HomeMy WebLinkAbout2019-05-07 Transcription Page 1
Council Present: Cole, Mims, Salih,Teague,Taylor,Thomas,Throgmorton
Staff Present: Fruin, Monroe,Andrew, Dilkes, Fruehling, Bockenstedt, Fleagle,
Hightshoe, Seydell-Johnson, Ford, Byers,Whitmore, Knoche, Havel
Others Present: Wu (UISG)
Clarification of Agenda Items:
Throgmorton/ Okay, so, uh, we're gonna begin our Iowa City City Councilwork session for
Tuesday, May the 7th, 2019. The first item is clarification of agenda items. Geoff and I
talked,uh, ahead of time about the fact that we were behind on reviewing our information
packets. So we thought it'd be best to just not have any special topic but just go into the
agenda items and then into the information packets so that we can catch up. So....do you
folks have anything to say about agenda items?
7.e. Biennial Bridge Inspection and Master Plan 2019 Resolution approving,
authorizing and directing the Mayor to execute and the City Clerk to attest an
Agreement by and between the City of Iowa City and xIW, P.C. to provide
engineering consultant services for the Biennial Bridge Inspection and Master Plan
2019 Project.
Mims/7e, um,the bridge inspection. Glad to see that we're working to get kind of a master plan,
urn, in place in terms of, you know, reviewing the status of our bridges and getting that
built into our CIP maybe a little more formally than it has been in the past, so that we
don't get too far behind on the maintenance of our bridges. So wanna thank staff for
working on that.
7.f. Burlington and Madison Intersection Improvements Resolution authorizing
acceptance of STSG Funds from the Iowa Department of Transportation and
authorizing the City Manager to sign the Project Agreement for the Burlington and
Madison Intersection Improvements Project.
Mims/7f, I'll jump in if nobody else is going to. Um,just a quick question. Are we....are we
doing a median on Burlington Street?
Havel/Hello, Jason Havel, City Engineer. Uh, the plan now is to not include a median(both
talking)
Mims/ Okay.
Havel/We, uh, are looking at going with buffered bike lanes on that stretch of; um, Burlington
Street.
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Mims/ So we're decreasing the number of travel lanes for vehicles then, I'm assuming, if we're
getting buffered bike lanes in there?
Havel/ So it will....not really, I mean we'll keep the same number of travel lanes. We'll "narrow
them up. There'll be some widening that'll be done, but really it'll be more, probably half
widening and half narrowing up the existing travel lanes.
Mims/Okay, and so that includes across the bridges, across the river?
Havel/ Correct. So the bridge width, obviously, will stay the same, but (both talking)
Mims/Right(laughs) ...didn't figure we were doing that! (laughing)
Havel/Not for that price! (laughing)
Mims/Okay,just wanna clarify(both talking)
Throgmorton/Really happy to see we were able to move ahead on this. It's been a long time
actually, uh, I seem to recall talkin' about this like five years ago. So, uh, I know there've
been obstacles and....revisioning what the intersection might look like, but....I'm
optimistic it will actually get done.
Havel/Yep!
Mims/Yeah, I'm just glad to see we're not doing the median. I (both talking)
Havel/ Sure!
Mims/ ....major concern over that on Burlington Street, so....just wanna clarify. Thank you!
3. Proclamations 3.a. Bike to Work Week 3.b. International Day Against Homophobia
Transphobia and Biphobia 3.c. Kids to Park Day 3.d. National Public Works Week
3.e. Older Americans Month
Throgmorton/Well I'd like to bring up Item 3, which is proclamations. You probably noticed
that we have five proclamations. You probably recall that I have asked people to....join
in the reading of proclamations when there are....is a large number of them. Uh, I can do
the first and the last, but I wonder if anybody's interested in doing the three in between....
which are, let's see I don't remember what they are so I have to look (mumbled)
Teague/I wanna do 3...3b.
Throgmorton/3b.
Cole/I can do 3c.
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Taylor/ I'll do 3d.
7.d. Happy Hollow Park Restroom and Shelter Replacement Project 2018
Resolution accepting the work for the Happy Hollow Park Restroom and Shelter
Replacement Project 2018.
Throgmorton/Okay, so the three of you will remember(laughs) which one's you're gonna do.
Kellie, you'll make sure that they get'em? Good deal! Thank you. I have a question
about Item 7d, the Happy Hollow shelter and restroom replacement project, accepting the
work. So I, if I read correctly, the bid was basically$270,000,but it ultimately cost
basically 291,000. What I'm wondering about is why is the cost so high when the
contractor had so much trouble actually doing the work and had to rip out a bunch of
concrete? I...I don't understand how that....transpired. It seems to me it should be less
(laughs) because of that mistake.
Seydell-Johnson/Juli Seydell-Johnson, Parks and Recreation Director. Urn, large part of that is
we found there was a water line that wasn't included in the project that was (mumbled,
speaking away from mic) lead, had lead in it and had to be replaced. So that was...that
was what the additional cost was, not anything....the rework on the concrete, um,was not
our cost. And in fact the additional engineering was,urn, not our cost either, at that point.
Throgmorton/Okay. Thanks!
9.c. Daniel and Ludmila Scott: Snow Ordinance Review
Thomas/ I had some thoughts or concerns about 9c, under Correspondence, with the snow
ordinance review. Urn, you know in reading the letter of the, uh, the property owners, do
we....do we not notify either the property owner or property manager if....that's what
they seem to be claiming is that neither they nor their property manager received word
about this.
Fruin/Urn, and....and Council's requested a....a comprehensive memo on our snow operations,
and that's....that's still being compiled, so you'll get that detail. Um, we do notify the
property owner at the very outset of....of the.....so in this case our first snowfall was in
November. So if there was violations in November, the property owner gets notified and
in that notification that we tell....we tell them in order for us to take care of this in a
timely manner, you will not be notified any more. We'll still tag the property, but we
won't necessarily provide you that notice any more. You know in this case they don't...
they don't live in Iowa City for us to notify them and give them the opportunity to,um
(clears throat) uh....uh, fix the problem. You may be talkin' five, six, seven days before
the sidewalk then gets cleared. So they do get notice,but it's only once per snow season.
After that, we just follow up with tagging the property.
Throgmorton/I didn't read the letter really carefully,but it seemed to me that they had some
pretty reasonable suggestions, uh, for....that should be taken into account when we're
reconsidering our current snow ordinance(both talking)
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Fruin/Yeah, I think as we....as we transition into our updated software package,urn, we will
have a better ability to allow people to register email addresses and so that we can get 'em
electronic notification,um,we're pretty limited with our circa 1970, 80s software right
now on....on what we can do, which is part of the problem,but yes, I think we can
improve on the notification process without sacrificing time. We're....we struggle to
accomplish that through our technology that we have right now.
Thomas/That sounds like it would do it then.
Taylor/Yeah, I had some concerns about that too, cause it racked up quite a bill for them and
then the legal fees, etc., so I look forward to talking,when you get the comp...uh, the
plan, we can talk about it some more.
Fruin/Should....you should have that in the next week or two.
Mims/What about the software, I mean when you talked about being able to do this more
efficiently with newer software, what's our timeframe on....software?
Fruin/We've begun the implementation process. I think it's about 12-month process, and we're
maybe a month in. Oh,Tracy's here! I didn't see ya sneak in! Come on up,Tracy!
Hightshoe/We've been told it's about an 18-month process from when they start. So next week
we kick it off with a meeting with InnerGov. So...it won't be immediate, so we're lookin',
like I said, in a year and a half,but I don't know what modules will go live. We don't
know when that will hit, so it might be before the 18 months, depending on which
modules,urn,become active.
Fruin/We can....we have debriefed a little bit on the sidewalk issue,because there's been
several, uh, it was a tough...it was a tough winter on sidewalks, as you know, so, um, I
think there are some interim steps we can take to improve notification. They're not gonna
be as seamless as where we wanna end up,but we'll present those in the memo.
Mims/Thank you!
9.a. Preston Moore, Iowa State Director, State Affairs - Humane Society of the US:
Petland presentation
Cole/I guess I wanted to bring up Item 9a. We had previously talked about, uh,the issue related
to, urn, "puppy mills," and the relation to that people have brought up Petland. Is Council
then not wanting to do any further fact-finding on this issue? I seemed to recall that I had
talked about the concept of potentially a memo or a future work session. Am I alone on
sayin'that I would like to have additional fact-finding or further exploration, at the very
least, in terms of what,um,you know reach out some of our colleagues in Cedar Rapids
and sort of see what their thought process was behind their particular ordinance,um, or
not. I mean obviously we have to have Council support to move forward on it. Urn,my
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view of this issue,um, is that, for lack of a better term, sort of a rebuttal by Mr. Moore to
the,urn, presentation by the owner of Petland. I think both of them bring up some very
compelling points. Uh, I would at least like to further explore this issue, it's certainly a
complicated issue, and um, various businesses have made substantial investments, urn,
but I would also like to look at it in more detail, but are....are we not getting support for
that or...or, where are the rest of you feeling on that?
Mims/ I thought this was a very compelling letter, and very concerning letter.
Cole/Yeah.
Mims/In terms of kind of...different perspective, uh, direct conflict in terms of,uh, what he felt
was happening versus what was presented to us before. Um, I would be interested, but I
really don't wanna put this on staff. So I....
Cole/So if we were to maybe just get feedback from whoever the counterpart would be at Cedar
Rapids, to at least see what got them to their point, or....or what are people feel like
would be the least staff-intensive way forward to at least further explore this issue, if
there's interest on that? What's your thought on that, Susan?
Mims/Are you going to say something, Jim? Go ahead!
Throgmorton/My own personal feeling is that we have plenty to do, and I....I don't wanna get
distracted. I think we need to keep our eye on the ball and focus on the major things we
have to take care of. So....so....if.....if you wanna follow up on it, or if a couple Council
Members wanna look into it a little bit more, and then get back to us, I think that'd be
fine, and I can see reaching out to the Petland owner and asking him to respond to (both
talking)
Cole/Okay!
Throgmorton/ ....to the rhetoric, you know, and, uh....
Thomas/The other....the other thought I was having was if, um....cause this is really not an area
that I have any understanding of what's....what's going on here, other than what we heard
in the correspondence. Uh, I would be interested if....if, uh, you know, our staff at the
Animal Care&Adoption Center might have some perspective on this matter. Urn....
Salih/That was I said last time. I guess if we....if the City Manager interesting to ask the
Animal Control to look into it and just give us like a feedback on that.
Taylor/Well I would be willing to work with you, Rockne, on that, as far as contacting Cedar
Rapids or....
Cole/Okay! So I would support both John's proposal, assuming it's not too time-intensive for
staff, urn,just to be able to get that first blush impression and then Pauline and I can just
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reach out for fact-finding,just to see if they'll share some of the memos, indicate that
Council has not really expressed a preference either way, um, but we would just like to
get additional information, and I'd certainly be happy to reach out to the Petland owner,
cause I think we all don't wanna just pass a policy to pass a policy. We wanna make sure
that we're getting accurate information, urn, that we can, so that we're looking at this
issue carefully. So I think that should be relatively straightforward. Okay, so we'll follow
up on that.
9.f. Cindy Parsons - Project Green 2018 Annual Report and cover letter
Throgmorton/ Sounds okay to me. (several talking in background) Does anybody wanna praise
Project GREEN? Item 9f. I wanna just....inviting somebody to do that because (both
talking)
Thomas/ ...pretty impressive when you see their report, you know, the effort that goes into,urn,
maintaining, you know(laughs) I always remember when I worked with Project GREEN
on the landscape improvements at North Market Square and....you know, they....they
really emphasize think small because the maintenance that's required when you venture
into...into this realm can be challenging, and that's certainly reflected (laughs) in the
report.
Taylor/I....I loved their report and....and the photos, cause I wasn't even aware of some of the
projects that they take a part in, like the greenery along Highway 6. I had no idea that
they were a part of that.
Throgmorton/They make several specific recommendations. Am....am I correct in assuming
that they have been in contact with the staff and staff is aware of their specific
recommendations and, etc.?
Seydell-Johnson/Juli Seydell-Johnson again, Director of Parks and Recreation. Our staff meets
regularly with Project GREEN, um, and has discussions about the work they do and other
work that they'd like to see done throughout all of our areas. So it's really a part...a really
good partnership between the two groups.
Throgmorton/Great. Thanks!
9.g. Gloria Dei Lutheran Church-In response to 4-18-19 memo
Teague/9g, Gloria Dei. They wrote...um....about the....make sure....Sanxay-Gilmore House,
109 E. Market Street. And I guess (mumbled) urn, of course they do show support for the
historic preservation of the home,um,but they also did point out that their commitment
of$50,000 to move the site, um, if I read this correctly, they're not gonna be supportive if
we move it to the parkin' lot across the street. So,just wanted to point that out. I don't
know that we need to have much discussion because we have a little time with the
University,but I did just wanna point that out.
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Cole/The options there don't seem....any of'em seem to be very good. It seems, in terms of
cost, but certainly we'll get more information on that.
•
Throgmorton/Have they been copied, Geoff, on our cost estimate memos?
Fruin/Yes.
Throgmorton/Thought so! So they did not refer to those costs at all in their letter, uh, which
bothers me, frankly, cause it's like saying, okay, urn....if you move it across the street to
that parking lot, that's not gonna make us happy and we're not gonna contribute$50,000,
and....I think there's many....another major step is implied in their memo. So.....if
they're fully conscious of the cost of the alternatives that we have, and nothing else
changes, uh, fairly uncomfortable decision's gonna have to be made two or three years
from now.
Wu/I guess, uh, I'm wondering what is the....the last, I guess,public article in the Press-Citizen
mentioned the house potentially being moved to that courtyard that's owned by Hodge,
by the Newman Center.
Throgmorton/Yeah we already....we already decided not to do that, because it undermines the,
uh, Jefferson Street Historic Preservation District, uh, and uh, un....undermines that
particular, uh, courtyard, which is a major feature of the district.
Wu/And....I have one more question, um....what, is there....well I guess any plans for any
future like interaction through the University regarding....future expansion of the
campus. Um, on that block they're already slated to demolish two more homes for, urn,
an entrepreneurship center that's now set to be located across the river anyways so...I
guess is there any action the City could take to prevent further demolition just so then...
things could be replaced with grass?
Throgmorton/Well, as Geoff knows, uh, and maybe you wanna elaborate a little bit, Geoff,
we've had conversations with the President and staff at the University about their
tentative plans,uh, in relation to the Sanxay-Gilmore House and in relation to that sort of
stretch of Clinton Street,but their plans are pretty preliminary and I don't think I'm at
liberty to state any more about what I know. Geoff, do you want to elaborate?
Fruin/No, I think, uh, what they've communicated to us is they're gonna tear down the buildings,
which are viewed as a, I think a liability to the University. They've been vacant otherwise
and....and create some, uh,temporary green space. Uh, they have not made any
decisions on campus, on what possible uses may go there and that's part of why we have
that three to five years,because they think it's about that timeframe before they will make
decisions on....on what might be appropriate at that location. So we'll.... University's
been very good about, uh....um, bringin' us into those discussions at the right times and
we expect that'll continue.
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Throgmorton/To turn it around,Austin, congratulation incidentally on your new position. It's
very exciting! (laughs)
Cole/(mumbled)
Throgmorton/Yeah! Urn, I wonder if UISG has had conversations with the President and his
staff about the University's intentions for that area.
Wu/Some to, uh, in my opinion they've actually been somewhat dismissive. Uh, I've just
personally seen a trend where they like to buy up buildings and then plan to turn them
into green space. So i.e.just grass, urn, as they've attempt to do with Old Brick let's say
in the 1970s. So I guess I'm just skeptical about maybe their intentions, especially when
these buildings could have been....(mumbled) missing middle we've been looking for.
11.a. Rezoning South of Interstate 80,West of N. Dubuque Street, and East of
Mackinaw Drive, commonly referred to as Forest View Ordinance conditionally
rezoning approximately 73.15 acres of property located south of Interstate-80,west
of N. Dubuque Street, and north of Foster Road, from Interim Development Single-
Family Residential (ID-RS), Low Density Single-Family Residential (RS-5), Low
Density Multi-Family Residential (RM-12), and High Density Single-Family
Residential with a Planned Development Overlay(OPD/RS-12) to OPD/RS-12 for
50.82 acres, Highway Commercial with a Planned Development Overlay (OPD/CH-
1) for 20.45 acres, and Neighborhood Public with a Planned Development Overlay
(OPD/P-1) for 1.88 acres. (REZ18-00013)
Throgmorton/Well I'd urge UISG to reach out to the President and then who knows what
happens. Other items? On the agenda? I....I guess I'll ask a couple questions, which I
think(laughs) I know the answer to with regard to Item 11, uh, 11 a in particular, Forest
View. Uh,have we received any more petitions that raise, uh, that to the threshold
required for a super majority? Okay, and....uh, has the, uh, conditional zoning agreement
been signed? Yeah. Okay. So we're kinda set to make a decision tonight. Uh, assuming
a, well, I won't go any....I won't say any more. Any other things, items on the agenda?
Item 12, water and stone water utility rates.
12. Utility Rate Ordinance Ordinance amending title 3, entitled "finances, taxation and
fees," chapter 4, entitled "schedule of fees, rates, charges, bonds,fines and
penalties" of the city code to increase water service charges and storm water service
charges. (Second Consideration)
Throgmorton/I...I don't have any objection to the rate increases, but....uh, Procter and Gamble
was by far the largest consumer of water,uh, from our water utility system. Uh,but I
don't recall seeing a listing of the top water consumers. I'm sure we have seen it,but I
just (laughs) don't remember it.
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Fruin/ It's included in the annual budget. At the very end of your budget we have some, uh, a
statistical section. Uh, I can get ya the....the page number, but urn, we'll list property tax
payers, water users, sewer users, and we do a top 10.
Throgmorton/Maybe it could just be shared with us, uh, next time around, when we do the
second reading.
Fruin/Sure!
Thomas/It was in the presentation, I recall. That Dennis made.
13. Moratorium on rental permits Ordinance amending Title 17 of the City Code
(Building and Housing) to establish a moratorium until March 7, 2020 on the
issuance of new rental permits for single-family and duplex units in RS-5, RS-8 and
RNS-12 zones within certain rental permit districts in the Rental Impact Area
shown in Figure 17-1 of the City Code. (Second consideration)
Throgmorton/Yeah. Great! With regard to Item 13, the rental cap moratorium. There have been
some, uh, informal discussion about possibly collapsing the second and third readings. I
don't know if anybody on the Council wants to do that and the staff has not recommended
that we do that. Uh, does anybody want to....say anything along those lines?
Salih/I....if the....if the developer ask for it I will. (several talking) Oh, for the (mumbled)?
Yes, I can do that. (several talking)
Throgmorton/I'm just wonderin' if y'all wanna do that. I'm not sayin'let's do it, and it's not
being recommended by the staff(both talking)
Cole/ ...talked about getting the additional feedback, um, normally when there's a controversial
issue, we don't do that, so we can solicit maximum feedback. I think certainly probably
that would be prudent, but on the other hand....unless people are feeling a little bit
reluctant. I'd sort of like to get it over with so we can move on to policy,um, direction,
and hopefully emphasize them tonight that we can channel all of their energy hopefully
into working with staff and other community members for a solution. Um....so I think I
probably would support collapsing it. Even though that's the exception to the general rule
(both talking)
Throgmorton/So...I'm....maybe I should....maybe I should have prefaced this a little bit. I
personally don't think it's a good idea to collapse the readings. I just know there had been
some discussion about possibly doing that. I don't think it's a good idea, for me
personally,because I said in the last meeting that they would have...May the 7th and May
the 21st to be able to express their views. So I....I personally would not want to go back
on that, uh....commitment to the public.
Salih/I thought the staff is requesting it. If the staff is not requesting it why should we do it?
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Thomas/Well I think it would be if we were seeing a surge in permit applications would be the
reason and I don't know whatwhat's happening.
Salih/I think just give a chance to the people who come and talk about it, because(unable to
understand) because the staff is doing it. I was completely off.
Froin/Tracy, you wanna come up and just mention the number of permits that we've received.
Hightshoe/ Seven (both talking)
Throgmorton/ Sony?
Hightshoe/Seven.
Salih/And...and this is....what gonna happen, like for those seven? Because we did that. After
we vote(both talking)
Hightshoe/We'll process 'em as....as we typically do, I mean we'll submit inspections and if they
get the inspection and pay the rental permit, then they would....they would get a rental
permit.
Fruin/ It's a tiny window. Our inspections are a couple weeks out, um, so you come in to apply,
it'll be a couple weeks before we go out and....inspect your property, but if it all looks
good you could still....there there will be people that get rental permits.
Mims/So it's not based on the date of the application? It's based on getting all the pieces
completed.
Dilkes/I think if they have their initial inspection...they'll get their....and there are not any huge
issues, they'll get their permit.
Salih/And those are completely new rental permit or they have....(both talking)
Hightshoe/ If you have an existing rental permit, we're renewing.
Salih/Yes!
Hightshoe/Yes, that's not(both talking)
Dilkes/These are permits, as I understand it, that are currently in capped areas. Correct?
(several responding)
Taylor/And did you see seven as an exceptionally large number then or sort of average?
Hightshoe/I think we'll continue to get more over time. I....I just don't know the number.
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Thomas/Are they spread around or are they....
Hightshoe/That I don't know. I can confirm but I don't have it with me.
Throgmorton/Well, another factor that I've thought about is that because we took first
consideration last Wednesday, and now we're having second consideration, if we
collapsed'em that would give people really only like five days or whatever, some....some
really minimal amount of time,to even be aware of and then respond to the proposal. So
(several talking) I don't think it's a good idea to collapse.
Salih/Yeah(mumbled)
Throgmorton/All right. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure the Council was onboard. Okay.
Anything else in the agenda packet? Cause if not we can move to the April 4th packet.
Information Packet Discussion(April 4,April 11,April 18,April 25,May 2):
Throgmorton/Just to get things rolling I'll mention one thing. Item 3, the Race Place and Land
Use, Minneapolis 2040 Plan. I was unable to attend that,uh,but I was very curious about
it and really wanted to be there, and I wonder if anybody can sort of summarize, give us a
very brief synopsis of how that went.
Fruin/It was a very good event. We had five or six staff members there, I believe. Um....I wish
there was...I wish the room was a little bit more crowded. Uh, it was a fairly light crowd,
but(both talking) It was in the IMU and there were several competing,urn, e...events
going on that evening. Uh, it was....it was, uh, I think it was very informational. It's...
it's very inspiring what Minneapolis is looking to do. Uh,they have a different set
of....of laws up there. Their...their comp plan, I learned that night that their comp plan
does,urn,have the force of law behind it. So it's....it's not like our comp plan,that
depends on the next round of zoning. They do...they will do that next round of zoning,
but that comp plan after it gets adopted at the local and then at the regional level, it
becomes the....it becomes the law of the land. Urn,they've been getting a lot of credit
for eliminating single-family zoning,uh, in other words what they are,uh, moving
towards is a by-right provision where you can build duplexes or triplexes in....in any
zone. So typical subdivision,uh,you know, for example we only allow duplexes on the
corner,urn, in certain zones. Minneapolis is moving to a model where you can do
duplexes and triplexes,um,of....of a,you know, certain scale and form. It's more of a
form-based approach. Um, and uh,trying to integrate those into their neighborhoods.
There's a lot of,um,reason behind that,but they really spent a whole lot of time talking
about the history of Minneapolis and how racial covenants,uh, shaped that city and
shaped the demographics of that city,and....and what they're trying to do is acknowledge
that as a community and....and start to unwind the damage, uh,that that caused over 50,
60 years,when....when that was prevalent. So I think we can learn a lot,uh, from them,
from what they've done and....and where they're going. There was some interesting kind
of tangents you can,um, you can go down:,Urn, one of the things that they're seein'now
is a surge in historic district applications from neighborhoods that are not receptive to
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these new set of rules. They're suddenly eager to,uh,protect themselves through historic,
uh....uh, designations. So that's, you know, you never know where these new policies
will take you and it was interesting to hear,uh, the....the planners speak about, uh...uh,
some of those issues. I do have the slides. So there was two PowerPoints. So if
anybody's interested,urn, let me know and I'll send you the slides.
Thomas/I would....I would be interested in seeing that.
Throgmorton/So am I,hopefully right, in thinking that Iowa City never had, um.....you said
restrictive(both talking)
Fruin/Racial covenants.
Throgmorton/Racial covenant built into our zoning code.
Fruin/I....I would think you're right,when it comes to the zoning code, but I'm sure there was
probably racial covenants used in the community. (several talking)
Dilkes/They'll turn up in abstracts.
Throgmorton/For private contracts,right? Yeah(both talking) Yeah. (both talking) ...was not
alone.
Wu/I'm aware that African Americans and,urn,possibly Jewish people were prohibited from
living in,uh, on-campus housing in the dorms until fairly well into the 20th century.
Throgmorton/Sure. Okay, any....anything else on the April 4th packet? Uh, assuming there's
not,let's go to the April 11 packet.
Mims/Just glad to see the information, IP4 and 5, on the Census,uh, getting information out
there. I just encourage the public to, you k now, stay informed in terms of participating
when that gets here,but also people start thinking about that who might,uh,look at it as
job opportunities too during that process, cause we're gonna need a lot of people to help
with that. So,Ashley's kinda directing that.
Monroe/I'll just note that,uh, yes they're now searching for people interested in a job with the
Census,uh,the concentration is going to be for next spring and summer, so during that
time period. They're looking at,um,hiring well over a thousand people in our area. So
there's a lot of need, uh if anybody has time and interest to...to apply with the Census.
Throgmorton/That could be a challenge with the unemployment rate,right? (laughter) Maybe
we could all volunteer. So,Ashley, last I knew, you were havin'trouble,uh, establishing
good contacts with the University with regard to collaboration on this, for students and so
on. Where's that stand?
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Monroe/Well one of the recent additions we have to our complete count committee is, uh, a
member of the University staff. So the, above all the communications, uh, team
(mumbled) Haley has joined us and that should go a long way in terms of working
through....the communication channels available to the University, but we're still
working on, urn, trying to connect with our housing bureaus and....and all those things.
So we'll continue to work on that, probably through Haley and a couple of others.
Throgmorton/You're not feeling pessimistic I take it.
Monroe/No, the group is really positive and active and have been making a lot of, urn, a lot of
strides so far. It's early in the process but, um, they're really bonding together and kind of
getting out there and doin' work on their own. So it's....it's been positive. Urn, we've had
nice cooperation with our....our neighboring communities too.
Throgmorton/Good! Anything else in the April 11th packet? All right, how bout April 18?
Cole/One topic that I was about to bring up,just before we all got very tired last,uh,Tuesday, or
a couple weeks ago, was this question of 1P8, uh, relating to where the City of Iowa City
is with our mobile home parks. As everyone's heard, uh, there have been a lot of
purchases of mobile home parks, some within the city limits, some outside the city limits,
um, in our region as a whole and it really occurred to me that, um, municipalities could
have a key role,um, in terms of addressing a favorable policy solution. Um, now what
shape that would end up taking I think is why we should explore convening a task force,
um, or at least have a work session as to what we'd like to see the City do in this regard.
Urn, these are overwhelming forces that some of our residents, our local residents, are
experiencing, as well as residents, um, in frankly in the region as a whole. Urn, I think
we have a unique moment at this time with where we have the relationship with the
Johnson County Board of Supervisors, some new leadership on the North Liberty City
Council, um, City of Coralville, I think we made a whole lot of progress with, urn,but we
really need to make sure that we're not too reactive, urn, in terms of policy solutions and
so, um, I just wanted to gauge what interest there was on Council and I believe Maz is
supportive of this as well, and have a work session to sort of see where we'd need to go.
Um, now in terms of what sort of ad hoc committee would look like, I think there's sort
of a couple models that potentially,um, we could use. One would be like the Ad Hoc
Diversity Committee(mumbled) we did that Kingsley Botchway convened, or the
committee that we had on Riverfront Crossings. Obviously we don't have to decide that
tonight, uln, but I just think it would be good for us to further explore,um, what role, uh,
the City could have, if any, related to this mobile home issue. The other piece of it is is
about seven years ago some very good work was done, um,by the UI Legal Clinic and
some affordable housing advocates related to City policy. So certainly it would need
some updating,urn,but a lot of heavy lifting has already been done. It was done about
seven years ago. Um....so what do people think about that?
Throgmorton/I'm not sure what specifically you're referring to right there with regards to seven
years ago.
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Cole/Urn, the UI Clinic, Charlie could maybe help me. Lynn Sandler and some other, urn,
affordable housing advocates had done a pretty in-depth study of mobile homes, urn, and
mobile home policy. I could certainly share that with you. Urn, and I had attached a,
essentially a PowerPoint, uh, with regards to policies throughout the United States. Uh,
that was a result of that particular committee. So again,that....that committee now is
spread far and wide. Some of them are law students,but some I think heavy lifting was
done. We'd obviously have to update that, urn, but I think it is a critical issue that we
need to really be proactive on, urn, because obviously whatever role the City wold play,
we'd have to have other partners, counter parties that'd be willing to work with the City in
terms of making that happen,but the goal would be to get policy solutions in place so that
when the crisis hits....we're more able to respond with sort of a pre-set approach, as
opposed to sort of reacting in sort of the spur of the moment and it's hard to make good
policy that way. Um, so does anybody have any interest in further exploration of this?
Taylor/When you mentioned partners (both talking)
Dilkes/What I'm...I'm sorry! What I'm recalling is....is a.....a lot of conversation. I know Legal
Aid has been involved in these conversations and maybe,urn, the Clinic as well about
changes that need to be made to the State law to give, um, mobile home tenants more
rights.
Taylor/That's what I'm recalling also, Eleanor, cause I know the County had concern about a
mobile home that's in the county and not in the city, but their hands were kinda tied
because of State laws and any sort of regulations they didn't have any control over, but I
think when you're talking about partners, Rockne, uh, the Johnson County Affordable
Housing Coalition,uh, I attended their forum, uh, they called it "Tomorrow, the Fight for
Mobile Homes" and the room was full of concerned citizens. I'm not sure if you attended
that or not, but uh,many of those folks, and Sara can attest to this too,uh, offered
insights and possible strategies for this. So I think they would be a key partner and would
know some contact people that, you know, if we wanted to pursue it further we could.
Salih/This is really good idea to create a committee, uh, from like Council Members and some
community members, especially according to Sara Barron, Executive Director Affordable
Housing Coalition, she said like many members of the Affordable Housing... Johnson
County Affordable Housing Cor....Coalition are interesting in helping this and do
researches and studies, uh, if we can just create that committee and we start from there, if
you don't wanna make it like a work session. We can just go ahead and create the
committee and we go from there, and after this committee studies and they come out with
something, they can bring it to us and after that you can decide!
Mims/And/or.....Sara's sitting out there, but what about the Affordable Housing Coalition taking
lead on this and we agree to have one or two Council Members (several talking) part of
that and hopefully they can also get members from the other local city councils and
(several talking) Supervisors (several talking)
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Cole/I would be fine with that if we wanna do that right now. I just didn't know if we wanted to
do a....not that I love work sessions, but a sep....but if you're....if everyone's ready to go
right now, I would love to have Sara get started on it and.....but I didn't know if we
wanted to have it separate to see what that would look like or not. I don't (both talking)
Mims/I think there's a lot that has to be looked at in terms of(both talking) of what we can do,
because like Eleanor was saying, I mean,there's so many State laws that.....preclude a
certain thing, precuc....preclude us from doing a lot of things.
Cole/Yes!
Mims/ So it's looking at other kinds of approaches or policies that we might be interested in
conjunction with other areas, um, that are not gonna be in violation of State law. So I
would say let's let the Affordable Housing Coalition take the lead and let's agree to have a
couple people from the Council, if they can get a group together, that we would be a part
of that.
Salih/(both talking) that's what they gonna bring, you know, the studies and they will find out
what the law says. Yeah, everything that we want and after that they can come and
present to us.
Throgmorton/I think that's a pretty good idea,partly because several of the affected mobile....
trailer courts are not in Iowa City.
Mims/Right.
Salih/Uh huh.
Throgmorton/ So...are there any in Iowa City? Not to my knowledge(several talking) Sorry?
Taylor/ ...in Iowa City, but he's not(several talking)
Cole/He's not, but I'm just....that is one that is in.
Throgmorton/Oh, sure!
Cole/Yeah.
Throgmorton/But it's not directly affected yet.
Cole/Yes! (several talking) And there's obviously the one on the east side that's not inside the
city limits,but possibly may be next.
Salih/The problem is this developer is intentionally buying all the mobile homes. You never
know, tomorrow maybe gonna be one in Iowa City. That's why we can be just ready.
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Cole/Yep!
Throgmorton/Okay. So, uh, I think I hear a clear desire on the part of the Council to have two
people assigned to work with the Affordable Housing Coalition, in an effort to develop
tactics (laughs) and strategies that, uh, will....either avoid or minimize harm associated
with these kind of takeovers. Urn......we can either (mumbled) find out right now if there
are two people who would like to serve, or we could defer that to our next meeting and
make that decision (mumbled) next meeting.
Salih/ (mumbled) we can just....I'm interesting on doing that(both talking) if somebody als...like
more people want to, maybe I can give the chance to somebody else.
Throgmorton/Okay, who's interested (mumbled) Rockne? Are you...
Cole/Pauline, would...I mean anyone else want to (several talking)
Taylor/ ...having lived in a mobile homes for over 25 years in a previous part of my life, I would
be interested.
Cole/Okay! Pauline and Maz, that'd be fine! (several talking)
Throgmorton/Okay! Pauline and Maz. All right. Any other items in that packet?
Cole/(mumbled) IP7, um, I seem to be the advocate for the four-legged furry ones tonight, but
urn, and maybe we would like to use a similar approach to what we've done with the Pe
....Petland, but a little bit of background on IP7. Um,this is a request that I've received
from community members for an at-large cat ordinance. That was recently passed by the
City of Des Moines, um, and without getting into all the details,urn, I'm understanding
that one of the big issues associated with,urn, population control of some stray cats is
that people are not willing to turn them in, out of fear that they....the staff does not have
the discretion, uh, to fix and release. Urn, so what Des Moines has done is done a, uh,
'catch, fix, and release,' while at the....and then clip their ear, uh, while at the same time
giving staff discretion to, urn, if they need to....to put animals to sleep. Uh,we've
received a lot of feedback on this issue,just individually. Urn, staff time's obviously a
premium, understand that, but is there any exploration, either for further exploration of
this as an issue or me taking the lead to get more feedback from this particular
organization (mumbled) as an issue, um, but I....I think it'd be nice to give, cause I
understand it right now, the staff does not have the discretionary authority to fix and
release, is my understanding, unless I'm incorrect on that.
Fruin/Chris, do you wanna come forward? This is Chris Whitmore. She is, um, Director of our
Animal Services operation.
Throgmorton/Hi, Chris!
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Whitmore/Hi! Yes, uh, we have...when animals are brought into our shelter right now, even if
they have an ear tip already, that indicates if they've been spayed or neutered, we have no
authority to release them back where they came from. TNR, or trap, neuter and return,
uh, would allow us to be able to do that. We wouldn't have to euthanize a cat just because
somebody caught it. Normally it's people that are catching the cat, not that it's a nuisance
but they don't understand that it's a community cat and that it's....usually there's
somebody already feeding it and they're worried that it's getting cold. Um, usually those
things are already provided by caretakers, urn, so I would love to have something that we
could do, uh, trap, neuter and return.
Taylor/Most people know I'm a cat person and when I first heard about this,uh, I wasn't in favor
of it, uh,but then when I'd seen some letters and folks that had community cats that had
been trapped and sent to the shelter, but had to be euthanized because they weren't
socialized. They...their ear had been clipped, but they couldn't be released,because we
didn't have the ordinance. So, uh, I...I would be in favor of....of looking into it.
Mims/Do you have any idea, Chris, what kind of a population we have of community cats?
Whitmore/Well, it's definitely better because of....Johnson County Humane Society's been kind
of doing this under the radar, um, and so the population has gone down quite a bit,just
from what they're check, uh, areas that has been (mumbled) population out of control.
Urn, lot of the mobile home parks, um, unfortunately and there are some people that are
doing trapping and releasing back in that, those areas. Um, and so we're not euthanizing
as many as we used to, um,just for the fact that a lot of times these people are going to
Iowa Humane Alliance, who does....they do a low-cost spay and neuter, and then they
just release them on their own, um, and ri...but unfortunately when we get those cats in at
the shelter after they're caught again, if they have the ear notch, if we can't find a barn
home for them to go, we have no....we can't legally say, well, you can just let it go where
it came from. Um, so, um....I definitely think that our....our population on feral cats is
down. I've been in this line of work for 25 years and we used to euthanize hundreds of
cats a year, where we definitely doin' a lot better job at that now.
Cole/And you would still retain, if....if, you know, we explore this Des Moines' concept, the
authority to euthanize if(both talking)
Whitmore/Yes.
Cole/ ....there was a spike in population (both talking)
Whitmore/Yes! Exactly!
Cole/ ....okay.
Whitmore/Yeah, in fact a lot of times if it's a nuisance cat and we give'em deterrents and ideas
to try to keep them becomin' a nuisance to that property owner, um, they can bring it in to
us. That's how the ordinance reads in Des Moines and I'm definitely in favor of that. If
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it's a nuisance animal and it's causing your cat in your house to cause problems or you
just can't seem to keep 'em off your property, um, you can always bring him in to us.
Even if it has an ear notch.
Mims/What's your thoughts on, I mean a lot of people don't like the idea of the cats running
loose at all because of the bird population (several talking) killing song birds and stuff,
and so that's....(several talking) I find myself(both talking)
Cole/ ...one of my advocate friends had said that there has been some pushback. So it is a
legitimate issue(several talking)
Whitmore/ ...in fact, 10 years ago I was kind of on that. I was like I don't think that's a good idea
to trap, neuter and return, but there's so much information out there now that shows that it
does work. The funneling effect of stray cats don't become an issue and so if some...the
caretakers are feeding them, it doesn't....they're not killing all the wildlife, and then the
spade and neutering is a big thing too. Urn....they get kinda lazy, and so they don't
wanna do a lot of(laughter)
Cole/Sounds like my cats! (laughs)
Whitmore/So it's a win-win for everyone. It doesn't cost us anything, as far as the shelter
because, uh, they're going to IHA, gettin' spayed or neutered, and we're not havin' to
euthanize cats that are very healthy otherwise.
Mims/ Okay.
Throgmorton/I thought at least one of the emails or letters that at least I've seen was strongly
opposed to trap, neutering.
Whitmore/I read that.
Throgmorton/Yeah, so (several talking) so do you have any quick response to (both talking)
Whitmore/I think a lot of it is just education. I think that gentleman, I think the letter I read, if
it's the same one, he did this job 30 years ago and I think a lot of things have changed
since then, and we've educated, uh, shelters, the community to know that it does work.
Uh, other communities, like in San Antonio, uh, Washington, D.C.'s doin' a big study on
it right now, sayin'that it does work, it does eliminate the cats eventually, uh, eventually
they don't....when they're not reproducing, they just end up dying, urn, by old age,
hopefully, or you know somethin' else that happens to them and then you're not having
the repeated part of it, and um, I think just educating the public and I've done a lot of
research to tell my staff to go.....this is the things that you need to tell them. This is why
it's a good thing.
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Mims/What would you do if we approved something like this and somebody catches a cat,
brings it in,urn,it's got a notch,but you don't necessarily know where that community cat
belongs, how do you decide where to release it or(both talking)
Whitmore/I think what the....what we've done in the past,which I think would work here, is
wherever they live-trap that cat, that's where it would go back to. Unless, like we said,
it's a nuisance cat and they were trappin' it because it was causin'them some kind of
hardship or somethin'that they couldn't keep the cat away from their litter bo...or their
sand box or whatever, urn, then, uh, but ideally.....and a lot of times, you know,they'll
say, oh, I can just let it...if we pass this ordinance, they'd say, oh I can just take it back
and let it go, and then once we spay and neuter it,they're fine with it.
Mims/Okay.
Whitmore/Lot of times people have a problem with cats because they're doing their wallering,
they're....cause they're trying to breed and so lot of times the noise nuisance from a stray
cat is....is gone once you spay and neuter it. I definitely think it's something to look into!
Taylor/Is there some way you can get us maybe some data on the number of calls for nuisance
cats? (both talking) ...by the Police Department(both talking)
Whitmore/Yep!
Taylor/ ...thank you.
Whitmore/Absolutely!
Teague/And I'm assumin'no one can...euthanize a cat on their own if it's on their property and is
considered to be a nuisance(both talking)
Whitmore/Well, I mean ideally they're not supposed to. They're supposed to bring all stray
animals to us and then we try to locate an owner on that cat. Urn, if it has an ear notch,
uh,if it had a microchip we'd try to locate their owner, and that'd be the distinction
between a cat owner and a cat caretaker, cause they're....community cats are different
than somebody's pet. Urn, so we definitely would keep that a distinction for sure.
Teague/Is it against the law? For them to do that?
Whitmore/Well, I think...if the veterinarian didn't ask'em where they got the cat and why they're
euthanizin'it,the veterinarian could euthanize it if they'd said, you know, this is my cat.
Um, so I think that's definitely(both talking)
Teague/But can they do it themselves (both talking)
Whitmore/No! It has to be done by a licensed veterinarian.
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Teague/Okay.
Whitmore/At least in the city.
Teague/Okay.
Throgmorton/So I don't wanna jump the gun here, but I think I'm hearing support for pursuing
this TNR.....
Thomas/ Sounds pretty good.
Throgmorton/...approach,but I, you know, some work has to be done before(both talking)into
it.
Cole/ ...plenty of time to present objections,if need be.
Throgmorton/Geoff?
Fruin/Did you want us to frame up the issue along with the....the dog issue in a....in just a cats
and dog memo (laughter and several talking in background)um....before you see the
ordinance? (several responding) Okay, we'll....we'll give you some more data. We'll
include a recommendation in there,then you can work through that. One of the things I
wanna explore with...with Chris is our Animal Services operation is regional in nature,
and I just wanna talk through that,uh, how we have to engage the other communities and
if those other communities don't have this policy....
Whitmore/ ...especially like Coralville, for sure.
Fruin/Exactly. How...how does that,how do we manage that(both talking)
Whitmore/I know. Their officers looking at our approach and thinkin'that that'll be something
they're....I know the City of North Liberty is looking at it as well. In fact I'm not even
sure,they might have passed it already. Urn, so it's definitely...it's leaning that way and I
think people are disappointed to find out what's goin' on.
Fruin/We'll have some of those discussions and then return to ya. (several responding)
Throgmorton/Good. Thank you, Chris!
Whitmore/ Sure!
Throgmorton/All right, any other items for the April 18th packet? Like maybe IP#9, the
employee....employment status analysis.
Fruin/Yeah, we....we'd like to cover that if you're ready. I'll have Ashley give a quick overview
and then we'll,um,be available to answer questions.
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Monroe/Okay! So,urn,we presented this memo,uh, as a....as an analysis for your
consideration. Uh, at the January 5th budget review session, there were a couple of
questions asked about,uh, exploring providing benefits to temporary employees and, um,
at the time we needed to provide Council with more information. So we went back,we
did a short,urn, cost analysis for positions that we felt were most likely to fall within
the....the range of being converted from hourly positions temporary to a permanent, uh,
benefited position, and so that....that meeting prior to the budget being passed, urn,we
were also directed to....to take more time to present Council with a, uh,broader analysis.
There was little time before the budget needed to be passed, and so,urn,the majority of
Council Members wanted to see just more information about what this could mean. Urn,
so we were planning to,uh,work through that analysis all at once and provide you with
that information prior to August this year. That's when we start our budget process and
planning process to give you all the, urn, costs and benefits and other planning
information, and it turns out that there's a vacancy,uh, in one of the part-time positions
that was considered. So currently Communications Division has one vacancy in, uh,the
afternoon,urn,regular hourly position and that's one of three positions within that
division. So I wanna summarize the most critical components of the memo, and like
Geoff said, we'll take questions. Urn, so as I said, there's one vacancy in a
Communications Aide. So they currently work approximately 25 hours a week and,urn,
and then there are two of those positions,two employees,to fill those roles. We also
have in the Communications Division one Creative Assistant. They work approximately
20 hours a week, and urn,they're also hourly. Urn,two of those positions out of the three
are currently filled. So,urn,before we presented the,this memo,this April 18th memo to
you,we met with AFSCME representation and reviewed with them our thoughts and...
and process for how we were preparing to analyze each of these positions, not only these
three but also going forward if there are other positions throughout the City that...that
need consideration, uh, as part of this analysis. So when we talked with them,uh,they
didn't give us changes to....to those positions. They were aware of the....of the
Communications'vacancy and,uh, asked for more information. So a list of the positions
that were being considered,urn, it's very similar to the list that we presented to you in that
initial memo, initial follow-up memo. Urn, so very few of those had changed. We ended
this...this time on 22 positions throughout the....the organization. Urn,they may...they're
made up from 11 departments or divisions, and um,we also...considered that,urn, no full-
time or,um, I should say no union employee works less than half time. So half FTE,
which is about 20 hours a week. So no positions that worked less than 20 hours a week,
urn, initially were....were considered really for this conversion. Urn, in the full list that
we have,there are positions that are....that could work less than that. There are some
throughout, you know, customer service and....and other types of aide positions that, um,
that do currently work less than that. We wanted to include them to give the full scope
of.....of the potential impact here. So the memo outlines specific things for you to
consider,um....each of them plays,before I briefly touch on the Communications'
positions, each of the analysis that we need to perform,we have to consider a variety of
things because of the union contract that's existing,urn, as well as just other....other
requirements we have. So,um, impacts on existing employees would include,um, an
application or test in order for....for them to be considered for a position that would be
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converted. Urn, we have to post that position for 10 days. So the important thing to.... to
realize when this is being considered is that people who currently hold those positions,
it's not automatic that they would be filling a....a now permanent position. They would
have to reapply for the job and, urn,be reviewed just as any other applicant would be
reviewed in those positions. Urn, as part of that process we also would be reviewing
qualifications for each position,urn,before posting them. So if there's a change in, uh,
employment status from hourly to a permanent status position, we wanna make sure that
we have an opportunity to improve services potentially or, uh, department efficiencies or
whatever it might be, that....that would, urn.....that would change change that, uh,
position, I guess. We would review the minimum qualifications. We did that for both of
the, urn, Communications'positions presented to you today. A second thing to consider is
that,uh, there are bargaining unit provisions. So, uh, qualified, senior...senior AFSCME
employees would have the opportunity to apply for positions. They're not allowed,uh, to
apply for positions below their grade,but anything at their grade or above,
they're....they're welcome to apply for. Uh,that would leave the opportunity for those
positions to be filled by....by current AFSCME employees, leaving the current hourly
employee potentially without....without a position or...or the opportunity to apply for
something else at the City. Uh(mumbled) third impact would be any impacts on
supervisory positions. Uh, the union contract, the AFSCME contract, urn, prevents
bargaining unit employees from being supervised by other bargaining unit employees. So
currently the Communications'positions that we're considering, this doesn't apply. The
supervisor doesn't change, uh, the supervisor currently is a non-bargaining unit
employee. So that's....that's not impacted. Urn,this may not be the case for other
positions that we would consider later this year. So....if that were to be the case, urn,
AFSCME...current AFSCME positions that are supervising non-bargaining unit
employees would also need to be reviewed. So they would need to be reconsidered,
either as a ou....be corning out of the union because they can't supervise those
employees, or their, uh, responsibilities as supervisors would be reviewed and, um,
either....either reduced or taken away and that position would be re-reviewed. So, that
brings me to the....the basics for the Communications' position we...we detailed in a
chart. We would expect to do the same for all positions, going forward in future analysis,
and um....I can take....I can take any questions that you have about what....what we
presented in the memo or anything that I....that I went through today.
Salih/I really have a question. Urn, you just said....if there is like three hourly employees being
supervised by....an AFSCME employees, like a supervisor, right? If those become
(mumbled)hourly, we have to evaluate the....the, that's position. But if those people,we
are not eliminating the position. We are just changing those three hourly employee to
permanent employee, and they will be there. Why not being supervising by the same
person? Why you saying if they become from hourly to permanent the person who was
supervisin' will lose or will have....lose their position or we have to review the position?
Why? I understand that would happen, if we....we don't have those employee at all. But
we are not saying we are firing them,we are saying we're making them permanent. They
will be there! How come the supervisor will be affected?
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Monroe/I think....t think there's a couple things to clarify. Ur....the first is that,
um....currently the...the union does not per...you know,AFSCME contract does not
permit non-bargaining unit employees....(several talking)
Fruin/It's....no, you're on the right track. It's....it's the Chapter 20 of the State Code does not...
does not allow that type of, uh....uh, reporting relationship. So if there's an AFSCME
employee right now that's supervising hourly,those hourly become permanent,that....
that same AFSCME employee cannot, can no longer supervise them. That's State Code.
So we have two options. We take that AFSCME employee and we take it...take them out
of the union and make them a non-union position, or we have to retool that AFSCME
position and...and take away those supervisory responsibilities,which doesn't necessarily
mean the position's eliminated. But the....the,urn, duties of that position will change
such that it could change the classification of that position. If they're no longer
supervising,then we will have them do something else presumably, and it may not
warrant that same classification. So that's kind of the complexities that come with each
of these. (both talking)
Salih/ ....supervise those three....say for example three people bein' supervised by AFSCME,
and they become permanent. You said the...the code doesn't allow that to happen. Who
will supervise those three?
Fruin/That's what we'd have to figure out. That's what....position by position, we would...we
would talk to you about that. We'd present you with,um, a situation. We said, okay, this
person can no longer supervise these employees so we're suggesting X,Y, and Z. That's
not the case with the positions in front of you to...today. Urn, so I can't tell ya exactly
what would, you know, what we would suggest for various positions,but...um, that is just
a complication to keep in mind as we go down this path in the future that we might run
in...well, we will run into that situation with some of these positions.
Cole/I understand all that. I've received basically a differing opinion,that union leads are done
all of the time. Have you looked into the concept of a union lead,um, as opposed to
supervisory role? It essentially it's the same thing, if...if you could just comment on that?
Fruin/Well it's not the same thing. They may direct the work,but they wouldn't be supervising
the employee.
Cole/Okay, so what's the difference between directing the work and supervising the employee?
Fruin/Uh, you know the ability to....to, urn,hire,to fire, uh,to discipline, versus saying, okay
today here's our work plan. We are gonna go do X,Y, and Z.
Cole/Okay.
Fruin/We do have those(both talking) We have those leads, correct,in some of our other
divisions, you know,like Parks and Rec comes to mind. We have oftentimes with senior
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maintenance workers that....that may be within the union. Those folks have the ability to
direct work plans,but they're not responsible for hiring and firing and discipline.
Taylor/(mumbled)the evaluation process of....of that employee also,the union employee,
would be included in that,right?
Fruin/And those are all things...and that may be a suitable solution as we go down the path (both
talking)
Cole/Yeah!
Fruin/It may be that you become more of a union lead, as you put it,um,but....but that could,
that could impact, I'm not saying it will,that could impact that....that position and where
it falls in a classification.
Cole/The other question, maybe this'd be more of an Eleanor,urn,question relating to the Civil
Service statute. This has been raised as a potential obstacle that Civil Service would
require us to....to test these people that we would be reconverting, and for lack of a better
term I'm comparing year-round temporary and permanent part-time. The year-round
temporary are hourly employees that work throughout the year, as opposed to sort of
seasonal. It's my understanding we're not focusing on the seasonal. My understanding,
the Civil Service statute only applies to full-time positions and not part-time positions, is
that true?
Dilkes/Correct.
Cole/Okay. So if we were able to then convert from year-round temporary to permanent part-
time,that would not trigger the Civil Service unless we reclassified them to a full-time
position.
Salih/That true.
Cole/ Is that correct?
Salih/I think so.
Dilkes/We still have a posting requirement though because of the Veterans'Preference statute.
Cole/Okay. So that'd be the Veterans'Preference statute(both talking)
Dilkes/And we still have then the....the seniority issue(mumbled)
Cole/Yeah, and so....I think that's what'll be helpful for us to sort of talk about,because it's my
understanding,AFSCME's on record wanting this to happen, that they support this. And
so if there are State Code obstacles that's one thing. Obviously we can't change that, and
if there are....contract issues and there's a mutual agreed-to solution, we would not wanna
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do anything over the objection of AFSCME. We certainly would not wanna do that. We
certainly would not wanna have anyone losing their job involuntarily. Um, we would
want a direction that staff would negotiate with AFSCME and there would be a shared
solution that they would come up with, as opposed to us going through each position and
making this decision. So, they would literally have a seat at the table, and if there are
parts that they would object to,they would object to them. Urn,why....why can't we do
that?
Fruin/We can. That's not what you asked us to do though. You....you asked us to present you
with the information so that you can make the decision. If you want us to go back and...
and go through all of this and....and work with AFSCME and say, here's where we agree
and here's where we don't agree,urn,that's fine,uh,but I also wanna make it clear that....
we as staff, particularly me as City Manager,we go through this analysis every....every
year with the budget, on whether we should keep hourly, go to permanent,hire more
permanent,hire more hourly. That's part of the delib...the budget deliberations that we
spend hours and hours and hours going through. So when it comes to these
Communications'positions,urn, we have considered moving those permanent in the past,
and we've chosen not to do that. Matter of fact we've chosen in this particular case over
the years to change a, what used to be a permanent position,to....to go to an hourly
position, and we do that because we have all kinds of competing priorities throughout....
throughout the City. So...where, you know,where do we need to add permanent staff
most? Um, we need resources to do that, and oftentimes we have to then rely on hourly
employees in other parts of the operation. You can look up and down the list of 22
employees, or 22 positions that we have. There's great benefit to having permanent
people in all those positions, whether it's'a lifeguard, Communications' staff, Rec,uh,
Rec counter,urn, customer service staff—there is enormous benefit to having permanent
employees in all of those positions. But there's also a heavy cost that comes with that,
and that cost t hen, urn, is....is.....is competing with our needs in other parts of the
organization. If you're talking police officers or firefighters or finance staff or IT staff,
you name any part of the organization that you want....we have to make those decisions.
We have to make those recommendations to you. You have to make those decisions. So
that's what's challenging about this,because I see merit in each one of these cases on why
we should do the permanent,but you just need to understand there's that opportunity cost
again that we have to....we have to think about, cause if we're spending a couple hundred
thousand, whatever it may be, on this effort,we're spending a couple hundred thousand
on....on moving the minimum wage up,both very good things to do,but the reality is we
can't add staff in other parts of the organization where we may need it, and I'm talking
permanent staff,because this will take the first,this will take top priority, and that's....
that's your decision as policy makers. That's kinda what....that's what we're trying to do
here today is start that conversation,uh,with you.
Throgmorton/So for the moment,you've presented us with a template for.....future positions
that will have to be decided, I don't know 22 or whatever positions,right(several
responding)uh,but what you're asking us to do tonight is decide what to do with regard
to Communication staff,which is based on that template that you....
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Fruin/So we would go through this 20 more times is what we're(laughter)
Taylor/Well in regards to that position, I certainly would be in favor of....of changing that,
because I think,uh, it seems to be one of the least complicated to....to shift it over to
permanent and,uh, so a good place to start. Uh, I think....in regards to the initial
proposal, I think it wasn't really known,uh, some of the possible effects it could have on
the employees, you know,not....not the least of which is that the job requirements would
change,uh, and people would have to reapply for their positions, and uh, if that is the
case, I....I would hope that, uh,the City would do its best to, uh, assist any employees
that were displaced,uh, to find another position within the City.
Mims/When I look at this, um....I'm concerned.....in a couple regards. One, as Pauline just
addressed, I think there's an opportunity for a lot of people who currently work, and
maybe have worked for the City for a long time in an hourly position losing their jobs.
These are not going to be the same positions, I mean if...it's clear, and I think it makes
complete sense,that if we're gonna make these permanent and there's gonna be
significantly more cost associated with them that we're looking for higher skilled
individuals and so those job descriptions are gonna be rewritten, and so in many cases,
urn,people may lose their jobs. I think that's one thing that's really,really unfortunate. I
think we have a lot of people who,um, like what they're doing. They like the flexibility,
etc. I....I won't go into all the reasons on all the other ones,but I'll focus on the
Communication one. And....and I....I agree with what Geoff said and I had a really nice
conversation with Terry Byers on Monday afternoon and we talked about these, and what
I come down to is I think some of these positions, and I think the front desk is...is a
specific example of this, where we've had some great success with college students,
where it has just fit in as a great part-time job. They've stayed for the whole academic
year. They've managed to fit it in with their schedule. They've really gotten to know the
city, urn, I think they've provided great service in terms of being able to answer questions,
etc. I also questioned at the front desk, and I don't know the number of phone calls that
come in, I don't know the number of people they have to greet and stop to actually, you
know, give direction to,but to me to upgrade those positions and expect somebody to be
doing graphic work or project work or whatever, I don't think you're gonna get the
efficiency that you would desire in those positions,because of so many interruptions. I
mean you figure these people are being interrupted every two to three, five to 10 minutes,
and so as you're trying to work on a project and you keep having to answer the phone or
you have to look up and either greet somebody or just say hi, even if it's an employee,
you're just not gonna get the efficiency, I don't think, in those positions. And then when
you add to that the potential, and it may not be that,but the potential of$67,000,urn, in
that change, coming back to what Geoff said, we have a lot of competing priorities. I'd
rather see that money go to, you know,middle range,uh, union positions where we really
need full-time,permanent staff in the City to provide, urn, a lot of the services that we're,
that staff is really stretched right now. So I don't agree with moving forward. I would
prefer to stay with the way we are with this one.
Salih/I really think differently. I thinks we should move that three position to permanent
position with benefit and, especially we already given instruction to that,to look into
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(unable to understand)become 22, right? I remember you presented letter like long time
ago, like when we brought this up like 38 employees. Now it's even less than 38. Only
22, and I think since we already ask them to...this supposed to be our first step to do that,
you know, what the value of the City? And those people like...I'm gonna give you an
example. (unable to understand) example of the front desk. I will give example of the
Rec Center. There is many employees there work on the,how many, over like maybe 30?
Or something like that. They work at the front desk of the Rec Center, and during
summertime you don't see those 30. It would reduce the number and the employees who
been there over the years, they will get more hours, and they been there for long time.
They are not college student. They are single moms. They are people who are like this
family, and I think if we made them permanent and give them the same amount of hours
that...during summer, or during winter and spring we spread this hour to students because
we rehire again. And I...I see all the time that been happening. Let us make this like
work hard and converting all of them to permanent(unable to understand) if we gonna
talk about those three positions, since you said this is not gonna be affect of losing any
position or supervising or anything, let us go ahead and do it. I talked to Geoff before
about the front desk and I said why not makin' the front desk person a permanent and you
told me, yes, we can do that, especially now as the person left and we can hire new
person. We will give them more job description, like more things to do,maybe we can
ask, uh, for someone who is speak two language to be like(unable to understand) some
kind of like more job,but I thinks the val...you know we have really, we have to have a
value for the people who work here. Over there is 20 hours every week, and you know,
they should get benefit. (unable to understand) not a student, they are family! And I...I
really recommend that all the three position right now for the Communication to be
permanent and to be also like giving them benefit.
Taylor/Geoff or Ashley, could you clarify again we're not talking 22 people. It was 22 positions,
but again how many, it was like over a hundred or something actual people, right?
Monroe/That's correct. Um, so....so there's just three we're considering tonight but, um, there's
22 positions and that....the range of,um, of people working in positions within those 22
positions ranges anywhere from 150 to 180 people.
Salih/But we talkin' about the people who....before you wrote us a memo saying that we had...
we have 38 employees, who....position I mean!
Monroe/It's possible that it....it was lower than that number initially. You're probably recalling
correctly(both talking)
Salih/Right, it was 38! I can't forget that!
Monroe/We did add a significant number,um, from Recreation,Aquatics, and from the Library.
So that's....that's grown, the number that we're considering at this point(both talking)
impacted, um, potentially. So some people work 20 plus hours. Some people work
anywhere from five to 10 hours (both talking)
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Salih/Yeah,but we talking about people who work 20 hours a week over (both talking)
Fruin/ ...if I can clarify, let me use lifeguards for an example. We have lifeguards that work close
to 20 hours a week throughout the entire year. We also have lifeguards that are....are,
perform those same duties that may work five hours or 10 hours a week or 15 hours a
week. So even within each position there's great variability in some cases on how many
hours per week. We are now including positions where you could see, you know,
• lifeguard is a good example. We could go to a model that is....that is more permanent in
nature, and we could hire 20-hour a week lifeguards on a permanent basis and not have as
much need for those that work five or 10 hours (both talking)
Salih/Yes!
Fruin/ ...so that's kinda what....that's kinda what we're....what we're working through here, uh,
with several of those positions. There was Library aides, the Rec Center,uh, customer
service,those are all positions in which you have great variability in the hours worked,
but they....some work close to 20 hours year-round and....and some don't, so...(both
talking)
Salih/But when you say like a hundred something position, you just like confusing us and I think
you confuse audience too (both talking)
Throgmorton/...staff, not positions. Hundred some(both talking)
Fruin/ ....there's positions and there's staff in the positions. (several talking) So...so like Rec
Center, customer service would be a position and there's 30 to 40 staff in that position.
Salih/ I mean like now you including people who work five hours, 15 hours. We are not talking
about them to make them permanent. (several talking)
Fruin/You can't have permanent(both talking)
Salih/ ...we are talking about the people who work 20 hour, at least 20 hour a week, like (both
talking)
Cole/Year round, and they're hourly.
Salih/Year around. They never like they work, I know one of the Rec Center people, two of
them, I know them personally. They work there for over two years and they work
between 20, during summer they get more hours because the students gone. I'm talking
about those really, to convert them to permanent. (several talking)
Dilkes/ ...can't convert individual people to permanent. We can convert positions to (both
talking)
Salih/That's what I mean! Position (both talking)
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Dilkes/ ...Geoff(both talking) telling you is there are different hours worked by different people
in the same position.
Salih/That what I meant. Regardless what you call it like legal-wise. But....that what I mean.
Because he just said there are some people that work like not really 20 hour a week.
We're not talking about (both talking)
Froin/I think the challenge is you...you can't....you cannot have an hourly person, an hourly
employee perform the same duties as a benefited. So.....
Salih/I did not said that.
Fruin/No, I didn't suggest that you did,but that's why we can't convert some to permanent and
keep some hourly and expect them to do the same duties. We would have to change the
duties, uh, so that they're discernible, so that the person workin' the five hours,um, is
doing a different job than the person that was hired 20 hours per(both talking)
Salih/ Okay, well then if....if we give you the example of the friend, a friend(unable to
understand) Rec Center. If we are during summer just people will reduce to say 10, like
10 people only from 30. Why we don't just give them the more hours and make them
permanent and not hire another people, so all those people will be permanent.There is
not another one work on the front desk, less hour and getting the same money. I don't
know if you understand what I really wanna (both talking)
Fruin/That makes sense(both talking)
Salih/That what I was looking for, like instead of having, uh, two people, like two...three
lifeguard, one of them work 15 hours, one 20, and the other one 20. You know, that
person will (unable to understand)he work seasonally. Don't hire that person.
Thomas/Focus on the three Communication positions (several talking) cause it's...(both talking)
Salih/...is saying even the 22. Why you always wanna talk about something you...he....he wrote
everything on this memo. You talk about the 22 positions and he talk about the three
people. I guess (unable to understand) talk about everything in this memo. What you
think.
Throgmorton/No, he provided a template. A....a way of(both talking) a way of thinking about
the positions.
Salih/Ashley, she talk about the 22 people and it's listed here, and I....I, 22 positions, and I was
talking about it. And also I really wanna talk about the three position. I did. I already
talk about it and I said I would like to move all of them to permanent position with
benefit.
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Throgmorton/What do the rest of you think about the idea of, uh,having these three positions
converted to permanent positions?
Teague/I do think that there's great value again in these three in this position, uh,being
converted to, urn,permanent, although Susan does bring up a good point, as far as like
interruptions at the front desk. Urn, I guess that's' somethin'that, you know, I don't know
if AFSCME has any thoughts,urn(laughs) about the positions or anything like that,
because I think that AFSCME has been asked by us to be at the table and, you know,
voice any concerns if...if they have any,for....so that we're totally aware of....of any
challenges that they might see. Um, as of now, I'm not aware with this position that
AFSCME has concerns. That's not been expressed to me. Urn,with the current positions
that's before us,um, and so I'm gonna support the position that's before us. I do think that
Maz, you know, was getting to,um,just express her concern for future direction, urn, and
I think it's very valid that, you know, everybody hears it today and....and maybe she was
goin'into the details a little bit,but she wanted to make sure it was clear that,urn, if we
needed to convert some positions,urn,you know more to permanent, that means that, you
know, 10 positions might go down to three positions or four positions. She wanted to get
that point across, and....and I did receive that, so thank you for,uh, expressin'that. So
for me, I am gonna be supportive of this that's before us tonight.
Throgmorton/ ...the rest of you?
Cole/ So my...I just wanna, even though these three positions I do wanna provide a(mumbled)
promise I'll be super-short. This comes upo...this comes as a result of a long process of
reclassification from union positions to hourly. It's my understand about 10 years ago
there were 220 union-level positions,permanent part-time. Urn, over about 10 years ago
there was a consultant that was hired for purposes of reclassifying to hourly, to save
money. Urn, one of the key issues here,why does....why are hourly employees ineligible,
because the City saw it during collective bargaining to exclude them from benefits by
contract. That's a contractual provision that if AFSCME is willing to work with the City
to make that happen,we do not need to look at that as some barrier. Urn, we can if
AFSCME's willing to do it. We tend to do that. I support Maz on the three. The other
thing is too is that, and maybe that was our fault in terms of direction to staff. I do not
wanna do anything over the objection of our, you know,AFSCME. I want a...a collective
process and if AFSCME wants to do that,that'd be wonderful. I really hope they do
wanna do that, so that we are not wading into the weeds. I'm glad to wade into the weeds
tonight, but I wanna fix what we....what went wrong 10 years ago, and reverse that
process. It is gonna cost more money, Geoff,uh, we did reduce the employee benefits
levy by 10-cents. I think the taxpayers are entitled to review the funding decisions that
we make,but I...I don't want this to turn into something for fear. We are trying to add to
the quality of life of people that deserve benefits, okay? That's what we're trying to do.
Urn, and I think there are a lot of tools that we have available to prevent the loss of jobs.
Uh, so for now let's convert them,um, let's hope there's this collective interactive process
over the next four months. We will get a price tag at the end of that process. Council
will have to support it or not,urn,but I think that's what I would at least like to see.
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Thomas/ 1....I support the....the move to,uh, permanent, and I'm looking at it in part on (both
talking)
Throgmorton/The three positions.
Thomas/The three positions,uh,the,you know,they're serving in this....in the Communications
Division and I like the idea of expanding,uh,their duties beyond simply....in a sense
serving as a greeter and directing visitors coming into the building. I like the idea of
expanding that notion of communication to be broader than that so it captures some of the
other ways in which the City interacts with the public. So I think that makes for a more
interesting position that is kinda more up-to-date with the way in which the City does
engage the community. So I kinda like the opportunities that it....it....it suggests could
be generated by this. You know there is this issue of how distracted will this person be by
their, urn, duties serving as....as someone greeting and directing,but urn, I think that's a
manageable problem, so ,uh, I think it would enhance the position and I do feel that the
greeter's a really important aspect of(both talking)
Throgmorton/(mumbled)
Thomas/(both talking) ....of our,they are the face....anyone who interacts with the public is the
face of the City and,uh, anyone coming into City Hall certainly represents and the image
of the City and must do so in a really positive way.
Throgmorton/I think a desirable feature of people who are greeting....people coming in the front
gate, front door, would be capacity to speak another language. Uh, I....I don't know if
that's really possible, cause there are other things people in these positions would have to
perform,but uh,my ideal person would be somebody who's, I don't know,reasonably
fluent in French or reasonably fluent in Swahili or reasonably fluent in Spanish or...and I
don't know, you know, if we can do that, that's great.
Fruin/The....the job description that...or the ....the table that's included in your memo, urn, goes
through the change in minimum qualifications. Of course at a very high level our job
descriptions are,um....are more detailed than this,but if you look at the minimum
requirements,uh, for the Communications Aide position, we have bi-lingual...bi-lingual
skills and that's just preferred right now. If the Council wants us to make that a,uh,
requirement of the position, we'd be happy to do that. We look for that skill in just about
any position that we hire. Uh,we debated whether to make it required or not in this
position,uh, for purpose of this memo and we left it at a preference, a strong preference,
but...that's, if that's a, something that you value, we can....we can go out with that
requirement.
Teague/I personally just think it should remain a preference. A strong preference but(both
talking)
Throgmorton/Yeah,my words would be'strongly preferred.' Pauline, did you wanna say
anything?
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Taylor/ I think I already, urn, said that I would be in favor, since it seems to be the less
complicated of all the positions,but I think,uh, adding on to what Rockne had said, with
the entire picture, uh, I think it....it's extremely important that, I know in the first meeting
when you talked about this with HR and other folks,AFSCME played a role in that
meeting and I think it's important that they continue to play a role in that and be invited to
the table to talk about the job descriptions,the positions, and....and etc. That's extremely
important.
Throgmorton/Okay, I think you got direction, Geoff, about...with regard to these three positions.
Fruin/(several talking) I'm sorry, go ahead.
Salih/No I just would like to close by saying.....I know that I'm the one that was really pushing
hardest from day one, and my intentions was really not to lay off nobody,because I been
hearing like a lot of comments going around,uh, employees themselves and some people
reach out to me and they say(unable to understand)they are suffering, there is many
position that would be eliminated. I just wanna tell everybody, our intention is not to
eliminate any position. We will do whatever we can to keep all the positions and the
same time to try to provide benefit and if all the Council agree, of course. Thank you.
Throgmorton/Okay!
Fruin/I do wanna....just clarify one thing, cause Councilor Cole has,uh, if I'm interpreting
correctly,has suggested a different approach,um, and that is instead of bringing you
case-by-case or position-by-position analysis that....I think your preference if I
understood you correctly is that we do that internally with AFSCME at the table. We see
where we have agreement on and then we....we bring that to ya and if there's ones where
we don't have agreement on,we can....we can separate those(both talking) is that....
Cole/And that's our fault, Geoff. I don't think we obviously didn't provide that direction,but I
do certainly do not want a situation where we were steamrolling AFSCME and doing
stuff that they did not want to have happen. So that....that's sort of my thought process,
that you would then work out with them.
Fruin/The only caveat that I would put on that is that...then you're....I'm likely to go into that
sayin'here's where I think we get the most value out of doing that. Urn,because there's a
price tag associated with....with each one of these and....and I've already made that
judgment in the budgets that I've presented to you over my tenure, to keep those at
hourly. So I just want you to know at the outset that's...that's still my recommendation is
to keep those positions hourly. Knowing that you wanna go in a different direction as a
group, I'm happy to sit down with AFSCME and....and try to determine from my
perspective, from our perspective as the City management team where we see the most
value in converting to permanent and then where I really don't see, you know, where I
feel strongly that there perhaps isn't that value there, and maybe(both talking)
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Cole/ ...yes, so we'd have the work session(several talking)
Mims/I would prefer, I mean we've already given staff one direction. I guess my preference
would be to have staff continue with the direction we've already given them, you know,
we've indicated the interaction with AFSCME and making sure they're apprised of what's
going on, and then once staff gives us their recommendation,AFSCME is certainly
capable and welcome to give us their rebuttal, if there is one, or where they agree with
staff,where they disagree,why they do,urn, you know as I indicated, Terry and I had a
great meeting Monday afternoon and....and my assumption from that meeting is that
there's a number of these positions that....that AFSCME may not agree with changing to
permanent. Urn,but I think rather than changing the whole process, that doesn't
eliminate AFSCME's ability to have plenty of input to us and I would hope that they...
that they would continue to have that input. So I would rather just let staff go the way
we'd already given them direction and publicly invite AFSCME to make sure that we
hear from you.
Salih/But if Geoff said...Geoff said he can do it, if he can really do it why not? We go with the
direction we just(both talking)
Throgmorton/He's saying he can do it, if we tell him to do it.
Salih/Yes,we....
Throgmorton/Alternatively, I think he's recommending that he continue down the path that he
described and Ash...Ashley described in the memo. So...
Fruin/It's your preference.
Salih/You just said....what did you said, Geoff? You just said you can do it.
Fruin/We can keep doing this like we've done tonight. Urn,we have another one ready to come
to you,or....or will shortly, and that's the....the Senior Center positions. We're startin'to
work on that cause we have a vacancy over there, an anticipated vacancy. Urn, so we can
continue to do that for 20 more positions, or to follow Councilor Cole's, um....uh,
comments,um, if you want me to sit down with AFSCME and see where we have
agreement on which positions hold the most value,when you convert them to permanent,
and which ones perhaps that either AFSCME or management, or maybe both, see little
value in converting to permanent,we can bring you an abbreviated list, and say,these 10
positions,AFSCME and the City agree should remain hourly, or should be converted to
permanent, and now let's focus on these(both talking)
Teague/I guess what,um....Councilor Cole recommended is actually what I thought the
direction that we had given. I was not anticipating that we would have each of these
before us. I thought this one was,urn, it....it happened, you know,happen earlier than
our deadline and I just thought this came before us,urn, which was a great opportunity
for us to give input,understand the, urn,the role AFSCME and the City has taken,urn,
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which I'm very comfortable with. So I personally don't think that we need to review all
of them. I think that, urn, certainly if there's disagreement,uh, as we, you k now, stated
back before,we don't wanna get into, you know,August and learnin'that there's this huge
disagreement on a lot of issues, and so I would say what Rockne has suggested is what
we go by.
Salih/Yes, that's what I really meant. (both talking)
Cole/ I was gonna say do we have a fourth?
Thomas/Yeah, I...(several talking)
Throgmorton/Geoff, can you restate what the(several talking)to do(mumbled)same
wavelength here.
Fruin/We have,uh, we have....we have 20 positions left. Okay. We're gonna go through the
same exercise on our end to....to look at this. Um,we're gonna sit down with AFSCME
and we're gonna see what positions,urn, that both sides feel,urn,where...where there
would be the most value in converting to permanent, and then we're gonna see where
both sides think that there might be the least value, uh, in....in.....in converting to
permanent, and hopefully come to you with a list that says....AFSCME and the City are
in agreement that these positions probably should remain hourly and we're in agreement
that these positions hold a lot of value going to permanent. You'll have to make that
determination when I give you the numbers,but for us they hold the most value to....to
convert to permanent. And then there may be some in between where we have
disagreements and then we'll have to go through the....the more detailed exercise like we
went through tonight with you and....and let you make that determination.
Cole/What Geoff said!
Throgmorton/I think there's support for that, uh, I see nodding heads. Okay. Good. (several
talking in background) All right, uh, we could probably do,uh, finish up this information
packet and then we'll have to stop. So we're on the August,uh,April 18 packet. Are
there any other...items you wanna draw attention to? I wanna say something about
potholes. (laughter) I don't know if anybody's noticed,but there's a lot of potholes out
there in the streets, and a lot of our streets are in just horrible condition. The latter
statement is no surprise. We've all known for a long time our streets are in horrible
condition and they are because we don't have enough money to pave'em all or repave'em
all. But the potholes, so we got a memo,uh, from....I'm sorry,who did it come from?
(several responding) From Ron, about that,and if I understand it correctly, the, um....
What is it? There's the specific date that,uh...we're gonna be able to get out there,April
the 22nd there's,uh, asphalt will be available, is that for all the pothole work or is that for
like the second crew doing pothole work?
Fruin/Mr. Pothole(several talking and laughing)talk to you about that.
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Throgmorton/Hi, Ron!
Knoche/Ron Knoche, Public Works Director. Uh, so we are in the process now we have hot mix
asphalt available. Urn, obviously prioritizing the arterial streets right now, urn, getting
work done as quickly as we can,uh,then we'll get into the residential neighborhoods,
after we get the....those areas done. Uh, they've made a lot of focus on the Park Road
area, which is obviously one of the areas we've heard a lot of,uh, concerns about. So
that's where their focus has been, as....as of recent times. Obviously the weather has to
cooperate too, so if it continues to rain on us, it slows us down but,uh, they are out and
they are making,uh, more permanent patches, urn, with the hot mix.
Throgmorton/Okay, so there's hope! (laughs)
Knoche/There is hope. Yes! (laughter)
Throgmorton/Good, drive carefully, everybody! Gotta learn how to slalom, you know, in a
vehicle, so....all right. Thanks, Ron.
Knoche/Thank you.
Throgmorton/Any other items on the April 18th packet? Oh man,uh....April 25th packet?
Mims/GO Bond, uh, we'll be voting on that tonight and I guess it's actually in the May 2nd one,
but we've got the triple-A bond rating, again. So I think that's important.
Throgmorton/(long pause) Well, all right, we can turn to the May 2nd packet. We probably
have a couple minutes. So, May 2nd?
Salih/Um, the(unable to understand)
Fruin/Yeah, we submitted a memo to you. This is a strategic planning item that we've had on
your pending list for a while and you had brought up again during budget. So I thought
I'd....I'd maybe try to start the conversation by just giving you some statistics and maybe
some different options to go down, I'm not really prepared to tell ya, you know, exactly
what, uh, what could come of each path you could go down,but I thought maybe seein'
the....the purchasing statistics would....would help you navigate that (both talking)
Throgmorton/Geoff,before you do this, uh, it's 20 till right now and it feels to me like this
discussion about the vendor thing will take some time. You have to make a presentation,
we'll have some discussion. I don't think we have time really to do that before the formal
meeting. So we can come back to that one item after the formal meeting. So are...are
there, is there any other topics on the May 2nd?
Mims/1P7, the 2019 Party in the Park schedule. So encourage people to take a look at that.
Those are always fun events in the summertime.
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Taylor/ I was pleased to see they're going to do some Dog in the Park events. That sounds fun!
Salih/(mumbled)
Throgmorton/IP9,which is the minutes of the April 9th meeting of the Parks and Recreation
Commission. There's,uh, a....a statement that the Monarch Festival's gonna be held on
Sunday,August 28, and that this does not conform with the calendars. So it's either the
day or the date that's wrong.
Fruin/Okay.
Salih/Can we talk about the meeting schedule very quick?
Throgmorton/Yeah, sure. Right.
Salih/Kellie?
Throgmorton/What do you need, Kellie?
Fruehling/Well I know Maz is gonna be gone for a portion of the summer, I think May 21st
through August 1st, if that sounds correct. Or 23rd, I'm sorry.
Salih/Like June and July. I just would like to see, cause last summer you guys skipped one
meeting and...because a lot people was having commitment during summer. I just wanna
make sure if you are doing the same thing this time or the staff maybe really in need of
like(unable to understand)
Throgmorton/You're gonna be gone all of June and July, is that right? Okay, I think there are
four meetings scheduled in June and July.
Salih/I will be calling in though. I like to. There is many, many good things coming up and I
wanna....I'll be calling in. I...even though if I call....we know direct's real expensive but
I will try my best, if the internet thing's not working.
Mims/I think at this point we need to keep the meetings(several talking)we have a lot on the
agenda, I mean,maybe when we get closer we can decide if we can give up one,but I
think we've got a lot.
Taylor/We've had quite a few recently where we've gone three weeks and skipped some and
changed the dates and that's been tough.
Throgmorton/Yeah I....I'm inclined to think that too.
Salih/Yeah,just let me know(unable to understand) I guess Kellie can text me cause we receive
texts normally. Anyone can text me on my cell phone. Uh, I will receive text(mumbled)
so I don't have to call in or if you change it for any reason. I just have to know.
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Throgmorton/Okay, so I think we're gonna have to stop there, folks, and then we'll return to the
work session after our formal meeting, and we'll pick up with 1P#4 on the May 2nd
packet.
Salih/Thanks!
(BREAK FOR FORMAL MEETING)
(RECONVENE WORK SESSION)
Information Packet Discussion (April 4,April 11,April 18,April 25, May 2) (cont.):
Throgmorton/The one item was.....IP#4 in the May 2nd,uh....um, information packet....which
has to do with a....a policy on vendor wages.
Froin/Yeah, your strategic plan,um...uh,requests that we consider a policy to limit City business
to vendors that pay all employees a wage of 10.10 or higher,uh, what this memo really
intended to do was provide some basic information that'll help you with that deliberation.
I don't expect,uh, that you're gonna be able to give me firm direction,urn, with,uh, with
one meeting here. So I just really wanted to kind of put some information out there to
help you start to think about that. It's your call whether you,uh, feel comfortable giving
me direction now,uh,whether you want to schedule a work session on this topic. You
could request additional information from us, but I felt like in order to get this item
checked off the....the strategic plan I needed to start that conversation.
Salih/I wanna say something about that. Yeah, I....I really, I know that I'm....I'm the one who
brought this up during the, uh....the(unable to understand) you know,just by looking at
all the options that you provided here, and by really thinking about this, I just find out
that there is really no way we can figure out like all the employee...employer that, if they
paying 10.10 or not, and say if you wanna buy furniture, how we gonna know those
people are doing it, and if you're gonna buy....there is many thing that City buy, and I....
I just find out we can just go take option#3, and this, uh,the option that(unable to
understand)presented by the City Manager,recommendation that,uh, same thing that, I
know that you have similar,uh, like difference to the(unable to understand) like,uh, like
buy locally. They have list, and now he....he....he really suggesting that we can have the
same thing, like just have some people that we know, they doing 10.10 and be there as a
list of reference and maybe we can use'em and if something really difficult,we can know
and we have to buy something just go ahead. Because we don't have a way to know that.
I....I really support#3 and if you guys supporting that we don't need to do anything.
Teague/So....I guess I have comments about this. So currently we have an existing where, you
know,we....have a preference for, you know, Johnson County businesses versus non-
local vendors. I think that's awesome,but....when.....when we're talkin' about business
owners and,um,we're gonna hold them to,uh, 10.10, now remember some of the non-
local vendors are not even in this area. They could be in a community where,um, the
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cost of livin' is very low, urn, 10.10 there, um,might be....an acceptable wage,
potentially. It....it won't be the same as Johnson County, urn, as far as like living, um...
urn, you know, comparable living wages. So I am not in support of this on any level,
only because I really do believe that,um, for some of those new businesses that are
startin',they don't even know, I mean, some of them are....they're very new in this.
They're just trying to make it as an entrepreneur, and you know,us not givin'them
government business of...whether it's pens or whatever the case may be, which can really
advance them to a different level, where they can change their, you know,personally
change,urn, their financial status from bein'a real start-up business to havin'financial
resources to increase their wages for their,urn, employees. The other thing is that we
don't have the ability to reach out to these,urn, vendors and educate them on our mission
on, you know, a standard wage,uh, that we think is acceptable, and so with this,because
we don't have the educational abilities within our,uh,realm to reach out to businesses,
I...I just don't support this. Urn, I do think that the overall pay for,um, staff in wages is
very important, urn, and I think it's something that,uh,we should as a city continue to
support,uh, livable wages,but in this content of tryin'to hold people that are, you know,
vendors that,urn,we could help advance them to a place where they could afford to give
some of the, uh,wages that we hope for. So I...don't support this,but I do appreciate...
Throgmorton/You don't even support the first option? (several talking in background)
Teague/Urn, I was...she was referrin'to the third.
Throgmorton/Yeah.
Teague/And then the, urn, and the, yes, I do support the first, where it says we do not pursue, any
vendor policies.
Mims/ I would agree with you, Bruce, and I think, I mean even when I look at that third one, you
know, investigate a preference policy that gives a competitive advantage for vendors that
meet the desired wage levels. To me that requires a whole lot of time and effort on the
part of staff to try and get the documentation that these vendors even....even meet the
standards that we're talking about. I mean is it just a voluntary compliance? Is it,how do
you know they're tellin' you the truth, I mean I....I just think we start getting into so many
details that we can, as a city, really verify and then as is indicated in here, we could end
up in a situation where we're giving preference to say out of state companies or
companies that are much larger distance,rather than to local companies. So I....I think
the complexities in terms of documentation and conflicts between local versus wages,
urn,make it preferable not to address it.
Cole/I guess I don't see it as that complex. I mean you essentially certify that you're paying a
living wage as set forth by the Johnson County minimum wage recommendation. Urn,
you know Maz and I just met,urn,in relation to Des Moines and they have essentially 14
questions that they offer contractors now,post-bid,urn, and they think that that's perfectly
acceptable and so for example if they say do you follow the living wage as set forth by
Johnson County? And they say yes, and they have one employee who's workin' for'em
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that makes below that,they can make that report and presumably we would have a breach
of contract against them. So I don't think it's that complicated,and I think it's even more
complicated to live in poverty, and that is what we're trying to reduce here is to work
yourself up out of poverty through hard work. The legislature has taken away our
authority to do project labor agreements. They've taken away our authority to have
minimum living wage standards, and so we do have the pocket of the purt...purse right
now, and I think we should do it. I don't think it's going to be that complicated, and...
and also gives us the flexibility we need if there is another worthy vendor, like if there is
some under-served communities, they could add that to the point score. So we're not
categorically eliminating them,um, as far as that goes, and at least in the memo that I
reviewed, Geoff did not indicate that it would be overly complex to implement or....let
me ask you this, Geoff. For our local certification, does that cause staff a lot of angst in
terms of administering that point score. Is that....is that very complex and we spend a lot
of hours doing that?
Fruin/Well, one it's easy to verify, so no, it's....it's not complex, and it only applies to limited
purchasing situations. Our local preferences limited in scope and, you know,when I
threw out these options, they're some high level...we're gonna have to dig into this and
come back to you and say here's how we can work...here's how we think we can make it
work, and here's all the challenges associated with it. You know, for example, local
preference doesn't apply to public improvements. It doesn't apply to RFPs and RFQs.
It's....it's certain categories of hard bids, because we have other limitations and
complexities. We have to go through the same exercise with...with this, and I would
agree that it would be a lot simpler for us if we allowed them to just self-certify and you
have to kinda take them at their word for it,but I don't want our staff to go,you know
(both talking)
Cole/(mumbled)
Fruin/ ...anything like that, so it has to be some sort of self-certification,uh, system. Um, so if...
if that's the path you want us to go down,we would come back to you at some point and
say, okay,here's how this framework could work, here's the complexities. I could give
you staff, you know, some....some rough estimates on impacts on staff and I'm just not
quite there yet.
Thomas/Yeah I was intrigued with the concept of giving a local preference to paying a living
wage, I mean that seemed like a....
Salih/ ...that what I mean(both talking)
Thomas/ It...it would be, in my view, it'd seem like an economic development opportunity, I
mean we're trying to incentivize companies,uh, if they pay the minimum wa...not the
minimum but the....the (both talking)
Salih/(mumbled)
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Thomas/ ....um, and come to Iowa City, we will give them the preference. Or if they're already
here and they pay that range, we give them a preference. It seems to be incentivizing
what we want, which is local, a local....promoting the local economy and paying a living
wage.
Salih/And also there is local organizations, like the Center for Worker Justice can help give out
the list of people who are (mumbled) I don't think this is really complicated and we can
do even more than that. But I don't wanna just suggest that. As a city if we wanna do
something, we can do it, and just talkin' about the staff time. Susan Mims, I'm sorry but
each time we bring something you saying the staff time. Let's hire staff to do the job!
I....I appreciate the staff time and...but they been hired to do that. (both talking) ...time is
staff, you know, this is too much for the staff, this is too much for staff. Yeah, I want staff
to come and say we tried, we could not do it. This is too much. When they come and say
that, we will say, oh,my gosh. They can't do it,but we cannot just assume all the time
the staff are busy, the staff cannot do things. I....I think this is, we can go beyond this. I
just try to make it really not complicated by taking an option that the City Manager
provided for us. And he's doing it for the local business right now, so he can do it for the
also local people who are paying. I'm not talking about really(unable to understand) I'm
talking about, you have (unable to understand)the round table, City round table meeting.
You get food for the people. That's....(unable to understand) they have, you know,they
do 10.10 and we can buy that food from them. I just think this is (unable to understand)
(both talking)
Throgmorton/I personally....speaking for myself, I personally would like to revisit this in the, at
say the next meeting. I....I don't wanna make a decision on this tonight. I think given
the time, if we kind of process this and try to get to four people, we could chew up a lot
of time.
Salih/ (unable to understand)now almost three people supporting it. We need one more.
Throgmorton/Support what in particular?
Taylor/An....an ordinance or....
Salih/Local (several talking)
Throgmorton/...third option.
Salih/Yeah, the....I hear you're right, three people are supporting this and we would like to hear
from Pauline.
Taylor/By local you're referring in your memo, Geoff, 800 of the 1,800 are Iowa City so those
folks that are referring to local, are you referring just to those businesses in the (several
talking) Iowa City proper, not Coralville(several talking) Pardon me?
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Fruin/You could tie the two together. You could...you could be, in order to qualify for the local
preference you have to certify that you're payin' a certain wage. If you only wanna limit
to locals, or you just make it,it doesn't matter where you're from. You could be from
Canada and if you're payin'that wage you can get a preference. That's what we have to
go back, we have to work through all that,uh, and then present you with those options.
Salih/Because we can...we don't have a way to know somebody outside this town, if they paying
that or not. There is no way we can figure out that. And also, even in town. Some
people we don't know like if they paying that or not. That's why I said we go,he said he
can bring a list...of the people that at least pay 10.10 right now and we can provide the list
from Center for Worker Justice too, and we can use those for now, and if we find out
(unable to understand) said we paying 10.10 we can add it to the list as we go,but we
don't have to complicate it. This is not really complicated.
Throgmorton/Well if....Pauline, if you know exactly what you wanna do we should go ahead
and act,but I can tell ya I don't think we are in a position right now to make a(both
talking)
Salih/ ....Mr. Mayor.
Throgmorton/I don't believe we are in a position to make (both talking)
Salih/You are saying we.
Throgmorton/As....as a Council that's been able to deliberate the question adequately. That's
what I think.
Mims/I would agree with Jim. I just think there's....I....(sighs)that third option doesn't tie the
wages to the local,urn. I think just the whole conversation of we know locally who's
paying it. I think, as Geoff said....I think Geoff said earlier, I think this has to be all
voluntary in terms of people saying that they do it. We don't,unless you're going in
looking at wage sheets, you don't know. It's all voluntary in terms of(both talking)
Salih/We have the list, Center for Worker Justice has the list(both talking)
Mims/Okay,how did they(both talking)
Salih/ ...said that.
Mims/Okay, so they said that!
Salih/What you mean? If somebody told me we pay 10.10, they could be lying?
Mims/Yes! So what I'm saying(both talking)
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Salih/We are not going to say that. We are not(both talking) local business people to say that
(both talking) (unable to understand)
Taylor/I agree somewhat with,uh, what the Mayor is saying as far as taking a little more time
to...to digest all this, cause the numbers I think were staggering, that Geoff said that's
(several talking) also mentioned that maybe surveying the existing vendors about their...
their existing wages, but again I think what Susan is alluding to is, it would be all a
matter of trust, I mean you...you're a very trusting believing person, Mazahir, and so we
would be trusting, and...that's 800. You said you have 165. So, um, that's...that's a lot of
people that we would need. I mean I agree with...with the concept that we....we shouldn't
be helping out businesses that....that aren't following, uh, the guidelines (both talking)
Salih/ ....the people saying I'm paying or just to the people you (unable to understand) Let us
think about it, you know!
Throgmorton/Okay, I think we have....we don't have four votes for acting tonight. I would
suggest that we instruct the staff to put this item on our next information packet, so that
we can come back to it at our May 21st meeting. Is there(both talking) Sorry?
Cole/Yeah, and we'd do it at the beginning of the work session, so we're fresh.
Throgmorton/Yeah, sure.
Taylor/Yes.
Throgmorton/Are we okay with that? (several responding) Okay. All right. I think we have
nothing else to do (both talking)
Fruehling/ ...listening post.
Throgmorton/I'm sorry, the listening post?
Fruehling/Bruce had...uh, mentioned he was interested. (several talking) If we would look at
either the last week of May, first week of June. (several talking)
Throgmorton/We haven't chosen a location yet,have we?
Fruehling/No, and that's...there was in the late handouts Monday.
Throgmorton/Yeah, I was gonna recommend Lemme School, as a location.
Mims/Which school?
Throgmorton/Lemme. Uh, so what's the date?
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Fruehling/I think if we're doin' it at one of the schools, I don't think there's gonna be lots of
problems as far as getting a date at the school. So I think it would work, whatever works
out for Bruce and....
Throgmorton/Okay, do we know who's done it for the last two or three meetings, two or three
listening posts?
Fruehling/Uh....in February it was Cole and Salih; November it was Throgmorton and Taylor;
August Mims and Thomas.
Throgmorton/Okay, so Bruce....totally appropriate for Bruce to be on. Does anybody else
wanna volunteer for that? (several talking)
Teague/What time does it start?
Fruehling/It's kinda totally up to...
Teague/I would suggest Wednesday the 29th. We do have the MPOJC meetin'but maybe after
that meeting? I like to be a trailblazer. (laughs)
Fruehling/ 6:00? 6:30? (several talking)
Teague/6:30. (several talking)
Fruehling/ So Bruce and....(several talking)
Teague/Awesome!
Throgmorton/Okay, so....(several talking) I think that means we're done with the work session.
Okay. All right. Thank you.
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