HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-11-20 Transcription Page 1
Council Present: Cole, Mims, Salih, Teague,Taylor, Thomas, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe, Dilkes, Fruehling, Andrew, Knoche, Havel, Reichart,
Hightshoe, Sitzman, Seydell-Johnson, Schepers, Barker
Others Present: Stewart (UISG)
Update on Emerald Ash Borer efforts, including discussion of possible chemical treatment
of ash trees defined as marginal in health by the City's recent tree survey:
Throgmorton/Okay, looks like it's a little after 5:00. We can begin our City Council work
session for Tuesday, November 20, 2018. And the first topic is an update on Emerald
Ash Borer efforts, including discussion of possible chemical treatment of ash trees
defined as marginal in health by the City's recent tree survey. Juli, are you going to
come up and speak first, right? (mumbled)
Seydell-Johnson/ So good evening, everyone. I'm Juli Seydell-Johnson, Parks and Recreation
Director and thong with me tonight is Rae Lynn Schepers. She's our Senior Maintenance
Worker in the Forestry Division.
Throgmorton/Sorry, could you state her name again please.
Seydell-Johnson/Rae Lynn Schepers.
Throgmorton/Just wanted to be sure.
Seydell-Johnson/We let Zac take a vacation to Colorado so he's off doing his family thing this
week. You get the two of us instead. Um, as you said we're here to update you on what
we've, uh, found out and what we've done since the meeting in September when we last
talked about Emerald Ash Borer. Um,just a reminder Emerald Ash Borer is an
infestation of ash trees. Urn, at that time we had identified about 3,000 ash trees
throughout the city. We'll talk about that a little bit more, and I have to tell you it is a
changing topic almost every day still, um, and the information that we found out since
then has even changed some of our....what we've identified in the tree species. So I'm
gonna walk you through some of that,talk about what we've been doing and what plans
are for the different treatments, and get your feedback on any additional treatment that
you'd like to see. Um,but first a little funny, urn, as you know we always need more
staff. I always want more staff in Parks and Recreation. We got a little extra help on our
Emerald Ash Borer efforts. Um, we got....see if I can get in here....we have an Emerald
Ash beaver at work (laughter) in City Park. (several responding) Yeah, this happened
right after the flooding,uh, so the beavers are alive and well throughout the park. This
time they happened to take the tree that we had hoped they might take eventually, was
one of the ash trees (several talking and laughing) Yeah, sheer luck they got the right
one. They must have known what they were doin'! Anyway, some of the updates, uh,
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we talked about last time about getting a tree committee established. Um, that committee
has been established and has had their first meeting. They are a sub-group of the Parks
and Recreation, um, Commission. There's two commission members on the committee
right now, so that is Lucie Laurian and Susan Bentler, along with Rae Lynn from our
staff, Zac from our staff, Mark Vitosh who is the DNB's District Forester, and we hope to
add representatives from both, um, Planning and from, uh, the Engineering or Public
Works' staff as well. Uh, Lucie will likely be going off commission at the end of this
term but I think she'd like to stay on this committee as a citizen member at that point and
a different, uh, Parks Commission member would be,um, added to the group. So the...
the commission was charged with the following things. First of all, uh, monitor the
implementation of the urban tree management plan. We talked very briefly about this.
This is an outgrowth of the tree inventory that we had done 18 months ago. Uh, final
draft, that was what they did at their first committee meeting was go through that plan
and come up with final edits to get back to our consultants. So we're on track to have
that completed by the end of the year and along with that, that's when we've talked about
having the tree inventory data more available to the public on the web site. So that's in
the works. Urn, they will also be monitoring the work of the Forestry Division, their
plans, helping with the education and out....outreach efforts, and the other thing they
really talked about at their first meeting was, uh, upcoming Arbor Day next spring.
They're looking at a much larger celebration than we've had, with 30 to 40 tree plantings
involving I believe two maybe three schools. Um, in the past we've only had one small
school involved. So, that's much in the works. Any questions about the tree committee?
Okay. Their plans are to be quarterly and report back regularly to the Parks and Rec
Commission. Secondly, uh, after the last meeting we said that we would go out and do
more of an inventory in certain neighborhoods of the ash trees. So specifically we only
had about a week after that meeting in September. It's hard to remember back then, um,
but the trees were still growing when we met and we had about one more week before
they started to drop their leaves, and then a wind storm came and took even more of the
leaves down. So in that week, uh, we had a committee of three people that went out and
looked at the ash trees in this particular neighborhood, which is bordered by Burlington
on the south,um, Brown Street on the north, Governor on the east, and Dubuque on the
west, and the three members were Zac, Park Superintendent; Rae Lynn, our Senior
Maintenance Worker in Forestry; and then Mark Vitosh from the DNR, went out and
they hand-looked at all of the identified ash trees in the right-of-way. So of those they
identified 268 ash trees in this area and why they chose this area is we know that this is
one of the largest concentrations of mature ash street trees. Um, they provide a
significant portion of the tree canopy along these streets. Uh, we believe that was the
direction to look at those first. Uh, so 268 ash identified and then 140 of those identified
as possib....possible trees for treatment, and I know that last time we talked quite a bit
about percentage and different things of what....what does it mean, which trees should be
treated,which trees would not. After going out in this particular area with all these
mature ash trees, that three-person committee got pretty,um, generous on which trees
should be treated. In other words, the 140 are the trees that have been judged as either
excellent, good, or fair, but essentially they just didn't show any major structural damage
or damage that would look....that would put them on the list for removal immediately.
And that's what I'm talking about, this has even changed since we last talked to you in
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September. The trees are failing much more quickly than we thought they were in
September and we really feel like of those 268 trees, 140 are likely viable and the rest of
them probably prevent...present some safety hazards and need to come out sooner rather
than later. So they're recommending that in this particular neighborhood, 140 of the ash
trees would be treated next spring. You might say well why didn't we treat them
immediately last fall? The way that you treat Emerald Ash Borer, the....the chemicals go
into the roots of the tree, so in order to be successful it has to happen at a time when the
tree is actively growing, um, and as they're going to sleep in the fall that's not the case.
So we really do have to wait until spring when they've not only budded out but started to
grow leaves, um,which will probably be end of April and probably mid-May, depending
on what the spring looks like. So come spring we'll actually have to go back out and re-
evaluate these 140 trees one more time to make sure that none of them have....have
degraded more over the winter, um, and then we would start treatment on those. We're
in the process of a bid process now to choose a contractor to be able to do that. Um, and
then we're estimating about 50,000, and that's not just for this neighborhood. This is just
our example neighborhood to show you at this point. Urn, we're still pretty confident in
that number of about 400 to 500 trees that are candidates for treatment, urn, and we'll go
through those maps in just a second. Uh,but that would be the significant street trees in
neighborhoods that have a high concentration of the ash trees as street trees and that are
of that significant size. So I'm gonna stop for questions at this point.
Cole/How are you defining marginal in terms of percentage of canopy that's showing signs of
stress?
Seydell-Johnson/Yeah, we're saying if the tree looks like it's a danger and a hazard and is going
to fall down, then it's not marginal. It needs to come down. So we've gotten away from
the actual percentages as we had talked about before. Because they're degrading so fast,
we're just saying it's either they're candidates for treatment or they're not, based on is it
a public safety hazard or is it not. So you have it still listed here as good and fair because
that's the criteria listed in the tree inventory. But the visual....um, walk-through of all
those trees really just said one or the other.
Cole/How does that compare with what other communities in Iowa have done in terms of
identifying percentage of tree canopy that's lost in terms of identifying treatment? Have
you done a comparative, in terms of how other communities are doing that?
Seydell-Johnson/They're all getting to the point that we're getting to right now, and they're
feeling like our criteria's actually pretty generous toward the treatment option versus
removal. Um, what we were talking about a few months ago of being able to judge
percentages and what not, it's changing so fast that I'm not sure it's such a valid
argument or a valid discussion any longer.
Salih/ (unable to understand) 140 ash trees that (unable to understand) candidate for treatment.
(difficult to hear) How did you define (unable to understand) why they are in the 140.
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Seydell-Johnson/Okay so...the way we defined, so the two of the 59 and 79 is how these trees
were judged on the tree inventory, which was the snapshot taken about 18 months ago.
The marginal and treatable versus not is what was judged on the walk-through inventory.
So you're getting two different judges of it there. The tree inventory, which information
is a little bit older, had it broken down into three different categories. As we....as our...
as our staff and....and our DNR person went out, they just simply said 'is this tree a
safety hazard that needs to come down. If not let's try to treat it.
Thomas/Uh, Juli, does that include the larger ash, were they also part of this inventory or are
they outside the inventory?
Seydell-Johnson/I believe so. I'm gonna look to Rae Lynn. Did we stop at a certain (unable to
hear response) It was every ash. Yeah. There is some evidence, as you're...I think
you're referring to the largest of the large ash trees may not be as successful with
treatment. Right now we're saying let's try.
Thomas/Yeah, you had....you had mentioned at the last presentation Grand Rapids and that they
don't. So I....good to hear the clarification.
Mims/Juli, could you repeat the four boundary streets for this diagram?
Seydell-Johnson/Sure! The east side is Governor, the west side is Dubuque, the north side is
Brown, and the south side is Burlington, and there's no magic to that, other than we just
said that's a....that's a neighborhood with a high percentage of these really large, big ash
trees on the, uh, and that's really about all we could get to in that week that we had. Uh,
had we had more time we would have branched out into other neighborhoods or out. We
think this is pretty indicative of what other neighborhoods will look like, so we're basing
our numbers kind of on this....on the streets. Let me take you through some of the maps
from before,just to explain some of the differences here. So if you remember this map
we have all the green dots are the significant ash trees, and I wouldn't get too hung up on
the words `significant' or not. It's basically the ash tree I think that was larger than six
inches. So it's just a seedling or a small tree, it didn't show up in the inventory either.
So those are....those were too small for that. Then after the significant we had listed at
the time, urn, all of these marginal health ash trees and you can see that, if you go from
the green one to the yellow, it's pretty similar. And you might say well how did we get
from marginal to the ones that we're recommending for treatment. If you look at this
marginal map, you notice that there's a lot of them congregated like along the river, urn,
on the Peninsula, in wooded areas or park areas. We aren't recommending treatment of
those. We are focused, as you....as you asked us to be, on the street trees in
neighborhoods that are predominantly lined by the ash trees. So that gets us closer to this
potential ash tree. These are primarily trees that are on the right-of-way. There are a few
in the parks, um, if they're in a park it's because of a significant size, good condition, or
it's one that we specifically planted for a landscaping reason and we'd like to try to save
it, um, in that location, but most of them that you'll find along our trails or along the
rivers, we're saying let's just let nature....do with it as they would in those, because
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they're also in a more diverse canopy in those places. It's not like along the right-of-way
where it's oftentimes just the ash tree in some of these neighborhoods.
Cole/ In terms of identifying the dangerous trees, what are the criteria that are used to determine
whether it's dangerous or not?
Seydell-Johnson/Does the trunk or the primary branches show evidence that they, urn, have
either significant damage from before or early infestation damage that makes them
susceptible in the next wind storm or the next large storm. That's....that's kind of a
really basic answer for you. Urn, they look for evidence that they may be damaged or
ringed by some other like lawnmowers or some other construction or the root system
hasn't taken enough hold that it's got si....significant structural deficiencies in the first
place. Um....yeah.
Thomas/ So city....so if I understand this then, citywide if a tree falls into the excellent, good, or
fair classification, they will be treated.
Seydell-Johnson/We hope to get to the point where if it's a street tree, and it's not showing signs
of....of serious infestation or structural damage, we think that we can accommodate those
in that 400 to 500 number and treat most of those. Not gonna say all because I don't
know what we're gonna find next spring, and I don't know how....how much our
contractor's gonna be able to get done in one spring,but our priorities would be the larger
tree-lined streets with ash trees. The high density areas where that is a significant, um,
effect on the tree cover, or the street tree cover. Um, and then br....and then moving
outward from there. So if it's....if it's a tree....if it's a street with two ash trees and 26
other varieties, we may not get there and treat those just because there's so many other
diverse species around them. Um.....we'll do our best! Yeah. Some other numbers you
asked for in the last presentation—um,jut an update on our tree plantings and removals
from this year. So 325 trees planted in 2018. Urn, the 92 and 53 for the spring and fall
numbers were largely in-fill trees, urn, for ash removals and other reasons along the
streetways. And then we had 140 trees planted this fall out along Camp Cardinal and
then 40 along Lower West Branch. Why not as many along Lower West Branch? Um,
it's still County land on the north side so we didn't have as much planting area there.
Um, we removed 175 trees in 2018 and so far 125 of those were ash trees. Um, either
removed due to storm damage or infestation. In 2019 we have over 220 planned, urn, for
planting at this time. So we continue to hopefully stay ahead by planting more than we
are taking out. And then the final thing, uh, we....you asked us to come back with a little
bit more information about notification and replacement. If you remember when we
talked in September we talked that we typically only, uh, contact the property owner, and
sometimes confusion comes because it's a renter in the unit, urn, and the tree is removed
and they didn't know it was going to be removed. So we have changed that so that we
are now sending letters out directly to the address of the house so it gets to the tenant.
Um, we are also looking at green signage that will go on any tree ahead, in advance of it
being removed, so anyone in the public walking by will see this sign. It'll say 'this tree is
scheduled for removal due to ash borer,' or whatever, and some information where
....where to call or where to get more information. Um, that would not be the case
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obviously, if it's storm damage and it's gotta come down quickly, but any time we know
in advance we would do that. We would continue with all our other efforts to talk with
the property owners about their options for re....replacement trees and try to give them a
good idea of the timeline of when the replacement will come. Urn, it's not always
possible based on weather and other things,but we try to give them a good idea of when
to expect a new tree to be placed back there. Um, and then finally for the trees that will
be treated, they will get a little silver medallion. Is it stapled on to it, Rae Lynn, or
(unable to hear response) Yeah, it's the same thing that Coralville and North Liberty are
doing, so you'll see that throughout the region for trees that have received treatment. So
we're....residents will know what's been treated, what's not, and then also see these other
signs when a tree's gonna come down. So.....that's the end of my presentation. If I can
Mims/ So,Juli, our City pesticide policy has to be changed to accommodate that, is that correct?
Seydell-Johnson/Correct. If we(both talking) treat in the parks.
Mims/If we treat in the parks. Okay. Okay. Um, has there been any....plan or thought in terms
of, urn,more education of property owners if they wanna treat trees? One of my
concerns is in....in some of the earlier reading that we had, it might have been some of
the stuff that you shared, John, was quite frankly the concern of individual property
owners treating and using the, dumping it on the soil approach versus the injection
approach,just because the environmental impact. Um....I don't know what your
thoughts are or(both talking)
Seydell-Johnson/ ...continue to do outreach and that's one of the things the tree committee has
talked about is getting more information out for homeowners that wanna make a decision
about that. Um....we can certainly recommend that they do it by injection. I don't know
that we have the...the ability to monitor(both talking)
Mims/Right. Sure. No, I....I understand that. Just making...trying to help people understand
that while it might be cheaper, it also, from what I read, seems like it's not as good
environmentally, the potential for damage to other plants as well as bees and that sort of
stuff, so....
Seydell-Johnson/There's a lot of numbers floatin' around here so (laughter) essentially the....the
theme is the ash trees are declining very quickly. Um, we've....we're working on
treating as many as possible but even that number's declining as each, you know, as time
passes, so....
Mims/Because those numbers, can we get the PowerPoint put in the next info packet, please?
(mumbled) helpful to have as a record.
Throgmorton/ Good idea! So I don't really have a bunch of numbers I want to throw around,
Juli,but I do sort of want to narrate a story, that is probably similar to what several other
homeowners have experienced, and when I say this I'm not gonna be speaking critically.
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I just wanna kind of observe how things can unfold. Uh, and before I say it I wanna
indicate how much I admire what Rae Lynn has been doing over the years in her work,
uh, with regard to our trees. We had a great conversation a few years ago, I can't
remember exactly when, so bravo to you, Rae Lynn. Thank you. Uh, but here's my short
story. A few days ago, you know I live on Ronald Street. So a few days, two or three
days ago, uh, I heard a lot of, um....what sounded like trucks coming up and then trees
being cut down. And it turned out that four trees were cut down within three houses of
where I live. Maybe four houses. So, all right, I figure they're ash trees. I don't know
that that's true, but I figure they are. And then I talk with my wife about it and she asks
me, well I wonder if the owners were notified. I said well I think so. That's....that's our
standard policy, but I don't know that as a matter of fact and then beyond that, I....yeah,
so....so there's this surprise that the trees are being cut down. So I....I don't think I saw
any notification in front like you mentioned the signs.
Seydell-Johnson/(both talking) ...haven't started that yet. that's our plan almost immediately we
work (both talking)
Throgmorton/All right so it's just like confusion from an ordinary resident's point of view is
what I'm tryin' to say.
Seydell-Johnson/Sure.
Throgmorton/Even though I know a lot about the background. And then beyond that, this has...
what I'm gonna say now has nothing to cutting trees down. I've also noticed new trees
being....having been planted. Mainly on, somewhere on south Lucas Street, or I guess
it's north Lucas, but south of where I live, and I'm sure that there are others in the
neighborhood which I haven't.....I have not observed but they're there. So, it....it's just
kinda hard for an ordinary resident to really know what's really goin' on, and to be
surprised, I guess, when they see trees being cut down and not really knowing what this
entails. Is this like....I was just talking with somebody about an hour ago. This person
said, ah! What are ya gonna do, are you all gonna cut all these trees down (laughs) I said
no, we're not gonna do that and we're gonna do what you just described (laughs) but....
Seydell-Johnson/I think it's hard to get the word out. We've been trying and this has been
devastating, uh,just like Dutch Elm disease was. We know that these trees are an
important part of each neighborhood. Um, as I mentioned last time we met even our
staff, I mean nobody likes to take these big trees down. It's sad. Um, we think that
actually getting signage on each particular tree will help the casual person that doesn't,
you know, like you say, we spend a lot of time talking with the individual property
owners, but that will help with general public information so they see that it's coming and
can get more information in those cases, cause we understand. It's traumatic when these
big trees come down. Yeah.
Thomas/So will we be able...so in spring there'll be a verification, and at that point it, you know,
as Jim was saying, I think everyone.....who's interested in this issue would like to know
which trees have been identified for treatment and which ones have not been selected for
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treatment, so that that anxiety, uh, would be addressed. So will there be then at that point
a, urn, notification (both talking) property owner or what....what's going on?
Seydell-Johnson/I would assume it's going to move pretty quickly in the spring, cause we'll
have a very short window to actually do the treatment. So we will need to do better
public information ahead of time so people know, you know, here's what to look for. As
we said we'll mark every tree that gets treated, but I....right now I don't know that we're
planning on letting a homeowner know that before we....we do the treatment. Um, I
think the treatment would happen and then it would be marked and we could potentially
let them know afterwards. Um, I suspect this is probably three or four week window,
maybe a little longer, of when the treatment can happen. So once we get a contractor on
board, we're gonna wanna,you know, let them go and....and get(both talking)
Thomas/ So those that(both talking)that are to be treated will be marked and those that are....
people understand which trees are ash(both talking) those that are not marked (both
talking)
Seydell-Johnson/Right.
Salih/Juli, I'm sorry but I think either I didn't understand it or maybe I didn't paying attention.
Uh, you know the 268,those the trees you are....how many trees that you have on the
area that you highlighted, right?
Seydell-Johnson/Right.
Salih/ 140 of them need treatment?
Seydell-Johnson/ 140 of them we,uh, we recommend that we can treat, or try to treat.
Salih/And you mean....
Seydell-Johnson/ So 128 will need to be removed and replanted.
Salih/And the 128, oh....I thought the opposite. I thought 128 is in good condition and (both
talking)
Seydell-Johnson/I wish! (both talking) 140's better than(both talking)
Salih/Okay, yeah.
Seydell-Johnson/It's still going to be significant numbers coming out.
Salih/Yes!
Mims/Do you see those 128 needing to come out next summer, I mean are they to that point
from a safety standpoint, and I realize you gotta reassess in the spring, but....
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Seydell-Johnson/I...I doubt we could get them all out in one summer, even if we tried. So I
think we'll have to prioritize and it'll prob.....they will not happen immediately. It will
happen over a couple years. Um, unless, you know, Mother Nature helps us out in some
way in that case, so....yeah.
Taylor/That was going to be my question, when those 128 and over what period of time you're
planning to have them removed.
Teague/ So for probably residents that, you know, have ash trees on their property, I understand
that you'll be giving educational material. How....what....what does that look like to
regular homeowners?
Seydell-Johnson/There's actually quite a bit of educational information on the web site, both,
uh, some on our web site, but the State DNR has quite a bit, urn, and there's a number of
private tree companies that are more than happy to come out and look at an ash tree and
....and help decide whether it's, uh, you know, available for treatment or if it should be
taken out, and I think that's what I would recommend homeowners do. Um, we can
really only see the ones on the street and get....get to those, but there are many more on
private property.
Teague/And if they don't treat `em, how does that affect other trees around them?
Seydell-Johnson/(both talking) It probably doesn't at this point. That's a little bit up for debate,
um, it used to be that we thought we would try to treat a number of them to...to keep the
ash borer from infesting the tree and it would move on to the next....the next area. That
may or may not be the case. So I think you just look at it as saving the one individual
tree,unless....unless you have other information on that particular part of the treatment.
Thomas/To do, I'm sorry....
Seydell-Johnson/Does it matter if a homeowner chooses to treat their trees or not, does it effect
the mortality of the other trees around them.
Thomas/I don't think so. I think it's either you treat....if you treat, uh, you're....I think it's
something like 99% assured, with certain treatments. There are many out there,but there
are some that are very effective and they will preserve that tree. If you do not treat, you
can be assured your tree will die.
Teague/And....and so how often are we lookin' at treatin' the trees,just out of curiosity.
Thomas/From what this, the one that's....appears to be the most effective, uh, on the label says
every other year. Uh, research is saying that it may actually be effective for three years.
So my...my feeling is we tr...you know, I'm happy to see that, you know,the decision
was made to treat the....the fair and, uh, good condition trees. Urn, it buys us time, so
maybe in two years the researchers and even the manufacturers of the chemicals will say,
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yeah, it actually works for three years and change the label. Urn, but for now, there's
some question, you know, do we treat every other year or every three years, uh, but at
least two years.
Throgmorton/Any other questions for Juli? I do (laughs) I....you mentioned the....the tree
committee being established. I'm really happy to hear about that. Sounds great. And
you also mentioned that they will monitor the implementation of the urban tree
management plan. I think I've seen a draft of that plan, but I don't think the rest of the
Council has. And I....I certainly look forward to having it fully shared and...so that we
all have a sense of what....what the vision is for managing our forests and trees and the
tree canopy and all that kinda thing. So, uh, did I hear you correctly, no...I don't wanna
put words in your mouth. When are we likely to see (both talking)
Seydell-Johnson/Probably...so the....the final edits have been I believe sent back to the
consultant, or they will be in the next day or two, so probably by the end of the year we'll
have kind of...we'll have the final draft for you to look at. So we'll give 'em two or three
weeks to turn it around once we get those final edits back. Um....so you should be
seeing it soon.
Throgmorton/And is it likely that that great online inventory...or the computerized, digital
inventory of trees will be available for people to look at and....check individual trees,
cause I know (both talking)
Seydell-Johnson/That's our hope, uh, by the end of the year as well. Maybe not with full
functionality that staff sees of it, but definitely to be able to see the information about
each of the trees. So....
Throgmorton/It's pretty fascinating information. Maybe you can give us a sense of what one
can learn by clicking a tree.
Seydell-Johnson/Yeah (laughs)
Throgmorton/But what I meant,when you click a tree you learn if it's an oak or a hickory or
whatever and you can learn what its diameter is, uh, etc. (both talking)
Seydell-Johnson/Approximate age, the type of tree, and you can look up and down your street
and see what other trees are there and actually go out and judge for yourself which ones
are thriving and which ones aren't and do quite a bit of information like that. Sure.
Thomas/(several talking) ...could also be indicated on....online, is that....
Seydell-Johnson/Rae Lynn, do you know that? Yes. Yeah.
Taylor/ So the trees in that, um, urban tree management plan are, every tree in the city or...just
the ones in the right-of-way?
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Seydell-Johnson/It is, uh, 50,000 data points, so it is the right-of-way trees were the first
priority, urn, most of the park trees, and then some along the trails. We didn't get quite
all the trail areas, um, identified, and like for instance, Hickory Hill Park does not have
every tree identified in it. Only the fairly larger, significant ones. And (several talking)
Yeah (several talking and laughing) project within itself. Um, significant trees mean it
was over, I can't remember if it was six inches or eight inches. So smaller trees are in like
the forested areas where there's a lot of volunteer trees that have grown up. Those are
not all individually mapped on the tree inventory. So, it's more of the deliberate planted
trees throughout the city.
Taylor/And you mentioned the size, I seemed to recall from a discussion before that there's a
certain size of tree, a limitation as far as the injection. Are you looking(both talking)
Seydell-Johnson/Well as far as....so smaller than six inches, your....your investment for
treatment is probably the same as your investment to remove it and replace it, and your
grow....you would get a new tree grown back just as quickly for those smaller, very
small, small trees. The problem with the very large trees is that they don't grow nearly
as fast and there's not as much growth on them each year, so to get the chemicals kind of
sucked up from the roots, all the way up to the tree canopy, is not as successful in the
larger....the largest of large diameter trees. So we're still, as Rae Lynn said, we're still
having....we're still going to try to treat those. It just may not be as successful in that
case.
Taylor/Thank you.
Throgmorton/Okay, any other questions for Juli?
Thomas/Well I'm....thank you for, uh....your presentation and it, uh, you know, I guess I would
say better late than never (laughs) I, um, you know I'm happy to see that the priorities
that I think I had hoped....be, you know, be, urn, that the focus would be on those areas
where you have high concentrations and also the, um, Heritage....Heritage ash, uh, are
being included, urn.....so you know, if we had started the treatment a little bit earlier,
we might have been able to be more strategic, but at this point it seems.....let's.....let's
just treat what....what we can and....and work from there.
Throgmorton/Thank....thanks so much, Juli.
Seydell-Johnson/Thanks.
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/All right. We can move on to our next item, which is clarification of agenda
items. And so......do any of you folks have agenda items you want to ask questions
about?
Salih/Yeah.
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Throgmorton/Go ahead, Maz!
Salih/I want to talk about 8j.
Throgmorton/ 8j?
Salih/(unable to understand) Yeah. And we receive some late, uh, handout about it.
Fruin/While you're lookin' at your late handouts, you do have a couple of, uh, letters from
residents on....Wales Street. This has been a....uh, I'd say a difficult street maybe, uh,
for our....um, service departments, uh, for quite some time and that's referenced or
alluded to in some of the letters that you've....you've gotten where we had to sit down
with the neighborhood before and say we're havin' some problems gettin' our service
vehicles up and down, snow plows, trash, leaf—I imagine just about anything. My
understanding, it's a 24-foot street and when you allow parking on both sides, and you
get those competing cars on either side, that road can quickly shrink to below 10-feet
pretty easily, and obviously our....our service vehicles are, uh, gonna struggle to navigate
that. So it sounds like we're havin' some problems again. Urn, candidly I haven't had a
chance to dive into, uh, all....what those,um, challenges are, but this request did come
from internal, it's from our Public Works department. Uh, and again, it's just a service
issue. So we're recommending that we just move it over to parking to one side or the
other. Obviously you've got some residents that don't like that solution.
You've....you've all been here before. We've been here before as a staff; and for us the
easier solution is just to....put the parking on one side and....and move forward. We're
happy to...if you'd like to hear details on the struggles that we're havin', we'd report back
to ya. We can, urn, hold off on....on the parking prohibition and come back to ya in
detail what those challenges are but it's as simple as gettin' service vehicles up and down
the street.
Cole/There was some discussion about possibly a timing framework. Is that something you
evaluated and why would that or wouldn't that work?
Fruin/Um, you know as you....as you move out from the core of downtown Iowa City, and....
and even in the residential areas around downtown Iowa City, we don't do a whole lot of
parking enforcement, urn, outside of the meters and the decks. It's just....it's just not
something that we've done. We can do it on a complaint basis. So any time you start
puttin' regulations out, uh, far removed from the....from the downtown area, we don't
have regular enforcement. We're not staffed for regular enforcement. Sure we can do it,
we have the capability, but staffs makin' special trips out there and we're just not sure
it's worth it at the end of the day for, um, for that. You know the suggestions that they
throw out, um, you know, alternating.....I don't know exactly what they said, but
alternating streets or just on trash day, um.....yeah, that's...I mean is it doable? Yes. Is it
the most efficient way to....to handle it? Probably not.
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Salih/I guess....I think we can try that experiment for a while like....restricted parking at certain
time, especially on the recycling day, like the truck....for the truck to pick up and if it's
not working we can....(mumbled) because a lot of car park there. That mean the people
who live there really depend on this street to park their cars. And as the letter explains
(unable to understand)have like garages to park and all this, you know (unable to
understand) if we can try....as just Rockne suggest, like certain times and see. If it's still
not working, we can.....tell them we tried!
Fruin/(mumbled) it's...that's gonna impact, you know, your.....your Friday pickup day, but it's
not gonna help your snow plows and other(both talking)
Mims/That's what I was just gonna say, I mean we're gettin' into snow season and so....I mean
I don't....I don't know what the City trucks have had luck or not going through there in
terms of, uh, leaf removal, but certainly, you know, with snow removal coming, that's a
problem, and it....I mean it sounds like....the only thought I had was it sounded like, you
know, staff had reached out to them maybe years ago when there was some good
compliance and now ownership maybe has turned over, and that's....was kind of what I
was reading in that they thought maybe if we tried it again with the new owners that
maybe we could get some compliance (several talking) so I guess....I mean I'd be willing
to at least give that a shot, but if that doesn't work.....in a fairly short time period,then
I'm totally supportive of going to one side,but....we can only spend City resources so
much to try and solve little problems so to speak, I mean the inefficiency of City staff
time becomes a big issue but....I guess I would be willing to say, hey, let's send
notifications out and say look,this is a concern, you know. If in 30 days we're still
seeing the same problems, then we're gonna go ahead and do the no parking on one side
of the street.
Salih/Uh huh.
Mims/I don't know how the rest of you feel.
Throgmorton/That sounds like a reasonable thing to me (both talking) if it's not, uh, a huge
problem for the staff to....to take that step.
Fruin/You now Wales Street's been there for several decades (laughter) so not....
Throgmorton/What do the rest of ya think?
Thomas/(both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...pull that item and.....
Thomas/Yeah, I mean I was...um, I found it interesting that in one of the letters there was a
comment that staff in the past had urged the residents to avoid parking opposite one
another. Um....and that's basically what I'd been discussing before, was.....that.... that's
the issue, is when cars park opposite one another. Urn,but if you worked with the
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neighbors and came up with.....uh, a, you know, car placement, which avoided that, that
was acceptable to them. That could be signed,just as parking on one side only. You
know, where you identify the, you know, the, um, the parking bays as defined by that
scheme and....
Mims/But how is that any more efficient than just making it easier and having them park on one
side, because especially if you've already got a narrow street. It's a whole lot easier for
your snow plows and your garbage trucks to get through if you've got parking on one
side, rather than alternating on opposite sides, predetermined, and now they've gotta
weave in and out.
Thomas/All I....my only, um, my feeling was.....if......if both solved the problem, for the City,
in terms of not having cars opposite one another, uh, why not offer that option to the
residents and let them decide. If they prefer it on one side only, that's fine. If they would
rather have the....the weave, uh, and allow parking on both sides as....you know, in a
controlled manner, that would be the alternative.
Fruin/My....my experience would be that....residents are okay with parking, as long as it's not
in front of their house, and I'm not saying about....the.....the, you know,the
correspondence that we got and then the preference of the individual writers,but having
been through dozens and dozens of these in my career, it's....when you limit to one side
or the other, it's typically the side that....that gets the parking, where they may have
unfamiliar cars in front of their homes, that don't like it.
Mims/We just saw that on the west side.
Fruin/Yeah, I mean that's....
Salih/I really wanna ask you, is like if you park....just for my own information really, if you
park in front of somebody else house, that's illegal or what? (several responding) Then,
you know, I really....as long as they are not, people are not doing something illegal, I
really don't care if the people at the house don't like the car in front of their house or not.
This city for everyone and the street is everybody paying taxes here and they can use the
street.
Teague/Do we....do we actually know how many cars park on this street?
Fruin/Uh, it wouldn't be difficult to find that out. If you want (several talking)
Teague/No, that one street, because if they have garages and that type stuff and they're parkin'
their car in the garage, the....so we may just be talking about maybe one or two cars that
at times are, you know, opposite each other causin' issues, and so if that is the situation
then maybe, um, to avoid that, either we do what John has suggested, which I think...you
know, you give the residents maybe some, um, and....you know, some say, or we just
switch it to,um.....a rotating parking, uh, you know, Monday on this side, Tuesday on
this side, somethin' like that.
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Throgmorton/So I warma suggest that right now we're doin' basically staff work.
Teague/ Sure!
Throgmorton/And I don't think we need to be spending our time doing staff work. I....I
personally do agree with what Maz brought up and then what Susan recommended in
terms of action,that we ask staff to reach out to the....to the residents,write 'em a letter
and say we're gonna try this for a month, uh, see how it goes, and if it doesn't work
satisfactorily,we'll take the action indicated here.
Salih/Yeah, especially now we are in the snow season and....you might need the snow truck to
go there and we gonna have all the kinds of experience in like from trash pick up to snow
removal (mumbled)
Cole/I really like Susan's point was that I.....I think that really what we're dealing with is all of
us at this table love resident input and we always love empowering residents. So we all
agree with that principle. Staff looks at it,rightfully so, from the technically efficient
(mumbled) so I think Susan's sort of gives us the best of both worlds, as I understand it,
is that it gives us sort of one last opportunity to sort of see how it goes.
Mims/Fix it yourself or we'll fix it for you(laughs)
Cole/Yes, and then saying,hey, if that doesn't get done,then we really go to where staff...and
then we'll monitor that very closely and if there is situations where they can't get through
with the snow plow, I'm for,you know, immediate action to just ensure, even though it's
going to inconvenience the residents, to make sure that we get those streets plowed. So I
think you have a good balance there.
Mims/The only additional thing I would comment is based on the letters, it sounds like there's
people parking there whose houses do not face on that street. So in sending out those
notifications, taking that into consideration that those whose houses back up or driveways
back up to that street are also noticed.
Throgmorton/So part of what I'm hearing is that we should pull Item 8j....
Mims/We don't need to pull it cause it's just correspondence.
Throgmorton/Oh,right! (several talking) Yeah,that's right.
Mikes/(several talking) ...if you adopt it,that'll happen.
Throgmorton/ So okay(several talking)
Mims/It's a prohibition,right. I'm sorry, I was thinking it was just a letter from the residents.
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Dilkes/Just pull it and defer it.
Mims/Okay.
Throgmorton/For separate consideration or just....yeah, okay.
Mims/Pull it and defer it she said.
Throgmorton/Uh, other questions about the agenda?
Salih/No.
Taylor/I just wanted to make a comment about, uh, 8a, the letter from Carol deProsse. It's
always....very nice to get positive letters. So I would like to thank her for that and goes
along with our discussion earlier with Juli in the planting of the trees so, uh, it is much
better to see new trees planted than...than to have them removed. So I....I appreciate that
positive letter from Carol.
Cole/Comment quickly on 8d, Jim, very quickly, the Iowa City deer management.
Throgmorton/ Sure.
Cole/Um....this is totally anecdoted...anecdotal, but I am seein' deer all over the place, in places
that I've never seen them before (laughter) like a buck in my backyard. Urn,never seen
that. I've been here for 20 years. So, urn, tough decision that we previously made,but
I....it is really becoming urgent, and I'm seein' them on Court Street, I'm seein' them on
Lucas, Governor, all over the place. So....
Salih/I used to see 'em only at night. These days I see `em like in the daytime too (several
talking)
Throgmorton/But we're not gonna be able to take any action this winter, right?
Fruin/Well we still may. Yeah, we're gonna go to the DNR. We have to....you know the State
has to authorize it and we're set to go to the DNR in December to ask for that
authorization, again. Remember we went, uh, late spring last year and they said you're
not quite ready. Go back and get some more resident input and....and refine your plan,
put together your committee and come back and we've done all of that. Uh, it's by no
means a slam dunk that they're gonna give us this permit. It, uh, we're the only
community in Iowa that sharpshoots and they have a lot of questions and there's some
skepticism among their....their authorizing committee about the sharpshooting
techniques. So we're gonna give it our best, cause that's what, uh, the community
has....has really asked for, in....in large part here, uh, but you may find yourselves in
December or January faced with a question of....of do you wanna bowhunt or find other,
uh, measures to....to reduce the deer population.
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Cole/They're listening to us. To me it's only a matter of time before...I mean in town deer and
car collisions someone gets hurt. So if you're listening (several talking)
Throgmorton/Okay.
Fruin/Get back to you soon.
Throgmorton/I'd like to ask a question about Item 7e, which is a resolution authorizing to
proceed with construction of the Burlington/Madison, uh, intersection project. So Ron or
Jason, I don't know which one, I wonder if you could give us a sense of...what that
project involves, but I also understand that there might be reason for the project to be
delayed or not done, even if we....at this moment, would like to proceed.
Fruin/Yeah. (mumbled)
Havel/All right, so we'll handle this kinda by committee. I'll handle the, urn,possible delay of
the project. (mumbled) So I'll just talk a little louder. Um, so we had, um, initially
looked at including the Burlington Street bridge as part of a....a federal funding
application that the State is putting together. Um, we actually re...or were notified
probably in the last week or two that that's actually not going to be a good fit for that,
um, for that program. So that's been removed from that application, so I think that, urn,
hurdle to the project has been removed, so not that we won't have to do something with
the Burlington Street bridge here,um, in the not too distant future but it looks like it
won't be part of that program. So I don't think that will have an impact on this project at
this point.
Throgmorton/Okay. Good.
Havel/Then I'll bring Jason Reichart up here to talk about the....the project specifically. He's
the Project Engineer, uh, for the project.
Throgmorton/Hi, Jason!
Reichart/Hi, urn, Jason Reichart, Civil Engineer, uh, Public Works. Um, so brief overview,
we're looking at, uh, widening, uh, Burlington Street essentially from Madison to Front
Street, or to the Burlington Street bridge. Urn, and adding bike lanes, urn, as well as, uh,
kind of restriping. We have some utility work and stuff on Burlington too and on
Madison Street we're looking at a....a road diet essentially, a four to three-lane
conversion, um, from....I believe Market Street down to Prentiss Street. So.....and
included in that'll be a....a traffic signal improvements on Burlington/Madison
intersection as well as Capitol Street intersection, and uh, ADA improvements as well.
Throgmorton/Okay, great, uh.....that's what is in the written material we....we had an
opportunity to read, and I was most concerned about what Jason,back there,just
addressed so....sounds like we're on track to do something we've been wanting to do for
some time now, right?
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Reichart/Yep. Yep.
Throgmorton/Okay, good deal! Thank you.
Reichart/Thanks!
Taylor/Item 8h in the correspondence, the letter from Martha Norbeck. I just wanted to make a
few comments on that. Uh, I'd like to thank her for her comments, urn, and I think I
brought this up before with, urn, developers. I think we in the City have,we spent a lot
of time and had a committee and developed a very aggressive climate action plan, so I
think,uh, a lot of her points bring,uh,true to home that,uh, developers need to be aware
of that and conscious of that and uh,kind of go above and beyond even when they're
developing and looking at ways that,uh, can be,uh, energy efficient, uh,in their
developers. So I....I think they need to take note of this also and....and be aware of that
and do what they can to help us out with our climate action plan.
Throgmorton/At some point we may, uh, need to be considering if...if it's, uh,permissible
according to State law, we may need to be,uh, considering more stringent energy
efficient standards for new building construction. That would be completely consistent
with our climate action plan. I don't know,Ashley, I don't know if our,the committee
that helped us, as the steering committee and now reformulated itself. I don't know if
they've been addressing this or not.
Monroe/Urn....have to forgive me about,urn,not remembering the exact topic. I know that
there is a group that's being put together by the advisory board that are meeting,uh, I
think in early December, or next week I actually think,urn,regarding certain standards
within the development community. So bringing people on board to discuss those types
of issues. Um, as far as, uh, adopting more stringent energy codes,we just need to
determine what....what is permissible by....by our State legislation. Um, whether we can
enforce a code that is more...is more strict than....than what the State's adopted.
Fruin/If I could add to that, I think....I think it's probably more likely that we'll be on the
defense on this issue,um, with our State legislature going forward. There has been talk,
although not serious movement, in the past couple years about limiting cities ability to
adopt the most, uh, recent version of the energy code. So actually to restrict us from
adopting the standard code(both talking)
Throgmorton/Well that's pretty goofy! Why would they do that(both talking)
Fruin/I don't know, um, but there has been talk and it....and who knows. It may come up again,
it may not,urn.....um.....but......just to let you know that we may find ourselves in that
position, and....and not to dissuade us from looking at it. It's in our plan, we should look
at it,but you'll, at the appropriate time, have to weight the....the political risk of pushing
the envelope on some of those measures and perhaps seein' some State push-back,urn, as
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Ashley said we're not quite there yet but that'll be something that you all will have to
weigh when the time comes.
Cole/One super brief comment related to what Geoff just said. Um, we are getting into the 50th
year anniversary of Home Rule. So I do find it irony that it seems like we're going in one
direction when 50 years ago we did a pretty good job of getting it right so....that's my
last editorial.
Throgmorton/ Okay, done with that! Any other questions about the agenda? Okay.
Stewart/Urn, going back to 7e, I have a quick question about the timeline and whether,um, it
would occur at the same time during the Clinton and Burlington intersection? (mumbled)
make sure.
Throgmorton/No....no, Gustave. Clinton and Burlington's already being done, right, and then
we've had trouble with the contractor finishing the work, uh, so (both talking)
Stewart/So it should be done.
Throgmorton/ So, yeah, there's just a little bit left to do at the intersection itself and then the
restriping has to be done on Clinton Street. So we're way ahead on that, except the
contractor's not completing the work.
Reichart/Yeah, we're at a stage now where we're looking at, uh, completing sidewalk
temporarily to kind of button things up for the winter and in the spring coming back and
finishing the sidewalk work and hopefully, uh, over the winter we can get the, uh, the
traffic signalization completed so when we do come back in the spring, we only have the
striping and the,um, the sidewalk work to go, or to complete. Urn, for the Burlington/
Madison project, we're lookin' at a....at a spring, April, um, letting for that project. So
we should be...we should be wrapped up before we start construction on Burlington/
Madison.
Throgmorton/Good deal!
Reichart/Thanks!
Information Packet Discussion [November 22,November 291:
Throgmorton/Thanks, Jason. Any other agenda items? Okay, if not let's move to the info
packet,November the 8th.
Mims/I wanted to...IP3, um, thank Geoff for that article. There were (laughs) there were a
number of things in here that were....um, I think if people take the time and...and I don't
just mean Council. I just mean the public to really read this. I, um....some things I think
most of us don't necessarily think about, but some of the comments in there, and to quote
a couple things that....construction costs alone situates brand new housing outside the
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budget of lower income households. Urn,just how much new construction actually costs,
and especially, uh, when you start factoring in the land prices, and....um,they talked
about luxury housing and the fact that....you know, luxury house versus luxury location,
and you know,those luxury locations are basically due to scarcity of....of housing in
locations where people really want to live, and so, you know, for us that's....that's really
downtown. I mean that's one of the things that's driven up, you know, I think land prices
near the University is, you know, the high demand for....for housing in those areas. Urn,
they had an interesting chart in there also, urn, in terms of basically seeing an inverse
relationship between your vacancy rates and your rental increases. So as your vacancy
rates go up,the rate of rental increases slows down or goes....or they actually go in the
opposite direction. And just a couple of the other things, you know, talking about how
zoning limits can....can drive up costs of housing and various other regulations. So, you
know, again I think when we talk about stricter energy regulations, we have to look at
that also in the context of what does that do to housing costs overall. Certainly it can
lower the....the, urn, utility costs for residents, which can be huge, but just kind of
thinking about all those things, how they interact with each other. And the other thing
that was interesting was how for so many places it's hard to build that missing middle
and, you know, what the form based code that we're ultimately gonna have in a couple
more locations in the community will really help us with that, so, um.....
Throgmorton/Yeah, I sure hope so.
Mims/Yeah.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Mims/And I...and I just want to, you know, kudos to John, cause you're the one that's really
brought that whole missing middle concept to us and I think that's been a real positive.
Thomas/ (both talking)has great potential and I think this article, which I'd also just wanna add
that I don't know how often we've....either the Council or....or Geoff have include uh,
articles on the Strong Towns website but it's an outstanding source of information. I look
at it every day(laughs) and have for probably five years. So it's, urn, it's a really great
source. This was a really great article. Um, but yeah, the missing middle, you know,
which would include accessory units, you know, when we look at, urn,where we can
develop, you know, there are....most of Iowa City is sort of off limits, uh, in what the,
you know, ADU, urn, movement nationwide is opening up single-family zones to
accessory units.
Throgmorton/ADU?
Thomas/Accessory,uh, dwelling unit(several talking) Uh, granny flats, yeah (laughter) So,
you know, if you....if you think about how, in terms of supply, this whole issue of
supply, if you open up the single family zones to second units, urn, it would have a
phenomenal effect on the supply side.
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Cole/Along those lines, John, there already are a lot of locations, urn, in the City of Iowa City
where you can do the accessory dwelling units, so...I think part of our policy role is not
only to identify new policies,but also to daylight, urn, existing opportunities, and I
think...I really encourage people that are thinking of adding a unit for a family loved one,
or for rental income,to determine if it's already possible. Urn, one person I would
mention wold be Martha Norbeck, um, built one for her mother and it's just a fantastic
environmentally sustainable, uh, unit and it is an ADU so....it's good to know about that
as well.
Throgmorton/There's another point about IP #3. The title of it is 'Why are developers only
building luxury housing?' but...and I think it does raise all sorts of valuable questions and
insight,provide insight to the complexity of this housing challenge. But it also
recommends building at the next increment,that the....the housing, or....the building
mass and height and scale and all that should be at the next increment. So if you're
talking about something in a single-family detached housing neighborhood, well the next
increment is duplexes,maybe four-plexes, maybe some of the lower-end missing middle
kinds of things. Uh, and then in a more dense area,the next increment is maybe six and
seven or whatever story buildings, and so on. So....that...that's a part of it as well. It's
kind of like not goin' beyond what you really need,you know, kind of.....kind of get out
in front, but don't go way beyond what you need. Anyhow, I don't want to belabor that
point. I think it is a very interesting article. (both talking)
Salih/I wanna talk about....
Throgmorton/Go ahead, Maz! Sony!
Salih/Uh, I just....I don't remember which item is your letter.
Throgmorton/ Sony?
Salih/The...the letter that you sended to us, the memo? (several talking)
Mims/It's on the 15th? (several talking) Okay, that's all right.
Fruin/ She got that information (several talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/You can bring it up when we get to that, yeah.
Mims/On 1P4,the Census jobs. Is the City...gonna be doing anything to....promote that
opportunity and help, I don't know if we help train people or anything like that or how
that works.
Monroe/Well,we're working right now to establish a, I guess a community awareness
campaign. So, urn, one way we started the....there's the group of staff, urn, Kellie was
included, our Communications staff was included, um, Stefanie Bowers. We sat down to
assess how many community groups we could pull together,uh, to start creating this
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complete count committee. So essentially reaching out to our,uh, community influencers
to try and get everybody on board so that we have a channel of information to push, to
push Census information out and start preparing the public to, urn, take part in....in this
important process. So we do have materials coming in from the Census Bureau, so our
regional office will continue to send materials. Um, today I just sent a follow up email to
our small groups of community organizations that met with us for an initial meeting. Um
(mumbled) one of the job players was in Spanish. I....I included those, so people can
post them. Um, I know that the City's done at least one communication about some of the
Census jobs, urn, and then the plan is to get another meeting together, either sometime in
December or early in the year, and just invite the general public, along with our
community organizations to really start pulling people together and figuring out how
exactly we'll....we'll continue to share information and educate the public on how to,
um, take part and why it's important.
Mims/Uh huh, because when I was reading this it looks like it's going to be all online this time.
Monroe/ It's....it won't be all online, so the....the, so people can participate either through paper
form, online response, or by telephone. So they're adding this online intemet component
that (both talking)
Mims/ Okay.
Monroe/ ...people can probably respond on their smart phones and tablets and things. Urn, we
don't know what that exactly looks like yet so that's unknown that the Census Bureau is
facing and they....communicated that it'll be new. So it....there's a lot of unknowns at
this point.
Mims/ Okay. As long as we're on top of it(mumbled) to the best we can to get everybody
counted.
Throgmorton/This topic was discussed at the National League of Cities meeting I went to in Los
Angeles,uh, a week or so ago, and...one of the, uh, sub-topics that came up had to do
with students, you know, cause electronic outreach to students who are leaving(laughs)
in, I mean....I think there's a lot of this that's gonna take place in May of 2020.
Monroe/Yes!
Throgmorton/Is that right, and....and so there's some concern that students will be in the
process of moving out of Iowa City at that key moment, and....and so on, so I....I don't
have any details to fill in here, but it became a topic of conversation out there.
Monroe/Yeah, we reached out to the Housing,urn, the Student Housing group, um, hadn't heard
a response back from....from the people we contacted but, uh, we'll continue to push
and....and try and get engagement from the University. I figured the Housing (both
talking)
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Mims/In the past the, yeah, in the past the University has been very much engaged,particularly
with students in the dorms, um, and I think in even with communication with off-campus
students,because they understand how important this is to get all the students counted
because it impacts the money that we get as a city. So they've been....I know in....in
2010 they were very much engaged in it. So....
Throgmorton/Other items on the November, what is that, 8th? No, 10th. What is it?
Mims/1P5, um, are we gonna do just one meeting in March then,because the 19th was spring
break. (several responding)
Throgmorton/Yeah, I think that's what we agreed last time, isn't it?
Fruehling/(both talking)....split the difference and then it's not more than two weeks without a
meeting and it's not back-to-back meetings.
Mims/Okay. Okay, I mean that's fine. I....I just wanted to confirm that we're all comfortable
with that, I mean.....just with what we have on the agenda and stuff. That's fine!
(mumbled)
Throgmorton/Yeah, I look...it looked fine to me, uh, though pretty ambitious stretching it out to
December but (laughs) way to get ahead of the game (several talking and laughing) Uh,
I'd like to mention IP #7, the bar check report. And...you know sometimes I like to think
about this statistically. So I wonder if, uh, somebody on staff could present us with....uh,
graphs that show the trends in, what's that, the running trends in previous 12 months,
under 21 and PAULA citation ratios, for each of those major establishments.
Mims/Don't they look like they're getting worse?
Throgmorton/Well I think they are but I (both talking) I'm not tracking it physically, you know,
so I don't know for sure. But then if we could get...have our update contain that trend,
then we know if some businesses are getting better and others are getting worse(laughs)
and then the....the whole, um, bar check report would make a lot more sense from our
point of view I think.
Teague/Isn't there a certain point where they would lose their liquor license for a little bit? If
they had so many citations?
Fruin/No, it's,uh, there's, uh, some exemption certificates that they could lose, if they have
those, or it could prevent them from applying for an exemption to our 21 ordinance.
Teague/ In the past I know some people have been, you know, (mumbled) their liquor license for
a period of time.
Fruin/They're typically related to sale to underage, uh, where we actually send in underage
buyers and they....they sell, usually multiple times,within a period. They can lose their
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liquor license,that's a State decision, um....uh, but these where...we're actually citing the
bar patrons. That....that only reflects negatively on the bar for local ordinance, which is
our under-21 and again only a handful of bars have those exemptions to start with. So...
lot of the problem ones that you see are the....the ones with the highest scores may not
have those exemption certificates, so it really doesn't impact them at all.
Dilkes/A number of years ago we, um, tried to tie the PAULA rate to the liquor license, so that
it could have a ramification on the actual liquor license and the State, we were challenged
and the State said we couldn't do that.
Throgmorton/I know there was some work done related to this involving the State agency, and
Simon, you and I have sat in on many of those conversations.
Andrew/Yeah, the Alcohol and Beverages Division has,uh, spent the last year reaching out to
cities and various stakeholders about whether,uh, the State could put more teeth into the
'good moral character' provision for when we can revoke a liquor license. Uh, so we're
optimistic that that'll be taken up this next legislative session, but um, we're remaining
engaged in that and hopefully we'll see some movement there.
Throgmorton/Brevity. It's a good thing (laughs) Thanks. I wanna mention IP13,which is
minutes of the October 22"d meeting of the Telecommunications Commission. I don't
wanna elaborate on it,but the main thing I notice is they talked a lot about precisely what
we talked about at the last meeting, about trying to figure out what their role should be.
So that's great. Anything else on that packet? Okay, how bout November 15?
Salih/Yeah,which item is your letter? (several responding) Four....I can't even open my
computer and I don't have my glasses today. I'm struggling (laughs)my reading glasses
(laughs) Okay, I just would like you to.....if you can summarize your letter just to tell us
exactly what you mean by all this....and why you decide to put that letter out.
Throgmorton/ Summ....well, summarize it,yeah. Well the...in brief, I think,uh, the proposed
project needs to be scaled down and phased in over time. And I think there are a variety
of risks associated with the full bore (mumbled) 15-story project. Uh, and so what I
really wanted to do was detail why I....did not support moving ahead with four 15-story
buildings at our last meeting. I just wanna make it clear why I....thought it was a bad
idea. And beyond that, let's see, I don't know....you know the....there're like six reasons
why I think there are risks associated with moving ahead, uh, with the four building, 15-
story thing. Uh....so I can go through each of them if you want to, uh.....
Salih/Yes, please.
Throgmorton/All right, uh, I think there's six cred....key reasons why I believe it needs to be
scaled down and phased in over time. All right. So one is that with the maximum
bonuses the project will far exceed what the master plan, which was developed with
extension public participation and support anticipated for the site. That....that's the first
thing. The second is we have already, and there's a typo, we have already approved a
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massive upzoning, which permits the owner to at least quintuple, five rimes, the number
of beds on the site from roughly 200 to roughly a thousand. So that's a huge upzoning.
Third, there's no need to overreach. Upzoning coupled with modest bonuses would still
yield very large increases in the tax base and property tax revenues for the City. Fourth,
an increase in site-specific property tax revenues might be substantially offset by
decreases elsewhere. So we need to be thinking in terms of net property tax revenue over
time, and there are particular reasons why I say that but I'm drawin' on information we
have obtained from people that's been submitted to us. Fifth,there are....the key risks I
think for the developer, and for the City, are the possibility of one, declining enrollments
at the University, and two, a University of Iowa policy decision to require second-year
students to live on campus. I'm not saying they're going to do that,but we do know
they're considering it. We do know that they're gonna tr....uh, start a trial effort,
involving some movement in that direction. And last, the upzoning we already approved
when will...when coupled with modest height bonuses substantially increase the supply of
affordable housing. So it's not an either/or. There....there's, you know, gradation in
between. So,those....those are the...in brief, as brief as I can get it,the main things I had
in mind. I did not, uh....um,put it in the packet in order to create a big conversation at
this moment about it,but I wanted to be clear as I could, in writing, about why I thought
the 15-story four building,uh, idea....would not be a good thing to proceed with, as....as
stipulated.
Salih/I guess, you know, you mean like the all this, you know, thing that you mention, it could
make the....you know the thing that's really grab my attention it could make this project
like fall off or something like that. But....like my understanding is,those people will
borrow money from the bank I guess for this project. Usually those people who give out
money and even the developers themselves or the people who own this, they don't do
something like risk analysis or something like that? I....do you think like the....the bank
will give all this money without doing like a risk analysis or something like....for their
money? To make sure that they will get this money back? I don't know,and I would
like really to know maybe from the City Manager, or from you or from whoever, even if
this project fall off or anything, what effect that have on the City? Like on us?
Throgmorton/Well I....let me present a....a really, um, a hypothetical, um, negative scenario.
I'm not sayin' this is gonna happen, but....it's possible at least. They build the five....
the four 15-story buildings and en...enrollments decline if the University decides to put
all the second year students into living on campus. Then the demand for off-campus
student housing will go way down. Occupancy rates in that cluster of buildings will
probably drop, or if not in that cluster of buildings in a bunch of others. And we'll have
buildings that are un....underutilized....and what landlords,people who own apartment
complexes have told us is that they believe their properties will be devalued in that kind
of scenario and therefore our property tax revenues would change in ways that we don't
really like! So I....I'm not sayin' that literally will happen,but I think it's possible, and I
know that there are other people out in this community who are really worried about this,
cause I've talked to 'em.
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Salih/I guess (mumbled) banks should worry too and don't give money for this project, so the
project's not gonna go ahead. You know I just feel like there is people who are really
specialized on doing this kind of analysis,just like that's my understanding, uh, I really
don't know a lot about this area,but you know,just like think about it,you know....if
this,the....the developer is not building this like from his own bucket money. Of course
he....or some, you know, some of it...I mean like not the whole thing, at least usually I
see that they go to the bank and get some money and they put some money and all this
kinds of things. That's why, you know, you come with this risk(mumbled) like you
know like really there is some risk you....what you see, also the bank should see the same
thing. And the other people who are....the developer should see the same thing, uh,that
you seeing. And I....I just think that it should be like really risk analysis has been done
somehow for this project, and if...the bank want move forward with this project, that
means they already put all this kind of thing in consideration. That's why they give out
the money, or they will give out the money. Anyway, um, I'm really, you know, I'm still
comfortable about my position, but....I just would like to know,you know, the City
should have like, uh, figure out a process to determine, you know, the developer risk that
if it could happen, what...was the risk to the City? Are we affected by anything that my
question was, because of this. Otherwise I'm really still comfortable about my position.
Throgmorton/Well it could be we'll have another opportunity in the future to talk about this, in
relation to everything else, what...whatever the majority of the Council wants to do is
what we're gonna do.
Salih/I understand but you know we just(unable to understand) when you say there is risk, that
what grab my attention of course and I'd like to know is this something....are we doing
something risk to us as a city (unable to understand)just wanna like make sure where I'm
voting, I'm voting right you know.
Throgmorton/Yeah. Reasonable.
Salih/That's why I ask this question. Thank you.
Teague/ (mumbled) questions about the...the master plan, which you've noted,the project will
far exceed what the master plan is, and I....I guess I'm confused by that. Only because I
thought,um, that the master plan that we saw in that location,um, there could be 15
stories according to the....while that's the code, um....
Throgmorton/Form based code.
Teague/ ...form based code. So how...are....are, so....I guess I'm a little confused by...by the
statement about the project far exceeds the master plan.
Throgmorton/It's my understanding the master plan called for buildings that would be four to
seven stories in height for that site. But it didn't say that's what it must be, and it also
said height bonuses could be permitted. It could...and that was a part of the plan, and the
implementing component or the....what....what was supposed to be implementing the
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plan is the form based code. So....what's....what's being proposed in terms of 15 stories
is consistent with the form based code,but I believe it's far...it far exceeds what the
master plan itself originally contemplated for that area.
Teague/The form based code was developed after the master plan, is that correct?
Throgmorton/Yeah, sure.
Salih/But(both talking)
Teague/Okay. I...I was just tryin' to get clarification there. Um....I don't know that I have
anything else right now.
Salih/(several talking) ...really my understanding the master plan is,uh, for Riverfront Crossing
you can build high on the corners, that my understanding. I don't know, correct me if
I'm wrong. (several responding)
Fruit)/ ...the master plan does, did state up to 15 stories I believe on the corner,the....the, two
very specific corners.
Cole/And, Geoff, you're going to be coming with a report here pretty soon with your
negotiations and so we'll have an opportunity for another,um,work session on this,
correct?
Salih/ Okay.
Fruin/Well, yeah, if you want to transition to that. It's, uh, kind of related to this item, um, but
more your pending work session list. The, uh, applicant, uh, for the developer I should
say,um, submitted a...what I would call kind of a pre-height bonus application, uh, it's
fairly lengthy in....in,urn, size. It's about 50, 60 pages. Um, and I think it does a good
job of showing their intent,but it by no means meets the requirements that we would look
for in a, um, a design review application. So the....there's no renderings, there's no floor
plans, but there is certainly advancement in their....in their thought on building
placement, on,uh,how to satisfy affordable housing, a number of the things that you all
have really focused on in our initial discussion. So, urn, at this point it's, urn, I think it's
in a....I don't know that there needs to be a lot of back and forth with the staff and the....
and the developer on this. I think it's ready to come back to you and help you formulate
or....or help you kind of finish your....your discussion. Ultimately what the developer
wants is some type of....I can't say commitment from Council because it's a work
session. You're not voting, you're not giving them that height bonus, but....but some
sort of,urn,head nod from you at a work session that said if this is your intent and you
can execute this intent in your design, then the majority of Council will support it,
because they're....they're lookin' at probably a few hundred thousand dollars in design
costs to be able to get to the point where they can meet yat...that application, um, you
know,the level of detail that we would require. So, understandably they're a little
skittish right now cause they don't know where the majority of the Council will fall,um,
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so what I would like to do is schedule a work session in December, either December 4th
or 18th. Uh,the developer would prefer the 4th,uh,we already have our solar,um,
consultant coming from Nebraska to....to meet with you on that,uh, on that evening. If
you'd like to do both we can. Their....their application would be in your next, not
tomorrow's info packet, but....but next week's info packet, and again I think it would
help you,um, maybe get to that point where you can give them that assurance, or at least
you could say you're not quite there yet, you need to do X, Y, and Z and that....then
hopefully they have the confidence to invest in the design work,to actually put together
an application that would then go through staff to P&Z to you for final approval.
Throgmorton/That sounds like a reasonable step to make,but I wanna toss out a fact that may
have a bearing on this. I....I doubt that I'll be here on the 18th. So....(several talking)
Fruin/ ...good to have a full Council for this discussion(several talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah, and I wanna be present for that.
Fruin/So the 4th, if we....if we started at 4:00....
Cole/I was gonna say we gotta do the 4:00.....at least that's my preference.
Fruin/And I'm not sure which order we'll go. We'll talk with the consultants to see if they can
maybe start at 4:00 and give them...give them an hour, urn, so that they're wrapped up by
5:00 and that would give ya an hour or so for...for this.
Throgmorton/(mumbled) any objection to that, folks? 4:00 on the 4th?
Salih/4:00, okay.
Fruin/If for some reason the consultant can't get there at 4:00,we'll do 12 Court first. Uh, we'll
have to put a hard end to it so that....I assume the consultants maybe havin' to travel back
to Omaha or wherever they're from.
Throgmorton/Okay. All right, other items on that....what was it the 15th? November 15th info
packet?
Mims/Uh.....IP5,uh, nice to see the letter on the LEED City,that we've achieved that. Um....
Throgmorton/Is staff planning to issue a local press release pertaining to that?
Fruin/Certainly can. I'm not sure if it's in the works or not but we can.
Monroe/Yeah, we can. Um....this is the....the notification essentially that we are at a high level
of Star achievement....
Throgmorton/Right.
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Monroe/ ....integrated the Star program, you know that we've worked very hard to....to achieve,
urn, into the LEED for cities and communities. So it's kind of building on that, U.S.
Green Building Council program and then this is just, it's notifying us that we're part of
that (several talking)
Mims/ ...what about five or six years ago or....
Throgmorton/Yeah, somethin' like that.
Monroe/We're working on, uh, recertification, uh, at this point.
Mims/No, I would agree, Jim. I think it's good to do some sort of public release (both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...now and then. Yeah. Any other items?
Fruin/Just like to mention if you haven't got through them all we did give you an update, uh,
from NDS on the affordable housing action plan. This is the original plan, uh, still gettin'
to a few, uh, of those remaining items and we think we'll be able to check those off the
list,uh, sometime in early 19, and then of course as your new strategic plan,
we're....we're kind of, uh, contemplating some....some different strategies, uh, to present
to you in 19 as well.
Mims/ Checked off a lot!
Throgmorton/I was glad to see that, IP#....sorry....IP #7, I was glad to see that the First
Unitarian Church was approved for listing in the National Register of Historic Places.
Yeah. Anything else on the November 15`h packet? If not, let's go to Council updates on
assigned boards, commissions, and committees. We'll start with John,move to the left.
Council updates on assigned boards, commissions and committees:
Thomas/Um....well one thing I'll mention was at our most recent ICAD meeting, uh,there was
a presentation by the new President of,uh, Kirkwood Community College, which led to,
um, I think it was Mark Nolte asked, uh, so what....what are your thoughts about, uh,the
potential closing of, um, and I don't have my notes in front of me here, the, uh,the small
college in southeast Iowa (both talking)
Cole/Wesleyan.
Thomas/Wesleyan, urn, which then led to just a more general conversation about the...there's a
bit of a squeeze, you know, um, in higher education in terms of the supply and the
demand, and uh, what that might mean at various levels really. Um, so it was kind of a
sobering conversation, uh, because I think the Midwest, I mean coming from outside the
Midwest, I have always really been, urn, very....very, uh, enamored with (laughs) the
small colleges of the Midwest. I think they're a wonderful expression of Midwestern
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cultures so think....I think some of the most charming places in Iowa are the small towns
that have the small colleges. Urn, so there is this threat there now,urn,that, you know,
there's extraordinary amount of competition at...in higher education to....to attract
students to their institution. And I think....I, my feeling is it's...it is happening at the
larger schools as well as the smaller schools, um, so it was,uh, it was just an interesting
conversation having started with Kirkwood and then leading to more general
conversation.
Throgmorton/Rockne?
Cole/I don't have a ton of news for the City of Literature. We're meeting again on November
27th and so I anticipate for our next meeting I'll have more of an update in terms of the
game plan for the spring, and in particular how to apply for the 'One Book, Two Book.'
If you got some student writers out there,um,keep an eye out for that, but I don't have a
ton of details,urn,right now.
Throgmorton/Maz?
Salih/Yeah(mumbled) (laughs) Okay, um.....what I have report...I went to Kirkwood College
and present a, uh,to the students,uh, it was great and um....I guess we attend the student
government meeting, what was that? (mumbled)for the Access Center. I just(unable to
understand) of that. I was there, and uh, also....you know they pass resolution support
the Labor Center, which was great. Uh, I just like,to me it was interesting seeing the
student, for me(unable to understand) setting. I never saw it before, like even in my
country we don't have that. It was really interesting to see like young leaders are doing
like government stuff and a lot....student who are passionate to be, you know, a leader
one day. And, um....I think.....that's all! (mumbled)
Teague/Urn, on Sunday the 11t'I was able to go to,uh,the Englert,urn, and see....it was a play
called the Absolute Brightness and there was, um, it was quite interestin', cause there was
only one actor, and it was,uh,very,um,very entertainin' but um, cause it was a....an
excellent actor,but the message was, um,hit against LGBT was the underlying message
and it was about the Trevor Project, which essentially was,um....um, an individual that
was killed because they were,um....uh, a person within the LGBTQ community. Urn, I
did have a chance to do a...um,meeting with Frederick Newell at the Dream Center on
Tuesday....on Monday, I'm sorry,the 12a'. Um, and that was, I was very encouraging,
um, and I go back to,uh, when you all went to,uh, out of town how you all saw that, I
forget the name of the project.
Cole/Youth First?
Teague/Youth First project, and so, um, yeah, I.....the Dream Center does some great things and
I was happy to learn a little more about what they do. Um, on Tuesday the 13th I went to
the Johnson County Livable Community Transportation Committee meeting and there I
did bring up,um,you know the concern,um,that Maz brought up about, uh, bringin'
transportation, uh, in the interim to our, uh, community and,uh, seein' if they had any
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interest in,um, submitting something for the Council to consider. Um, they do not,urn,
that's not a part of what their role is. It really is a committee that just,um, different
entities come together and just report what they're doing, and so,urn,they're
not....they're not the committee, urn, to submit anything to the Council for
recommendations. I did,urn, attend the Iowa City employee appreciation at Terry
Trueblood and that was,urn, great to see so many people. I'm not even sure how many
actually attended. Do we know? Um....
Fruin/I think we had about 260 or 70 employees, which is a good number for us.
Teague/Oh it was awesome. So, yeah, I thought it was a...um, a great day, a great event, and
appreciated that. Um, other than that,urn, I did attend yesterday on Monday the 19th
Johnson County Task Force on Aging and there they did a,um,presentation,urn,
essentially on,urn,preventing,urn, fraud, uh, specifically for elderly people. So they
gave some pointers,urn, for elderly people. And I kind of had a full week. Urn, I met
with six people within our community, or past two weeks, six people within the
community just to listen to their concerns and, urn, I'm learnin' to listen. (laughter)
Throgmorton/Think you already know how to listen(laughter) Pauline?
Taylor/I had the great opportunity to attend the InvestHealth convening in Atlanta. Uh, along
with Tracy. It's always a pleasure to,uh,meet and talk with groups of people from cities
all across, uh,the country and realize that we're not alone in our struggles to have a
healthy, livable, sustainable community,but one thing that's, uh, always stuck out for me
is,uh, the number of cities, and Tracy,maybe you can relate to this too,that are
concerned with areas of food desert within their communities and so I've always been
very thankful that this doesn't seem to be an issue in our community. Uh,we've got
grocery stores all over the place and we're...our,uh, food markets and uh, farmers
markets so,uh,that's....that's always very, uh,positive to hear that but I was very proud
of our city because Tracy was one of several panel members and she talked about our
affordable housing action plan, our, um, the guide to healthy homes handouts that,uh,
she was helpful in designing, and our....actually our equity toolkit, and uh, after,uh, after
the panel discussion, several members, quite a few members of the audience, asked for
copies of all of these things. So that....that really puffed me up,made me proud that our
city has done a lot and these other cities are taking not...taking notice of that. And,
uh....I'm gonna tell a story,Tracy(laughs) I told her not to tell this because I was a little
bit embarrassed by it,but the more I thought about it the more I thought Tracy needed to
be recognized for what she did. Urn, a....a group of us afterwards decided we were going
out to eat(mumbled) Missoula and I think it was Eau Claire maybe and a steak restaurant
was recommended to us,uh, so once we got seated and we were eating(laughs) and, uh,
literally...I literally bit off more than I could chew and I started choking, and it...I...it was
very scary,very scary situation and a table of like 10 people and,uh, nobody really knew
what to do. Somebody ran to get the waitress but of course she was this young thing, she
didn't know what to do,but Tracy...sprung into action. She was seated next to me so I
stood up and she got behind me, did the Heimlich and out came that piece of steak, so I'll
forever be thankful to Tracy for doing that. Thank you,Tracy(several talking)
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Throgmorton/Susan?
Mims/Urn, meeting....meetings for the Access Center continue to go well. Urn,we have on our
agenda tonight the, finally the first reading for the rezoning(laughs) we've got all the
signatures of all the various owners, plus the County, so we can get that done. Um, lot of
subcommittees that are meeting in terms of, uh, the governance structure and,urn, the
building and the land and getting the architect moving on some things, urn, if we agree to
condense our second and third readings at the December 4th meeting, then the County
will close on the property on, as originally scheduled, on December 14th. So assuming
that we don't have any controversy and can agree to that, urn,they would be really
excited to do that. They, urn, plan to start moving dirt as soon as feasibly possible,
depending upon winter weather. Urn, have to bring dirt in to raise that site, urn, so we get
out of the 500-year flood plain for where the building is going to be. Urn,but just lots of
things going on between....Eleanor's probably having some discussions too with some of
the governance stuff and we've gotta get the 28E agreement done, but it's moving
forward, urn, I would say the people who've been involved in those committees for the
last two-plus years, you can just kind of see the excitement just starting to grow a little bit
as people start realizing this thing's actually going to happen. So....um, still got a ways
to go but we're seeing some....some significant progress.
Throgmorton/So the....only a few(mumbled) legal technicalities that have to be worked through
and (both talking)
Mims/Yeah, it's like when I came to meet with Geoff and Eleanor and a couple reps from the
PD and I was like, yeah, we have these like three different things probably that we need
to have for the 28E and by the time Eleanor gets done the list is like this long(laughs)
you know,just that difference from what a lay person thinks of in terms of those
technicalities and what the experts know needs to be involved, so yeah. We'll get there,
but....uh....people are really excited.
Throgmorton/We're very lucky to have a really outstanding City Attorney.
Mims/We are!
Throgmorton/I'm gonna mention(both talking)
Mims/And staff!
Throgmorton/ Sorry!
Mims/And full staff. She's got good people.
Throgmorton/Absolutely. So I'll just mention...I'm just gonna mention two things, uh, very
briefly. Uh, the Convention and Visitors Bureau board met on the 20...the 15th of
November. Uh, not much happened. Period. Also, I need to reach out to Tanya
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 20, 2018.
Page 33
Vilhauer,maybe, Simon, you can help me with this, to, you know, to see, try to figure out
when we're gonna meet next and I think we need an update about the....uh,the... the
fraternities suspensions and how that's playing out. I feel pretty ignorant about it at the
moment. Yeah, that's it for me. Anything else? Okay, we're done with the work session
for tonight. Yeah, really(laughter)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of November 20, 2018.