HomeMy WebLinkAbout2010-04-05 TranscriptionApril 5, 2010 City Council Regular Work Session Page 1
Council Present: Bailey, Champion, Dickens, Hayek, Mims, Wilburn, Wright
Staff Present: Helling, Dilkes, Laverman, Hargadine, Fosse, Karr, M. Johnson, Moreno,
Boothroy, O'Malley
Others Present: Shipley, UISG
Agenda Additions:
Hayek/ Why don't we get started. Marian, you had an item initially?
Karr/ Right, uh, Mr. Mayor, Council, we have, uh, one correction to the, uh, Consent Agenda,
and that's the March 29th complete description of the minutes. We had Council Member
Wright voting twice and Council Member Bailey not voting, so I've corrected that. Duly
noted, and then also we'll be adding an item to the agenda, and that'll be the resolution
approving the final plat of Walmart Subdivision, and we're going to add that as item 4.b.
And so we'll have that...you have the staff report and the resolution before you this
evening, but uh, Planning Director Jeff Davidson will be here tomorrow night to answer
any questions at that time.
Hayek/ Now the resolution included in our packet said 4.a.
Karr/ Okay. It's 4.b.
Hayek/ Is it 4.b? Okay. Okay (noise on mic) work session here. Uh, first up is the joint meeting
with, uh, HPC regarding energy efficiency and green issues. Why don't we start by
having everyone just introduce themselves and um, and we're going to probably have to
share some of these mics, so start with me and go this way. Matt Hayek, City Council.
Joint Meeting With HPC Energy Efficiency/Green Issues (IP2 - 4/1/10 IP):
Champion/ Connie Champion, City Council.
Bailey/ Regenia Bailey, City Council.
Shipley/ Jeff Shipley, University of Iowa Student Government.
Wilburn/ Ross Wilburn, City Council.
Wagner/ Uh, Frank Wagner, Historic Preservation Commission.
Kuecker/ Christina Kuecker, Historic Preservation Commission staff.
Bunting Eubanks/ Lindsay Bunting Eubanks, Historic Preservation Commission.
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Baldridge/ Tom Baldridge, Historic Preservation Commission.
Michaud/ Pam Michaud, Historic Preservation Commission.
McMahon/ David McMahon, Historic Preservation Commission.
Dickens/ Terry Dickens, City Council.
Mims/ Susan Mims, City Council.
Wright/ Mike Wright, City Council.
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Hayek/ Okay. Well, as you can see there's a memo from Christina in our, uh, packet at IP2. Um,
did you want to...did you have some opening comments (both talking) yeah!
Kuecker/ ...just give a little bit of background of why we're here, um...when the City Council is
discussing the Northside Neighborhood historic district, uh, last spring, some questions
came up about how energy efficiency and historic preservation went together, and if there
is any way that the City Council, or the Historic Preservation Commission could
incorporate energy efficiency and green initiative into the Historic Preservation
Guidelines that they were in the process of rewriting. Um, the...the Commission has
gotten to a draft state, nearly final draft stage, of the guidelines, and they have included in
the guidelines some pages that deal with energy efficiency and copies of those were
included in your packet. Um, I made better copies of those if anyone wants one, um... for
tonight. Um, and through our brainstorming we came to the point...to the conclusion that
many of the green and energy efficiency things that you can do to your house are often
smaller than you think, and the...most of them wouldn't even require coming to the
Historic Preservation for review. Um, but thought it was pertinent to put them in the
guidelines to still help homeowners as they're tackling those problems that a lot of people
feel that, well, their houses are less energy efficient...less energy efficient; however, um,
older homes in older neighborhoods are inherently green because of...those materials
have already been used, um, they keep people closer to the downtown, to the, um,
employment centers (noises on mic) reliance on automobiles, and keeping Iowa City with
a vital downtown that's stable and some place that people want to be. So...by
incorporating these, um, issues into the...into the guidelines, the Commission hopes that
these, that energy efficiency becomes something that's easier for people to recognize in
their older homes and older neighborhoods, um...there's a few things that people
immediately criticize historic preservation about when speaking of energy efficiencies,
and those are the idea of old windows are drafty and they can't...you can't do anything
with them in a historic district, and that's not true. The Commission has approved dozens
of window replacements within the past year, hundreds if you look through the...through
the history of the Historic Preservation Commission, and...often times those...well, all
the times, those are often...with energy, high energy-efficient windows. Um, and the
other thing that has...HPC has been criticized for is that, in the guidelines it states that it's
not recommended to put a solar panel on your front facade of your house, um...the...that
guideline and...is listed under the not recommended, not under the disallowed section of
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the guide, the handbook. So if somebody was to bring that forward, the Commission
would look at it on a case-by-case basis and how it would impact the historic integrity.
The Commission has never had any application for any solar panel on any elevation, so
it's hard to know what the...what would happen if that came in front of the Commission.
Um, and then the final thing that the Commission wants to put, has put in the guidelines
and wants to stress to property owners, contractors, um, people in the energy efficiency
fields is that they're always looking at, um, reviewing new materials...new materials, new
technologies and how those can be integrated into energy efficiency, and into historic
preservation, and they recommend anyone with a new idea to bring it to the Commission
for review and research and possible incorporation into the guidelines. Um, with that
background, I...the Chair of the Historic Preservation Commission, Lindsay, would...I
think she has a few other comments, and then we can (mumbled) a conversation between
the Council and the Commission. Thank you.
Hayek/ Thank you.
Bunting Eubanks/ Thanks, Christina. You guys have hired a wonderful staff member for us to
work with. I don't know if my mic is on...um, I just wanted to add that as a commission
we've really been trying to focus on making government more user-friendly. I feel like
there's a lot of, um, myths out there about historic preservation and that it really is much
more simple than what it appears, and um, with the new guidelines, um, as you can see,
there's visuals in the new ones. We're also going to try to put them on the web so that
people when they have a question about their home can click on exactly what it is they
have a concern about. So if they want to replace their windows, they go onto the web
site, they do their search, they click on windows, there's a visuals there for what's
allowed, what's not allowed, you know, egress requirements, everything that's in the
guidelines, just so it's easy to...to use those manuals. That's my, um, my first comment,
and we also have been working, uh, with some educational efforts to try to help the
citizens of Iowa City, uh, realize that this is possible, that we can save our older homes
and our older neighborhoods, and make our town truly a special and unique town. So...
Hayek/ Do...do any of the other Commission Members want to say anything before we...is there
anything else you guys would like to add before we open this up for...for discussion?
Okay, well, why don't we open it up for, uh, discussion. Just for some context for our
new members, this did come up during, uh, discussion about the Northside District. I
think at the time you folks were in the early stages of looking at this.
Bailey/ And it did come up from Council, and I'm wondering what your experience is hearing
from people who are working with you about their concerns about energy efficiency and
historic preservation, I mean, this was a...this was a comment brought from Council. Is
it a common belief out there that (noise on mic) doing historic preservation isn't energy
efficient? Is that something you hear a lot?
Bunting Eubanks/ Well, I think...normally we don't hear as much about energy efficiency. Most
of the things you do are insulation and things of that matter that aren't really under our
purview. We do...I think probably one of our biggest concerns is vinyl siding, things of
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that nature, where people don't understand maybe that that can actually harm their
property.
Bailey/ Right.
Bunting Eubanks/ And they see it as a cheap alternative, but it can trap moisture into the
building. Um, it's things of that nature that we get more, I think, complaints.
Bailey/ Sure.
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Bunting Eubanks/ I think people that buy older homes realize that they're going to have energy
problems if they don't insulate and...and do energy audits and find...does anybody else
have anything to add?
Kuecker/ I think the only real energy efficiency item that comes before the Council on, or on the
Commission on a regular basis is windows.
Bailey/ And I was glad to see that you mentioned the restoring porches and awnings, because, I
mean, that does make sense, and it sort of...put a light bulb on for me to, of course, that's
how older houses were designed, to... (both talking)
Kuecker/ ...and energy efficiency and historic preservation isn't just being discussed at the Iowa
City level. It's the theme of the National (mumbled) Historic Preservation has listed this
month's Historic Preservation Month to be green, so that's, um, it's a nationwide trend
that's going on right now.
Hayek/ One...one of the, um, comments I get from...I'll call them'green' builders or...or
restoration, uh, contractors is that, uh... at least in their... from their perspective, uh, a lot
of, uh... solutions that they would bring to bear to, uh, make a home more energy efficient
do run into roadblocks, and it's frustrating to them, uh, they have ideas about systems
approaches to...to a home and air flow and moisture flow and...insulation was mentioned
as...and I think that's an area where...where some frustration is felt. You know, they
can't...tearing out the inside is...is too invasive, uh, doing anything with the siding, um,
the existing siding on the outside is...you know, is either restricted or forbidden, and
they...they get stuck with...with the available options. Um, and uh, I...um, I guess my
question is, um, have you consulted with that demographic, or that constituency, locally,
as part of this, and if not, is there something that could involve them going forward with
this nearly final draft? Is there a means of vetting this with the people out in the field?
Bunting Eubanks/ I think that applications of that nature have never really reached us, is my
understanding. We've never had anybody come to us and say we want to take our siding
off, put on insulation, and then put the siding back on. That's probably my first comment
- nobody's ever come to us wanting that as a repair, so we've never actually handled the
issue.
Hayek/ Okay.
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Bunting Eubanks/ Um, I think there is misunderstandings about what we will allow and what we
won't allow. I noticed a lot of people will bend over backwards when they come to us,
thinking that we're very strict, when we're not.
Hayek/ Uh-huh.
Bunting Eubanks/ We're just citizens of the community as well who are trying to make
judgments, and I guess my second comment about that is, some things aren't really
suggested, because they will harm your home. So, if there are certain types of insulation
that will trap moisture, because they are older structures. They're designed a certain way,
and you should use their natural...like there are, there's cross ventilation, for instance, in
older structures. Use that as a natural way of, and if you try to do things that are more of
a modern homebuilders (mumbled) sometimes you end up hurting your home and
needing more repairs, instead of... so most of the guidelines sort of have an eye towards
that -making sure that the home still functions. You wouldn't want dry-rot. You
wouldn't want... you know, things of that nature, and so the way a modern house is built
energy efficient is going to look different than the way an older home is made energy
efficient. But, and in fact, the environmental waste is much less when you take an older
home and transform it into something energy efficient, versus building new all the time.
Kuecker/ To answer your specific question, I did talk to several contractors in town when we
were looking at writing this section of the guidelines, um, and then I also, uh, researched
a lot of national research done on old homes, and the way that they function, like
insulation and other (mumbled) things.
Hayek/ And the rationale behind my question is...is viewed more toward getting that kind of, the
buy-in we want on something like this, from the...from the contractors who are affected
by it, and I'm just wondering if there could be an opportunity to...to vet this through
them, uh, and solicit input before it's adopted. I...my sense is that that would help. I
mean, I agree that, you know, a lot of complaints are voiced and yet applications don't
come before you, to give you an opportunity to take something up and so, um, but
I'm...I'm just thinking in terms of, uh, of acceptance within the construction community
about this kind of (both talking)
Michaud/ ...I think we've been doing that for, uh, as long as the Commission's been in existence,
uh, which is, what, 15 years? So, and...and we're very fortunate to have Christina as our
current architect, so I mean, she's quite aware of, uh, options, uh, including blown
insul...insulation, Ty-Vek under, um, cement board, or Ty-Vek under new siding that's
compatible with the structure. So, um...I think we've done this, uh, for many years, and
uh, taken into consideration new technologies and feedback from newer contractors. So,
um, you know, we have had (mumbled) for probably five years at least (mumbled)
standards so I think we're doing that... doing that kind of (both talking)
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Hayek/ Well, and I...my point is not to...to focus on a particular building material or...or
technology. It's more just what the process, and....and to, because my sense is that that
sort of vetting, or opportunity for input, can go a long way (several talking)
Bunting Eubanks/ We also have a contractor on the Commission.
Hayek/ Yeah! And that's...which is important (both talking) which is good.
Bunting Eubanks/ He can tell you about the contractor community and (mumbled)
Wagner/ ...in those, in the neighborhoods where...where the guidelines apply, more often than
not it... it's not an issue. I think it's, but this Northside, I think there were some homes
where, quick before it became a (mumbled) we had to get this done, but... if... if
contractors want to talk about it and find out what's the best way to do it, I...we're more
than welcome to and actually, usually if you get a chance to explain how it's done
and... (mumbled)
Wilburn/ Well, and you bring up, um, a very salient point that, uh, you know, the Council
establishes historic, uh, or a conservation districts, and the nature of doing that means that
there are going to be certain guidelines, and, um, it's...it's great that you, uh, are open to
the input and have taken some of the input over the years, but um, if someone's just going
to disagree at the...the battle they're really wanting to fight is they didn't want it to
become a historic district in the first place, um, then it doesn't matter, uh, you know,
they're not...the process in some folks' mind will be flawed because the outcome wasn't
what they wanted, and the bigger picture is the Council has historically set some historic
districts and so again, if there are guidelines and regulations there are certain things that
are going to, uh, either damage the home or be against the nature of historic preservation.
Bottom line.
McMahon/ And I think the reality is that, uh, you know, there are tensions sometimes between
Historic Preservation and this, and the green movement, and it... it speaks to the rationale
of having a commission, because guidelines are fine, but as the Council knows,
guidelines and ordinances don't always, uh, aren't always the last word and uh, I think as
we began to, uh, explore this new era where, uh, the green revolution and Historic
Preservation, uh, combine in many ways, but sometimes are at odds, um, it speaks to the
need for judgment, and for different approaches and...and uh, I think looking at those
guidelines, but also taking acase-by-case approach, because I think in the final analysis
what we're looking for is the most livable city, and there's ways in which the green
revolution and Historic Preservation can, I think, work in concert for that, uh,
but...judgments have to be made sometimes in specific cases.
Wagner/ Maybe tie into that, one other thing -- it's not just the contractors. Also some of the
developers. Most recently (mumbled) two meetings or three meetings ago, in a
conservation district a local developer is taking down anon-conforming home in the
district and actually...and it's a duplex. The duplex that he's building is actually more
conforming to the district and with... it, and he worked with us on that, I mean, where
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(mumbled) putting cross-hatches in the skirting, you know, maybe do it this way, I mean,
we worked together with him and it's going to be a really a, really an improvement to the,
um, district. So...
Bunting Eubanks/ I think a lot of it comes down to just education, personally. I think there needs
to be more education. We have tried an outreach effort. We did have a virtual forum to
try to educate on why the guidelines, you know, not just here, here are the rules, but why
the rules. I think ultimately the rules are there to protect the property, so it's in the
interest of the owners to follow them, even if they don't understand. Like, you know, not
every owner understands why we don't allow vinyl siding or what (both talking)
Michaud/ ...sent out letters to people (both talking) in the neighborhoods, and also to about 300
contractors (both talking) so that was in February.
Bunting Eubanks/ ...last year, and it's on the web site now.
Michaud/ That was like 14 months ago that we did that, um, online forum, and uh, did the
outreach to 300 contractors, so, and really...I don't see much of a conflict, because that
new building, for instance, that was a lot of green materials. The Bethel, uh, Church, uh,
addition is going to be, you know, really extensive and that's...that was fine with us. We
worked that out.
Bailey/ Do you, um, do your education efforts all through, also through the Neighborhood
Associations, on a fairly regular basis, or how is...how does that partnership work?
Kuecker/ It's one of the goals of our Historic Preser...Historic Preservation Plan to be set up. So,
um...(several talking) ...Weber, all the fifth grade classes at Weber Elementary, the
Commission, along with Friends of Historic Preservation, will be holding a tour of
downtown architecture with those fifth graders. Not just the property owners, but also
the children in the neighborhood (mumbled)
Champion/ I want to just approach this a little bit differently because I live in a 110-year-old
house. And I'm telling you I've never had any problems with Historic Preservation,
working with my house, and my house is very energy efficient! Uh, in fact, I had a
energy audit and there...that they think my house is incredibly efficient, that my utility
bills are much lower than a lot of new construction, and I air condition and heat 24/7, 365
days a year so I think you've done a great job of knowing, letting people know what they
can and cannot do, and I've been before this commission, three or four times, and have
never had any problems working with you. So I just want to commend you on that. I
think people do misunderstand it. Um, there was an instance on Summit Street where a,
uh, contractor was going to build a new duplex, and I was on the City Council at the time,
and he came and he was irate that we were going to tell him what he could build and
couldn't build and he worked with Historic Preservation, and I think it was quite
argumentive. It wasn't a real pleasant situation. Uh, after the duplex was built, he told
me it was really beautiful and he loved it, so...(laughter) it's just a matter of learning and
connecting, I think, and I thank you very much for your work!
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Bailey/ I just have one other question about...you mentioned the National Trust for Historic
Preservation is...is doing some green stuff. How are we doing in view of nationally
with...with doing these sorts of things and talking about green and historic preservation, I
mean, how is that...are we trending well or are we...
Kuecker/ I think we're trending well. I think that a lot...a lot of the cities who are, um, who
really promote historic preservation, value historic preservation, are about in the same
area as Iowa City in the...trying to bring the green aspect in, and...not bring the green
aspect in, but show that what we're already doing is already green. So...
Bailey/ Are there any things that we can learn from the national sort of level, that we should
be...thinking about or incorporating or...that you would need Council's support?
Kuecker/ The issue of solar panels is coming up across the nation and what...what do you do
when those applications come forward, because it is becoming a more, um, affordable
technology than it used to be. And, um...for example, in Dubuque they did a test...a test
building of their city hall and put photovoltaic shingles on that house, on that building,
and it's a historic building, showing that it is possible to be able to do it sympathetically,
so that's one of the...Dubuque is one of the national leaders in historic preservation, so...
Bunting Eubanks/ Also speaking of Dubuque, we did have the opportunity to go there for a
conference, which was wonderful, and one of the things that that city does is that if you
had an interest in pursuing this further is they help homeowners to make those repairs.
They have a local bank that is willing to give loans for very low interest rates.
Kuecker/ I think it's 1 or 2%.
Bunting Eubanks/ One or 2% interest rate, on historic homes, so that they can repair, and then it's
basically like the fund, so once one person pays back in, then another person can take out,
and it's sort of, cause I think one of the frustrations of homeowners is how expensive it is
to redo these older homes, and that is something, and Dubuque has a lot of initiatives like
that, that I think are quite impressive, but... if the Council are interested in promoting,
you know, you've established the Historic District - in helping the citizens of that district
to, uh, fully use that.
Bailey/ It's a neat idea!
Bunting Eubanks/ Yeah, I think it's a wonderful idea, and it pays back into the system, so it
recycles. It's an account that will...
Bailey/ Well we certainly have partnerships for banks with our Economic Development
microenterprise, so it (several talking)
Wilburn/ ...similar to some of the housing projects we've had (mumbled) it's not that different,
yeah.
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Bunting Eubanks/ Could really revitalize, especially the Northside, which I think is probably
going to need a lot of focus after the designation.
Michaud/ Major renovations can be, uh, funded through, uh, a national trust grant (several
talking)
Kuecker/ ...there's state tax credits that are available for any property that's within a national
register district, um, not sure where that funding shook out after this legislative session...
Bailey/ It's still there; it was cut back.
Kuecker/ Yeah, it had been increased dramatically last year, and then I think...(several talking)
but for smaller projects it...it can be a check just issued to the homeowner.
Wright/ Just in general, uh, the Commission has been doing a really terrific job in the last few
years of education and outreach that was lacking for some time, uh, and I think those
tended to be the complaints that I have heard, not folks who have been dealing with the
Commission recently. Folks that dealt with it a few years ago and were left with a pretty
bad taste in their mouth, so I think you've done a very good job at...at trying to reverse
some of that, uh, and commend you for what you've done and...and are planning to do in
those areas, and in terms of just the energy efficiency, it's interesting to hear you say that
you've never had an application for a solar panel, cause that's one of the complaints I've
heard so often is, well, if it's a historic district I can't have a solar panel. Well, apparently
nobody's really wanted one very much. They just like the idea (several talking) and they
still could have one (several talking)
Bunting Eubanks/ I think a lot of people don't come to us because they don't think we'll allow,
um, sometimes we'll have people submit just tons of drawings, and they don't realize they
had this design consultant, paid for by the City. They don't have to go and hire, like, they
can come with what they want done and she will help them actually... Christina's actually
done architectural drawings for some of the buildings, and a lot of times they end up
better than what the homeowners originally...
Wagner/ ...we're looking forward to our first wind turbine on top (both talking)
Bailey/ Yeah, I was going to (laughter and several talking)
Michaud/ I think the off-sited solar panel issue is that once people start looking...I've had people
consult for me twice in 20 years that I've owned my house, and each time it's like, well,
you can put in a $5,000 solar panel and heat your hot water. You know, that's not going
to heat my house. It's only going to heat the hot water, so you know it's not really a cost
benefit thing for an older home. Maybe if you did the whole thing (several talking)
Bailey/ You're talking about panels and not photovoltaic shingles, right, which...which may be
something (several talking) I don't know...yeah.
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Bunting Eubanks/ And we do allow reshingling with, you know, regular (several talking)
Bailey/ Yeah, so that wouldn't even come (several talking) an issue.
Hayek/ In going back to my question about process, you guys mentioned 200 or 300 contractors
in an online forum or something...was that related to this work?
Kuecker/ It was more of an education outreach...
Bunting Eubanks/ It was about the guidelines.
Kuecker/ ...about the guidelines in general.
Hayek/ What kind of response did you get, uh, through that process?
Bunting Eubanks/ Um, I think we had some positive response, I mean, there was a lot of apathy
in general, um, and I don't know how many people actually watched us, but um, in case
anybody was interested, it is now posted on the web site, so that you can watch different
clips, and basically what it was, it was just a summary of the guidelines, sort of
explaining, and I do think we mentioned what was green or what wasn't, and...what was
a green way to go about, and just the fact that we are recycling our older homes, so that in
and of itself is green. But, yeah, you are welcome to go and watch us (laughter)
Hayek/ Yeah, that's good because we didn't have a single person appear at our hearing to adopt
the budget (laughter) but we'll hear about it the rest of the year (several talking)
Kuecker/ One other green, or green-esque thing that the Commission is part of, and they don't
even know it yet, but um, we're teaming with the Center for Sustainable Communities
and Friends of Historic Preservation to bring Bob Yapp, who's a nationally recognized
home restoration person to Iowa City in May to do a, uh, a workshop on repairing old
windows. So you will get invitations to that once it's all set up.
Wright/ That's terrific! I've got some 130-year-old windows that really need help! (laughter atld
several talking) They need more help than that!
Wagner/ ...you may want to reiterate the Longfellow...award.
Kuecker/ ...Longfellow neighborhood was recognized as the best "old house neighborhood" in
Iowa this year. (several talking)
Hayek/ We saw that; that's great! Well, anything else? Okay, well, thank you for taking (several
talking) appreciate it. Good luck with things. (several talking and laughing)
Wilburn/ ...to say! (laughter)
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Council Appointments:
Hayek/ Okay. Uh, Council appointments. We have...one.
Dickens/ I just picked up a packet for one of the Youth Advisory, for Regina. I found somebody
that's going to be willing to do it, so I'll have that probably in the next few days.
Hayek/ Okay.
Dickens/ It'll go...it won't be for this meeting (both talking)
Hayek/ Right.
Dickens/ But I did locate someone that was interested.
Hayek/ Good.
Wright/ So Susan and I don't have to share a microphone all night, could you slide down one,
Terry (several talking and laughing) (noises on mic)
Hayek/ All right, while we reconfigure here...the, uh, there is one application for the at-large
position on Youth Advisory Commission, Jerry Gao.
Champion/ Seems fine!
Wilburn/ (mumbled)
Hayek/ Everybody okay with that? (several responding) Okay! Okay, that brings us to agenda
items. Anybody have anything?
Agenda Items:
ITEM 12. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING TITLE 4, ENTITLED
"ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES," CHAPTER 5, ENTITLED
"PROHIBITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS," SECTION 8 ENTITLED
"PERSONS UNDER 19 YEARS OF AGE IN LICENSED OR PERMITTED
ESTABLISHMENTS: OF THE CITY CODE TO PROHIBIT PERSONS
WHO ARE UNDER THE "LEGAL AGE" (CURRENTLY TWENTY-ONE
(21) YEARS OF AGE) FROM ENTERING OR REMAINING IN
ESTABLISHMENTS WITH LIQUOR CONTROL LICENSES OR WINE
OR BEER PERMITS BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 10:00 P.M. AND
CLOSING. (PASS AND ADOPT)
Dickens/ There was some concern brought up to me about, since we're going to be voting on the
21 tomorrow, about possibly delaying the implementation till November, after the
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election. So I didn't know if there was...this is the time we wanted to bring it up for any
discussion.
Wright/ Not interested.
Champion/ Not interested.
Hayek/ Uh (laughter)
Dickens/ It was brought up to me, so I said I would bring it up and see if there was...enough
interest in doing that.
Hayek/ That was, uh, brought up to me before the second reading, um, and I thought about it
quite a bit, and reached my own conclusion that, uh, I wouldn't be interested in going that
route. But, we can talk about it tomorrow night. I mean...
Champion/ Somebody brought up to me that they thought it should not...it should only be
Monday through Thursday (laughter)
Wright/ That wouldn't be a problem to enforce at all! (laughter)
Dickens/ Well, it was an option to cut down on house parties during the first part of the week and
just doing it on Friday, Saturday (several talking)
Hayek/ My sense, if we believe this to be a problem, it needs to be addressed, that it should be
addressed, um (mumbled)
Champion/ That comes up next!
Wilburn/ It also would provide some information over the summer, uh, if there are concerns that
there's going to be some type of (mumbled) information to look at, um, for people to have
related to the election. I recall when the City passed the smoking ban, uh, although we
repealed it because of the Supreme Court action against, uh, the city of Ames, um, by the
Hospitality industry, there was a period of about a year, year and a half, of data that
showed actually, uh, part of the arguments against (mumbled) that there were going to be
flights of businesses to other areas and that, um, Iowa City was going to lose business,
and I believe, uh, during that year period where the, uh, smoking ban was implemented
locally, that, uh, there was actually a greater net loss of, uh, business due to a variety of
factors in some of our surrounding communities, uh, greater than Iowa City had had.
So...not a lot of (mumbled) just have the public take a look at how...it would, um, the
effects of that, that it would be a few months worth of information.
Mims/ Well, and I agree with Matt, I mean, if we're talking this is a public health and safety
issue, we should go ahead and do it now. I also don't like the idea potentially of delaying
it till November 15th and assuming that the vote supports the ordinance, then we're
implementing it in the middle of a school year. I think that just makes it much more
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difficult when we've had a new class of freshmen come in, have two or three months of
being used to going to the bars, and then all of a sudden we tell them they can't. So, I
think it's (both talking)
Champion/ That's not good!
Mims/ ...no, I would much rather implement it this summer. They come in with knowing what
the rules and regulations are when they get here, and if it gets overturned, then it gets
overturned, but I'd rather start with a stricter rule and go from there.
Hayek/ Okay, other agenda items? Hearing none...let's move on to the next one, which is, uh,
neighborhood enforcement of house parties. IP3 in your packet.
Neighborhood Enforcement Re: House Parties (IP3 of 4/1):
Wright/ Looks like we got all the heavy hitters (several talking and laughing)
Bailey/ Where's your gun, Doug? Everybody else has guns! (several talking and laughing)
Hayek/ Well, this, just for some context for, uh, for this. As I understand it, this was something
that was being worked on anyway by the Police Department, and I assume Housing. Um,
Council Member Bailey, uh, has talked about having this conversation, um, I'm not sure
you felt super-strongly one way or the other about exactly when it took place, but we
thought since we had an opportunity tonight to take...to discuss these issues that we
should just go ahead and do so. Um, do you want to walk us through kind of the points
there and we can open it up for discussion?
Hargadine/ Some of the things that were already underway were...also were, it was dialog
between the University and Iowa City, and um, whether or not 21-only passed, um, we'd
expressed, uh, a willingness on behalf of the University that they wanted to know more
about conduct involving their students off campus. So those things were already under
way, but dovetails nicely, um, if...if in fact we see more house parties as a result of 21-
only going in. Um, the experience of like...Ames, uh, reflects that we probably will see
more house parties, initially, but it will probably level off at some point. Um, we do have
a lot of house parties already. We've always had house parties. We'll probably always
have house parties in the future, but we do, uh, have a plan to address it. Uh, if it's a
rental property we already have a code enforcement ordinance in place. These two
gentlemen know a lot more about that than I do, uh, if there's questions about that, they'd
be willing to answer 'em.
Champion/ Have we had, um, experiences with bringing the landlord and the tenants in for
meetings? Can you tell me how those have worked out?
Johnson/ Um, as it's structured presently, um, after a first violation is issued at a rental property,
both the landlord, owner, manager of that property and the tenants are notified by
Housing Inspection Services, via letter, that a violation has occurred, and any subsequent
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violations will be addressed by calling those parties in to have a "code compliance
settlement agreement" meeting with a representative of HIS and the Police Department.
During that meeting, certain, uh, requirements are spelled out and, um, the tenants and,
uh, property owners or managers sign off on compliance with that, and sanctions can, um,
Doug can probably address those sanctions, uh, more clearly than I, but, um...failure to
abide by that, uh, can result in the imposition of sanctions, uh, through the rental
permitting process. They've been incredibly effective thus far.
Champion/ Good!
Boothroy/ And I would like to add too that part of the effectiveness has...has been at the, um,
most of the landlords are on board immediately. When they get that letter they...they
talk to their tenants. I was surprised that we had such good response, but I think that's
really important, so when they get that initial letter, they're contacting the tenant and
explaining the ramifications of...of...of situation, of what could happen in the future, and
uh, I think that's helped with our second offenses a lot, um...so...
Champion/ And (mumbled) uh, and my complaints on people who live in neighborhoods where
there are lots of parties is that the police just give them warnings rather than...can you
tell me how that's handled internally?
Johnson/ I...I would have to say that that has not entirely gone away, but it is our mission to see
it out the door, so that we have less and less of that occurring. I don't...I don't want to
suggest that every circumstance will be identical and you have to deal with every
circumstance the same way; however, what we found or what we have found since the
neighborhood housing task force convened in 2002 is that neighborhoods are generally
dissatisfied with wasting police resources going back to the same premise over and over
and over again, delivering warnings, and it's doing nothing to cause the behavior to come
to an end, so...um, I certainly know my mission from the Chief, uh, is...is to see that
practice, um, ushered out the door and, uh, I'm not saying that every situation should be
dealt with with the issuance of a citation, but I think clearly that's a direction that the
neighborhoods expect us to go to, more often than not.
Bailey/ I'm really glad to hear that, because that has been a chronic problem, at least in my
neighborhood. Um, that addresses the rental issue, but as you all know in the Northside,
and I think other areas of town, there are owner-occupied, that is to say a student is on a
lease, or is on the title, and so that doesn't come into play. So, beyond the normal sort of
issuing a citation for disorderly house, what are the other ways to address that? I mean,
I...I'm very concerned that there will be an increase in house parties, even if it's the spike
initially. I mean, I'm...I think neighbors...I've heard a lot of concern about that, at least
from my neighbors, and so...how are we going to address that?
Hargadine/ Our main...tool is enforcement. Beyond that, um, kind of run out of tools. Um, it,
you know, the exception being if it's a University student, then, uh, forwarding that to the
UI for sanctions as well, um,'that's...that's anew concept that...
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Bailey/ But that's not in place yet. Their code of conduct isn't yet in...
Hargadine/ We're already forwarding information to them.
Bailey/ Oh, okay.
Hargadine/ What they do with it is sort of up to them, but um, that uh...that was based on a
handshake, not necessarily a code of conduct.
Dickens/ What is the current charges that you file for, as far as what are the costs of the
citations? Is it a...
Johnson/ That's a very good point, um, I was going to speak to. One of the provisions that exists
within the code compliance settlement agreement that was adopted when this ordinance
was adopted was that upon a second violation, um, when...when they are called to the
code compliance meeting, that part of my responsibility is if we have a third violation to
notify the City Attorney's office and seek, um, the imposition of the maximum fine on
this, to create financial disincentive to, um, exhibit that kind of behavior. Um, whether
we will get those people to an audience so they can be notified of that or not, I think we
can still make that same request. What we'll be missing is...is the filing of a municipal
infraction as part of violating that code compliance agreement, if it's anowner-occupied
property.
Bailey/ See, I think some of our most chronic, um, house party residences are not rentals, at least,
well, I'm thinking of my street.
Champion/ Are they, do the parents own the houses?
Bailey/ Maybe parents, and sometimes the...sometimes the student does.
Wright/ ...and the parents both.
Champion/ ...somebody notify the parents, if their name is on the deed.
Bailey/ If it's a double...yeah, if there are two names on the deed that (both talking) but...but I
can think of two right away that are not rentals, that are problems, and noisy!
Mims/ Eleanor, from your perspective are there things that we could do with our ordinances that
might strengthen our hand in terms of owner-occupied houses that are continual
problems? I don't need an answer right now, I mean, I realize you might need to look at
things, but I think that's one thing that we should look at.
Dilkes/ Well, I was going to interject and just tell you what the fine situation is now for a
disorderly house charge, which is what they...what the Police would be charging. It's
currently what we call an unscheduled fine of up to $500 and the discretion of the, uh,
judge. Then a...plus court costs and surcharge. Uh, surcharge is a 35%, um, charge on
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whatever fine is levied, and the court costs are $60. The legislature very recently
increased the, um, City's ability to set a maximum fine up to $625. So, there are a couple
things you could do to make the penalty more severe, um, and that is to actually set the
fine as opposed to leaving it within the judge's discretion.
Champion/ Perfect!
Dilkes/ Or to increase the maximum fine that the judge could impose.
Hayek/ Do we have any data on what judges have tended to do with these charges?
Dilkes/ I think judges do look at the particular circumstances and, um...you know, I think...I
think it just depends on the circumstances. I think if it's a second or subsequent offense,
you're going to get the judge being, um, less lenient. Um, we...you know, depending on
the circumstances that makes a difference in what our recommendation would be, as well.
But it is...it's not...it's not up...set up to be a $500 fine. It's set up to be 'up to' a $500
fine. So we certainly don't take the position with disorderly house charge that the fine
should be $500.
Hayek/ In the event of a...of a conviction in, the imposition of an actual fine...with respect to an
owner-occupied house, that would become a judgment, would it not...that would...that
would attach to the house?
Dilkes/ If it was...if it was a judgment against the owner of the home and it was unpaid.
Hayek/ Right.
Dilkes/ I mean, if it was unpaid, yes.
Hayek/ So I mean that's one way of getting to anowner-occupied house, if the judgment is
against the owner of that house. Now if it...if the ticket is to someone else, you got an
issue.
Dilkes/ Typically it's going to be, I mean, it has to be someone in control of the home who was
issued the ticket. Um...whether that's a tenant or an owner or a manger, it kind of
depends on the circumstances.
Hargadine/ Just thinking this through since you've asked it, um, there's nothing that prevents us
from contacting the owner, uh, and having a discussion with them. Uh, it's just not...it
would be outside of the code compliance, but we do that with, um, fraternities and
sororities sometimes when we're not getting listened to appropriately. We'll contact their
student advisors and, you know, request them to take care of it or we will. And,
sometimes that's very effective. So, um, that's not to say we couldn't reach out and...and
talk to that homeowner that if you continue to do this, we're going to be arresting more
and more, especially the patrons that you're having in there. So I think there's...
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Bailey/ Well, I think it's something to bear in mind, because we know that some of the... some of
the residences aren't all rentals, that are chronic problems.
Hargadine/ There's underage drinkers there. If there's public intoxication...there's more and
more things that we could do to take care of the problem, in addition to the disorderly
house.
Bailey/ So that leads to another question that I've heard from people is, so you arrive at a house
party and...the call was probably on noise, that there's a complaint, and...and in some of
our neighborhoods there will be complaints, and in others there won't, because they're
predominantly student neighborhoods, and uh, so...you arrive there but how are you
going, I mean, you won't have authority to gain entry necessarily to address some of
those other safety concerns that people have raised. I mean, how do you proceed with
those kinds of things being addressed?
Johnson/ I think generally, speaking, we find fewer circumstances where we do not have
compliance from those who answer the door than circumstances when we do face
resistance. That's not to say that it won't turn the other direction, uh, no one knows that,
but...on those occasions where we don't, then we sort of have to work backwards to
make the case, and it's not, um, impossible to do, but it's certainly more difficult to do.
And...and we've successfully made cases going that direction, as well. We would be
faced with a very similar circumstance if that became...the theme.
Champion/ Do...do you ever do house stings, like...like the bootlegging, like the stuff
downtown when you send somebody in to, you know, try to buy a drink. Do you ever
send somebody into a house to gain admittance for $5.00?
Johnson/ Yes.
Champion/ Oh, great! (laughter) I love that!
Bailey/ And then, another concern...I've heard is, I mean, certainly in our neighborhood, and
perhaps in others, we can generally count on it quieting down around 11:00 or midnight
as people go, you know, they've pre-gamed in the neighborhoods and then they go
downtown. Um, that probably won't be the case and it will typically escalate in the
neighborhoods, um, as people stay up later and consume more it tends to get louder. So,
but they wonder through the neighborhoods, so there's not a fixed location necessarily
where the noise is, and that can be...that's very disruptive and very disturbing, and um,
very concerning to a lot of neighbors. There's no real way we can address that besides
patrolling neighborhoods, is there, and what do you intend to do, or do you intend to do
anything to address that...that concern?
Johnson/ That certainly is...excuse me, that's the most effective means of, uh, intervening is by
increasing the patrols in the neighborhoods. That being said, we don't know the dynamic
downtown.. .
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Bailey/ Right.
Johnson/ ...how it will be, nor do we know the dynamic in the neighborhoods, and we're going
to have to reach some sort of balance. Um, my encouragement would be for residents of
neighborhoods to contact us. The behavior is not attached to a home. It isn't a disorderly
house setting, but it's certainly not attached to a home with regard to disorderly conduct.
For creating that disruption, um, to the distress of the neighborhood.
Bailey/ Well, we could just call you at a regular time every night and say 'patrol Van Buren and
Church,' I mean (laughter) I think you'd be able to see disorderly conduct, on a fairly
regular basis, so...
Dickens/ (mumbled) I know when I rode with a couple of the officers, we went to a disorderly
apartment and knocked on the door. No one would answer, I mean, and they all got quiet
and they wouldn't come out. Now, what is the recourse on that, going back to the person
that owns the building and getting the names on the lease or...how was that handled?
Johnson/ That is somewhat consistent with the working backwards. It's more, um, time
intensive. It's not as immediate a remedy, but generally what happens is that the officers
will, uh, identify the residents and if they can sustain a statement of probable cause, we'll
go back and get an arrest warrant and maybe tomorrow morning we'll show up at 8:00
and make that arrest, as opposed to issuing the summons right then and there.
Bailey/ Well, I know I'm on the opposite of all of you on this particular vote, but I hope that
we're all on the same side when we think about our neighborhoods and what we're trying
to promote in some of these neighborhoods, and the potential for working against
ourselves with some of these issues, that we may be causing. I'm hoping that you're
right, that this is a red herring and that house parties will not increase. It'll be just as it is,
but I'm not...I don't...I don't think that that's the case. So I'm hoping that we can all
really support these neighborhoods that we want to get people living in, and... and we
want some change and owner-occupied in these neighborhoods. Otherwise we have
programs that are working in conflict, and that doesn't make any sense.
Mims/ No, I think we're all on the same page in terms of wanting to, you know, support the
neighborhoods and, you know, I think as the Chief has said, you know, we've always had
house parties, we probably always will have house parties, but I think all of us are
realistic in expecting we may see a spike, and we have to really get out and address those
and, you know, it complicates a lot of things. You talk about people roaming around out
there and causing disruptions. I sit here and almost chuckle to myself because, you
know, last summer that was the southeast side that, you know, the issue, was different. It
wasn't college-aged kids drinking, but it was the exact same complaint, that they were
having these people out there in the middle of the night waking them up when they were,
you know, trying to sleep, so we've got multiple areas where we're going to have, you
know, still downtown, yet we have many neighborhoods that need to be patrolled (both
talking)
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Bailey/ Well, downtown is a neighborhood as well and we can't overlook that, and I don't think
anybody on the Northside has the illusion, I mean, we live there. We know what we live
with, and there's a certain level of tolerance and live and let live and if house parties are
quiet, they're, I mean, we talk to our neighbors. There generally aren't concerns or
complaints, but if it spikes or becomes, you know, sort of rampant, I think then we've got
some problems and we will have some people who will get a little fed up.
Wilburn/ And I think that there are many in the community, in particular those that are working
in efforts that relate to treatment and, uh, in particular treatment, um, that view what's
going on as working in concert with their efforts in terms of prevention (mumbled)
treatment so...
Champion/ I think the best thing for the neighborhoods will be that the University is going to use
neighborhoods as...I'm not sure what they call it, but they'll use it as part of their student
discipline policies.
Wright/ (several talking) code of conduct I think that will make a huge difference.
Champion/ Right! Make a huge difference. It's not been done in this town before, that I know
of, but I had a nephew caught drinking and he was out of school the next day, I mean, I
don't expect they're going to be that rapid here, but I mean, he was gone for the semester.
I mean, some schools it's not even tolerated, period. As a minor.
Wright/ And I think one of the things in terms of...house parties in general, I think we have to
make sure the neighborhoods do is, or the neighbors do, is...I'm humming or (noise on
mic) uh, one thing we have to have the neighbors do is actually report a problem if there
is one and not grumble about it and just...chose to live with it. (several talking) I...I'm
surprised though when I run into people who don't.
Bailey/ Yeah, I agree with you.
Wright/ They'll bend my ear about how bad it was, and well, did you call? No!
Hayek/ And apropos that issue, to what extent can these developments be coordinated through a
neighborhood liaison and the...means by which we fortify and educate those
neighborhood groups to do more policing essentially, and...and make more phone calls.
Bailey/ I think some outreach before the...before June 1st would be beneficial to some of those,
the close-in neighborhoods.
Hayek/ I mean, is that... is that in the works? Is Marcia doing anything on that?
Boothroy/ Well, I have a meeting with the Northside on the 19th, so we could take some
information on the 19th, um, I think that's a 6:00 meeting. So that would be an early
opportunity to get information out, uh, at least, you know, work with Sam and...and Matt
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here and get something, uh, to that meeting so it could be distributed and maybe also talk
to Marcia.
Hargadine/ When she saw this on the agenda, she immediately contacted me and said what's
going on? Do I need to be there? So she's very much involved and interested and, uh,
whether it's with newsletters or, um, you know, Jorey Bailey has been going to a lot of
the associations and putting the word out, as well, so...
Hayek/ But I mean, as long as we continue to largely rely on a complaint-based system, um, the
complaints have to be registered, and that's why I think these neighborhood groups have
got to (several talking) to make the calls.
Bailey/ ...question where patrols come in play and is that, I mean, is that going to be proactive
or...I mean...I mean...we're increasing patrols. I mean, is that going to be a proactive, if
you see a house party, then you're stopping, I mean, not to say that I should just wait and
not call it in but...
Johnson/ I think we're going to have to...we're no longer constrained by the requirement to have
a resident or non-law enforcement source as that complaint, and some years ago we, uh,
added the provision that officers can initiate that contact, and frankly I think we have to.
Bailey/ Good!
Johnson/ It's a different circumstance now, and I think it...it drives that sort of change in...in
direction for us.
Bailey/ And I don't want to set up unrealistic expectations from citizens that...that complaints
are no longer necessary, but I think it would be good for them to know that there will be
some more of that, that (mumbled)
Wilburn/ It was my understanding a few years back when some of those changes happened that,
uh, law enforcement had told us that, uh, problem parties call attention to themselves
and...
Bailey/ That's true! The best way to get somebody to be quiet is to suggest that perhaps you
want to take it inside before I call, and usually that quiets it down for the whole
neighborhood. I mean, there's still a party going on. It's just quiet, and that's more the
neighborhood...neighbors concern.
Hayek/ Okay. Anything else on this point? Thanks, gentlemen, for appearing tonight (several
talking) Next item is fluoridation of water, which is, uh, IP4.
Fluoridation of Water (IP4 of 4/1):
Fosse/ Good evening.
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Hayek/ Hi, Rick.
Fosse/ Thanks for having us tonight. Um, a few weeks ago, uh, at public comment section of the
Council meeting we had some concerns raised about fluoridation, and response to that
you asked that we put it on a work session so that you can learn more about it, um, so
that's what we're doing here tonight. As we were preparing for this evening, uh, we
found that it really breaks down into two basic questions, and those being, uh, is
fluoridation something that we want to continue to do, uh, with our water, and secondly,
uh, if...if so, are we doing it correctly. Now the second question is an easy one for us to
answer in house because that's what we do (noise on mic) talk about that tonight. Uh, the
first question is it a practice we want to continue is...is something that's really beyond
our expertise, uh, so Ed is...as, seeks the opinion of some of the design professionals, for
which fluoridation and public health is their area of expertise. So with that introduction,
I'll, uh, turn it over to Ed to share with you what we've learned so far.
Moreno/ Thanks, Rick. Um, I guess as the superintendent of water, I'm responsible for the water
system in Iowa City, and part of that is the fluoridation system that...takes the natural
content from the raw source and elevates it to the optimal, uh, dose, or the optimal, uh,
concentration, which is one part per million. Um, we've been receiving calls and
concerns from, uh, some citizens about fluoridation lately. You have also. And, uh, we
have answered all the questions that have been posed to us, either through emails or on
phone calls, or on even personal visits. Um, I guess, uh, as Rick stated, you know, is part
of, uh, the questions that, uh, I couldn't answer, or that I didn't feel I could, uh, we
enlisted some experts in the field. One was Dr. Levi who is University of Iowa
researcher who is an expert on fluoridation, uh, the State Health Department, uh, dental
director and local, uh, director of health, the Health Department, um, Doug Beardsley,
and the letters they wrote are...are in your packet, and they kind of summarize their
feelings and... and thoughts on the more technical issues, uh, about fluoridation, uh,
research issues, uh, with several coming up. Um, I guess we're here to answer any
questions that you may have about, uh, fluoride, um...get the answers if we can't.
Champion/ I really appreciate all the, um, experts you sought out and have them correspond with
us, because I think that's very valuable information. Uh, I personally have had several
dentists contact me who are very disturbed that we're even going to discuss it! (laughter)
...they feel it's very, very important for youth and older people, and they're concerned
about, um, dental care for the less...less privileged in Iowa City. Um, so I do appreciate
the, um, letters, pro and con, but appreciate the experts (noise on mic).
Shipley/ Uh, how does, uh, hydro-fluorosilicic acid that we're putting in our water, how does it
defer from the natural occurring calcium fluorides that are found in the earth's crust?
Moreno/ How does it compare?
Shipley/ How does it defer, what's different about 'em?
Moreno/ Um, well...just fluoride is like a natural mineral...
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Shipley/ Fluorine's the element, right (both talking) and fluoride's the ion?
Moreno/ Yes, yes. Fluoride is a natural element that is in nature, uh, in the Iowa River and uh, in
our primary raw source, which is a (can't hear) wells. It's about .23 parts per million.
We raise that up with, uh, a compound called hydro fluorosilicic acid to 1.0. Um, the
compound that we use is, uh, you know, follows the standards of the National Sanitation
Foundation, uh, the EPA, and the DNR, so it's like, uh, sanctioned for, uh, potable
drinking water. So that's what we use to bring it up. They're the same thing.
Shipley/ Essentially, okay. Um...I have a whole list of questions that I doubt we'll be able to get
into them, um, I was kind of hoping that Dr. Levy or Dr. Russell would be here. I think
that's unfortunate they're not, and again; um, please don't take any of these questions as a
personal attack on you. I mean, we had a great time at the water plant, and again, I
appreciate all the work you've been doing. Um, but I guess one of the first questions I
have is, um, I mean, how can we be so...essentially the way I view this policy is we're
prescribing a... a medicine, this hydro-fluorosilicic acid to have a medical benefit to the
whole community. And so we're putting it in our water, and so the hypothesis that we're
essentially proving is, uh, fluoride put in the public water prevents cavities and is
perfectly safe. Uh, I guess the first question I have regarding this is how...can we be so
confident that we could prescribe this treatment to people we've never met, whose
medical background we've never analyzed. How can we be confident, uh, in...in our, I
mean, I just...thinking if...if we did this with other simple things, not hydro-fluorosilicic
acid, but if we said, you know, if a medical practitioner said, uh, to someone whose
medical background he did not, wasn't familiar with, you know, take this sugar, these
peanuts or this penicillin, there could be disastrous effects. So I guess what makes this
particular policy different that it can fit everyone so well, and that there won't be any...
Bailey/ But there certainly are options. If you chose not to drink Iowa City water as...as we did
many years ago because it was a little heavy on the chlorine, um, there are options for
you. So if you have concern or objection, you have option...regarding consumption.
(several talking) Bottled, it's bottled water.
Shipley/ I haven't researched this, but uh...
Bailey/ We purchased bottled water is what we did.
Shipley/ But someone I'm associated with said he did some research into water filters and that
the molecule is too fine, that even a Brita filter would not remove any of it.
Champion/ Well I thought I read it did.
Bailey/ Well we got delivered water, and so, I mean, it...it took out what I wanted it to take out.
It didn't have the taste, so I think that there are options for people who don't want to
consume that.
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Shipley/ But then I mean, this is still...that's another question I have is, uh, I mean, when we
bathe, does this hydro-fluorosilicic acid (mumbled) pronunciation, uh, I mean, is it
absorbed in the skin when we bathe?
Moreno/ Well, um, maybe let me comment on the first question.
Shipley/ Okay.
Moreno/ Uh, we're governed under the EPA. There's a limit on fluoride of four parts per million.
Uh, our...the fluoride level in Iowa City water is a recommended level, which is 1.0. It
maybe could make it analogous to chlorine. We also put chlorine in the water and that's
used to disinfect the water. Uh, you don't put excess chlorine in. There's also standards
on that. So it's like...it's almost like, uh, you know, you put in the amount that's correct
for the result that you want, and you don't go over, uh, but you hit it, and that's what we
do. That's my j ob to make sure we hit it, and we do.
Shipley/ I guess...well (both talking) chlorine is a disinfectant, but this...this uh, fluorosilicic
acid is going into the body for a specific physiological purpose, so on the scale of things,
this is a little more, um...I guess, um...what were...
Wilburn/ If I could interrupt for a minute, just going back to your...the premise, part of the
premise that you started with, that we're saying that this is perfectly safe. Uh, there are a
few things that, uh, there may be few things that any physician would say are perfectly
safe, thus some of the guidelines by Centers for Disease Control, etc., etc., and the
Municipal associations, all that, uh, there are safer parameters again based on the desired
effect that you wish to have. Um...the...um, the parallel that...or one of the parallels
that I was going to draw, uh, you brought it up yourself in terms of, uh, the disinfectant,
uh, chlorine. Now, uh, the City does where we can take into consideration input based on
the standards that we have to, or the standards that we chose to use, based on public
health factors, and can make some changes where we can. For example, if I'm correct,
we don't use pure chlorine anymore. We use chloramine? Is that correct?
Moreno/ Uh, no.
Wilburn/ Or we used to use chlorine, right?
Moreno/ Yes, we're designed to use chlorine, and right now we are using chlorine, and
eventually we'll phase into that.
Wilburn/ Okay, um, but wasn't part of that change in terms of the taste of the water. So that's an
example where the City did take some input and when they designed the new...the new
process made some adjustments. Another parallel that I was going to draw, uh, as a...in
particular a locally governmental, uh, body where, uh, we don't have, uh, physicians or
researchers, to my knowledge, um, in this particular area, uh, there...there are certain
standards and um, entities that you are going to have to look to, and it's been, uh, tradition
in this community to also look at our public health officials, both here and at the state
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level. Um, and uh, it's not difficult to find...uh, people, and in some cases even experts
who are going to disagree with your experts. In fact, uh, the concept of childhood
immunizations that we require, uh, and based upon recommendations on, uh, from our
public health officials, you certainly can find people who disagree with the concept of
forcing someone to inject something into their...into their body. I'm not trying to be
insensitive to that, but we as a...local governmental body have to look at some standards
in industry, municipal government, um, and municipal water sources, based upon, um,
some generally accepted practices, based on researchers and entities that, uh, that do
manage and provide guidelines and acceptable guidelines. I don't think, uh, you know,
um, I guess I'll just...I'll just stop with that right there.
Mims/ I would concur with basically everything Ross has said, I mean, when this was first
brought up, I mean, I knew basically nothing about fluoridation of water, other than it had
been started years ago to help with tooth decay, etc., and use toothpaste with fluoride in
it, etc., and read some of the initial stuff and said, I don't know, maybe we should be
taking a second look at this, and having read everything we've been presented with and
then with the stuff you have gotten, Ed, from people, I'm right back where you are, Ross.
I think, you know, relying on the experts that we have, the Iowa Public Health
Department, our local Health Department, still even CDC saying that, you know, this is
one of the ten best things that's ever been done in this country in terms of overall public
health, and not seeing, in my mind, not seeing enough significant statistical data to say
there is harm. I'm not willing to make a change in where we're at.
Bailey/ Well, and I...
Wright/ (several talking) it's not tough to find research that disagrees with the value of
fluoridated water, uh, but when I...I did a little extracurricular research, and it's pretty
widely accepted through public health officials across the country that fluoridation, it is a
good thing, um, the...just the sheer number of folks that we have as our...as our public
experts who are still agreeing... it's a value, what we have here from our... our local and
state officials, uh, you know, I agree with, it probably is good to take a look at this
because if nothing else we all know a little bit more about it now than we did before, but 1
don't see...any consistent compelling, uh, reasons to change our policy right now.
Wilburn/ Wasn't it just, uh, a year or two ago there was a change in Iowa state law requiring, uh,
some adjustments in terms of, uh, dental and dental care, improved dental care for
children in the school district? Does anybody...I remember getting the notice from
the...from the school nurses about that, and that's...um, I mean, that's one indicator that,
um, in... in some ways, uh, dental care needs of citizens in our... in our state that are not
being met and...
Bailey/ But we know that even locally, because I mean, the Free Med, the dental clinic is, I mean
(several talking) and I certainly, I didn't ignore the concern that was brought forth about,
yeah, and people are...we are...causing people who drink tap water to ingest a particular
substance, and I really...I read all this and...and did some, also some online...sort of
research, and um, came to similar conclusions, that this is a...a general public good
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and...and a responsible thing to be doing, in light of...of some of the opinions that we've
seen, especially with dental health, and...and there are options for those who are
concerned. That's...that's the conclusion I came to, that...that there are indeed options if
one is concerned about ingesting this. Um, and I think that that's...that's the balanced
interest, that...that I always try to look for when you're talking about a government
policy.
Shipley/ Going back to what you hit on, Mike, um, I mean, yeah, the CDC says it's the, you
know, one of the greatest things this century. A lot of the nationally renowned experts
are behind it, including those in our community, but then you go across the Atlantic
Ocean, continental Europe has rejected this policy. The Supreme Court of Amsterdam
said it was illegal. So there's certainly no worldwide consensus on this, and it is a policy
that affects us several times a day, and not even with just drinking the water -with
bathing, washing our clothes, watering our plants, I mean... so, and my role in this when I
approached this, when I reached out to Mark Amberg a few months ago, I just, you know,
I thought there was some interesting questions, and I thought they should be raised, and
hopefully answered and this issue put to rest, and everyone knowing that the water's in
safe hands. Um, but I mean, I... going back, changing gears again, um, is... is, there are a
lot of compelling questions, and I'm really happy for the opportunity to discuss these.
One of the most compelling things I came across in my research, uh, was an article, uh,
published in the Journal of Evidence Based Dental Practice, uh, in 2006, uh, about the
precautionary principle and essentially it concludes, um...it talks about other methods of
fluoride delivery, um, and one...I'll just kind of go through these real quickly. Um, it
talks about the benefits of topical application versus swallowed, which is even the CDC
concurs that the topical application is better for the teeth than ingesting it. Um, do you
have any opinion on that? Um, is it you tend to agree with that or...
Moreno/ I don't know if it's better, but you know I...I get a fluoride varnish when I go to the
dentist, yes.
Shipley/ Okay.
Champion/ The problem with that is, it does work. There's no question about it, and the Peace
Corps has been doing it for 30 years, uh, in countries that don't have municipal water or
don't have fluoridation. However, it has to be given, it has to be managed right. You
have to...a person has to give this to the child and watch them rinse their mouth and
make sure they don't swallow it, so that's an impractical solution. It might be fine for me
and my kids because I could afford to buy it and I would certainly administer it properly,
but the administration of it properly is very difficult and...
Shipley/ I think going on with what you're saying, straying from what I was talking about, uh, I
mean, I think monitor and dosage is...for medicine, very important when you have
fluoride being ingested from not just the water, but from I mean soda pops, anything
made, uh, within a fluoridated municipality is going to have an extra dose of fluoride in
it, so monitoring the dosages, um, and especially with, I mean, I have...I'll just hand this
out, uh, right now. Uh, this was on the ADA's web site, um, the ADA's recommendations
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for fluoride, uh, kits, and it says birth to six months they shouldn't have any...any
fluoride. It says none. Um, if you'll pass those out I'd appreciate it. Uh, so it seems like
the ADA endorsed policy of fluoridation is directly in conflict with the recommendation
that developing children, infants, should not have this substance, and then again going
back to the dosage, uh, one of the...this might have been actually the link you gave me, is
there's concern that, uh, dehydrated baby formula, um, that's made with fluoride, when
they dehydrate it the fluoride remains in it, so when they add it with fluoridated water,
you have double the dose of fluoride, and again, with medicine, I mean, what other
medicines exist where you can just double the dosage and there would be no
consequences? And so those are the types of questions that I...I, you know... as stewards
of this policy I think we need to...to address. Did you get (mumbled) it was on the ADA
web site. It was 1994...it was dated, but it, you know, right at birth to six months, you
know, no fluoride. If you guys want this (mumbled)
Mims/ Well, it's also why... many of the reasons that they encourage breast feeding, for so many
reasons, I mean, not just fluoride, but...gazillion other reasons.
Shipley/ But then again if... for (garbled) lower-incomed communities, they would be the hardest
hit and the...the least likely to be able to afford the fluoride for infants, you know, in
children.
Champion/ They'd be most likely to breast feed.
Mims/ They can't afford the formula.
Champion/ Can't afford formula -- it's very expensive!
Mims/ Yeah. I would respectfully suggest that since it sounds like a majority of the Council is
not interested in changing our policy, that since we have a long agenda tonight that we
move on.
Shipley/ Well, then, if that's, I mean, would there be an opportunity to...to, another opportunity
for the questions for the (mumbled) to be answered.
Hayek/ Well I think...I think, uh, I think we need to decide Rick's first question, do we want to
continue, and...and uh, as Council Member Mims identified, but...but if the answer is do
we want to...if the answer to do we want to continue is yes, meaning no change to our
protocol, then uh, under...under our policy we would drop this as an issue, unless three
Council Members want to add it back to our work session.
Shipley/ And even if we do drop it as an issue, uh, I still think it would be important to kind of
flush out and acknowledge some of these other concerns for the community members.
Hayek/ Well, in the (both talking) right, but the process we follow for any issue is to allow for
public input through presentations during open comments, or through emails and letters
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and things of that nature, and we have received a lot of stuff to date and can continue to
receive on...on this issue or any other.
Shipley/ And I guess just one last question before you move on, because I understand everyone's
busy and I'd hate to take up all your time. Um, if there is hypothetically I mean a ballot
initiative, uh, and they put on the ballot, uh, do you support putting hydro-fluorosilicic
acid in the water? And say it doesn't reach a majority but it gets 40%, 30% and 25%, I
mean, what represents a minority of opinion that, you know, we would...that deserves
protection and deserves access to these public utilities?
Hayek/ I'm not sure we can answer that without seeing what exactly comes forward and...and
that (mumbled) if you're talking about some sort of, uh, initiative to have us, uh, change
how we operate, I'm not even sure an initiative, uh, could be used to (both talking)
Wilburn/ Even...even if it could, it still, uh, the majority would win. At the ballot, if it...if it
doesn't pass, it doesn't pass. And there are opportunities, even if the Council, uh, chooses
not to continue, uh, a discussion on any issue in the community for those who are pro and
con, which is for example, uh, there wasn't enough, uh, support, uh, related to, um, urban
chickens, and there are certainly...there certainly have been forums and there was a
movie shown, and people on both sides continued the dialog in the community, so there
is that opportunity for...for that concept to continue to be discussed in the community.
Shipley/ Well, that was another one of the, uh, real problems that...that (garbled) I guess, uh, Dr.
Levi, you know, would not, um, entertain any sort of discussion or debate on the issue, so
I think they're kind of frustrated where they meet a brick wall and nobody wants to talk
about it and...
Hayek/ That's inherit to trying to set up a debate and inviting people to it, I mean, you may or
may not attract to...to the table, but we have to follow a process whereby if three of us
are interested in at least looking at an issue, and...and we were in response to your
concerns and that of others sufficient to place this on the agenda, cause staff to spend
time on it, and solicit input from outside. That's what leads to a discussion like tonight
and...and we face so many issues that we have to tackle these the way we have tonight,
and then make a decision about whether to proceed or not, and we're deciding not to, but
that still allows plenty of mediums, you know, avenues for... for advocacy going forward.
So...okay, well, um...does not appear that there is, uh, a majority, uh, interested in
discontinuing this practice, so...we will continue to rely on Ed's statement that as to the
second part, we are doing it correctly. Do we want to take afive-minute break? (several
talking)
Fosse/ Thank you.
Hayek/ Thanks for a good discussion! (BREAK)
Mid-Year Budget Status Report (IP6 of 4/1):
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Hayek/ Okay, next item is our debt service levy policy, IPS. Mr. O'Malley.
Helling/ Mr. Mayor, we, um...
Hayek/ Mr. Helling, what am I missing?
Helling/ Happened to land this way on the, uh, on the agenda, uh, if you want to talk about the,
uh, report first, that was the item that was requested first, that we put on for.
Hayek/ Oh, the budget to actual?
Helling/ It doesn't make any difference, but I thought you might want to (both talking)
Hayek/ Sure! Let's do that.
Helling/ (mumbled) debt policy.
O'Malley/ Um, we like to put out a budget to actual comparison report every three months, and
the first three months of the year it's usually not much to talk about, because...we haven't
gotten our taxes in yet so...that's 50% of our revenue stream is...is really absent. So then
we usually try to hone in on the first six months because by that time we've had our
budget amendment. We've also started the budget process. And, uh, we try to do a
comparative, uh report from one year to the next, and...I'm not sure, Dale said you had
some questions about format or...information?
Helling/ Not actually format. I think there was just an indication that (mumbled) general
questions about, explanation about, uh, some of the things (mumbled)
O'Malley/ I can go through item by item if you'd like or the overview.
Hayek/ Why don't you start with the overview and if we need to drill down we will.
O'Malley/ Okay. What's, uh, Leigh and I try to do when we're working through this is, there's a
lot of obviously different transactions that come in through the year that, the first six
months, and we try to raise the bar. What's really changing, and we notice interest
income, even from the original budget, had dropped again, so we wanted to put that on,
uh, as a note, and then we also wanted to note that we've had some, uh, local option sales
taxes passed, prior to the budget adoption, so we hadn't included the revenue side of that
and the expenditure side of that, uh, utility franchise tax was adopted subsequent to the
fiscal year, and at that time we thought, I thought that we were going to receive revenue
within the fiscal year, uh, later on I found out we weren't going to get it until, uh,
actually, uh, 2011, but at this point in time in December is when the assumption that we
would get the 2% that was adopted in December. Like I said, this is a fluid budget so
some decisions get reversed. Uh, Capital Project funding, uh, we had a change here
because received some I-Job money, so the, uh, revenue from the loan was reduced.
Instead of $2 million to $568,000. We received some FEMA funding and wanted to note
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that. And there also were some changes in the (can't hear) agreement that we learned
about in the first six months. So, um, from the original budget, we were at 51 %, and then
after amendments which we had (garbled) process in...November I believe or maybe it
was October, it was actually 43% of the budget. Now, budget is critical really for the
state as a tool. Because...and some certain departments it's critical, but the state is the
real critical one. We're not allowed to go over our program authority without, uh, being
fined. So, I... we try to more or less keep the budget, keep ahead of the budget and... and
keep a little bit higher, uh, expenditures and lower revenues so that we take a
conservative approach. Uh, bottom of the page just shows you revenue comparison.
Obviously other city taxes is where we have the, uh, local option sales tax that was
passed, and the, uh, franchise fees. Other than that they're pretty routine. I did want to
comment that, I look at licenses and permits critically because this is a bellwether for
property valuations, and our licenses are down, or construction permits are down, and
also our, um, Housing Inspection Services also, besides the...the certificate of occupancy
permits, they also do plan check fees, where they review commercial and building
designs, and we (garbled) that's also down to about 12%. So, that's going to, to me, is
going to relate further on to lower property values. So, I'm trying to gird myself for
tighter times. Of course, (mumbled) money and property is the interest income story,
which we all know, especially anybody that has a CD coming due; uh, inner-
governmental, we hadn't received much of our FEMA money at that point in time,
compared to the prior year. Prior year received some category 'B' which was the
emergency money for all our police, fire, and uh, public works, uh, sandbagging efforts.
The other FEMA money that we expect to receive is for the actual capital projects, like
the Animal Shelter, um, street repairs, and siphon repairs. Charges and fees in services
are up. I think most of that is, uh, some recreation fees, and also some housing inspection
fees that I think Council adopted the previous fiscal year, I think it was atwo-year fee
increase for inspections of rental property. Miscellaneous is, uh, I think we have a sale of
some properties that, uh, no, the sale of assets is the previous year...but, inner-fund
transfers, this is basically money that we decided to loan from the, uh, Landfill to the
General Fund to finance capital projects. So it's the Pribble property we bought and the,
uh, the road construction out there. So that's page 1. I think page 2 is a little bit more, is
text detailed what I said.
Wright/ Just curious if we received the University's 28E payment yet.
O'Malley/ Yes we did, I checked it...this morning as I was going through there. We received
95% of budget so...and our budget of course was made 18 months earlier, so, uh, we, I
think at that time we were expecting the fire station, excuse me, the fire station to be
included, fire station 4 to be included in our budget, and it did not get included at that
time. So we were always building on actual, not budget, so...
Hayek/ Um, I try to sort of laser my way through all this and come to the bottom line in a way
that makes sense to anon-financial kind of person, which I am. Um, is it a fair way to
read this, at least in terms of just general revenue to expenditures within the General Fund
to look at those, uh, post-amendment...net numbers and the way I do that is, uh, to...it
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looks like General Fund revenue year to date is 43% of budget, and expenditures are 39%
of budget?
O'Malley/ Yes, that's correct, of the amended budget.
Hayek/ Is that an apples to apples comparison?
O'Malley/ Uh, I would go by original budget to tell you the truth because the expenditures are
still the expenditures. It's just the budget's changed, and the budget should have been
balanced, the original budget, should have been pretty close to being balanced, and so if
you have, uh, 45% of original expenditures and I believe 43%, no 51% of revenue, uh,
shows that we actually received more revenue in the first six months than we spent in the
first six months. You're doing the same, you're doing the right concept, but I would use
original budget because to me it's a truer picture of our guess...our guesstimates than it
was (mumbled) after the fact. Okay, I know I'm going to spend this money. I gotta
amend for it so, uh, that's just an inflated budget, whereas 18 months earlier I thought I
was going to get this, and I actually got this. So, better...better (both talking)
Hayek/ So slightly better than budgeted.
O'Malley/ Right. And it's basically because of the flood, most of it was flood related. (several
talking) That's essentially...our operating budget has really been driven by flood related
activities, so...either the local option sales tax or, um, FEMA or, uh, well what's not in
this report is all the activity that's coming through the, um, citizen, uh, purchase of homes
for demolition. That didn't get into this...at the time we weren't sure how it was going to
come about, and we didn't know how to analyze it. We're getting a better idea now that
we're buying all these homes, we're getting a better idea of what kind of funding we're
getting, or supposed to get. I'm looking at it from a cash basis all the time, and right now
the State owes me $3 million. (laughter)
Mims/ Is there anything in here that...that you would, you know, point out to us that, you know,
you're concerned about, that we, I mean, I know the low interest rates obviously and
that's ongoing. Is there anything else that...that you were really concerned about that we
should be aware of, or things that we might need to be looking at?
O'Malley/ Actually the only thing that I'm concerned about is not really in here is how we're
going to pay for the...the Prybil property. You haven't, uh, previous city manager did not
want to put a loan schedule together and I'm concerned that that gets...falls through the
cracks and I don't account for it properly. But, as far as this budget's concerned, this is
pretty much business as...as usual, except for the flood related stuff.
Bailey/ I have two items of just curiosity more than anything because they're not probably high
dollar items. The hotel/motel tax, have you guys...it's down 38%. I...I'm assuming that
that has to do something with the Sheraton. Have you...talked about that at CVB or...is
that a trend?
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Hayek/ Well, yeah, you know... in the area, yes, I believe so, and they're nervous because it
affects the budget.
Bailey/ Yeah. Well I'm hopeful that now that the renovation at the Sheraton is done that...that
might actually be...
Dickens/ ...my dad has (mumbled) you know, they buy shares and he said their hotels (garbled)
they have one in Waterloo, one in Mt. Vernon, North Liberty, some of these places like
that, they're all down. Uh, and that's kind of spread out throughout the state, not all just
in the flood area, but overall they're down... significantly.
Hayek/ I don't know if the Sheraton is though (both talking)
Bailey/ ...I know, of course we don't know the details. I'm...I'm making an assumption
that...that we also, that also had an impact in addition to the economy.
Hayek/ Oh.
Champion/ I think, yeah, I think it's mainly economy. That may have something to do with it,
because I mean hotel rooms now in cities like New York and Chicago are cheap!
Bailey/ Oh you can, yeah...it's unreal some of the rates you can get around the state. It's
amazing!
Champion/ I'm talking about Chicago.
Dickens/ What was the housing thing that came out today, from February, that uh, actual housing
starts or whatever was up 8% after it was adjusted.
O'Malley/ Oh, that? I think...I heard that on the news also, uh, that was I think driven by the
home buyer credits, that, uh, that's an encouraging sign. Especially the Midwest, I think,
was up 22% (mumbled) national was up 8%.
Dickens/ Because they were worried about the east coast, with the storms out there (mumbled)
Bailey/ And I just had another, just a point of curiosity, is the water revenue, the metered sales
are down 3.3%? I mean, what would, is that...I don't know why I...that jumped out at
me, but it was curious to me.
O'Malley/ Normally...it'll go down for two reasons, mostly if you have a wet year. Not too
many people are washing their cars with it raining all the time and we had a very wet fall,
if you remember (mumbled)
Bailey/ Oh, okay.
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O'Malley/ ...and uh, just...people, because of the economy, are tightening their belt and they're
looking at ways to cut and so they're not...
Bailey/ They're having dirty cars.
O'Malley/ They're not washing as much or...wasting water.
Bailey/ Huh! Interesting! (several talking)
Fosse/ That's also a national trend. I was recently reading about it. It's hitting some communities
that have wet industries particularly hard. It's those industries scale back or close, and in
some cases they end up raising the water rates so that they can keep...keep them in
production.
Bailey/ Oh! Well that's why (mumbled)
O'Malley/ Regenia, your point earlier about the, uh, hotel/motel does impact the, uh, Convention
Bureau (both talking). They were impacted and also our Police and Fire (several talking)
Bailey/ Parks and Rec, yeah, I mean, it does impact our budget. I was just wondering if we can
track it back to...more than the economy, but perhaps....
Hayek/ So, uh, this road use tax fund, we're just running out of money here in our reserves.
What do you project?
Fosse/ Well, we got some bad news last week, uh, was it 93,000? (several talking) the
projections for next year's road use tax income are down $93,000 from what we based
our budget on. It's going to make it even more difficult for us.
Hayek/ At some point we dip into the negative, and use a lot more GO bonding to (several
talking) trying to give you a softball segue there!
Wright/ Kind of segue!
Fosse/ One good thing, one silver lining there is we have about a thousand tons of salt that we'll
carry into next year, barring any remaining blizzards. (several talking)
Bailey/ We don't use salt on hail storms, do we?
Dickens/ I took the blade off the tractor this (mumbled)
Fosse/ That's got about $60,000 in value there.
Hayek/ Well, I, uh...
Bailey/ Street value? Can we sell it...no! (laughter)
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Hayek/ Geez! Well, I think it's important for us to look at this, this kind of thing, uh,
is...imposes some, you know, conversational discipline, when we have to look at this and
discuss these numbers, and it gives us an opportunity to, uh, see how we're doing year to
date. Um, so...
Wright/ It's good stuff to have. I enjoy reading through it.
Bailey/ Oh I do too! I mean, and then (several talking and laughing)
Wright/ What? It's interesting!
Champion/ It is interesting. (several talking and laughing) I think you (both talking)
Bailey/ ...I wish it were more entertaining in the sort of interest revenue (mumbled) yeah!
Helling/ We are a little bit...just a smidge closer to the end of the year than we are to the middle
of the year. It's already into April, but...um, this is the kind of thing, as soon as we start
getting our numbers for...after June 30th for the whole fiscal year, that's when we start to
sit down and look at sort of strategize for the upcoming budget. So that will start as early
as late-summer for, uh, before we ever go back to the departments, with some assessment
of those trends, and if that's something that's going to be of concern, and the next fiscal
year (mumbled) projections look like.
Hayek/ Okay.
Helling/ So, as Kevin said, you know, we could be looking at tightening up a little bit next year.
Hayek/ Okay. Um, if there isn't anything else why don't we go back to the bullet point that
preceded that on debt service levy policy.
Debt Service Lew (IPS of 4/1):
O'Malley/ Uh, on the debt service levy policy...this Council and the Council before it struggled
with the 25% (mumbled) limitation that we have, uh...it's served us well for many years.
I...I like the idea of using the limit...limitation, that limitation, versus the State limitation
cause it also focuses our concentration on the total tax levy. Now, other cities sometimes
just focus on the tax levy and ignore the debt consequences, um, whereas I think this is a
good concept myself. So when we talked about making recommendations, Ithought just
to get the discussion going, I thought well, I'd rather have that go to 30% then us become
more liberal and go to a 70% of the 5% state limitation. Now I hope you all read the
memo and understood it. I should probably back up and say do you understand the 5%
limitation and different cities?
Hayek/ One question I had was how does 25% of our tax levy stack up to x% of the state limit?
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O'Malley/ Well, we're at about 39% of the...of the 5% levy right now.
Hayek/ Okay. And going to 30 would be what?
O'Malley/ Probably about 46%, 47%.
Bailey/ So we would be at 46 of statutory.
Champion/ We would still be well within limits.
Bailey/ Yeah, well, within legal limits (several responding)
Wright/ ...quite conservative.
O'Malley/ Right.
Champion/ I just want to... speak up, and I'm not going to nag people about it, but I'm not willing
to go above the limit we have now. I think our property taxes are exorbitant. They're
going to get worse, and um, I think this is one way we can assure some stability of our
property tax, and I don't think everything we build has to be built right now. So I...I'm
not in favor of it. I'm not going to...I'm not going to support any increase beyond the
25% of the tax levy we have now.
Bailey/ The problem is with road use tax, I think that brings some things into play, if we're going
to have to finance more and more of that locally, and I do want to have that flexibility,
cause I think that that's also a... a huge public expectation of maintenance of our roads.
Hayek/ How long have we been at 25%?
O'Malley/ Before I came 25 years ago. At that time we also had a machinery and equipment tax,
which was, uh, a variable tax and we also had a, uh, personal property replacement tax.
So we had two more levies to uh (garbled) 25% on.
Wilburn/ (several talking) millions of dollars were those two?
O'Malley/ Oh, the machinery and equipment was, uh, quite a large amount of money and we
were getting about $600,000 a year when, uh, Governor Brandstat decided to phase it out.
Took three years to phase it out.
Wilburn/ Right, yeah.
Champion/ But we've added levies since then too.
O'Malley/ Uh, the only one we (both talking) the emergency levy.
Champion/ We added the tort levy since I've been on the Council.
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O'Malley/ It was...it's been around, it's been up and down, but it's...we started using the tort levy
back, at least I remember using it in 1986 I think when (several talking) insurance crisis.
(several talking) We've raised it significantly during hard markets, hard insurance
markets, cause one year we had it go bare with insurance because we couldn't afford the
insurance.
Mims/ Yeah, I mean, I don't like the idea of increasing it, but I'll, I mean, I will support
increasing it, and I think the reason is, you know, as Kevin said there's a couple levies
that used to be in there that made up that 100% so the 25% was part of a bigger number
than it is now. And so, you're really looking at fewer levies and so to say this is, you
know, a bigger percent of that smaller piece, I do think though and 1 agree with Connie, I
think people are very concerned about their taxes and tax rates, and I think as a Council
we have to look very, very cautiously about what we spend and what we built and how
quickly we build, and we're not always going to be able to build things as fast as people
would like them, but at the same time, I think we need the flexibility to...you know, so
we're not penny-wise, pound-foolish in terms of putting things off and then end up
costing us a whole lot more because we didn't have the ability to do things that really
needed to be done now.
Bailey/ Well, we're increasing our ability, not necessarily increasing it. I mean, that still comes
down to budget decisions. (several talking)
Dickens/ Based on our dollars right now, what is each percent that we go up from say 25 to 28 or
27 or 26.
O'Malley/ Well, if you went to 30% of it, it would be like 90-cents more on the tax levy. We're
paying...um, levying $17.76 now, and if we went up 5% more it'd be about 90-cents.
There's only two levies that...that are variable, and that's the employee benefit levy and
the tort levy. All the others are fixed, the 8-10 and the...and the Library levy 27-cents
are fixed operating levies. Um...Transit levy can go down. It's...I've seen it...I think it
would...that one, Connie, has doubled since I've been here. (both talking) Used to be
like 40-cents, 45-cents and uh, there's been some discussion amongst Finance staff
about... since Court Street Transportation Center's making money, we could lower the,
uh, the Transit levy.
Champion/ Well, I've thought about that. I wanted to see how that did, because that was one of
the things we talked about was, if...the Transportation Center does well, then we could
maybe lower that Transit levy.
O'Malley/ Then that would exacerbate the 25% (both talking) That's why amongst Finance we
say no! (laughter) ...can't do our capital programs, so...
Wright/ And I think with what we're looking to lose with the road use tax fund...and we're
bleeding by a lot of small cuts. And this is going to at least allow the ability, if not the
fact, to take that levy up.
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Champion/ Well, I understand that. I don't think we're bleeding, um, and...I, my only concern is
the property tax. I think it's really, really high, and it's going to get worse. And, it's not
going to be out of our control. The County's going to increase, uh, School District's
going to increase, um, you know, people...I think property tax is kind of a major issue
and a lot of people find it a hard thing to replace. I mean, to pay! It's gone up so much in
the past ten years, and if you've lived in your house for 20 years, it's probably tripled or
quadrupled. And...
Dickens/ That's what you hear the most of people that move out of Iowa City proper into the
County is because of the high taxes. It's...a concern I hear the most from people.
Champion/ I think...and I think it's a valid concern. I look at my own property taxes and I'm not
complaining because I can afford to pay 'em, but I see how people get in trouble when
they get older and are on fixed incomes, because my property taxes are a lot and when I
bought my house my property taxes were $700 a year, and now they're well over $5,000.
Almost $6,000 something, so I mean I think this concerns me as people stay in their
houses...and I think our property taxes are...really, really high. They've got to be some
of the highest in the state. I'm not sure, I could be totally wrong about that, but they're
certainly high. Higher than Coralville, higher than the County, higher than University
Heights, and...I think if people are going to build a nice house, they might consider
building it out of Iowa City because of that.
Wright/ Well, I think you're right in...our taxes are high, but they're not...they're not the highest
in the state, and they're not much above Coralville anymore. Coralville has really gone
up quite a bit. I'm just...not a justification, but I'm just saying if you look at some of the
other cities in the state, and I've done a little poking around, we're not that far out of line
of a number of communities.
Wilburn/ (several talking) the 1 %, uh, franchise fee too.
Hayek/ It's the value of the property that distinguishes us.
Wright/ Yes!
Bailey/ Well, and that links back to the, well, and our ability to do some of these projects and the
quality of life that we build here, and, I mean, it's...it's a loop and it can be a challenge
sometimes, but I have...I have a lot of concern about the loss of the road use tax and
what, how are we going to...handle that.
Champion/ We've been losing it; it's nothing new. We've managed it.
Hayek/ Yes but in a downward trend, I mean, we're projected to run out of...to get into the red,
uh, later this year, as I understand it, with our road use dollars.
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Bailey/ And that is a fundamental of government, I mean, infrastructure, Imean, you can't, I
mean, the whole idea of...of putting things off and then the large bill that comes when
you put ongoing maintenance off.
Champion/ Well, I'm not talking about maintenance. I'm talking about new capital projects.
Helling/ (mumbled) talking about in terms of looking at some short-term things that this would
help with, I think in the long-term too, you know, we have an overall policy, not just the
City of Iowa City but statewide, of trying to diversify revenues. Keep in mind this cap is
at 25% of your levy, so as we're successful at doing that, and our revenue (mumbled) this
is over the long-term, begins to come from other sources besides our property tax levy,
you're going to need to look at this realistically again, because it becomes an artificially,
uh, low cap, uh, as...as revenue sources diversify. So I think it's something that, this isn't
just aone-time thing, we'll say, okay, it'll be 30% for the next 25 years because if we are
successful in diversifying our revenues, then it's going to have to be revisited again and
we may have to look more at our, you know, a combination of this with our...with our
state maximum. That sort of thing so...it's probably something that will be discussed
more often than it has been in the past, I would suspect.
Mims/ And I think as you're saying, Connie, looking at...at the overall, uh, property tax, not, I
mean, that's where I'm at. I think we've got to look at that overall tax burden, not just
property tax, but you know as we passed over things like the local option sales tax and
franchise fee and other things, you know, what's the overall tax burden on our population
and I do think though, like I say, the reduction in the number of levies, I think to jump
just to 30 we can do that, and yet still keep on top of the total tax burden. But we have to
make some hard decisions as a Council. (mumbled)
Bailey/ Well, I guess I come at it from a different point of view. I think that we're providing
good service for the money, and um, I know it's a struggle for many people. I would say
our household struggles with the property taxes as well, especially in the past couple of
years, but I mean that's...that's the balancing act, is...we keep a very livable, desirable
city, and that does take capital funding as well as other funding -our levies. So...
Dickens/ Can this be graduated in...somehow, rather than just going from 25 to 30 right away,
just...or is it more important to go at once? (several talking)
Bailey/ We could choose to...
Dickens/ But if it's there, you tend to...
Champion/ Use it!
Dickens/ ...move toward that.
Wright/ That's not our history, if you look back at some of the...levies in the past, we didn't
always hit the 25 even.
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Bailey/ Well, I mean, even the discussion this year about capital projects, I mean (mumbled)
Helling/ It wouldn't be our intent to go into the next budget, looking at our capital budget, based
on 30%. Uh, we...we look at, you know, much more closely than that, but we certainly
the 30% would be the cap. I would assume that 30% would remain (mumbled) coming
few years.
Bailey/ I wouldn't even, I mean, I would like to try to not get close to it.
Mims/ Oh, I'd like to stay at the 25 if we can. Twenty-five, 26... (several talking)
Bailey/ ...I would like to be in compliance with our policies too. Yeah.
Helling/ (several talking) we can tell you when you get your...when you get your capital budget,
uh, you know, what the implication would be by raising it by, you know, a million or
something to do this or that project, and what effect that would have on the...on the cap.
Hayek/ What's the biggest contributor to the increase in GO bonding...that we see lately? Is it
road use? Road issues?
O'Malley/ It's mostly road issues.
Hayek/ And see, Connie, that's where I come down on this. I see a steady decline in, uh, support
from the State for road projects, uh, which is directly causing us to increase our
borrowing to pay for some of the things that just a few years ago we didn't need to
borrow to pay for, um, and then when I look at our debt policy relative to the other nine
largest cities in Iowa, um, I see that going to 30% still makes us far and away the most
conservative municipality of the ten largest in Iowa, as it relates to this issue. So I'm not
sure...I don't feel like we have much of a choice, and this proposal still keeps us in the
strictest, at the strictest end of the spectrum, relative to everybody else. Know what I
mean?
Champion/ I didn't think I was going to win this battle. I'm just (laughter)
Bailey/ You can argue about doing capital projects and (both talking)
Champion/ I will! I mean, you don't win them all!
Helling/ (both talking) this, we don't believe this will have any adverse effect on our triple-A
bond rating.
Champion/ He pointed that out in the memo.
Mims/ Very important!
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Process for Interview of Search Firms (IP7 of 4/1):
Hayek/ Yeah, we've got to keep that. Okay, do you have your direction? (several talking)
Thank you. Next item is process for interview of search firms. Friday's the day. And,
we need to just touch upon how we want to approach the interviews themselves, and then
how we want to, and when we want to, uh, determine the outcome and... and how we
want to proceed from there. Um, we can, you know, the setting will be us in that room,
uh, with...with staff...
Karr/ Mr. Mayor, you'll be out here.
Hayek/ Oh! It'll be, oh that's right, it's an open meeting, yeah, what am I talking about! So
anyway up here, yeah, with press, and uh, you get that? Oh! (several talking) Please.
(several talking and laughing) But, uh, but we, you know, we'll have a 15-minute
presentation from each of them and then an opportunity for us to ask questions, and we
need to decide do we want to go in with a set of initial questions that are standard for
everybody, and you know, if so, how do we want to ask those questions, how do we want
to handle follow ups, that kind of thing.
Champion/ Um...they're going to do a 15-minute presentation, right? Why don't we just open it
up for questions?
Mims/ I think we might have certain ones, and I mean, I haven't made a list of all but...I guess
my feeling when you're interviewing a group like that, it's nice to have some consistent
questions that you make sure get asked of each applicant, and then maybe different
follow up questions, depending upon their answers.
Bailey/ We had set questions the last time, did we?
Champion/ Uh-huh.
Karr/ No.
Wilburn/ What's that?
Bailey/ Not for the search firms?
Champion/ No, we didn't have any set questions.
Bailey/ Oh, I think we need set questions this time! (laughter and several talking) Just a
thought!
Wright/ What was the process last time?
Wilburn/ Well, in a certain sense too, I mean (both talking) they are responding to questions
we've posed through the Request for Proposals and so, um, whether a standard or...or
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set-specific, I think, um, I'm thinking the balance would be towards the specific to your
proposals. You know, you said this in response to what we were asking, and so, uh,
clarifying...details on...on that. I...I don't have a problem with it, but the, you know, the
standard questions, but I...I would hate to see us lay out the standard questions and not
allow ourselves to (several talking)
Mims/ I agree, I mean, I think we want (several talking) yeah, small handful of common
questions, I would agree (several talking) plenty of time for follow up.
Dickens/ Cause sometimes you get, when you get the original search thing, material, and then
when they come and speak to you personally, sometimes you get a little different story,
from what I...just in the business I'm in, so I...it's always good to have a standard set, but
when we do our merchandise review with a lot of companies, we'll speak to 'em and then
when they come it's a little different.
Wilburn/ Lot of (laughter) or...
Dickens/ Well, vendors! But, uh, it's...sometimes you do need to have just a little bit of leeway
there because they...they might change their ideas a little bit (mumbled)
Bailey/ Well, and set questions can help us be all on the same page, and I think that can be
helpful in discussing...in later discussions. But I wouldn't want it to tilt towards the set.
I would want it to tilt towards the follow up.
Hayek/ Well if they use their full 15-minutes, we have 30 minutes for Q&A. So...I'm...I'm fine
with...with several set questions, if that's what we want, and then...and then just let it go.
Okay? Now...
Karr/ Are you going to develop the set questions? (laughter)
Hayek/ Next question (laughter) I mean, I'm happy to do so. We can do so now. We can, you
can send me recommended set questions, I mean, I have no pride of authorship on this.
Dickens/ I don't know that we're going to have a lot of time between now and then, uh... should
we do...
Mims/ I would suggest we assign it to Matt (laughter) and then if anybody...if anybody has any
specific questions or ideas, to get those to him right away, to try to incorporate...I...I just
think trying to do a set of questions by committee is going to take forever and not
necessarily be...
Bailey/ We're talking three, five...we're talking (several talking)
Hayek/ All right, I will come up with a handful and I'll work with staff on that, just some meat
and potato, you know, general things, um... and... and (mumbled)
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Bailey/ (mumbled) they will tell us, but we want to also underscore that.
Champion/ They have to be here too. So...
Dilkes/ I think one of the things you need to think about in having a set list... set of questions is
unlike an interviewee who comes in and you're going through those questions, these
people are doing a presentation so you may be, if you have a set list of questions,
covering the same things they've just...
Bailey/ Well they may...and I think that the questions don't necessarily have to be asked, if the
questions are covered, if the answer has been covered. That's kind of discretionary. I
mean, we could say, does everybody feel like these questions have been answered, and
then move on to follow up questions. Could...couldn't we?
Mims/ I would think so, if... if we feel (both talking)
Bailey/ I mean, we don't...have to follow (several talking)
Hayek/ If the question is, you know, what about your, uh, municipal, executive management
experience would, uh, make you a good candidate for Iowa City, and they spent three
minutes in the presentation talking about that very aspect, uh...
Bailey/ You can just do a check-in with everybody to feel like the...the set questions are
covered, and then jump, we could just jump right into follow up. I think it's...
Hayek/ Okay.
Wright/ I suspect each presentation is going to raise different presen...different questions among
us, and yeah, some of them... some of the standard questions will likely be answered.
We've found that when we were interviewing candidates.
Hayek/ Yeah, I suspect that a lot of these meat and potato basics, for lack of a better term, will be
addressed pretty quickly on, and probably during the presentation, and a lot of this is
going to be sort of us gauging the fit, um...
Champion/ And, um, what time we starting at, 9:00?
Karr/ 8:00.
Bailey/ 8:00.
Champion/ Oh, 8:00.
Mims/ But then I think we all obviously all need to come having reviewed those packets,
prepared with some questions so (several talking) I mean, you know, we don't want them
to do a 15-minute presentation and we sit there and twiddle our thumbs or...
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Hayek/ Yeah, definitely read all four, uh, applications. Um, all right, so I'll come up with...with
a handful of questions. I'll probably ask, you know, one person to be the consistent
questioner, unless everyone wants the questions coming from me, which I don't think is a
good idea. I think they should come from the group.
Champion/ We don't care.
Wright/ I don't think it matters that much, but...
Hayek/ Okay.
Champion/ And I think we should just stick around and select (several talking) right then and
there! Don't try to get another meeting (several talking)
Wright/ Have the deed done!
Mims/ Well, while it's all fresh in our mind too.
Bailey/ (mumbled)
Mims/ I agree, timing and scheduling (mumbled)
Hayek/ Okay.
Karr/ Do we want to not plan on lunch then, and take the time and you'll wrap it up, or did you
want lunch? You're scheduled 8:00 to...right now you're scheduled 8:00 to noon.
Bailey/ We could make a really bad decision on an empty stomach -- I can make really bad
(several talking)
Champion/ I think we have to have lunch... if we're here at 8:00, unless we're going to have brie
cheese and wine. (laughter)
Wright/ And that always makes for more interesting decisions!
Hayek/ What if we had a working lunch (several talking)
Bailey/ No, not a lunch break for sure!
Hayek/ ...ate and talked. (several talking)
Bailey/ Something that's, yeah.
Hayek/ And, Marian, I'll follow up with you on that.
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Bailey/ So the plated dinner, forget about it! (several talking) No, we need to make a decision!
(laughter)
Hayek/ Okay. Um, and then, uh, in terms of negotiating a contract with the search firm, once we
select one, what is the Council's desire in terms of involvement?
Champion/ I think we have a City Attorney to do that.
Hayek/ Well, we'll need...we'll need some Council involvement, uh, yeah, they will (both
talking) right.
Mims/ Yeah, I'd say the Mayor or designee and the City Attorney (several talking)
Wright/ I certainly don't think we want the whole Council trying to negotiate a contract! (several
commenting)
Hayek/ No, the proposal would be, you know, Mayor, or the Mayor plus one or two people...
Bailey/ The Mayor (mumbled)
Hayek/ Yeah, I'd take...
Wright/ I think the Mayor and one or two people's a good idea.
Hayek/ Yeah.
Bailey/ Fine. Mayor and one or two people.
Champion/ Well, I'll be glad, if you're going to do it right then. Talk about it.
Hayek/ Uh, I don't know that we'd do it (laughter and several talking)
Dilkes/ I can't hear what you all are saying down there.
Bailey/ She said if we do it that afternoon she'd be fine to be part of the negotiating team
(laughter)
Mims/ They might be on a plane home before we're ready to start negotiating a contract with
them, I mean...
Dilkes/ I don't anticipate that this is going to be a complicated contract, so it seems to me that I'
can work with the Mayor, or I can work with, if you all don't want more people involved,
then...(several talking). You're going to approve it, then we're going to put it (several
talking) then we're going to put it on your agenda for approval, so...
Hayek/ You volunteered, you volunteered, there! Me plus two (several talking)
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Dickens/ ...downtown fairly close to you, so...yell, I'll run across the street quick!
Champion/ Yeah, I can walk around the corner.
Hayek/ Okay. All right, remember, 8:00 A.M. and do your homework!
Dickens/ That's this Friday?
Champion/ Uh-huh!
Bailey/ It's tomorrow! (laughter and several talking)
Info Packet Discussion (3/25 and 4/1):
Hayek/ Okay. Let's move on, info packet discussion from March 25. That was this flimsy thing
we got, uh, last round (several talking). There's really little in it.
Mims/ We just have that proposed meeting date.
Hayek/ Right, uh, there's a memo from Marian on, uh, Wednesday, June 30 for a proposed joint
meeting date. June 30.
Mims/ That works for me.
Wright/ As long as United Airlines doesn't let me down, we'll be fine.
Bailey/ Good luck with that!
Wright/ I know!
Hayek/ Okay. Marian, I think that's okay. How 'bout the info packet from April I? (several
talking and laughing)
Champion/ I just want to bring up something about the meeting schedule. We have got to think
about when we're going to spend time...did we spend time with these research groups,
before they brought us candidates?
Mims/ Yeah, we need to.
Champion/ Yeah! And...
Mims/ Let them know what we're looking for.
Karr/ I suggest you talk to them about their time schedule on Friday. (several talking) You
shouldn't decide yours right now. I think...
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Champion/. Oh, I'm just telling them we need to be thinking about that, because we were all so
tied up all the time.
Karr/ Well, I think those are the type of things you should talk to them about, because each of
them had their time table in there. You should talk to them about it, because it is going to
be a different procedure, as well this time, because of the involvement you had requested
from boards and commissions and mayors, so...we do need to get to that timeline sooner
than later, but I think that's a subject for discussion Friday.
Hayek/ Point well taken.
Dilkes/ One thing you all might want to do is review that, um...the little brochure that went out
from the last consultant and see...you know, what you think of that. Yeah, what you
think of that and whether you think there's going to be a lot of work that needs to be
done, I mean, it's a pretty basic profile. Because that's what the last consultant did a lot
of, is meeting with people to develop that profile, community profile.
Bailey/ Can we have that in the info packet on Thursday? (several talking)
Champion/ Yeah, I don't have one.
Karr/ The community profile that was already sent out to this...
Bailey/ That we've already developed.
Karr/ Right.
Bailey/ Yeah. That we sent out to this...(mumbled)
Champion/ Oh, right, okay. Fine.
Karr/ You made very minor changes in it from the last time to this time.
Champion/ Right, exactly. (several commenting)
Helling/ I had one quick question on the, uh, the work session pending list, the Airport
Commission would prefer, rather than, uh, joint meeting, uh, it was their preference to
just make a presentation at your formal meeting on the 27th, a short presentation on the
strategic plan, and that seems to work, if everybody's comfortable with it. We don't have
to put it on a work session (several talking). If after the presentation you want to talk
about it, then we can schedule something.
Champion/ That's fine!
Hayek/ Okay.
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Karr/ Dale, which one was that? I'm sorry.
Helling/ The Airport Commission.
Mims/ Um, back up to...back up to where...(laughter)...just asecond! Um...well, never mind,
keep going! (laughter)
Hayek/ If you think of it, we can come back.
Mims/ No, I know what it is. I know what it is; I'll come back to it when that (several talking)
Hayek/ Speaking of which... Council time.
Council Time:
Bailey/ I have a couple things. Um, in JCCOG the other day, Janelle brought up the Aviation
Trust Fund being zeroed out, and the potential that would have, potential impact that
would have on our Airport. It was a question about the legislative session, and I just
wondered if you knew anything about that. She asked John Yapp to look into it, but I
thought that that might be something that we would want to be aware of, um, before the
next JCCOG meeting. Um, cause it has a huge impact on...
Helling/ I'll follow up with John.
Bailey/ Okay. And then, um, Christina mentioned that Dubuque initiative with banks for, um,
for loans and I was wondering if others might be interested in pursuing that, um, for
historic preservation projects, just getting some more information, not necessarily saying
yes or no but.. .
Wright/ I'd really like to (several talking)
Champion/ We do have loans available to people under certain income levels. Low interest
loans.
Bailey/ It used to be the TARP program, but...GRIP, now it's GRIP, but...
Dickens/ This is just for a designated area.
Bailey/ This would be for historic. So, if...I would like to have some more information and...
Champion/ Oh, absolutely!
Helling/ Let's get a (several talking)
Wright/ ...awful lot with historic preservation that we haven't done...
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April 5, 2010 City Council Regular Work Session Page 47
Bailey/ ...yeah, and we could learn a lot from them, I mean...we could learn a lot.
Hayek/ Having missed the urban renewal, uh, wave of the 60s and 70s, they had more to work
with! (laughter) They didn't have any money to tear down things!
Bailey/ And now they have all those old warehouses that they're converting!
Hayek/ Other Council items?
Mims/ Well, I'll bring this up under Council time. Um, the 21-ordinance, and maybe I should
have done this under the other, but um, I'm not changing my vote (mumbled)
Bailey/ And now that the press is gone (laughter)
Mims/ I don't care, um, I just...I think we have some issues that we need to talk about, assuming
we get this passed tomorrow night on the third reading. It's going to go into effect I'm
assuming on June 1st, if we don't change that. I think between now and June, or certainly
between now and the time the students come back in the fall, there's some things that we
need to discuss and look at. Um, I... and it sounded like the Council had interest the other
night in... in certainly trying to preserve our music, our live music, venues. I don't know
if there's any kinds of exceptions that we can reasonably draft and...and what those might
look like, but I think it behooves us to at least talk about it and see, and...and have
Council, have legal counsel look at what kinds of exceptions we might be able to look at,
whether they're one-time, you know, certain number of times a year they could get an
exception and still have underage people in there and still be serving and, with live
shows. I'm not suggesting anything in particular at this point. I'm suggesting we...we try
and do some brainstorming and...and talk about it so...
Dickens/ (mumbled)
Mims/ Well, split venue, if they've got physical, if they can physically separate people, and this
section of the facility is 21 and over and this side, where no alcohol would be served
could have underage. I mean, I think it behooves us to look at some things like that
and...and maybe even if the bar owners want to actually come down and sit down with us
and give us some suggestions of things they would like us to try. You know, under that,
I'm willing to look at that. I'm not willing to change my vote on the 21, but I'm willing to
look at how we can preserve the music and those venues that I think are important in that
regard. Another thing I'm concerned about that has just come to my attention the past
few days, and I don't know if this is happening now, but at least historically it appears
that a number of the bars, um, have been very, um, how should I say it? They have been
looking at I.D.'s that show individuals to be under 21, and they are banding them as 21
year olds. And so I'd like an understanding of what options we have as a city to put any
kind of enforcement and penalty upon the bars themselves, if they are in violation in
terms of letting people in under age once this ordinance goes into effect.
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Champion/ And then if they band them 21, then they can say they must have had a fake I.D.,
which kids are very quick at disposing of when they're approached by a police officer.
I...I, that does happen, by the way!
Mims/ It came to me from two very, very reliable sources, that this was a very common practice,
that they were in there all the time and they had never used a fake I.D., and they were
banded 21.
Hayek/ Well, one appears to be an enforcement issue. Another one is a cultural or whatever
issue, um, it looks like Eleanor's...(laughter)
Dilkes/ You know what, I think you should have this discussion tomorrow night, um...
Bailey/ About setting some (both talking)
Dilkes/ I just think that we've already...we've talked about it once under agenda items and now
we're kind of circling around back to it and everybody's gone and..and I just think it's, we
should talk about it tomorrow night. Um, and I do...I do think enforce...the first thing
you're going to have to look at is how the police would deal with that from an
enforcement perspective.
Mims/ But I just want to throw that out, cause when we talk about meeting schedules and stuff,
those are some things that I'd like us to consider having some more discussion on. I'm
not trying to have the discussion tonight, but to (mumbled) bring it up tomorrow night.
Hayek/ Okay. Anything else on our Council time? Budget priorities? Budget is a priority
(several talking). Uh, summary of pending work session issues. Talked about that a little
bit. Anything else on that? Upcoming events? Have I got an opportunity for you!
Upcoming Community Events:
Bailey/ I'm taking it...I'm actually taking it. I'm up at that hour anyway.
Hayek/ Are you kidding me? That's fantastic!
Bailey/ That's when I get up so...
Wright/ What are you talking about?
Bailey/ There's a 4:30, 5:00, 5:30 interview opportunity, and when she said it was that early, I
said well that's not a problem.
Hayek/ She said it was 6:00 to me, so you can sleep in it sounds like.
Bailey/ No, I'm actually going to do the earlier one cause 6:00 is usually when I...
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April 5, 2010 City Council Regular Work Session Page 49
Hayek/ Okay, this is Brittney from KGAN?
Karr/ Yeah, could we have a full sentence so I can...(laughter and several talking)
Hayek/ KGAN wants to interview a Councilor at o'dark hundred, uh, tomorrow morning.
(several talking) And...
Bailey/ Here's the issue though. It's on 21, and I happen to be the one opponent, so if anybody
has concern about it, me being the one interviewed, but I figured 1 actually see o'dark
hundred pretty regularly, in fact...
Champion/ You can have it! (laughter)
Bailey/ Okay, remember I'll say...no!
Hayek/ I'm sure they would interview more than one person, if more than one person is
interested in being up at that hour. (several talking and laughing) Um...
Karr/ 6:00 A.M. tomorrow morning.
Bailey/ I'm going to try to hit the 5:00 one, but yeah, so I can be...but yeah!
Hayek/ The interview was going to be...
Bailey/ No, it's in here, it's here, but I'm working with a client, and like I said, I'm up at that hour.
It's not a problem!
Karr/ So, it's here.
Bailey/ Yeah, it's in Iowa City. Corner of Clinton and Iowa. I'm worried about the traffic, of
course!
Hayek/ Brittney somebody or other from Channel 2.
Dickens/ Then we have the St. Pat's thing, which I can take care of, because I go there. There's
the open house (several talking) in our packet, this next Tuesday, 9:30 in the morning till
7:00 at night so...I'll be glad to be our representative, unless somebody else would like to
go see it. It's very nice.
Bailey/ I saw it at the dedication.
Hayek/ I'm going to try to get out there (several talking).
Dickens/ I was there five or six hours over the weekend so...
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Apri15, 2010 City Council Regular Work Session Page 50
Hayek/ Okay, uh, any other...community events or invitations? Okay, discussion of meeting
schedules? Okay. If there's nothing else, for the good of the order, let's adjourn. I'll see
you tomorrow evening!
This represents only a reasonably accurate transcription of the Iowa City City Council regular
work session meeting of Apri15, 2010.