HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-10-02 Transcription Page 1
Council Present: Cole, Mims, Salih, Taylor, Thomas,Throgmorton
Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe, Dilkes, Fruehling, Andrew, Ralston, Bockenstedt, Knoche,
Havel, Hightshoe, Rackis
Others Present: Stewart (UISG)
Provide direction on City Council salary and health insurance benefits [IP3, IP41:
Throgmorton/All right I'd like to open the Iowa City City Council work session for Tuesday,
October the 2nd, 2018. The first topic on our work session agenda is to provide direction
on City Council salary and health insurance benefits. Uh, for the benefit of anybody in
the audience and people watching on TV, I warma provide a little bit of background so
that....uh,they will know what we're up to here. So during our last work session on
September the 18'h, we briefly discussed, very briefly discussed,possible changes in
Coun....City Council Members' and the Mayor's salary and benefits. I made some brief
comments and recommended a specific change, and in doing so I drew upon data
contained in a memo....a September 10 memo we received from Geoff Fruin, our City
Manager, which had appeared in the September 13 information packet. We did not have
enough time to consider my recommendation so I promised to present them to the
Council Members in writing and I did so with the memo dated September the 28th. As
that memo indicates, I think the data revealed in Geoff's memo, um.....well, I think the
data in Geoff s memo reveals there's ample justification for increasing Iowa City's
salaries for Council Members and the Mayor, especially if we want to make it more
feasible for more people to consider serving. So....for my fellow Council Members, if
you agree, the questions become three, I think. First, what shall the new salaries be.
Second,how shall they be adjusted annually. And third, what should we do with regard
to health insurance for Council Members. So in the memo that I circulated on the 28th,
for discussion purposes, I proposed that we increase Council Members' salary to be
consistent with the$11.50 minimum wage that we agreed to last meeting, and that it be
adjusted annually with the cost of living index. I think I used the term `inflation' in the
memo, while also permitting Council Members to voluntarily sign up for health insurance
benefits as half-time employees. If we do this, Council Members' and the Mayor's
annual salaries would increase to, for Council Members, $11,960 and for the Mayor,
$14,950, respectively, effective the first of July, 2020. So.....with that as background
and, you know, to make sure that people know what we're gonna be talking about. What
are your thoughts? It's gonna be a Council decision so let's figure out what ya wanna do,
or we wanna do.
Mims/My first comment in....in your calculations, Jim, you've made the assumption that, um,
Council Members work half time, 20 hours a week, and I think that's a pretty excessive
number. Um, I know we've got three retirees and maybe you folks do, uh,you know, I
think for some of you it's really become, you know, a passion and you put an awful lot of
time into it and I....I don't, I'm not being critical. I'm just saying I think you do, you
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have the time. But I think we have an awful lot and....and certainly for a long, long time,
have had a lot of people serve on this Council who are full time employees, full time
business owners, whatever, who have done, uh, a very good job on Council, and certainly
do not average half-time, I mean there's no way that I average four hours every single
day,um, for this work. You know, some weeks it's more than that, but most weeks it's
less. Obviously the weeks that we have, um,meetings and we have our.....and
sometimes when we have bigger packets, obviously January where we have, um, a
number of extra meetings for budget, but just as a baseline that was the first thing that
jumped out at me is I think basing this on a 20 hours a week is excessive in doing the
calculation.
Salih/For me I just can relate to this because I'm a full time employees. My income is really the
main income, and like....like as a household income. My family rely on my income. But
sometime I have to get like time off from my work, and I made up that hours later on the
day. To tell you the truth, since I become a Council Member, I usually come home every
single day around 9:00 and that means, you know, I....you know, it doesn't matter to be
just a Council stuff, but sometime we go to event, sometime I have to come here and ask
like some the staff some questions about the specific thing, sometime I will meet others
on here on the City like....like today 1 met with Steve about the project vouchers, uh,
based, you know,programs that, you know (unable to understand) what it is. Uh, I really
don't concern about increasing or not increasing the City Council's salary. That is not
really my....you know, my intention at all,uh, but my intention here, uh, the Mayor said
`I propose we increase Council Members' salary to be consistent with the 11.50
minimum wage.' I like the word consistent. That's why I would like to see another
number than 11. That doesn't means I want more salary. No! Because in 2000....July of
20015, July of 2020, July 151 of 2020, I don't think you gonna be still only 11.50 if we're
really proposing to increase the minimum wage of; I mean the livable wage for City
employees to 11.50 is starting July of 2019. But 2020, I think we'll be 13.25 by any
mean I don't mean you guys should use 13.25 for our salary, even if you don't increase it.
Nothing is not a problem with me. But I would like to see you saying 13.25 instead of
saying 11.50 because July of 2020 that what it should be!
Throgmorton/Others?
Taylor/I'm one of those retired folks and I have to be honest, I didn't,uh, run for Council or get
on Council for the salary aspect of it. Urn, I....I was quite surprised actually at, uh, at
what the salary was, uh, both good and bad, but I think in regards to Susan's comment,
having worked as management many, many years and, uh....uh, negotiated contracts,
there is such a thing as a salaried employee versus an hourly employee, and I think
maybe that's what we're gettin' hung up on is this hourly, uh, wage, and I....I would like
to see it maybe more worded that, uh, that's the salary, and I think that's what, uh, some
of the other figures that you showed with the other cities were more of a salary. They
didn't state an hourly wage, uh, it's just a salary and based on comparative cities, we are
fairly low on the low side, and the other comment was that it varies, and it does vary, uh,
from month-to-month and week-to-week, uh, might be 40 hours one week versus 20 the
next and it all kind of balances out but I've never thought of it in that respect as far as
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how much time that I...I spend doing it, um, sometimes is more than others,but I would
like to see it more as a salary versus the hourly wage and maybe that would, uh, decrease
that hang-up on that.
Cole/ I'll jump in here and basically state that I agree with Mayor Throgmorton across the board.
Both as to the 12,000 annual salary, um, his proposed cost of living adjustment, as well as
to the health insurance. I think the big picture issue here isn't just how it affects us. I
think really it is...is how does this affect future folks' ability to serve. Now I don't know
if we....one thing that's missing from this discussion is what is the, um, average income
for previous Councilors over the last 20 years. We don't have that data here, urn, but my
guess is there probably were not a lot of low-wage workers who have served on Council,
and I think really...we're not going to be able to solve everything, urn,by this proposed
increase,but I believe we will open up some new opportunities for people to be able to
serve, I mean if you're talking about....I can think of someone who may be workin' 40
hours at an hourly job, and if they were able to have 12,000 extra a year, I....I think that
would probably be the difference between being able to serve and not. I mean this is
always be definition a very imprecise measurement, but in my view it's reasonable, um, it
really does, um, speak to allowing more people to throw their hat in the ring,because I
think for some people an economic barrier is a significant issue and I think we'll wanna
try to remove that to the extent that we can, while at the same time recognizing that this is
service. We all acknowledge that we're here for public service and not for the salary, but
it is a piece of it. Um, in terms of the annual cost of living, I think that that's reasonable,
and I think for the part-time employees that's important as well. So I'm hoping that this
will be something that will open up new....new barriers, and for anyone on the Council
table that decides to run again in the future, urn, it will....will also have political
accountability. So if there are voters out there that think this is an unreasonable, or that
this is stand alone,um, too high, um, certainly I think anyone who would run at least in
the next election would be accountable to the voters in terms of their assessment on that.
So I think it's good to sort of get the word out, um, that....that we will have an
intervening election, um, prior to the time that any of this would become effective, um, at
least for some of us if we decide to run again. Um, so I....I think it's reasonable, Jim,
and I think in terms of....I don't wanna get too caught up in 11.50 or salary. I think you
were trying to use it as sort of a rough....estimate, Jim, in terms of how you came up with
the number that you did, and at the same time looking at similarly situated cities, this
plates us right about I think average in terms of other cities like Sioux City, Cedar
Rapids,urn, Davenport. So I...I'm really comfortable in terms of where we're at in terms
of numbers.
Thomas/Yeah,my....my feeling going into this was, you know, I think as we stated at the outset
that the concern we have here is trying to open up, urn, the opportunity to serve on City
Council to those who, uh, may have a lower income and that income is an issue, and I've
talked to people who have had that concern and have said that, you know, I would
consider running,but you know it's....it's a demanding job. I just don't know that I
would, um, since it....the compensation is so low that I'd have the opportunity to serve in
the way that I would like to serve. So that....so with that in mind I think the idea of
increasing the....the salary, and I kind of agree with, um, Pauline on this. I....I really
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hadn't viewed it based on hourly time. I mean I, you know, it's....that's going to vary
from person to person. Uh, I looked at Sioux City in particular. It's a population of
82,000. Uh, that seemed to me to be kind of a regional, uh, reference, uh, a reasonable
reference for the salaries. It's 13,000. I found it interesting, Jim, in a way that that's kind
of where your formula ended up, more or less at 13,000. I think it was useful to think in
those terms, that....um, if you do apply the minimum wage and some of us probably do
work somewhere between 15 and 20 hours, that....that's where it ends up. Um....so I
don't....l don't really object to using that as a reference. Uh, I think Pauline's point is...is
well taken, at the same time, so I....I'm I'm supportive of....of the way you've
suggested we address those three points, um.....I think it will help bridge the gap for
those who might be considering and think ....the question of how can I make it all work,
uh, becomes a factor.
Throgmorton/Uh, well I think that's all pretty helpful, what everybody said, and...and I don't
have personally any strong ves....investment in what I recommended. I just wanted to
get a conversation going and having something to....to focus our attention on. I think
Susan's point about how....probably the average Council Member over the years has not
spent 20 hours a week. In the past I've heard people talk in terms of 10 to 20 hours. It
depends on the week, you know, and what's coming up during...uh, for the, you know,
the next meeting and so on. And I think your point, uh, Pauline, about....not really
thinkin' in terms of hourly wage, but instead of thinking in terms of salary is probably a
good idea. Uh, and Rockne, uh, I was using the hourly wage as....as a surrogate (laughs)
Cole/Yeah.
Throgmorton/Tryin' to see, okay, instead of just doubling salary, which is what I was originally
thinking, I thought, well, it's...what happens if we use 11.50 as a starting point. What...
whatdaya end up with (laughs) and I had to use some assumed hours per week in order to
come up with (laughs)uh, an estimate. So.....yeah, so I......you know, I'm....personally,
um....um, completely agreeable to the idea of having a....of increasing the salary to the
numbers that I indicated and kind of not thinking in terms of hourly wage, and...but I
don't know if the rest of you agree with that idea or if you'd wanna do something similar,
I mean different(laughs)
Cole/I agree with you, Jim. So that's where I'm at!
Mims/I mean I think the numbers that you've put out regardless of how you got to them fall....
within reasonable, uh, comparison of other, uh, cities in the state. So I....I don't think it's
unreasonable. I....so.....
Salih/Uh, for me really I....I'm not really very supportive of this because I said last time I'm not
supporting to his because I would like to see City employees first like being, having like
increase in the minimum wage, even though we talked about it but now, you know, I
don't know. You....you, Rockne said you use that number just to (unable to understand)
that's not gonna be a number in 2020, right?
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Throgmorton/Well if we stuck to. the the minimum wage figure for calculating in the
future, right, it would not be whatwhat we'd end up seeing, uh, a year or two from
now. Or three years from now.
Salih/(unable to understand) if we stuck to 11.50 you mean?
Throgmorton/Well but, you know, if....if we start, if we just.....drop the idea of thinking about
minimum, a....applying the minimum wage as if we're.....uh, and instead use...just use
the....the end, the....the numbers that are generated by using that figure as a salary then
what we would be accomplishing is increasing the salaries for the Council Members and
the Mayor, somewhat. Not....not by some huge, dramatic, uh, amount but by a
reasonable amount, given what other mayors and council members and other, 10 other or
whatever, nine other cities are getting paid. So....you know, it seems to me that's a
reasonable thing to do.
Salih/Yeah, I just feel like....we did not have a strong discussion about the minimum wage that
as we have, or the livable wage, for City employees, seasonable City employees, as we
have discussed (unable to understand) discussion on this. I really don't support it. Uh,
I'm gonna vote no for this and.....I will just, you know, think....I can....I can revisit it
after I see that we already have agreement on increasing the City employees, the
seasonable employees, to $15 an hour for the next three years.
Throgmorton/Okay. Uh, Pauline, John, do you have views?
Thomas/Uh, I...as I said, I could go either way. I could say, urn, you know, peg it to the
minimum wage or just set it at say Sioux City's 13,000 and leave it at that, and then you,
I guess,would adjust based on the cost of living....from that point forward. Either way.
I mean they (mumbled) pretty much in the same place, um, so I think the....the intention
is similar with (both talking)
Throgmorton/Well, uh.....(several talking) let me challenge that just a little bit. If....if we, urn
uh, apply Maza's thinking......and use the minimum wage of 11.50, then....(both
talking)
Thomas/It goes up more.
Throgmorton/ ....a year from now would go up and a year after that would go up.
Thomas/Right.
Throgmorton/I did not try to calculate what $15 an hour, 20 hours a week would come out to be.
(laughs) I think it'd be cons....you know, significantly higher(both talking)
Thomas/In your memo I thought you said it....with those subsequent raises in effect, it would
bring the Council Member's salary to $15,600.....by 2022.
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Throgmorton/ Sorry, I have to look at my memo about that.
Thomas/ So....I don't know. May....maybe it's best to, uh, if it's confusing in any way, to sort
of tie it to the,um, minimum wage increases,just setting it as a salary, um, whatever we
feel comfortable with. You know, I'm suggesting 13,000 and just leave it at that, uh, and
then adjust it....based on, you know, the....whatever(both talking)
Mims/Cost of living.
Thomas/......cost of living from that point forward. Um....
Mims/If....if we're gonna do anything, and I'm fine with leaving it where we are, urn, and I've
talked about that before, but if we're gonna make a change, I think it should just be set it
as a salary and increase based on cost of living.
Thomas/Well that's (both talking)
Mims/I think totally separate it from the wage,because I think if you put it up there now, and
then you're gonna increase at the same rate that you're increasing those seasonable
employees, then you really are pegging it as if you're working 20 hours a week, and I
really think, as I said, I think that's over and above for most.
Thomas/Yeah. I....I think there is some argument for just putting it as a salary, not tying it to
hourly(both talking) for all those reasons. Everyone works differently, um,there....
there wouldn't be any expectation about how many hours you would work if we just said
it's a salary....but I think it's....it, in my mind (laughs) I kind of viewed it, well, more,
okay if you look at it....from my experience, say as Jim had said 10 to 15,what is that....
and you put it at 13,000, what would that translate to in terms of an hourly, and it would
be higher. Um, but that's okay too. Uh, so (clears throat) you know, I....I think the....a
salary of 13,000 seems like a reasonable step up. It achieves our goals without....tying it
to hourly considerations.
Throgmorton/Where are you getting 13,000?
Thomas/ Sioux City,uh, their city council is 13,000 a year.
Cole/Jim, you were at 11.9, correct?
Throgmorton/Correct.
Cole/Yeah, so you're making a different proposal, so I guess do you agree or disagree with Jim?
Throgmorton/Yeah, actually I was recommending $11,960....for Council Members.
Thomas/ I guess I am disagreeing with Jim. It sets it a little bit higher but then it caps it at that
higher rate so we don't end up in three years being at....15,000 (mumbled)
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Throgmorton/Well, but....but I,to be clear, I was not recommending that we....set it at 11,960
and then have it go up to $15 an hour and so it'd be(both talking)
Thomas/ ...in concert with the(both talking)
Throgmorton/I was recommending it'd go up with the, or down, with the cost of living index.
Uh, Pauline, uh, I can see you calculatin' there.
Taylor/I was trying to calculate the....the $15 an hour. It came out to like over 14,000 a year.
Uh, I'm....I would be fine with the salaried and not tied to the cost of living increase. I
think just as long as it, we're aware that that's what the salary is for City Council.
(several talking)
Cole/ So you're agreeing with Jim's numbers then?
Taylor/Yes.
Mims/And no increases?
Taylor/But....but no cost of living increase.
Thomas/ I would (several talking)
Throgmorton/Why not? (laughter)
Thomas/You're....you're gonna get....
Mims/You're gonna end up back in the same situation (several talking)
Taylor/All right (laughs) (mumbled)the salary and then do the cost of living.....increase.
That'd be fine.
Throgmorton/Well I....I (both talking)
Taylor/But Jim's numbers! With Jim's numbers.
Throgmorton/ I....I hear, you know, Maz does not agree with this and I hear that John has, uh....
a slightly different version,but I hear four people in favor of what I had suggested. So
are....are we comfortable with proceeding with what the four people are recommending?
Thomas/What are we....could you, what are we recommending,just to be clear.
Throgmorton/Uh,that on July....effective July 1st, 2020, the Council Member's salaries would
increase to $11,960 from the current, what is it, $7,000.....I don't remember right off the
top of my head.
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Fruin/ 7,259.
Throgmorton/Thank you! And the Mayor's salary would increase to $14,950 instead of....
Fruit)/ 8,278.
Throgmorton/Yeah. So that's what's being suggested.
Dilkes/You'll....you'll see it in writing, cause this has (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ....adjusted, uh(both talking)
Mikes/This has to be done by ordinance.
Throgmorton/Yeah, and then be adjusted, uh, in accord with the cost of living(both talking)
Dilkes/ ...as it is now. So you'll just.....it'll come to you....in ordinance form.
Throgmorton/Yeah, okay. And to be very clear for the public's benefit, and ours, this would be
effective July ls!, 2020. So...it's not as if we're giving ourselves an immediate pay
increase or something like that. The intent is two-fold, I think. To bring our salaries
more in line with.....nine other cities in Iowa(laughs) and also to make it more possible
for people of lower incomes to be able to run for Council, serve on Council....well not to
run for Council, to serve on Council, uh, while also,uh, working whatever job they
happen to have or....or not have. It'd be more viable for them to be able to do it. Okay.
So....there's that, but we also need to discuss the health insurance part. And what I
recommended was that,uh, Council Members, and the Mayor, can voluntarily sign up for
health insurance as half-time employees, and you know,there was data in Geoff's earlier
memo about what the monthly, was it the monthly, um, contribution from the employ...
from the Council Members would be, and the City's contribution would be equal to
the.......whatever the Council Member's monthly contribution was. So one of the
possible benefits, I think,for increasing the salaries is that it makes it possible for some
sal....some Council Members to sign up for half-time, or....as half-time employees, for
the health insurance provided by the City, and it would be more affordable for them to be
able to do that. I think that's correct. That's the way it seems to me when I look at the...
data. So whatdaya all think about half-time?
Cole/Makes sense to me.
Thomas/Yeah, I'm fine with it.
Throgmorton/Maz? Does half-time, uh....uh (both talking)
Salih/I really don't agree for the whole things. I'm out.
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Throgmorton/ Okay, fair enough. All right,but I think we have five people who would like to
have Council Members be able to voluntarily sign up for....as half-time employees for
health insurance purposes.
Taylor/With the City contribution.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Okay! Uh, anything else on that topic?
Cole/Nope!
Discuss Council Member appointments to committees (term limits) 11P51:
Throgmorton/Okay! Well let's move on to the next topic....which is to discuss Council
Member appointments to committees, and let's see.....my notes here in front of me. So
my recollection is that, uh, one or more Council Members want us to discuss the
possibility of establishing term limits on Council appointments and maybe have a broader
discussion about how Council appointments are made. That's the purpose of this
discussion, so whoever'd like to speak first, please feel free to go ahead.
Mims/I'll go ahead. I mean I....I think this came up really directed....I guess I would say
directed at me,urn, for staying on Economic Development Committee. Um, I've been on
the Council for nine....almost nine years now and....and to me....when you look at term
limits and you look at those at the State level or the federal level, you really are looking
at cases where, um,there's a lot of money that gets involved in those elections, um, it's
hard to get people out to vote sometimes in those elections, there's a lot of, urn, lack of
control if you will from the individual perspective of whether people stay....stay in those
positions. Um, I mean you can....you can look right now and....and if you look at the
approval or disapproval (laughs) rating of members of Congress, and yet every member
in the House of Representatives will be up for election, um, in about a month and
probably the vast, vast majority of them will get re-elected, even though the majority of
people in this country (laughs) disapprove of the job they're doing(both talking)
Throgmorton/(mumbled)
Mims/Again you're talking about money for the advertising and the name recognition, etc. To
me that's a....a very, very different situation than what we have here, when we're sitting
here all together at one table with seven members talking about the individual members
of this Council what their experiences are, what their areas of interest are,um, how you
....how you take the different politics and....and policy views of people and match those
up and put the members on the various committees. So to me, to....to make an arbitrary
rule that there is, urn, a term limit takes flexibility away from the seven members sitting
here every two years to say, okay, these are the people that wants these positions. Um,
there is no reason, there's absolutely no reason that a majority of the Council Members
sitting here could not have said last January, no, we're not gonna put Susan back on
there, we're gonna put Mazahir back on there, but that was not the wish of the majority of
the Council Members sitting here. So why....to me it just seems like a very artificial rule
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that does not allow seven people sitting together with no....you don't have all those other
issues that I just talked about from a national level to say, okay, who do we want to put
on these various,uh, committees and I think you're gonna have some cases where...you
have somebody who wants a certain committee that nobody else wants! I mean Terry
would not have gotten off from that Paratransit Committee if you (laughter) no matter
what you said to him, okay? I mean and it wasn't a committee that, you know,
everybody was trying to get on. He just felt passionate about that committee and the
work, and so to me we're talking about one incident that has happened because one
Council Member, newly elected to the Council, didn't get an appointment, and to me
that's not reason enough to put in, uh....a limit that...limits us entirely as the Council.
Salih/Okay, I'm gonna respond, because I'm the one that brought this idea to the Council, and
I'm gonna tell you first thing, I did not been appointed by the way for the...really the
public benefit I'm going to tell the story. On that day, Rockne was absent!
Mims/You are correct, Mazahir. I stand(both talking)
Salih/Hold on, let me finish! On that day Rockne was absent and I said I would like to be in
Economic Development Committee! And the Mayor look at me and said, even though
we did a lot of committees before, and the Mayor look at me and said he did not ask
nobody before why you want to be on that committee. When I said it he just look at me
and said....you can work the recording because I'm not lying, he said why you want to be
on that, even though he did not ask nobody before me! And he said I wanna be on that
too, and Susan Mims, you gonna be on that too! Okay? Be on that, but I wanna be on
that too! And I said, you know, I been elected to that committee on that day,but after
that the Mayor said on the same day I think Rockne wanna be on that too. And I said
why Rockne, and they told me that because I'm new I need to have experience, and guess
what? Rockne was new to the Council when he become on that committee, and I said
clearly if there is different between me and Rockne. I was not being not appointed to
that, I did! And after that I requested so like because I just see the Mayor very passionate
that you and him, and Rockne, want to be on that and he told me that maybe Rockne can
reach out to you and Rockne reach out to me and ask me if I can just give him the
position. Guys! The....it was clear to me they don't want me on that, you know, even
though Rockne was (unable to understand) if you want to continue I can let you do. He
didn't like take it from me by force or anything. I really said yes you can do that. I just
wanna highlight that. But.....from that time I thought we need to have term, because
people cannot just sit down there for long time. Economic development is a very
important committee and no one will learn unless they have hand on things, and how we
gonna learn if there is no way for us, if we don't get the opportunity to be on that
committee. That's why I really strongly recommended to have, you know, time limit for
Council! I wanna be there. I just maybe Pauline wanna be there! Maybe John wanna be
there! Maybe they wanna be on another like something else. I'm gonna have to speak
about myself here, but I...if I....if I'd been given the chance, I would rotated all my time
on the Council to be like in each committee each time, so I can learn more. If I been
given the chance I would do that. That's why I'm....I'm gonna tell you that's what
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happened. Not...I'm not because I don't been appointed. That's why I said that. That's
not true, Susan Mims!
Mims/I stand corrected.
Cole/ So....my position is is that, um, I know that the way that the Board of Supervisors does
their executive leadership, they do have a rotate through method. Urn, I don't know that
I'd wanna necessarily have a hard and fast rule that we would have to do that,um,but for
example for the Chair of the Board of Supervisors, I think that they can....I think they
rotate it every two years, which is also a very important position in that essentially, you
know, they conduct the meetings for the Board and they have a lot of official roles, and I
think it's more time. So I think that's sort of a nice template. I think the other thing that
we have is we have on a lot of our boards and commission that we've encouraged
rotation on that as well. I wouldn't want a hard and fast rule,urn.....uh, so my thought
would be as a sort of presumption that we look at two consecutive terms and then after
that time we really look at, and this would be for any standing committee...like including
for example I'm on the City of Literature Board. Um, the Supervisors rotate through that
as well. I think there is an advantage, um, to doing, at least if we get the support of
Council Members, to do two consecutive terms, um, and then we would have a
presumption that we would try to look for and see if new Members want to do it, and it
may be that new Members don't wanna do it, like Terry's board. It didn't seem like he
had a lot of takers. Didn't seem like Terry wanted to do it. Urn, so it may be that we
may....we can continue on the way we've done before, in particular, let me just share
publicly too why I really wanted the continuity on the board, and I don't know if this is
one of your reasons as well is that we spent about two years on our tax increment
financing reform. We had just finished the policy, so we didn't have anything else in
terms of that particular policy,but we probably spent as a committee,probably a....a lot
of time, 40 to 50 hours, and so my interest was is I wanted to see some continuity with
that. But I think you bring up a very good point in terms of making sure we have some
rotations through. So that's what I would like to see, is that we would have a
presumption that we would, urn, do new more than two consecutive terms, and that
would allow a four-year time period. Urn, and then, urn, if...if we're in a situation
where the....the person wanted to serve again,urn, I mean theoretically the Council
would have the authority to do that, urn, but.....we would sort of consciously be thinking
of the need to....to rotate and to learn because I think we can be all more effective
Councilors, the more different types of committees that we serve on. Um.....and of
course it(mumbled) with this being the nation of sort of a resolution or how I mean it
certainly wouldn't be an ordinance. So future Council, if they wanted to, could change it,
but I think in terms of(both talking)thinking about it (both talking)
Throgmorton/It wouldn't be an ordinance.
Cole/Well I know it wouldn't be an ordinance, but like a resolution, urn, or....I don't know what
it would probably be, but sort of that's (both talking)
Dilkes/If it's done formally, it'd be a resolution.
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Cole/Okay. Yeah, and so....that makes a lot of sense to me. So we would have at least four
years that the person would be able to serve, but by the same token we'd be thinking
about bringing in new voices to various committees,um, sort of moving forward.
Throgmorton/ So I....I think it's correct to say....we'd have to check this, but I think it's correct
to say that most City Council Members serve one term? Is....maybe Kellie could check
(laughs)this out for us at some point, and if that's the case, then the policy wouldn't
make too much sense. If....if Council Members, if a suffi....reasonably large number of
Council Members do serve more than one Council term, more than four years, then the
....the point is well taken, that there should be some movement and rotation, etc., a...
among the various, um, committees it seems to me. Uh, that's just a quick thought I
have, uh,based on what you...following up on what you said, Rockne. I know the
practice in the past is....is that the Mayor is expected to put together a list of
recommended assignments, and then present them to the Council Members at the start of
each new Council term. So at our organizational meeting in early January, every two
years. And the Council is free to....accept those recommendations or say no, you know
I'd really like to be on this committee and shift things around some, I mean, so it...in the
end it's the Council that makes the appointment. So I can tell you that when I was....the
two times that I've made recommendations about who to appoint to these various
committees, I was thinking about a series of things, like tryin' to make sure that the
individual Council Members have a fair amount of work, I mean...you know that the...
that no one Council Member's expected to do too much, or too little, that it's fairly
balanced. And to think about the balance of it....for specific committees, the balance of
experience against the val...uh, the value of learning about a new committee, I mean
that's certainly important to take into account, and also to consider, like you said, Susan,
the backgrounds and interests of Council Members. So when I was recommending,uh, I
don't know, John, you're on ICAD now, right? So I was thinking about the....the
previous term you weren't on ICAD (both talking) You were? Okay, and so Rockne...
Cole/I've been City of Literature (both talking)
Throgmorton/City of Literature, okay,two times in a row. So because(laughs) I think you both
have interests in those ares. Yeah, and in the past, maybe this needs to be changed, Maz,
new Members.....I'll speak for myself The Mayor doesn't have a whole lot of
knowledge about what new Members can bring to bear on particular Councils, or uh,
committees, and therefore has to just....make suggestions.
Salih/I'm gonna say it again, Rockne was new, but you had faith in Rockne but you don't have
faith on me or what(several talking)
Cole/We had three new Members (both talking)
Throgmorton/There were three new Members that time.
Cole/So that left then Terry and Susan.
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Throgmorton/(both talking) so some had to be assigned.
Salih/Still, you....even have two Members who being....if I been like really enjoying that
committee, you're gonna have been like if Rockne was not, you and Susan been there for
long time too, like you...you serve at least, I don't know how many (both talking) did you
serve?
Throgmorton/Just to be factual, I was on it for one two-year term and then re....thought I should
be reappointed because....because I'm the Mayor and it's a really crucial committee.
Salih/That's great! But, Susan was been there for long time too! I didn't ask her to get out of
that committee, but I can join and we can....you have experience and I'm the one who
gonna learn new, but by the way I'm gonna tell you that's what you don't know about
me, I'm a quick learner. I learn everything quick, and I'm not like really stupid. I can do
that. You know, and don't undermine me, and I feel like really it was unfair....this is was
really unfair, and the way that you guys did it, you know, that's why I'm requesting this,
and I agree with Rockne, it can be two term, you know, consistent (mumbled) that's fine
for me,uh,but as long as we gonna give another Council Member, you know, the chance,
and if you can just word it like if there is no one interested, like say we said, oh,
everybody here, yeah, those two people they....they serve two term,but no one wanna do
that! Okay, we gonna ask the people who serve more than two terms to join. There is no
problem for that. You can just do it that way,but if somebody else interesting, give them
the chance,because we are here to learn. All of us been elected by the public. All of us
we have to have equal opportunity, and I'm gonna push for that all the time that I'm in
the Council.
Taylor/(several talking) I'm a little confused why it says appointments to committees, because it
seems to be it's boiling down to just this one committee and I don't think we can pull that
out and put term limits on....on just that and not the others, cause personally,to be
honest, I would have had no interest in being on the Economic Development Committee.
I always, uh....um, bow to Susan and her economic knowledge, uh, when it comes to
financial things. Uh, I have been on the, um, the ECICOG which people aren't exactly
flocking to that one, uh, and that is only....we only as a Council appoint someone to that
every other year, because that....that committee actually, uh,rotates too between the
communities and who's on that, who represents it, although some people on that have
been on it for many,many years, 20, 30 years, uh, when they rotate through it. Because
there is such a difference in committees, in meetings and times. That committee actually
meets every month and not here! Uh, very rarely here. It's Cedar Rapids almost always,
uh, we....recently it was in Washington, Iowa. The last meeting was in Vinton, Iowa.
We go to the different committees cause it....or different communities because it
represents all of eastern Iowa. It's East Central Iowa Council of Governments but people
don't exactly flock to be on that because it does involve a lot of time. We get a lot of
materials and a lot of travel time and when Jim approached me about it, uh, I didn't know
anything about it but I thought it sounded interesting and it is, and especially more
interesting now cause I get to see Tracy Achenbach all the time (laughter) cause there's
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wonderful staff in Cedar Rapids, which includes her. They're very helpful, very
informative, and they....they do a lot of hard work, but uh, cause I....I would highly
recommend that committee cause it really is very interesting, uh, and you'll learn a lot
and, uh,meet a lot of people from the other communities. So, uh, that's a wonderful
committee to be on, to be honest, and I thank you for putting me on that again,uh, for
this year.
Thomas/I....I think Rockne's suggestion gives....enough flexibility, I mean I think....making
this thing mandatory could run into problems,uh, for various reasons and so I think the
idea of two and then, you know,the presumption that there'll be a change makes sense.
Um.....and then as Jim said, in a way it really just applies to those who run for a second
term or serve on a....on Council as....more than one term. Um,but I think it....I think it,
the idea, and I'm glad Rockne brought up the Board cause I remember when we first
talked about it I thought well the Board seems to have this notion of circulation among
the member(both talking)
Cole/Board of Supervisors (both talking)
Thomas/ ...Board of Supervisors,but I....I think that's a good idea. You know I think it, you
know we....we should strive to be part of all the different aspects of what the Council
does and, um.....and then of course there's the question with the Economic Development
Committee. It is kind of a....it's an important committee. I always felt with my years on
Planning and Zoning that I had sufficient background with that to,um, defer to whoever
else would like to do it, I mean (laughs) it is something I think many people would like to
serve on, um,because it is kind of in the center of things related to development, um,but
in a way fortunately for me I felt I....I'm....I'm versed in that, I can, you know, offer....
not compete with everyone else wanting to be on that committee so to speak,but I do like
the idea of, as Rockne said, of two with the presumption that there's a change after that.
Cole/Jim, to your point, the question of, you know, that would prevent someone who's only
serving one term potentially from serving, I think what I'm trying to do is sort of navigate
those goal posts so the two respective positions integrating what Mazahir's concerns are,
as well as Susan wants a little bit more of the flexibility, and I think Susan brings up a
good point too is that we have a relatively small body and that we do have to get the four
to be able to do it. So it sort of navigates those two goal posts and then thinking about
the, um,what we do with the boards and commissions, I don't even know if we have a
formal resolution on that. It's more sort of a....a preference that we've expressed over
time and I think that would be consistent with that.
Throgmorton/What, in terms of policy havin' to do with(both talking)
Cole/ ...boards and commissions that we appoint, not talking about Council commis....Council
committees. Um, we have a preference that we've expressed to rotate people through and
that you wouldn't serve more than one consecutive term. So I'm just using that as a....as
a....as a benchmark, and I think in this particular context it's good for us to think about it.
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So I think this proposal allows 'em to get the experience, have some continuity while at
the same time recognizing the need if there is, um, for change, urn, with a committee.
Throgmorton/So I....I personally have no objection whatsoever to having, suggesting, yeah....to
implicitly or explicitly having a policy of....rotating, or having no one assigned to a
particular committee for more than two consecutive terms,but I think there needs to be
some flexibility.....about that. Uh.....be (laughs) because of unforeseen circumstances
that might arise. So, but....but I....I don't have any objection to saying, yeah, let's shoot
for not more than two consecutive terms on any particular committee, and....and then
(laughs)it's really....it's kinda like a board game, you know, tryin' to figure out mixing
and matching people to various committees.
Mims/And that's why I don't think this is going to work, I mean I....when you look at, like you
say, if the vast majority of people only serve one term, and just use Economic
Development as an example cause that's one everybody's concerned about for the most
part is let's say you have two people.....we can use this perfect example right now. Let's
say that.....Jim and Rockne either don't run or don't get re-elected in 2019. Okay?
Based on this preference, okay, I would not be on the Economic Development Committee
starting in 2020, which would mean if the committee....if the Council said yes we're
going to stick to that, it would mean you'd have three brand new people on the Economic
Development Committee and that can very easily happen when you have only....when
you have, as you said, Jim, an awful lot of people who only serve one term that....in
those four years they stay on the same committee for all four years, and if it's more than
one person on the committee, then all of a sudden you've got somebody that's gonna
have to go more than that, or you're gonna have no continuity at all. So I....I go back to
my original comment. I think that we're a small enough group with no outside pressures
of money and those kinds of issues, but what we can sit as a group and make the best
decisions based on people's desires, experience,um, a blend of....of political views, you
know, for various committees if that's important. I think that's part of what played into
my staying on it. Um, and....and I think....l think what....also what happened was....we
need to have a clear process,um, in terms of doing those appointments from the
standpoint the Mayor talking to different people and finding out who wants to do what
ahead of time, and potentially bringing a recommendation to Council of here are...here
are four people who want to be on the Economic Development Committee, you know, or
five. So let's sit here and discuss not have it all done, um, and I think the fact that
Rockne did miss that meeting created, um, and I don't mean to be throwing you under the
bus or anything(both talking)
Cole/That is what happened (both talking)
Mims/I mean I think....I think that really created a....a big part of that problem,because then we
didn't have that discussion. We said, yeah, Mazahir's on and then....you wanted to be on
and so that just created a lot more problems than we've ever had since I've been on the
Council. So, we should have stuck with what we did at the organizational meeting.
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Salih/I just wanna ask you, you said....you give example of Rockne and Jim, if they be...not
being elected next time, but I....I thought two consecutive term means two year each.
Cole/Yeah.
Mims/Right.
Salih/Where you be already done from it, and if you bein' re-elected, you gonna be already
serve four years and....serve four years, two term, right?
Cole/That would mean that I could not serve, I mean (both talking)
Salih/No, hold on! No! You are not gonna be....have a chance to serve again, unless there is
new member said I wanna do that,but if there is some people say no, I really don't like
the Economic Development Committee to be in, and there is no way we can just say we
can have....because we gonna have that possibility of somebody will serve more than two
term if no one else interested.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Mims/But you know, Mazahir, you bring up a really good point. It doesn't matter whether Jim
and Roclme run for re-election or don't run for re-election and get re-elected,because
what you're....you're right. What you're saying is if we do this, and you say two terms
and that's it,then what you're saying is come January 2020 we would have three totally
new members on the Economic Development Committee. I don't agree with that (both
talking)
Throgmorton/ Interesting but implausible scenario (both talking)
Mims/ ...don't agree. That's why I don't agree with the term limits.
Salih/You tell me how. If....if they did not been elected at all, let us assume that, hopefully not,
but let us assume that. You know, that means we...we have like most of them are not
here now,but we have other people here and we have two new members gonna join the
team, so if those not...those people, if they did not been elected at all, say I'm not here
anymore. Somebody else have to be there, but say the opposite. If they been here and
been elected and they are here, they still gonna be part of the Council (mumbled) and we
have to have another two member, two more, or maybe you have all of them and it will
be the same. Some people don't interested and he can join or she, both of them can join.
Throgmorton/I....I'm not followin' you, Maz. Given Susan's, uh.....hypothetical scenario,
which it's a plausible scenario, so....but, so she's sayin' if....if Rockne....let's just
assume we don't run for re-election. Make it simple. So let's assume that we do not...
the two of us do not run for re-election. Then there'd be two new Members, okay? And
let's assume we have a two-year, I mean two-term limit, then Susan could not serve.
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That would mean all three members of the Economic Development Committee would be
new, entirely new to the Economic Development Committee. It would have to mean that.
Salih/And...what the problem with that?
Throgmorton/The problem is there's no background knowledge, no experience, no....no, uh,
having to do with the way the committee works, the topics it addresses, and it's....it's
a....it's a committee that generates proposals that come to us. It's unique. It's really the
only one we have that does that kind of thing.
Salih/But both of you were new!
Mims/But we've never had three brand-new ones on that committee at the same time and that
I....I would never support that.
Thomas/It seems to me the way I....would interpret, you know, this....the, Rockne's suggestion
of presumption does not make it mandatory. So that....and that scenario,the question of,
oh, no one, uh, would be on the committee with any prior service on the committee
would be a compelling argument to have someone, of the three, you know, in this case
you, serve...continue to serve on Economic Development.
Salih/And maybe the new member also would understand that, oh, we need somebody like have
experience on that committee. That's why some...one of them will say maybe I can
work,just like I did (mumbled) you know, I....I thinks,you know, this is could happen
too! And so the...the member who is there, say Susan Mims can also get in, with two
new members. It still there is a chance like this if the people start talking about it, say
yeah, this is very important committee, we need somebody with experience on this, uh,
you know,just think about it. You three gonna be like new. If there is three people are
interested. Do you think we need somebody who have experience there? We can have
that talk I guess.
Cole/Yeah, I mean again it's a presumption, not a mandatory role.
Salih/Uh huh.
Throgmorton/Yeah, well that sounds reasonable to me. I don't...I have no objection whatsoever
to that, but we have to....permit the exercise of discretion, because of the scenarios like
Susan,uh,brought up that need to be considered. So, I don't know, I don't (both talking)
Dilkes/There's a couple....I.....I don't know that we need a formal resolution. I think we can do
one of two things. I....I don't think we need it with the, um, appointments to committees
and boards. We can document it in the minutes. We can document it by memo. Um....
whatever your pleasure.
Salih/Uh huh.
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Throgmorton/I would think documenting it by memo would be a good thing, and if y'all wanna
give,urn, the future Mayor direction about how to make appointments, you know, like
you made a suggestion about, you know, sort of the Mayor drafting something,but then
talking with everybody to make sure that everybody was comfortable with the proposed
assignments, then that could be included as well.
Cole/Yeah, I think a memo sounds good. If I recall I think the closest analogy would be a work
session policy where we need, if it's not the Mayor we need two or more Councilors...or
three Councilors to get something on the work se....session agenda. I think that arises
just from a previous memo of about 10 or 15 years ago, is my recollec....so in any event I
digress,but I think a memo gives us enough clarity.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Okay, so we're gonna some....who's gonna write the memo,that's the
question. Should we ask Eleanor to draft(laughs) a memo based on our discussion? You
can throw it together, right? No problem!
Dilkes/Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Throgmorton/All right. (several talking and laughing) Uh...
Dilkes/It'll be very short! (laughs)
Throgmorton/Okay, any other, uh, discussion about that topic?
Salih/Just talkin' about the, you know,those....I guess the City Manager you highlighted those
position that vacant right now for Kingsley. I think we just wait until we get the new
Council Member so we can(several talking) After that we can just do this.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Yeah.
Salih/ ...if....if that's okay (both talking)
Throgmorton/Once we know who that person is, and Geoff had suggested that that person be
assigned to the spots that Kingsley had vacated.
Salih/But maybe if this is something new to them they're not gonna accept it. I guess we just
have to wait and ask 'em and have discussion about this, uh, like for example, I serve
only on one. Maybe that person doesn't wanna serve on three, or four. He like like two
so another Member can have the chance to do. I....I just think like we need just to wait
until that person come up.
Throgmorton/I'm okay with that. (several responding)
Fruin/ So you want us to wait till November, or....I mean we can put an item on the....the next
Council agenda and you can have your discussion there.
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Salih/(both talking)
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/That's what we'd wanna do, yeah. Okay, let's move on to clarification of agenda
items.
Salih/Yeah.
Throgmorton/There's hardly anything on(laughs) the agenda but there was something you
wanted (both talking)
6.a. Housing Choice Voucher Program (HCVP) Administrative Plan Resolution
adopting the Iowa City Housing Authority Housing Choice Voucher Program
(HCVP) Administrative Plan
Salih/Yes, uh, I really have two item here. (mumbled) Okay.....yeah, first I have Item 6a, the
housing voucher, uh, Choice Voucher program, which is a project-based voucher. Uh, I
think this is really good. I had a very good meeting with Steve at the Housing Authority
and I will love if Steve can give like just a small summary for that,because I know that
my concerning about the time and, you know, for the benefit of the public because we are
doing something good here and we need the public to know about it.
Rackis/Yeah, so,urn, the Housing Authority has been involved with the Cross Park Place
virtually since the inception when the local homeless coordinating board started some
strategic planning several years ago. We came to City Council exactly two years ago in
October of 2016 and asked you to provide a targeted admission for the, urn,persons that
would qualify for what....what is now called Cross Park Place,which was then called
Fuse Housing First. Well, subsequent in the last two years,uh, Shelter House did, uh,
compete and did get the National Housing tax credits. However, uh, the vouchers that we
committed to that are tenant-based vouchers and in the guidelines for the National
Housing Trust Fund, that would have limited Shelter House to only charging$480 of rent
for a one-bedroom unit. Uh, currently the fair market rent for a one-bedroom unit is
$684. By converting these tenant-based vouchers, project-based vouchers, Shelter House
can then charge up to the fair market rent and then our subsidy will be larger, but it'll
improve the cash flow on the project because the key to this project is providing housing
first, and we're talking about people who are homeless, with a disabling condition, living
under bridges. Let's get 'em into housing and then provide the services. So,you the
Housing Authority have committed this monetary,uh, or made this monetary
commitment to the project. We're just asking that we commit more by project basing the
vouchers so that they can charge the full HUD published fair market rent.
Salih/That's fair enough, yeah. Thank you, Steve.
Throgmorton/Thanks, Steve, Good to see you.
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8.g. Megan Lyons: School Crossing Scott Blvd and Washington St [Staff response
included]
Salih/The second one I have like Item 8g, which is a letter like, school crossing on Scott
Boulevard. Uh, I just....I know that they said they gonna do studies, but I just would like
to ask City Manager or the staff if they can just update us on that study, whenever they
done from it. If you can do that,that would be great. Or...you don't...you don't have up
there(mumbled)
Fruin/Let me just look at it real quick so I can.....
Throgmorton/What's the number again, Maz?
Salih/ 8g.
Fruin/It's page 1....148 in the packet. Okay. I see what you're talkin' about now.
Salih/Yeah.
Fruin/Yeah, we can update ya!
8.i. Allison Donnell: Street Trees-North Dodge
Salih/Thank you, and urn, also Item 8j, a letter from Allison Donnell, street trees (mumbled) if
you don't mind please respond to this one.
Fruin/ She's been responded to. (several talking)
Salih/ ...I didn't see it. It was there? My mistake (laughs) I guess I miss it somehow.
Fruehling/ Late handouts on Monday.
12. Settlement of impending litigation Resolution ratifying the settlement of impending
litigation
Salih/Okay, late handout, I did not check that, but thank you. You know, the last one will be
item 12, if the City Attorney can tell me because how can the resident of Iowa City know
what that about, if you can just give us like....without going into the details because I
know this confidential. Just the....the meaning of it.
Dilkes/ Sure. That's, urn, a sewer backup claim we had in the Tower Place parking ramp and we
had several of those claims for,um, damage to cars that we settled and this one exceeds
the City Manager's authority of$20,000, so that's why it's on here.
Salih/Sure. Thank you. I guess that's all for concerned agenda (unable to understand)
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11. Highland Avenue Traffic Calming
Throgmorton/ In the late handout there was a, uh, a communication having to do with Highland
Avenue and the speed bumps on Highland,but also a suggestion that we install four-way
stop sign at Keokuk and Highland. Yeah, so uh, I.....I, uh, we don't have to have it now,
but I'd like to know what the staff's thinking is about that. I don't know if there're
constraints havin' to do with Keokuk itself, uh, constraints on our ability to install four,
uh, you know, a four-way stop there. I did have a conversation with some people from
the neighborhood at the, uh, the Party in the Park at Highland Park, and I heard quite a bit
about that,uh, being a dangerous spot for kids to cross. So, there you are! How you
doin', Kent?
Ralston/Yeah, good evening, Kent Ralston, Transportation Planner. So, um, yeah in the packet
that you have tonight there's quite a bit of correspondence related to that agenda item for
Highland, urn, traffic calming. Uh, I....of the 10, maybe six or eight of them reference
that intersection that you just referenced, Mayor. Um,there's no reason why we can't
look at that. Um, in my mind though the installation of an all-way stop,there's
completely independent of the traffic calming. Because, urn, as we've talked about
before, traffic calming is a series of something, whatever that traffic calming measure
might be, and just stopping folks at that one intersection, um, really isn't going to make
that....that change that we're looking for. Uh, I would also that currently on Highland,
you do have to stop at Keokuk. So really you're already stopping on Highland, which is
the street we're discussing tonight. So having folks stop on Keokuk is really sort of a...a
different issue altogether in my....in my mind. Um,but for us to do an all-way traffic
study is relatively simple and we'd be glad to do that, provide our information to the City
Manager.
Throgmorton/Yeah, I think the concern is pretty simple,that people drive pretty quickly comin'
around the bend on Keokuk going north.
Ralston/Yeah. Yeah, I think we've actually done a study in the past but they're easy to update,
but again I would just say that's sort of independent of...of the topic before us tonight,
with traffic calming on Highland, because that would actually be more of a....a solution
for Keokuk.
Throgmorton/Right. Okay, so you're gonna provide us some feedback?
Ralston/Yeah.
Information Packet Discussion [September 20, September 271:
Throgmorton/Okay. Good deal. Thank you. Any other agenda items? I'm not hearing any, so
shall we turn to the information packets. September 20th packet.
Mims/IP2, urn, from....on the various housing projects, urn, First Homes being built with trust
funds. Urn, our project was in there (both talking)
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Throgmorton/Yeah, the Housing First facility(both talking) Yeah!
Mims/ So it was nice to see that. IP5, it was kind of interesting looking at the physical
conditions across the country in various cities of different sizes,but kind of the one thing
that....there's a number of pieces that stood out but I'll just mention one, and that is in
general what cities are seeing that their general fund expenses are outpacing their
revenues. It's a worry for the future.
Taylor/Also on IP2 I....I....was impressive to see the figures and we can see we're....we're not
alone in trying to struggle to get low-income housing into the area. The numbers were
really startling as far as the shortage of 7.2 million rental homes, uh, nationwide and I...I
read recently something about the home is....is the Amer...ultimate American dream and,
uh, so we would like to....to work towards that, but also it did stress that,uh, we need to,
uh, encourage our federal government folks to...to increase those funds, maintain those
funds, and even increase those funds cause the amount needed increases every year.
Throgmorton/Any other items?
Mims/IP6 is the State of Poverty in Johnson County on the 12th I believe it is. Um, so that
morning, that Friday morning, uh, there's a link in there to RSVP if people are interested
in going.
Salih/I would like to talk about IP8. I really would like to ask the City Manager to talk about
how he interprets this article, even though I see it's good article, but....what's your idea
on this,because I think if we can give like break of some kind of zoning code or
something like that maybe this'll make developer most likely wanna do some kind of
affordable housing or....I don't know but I just thinks....I want (both talking)
Throgmorton/That's on the September 27th packet, right? But that's the one you're referring to,
right?
Salih/Yes! (several talking) Oh, you're talking about (several talking) I just jump up maybe
ahead.
Throgmorton/Well let's talk about the September 27th packet then. Maz, you were mentioning
IP #8.
Fruin/Yeah, IP #8, so sometimes I put articles in there that try to give you the context of
something that staff is working on or it's on our to-do list, so that when it comes before
you, you have a little bit of, uh, background, or at least you've been introduced to the
topic, and uh, this particular one focuses on, uh, local regulations and the impact on the
cost of housing that those have, which is right now a big focus of HUD. Uh, you hear a
lot of communication from HUD on the effect of local regulations. Uh, so I put that on
there. This is one of the items that's remaining on our affordable housing action plan, our
original 15-point plan. Um, and that is really to....to review our zoning code and some of
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our processes, uh, to make sure that there's not unnecessary steps or there's not some
requirements that we have that may be well-intentioned and were implemented for all the
right reasons, but,um,that are having a....a real negative effect on the cost of housing
that....that we should re-evaluate. So, I'm not trying to draw your attention to anything
specific in there, but it is something that....that we are, uh, working on as a part of that
plan and we'll eventually come to you in some way, shape, or form.
Salih/Okay. And.....
Throgmorton/Yeah, this is a long-standing issue. I....I can remember dealing with this 25 years
ago (laughs) when I was first on the Council. Uh, many people in the development
community believe that local regulations drive up the cost of housing, full stop, and
surely there are particular ways in which that happens,but I always wonder why it is that
developers don't, on their own, develop...produce housing that people can afford, and...
you know, so it's a political question basically in the end, but uh, I...I always wonder why
that doesn't happen. And on that point I guess (laughs)kind of like a counterpoint, I
noticed an article in the Des Moines Register,uh, late last week about a billionaire who
just sold his 10,000-square foot home in Ankeny for$2.32 million and, you know, I
thought well, how many....how many homes, affordable homes, could one build for$2.3
million. (mumbled) a bit......
Salih/Yes.
Throgmorton/ .....but that's another point. I don't wanna digress that way too much. Any other,
uh, agenda items, or not agenda, uh, info packet items on the 27th. Go ahead.
Taylor/IP (both talking)
Salih/Go ahead! Go ahead!
Taylor/Oh, IP13,the South District Partnership, uh, I'm really happy to see that,uh, developing
and I was pleased to see the equity toolkit evaluation of this project. I think it's going to
be, uh, a very positive action for that South District, so I'm glad that's going to move
ahead. I....I just had, I don't know if Tracy can answer this or not. There was some
mention there of like some sort of home owner buying education maybe for the
neighborhood folks. Is that going to be a part of this?
Hightshoe/It won't technically be a part of it, cause it's a CDBG Home project that we can only
spend the federal funds on (both talking)
Taylor/ ...the actual house(both talking)
Hightshoe/ ....but we're going to look for partners, um,based on, uh, consumer credit, how to
get ready for homeownership, how you prepare your credit, and homeown.....like basic
homeownership. So we're looking at partners that we can have some workshops in the
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area and invite the South District through NextDoor, Facebook, so yeah we're gonna
explore those too.
Taylor/Good.
Hightshoe/And hopefully soon because,um, once we start buying the properties we want some
time for people to be a part of those programs, so they have a chance to buy it when
they're ready.
Taylor/Very good, thank you!
Throgmorton/(several talking in background) I'd like to follow up.
Taylor/IP13, uh, South(both talking)
Throgmorton/I'd like to follow up on that, Tracy. I thought it was a superb example of how to
use the equity toolkit. I wish Kingsley Botchway had been here to see this. He's been
advocating, uh, for us to use this kind of tool. I....I thought it was just a great example of
how to do it well.
Salih/Can you tell me exactly what you gonna do?
Hightshoe/We received Home funds, so we have 100,000 that we are going to buy two duplexes
in the Taylor/Davis area. We're going to rehabilitate those and then sell `em for
affordable homeownership.
Salih/ Sell it to who?
Hightshoe/Well the first preference we'll give to people in the South District, but um...anybody
can apply.
Salih/You mean like the....the.....the owner of the house that you gonna(both talking) the renter
I mean? You can offer it to the renter?
Hightshoe/We can, if the renter wants to buy it, yes.
Salih/Because I don't think you are....really your statement are clear on that. I have people
reach out to me about this and they have concern, and I think, uh, I can relate to them,
you know. We know who living there and now part of that neighborhood, you know,
stable the neighborhood as you guys said, even though I don't agree that because I think
renter also stabilize the neighborhood. But if, uh, that idea that owner only the people
who gonna make that neighborhood stabilization,this is....this is really have to be
offered to the people who live on the house, and if the....the people who live on the
house are not afford and it could happen, even though they pay the rent and I don't think
the mortgage will be more than that, but if they cannot really buy the house, leave 'em
alone. Go and buy another house. Because you are displacing people who choose to live
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there and you make them go somewhere else so I understand there is some kind of help if
they move and they find different kind of rent,but this help will be for a certain period of
time. Those people need to change their school. If they hare not comfortable living there
they never gonna be live there. I don't think this is a good idea and I really would like to
highlight that, and people who come and talk to you about this because people are trying
to like talk about it in the community, and uh, I think also they say in here (unable to
understand) because nuisance complaint,police calls, and....and you know, the value of
the property. Actually you doing this for who? Like when you say because there is many
police call (mumbled) assuming the renter who live there are calling the police. That my
one concern. Number two concern, when you say if more people, if they reduce the call
like if the call to the police has been reduced,that will increase the value of the property
there(mumbled)helping who? You helping the owner who live there by forcing the
renter to move out because they cannot afford to buy? And also, if you....if you cannot
offer to the people who live there because they cannot buy it, people askin', are you
gonna get help for those people to buy,because I don't think that's a...really an option
because you saying livable income....to buy the house. I don't think this is a good idea.
You are putting another barrier to the peo...to our wonderful people who live there and
trying to displace them. And they're stabilizing the neighborhood. Renter can do that
too.
Throgmorton/Maz, if I could, the memo from Erika Kubly on this particular topic says staff
recommends that the project proceed along with the following implementation
recommendations. First, limit displacement of tenants, limit displacement of tenants by
pursuing vacant properties, or properties where the tenant has indicated they are not
renewing their lease. Second, provide relocation assistance to any displaced tenant.
Third, give current residents of the South District preference in purchasing the homes.
Salih/But when you saying....I'm gonna just stop you on that. You saying give the renter who
gonna move, like give them assistance. Why if they don't wanna move, what you gonna
do? If I just (mumbled) you bought the house that I rented and you come and said you
bought this house and you give me the option to buy. I said I don't have money to buy
this house, or my credit is bad. I cannot buy this house. Even though my income is
enough to rent this house. Okay. What you gonna do? You gonna ask me to move? If I
don't wanna move?
Hightshoe/If we find a house that the landlord has it up for sale, um, and we....we have a tenant
who....who is displaced, we have to provide federal relocation with...Henri Harper and I
walked the neighborhood and we met with the tenants that live. I asked them about that,
if...if this was the house you were buying....the people I talked to were confident they
could find another house to rent in the same neighborhood so they wouldn't have to
change schools. The....the 10 folks that we talked to didn't have a concern, not to say
that other folks wouldn't, but the conversation I was having with the residents, people
said that they could find another unit somewhere close by, and then they would....you
would have to get federal relocation. So you'd have help with moving expenses, you'd
have help with any increases in rent for certain many years. So it wasn't a concern that
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people that we talked to on....on those streets had, but that doesn't mean....we didn't talk
to everybody. So...it is a concern.
Salih/Yeah, I know that you ta....I know the people you talk to, and you know, guess what?
They even ask you that if you really wanna, gonna sell it, tell us first! And people, those
people, if they have a concern credit, they cannot buy it, and you reach out to few people,
because I look into it, and I know that you reach out to few people and I'm gonna still
saying I don't know what the rest of the Council think but we have to look at this
carefully. We really have to. We are really doing something to....why Taylor and Davis,
you know? Why? That's the question. The South District is really huge. Why Taylor
and Davis?
Hightshoe/We looked at that area, with the time that we did a...our first, urn, equity analysis
cause we looked at complaint basis, all throughout Iowa City, it was the University. We
saw that Taylor/Davis neighborhood had a high complaints,um, we saw decreased
assessed values for homes along Taylor and Davis. Urn, and every neighborhood that I
talked to,they were....they didn't....some didn't have a preference whether we used it for
rental rehabilitation or homeownership. They just wanna make sure that money was
used in their neighborhood, along Tay....Taylor and Davis. Urn, so six of the folks we
talked to preferred homeownership, two preferred rental, and then two just said as long as
the money's going to their neighborhood that they....they're happy to see the City invest
in this neighborhood.
Salih/Because, you know, you said you gonna offer it to...to those people first and after that you
gonna offer it outside. I....I'm very like, maybe I'm positive—I don't wanna say 100%,
but some, you know,most of those people are not gonna buy it, and we gonna end up
having another person, who have money from somewhere else, come to that
neighborhood and we displacing people from that neighborhood to go somewhere else.
Because somebody new from outside the neighborhood. I would love to see that...if
Council are not agreeing with me, this is not a...this is a bad thing to do, I would love to
see the outcome and I'm gonna come and talk about it again, because I'm sure 100%
those people, they will come at a point in time and talk about this,because people already
start speaking, this is not a good idea. You are targeting certain people in the community.
Don't do that!
Taylor/I'm kind...after the fact I'm kind of sorry I brought this up, except that, uh, I....I am
excited about this project. You and I have talked about it and I really, truly at the bottom
of my heart believe that it's going to help, uh, lower income folks, uh, on the path to
become homeowners. As I mentioned earlier, uh, that's what everyone's, uh, American
dream is, is to be a homeowner, and I think they will see some value in this. Uh, I've
driven through that neighborhood quite often and....and some of those properties aren't
kept up very well, and I think on one end of it, uh, if....if.....if an owner is going to sell
that property, no matter who buys that, that...whoever that tenant is is...is going to wind
up being evicted or out of that property, and I think the City would like to be the one who
helps them to find....find someplace else, if they choose not to purchase that (mumbled)
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Mims/Well and I think too when you look at an area as the memo indicates where, you know, it
was kind of based on number of nuisance calls,police calls, and then most of...almost
most importantly to me is the decreasing values of the homes. Because people are not
going to want to invest in an area when they see that the property values are going down
instead of up. So by doing a program like this and...and, Jim, thank you for reading
those, a number of those conditions, cause I think those are incredibly important in terms
of protecting the people that are living in those places,urn, in those properties we might,
the City might look at,uh, you know trying to find ones that are vacant or ones where
people are planning to move out anyway, as those being our highest priority. So we
minimize any dislocation of people, and when we do dislocate that we're giving them
assistance,trying to help them live in that same area,but I...I feel very,very good about
this. I do not believe that this is any effort to target any particular group of people. I
think it is to look at a neighborhood that has demonstrated problems, um, and find a
mechanism where we can make that, um, a stronger neighborhood and a better place for
everybody to live and most importantly the people who currently live there.
Salih/What do you mean by like people....like an area that demonstrating problems, what kind
of problems—the phone call for like the police? What....what you talking about?
Mims/When they indicated the reasons this area was selected, the number of nuisance calls—in
other words people not keeping up their property, you know, uh, various....violating
various City ordinances with that. If there's a lot of police calls (several talking)but let
me finish, but as I said, to me the.....absolutely one of the most important things in
neighborhood stabilization is you want property values to be increasing. You want them
to be performing in line with what all the neighborhoods in the community as a whole
are. If they are decreasing,then you're headed for major,major problems, because it
says that people are disinvesting in that area and you're gonna get people buying because
they've gone down but they're gonna be able to rent them but they're not gonna maintain
them, and so you're really....you're making that....that community, that area,that
neighborhood less livable for the most vulnerable people who are looking for low-income
housing. So I see this as an opportunity to try and stabilize and improve the quality of the
housing in that area and at the same time....being incredibly sensitive to the people who
are currently living there.
Salih/But how do you know that the renter the one who making the calls to the police?
Mims/I'm not saying that! This is....this is all neighborhood thing. They're just(both talking)
Salih/ ...if we wanna make it like really ownership, homeownership,that means....because of the
many calls to the police, that means the renter are the ones making the calls (both talking)
Mims/No,no (both talking)
Salih/ ...owners (both talking)
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Mims/I think you're misunderstanding it, Mazahir. They're looking at the neighborhood and
looking at the number of nuisance calls and police calls within the neighborhood,but
then....trying to be, urn, what's the word I want? Strategic or take advantage of
situations where an owner is going to...wants to sell a house. It is vacant,hopefully,
and/or the tenants are planning to move out anyways, so it's not that that particular
property has had any problems,but it is an opportunity to take a property that is now
being rented and get it into homeownership, do a little fixing up, and again work towards
stabilizing the neighborhood. It's not....it's not indicative that that particular property
that the City might look to buy has had any problems itself in terms of nuisances or
police calls.
Cole/And I guess I'm more confident that I think some of the residents are going to be able to...
to move up the economic ladder, because I think that's a value that we all share, is that
we want to increase the incomes and the opportunity for all of our residents throughout
the nei....throughout our community, and I think this does give that oppor....I think
homeownership, I would be disappointed if we only focused on homeownership,but I
think affordable homeownership is part of the equation. What we're really trying to do
throughout the neighborhood is to get a balance between low income renting and low
income homeownership,and I think that's a piece of the equation. I'm more hopeful that
I think some of these residents will be able to....and they're going to be targeted, trying
to stay in these homes if they can, and then if not we'll try to do other opportunities, and
I'm hopeful too that we'll get residents that some people choose to live there. Some
people only live there because that's where all the low income housing is, but our goal is
to get low income housing throughout the community. Hopefully we'll have some
projects on the northeast side, south central side, so there'll be more opportunities for
people who live throughout the community as opposed to just one area. So I'm....I am
comfortable with where they are at this point, and I think I would encourage members of
the public that do have concerns to come in public comment to let us know, to keep
giving us feedback, so we can make more, um, effective decisions, cause I think that's
ultimately what it's going to come down to, but I'm....I'm comfortable with a balance.
Salih/Yeah,but you saying like, uh (unable to understand)this is really good and she exciting
about it because,uh, low...low income people can have the opportunity to buy. Is this
like affordable somehow, because you guys told me before,uh, UniverCity, you know,
City program is not affordable housing.
Hightshoe/This has to be affordable, since it's paid with Home funds. So the homeowner has to
be below 80% of median income.
Salih/80% of the area median income, and if they have any kind of problem, there is no help for
like credit problems....
Hightshoe/We didn't get any funding for downpayment assistance, so they'd have to qualify for
a mortgage but they just have to be below 80% of median income.
Salih/But there is no help on downpayment or anything?
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Hightshoe/No. We'll be using all of our funds for the rehab of the unit.
Mims/Tracy, wasn't it in the memo that the estimation is the mortgage payments would be equal
to or less than what a lot of the people are paying for rents in that area?
Hightshoe/(both talking) Yeah, that's our goal. Yep.
Mims/Okay.
Hightshoe/We hope to be able to sell these homes between 90,000 to 120,000. Um, so someone
at 80% of median income, that 60 to 80% should be able to qualify....should be able to
afford the homes that we're gonna sell.
Mims/Okay.
Hightshoe/And they'll be renovated so you're going into a home that has a, you know, a new
furnace, a new roof, so they'll be....they should be co-compliant and they should have
their major systems taken care of.
Throgmorton/Okay. Thank you, Tracy. We may ask you to come back up in a minute. Any
other....items on the September 27th packet?
Salih/I just wanna talk about IP 10, affordable housing program. Like 15, 18, this report say that
the City of Iowa City has provided over 7.6 million in funding for affordable housing
project for fiscal years of 2015 through 2018. This has, or will create, a really(unable to
understand) assisted unit of affordable housing. I just wanna ask,how many of 300
minus 7 unit are being rent for less than $500 per month, because I think....I think, or my
goal, our goal is to produce a very, very low price unit for the people who are like under
the 30% area median income. And I...I would love if we can track that, if we can track
how many of these been like 30% of area median income.
Fruin/It's on page 3.
Salih/Three?
Fruin/Page 3 at the top of the page. You can see the summary of the targeted income levels. So
under 30% we have, uh, 10% or 39 units.
Salih/Yeah,uh, you know,just next time I, you know,just numbers, yeah, would work. This is
like maybe three....yeah, 10% of this.
Fruin/Ten.....10% of those units that you cited, 397 I believe, um, fall under 30% of the targeted
income level.
Salih/Which is a total would be 39 unit.
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Fruin/Thirty-nine units, correct (several talking in background)
Hightshoe/Just to clarify, that is the income that that project is (mumbled) that does not indicate
the rent level. So that means....that the income is capped at 30% of the area(both
talking)
Salih/Yes, yes that what I mean.
Hightshoe/That's not the rent though. The rent would be based on the Home Fair Market rent or
the CDBG Fair Market rent, which depending on the unit's size may be over$500 per
month.
Salih/Yeah, I mean like 30% of the area median income.
Hightshoe/Yeah. So if it's targeted by income level, that's on there, but the actual (both talking)
Salih/ ....that means 39 family being under 30% of the area median income, that what you
meant, right? Or I'm mistaken (several talking) 39 unit....39 family or unit(both
talking)
Hightshoe/Yes....
Salih/ ...has been rented under 305 of the area.
Hightshoe/And this is the maximum income by the agreement. By practice many people may
fall below 30%,but the agreement would basically say less than 50%, less than 60 or 80.
The majority of folks would probably fall under 30%,but the agreement allows you to go
up to 50, 60, 80.
Salih/ Okay, sure.
Throgmorton/ I'd like to make a brief comment about this particular memo. First of all I'd like
to thank Kirk Lehmann and whoever else worked on the, um, putting the data together,
uh, with Kirk. Uh, it's an outstanding report. It's the first time we've tried to generate
this kind of information and this kind of detail, so I'[m really pleased to see it. So thanks
to the staff in particular, and uh, I wanted to emphasize that it says, um, the City has
provided over$7.6 million in funding for affordable housing projects over the fis....from
fiscal year 2015 through 2018, and that has created, or will create, an unduplicated count
of 397 assisted units of affordable housing. So it's not trivial, but....we we need to do
more, and we'll have to have further discussion about how to do that, but thanks so much
for putting the report together. Any other items? We have about seven more minutes or
thereabouts.
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Salih/ I just wanna have the same question for IP11, for the report from the Housing Trust Fund,
because there is also 82 house, uh, household are paying. I just wanna know also the
same question,but I, uh, I thought maybe I miss it,but it's not there.
Fruin/I think we have that in a recently submitted IP, um.....
Throgmorton/Yeah, a few weeks ago.
Froin/ ...it came up a month or two ago. I....I'd have to, maybe during the break I can find that
number for you,but Tracey Achenbach reported that, uh, maybe a month or so ago.
Salih/(both talking) ...that, yeah.
Throgmorton With regard to IP12, sorry to jump ahead, folks. Somebody else may wanted....
maybe wanted to bring this up, but it's the September 26t1 memo about the affordable
housing location model. And....to jump to the quick here, uh, staff is recommending that
we delay a re-evaluation of that particular model until after the completion of the Fair
Housing study, which is gonna be started soon or has already started, in order to prevent
duplication of effort and to identify whether the revised model remains a barrier to fair
housing in Iowa City. Uh, that....seems to me that's a....a pretty reasonable
recommendation, primarily because of the need to complete the Fair Housing study and
to make progress on the other affordable housing initiatives, objectives, that we've
already given to you, like reconsidering the whole affordable housing, uh, action plan, in
terms of, you know, sort of a Plan 2.0. So I think it's a pretty reasonable
recommendation.
Mims/Yeah, I would agree, I'm concer...I mean that whole thing was just redone like 18 months
ago...finished like 18 months ago, and I mean we can't....every 12 to 18 months we can't
just completely redo and revisit all of these things, and I think particularly as Geoff has
talked about to us too, we've got a lot of new staff in the Planning area, urn, who are still
trying to get up to speed, and as you said, Jim, we've given staff a lot of,uh,things
through the strategic plan in terms of priorities. So I think this really needs to wait, plus
just die other things that are going on, it makes sense to wait as well.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Salih/Yeah, I want to talk about the same thing really. I...I just learn about this map for Iowa
City, and uh,because, you know, and I find out that this map like been (unable to
understand) and uh, they identified the, you know, that green was low income like, um,
people who live like on the, more on the south side of Iowa City, and if I....just correct
me if I not understand this right because from the way that I view it, I find out, uh, when
they create this map, they stop the fund for all those dark green area, any City fund. In
the same time, they will start funding a project on the light green area, so we can have
like equal distributions of like low income projects throughout the city. You know, the
idea is fantastic, but since then I don't think there is any like City money has been really
start using to develop those kind of, uh, you know, the goal, the....you know, the goal
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was to...to fund project in somewhere else, not those area because we don't wanna have
like more, you know, low income housing in those kind of area. And, uh,but nothing has
been done and that's....it's telling me something gonna tell we stop assisting like, we
stop the fund from that area but we have not done anything. (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Geoff, uh, could....do you have (both talking)
Fruin/ We use that practice in....in, when we distribute funds on an annual basis. So the
affordable housing model's been in effect for....I don't know if that's in the memo, but a
sig...a significant number of years, and as we go through, for example, Home and CDBG
processes,um, that absolutely guides where we will (both talking)
Salih/Do we have....do we create another one somewhere else? Have we create more (several
talking)
Throgmorton/ ...yeah, Tracy(several talking)
Hightshoe/That map is just for new rental construction. So senior housing, um, people with
disabilities housing is....is exempt. Also, um, housing.....housing rehab is also exempt.
So if it's already affordable housing, we can renovate it. We've spent 1.2 million in the
recent past just on the Broadway condos and the HACAP units in rental rehabilitation.
So we've spent a significant portion of our CDBG and Home funds in that area because
it's exempt. So you can do rental rehab. It's to preserve the existing housing stock
anywhere in the city.
Salih/No, I don't mean rental rehab. You know,that....that's okay. I mean like when they
create....when they start like new develop.
Hightshoe/ Yeah, no....but yeah, the model does stop new rental construction in those areas,
to....to disperse into....to have housing units scattered throughout Iowa City.
Salih/Yes! But the goal was to provide more like develop on that....on the other areas here,
right?
Hightshoe/No one of the City Council goals was to, urn, to....I think how it's worded, to not
place additional, um, affordable housing in areas that already have high concentrations of
poverty. So that is the reason why those....those neighborhoods are not encouraged for
additional affordable housing opportunities (both talking)
Fruin/So when we fund the Housing Fellowship for example, and they are going to....they have
located in the light green areas. They have defined areas in the light green areas. (both
talking)
Salih/But I mean that only project so far we fund. (several responding)
Fruin/No. On an annual basis we're funding projects (both talking)
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Salih/On the light green area? Yeah, I would love to know like really how...since you stop this,
since we stop like, uh, funding that dark green area, for new project, I would love to have
idea maybe the rest of the Council know but the.....I'm new and I would like.....I love to
learn about what else beside the Housing Fellowship that I know about in Riverfront
Crossing if there is something else has been done.
Hightshoe/Mayor's Youth, um, Successful Living have bought,purchased homes for people
with disabilities in these areas too.
Salih/(unable to understand) I...I would love to know like more about this, if you created more,
because this been for(mumbled) long time, uh, I guess more than one years, two years,
since it's been....but my goal is today, if the Council agree, I would really to review this
overall with, uh, when you review all affordable housing action plan if we can include
this map and really view it again. No?
Mims/Not now. Like we just said (several talking)
Cole/We just reviewed it like 12 months ago, didn't we? (several talking in background) That
particular map.
Mims/Eighteen months ago (both talking)
Cole/Eighteen months ago? (both talking)
Mims/ I think it was April of 17 (both talking)
Salih/ ....months ago.
Throgmorton/Yeah, but it was about 18 months ago that we reviewed the affordable housing
action, uh, location model. We just....we did it 18 months ago.
Salih/What the outcome? What you...
Throgmorton/It was revised. (both talking)
Cole/It was revised. I....(several talking) goal is we're trying to prevent segregated (both
talking)
Salih/ ....not the same thing....(both talking)
Cole/ ...which has been a huge problem for the School District, but we're trying to prevent
segregated neighborhoods and we're providing....trying to get opportunity throughout the
city, and I think in terms of the demonstrated projects,we have the LIHTC project in the
hopper for south Dubuque, and I think there's a ton of other projects that we've done in
the green areas. So I think probably that should be readily available from....by the staff,
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urn, but I'm comfortable in terms of where we're at, and I haven't gotten any feedback
that don't like the map. I mean I know that there may be some (both talking)
Salih/I did not say, Rockne, I did not like the map. Don't get me wrong! I said....I need to see
more project in the light green area.
Cole/Yes!
Salih/That what I said, and if you have really done something, that I don't know,I would like to
know (unable to understand) we going to do it and if we have not review this since being
created by other Councils, I guess, we need to revisit this. That what I said.
Throgmorton/Right, and we have reviewed it 18 months ago.
Salih/But it doesn't look like this anymore you mean?
Throgmorton/That map differs from the map that existed before.
Salih/Okay.
Throgmorton/It's dark green is basically smaller.
Salih/ Smaller than(both talking)
Throgmorton/I mean the general pattern's the same but that....that part is smaller.
Salih/Okay. (several talking)
Fruin/ ...arrange a time for you to meet with the staff(both talking)
Salih/Yes, definitely will be great.
Throgmorton/All right, uh, I think we're gonna have to stop there but, urn, we....we should
come back to the September 27'h info packet. In particular IP #9, which is agenda items
for the joint entities meeting and then if there are any other topics on that, urn,
information packet you want to discuss, but help us remember to go back to that please
(laughs) All right, uh, let's adjourn the work session until after the formal meeting, or
not adjourn it, uh....what's the verb? (laughs)
(BREAK FOR FORMAL MEETING)
(RECONVENE WORK SESSION)
Information Packet Discussion ISeptember 20, September 271 (cont.):
Throgmorton/And we slide ever so easily into our work session.
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Mims/We do this too often. (several talking)
Throgmorton/Okay, we were, uh, discussing....uh, items on the September 27th information
packet and I had just,uh, noted IP#9, and I gotta find the page number here (mumbled)
notes.
Salih/ (mumbled) Council meeting? (mumbled)
Throgmorton/Yeah, this is, uh.....(several talking in background) Yeah, it's about the joint
meeting, yeah,possible agenda topics, or not....yeah, agenda topics for that joint
meeting.
Salih/I had a question about that too, after you done.
Throgmorton/Well a couple come to my mind just to get things goin' -the Gateway ribbon
cutting, inviting people to that. We don't have to have a lengthy discussion,just invite
people. Another is to introduce our newest Council Member, which would be a good
thing to do. I hope the County talks about its `State of Poverty' event. (several talking in
background) `State of Poverty' in the County....event. Other ideas?
Salih/I really just don't know like what kind of thing we can put there usually. You have like....
Throgmorton/Well it's usually....does.....it's usually intended to inform the other, people from
the other jurisdictions about somethin' that's goin' on in...in the city, that they would
want to know about, or else something they're doing that we want to know about(laughs)
Salih/Okay, because I....I really interesting, uh, like because it's gonna be public, right? Will it
be public?
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Salih/Uh, if....if they can talk a little bit about pairing a school together.
Throgmorton/Doin' what?
Mims/ School pairing.
Salih/School pairing(several talking)
Throgmorton/We....sure! We could ask the, uh, the, uh....the School District (both talking)
Salih/ ....like....people can know about it if some people are watching City Council meeting.
Yeah.
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Thomas/Do you want to talk about the affordable housing, uh, you know like some of the...that
report we just got, uh, and....if possible....I guess it's maybe a little bit early budget-wise
but a look ahead in terms of....what.....what potential ways or possible ways we may be
looking at expanding and up....updating the, uh, affordable housing action plan.
Throgmorton/Well, could....could be. Let me say somethin' about the presentation I made to
the Affordable Housing Coalition. I know Pauline just mentioned that, uh, she and I had
been at that. Uh, I....I made a, I don't know, 12-minute speech or something like that,
that went through the....the nature of the problem as....as I understand it.....what had
been done up till the recent past. What we've been tryin' to do over the past three-plus
years....what else could be done, looking ahead, and then presented them with a thought
experiment, uh, and I....I don't wanna go into detail about that right now. I've asked
Geoff and some other staff to read it to make sure it's factually correct and so on. I don't
know, I....I wouldn't wanna present them with that, but that's the closest I personally
could come to....doing what you just suggested, John. On the other hand,maybe....
maybe staff, Geoff, or, uh, Tracy, uh, could present an overview of the memo.
Mims/Does it make sense because of some planning through budgeting and other things that
maybe we wait on that one till the next quarter? I'm just....
Thomas/Yeah, I....
Cole/That makes sense to me.
Throgmorton/I'm okay with it.
Thomas/Yeah, that's fine too. I was just....it seemed we had a lot of material in our information
packet (both talking)
Mims/Yes (both talking)
Thomas/And I was very, you know, impressed by it and I...I would think the community would
like to hear that information as well.
Mims/But I...I think with what Jim's saying too and...and you mentioned going through
budgeting and seeing....the look ahead might be a little clearer once we've got a few
more meetings under our belt.
Thomas/Yeah. Uh huh. Yeah, that's fine too.
Throgmorton/Other possible agenda items? Okay, well we don't have to just dream up (laughs)
items, right? (laughter) Okay, so there's that. Uh, any other items on the September 27th
information packet?
Fruin/ I have a couple that I'd like, um....to bring to your attention. Uh, one is, uh, relates to the
pending work session list, uh, the City Clerk polled you to check your availability for a
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special work session on the downtown historic survey. It sounds to me like the 23`d of
October was the date that worked for....(both talking)
Throgmorton/ So this is a special work session from which topic?
Fruin/The downtown historic survey.
Throgmorton/Twenty-third?
Fruin/Well that's the question we wanna ask is...typically we start at 5:00 but if there's a time
that you prefer, earlier in the day, we can start earlier, um,the consultant's available. So
if we do lock down the 23rd, we would hold the public meeting on the 22nd and then the
consultant's really available for us the next day at any time that would be most
convenient for the Council.
Mims/My calendar's open. (several talking)
Throgmorton/Mine's pretty open. John, Rockne?
Cole/Works for me!
Throgmorton/Uh, do y'all wanna meet early in the morning or do you wanna meet later in the
afternoon?
Salih/ I just....the earlier is better, if you guys don't mind.
Throgmorton/Uh, 9:00? Geoff, I don't know, I'm just throwin' out a time there,but....
Salih/Nine good for me.
Throgmorton/All right. (several talking)
Mims/Are we talkin' an hour, two hours, do you know or....
Fruin/Well, that probably depends on how many questions you all have but um, I....I would
guess that it's probably going to take a good 45 minutes to an hour just to let the
consultant review the process that she undertook.
Throgmorton/My guess is we'll have lots of questions about it (several talking)
Fruin/ Yeah, we'll do that here.
Throgmorton/All right, 9:00 A.M., right?
Fruin/The second item I had,uh, 1P14,um, that you heard public comment on today was a
memo from the Deer Task Force. Uh, we are in a position right n ow where we feel
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we're ready to reapply to the State. Their next meeting is, uh, on November 8th. Uh, so
we're just lookin' for direction, if you want us to go forward and apply, urn, as we did
earlier in the year, uh, for, urn, a....a permit to to conduct the sharpshooting.
Throgmorton/Eleanor, to what extent can we discuss this, uh, in a kind of substantive way?
Dilkes/Well it's in your info packet and your info packet's been noticed so....
Throgmorton/ Okay. Well (laughs) one....one thing I heard from lots of people was that there
are alternative ways of dealing with the deer problem. My understanding has always
been that the deer population will continue to increase until they start having difficult
finding food, and then they start dying. And I think this is a pretty typical kind of eco-
systemic, uh, challenge. So if I'm understanding that situation correctly, we do need to
manage the deer population. We don't really have too much choice! They're either
gonna manage themselves by dying off and then building back up, or we manage the
population. And I don't think, uh, other folks who spoke to us earlier tonight, uh, were
thinkin' that way. So I....I believe that means we do need to take action and I....I'm not
a fan of bows, or bows and arrows that is. I had an arrow fly by my head in mid-90s
when I was knockin' on doors campaigning for election. I don't wanna have that happen
again. To me or anybody else! (laughter) I'm serious! (laughs)
Mims/I agree with you, Jim, and....and I didn't bother to correct the woman, but she said none
of the Council Members were here the night of that hearing and I was here. Urn, so I
listened to all the public input that night. I listened to Tony DeNicola, Dr. DeNicola from
White Buffalo,urn, as well as listened to the members of the Deer Commission, and urn,
you know, people can talk about....the one woman talked tonight about,um, you know,
either stera...sterilization birth control. Dr. DeNicola is, uh, he's a.....he's got his Ph.D.
He's....he does this but he's also an incredibly, urn, incredible scientist in terms of the
research he's done and what he continues to do, and....I'm with you, Jim. I think we do
one of two things—we let the deer population, the deer take care of themselves. In which
case they're gonna get to the point of just really decimating vegetation. Um, and that's
one thing that people talked about that night isyou....you should, we should be
looking at not just the animal population but also the vegetation population, if you will,
and....and the deer certainly have, urn, more than damaged some areas. Urn, I can....and
I'm not saying this because it's my property but I can tell you they've done in my
property. I mean the, and I'm not talking about just the plants I care about. I'm talking
about the whole eco-system of the woods has changed in the 35 years that I've lived
there, because of the deer, and so we can either go that route and let them end up starved,
you know, getting sick and starving to death. Urn, you'll find illness, etc., or we can take
a more proactive approach, which will be ongoing. I totally recognize that. This is not...
this is not do it and then you're done. It's gonna be do it maybe every year for a couple
years or three years and then maybe every other year, every third year. I....we probably
should have done that before and not let it go 10 or 15 years, I mean we probably should
have just kept it going. Um, and I'm totally onboard with what you're saying, Jim. I do
not like bows and arrows. If we're gonna do this, I want it to be as quick as painless as
absolutely possible for those animals, and so I think the sharpshooters have, um, the
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experience and....and they've done this. So, I would encourage us to go forward, urn...
to the DNR and see if we can get the permit.
Cole/I would as well. You know, I....I think with the animal population, I think it's whether it's
a wild animal or a household pet, urn, we have an awesome responsibility when we are
talking about taking life. I mean we're talking about sacred creatures. We're talking
about, um, you know, creatures that are a part of our world, our environment, and I think
it's an absolutely heavy responsibility that we all share, um, in making this decision and I
think it is something that we do not tread lightly on. Um, but that said, I...I mean there's
millions of years of evolution for purposes of predator/prey relationships and the reality
is we do not have predators. Um, and so we do have a hundred years of experience what
happens to populations. I mean people can show me the data sets on there, if you're
listening, in cases in which,urn, predators were not there, in which prey naturally
controlled their population without starvation, um, or mass defoliation. If people can
show me that case study, I would consider, but I'm not aware of any of those. We have a
lot of data. I myself am not a hunter, urn,but the reality is is that is what now has
replaced, um...uh, predator relationships and these would be professional hunters.
There'd be expert marksmen, and I think, Susan, as you indicated, lot of'em are military
sharpshooters, and so it's not a decision that we take lightly, but I think we also have,uh,
a sacred duty as well to protect our public, and there is a risk, and you know I don't
wanna wait until we have an overpopulation and we have collisions on the highways and
on the interstates. So, urn, it is...it is a tough decision to make, but is one that I think that
we have to make, and it's, uh, a decision we'll continue to monitor, but I....I think we
need to move forward with it,because I think to convey for another work session
suggests that there's not the ambiguity here that I think there is, urn, we do have a
consensus, at least I think we do, and I'd like to move forward with it.
Thomas/Yeah (clears throat) I'll just add that, you know, the Deer Committee in that memo
ended by saying, uh, they suggest Council routinely visit Iowa City's need for deer
population management, and I think that is an important, uh, to keep in mind. I mean
I...as we've been saying, this is not a decision I enjoy making. Um....but, as we've said,
the alternatives.....(laughs) aren't very, uh, appealing either. So, um, and....and it seems
to me the effects are not equally distributed. I think they're....the popula...the deer
population are impacting certain areas more than areas. But that....that impact will just
expand over time if it's not managed. So I....I do support the sharpshooting.
Taylor/I guess I'm going to be the only person on this,the lone wolf on this, because I just...I
just think it's....not a good idea with all the, uh, gun violence issues going, uh, around the
country and....and, uh, issues about that for us to say it's okay for us to have
sharpshooters within our city limits, uh, and I....I truly believe that we contributed to this
issue of the deer roaming inside our city limits, uh,by taking down their natural
environments and....and putting buildings up! And...and pavement, and I have not seen
true data to, uh....say that there are a....a number of accidents related to....to deer. I did
not see that. The ones I did see, you mentioned the highways, that's true, uh, but DOT
kinda has control of that and we can't exactly put sharpshooters out there, uh, on the edge
of the interstate. Urn, I find...myself find, uh, squirrels and raccoons more of a problem,
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uh, causing accidents,people swerving to try to avoid them than...than I've heard about,
uh,the deer incidents. So, uh, I....I would be, especially, uh, moving that quickly into
the November 8th date of applying for it, I....I would be against that.
Throgmorton/Okay. Maz?
Salih/I don't know. This is really a tough topic for me. You know, I guess I started seeing the
deer around my house where I live right now and I guess, uh, Susan Mims and I, we
don't live like far away from each other. I just move there and just for the first time I
been seeing like really, the deer like at evening time, like around maybe 9:00 when I go
out and I will see them start like going around. Um, my husband three days ago, one of
the deer like broke his light on the car, while he was driving, and the deer come across
the street, and um, at the same time you know I just don't like shooting, but at the same
time I don't like also (mumbled)because this could be mistakenly, like (unable to
understand) and also....you know, uh....in addition to like as somebody said, this is for
less like more than....this will be one day the shooting, the sharpshooting,but the arrow
will be taken like long time for them. I kind of really torn on...on this, not like on...on
which one. I like the sharpshooting, if that option....if we have only like two option,
which is like sharpshooting(mumbled)but I also concerning about some people they say
there is another way. Too many, you know, those deer and I....I would love to know,
really I don't have a lot of information about this and I don't wanna really work on this
for this time. I just...wanna....just be silent....until I learn more.
Council updates on assigned boards, commissions and committees:
Throgmorton/Okay, sounds to me like there are at least four, uh, in favor of moving ahead,
Geoff, with considerable regret. Okay! That's the end of the September 27th information
packet, right? Nobody...anybody wanna bring anything else up? Okay, uh, then we're
left with....whatever this last topic is.....Council updates on assigned boards. Rockne,
you've already done yours. Um, let's see, um.....Pauline, you've already done yours
with the (mumbled)basically, or reduction that is.
Taylor/Right, right.
Throgmorton/ ....harm reduction that is. Um, well....let me say a few things cause....(laughs)
because, uh, I didn't have a chance to say this earlier. So the Convention and Visitors
Bureau, uh, board met on September the 20"'. Some of the discussion oriented around the
Cyclocross World Cup and a few other things and I don't know how that went. It...was it
a hopefully a big success?
Fruin/From what I hear they had the biggest crowd they've had up there on Saturday, despite
the....
Mims/Despite the rain? (several talking)
Fruin/Rain and muddy weather.
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Throgmorton/Good, I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. But there was also considerable discussion
and concern about the existing and growing excess capacity in hotel beds within the area.
As you can imagine it's the Convention and Visitors Bureau, so they have a, you know,
they have hotel and motel operators on the board and....the gist of what I heard was
overall, Josh Schamberger was sayin' it looks to him as though the total....hotel/motel
tax revenues are gonna decline, despite the fact that the number of beds is gonna increase,
and it's because of the vacancy rates will increase and the....the, they're havin' to reduce
rents, or, uh, rates (several talking) uh, so the end result is....for the....for the area as a
whole is, uh, a bit of a decline probably in revenue. But not for Iowa City. For Iowa City
it's likely to increase....for reasons havin' to do with Hyde Place and etc., and The
Rise...not The Rise. The Hilton Garden Inn and so on. All right, so there was that, and
then Pauline and I are gonna meet with the President and Vice President of the School
District tomorrow, Janet Godwin and Paul Roesler. What in the afternoon I think, I can't
remember, and I was plannin'....Geoff and I were gonna meet with the Mayor of Cedar
Rapids and the general, uh, and the City Manager of Cedar Rapids but they....had to
cancel out for unexpected reasons, and Johndel....John Lundell told me just a couple
days ago that he's talked with Terry Donahue, couple more times, and Terry's gonna try
to arrange a time for the three of us to have lunch, but....so movin' ahead, maybe, on
that. Anybody else wanna say anything about, uh, this particular work session topic? All
right, if not, I think that means we're done with the work session for tonight.
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