HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-10-16 Transcription Page 1
Council Present: Cole, Mims, Salih, Taylor,Teague, Thomas,Throgmorton
Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe, Andrew, Dilkes, Fruehling, Knoche, Havel, Hightshoe,
Laverman,Nagle-Gamm, Seydell-Johnson, Bockenstedt
Others Present: Stewart,Wu (UISG)
Discuss Expectations for the Transit Study fIP41:
Throgmorton/Okay, we're gonna begin the City's....Iowa City City Council work session for
Tuesday, October the 16`x', 2018. The first topic is to discuss expectations for the transit
study. Geoff, are you gonna say somethin' first or maybe Darian or what...what do you
have in mind?
Fruin/Well, we're really here to answer questions. Hopefully you saw the memo that we
authored in your information packet. Uh,just a quick update—we are putting the final
touches on an RFQ, that's Request for Qualifications, document. Uh, that is bein'
reviewed by the University and by the City of Coralville right now. Once we get their
feedback we'll be able to put that out and then that'll begin the consultant selection
process. Uh, we'll select the consultant, and that consultant will help us, uh, not only,
um,perform the transit study, but also, uh, guide us in the development of the scope of
that, uh, transit, uh, study as well. So, uh, before we get into the....the consultant
selection, I thought it was good that we just take some time tonight to discuss your
expectations, your vision,uh, for Iowa City transit,because ultimately whatever you
express as your vision will guide the scope that we choose and how we go about not only
completing the study but also beginning to anticipate budgetary needs, uh....uh, probably
won't see anything in this coming budget, but if we know that we're going to be shooting
big for major enhancements to the transit system, we kinda have to set that up with this
budget, so that we're in a good position next year to, um...devote some more funding
towards, uh,that service. I'd be happy to give you any specifics from the memo.
Darian's here. She's been the one that's leadin' the RFQ process. We can answer
questions and help guide the discussion,but ultimately we kinda want to hear from you.
Throgmorton/Geoff, I'd like to see, uh, provide an overview of the memo, uh, because a lot of
people watching on TV, they have no idea what's in the memo and probably wouldn't
read it so....I think that would be helpful.
Fruin/ Sure! Well as you know your strategic plan for 2018/2019 has an item specific, uh, to
transit in it. Uh, the exact wording is: "To undertake a comprehensive assessment of the
current public transit system and implement changes to ensure that the service best meets
the needs of the entire community." Uh, this, uh, this has been something that, uh, we
have heard expressed, it, the need expressed by, uh,many different, uh,parts of the
community. It hasn't just been a Council-driven, uh, initiative, but we've heard from
social service agencies, from business organizations, uh, individual employers, uh,
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affordable housing advocates, and community groups and so on that...that this is really
needed, that we're at a point in time where we need to....to look hard at our transit
system. Uh, additionally as you look at all the master plans that we've recently
completed, urn, climate plan, bike plan, parks plan—they all specifically mention how
important transit is to the success of those individual plans. Perhaps most notably in the
climate plan, and one of the major,uh, components of the climate plan that the City has
some influence over is on transportation, and....and in order to really achieve the goals,
pretty ambitious goals in the climate plan, we have to work, uh, to not only boosting the
transit system,but boosting it in a way that are gonna pull people out of automobiles and
into transit, and....and a combination of transit and bike and....and pedestrian uses. Urn,
that, uh.....uh, again is no easy task. In order to accomplish some of the ambitions of that
climate plan, I....I'm not sure that just a route study and a tweaking of a route here and
there is....is going to do it. I think we're.....if you really want to achieve those, uh,
aggressive goals that we've set, you're probably lookin' at some very significant
modifications to the transit service, which of course will come with a price tag, and that
price tag, um....(clears throat) may be sufficient. So when we talk things like Sunday
service and expanded evening hours service, uh, which we've heard a call for....for
several years, uh, that takes....that takes money, but that also makes transit more, urn....
uh, inviting for....for people to choose as their primary mode. So what we've done is
outline,uh, I've outlined about seven or eight bullet points in the memo in terms of what
we're gonna ask the consultant to study, so there's really two parts to your discussion
tonight. Uh, we want you to look at those bullet points in the memo and....and we're
asking you are there anything....is there anything else that you want us to look at. So
among those things that we're....we're asking a consultant to look at: Stronger
coordination with neighboring transit agencies, specifically Coralville and the University
of Iowa Cambus system, and that's, uh, including things like how our routes are planned
and timed, the fares, the pass structure, uh, for each of those entities, transfer policies,
and the use of the downtown interchange. We want to, uh, specifically target some of the
large residential complexes that currently provide private bus service and see if there's
ways that we can better work with those to serve those on the public system. Uh, we
wanna look at the conversion of our existing bus fleet to an all electric fleet, again with
the climate plan in mind. We wanna look at expanding service levels, uh, again that
includes Sunday service and...and evening and night hours. We wanna look at, uh,
possibly changing the fare structure, the fare, uh, the economic model of our transit
system and looking at a zero-fare system and what impact moving to a zero-fare system
would have on ridership. Better connectivity with bike and pedestrians, how do we
configure a transit system so that we can, uh, encourage those modes of transportation as
well. Look at all of our bus stop amenities to see what additional amenities are needed.
And then we want to...to actively be thinking about the impact that autonomous vehicles
will have on transit system and how we need to position our transit system, uh, to evolve
as the entire transportation industry evolves. So again that's a....that's a list of kind of
the special asks that we're making of the consultant. Of course they're gonna do
ridership sur...rider surveys, community surveys, stakeholder interviews. They're gonna
analyze ridership data. They're gonna do all the things that you'd expect, but those were
some extra things that we were interested in. The University and Coralville may have,
uh, specific items that they want us to look at as well. And then finally, uh, and perhaps
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more importantly, uh, it's really for you to establish a vision, and again, in...in order to
met your goals that have been set forth in the climate action plan, I think you have to act
big, uh, and I think you have the community backing to do that. It's not to say it'll be
easy,particularly on the financial side of things. It's gonna take a....a concerted effort to
prioritize financial resources that are....that are scarce, uh, and, urn, that....those
conversations will be difficult, and it'll also probably take a, uh,policy....decision by the
Council to, uh,maybe even shrink the geographic footprint of our transit system. So I...I
kind of mask that in one of my statements here, in the memo, one of our statements,
which was....it talks about the intential....intentional concentration of existing resources.
So as you look at our system now and we've....many of us have had these conversations,
we run buses, try to run buses to about every corner of the community, and ridership
levels vary considerably as you look at those different routes. If we really want to, um...
uh, I think in order to achieve some of our ridership goals,we're probably going to have
to look at shrinking that footprint and running buses in a more targeted fashion in those
areas where we know there is strong demand for ridership. So those are some of the
tougher decisions, but...but I'll read to you the vision statement that....that we put
together, that, uh, we think will help you accomplish the goals of your climate plan.
Again that was kind of our....our starting point. Let's assume that council wants us to
achieve that goal in the climate plan. Here's what we came up with. Iowa City Transit is
a sustainable, reliable, and safe transportation option that welcomes and connects all
riders with economic and community opportunities seven days a week. Iowa City Transit
will double 2018 ridership levels by 2028 through policy and investments that target and
expand our level of service and eliminate barriers to access, potentially including the
elimination of fares. As new buses are procured, Iowa City Transit will begin the
conversion to an all electric fleet. Again, this is a starting point for a conversation that
you may or may not be able to fmish in one evening, uh, but that's the type of vision I
think you are going to have to articulate, if you want to reach, uh, the goals in your
climate plan.
Throgmorton/ Strikes me as a great start and provides ample room for us to discuss and see if we
wanna suggest modifications or direct modifications or anything like that. I have
opinions but I'd like to hear first from any of you about what you think.
Thomas/I....I had one question and that is on the....this kind of summary statement, uh, where
we talk about doubling, uh, 2018 ridership. What.....what is the ridership level now?
Nagle-Gamm/Hi there, Darian Nagle-Gamm, Transportation Services. Let me grab that number
for you. As of fiscal year 2018 we finished the year with 1.5 million rides in Iowa City.
Throgmorton/And that's down a little bit from the previous year, right?
Nagle-Gamin/It's down about, I'd say....4 to 5%.
Throgmorton/ Is that compatible with the rest of the U.S. or cities in the rest of the U.S.?
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Nagle-Gamm/I would say yes. There's currently a trend,transit is trending down, not just in
Iowa City, urn (mumble) metro area. It is trending down nationally. I think there's a few
factors. Urn, one could point to, uh, relatively low and somewhat stable gas prices as of
the last few years. Um, also I think there's a....uh, I would say a blossoming of
alternative transportation modes. I'm thinking of transportation network companies,
those sorts of things. So things are shifting currently,but certainly gas prices, I think that
has been for the trend at least that we've been seeing since, uh, the decreasing trend since
2013. I think you....that can point mostly to gas prices. And in choice to use...single
occupant vehicle or just automobiles versus transit, I should mention.
Throgmorton/Yeah, so anybody have a questions or comments for(both talking)
Cole/The only question that I would have prior to sort of articulating which of the bullet points
(mumbled) I would like to focus on. I know my friend Harry Olmstead has talked a lot
about identifying alternative revenue streams, including the consideration of, um...uh, ads
on the buses. Urn, is that something that would be part of the existing study or would that
be the type of thing that the Council would have to provide further direction on? I...I
haven't made my mind up on it, but I think we should at least consider it.
Nagle-Gamm/It's not currently within the scope but it's certainly something that we could add
to the scope, urn, is to look for alternative revenue streams, or some analysis of what
some might be.
Throgmorton/And if we go to zero-fares, we've gotta be thinking about alternative revenue
streams.
Fruin/My....my, you're absolutely right. Urn, my thought on that is we probably don't need a
consultant to analyze those. The consultant, because of the specialize nature of this type
of study, is probably going to be out of state and there are so many state-specific rules on
what cities can and cannot do when it comes to fees and taxation. So I think if we know
the service improvements that they identify, we can put a cost to that ourselves, or the
consultant can help us put a cost to those numbers and then we can, as staff, figure out the
revenue streams. Ads on buses, uh, that would be simple for us to do, uh, I mean we
could look at policies in other....other transit agencies, because ads are....are fairly
common. And then price that out. I would say that overall that's probably going to be a
very small revenue source, urn, in the grand scheme of things, if you're lookin' at Sunday
service, night service, don't count on advertisements in our market here to....to get us
there.
Salih/How much do we get now from the rider?
Nagle-Gamin/As of FY18, our fare revenues were 1.18 million, so about 120...or uh, about a
million 200,000, approximately.
Salih/Okay and uh, you know zero-fare is awesome but do we plan where we gonna get the 1.5
million from? To make it zero-fare? Even though like(unable to understand) doing a
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study, we could need more buses. We could need like more drivers. More expensive
will come and now we trying to eliminate 1.5, uh, is there a plan for where we can get
that money from?
Nagle-Gamm/I think the first thing that we need to identify besides just the fare,um, the fare
costs that we would loose is the additional cost that we would incur, um, and those are all
great questions. Urn, I'm afraid we don't have the answer right now but that's...um,
that's what we're....we're trying to determine what those costs might be and then to look
for potential revenue sources from that point.
Fruin/I think we've....we've identified some possibilities. We're not really ready to....to bring
those forward, and again it would probably take a couple of budget cycles to get us in a
position to pursue something like that, but you're absolutely right. At the end of the day,
if you eliminate....if you eliminate the fares and you wanna do Sunday service and you
wanna do night service and....and anything else that comes out of the study, it just
becomes increasingly difficult. What we'd like to do in the study is present you with...
with those options, and say if we spent X number of dollars on Sunday service, here is
what the projected impact to ridership would be. Here who is gonna be...presumably
using that service, and you can compare that investment option with a zero-fare
investment option, with a evening option, and you can decide which of any of those you
wanna pursue. Or you could pursue all of`em, urn, the more...layers obviously the more
expensive it is, but we're not here advocating. We're not quite ready to advocate for
zero-fare. Uh, we're not ready to advocate for Sunday service or....or any of the
expanded services. What we...what we're saying is we need to engage in a process that
helps us evaluate each of those options. I'm pretty confident that....if the Council is
ready to prioritize transit, we can come up with some funding to....to make it happen, but
you have to understand that the same dollars that would make that happen would be....
it'd likely be the same dollars that would go towards affordable housing,would go to
parks,would go to bikes, so....I don't.....I don't wanna sit here and tell you it's going to
be an easy process, cause it's not, but....we in the study, I think we'd be....I think we'd
miss an opportunity if we didn't at least evaluate all those options and present you as the
policymakers with....with that data.
•
Salih/Yeah, that sound good to me,just like....I don't wanna see that we getting from say the
affordable housing fund so we can have transit. To me, housing is more needable than
transportations, or something like that. But as you said, it's not for the time for it right
now and we can discuss this later.
Throgmorton/I'd like to say it strikes me as a really bold vision, which I am generally
completely supportive of. I admire the ambition contained in the vision,uh,but I see, uh,
a long....both long-term and short-term components to this vision. With regard to short-
term components, it seems to me that whatever modifications we nee...make, need to
enhance the quality of service curr....that would be provided in the short run, especially
with regard to lower income people, in a way that we've talked about before. We've
gotta mo....modify routes and schedules and all that, and....to enhance service provided
to them. But in the longer run, we...we have an opportunity to kind of really, uh, what's
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the word I want after....make a bold enhancement over time, the....the, in a way that
really helps us transform the trans...uh, transportation system here in Iowa City, and
maybe in the region. Uh, but we....uh, when we think about it in the long run, we have to
be thinking about the uncertainties associated with long run, especially with regard to the
rate at which autonomous vehicles come in to play. You know, is it 20 years in the future
or is it 10? I mean we don't know. There's some uncertainty about that for sure. Uh,
likewise we don't know how quickly very high quality electric buses will come into
service. I think we don't know too much about varying sizes of....of electric buses and
how they could be incorporated into the system over time. Uh, and....we also have an
opportunity to....this is maybe another element that could be included, Geoff, and Darian,
uh, we have an opportunity to also have the consultant consider this, uh, the, uh,
connections with Cedar Rapids through the 380 Express and whether....whatever other
enhancements or transformations, um, accompany it over time. So....so that's my
view, uh, in general, and there might be details that....I would change my mind about, but
that's my general perspective. How bout the rest of ya?
Cole/Maybe I'll jump in and comment. There's essentially three areas that I would really like to
focus on. One I think the zero-fare concept is appealing. Obviously there's a huge
budgetary component to that (mumbled) need to evaluate with a....with a study, but
within that (clears throat) of course the concept of more targeted zero-fare events and
things like that. I know that Harry also has mentioned that as a possible thing that we can
explore. So I hope that we'll evaluate that in the short as well as the long term, in terms
of a zero-fare option. The second thing is, I think of our friends over in Cambus. Now in
some respects it's unfair to compare Cambus to the Unive....to the City of Iowa City.
They have a different rate structure for their employees, um, but that concept they have of
every 15 minutes, urn, what they're able to provide, I think, really leads to that high
usage, and so at least I'd to evaluate, you know, Geoff, you had talked about how we
have the low volume routes in neighborhoods that typically don't use this. I think at least
my thought is the concept is we're trying to really target more effectively the resources to
those that really need and rely upon that transportation. So my second one would be
(mumbled) to assess and study the higher volume and more frequent, umuh, bus
routes. I know, Bruce, you had actually mentioned that your experience in Chicago,
when we had a conversation after you got elected. They don't go into the neighborhoods,
for example. That....that's not something that I was aware of. So those are the sorts.....
and I assume the reason is they wanna have that high volume,more frequent so they can
enhance the service in the more higher dense areas. I'd love to evaluate that. And the
third and final thing would be go big on the environmental piece of it. Obviously there is
an expense to that. I'm hoping obviously we can get the dollar figure on that,but even if
we can't do a total conversion much in the same that we've done with our City fleet to
perhaps test one or two models in the immediate fixture. I think would be a great concept,
so we can get comfort, get the numbers, get the maintenance status. Those at least would
be my three areas that I'd like to focus on.
Throgmorton/How bout the rest of you?
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Thomas/Well I would,um....agree. The zero-fare is a....is an interesting concept and as
Rockne said, I think in a number of ways I would hope we can....test these ideas in terms
of their full scope. You know,may not be ultimately,uh, affordable to do the entire city
as a zero-fare, but....but I think as....as Rockne was mentioning, there may be areas that
really lend themselves to the zero-fare concept. Um, you know in addition to the...the
....the zero-fare, uh, there are benefits to not having to collect fares on buses. They move
faster, uh, they're....they're obviously more equitable with the zero-fare, and urn, you
know, there's....there's faster service. It....it promotes better service not to have to
collect the fares at the same time that, uh, the bus drivers are riding. Urn, I too am
interested in...in looking at how we can, you know, the network, kind of in the same way
the bicycle master plan seemed to kind of create tiers of service. You know we, you
know, that identify where we do get...would get the most increase in ridership and, you
know, to the degree we can, uh, mimic Cambus, you know, those....those headways are
critical. You know the headways have to be frequent enough that people decide...I'm just
takin' the bus! (laughs) You know it's....it's reliable enough, it's frequent enough to
make it work (both talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, likewise the...the quality of the bus stops really matters. You don't wanna
be standing out in the snow, you know (both talking) all that in wintertime.
Thomas/Yeah, I....to build on that, Jim, I think it's really important to think about with transit
that every bus ride begins and ends with some degree of walking or bicycling. So it's not
something isolated. You really need to, again, it....it has to, if we're really serious about
trying to encourage people to take transit, the experience has to be comfortable. It has to
be safe. It has to be enjoyable. Um, because it's not most likely in Iowa City going to be
as efficient timewise. You know(laughs) we can....hope....hopefully get it to be
competitive, um,but with some limited circumstances, I would think it may not be able to
compete merely in terms of the serv...time service aspects,uh, although I think there are
opportunities near the...the core of Iowa City to...to effectively, um, compete with...with,
urn, using the automobile. Um....the other thing I'd wanna emphasize is....is using the
transit study as a way of thinking about land use policy,because I think that is, uh,
something, you know, we....we've done a number of master plans and, you know, there's
a focus to them, which is almost necessary, but I don't want us to forget that
transportation is infinitely tied to land use. It can be a land use tool, you know, where
those....where we provide that better service will incentive, you know, our...the
realization of some of our, urn, development, uh, policies. So....so where we....where
we incentive ridership, you know, that has a land use implication. And where we dis-
incentive it, it has a land use implication too. So it....it's very important I think to...to try
to link the two together, urn, you know, we could be looking at corridor studies in terms
of development, things of that sort, that would, um....you know,take advantage of what
transit will do in terms of,uh, increasing, you know, the desire to live in certain parts of
Iowa City. Uh, one....one word I would add to the, kind of the, um.....summary
statement might be Iowa City transit is a sustainable,reliable, equitable, and safe
transportation option,just to make sure we're...uh...upfront and, you know, incorporate
the idea of equitability and to...to the, uh, planning that we're embarking on here.
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Throgmorton/Sounds like a reasonable thing to me. Darian,just a point of clarification, am I
right in remembering that Cambus does not, uh, charge fares because students pay for
Cambus in fees.
Nagle-Ganun/That is correct.
Throgmorton/Yeah, that's what I thought.
Fruin/We also do have one zero-fare route, correct?
Nagle-Gamm/We do, the downtown shuttle..is our zero-fare route, mostly geared, uh, towards
college students. And it stays in the near-downtown area.
Throgmorton/Yeah, does...is that both....we used to have a south downtown shuttle and a north
shuttle. Is it the same one?
Nagle-Gamin/Just one now.
Throgmorton/Just one.
Nagle-Gamm/Yep!
Throgmorton/Okay. It's pretty heavily used on the south part,right?
Nagle-Gamm/Yes, it is. It's very popular.
Throgmorton/And less so in the northern part of it. In the Northside. Yeah.
Nagle-Gamin/Very popular route!
Salih/I just wanna say that, you know, for the people who gonna do the study, I hope, you know,
to include and bring the voice of all the resident of Iowa City from students' perspective
to other people in the community, low income people in the community, and so...just
bring all the voice from all the people,bring the people from difference, you know,
perspective on the table(unable to understand) leave some people out,behind on this.
Because it...it's really important to have the perspective of the low income people who
will use Sunday transportations or they work on Sundays, or students or elderly people,
and all those people. I hope those voice will be included on the....
Throgmorton/ Sure!
Salih/Yeah.
Mims/Without getting into the nitty gritty, I....um, I guess I look at this at this stage a little bit
differently maybe than....than some of my fellow Council Members, but in terms of the
memo itself and the approach, um, I like it. I'm.....I.....I tend to be a cautious person so
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I'm concerned about the bold aspect (laughs) of that vision statement. Urn, I'm
concerned that people don't....I'm concerned that people read that and think that....by
golly this is gonna be done and there's gonna be Sunday service and there's gonna be,
you know, 6:00 A.M. to 2:00 A.M. service and....and so I do, I get concerned that people
read that bold vision and...take it as a concrete statement that this is gonna be done, and I
think, urn, as Geoff has said repeatedly, and I think we have to keep remembering, is
there's gonna be a lot of competition for these dollars. And so I don't have a problem
with starting here, and....and having this as our goal and what...what we want to try to
achieve,um,but I think we all have to just keep reminding ourselves that we, in all
likelihood unless, um, a lot of money falls out of the sky, we're gonna have some very,
very difficult decisions in terms of prioritizing. Um, and one thing I'm sure that they will
do, um, but I would just point it out. When we've talked a lot about the, urn, later night
services and stuff; I would hope that some of our larger employers that are running
particularly like running second shift operations, um, are a big part...or are a part of(both
talking)
Throgmorton/ Could be!
Mims/ ..um, the...the groups that we talk to in terms of not just the companies but the employees
that work there, um, there's....I think there's some possibilities. I hope that we also stay
creative, um, as part of this, where in some areas likely with some of those employers,
maybe van pools versus fixed bus routes are just as effective and maybe much more
efficient, not only financially,but maybe more efficient for the employees, so..you know,
I hope we're...we try to be creative with those things as well as we're looking at this
whole transportation piece. So....
Salih/I agree with Susan. Really we have to also reach out to businesses because, you know, I
remember I talk to the Iowa City/Coralville Convention....(unable to understand) Bureau
or somethin' and they told me that they are thinking to send a shuttle or a bus to West
Branch, so it can bring worker on Sunday from there,because you know they couldn't,
like all the employees that work Sunday, they cannot make it because there is no
transportations and this is would be good to, you know, to bring the vision of employer
too because they....they will know if the people,the employees are struggling or not.
This is...this is something also good and....but I think the goal that the whole concept of
just this study is supposed to be those(unable to understand) we want to study if we can
do something transportation,we wanna study if we can do like evening routes, we wanna
study for can do all this. I think this is the whole concept,that's why we doing this, and
after we come out from the study we can decide which one we can do it or not, which one
we can (mumbled) yeah.
Taylor/ I agree with that, cause I think, uh, the priority in...in the statement, I thought, was
identifying the steps needed and providing expanding service levels, uh, whatever the
need is found to be, and I think that the original intent in hiring a consultant was to help
us find what that,uh, need is going to be. Uh, I think we have a good idea of what that
would be. Uh, I....I do like the idea of....of having ads, uh, on...on the buses. Uh, of
course,unlike something like Superbowl commercials that(laughs) generate a lot of
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revenue, uh,but we could maybe look into that and see what others charge and what they
get, what their revenue is, and that might help us with some financial decisions also. So
I...I do like that idea. Also maybe in lines of some of the, urn, employers that have the
need for Sunday service, perhaps working with them on....on, uh, providing transit
passes or something for their employees that...that need to utilize that.
Throgmorton/Yeah, creativity currently is going to be required with regard to revenue sources.
Steward I think overall,urn, I....I think it's going in a good direction, urn,that at least on the
student side, urn, looking at fares, urn, increasing schedules—especially those evening,
nights, urn, that you have a lot of students that, urn, are potentially studying, urn, on
campus and need to get off campus, and there's that safety element. So, urn....that part,
and looking at that, urn, frequency like was mentioned, routes. Urn, one thing, urn, I'm
not exactly sure if it....it exactly entails into the study,but urn, looking at potentially, urn,
the use of University I.D.s,um, that if students can tie that to the University bill, urn, that
would be an easy way to get more students involved. I don't know the complexities
about that, but I think that's something to potentially look at. Um, I also would agree
with John about land use, urn, that generally speaking, um...uh, that land use is very much
tied to transportation, that, uh, one of the models that I think is really interesting is
(mumbled) classic example of bus rapid transit. Urn, where it's very efficient in terms of
people getting on and getting off, and um, they use the land use, uh, as a component.
Obviously that's separate bike lanes, which is kind of hard....or not bike lanes,bus lanes,
which is kind of hard to do in like Iowa City,but um, I think using that as a model would
be an interesting way to look at things. Urn....and....and additionally I think, uh, one
thing, um, that a lot of students are concerned with is the, uh, Bongo application...the app
that....that hasn't been working. I know it...part of the reason is because of construction,
that there's been a delay, urn, but just making sure that's in use, and I'm not sure if that's
a smaller thing than....than(mumbled) but I think I've heard that quite a bit from
students.
Throgmorton/Bruce?
Teague/In the....um.....in the write up I really appreciated, urn, thinkin' big. Urn, because I
think we do need to look at, urn, the things in our climate goal, urn, to make sure that
we're encountering all of that. When we're doin' the research we can always titrate back,
uh, to what is actually, um, a financial, you know, fiscal thing that we can do. What I
will say is, um,when we're talkin' about the private bus services in the community, I
think it's great to, urn, talk to them as well. Urn, Coralville I understand, as well as the
University, hasn't, um, really made a....a total commitment to be a part of this study, um,
but that is in the works of gettin' something in writing. Urn, I wanna also encourage us to
look at SEATS,urn, to see, you know, their involvement. I think when I spoke to Susan,
potentially there is, urn, requirements that, urn, if we go....with night services and urn,
Sunday services, then SEATS will also have to provide it. There is other communities,
um, or there's other, um....communities that actually have paratransit, city transit, school
transit within their one system, and so I would hope that that could be a part of this study,
um,just to see if there's, urn, any way to collaborate, and again, I think, urn, any time
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you're going to have frequent bus services, urn,where you don't have to watch your
watch, you know, and go out 45....every 45 minutes or an hour, urn, and you know
somethin' is gonna be corrin' every 15 minutes, that's gonna really encourage people to
get out and ride the bus. Urn.....I know that, uh, Maz had talked about, uh, makin' sure
that all voices are, you know,reached out to, because we're talkin', uh, potentially
of....at least from my experience if it's really going to work effectively, you're gonna be
goin' to main roads mainly. Um, that's gonna....it's gonna come out of the
neighborhoods and so, uh, there's gonna be people affected, and so if they're at the table
and they just kind of....hear what....hear what's goin' on, then they wouldn't mind not
havin' a bus route, you know, two doors down from them and they have to walk two
blocks or three blocks. So I would encourage, urn, you know,just some open meetings
with people in the community. Urn, the zero-fare, I love the idea, um, I think, um, it'd
be, um....a hard, uh, financial piece to figure out, but I do think that we can, uh, figure it
out, and it sounds like, you know, staff has some thoughts and so I'm open to hearin'
those, but overall I'm, uh, very happy to hear this is underway. A little discouraged by
the timeframe, um, but in order to do it right, it's gonna take time, and so I....I, you
know, the sacrifice would be worth it. I don't know if there's anything that we can do in
the interim,um, for...you know,urn, either Sunday services or....or fixed routes, I don't
know,but um....I guess for this I'm really encouraged that it's under...you know, it'll be
underway.
Mims/I would just add one other thing. Um, Bruce, I'm glad you mentioned it and that's the
schools. Um, I would hope that also as part of those stakeholders we would really make
sure that we're talking, um,to the schools, and I know a few years ago we had a route
that we....we simply changed the direction in terms of I think when it....like when it left
City High instead of going downtown and having to change, it went out through the
neighborhoods first so kids could get home sooner and those sorts of things. So, urn, and
particularly if the School District is changing boundaries, urn, if we have....students in
certain areas that are going to school further away from their neighborhoods, trying to
take that into account potentially as we're looking at those routes.
Stewart/I have a quick question. Urn, is North....since North Liberty's growing and expanding,
is there gonna be involvement with the North Liberty government(several talking)
Fruin/They've declined at this point.
Stewart/Okay!
Cole/Geoff, to follow up on what Bruce had said about the unified system, I know....I think that
was Ames I think that you had mentioned. Are there any limitations in terms of, and
maybe this should just be something we'd defer later, but in terms of using SEATS, uh,
to allow non-disabled customers to use that or to share the resources, in terms of like a
Sunday service, or is that usually kept totally separate?
Fruin/Ur....I.....I don't know. I'd have to....we'd have to look into that a little bit more (both
talking)
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Cole/Because along with what Bruce was saying in terms of these are obviously super-complex
issues in terms of multiple jurisdictions and these sorts of things,but I think in terms of as
we move forward, Bruce is right—we want to do it right. It's gonna take time, but I
would hope that we, if there are some interim things that come up, that we could evaluate
those, sort of moving forward. You know, especially like Sunday service is a good point.
Fruin/Yeah,the challenge with interim changes to our schedule is....is one there's....there's a
lot more to it than just puttin' some more buses out there. We've gotta hire more staff,
we've gotta have supervisors,you gotta have mechanics on duty. There's a lot of build-
up, um, to....to begin service say on Sunday. Um, and the other thing is is you're....
you're then providing a service and you don't know if it's going to be sustainable long-
term and so the....the study may come back and tell you that this is really, as much as we
wanna do Sunday service, here's the projected ridership and here's the cost and you may
not see value in that. (several talking) We'd like to hope we see value in that, but you
might be left with a situation in which the numbers clearly don't make sense. That
money could better be used to help the system in some other way, yet you do have a
small group of people that have become dependent on that service and then you have to
pull it back, and that's a very tough thing to do. That's why we're hesitant to do that,
for...for really those two reasons.
Throgmorton/I'm guessin' you could say something similar with regard to electric buses. They
require different kinds of repair and maintenance than ordinary buses do, and they would
require a different recharge...recharging and refueling kind of system. So we'd have to
be thinking about a transition rather than kind of suddenly leaping out and buying...we
have, how many buses now....do we have?
Nagle-Gamm/About 28.
Throgmorton/(both talking) 28, so instead of buying 28 buses, right? We wouldn't do that.
We'd buy maybe seven probably at the most and then next time around buy another
seven or some....I'm just throwin' a number out there. Doin', uh....(both talking)
Fruin/You wanna talk about electric buses?
Nagle-Gamm/Sure,yeah. No, I think....I think those are wise comments. Um, in fact we were
just talking about a electric vehicle transition plan today, and that's something we're
hoping the consultant can help us,um, outline because, you know, if we...if a electric bus
arrived in Iowa City for use by our,uh, staff tomorrow, we would need staff trained on
how to, um, driving it. We should be able to cover that within 24 hours I would say,but
in terms of, urn, op....operating it from a mechanical standpoint. We'd have to identify
charging station locations. We currently don't have the facility, urn, to really work on
electric buses, nor do we have the staffing, um, and the education that we'd need because
they're a different....they're a different beast quite frankly, but we....we would like to
plan to get there, and we're hoping the consultant can really help us build that plan, and
help us understand what our needs are. Another thing we have to take into consideration
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is, urn, the electric vehicle fleets that are being built today,urn, tend to be taller than our
buses. An advantage that we have to the buses that we operate with today(mumbled) is
that they are relatively short and this helps us get under the railroad bridge that's on Iowa
Avenue, urn, adjacent to the EPB building. Urn, so...and that's a major thoroughfare for
our transit. Urn, buses from all the systems, urn, from all three systems. So something
we're hoping to have the consultant, urn, help us look to is what would we need to
change from a route perspective, um, if we do want to transition to EV buses in terms of
staffing, in terms of, um, you know, cost differential, route, urn,how would we have to
compensate and....and move our routes, um,potentially looking at evaluating our
interchange location. There's a lot involved, urn, as you said, in....in the EV buses it's
not simply a plug and play, let's just swap out the vehicles. So....but we're hopin' to get,
urn, some good steps and a good transition plan outlined.
Throgmorton/As I think (mumbled) Darian and Geoff both know and Ashley surely does, the
Mayor's Climate Summit that was held in San Francisco about a month or thereabouts
ago had a major initiative involving electric buses, uh, substantial amount of funding was
discussed and, uh, I don't remember any details about it, but I think I shared some
information with y'all about it. So, maybe there's something in that that we could take
advantage of.
Fruin/The other thing I'll mention with....with bus replacement is we....we rely on federal
funding for a good portion of our, um, buses, and....and we really have to continue with
that model. Um, so....in terms of replacement schedule, I don't ever see it bein'
something where we could flip a switch and replace a third of our fleet or.....or two-
thirds of our fleet with one round of purchases. We did just have a major purchase this
past year, um, because we....we had several stack up, but the....the replacement cycle for
a bus is....l5, 20?
Nagle-Gamin/Yeah, so the buses we just replaced with the new buses, with the very nice pain
theme, um, that...those were 20 years old. Those are from 1997. So...um, it does take
some time. There's a....there's a stack ranking that the DOT holds, urn, of every transit
vehicle in the state, and when your number floats to the top, as they....as the State
receives money, then they start allocating that out and they do it to be fair,they do it ba...
based on a stack ranking and that's age, condition, things like that. So we don't have as
much flexibility in acquiring fleet as we would like because the costs are simply so high
and we really rely on that federal funding and State funding to....to make that happen.
But having that transition plan will help us so that we can be ready and we know the steps
that we need to take in order to move to electric.
Taylor/ So, Geoff, I had a question on...on those lines. We recently saw the plans for the new
transit facility over there off of Gilbert and across from Terry Trueblood. Um, would...
would we be able to still include in those plans, uh, facilities for electric vehicles?
Fruin/Yeah.
Taylor/Is it too late to do that or we'd be able to add that (both talking)
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Fruin/ ...really able to (both talking) facility yet. It's more of just a concept or a massing study
out there, so we're....we're confident the building would fit and then, uh, once we saw
that opportunity we would get into a design and absolutely, we would (both talking)
Taylor/ ....probably consider that,yeah.
Teague/Geoff, I did hear you say, urn, interim service, it would be challenging to figure out that,
urn, on various levels. Urn, my thought would be....since we don't have Sunday services
currently,we really, you know, the study could be a little vague in data, urn, I wonder if
there wasn't a way to do fixed routes just for even the workin' individuals. Um....you
know, and...but that's just an idea or a thought that I just throw out there.
Fruin/Yeah,the....the fixed,to do the fixed route then triggers SEATS service as well. Urn.....
we just have to...we have to build that for ya, what does that mean in terms of....hiring
new drivers,um, shifting or hiring new supervisory staff, around to,um....we'd have to
really map that out to give you an idea of what it would take,but....it's gonna be...it....
it's a lot of infrastructure, particularly labor infrastructure,to get a bus on the road.
Teague/And...and I guess ultimately...I understand that,urn, it was mentioned that we may have
to sacrifice Sunday service. I guess I wouldn't be willing, um,to really....of course
you'll come back with several options, but I....I would, I think it'd be very, um, wise that
we figure out a solution for Sunday service, and even if we don't do it now, I think I
would be okay sacrificin' anything in the interim, as long as we're being very aggressive,
urn, through this study.
Salih/I guess...I ask about this later and if you give us some number if we can provide Sunday
transportation right now,before the study, and with the para-SEATS. I guess, I don't
remember the number,but I think you give us already a number when I ask for it to be
done immediately before the study.
Fruin/Yeah(both talking)
Salih/ ...numbers (unable to understand) about this before.
Cole/I think it was about a million dollars,wasn't it, Geoff?
Fruin/Pardon?
Cole/Was it about a million per year?
Fruin/I wouldn't be surprised(several talking)that high, yeah.
Throgmorton/Well you can provide us with some information about that, Geoff.
Fruin/Yeah, I can see what we supplied you a year ago (both talking)
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Salih/ ....us when I ask for it. I remember he did give it when I ask for it. I don't know, no one
was willing(unable to understand)but you can do it again!
Thomas/Would....would this study, you know I kinda view this as....in....in the big picture
what we're talking fundamentally about is access and opportunity, as it relates to
mobility, and transit is one....potential means of providing access and opportunity. If we
are...were to find that, uh, Sunday service just, the cost was....was too much, at least on a
citywide basis,um, I would imagine we might wanna...we could look at....at Sunday
service on a more limited scope or possibly alternatives to transit as a Sunday service.
The idea of vouchers or some....what other options if any are there for...providing people
with access and opportunity on Sundays if...if a private automobile is not an, you know,
an option for them? Um....
Nagle-Gamm/Well I think one if you're asking the question now, or I'm not sure if you're
asking for it to be included in the study,but I would say one that comes to mind that we
actually have included in the draft scope for the study is,um, to evaluate ways we might
be able to partner with transportation network companies or cab companies.
Thomas/Yeah.
Nagle-Gamm/And that could be potentially something we could do. We could evaluate in the
interim that would not require such a significant capital investment,um, in terms of
staffing and additional equipment,but that could be something that we could evaluate in
the interim.
Thomas/Yeah. That's exactly what(both talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, we've had some discussion about that over the past several years, and this
strikes me as being a very good idea.
Cole/I would agree.
Sahli/Hey,John, did you mean like while they doing the study or you mean now?
Thomas/What's that?
Salih/Do you mean like evaluate Sunday transportation like while they doing the study or now?
(several talking) Or immediately?
Thomas/As part of the study,but I mean if any of these things can be peeled off(laughs) you
know it would be, uh, I mean the TNC wouldn't....doesn't have all that infrastructure
that Geoff has been describing.
Salih/Yeah, I just...wanna make sure if you wanna do it now would be great.
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Thomas/Yeah(laughs)
Salih/We have three people interesting. Maybe we gonna get the four! (laughs) I just
checking! (laughs)
Thomas/Yeah.
Throgmorton/Well we need....we would need to know, have some cost estimates and we're
deeply into the budget year already, so suddenly increasing the amount of expenditures
during the budget year can create big difficulties. So.....we need to be thinking about
that as well.
Salih/Yeah, I understand,but you know I really presented early in the beginning of the year,
beginning of the budget, but it wasn't like a lot of interest, but urn, I'm glad that some
people now try to think about it, maybe....even if we didn't do it through the budget early
in the year, at least I see some interest now. That make me happy!
Thomas/If....if the study lends itself to understanding the demand side...for access, I think
then...maybe at that point there might be an opportunity to explore....or test, you know,
different ways of..addressing that need for access once we understand the demand side
better.
Taylor/I think that'd be an excellent way to find out what the true need is. What....what the
ridership is out there. Get the numbers!
Throgmorton/Okay, it seems to me you've gotten a lot of good feedback here, Geoff, and
Darian, and I'm sure you'll be able to incorporate it into the....revised draft RFQ, is that
what it would be? Yeah, and thanks for puttin' it together, I mean even this briefing has
been very helpful. I wanna make one tiny suggestion that is,has to do with language
(laughs) On the, what I take to be a very bold vision statement, which I embrace, all
right, it starts "Iowa City Transit is a sustainable...." Is. But everything else is in the
future tense. So that just doesn't make any sense. How bout"Iowa City Transit will be a
sustainable,reliable, equitable, and safe...." and so on? Then everything's in the future
tense.
Fruin/Very good!
Throgmorton/Okay. Anything else? Great, good discussion. Thank you, Darian. Thanks,
Geoff.
Fruin/Real quick,the next step on this will be....we'll, as a staff, we'll issue the RFQ. We'll,
uh, go through that process with Coralville and the University, and then that contract will
ultimately come back to you for final approval. So you will see a final scope of study
before we start the process.
Salih/Great!
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Clarification of Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/Okay! Let's move on to clarification of agenda items.
Salih/Okay....I guess I been(mumbled)
Throgmorton/I wanna just begin with the late handout. Geoff,there was a, y'all probably saw it
in late handout,there was an email from Terry Miller Chait and a couple other members
of the Idyllwild Boar....Board of Directors concerning recent high water and implications
for Idyllwild and so on. And,uh, I...talked with Geoff about it, and I think Ron's gonna
address that right now. Maybe Geoff has something else to say.
Knoche/Sure. Um,just to kind of give a flood update of where we're at right now. Uh,Ron
Knoche, Public Works Director. Urn, you know,the....the latest, uh, you know,where
we're at today, luckily,the rain events have....have all passed us. We're in a dry spell.
Urn,the Corps is gonna hold the reservoir at 12,000 CFS. Uh, which ultimately ends up
bein' about 12,500 at the outflow structure because of the elevation. Um, the reservoir
will peak,um, overnight,uh, 17t1, 18th. So about midnight is kind of the way their graph
shows it right now. Um, and the reservoir'll peak at 710.9 elevation. So about a foot 1.1
feet below the top of the spillway. So, um, we're in good shape, as....as we're lookin' at
there. That 12,000 CFS,they'll hold that....as long as the forecast shows right now until
the reservoir starts droppin' a foot a day, and when it starts droppin' a foot a day,they'll
start pullin' back...or dialin' down on the outflow to keep the sloughing from occurring
on the banks of the....of the reservoir itself. So, um, we're....um,to the point right now
where, uh, things look very good. Um,you know,the....the letter that we had received
from Idyllwild, um,refers back to an event that occurred about a....a week and a half
ago. Um, at that time we weren't looking so well. Um, that....that forecast that we had,
urn, for that Friday/Saturday event,um, we were, the Corps was projecting at that point in
rime that they were going to be at 20,000 CFS,um, at the end of their forecast period.
Um,they were holding the....the reservoir at 10,000 outflow at that point in time, and
they were looking at starting to ramp up to the point where we were going to be at 20,00
CFS coming,um, down....down the river. Urn, so, uh,with that, um, on that Friday night
event, they were holding at 10,000 CFS. There was some forecast of, urn, large rain
events occurring. Um, so there was three to four inches of rain that occurred that
evening,um,which then,um, increase the flow to about 16,000,uh, 100 at...at the Iowa
City Burlington Street gauge. Um,that's because of Clear Creek, Rapid Creek,the other
tributaries that come in below the reservoir, um, outlet structure were increasing the
flows at that point in time. Um,we....we have a....a flood information sheet that we
work off as far as what elevations are kind of action elevations for us. Um, you know,
ev...even at that, uh, 16,000 CFS, that's about 23 foot roughly at the....at the Burlington
Street res...or the Burlington Street gauge. Um, you know, we're....we're still not to a
point where we're....there....there's a lot of concern, um, for us....in....in the
community. Um, you know the information that we have here, Idyllwild(mumbled)the
low point that we have identified in their neighborhood,urn, on Idyllwild Drive is about,
uh, 26 'h,uh, gauge elevation. So there was three and a half foot or so that the river
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would have been below their low point in their neighborhood. Urn, and I think, uh, you
know, the....the thing that they start off is they talk about imminent threat. You know, at
the point in time when....when we were, you know, in that, we....we didn't view that
there was an imminent threat of their neighborhood. Obviously going, you know, not...
going into the night we had no idea what the rain event was going to bring, urn, but you
know,but it did bring the river flows up to 16,000 CFS, you know, over...over that time
period. Urn, we....we did have conversations, urn, you know, throughout the weekend
and into the beginning of the week, uh, with them to, urn, you know, address, urn, the
idea of HESCOs, to address the idea of pumps. Urn, there was, urn, communication that
did go back to them with those things and....and I think, you know, the....the (mumbled)
for us right now is obviously we do need to have a better line of communication with the
neighborhood and I think it's, you know, we're....we're in a unique situation. This is the
first, uh, event that we've had where, urn, their protection system that they've
implemented themselves has....has really, you know, gone into action as far as an event
goes. Um, they're also in a situation where they've had some turnover in their board, so
the folks that,urn, implemented that...that ac...you know, that plan,urn, no longer sit on
the board, so there's some transfer of information that's occurring there, as well as
transferring of information that's occurring,urn, for us locally, uh, and then also with the
Corps of Engineers. The, uh, the current hydrologist at the Corps is...is also taken over
from the gentleman who was here in 2008. So, you know, we're all in a learning process
as we move forward on this. Um....the....you know, as....as we look at the peak, uh, so
that peak at the....at the Burlington Street gauge, the 16,000, was 23.23 feet, urn, which
would be the seventh highest crest of the Iowa River, all time. You know, so you know it
was...it's an event that obviously, you know, is an event to be, um, aware of, urn, but I
don't think at the time when we were going into the evening that that's where the forecast
would have been, uh, and where we would have been into an action item,uh, for their
neighborhood.
Fruin/ If I can just reiterate or add a couple of things. One, the letter claims that there was no
communication. That's factually inaccurate. There was communication, urn, but to say
that communication could (mumbled) is....is accurate and I think this is an opportunity
for us to reach back out to the neighborhood and...and talk to them. As Ron mentioned,
there was probably a level of concern that they had that we didn't share and that probably
led to some, uh, anxiousness on their part. Uh, they did....this was the first test of the
private flood system that they....that they built and....and one thing that, at least in our
opinion from....from watching from outside of the neighborhood is, uh, I'm....I'm not
sure that they took the...some of the steps they took may have actually put them at more
risk than,urn, than if they were to take....if they didn't take any of the actions. So,
what...what it really showed to us is that we need to get on the same page with them as,
uh, in terns of their flood plans and when they're triggering things, like closing their
gates or bringing in pump stations, uh, because that not only impacts their neighborhood,
but it impacts the...the surrounding area around Idyllwild too and we've got some
concerns with...with, um,how those situations were handled. So, um,we'll....we'll....
we'll build on this, we'll reach out to them, you know, we're already in a process of
working through a storm water project with them. We had a very, I think, positive public
meeting with them a week or two ago, uh, on our diversion project and where we talked
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about,uh,the pump station that they're interested in securing. So, urn, I....I think we are
building on a....a positive relationship here, but you know, again I....I just....I disagree
with the characterization in the...in the letter that there was no communication because
that was not the facts.
Throgmorton/I'd like to say I completely understand their anxiety, especially at that particular
moment. Uh,but as you said, Geoff, we really need to reach out to them, work through
whatever the complications and uncertainties were that they were experiencing, try to fix
whatever that communication problem was, so we'll be able to do better next time, cause
there will be a next time.
Cole/Geoff,how much, uh, cooperation has there been with the University of Iowa and the
residents? Do we know that? I assume that there's been,the University's been a part of
that? Are you aware of any communication they've had with the University, cause
obviously they're a big stakeholder down there too?
Fruin/With just flood response in general?
Cole/Well yeah, and I mean I assume that the University of Iowa would have an interest in
terms of how Idyllwild is handling their....flood situation, or not. Even though they're
downstream (both talking)
Fruin/ ...thoughts on that? I'm not sure it impacts the University.
Knoche/Yeah, I don't think there's a...a large impact there in regards to (both talking)the flood,
um, mitigation project that they've put in place really doesn't have an overall impact on
the river elevations themselves.
Cole/Okay.
Knoche/Um, so I....I don't know how much outreach there's been with the University,uh,
flood, you know, flood group on that.
Taylor/I was going to say that I think communication with them is extremely important, and I
know you have been communicating with them,uh,regarding the development north of
them off of Dubuque Street,the Forest View area, cause I think that's going to become
even increasingly more important with any sort of storm water diversion, and I know
you've got some plans in there but keep them posted on that,just to alleviate any fears
they have.
Fruin/Yeah, and you actually have an item on your consent calendar related to that project,uh,
Ron and Jason, and,uh, I had a meeting,uh,this afternoon to review that project. It
seems like we'll be able to bring some plans and specs to ya this winter so that we are in
a position to pursue that project next year and,uh, we think that the neighborhood's, you
know, gonna be fully behind it, so um,we'll meet with 'em and....we'll....we'll clear the •
air so to speak.
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Taylor/Good!
Throgmorton/Were you referring to the email from James White about alleged"tunnel?"
Fruin/Uh, well that is....that's on the correspondence, but your,um,nope! It's not on the....we
have....
Throgmorton/Item 9 (both talking)
Fruin/ ....pulled the Idyllwild item.
Throgmorton/Yeah, what I was referring to is Item 9h, which is an email (both talking) White...
who lives on Taft.
Fruin/We had an amendment to the,uh, contract. We must(both talking)
Knoche/ ...it'll be on the next(both talking)
Froin/ ...have pulled that for your next agenda.
Throgmorton/Okay.
Fruin/It's....it's consent item but....point bein' that we're movin' forward on that.....particular
project.
Knoche/And as a part of that, as a part of that diversion project,uh, we will bid,uh,the pump
station as an alternate to that project, so the...so the pump project that they referred to in
their letter is included as an alternate and that will be included as an alternate in that bid
package plan.
Throgmorton/Make sure they know!
Fruin/That's a commitment we made to them a year or so ago.
Throgmorton/Okay, any other questions of Ron or Geoff about this? Okay, any other questions
about agenda items?
Cole/Jim, I have a question about 8j, correspondence from Martha Wickert, and this may be
better for discussion on pending work session topics. Urn, you know when we passed
these new restrictions,urn, was it last fall,urn, we sort of identified this as sort of a
living,breathing change to a lot of our rental regulations. Urn, I think you know, Susan,
you identified it as sort of a living document and I think we all sort of agree with that,but
by the same token, at least sort of what I felt, we also didn't want to immediately change
policy based upon the first person who ran into a problem with,urn, a new reg that we
had in relation to rental units,but this strikes me as something that at least I would like to
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explore, urn, this question of....just for the public, what do we do with single-family
units. Right now we're requiring a permanent separation for those single-family homes,
if you're running...if you're administering it as a duplex. The intent would appear to be
to prevent over-occupancy, at least as I see it, in those units. I think that's a valid
concern. But then I go back to what Martha had talked about, which is, um, you know,
really possibly prevent reconversion to a single-family home in the future, if there's a big
expensive change that they would have to make. It's a complicated issue. She identifies,
at least in page two is maybe...maybe some criteria that we could work with in terms of a
possible grandfatheririg in older properties. Um, this obviously isn't something that we
could spur-of-the-moment decide here, um, but.....I would at least like to further explore
that or maybe get your comments now, Geoff,just for purposes of a possible targeted
work session, cause (mumbled) staff has said well if there needs to be a change it would
have to come at the Council level.
Fruin/ Yeah, it's, uh, Stan's gonna give you a little more background on....on this and, uh, you
know we wouldn't have brought that code change to you if we didn't think (both talking)
Cole/Yeah.
Fruin/ ...issue was a problem and....and it could be a loophole that could be exploited but....Stan
can walk you through that.
Laverman/Right. Hi, Stan Laverman, Senior Housing Inspector. Yeah, and obviously we
sympathize with what she's trying to go through. Um, the problem is is that if you create
a loophole for her in that situation, um, it opens that up for a lot of people that, you know,
specifically addresses what we're looking to eliminate, and we're not asking her to make
a complete permanent change. There's ways to encapsulate, urn, the pocket doors that
we're talking about to, uh, create that physical separation while preserving it. So, um,
additionally there's...there's concerns about, uh, flipping back and forth,being used as a
single-family one year versus a....a duplex another year. It's actually not allowed under
our code. So we need to be a little more clear on that as we communicate that
information to her, because as you convert to a single-family, to go back to the duplex
there's higher standards, higher separation to do that the next year, so....uh, there's some
communication that needs to happen there.
Throgmorton/ So are...are you gonna reach out to Martha?
Laverman/We'll reach out to her again, yes. (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...try to work through those concerns? I thought she raised several completely
legitimate concerns.
Laverman/Right.
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Throgmorton/Uh, so if there's a way to resolve most of'em that'd be great. I'm also
wondering, is there an appeal process for, you know, like Board of Adjustment or
whatever for....topics like this?
Dilkes/I suppose if she asked for a rental permit and we denied, it would, um....probably go to
the Board of Appeals. (several talking)
Throgmorton/Board of Appeals.
Dilkes/But their....their scope is very technical in nature (several talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, that's what I was thinkin(both talking)
Dilkes/They're not gonna change the code to satisfy that. I don't think that's probably a....
Fruin/And that's where I think we're at, and that's why you keep hearin' from her. I don't think
there is compromise left. We're....we're interpreting the code, um, as it was written and
as it probably needs to be. So, you're gettin' the appeal now because we've kind of hit a
wall, um (both talking)
Laverman/We have given her options. Uh, she doesn't feel they're options. Urn, and it does
limit the use of the property in the future. Um, I...I don't deny that, urn, but the same
point it's in a zone that, uh, you could see some expansion,uh, that we don't necessarily
want to see, so I think it's important to....yeah....limit and....and keep it what it is.
Taylor/It is unfortunate I think(several talking) if there isn't anything we...we can do, what...for
her,uh, cause she also raised some...some fire and safety concerns. I don't know if
you're (several talking) helping her with those.
Laverman/Right. There's fire concern, but there's also personal safety concerns. So,uh, which
we're trying to balance out there and, you know, duplex units should function as two
separate duplex units. You shouldn't have communication between those two units, and
that is a concern that has been raised in the past of...one tenant, you know,having access
to another tenant's unit. So, that...that was another thing that we were trying to address
with this. And honestly,this....this property has acted as a de facto single-family unit
because of the....the open communication. Um, if she converted it to a single-family,
she's not losing occupancy.
Dilkes/Well and...you know, any change you make to the code is going to apply to any
subsequent owner.
Throgmorton/ Sure(several talking)
Cole/No, and I....that's the thing is I understand this as a completely complicated issue. I...I
think the only thing that I was hoping is not necessarily that we could decide it tonight,
but maybe whether there could be a tightly craf....and it may be that a tightly crafted
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exemption just isn't possible, because I think we do have to apply our zoning code fairly
and we don't want a situation where all of a sudden the, urn, exception swallows the rule,
and so it may be that we as a council decide that we can't do that. Urn, I...just kudos to
Mar...Martha on this. It just seemed like a very well-developed letter. I know you guys
have had a lot of thoughtful exchanges and tried to work with her. Um, so that's sort of
what I'm getting at is....is there any interest or do you think we could evaluate an
exception, urn, and we may decide it's not viable. Maybe this'll be more for our work
session topic time, Jim, but....
Throgmorton/If we were going to evaluate an exception, the staff would have to craft an...a
proposed exception for us and, you know, I mean we can do that but...that...that's what
would have to....take place.
Dilkes/Other than an exception that says this house and this location, and we can't do that. I just
don't see that there's a viable....code change that can....can address this particular
circumstance and limit it to this particular circumstance. I just don't....I don't know what
that is.
Cole/Well she had proposed a, urn, occupancy. Then she proposed a grandfather clause with
certain criteria determined by the Council as workable (mumbled) not over a certain
number. Would that run into a regulation of unrelated people? So I think in other words
she's saying if there aren't, I think the concern would be if you have two....you have
duplexes and it's permeable,you're gonna have X number of whatever type of person in
there and it's gonna become a lot of people in a unit that's not designed for that, but I
think what she's saying is that if there were under a certain number of residents maybe
they wouldn't have to do the....duplex, is that...is that not workable or....
Laverman/ I...I(both talking)
Cole/I don't mean to put you on the spot (both talking)
Laverman/I don't know, I guess (mumbled) If she agreed to that, you know, future
redevelopment of that property would they be held to the same standard,um, that's my
concern. I think Martha has the best intentions for the house.
Cole/Yeah.
Laverman/My concern is I don't feel that Martha's gonna own it forever, uh, and then(both
talking)possibilities of what this property could be in the future is what we really have to
(both talking) and the idea is to get these converted back to what they originally were,
and I realize it's been a duplex since the 50s but there's a lot of past sins that we're still
living with from the 50s that it's nice to...to correct when we have the opportunity.
Cole/Okay.
Dilkes/And I think occupancy is just, I mean the regulation of occupancy is just(both talking)
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Cole/With what the legislature has done....
Dilkes/Well, no I'm not particularly concerned with that. It's just....one of the nice upsides of
having to respond to the legislation was getting away from....enforcement based on
occupancy(both talking)
Cole/Yeah.
Dilkes/ ...which is a tough(several talking) to do.
Throgmorton/Okay. It's not clear that we have specific guidance or instructions, other than try
to work through this as best it can be done.
Laverman/We'll give it another shot!
Fruin/Yeah, I think....I think(laughs) if you want us to draft a code amendment, we can do that.
You just have to realize that...it's probably gonna open the door for all these duplex
situations.
Cole/And I'm not sayin' that I do. I...I was just wanting to explore it a subsequent work
session, and we may all decide that it's not viable, so....
Mims/Here's what I would suggest. If you....my concern is when you, when we start getting
these letters, it is very easy to only see one side when we first read it(both talking)
Cole/Precisely!
Mims/ ...and....and think that somebody has an absolutely legitimate, great idea....
Cole/Yes!
Mims/ ....and then you sit down with staff and you start seeing the other side. I mean I...I just
remember getting totally blindsided when I first got on School Board one time(laughs)
Cole/Yeah! Yeah.
Mims/(both talking) ...with a parent,then I talked with staff, and it's like 'Oh man, did I make
that mistake!' So rather than....a whole work session, what I would suggest is if you
have a...real strong conviction of trying to do something, I would suggest you maybe sit
down with Stan and, you know, maybe play that devil's advocate and see if you can come
up with something. I'm not convinced, and I'm not sure I want to start having staff try
and draft exceptions for everybody who writes a letter(both talking)
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Cole/Precisely, and I....I think that's why I think this was at the end of a process where, you
know again, I did want to have a work session before we even decide whether to do it.
So I think you bring up a good point. So....um.....
Throgmorton/You wanna follow through on Susan's (both talking)
Cole/I would follow through. I'll meet with staff, with Geoff s approval on that. I think that
makes sense.
Throgmorton/Okay.
Mims/You might just be more comfortable then if....(both talking)
Cole/Precisely.
Mims/ ...can or can't do.
Cole/Yes!
Laverman/And we're entering....we're ending, or we're at the end of a period of enforcement
with her, but we'll extend that out while we have those conversations.
Cole/Okay, I think that'd be great!
Laverman/Okay!
Throgmorton/Okay,thanks, Stan. Let's see if we can move on. I don't know if there are any
other questions about agenda items. Are there?
Salih/Yeah, I have, uh, Item#8....8a. (unable to understand) that he...he just, since we have
transportation here and the City(unable to understand) comment on that,uh, if we can
allow free public transportation on election day. And....yeah.
Nagle-Gamin/We do plan to have free transportation with our transit system on election day,to
help everybody get to the polls.
Salih/ Okay, great. Yeah. (several talking) Yes! (laughs)
Cole/ Is that the first time that we've done that?
Nagle-Gamin/Uh, as far as I'm aware.
Cole/Terrific work, guys.
Nagle-Gamin/I don't know if that's fact but as far as I'm aware. We're actually putting together
some information, um, currently to...indicate where the polling places are, what the
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closest transit routes are. We're working with Communications staff. So you should be
seeing, uh, some information coming out, urn, social media, web site, press releases very
soon.
Throgmorton/Assuming this goes well, I would imagine we would keep doing it ev...at every
other general election in the future, until somebody said `Don't do this!' (laughs) Yeah.
Nagle-Gamm/I think that's a great plan!
Teague/And is Terry Trueblood included?
Nagle-Gamm/Well Terry Trueblood is a polling(both talking) I guess that would be my
question.
Teague/Yes, it is.
Nagle-Gamm/ I'm gonna have to look at the list,um, I don't know if we have a route that ...we
might not have gotten to that one in the vetting so far, um, we may have to....potentially
evaluate another alternative for that,because we don't currently have transit down to
Trueblood.
Teague/And there's a large population of minorities that live....(laughs) in the section where
that's their polling place, and they rely on public transportation to get there and so that's
just somethin' I want you to be aware.
Nagle-Gamm/Are you talking about the....the mobile home (both talking)
Teague/Actually it's, uh, like the Broadway, Taylor area.
Nagle-Gamm/Oh, yes! Certainly. (both talking)
Teague/That's their polling place.
Nagle-Gamm/Yep. Okay. We will take a look at that little more closely.
Teague/Thank you!
Nagle-Gamm/We're in the middle of the vetting process, so....
Salih/Good! Great! And also I have 8e. I know you, I know, Mr. Mayor, maybe you already
replied to this but I just thought like a cool idea. A fifth-grade student in California, she
like postcard from you, which is, you know, that's something like cool to be done. I just
wanna bring it out. But....
Throgmorton/I'd be happy to send her one of our Iowa City postcards.
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Mims/There's no address. (several talking) No.
Throgmorton/All right, well we can send it anyhow! (several talking and laughing)
Salih/Yeah. Maybe she (unable to understand)
Information Packet Discussion [October 4, October 111:
Throgmorton/Anything else in terms of questions? All right, let's move on to the information
packets. The October 4th packet, anything on that?
Salih/No, I don't have.
Taylor/ 1P2, I think was in that one. I was pleased to see, uh, the designation of Crissy and the
Shelter House staff to provide the case management services, uh, for the Hawkeye Trailer
Court residents,uh, cause this was very helpful with the Rose Oaks situation and
although this is a smaller number, I think displacement of any amount of people is not
ideal and so I do hope for a smooth transition in housing for those...for those residents.
Mims/ IP3, I wanted to thank Gustave for providing us with their renters guide that they did for
the students. Um.....certainly lots of information in there in terms of, you know....
different landlords,um, in terms of what response you got from various tenants and stuff,
and just lots of other,um, you know, really good information. Um, one thing I would
encourage, um, your group to do at some point, if you, you know,have people who have
the time and energy is to look at the state of Kansas, um, tenant landlord laws. Have you
looked at that?
Stewart/Uh huh.
Mims/ Okay.
Stewart/Yep!
Mims/One....one of the things that they have that I think is one of the best things is....the
landlord has to do a walk-through with the tenant within the first three days to sign off on
the condition of the apartment, and if they do not do it within those first three days, they
cannot keep any of the security deposit, regardless of the condition. Um, it...it takes
away a lot of the,um, discrepancies between the tenant and the landlord about the
condition of the unit when the tenants move in. So,just one little piece.
Stewart/Oh, yeah. Urn, I actually wanna talk a little bit briefly about the renters guide. Um, that
it was a survey we distributed, urn, I mean the information's all there but just to get the
context. Survey, uh, distributed, uh, last spring,uh, for the 2017/2018,um, rental year,
urn,per se, and basically all this was,um,just a way to kind of relay information in a
quantitative manner, um, and not....not favoring any landlord or property management
company,but simply just supplying that information. So,just wanna put that out, and
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yes, the move-in, I think it's a move-in checklist where they have to, and I remember
looking at that and definitely something to look more into.
Taylor/I also wanted to comment on that item and...and,uh, thank you for that,uh, appreciate
the effort it must have taken to distribute the survey and then to tally the results, and of
course the results weren't, uh, really surprising, uh,regarding high rent rates. We kind of
expected that,but what I was really disappointed to see was the,uh, so many items, uh,
lack of heat, lack of air conditioning,mold, odors,uh,those kinds of things, and worst of
all bats. There were a couple mentions of bats in the apartment that not much was done
about, uh, which is concerning, and the other thing concerns me then is, uh, with the
majority of apartment renters being students, uh, I have to wonder what kind of
impression we're leaving on them, uh, as they're living here and being treated like that,
uh, I...I don't think that's what we really want the impression we want to leave on them
as....as they go off after they graduate. Um, so I think landlords need to take note, uh, of
these items and...because everybody deserves a safe, healthy, clean, uh, comfortable
environment to live in, and uh, as we continue to approve many,many multi-unit, uh,
apartments and developments, we need to consider that as a....as a city, uh....uh, how we
can make it a better experience for not only students but all renters. So I I appreciate
your results.
Throgmorton/Anything else on that packet? If not, how bout the October 11 packet? Rockne,
I'm lookin' at IPS, pending work session topics.
Cole/Yep!
Throgniorton/I know you had somethin' that you wanted to bring up.
Cole/Yeah, so I just wanted to follow up on our discussion of, uh, couple weeks ago where we
expressed some concern about a fabulous program,um,but we wanna try to see if we can
make it better, urn, the Home program. Um, I think we all agree that the,um, intent on
that program is great, which is to strengthen some of the existing housing stock,um, in
the southeast part of our community. Um, in particular near Taylor Drive is my
understanding. Uh, although in talking to some of the residents, there's been some
concerns about whether some of the existing renters could be displaced, and it's my
understanding that, urn, staff currently doesn't have the authority, uh, to be able to
evaluate possible,um, barriers to homeownership for the existing residents that are on-
site. Um, so what I would like to do is to do a short work session,uh,work session to
evaluate, um,possible additional ways that the City could assist the....the existing
residents, um, to occupy and....and to purchase those properties. (mumbled)talk about
all the solutions tonight, um, but I'd like to put that on actually the next work session
agenda, um, essentially it'd be two weeks. Um, what I'd like to do then after, if I do get
the support from other Councilors, uh, to put that on the agenda, um, I'd float a memo
that I've received from the Black Voices Project. It's good, constructive feedback. I'll
do that probably tomorrow. Staff should have more than ample time to respond to that.
I'd also encourage the community also to weigh in too. It's really a great project and we
just wanna make sure that,uh, that the project is a really success and that,um, we can
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turn a possible negative into a....a real positive. Urn, so I'd like to get that authority to
put that on the next work session, cause I understand that there's some timeframe that at
least I think that, urn, the Housing Coalition is working with in terms of needing to sort of
get our feedback relatively quickly.
Salih/I would second that.
Throgmorton/What do the rest of you think?
Taylor/ I would agree with, urn, continuing the work session discussion, cause it seems
(mumbled) I've been hearing from the community is there's, uh....some fear out there as
far as the City's going to swoop in there and buy up all these properties and just kick
everybody out and I'm trying to....calm them down and say that's....that's not it at all.
So I really think it would be a good idea.
Throginorton/Yeah, I...I think it would be too. Tracy, do yo want to....let me say a few words
before you actually start talking. Maz and I had a lengthy conversation about, uh, the,
urn, the equity tool....the application of the equity toolkit and then the particular situation
in the South District and the proposal about two duplexes pur....possibly being purchased
and so on. And,uh, I've re-read the toolkit application very carefully, and think that
there...Think I see a couple particular features of it that could possibly be modified, and I
would want to have that discussed as well in the work session. So I think that there's
merit in having a work session to kind of go through it and make sure we're on board
about that. Would....and by the way, I wanna re-emphasize, I thought that was a brilliant
application of the equity toolkit, to that particular situation. It's just a nuance,right,
detail that matters.
Hightshoe/I just wanted to add that staff did take a drive through Taylor Drive. We identified
the properties that we thought we could rehab in the budget that we had,that we could
sell it for homeownership. And when we sent that letter, like we did like the University,
we will put in that letter that we're prioritizing units that are either vacant or where the
tenant has already notified the landlord that they're not renewing it. So our goal is to
minimize that we're not displacing anybody. So (both talking)
Throgmorton/It's very important to be clear about that.
Hightshoe/ ...we don't have that then we could come back and talk to you, but if we do find units
where like I said that are either vacant or where the tenant has already basically said
they're not re-leasing, then would you have the same concerns, if we're able to find that?
Cole/Well I think for me though it's to expand the opportunity to the existing residents that...
that do wanna buy. So I think there are some existing renters that would like to
participate in the program, and so it's...yeah, I think we'd still have the concerns that they
would like to participate in the(both talking)
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Throgmorton/I'm concerned that we're....if we get into this, we're gonna have a...an extended
conversation right here and right now, and I'd rather we actually do it in a future work
session.
Cole/That's why I requested it for the work session, so....
Teague/I would support us...
Hightshoe/ So just to clarify, cause we were going to plan on sending that letter now, so we're
looking for people that....
Fruin/I think you're....you're still okay to send the letter. Urn, we'll work through the....I think
I know where Council's goin' on this and I think there's a path forward. Yeah.
Throgmorton/Okay.
Teague/ I would also be in agreement with a work session.
Throgmorton/ Sure. Yeah(several talking) All right. Okay,uh, any other, uh, items in that
information packet?
Taylor/ IP11,uh, I was happy to see about the bus shelter revitalization, uh, three years ago when
we were all campaigning we heard, uh,many concerns about the need for shelters. Mary,
if you're out there, if you're listening (several talking in background) thank you. I hope
it's coming to fruition for you here, uh, cause it was throughout the city, so slowly but
surely, uh, we are making headway on this, which is good. Thank you.
Cole/Yeah, I....I echo your comments, Pauline. Mary Gravitt, if you're listening,thank you so
much for the work that you've done in terms of this advocacy. I think this is a classic
example of a community member, uh, really reaching out to Council and identifying a
very targeted solution, uh, and it was also then the....the cooperation of staff,the way the
staff responded to that. It wasn't just Mary, of course. It was a number of different
people that have identified that, um, but she really spoke out on behalf of a lot of other
people that she rides the bus with, and um, I'm really looking forward to taking it to her
and spending some time in the....in the shelters.
Throgmorton/I'd like to mention three information...items, uh, from this packet. So,uh, one's
IP#6, the memo from Ann Russet concerning the downtown historic survey. I don't
wanna talk about the survey right now cause we're gonna have a special work session on
it, what, next Monday? (several talking) Is that right...no, Tuesday(several talking) uh,
yeah, the 25th, right. Uh....but it's an excellent 56-page report and anybody who's
interested in historic preservation downtown and the issues associated with that, should
take a look at that particular document. (both talking) IP....huh?
Thomas/ I was just gonna ask, can I have a hard copy of that? Report?
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Taylor/I'd also like a hard copy if I could. Thank you!
Throgmorton/Yeah, Bruce and Maz, y'all can get one too if you want one.
Salih/That would be great.
Throgmorton/ On IP8,uh, something about a....somebody being sworn in(laughter and several
talking) Yeah, so it was a really lively ceremony, really fun to, uh, witness and actually
play a small part in. So,uh, it was awesome. Yeah. And the last thing I wanted to bring
up is IP 10, the KCI....KXIC radio interviews. We need to fill out some details there. So
I'll...right? Yeah, so I'll leap right in. September 26th was my last turn, so....and I'm
gonna be out of town on November 7, so...I'd be happy to do the one right after
November...what's that the 14th?
Taylor/I can do the 2151.
Thomas/I was hoping to do the December 5th and January 16th.
Cole/I'll do December 19th and January 9th.
Taylor/I can do January tad.
Mims/I can do November 7th. And what do you have left in January?
Fruehling/23`d and 30th.
Mims/ (both talking) ...do the 23`d.
Throgmorton/Remember we had talked about, uh, having staff people every now and then,
participating. So....that....that's somethin' we can do.
Fruin/We'll fill whatever holes you have. (laughter and several talking in background)
Teague/I'm so confused where we are with the dates (laughs) so I'll probably just touch base
later if that's okay.
Throgmorton/So, we're pretty close to being filled out, aren't we? I heard a lot of dates bein'
tossed out. (several talking)
Fruehling/It was basically we weren't having another meeting to hit that November(mumbled)
so I could redo it and send it back out and you can see what's left.
Teague/I could do November 14th, if that's (several talking)
Throgmorton/Okay!
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Fruehling/I'll just send it back out with what we have. (several talking)
Throgmorton/Any other items on that packet?
Stewart/I'd like to bring attention to IP12, urn, that(several talking in background, difficult to
hear speaker) Urn,basically, um, the whole idea on that was to, urn, provide information
on an initiative, urn, we're beginning to work on, um, with....City staff hopefully. Um,
and that, urn,the idea is to provide....require, urn, landlord, uh,tenant, or tenant/landlord
law,um, and voter registration information on the time of move-in. Obviously there's
some,uh, there might be some complexities involved with that,urn,but in addition, urn, I
forgot what I was gonna say (laughs) but (laughter) um....point being, if there's other
ways to go about it instead of requirement,urn that's also a possibility, but I was just
hoping,uh, to send this out and hope you can give some direction or, urn, feedback or
anything like that on the memo.
Taylor/A friend had sent me, uh, what's been included in our, uh, late handouts packet is IP12,
uh, regarding landlord voter registration in St. Paul, which went along with...with what
you were talking about, so I was pleased to see the request from Student Government, uh,
for a measure requiring voter registration in the packets, uh, cause voter turnout or lack
(laughs)has always been an issue in...in the area, urn, and something like this could
certainly help, uh, the renters to become engaged in the political process. So I...I think
it's a good idea, whatever(both talking)
Throgmorton/Eleanor, does state law permit us to (both talking)
Dilkes/I have a number of concerns with (both talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, I thought you would. Yeah, so maybe you can connect with Gustave about
that, or get back to us (several talking)memo.
Dillces/I assume you're interested in doing it if we can.
Throgmorton/Yeah, it sounded promising to me!
Thomas/Yeah, I really appreciate your initiative on that. Good stuff!
Taylor/IP16, I just wanted to make a quick comment on that because we get this report on a
regular basis and there always are, uh, the same recurring offenders and so at this time I
just wanted to, uh, commend the establishments that,uh,have consistently had...had good
reports and, uh, thank you for doing your due diligence on this issue.
Throgmorton/Uh, so 1P 13 has to do with the, uh, the Gateway celebration. Alas we had to
cancel it and that's what that particular, uh, information item is about. But, I understand
that the road will, and bridge, will be fully opened for homecoming, and then after
homecoming it'll be...parts of it'll be closed to do some touch-up work, right? So, that's
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really good to know. Is it gonna open like, you know, fully open on....in the morning on
Friday or do you know, Ron?
Knoche/It'll be some time on Friday. (mumbled) I'd say mid-day.
Throgmorton/I'll be down there waiting the whole (laughter)
Knoche/We'll have a spot for ya! (laughter)
Throgmorton/ Okay, can we move on to Council updates.
Fruin/Urn, I wanna talk schedule,just real quick. We've got two issues—one, like to lock down
the date for the 12 Court work session, and I think, uh, Kellie's been working through
that, maybe.
Fruehling/Yes,with not a lot of success. Um, cause I know Jim's gonna be out of town the 7th,
8th, and 9th. I think Maza and Bruce have conflicts with the 30th, although Bruce said he
could call in. Um....I'm not sure I heard from Pauline, for the 12 E. Court work session
discussion.
Taylor/I thought I did!
Fruehling/Um....it's kinda split (both talking)
Throgmorton/Bruce needs to be present for that.
Fruehling/Yeah, it's kinda split. Um, so I don't know....Geoff, although with this other item
comin' up for a work session had maybe suggested the....
Fruin/We could do it...with the, uh, on your next work session, on November...was it....6th, as
part of your regular meeting.
Throgmorton/We'd have to start earlier if we did that.
Salih/Yeah.
Mims/I agree.
Cole/(several talking) ....probably make sense.
Fruin/Start at 4:00 and do the, you wanna do the Taylor/Davis issue right at 4:00 and then get
into 12 Court?
Throgmorton/Yeah,but I think the Taylor/Davis thing will be pretty brief.
Cole/Yeah, I think so.
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Fruin/Rather do that first or second? Second?
Throgmorton/I....well, I personally would rather make sure we get the 12 Court Street(several
responding) So...
Fruin/Does that sound okay(both talking)
Throgmorton/4:00 P.M.
Froin/4:00 P.M. start to the November 6th meeting.
Salih/November 6, yeah.
Fruin/Okay. And what would you like sta...do you want staff to present anything on that? Do
you want us to refresh you on the project, uh....
Throgmorton/I'll tell you what I think we need. Uh, because we have new members, who
haven't gone through this. We need to have background information about the,uh, the,
um,the Riverfront Crossings master plan as it applies to that area, and information about
when that plan was developed and what, very quickly, what the process was, cause there
was a lot of public involvement in that, and then we need to now about the form based
code,what it says about that particular area, especially with regard to height bonuses,
cause they're like, I don't know, 12 kind of actions that potentially would warrant height
bonuses. Like student housing is up to five stories. Art is one story and so on, those
kinds of things. We need to know those things. That...that would provide us with the
background information we need. And then we can be focusing on....uh, 12 Court in
particular.
Fruin/Okay.
Throgmorton/So the stuff I just described, we can't spend an hour goin' over it but we need to
have enough of an overview so that Bruce and Maz and others who were not involved in
that process would be able to know what that background is all about.
Fruin/Understood! We can do that. The second scheduling,uh, issue is the January meetings.
Did we get those in the....
Fruehling/It was in the late handouts.
Fruin/(both talking) late handouts we have our January meeting schedule. And,uh....Kellie, I
don't have that right in front of me. Can you remind me, are we still showing a meeting
on January 1st, the holiday?
Mims/No, I show the second.
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Fruin/We're showin' the second? Okay. So just wanna....
Fruehling/Yeah, the budget ones we're down for the 5'h, Saturday the 5th and Tuesday the 8d'.
Salih/The first!
Fruin/Well, the first would be your regular meeting. It'd be the first Tuesday is...is a holiday.
So we're showin' the 2"d for that. So I just wanna make sure that you all have that on
(several talking in background) Wednesday the 2"d (several talking)
Fruehling/I don't think I pushed it to....(several talking)
Salih/If there is a way we can do it....on the 8`h and the 22"d,because still we have five Tuesday
on that month, if we can do one on the 8th, one on the 22"a
Throgmorton/Yeah, are there any complications associated with having our first meeting on
January the 8th? That's what you're sayin', right?
Salih/Yes!
Throgmorton/I...I don't see any complications but....
Thomas/I mean there would be a budget discussion in the afternoon. (several talking)
Throgmorton/No, we're gonna have the.....yeah, that's right. The budget discussion in the
afternoon. Yeah, so we'd have to have a....yeah, you're right.
Fruin/Or we could move the budget meeting. (talking in background) We typically have a
couple of Council work sessions on the budget in January. The first, uh, bein' an all-day
session on the first Saturday of January, which'd be the 5th.
Salih/Uh huh.
Fruin/So we wanna make sure that that date works for you. Again that's typically a full day.
Uh, we did the breakfast, uh, Budget on a Breakfast last year, and then we follow that up
the following Tuesday with the discussion on the capitol improvements plan,which is
typically an...an afternoon. So we could, I mean if you really were feelin' up for it, we
could do the budget work session and then get into the Council meeting. That may be
askin' a little much if we have a heavy agenda, so we...we could move the...we could
explore some other dates for the budget work session, if you'd rather have your regular
Council meeting on the 8t. There's no....
Throgmorton/But we can...the one on the 8th is the CI...capital improvements program
discussion. So let's see if we can find another date for that. And do the regular full-day,
full Saturday day,urn,budget discussion on the 5th, as currently scheduled.
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Salih/ Sure.
Fruin/Okay.
Fruehling/And then the regular meeting's the 8th and then 22nd, the second and fourth Tuesdays?
Throgmorton/Yeah, I think that's what we said. Yeah.
Fruin/I'll put that on my recap (mumbled) so everybody's clear (laughter) dates are and (several
talking)
Throgmorton/All right, confusion abounds (several talking)
Fruin/I think we start at 8:00.
Salih/ 8:00? Okay.
Taylor/That's on the 5t.
Fruin/We might do a 7:30 with the Breakfast on a Budget. (several talking)
Throgmorton/You know that worked really well last time so....(several talking) Yeah. Let's
evoke Kingsley's spirit and do that.
Cole/Drive down from Waterloo. (laughter; several talking in background)
Throgmorton/Okay, so we're done with that, right?
Fruin/Yes, thank you!
Throgmorton/Okay,we have, uh, Council updates but I'm gonna suggest, given the time, that
we do all the Council updates at....as part of our work session. I meant part of the formal
meeting, at the end. Yeah. All right. Sounds to me like we're done for right now.
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