the direction then that's what we would...would
work towards.
Throgmorton/Okay. Any questions for Jason about Foster Road? There aren't any school
crossings to worry about here.
Taylor/So was this plan to extend Foster Road in the works? It sounds like it's been being
planned for a while before even the Forest Hill subdivision plans came before us?
Havel/Yeah,my understanding is this one's been in the works....or,been planned or...or
considered for a long time. I....I think really it's been something that's been viewed as
kind of development-driven. So once there was somebody that was ready to pull the
trigger on development then this would be(both talking) go along with that.
Throgmorton/Yeah,just as a location for, you know, a road and so we own the property. That's
....that's been known for a long time, yeah,but not the design of the roadway.
Havel/Okay, on to the last one? (several responding) All right. McCollister Boulevard
extension. And.....so what we're looking at here is really the extension of McCollister
Boulevard,urn, from just east of Covered Wagon Drive over to Sycamore Street. And
it'll tie into what is essentially the north roundabout that was installed as part of the
Sycamore Street project, uh, a couple years ago. This alignment, um, was....we did a
corridor study back in 2007. So this is another one that's kind of been out there for a
while. We knew it was coming at some point,urn,that point is now apparently. So,urn,
we'll be moving forward with that design. One thing I just wanted to bring up and....and
keep in mind as we move through this process is currently the property is outside the city
limits. So annexation and the acquisition of right-of-way, uh, is just somethin' we'll have
to kind of work through as we work through the project. So these aren't currently in the
city limits. Here again just a view of McCollister Boulevard. So lookin' at the west end,
this is where the....it currently dead-ends. This is a 34-foot pavement width and then,
um,just looking at Sycamore Street, so kind of on the east end. This is looking west
towards where the project would tie into,uh....there's, the pavement width on Sycamore
is 34-feet as well. Urn,that does include bike lanes, so that one was 11-foot travel lanes
and 5 1/2-foot bike lanes on Sycamore Street. So for McCollister Boulevard, um, for this
stretch of it, the bicycle master plan includes protected bike lanes or cycle tracks, urn,
inside paths. So that's what it recommends for this stretch,urn, I think what we are
planning to do for this project is kind of as part of the overall project design is look at
McCollister Boulevard,not only this stretch,but also maybe the stretch to the west, and
look at how do we kind of tie that altogether,urn, you know, and not have something
where to the west you have no bicycle....on-street bicycle facilities. Here you have
protected bike lanes or....or whatever we end up going with, uh,just kind of look....
taking a more global view of that corridor, seein' if there's a way we can kind of tie that
together, especially with the Mormon Trek project,the....the four-lane to three-lane
conversion there and the additional bike lanes for, um....at least the portion even further
to the....to the west. So,kind of lookin' at that corridor as a whole and what that solution
might look like,to keep some consistency for bicyclists.
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Cole/Jason, you may have discussed this earlier,but how wide are the bike paths on First
Avenue now,just for point of reference?
Havel/I don't know off hand. I'm.....I wanna say they're probably in that 5 1/2-foot....
Cole/Okay. (both talking) ...by way of illustration or comparison(both talking)
Havel/ ...I would say, typically in that 5 to 6 range.
Taylor/We might anticipate though more bicycle traffic along here. It seems as though Terry
Trueblood is utilized a lot with their path, uh, for bikers.
Havel/Yep! And I think we anticipate...I think I have it here in a little bit,but I think we would
anticipate something similar where we would also have a wide sidewalk on one side, um,
as well as on-street bicycle facilities. So there would be options for bicyclists there. Urn,
so lookin' at this project, urn.....one thing that has obviously come up somewhat recently
is the Opticos report,urn, and related to this, we are looking to finalize the design
contract for this project as well. So we actually don't have anybody on con....under
contract to do this design. So we're just about to start that. I think it'll probably be at
your next meeting,you'll likely see a contract for design of this,urn, and when we were
selecting consultants for this, we actually included it and made it noted that there was the
potential for the South District Plan or....or some of those,um....planning pieces to be
implemented in this project. So,they're aware of that. They're aware of...they'll need to
consider that as they move through the design. But, I just wanted to kind of highlight
some of the things from the Opticos report. You know obviously talking about
connectivity in the South District area,um, all travel modes. So that's,you know,
pedestrians,bicyclists, as well as vehicles. Urn,there was a few mentions of bus service
challenges. That...again gets to that transit and a need for transit in this area. Um,bike
infrastructure, inter-connectivity, again kind of looking at the area as a whole and how do
we connect those pieces(mumbled)versus just having one piece that has,um,that bike,
uh, facility on it. Um, talking about relief for neighborhood streets, so again, you know,
the Langenberg example, those kind of things where we have a....a lot of traffic and...and
concerns from residents. Urn, and then improved walkability. So, like I mentioned, we
don't currently have anything as far as design for this. We have the alignment from the
previous study, but we really don't have anything as far as a preliminary design or
anything along,uh, of that type, and so what we....we are looking at the project could
include,um, is obviously an urban cross-section. I think that's pretty much a given, urn,
that....which would include curb and gutter,urn, the 11-foot travel lanes, again on-street
bicycle facilities....the bike master plan recommended protected or cycle track. Urn,
we'll certainly consider that. I think the one thing...or one question that I may have with
that would just be as we look at the corridor, does it make sense to...to have this piece be
protected and maybe others aren't. Do we want that consistency or do we wanna go with
protected, so that's yet to be decided. Um, certainly haven't made any decisions there
and it's somethin' we'll look at. Urn, again I think we would likely look at a 8-foot
sidewalk on the north side and then a 5-foot sidewalk on the south side,urn, again
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consistent with other locations, and then likely a 100-foot proposed right-of-way. So
again just kind of the,urn, estimated project costs and schedule for this project. The
project cost are, uh, estimated at about 3.6 million. Uh, total project in the neighborhood
of about 5.2 million, and then as far as schedule goes, looking at starting design
development here, uh,hopefully in the next month or so, and then with the goal of having
construction next year. I think that is it for what I have.
Cole/Jason, I have a question on the wide sidewalks. For the 'wide sidewalk,' can bikes go on
the wide sidewalk? I know certainly with the narrow ones would prohibit it. But for the
wider ones, can they use those?
Havel/They are....they are allowed to use those (both talking)
Cole/ ...and what is the definition of a wide sidewalk? Width wise, is that 8-feet?
Havel/Typically it's 8-feet.
Cole/Okay.
Mims/Bicycles can go on the narrow sidewalks anywhere, can't they? (several talking) ...as
long as it's not downtown. (several talking)
Cole/ ...downtown, okay, cause I know that some people have gotten some tickets. Okay.
Throgmorton/So McCollister raises some really interesting challenges. Uh, when the Blue
Zones project was done, Dan Burden,who's one of the key proponents of, and
spokespersons for Blue Zone, said something like....uh, ha....have....what...what was the
language, uh....I....hold on, bear with me for a second. Gotta find the language. Build
places through transportation, not transportation through places. So,the thing that
concerns me most by far with regard to the roadway design discussion is the relationship
between the design of McCollister Boulevard and the design of the area around McCol
.....uh, Alexander Elementary. I think if we have a wide....not boulevard. A wide....um,
roadway that's similar to equivalent to what exists west of,uh, Sand Road,have it go
over to Sycamore and then go through the roundabout and then on up north,then we have
completely undermined the viability of Opticos's form based code work, for that
neighborhood. It seems to me we need to come up with a roadway design that will by
itself enable....Opticos and its work to be done well. So....I think that's a real important
challenge for us.
Havel/And that's somethin' we recognized and that was part of the reason we included that in
the....the scope of the....what likely will be the, uh, consultant working on the project is
to have that coordination, at least reach out and get some guidance on what they see that
be, because obviously we....we aren't wanting to design a roadway, construct a roadway
only to find out from day one that it goes against other planning efforts. So we recognize
that, and that's certainly somethin' that we're,uh, attempting to do and....and to help
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coordinate that. Uh, like I said,we....we actually have no design started on this project.
We have, uh, some possible, uh, parameters here but nothing that we've designed around.
Throgmorton/Okay, uh, any other questions for Jason about....at the moment, about
McCollister?
Thomas/Before we have general discussion?
Throgmorton/Yeah. All right, so....great presentation, Jason. Thank you so much(several
talking) Why don't ya hang around (several talking) So,we need to provide guidance,
given the information we have and given what our values are and....ambitions are. So,
uh, I....invite all of you to.....speak out, uh, it's a really important discussion for us. Uh,
I think it really gets to the heart of the interaction between neighborhood design and
roadway design. And I imagine that we'll have varying perspectives about this, and
about what we....prefer to do. So....let's.....let's get those differences out there, see if
we can engage them, and hopefully, at a minimum, get at least five Councilpeople to say
'yes,this is what we wanna do.' And ideally,all seven of us to agree about that. But I'd
like to have some substantial support for whatever it is we,uh, end up recommending, or
.....providing guidance about. Okay, so who wants to speak first?
Botchway/I'll start, since I know I'm in the minority. So,urn, the questions I have and I guess
questions/statements around this discussion is, um, you know, I'm a different type of
driver, and I guess I talk with different type of drivers. I think in general I don't....I
don't spend a lot of time in the car talking or listening to music. I plan on getting where
I'm going. I think that was a statement that one of our street design people brought up to
me last time, that I made in the prior meeting, that that is my goal and so I pay attention
to the roadway and I'm there quickly. Urn, I understand the conversation that we're
trying to have around safety. Urn, I do think it's absent of a conversation around
education,urn,that, you know,there's this expectation that people will just be willy nilly
and walking into the roadway and not paying attention to where they're going and....that
somewhat is problematic to me, but that's neither here nor there, because again,that's
been absent of any of our deliberations so for....so far. But as far as safety is concerned,
if we're truly thinking about what's research show us and,you know, spend some time
looking at kind of the research based practices around it,we do our 25, I mean ultimately
if we're saying to staff that we want to slow down traffic enough to prevent, urn, a death
or prevent serious injury, we would be talking about 20-miles-an-hour, you know, at 25,
there's a 50%survival rate, or 30 there's a 50%survival rate. At 20 it's 90%. And
so....if hit by a car, if hit by a car—let me be clear about that, or if a car was hit cycli...or
cyclist hit by a car, and so I guess,you know, I don't necessarily know if I agree with that
point,but I at least want us to....be about what we say we're going to be about. I mean if
we're gonna be about safety, um,then I don't necessarily know that 25 is gonna cut it,
from some of the conversation that we're having, I mean if ultimately we're talking about
slowing down traffic in order to be safe,um, then I would say 20. And that just goes to
empirical research and some other,um,perspectives from Strong Town and some other
articles I was reading to that end, and so that's my general feeling in regards to I would
say just overall speed limit. I would also say some of the research shows that...in the
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thing you talked about this as well, John,just closing....just making a, having a
conversation about speed limits doesn't necessarily change the....the traffic or the
amount of traffic on the roadway, and so I think some of the designs that the, urn, staff
have brought to us as far as additional,urn, closing lanes,um, adding some bicycle
structures. I'm....that I'm in favor with. I mean that I don't necessarily see an issue
with. I do think it's tough and so I have some questions from a bus standpoint because I
know that everybody wants to close the width of the lanes,but I remember driving a bus
and, you know, the level of the error that you can have in driving in a smaller lane is...is
tougher in a smaller,urn, lane compared to a larger lane. So I think that has to be a part
of our conversation,unless we're not talking about busing and we're just talking about
pedestrian and vehicles. Urn, so that's where I'm at. I think in general from what I've
seen, um, overall, with the roadway design, urn, I'm supportive. I am supportive of kind
of the steps that we're taking forward from a bike master plan and incorporation, um,
from that standpoint as well. But I think my biggest kind of rub, so to speak, is this
conversation around, you know, lowering the speed limits. I think ultimately if we are
going to lower the speed mi ....limits,which I'm not....not saying I'm not for, but not
for,urn, I think we need to really focus on, you know, what would be that ultimate safety
element that we'd be looking at, ultimate speed limit we would be looking at.
Throgmorton/Let me make sure I'm clear. At this point, not hearing yet from other people,you
favor what the staff has presented us with.
Botchway/Correct. Yeah.
Thomas/In terms of the speed limit as well.
Botchway/Yeah and that was a....that was a really, uh, good way of just (laughter) summarizing
what I just said, yeah! (laughs) Tryin' to sound knowledgeable! (laughs)
Mims/I'm.....Kingsley and I, I think, are pretty much on the same page, that....that the comment
I would have about the speed limits is I think we need to keep in mind what these streets
are for. They are arterial streets. Urn, now having said that, I think we've gotta look
carefully in terms of the school. We've gotta look carefully in terms of how does that
impact the development down around Alexander and not having this just....area divided
by a street that is hard to get across. So....um,certainly that has to be paid attention to, in
terms of the design. But.....I think if you....if you take a look at Langenberg, and the
issues we're having there. If people can't move any better on McCollister than they can
on Langenberg,this isn't going to alleviate any of the problems on Langenberg, cause
people are still gonna take the path of least resistance, if their goal is to get from point A
to point B. And so I think what's really crucial as we look at this is the fact that these are
designed, and they are....they are meant to function, as arterial streets. So....while,
Kingsley, I think on one hand you were kind of joking about, you know, going all the
way down to 20-miles-an-hour if we're really talking about safety. Um,at least I hope
you were (laughs) I mean we're not gonna get people driving 20-miles-an-hour on these,
and....and if these are 20,everybody's gonna be going on the side streets and going
faster. So, um, I think with appropriate design, I think, uh, other than....I think
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everybody's concerns about,uh, the new Hoover. I....I'm in favor of the 35 for these to
function effectively as arterials, but I think we've gotta have the design for people,
obviously, to get across. I think when I was looking at some of the NACTO's stuff and
they do,they talk about a, really an absolute minimum, absolute minimum on two....two
lane streets of 20-feet. Urn, and, Kingsley, you talked about the buses and....and Jason
included that in here, so I'm comfortable and I think it's reasonable for us to go to the 11-
feet to give a....a little bit more space and also anywhere you've got the curves, and I
would say particularly on Foster,that's gonna be somewhat winding and also hilly to
give people, you know, a little bit more leeway in terms of getting, potentially getting out
of their lane. Um, I like the idea of the protected bike lanes on Foster for that same
reason. Um, a little bit more....more room there and a little bit, uh,more safety. Urn,but
no, overall I would say I'm supportive of what the staff has presented to us.
Thomas/Well my, um,my thoughts on this, I think they....they do begin with the speeds. Uh,
because that kind of sets the tone and....and then questions regarding the actual
dimensional requirements, I think, flow from what we want the speed to be. You know, I
understand the desire for these streets to function as thoroughfares for through traffic,uh,
and....and what that suggests in terms of a....a traffic speed. At the same time,they are
running through what we would like to be viewed, picking up on Jim's comment, as
neighborhoods. And at...at 35,with....which we typically have a....a 5-mile-per-hour
grace over whatever we post the speed limit to be,that puts us at 40-miles-per-hour. Uh,
you know, we....we've seen the charts on what happens at 40. It's something 9 and 10
(cell phone ringing in background) If there should be a collision, you can expect most
likely a fatality. So....so what could happen at 35 to 40 is that these streets end up being
barriers between....between development within the overall neighborhood or district. It's
difficult to cross these streets safely should....should the speeds be 35 to 40. And then
furthermore we're adding to that....that equation integrating a bicycle infrastructure,
which....uh, in all three of these instances, are not protected lanes. They are simply
adjacent to the....the travel lanes, uh, for the motor vehicles. Foster has a...you know,
a....a fairly narrow buffer, but the other two are simply adjacent to the....to the travel
lanes. So we're introducing onto the roadway a....a fairly vulnerable user of that
roadway,uh, and not really giving them much float in terms of their relationship to
vehicles, which if we're saying 35 to 40,are moving at a speed where I suspect if we
looked at the....the,that aspect of how we should be designing our....our bicycle
network, it would require that those lanes be protected, not simply buffered,but actually
protected, uh,by....by an element such as, uh, you know,plastic markers or whatever we
typically see. Uh, so we're talking about, in my view, if...if we were to go to 35 as a
speed limit, then....the....the concept or design of....of the bicycle network would have
to reflect that speed, and it would have to be more separation,because if you don't have
that separation, uh, and you have....you have a collision with an automobile, it....it could
be over for you, and I....I really do not(laughs) I mean(clears throat)we're trying to
promote multi-modal use of our.....of our right-of-ways. If....if we're inviting injury
and....and, serious injury and fatality,urn, you know that's.....that's not how I'm
envisioning how we're moving forward. So....so.....so my feeling is 25, uh, is we....is
what we want. I...I understand that that in a way is an educational issue as well as just
setting a speed limit. I think we really need to be clear if...if we agree that slower speeds
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are desirable, that that needs to be communicated...to the public in terms of why that's
important. You know, so if we....if we were to go to 25, then that gets back to what
should the lane widths be and I....I know I've referenced this before in one of our work
sessions, in the Des Moines MPO report, `Mobilizing Tomorrow,' where they talked
about recommended roadway design standards, uh, it states that the ideal travel lane for
most urban streets with speeds below 35-miles-per-hour is 10-feet. So that's....you
know, again, it's....it's sort of tying what....what do we want the speed to be in the motor
vehicles that are running adjacent to the bike lanes, and....you know, sizing the lanes to
fit what we want the speeds to be in both the....the traffic lanes and in the bike lane itself.
So....so I'm general I....you know, supportive of 10-feet....10-foot lanes. I mean I know
we're, you know, we've seen the diagrams on the bus sizes and the truck sizes, uh, but
....but they are not the typical, we're not talking about a lot of truck traffic or bus traffic
on these streets. The majority of the vehicles are going to be, you know,more
conventional size, and....so.....so my feeling would be to, where I land on this is 25-mol
-mile-per-hour speeds. Um, it does seem to me there's a lot of support, especially if
we're integrating bicycle infrastructure into the roadway, for 10-foot lanes, and...and then
the....we we could adjust the bike lane with that to be a little bit wider, so there's
more separation. Six-feet, I think, is the....the minimum that's recommended for our
bike lanes. We have more than that on Foster, so it'd be a....a minor change to the, urn,
McCollister and, uh......and urn.....American Legion.
Throgmorton/ So you're recommending 6-foot bike lanes (both talking)
Thomas/Minimum 6-foot.
Salih/But I just wanna ask you, you're saying that if we want 25 speed limit, the requirement for
street have to be 10-foot? That what you saying or.....
Thomas/ I'm saying that part of the rea....you know, if....if, I would....I would say if we want
35, uh,mile-per-hour, 35 to 45-mile-per-hour speeds, 11-feet make sense, which....which
I'm not supportive of, because I feel.....
Salih/Uh huh, uh huh, yeah, I understand that(both talking)
Thomas/ ....with that speed and, uh (both talking)
Salih/You know I just wanna ask, is....is the 25 (unable to understand) 10, or it still can be on
the 11?
Thomas/Ten....10-feet would....would be more aligned and support the idea of...of a(both
talking)
Salih/Twenty-five....
Thomas/ (both talking) speed. If you increase the lane width, you know, and there are other
....here's another quote from NACTO—lane widths of 10-feet are appropriate in urban
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areas and have a positive impact on street safety without impacting traffic operations.
So....so the thought is is if you increase the width, then that tends to increase traffic
speed.
Salih/Uh huh. Okay.
Thomas/And with each foot,you know,there's....the increment of additional speed goes up.
Salih/ Sure.
Throgmorton/Rockne?
Cole/ Yeah, so.....(both talking) basically what I wanna do is append everything I'm saying,
subject....I want it to be subject to of course minimum accepted, um,presu....uh,
professional design standards, obviously. So I think that's sort of our foundational level.
We articulate the vision. We rely on the expertise of our staff to implement what the
vision is. So with that proviso, urn,to Susan and Kingsley's point, I would agree with
you if the only thing we were designing was for a car, uh, to pass along these roads. But
I think what Jason had talked about was, our complete streets policy talks about that
we're designing for"all current and projected users of the public right-of-way are
intended to conveniently reach their destination via public rights-of-way,regardless of
their chosen mode of transportation." So to me that means bicyclists and that means
pedestrians, and if we're serious about having bicyclists have that access, on an equal
footing...with the cars, I think we need to look at the 25, uh, max, and the 10-feet lane
width. Again, subject to the minimum acceptable standards. I know Jason had talked
about for arterials,NACTO may require the minimum of 11-foot, and I think if staff
comes back to us and....and pushes back on that, I would certainly change that.
Ultimately what I'd like to have is...is hopefully at some point, since we're in the early
design standards,we could communicate our preferences and hopefully would be able to
have a follow up discussion with that. So, uh, that is my preference. Now back to
Kingsley's point,that is something that Geoff had brought up, in terms of the fatalities,
um,which if you're talking about having bikes and pedestrians operate on equal footing,
uh,the fatality rate does increase exponentially based upon speeds. I think at 20 there's
a,urn, essentially a....you're.... you're likely to have a 90%chance of survival. At 30
it's 50%chance of su....survival. And at 40 it's 10%. So these are very significant and I
think Mazahir brings up a really good point in terms of the kids. Um.....in terms of that
particular issue, in terms of the underpass, I guess what I would like to see on that is,
that's a really complicated issue in terms of what we want to do with that. Urn, at some
point in the future, after consultation with our School District, assuming it's not too
difficult for staff to do, I'd like to see whether it's possible, if feasible, uh,to evaluate
whether we could, in lieu of the underpass, do two crossings to ensure that the kids are
safety....or.....can safely pass, or um,add the sidewalk as Mazahir had talked about, but I
wouldn't want to decide that today,until we have the School District weigh in in terms of
their preferences on that. Um, so that's sort of where I come down, at least at this point.
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Salih/For me I think some, you know, I agree with 25 speed limit,definitely,uh,since, uh,kids
will be like going at least around the American Legion Road. Uh,but um.....really I will
as a Council think this is really something being(unable to understand) already included
and the money is there for this project, why not doing both sidewalk? And but anything
else, I agree. Like also we can maybe make the, as John said, I agree with him
completely, about doing 10-feet and expanding a little bit the....the bike lane to 6, uh, but
really I....I want to ask the Council since this is, the money is there and it been budget in,
why not doing both side? What the reason of waiting? I thought we are not like already
budgeted but if we done, why?
Taylor/ Somebody'd mentioned that, uh, this is a very important discussion for us to have and it
is, cause these are all three,uh, very important roadways that have needed to be done for
a long time. But I think it's important that we get it right this time, uh, we don't wanna
go back and say we coulda, should've,would've. Um....it's always bothered me that....
that,uh, we as a city,uh,hire such groups as Opticos or bring speakers in, such as Jeff
Speck, and one of the things that stood out in my mind and I remembered for some
reason from Jeff Speck was the 10-foot lane, uh, on the streets, and he again talked about
that the wider the lanes,the increase of the speed. So I like John would be in favor of
that, and then I, uh, I think Jason mentioned that, uh, you know, do we want consistencies
and....and I think we should have seen consistencies in this, as far as the bike lane. I
don't see why we would need the different, uh,bike widths. Urn,unlike John,John
mentioned instead of Foster Road the 5-foot....1/2-foot buffer, uh,that'd be (mumbled)
we could have the 6 Y2-foot buffer if it's possible for all three of'em. If not, the 6-foot
would be good because....I keep thinking of, uh, First Avenue and the question was
asked how wide those bike lanes were and it was kind of uncertain. Seems to me
they're....they're not very wide and I don't think they even seem like they're 5-foot,uh,
but at the time we didn't have our bike master plan so it probably wasn't even in the back
of people's minds, but driving on First Avenue and having bikes along the road, which
you see very few bikes along that road, and....and I think there's a reason why, because I
think bicyclists don't feel safe riding there, cause it is a very narrow lane, and especially
if cars are turning off of First Avenue onto the side streets, such as Wade Street, or....or
along there, uh, go....heading over to Southeast Junior High, uh, it's very dangerous, uh,
for there to be such a narrow width for those bikes to be in,uh, so I would be in favor of
that, and....and like Mazahir,uh, adding that south side sidewalk along, by Hoover.
Throgmorton/So, let me ask all six of you whether....for those, well let me put it this way. For
those of you who,uh, advocate 25-miles-an-hour as the design speed,do you think that
should apply to all three roads.....or perhaps just one or just the two....of the roads?
Cause that....that'd be important in terms of providing the staff with guidance.
Cole/I would like all three.
Thomas/Yeah, I think for the sake of, urn, consistency, and this is....this is kind of in my mind a
larger....question, uh, and that is.....you know, a...a coherent speed policy with respect to
the city as a whole, and uh, so.....in my mind,the....the....the more we....we try to....
you know,nudge the....the speed limits down,um,the better, because drivers, you know
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(laughs)having one speed in the neighborhoods and another on certain arterials
and....and yet another, you know, on say Riverside Drive can be somewhat confusing. It
seems to me we,the goal should be to try to....to come up with a consistent policy of
once you enter the city, with few exceptions, we...we,but particularly even on arterials if
they're driving through neighborhoods, should be....held at a lower speed, because...that
....that just reinforces the...the notion that once you turn off that arterial, that you....you
don't have to ratchet down so dramatically, uh, you know, once you.... Once you leave it,
and....and so I think there's....there's a carryover effect, in other words, when you set a
certain speed on an arterial and then expect the driver to make an adjustment once they
move into the residential areas. So, or a neighborhood proper, so... you know, I....I do
think the 25 makes sense as a general approach.
Mims/I'll just reiterate. I...I don't agree. I think arterials are designed to carry more traffic.
They're designed more to get people from point A to point B. I....I think people are very
used to,for decades, of the idea you turn off an interstate you slow down. You turn off
an arterial into a neighborhood you slow down, I mean I think people are very used to
that. Um, I think we're gonna have a lot of difficulty with enforcement of 25-miles-an-
hour, and I think that in itself can be a safety issue in that that's how you have it posted
but that's not what people are driving at at all, because they're not in the city, and that
was the other thing when I was looking at the NACTO stuff that I had difficulty with was
a lot of the stuff talked about `urban' street design. To me, when you start looking at
McCollister,you start looking at American Legion,to me those aren't urban. I mean
it's....they're coming in to the city,to me....and it may be just be my misunderstanding
of how NACTOs means it,but to me I would think of urban more in the city, like in the
neighborhoods, in downtown Iowa City, or if you're in a huge city, you know, in the
middle of Los Angeles or whatever,but to me these arterial streets coming in are moving
you from one part of the city to another, like Foster where you're not gonna have a whole
lot of curb cuts along Foster,um, why are we putting that down to 25-miles-an-hour? I
mean.....you.....people aren't gonna drive it. I think you actually could potentially have
a lot more safety problems when you post a speed limit that people are not realistically
going to follow.
Cole/One quick rejoinder to that is that in the future we are gonna have residential subdivisions
in proximity to those, so I would agree with you now. They're sort of empty spaces, but I
think in the future,you're gonna see a lot higher residential be....density. So I think you
bring up good(mumbled)
Mims/And I think the other point that's....related to that, Rockne,too is, and this is important
with McCollister, is....how does that design fit in with the development of the
neighborhood and how and where do we allow curb cuts, and....and crosswalks, so that
roads don't become a barrier to people getting to the other side or difficult to get on and
off, but if you....if you're careful about the design. It's just like with Taft, we've said
very carefully there's not gonna be many curb cuts out onto Taft because eventually we
want that to be paved and be truck traffic, get that....get them off of Scott Boulevard, etc.
So I think the same thing is important as we look at McCollister and these others, how
and where do we put those curb cuts in terms of safety.
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Botchway/Yeah, I would agree as well. Urn,just with the urban areas piece, I mean I pulled up
NACTO just because I was remembering the same piece around urban areas and being
somewhat confused about kind of the picture in the diagram that they were showing here
and the arterial streets that we were talking about just now, and so I think greater
articulation as far as what we define urban areas to be, I think, would be important,
assuming that we're moving forward in the current majority. Urn, I would also say, I
would agree about the arterial streets, and I was being sarcastic about my 20-mile-an-
hour,urn, piece, you know. We're a growing community and so I...I'm just not
necessarily understanding, um....I....I get the approach of wanting to change to be multi-
modal, wanting to change to incorporate more pedestrian and....and bicycles. Urn, but
you know I feel like you know I think I threw out maybe a year ago this conversation
around shared streets and having opportunities to share the street with bicycles, not
necessarily from a buffered bike lane standpoint, but having bicyclists on the road and
that's done in different countries, that's done in Seattle, Washington, uh,that's done in
different areas,but I mean obviously we're not moving forward in that sense right now,
but I...I guess I'm just not....I'm not understanding it for....the.....the motorists, and
again I understand that we're focusing on all areas, but I feel like.....the motorists isn't a
part of this in general conversation, because literally all areas....so residential dwellings,
not necessarily conducive for motorists, I mean and I get that. It's more about residential
and focusing on slowing down speed limits. Now we're saying arterials are gonna be
more about how we slow down the speed limits for more walking and bicycling, and so
....you know, my issue from a motorist standpoint is like where is the ability to get across
town with any type of....speed. I mean I....somebody made the joke or, um....the joke or
comment not too long ago, you know, we....we used to be a 10-minute town. Now we're
talkin' about bein' a 15-minute town. Now I feel like we're tryin' to be a 25-minute
town, and I don't necessarily know if that' conducive to the growth that we're talking
about coming into our community. Urn,the last piece I would say is....oh, uh, is around
bike lanes, and so I would say in general, if we're talking about sharing the street from a
buf....a bike lane standpoint, I remember you know just campaigning not too long ago,
people weren't even interested in, and I appreciate you bringing it up,uh, First Avenue,
cause what....what is First Avenue? Is that 35? Twenty-five.
Taylor/(both talking) ...the speed limit. (several talking)
Botchway/Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's 25, cause I drive it all....I just wanted to make sure, cause I
was (mumbled) it's 25. Nobody rides their bicycle down there. Urn....the issue for me is
is people wanted to see more buffered bike lanes, and so I don't necessarily know that
we're, even at the slower speed limits,which is,urn,again using a, the Southeast, First
Avenue inter...or roadway as an example, we haven't seen a....a proliferation of more
bicyclists using that area. If anything it's been non-existent, at least as much as I drive it.
So I....I guess I'm feeling like, you know, I understand our agenda or our desire to do
some things around this, urn, conversation to make roadways more safe,but again I'm...
I'm just missing the piece where,urn, why arterial streets. Before you know it you're
going to tell me that Mormon Trek is going to be down to 25. Maybe you are telling me
that, I don't know, but I think that's the arterial conversation I think is drastically separate
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Page 27
than....the residential conversation. I feel like we're tryin' to, you know, put the two
together.
Throgmorton/I'd like to note that there are lots of arterials in Iowa City that have speed limits of
35-miles-an-hour, and they have....the ones I'm thinking of have houses that face onto
the roads. I'm thinkin' about Dodge Street, Governor Street,uh, the first part of Mormon
Trek, a....a large part of Benton Street. I'm probably missing some others.
Mims/Dodge and Governor are 25, aren't they? Yeah.
Throgmorton/Didn't I say that? That's what I meant to say (several talking) I'm sorry! I meant
to say 25. Thank you for catchin' that(laughs) cause I definitely didn't mean 35
(laughing)
Botchway/ I was like....great! (laughter)
Throgmorton/Yeah, and there's....there's really....this isn't.....the way this really connects with
the design of neighborhoods is that if you have um, arterials that cut through new
developments with 35-mile-an-hour speeds,then people will do just like Susan
suggested. They will come off of`collectors' onto arterials and then they'll drive as
quickly as they can, without getting a ticket(laughs) Some people do that(laughs)right?
(laughing) Urn, on the arterial, or....you can have multiple routes within neighborhoods
so that people can have multiple routes of getting to where they wanna go, and....that
calls for lower speeds, lower speed limits, through design not by sig....not just by a sign,
but through design. Or even these, uh,roads that are more thoroughfares rather than,uh,
purely, um...uh, residential streets. So,the best example of that I can think of is the
Northside neighborhood, where you've got this grid of.....of streets, where people drive
typically something like 20 to 25-miles-an-hour.
Mims/Yeah, but that's...to me, Jim,that's more when that's part of that neighborhood
(mumbled) is either their destination or their starting point. It's not...if they're trying to
get from point A to point B and it's not in that Northside neighborhood, they're not going
through that grid of streets, and so when we look at McCollister, and your goal here is to
have something around the south side of the city.....I .I think you still have to have
that arterial that can....can carry traffic at say 35-miles-an-hour, and like I said, I think
we've got to look at how we really design those neighborhoods,both north and south of
it. I think we gotta look very carefully at how we do that, but I don't think that means
you take McCollister down to 25-miles-an-hour.....and narrow it up so it's just one the
"local streets." I don't think you're gonna....I think you're gonna end up with another
Langenberg.
Botchway/I think you're....I think people are, I mean, I guess I can even speak for...well, speak
for a hypothetical person. They'll use Langenberg because it's a closer shot to get to
where you're going to. I wouldn't....the hypothetical person wouldn't use 25 to go
further down(both talking)
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Mims/ ....south.....
Botchway/ ....and then come back up. You would just use the quickest route to get there.
Mims/Right.
Botchway/ So if....I mean I'm interested in, you know,to that extent if we move forward I'll be
interested in what the data shows, cause, urn, you know, I won't be doing it, but the
hypothetical, you know, may be thinking about that, and I think that's what we need to
talk about and think about, because I would agree with Susan. I mean ultimately we're
talking about how we're moving traffic through and not necessarily impacting those, um
....(mumbled) say thoroughfares but I meant, you know, those streets between that are
more residential.
Mims/And I do think that this plan that the staff has brought us does address a lot more than just
the motorist. I think....I think the, uh, bike lanes, I think having an 8-foot sidewalk on
one side of each of these streets, so people who walk and/or bicyclists who aren't
comfortable on the roadway, can get off from the roadway and ride on the wide paths,
and we have a huge biking community here, and let me tell ya, this is gonna be as good
and a whole lot better than a lot of what they get when they get outside of the city. A lot
of these people, you know, are riding all the time and, I mean they're riding Sand Road
down to Hills, and you've got just a paved shoulder. Urn, this is gonna be a huge
improvement, and I....I think it is....very....I think it's well designed. I think it's well
thought out with the national standards. I think it's gonna do what we need for our
motorists. I think it's gonna be a huge improvement for, urn, bicyclists, and it's gonna
give walkers,joggers great opportunity with either the 5-foot or the 8-foot sidewalks.
Cole/(mumbled) good point, Susan, in the sense that 11-foot, feet, is a victory in a sense, as
opposed to the 12. So I do want to commend staff for that, and again, I think if they
come back to us at a subsequent work session and just say that what we want to do in
terms of the 10 and 25 is inconsistent with again that minimally recognized professional
standard, um, then I would defer to staff's expertise on that,but I would want to make
sure that they come back with that report and explain why. So I wanna keep an open
mind, you know, express our policy preference, while at the same time recognizing, you
know, staff's expertise in terms of NAFT....NACTO as well as the other recognized
design standards, SUDAS.
Throgmorton/So has anybody not commented yet about the....the 25, with regard to all three
streets? I....I think I heard one, two....I support that idea, three, so I see five people who
prefer the 25 for all streets. I think your caveat's a good one, Rockne. Uh, so, uh....Ron,
uh, Jason, we need some....uh, clarity, some feedback about that, if...if there are...if we're
blundering in terms of what the....the.....the appropriate standards are. I mean, however
you phrased it, Rockne.
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Dilkes/ Well I think Rockne makes a good point, and I'll just say it now for this and the lane
width, etc., is that, you know, the immunity we get for liability is if our....is if the design
is in accordance with generally recognized standards.
Throgmorton/Yeah, and I understand there's....there's(both talking)discretion and that, so we
have to make sure with....we're within that window of....
Dilkes/Right!
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Thomas/Well and I think there is flexibility. This is what I'm seeing as I look at the standards,
is that, uh, there is an acknowledged range, and um....that it's.....it's up to the....you
know,the....decision-making process within any one community as to how we arrive
with both, you know, the technical, uh,perspective, the perspective of the user, you
know,we haven't talked about, again,the um....you know,the vulnerabilities of specific
user groups, children in particular,have,urn.....more limited ability to perceive speed
and distance with....when encountering motor vehicles. And so....you know,
that....that's a perspective I think that sometimes doesn't get factored in to, you know,
the decision-making process. That....that particular group isn't represented when we
have these conversations. Um....so....so I think there....in my mind what I am seeing,
because this is a very dynamic field, is the acknowledgement that flexibility is important
in understanding, you know,how to arrive at a .a design standard.
Throgmorton/Okay, I wanna draw our attention to three other...uh,decisions we should make
here. One has to do with the underpass. Do we want the underpass or not? Second is the
south sidewalk on American Legion Road that Mazahir referred to, and the third, uh,
relates to....ensuring adequate safety for especially school kids crossing at the
roundabouts. So, I....yeah, so....the underpass. Who's...who's, uh,persuaded that the
underpass is the best approach, given the topography,uh, given safety for....mainly kids,
uh, and parents crossing American Legion Road and so on. Who prefers that?
Thomas/I'm gonna say that,you know, in looking at the plan,because I have real concerns
coming into this,beginning with the underpass concept. I'm not seeing that, if I
understand correctly,there's real....any significant cost associated with that because of
the grades, uh....so.....so that's one thing. It's not something....because of the grades
that require a lot of retaining walls and so forth in order to get down to that level. Uh, I
do still have concerns about the experience of the tunnel. I think that's an issue. Um, but
I'd say what....I'm,where I am now is that,uh, I....I don't know that I would say we....
We should not move forward with the tunnel,but I have real concerns about the
intersection at Barrington and, uh, L...American Legion in terms of....um, a safe crossing
there, because I'm not expecting everyone to use that tunnel. (several talking in
background) And so....if,um, you know, we do have a significant number of people
who are still going to be crossing at that intersection. I look at that intersection and, you
know, it's another Barrington in terms of the width of the street, at least on the west side,
uh,that...that pedestrians and bicyclists will have to cross. So I....I do think we're....
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we're creating another Camp Cardinal situation, uh, that, you know(laughs) uh, I think
needs to be looked at in terms of, you know, we've created that crossing distance. Now
how can we make it a safe crossing because it is adjacent to, urn, you know, an
elementary school. So I'm kind of, in my mind, fine with the tunnel but I....I see a real,
uh, issue with the intersection. I think the south sidewalk makes sense, urn.....and then if
we have the south sidewalk the roundabout question isn't as critical.
Throgmorton/I personally think you make a very good point about the underpass. My guess is
that parents would really prefer to be able to use an underpass,rather than have their kids
cross on the surface of the street. Though I know you and I talked about it a little bit
beforehand, I was leanin' toward that,uh, that approach,but I think the underpass makes
sense, and you make a really good point with regard to the....the pedestrian crossing on
the surface, at, uh....um....uh, Barrington...I wrote Burlington, at Barrington.
So....maybe we can be careful a....about the design for that pedestrian crossing, and I...I,
I don't know, are the rest of you okay(several talking)
Taylor/ ....still not really keen on the underpass idea, for a number of reasons. Aesthetically for
one reason. I....I don't think it looks all that great, uh, and as well as....historically in
this town,uh, tunnels/underpasses have been subject to graffiti, and I think that would not
be a good thing for these students, uh, if they're going through that tunnel and....as well
as safety,not the crossing the street safety,but the safety as far as, uh, I don't even like to
talk about that,but as far as predators. I mean there are a number of children particularly
of the upper ages, 5th and 6th grade so to speak,uh, 10, 11, 12-year-olds that maybe have
after school activities, so they're....they would be going through that tunnel at off-school
kinds of hours that,uh,there wouldn't be a lot of adult supervision or other kids around.
So, uh, I have....I have concerns that way, but urn, if I can be persuaded that it's, uh,
safer as far as crossing the street standard,um, I might be persuaded.
Cole/I'm not in love with the underpass. But...um, I view this as sort of the flip side of that
great discussion, that great mythical discussion we had with the School District on
Horace Mann. Um,where they reached out to us and we gave their input, um....I'm....
I'm gonna support the underpass,but I think especially along this area, I would really
like, I mean if the School District's interested, either through Steve or the School Board,
to get some other feedback in terms of....I'm preliminary supportive of the sidewalk. I
think that's important, but....but if it's possible, I would like to do that before we make
any changes along those lines. I definitely don't think we should make any changes until
we get some other feedback. I think because we are at the beginning of the design
process, hopefully we'd have enough time to do that. I know we have a lot of things in
our work session agenda coming forward, uh, but the...but this is a big issue, and I
wanna make sure that we at least get either a memo for 'em or anything else, but
preliminarily I'm supportive of the south sidewalk,preliminarily I'm supportive of the,
uh, underpass, uh,but it does seem like in terms of maybe another cross....crosswalk
going north, that would seem to be a good idea to at least explore, uh, to the extent that
it's feasible by staff.
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Throgmorton/We're really running out of time here. Uh, anybody else want to say anything
about the underpass?
Botchway/ I'm not sold on the underpass either, (mumbled) also from just a, you know, a school
management standpoint, I agree with, urn, Pauline's point, you know, I was....I was
joking about, well I wasn't joking about the creepiness of it, but ultimately even if there
is lighting, I just....I mean that's a long underpass. I mean so it makes me think about,
you know, what type of potential, um, I mean bullying,harassment that could occur, um,
without, you know, adequate supervision. Not to say that that wouldn't happen on the
top end, but.....I just have some concerns, I mean maybe I need to know a little more
information as far as, you know, what the parents feel and also, um, what it would look
like more clearly. So....
Throgmorton/Yeah, we definitely need feedback from the School District.
Salih/Yes!
Monroe/(several talking) ...arrange that.
Throgmorton/Maz?
Salih/Yeah, I...I agree. We need feedback from School District and from the parent who...
because just like....I get feeling, it just like the light went off or anything, is this going to
be a camera there or, uh, because it's really the width of the street and this is, I don't
know, a lot. Bad things could happen there, without like somebody else seeing or....but
of course if the, you know, the parent feel like this is really safe for their children or the
School recommended, uh, you know, as long as we're gonna provide the safety for it,
lighting and maybe some kind of security camera, or anything, I don't know, but uh....
yeah. We need feedback on this.
Botchway/Jim, I am for the south....south sidewalk.
Throgmorton/We got about a minute to talk about this (several talking) or else we'll have to
revisit....it and the roundabouts afterwards. Anybody wanna say anything about the
south sidewalk? Kingsley, you're on board. Maz, you're on board.
Salih/Yeah.
Cole/I'm on board.
Salih/Pauline....we have four at least!
Mims/I just....my only concern with doing it is.....I understand that we've budgeted the money,
but, you know, what's....what's the opportunity cost in terms of not having developers
pay anything, and I'm also concerned about the idea that kids start using that and that
becomes their habit and as developments starts it gets cut off and they can't use it
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potentially, and you've ingrained in them a habit. Whereas if you start by ingraining in
them the habit of crossing at the roundabout. I agree with Jim, the concern about how do
people get across safely at a roundabout. I totally agree with you there. So I'm
concerned about the disruption potentially and what that means, um, in terms of overall
safety as well.
Throgmorton/Ron?
Knoche/Ron Knoche, Public Works Director. The only thing I wanna mention about this south
sidewalk is that...that's outside of the city limits. So as far as maintaining the sidewalk
and shoveling the sidewalk, we'll have to think through how we will do that. Um,
because we won't have the ability to require that of that south property owner, so....I
think that would mean that we would have to figure out how we're gonna do that. Um,
we have the same concern on the wide sidewalk on the north side. There's a piece that's
outside of the city limits there also. Urn, but it....it's a short, it's a much shorter piece.
Um, but in regards to, you know,the south side of the road, um, I....I, you know,
installing it....that....that's not that hard of a thing to do. It's just gonna be the long-term
maintenance, especially up and to that south side that's in the city limits and there's
development that occurs there. So, I just wanted to mention that before(both talking)
Throgmorton/Okay, before you sit down, Ron,uh, I....the last topic we wanted to touch on was
ensuring safety at the roundabouts. Uh, if in fact that's what we do, and I think...I mean
there's already the one on Sycamore, so we're only really talking about American Legion
Road, and uh, Scott Boulevard. So what can we do to....really ensure that it's safe for
kids to cross there? I worry about that a lot.
Knoche/When....when we had this discussion with the Sycamore, uh, Street construction, um, I
think we were...we were gonna, you know, see if there was any feedback from the School
District in regards to concerns that they had had with....with their students crossing,
going to Alexander. Urn, and....and I.....I haven't....(mumbled) seek input from them,
but we haven't had complaints either, um, but I'm not certain how many students are
actually walking to that school and how many are actually bused there.
Throgmorton/Yeah, and that will change, of course, once the area develops.
Knoche/Right. Yeah. Yeah, and....um, you know, in....in regards to the roundabout, it....at
Scott Boulevard and...and American Legion Road, you know, I think part of that
was...was to, you know, try to maintain the truck traffic along Scott Boulevard, and
obviously with the stop sign there, in the winter when the hill gets slick, it....it just backs
up traffic. Um, you know, but if the concern is, you know, that....that crossing is a
concern, similar we looked at, urn, down on McCollister and south Gilbert Street, um,
maybe we should be lookin' at what....what a signalized intersection would look like at
that intersection versus introducing the roundabout there.
Cole/Ron, super quick, um, how feasible and how expensive is a traffic island? Is that
something you really can't even opine on until ya look at the intersection?
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Knoche/Well...with, urn, with....with the roundabouts, there's....there's already a traffic island
built in as far as that crossing width. So, you know, you....you, the pedestrian crosses
into the splitter island, and then they....so they're crossing, you know, everybody, all the
traffic's coming from the left, right, until you get to the splitter island. Then it's corrin'
from the right, so you know there is a.....there is a....a, kind of a pedestrian refuge island
already built into the way the design of the roundabouts are built.
Throgmorton/Kent, you look like you're gonna say somethin'! (laughs)
Ralston/Yeah,Kent Ralston, Transportation Planner. Yeah, Ron's exactly right. The other
couple things I wanted you to think about too,with respect to the roundabout, are you've
had a conversation about speed and the speed at which a....a pedestrian's hit and the, you
know, the fatality rate is on that bell curve, but, urn....you also want to think about the
fact that when they....when we do construct a roundabout, they actually twist that whole
roundabout to slow traffic down purposefully. There's also advisory speed limits. The
difference between that and of course the signal then is if somebody blows through a red
light, you're hit at potentially full speed, where if you ever were potentially hit at a
roundabout, the idea is that the speed is around 15-mile-an-hour. The other thing is with
the crossing with school children is, uh, two-lane roundabouts, uh, almost everybody
agrees that they're not really that pedestrian friendly. So when there's actually two lanes,
and in this case, uh, the recommendation is for a single lane, and it's...the jury's really
out. You'll say studies say about half the time, um, they say it's worse for pedestrians.
The other half a signal's better for pedestrians. But, at the end of the day I think it...I
think the design would be good and....urn, you've also gotta think about the....the
alternatives for traffic signal, which are potential of people blowing through red lights,
urn, noise, acceleration, braking, that sort of thing.
Throgmorton/Good, very helpful! I don't think we have time now to pursue that any further, but
I....I hope we've provided you with the kind of guidance you need to proceed. I want to
thank Jason, uh, for makin' such an excellent presentation about the....the roads and, you
know, where things stand, what the estimated costs are for those roadways and
everything else like that. And....thank our Council for having a pretty thorough
discussion about this. Okay, so we're gonna take a break there, come back to....oh,
clarification of agenda items (laughs) Maybe we won't really do that because.....we will
conduct the formal meeting. So we're gonna adjourn now and come back to the formal
meeting at 7:00.
(BREAK FOR FORMAL MEETING)
(RECONVENE WORK SESSION)
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/ ...return to our work session for April the 2"d, 2018. We're gonna pick up with
clarification of agenda items, not because we need clarification to make decisions,but
•
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maybe there was some point somebody wanted to make about any one of the items. So,
are there any particular items anybody wants to bring up?
Item 4f(7)Angie Jordan: Affordable Housing on SE-side of IC
Salih/Yeah, for me I would like talk about Item......4f(7),a letter from Angie Jordan.
Throgmorton/Yeah, the one about affordable housing on the southeast side. Yeah. What...what
did you wanna say, Maz?
Salih/I guess I.....after I read this letter I ask like, uh.....to see exactly why she sending that
letters, and I find out that there is something could come to us, maybe(unable to
understand) um....from one of the committee....the Housing Committee,and uh, about,
uh,the approving a program for the I guess southeast side or....is that the south side?
Like Taylor and Davis? (unable to understand) ...the City planning to buy....a houses
there, and uh, like....for, uh, like neighborhood stability, where they buy a house and I
guess maybe remodel it and sell it, uh, you know, again. I....I think this is really, to me
at least,is not a good idea because we are displacing the people who live there, even
though I know that the City,uh,my understanding after I talked to Tracy Hightshoe, she
said that they gonna pay....if say the person there moved on other side of the city, but
their rent they was paying there is $700 and they will pay the$800 the City is willing to
kind of paying the difference for four years,but it still, you know(unable to understand)
is affordable....one of the affordable area in Iowa City. Uh, if we are doing that, really
we are displacing people and we are reducing the rental affordable housing in Iowa City
this way. And, uh, why should I just move because of like four years of rent difference
and my kids would have new school. I have new neighbors and....uh, I....I think rather
than doing this,maybe we can discuss this later,but rather than doing this, uh, if we had
like good option buying it, selling to the same person who live there,because those
people as long as they paying rent, that means they paying the person mortgage,the
person insurance, the person tax, that means they are(unable to understand) anyway, this
is just something that I really want the Council to pay attention to it before it come to us.
So you....when it come,you have really good idea about what's going on.
Throgmorton/Yeah, and it was.....mentioned by Angie....Jordan in her letter, or email to us,
right, so.....yeah. Um, well we'll have to address that when it comes to us.
Salih/(both talking) Yes, exactly! Yeah, I(both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...thoughts to us.
Salih/Uh huh.
Item 4e(4)Asphalt Resurfacing 2018—US Hwy 1 (Burlington Street and Governor
Street)-Resolution setting a public hearing on April 17,2018 on plans,
specifications,form of contract, and estimate of cost for the construction of the
Asphalt Resurfacing 2018—US Hwy 1 (Burlington Street and Governor Street)
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Project, directing City Clerk to publish notice of said hearing, and directing the City
Engineer to place said plans on file for public inspection
Throgmorton/Okay, uh, anything else? (mumbled) with regard to 4e(4), I think, Ashley and
Simon, you're probably the people who can answer this (laughs) if anybody can! 4e(4)
says....is about the resolution about setting a public hearing concerning resurfacing
Burlington Street. So I found myself wondering about resurfacing the Riverside Drive. I
think that's something that's going to happen this year, as well. Do you have any idea
when that's gonna come to us?
Andrew/I don't know the timing of it. I don't know the timing of it, but that is this year as well.
Throgmorton/Okay.
Dilkes/I think that's an item on the next....on April 17. At least that's what I saw today from
(mumbled)
Throgmorton/Okie dokie.
Taylor/(mumbled) north Riverside Drive that you're referring to?
Throgmorton/Well no, Riverside.....from Highway....
Andrew/From the highway all the way up into Coralville(several talking)
Throgmorton/ ....through the....to the city limits, right?
Andrew/Yep!
Item 4d(2) Riverfront Crossings Park, Phase 3 - Resolution awarding contract and
authorizing the Mayor to sign and the City Clerk to attest a contract for
construction of the Riverfront Crossings Park, Phase 3 Project
Throgmorton/Yeah. So it's like the Governor Street thing, it's big resurfacing project. Uh, one
other thing, Item 4d(2) which is about Riverfront Crossings Phase 3. I'm just really glad
to see this, uh, I...I know that it, we had to pull, what, one....shelter and restroom out, and
then proceed with everything else,right? Yeah. So it goes! Anything else in terms of
agenda items? All right, can we turn to info packet discussion, the March 22"d packet.
Information Packet Discussion 1March 22, March 291:
Throgmorton/I'll plead guilty to Item 2, 1132, the two articles about autonomous vehicles. I
thought they were both pretty enlightening about....what's, uh, what's involved and what
cities can do....through policy with regard to, uh.....introducing autonomous vehicles
into communities. I found 'em pretty stimulating to read actually.
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Mims/1P4, urn, we'll have another meeting before then so have a chance to announce it again,
but the Community Police Review Board forum is on April 23rd. That's at the Iowa City
Public Library.
Throgmorton/Right.
Cole/ IP3, I was really pleased to see the, urn, corning together of the Advisory Committee. I
think we're gonna get a lot of good, really targeted, um, recommendations and looking at
the people that are involved in that, it's a good cross section of people, that really
understand the issues and get things done. So I'm looking forward to see what the
recommendations are.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Yeah. Me too! Anything else on the March 22nd packet? How bout March
29?
Mims/Ashley,or Simon, can you....I read part of IP7, the non-compliance letter. Do you...have
....any, can you give us a brief synopsis of how severe that really is? Maybe we should
of....
Monroe/Oh!
Mims/ ...wait until Ron is here or whatever. It had to do with our storm water, and it....as far as
I got through I didn't really see a whole lot, but I didn't....I'll have to admit I didn't read
the entire memo in great detail.
Monroe/Well the summary of....the summary provided by Ben Clark, our....our Engineer, gives
a good,um....just a single-page summary of, uh, of the steps we're taking to rectify the
non-compliance issues. So one of them is the,uh, failure to specifically target new
residents and businesses about what, you know, our....our storm water programs. So we
target all residents, but not specifically new residents. So we're making an effort to do
that.
Mims/ Okay.
Monroe/So overall it's just a....a program notification kind of issue. Um, there have been, uh,
there was a misinterpretation of...permitting, uh, and staff in the past has
used.....discretion as far as illicit discharges and notifying the IDNR. So we're going to
just, uh, notify them of all (both talking) all at this point. Um....and then we have the...
weekly inspection reports. Um, we're going to continue to...to monitor the inspection
reports at time of quarterly inspections and then the last thing was, uh, to submit a
specific report, uh, by the end of April. So there is just a....a delay in the submittal of
that report and so there's a plan in place to get it in on time.
Mims/My apologies. I guess I (both talking) so fast I missed his letter(laughs)
Monroe/There was quite a bit of information (both talking)
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Mims/ (laughing) I think I jumped to the next one and missed his letter. Sorry!
Monroe/So it describes exactly what we're doing to....to identify the issues.
Mims/Thank you.
Taylor/I agree, Susan,though, it sounded a little bit....not good!
Mims/Well any time you(several talking)any time you get a non-compliance letter from a State
agency, you just kinda want to know what's going on, and like I say I....theirs was so
long I gave up reading it all in detail and I happened to skip by his nice detailed letter
(laughs)
Dilkes/(several talking) They weren't proposing to assess any penalties or(mumbled) that was
a positive.
Cole/And I was interested in that too. As many of you know I've had sort of an interest in this
issue of storm water, you know the issue of piping it away or on-site,but I think it seems
like primarily their review was just the reporting issues, and it wasn't really the policy
itself, that they didn't have any concerns with that,which I was pleased with.
Dilkes/Yeah.
Throgmorton/Uh, I'd like to say a couple things about IP#4, which is pending work session
topics. On...uh, strategic plan actions, Item#5,which concerns the$15 an hour
minimum wage. Uh, I noticed that the County Supervisors decided to increase the
minimum wage for all of its....employees, in a step-wise fashion toward $15, and we
need to obtain information about that, seems to me. You're probably already doin' it
but....we need to know what they did. And, uh, what....what they thought about when
they were doin' it too (laughs) One other thing has to do with....uh, a topic that was on
one of our lists last meeting and I don't remember what we decided to do with it, but the
topic was update on progress from the, you know (coughing,unable to hear speaker)
work session regarding the Lusk Avenue building. Did we completely delete that topic,
or is....is it being handled in a different kind of way? I do not remember. I....I thought it
was gonna continue to be on our work session agenda, but I....I don't claim to know for
sure.
Monroe/I'd have to refer to my notes from.....last meeting. I may be able to get you a...okay,
so....that was included within the requests of staff, um....items and it was just looking for
an update on the progress. So....I believe we....we determined that we'll....we'll
continue to get that update to you. (mumbled)working with,um, staff to identify exactly
the issues that, urn, for a review. Um....
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Dilkes/Yes, we met, I mean we talked, at the development code meeting last week we....we
talked about the status of...of the various items and....and I know there's a report coming
to you. I can't remember what the decision was on the work session itself, but....
Monroe/We maybe starting with a....a report and based on the topics that are,uh, explored, as
far as our opportunities to....to make changes (mumbled)not those made individually
come to you as a.....as a particular item or as a work session topic. Um....but I think
initially we're planning to do some type of just general informational notice to what...to
what the issues are (both talking)
Dilkes/There were....there were some issues that can be pretty eas.....like the representation
issue and...(mumbled) with that and the....there's the BOA alternate issue, um,the....the
biggest issues are the, um, the zoning code changes, and I....I think, uh,NDS staff is...is
researching those, um, still and....and I think we're gonna talk about what
recommendations to make, or those...those, I can see those being the...the ones that would
come to you for more (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Good, I....I just want to make sure we don't lose sight of it.
Dilkes/No.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Okay. Good deal! Thanks!
Cole/I'm wondering, normally we don't have.....for work sessions, members of the public
participate in the work session. Sometimes we have though, haven't we?
Throgmorton/We can.
Cole/Okay.
Mims/Only if we've asked somebody to come and give a particular presentation usually.
Cole/Oh, okay. Okay, well, um...you know as long as they weren't sort of focusing on the past,
and wanted to constructively work with us for future recommendations,um, that might be
somethin' we'd want to explore, um, cause I think they could at least give us that
feedback in terms of, um, what direction they want to go.
Mims/You're talking about members of that neighborhood?
Cole/Yeah (both talking) is that not possible?
Mims/ I would be(both talking)
Cole/ ...go back in time?
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Mims/ I would be incredibly cautious on that, because to me every....I've met with them. I think
Jim has met with them, and to me every communication we've had since then is still
going back. It's still going back and saying what they feel was done wrong. I....I think
we have all that information. I think we need to move forward with all that information.
I don't have confidence that....we could have a constructive conversation without it
going back again.
Cole/Okay.
Throgmorton/Yeah (several talking) and as....as you all know, I....I have shared a....email or
letter, I can't remember which it was, to Karin Southard who's the President of the
Neighborhood Association, indicating....that....we're not gonna re-litigate past court
decisions, and....and yet committing ourselves to....
Cole/Future....(several talking)
Mims/And I say that, Rockne, with the deepest sense of....uh, empathy for them for what has
happened in their neighborhood.
Cole/Yes!
Mims/Um, because I wouldn't want that particular type of structure being built next to me, but
....I don't believe that that would be the most productive way for us to move forward. I
think we have all the information and understanding(both talking)
Thomas/ ...staff....so you're working on a memo to...to the Council, is that what I was hearing?
Regarding....Lusk?
Dilkes/We have been discussing what....what the parameters of a report to Council on it.
Thomas/ So we don't really have a timeline on that,when....when we might see that, or a sense
of when we might see that?
Dilkes/ I don't know what decision has been made. (mumbled) Geoff on that.
Thomas/Because I...I am concerned that the....it seems like a fair amount of time has elapsed
and uh, yes, there....the correspondence we're hearing is backward looking, but I am
concerned about their vulnerabilities, uh, looking forward. So....
Dilkes/I think the commitment made by Andy's staff at the last development code meet, we
have a development meeting every week, was to report to the group in a couple weeks.
And then the group would make a decision about where to go. I mean,part of this is....is
based on the fact that NDS is swamped, and (both talking)
Throgmorton/...good news is we have retired two new people (both talking)
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Dilkes/Right,that's....that's great but I mean we went through the whole (both talking)
Mims/ ...take them time to get up to speed too (both talking)
Dilkes/ ....it just hasn't,you know, unfortunately it's time (mumbled)
Throgmorton/Okay, so we all are on the same wave length here. I think we can turn to Council
updates.
Fruehling/Jim, with the upcoming joint meeting, um, they're asking for agenda items. I just got
an email today. Is that something that....
Throgmorton/Well that's pretty nervy of'em (laughs)
Fruehling/(both talking) you and Geoff normally(mumbled)
Mims/We normally do it here, Kellie. (several talking)
Throgmorton/Well, let's brainstorm items here. 1-380 widening. We need....have a
conversation with other entities, for sure, so that we can explore things and maybe come
to some kind of mutually agreeable course of action, but.....maybe....maybe, I think the
joint entities might be a good, uh, place to do part of that. Lookin' pretty concerned.
Dilkes/Oh, I-380. I just didn't(several talking)
Throgmorton/ ...sorry, am I speaking too softly? My bad (both talking)
Dilkes/ I-380.
Throgmorton/Okay, so I-380, uh, widening. What else?
Salih/I don't know really,just....if there is any other question before I can suggest? Is there any
way, this is a meeting with the Board of Supervisors, right?
Throgmorton/No, it's with the Board of Supervisors with Coralville,North Liberty....
Salih/Oh, okay.
Throgmorton/ ....School Board.
Salih/But do we have like some....do we have like a Board Supervisor meeting (unable to
understand) by themself or we don't have (several talking)
Throgmorton/We're gonna have one in September.
Salih/Like City and (several talking)
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Throgmorton/We....we did one....a year ago? (several talking in background)
Taylor/Do you think they'd wanna know anything about ped mall, update on the ped mall or...
we're too far away from it just yet for it to start? Okay. Okay.
Mims/It's usually....issues that impact across boundaries.
Cole/Super touchy topic, but we we want to bring up this question of who's gonna be in our jail
alternatives center? Um, is that too sensitive? There are....
Mims/ Sensitive.
Cole/ ....certain groups that are not participating. Are we going to have a game plan for that, in
terms of getting people in?
Mims/There's an effort going on,yes.
Cole/Okay. (both talking)
Mims/ ...do not think that,yeah. I don't think that's the place,but thanks for(both talking)
Cole/Okay!
Mims/ ...but yeah.
Throgmorton/About status of,uh,the Gateway project. More concrete's bein' poured(laughter)
Mims/You know, that....that might not be a bad idea, Jim, because if I'm recollecting, Simon
and Ashley, help me. Aren't we talking about 60-day closure of the Park Road and
Dubuque Street intersection?
Monroe/Yes.
Mims/ I think the more times we can get that out publicly and prepare people,that's right in the
middle of fall semester and football season, and First Avenue and....is it First Avenue or
whatever in Coralville is gonna be still under construction, it's gonna be a mess this fall
getting into Iowa City(several talking)and the resurfacing, depending upon when that's
going on, so....I think that could be a good idea,just kind of an update on the Gateway
project.
Monroe/Okay, update of construction projects,road projects that would concern....
Thomas/Riverside Drive.
Mims/(several talking) yeah, I think....
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Monroe/ ...communities?
Mims/Yeah.
Monroe/Okay.
Mims/We can at least give 'em an update on ours and....how are you gonna get in and out of
Iowa City this fall (laughter)
Throgmorton/Yeah,that's(several talking)very fruitful topic it seems to me(several talking)
Anything else? Well, something else comes to mind,please let me and....Geoff and....
Kellie know, soon. All right, can we move to Council updates. Let's start with Kingsley.
Where's Kingsley? Let's start with Pauline, and move to the left.
Council updates on assigned boards, commissions and committees:
Taylor/I just, uh,had another ECI....ECICOG,East Central Iowa Council of Governments
meeting, and now it's I have to say, it's not a committee that people fight over being
appointed to, but I would encourage it because it's economic development on a larger
scale than....than Iowa City and I've found it very interesting, urn, and it actually is an
entity that, uh,plans with a regional perspective and represents,uh, eight counties—Linn,
Cedar, Iowa, Johnson, Jones, Linn, Tama, and Washington, and so it's also a great
opportunity to meet, uh,representatives from those counties, uh,both on a supervisor
level and city governments,uh, are appointed, as well as some city representatives.
There's a city representative from Johnson County,but I...I don't remember his name and
I didn't recognize him,but uh, they also take citizen input, which is good. Meets on
monthly basis,uh, disadvantage is that it does meet in Cedar Rapids and occasionally at
some of the other locations, some of the other counties, so it does involve some travel
time, but I....I really enjoy it and learn a lot about the big picture of all the counties and
how we're working together on similar projects.
Throgmorton/So speaking of ECICOG,they're involved in this Express Bus service and the Car
Pool/Van Pool service. Can you tell us any more about that? About what they are doing?
Taylor/ Providing some financial support, I believe, from.....on the ECI....COG, uh, standpoint,
cause that's another thing. They actually have a board of directors, uh, and a building, a
very lovely building in....in Cedar Rapids, an old refurbished, uh, manufacturing
building, and so the....that board of directors has a pot of money, I believe each city or
county, uh, pays a fee,we pay a fee to them, and these fees all get into a big pot and so
then they offer some financial assistance. So they are looking at helping to provide
financial assistance for that,uh, as far as, urn,vehicles,which is going to be the costly
part of it, and....and planning a route. Is that....what you were wondering about? Yeah,
so it's(both talking)
Throgmorton/I knew they were playing a role (both talking)didn't know the details. Uh huh.
Okay. Anything else? Susan?
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Mims/Nope. I gave mine before. (laughs)
Thomas/Well we had the, uh, I mean all of us other than you had the MPOJC meeting last week,
and uh....the....the majority voted to opt out of the swap for the federal aid. So it was
fairly lengthy and unusual meeting(laughs) I would say for a....an MPO meeting, uh, but
all of us....voted to opt out. Uh, I think there were only four....
Salih/Four, yeah.
Thomas/Four representatives who supported the swap.
Salih/Twelve to four.
Thomas/So it was an interesting....
Throgmorton/Yeah,that's unusual (both talking) vote and the....it's not unanimous.
Thomas/Which went against the,you know,the Technical Advisory Committee and....so,yeah,
it was sort of unusual, I would say.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Okay.
Thomas/Certainly lively.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Anything else,John? No?
Cole/Maybe we could elaborate just a little bit on that,that one of the practical impacts of that is
that for these federally funded road projects we'll maintain Davis Bacon wages, which
are essentially a federal minimum wage for transportation entities that accept a portion of
federal funds, is my understanding. So it was a really big impact, I think, on local
workers and also in terms of, you know, the oversight on these projects. So it...it was a
very lively discussion, and urn, candidly I'd like to see more of those on MPOJC.
Salih/Yeah I guess(laughs, unable to understand)was great meeting,and uh....um, a lot people
participate and came and talk about what it is and you guys it was....good to see that, all
the Iowa City Council Member(unable to understand) Yeah(mumbled) great!
Throgmorton/Anything else, Maz?
Salih/No.
Throgmorton/All right, I'll mention just one thing. I met with the Convention and Visitors
Bureau Board on the 22nd. Our discussion focused on mainly on upcoming events, like
the, what is it....the United World Wrestling World Cup, RAGBRAI, uh,the UCI
Cyclocross World Cup, which'll be coming up later in the year. Also about construction
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of the new arena in Coralville, and about CVB staff ideas about how to implement their
own strategic plan. So that focused I....if I remember rightly,on four main topics. One
is what they're calling `embrace the river,' which is very similar to what we've talked
about a bit concerning the Iowa River in Iowa City. So I made sure they had a copy of
the Power Point presentation that.....that, uh, staff and I put together. Also,the other
topics were `building a stronger connection with diverse communities.' That's
interesting to know that the CVB board wants to do that. it's a good thing. `Improving
con...inter-connection among bicycle trails,' and uh, `focusing on transportation in the
corridor,' meaning the interstate and basically the light rail line or whatever would go in
that particular right-of-way. So....I mentioned,uh,the letter...in that meeting, I
mentioned the letter that you instructed me to write concerning I-380 and we had a brief
discussion about it, but I wanted to make....I didn't want to be in that meeting and then
have them learn later on that I was supposed to write a letter, for them to feel that they
had not been told(laughs) so....took advantage of that opportunity. Okay,that's it for
me. I think that's it for us. Okay, without objection we're done with our work session
for tonight!
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