HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-09-04 Transcription Page 1
Council Present: Cole, Mims, Salih, Taylor,Thomas, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe, Andrew, Dulek, Fruehling, Seydell-Johnson, Hall,
Schepers, Bockenstedt, Budding, Russett, Sitzman, Hightshoe,Nagle-
Gamm, Knoche, Havel, Weinard
Others Present: Stewart, Wu (UISG)
Discuss parameters of a possible Transfer of Density Rights Ordinance0P3):
Throgmorton/All right, so the first topic.....I don't have the work session agenda right in front
of me. The first topic's gonna be transfer development rights and this excellent memo
that Ann and Danielle put together for us. I assume you're gonna talk our way through it.
I wanna say something for everybody—we need to get through three items tonight and
leave ourselves sufficient time to discuss the questions about the work session agenda.
We....we did not give ourselves enough time to do that last time and we ended up with a
half an hour's discussion during the formal meeting. We do not want that to happen
again tonight. So please....we're not gonna take more than a half an hour, at the most, on
any one of these three major topics that we have in our work session agenda tonight. So
we gotta be focused. (unable to hear person speaking from audience) Is that turned on?
I don't know(several talking) (noises on mic) Nope! (mumbled) (several talking in
background)
Sitzman/ ....for you as quickly as we can to the points that you would like tonight. Just a
reminder that this is,uh, follow up to a memo that you received back in August, with
kind of the general details. Tonight we're really looking for your direction on some key
policy questions. Um, we are gonna discuss five of those policy questions for you, um,
having to do with the(mumbled) for transfer, the formula that gets used to calculate the
amount of square footage that might be transferred; urn, the priority, the relative priority
of a transfer. Those transfers might go geographically and those eligible receiving sites.
As we put together the memo for you,um, we wanted to and as we kind of considered the
components....all right....the components of a TDR program, our objectives of staff was
really to come up with a proposal or to develop a proposal, um, based on your policy
direction that would be fair, legally sound,working with the State Attorney's office, easy
to administer with the staff that we have, simpler for....simpler for developers and the
members of our public to,um, understand, effective so that it would actually get used as
we would intend it to be, and then consistent with the other goals that the City has in our
comprehensive plan. So just a little bit of background on transfer of development rights.
Um (mumbled)yeah, I'm gonna turn it over to Ann at this point. She's gonna walk you
through just a reminder real quick, kinda go through a quick example, and then get into
those policy questions. Okay, this is Ann Russett (mumbled)
Russett/Good afternoon. Um, so I'm gonna provide a little background on TDR and then go
through an example, um, from Riverfront Crossings and our existing policy, and then go
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through some of the research and analysis that we did, and then pose some questions to
you all for feedback. So transfer of development rights in this case is really an incentive
to preserve historic resources where property owners can sell or transfer rights to another
property, urn, so the historic resource would be preserved and then on the receiving site
you would get some additional density or intensity bonus,um, as an incentive to transfer
that development. Um, there is an existing policy for TDR in our Riverfront Crossings
district. This is an example from the Tate Arms Building at 916 S. Dubuque Street. This,
um,property was locally landmarked and took advantage of the TDR program. Urn, in
this case the....in this case they used the Riverfront Crossings transfer formula, which,
um, you look at the numbers of stories allowed on a sending site. For the Tate Arms
Building it was four stories, and you multiply that by the area of the sending site. In this
case it was 8,700 square feet. So the development of rights available for transfer for the
Tate Arms Building was 34,800 square feet. Um, the developer decided to transfer some
of that potential to a receiving site just north at 912 S. Dubuque Street. So again, um, the
total transfer potential is a little over 34,000. Seventy-four hundred square feet were
transferred to 912 S. Dubuque Street, leaving 27,400 square feet remaining on the Ta...
Tate Arm's site that could....could be, um, transferred in the future. This is a slide of our
existing local historic landmarks. We have 52 historic landmarks within the city. A lot
of them are concentrated in the core of the community. I'm gonna give you this
background because the Riverfront Crossings provision, specifically that transfer formula
and these existing historic landmarks, were, um, factored into the analysis that we did.
So when looking at, um, kind of exploring a citywide transfer of development rights
program, we did two analyses, one on sending sites and one on receiving sites. So for the
sending sites analysis we really wanted to identify of all the existing landmarks, how
much development could they potentially transfer. Um, so we only looked at existing
local, um, and national landmarks. There are several other buildings throughout the
community that are eligible for local landmark designation, and the Historic Preservation
Commission is proactively looking to landmark more buildings. So as we landmark more
buildings, this development potential could increase. So we used the Riverfront
Crossings transfer formula and looking at the local landmarks only we're looking at
around, a little over four million square feet that could be transferred to another site. Um,
adding in national landmarks it's a little over five million. So to kind of gauge what is
five million square feet of development, we looked at The Rise. So around 12 Rise
buildings is,uh, around five million square feet. Next we looked at the receiving sites
and we used the sites that staff had proposed to the City Council in the previous memo.
So we were looking at Riverfront Crossings, downtown,uh, south Johnson, south Van
Buren area, and then citywide on sites that allow multi-unit development. So in this
analysis we were trying to gauge,urn, within our existing community how much capacity
we had...capacity do we have for,um, development within these potential receiving areas,
and could they accommodate the....the, uh, transfer potential of the potential sending
areas. So we identified vacant and underutilized sites within these areas. We removed
sites within flood plains,urn, sites with historic buildings on them, and then land that is
publicly zoned. So,um, for all of the sites remaining that were vacant or underutilized,
we estimate that in Riverfront Crossing there's about two and a half million square feet of
development potential, in the downtown,um, around 242,000 square feet of development
potential. Within the downtown, although it is part of our...at the core of our community,
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there are a lot of historic resources within our downtown. So it really reduced the amount
of development potential. In south Johnson and south Van Buren, none of the sites
within that area met our criteria as either vacant or underutilized. Uh, looking citywide at
properties that would allow multi-unit development,um, the development potential we
estimated is around 5.3 million square feet. These are just some maps that show the sites
that were, that either met the vacant or underutilized threshold. This is Riverfront
Crossings, and again, they met our definition of either vacant or underutilized. It doesn't
mean that these sites are necessarily redeveloping. Downtown, and then citywide sites
that allow multi-unit development. So a summary of the analysis is that a significant
amount....there's a significant amount of transfer potential if we apply the Riverfront
Crossings transfer formula to our local historic landmarks, and as I mentioned before, this
will increase as more properties are locally landmarked. So depending on the receiving
sites that are identified for a citywide program, it could potentially be difficult to
accommodate a transfer potential of all....all of our local landmarks. In the research that
we....we did, we identified some issues and possible constraints. Um, one being the
market potential. We haven't studied the market for a....a transfer of development rights
program. We don't know if there's a demand for it. Um, and completing a study by our
January deadline would prove difficult. Um, the second issue is lack of certainty in the
process. When we looked at other jurisdictions' examples of their transfer of
development rights programs, many of them had a non-administrative review and
approval of transfer rights. So it would either go to a board or a commission, or the City
Council. Um, although that's common, it does provide less certainty in the....the ability
to transfer those rights and get that additional bonus. Um, there were some examples,
urn, the City of Minneapolis was one where they allowed an administrative review of
transfers, which would provide more certainty to the development community, and also
to the, urn,property owner who owned the local landmark. Um, lastly other bonus
mechanisms. Urn, what we learned through our research is that if the City has,uh,
existing zoning designations that allow higher density or higher heights, or um, offers
other bon...bonuses for public benefits, um, it may delude the effectiveness of a transfer
of development rights program. Uh, the City currently offers many other bonuses for
public benefit, for affordable housing, for open space, um, and it's uncertain how a
citywide TDR policy would compare to those other bonuses that we're already providing.
So I'm gonna....I'm gonna go through all of the policy questions for City Council and
then turn it back over to the Mayor. Um, there are....there are five major questions. I
think the most major is probably whether or not the City Council wants us to move
forward with a....with a citywide ordinance. Assuming that's the case,these are the
questions that we need your input on. Um, should el...eligible sending sites include
existing local historic landmarks or only future local historic landmarks? So one option
is to allow, um, existing and future local historic landmarks as sending sites. This would
be a fair way to approach it and it's consistent with our Riverfront Crossings prov...
provisions. Another option is to only allow these, um, transfers to future parcels that are
landmarked. Um, with that option it may be easier to accommodate the transfer potential.
The next question is should a citywide TDR program apply the existing transfer
calculation formula that is outlined in the Riverfront Crossings district or a new formula?
(cell phone ringing) Excuse me! So if you remember the Riverfront Crossings formula
is basically the base height times the square footage of the site. So do we want to keep
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that existing formula? It is a more generous formula. It could provide more of an
incentive and is consistent with how things work now. Urn, another option is to provide a
new transfer formula,um, which it may be easier to accommodate transfers,but it could
be more complex and more difficult to administer. Urn, the third question is the City
already gives bonuses for certain public benefits provided, urn, with development
projects. Should preservation of historic resources be treated in a similar manner or
given higher priority? So one option is to model a program on our current bo...bonus
provisions, which might be simpler and easier to administer. Um,however bonuses from
multiple public benefits could dilute the effectiveness of a program. Another option is to
allow transfers that allow our current bonus provisions, which would provide more of an
incentive. Urn,there could be com....community concerns about additional height and
density though, and we haven't analyzed the impacts of that at this time yet either. Urn,
question four is what type of process should be established for the review and approval of
transfers? So we could keep the existing Rivercro...Riverfront Crossings formula or the
procedure, excuse me, where everything would be reviewed and approved by City
Council. That would be consistent (mumbled) how we do things now. Um....that might
not be as certain for developers. Another option is to establish a new proc....procedure,
where maybe some are approved administratively and then anything above that threshold
could be approved by the City Council. And lastly, what areas of the city do we want to
identify as receiving sites? Staff has proposed,uh, several—Riverfront Crossings,
downtown, south Johnson, south Van Buren, and then a citywide approach. Some
benefits of looking at Riverfront Crossings is that it's a current receiving area where we
anticipate, and the master plan identifies this area for higher density. Urn, downtown, it
is the core of the community, but as I mentioned before,there are significant historical
resources. South Johnson, south Van Buren, um, at the last meeting there seemed to be
some interest in this area. However, we may need to develop an urban design plan prior
to identifying it as a transfer, or receiving area, which could take some time. Um, lastly
the multi-unit sites throughout the city, um, this does provide the most capacity for
transfers. Um,but it could potentially be more impactful. So that's a summary of...of the
questions. Um, here's our timeline, um....our deadline for getting an ordinance adopted
is the end of January. So again we'd like your feedback on the questions.
Throgmorton/Before we start discussing this I'd like to thank, uh, Danielle and Ann for giving
us such an outstanding report and this....this oral presentation and PowerPoint
presentation's really....really clear and crisp. So thanks so much for doing that. We need
to focus on the threshold question first. So could you go to that?
Sitzman/They are all on one slide if that helps you(unable to hear, away from mic) (several
talking in background)
Throgmorton/Yeah so....is that on the threshold....no. I....we, it'd be helpful to have the
threshold question in front of us,that's what I was tryin' to get at.
Russett/(mumbled) ...this question?
Throgmorton/It was right....right at the start of, uh, this series of policy questions.
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Russett/Oh, okay.
Throgmorton/Well (both talking)
Mims/I'm not sure what you mean by threshold questions.
Throgmorton/Well I'm sorry, you....you said 'the threshold'....(several talking)the threshold is
do we want to pursue this approach. So I....that's what we need to focus on first, cause
everything else depends on how we answer that question. So what....do y'all have things
to say that you want to either want to ask questions about or respond to that threshold
question. (laughs) Sorry for that lousy sentence!
Cole/Yes, I....I would like to pursue....proceed forward with this. We know we already have
some significant interest,based upon what happened on,uh, on Clinton Street. So I think
one of the key issues facing historic preservation is this question of loss of value for the
landowner and I think this goes a long way to addressing that, so yes I would like to
support it.....moving forward.
Throgmorton/Yeah, I understand. All right, I'll give ya a counter-argument,just so that we can
be clear about what's at stake here. Uh,what you laid out before us strikes me as
tremendously complex with a lot of uncertainty, especially when you start talking about
where the receiving areas are and about transferring density to particular receiving areas
throughout the city. I think that's a huge can of worms, which could be manageable, but
(laughs) there's....as I look at it,there's a lot of uncertainty about that. Uh....you know,
just regard....with regard to adding density to any particular area, there's often opposition
from nearby property owners. So if we....say we're gonna transfer density to a....a set of
areas, I don't know exactly where.....we'd be getting into that and we'd have to
understand that there would be....there would be resistance un...especially if we had
some kind of Council review process, which is one of the questions that you ultimately
....ultimately ask. So anyhow I'm just drawin'....tryin' to draw attention to complexity
and uncertainty about this. Uh, one other point,has to do with the bonus provisions.
You laid out a series of bonus provisions that already exist in the Riverfront Crossings
district and the PRM zones and in,uh, the what? Central district?
Frain/CB zones.
Throgmorton/Uh, Central Biz....Business district zones. Yeah, and there's, um,overlap and
inconsistency there. So that.....I think that really would need to be clarified somehow.
I've talked enough about that. That's sort of my general reaction.
Thomas/Well I....I support going forward, you know, looking into the transfer of development
rights. I agree, Jim, there are complexities and challenges, uh, with that. Uh,but I do...I
do think the concept, at least in certain areas, is worth pursuing. Um, I'm....I'm not
confident it will work in the downtown because it's already zoned CB-10. So I don't....
my sense of, my understanding of the transfer of development rights is you....you're
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transferring to a condition which would benefit from the additional transfer and I'm not
sure that that makes sense in the downtown. Uh, so....so I'm looking at....at receiving
....receiving areas which are in need of that a....added density. I think the, um....you
know that area south of Johnson, uh (both talking)
Cole: ...subsequent discussion though, John?
Throgmorton/Yeah, let's not go deeply into that.
Mims/I'm willing to move forward with it(several talking)
Thomas/If we're just talking about moving forward....I think there are some bumps but we can
(both talking)
Throgmorton/Okay. Pauline? Maz?
Salih/Yeah, sound good to me. We can move forward on this.
Throgmorton/Okay.
Taylor/I agree too, if we are able to have time for(both talking)
Throgmorton/ Sony, so....may....maybe we can go....the, it seems like there's clear support for
movin' ahead. Uh, can we go into the details about the particular questions now? Like
why don't you restate the question and....well I'll do it. I can read as well as you can.
So, should eligible sending sites include existing local historic landmarks or only future
local historic landmarks?
Mims/I would say, and I know this is inconsistent with Riverfront Crossings,but I would say
only future local historic landmarks. Why do we, as a city, want to give, um...ones that
have already been landmarked and that cannot be destroyed basically under that landmark
provision, why do we now wanna turn around and give them a density bonus?
Throgmorton/ I agree. I think it makes no sense at all to provide density bonuses to existing
local landmarks.
Cole/Agreed. (several responding)
Thomas/Yeah that makes sense.
Throgmorton/Was there....there was a subtle variation on that, wasn't there? I'm tryin' to
remember the....the report you wrote. Well maybe not, so....
Mims/Well one thing I think is important with this, and....and this is not how it happened in
Riverfront Crossings, I believe with Tate Arms, is the idea that you can't get the bonus
until it's designated. I think there has to be something in this ordinance that allows that
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to be more of a simultaneous or a conditional thing. In other words, that the developer
agrees that if they get.....the transfer of development rights, it basically is done as....as a
local landmark, conditioned upon getting the transfer of development rights. Otherwise
what you're asking a developer to do is on good faith....get the local landmark
designation and then potentially have the Council say no, we're not going to do the TDR.
So....so to me it has to be more.....simultaneous.
Cole/Isn't that also a subsequent issue, in terms of Council versus administrative? Or am I....
Mims/Maybe. To me (both talking) it kind of comes on to the idea that these are...(both talking)
Cole/(several talking) (mumbled)
Mims/ ...it's future versus (both talking)
Throgmorton/Sounds like a good point to me, Susan. So, can we move to the....yeah,there we
go,number two. So, should a citywide TDR ordi....ordinance apply the existing transfer
calculation formula....I said I could read! (laughter) Should a citywide TDR ordinance
apply the existing transfer calculation formula, that is outlined in the Riverfront
Crossings district, or a new formula? Uh, I'm inclined to think a new formula. That's
my quick gut reaction. Maybe you wanna explain why(both talking)
Mims/Well my.....I think the memo did a good job of saying that the formula for Riverfront
Crossings was, uh....exceptionally generous. At least said `generous,' maybe not
exceptionally generous,but was generous with the idea that there was going to be a lot of
demand for redevelopment down there and we wanted to have any historic, urn,
structures hopefully preserved, and so by giving a very generous bonus, we were more
likely to get those preserved. When I look at this going forward, um, and because of how
generous that is, the idea that came to my mind was instead of taking the entire lot, take
the square footage that is buildable upon the lot that has the historic structure, um, and the
number of stories, and use that as a multiplier, not the square footage of the entire lot, but
just what is actually buildable, and then....then what you're looking at is you're saying,
okay, because you're not going to build it on this lot, we're gonna let you take that same
square footage and move it to a different lot. We're not gonna give you more square
footage than you can build, than you could already build on this lot. So that was kind of
a preliminary idea that I had. Oh, also minus the square footage that already exists on the
lot.
Throgmorton/Do the rest of you have anything to say about this?
Cole/My....my preference is the existing formula for Riverfront Crossings. I know it is more
generous,urn,but I think predictability, consistency, and simplicity are also virtues as
well, and I think we're more likely to have that with the existing framework. So that's
what I would support. And in terms of if a new formula is supported by four or more, uh,
Councilors, I would want to defer that particular issue in terms of how that would work.
It's sort of hard to speak off the cuff on that.
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Throgmorton/John? Pauline? Maz?
Thomas/ I lean a little bit toward the new formula, uh....but yeah, it's (laughs) pretty difficult
given the time constraint here to really....think this through.
Throgmorton/Well we'll have to revisit this at some point in the future, uh,but giving the staff
an indication of what our, uh, thinking is is very helpful.
Taylor/I would agree cause we need to look at it and see if it's going to provide an adequate
amount then...as an incentive.
Salih/Yes.
Throgmorton/You okay with that? All right. Three. The City already gives bonuses for certain
public benefits provided with development projects. Should preservation of historic
resources be treated in a similar manner or given higher priority? I think this is a really
tough question (laughs) and I don't know the answer to it,but I do know, like I said when
I first, uh, introduced...or started our discussion, uh,there are multiple....actions that
warrant bonuses, uh, in the three different areas as they currently exist, and there could
possibly a dif...be a different one here. So that complexity is, uh....um, kind of
confounds the....the difficulty of what to do here, but I....I, in terms of deciding what
really has priority, whether the historic preservation has priority over any one of these
other things? (several talking in background) That....that's a tough nut to crack!
Salih/Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ So....
Mims/And I'm not sure how you codify it. That....as I read it, that's what I was trying to think
of is okay, if we're looking at how we're going to write a code.
Thomas/Add more density would be one example....which.....which straight away I would have
concerns with, uh, cause I think(both talking)
Mims/Okay, so you're saying you'd give that higher priority by giving more density (both
talking) Okay.
Cole/And I think it should be equal priority, and again I think it's simpler and easier to
administer and I think it....the staff identifies option A, um, that would be my preference.
Mims/That's kinda what I was thinking is....(several talking)
Taylor/ I agree. Easier to understand.
Throgmorton/I'm not sure what you mean by give it equal weight or whatever (both talking)
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Cole/Well I mean isn't that the precise question posed, I mean shouldn't....preservation of
historic resources be treated in a similar manner or given a higher priority. So I think it
should be in a similar manner to other sort of, uh....uh, positive, uh, items that we would
like to promote. So no greater or no less, in a similar manner, I think that's the question
posed.
Salih/Yeah, I agree (unable to understand) similar manner.
Thomas/My short answer is, you know, I don't think it should be given any higher priority, but I
would add quickly that what it brought to my mind is there are an awful lot of benefits
listed here. Could we look at other ways, whether it's land use regulations or our taxing
policy to try to address them?
Throgmorton/Yeah, I....yeah. It's a matter of value. What do we value? And if we say that....
uh, preserving an historic, um, resource....is of equal weight to.....providing class A
office space or masonry on buildings or....affordable housing or any one of the, I don't
know, 15 or 20 other items that are listed in that....in the report. Then what do we value?
We're sayin' we don't....not being clear about what we value. So I think this, my
personal view, is this needs to be visited more thoroughly.
Salih/Uh huh.
Thomas/Yeah.
Salih/Yes.
Cole/ So neither similar weight or greater weight?
Throgmorton/At this moment, yeah. Unless...I mean may....I don't know if that really kind of
ruins what the staff needs to do. Geoff, you're kinda grimacing, I don't know(laughs)
Fruit)/(laughs) (several talking)
Mims/Or even...or even maybe to give us ideas of....of how you might write a code, of...it were
to be similar weight versus if it were to be a higher priority, what....how do, how
would....you see that maybe working? That might help us in our discussion of it.
Russett/I was just going to say that it kind of goes back to the previous question, on the transfer
calculation. Um,because the Riverfront Crossings current formula is so generous. Um,
if we move forward with that existing formula, it might be providing a little bit higher
weight to historic preservation. Urn, if we come up with a new formula that is maybe
more in line with some of the other,uh,bonus provisions, urn, it might be more even
across the board.
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Throgmorton/Yeah. My personal view is that we need to think about this in terms of what our
Council priorities are. And try to figure out....uh, what,uh....what deserves the...the
greatest bonuses. If there's a variation, if it's equal weight or if it's variation among
particular actions, and I don't see how we can do that tonight.
Salih/Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ So, can we go on to the next item? Uh, number four, what types....what type of
process should be established for the review and approval of sending and receiving
transfer of development rights?
Mims/You know, in Riverfront Crossings...isn't some of it, can be approved administratively
and then some of it is Council?
Russett/Not for the transfers.
Mims/Not for transfers (both talking)
Russett/ ...it all has to go to Council.
Mims/Okay. Thank you.
Thomas/Well here too I think I would lean toward a new procedure. I mean I...I in general do
support....streamlining processes. If it's something that is a priority, and if, uh, insofar as
that would help....the program to be successful, um....so that...that would be my initial
response.
Mims/Boy I'm really worried about that because I....I think the code's gonna have to be written
really,really carefully because I think the minute you start transferring some of these into
some of these multi-family areas where....meaning larger multi-family buildings in
residential neighborhoods, urn.....we already hear concerns about that, so....on the one
hand I like that cause I like the simplicity of it. I like the predictability, for developers,
but.....I'm also really concerned.
Thomas/Well that's the longer answer. I would certainly not support....even considering multi-
family without stronger design standards or how we would accomplish that.
Cole/I....I like keeping it subject to review by Council, realizing full well that that may slow
down the development process, that may make it I guess somewhat less predictable,but
even though it's more efficient administratively, I think ultimately this is a political
question, you know, in terms of where this development goes to, and as to predicting sort
of what Council will do, I think any time you have a new Council body....the community
does adapt in terms of there's a sufficient degree of predictability that I'm not...I'm not
concerned about that. So I'd like it subject to Council review.
Salih/(mumbled) I like it to be like streamlined review and approved by the Council.
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Throgmorton/So keep the existing Riverfront Crossings (both talking)
Salih/Not Riverfront....no, no, no, I don't mean that. It's either or, right? For the....
Throgmorton/Yeah, either option(both talking)
Salih/ ...second option. No, new one. Everything come to the Council before(mumbled)
Mims/Then that's not the streamline. The streamline is more of an administrative review, not
Council.
Salih/That what I mean really. Yeah.
Taylor/I like the review by the Council, although Rockne touched on something. As we all
know the face of the Council changes, depending on the elections and who's seated here,
so their opinions on some of these things may change and it might differ and then the
developers may not really know where we're coming from or what we're thinking about.
So that'd be the only con part but I....I prefer keeping it with the Council.
Cole/But keep in mind, I mean I know it's a separate project, but how this arose in that project
last May, at least had we had something in place at that point....I think....and we had a
transfer of development process, I think the...probably there would have been a great
degree of certainty for that particular developer, is sort of my thought. So, um, we just
didn't have the administrative tool to be able to do it, or the....and that's why we're in
this particular process. So I think it's a good concern, but I look at, at least that most
recent example, urn, I think....probably pretty sure that we would approve that.
Throgmorton/(mumbled) I'm a little unclear about who favors what. So how many, show me
your hand if you support option A. Three, I count three.
Russett/ Option A is review by Council.
Throgmorton/Right. And option....how many of you support option B? Uncertainty, huh?
(laughter)
Mims/Here's....I mean here's....here's also where I sit at on this too. We have a January
deadline with this thing, okay? I think to write code that we can be comfortable with that
would allow administrative review is gonna take us longer....than being able to get this
done by January. So what I would suggest is if we could, that we agree at this point in
time, that we go with Council review,because I think that makes code easier to write.
Does that make sense?
Throgmorton/I'm on board with that, Susan.
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Mims/Geoff is nodding yes. And then maybe we can get this deadline met, if this is something
we really want to move forward with. And then maybe we come back later and say,
okay, what we really would ultimately like to do is get it to an administrative review, but
we need more time to do that,but this would allow us,potentially, to get it done by
January.
Throgmorton/ Sounds reasonable to me. Uh,how many people support that idea? (several
responding) So we're gonna do that. Number five, what areas should a citywide TDR
ordinance identify as receiving sites? Two options....no, there are....there's more than
two, right? So one is River....the Riverfront Crossings area. Is this and/or? Yeah, so
any...any combination, right? Downtown. The south Johnson, Van Buren area, and/or
multi-unit sites throughout the city and/or....other sites or areas. So I don't think tra...
transferring density to the downtown makes any sense. Put that out there. Uh, for
reasons I think you describe in the report. I, as you know, support, uh, the idea of; uh,
workin',tryin' to figure out a way to enhance the quality of the south Johnson, south Van
Buren area by transferring some density into there, if it's really well designed,that's why
I brought up this, uh,urban design plan idea. I know that that would take time to develop
and property owners would have to be involved. So that's pretty complicated. Uh, so
what do the rest of y'all think?
Cole/I agree, Jim. I'm just wondering mechanically, in terms of the downtown, they already
have unlimited ability to build height-wise, so I mean how would they....the whole part
about transfer development is you're allowing them to do something they otherwise
wouldn't ordinarily do. So how....how would that work, Geoff, if....if we did do, I
mean, if we did do that downtown?
Russett/I....I think your point is well taken.
Cole/ Okay.
Russett/You know right now in the CB-10 zone, you can get up to a 15 FAR through a bonus
that's approved administratively. So our existing provisions are pretty,um, generous.
Cole/ ...already. Okay. But I would agree with Jim on that.
Mims/(mumbled) I guess I would suggest, you know, again maybe for simplicity and...and
timeframe that we maybe start with Riverfront Crossings, um, and the multi-unit sites
throughout the city. I'm....I'm (both talking)
Throgmorton/I understand(both talking)
Mims/ ....concemed about the multi-unit sites, as I said earlier, but again if we've got Council
review,um....
Throgmorton/ So if we do that, we....we need to remember that there....there are already
multiple opportunities to increase the density in the Riverfront Crossings district, you
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know, by...just by rezoning, to start off with, and through the height bonus provisions.
So....we'd be adding to that, and I....I don't think that's very wise, given what's already
provided in....in the Riverfront Cross....or the form based code for the Riverfront
Crossings district. Which kind of leaves the multi-unit sites throughout the city, and
that's where we get into what I worry about in terms of feedback from neighbors. So...
Cole/Jim,but I....I would respond to that that we....we would be giving ourselves Council
review....
Throgmorton/Yep!
Cole/And I think if, presumably if we did the transfer, we'd have some degree of specificity in
terms of where they would be going, what they'd be proposing, so if they were out of line
with what those expectations were for Riverfront Crossings, we could always say no, um,
is my understanding of how it works. So I....I would support the A and D, um.....and I
guess defer on south Johnson, south Van Buren Streets, um, at this point. I....I think
that's an area that's already pretty dense. Um, and we just need to see more detail on
that.
Mims/It's dense, but it also has a lot of potential, I think, with a total redevelopment because
most of those are not very tall buildings and so....I think with Jim's point of getting, um,
a good plan for down there and if the incentives were enough....
Cole/Yeah.
Mims/ ....you could get a lot of those buildings potentially....torn down and rebuilt with much
higher quality and higher density and we could demand more amenities and that sort of
thing. There's that potential down the road.
Thomas/Yeah I think, urn, Riverfront Crossings and multi-family in the short term seem to be,
urn,most viable, but I....I, you know,the south Johnson area in my mind is it's already
zoned re....redevelopment, is what I would almost call blighted, so it is....in terms of that
aspect, you know, I think it's a critical site but I, you know, our timing is....is limited.
The other I would add is, um, maybe, again, under long term would be under-performing
commercial zones, um, shopping malls that I think, urn....also....it seems more and more
likely they need to be reimagined. Uh....
Throgmorton/Yeah,that sounds like a pretty good suggestion to me. It's worth lookin' into.
Uh.....how....how many of you are....I'm not in favor of Riverfront Crossings for the
reasons I just articulated. How many of you are? Okay, so there's a majority of the
Council in favor of that. Uh...how many of you are in favor of the multi-unit sites
throughout the city? I think I am too, and I guess I'd add one caveat to that. I think it'd
be really important to....make this a clearly transparent process.
Salih/Uh huh.
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Throgmorton/ Once we get into it, so that people aren't shocked to discover that some density
might be coming, you know, nearby. Okay, uh is there anything else we need to deal
with on that? (several talking in background) Well south Johnson,uh, is there support
for...somewhat in the longer term, uh, tryin' to, uh, reimagine the south Johnson (several
talking in background)
Mims/In the longer term, yes.
Cole/ ...longer term (several talking)that's gonna be complicated.
Mims/Yeah.
Throgmorton/Okay! Uh.....well we took 15 more minutes than I'd hoped, uh, but y'all did
great. Thanks so much. Thanks to our Council for workin' our way through that.
(several talking) All right! Our next item is....to review the Emerald Ash Borer response
strategy, and Juli Seydell-Johnson and Zac Hall have prepared a report for us. Thanks so
much for doing that. It's a very informative report. Juli, thanks, uh, Zac, I see you're
sittin' there too, uh, so, yeah, let's get into it!
Review Emerald Ash Borer Response Strategy (IP4):
Seydell-Johnson/All right! I'm gonna take you through this very quickly. Juli Seydell-Johnson,
Parks and Rec Director,but I have all kinds of experts up here with me. I have Zachary
Hall, our Park Superintendent. Next to him Mike Kinter, who is with the IDAL's
Entomologists, so he is the State EAB expert, and (unable to hear) is right there, one of
our district foresters for the DNR. So, someone in here can answer your questions when
we get done. Let me get through the presentation first of all. So we're here tonight for
an update on Emerald Ash Borer and here it is! Um, live and in person,um, taken two
weeks ago when we were called out to look at a tree. You see the address right there.
That's what it is, a little green, um, a little green beetle and it's the eggs that it lays and
the larvae, as they grow, they burrow underneath the tree's bark and that basically cuts
off the tree's, um, nutrients. So it dies from the inside out. It's very difficult lots of times
to see if the tree has Emerald Ash Borer or not. We do have some examples though,um,
take....all these pictures taken within the last two weeks. This is the tree that just had the
beetles in it. You can see how this was taken in mid-August, and it's thinning out all
over. This one shows, you see it looks at the bottom like there's some healthy growth.
Well that's actually part of the regrowth after it starts to die and that's not a sign of health
in this case. Problem here, obviously, look how it's sifting with the transformer right
around it, uh, lots of these are big and....and somewhat difficult. Here's another one you
can see on the right side, you can see how the crown is thinning out. Some of it still
looks healthy,but a good portion of this tree is already dead. You can see on the left
side, it in comparison to what other healthy frees around it look like at this time of year.
Church Street again, same thing. You see the one on the, it's the same tree from two
different directions. Um, this one we got called out to, uh, do a tree trim...or pruning, and
didn't realize it had Emerald Ash Borer until we went out to prune it because the
homeowner told us that that branch was hanging over the street. Get out there, took the
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branch down, and guess what? That's...it had Emerald Ash Borer in it. Uh....here it is at
600 Market Street, looking up at the trees from down below. Once again all those empty
branches are signs. So...here's the thing, it's here. Urn, but we wanna make, or I wanna
make sure that we dispel some of the information or some of the untruths that are out
there about this. First of all, um, we've been hearing from the public `don't cut down all
our ash trees.' That has never been our goal, and we don't have a plan to cut down all
ash trees at any one time. That was an earlier strategy from a lot of cities when Emerald
Ash Borer was first discovered. That has never been our strategy here. We take the trees
out as they decline in health to a point where they become a public safety hazard, and I'll
talk more about that as we go through. Um, secondly,people say it's the easy way out.
That's why staff wants to cut the trees down. I just gotta say, I've got a lot of our
Forestry staff back here and if there's a staff that's first of all well educated and well
qualified in what they do,but also that just loves trees, we get it....we get it in certain
neighborhoods this is a big impact. Uh,we hate to take down any tree, ever, and having
to know that we're going to take down a lot of them is difficult for us too. Um, it's
important to note that there's two different answers to the questions. Are we....are we
taking down all the ash trees? No, but if you ask me do I think we're going to lose most
of our ash trees? The answer is yes, probably over the next 10 years. Ten or 15 years.
We're gonna lose a great portion of them. Um....one more picture that shows how the
tree canopy is starting to fail up above. Why is that a problem? Well...(mumbled) see all
the trees that came down last week with our 80-mile-an-hour winds, this is a real hazard
throughout the city in a lot of locations. That's part of why we have to take trees down
when they get to this point. How did we get to Emerald Ash Borer as it is? Really a
lesson not learned, through Dutch Elm disease. Cities planted lots of elm trees. Dutch
Elm came through, killed most of them. Um....so the....the new magic tree (laughs)to
replace all of them was the ash tree. So that's why you see entire neighborhoods planted
in ash trees. They were symmetrical. It makes a really pretty, look down the...the street
—we get it! That's why they were all done, but lesson not learned and...and really that
becomes the....the gist of what our recommendation is, is to make sure we have a very
diversified tree coverage throughout the city, so that we don't have to deal with this in
such a huge, um, impact in the future. So where are the ash trees? I'm going to show
you the next slide and it's going to look like a lot of trees, but hang on there's more to the
story. Here's from our tree inventory, here's where the significant ash trees are
distributed in Iowa City. So you can see, they are actually all over the city, some
neighborhoods more than others. Um, significant in that it is larger than.....(unable to
hear; several talking away from mic) Yeah, so larger than one-inch in diameter. Urn,
when we talk later about ones that are possibly treatable, urn, we don't even.....we don't
treat even those small ones though because we feel like those can be replaced fairly
quickly, but here's where they're at. But if there's something to the story that I want to
make sure everyone realizes, here's the percentages of trees right now, of different types
of trees in our tree canopy. So ash tree is not the most prevalent tree out there. In fact
it's tied with like five different species for the second most prevalent. Maple is by far, so
the other thing we're hearing a lot lately is,man, those foresters don't want us to plant
maple trees. This is why. We don't want any....too much of any one type of tree out
there. Um,this is the basis for staff's recommendation not to spend a lot of money
chemically treating the ash tree. Of those top three or four species up there, each one of
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them has some kind of disease or risk factor coming at them, either right now or coming
soon. If we decide to treat one type of tree, do you want us to do that for all, cause each
one of these infestations or tree diseases comes with their own options for treatment.
Um, we really feel like the better way to do it is to diversify the overall tree canopy. So
as you lose some, um, you don't lose them all on any one street. Here's a timeline of
Emerald Ash Borer and how it's affected Iowa City. So it was discovered in the United
States in 2002. In 2004, our City Forestry staff, a couple of them sitting back there,
identified it and stopped planting ash trees in the City of Iowa City in 2004 on public
lands. That's a really early response. So when people say we didn't know this was
coming, we've been responding for a long time. Um, 2010 first time in Iowa. 2014 the
first beetle identified in Iowa....in Iowa City. We weren't actually put on the list of
infected counties at that time. That didn't happen until 2016, but notice the bars over to
the right. That is our, the orange is our tree removals and the green is our tree plantings.
Now there's a lot of rumors out there that we have an EAB tree removal contract(laughs)
We do have a tree removal contract to take out diseased and declining trees, but as you'll
see, in 2015 we took out 223 trees with that...with that contract, but only 34 of them were
ash trees. The same thing the next year, 177 trees taken out, 41 were ash. Last year, 297
trees taken out, 107 were ash trees. So ash trees are not the only thing and not even the
most prevalent thing that we've had to take out in recent years. It is climbing. We are
finding more and more trees to be infected and declining for the ash trees, so it will
change in the coming years. But it certainly shows that we haven't been out there just
cutting down ash trees. Um,the green number is the number of replanting, and we're
getting to more than a two to one ratio of for every free we take out, we replant, so if we
take out a tree and it's someone....in front of someone's house, we give them some
options of what tree we can replant and we come back and replant, and we'll....we'll give
you a few more details on that in a minute. Um, but it's really interesting that we have
been....we've been actually at this longer than most cities in Iowa, and it....we maybe
just(mumbled) good job of communicating that with the public, urn,but we really have
been trying to respond as it's come on board. Um, we're next going to go through an
EAB 101 and I'm going to turn this over to Mike Kinter from IDAL's to....to walk ya
through the Emerald Ash Borer itself and we're gonna start with....what does an ash tree
look like, cause believe it or not this is the number one question we actually get right now
(laughs)
Throgmorton/(both talking) Thanks for comin'!
Kinter/Again my name is Mike Kinter with the Iowa Department of Agriculture Land
Stewardship and we saw some ugly pictures of ash trees there. Um, this particular one is
a nice looking ash tree, one that hasn't probably been attacked yet by Emerald Ash Borer.
But as she said, uh....our office gets a lot of calls and sounds like they do too, um, what
is an ash tree? What is this beetle attacking? Um, and it really comes down to ash trees.
Um, we're not talking about maples or oaks. Want to be real clear with that. Um, I was
asked to talk about this slide here, you know, to maybe help identify an ash tree. One of
the things you're going to be looking at is they have a compound leaf, so the picture up
there on the top right, you can see that's actually one leaf with seven leaflets. Another
thing, uh, it's hard to tell from that picture there of the tree but they have opposite branch
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patterns. Uh, a lot of trees out there have alternate branch patterns. So if you were to
look at a tree, if it has opposite branches, and a compound leaf and then that kind of
diamond shaped arch, more than likely if you're livin' in Iowa it's going to be an ash
tree. So hopefully that helps with identification. Okay, so the beetle itself is, uh, it's a
wood boring beetle, urn, it's....it's quite small, only about a half an inch in length. Uh, it
is native to Asia, like we saw on the previous slides there, urn, and then again it's gonna
attack true ash trees. So here in Iowa we're primarily lookin' at white ash and green ash
trees. Urn, it does attack large and small trees, all the way down to half an inch diameter
trees, all the way up to your fully largest mature trees. So we get questions about that—
will it attack little trees too? Yes it will. Um, and another important key factor is it
attacks nearly all ash trees. So it's not a hit and miss, uh, cross your fingers I hope it's
gonna miss my tree. Urn, it's gonna nearly attack 100%of all ash trees in infested
areas....at some point. The adult beetle does fly short distances. Uh, luckily only half...
are about a mile or less a year, uh, but the downside is that the reason it's moving so
quickly is humans. People are movin' around and things such as infested firewood and
ash logs. So the adult beetle is gonna be out and about, flying from about May to August.
You saw the picture, uh, was recently emerging from a tree. Uh, the female does lay
eggs. Unfortunately she (mumbled) uh, lays quite a few eggs, anywhere from about 70
eggs on average and those are laid in the bark crevices of the tree,urn,usually something
that's undetected, not something that you're going out and looking for. They're quite,
quite small. The larvae stage is....of the insect is really what's doin' the damage to the
tree. Um, it's below the (mumbled) below the bark, kind of out of sight, um, and once
those eggs hatch they start off as a very, very, very small larvae, chew their way through
the bark, and then as they grow,right under the bark layer,they start to create those
channels, those galleries we refer them to, and that is really what's doing the damage to
the tree. Um, you see the bottom left hand picture, that was created,that gallery was
created by one larvae and then arrow to the right, uh, you can imagine as the population
starts to build up and more and more larvae in a tree it really has a detrimental effect on
the tree. Urn, and it essentially(mumbled) the tree, and the water/nutrient movement up
and down the tree is restricted,urn, and the picture there on the right again is just another
picture of a declining ash tree that's under attack by Emerald Ash Borer. This is a good
visual slide, what it can do to a community. Um, nice residential street and the thing
kinda to catch here is the timeframe. You know, in a short period of time from 2006
(mumbled) this is Toledo, Ohio, but in 2006 to 2009 it went from a full canopy street
basically to, uh, a barren dormant looking street. So, uh....it can really move in and, uh,
have a huge impact on aesthetics. This gives you an idea, Emerald Ash Borer, urn,we
see about it, hear about it in the news a lot, and people,you know,might...we....we hear
about it all the time,but is it really having that big of an impact? Just give it some time
and it will. Um,this is a chart here that was created,uh, from Dr. Dan Herms at Ohio
State University and Davey Tree Experts, and you can see the percent of mortality of ash
trees as time progresses, after that first finding. Keep in mind the first year of detection
of Emerald Ash Borer usually we are not able to find, even the second year or third year
sometimes we're not able to find. Again, these larvae are in low concentrations
underneath the bark in the beginning and once we start seein' those external signs and
symptoms, usually we're three, four years already into an infestation. So the take-home
message here is that it's kind of an exponential growth of trees dying as we progress, um,
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and really at about half a dozen years in to about a dozen years in you can really see it to
ramp up that,the....the tree death. Urn,just little history here, urn, it was found in
Detroit, Michigan area in 2002 and you can kind of see the progression has spread
through the years, uh, already by 2005 it had spread into, uh, Indiana and Ohio. All those
red dots, urn, is a positive detection. Uh, 2009 you can see it spreading out even further,
satellite population, so it's not necessarily spreading like a wave. Urn, and again, that's
largely in part due to people moving around—infested firewood, campers, trailers, trains,
whatever it be; urn, in those satellite populations they're starting to grow and then they
coalesce. 2014 and then 2018, um, and it, uh, it's over....in over 30 states at this time.
As far as Iowa goes, we first found it here in our state in 2010. Urn, it stayed luckily,uh,
up in the county there in the northeast part of the state, Allamakee County, for the first
two years and then we just started detecting it in other counties in 2013, 2014, urn, and
then there's all the way to last year, 2017. So all the counties that are designated in red
there have at least one or more Emerald Ash Borer confirmation in that county. You can
see by looking at this map, urn, again from the timeline that Juli shared, um, Emerald Ash
Borer was found in Johnson County,uh,more specifically Iowa City, in 2016, and urn,
this year alone we've already had 11 confirmed positive counties, urn, and that number
will probably grow by the end of the year. This is a site that was first found in Johnson
County,um, Iowa City on the University of Iowa campus, uh, February, 2016. Urn,
campus folks contacted me, Andy here, and uh, went out to....to look at the trees and
they did a great job, had a great help, and um,unlike some situations, we actually found
this tree somewhat earlier on, urn, cause we had to drop branches to get what we needed
to. Sometimes when I show up at a site, the infestation has progressed quite low on the
ground where I can actually walk up to the tree and find the galleries underneath the bark.
We had to go up higher in the tree to find what we were looking for. So, um, that's one
sign that it was found a little bit earlier on. Again, you can see the picture on the bottom
right hand, there's those galleries again from a dropped branch, uh, from one of the trees
that are at Gibson Square. So my final thoughts on my portion here, uh....the unfortunate
thing about Emerald Ash Borer, again, it spends most of its life underneath the bark.
We're not seein' it, we're not noticing it, so distribution is always greater and larger than
what we're anticipating. We here at the Iowa EAB team,urn, designate really any ash
tree within 15 miles of a known infestation to be at risk, at a higher risk, of bein' attacked
by Emerald Ash Borer. Urn, can't stress enough to be proactive,not reactive, especially
when it comes to safety. Um, dying and declining ash trees are....are,they behave
differently than a lot of other trees out there. They're very brittle, uh, you saw some of
the pictures. I think there's more pictures to come. Falling ash trees, urn, and also, uh,
arborists need to be careful and tree climbers of; uh (mumbled) dead and declining ash
trees because, again, they're very brittle and when you cut 'em down, they, uh....they can
really, you know, cause damage to either people or property. Thank you.
Throgmorton/Thank you, Mike.
Seydell-Johnson/I'm gonna have you hold your questions till we get through all of this. Just one
second here......okay. So I'm gonna take a few minutes to talk about why we remove
trees and what our process is here in Iowa City, to give people a better understanding
of...of....00ps! Yeah....why the trees are coming out. So first of all we don't really want
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to take down any trees that we don't have to. So the number one reason trees are taken
down is that we feel that they're a public safety hazard. Urn, they become, uh, a
condition, they either have hangers over a trail. You see the one on the right. That's a
picture from Chicago, but we do see that throughout our park system. We want trails and
roads to be safe. Urn, if the tree is in declining condition due to disease or infestation we
take it out, no matter if it's been treated, no matter what, if it's become a safety hazard it
has to come out. Um, there's a lot of trees, because of storm damage. Last week's
winds, we had over a hundred calls on trees, uh, when we had the 80-mile-an-hour winds
that night, as you can imagine, and then we do take out a certain number of trees for
public improvement projects, urn, street projects, park projects sometimes mean taking
out a tree, and that is one instance where if we have to choose between two trees and we
try to move things around so we don't impact trees, but ash trees kinda score more points,
we tend to take those out more than other trees within the parks or....or streets if we have
to make a choice between two, but that's really the only time we would take out an ash
tree that isn't showing signs of decline, is to make way for some project. Okay, let's talk
stone damage. I'm going to have Zac actually talk you through the next couple slides.
Hall/Thank you. So this is a, uh, not....this is not an ash tree. This is actually a walnut tree, a
black walnut tree on south Lucas Street. So this tree, uh, did come down in the storm last
week and this was the main culprit for the power outage, uh, that folks experienced. So
you can see, um, obviously it did some damage to this vehicle, took out the power pole.
Uh, one thing that you....doesn't really show up in the picture, uh, is across the street it
impacted actually a green ash tree, uh, private ash tree, uprooted it, uh, somewhat and
basically made it, uh, not structurally sound. When the arborist was removing this tree
and then removing the other tree, they found Emerald Ash Borer in the....in the private
green ash tree, and it was a completely healthy looking tree. Um, the thing to...uh, think
about here is, uh, like Juli said, you know, with storm damage, um, these trees can
definitely get compromised, urn, either if,uh, you know, the root systems are impacted
one way or the other or if they're infested. Uh, this.....this photo is from 316 N. Dodge
Street. This is actually, uh, a tree again that sustained, uh, some damage in last week's
storm. Uh, this is one that staff noticed when they were out on their 100-plus calls and,
uh, they went to just go clean up the branch and in doing so, our protocol is any....any
ash tree that we work on, we bark peel it, we inspect it....to see if it's infested, and
indeed, uh, this tree is infested, and I have a sample of it here if you want to look at it.
And this is a perfectly looking,uh,healthy ash tree. This was not one on our inventory
that had any conditions other than fair or good,um, showing no signs of infestation
whatsoever. This is 729 Market Street. Um...this is a good example of....of,you know, a
street tree that....that has some issues either from some mechanical damage in the past,
uh, either a mower or a vehicle or some kind of piece of equipment, uh, damaged that
tree. Urn, you can see in the background there's a driveway,there's a street, and there's a
sidewalk. That tree has some compromised structural integrity at the root system. Um,
these are the things that we look for as far as judging what makes a....a....a good tree a
good tree,um, or....or one that, you know, should get removed. This is one that's on our
current contract because it also is showing signs of infestation.
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Seydell-Johnson/All right, so back to what our focus has been on overall tree canopy and it has
been on planting and diversity, um, this shows again the number of tree removals versus
tree plantings. Also want to bring out again that EAB isn't the only tree villain out there
right now. These are other things that are affecting our trees now and will be soon. Uh,
the gypsy moth, Asian long-horn beetle,burr oak blight, oak wilt. So other than ash
trees, we have these other things headed our way. Our Forestry staff is just as concerned
about these, um, as Emerald Ash Borer. But let's talk specifically about Emerald Ash
Borer, since that's what we had specific questions about. Um,walk you through some of
the management options, and there are lots of options, and we wanna make it clear that
whatever you'd like to do,we'll do. Um, we want to, you know, give you our
recommendation,but in the end, obviously, if you want us to treat more or treat less, we
will. The management options on the left, it used to be that you got....you identified
Emera...Emerald Ash Borer in one tree and you clear-cut all the ash trees in the area.
That's a very....from very early on in the 2000s they did that. There're not many
communities that are doing that anymore and that has never been the case here or the plan
here. Um, the middle option, the remove as they deteriorate, is what we've been doing.
Um, we remove and then we replant in similar or close location nearby, with a different
species of tree. That not only gives us diversity of species, it gives us diversity of age of
trees along those streets. So I've heard, you know, there are a lot of people concerned
we're gonna lose the ash trees, it's gonna take, you know, 50, 100 years to grow back.
True, but you know what, back in 2002 we started planting....or 2004 we started planting
other trees to get ready for this. So we already have some that are 12, 15 years old. So it
won't be forever, and then there is the option for chemically treating ash trees. There's
also chemical treatment options available for these other types of trees. We estimate, and
I'll...we'll go through all the data from the tree inventory, or some of it, in a little bit, but
to treat the...the trees that are good, um, candidates for treatment in all of our street trees
and parks is about....we estimate about$50,000 a year, and that's just a really rough
estimate, and that would (mumbled)be needed to be repeated every two to three years.
Urn....we looked into research, we've gotten some from Johnson, from the Mayor. We
looked at, um, studies from Michigan State and there's a lot of information growing out
there about chemical treatment. Um, as a staff we still don't recommend it as a wholesale
option for the entire city. I think it's a good option for some, you know, if people wanna
do it to their own trees, I don't have a problem with that. Urn,but we have some
concerns about doing it, um, on a large scale, and that is as we talk about use of City
resources,we really are going towards a diversification so the...the remove and replant
with a broad spectrum of trees. Um, we're worried about some of the environmental
impact on pollinators and other species. It's been studied and there's more studies
coming out every day. So what I tell you tonight could change tomorrow, um, but I'm
just not sure there's quite enough out there. Urn, it's a commitment, it's a long-term
treatment plant....plan(laughs) sorry! Of all the cities that are using it,they've all....
we've talked with them and they see it as a stop-gap measure. So they're going to treat
these to hold off so that they can spread out the removal of ash trees, and I get that,urn,
but just remember that's only about 8 or 9% of our tree population and we have other...
other things to worry about too. Um, once you stop treating an ash tree, um, it becomes
susceptible again for the EAB. It used to be we thought that it would pass through, you'd
hold off until it passes through. Well we even talked about,there's been Dutch Elm
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disease found here in the last year. So that's a disease that was here 30 years ago and it's
still active. So we think that Emerald Ash Borer will be similar. Urn, what do we do
when we...when we take out a tree from the street tree,just so you know. Our Forestry
staff(laughs) takes this very, very seriously. Rae Lyn's back here, she's the one who
tries to contact all the homeowners before we take out the tree. The one exception would
be if it's fallen over on a car or it's causing a power outage or there's an emergency, but
we try to meet them in person. We make a phone call or we send a letter. We do....we
take lots of steps to make sure that people know their tree's coming out. Just a note,
some people get confused about the trees that we work on versus what the utility
companies come in and do, and they have their own separate notification process for trees
in utility right-of-ways and they do their tree removals and everything a little bit
differently than us. We take a lot of care to make sure the neighbor knows and that they
have an option to help pick out what tree they'd like to have replaced there. It doesn't
happen immediately. Sometimes it takes six months to a year to get back, or to get
the....the stump ground out and get the new tree, but we do go back with a replacement
tree. Um, and it's also important to note that we notify the property owner and we ask
the property owner to notify any renters in the units. So sometimes I think maybe some
of that is the confusion. The renter may not get the message from us. They should be
getting it from their landlord. We don't know that that always happens. Um,briefly,
here's some examples of what other cities are doing. There is a whole range of treat
versus not treat, and it's changing every day. Minneapolis was one of the first ones
where EAB was discovered, so of course they clear-cut their trees, but you can see in the
other cities, that there are a number of different options and different strategies
happening. We know that our neighbors, Cedar Rapids is treating some. Coralville is
treating some. But like I said,both of them have said they see it as a measure to hold off
having to replace those trees, but they think they're going to have to replace them
eventually,um, at some point anyway. Urn, we are also asked to look at Grand Rapids,
Michigan, and their, urn, what they do, and so I'll have Zac talk about that.
Hall/Yeah, so Grand Rapids,um....uh, discovered EAB in 2007. Um, they did a windshield
inventory,uh, of their ash trees and at that time,uh, in 2008 they had 8,000 ash trees and
they....they first started to, uh, trunk inject, uh, ash trees,uh,with Tree-age, which is
the....the commercial name, or Emamectin Benzoate, urn, which is the preferred method,
and at that time they were treating about, uh, 3,000 trees total, so alternating years, uh,
keep that in mind, and so fast forward to 2016, they completed their inventory,urn, they
had 86,000 trees total, uh, 6,000 ash trees in that eight-year time period were removed
due to an EAB infestation. Even as they were treating. Urn, and so, uh, essentially they
had, right now they have 2,000 ash trees left and they're....they're treating approximately
700 trees a year, so altemating...alternating years. Urn, and for staff comparison, Grand
Rapids has a forestry budget of$2 million with a....a staff of 12, uh, full time equivalents
and six part time equivalents. Iowa City has a forestry budget of$646,000 with a staff of
five full time equivalents and one part time equivalent. Um, lessons learned from Grand
Rapids or their experience,um, it's not worth it to treat a tree nine inches or less in
diameter and, urn, it's really not worth it to treat a tree 35 inches in diameter or larger.
Essentially trees are like big straws and so the larger the straw, the more uptake it has or
energy it has to try and uptake that chemical. Uh, the other reason being that....urban
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trees have a certain lifespan and a 35-inch or greater tree is starting to reach its natural
lifespan within an urban setting. Urn, and unfortunately those are the iconic
neighborhood trees that we're talking about. Urn, and in their experience, treatment is for
the life of the tree.
Seydell-Johnson/ So we'd like $2 million next year,just sayin' (laughs) So let me take you
through a few more slides about our tree inventory. Everybody's been anxious. We've
done a tree inventory over the last year and a half. We have some of the data,urn, first of
all people wanna know will it be available online. The answer is yes. We're still
working out some glitches in the software, so our goal is by the end of the year,hopefully
sooner,but the tree inventory includes the location, the size, the type of tree, and we can
visualize its environmental impact, and then a classification of conditions, and I just
wanna warn you, cause it is, they are based upon, you know, fair and poor and all that,
but it was on the day of the survey, and this EAB (mumbled; noise on mic) fast that a tree
that we judge as being good a month ago might not be when we actually peel away some
of the bark and see the damage underneath. But anyway, let me show you, first of all you
see in this slide in a different version, these are all the ash trees,uh, throughout the city.
About 3,500 out of the 45,000 trees that were included in the....in the overall survey.
Uh, these are the trees, ash trees, that were judged to be in marginal health. So, urn, not
ready to be taken down yet but to be watched. And I'll go back through these so you can
look at 'ern again. Urn,these are poor health ash trees;these are ones that we are
currently in the process of taking down because we feel like they are, uh, public safety
hazards. Urn, of all these ash trees, when you take into consideration the ones that are
greater than....let me get this right here.....greater than, um, nine inches and less than 35
and in good condition at this time, these are the ones that we feel would be eligible for
chemical treatment, if you wish to go down that route, which is where we got the $50,000
estimate was taking into account the size and location of these trees. Urn, not necessarily
our recommendation,but presented to you as an option,but these are the ones that we
feel at this point in time, um, could get treatment and....and could be delayed. Urn, and
the only other thing I'll show you is we also have a lot of tree planting going on, and
these are the areas that are getting current, um, tree planting happening. Granted not in
the areas of the ash....of the ash concentrations right now, because that doesn't show up
on here because as we take each of those ash trees or each of the diseased trees out,they
get replaced one-on-one. That's different from our larger tree planting projects that you
see here. So this is in addition to replacing any tree that's, urn,taken out of the
(mumbled) so....um.....here's all the ash trees again. The ones deemed marginal, which
you can see is most of them. Urn, and then the the poor health, these are the ones that
are on their way out right now, and then potentially ones that could be treated. So....that
is just a whole lot of information for you, and um....we will do our best to answer any
questions that you may have.
Cole/What is the cost per tree removal and what is the cost per tree for chemical treatment?
Hall/That's a great question. Urn, and it's....t will say, and uh....this is.....this is a hard
question. It's....it's pretty nebulous because each tree is different. Urn, as you saw with
the 1324 Davenport Street, uh, example,there's power lines, there's transformers, there's
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a whole host of; um,targets and obstacles. So, urn.....to.....to put a average price of
removal on a....on a given tree is....that's a hard estimate. As far as the treatment, what
we have, urn, got from, urn,Tru-Green, who is treating for the City of Coralville, uh,
approximately $6.00 per diameter inch as far as the....the treatment cost. So if you have
a 20....20-inch diameter tree, $6.00 per diameter inch, urn, you'd factor that out every...
every two years. So, urn, we could go through....we can get some better numbers as far
as what our average cost is for what we've had on our contract lately, but as again....
again, and I know it's pretty nebulous (both talking)
Cole/I know you can't give us exact numbers, but could it be as high as $12,000 per tree in
certain instances?
Hall/Absolutely! Depending on the obstacles.
Seydell-Johnson/It could be, but remember we're taking them out because they're a safety
hazard. We're not taking them out because it's an option, you know, a budget option.
It's a....it has to come out or someone's car is going to get hit or worse.
Mims/At what(several talking) Go ahead!
Hall/And I just wanna say, when Juli talked about a safety hazard, I've experienced this first
hand in other communities that I've worked in. Urn, you know, we....we had an example
in Rock Island this last July where a tree blan....tree branch fell out and killed two people
and injured three. So this is not something that we just....um, are cavalier about.
Cole/I understand that.
Mims/How do you make that determination....when it goes from kind of good to bad enough
that you're determining it's a safety hazard, I mean how much of the canopy is gone or
how do you decide that?
Seydell-Johnson/Well we look at....we look at all those things. We look at if we actually
visuali....visually see, um,the ash borer, we see damage to the tree. We also take into
consideration where the tree is. So if you notice, right before RAGBRAI, three large ash
trees came out on Washington Street. We looked at those about a month before
RAGBRAI carne in and said, 'Wow, this could really be a problem.' All of a sudden
there was enough dead branches up high that we were really worried something might
fall on someone, knowing there was going to be pedestrians underneath. So it's a
combination and we have to make some best guesses, but uh, it's...I'll let you talk a little
bit more about how we decide that.
Hall/Sure! Urn, what I can says is decades of experience. Um, you know, our Forestry staff is
very credentialed. Urn,we have certified arborists on staff; a number are certified
arborists. Urn,municipal arborists, um,we have, uh, staff members that have gone
through the tree risk assessment qualifications through our governing body, the
International Society of Arboriculture. Um, so we....we look as Juli said, we look at
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factors,uh, as far as the upper canopy, as far as the root system, you know the example at
724,uh,Market Street that I showed with that mechanical damage at the base. I mean
that's where you start. You start at the roots and you work your way up and see what's,
you know,what's affecting it. So,you know, rule of thumb as far as an industry
standard, you know, two-thirds of a....of a canopy of a tree, if that's healthy then that's
something we can look at preserving or saving or pruning out the dead and seeing what
happens. Urn, and monitoring that(both talking)
Seydell-Johnson/ ....unless there's ash borer in the dead(laughs)
Hall/Unless there's Emerald Ash Borer in the tree, and that's what we're finding.
Mims/So, let's say for a private property owner, you know, as people are watching this and
saying, `Okay, I've got ash trees on my property,' and not worry about the City. What
would you tell somebody, let's say that canopy's pretty good on a tree, is it worth, do you
think it's worth it for them if they care about that tree and it's within those diameter
parameters that you gave, if they chose to want to treat it that....that's a reasonable thing
for them to think about doing.
Seydell-Johnson/I think it's certainly an option for them,and it's....it's on a much smaller scale
than what we might be talking about citywide. Urn, I don't....the studies are changing
and coming out every day. So effectiveness,that's changing as new products come out.
Urn,to try it for one tree in the backyard,probably worth it,but that would be an
individual choice.
Mims/Thank you.
Salih/ I just wanna ask you, are you planning to take all the ash trees,regardless(both talking)
Seydell-Johnson/Absolutely not! We are only taking the ask trees down for two reasons—either
because they're showing signs of decline and become a public safety hazard, or in a few
cases they come out because of a public infrastructure proc....project. That's the only...
we aren't just going down a street and saying, `There's an ash tree,take it out.' It's only
if it's showing the signs of decay and decline.
Salih/Okay. And (unable to understand) a tree that have one branch that affected,but the rest of
the tree look really great and nice. If there is any way, I don't know, but is....can they
take only that....like that branch and still leave the tree on or this is not something could
be possible?
Seydell-Johnson/We try that in some cases. However, with Emerald Ash Borer,because you
don't see the damage until it's opened up so you can see inside the tree, you don't often
know that it's been infected, and once you have that clue from one branch coming down,
um,we have some....it's really heavy wood and it's really dangerous. So...that's why we
take it out. Other trees, yes,we regularly prune and try to save trees. Our staff would
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like nothing better than to save(laughs) all the trees if we possibly could. Urn,but
Emerald Ash Borer's a little bit different animal in that it doesn't quite work that way.
Salih/And my last question is during the, you know, last....the,all the trees that has been falled
last week, I know that there is many of them (mumbled) all of them fall off because of
something or some of them are really good trees but because of the wind, it happened I
guess.
Seydell-Johnson/We had 80-mile-an-hour winds, which is highly unusual. So, yes, some trees
we lost just because of the unusual wind(both talking) It's just that if they have other
damage or are aged,they're suscet....susceptible to it more so than if we can keep them
healthy.
Salih/ Sure.
Taylor/Is there any method to notify,uh,private homeowners that have an ash tree on....on their
property as such that....cause it sounds like it can be contagious. So if they're not aware
of it or not concerned about it.
Seydell-Johnson/(both talking) ...lots of information available on various web sites, IDAL's and
DNR web site, I believe. Ours has some. Urn, we don't go on private property. We will
answer questions all the time about it,but we don't actually go on private property and
give an opinion,but there's lots of certified arborists in the community that will do that.
Cole/I'm curious, and this may be a question for the State, urn, gentleman. Of the 10 metro
areas in the state of Iowa, uh, what percentage are, uh, chemically treating, cause I think
we know at least Cedar Rapids is chemically treating. I don't know if Coralville qualifies
as a top 10,but Des Moines is treating. Davenport is treating. Am I understanding that
correctly?
Kinter/(unable to hear, away from mic)
Cole/If you could....(several talking) Okay, so at least we know Davenport, Coralville,urn,
Cedar Rapids, Des Moines—they're all chemically treating?
Kinter/Some....some treatment is going on, and again it's to kind of delay (both talking)
Cole/Okay.
Kinter/ ...and stage the removal,uh,because there comes a point to where you're dealin' with
just so many mass amount of trees that it's....it takes(mumbled)on the city staff to....to
keep up. And of course, some of those people wanna preserve certain trees too, at a park
or city hall or where...wherever it be, um, some of those ash trees have importance, so...
Throgmorton/So one of the concerns, as you know,has to do with neighborhoods that have large
numbers of ash trees lining the streets, and worry about...I think quite legitimate worry,
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that once those trees come down,that the....the streetscape will be, if you will, denuded
and....and, uh, it will dramatically undermine the apparent quality of the neighborhoods
and I think y'all are totally aware of that so it's making me wonder about the 400 or so
trees you say at the moment you think could be treated, uh, and that would be up to us to
give ya a go-ahead on that. Uh,but there might be others,but I'm.....I'm wondering
about sort of the strategic intervention, cause there are other trees, a large number of'em
apparently,that you say are marginal,but you don't really know how marginal,right? So
maybe they could be treated successfully for years,maybe not.
Seydell-Johnson/And we would recommend the marginal actually aren't candidates for
treatment. So really we would only recommend those 400 or so, and that's only with
another survey of them before we start treatment to make sure that it hasn't changed.
So....um, we agree,there's neighborhoods that are going to look very different, and we
are sad about that, as...well maybe(laughs)not quite(mumbled)but we get it. That is
going to be a big change. Urn, I just would....would offer though that chemical
treatment's gonna push it down the road 10 or 15 years, um....but indeed you could be
dealing with the same thing at....at that point, if you would decide not to treat or didn't
have the funding to treat at that time. Urn, I would just encourage starting the process, no
matter what we do, of getting some other....some trees planted in there so that we have
the more years we can on those replacement trees the sooner. I mean they always say the
best day to plant a tree was what, 50 yeas ago or the next best day is tomorrow. So...and
I didn't quite get that quote right,but...(laughs)
Throgmorton/ So, Juli (both talking)
Seydell-Johnson/ ...you know the sooner we get to replanting I think the better off we'll be.
Throgmorton/So...so I....I guess my general sense is that your overall strategy seems completely
reasonable, and obviously is very well thought out and it's based on everything y'all
know and everybody who you work with,uh, including Mike from,uh, the DNR, right,
and....and, I'm sorry? (unable to hear response from audience, away from mic) Oh,
sorry! Department of Agriculture. So I don't wanna challenge any of that whatsoever,
but I....but I do want to be....I think we need to.....do what we can to conserve the ash
trees that we can conserve. I....I gather it may, especially since the literature,the
scientific literature about this, is changing daily apparently or at least very rapidly. I
think, uh, we need to position ourselves so that....we are chemically treating some....
reasonable number of trees, maybe 400's a totally reasonable number given what you
said, uh,to buy time,uh, and to preserve the canopy while other trees are being planted,
and that kind of thing. So....that's my gut sense, and I think if we don't do that,that
we'll be doing the City a disservice. So....um, I....I (laughs)I know that it's....it's....I
mean I've talked to a bunch of people about this. This is a painful thing if these trees all
go away(laughs)right? But,uh....that's what I,my....my own gut sense is what I've
just tried to articulate. I don't know if others have anything(several talking)
Thomas/You know I've been looking at this....since,uh, I asked for the work session, so about a
month now, and I've....I did send out to all of you(both talking)
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Throgmorton/While you're talkin', John, I've got a note that we're gonna have to stop in no
more than six minutes.
Thomas/Well (laughs)we had....we waited a long time before we had a chance to comment
unfortunately, and I.... don't mean it took too long, but this is an important issue. Urn, so
I just wanna briefly highlight some of the things that I uncovered, some of which have
been mentioned. Certain trunk injections,which is....seems to be the preferred approach,
has up to a 99% success rate. One thing that hasn't been spoken by.....about by staff,
which is in....in the bulletin that I sent to Council was that, uh, and which was very
interesting to me. The treatment can be effective with ash trees, uh,with low levels of
EAB infection;uh, trees retaining up to 50%of their canopy and foliage can respond to
treatment. So that....that's a very important data point in my mind, uh,with respect to
this, setting aside all the mechanical issues,just strictly looking at EAB. There also have
been advances in the treatment that significantly reduce the cost per tree,uh....I just
learned,uh, in the last couple of weeks, and this is all....it's a dynamic environment in
terms of the research,but the,uh,application rate with the pref....this preferred, uh,
treatment and a certain product has gone from two years to three. So that makes a big
difference in terms of the application cost. So...all those....those highlights,plus as....as
has been noted,this....this is a....a curve where we're just at the beginning of the wave,
and when the wave hits, I'm pretty convinced it's going to overwhelm....our ability to
respond to it. So that....that notion that,yeah, we're trying to buy ourselves time is
absolutely right! Um, imagine 3,500 trees. I don't know what percentage of those trees
are gonna come down or, you know,require that will be beyond the point of treatment,
that will need to be taken down,uh,how....how effectively we'll be able to deal with
that. I'm concerned that we would not be able to deal with it,and we'd have a lot of dead
trees that are then even more likely to....to be a safety hazard. So....so the idea of buying
time, I think, is absolutely essential and we're buying time preserving the canopy, which
is,you know,has value, tremendous value, uh, it's great we're replanting but....you
know, one-for-one (laughs) it takes 20 years to...to reestablish the canopy. So I....I do
think I'll just quickly end by saying I think we do need to start the chemical treatment.
Um, I think we need to confirm that our inventory reflects that 50%, setting aside the...
the,um, any mechanical damage. I do think we need to ramp up the public information
piece of this because of the impact and....you know, I'm happy we're....we're
developing a tree advisory board as we move forward and that they explore ways of,uh,
engaging the community to partner with the City. I understand the cost issues,but I also
understand there are a lot of people in the city who are interested in ways to help pay for
that, should that be an issue. So.....so those are....my main concerns.
Mims/With these streets that are like fully lined with the ash trees right now,which I think to me
is the biggest consideration. What...what are the options, what can we do in terms of
starting to plant replacement trees now, even before those ash trees come out, and I...and
I realize you run the risk of damaging those trees, if the ash trees fall and aren't taken out
purposefully.
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Seydell-Johnson/It's already naturally happening to some extent,because as I said,we're taking
out the ash trees as they become non-viable, as they become hazards. So we're not going
in and taking out the whole street at any one point. We're already doing that. We're
taking out...we're taking out a tree here and there and replanting to give you that varied
streetscape,uh, from that point on. Urn....
Mims/I guess here's my question. Let me rephrase it. If we were to start treating, okay, and if
that did delay having to remove some of these trees, is it possible in the meantime to start
putting in replacement trees to give them a few years growth. I realize you're still not
gettin' the 20 years or 30 years growth you'd like, um,but so that it's not....such a drastic
change when more of these ash trees have to come out.
Seydell-Johnson/I....I think it's possible. That's been the whole goal of why we've been doing
this since 2004. The only thing I would say by delaying on the ash trees, we're just likely
to bump into whatever the next tree disease is too, so...just keep that in mind. Like I
said,this isn't the only thing that we're worried about in the tree canopy, and I know that
there's neighborhoods where this is....this is huge, I get that. Urn, we deal with
neighborhoods all over the community and some have all maple trees, some have
all...until we get everything diversified,we're gonna keep having this conversation every
five or 10 years. It may be a different tree. We're still gonna have this conversation of
it's going to drastically change the landscape until we get to a point where our street trees
have a diverse makeup to them.
Cole/(both talking) Jim, can I say one thing quick?
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Cole/Urn, I think there's three issues. We have the poor trees that present a clear and present
danger. I think obviously staff has to have the authority for that,urn,to remove them as
they see fit. Um, we have the healthy trees. I would like to see those begin chemical
treatment,to prevent the infestation, and as to the marginal trees, I think Do....John had
talked about the 50%and/or,um, direct staff to,uh, consider what the other comparable
communities, the top 10 metro areas in the state of Iowa, are doing to address the
marginal trees. So that's what I think would be a good way to go forward. Healthy trees,
treat; poor trees,remove; marginal trees, study further, consulting the other top 10 cities.
Taylor/I think what struck me the most of the comments you made was with treating it will give
us just 10 to 15 years,but I think 10 to 15 years is a good time span and including
especially if you're planting in the meantime new trees that are gonna be growing within
10 to 20 years, so, uh, I.....I would go along with considering a treatment plan.
Salih/I also goin' with considering treatment plan because I think....and also to add, like I agree
with Rockne and Pauline(unable to understand)but I think, yeah, planting another trees
at the same time while you are treating this trees will like for 10 years or 20 years,that
tree will be growing, and if you cut this down,we'll still have like a growing tree present,
which is (unable to understand)but any tree that's really a safety concern,have to come
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out regardless, you know that,because of safety reason,but the trees that look good and
can be treated,why not?
Throgmorton/I think you're hearing support for, uh,treating, chemically treating,uh, some...
number of trees,the ones that are in best shape or in most,urn,most eligible, I think you
called it. Uh, but the overall framework that you've outlined, I think we support that
what you're tryin' to do, cause it makes a lot of sense in general,but we want, I think...
tell me if I'm wrong here! We want ya to move ahead with some chemical treatment on
some of these ash trees, so you've gotta have a strategy laid out for doin' that and taking
into account the kinds of concerns that we've addressed in our questions to you.
Mims/I would just qualify, I....I would not go with the chemical treatment. I....I think the, what
staff has said and the fact that this is just going to be coming up repeatedly, what are we
gonna do, when. It's the maple trees. What are we gonna do when it's the oak trees?
This, I think,is gonna be kind of a never-ending,urn, process,the fact that they're not all
going at once as it is and the question is,you know,with the treatment, are you delaying
all those trees that you treat, are we going to be looking at all those then just coming
down in 10 years? So are we still gonna have a massive number that come down at one
time because the treatment's no longer working. Obviously we don't....we don't know.
We'll see what happens. Urn, I think staff has a good plan. Um, I think it's....money
that we have,urn, I would say a lot better uses for. I would, given that it is the majority
of Council that wants to move forward with this, I would encourage staff to look....very,
very strategically at which trees you decide to treat, in terms of,um....primarily where
we have entire streets. You know,where....I guess I would even say, if you've got....if
you have a healthy ash somewhere and it's the only ash, I wouldn't even
waste....personally, I wouldn't waste my time on it. I'd let it go. Only where you have
whole rows of them down, you know, street,that whole street,then if....if that's what
we're gonna do then that's....to me that's where the priority would be, in which case
maybe we don't do all 400. Maybe you pick 200 or 250 that are kind of the key streets,
urn,to minimize some of that cost because we're.....I'm just....I'm not convinced that
the treating....while it's going to push it down the road, is necessarily going to spread it
out. I guess that's my point.
Throgmorton/Anybody else want to say anything within the space of one minute?
Cole/I think we're still ambiguous as the direction on marginal trees. So we have the healthy
tree or un....that were removed,but the marginal seems to be....what direction do we
have there?
Seydell-Johnson/I would voice a big concern about the 50%at this point. Um, I just think most
of our trees are overhanging streets and sidewalks. Urn, and we'll watch the research, of
course,but at this point, I don't know that you want to take the risk if a tree is half-dead
with Emerald Ash Borer(both talking)
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Thomas/Well up....up to 50%,you know, I've seen trees which....based on,you know, your
removal contract, observationally are not near 50%. So....that's the kind of thing that
I'm concerned about,that the....the infestation alone does not mean we've lost the tree.
Mims/I'll give you an example. We had the winds last week. Okay? My daughter has a house
in town. That has tenants in it. They called me at 2:30 in the afternoon,that the City....
they thought the City dump trucks were out there, you know,trash. Why they picking up
trash today? They looked out,no, it was the City crews. There was a huge limb, from
this tree,which I didn't realize was an ash tree. I do now! Uh,that was in the street, and
so it....it is, the tree's actually on private property,but....the tree was....the limb was
way out in the middle of the street. This is a huge tree. I would suggest to you that as I
stood there and looked at that tree, after I'd gone out and crews had left,there is not a lot
of the canopy that's gone out of that tree. There are certain branches, but there was one
key limb that came down, and fortunately nobody was hurt. Um,but it was just
interesting to see, you know, and I realize there were significant winds,but....the damage
that can happen from these, and when they do start to be compromised and even though
you don't necessarily realize potentially how much they're compromised,urn, I would
totally agree with staff,that when you're looking at these trees and seeing them as being
marginal, urn,they can be a significant safety hazard.
Throgmorton/All right, well we....have run out of time and I think maybe we're ambiguous, uh,
about,uh....certain components of this. I don't think there's support, Rockne, for a sort
of tryin' to do somethin' about all of the marginal trees, cause apparently it's a very large
number. You know, I try to think about the cost of treating a very large number of ash
trees. Uh, I....I don't,that doesn't sound viable to me. If there's a way to kind of
identify trees that are(laughs)you know.....less marginal (laughs) than others, then I...I'd
have some interest in doing something with them,but I definitely think we need to treat
....the.....the trees you've identified, and we need to be strategic. I think Su...I think
Susan's exactly right about that in terms of canopy along street blocks, uh, along street
blocks,um....but.....if there's support for what I've just said then we can move ahead
and know there's....it's not perfect,but we're not going to be able to talk about it
anymore tonight, at least not....not at this moment.
Salih/I....I agree with you, but I(unable to understand) Susan like we have to be strategic, uh, if
only one tree on the street and it's not gonna cause like really, you know,still there is
many trees there and we....why should we trade that, we can just take it off and plant
other trees since there is many trees on the street. I guess we....we just have to be
strategic in doing this.
Thomas/One....one thing I just want to add, and I think it's important, is that,uh, on the
questions of the one tree, one....one aspect of this is, and I understand we do not oppose
residents paying for treatment themselves within the public right-of-way,correct?
Seydell-Johnson/That is correct. We don't track(both talking)
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Thomas/Yeah,so I think that needs to be made known to....to the residents in the community,
because that...that would be an option if they understood that it was an option. I don't
know that many residents understand that they can do this, and this is what, again, some
cities are doing,you know, in fact they're guaranteeing the price on residents doing it on
their own initiative. So I....I think empowering residents to become engaged with this,
I....you know, I think is another piece of the strategy.
Throgmorton/Okay,urn, Zac, Juli, thanks for helping us work our way through this painful but
important challenge, helping us process it. Now I wanna say, darn it! (laughs) I said we
were gonna get to three topics,uh,tonight and then be able to discuss our questions about
the formal meeting agenda. We're not going to be able to do those,but I think what we
need to do is after our formal meeting come back,pick up the$15 an hour thing.
Salih/I don't think we....I guess I think we have to postpone it because we don't wanna keep the
people who have came for this until after we done from our meeting. I really propose
that to postpone it for next time, and please put it the first thing on the agenda, because
this is the second time we pushing it and it's not on the...first thing on the agenda. But
people they don't have to stay from now until we done for our(both talking)
Throgmorton/Are there people in the room right now(both talking)
Salih/Yes!
Throgmorton/ ...came for that?
Salih/We have,uh,AFSCME here.
Throgmorton/Sorry, Christine.
Mims/Weren't we supposed to have more information?
Fruin/You requested more information on Council salaries and benefits, not the$15 an hour
(several talking)
Salih/ ...request like information from a City Madison, I guess how they done it?
Throgmorton/Yeah,we....we can't keep talkin' right now,but with regard to questions about,
uh, agenda items,please, uh, all of you, if you have questions that....don't involve,uh,
making a different decision with regard to the, uh, the....the item on the Consent
Calendar,please don't bring up those questions during the formal meeting. Let's talk
about them afterwards when we, uh, when we revisit our work session. Uh, if....if you
wanna vote differently on a specific topic on the Consent Calendar,just say you want to
pull it from the Consent Calendar and we'll vote upon it separately and we can have, uh,
a nor...a normal discussion about it then. Yeah?
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Salih/Okay. But are we agreeing on postponing this cause I don't....1 set it but nobody said
anything.
Throgmorton/Are y'all (several responding) But you want it at the top (several talking)
Fruin/You have a 5:00 meeting with the Board of Supervisors at your next work session. So
unless you want to start at 4:30 or 4:00,it would be the second item.
Throgmorton/Well, yeah....so, it'd have to be the second item.
Salih/Yeah. Okay(both talking)
Throgmorton/We're agreed about that? Okay, so we're adjourned from the work session. We'll
come back to it after the formal meeting.
(ADJOURN TO FORMAL MEETING)
(RECONVENE WORK SESSION)
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/Okay,where we left off with,uh, at the beginning of clarification of agenda items.
So....any questions about the agenda items that, you know, you wanna follow up on?
Salih/I just really wanna touch base on Item 8a. I'm asking about what the current deer
management policy that we have right here. (mumbled)
Fruin/We do not have a deer management policy that I'm aware of. Um,years ago,before....
Before I was here,urn,the City had an active deer management program which involved
annual sharpshooting. The program was discontinued....2010? 2010, and has not
resumed. Uh,this past winter we did a count. We hired,uh,the company that used to do
the sharpshooting for us to do a count. That count verified that the population had grown,
uh,to, uh,the level that it was when we started the previous program 17, 18 years ago,
whenever that was. The conversation from that point forward has been what to do next.
Urn, a quick recap of that is the City applied to the State for a sharpshooting
authorization. Uh,that was denied,uh, and amongst other things we were told, 'Go back
and do more community engagement,' which led to the forum and some of the comments
that you're getting now.
Throgmorton/So we haven't rec....we have not yet received a summary of comments,uh, at the
deer forum. Were you plannin' to provide(both talking)
Fruin/Correct. We'll come back to you before we go back to the State.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
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Frain/ Share that information with you and then....get confirmation from you that you still
wanna go that route or if you wanna course correct and go some other route,help you get
there too.
Throgmorton/Okay.
Salih/And, uh,the second one is 8b, I agree with Rockne that we....even though he gonna talk
about this,but I agree with him. We need to like have discussion about that, and my third
one would be 8d, the letter from Mary about traffic lights. I think that Mary, she....she
did this because of course she had, either she saw something there or she had her
investigation and she sat down there like (unable to understand) everything for the.... you
know the traffic, the timing traffic lights, and I....I just suggest that, you know,the staff
do....do an investigation on this. So....if we need improved(both talking)
Throgmorton/What was the intersection again? Do you remember?
Salih/ Is Muscatine and First Avenue.
Fruin/We have,uh, Kent Ralston and the MPO team looking into it, and I've asked Kent already
to respond to Mary. He probably has already but....they will.....they will certainly look
at that. M...Mary has written several times about this general geographic area, mostly
about bus shelters. We're looking at that as well. Uh, we're also looking at, uh, a
potential mid-block crossing in this area, so if you can picture that area,there's really no
mid-block crossings from First all the way down to Scott. So we're....we're tryin' to
locate one that would also accommodate a bus shelter and help some of the pedestrians
(mumbled)
Salih/That's great you are doing that. Yeah. Thanks. That's all for me.
Throgmorton/Let's hang with 8b a little bit, uh, which really connects with Rockne's, uh,
request that we have a work session focused on....follow up to the Kinnick House
situation. Uh, I went out there a few days ago to look at the site because I had not....had
not seen the building....and,you know,that's pretty much finished. I just saw it when it
was....construction had begun and while I...you know, I took a couple photographs, and
while I was out there I ran into Tim Hennes and Jann Ream, who are two of our building
inspectors, and they were checking their, uh, the....the construction site to see if it
conforms with our, uh, with our City code and with the building permit. So they were
doing what we would want them to do, you know, and one of the things I observed while
I was out there, and....was that they were looking at the paving and observed that the
amount of paving that had been placed on the property was ex...exceeded what was called
for in the building permit. So he was saying to the, uh, I don't know, the construction
manager or whatever the, a young man who was there, that....was working for the
property owner, he was saying to that person that he would have....he had two choices.
He could either remove some of the concrete, sort of in the northwest corner, uh, to make
it look just like the original, like what the permit required, or....he could remove,uh,
some.....he could, uh, conform with the building....with the code as it was amended a
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few months ago and that would permit him to remove some other piece of concrete
instead a part of the northwest corner(laughs) and then we also looked at a....at erosion,
cause there clearly had been some erosion there. We looked at the southwest corner.
There was a pipe coming out, underground from the neighboring property,but the pipe
was directly to the south of the....of, uh,the Kinnick House owner's property, so
somethin's gonna have to be done with that. And then we looked at the east side, where
that, uh,a video was made of, uh, water pouring down, uh, on....on,just on the east side
of, uh, of the,uh, Kinnick property, and it was very clear that Tim saw that something
was not right and that something would have to be adjusted there to control that kind of
erosion. Uh, and one oth...the last thing was it,uh, someone in some communication
we'd received indicated that....uh, a sidewalk used to go down the east side of the
property to, very close to where the train, railroad line is, and that seems not to have been
the case. There....there was a path going down and maybe some steps of some kind or
other, uh, but there wasn't a sidewalk. So, anyhow, there were conversations like that,
uh, that Tim Hennes and....and Jann Ream were involved with, with the, uh,the
construction manager. Uh, and I assume, I hope this is true, that we're gonna re...get a
report of some kind back, uh, through you I suppose, Geoff, about this....uh, about the,
whether they are, the construction complied with the code and building permit. If not
what the remedies are.
Fruin/Yeah. Our intention is to provide a response to the neighbors who have been asking
questions and then,uh, I would include a copy of that in the information packet,
presuming it would be ready for this Thursday's information packet. Is that okay,that
approach?
Throgmorton/Yeah, good deal! So,back to your point, Rockne. Can you be clear about what
you want us to do in the work session?
Cole/Yes I can be clear on that. Um.....I....l do want to review, um, how the storm water and
sensitive slope area, sensitive area ordinances were applied in this particular case, and to
determine whether we need to make any modifications to that. I encourage everyone to
go out and look for themselves, while of course respecting the property boundary. It's, I
believe it's a City right-of-way extending down through the slope, and the resident
showed me some significant, um, streams of water that were going down the hillside, and
um, and I had asked them very specifically had you ever witnessed that before, and the
opinion was unanimous that,um, that they had not and that they believed it was a
function of, uh, so much cement...and maybe that'll be fixed by the cement, I don't know,
but it's a function of, uh, the cement being there that they can't soak up the water. So I
think we need to at least revisit that,because this was built to code. Um, and so if we
have to maybe tweak the code or maybe look at some issues related to that, I...I wanna
evaluate that. The third thing is, relates to, we haven't....there were several different
proposals that were made to us originally when we had that work session, and there were
several things we discussed—trip wire,um, we discussed, you know, possible issues for
exam...like for example if there was a replacement structure that was a certain square
footage above the existing structures,would there be a tripwire for purposes of notifying
adjacent neighbors? Um,we just had some multiple other ones that we really haven't
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followed up on, at least I don't recall that we have. Some of these issues have been
already addressed with the,urn, unrelated occupancy for example made some changes in
terms of cement in backyards. So some of those have already been followed up with,but
I think a 20-minute work session, um, six month off into the future would be good to
revisit some of these issues because I'm not convinced that all of the issues, and that we
can address all of them, but I think that there are some unremaining issues that...that we
have not adequately addressed. Urn, and I think the final thing would be related to
whether we need to have, urn, site plans for certain size single-family dwellings, cause
it's my understanding that we do not at this point, and that's something that's been
debated over the years, so we could explore that, if there's a major square footage, single-
family residential,urn, structure, do we need to have site plan and site plan review of that
by Council? So, these are things that I bring up. I can get more targeted in terms of
sharing my concerns with you and with Geoff This would be something six month off
into the future. I'm hoping that we can get some additional feedback from the residents.
Um, I can definitely say they're in the mindset of not looking back. They're not looking
back to what happened, they are looking forward in terms of future solutions, cause I do
think that this particular structure, none of us really would have anticipated that we would
have a structure like this, urn, and we need to....we need to make sure that we, that
somethin' like it doesn't happen again, because I don't think it's consistent with a
residential neighborhood.
Mims/If.....if we're gonna do something like that, my....my biggest concern is....structuring it
in a way that we are specifically looking forward. Urn....
Cole/ Clearly! Yeah.
Mims/ ....because there was litigation involved there....that was settled.
Cole/Uh huh.
Mims/And....any conversations that I've had since then, I think I'm not convinced that they are
quite yet able to completely look forward, and I think the discussion needs to be....not
about this house at all,per se, in terms of you talked about, you know, how....how the
storm water ordinance was....was handled or how sensitive areas ordinance. I think we
should stay away from how any of that was done, cause I don't know how you talk about
that without basically getting back into the litigation of whether staff did their job or not.
So I think it....if we're going to have those discussions, it needs to be....in the general
sense of, yeah, if there's going to be a single-family home over so many square feet on
one level, do we think that there should be site plans? If there....we've talked kind of in
general like if there's gonna be a house that's, you know, bigger than one and a half or
two times the average square footage of houses in the neighborhood, do we have some
special criteria or something like that. So....
Cole/Yeah, I think we could do that. (both talking) I do though think there are some specific
things related to that that are very....interesting shall we say if you go out and observe.
So I don't know, we're gonna do a memo on that, I mean where we're following up on
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some of those concerns, so at least my contact with the neighbors they were very forward
looking and I think they've finally let go of....of what had happened in the past.
Throgmorton/What do the rest of you think?
Thomas/I....I think the, uh, yeah, I agree with the....the notion that this should be forward
moving,first of all, uh,because I went out there as well and it...the project is still in
construction, so it's very difficult to know what to think because we just don't know what
was in the contract, uh, and so there's....it's unfinished, you know, so it's hard to gauge
what's going on, but I....but I do think with respect to the...the zoning issues, and then
also the storm water drainage,because I did notice that from what I could tell, and again,
it's in construction. I don't know what the final outcome will be, but it appeared that the
storm water from Lusk, as a cul-de-sac, you know, it dead-ends into the natural area, and
the storm water, what I could see,just runs off that street into the natural area.
Fruin/A portion of the neighborhood runs.
Thomas/Pardon me?
Fruin/A good portion of the neighborhood drains (both talking)
Thomas/Yeah, so if there's water coming to Lusk and then down Lusk, it just....leaves the
pavement and goes right on to the natural area. So that...that's completely unrelated to
the project,but seems to be a major point source of storm water runoff coming down int o
that natural area. So that...so that kind of thing....(both talking)
Throgmorton/So that's a remedy kind of thing. That's one of the points I was making when I
asked Geoff whether we were gonna get a report from,uh, staff about that cause Tim
Hennes was looking at that(laughs) and tryin' to ask,well, answer the question,well
what can be done about this, because it's not adequate the way it is. I didn't....sorry, I
shouldn't have interrupted you, John.
Thomas/No, I just....it, so that may be a general issue,you know, beyond the condition at the
end of Lusk Street, you know, where we have these interfaces with natural areas, how are
we addressing the storm water...storm water runoff that is generated,not just on site but
by....uh, possibly the adjacent streets.
Throgmorton/Y'all have thoughts? Do you know what you....do you want to say anything?
Taylor/Well I think....whoever pointed out, I don't remember if it was Rockne or John,that we
hadn't really followed up on some of those points that we said we were going to talk
about that....
Cole/Discuss.
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Taylor/ ....perhaps, yeah, that perhaps might of....or should of gone differently, um, so I...I think
a continued discussion about it or....
Cole/(both talking) ...solutions.
Taylor/Right. Right, of how we could prevent such things in the....but again,putting this in...in
the past. It's done, it's over, but look at how we can avoid similar situations.
Throgmorton/Well it sounds to me like there's support for having a work session, uh, so make,
uh, I don't know, maybe six months in the future?
Cole/(both talking) Yeah, I think that's fine with me. (mumbled)
Throgmorton/Yeah,we'll have....wanna be clear about, uh, what the purpose of it is, cause we
were pretty thorough the last time and....dedicated a lot of time to that particular topic.
So things are just different now and we want to revisit it a little bit, is what I hear ya
saying and, uh, be looking forward and....
Cole/Yeah, I mean we were thorough but we didn't really do a lot of things that we had talked
about, is my recollection.
Throgmorton/Well,that's one of the things we'll have to revisit.
Cole/(mumbled)
Information Packet Discussion [August 23,August 301:
Throgmorton/ Okay! Any other agenda items? Moving on to the info packet for August the
23''. Thanks for the traffic stop analysis PowerPoint. Thanks to the staff for that. I....I
will say that when I went through it though I found myself being confused because it....it
seems very clear that the...the PowerPoint text assumed that the speaker would fill in all
sorts of blanks (laughs) fill in all sorts of information, so by itself it was....kind of
difficult to track. Yeah.
Fruin/ Council had requested a memo from the Chief,urn, I believe with some questions you
had, Mazahir.
Salih/Yes.
Fruin/Um, he has submitted that to me. I'm going to try to get that in this next packet, if not it'll
be in the one after that.
Salih/I really am, you know, I was trying to talk about that, which is 1P2 for traffic stop study.
You know, I...I wanted many times looking at it and I don't know if you guys remember
this, uh(mumbled)but like number of stop and this is, the red line is on two, and I think
the goal should be this red line moving to one, so we can reduce that, cause this is really
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clear the study showing there is more people of color being stopped, and also talking
about, uh,police spending more time on like, uh, certain neighborhood,uh, and the study
showing that, which is we need to have, I'm just proposing, that we need to have a
serious discussion about that. I know that, you know, our Chief, our Police Chief,he's
doing great job in trying to, you know (unable to understand)but more discussion on this
topic, invite the CPRB on the discussion too, and....just like having a work session, I
don't know how you can do it, but we need to do more discussion about that and lay out a
plan to move this line to number one.
Throgmorton/ I think you draw attention to an important topic, Maz,uh, I also remember that
Chief Matherly, who showed great patience in sitting out here(laughs) in the audience
for all that time.
Salih/Yes!
Throgmorton/ ....made a presentation to us about a year ago about his,uh, plan, strategic plan,
for the department, and he went into great detail about the actions that he's undertaking
and that the department as a whole will undertake, uh, in the future. Now he did this a
year ago and I'm tellin' ya, it was pretty darn impressive. So maybe it'd be good to
revisit that, or...just as a starting point, Geoff, I think it'd be really good if....if you could
share that, the Chiefs presentation, or strategic plan,that thing that I'm referring to.
Fruin/Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ Share it with us again, especially for Maz cause she has....she wasn't here when
that conversation took place.
Mims/I think another important thing is, um, Dr. Barnum talked about the fact that they were
collecting data to reestablish the baselines,because he really felt that those baselines
might be out of whack.
Throgmorton/ (both talking) ....change....
Mims/Population has changed so much, and so that really might not be it two. It might be at one
and three-quarters or one and a half or whatever. So I think....I think we really need to
see, urn, what that is as well.
Salih/Uh huh. Yeah. I agree. Just we....the only thing I'm requesting to just have like put more
attention on that and try to figure out what we can do about it. Talk about it. Yeah
(several talking)
Cole/Yeah.
Fruin/Is that a work session item or am I just puttin' the memo and the strat plan in the next info
packet?
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Throgmorton/Well....
Mims/I would just do the memo at this point.
Throgmorton/If you could just give us the memo and then, Maz, if you....once you have a
chance to read through that(both talking)
Salih/ ...we can see if we need....yes!
Throgmorton/(both talking)
Salih/Yes! Sound good to me.
Cole/ Okay.
Throgmorton/I wanna say something about items IP4 and 5, which is the listening post update
and the summary report for the one that took place on the 16th of August. So we need to
schedule one more listening post for the year, probably in early to mid-November. I'd
like to suggest we do it at Weber Elementary. Uh, cause that would connect us with the
far west side, which is something we've not done before. So.....Kellie, if you could find
some way to contact the School Board or....Geoff or Simon or somebody to see if we can
have access to the....to Weber School,that'd be great. Unless y'all would prefer some
other place. I shouldn't be assuming too much here.
Mims/That's fine. We haven't done one that far west. Can't get much further (laughs)
Throgmorton/I'd like to volunteer to....to (both talking)
Salih/ ....I haven't done any since I came. Yeah, I can.
Throgmorton/(several talking) Maz and I can do that.
Salih/ Sure!
Fruehling/Um,we did have a request to go back to Uptown Bill's. Should I just put that on the
list of places again?
Throgmorton/Yeah, we could do that in,uh, you know, the next one after it. Right? Did you
get that from, uh....well it doesn't matter(both talking)
Fruehling/Mary Vasse.
Throgmorton/Mary Vasse, yeah.
Salih/Have you guys done one in the,uh, Pheasant Ridge Neighborhood Center,because you
done one before it was great I guess. (several responding)
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Throgmorton/Yeah, that was the first one(several talking)
Salih/Yeah, it was Rockne. (several talking) I just(several talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, you know we've had....this will be the eighth....that we've done.
Salih/Oh! Really!
Throgmorton/(both talking) ...two years. We've done four per year and we've managed to get
around the city, which is a key thing. We've managed to connect with, uh, disadvantaged
or marginalized communities. That's a big thing. And it's a matter of judgment and
balancing, you know.
Salih/I agree, yeah.
Mims/I think going back to Pheasant Ridge (mumbled) big turn out there(several talking)
Throgmorton/Anything else on that packet? How bout the August 30th packet?
Cole/ So IP2, work session agenda.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Cole/Um....I do think we left some things unresolved from the Emerald Ash Borer and I would
like.....we did get,we did not have enough time to speak. There was a wonderful
detailed report,but I felt a little cramped in terms of our discussion. So I am asking for
Council authority for 15 more minutes.....in the near future,to discuss our approach to
marginal, urn,trees, uh, for Emerald Ash Borer. We may decide that it's not feasible,but
I find....I found myself wanting what's the plan for Coralville, Des Moines—not that
we're beholden to other cities,but just to explore that, and I....and it maybe that we
decide no, but I think that's worth 15 more minutes cause I felt a little cramped in terms
of our time. So do I have support for 15 more minutes?
Throgmorton/I definitely felt cramped as well. It's a big important topic and we....just didn't
have quite enough time to work our way through it. So I....I'd support that idea.
Cole/Yeah, and it'd be 15 (both talking)
Salih/ I(mumbled)
Thomas/It's kind of....kind of interesting how it spilled over into community comment. It did
seem like (laughter, several talking) to be said.
Fruin/ Is there a specific date you want that on? (several talking in background) October?
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Mims/Probably no hurry cause they're probably not gonna start treating till spring, from
everything I read. Sounds like spring's gonna be....except budget issue.
Fruin/There's long procurement processes and, uh, work load planning that it'd be helpful to
have it done earlier. (several responding) So October okay? (several responding)
Throgmorton/Uh, but let's remember as well that at our next,uh, at our meeting on the, uh, what
is that, the 18t? Yeah, on the 18th....let's make sure that, uh,the topic of$15 an hour is
the item that takes place immediately after the meeting with the Supervisors.
Froin/Those are the only two items on the agenda. (laughter) Do it one way or another!
(laughter and several talking)
Cole/(mumbled) need that,right?
Throgmorton/All right (several talking in background) Any other.....such items?
Cole/That's it for me!
Mims/(mumbled) I'm not sure which packet it's in, uh, future work session topics.
Throgmorton/This one(both talking)
Mims/Okay. Urn.....I wanna bring up the issue of.....this one that we were just checking on
dates for on....the middle of September to talk about the Riverfront Crossings form based
code. And I guess I....I was surprised to hear about it, and I guess I hadn't read all of
Geoff's after-Council memos carefully enough, and....and the reason is two fold. One, I
think before we get into that, we're in the middle of a project that's going to be coming
before us....
Throgmorton/Hold on! I think there's misunderstanding about what the subject of that meeting
would be. Geoff, if....if you're....if I'm misstating this please tell me. My
understanding is that meeting will focus on, uh, 12 Court Street.
Mims/ Okay.
Throgmorton/And....and height bonuses for 12 Court.
Mims/Okay!
Cole/As opposed to (both talking)
Throgmorton/As a part of that we'll have to have background information about the Riverfront
Crossings plan and about the, uh, the form based code and height bonuses that are
provided as....or available within the form based code. That's what I understand.
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Fruin/I....I had a different impression, but...that's....
Mims/I agree with Jim, that that's what it should be.
Throgmorton/Yeah (both talking)
Mims/But I do have one other thing. We're six here. We're gonna have a seventh Member. I
think we should wait till our seventh Member is here.
Salih/Yeah!
Cole/Wasn't what they were planning anyway? Yeah.
Mims/I mean....well no! The dates we were given tentatively from the middle of September,
we won't have a seventh Member until.....6th or 7th of October, whenever they do the....
the canvassing of the votes. So...I think that work session should be delayed until we
have...the seat, vacant seat filled.
Throgmorton/Yeah, and to be clear with Geoff, cause you and I haven't had a....(laughs) I'm
getting tired! Haven't had a chance to talk about this, uh, I had....I know I had said
several times that I thought we needed to have a special work session focused on 12
Court Street and height bonuses.
Cole/Yep!
Throgmorton/After we did the rezoning. I mean assuming we got through the rezoning(several
responding) I've also said, I think we need to revisit, uh, the height bonuses in general,
but I don't think we should revisit the height bonuses while the 12 Court Street topic is in
play. I mean I think (both talking)
Mims/You and I are on the same page!
Throgmorton/That's somethin' that is....was in process. I don't think we should change the
rules in the middle.
Fruin/Yeah, that's....that's fine. I just, I don't know when the 12 Court will be coming back. It
could be....several months, it could be a year or more.
Throgmorton/But remember during our lengthy conversations, uh, about 12 Court Street, we
were saying things like, uh....we need to send clear signals about what our expectations
are.
Fruin/Yeah! I....I'm really...that's fine if we focus on 12 Court. I just, if you have an intention
to bring up the density bonuses and height levels, and...and you were under the
impression that you were going to get to that in a matter of months because 12 Court
would be resolved, I just.....I don't want to leave you with that impression. A project of
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this scale, for them to prepare the level of detail that they need to come back for a level
two approval, it's going to be closer to a year, if not more than a year, I....I would guess,
before they're ready to come back. That'd be.....just my....my guess on that. So...I just
want you to have a realistic(several talking)
Mims/I...I think there's some....I think there's some worthwhile discussion to be had and...for
example, I mean, one of the questions that I would ask at the beginning of that work
session is....is there a majority of Council Members that would agree to four 15-story
buildings if all the conditions that they wanted were met. And if we don't have a
majority of Council Members that are even willing to consider four 15-story buildings
regardless of conditions, then I think that needs to be conveyed to the developers and...
before they put in a lot of time and effort, if they are going to insist that that is, that
they're not going to settle for anything less than that. So it....I think there's just a couple
things like that that we need to iron out first before we spend a lot of time or they spend a
lot of time, because if....if there's absolutely no middle ground between us and them on
the heights of those buildings,then....there's no point in spending a lot of time about
what the conditions would be. If there is a potential to meet on the heights, then I think
we need to spend a considerable amount of time in terms of the conditions that we would
want to put in place to agree with....for those height bonuses and then it's a matter of
seeing if...if we can negotiate that with them.
Throgmorton/What do you mean by middle ground?
Mims/Well....I'm just saying I....I don't know, I mean I guess the first question, like I said, in
that work session would be do we have a majority of Council Members that if the right
conditions were in place would agree to four 15-story buildings.
Thomas/As....as presented, uh, during the rezoning.
Mims/Yeah. You know (both talking)
Cole/That's why we need to have seven members of our Council.
Mims/Right!
Cole/I think.
Mims/Yeah....
Cole/Which we'll get in weeks.
Mims/Right, and so if we have at least four Members who say, `Yeah,' you know, if the design
is right and....and certain conditions of....of office space or I want more than 10 years of
affordable housing, or whatever it might be, okay? Yeah, if we get all these right
conditions, I can agree with four 15-story buildings. Well, then let's start lookin' at those
conditions. If we have a majority of Council that says I don't care what conditions you
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put in place; I'm not gonna support four 15-story buildings, then I think we need to
communicate that back to the developer before they put a ton of time and money....into
designs, if they aren't going to accept anything less than four 15-story buildings. Now,
maybe they will accept but I just...I think we need to kind of get some of those
parameters....figured out before anybody on our end or their end spends a ton of time and
money.
Cole/ Sort of threshold questions (several talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, I...I would start with the different threshold question, which we don't need
to talk about right now,but I agree in principle with what you're suggesting. I do think it
....what would really be valuable, and this is a good reason for deferring this particular
meeting until after our new Council Member comes on board, uh, a....a key need is for us
to become clear about what the...the, uh, Riverfront Crossings plan calls for in that
general area. I don't...I don't mean in terms of, uh....uh, the mass of the buildings as
such, but just understand that....that sub....what's it called? (several responding) Sub-
district of, uh, of the....of the River....Riverfront Crossings district, what it calls for, and
when that was adopted and what the process was used to get to the point where that plan
was adopted, and then do the same thing for the River....for the form based code, which
was adopted at a different time. So that people will know, will understand the
background, we'll have a sense of what the,uh, especially with regard to the form based
code, what the...the, uh, allow....what elements would be, uh, I'm gettin' tired! I can tell!
(both talking)
Mims/ (mumbled)
Throgmorton/ ...enable a developer to get a bonus if we approve it, but also the fact that it's up to
our discretion. So I think we need collectively that kind of background knowledge cause
Susan and I are the only two that went through that process.
Fruin/You don't have a whole lot of staff that went through that process (laughs) either but we'll
do our best (laughter)
Throgmorton/Yep!
Thomas/Good for everyone I think! (laughter and several talking)
Throgmorton/ I guess we're sayin' we....we want to defer this until like mid-October. (several
responding) Yeah. And....and to address the topics we just described. Okay, anything
else in,uh, that....that packet, which was, I don't know, the 21 st....or the 30'h.
Mims/There's.....this kind of relates to work sessions, but I....and I'm not exactly sure how and
where to throw this out so I'm just gonna throw it out here. Jim, you mentioned about
getting a phone call about Mormon Trek. Um, I am getting....and some of it happened at
the listening post, I am getting more and more....um, very, very strong concerns and, um,
dissatisfaction with the idea of road diets. Um, both on First Avenue and on Mormon
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Trek. I don't know, and I just....I don't recollect what our timeframe is for Clinton and
Gilbert.
Fruin/Clinton is about two months past due, urn, so it....it should be done here shortly. I would
like to say that; I've been caught saying that. Uh, Gilbert is scheduled to be under full
design next year, with construction in 2020.
Mims/I would really like to see us push Gilbert back a year. And....and I say this because I
really think we need to give this community more time to get used to these changes and
see if they are going to be accepting of them. Because I'm hearing more and more people
who are super unhappy with this.
Cole/But....but so much of that is the construction though, I think, on Mormon Trek. Don't you
think?
Mims/Well, but you've got one lane going through and they're saying at....at morning time that
thing is backed up down past Melrose going northbound.
Cole/Yeah.
Mims/Urn, and that's....and they don't see it being any different, you know, once it's done. I'm
just saying that's not going to be done for a while. I think you're talking major arterials
that we're making these changes to, and I think we need to give people more time to
either adapt to them....and say yeah, okay,we can move forward with another one, or...
to come back to this Council and fully reject it, before we've done something as major as
Gilbert. Or....yeah, so I'm....I just....I wouldn't do Gilbert. I would give it at least
another year and make sure, I mean I'm concerned about spending all that money on
design and then....
Throgmorton/Let's not get into a debate about whether or not we should do Gilbert Street
(laughs) Uh....
Mims/I think we need a discussion (both talking)
Thomas/When is Mormon Trek supposed to be done?
Fruin/Um, Mormon Trek will be done, uh.....most of it'll be done in the fall, um....there's a
question whether the traffic signals for the new intersection will be delivered in time to
be installed this fall or if it'll be next spring. So....if not fall spring, but most of the
pavement work, the work that you're seein' now that's very disruptive is the concrete
repairs. That all....that'll wrap up here certainly this fall. Then there's lighting and then
the....enlargening of that intersection, which will help the issue that you're talking about
now. Um, I just don't know if the stripping and the....the actual mast arms will be
installed this fall or next spring.
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Throgmorton/I don't think we can really know until after the construction's finished out there on
Mormon Trek, cause I mean, you know, when I was drivin' out there, two lanes were
shut down and....it was all, the barriers were up and....and there were big holes in the
concrete.
Mims/ I'm just suggesting that some time later this....winter, some time maybe after the first of
the year, before we actually get into the design of Gilbert that we have some discussion
about how fast we're moving forward with the road diets.
Salih/But there is really a lot complaint about,uh, what it called? Mormon Trek, because....
especially in the morning time. I receive lot people that say like we....we just trying to
get our kids to school so we can go to work and this is really delaying us and....(several
talking)
Thomas/It's two lanes right now, yeah (several talking)
Fruin/The....the biggest thing is at the intersection (several talking) When it's all done,the
intersection will fan out quite a bit, which helps shorten up that delay.
Thomas/Yeah, it's not....yeah....
Fruin/I wouldn't tell anybody to....thinkin' their experience right now is going to be similar to
what it would be(several talking)
Throgmorton/Let me suggest this, Susan. Could you, uh, bring your suggestion back up in, uh,
another few months, like a couple three months, about...having a work session focused
on....on this particular topic?
Mims/Yep!
Council updates on assigned boards, commissions and committees:
Throgmorton/Any other items? All right, I think we're at Council updates on assigned boards,
etc. This should go pretty quickly. Rockne, could you start and we'll move to your left,
which would be Mazahir next.
Cole/ So IowaCityLiterature.org, there's going to be the Iowa City book festival from October ls`
to, uh, to October 7th and John Kenyon always does a terrific job, so go to
IowaCityBookFestival.org and check out those dates. Urn, and I think that's...it's gonna
be a great event. So I wish I was more articulate right now but I'm tired! (laughs)
Check it out! That's it.
Throgmorton/Maz?
Salih/ Okay, I had my second meeting with the SEAT and they have now interactive voice
response, IVR. Uh, this system has been implemented July 151 and the goal of the system
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is to call the people around 6:00 to 7:00 PM, the night before the ride, uh, you know, the
(mumbled) subscription rider will not receive the call and there will be an option to
cancel the ride if you don't wanna go tomorrow you can just cancel it,you know, while
you are listening to the options. Um, they may also get a call one hour before the
scheduled ride to make sure they still wanna go. This system really has been working
fine and, uh....also it make the...give the people the ability to make a call out, if they are
notifrcation....the weather was bad or anything,they can just like also make call, you
know, the system will call them and say the weather is not good or they canceling the
service. They will be also adding, um.....yeah (unable to understand) this will allow
things to be looked up electronically, having to have this, you know, like they already
done this, and I know that they done also a rider survey. Uh....just.....I guess Iowa City
is already renew their eligibility for two year. But that's true, right, and that the rest of
the....I guess they receive from Coralville and from....anyway they, uh,the, you know,
the survey just really saying that people are very pleased about the (unable to understand)
and they like(unable to understand) We gonna have our next meeting on November 27.
Throgmorton/Pauline?
Taylor/Uh, I think I already talked about the East Central Iowa Council of Governments meeting
that we had last week,but I think I forgot to mention but most people know that that bus
service is from Iowa City to Cedar Rapids, which hopefully is going to be a good thing
and, uh,they're hopin' that it helps reduce some of the traffic on 380.
Throgmorton/Susan?
Mims/Um.....the Access Center, uh, Committee continues to meet. We had an executive
committee meeting today. Um,just continue to work with the....the region, which is the
healthcare dollars coming out of the....the....I'm not sure, the region anyway (laughs) it's
the northeast part of Iowa. I don't get these regions when it comes to these healthcare
dollars,but anyways, um, making sure that they've committed their dollars, um,just
continuing to do....work through all the due diligence, um, on the property. Starting to
do some of the design work with the architects. Um, still discussing,uh, regulations
coming out of the State, etc. There are just a....a gazillion different....details that need to
be pulled together on this and,urn,particularly with the people who have the healthcare
background. So they're doin' a great job.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Sounds like real progress.
Thomas/Nothing for me.
Throgmorton/Okay, I only have one thing and that is the Metro Coalition is going to be meeting,
uh, at the same time as the Iowa League of Cities meeting. So Ashley, you and Pauline
are goin' out, right? Yeah, so....(both talking) I assume you're going to be participating
in that meeting.
Monroe/Yes we are.
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Throgmorton/Okay, good deal! Let us know what happens! Anything else? If not we're done!
Thank you.
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