HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-12-04 Transcription Page 1
Council Present: Cole, Mims, Salih,Teague, Taylor, Thomas, Throgmorton
Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe, Andrew, Dilkes, Fruehling,Knoche, Havel, Hightshoe,
Morns,Nations, Sitzman, Bockenstedt, Sovers, Clow, Seydell-Johnson,
Barker
Others Present: Stewart, Wu(UISG)
Review solar feasibility study 1IP3, IP4, IP51:
Throgmorton/Okay, I'd like to begin the Iowa City City Council's work session agenda for
Tuesday, December the 4th, 2018. First topic on the agenda is to review the solar
feasibility study, which we commissioned. Is someone gonna speak about this?
Monroe/Yes, I will introduce it! Urn, so good afternoon, good evening,uh, late last year
Council had,uh,requested a further exploration of the feasibility of a solar, um, some
type of solar photovoltaic system or fixture at one of our City facilities. I know there was
interest,urn, in what that could look like as it pertained to our development of the climate
action and adaptation plan, or for....for just a variety of reasons, uh, looking to see if,uh,
solar,urn, system would be possible at one of our facilities. So we went out for a request
for proposals. We identified the firm Bluest....Bluestem Energy Solutions. They're in
Omaha,Nebraska,uh, as the right team to evaluate our facilities for such a project, and,
urn, so tonight we have a...couple of them here to represent Bluestem,uh,Jamie
Goldenberg and Srikanth Madala, and they'll be presenting a short summary of the study,
of their analysis, and what they found. Um,they'll also be providing City Council a
recommendation as to....as to that analysis, and urn....I'll....I'll probably take it, let you
guys take it from here! Thanks!
Goldenberg/Well thank you for havin' us here, uh,this evening. It's been a pleasure working
with your City staff. They've been very helpful with us.
Cole/Could you speak into the mic(mumbled)
Goldenberg/Yes! Is that better?
Cole/Yeah.
Goldenberg/So I'm Jamie Goldenberg. I'm an Energy Consultant with Bluestem. This is
Srikanth Madala. He leads our Research and Development Team,um,big part of our
development. Urn, so we just have a few slides here to kind of high level go over what
we went through in our feasibility study, mostly focused on the recommendation portion.
Urn, I don't know....I know the Mayor had a chance to read through our feasibility study.
So,uh, I think just for time concerns,we have...we can hold questions off till the end.
Um, and we'll just kind of jump right in. So....what we're hopin' to go through today is
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just give you a high level of what we went through in our feasibility study; talk about the
value stack that we saw from Iowa City based on the RFP,based on conversations we
had with staff;um, go through some comparable cities that we, uh,we recognized as we
were doing research on Iowa City; uh, and then really dive into our analysis and final
recommendation. So, high level overview of what we went through with the RFP is we,
uh, we researched eight different locations, eight different municipal-owned facilities.
The RFP started with six. Throughout this process we added two on, which were Terry
Trueblood and the Robert A. Lee Rec Center, and at each one of these facilities we
analyzed what the current cost was for electricity, what the usage was like, and then we
would overlay that with solar generation and....at the end of....after doing that we took a
couple of the constraints, as far as geographical constraints,uh,physical constraints,
technical constraints, and that really sized our project. From there we went into a
financial analysis,understanding construction costs,understanding,uh, you know what
type of visibility you were looking at and what I mean by that is in the RFP itself and
through conversations we had, a big part of looking at some solar PV on your municipal
facilities was you were....you wanted some visible solar arrays for...for like your
constituents, for your citizens to come by and drive and see. So we took that into account
as well, and then obviously the greenhouse gas emissions. As Ashley mentioned, your
climate action plan,that...those are, so you have some aggressive goals there, you know,
26,28%by 2025, 80%by 2050. So those were what really we measured throughout this
process,and uh, a big part of this was looking at the finance....the financials going
forward with the project. So....as we had conversations with your City staff, going
through the RFP, the big things that we really took away from what you valued as far as
this project was low cost electricity and we wanted to figure out what's the best economic
solution to build one of these projects, or several of these projects at different locations;
the return on visibility as we just mentioned; the greenhouse gas emissions; and then
obviously the economic development aspects of a project like this. So....um.....how our
project started was we really looked at all eight different sites. So Srikanth and the
development team, they did, the looked at 14, 15 different designs,um, about three to
four at each site. Uh,we couldn't even fit 'em all in this one slide, so we just wanted to
give you kind of an example of what we did. At each different site we looked at rooftop
arrays. We looked at parking lot arrays. We looked at ground mount arrays at different
sizes, and what led to those sizes was...was how much electricity was that facility using,
and then from there we were able to determine if it made economic sense to go forward
with that type of project. So one example is the pool house, very small rooftop,very little
energy usage,very seasonal. So with us, with the net metering laws in place in...in the
state of Iowa with Mid American, that one economically just didn't make sense to go
forward with. So we knew that was one of the first ones that kind of got removed from,
uh,the `yes/no/should you go forward with this' with a solar array at this site. Although
the visibility at that one was....would have been a great one given it would....right on the
roof by the pool. Um,just really a high level of what we went through at each site, and
then what this really led to was our overall project analysis. So this.....this site actually
isn't in the feasibility study itself. In the feasibility study you'll see we broke down each
site as a project payback if you want to look at it individually. Bluestem,what we do as a
company is we are owner-operators and developers of low carbon, renewable energy type
projects. So what we were really asking ourself was, if today Iowa City wanted to go
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forward with the project, what is the best solution for you all to move forward with? So
we looked at this from an ownership perspective as if Iowa City was to go out and make
this investment into your community, what's the best possible scenario for you? Um, so
that's really what this slide is....is analyzing. So you'll see here we have four different
scenarios. The scenario one and two are really looking at minimal visibility, so this is
more rooftop array type, uh....it's more of a rooftop solar array. So you're drivin' by on
the street you're not necessarily going to see these solar arrays. Um, and then the
scenario three and four we're looking at more maximum visibility, looking at more
(mumbled)little more ground arrays,urn, to maximize the visibility there, and you can
see the different scenarios at different,uh, at different amounts of sites. Scenario one and
two have three sites, while scenario three and four have six, and the difference between
these scenarios is we really looked at the different ownership structures, and that led to
the, you know, the savings and the investment Iowa City would have to make. So you'll
see in scenario one and three,that's looking at if Iowa City was to make the investment
themselves, if you were to go through and own these...own, operate, and maintain these
solar arrays,urn,that's what those, scenario one and three are looking at. Scenario two
and four,what these savings are showing is what it....your savings would be versus
ownership. So this one would be your savings over the life of the project, and we did a
25-year period. That's generally what the life of these, uh,technology, generally the life
of this technology. So we looked at the savings versus ownership,uh, from Iowa City, if
you were to go forward with a third-party,public/private partnership,where that third
party could take advantage of the investment tax credits that come along with solar. So
you'll see here,just...high level example,uh, from one...scenario one and two. This is
where you're getting your best economics with one of these two projects. You would
have to list,well, you have minimal visibility,um, you would have a big ground mount
array at the waste water treatment plant,but the one at Robert A. Lee and the one at the
Mercer...at Mercer Park, where you'll probably have more....more folks driving by every
day,this .....that's more...that's more a rooftop array we were looking at there. Um, but
what this....I wanted to show you an example here is that the NPV is what we looked at
for,uh, scenario one and three, and what this is saying is that the initial investment into
this 1.2-megawatt project in scenario one would cost roughly$2.5 million and your NPV
over the life of this project, at a 5% discount rate, you would be seeing a negative$2.3
million NPV. So you're making back a little bit of money over that 25 years,but the
overall investment, you're not gonna....you're not gonna really see a return on that
investment as far as,um, getting money back on your investment here. A lot of that is
due to your current electric rates. They're....they're very low. A lot of that's due to the
net metering policies in the state with Mid American and,um, so we were taking that
with the current parameters, even taking into account inflation and projected current rate
increases. And what we compared that to was if you went through a third public....third-
party public/private partnership, same project, same economics, you would see a$1.3
million savings versus making that initial investment. So for Iowa City what that would
look like over 25 years, you would be spending roughly$1.3 million. So this is taking
into account, again, current electric rates, how much you'd be offsetting, and projected
rate incleas....projected rate increases,plus inflation, and what that really breaks down to
month-per-month if you're looking at your electric bill, it's about$45,000 more per
month on this first scenario. So that is what it would look like if Iowa City, today,
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wanted to go forward with this type of project. And we just wanted to give you kind of
that high level overview of what it would look like owning it versus working through a
third-party, and being able to take advantage of the tax credits. Urn,what we also looked
at, which isn't on this,which is on the feasibility study in the conclusion section is
looking at each site,breakdown by breakdown, and you'll see there, if you flip to the
back of that feasibility report is you'll see that Terry Trueblood actually has a pretty
decent payback. I believe it's 17 years or so,which....if you were to go forward with one
project, um,that might be the best economic project,because you'll actually see it
payback within that 25-year period. Urn,however, when we ran economics to aggregate
some projects, really try to reach economies of scale, this is what the numbers really led
to is working in these....these individual projects, and then the very bottom here, uh, one
thing that we wanted to calculate was what your change in your greenhouse gas
emissions would be. We're seeing with that 1.2-megawatt project it's roughly 14%, 9%
on the 800KW project, and this is taking into account the best data we had available,
using some of the EIA data(mumbled)were able to break down the emissions in their
different counties. So we were able to get,urn, you know,between John...Johnson and
Muscatine County what roughly the energy mix is and what this project would roughly
offset. Uh, so this is....you know,those are estimates, but that's projected about what
you'd receive as far as greenhouse gas emissions. Urn,what I want to show you next was
just, when we were doing research, we were...we wanted to look at other like
communities, you know, other communities with major universities in town who also
have similar,uh, sim...similar sustainability goals. Um, so...what I wanted just to show
here is....this isn't meant to be a knock on the City of Iowa City be any means. What this
is just showing is that you'll see in Madison and in Ann Arbor,they both have pretty
aggressive goals. Madison obviously 100%greenhouse gas emissions, Ann Arbor,uh,
trying to reach 100% of their...their power usage coming from renewable or clean
sources, and the investments that they've made back into their community. What I really
just want to show you here is that there's many communities like this with similar
demographics, to the City of Iowa City, and what they've done is they've put this
investment back into their community. So it's whether Iowa City wants to do this or not.
It's up to you, obviously, but what Madison's done each year over the past few years is
they've added 750,000 to a million dollars into their budget to focus on sustainability
goals, and part of that, which is....which is led to them investing in a$14 million..or 14-
megawatt, excuse me, 14-megawatt solar project. And then Ann Arbor, similar type
structure and they've invested into a....to a solar array in 2013, landfill gas generation
and some hydro....hydro-electricity in their facility as well. So,urn,we just wanna show
you here that this is happening around the country,um,you know we weren't...can't say,
I don't know how your budget looks, if you've been budgeting for....to put investment
into a solar array, if you wanted to own it and operate it. Just wanted to kind of give you
a little more of a, I guess regional view of what's been going on with similar,with
communities with similar demographics here, and you know, fmally....really what
Bluestem would recommend,if the City of Iowa City wants to move forward with this
project, given the current....given the current,uh, economics of your projects, the current
parameters that we were given with the RFP,we would suggest moving forward with a
third-party,public/private partnership. Why? It's because you avoid the upfront capital
costs. You're gonna save roughly$1.3 million to $500,000 if you went with one of those
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suggested projects. Urn, it'd even be, you know, obviously less if you went with just that
one—Terry Trueblood project, and um....with working with a third-party, public/private
partnership,they're able to take advantage of the investment tax credits,which leads to a
lot of those savings, and if you look forward, you know,you're gonna see a slight
increase in your month-to-month bill,uh, depending on what size of project you wanted
to go with,but that would be our recommendation. What we'd recommend if you want
to try to increase the say....the economics of your project is to partner with some of your
stakeholders in your community. Urn,you know Bluestem, we work a lot with electric
cooperatives across the country, so when we were doing this project, obviously East...
Eastern Power and Light, they provide electricity to your waste water treatment plant,
and if you could team up with them, you could really increase the size of your project,
and they have less clean energy than Mid Am does, so that would also increase your
greenhouse gas emissions, and so these are just ideas that we would, you know,that we
would say look....we would recommend looking into. Uh, we know throughout this
process,we have some other partnerships that we got brought into a conversation about
the University of Iowa interested in renewable energy. So, you know, if you wanted to
team up with the University,there's other possibilities there to increase, again,just to
increase economies of scale, and....so those would be,you know, situations that we
would look into,urn, or that Iowa City would look into to help, you know, even get more
savings or you know,potentially get more towards the black as far as an investment into
solar generation and, um, the other note that we really just wanted to make here, speaking
of, you know,working with a third-party,uh, these solar tax credit, investment tax
credits,they're at....they're at a 30%, uh, investment tax credit right now and that lasts
through 2019. Starting in 2020 it goes down to 22%. So,urn,that could just....that could
be a decision-maker in if you wanted to move forward in the next calendar year. Uh, if
you do want to do a project like that,that would be something that you definitely should
take into account as far as, you know, understanding,working with that third-party. Uh,
they can take advantage of a 30% investment tax credit which definitely can help the
economics, uh,versus 22%. Urn, so that's really....that's kinda what we just wanted to
discuss today. I know we were,um (mumbled) or so. Urn, any questions?
Throgmorton/My guess is there's a lot questions but I wanna ask one of Geoff Fruin and Ashley
Monroe over here. We've talked about third-party before. Can we do third-party
relationships in the way that they've just described? Okay, I was under the impression
we could not. I don't know why but....maybe I misunderstood prior conversations.
Monroe/I think that's what the County has with....
Throgmorton/Yeah, I knew(both talking)there was some.
Cole/It was challenged about five years ago and the Iowa Supreme Court said that you could do
it, is my recollection.
Throgmorton/Okay, well that....that answers my question though, so we have that possibility we
could pursue. Okay, do y'all have questions for Jamie or Srikanth,who didn't have a
chance to say anything(laughs)
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Cole/I have a question regarding the carbon....reductions. Does that include what we would
save if Mid American does go to 100%,urn, renewable energy with wind? Urn, and the
second question is related to that is people always talk about, well, Mid American's
gonna go to 100%wind. Is there any need for solar if they do go to 100% wind? Mid
American.
Goldenberg/I can take that first part. Urn, so that was taken into current,urn,what...what's
currently available to us as far as,uh, information available. So that's....that's just
current today. Uh,that definitely would change if Mid Am,you know, increased that
percentage. (both talking)
Madala/Those numbers Jamie is showing are from EPA data, 2017. So....it might change but
...if you see,um, you gotta serve your base load, what they call the base load,urn,with
some kind, uh....with going 100%wind,uh, is not very feasible. You still have to have a
base load, certain percentage of base load, which....which still has to come from either
natural gas or....or,today it's coming from coal and,uh,nuclear, or natural gas. Uh....
Cole/ So there will still be some (both talking) in terms of even if they do go "100%"to wind,
there's still gonna be a benefit for adding additional solar infrastructure into our own
community, in terms of net reduction(both talking)
Madala/Right. When we say 100%wind,we have to realize that when wind is not blowing, it's
not 100%. You gotta serve that load,uh,through something else,which....which I call
like peak unit or ba...you know, or some other unit, which still consume some kind of
fuel,uh,and also,um, so I think in one of our conversations I mentioned that solar
usually complements well with wind, you know, when wind is not blowing usually sun is
shining well and like usually wind is quite good in....in,uh,winter season. Uh, solar is
quite good in summer. So it kind of complements each other, so it's....I don't see,uh, I
probably see it as a benefit,where they're complementing each other, second part of your
question. Um....
Throgmorton/So, Rockne, our late handout includes a memo from Martha Norbeck, excuse me,
my voice is off today. Uh, and in it,uh, Martha draws attention to the importance of peak
load,uh,peak demand for electric energy and as Srikanth was just suggesting, the peak
demand for electric energy occurs in the summer, and yet that's the worst time for wind.
So there's this gap, and the gap's filled apparently, Mid American apparently fills that
with fossil fuel-based technologies. Natural gas primarily, I think, but then....probably
some coal somewhere. But in any event,there's an opportunity som...if we can fill that
gap, that peak demand gap,with solar technologies, then we would be offsetting carbon
emissions that are being generated during those peak conditions. So,that's....there's
some promise in that, seems to me.
Goldenberg/We were talking yesterday on the car ride up too. Mid Am has a very favorable net
metering policy, um, one of the best we'd say probably in the country too, and we think
part of the reason for that is because they do have so much wind generation, and they
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understand that they can get more solar onto their grid (mumbled)benefiting what
they've done with wind.
Madala/They have a very(unable to understand) if you compare it with other parts of the
country. Uh....
Cole/Related to the cost savings with third-party purchase agreements, it's my understanding
those have been in place now in Iowa for approximately six to seven years, is that about
right? About that timeframe? Um,what I'm wondering is is it the tax credit, is that what
sort of rips the scales in terms of making that the more affordable option, in terms of the
City as opposed to if there weren't the tax credit, would be to our advantage to just
outright purchase the solar arrays?
Goldenberg/Yes (both talking)
Madala/ Surely.
Goldenberg/I mean,yeah,you're increasing your overall costs by....30%roughly. So if you
were to buy it versus if a Bluestem was to come and build it, and own it and operate it.
So yeah, it's a big....it's a big financial benefit.
Throgmorton/So your report, I found, uh,parts of your report to be pretty, uh, inspiring,uh,
especially when I looked at, uh, the simulations of arrays for each of the eight facilities
that you looked at. Mercer Park, for example,uh,there's a tremendous amount of
electric energy that can be generated by using car....whatdaya call 'em, car(several
talking)carport designs, but also rooftop designs and then perhaps a....a stand along...
facility. Whatdaya call that (several talking) ground mount, thank you. Uh,but also
....um, what was it....you identified Robert A. Lee also as a possible site that would
generate a substantial amount of electric energy, and....what was the one other one I....I
know I have it written down(laughs) somewhere. But there was....in.....in your list of
three, in scenario....one (both talking)
Goldenberg/ ...the waste water treatment plant?
Throgmorton/Yeah,the waste water treatment plant. So it's pretty inspiring to see all the
possibilities there and....I know the paybacks are not good, though they can be a lot
better if we do rely on third-party, a 30....a third-party supplier, as you described. But,
there are lots of other values at stake. Last week this report was issued about climate
change and the impacts globally, and it....it really does not look good, and it seems to me
that a really crucial value for us to be promoting is to demonstrate to us and to the public
and especially to the people of Iowa City that we're playing our part in reducing those
carbon emissions and reducing the threat of climate change, to the extent that we can.
And one way to do that....is to....build some of these systems, and also I was inspired by
what you wrote with regard to public education and marketing, and later on in your
report. It was a long report, so it's kinda hard to get there,uh,but there are lots of great
ideas in that part that could be built, easily built,into our climate action plan. So I was
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really pleased to see that. Yeah, so I could go on but that's sort of a value I want to get
out there and,uh,be clear about. How bout you folks, you have questions,uh, for Jamie
or Srikanth? It's a tough report. A lot of it is very technical, and...pretty hard to digest.
But it's a very good report too, it seems to me. All right, I guess I wanna ask another
question then, and you and I, we talked about this briefly before the meeting. So in this
memo that Martha Norbeck wrote,which Geoff notes about and I guess Ashley knows
about and so on, Martha draws attention to the importance of peak demand periods, and
suggests basically scaling PV systems so that they can accommodate the peak demand
periods for electric energy, within the facilities that we choose to build on. Um, you
know, she has a great chart,you know,this shows the gap that could be filled. So I'm
wondering how difficult it is to determine how to scale PV systems to meet peak demand
periods most efficiently.
Goldenberg/ So as Srikanth was mentioning earlier,uh,to Mayor with seven of the eight sites we
looked at,you're actually....you aren't charged on peak demand. Uh, your waste water
treatment plant you are. Um, so....roughly how you would do that is if you have the...if
you have the land or the rooftop available,um, which none of your buildings would
necessarily have the rooftop space available,but if you wanted to match your peak at the
waste water treatment plant, all you would do is you essentially would understand if your
peak's 1-megawatt, you would build up to....essentially 1-megawatt of AC electricity
with your solar arrays, and so that would end up being 1.2-ish megawatts of DC solar,
and your...you would have a different inverter, so...what happens is there's a way to do it.
You just have to build enough solar and have enough inverter to make sure that you...
you're never going over that peak and you're always...when the sun is shining, you're
essentially being able to always provide the necessary electricity back to the waste water
treatment plant. Um, I mean that's what we....that's what we do with our projects.
Madala/Just to add to Jamie's comments here,um, so I was recently at the SPI Conference in,
uh, LA,one of the biggest solar conference in the country. Um, the conference was
called SPI, Solar Power International conference, and ESI, Energy Storage International
conference. So nowadays, um, maybe in a couple of years, actually today, we're seeing
more and more projects, solar projects, tied with battery storage. Uh, you're going to see
that happen more and more, in future as well, um, so solar and storage have become like
one word, um, undivided. So.....I see storage play role in future to....to, uh,to
(mumbled) demand, a big demand issue, uh,to....uh, not just over...sometimes we can
build a system, overbuild it to address that issue,but we can also, uh, optimize it with
storage component added to it. Uh, and a lot of times, um...even if you were to decide to
build a storage project in future, you can still capture the same tax credits that were used
on an older solar project. So what I mean by that is if I were to build a solar project
today,but decide to build a storage project two years from now, I can still capture the
30%tax credits which I used on my solar project. Make sense?
Throgmorton/If the law doesn't get changed (laughs)
Madala/Yes! Of course, I mean today's law is....is written like that.
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Throgmorton/Yeah. Okay,thanks. It's very helpful. Anybody wanna ask Jamie and Srikanth
any questions? Okay! Thanks. I....maybe you should just hang, stand by. Maybe we'll
have more questions in a few minutes,but I wanna see what Ashley or Geoff has to say,
cause I....I think there was more coming our way, wasn't there?
Monroe/Yeah,we,urn....
Throgmorton/You don't have to stand right there. You can sit down(both talking)
Goldenberg/Ashley has both of our contact information too, so if questions come up later on
we're happy to (several talking)
Throgmorton/ Sure.
Monroe/Absolutely! It's been a major undertaking,um, working on this project and, urn,
ensuring that everybody's on the....on the same page for, urn, what we were looking for
in our assessment. They did a good job in,uh,putting together like you said a very
technical, in-depth document for us to....to.....you know, go through and look at as a
resource for a lot of our facilities,urn, either now or into the future. Um, so we could talk
a little bit about, urn, about the....the memo or, um, about the....late handout memo, urn,
regarding our Public Works facility. Um, we.....one thing that we decided in the memo
that is touched on in the memo from Martha Norbeck is that,um,with the construction of
our new Public Works facility,urn, it's not in the building design specifications to add a
solar,uh, fixture at this time,but it is designed to be accommodating to a rooftop solar
fixture. So, urn, we're prepared to add that to our budget proposal, uh, for fiscal year 20,
if that's something that Council would find appropriate. We can give detail or more
information about, um, from the Neumann Monson or from Public Works, if you'd like
to hear from them,um, about what that might entail. Um, if you have questions about
that aspect of....of where we could go to next. Um.....I also could speak to a little bit if
there are other questions about options that we might pursue,um, you know, to address
climate,uh....emissions mitigation, um, down the road if we don't opt for solar. Just...
we'll take any questions about what you'd like to talk about.
Throgmorton/Well the....the,um.....Public Works' facility's not included in the list of eight, so
that's....we have to talk about that kind of separately. It's my understanding, uh, from
talkin' with Geoff, that the payback,the financial payback, is much better, would be
much better for the Public Works' facility. That's what I understand. Uh, and I know
Martha worked on that too and so on, but...maybe y'all could elaborate on that a little bit.
Fruin/(mumbled) so we had the,uh,the Public Works' facility analysis going on kinda side-by-
side with this, uh, this report. Urn, the solar system is not designed for Public Works yet,
so it's hard to speak in definitive terms. Uh,there's a team working on that. They can
speak to....to what they're lookin' at. You certainly saw a little bit in Martha's memo,
uh,but yes, we do believe that the economic payback will be much better on that project
than it would be with any of the project sites that were on the screen today. So,uh, as
Ashley mentioned in our draft budget, which you will receive,uh, later this month, at the
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end of December, you will see funds available, uh, in that budget,uh, for the design and
instruction of the....of a solar array, to be sized,um.....uh, for that Public Works' facility,
so that it can be built, uh, in conjunction with the building.
Cole/I'd be curious to see what staff's response is to the recommendation of the power purchase
agreement financing mechanism. Um, the consultants indicate that they, I think it's on
page 153 of the report, that they strongly recommend the power purchase agreement, in
terms of a financing mechanism. So my understanding, cause potentially could be up to a
30% reduction (mumbled)you'd have to compensate for some for the return on the
person that would purchase the return, but still they're not gonna get 30%. Um, so we're
still gonna get a....a major reduction. What's the staff's response to the third-party
purchase agreement as a, uh, financing mechanism, why wouldn't we do that?
Fruin/I think in the scenarios laid out, it's clear that that's the better option, uh, for the...for the
eight that were presented here today. Uh,there's no doubt about it, but again those....
those cost comparisons that you were lookin' at were build it ourselves versus that third-
party power. It wasn't against a do-nothing scenario. So, um, you know,what you saw
there was the....the, uh, the third-party option may save one point....or 3 million or 1
million,whatever it was, compared to the build-your-own, but we still need to come up
with another million, uh,to....to implement those projects, and (clears throat)the
paybacks are beyond the life....expectancy of the units themselves. So....I don't get
excited when I see those numbers. Um, I understand the Council's desires to meet your
greenhouse emissions reduction goals,um,but when I see those types of numbers, I...I
immediately start to look to other ways, uh, to.....to address those goals, whether that's
methane capture at our landfill or waste water plant or facility improvements,
transportation—any other....any other way because when we're lookin' at those 30-plus
year, uh,paybacks, um....I just think there's probably better options.
Mims/Well and that....that would be my question for more, uh, I guess deliberation,
investigation of....go back to prior to when a lot of other people on Council, but one of
the comments that Tom Markus made when we were talking about some of these things
years ago was there's....there's lots of ways to save energy and reduce your use that
aren't exactly sexy or real visible, but you get a lot better bang for your buck. I mean that
can mean new insulation on buildings. It can be changing out windows. You know,just
making the physical plants that we have a whole lot more efficient, so they're using less
electricity, less natural gas, etc., and....I think...there's times that those maybe can be but
I think we need to do more investigation, a lot more efficient with our money and get just
as big a benefit from an environmental standpoint. So, I'm not excited when I see these
numbers in terms of the years to payback. I realize they'd be shorter with...when you get
the third-party provider involved and they can get the tax credits,but it seems to me
you're still gonna be, um, even....and I don't know how much that reduction's gonna be,
but even if you take say a 30%reduction in....in the life span of these or the payback
period,you're still gonna be pushin' over 20 years on an awful lot of these scenarios.
Cole/Am I correct though in looking at some of these numbers on pages 174 and 175. There are
some sticker-shock numbers, for example site 4 which is the water treatment plant. I
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think that's like $1.1 million, which obviously's a lot of money. There are some numbers
though, like for example the pool, albeit maybe not the best in terms of reduction, am I
right in saying that the total cost for that would be $21,000? So I mean there....there are
some, site 2 $39,000, site 3 74,urn, I'm curious—of the four scenarios that are identified,
let's assume we wanna go forward, of those four scenarios that they had identified, did
staff have a recommendation as to those four scenarios that were previously identified,
which they would recommend?
Frain/Well we'll...what I would say, and....and Rockne, you're absolutely correct, you know,
like the....the pool house example of 21,000, if Council's goal is more on the visibility
side, if you're puttin' more weight on that than the greenhouse gas emissions or the
economic payback,then yeah, 21,000 is not a big deal for us. We can....we can do
$21,000 to build solar panels, uh, if you're looking for a high visibility project and that
kind of location is intriguing to you. Um, in terms of what we would recommend if we
were lookin' at these eight sites, one, you know, I'll....l would recommend that
....Council, I think you need to bring some clarity. If visibility's what you're goin' for,
that's probably gonna give....give, you know, have us give ya a different answer than,
uh, greenhouse gas emissions, but if...if you just said of these eight sites which solar you
want to do, I gravitate towards that payback period, and so I probably find myself at that
Terry Trueblood location. And then you need to think about, do you want that...do you
want that look at Terry Trueblood, um, is that, you know, from an aesthetic standpoint, is
that the location you want? It's going to be very visible. Does it mesh well with the
park? Does it meet your other objectives, but....that's the best payback that...this report
identified.
Throgmorton/In your chart you indicate that the payback, or the visibility score ranges from 1 to
5. Which is high, 1 or 5? Five, thanks! Well I want us to figure out a way to do more
than just the Public Works' facility. Now how much more....I don't know and I don't
know if four...at least three of you agree that we oughta do more than just the Public
Works' facility. Uh, and....so, uh, if....at least a majority of Council Members want to
do more than just Public Works' facility, we'd have to figure out, or ask staff to help us
figure out,which one to choose. So, I don't know where that stands.
Mims/Well I guess one thing I would respond to is, one, I don't think it's set that we're gonna
do Public Works. I think we need to talk about that through the budgeting process, and
number two, um, I think it's important as...I can't remember who mentioned it earlier,
before we talk about doing more, I'd like to hear what people's values are, cause I
think...as Geoff just said, how...if you are going to do more, why are you doing more and
what is it you wanna get out of it,because that certainly impacts which ones that you
would look at. And....and I...I would still....I'd like to go back and ask a question on the
greenhouse gas emissions. You'll need to come up to the mic if you don't mind. Um, so
you're saying the reduction in the greenhouse gas emissions that you showed in these
various scenarios is based on replacing the greenhouse gases that are being generated as
part of Mid Am's portfolio right now?
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Goldenberg/So it takes it from accounting perspective, so,uh,Mid Am's the biggest provider in
the Johnson County,uh, and in Muscatine,which is what we pulled from.
Mims/Okay, you lost me right there. What...what are you talking about Muscatine for, I'm
sorry.
Goldenberg/Those were just the two counties that we could pull data from that were nearby. We
know that's not....we know that's not....we, your(several talking) What?
Madala/It's EPA data.
Goldenberg/Oh, so (both talking)
Madala/...EPA data for those counties.
Goldenberg/Yeah. So we're pulling EPA data from those two counties to understand what the
greenhouse gas emissions are from the energy mix in those two counties. So then we
looked at what we had offset, as far as the production that our,uh, solar panels, or your
solar panels,would generate, and then that would be the percentage that, you know, and
that's an estimate, that we'd be able to offset as far as if you were to build those projects.
Mims/I guess, so is Mid Am a big provider in Muscatine County?
Goldenberg/We just took it from,uh, geographical perspective. So I....
Madala/ ...not necessarily from the utility perspective but a geographic perspective,which EPA
does its own thing with all the different, uh,providers in the...in the territory.
Mims/I guess I'm not....
Throgmorton/...understand your question.
Mims/I'm not convinced, or understanding at least well enough,to have confidence that we're
gonna get the....that we're actually gonna get that reduction in greenhouse gas emissions.
Goldenberg/Yeah, so....that's as granular of data that we could get, as far as what the energy
mix was in this general area of the country. So the EPA, they broke it down by state,
then by county. So that's why we took more than just one county,just for, you know,
just to get more data points.
Mims/But I guess my question is....looking at the geography....and knowing that Mid American
has a lot more renewable energy than...is it Eastern Iowa? Okay. I....I don't know who
the major electric...electrical provider is in Muscatine County. Is it Mid Am or is it
Eastern Iowa?
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Madala/The state has only two,uh, IOUs,which is....which are (both talking) and Mid Am, so
EPA, when they do their analysis for 2017, they take the greenhouse gas emissions from
these two IOUs as well as, uh, any GADs, which are co-op....co-op (mumbled)providers
in...in the area. So they already did that analysis for us. We don't need to go (mumbled)
We can just go to the geographic location and pull that EPA data, which...which we are
using(both talking)
Mims/I still don't follow, I'm sorry! It just...I don't understand why Muscatine County's
coming into it at all.
Goldenberg/Well part of it too is, I mean, your waste water treatment plant, that is coming from
Eastern Iowa(both talking) gonna be your biggest emitter....of greenhouse gas
emissions.
Mims/Right, but when you're doing a site-by-site analysis of the...of the reduction in greenhouse
gas emissions,most of those sites are supplied totally by Mid Am, and so....if Mid Am is
providing 80% of our electricity through renewable sources, what I'm having trouble
following is....are....how you're coming up with those reductions in greenhouse gas
emissions and how accurate are they,based on what you're rally comparing it to and
that's why Muscatine doesn't make sense to me. I'm sorry, I'm just not following it.
Madala/Yeah, so...I think, I mean when Mid Am says they're doing 100%renewable, or 80%
renewable, it's a point in time.
Mims/Right, I(both talking)
Madala/ Not 100%of the year, not (mumbled)hours of the year, right? At some point in time,
they're hitting that(mumbled) I guess they're still using (mumbled)I mean fossil fuel
sources...
Mims/Right. •
Madala/ ....like natural gas or others. So what EPA does is EPA, so (unable to understand) what
they use, so what (unable to understand) fuels, right? So EPA....calculates, okay, this
geographic region, uh....(unable to understand) is emitting this much greenhouse gas
emissions.
Mims/Uh huh.
Madala/If somebody were to do a solar facility in that region, the kilowatt hours of energy is
gonna offset, is gonna offset this much of carbon emissions.....
Mims/Okay.
Madala/...is a calculator(both talking)
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Mims/Okay,that makes more sense. Okay, thank you.
Throgmorton/Yeah, so it's a regional estimate.
Madala/It's a regional estimate for, yeah. Not by utility but the...the aggregate that they must
have aggregate(unable to understand)
Mims/Thank you.
Fruin/I think what's not taken into account is any future improvements those utilities may make.
Mid Am has announced intention to continue to add wind. I don't know about Eastern
Iowa but,um, any future improvements would not be reflected in these numbers.
Madala/That's right.
Cole/Even at 100%there would still be a reduction in the carbon emissions if we adopted solar,
correct?
Madala/ I believe so.
Mims/Thank you...for my difficulty understanding(laughs)
Teague/Mayor, um, I know....1 know that you asked about, you know, other projects and stuff
like that, if we can do somethin'. Um, I guess what I would say is that there's a, um,
there's gonna be more things coming, and I know that,Rockne, uh,this was somethin'
that you really wanted to see. Um, I wonder if we wouldn't,you know, get from staff,
um, some possibilities of, you know, other ways that we can do,uh, accomplish the goal.
Throgmorton/You mean in terms of carbon emission reductions?
Teague/Yes.
•
Throgmorton/Yeah,uh(both talking) would not necessarily be,have anything to do with power
and generation.
Teague/Right(several talking)
Throgmorton/We've gone through this a lot, among the Council, before, over the past few years
(both talking) so one of the things we tried to do by commissioning this study was to get
us....be able to focus on power generation and what we could accomplish and what...
what we wanted to do, given what we learned from....from an analysis like this.
Monroe/(mumbled)well one,we're planning to provide a...a general progress report as to,um,
you know, climate mitigation projects that we have going on at the City level. So our
City operations, improvements that we've been making to our buildings, and, you know,
the energy savings that comes from....from those types of projects. Um, the other thing
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that, you know, the value of this study has kind of emphasized is that,urn, we have
opportunity to expand on discussions that....that we've started when we were developing
the climate action plan for,urn,potential demonstration projects or cooperation with Mid
American or maybe Eastern Iowa Power. Urn, we also have upcoming or plans for the,
you know,methane studies at both the landfill and waste water treatment plant, and so
through those types of studies we may be able to identify ways that we can, you know,
there might be a methane capture than can be converted to energy in some way
where...... where we're doing both—we're, uh, reducing emissions and also generating
power for us or in some other...other capacity. So I think there are...there are
opportunities if you want us to outline those specifically, you know,we have plans to do
that and we'll just,um,move forward with...with making sure we get you that
information.
Mims/I think that would be helpful, so we can really see a comparison where the benefit is.
Monroe/We're also,um, planning to outline those specific projects that pertain to, um,
emissions reduction and the climate plan during our budget discussion, so...that's coming.
Thomas/(mumbled) an equity filter on...on our greenhouse gas emission reduction plan?
Monroe/I think that's in the works, so...um, it's still under discussion as to how best to do that.
Throgmorton/ (both talking)
Cole/(mumbled)
Throgmorton/ ....equity subcommittee, on the climate action plan(several talking)
Thomas/...really important, you know, in terms of factoring that in.
Cole/Jim, could I mention something? Um,there's a lot of complexity to this issue, and I think I
understood the purpose of this work session would be for us to give tangible feedback,
based upon recommendations that were made, and the actual details in this report, and
there were four scenarios that were outlined. I think what I would like to see happen is
specific plan based upon scenario two, um and if I could just elaborate, and if we're still
in the deliberation phase, uh, and I don't know which page scena...the scenarios were laid
out on,but scenario two is my understanding outlined the water treatment plan,which I
think....plant, which we all agree is the heaviest emitter by far, so I think if we're looking
at that pragmatic goal and that carbon reduction goal,that is definitely,urn, somethin'
we'd wanna focus on. They talked, urn, but then compare in, urn, in contrast, the Robert
A. Center and the Mercer Center are also identified. Urn, those are very visible, uh, also
have some significant costs. Urn, it did not, is my understanding, include the Terry
Trueblood. So by way of proposal,what I would like to do is have staff give us specific
feedback on,urn, scenario two,with the addition of Terry Trueblood,um, and then come
back with a written response to that particular proposal. I think you can talk about, you
know,putting thicker windows,more insulations,but that is not going to get us to where
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we need to go, and I...I have to say, I'm a little frustrated with tonight's discussion
because the...the world is literally on fire, okay? I mean there are...we have to have a
sense of urgency, and what I'm....what I'm feeling is that we're just saying let's do
another study, let's kick it down the road six months. I don't think we can afford to kick
it down the road six months. I think we need to feel the urgency to do it right now, or at
least in terms of providing the direction. Now the water treatment plant is expensive.
Urn, I don't think we can decide that tonight. It's about a million dollars. Um, that may
just have to be in our, um, five-year capital improvement during our budget discussion
year, um, but from now until budget time, that gives us at least four to six weeks for staff
to generate some response, and I think in terms of costs, um, the thing I like about Terry
Trueblood is that it does have that visibility piece, and I think about that. People go there
for walking, biking. It's educational. Beautiful landscaping. So it would really fit that
educational speak, and I could really see classes going out there to enjoy the nature, get
some exercise, and learn about renewable energy. So that's what I would like to do is
scenario two, and get some staff feedback, uh, from now until budget review time.
Throgmorton/Rockne, it's an interesting idea and maybe it'll get support, but...don't forget, staff
has already suggested we do Public Works' facility. That's not even in the list of eight.
Cole/That's correct.
Throgmorton/ ...we have in front of us. So if we wanted to do pretty much what you suggested, I
would think we'd wanna do the Public Works' facility and maybe a couple other
facilities.
Cole/Yeah.
Throgmorton/Which would be equivalent,basically, to scenario two.
Cole/It's very similar and....and what I was gonna say with scenario two, it identifies both
Robert A. Lee and Mercer. That strikes me as a little bit much, and my thought on that
would be just to leave it to staff's discretion as to,you know, what they think would be
more optimal and then plug that into the five-year plan,but...but that's what I would like
to see done, and I would note that the price of Terry Trueblood, it's my understanding, is
about 74,000 bucks. Um....expensive but not budget breaking.
Throgmorton/ So you would the staff to,uh, dig a little bit deeper into scenario two, modified
(both talking)
Cole/Yes.
Throgmorton/ ...incorporating the Public Works' facility and deleting something.
Cole/Yeah.
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Throgmorton/ So that it's roughly equivalent to scenario two, and then we haven't made any
decision about that, but you'd like staff to be directed to do that. Right?
Cole/Yes!
Throgmorton/Can you think of any objection to doing that, Geoff?
Fruin/I...I think it's just really important and...couple things. We're not askin' for another study,
and I'm not sayin' that there's not a....that Council shouldn't act with a sense of urgency.
What we're tryin' to say here is that if greenhouse gas is...is the urgency, then you
probably need a broader perspective than just solar. That's....that's my opinion. Um, if
solar's what you want and visibility's what you want,then tell us that and we'll rank
these for ya and we'll....we'll put 'em out there and we'll say `Council wants to do solar,
it's important that it's visible, let's do Terry Trueblood, let's do the...the swimming pool,
and...and....and, you know,probably a few more of these down the road.' But I think it
would be really helpful for the collective group to articulate really what you want to get
out of this. Is it visibility? Is it greenhouse gas? Urn, the...you know,the cost, if we're
just lookin' at scenario two, it's a....it's a million dollars over time,but that's....that's a
lot of money, urn, over....over the time. That's what, you know,what we're gonna pay
in increased, uh....uh, utility bills through a third-party provider. That's fine,we can....
we can do our best to....to absorb that but.....that's a real cost. I just want you to know
that (laughs) that's a real cost that has to be figured into the budget.
Throgmorton/So with regard to the point about visibility, one of the really intriguing things
about Bluestem's study is...the lengthy section in the back of the...of their lengthy report,
about visibility and about the.....the......the merits of increased visibility. I wonder if, uh,
Jamie, you or Srikanth could very concisely summarize the merits of increased visibility.
Um, as expressed in your report very concisely.
Madala/ So....you know we....we hear people,uh,talking about ROI, return on investment,uh,
so in solar world there is this term called ROV, return on visibility. Uh, think about it as
Amazon, um, choosing cities for their second headquarters, right? So they had what, 10
finalists, and two cities got chosen more recently. Uh, one of the....one of the, uh,
decision making factor is renewable energy in cities,because all these big Walmarts and
Amazons of the world are looking at that. They want to be 100% sustainable. So now if
the City had invested into that,thinking about,uh, Amazon coming into their city in
future, so that's return on visibility or return on....because it's putting the name of that
particular city out....out in national media that, uh(unable to understand)down the future
by bringing business into the community. So that's....that's one way of looking at it.
Another way of looking at it I guess, uh....so the....the place we, uh, we have our office
facility,we have a....33-kilowatt solar on rooftop and now we have a lot of startups that
share space with us and some of the startups are excited to be in that space because,uh,
they can showcase themselves as a green business. Uh,they're telling to their customers
that, hey, we...we rent a space which has 33-kilowatts of solar on the rooftop. Now that's
a return visibility too. Yeah. Just....my perspective (both talking)
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Throgmorton/I think that the report also identifies the ways in which increased visibility
influences people in the place, when they see these panels (both talking) so on then they
can be(both talking) to do something similar(both talking)
Madala/ Sure, like....like, um, you were mentioning that if somebody could see a solar panel at
Terry Trueblood Center while they take a jog and they want to do that at their homes, you
know, that could be solar businesses coming up in Iowa City, uh,that's new revenue,
new businesses in the city too. Yeah, definitely, and uh, and there was,uh, some
structures we showed on the report, uh,that can bring....that can show you like a....more
(unable to understand) solar structures where, you know, people see it and never seen a
solar panel in their life,but then wanna see it upfront,up close,uh, learn a little bit about
the technology, what it does, how it(unable to understand) sunlight into energy, so....
(unable to understand)
Throgmorton/Okay.
Madala/Thank you!
Throgmorton/All right, we need to bring closure to this discussion. So one thing, Susan's
completely right about,uh, we have a recommendation from staff to invest in PV panels
in our budgetary process for the Public Works' facility,but we haven't decided that yet
so we'll get to that when we get to the budget, the CIP, and we have a proposal from
Rockne. So we need to decide whether there's a majority of support for....could you
restate your....your suggestion, Rockne?
Cole/Well I wanted the staff to give us feedback,um, on scenario two,um, and scenario two, the
primary structures in scenario two,my understanding, was the water treatment plant, um,
the Robert A. Lee, and Mercer, and there was one other that I forget off the top of my
head. It did not include, um, Terry Trueblood. So what I was asking for direction on was
is staff feedback on that particular proposal, um,just very quickly, I think it does have
both the educational and the,um, pragmatic at the same time. Staff could get us the
feedback. We don't have to decide that today, but it'll allow us to dig deeper into that
one. So that when we had budget review process, we'd be really ready for a thorough
discussion on....which one of those we wanna pick, but the addition to that would be
consider Terry Trueblood,because I think that sort of hits it out of the park in terms of
return on the investment, return on visibility, educational location,um, and just general
visibility for the City of Iowa City.
Mims/I guess my question is what do you want....I'm not sure what you're asking for staff to
do. I mean there was an awful lot of detail in the report from Bluestem, the cost for the
various,um, sites, etc., you know, the reduction greenhouse gas. I....I guess I'm not
quite sure what it is you're looking for.
Cole/Well I mean in other words we've had a lot of detail tonight, I mean nearly 170-plus pages,
and I think what this would allow us to do is, urn,we haven't given staff specific detail in
terms of particular projects. This would allow them to evaluate this and determine which
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of the structures within scenario two they'd want to move forward on. Um, certainly I
think tonight it would be hard to say,hey, we're gonna build scenario two, every single
one of these and add solar structures,but this would allow us to narrow our focus on
scenario two,to move this forward,because my goal, and I hope Council's goal is, is to
move solar infrastructure forward in a meaningful way, and I think starting with scenario
two would be an important first step to doing that.
Mims/Maybe I'm just havin' a rough night. I still don't get(laughter) I still don't get what you
want from....from staff, I mean the dollar amounts are in there. The reduction in
greenhouse gases are in there. The designs, whether it's carport or rooftop are in there.
So what...what more specifically do you want staff to come back with? I'm sorry,
maybe....maybe it's me tonight but I just don't follow what you're asking for. Maybe
Geoff does, I don't know.
Throgmorton/I have a suggestion. The....the real question you're trying to get at here is, I think,
Rockne, is.....uh, first of all to direct staff to provide detail about that one scenario, as
you described it.
Mims/Okay! What detail?
Throgmorton/Well,just to do it. So it can be on another work session, I think(both talking)
Cole/Yes!
Throgmorton/And that we can just decide....whether we wanna proceed with that or not, instead
of,um, you know....recognizing what time it is and the fact we have other things (both
talking)
Mims/What detail that's not already in the report?
Cole/So the detail would be what year of the capital improvement project we wanna do it. Do
we wanna do it in the operating budget for 2020? Do we wanna do it 2021? We wanna
take some of these off? Do we wanna add any, so I mean this would be the starting point
for deciding which structures we wanna do. Um, I don't think we're ready to say we
wanna do every structure on scenario two tonight. Maybe we are,but I think we should
have more conversation on that to narrow our focus. I don't know how much more
specific I can get.
Throgmorton/Yeah, and there's the question about values too. So it's not purely a matter of
numbers and payback,though those are both important, and....so we would need to
process that. So I don't know, that's the proposal (both talking)
Cole/ ....my proposal, so....
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Throgmorton/All right, yeah, so is there support for what Rockne is suggesting? It's not a
decision. It's support for that kind of feedback and we'll come....we'll revisit it probably
at our next meeting. (several talking)
Thomas/In terms of the solar strategy, it seems like a reasonable approach,but you know I think
Geoff's comments about how does this fit within a larger framework, uh....with respect
to reducing greenhouse gases is the question I would want to ask.
Throgmorton/Can that be fled with what you described earlier? All right. Is that reasonable to
you, Rockne?
Cole/Yes.
Throgmorton/All right.
Fruin/You want this on your next work session?
Throgmorton/Well if....if y'all can do it. I don't know if you can.
Fruin/We can get you some information. Uh, it's basically repackaging what's here and(both
talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah,but really focused, you know, on that...not...not on all the alternatives that
we've been presented with,uh,tonight by our terrific consultant.
Fruin/Okay.
Throgmorton/Yeah and if I....if you feel like you can't really do it adequately by the 18th, let's
push it back a meeting or whatever.
Sahli/(unable to hear)
Fruin/Yeah,that...that discussion,we're, you know,I warn make sure you know this Public
Work's facility solar array is a significant array. Uh,hundreds of thousands of dollars of
cost, you know, as you compare to others. So,um, that discussion you can have at your
CIP budget in January. We'll have the recommendation, we'll have the funds in there to
accommodate it, and you can decide if you wanna bond for those funds and....and,uh,
add those to the facility.
Throgmorton/Reasonable. Okay. Good deal. Thanks so much, Jamie, Srikanth. Appreciate
your good work. All right. Moving on! Our next topic is to discuss height bonus
allowances for 12 Court Street. Geoff, are you plannin' to (both talking)
Discuss height bonus allowances for 12 Court Street [IP6,IP71:
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Fruin/Yeah,just real quick introduction. This is obviously a....a familiar topic for you. Uh, in
your,uh,packet you had a couple of,uh, supporting items. One is a simple cover letter
from me,trying to frame the discussion. Uh, I won't go through that, unless you have
questions on some of my....my comments. The more important piece is the pre-
application for height bonus from the development team, uh, and uh, our hope is tonight
that you can, uh, discuss that. You obviously have a little bit more information on...on
where they wanna go,um,but discuss that and ultimately what the team is looking for is
some assurance,uh, as they decide whether to enter a very expensive design phase that a
height bonus application such as the one they're laying out here, uh,would be acceptable
to the Council. So they're not gonna present tonight,but they are here to answer
questions. Uh, staff has not fully vetted,uh, the pre-application. I don't think that's
necessary,but as my memo stated, there may be some things in here that,uh,we would
have to iron out with them, uh, over the course of the design process.
Throgmorton/Okay, I'd like to frame this just a little bit more. I'm gonna quote something,uh,
you stated in your memo, Geoff, and that is the development team would like a strong
indication that their intent for the project is acceptable to a majority of Council Members.
So it seems to me that's the threshold, uh, question. And so I wanna elaborate on that
just a little bit. When we met on November the 6th and had our lengthy discussion about
this, uh,tell me if I'm wrong. My recollection is that three Members stated very clearly
that they supported, uh, basically the maximum 15 stories, assuming that the consultant...
or the develop....development team presented a reasonable justification and so on. And
three did not. So it was three and three. And on that night, Bruce was placed in a pretty
awkward position, cause it was his second meeting and the last person to speak and he
made basically a deciding vote,but it wasn't officially a vote, right? So it seems to me
that a reasonable thing to do would be to make sure that Bruce at least, and anybody else
really,but Bruce at least has an opportunity to ask any questions he thinks are necessary
to enable him to make a good,reasonable judgment from his own point of view, and
then...then we can have some clarity about what the majority of the Council, uh,prefers.
So,uh, with that I would like to ask Bruce to pose questions to any of us that he feels are
necessary to make whatever decision you wanna make.
Teague/ Sure. Um, you know,the....the interestin' piece about 12 Court Street, um, is that it is a
controversial, um, conversation that's happenin' throughout the community, because of
the 15 stories. Um, as I'm tryin' to put everything together,um, when we're tallcin' about
the form based code as well as,uh, the comprehensive plan and stuff like that,um,
I....I've,you know, sought out both the yeses and the noes, uh, for the project,just to get
everyone's perspective. Um, it was interestin' the night of our Council meeting when,
um, I think there was, you know, different viewpoints up here and so if I can ask maybe
some leading questions to maybe start the discussion,um,tonight maybe we can all, you
know, give some input and my hope is that when....as a Council I know that sometimes
we can vote opposite,but I also believe there's an opportunity here where we can agree
on some things, um, and maybe negotiate on some things,because,um, Iowa City is a
place where developers want to, uh, be and we wanna make sure that we're doin' all of
our due diligence to make it as easy as possible for them, with,um,the understandin' that
we're gonna do our due diligence in assurin' that we are the gatekeepers and good
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stewards of,urn, you know, for the City of Iowa City. Urn, so with that said, I guess
when we talk about the 15 stories, and I read over Mayor Jim's report a little more in
detail, urn, so it's, you know, like the 12,um, height average is what, uh, Mayor Jim
stated. I'm not gonna put the developers on,uh(laughs) on the spot tonight,but I wonder
if at some point we ask the developers or,uh, the staff ask the developers,you know,
would they ever consider less than 15 stories, and if so, what would that be, because right
now we....we have a discussion,urn, between 12 and 15,urn, where average of 12, that's
acceptable. Fifteen, some, you know, is in support. So I think that's somethin' that we
may be able to ask the,urn,the developers, outside of today,um, to help us, you know,
be a little guided amongst ourselves and the discussion. Um,when we talk about the
addition of the...or the right-of-way of the....the street, which is gonna be Capitol Street, I
think we all agree on that as bein' a positive thing from what I've heard. Urn,but is there
any compromise here among the Council,urn, you know, for the 15 or...or 12 story, is
there any consideration for that, and....and maybe I'll even step back and say when I....
when I read the comprehensive plan or....and I may be gettin' all the terminologies, uh,
incorrect,but the form based code, I didn't find anything in there, um, out....that has
been proposed,um,to be contradictory of what they can do. So I just wanna....maybe
that's where I'll start. With the form based code, urn, do we feel that this project, you
know, can check a box that they've met that? I guess that would be my question to
Council right now.
Throgmorton/What do you mean check a box (both talking)
Teague/As far as like the height bonus. Specifically(both talking)
Throgmorton/...right-of-way?
Teague/No,no,no, for the building. So for the 15 stories. (several talking) And they're on the
corner, as well. So for the location that they've sited, the form based code, have they
kinda met that check box I guess is my question.
Thomas/I'm not(several talking)
Cole/ ....inconsistent with the comp plan.
Teague/And I may be gettin' all the terminology(both talking)
Salih/ ...Riverfront Crossing(mumbled)heights, yeah. I think in the corner you can go,that my
understanding too, you can go like up to 15. Like in corners, and the Riverfront Crossing
master plan.
Throgmorton/The master plan(both talking)
Salih/Yes. Not the form based code.
Teague/Okay. All right, and is on that particular site,is that correct?
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Salih/Yes.
Teague/Okay.
Throgmorton/Well I'm not sure about that but maybe we can stick with your....with your
question. So....so I'm gonna try and translate to make sure I understand your question.
The....the....the form based code permits the developer to apply for height bonuses, in
terms of...what is it? Eight or 10 categories? I don't remember exactly. Some number of
categories. And of course they have to justify why they think, uh....uh,those height
bonuses are appropriate, but in the end, and,Eleanor,please correct me if I'm wrong, in
the end,it's a matter of judgment on the part of the Council, at least if it gets to the
Council level,meaning over two stories is the request. It's a matter of Council judgment
about whether to provide height bonuses, and if so how much.
Teague/Uh huh.
Throgmorton/But there's no legal requirement or expectation that the developer has a right to
the bonuses.
Teague/When we're talkin' about, um,the....the master plan, so that's, um, it is my
understanding that on that corner that was allowable, and that went through P&Z, the
master plan. So is that correct?
Fruin/There's a height map in the master plan that gives general ranges of, uh, of heights. It's
been referenced in our TIF policy and in other locations, and yes, on I believe the corner
of Burlington and Capitol it showed up to 15 stories there. It showed a range, not for the
entire site but for that specific corner location. (several talking)
Teague/Great. Um, and I am so sorry because I...I touched one button and I had a few questions
(laughter) and I deleted it(laughter) No, I had about five questions. Um, so I'll try to go
from memory. Some of it, um....so for,um, I saw in there, um, in what's been
submitted,um, you know the amenities for the students and stuff like that, and so that
looks like an awesome place,um, for students. Um, I know I woulda loved to live there.
The one thing that I...well, it sounds like an awesome place. The restaurant up top, I love
the rooftop restaurant,um,idea. Um,but some of the things that I do think that....when I
look at that,we don't really know what the scale looks like, so a meeting room or a study
room, you know, is in there,but we don't know if it's,um, somethin' that is just small or
if it's somethin' that is really,really, you know, feasible. If, you know, if it's small and
they check the box, but I guess that's somethin' that we'll be able to see down the road,
urn,when we, you know, if....if this does get passed through Council. Um, so a part of it
is where, you know, what we received, it seemed,um,because it's not detailed and...and
finalized is more theory based,um, as to what we can expect. Um,the one thing that I do
know when we talked about the conditions, urn, I see some of the conditions corrin' out,
um, in....in what's been laid out there. Um, are there any conditions that people found
that we need to consider for the safety of the students and stuff like that? I don't know if
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there was anything remainin' that people had that was still,um,that we still wanted to see
within the...within the project.
Throgmorton/Anybody want to address that?
Taylor/(mumbled) (several talking)
Stewart/Um, the only question I would have is,um, how...does the,urn, I guess the, um,
management plan get enforced,urn, is there accountability measure,urn,regarding that?
Fruin/Yeah so,um,what they've done is they've laid out some,you know, again kind of general
intent on where they're going with the security and their maintenance plan. It's not in an
enforceable,uh, form right now, but they're talkin' about the key fob systems and
cameras and, uh, 24/7 help desk. So those are things that would be refined through the
development process,uh, and then on the enforceable piece,how to make it enforceable.
We would enforce that when we issue rental,uh,permits. So we would make sure that
cameras are operable. That key fob systems are operating in accordance. Uh, we could
do checks to make sure that their staffing any 24/7 help desks that they have. Urn, and
then certainly if we got complaints, or if we had security issues that were drawing our
attention from a police perspective, we could step in at any time and make sure they were
appropriately,uh, following that plan.
Stewart/Gotcha. Thank you, and then I guess the other thing would be, urn,more of a general
thing,not really something the City would be able to,but I would encourage the
consultant to reach out to a diverse range of students to get input on the site design,uh, if
they haven't already,but I think that would just be useful to really making sure, since it's
probably going to be mostly students,to get that input,to make sure that students have
buyin and can generally make sure it's sustainable.
Throgmorton/Bruce, following up on your question. Or following up on Gustave's response.
Excuse me. Previously, uh, Geoff and I had asked....University of Iowa administrators
to provide us with insight about how they designed the internal layout of their newest
residence halls, and to...and how they did that in such a way as to ensure that the students
would be able to thrive academically, which I think is an absolutely crucial thing,uh,
from the point of view of the University and I would say from my point of view as well.
So that information is available. I know Geoff has it, it was sent to us by,uh, Rod
Lehnertz, if I remember rightly or uh....uh, Keift...David Keift from the University. So
that's one thing. The second is, I have a concern a....about the pre-application packet,
with regard to the,hmmm,the consultant...the development team's,uh, experience with
regard to designing student housing of this type, I mean of high quality. When I read the
material in the pre-application packet, I saw no evidence...that I could recognize anyhow,
that they have experience in designing...the kind of high quality student housing facilities
that we're talking about. The examples they used were places like 7 North....or South
Linn Street, Augusta Place, and a few other places around town where students live.
That's student housing, but it's not the kind of student housing we need to see in that
location. Because....I mean if we approve this for 11 stories or 15 stories, there would
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still be a large number of students living there and we absolutely must make sure that
they are able to thrive academically and be safe in that facility, or the towers of the
facility. For me that's....there's....it's a non-starter, if that's not the case.
Froin/I think that's the type of feedback we need from you tonight. Uh,you know as you look
at those two pages, the high quality amenities and the student experience,uh,pages, I
think it's helpful for them, for the development team,to hear that. There's gonna be a
strong emphasis on the student experience. Maybe not so much on the high quality
amenities. Um,but when you get those floor plans back, and you look at four separate
towers, if there's only one study community room in tower A and there's nothing in B, C,
and D, it's not gonna work and I think you can be, you know, clear about that, that,uh,
and I'm not sayin' that one in each building would be sufficient either,but just makin'
the point,um,that's the type of feedback you need. If....if you're not seem' the evidence
here that says the student experience is gonna be at the level you wanna see it at, it's
good comments.
Cole/And that is in the conditional zoning agreement, correct,that it be high quality student
housing(both talking)
Froin/Correct.
Cole/Although we don't quite define that, but we leave enough flexibility in terms of(both
talking)
Throgmorton/But there are some criteria that are not trivial.
Taylor/(both talking)mention an architect with experience (several talking) Oh, I'm sorry!
I....I, it mentions an architect with experience, uh, doing this high quality student
housing.
Frain/Yeah,that was a...decision was left to me. Um,the development team, uh, I'm very
familiar with obviously,Neumann Monson, a local....local firm,um, and I felt very
confident that they have the expertise within that firm to,uh, de...develop a project,uh,
that has, you know, top-notch....thcy'll create a top-notch student experience. It's not
just the architects,right. It's the development team. It's the owner that has to commit to
that too. Um, but I....I know this team can do that. I think what's important is that you
articulate any specifics, or just that,you know, Mayor, it's helpful to say it's a non-
starter. That's gotta be a top priority. Then they know that they really have....have to
work on that when they come back with their designs.
Throgmorton/On a related point,there's information in the pre-application packet about having,
I don't know, a basketball court, a...track, and what was the other thing? And a wellness
center, and....the University's Wellness Center's located a half a block away. It makes
no sense to me whatsoever to have elaborate recreational facilities inside that building if
they're dealing with U of I students, cause the Wellness Center's a half a block away.
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Fruin/My assumption would be they're putting that in there because they think it's important...
for the marketability of the property,but....
Cole/Jim, and could you clarify, Jim, um, Bruce's point you talked about 12, so on the record
though you support an average of 12 stories. Does that mean then you would....two 15-
story towers would be acceptable, as long as you had an eight story at the other location,
cause I think it's important that we clarify, are we having this disagreement over three
stories? That's the first thing, and the second thing would be a follow up. I know the
development team doesn't want to get into details,but it's my understanding in terms of
economics of high-rises that the structural and engineering requirements that are
triggered at six floors are substantial. And that that is not recovered until some threshold.
I don't know what floor that is,but when I think we just talk about floors as if we're just
sort of, you know,just these little tiny details, I think it would also be helpful to get that
feedback in terms of making this project work, you know, do you need 15 in terms of
the massive structural costs you have at that six level trigger. So,maybe,Jim, could you
clarify if we had an average of 12 you're good with that for all four buildings?
Throgmorton/If you look at that first memo I wrote, which is back in, when was it, September,
August,I don't remember when it was, I had a step-wise progression....and there were
like three steps with regard to student housing. So I would say....11, an average of 11 is
where I'd start. I might be able to go to 12. That's what I would say. And if you do an
average,you can have a building that's 15 and a building that's 9 or whatever the math
....yeah,that'd be right. Uh, and each of those would....uh, you know,be substantial.
Cole/And I don't know if we can get that level....I don't know if we are...can solicit questions
from the development team,but in terms of this threshold of floors, I mean, can we get a
general idea in terms of where you need to get in terms of re....recouping those
substantial costs that you (both talking)
Throgmorton/Well maybe we could ask our staff to respond to (both talking)
Cole/Maybe staff could just in general, approximate?
Fruin/Yeah. My understanding is that they're, uh, targeting 1,000 units. It's not necessarily a
floor-based decision. They're looking at a thousand units, which is probably built into
some proforma that they've....they've, uh, created,uh,with some,uh, average
construction costs for a project like this. It's further my understanding that they're gonna
need all 15 stories to make that target,whether this Council says 12, 11, 13, you know,
then they have to go back and make that decision—can they reduce that unit count
enough and still make the project viable and go forward? I....I don't know the answer to
that,but I know that...their target is units rather than floors,but to hit that at this level, at
least of design, they really feel they need 15 stories.
Throgmorton/Bruce, do you have other questions?
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Teague/The only,um,when I read what was presented there, affordable housing piece, and I
know that was somethin' that,uh, Maz has ver....been very vocal about,um, so here is
the, you know, the cash donation,um, of 2 million and then there'll be affordable units.
Urn, I think this is a question—is this affordable units, it seemed like this is off-site and
not in the buildin' itself. Ur...is that correct?
Salih/Uh huh.
Teague/And then there'll be a building,um,that will....be 31-plus units,where we'll get$3
million. So I don't know if one,Maz,had any,you know,um....cause I thought that this
was (both talking and laughing)
Salih/ ....like waiting for the Mayor to....cause he directing now the (both talking)
Teague/Okay. Yeah. (both talking) Okay. (both talking) Okay. So maybe I can wait for that
part. Urn, so I....I don't know that I have any more questions. I just know that, urn,the
vacancy rate, I know that that was a big conversation that we had held. That will be...
there'll be vacancies throughout, you know,the rest of the community potentially,urn,
from this project but there's other projects of course (laughs)throughout our city and I
know that this isn't gonna be the last project that we do, urn, in our city. Um, so are there
any con....I mean, I....I personally feel,you know, Iowa City is a highly desired place to
live,um, so I believe that people will,urn, continue to be attracted to Iowa City,urn, you
know,rates,rental rates may go down, urn, but I didn't know if there was any comments
from any Council....any of the Councilors up here about, um....per....pertainin' to
vacancies or any concerns,um,that they may have.
Taylor/I had concerns about that,uh, cause I had recently heard that,uh, a firm is,uh, designing
building over 600-something units in Coralville and I think we as a group have to think
outside the box and not just look in Iowa City, but Coralville is very close to us. It's on
our transit line, and students are...are living there, and these 600-something units are
going to be geared towards students. So I think we still have to keep in mind where....
where are we gonna reach that saturation point. We still have those....those uncertainties
and speculations that,uh, you talked about the number of units rather than floors. Do we
need a thousand units, if there're 600 in Coralville and we've got The Rise and we've got
several other units, uh, in....in town and we're talking vacancy rates. I'd heard the
Mayflower has a very high vacancy rate right now. I'd like to hear a little bit more on
that, if anybody knows more on that. I think that's like robbing from Peter to pay Paul,
uh,to...they say that the....the rents are gonna go down because there'll be vacancy rates
and students'll be moving closer into town,but what about those landlords in those units
in the surrounding area, where those students did live,uh, so I'm just very concerned
about that as far as those, uh....uh, uncertainties, as far as the vacancy rates and the
number of units we truly do need and when we're going to reach saturation point.
Mims/When I look at the vacancy rates, and...we've seen some different numbers and I don't
know, you know, the accuracy of all the numbers we've seen,but I look historically at...
the high cost of living in Iowa City and the high cost of housing, and the more and more
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I've read about it, and you look at it, so much of that is the function of supply and
demand. And so to me to be able to continue to get more units, uh, within Iowa City,
where people want to live. As you said, Bruce, it's a highly desirous destination for
people. Um, I....I am convinced that it is going to help us in terms of bringing rents
down in other locations. I think it will help in the near neighborhood...near Northside
neighborhoods and maybe Orchard Miller as well, where we have student populations. I
think it will impact,um,you know, I think it'll impact the Quarters. I think it'll impact
Hawks Ridge. But there is nothing that says those places have to be 100% student
housing either. So there's the opportunity, you know,that those ultimately could also be
housing for people who are looking for lower income, or lower rents, um,to utilize those
places. So I think the idea that we, you know, our vacancies go up and hopefully,based
on that supply and demand, some of these rents go down. I think it's a positive. I don't
see it as a risk for the City, from that regard, as much as yes—it is a...it's a risk. It's a...
has to be a concern, and I'm sure it is based on some of the emails we've gotten from
some other landlords. Because they may not have quite as desirable property in terms of
the age and the quality and the location. Um, and so they may very well find themselves
having to reduce rents to, uh, to stay at the kind of capacity they want. But it's not
something....I'm not going to sit here and refuse to approve a project because a
developer's putting up 600 new units in Coralville. I....I don't think that makes any
sense. I think we need to look at what makes sense for Iowa City, you know, and again,
that proximity to the University is such high demand. So I'm not worried about it from a
vacancy standpoint.
Throgmorton/ So let me follow up on that, Susan. I know you and I have both received an email,
which indicates that some property managers, our buildings now have 15 to 20%vacancy
rates, and I have personally heard from several business people in this city concern about
increasing vacancy rates and how that will affect not just the housing complexes that we
think about,but just other housing,uh, in a significant way, and that same email I just
referred to indicates that 26 out of 90 units in a new building in the general area,um, are
vacant right now. So....
Mims/And I haven't verified any of those numbers, so I don't, I mean, they maybe totally
accurate,they may not, I mean I just....(mumbled) concerned about that(both talking)
Throgmorton/ ...if business people were telling you that, you'd be taking it very seriously. So...I
sure am! I have(mumbled) event just a few days ago and some business people came up
to me and said, what are you people thinking?
Mims/What I'm thinking is that we...have an area of the city that we....designated as highly
attractive for student housing,because of its close proximity to the University of Iowa,
that the master plan for that area, uh, specifically called for high density student....high
density student housing on this "super block,"um, through a long public process for
changing that whole area to Riverfront Crossings, and then went through a...a relatively
extended process of developing a form based code, which allowed for bonus heights in
various parts of Riverfront Crossings,um,based on various circumstances. So to me
when I look at this particular project, and I look at the number of units, it...what the
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developer is asking for in my opinion fits within the master plan for Riverfront Crossings.
It fits within the form based code requirement, um, as that was all laid out, and....will
there be some short-term or longer term impacts? I think any time you make changes in
an economic system, there are, but....do we sit here and say no to a project like this
because....to protect other business owners? So do you....do you give them the
advantage because they were there first, so to speak.
Thomas/Yeah, Susan, I....I've never really viewed this as saying no to the project. It's always
been a question of....and what I....what I got out of reading this,um,this document was
really the...you know, we're talking about a project that I think no one here is saying
should be less in my mind, you know,the....the, among the three of us who are in
disagreement, less than 10 stories. So it's a....it's a significant project. What we're
talking about, in my mind, is....how well will it fit in terms of the scale and character of
the development, within the larger setting. And....to some degree that, this document
confirmed those concerns for me, looking at some of the aerials and the way in which it's
viewed from different points of view. Uh, so....you know, in my mind that then
triggered, okay, what....what are some comparables, what...even within Iowa City do we
see in terms of residence halls and their size. Um, the University, to my knowledge, has
no residence hall over 12 stories. Uh, Petersen is 10, the....the two newer ones, Catlett is
12 and I believe Petersen is....is either 9 or 10 stories. So....that is....that is the scale at
which we are talking about, for the project. It's not a dramatic change in scale,but it's...
it is a change in scale. I also looked at an example in....in Iowa City, as a comparable,
uh, was...were the four buildings, uh, that form the student residences on Clinton Street.
The Clinton ensemble is what I (laughs) what I referred to it as, and....and what is its
density compared to 12 Court, and what I....what I found on a per acreage basis is 12
Court is about 36%higher in density than the Clinton ensemble. So it's...it's that to
me...it's that kind of consideration, that the....the imagery I saw in this document, uh, and
then looking at comparables within Iowa City itself suggested,uh, a revision in scale. I
don't see it as being a....a radical change in scale. It certainly will have some potential
benefit in terms of the vacancy issues. Uh, but it's....it's still calling for a significant
sized project. Um, but it's....it's trying to, in my mind, optimize all the issues we're
dealing with—urban design,uh,providing student housing in an excellent location. I
don't think anyone disagrees with that. And then lastly I would say the other thing I took
away from this was the design of Capitol Street itself. Um,the....the design of that, at
least it's shown in this plan as very auto-oriented. It's, um, 60% of a 100-foot right-of-
way is dedicated to automobiles, either parking or in terms of lane, traffic lanes.
Mims/But the City's gonna make that determination, right?
Pruitt/We haven't had any discussion on(both talking)
Thomas/I understand it's a placeholder, but...but the....the question in my mind is, if....if we're
going to promote the reopening of Capitol Street, I would like that street to be a great
street. It's...it is the complementary north/south access to Iowa Avenue,running through
Old Capitol, which is the...really the organizing principle of this town in terms of its
design. So it's a very important street. I want it to be a great street. I believe in terms of
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great streets, the Anne Cleary walkway to the north, which is part of this access...I'm not
suggesting that that be what we do on this piece, but...it....it should inspire us to....to
achieve a very high quality to that pedestrian space. The....the height of the buildings
that define that space are....have a significant impact on the experience of that space. So,
in terms of its sense of enclosure and the amount of sunlight that it receives. So in my
mind we....we, I....I feel we have a project with a certain baseline, um, in terms of the
bonus heights I'm thinking that the transfer and the, uh, high quality student environment
I would certainly accept, um, as part of the, um, awarding the bonus heights. Uh, the five
stories, to me, is where the design of this project comes in, you know, in terms of making
sure that it's....it's a high quality urban design, as well as a high quality for the structures
themselves. Um, and I can see perhaps some degree of award beyond that 10 stories,uh,
for the reopening of Capitol, but it's...it's the execution of the design. It's taking the,
what I almost consider to be the diagram of what we have now and giving it an
architectural character through that....further articulation of how it relates to the place.
Um, so...I....I don't, it's amazing to me that we're....I don't feel there's that much
difference between our two positions, um....at least in terms of building height, but I
think those....those floors matter, um, in the end and....I'm....I'm not willing, at this
point, given the information in this document,to sign off on...you know, 15 stories across
the board. I just feel that there's....there's enough information in this document to
suggest...there will be concern when that building is built and people will ask 'Who made
that decision?' um, so you know that's basically where I...I feel I'm comfortable at this
point.
Taylor/I think that goes back to what our original intent of this discussion was, uh, the
discussion of bonuses and....and whether to give bonuses or how much bonuses, and
in...in the discussion it talked about the provision of student housing in a desired location
would allow them...they're requesting one and a half stories for that, and there's no
question on that, it...it is an extremely desirable location. It's a wonderful location, and
in fact I think currently the Pentacrest Garden Apartments don't look that bad,but
obviously they don't blend in with the newer surroundings around there so it would be
nice to....to see some newer, more modern buildings there. Uh,the other was, the
historic preservation,the transfer of development rights. Uh, and I...I don't think we
should go back on our word and it's my understanding that we sort of implied with the
Tate Arms building and the building that was built next to that, uh, that they would be
allowed, they still have an allowance for...for future height,uh,but they....they asked for,
uh, half on that, so that's an extra two. Where I have a problem with and,uh, John
touched on that a little bit was the dedication of the Capitol Street right-of-way for five
floors,uh, that seemed like, uh, that seemed like pretty exorbitant because, uh, for one
thing...that used to belong to the City. That was the heart of Capitol Street and we gave it
up to them, uh, for the name of urban renewal, so it just seems....just outlandish to me
that,uh,we would,uh, do that,uh, for the dedication of that, when it was kind of in the
original plans anyway that it would be converted to either pedestrian or auto. So to allow
that for the extra height bonus, I don't understand and...and personally I don't like the
term or even the thought of bonuses. I see it, uh, as...almost like bribery,uh...uh,
definition of bribe is favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or
conduct of a person. So I...and I just don't think we should be in the business of...of
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bribery or offering these kinds of bonuses,uh, for that. If they want a 15-story building,
they...they can ask for it and also there's been talk about the jobs and again I see my, uh,
union brother Bill Gerhard out there in the audience, and talk about, uh, union jobs and
labor, uh,there's still....there's still jobs for 10-story, 12-story,versus 15-story. There's
still gonna be jobs and that leads to another comment I wanted to make as far as,uh, in
the little glossy story that we got, it...it did talk about, uh, utilizing, uh,union labor to
build it,but uh, I didn't see a real general obvious intent. The language was rather vague.
I'd like to see a little stronger stance. Uh, it mentioned that they've been in conversation
with Bill Gerhard on this,uh, I....union labor, course people know my opinion on unions,
uh, it's the best way to go, it's the right way to go, do it right the first time. I also think,
we've been talking about visibility. It'd be great, uh, for folks to see,uh, the...the union
labor building these buildings and hopefully it'd be good for apprenticeships and getting
people to think(mumbled) I can do that, that'd be a great job. So I think that would have
a plus for that too. So, but again, that's gonna be 10 stories or 12 stories, it doesn't have
to be 15.
Throgmorton/So I'd like to tone down the word bribery. Let's just use the term incentive. The
clear intent here is to provide incentives,uh, to encourage developers to do things that are
of benefit to the public. And not....not to bribe anybody. It's to provide an incentive.
So,uh, so I....I just need to be clear about that. I...I would like to raise,uh, well,why...I
wanna agree with something else you said and then raise a different point, which I think
is pretty crucial here. Uh,what I wanna agree with is I do not believe that rededicating
the right-of-way to the City is worth five stories. I...I would not support that. I believe,
as I indicated several months ago, I think it's worth a story. One story. Uh, and...and,
uh, that's my judgment. Now the, uh.....gotta get my train of thought back in line here.
Um....having a sudden,uh, slippage. Oh yeah! The other thing I wanted to mention has
to do with....with risks, and....and I think we...at least need to be fully conscious of the
risks and....and do what we think is appropriate with those risks in mind. So I...I
personally think it could be very risky for the developer and for the City to proceed with
a 15-story project....with a completion date of 2023. So it's the time of this I wanna
draw attention to right now. What are the risks? The first is the risk of declining
enrollments at the University of Iowa. I'm not saying that's gonna happen, I don't know,
but I...I can tell ya I think there's a lot of uncertainty about that. So that's one thing. The
second is, the risk of the University of Iowa making a policy decision to require second-
year students to live on campus. I know some people went to a presentation made by a U
of I administrator a couple or three nights ago, or days ago, and that administrator drew
attention to this, and we know this, that they are considering possibly, uh....uh, requiring
second-year students to live on campus, and they're going to initiate a trial program,uh,
with regard to that. We also know, and this is something that administrator mentioned, is
that Mayflower currently is at 60% enrollment, or uh, occupancy, not enrollment. So, it
seems to me the smart thing for a developer to do is to phase the project in incrementally
over a longer period of time; and for us to say, yes, 15 stories, go ahead,be done by 2023
is a big risk for the developer,but more importantly for us in the City, cause we can find
that the University's enrollment goes down or that the University decides to put second-
year students on campus. Then what?
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Cole/I'd like to hear what Maz...Maz has to say.
Throgmorton/ Sure!
Salih/Yeah. I'm just gonna talk about the affordable housing piece to this, you know. I guess
you guys talk enough about everything else, but no one like really mentioned affordable
housing. (unable to understand) comment here. I'm just gonna go ahead and read it.
First I have previously stated that I will support up to 15 story height for the building in
this project, if the affordable housing requirement is met with the fee in lieu payment of
at least...uh,by I guess the present one is 94,652 (unable to understand) housing unit. I
have also stated that I want the fee in lieu payment to be used for achieving two
important affordable housing goal. And I'm gonna say those two important goals
(mumbled) First, permanent affordability. We should not invest in affordable housing
that is going to disappear in the future. Second, like$400 a month rent. This is the rent
amount that is...is not cost-burden for an annual income of at least$16,000. If we look at
table 10 in the City STEP, 2016-2010, clearly show that those families and single
individual in this income range have by far the greatest need for no cost burden rental
housing and really my dream is that the City should use this table as a(mumbled) guide
for any like, uh, when they doing affordable housing I mean. As far as the...big number
(mumbled) the affordable housing that the, provided by the developer, those three....you
know,the three....option, I just....I really would like to start with number two. I don't
support number two. I don't support(unable to understand) somewhere else. It will be
converted to affordable housing for a period of 30 years. No, I don't support that. And I
don't support an annual, if we went with number one, I don't support an annual fee in
lieu(unable to understand) proposed in option one. I do support a requirement,uh, that
the fee in lieu payment, applicable to each project, is (unable to understand) permit is
issued, and that amount of the fee in lieu will be the amount provided by the City policy.
And number three, number three like, uh, is...especially housing facility for our under-
served and most at-risk population. You know, the idea in general is really good. I like
it,but why should our under-served and at-risk population wait until five year after 2000
....2023, which is 2008, so we can build something for them? Basically I don't support
the three of them. I would vote for this, yes, for 15-story building if the fee in lieu is
made on time in each phase at the....the....the permit,when they issue the permit for this,
the building permit. That's the only time I will support the 15-story. Other than that, no.
Mims/Geoff, when do we usually require developers to pay the fee in lieu of? Is it occupancy
or...
Fruin/It's at building permit.
Mims/ It is at building permit.
Salih/Building permit, yeah.
Mims/Just askin'. Didn't know!
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Salih/I search it!
Mims/In terms of the fee in lieu of, or in terms of the affordable housing, I have some concerns
with what's in the plan. Urn, I mean I can be supportive of both....I think there needs to
be some on-site, first of all. I think there needs to be that opportunity for some students
to access it on-site. Urn, we do have students who qualify. I don't know what that magic
number is and...and I'm, you know, willing to let staff, you know, try and negotiate that
in terms of, you know, talking with the developer, maybe with the University. Um, I
think we need to have a percentage as fee in lieu of and I think we need to have, urn, and
I would be willing to do some off-site. Urn, I don't think the....the 20 units for 30 years
is even viable,based on our City code,urn, is my understanding. So, urn,that's a
problem right there that needs to be, urn,needs to be resolved, and I....and I have a
problem, like Maz, I have a problem with the$3 million being basically eight or nine
years out, um, no time value of money assigned to that. So really I didn't crunch it on my
calculator, but I mean that might in today's dollars be 2.2, 2.4, 2.6 million or something,
and I....and I don't think the number of units that are attached to that 3 million,urn,
probably match up either. So...you know, as I've said before, I'm...conceptually
supportive of the 15 stories. I think work needs....some significant work needs to be
done on the affordable housing piece. I would agree with Jim on the fact that,uh, and I
think staff could negotiate this, but there needs to be, urn, I don't know if significant is
the right word,but there needs to be more than just token study space and gathering space
within these buildings. Um, so it needs to be real in terms of the benefit to the students
for, um, good academic environment. Um....I....think those were my only main
concerns, and the other thing I would mention if I recall correctly, the....the potential
bonus for right-of-way is actually written in the code, is it not?
Froin/Yes.
Mims/So when Council Members are....saying that they don't believe that the developer should
get five floors for,uh, dedicating Capitol Street back to the City, that is what the City put
in the code in terms of the square footage,uh, the relationship between right-of-way and
bonuses. So this is not something that the developer is asking,urn,that's extraordinary or
unreasonable. If anything as a City we need to go back and look at that code and maybe
change the formula,but it is the formula that is in place now, so I would say that the
developer has every right to use the way the code is currently written.
Cole/And if I could comment, I haven't had a chance to speak yet. You know what this city has
been trying to accomplish for at least the 50 years is to basically answer one question—
and that question is is how do we provide high quality student housing for our students in
the City of Iowa City, and at the same time keep our neighborhoods open, accessible for
people of all ages. Students, we absolutely love ya! We would not be Iowa City without
our student population. However, students have different schedules than sometimes
people of different ages, and so what we've been trying to do, and part of the theory of
the Riverfront Crossings is to allow bonuses for high quality student development and
also to increase our tax base, and also to make sure that we have, uh, essentially the
locations that are most close to the University, that those are built-out to the maximum
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potential. We get a proposal from one of our top architects in town. Neumann Monson
has done great work throughout the city. It's tailor-made for this location. It is not a
beautiful location right now. Uh, it is gonna....it's a$175 million project,that they're
willing to serve up to us without one penny of taxpayer dollar, and I think to quote, I
think the other issue that we have here is we have families, single moms, workers looking
to us right now, and seeing what we're gonna do on a$175 millions that's gonna be
directed directly into this,um, community, and when I walk by these various projects and
I see these people workin' out in the cold and the rain,those people make good
mon...wages and they make an honest living, and we are dithering on this project, and
I'm a....I'm a conservative guy. I don't like gambling when we have$175 million
investment that they wanna make and we're not providing clear guidance as to which
direction they can go! And I think if we're talking about 15 story buildings, and what I
don't understand, you know, Susan, I was not trackin' you on the solar, but I am trackin'
ya on this project, um, are we really willing to....to compromise and to let go a project,
over three stories? I don't understand it! I mean if we're talking about 12 stories, are we
gonna have housing Armageddon at 15? I...I....I just do not see that, and this notion that,
um,you know, in terms of how we're talking about this plan, I think we also have to talk
about what our role is—I do not view, at this stage, to rewrite the comprehensive plan as
written. I think it's to administer what is before us, and so what I think that we do...new
expectations that we don't like the height bonuses, this discussion would have been good
to have in 2013 when the plan was adopted, or in 2014 when the,um, code was...was
written. So I have every confidence, and frankly I have liked how the development team
has approached this. I think they've....they've been very thoughtful,they've been very
patient, they've worked with us. But one would presume that their patience is not
unlimited, and so I just...from the bottom of my heart, we have to be clear about what we
want, and I support 15 stories at all corners. I think it's a unique opportunity that we
could really regret if we don't, and I think as to the affordable housing piece,urn, I
confess it's' not an expert piece,uh....uh,part, but I think it's certainly a good starting
point. What I loved about it is, you know, $2 million in cash is no small thing. I think
that that was real. Urn, in terms of 20 affordable housing units at 30 years,that's
certainly better than the 10, um, and I think a....a tailor-made$3 million project that they
would pay for over five years,my....my thought is the reason why they're doing that is
so they can get some of the cash flow off this project to help pay for some of this. So I
just think we have to be clear on this, and then in terms of,um, the height bonuses, I
think in terms of predictability. We need to be predictable, and I think there is a point
where we, you know, much in the same way that the form based code where we had, said
hey in the South District where we wanna do the form based code, that's where we
express our preferences. Not at this stage where we disagree with it as written, and I
think that's a major mistake to add all this uncertainty in it, and we have. That' s the
reality is,we have created uncertainty. So what I'm hopeful is that if we have four votes
for 15,that we narrow in on the,um, affordable housing piece. Hopefully the
development team can reach out to Mazahir, Susan, and we can move forward with this
project,because I...I just think we've spent way too much time on this, and we need to
solve this problem and secure in this gain for the community. That's all I have to say.
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Throgmorton/Guess what? I pretty much disagree with virtually everything you said, the way
you said it, because you're assuming that there's only one choice, and that one choice is
exactly what the developer's applied for. No other choice, and anything below it is
giving up all this opportunity to...make, increase the tax revenue,have jobs for good....
good workers, and....and save the, uh, close-in neighborhoods, etc., as if a...an 11 or 12-
story average size....average height building complex would not accomplish the same
objectives, only not quite so much. So you just assuming,uh, an either or kind of choice,
nothing or 15 stories, exactly what the developer wants. I don't think we oughta let
ourselves be in a position where we do exactly what a developer wants. That's a
mistake! And...moreover, in my judgment, this proposed project, if it's exactly what the
developer wants, a complex of four, whatever, 15-story towers,it will alter the character
of this city forever! And people will remember, and they won't like it. I can't tell ya
how many people I encounter who say what are you people doin'?
Cole/(mumbled) as opposed to 12?
Throgmorton/Well, 12's better if it's well designed and it's an average of 12. It's not perfect!
You know what I think is better? I think better is somethin' like 10....six to 10.
Somewhere in that range. But....I am willing to compromise. That's what I did back
when we were discussing the rezoning. I expressed a willing to compromise, and I stated
very clearly how I got to that point. I'm not....not gonna go over 12 stories, average. I
won't do it.
Cole/Guess we have to count noses then, don't we?
Throgmorton/I guess we do! And that'd be a good thing. So, um....uh, is there a neutral,uh,
party listening in. Geoff, do you think,uh,have we failed to discuss anything that would
really be helpful to the developer or to the staff, or to us really, that, you know,that....
that we've failed to touch on?
Fruin/Again, I think they're driven by units. So...the, and that's directly related to building
height at this time. I'm hearin' three strong noes on 15 stories. I think the other four of
ya need to articulate what it would take to get to 15 stories,um, and then the development
team's gonna have to decide. Either walk away from this thing and leave it as is, or, uh,
compromise if they can and get....get goin' into a design phase.
Mims/I....I don't think I have any...I would hope that mine are not huge hangups for the
development team. Um,you know like I said I....I agree with Jim that I think there needs
to be, um....adequate space for studying and things like that,that it's not just token space
and....and I would trust that you guys would take that to heart and....and....know that, so
that when you come back,you know, I don't say wait a minute, you didn't do it. And I
think because I do believe there are some things in the affordable housing that we can't
do anyways, uh, with the way it's currently written, I think that does have to be
negotiated and urn, I would trust that, you know, with Geoff's efforts and....and yours
that we could come up with something that I would find acceptable. So I....I think, I
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think I'm pretty much a hard yes with just a couple little qualifications that I think need
to be addressed there.
Fruin/ So I think I've got Rockne, Mazahir, if I heard you correctly, you want 100%fee in lieu of
to get to 15, and that's non-negotiable?
Salih/No, it's not negotiable.
Fruin/Okay. So then it's....all eyes on Mr. Teague.
Throgmorton/This is where we started, Bruce(laughter)
Teague/Well I appreciate you all takin' me down the road of answerin' some of my questions.
Um, I...I guess I go back, and I respect everything everybody's said. I do go back to, uh,
what Pauline talked about was the incentives. Urn, you know, and the height bonuses,
and the master plan, the form based code,urn, and even the Capitol Street height
bonuses. So these are things already....you know, they've been identified and so for me
the 15 stories...have already been discussed, pre me. So I do....so I would be very likely
to support the,this project with the 15 stories. Now I do hear what the Mayor is saying,
phasin' it in. I think that that's somethin' that, you know,the developers might want to
think about for risk for themselves. Urn, I think, urn, you know(laughs) doesn't have to
be, you know, 12 or 15, I think there's, you know, some people here that would support
the project. It would be nice if we had more individuals supporting the project,urn, so if
there's....a way to (laughs) some, you know, to make the Councilors happy, urn, I...and I
think I say that,urn, make them happy, but urn, with....but addressin' their concerns of
why they're not, you know, right now supportin' the 15. So,personally I will, um, I'm
....I'm leanin' more towards supporting the 15, um, over this project. I am very hopeful
that we will get somethin' back, um,that would really, really be more pleasing to,urn,
even more, uh, Councilors.
Fruin/What I would suggest is that we....we dive into a couple of specific points. I think
we've...hit the affordable housing piece good but I...I'd like to hear you elaborate a little
bit more on the student experience, and the security and management plan. If there are
particular aspects, uh, when those come back to you what you'll be looking for, uh,that
would be really helpful to staff and the design team.
Mims/I'll talk about the security and management. Urn.....I've, you know, in visiting one of the
other more of our newer ones in terms of security, um, and you've addressed some of this
in here,but maybe not in quite as much detail, but they have, and I think with facilities
this large and with this many residents, cameras at every entrance, cameras in every
hallway, cameras in every elevator bay,um, none of it is according to them, none of it is,
uh, is wiped, none of it's, you know, I suppose...I suppose today none of it's tapes. It's
probably all digital stuff,but so I mean if...if the police got a report of an assault that
occurred two weeks ago, they could come back and those recordings could be pulled.
Um, can see who's in those hallways. The electronic fobs for everything,which you
have mentioned in here, which I think is a real positive,that can be traced in terms of
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what fob has been used where, at what door and what time. Urn, and I think the
importance of that 24/7 on-site management and security, urn, we're talkin' about a lot of
people and making sure that they have access to somebody, urn, at all times, if they need
that. And then I...I think that the maintenance plan, real management maintenance, urn,
obviously when you're putting this much money into a project, there's also a lot of
maintenance that's gonna go on and there'll be a lot of foot traffic in and out of this
place, but...you know, a maintenance plan that, you kn ow, is enforceable from the
standpoint that when we get five years, 10 years down the road, you know, you walk in a
lot of these two and three story apartment buildings here in town and, you know, in the
first winter their goin' in and out of there with snow on their shoes, or in the spring
they're walkin' across the parking lot and gettin' into mud, and I mean those places
literally stink, urn, you know,because the carpet gets wet and it probably is moldy. So
just thinking about those kinds of things in terms of even your building materials in those
areas, and, urn, and I don't know from a legal standpoint what staff can build in there in
terms of, urn, a maintenance plan and oversight of that maintenance plan, which
obviously I assume would be enforced on the rental permit renewal,but, so those are the
kinds of things that....that I'm looking for in that aspect.
Throgmorton/Those sound like pretty good suggestions to me. Geoff, uh...uh, but I know you
and I have talked about having a building manager. Is that the term you used?
Mims/Well they've talked about 24/7 on-site manager security....management security (both
talking)
Throgmorton/ ...if there are 2,000 students, a thousand units, 2,000 students, whatever, uh, in
four towers there, I don't know that having one manager for the entire complex is
sufficient. So I would think that having....perhaps one in each building, which is like
500....500 students per building would be more reasonable. Uh, another thing that comes
to mind, and uh, there's there's some judgment involved in this, I know, uh, I...well,
I've done a tour of The Rise and I think it's quite admirable in many respects, and
certainly has appeal to many students from a basically a marketing point of view, uh,but
when I walked through I thought....is this really gonna be, uh, enable them to thrive
academically? And my answer was no,because there are so many large-scale TV screens
in most of the....the, uh, common areas, if not all. And so I....I think the team needs to
be very clear about....um.....thinking about what it takes to be a good student and how to
enable the students to do well in school,recognizing, I don't know(laughs) recognizing, I
mean it's really in the end up to the student, to work hard and do well. So,those two
things come to mind.
Taylor/I agree with that, Jim, and I think some of the photos I saw in there I did like of the
potential study areas that were shown. There were a lot of....lot of windows, lot of glass,
and I think that....that is important. I....I truly believe in the seasonal affect disorder and
the lack of sunshine and how that affects people's mood. So I think I....I would like to
see that also in the study areas,besides the lack of large TVs,but lots of light and, uh,
even natural lights, the windows, is good. I like that.
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Steward(noises on mic) Oop, sorry! Um,kind of adding on,urn, I think, uh....a lot of concerns,
urn,that I've heard overall with the, urn, student body at least is regarding the
maintenance, but specifically maintenance and amount of time they respond. I'm not
exactly sure if,um,that's something you can put in there, but I think when you're
looking at, um, a property that's gonna have several, urn, it will have thousands of
people,urn, what does that response rate look like? Of course it depends on the...all the
details, urn, on this situation from the maintenance concern, but if you're specifically
looking at emergency maintenance concerns,how is that being taken care of, and is that
being taken care of in a responsive manner? Urn, I'm not sure if there's something you
can put there, but that's something to think about. Urn, initially, um, this is kind of more
on a vague, uh,notion that, urn,with a lot of students, urn, especially,urn,the access to
food, specifically, uh, grocery store, but obviously it's kinda hard to navigate that,but
urn, that's just an overall issue with the lack of affordable grocers in the,urn, downtown
and central areas of the city. Urn, so....not sure how that...if you can,urn, encourage
that, but I think when you have all of these students,urn,there, urn, or individuals,they'll
need the,urn, most likely take a car to a grocery store,urn, so that's something to
consider when we're looking at so if they have a car versus not. Urn, additionally,urn,
study spaces, urn,possibility of an ITC lab that many,urn, and this is just me thinking
about it,but urn, obviously others,urn (mumbled)have more insight than just me, um,
just cause they know there are people that do not have computers, urn, at this time and
it's very necessary,but also how do you connect to, um, this...since there's gonna be
most likely gonna have a lot of students,how do you connect to University resources,
um, that...if we're, and that's more of a marketing thing, um, so something in the, urn, at
least in the residence halls is that they have, uh, screens, um, on every floor to advertise,
um, events or resources, um....I'm not exactly sure if that's something you can put in
there, again,but that's something to be thinking about when, urn, developing, urn, and
catering to,uh, this building that probably will have a substantial amount of students.
And those are just some thoughts.
Teague/Do we know what the parking'll look like for,to accommodate the stu....for, uh, the
residents?
Taylor/Underground.
Fruin/Yeah there's a specified ratio. I believe it's a, uh, a quarter parking space per unit.
Teague/And I'm assumin' that's sufficient.
Fruin/Correct,yeah,that's....that's defined in code and their intention is to place that
underground...with this development.
Throgmorton/Did you have other questions, Geoff? I thought you were saying you had a couple
or three points you wanted to mention.
Fruin/Well I think....I think those are from a design standpoint, if they decide to go forward, uh,
those are probably the two biggest areas, um.....I don't necessarily have anything else. If
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you wanna engage the design team at all and ask them if they have questions so that
they... if they have any unanswered issues that you could talk about it more. Um....
Throgmorton/I, urn,think that'd be fruitful to do. I don't....Rob, I don't know if you wanna ask
us any questions or.....get us to elaborate on any particular point. (unable to hear person
speaking from audience) I'm not tryin' to force ya to do that.
Decker/No, I actually came prepared to answer questions. Um, I mean I have a lot more
statements than questions, but this isn't the time or place in that. Um, a couple of the, can
I offer some points of clarification to some of the things you said, maybe some general
things?
Throgmorton/Yeah, sure.
Decker/A lot of these things in the...in the report and the pre-application, and if you do have
design questions I would encourage you to engage Tim. Um, he's the President of
Neumann Monson and a lead for our team here, uh, as well,but um....a lot of the things
is a....is a statement of intent(mumbled) glasses. The document is meant to provide a
pathway. It's meant to provide you with our intent to a pretty high level, to a pretty high
degree, of what we want to do, because we want to kick into a design phase, a....a seven-
figure design phase, that as you can imagine, none of us, I wouldn't want to do it, go into
a seven-figure design phase without some sort of feeling and so the, uh, security piece,
for example, is meant to be an outline and that's why I put in the statement from sort of
the initial drafts, that we will develop a full security piece, whether it be with Freeman
Lock and Alarm locally in doing Woodman Controls or Johnson Controls, and corning up
with a really comprehensive plan that the building, urn, department can....can bring, and
that....that plan that we make will essentially become an enforceable plan that they can
slap down and say these are the provisions for what you need to do. And the same way
the affordable housing piece, it's not meant as a locked in affordable housing piece. It's
meant as a....as a gesture. I wrote it,um, I wrote it with the development team because I
felt, and this is my opinion as an Iowa City citizen, I feel like it's a better application of
affordable housing to be able to hit a number of areas. That's just my opinion. That
doesn't mean, and Geoff stated it earlier when we met, I think the point of that page is
that we are flexible, and we want to reach an agreement that works for everybody. Um,
we....and we are, at the other point of that page, with the sort of units and, uh,
equivalency, is meant that...is meant to convey the fact that we are prepared to provide
more than the base minimum, to make this project work. Um, and....and so it is a little
bit hard for me to hear that it's not a very good proposal,because I think the proposal
offers, without asking for height bonus, additional affordable housing than what we have
to give. In regards to the University engagement, we have met with them, uh, a couple of
times with Rod and David, and with Melissa Shivers twice. Um, the, uh,the reason that
they were engaging with us, the very reason that we met with them and this is going all
the way back to last winter, was because of the second year on campus. They were
engaging our project because they were interested in second-year on campus. Why were
they interested in it? They have, I'm gonna get the numbers wrong, you can ask them,
but Iowa State has something like 6,500 more beds than us. For their equivalent they're
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within less than 2,000 students, student population. The point being, the beds are very,
very understaffed in Iowa City and you're not going to put 7,000 beds online in town for
that many students for what they want to do for second year. So they're looking,they're
not engaging us to buy the building or to do anything like that. There's rumors of all...
they're talking to us because they're interested in a project and they're interested at the
scale we're at,because there would be probably be some collaboration and that's why I
was trying to express that piece was that we intend to engage Melissa and Rod and
whoever, we would talk to anybody and we intend to—public security wise, student
experience wise,which you're all very interested in. We intend to have a lot of dialogue
along those lines,to make sure that those things marry up. Urn, and so that's why I put
that piece in there, is because they are very interested in the project because they need the
beds. Urn,that's not why the project is going forward,but...Tim could probably speak, I
know there was some questions earlier on about the difference between an eight and a 15.
Urn,the....a project, and he can...he can speak about it way better than I can,but the....
There's a difference,the reason 316 next door,uh, I have knowledge of that project cause
we worked on it. I know the developer, and it stayed at seven or eight, whatever it's at,
but it got approved to 15. You'll see those being the levels that a lot of buildings go to
because the type of construction, which you're alluding to, goes to what people'll call
steel and glass or steel and concrete and glass, as opposed to what you see around town in
a lot of these kind of lower story buildings, is they need...that's exponential to go to that
cost, and you need to get to a certain level to pay back that cost, and your dol...the
dollars,the rents go up as you get higher up in the buildings. It's not surprising, and a lot
of those upper stories are what pay for the project. Um, 175 million is a good guess. The
project is probably more like 180 to 200 million, so not a ton more,but that's sort of the
baseline that we're setting. Um.....the,um....there was....I felt like there was one other
thing....did not mention TIF because we...it hasn't been something that we're...has been
on the plate. It hasn't been a discussion topic of ours. It hasn't,to my knowledge,there
are no buildings of this scale in town that don't have it. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong,but
I don't(both talking)
Throgmorton/The Rise did not get a TIF.
Decker/What's that?
Throgmorton/The Rise did not get a TIF.
Decker/The Rise didn't, but The Rise was effectively a City project too. So....(both talking)
that's kind of....to me The Rise is sort of its own...its own animal, if you will. Um....but
I...I think that this project is unique. It's very different from The Rise. It's similar...it
would be a similar scale but it's different, you know, talking about the, urn,that's kind of
like...I don't wanna....I don't wanna describe what they are but they, um,we're different.
I would encourage you to look at our project under....as it is,to its own merits. It's...it's
lower, the site topography provides the opportunity to put some variation in the site.
Um.....but you know,yes, I....I hear a lot of discussion in that sort of 10, 11, to 15 range
and that sort of sliver across the top and what that difference is, and that....that difference
can....can make or break the project. I mean some of the assumption of, well why
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couldn't we just do a 10 or 12? I....I don't wanna make statements here because we're
looking for a path forward. We wanna kick into a...the reason that a 10 or 12 may not be
out there is because there may not be a 10 or 12. It might not be 15 or 11. It might just
be there just isn't a project, right? I don't have....I'm not doing the proforma. I'm not
the developer running those numbers, but....but we have a program and...and Tim was,
did a really nice job with his team working through the program. The document that you
see has a lot of design behind it. There...it's a conceptual document, but there's...it is
flushed out. It was flushed out now to a degree where those footprints work and those...
those items work, and so it's not a design per se. That's what we're asking to move into
next,but it is...it is pretty well researched, flushed out, and preliminarily conceptually
designed. So....hopefully that provides some clarification. I would encourage you to ask
Tim some questions if you have some.
Schroeder/Hi, I'm Tim Schroeder.
Throgmorton/Hi,Tim.
Schroeder/I can speak to the cost issue. So, Rockne, you brought that up. So there's, uh, what
you see in Iowa City is seven, eight-story buildings and then 15-story buildings, and
that's...because of that cost threshold. When you reach a high-rise level, the cost goes up
quite a bit and so you've got to build to the maximum to kind of make the dollars worth
spending, so that's why, you know, I haven't really seen a, other than the residence halls,
a 12-story or a 10-story building. It's seven, eight, or 15. And more often than not the...
the most recently constructed buildings that are at that seven-story, eight-story threshold
are now going to wood to be as affordable as possible. So that....that's kind of the...the
issues. I'm not sayin' it's impossible to make a 12-story building, but it hasn't proven
out yet. So, I just note that.
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/Okay, I think we've processed this enough. All right, gonna move ahead! Thank
you,Tim. Thank you, Rob. Nice seeing you again. Okay, we get to move to
clarification of agenda items.
Salih/Item 6i.
Throgmorton/ 6i. Go ahead! That's the one about the email from Melissa Dunham,uh, about
benches on the ped mall and about how they're hostile to homeless people, right? Or
allegedly so, right? Do you wanna talk about that?
Salih/Yeah, I just receive some calls about it,uh, I was overseas. I just came yesterday and, uh,
yeah. I, you know, I know that I ask the City Manager. He said we discuss this design
on the meeting of January 16. I guess that was my second meeting,right? Maybe I
overlook it and I don't understand anything about it, uh,but uh, yeah. I really have many
questions I wanna ask, like why did we design those, you know, that benches that way
and, uh....also if we really thought about design some of them different way and other
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one like different way. I really need like some clarification about that because, uh, you
know, I...I always think, uh, any public space should be used by everyone,regardless of
(mumbled) if they are homeless or not.
Fruin/I...I can respond briefly. We,uh,we started the design work, or I guess the master
planning work in I think 2013 for the downtown, looking not just at the ped mall but the
greater area. Uh, that process we focused on everything from utilities to benches to lights
to trash cans, you name it. If it's part of the public realm we were talkin' about it. Our
first project was Washington Street. That took place a....a couple years ago and we
completed that. Uh, you'll see the benches on Washington included the center arm. As
we, uh, transition to the pedestrian mall,uh, we had the same design. It's a different
bench, uh, so it doesn't look exactly the same, but it still has that center arm. Uh,the, uh,
decision to use that arm was based solely on one factor and that's to increase the effective
seating area. Uh, I'll focus on the ped mall, uh, during the ped mall design charrettes that
we had, public meetings, there was a call for more seating in the ped mall. Uh, at that
time we had roughly 178 seating opportunities,uh, down there,but there was a clear
desire for more, and as you know,that's a fixed geographic space and benches take up a
considerable amount of time...or space, not just in where they're located but the, kind of
the radius around it that you have to keep clear. So the design team was looking for ways
to increase seating opportunities with....with those geographic constraints. Uh, we opted
for those benches with the center arms and,uh,the theory behind that is that you're more
likely to share a bench with a stranger if there is a visual cue or barrier on that bench. So
instead of a standard bench, if someone was sitting there, many people may not feel
comfortable just go sitting next to a stranger,but when you have that visual cue, that
divider there,more people are....are more comfortable with that, uh, seating opportunity.
So we believe that will increase the effective,uh, seating area, and uh, when we looked at
the....we looked at the numbers, uh, our projection was that you go from 178 seating
areas to about 213 when the project's complete. Again,without really expanding the, uh,
the footprint that those benches are....are taking up.
Salih/I really...I don't know,but I really think like two inches of separation is not gonna like
really make the people feel like they are not a stranger or....I don't know,but uh, I think
we....we should like look into that again and we should like consider this....is this not
even for other people, a lot of people talk about this on social media and like people like
calling about it in the newspaper. I read it on the television I guess and I...I thinks we
need to do something about those benches in the ped mall. You know...
Throgmorton/We gotta,uh, in our late handout I think it was, we received a copy of an email
from someone thanking us for having that....armrest in the middle of benches because for
a disabled person, according to this person who write, Eve Cassidy, uh,that's really
beneficial to be able to push one's self up more easily, and I don't know, Bruce, you
might be able to talk to that.
Teague/Yeah, I just pulled up Eve Cassidy's, um, email that's in the late handout,um, and she
made a point of,urn, acknowledging the....uh, you know, the use for elderly or
individuals that are disabled, um,just to have like that ability to push themselves up,uh,
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decrease risk of fall, injuries, um....you know, I....I think I hear exactly what you're
saying, Maz, as far(both talking)
Salih/ ....we can do both. We can do some of them like this, some of them other way. Also like
for people who are really, you know, there is some people like big size,they can sit on...
they cannot sit on that too, you know (both talking) really(both talking)
Mims/ ...bench.
Salih/You....you wanna serve like certain people and you don't want to serve other people?
(both talking)
Mims/Who's not being served? I would rather put significant effort, and I've seen some of this
on the social media, and....franldy it drives me crazy because.....people will be out there
complaining about this because, oh, you did it so homeless people don't have a place to
sleep. Okay? That's not why we did it. Number one. And number two, I would rather
put my time and my effort and my money, and I would wish those people would, into
finding actually significant, effective ways to help the homeless than....I do the KCJJ
radio twice a month and Steve Soboroff lost his brother recently and he...life time of
mental health problems, and Steve was very, very vocal about the fact that he thought this
was a crazy argument. To him it was enabling people, and that what we really need to
spend our time and energy and money on is actually getting people with mental health
problems, homelessness, significant help, not worrying and complaining about whether
there's an arm on a bench. And I totally agree with it.
Cole/Well along those lines, I think that's the point of the Behavioral Access Center, for people
with mental health needs and our Housing First, so, um....I think that's where I am too. I
mean I think part of the problem where we are as a country is we always assume the
worst intentions, but....l haven't gone back and seen any minutes where the...the topic of
preventing homeless from sitting on those benches was the motive. I mean if someone
can find that in the audience, and say that that was the motive and that there's evidence of
that, I think people assume that, but I....I haven't found that, and I'm very proud of what
we've done with the Housing First in terms of our zoning and I'm very proud of the
Behavioral Access that's going to be (both talking)
Salih/But, Rockne, you know,the....I guess, I don't know, I wasn't here, but correct me if I'm
wrong. I think that the City passed an ordinance in 2012 or 14 to...to prohibit people to
lay down on the benches between the hours of 10:00 P.M. to 5:00 A.M. in the morning,
and just think about it,what that...what that means. We don't want homeless people to
sleep there! You know, we don't have to say everything obvious, so they can...we can
(mumbled) but when....when the City like pass an ordinance like this, that's (mumbled)
for whom this has been made, and now we comin' up like many years later and we just
start putting those hand there and with that like ordinance, you know, the people gonna
assume that our intention, even(mumbled) I believe 100% this is not like the intention of
the City to prevent homeless from sleeping there. I know that what the City start doing
about like the Housing First, as you said, and everything that we try to do to help, to end
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the homeless in....in our community. Uh,but you know when this coming up like this, I
guess people have no choice to think about this except like we are targeting the homeless
people, and uh...I don't know. If...yes, the City's doing like so much but we are really
moving very slowly and you know like ending homelessness or doing like affordable
housing or, yeah, we doing something,but we are not going like as fast as, you know,
when you early was talking about the urgency of the, you know, ending the carbon
emissions and all this kind of things. You know, that energy....I wanna see the same
energy you doing it of ending homeless.
Cole/Yeah!
Salih/You know like providing house, even I think this is more important than all the solar
panels, let us like make those people live, that they, you know, the life that they should
live. Before we can do anything else. The City is going too fast on the ped mall, like
even how much was the ped mall costing? If we really direct that money to build
affordable housing and ending homeless and see how the rate that we going on doing
(unable to understand) and all those things, we're doing like...we going fast on doing
those. Those are good things, yes,but we have to think about the need before the want,
and I think like(mumbled) affordable housing and finding a place for the homeless is
really need and crisis in the city, and we should focus on that. And, uh, sorry, the last
thing is, I know that, you know,just makin' the benches with no arm or whatever, that's
not gonna help the situation. As Susan Mims said,we need to focus on, you know, on
like real solid solution for this, but you know, for now we just...we don't need, if you can
do like (unable to understand) like this and other benches other way, why not? Just let us
accommodate everyone!
Thomas/Yeah, I (clears throat) I would just suggest, urn, cause I....I tend to agree with the...the
point that the benches are better utilized with mid-arms. There is the sense when...when
I approach a bench and I think many people take this approach,that if there isn't an arm,
um, if someone is sitting at that bench, you look for a second bench because it's...that
lack of social space separation, uh, and....and also the mid-arm might provide more help
for a person, um, getting out of the, you know, getting off the bench. One...one
possibility that, cause I...I design parks, you know, and sitting is a very important piece of
that. Um, one type of seating that does not have that same kind of social issue as benches
do, where you are kind of almost in a confined space,how do you negotiate that space
with another person that you don't know is having seat walls, uh, that run continuously,
uh, that are not.....with that kind of differentiation is not critical. So you could create
ledges where a person, if they wanted to lie down on that seat wall, would be able to do
that. Uh, and then when they're not there the....the seat wall just recedes. It's not, you
know, it's just a wall when no one's using it for sitting or whatever purpose they're using
it for. So I mean there are ways of providing ledges, spaces for someone if they chose to
lay out,uh, other than benches, and benches are...probably most effectively utilized if
you do have a mid-arm.
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Fruin/We....we do have seat walls, uh, so part of the 213 number that I gave you of seating
areas, once the ped mall renovation is finished, 24 of those are counted as seat walls, and
those, as you mentioned, do not have any type of dividers or barriers to...to laying down.
Throgmorton/All right. So we're almost out of time. I wonder if there are any other agenda
items that need to be brought up? I'm not hearin' any and given the time, maybe it's a
good moment to take a break. We've been doin' this for, what, two and a half hours?
(laughs) Yeah. So we'll come back to the information packet. (both talking) What's
that, Maz? What?
Salih/I feel like....anyway, okay, let's go to break!
Throgmorton/ So we'll return to the information packet, um, when, uh, after the formal meeting.
(BREAK TO FORMAL MEETING)
(RECONVENE WORK SESSION)
Information Packet Discussion [November 22, November 291:
Throgmorton/All right, now we need to shift into the work session. We're gonna pick up with
the information packet stuff. And like Mazahir was suggesting, I think this is gonna go
pretty quickly,but we'll see. (laughter) (mumbled) figure out where we are here.
(several talking)
Mims/While you're lookin', Jim, I'll just start on the November 2151 packet. Just wanted to
thank staff for the strategic plan report. It's always nice, you know, to get that update,
cause it's....with busy lives it's easy to forget what we're accom...what we're doing
and...and just to see the accomplishments that, you know, staff has gotten through. So,
and also it's just nice to have that, um, Ash Borer inventory Power Point that we asked
for, as well. So, appreciate those.
Throgmorton/Yeah, it's the...Power Point that was presented at our November 20th work
session.
Mims/Right.
Throgmorton/ So anybody who is interested can either watch it....streaming online or, uh, get a
copy by goin' to the web site. Anything else on the November 21'packet? Okay, let's
go to the November 28th packet, which incidentally is my birthday. We should be aware
of that. It's a really important thing (laughter) So....(several talking and laughing)
Uh...okay...anything on that topic....or on that....
Salih/Yeah, I have one. IP9, which as you know is the CPRB recommendation. The Citizen
Police Review Board recommendation. Uh, I really think that we should just like follow
up and approve the recommendation of the Police Citizen Review Board. I think this
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committee is great,but since I been there and I serve there for four years, I think
this...this part is really weak. They....they need to be....and a lot of people in the
community they calling for a strong, you know, police review board and uh, you know,
this recommendation will make them really stronger and we....we should really approve
all their recommendations.
Throgmorton/Maz, you were on the board for a while, weren't you?
Salih/Yes, I was there for four year...four years or something.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Salih/And I think like for example, if, uh....say if our like (unable to understand) and the Police
Chief did not sustain like un-sustain it. What...what gonna happen? Nothing. You
know, I...I think, you know, this is really nothing about (unable to understand) Police
Chief(unable to understand)have great Police Chief and we have a lot great, you know,
police officer,but uh, I just think the community need stronger Police Citizen (mumbled)
Board, and the only way that they can become stronger is this new recommendation.
Mims/Well I...I guess I kinda disagree. I...I have no problem with the first 10, looking at the
memo that the staff did, and staff basically had no problem with the first 10
recommendations. Um, number one, in terms of making CPRB stronger,there's a lot of
State laws that limit what CPR...what the CPRB can do. So there's...there's definite
restrictions there. Um, when I read through staffs concerns about number 11, um, I
thought they had a lot of....very good, very detailed arguments,um, in terms of, and it
sounded like they already, CPRB already has the ability to hire an independent
investigator earlier on in the process, but the timing and some of the details, so I mean I
would be supportive of a...of one through 10,but not number 11. I think the staff, and
there's code re...or issues in here it looked like as well,um, and personnel issues. So...I
would go along with staff's recommendation.
Throgmorton/Anyone else? I....
Cole/I was just going to say, I would support a work session on 11 so that we could have more
time to think about it,but I would support the changes one through 10, as Susan outlined
and as to 11, excuse me, because that's sort of a meatier, more complicated issue, urn, I
think it might be worthy of, um, further study in a work session. So that would be my
approach.
Throgmorton/ I wanna say that I feel like y'all have me at a disadvantage because I ran out of
time and wasn't able to read this and I don't know what's in one through 10. I don't
know what's in 11 either, uh, so I would say given that, and given what everybody else
has said, that I would support one through 10 but have some focused attention on 11.
Salih/Yeah. That's....
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Throgmorton/That sound reasonable to the rest of you? We can do that at our next meeting I
suppose.
Fruin/Could put it on the work session for discussion.
Cole/Sure.
Throgmorton/ I think that sounds (several responding)
Fruin/And also,just....go ahead.
Salih/Can we provide like some of them?
Fruin/Yeah, we can certainly let 'em know and anybody can attend (mumbled) but we could let
the Commission know.
S alibi Sure.
Fruin/Uh, I do wanna call your attention to make sure that...in the memo that you saw that
there's also a staff recommendation that's coming from me, and that, uh, that concerns
my involvement in the police officer interviews. We had put in, uh, a....it was a
recommendation of the Ad Hoc Diversity Committee that the City Manager participate in
the officer interviews and that we were going to revisit that, uh, two years down the road.
It's been, I don't know, three, four years now, and my recommendation is to no longer
require that the City Manager, uh,participate in those interviews and there's some
reasons given, so,um, that'll be...it's in this memo and we can take up that discussion as
well at the work session. (several responding)
Dilkes/And the CPRB did get a copy of this memo, so (both talking) they will in their packet,
and so they certainly(both talking)
Salih/Uh huh.
Throgmorton/Okay, so, um, there....but there would be, ordinarily in our work sessions we
don't invite people to speak, you know, we just kind of process stuff. So would we be
doing this differently?
Cole/Haven't we done that in isolated circumstances in the past, where someone would sort of
come in (several talking)
Fruin/ ...don't see any harm, especially with a City board, uh, like this, if the chairperson or a
representative wanted to (several talking)
Throgmorton/Okay, sounds good! Okay, anything else on the 28th packet?
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Cole/I guess the only thing I would just sort of just by way of question in terms of I think it's
IP8, is that the pending work session topics? Urn, I wanna keep my eye on the ball for,
urn, the work session date for 101 Lusk. Um, we don't need to pick an exact date today,
but the staff have an approximate timeframe? I was thinkin' when we originally
proposed this, I think it was like August or September and we were sort of thinking it
would be sometime during the deep, dark winter. Um, February, where were we sort of
thinking in terms of when we'd wanna have it?
Fruin/Yeah, we just had a meeting on that a week or two ago. I think, um....I think, uh,
February would probably be a reasonable expectation.
Cole/Okay. So just if we could keep that in the general timeframe,that'd be great.
Fruin/Yeah.
Throgmorton/Okie day...dokie, anything else on the November 28th packet? All right, I'm
hearing nothing so...how bout Council updates on assigned boards, commissions, and
committees. So, Rockne, let's start with you and go to the left this time, which means
you'll be (both talking)
Council updates on assigned boards, commissions and committees:
Cole/ I was bad and did not attend my meeting,but I did have an excuse. I had an appointment
in federal court and the judge would have been mad at me so I don't have an update for
the City of Literature. Unfortunately! So don't kick me just yet!
Throgmorton/ Okay! Maz?
Salih/It was on the 27, but you know they cancel it or somehow, I don't know. That why I
didn't go (several talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/Bruce?
Teague/Nothin'!
Throgmorton/Okay. Pauline?
Taylor/Finally! (laughs) Urn, I....I went to the, uh, ECICOG,the East Central Iowa Council of
Governments meeting, uh,recently, which would technically have been my last meeting
as they do things differently next time around'll be the Board of Supervisors turn, and uh,
we after our regular meeting had a joint meeting with City of Iowa City and the Iowa
League of Cities for a, uh, legislative forum. So a number of the State legislators were
there, uh, as well as, uh, the Iowa League handed out these rulers, uh, to....
Cole/Under 2.99, right?
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of December 4, 2018.
Page 49
Taylor/Yeah, they must be. They're very cheap. Some of' em aren't even very straight. But,
uh (laughter) they said take....(several talking and laughing) ...cause they really talked
about that, that, you know, trying to maintain the Home Rule and those kinds of things
for, uh, for the cities, and a number of their, uh, legislative priorities echo what our
concerns are,uh, maintain the backfill as long as we can, uh, so that was (both talking)
Throgmorton/ So you gonna hoard those rulers?
Taylor/No, no! I'm gonna pass `em down, take...Ashley and...and Geoff, if you'd like one too
and (several talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/All right, uh.....(several talking and laughing)
Taylor/And that's all I have,thank you!
Throgmorton/Okay. Susan? (several talking) All right, wake up, everybody! Susan?
Mims/Urn, JECC, Joint Emergency Communications Center, we...we actually have to have our
budget already done (laughs) so we are meeting....this Friday? I think this Friday,this
Friday or next Friday(both talking)
Fruin/Two Fridays.
Mims/Two Fridays from now, um, we're meeting to finalize the budget and it's going up a bit,
but what I will say is when we compare ours to one of the other regional, I'll leave them
unnamed, urn, emergency communication centers of comparable size of ours, um,they're
running at about a$6 million budget and we're running about a$3-plus million budget.
So, urn, our folks out there do a fantastic job. I don't k now, I think there certainly were
some growing pains when that change was made and, you know, everybody in the
County gave up their own dispatchers and we went to that one centralized dispatch for all
9-1-1 calls, but I think it works very effectively, urn, and I think they work very
efficiently in terms of our dollars,um, and let me tell you, when I sit in these meetings,
and Tom Jones, the director, is talking about a lot of the technical stuff, it goes right over
my head, I mean various radios and systems, but we've got some very, very good people
out there, urn, and they're fun to work with, so....things are going well.
Throgmorton/(mumbled)
Teague/Nothing from me.
Throgmorton/All right, so there's nothing from the MPO?
Salih/Yeah,we were there(several talking)
Throgmorton/Did they do anything important (several talking)
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of December 4, 2018.
Page 50
Thomas/Not that I recall (laughs) (several talking and laughing)
Throgmorton/All right, so uh, I wanna tell you that the Visitors and Convention Bureau's board
meeting has been canceled for this month. Instead the board is going to be partying
(laughter) some kind of formal party for board members and also on the 13th of December
the Chamber of Commerce and the Cedar Rapids Metro Economic Alliance will launch
their regional legislative agenda and they're gonna do it in Swisher, half way I guess. So
it's their agenda, but I plan to attend. Geoff, I guess you are, no...well,Ashley? (several
talking) Simon is, okay. Well maybe we can share a ride. Or maybe not. I don't know.
Okay, that's it for me. Is there anything else, folks? Okay! I think we're done with the
work session. Thank you!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council work
session of December 4, 2018.